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    bobajobPBbobajobPB Posts: 1,042
    Richard T

    Sam

    Strange to think, but if Ed Balls was leader, Labour would waltz home with a majority of 30-50.
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    wills66wills66 Posts: 103
    Brom said:

    Only positive for May is it all happened under Cameron's watch. I don't think it will be helpful with regards solidifying the purple to blue switchers.

    If it all blows up, then I expect she'll blame it all on Osborne ;-)

    WillS
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    TudorRose said:

    Chris said:

    dr_spyn said:
    Blimey, I should think so!

    It will be a sad day for this country when a leading politician cannot spend his election expenses in any way he sees fit.
    I note that they could have waited until June 11th before making this decision.....
    If the CPS had reached the decision that they were going to charge him, shouldn't the voters be able to weigh that in their choice?

    The CPS were placed awfully for their decision-making in the timing of this election. I think they've handled that awful position very well.
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    dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    It's social media that will spread the story, the media will not risk having it thrown out because of prejudicial reporting.
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Anyway, there's apparently going to be a landslide in this* election:

    https://twitter.com/AntonLaGuardia/status/870576163432923136

    *"this election" not being the UK's.
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    PeterMannionPeterMannion Posts: 712
    wills66 said:

    Brom said:

    Only positive for May is it all happened under Cameron's watch. I don't think it will be helpful with regards solidifying the purple to blue switchers.

    If it all blows up, then I expect she'll blame it all on OsborneWillS
    Who is OsborneWillS?
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    Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256

    Mrs C, there can be weird things between genders in education. I remember being very surprised at university when a small group (me and about six others, they were all female) ended up having most of the group deferring to me. Given I'm quiet, it was perplexing, and the only difference was that I possessed manly stubble.

    Similarly, during a seminar we were split into small groups. I was with two girls (one a good friend, the other a stranger). They gassed a lot about the subject, but when it came time to talk about our collective view to the rest, they suddenly became mute and I had to do it.

    * * WARNING * * Generalisation follows * * WARNING * *

    Gender dynamics is a funny thing. All I can say is that generally speaking, women argue over who should take charge in a group by trying to get someone else to do it. Men argue over who should take charge in a group by putting a case why they themselves should do it. With those two dynamics in play you can see why a group of women with one bloke results in the behaviour you describe.

    On a slight tangent, we tend to be more unguarded in single sex groups. Get a bunch of men (or women) and listen to the conversation. Then add one member of the opposite sex and the conversation and body language changes.
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    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 31,023
    FF43 said:



    Nope because the only way that could happen is if the EEA treaty itself lapsed for all members. The UK is not a signatory via the EU but in its own right.

    For the same reason the separate Le Touquet treaty between France and the UK does not lapse at Brexit.

    Precisely, the EEA is a bilateral agreement between a consortium consisting of the EU and named member states and a set of named EFTA members. The respective obligations of the EU and the member states towards the consortium's side of the agreement is determined by the treaties between the EU and the member state. I'm not a lawyer, but it seems a massive stretch to assume the UK could participate in the EEA while not a member of the EU and without amending the EEA treaty.
    It has happened before. Sweden, Austria and Portugal all moved from EFTA to the EU and remained part of the EEA. There is absolutely no reason legally why the UK could not move the other way.
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    BromBrom Posts: 3,760

    Brom said:

    Only positive for May is it all happened under Cameron's watch. I don't think it will be helpful with regards solidifying the purple to blue switchers.

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2017/mar/16/pms-chief-of-staff-embroiled-in-south-thanet-election-spending-row
    Fairly tenuous. Let's be honest only 2% of the country know who Nick Timothy is anyway.
    Thanet is Cameron's mess and another one he won't be around to clear up.
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    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    wills66 said:

    Scott_P said:

    @rowenamason: Wow. Tory MP Craig Mackinlay, his agent and CCHQ official charged with election offences

    urgh, great timing.
    And now we have our Comey moment.
    Comparing the charging of a candidate and two officials with dramatic allegations levelled directly at the Democratic Presidential candidate is a bit of an over reaction.

    I'm sure it'll make headlines and seem like a major event (awaiting the twitter storm now) but it's hardly the "15 evil tory mps going to prison" event that the far lefties were loudly proclaiming, a few weeks ago, as the entire reason for May calling the election in the first place.

    WillS
    This is still the most likely reason for the Prime Minister to have called the election, unless she knew in advance how the CPS would proceed. Since she has yet to tell us precisely what is her plan for Brexit, it is hard to take seriously the notion she was desperate to get a mandate for it.
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    bobajobPBbobajobPB Posts: 1,042
    Max

    It was also compulsory in my school, even though I went to a secular state comp. I walked the exam, got a grade A, having done sod all work, one of only two As I got a GCSE. They say the mind of a confirmed godless atheist is pure.
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    EICIPMEICIPM Posts: 55
    SURPRISE!!!!!!!
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    DadgeDadge Posts: 2,038
    MaxPB said:

    ydoethur said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Surely young people are exposed to a far wider range of culture than ever before?

    They watch cartoons from Japan, TV shows from America, play video games against people from all around the world... They are far more likely to have been abroad, met someone from a different religion etc...

    And yet chatting with my son's 16 year old girlfriend the other day, a supposed high flyer at the top of their year, she has no idea where the Pacific Ocean is, further talking showed similar glaring holes in fairly basic factual knowledge. While they seems have have a lot of experience of a range of cultural matters in the way you describe, the number of hard facts in which they are in posession seems woeful.

    They might have met someone from a different religion, but they now learn almost nothing about different religions. In my day we did several years of RE, which was to all intents a course in comparitive theology, and explored in some depth the teachings of most of the world major religions, that appears to have all but disappeared because a white english woman teaching people about Islam or Buddism appears to be too controversial.
    Again, as somebody who has been head of RS I do not recognise this description of it. In both schools where I have taught it it has been compulsory to GCSE and covers at least five religions plus major ethical and theological issues.

    I can qualify that however by saying in the LEA school I worked in (and didn't teach it) although it had two specialist teachers who were very good takeup beyond year 9 was low. It's not considered 'fashionable' by the children. The problem may be less that it's badly taught than that they simply tune it out?
    My daughter is just sitting her GCSEs and RE was indeed compulsory.

    From what I understand the compulsories are

    Maths
    English (Only one unlike my day when it was Language and Lit)
    RE
    Foreign Language

    Plus 5 choices
    RE was compulsory at my school because it was CofE. Can't imagine why it would be otherwise, it's completely pointless. They put it on Friday afternoon which meant everyone bunked.
    The only compulsory GCSE subjects are maths, English and science. It's compulsory to study RE but not compulsory to take a GCSE in it. MFL (e.g. French) was compulsory for a while a few years ago, but is no longer. http://www.careerpilot.org.uk/info/your-choices-at-14/gcses-compulsory-and-optional/#link1
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,078
    bobajobPB said:

    Richard T

    Sam

    Strange to think, but if Ed Balls was leader, Labour would waltz home with a majority of 30-50.

    a) They’d still have lost much of Scotland and
    b) He wouldn’t have been on Strictly. Or be Chair of Norwich City.
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,805
    FF43 said:



    Nope because the only way that could happen is if the EEA treaty itself lapsed for all members. The UK is not a signatory via the EU but in its own right.

    For the same reason the separate Le Touquet treaty between France and the UK does not lapse at Brexit.

    Precisely, the EEA is a bilateral agreement between a consortium consisting of the EU and named member states and a set of named EFTA members. The respective obligations of the EU and the member states towards the consortium's side of the agreement is determined by the treaties between the EU and the member state. I'm not a lawyer, but it seems a massive stretch to assume the UK could participate in the EEA while not a member of the EU and without amending the EEA treaty.
    Thinking more on this, I suppose theoretically the UK could implement the EEA protocols and insist on Liechtenstein etc reciprocating, but it wouldn't be able to force the EU or any of its member states to reciprocate because the UK isn't "contracted to" the EU and members under the EEA.
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    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,904
    bobajobPB said:

    Richard T

    Sam

    Strange to think, but if Ed Balls was leader, Labour would waltz home with a majority of 30-50.

    Yeh because Lab voters love Tory lite Manifestos
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    MyBurningEarsMyBurningEars Posts: 3,651

    Brom said:

    What is apparent is that the relationship between Theresa May and Philip Hammond has broken down. He's been invisible in this election campaign.

    She could have done with his input, frankly.

    Does anyone know the reason why? I assume it's largely due to the NI u-turn, but given the healthy polling leads after the event I wonder if it's something more personal, such as a leak or briefing against TM.
    The Conservatives have an uncosted manifesto, have dropped the pledge not to raise taxes, and just a few weeks ago tried and failed to raise NI. I'd imagine CCHQ is anxious to avoid the Chancellor being asked what taxes will be raised and by how much.
    This is very plausible but the fact he would be quizzed very hard on his relationship with the PM (even if he gave a dead-bad answer, it would still be the headlines) is another reason. I think he was potentially a great asset on the campaign - he publicly projects quite a calming "steady at the helm" figure, rather like Darling did - but I don't think his appearances would now be able to drive the desired narrative. (I wonder if he'd been here, there and everywhere at the forefront of the campaign, whether the tax and PM/CoE relationship questions might have petered out after a while and he could have started fronting the issues as desired ... the fewer appearances he makes, the more they become a valuable and limited opportunities for journalists to ask uncomfortable questions.)
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,078
    Dadge said:

    MaxPB said:

    ydoethur said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Surely young people are exposed to a far wider range of culture than ever before?

    They watch cartoons from Japan, TV shows from America, play video games against people from all around the world... They are far more likely to have been abroad, met someone from a different religion etc...

    And yet chatting with my son's 16 year old girlfriend the other day, a supposed high flyer at the top of their year, she has no idea where the Pacific Ocean is, further talking showed similar glaring holes in fairly basic factual knowledge. While they seems have have a lot of experience of a range of cultural matters in the way you describe, the number of hard facts in which they are in posession seems woeful.

    They might have met someone from a different religion, but they now learn almost nothing about different religions. In my day we did several years of RE, which was to all intents a course in comparitive theology, and explored in some depth the teachings of most of the world major religions, that appears to have all but disappeared because a white english woman teaching people about Islam or Buddism appears to be too controversial.
    Again, as somebody who has been head of RS I do not recognise this description of it. In both schools where I have taught it it has been compulsory to GCSE and covers at least five religions plus major ethical and theological issues.

    I can qualify that however by saying in the LEA school I worked in (and didn't teach it) although it had two specialist teachers who were very good takeup beyond year 9 was low. It's not considered 'fashionable' by the children. The problem may be less that it's badly taught than that they simply tune it out?
    My daughter is just sitting her GCSEs and RE was indeed compulsory.

    From what I understand the compulsories are

    Maths
    English (Only one unlike my day when it was Language and Lit)
    RE
    Foreign Language

    Plus 5 choices
    RE was compulsory at my school because it was CofE. Can't imagine why it would be otherwise, it's completely pointless. They put it on Friday afternoon which meant everyone bunked.
    The only compulsory GCSE subjects are maths, English and science. It's compulsory to study RE but not compulsory to take a GCSE in it. MFL (e.g. French) was compulsory for a while a few years ago, but is no longer. http://www.careerpilot.org.uk/info/your-choices-at-14/gcses-compulsory-and-optional/#link1
    I think there may be a difference between what is legally compulsory and what an individual school requires. Grandson 2 is at a Kent (i.e. old-fashioned) Grammar School.
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    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,904
    EICIPM said:

    SURPRISE!!!!!!!

    If only
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    TudorRoseTudorRose Posts: 1,662

    TudorRose said:

    Chris said:

    dr_spyn said:
    Blimey, I should think so!

    It will be a sad day for this country when a leading politician cannot spend his election expenses in any way he sees fit.
    I note that they could have waited until June 11th before making this decision.....
    If the CPS had reached the decision that they were going to charge him, shouldn't the voters be able to weigh that in their choice?

    The CPS were placed awfully for their decision-making in the timing of this election. I think they've handled that awful position very well.
    On your first point, I would disagree. If a man is innocent until proved guilty then the voters should have nothing to weigh in their decision until that guilt is proven.
  • Options
    rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,922
    edited June 2017
    If I got to play God/Gove with the curriculum:

    More of:
    Basic statistics, probability, creative writing, financial education, genre fiction, philosophy,

    Less:
    Shakespeare, logarithms, geometry, reading plays, plants in biology, traditional sports, Romans and Ancient Egyptians.

    Compulsory reading hour once a week where kids choose what they want to read.

    All essays in exams to have word limits.

    That was a fun rant anyway. Totally subjective!
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    theakestheakes Posts: 842
    Strange, nothing is going right for the Conservatives. This could now be a loss for them, indeed can Mcinley actually be a legitimate candidate, he can be on the ballot paper but very difficult to support him. I have a funny feeling there may be a weekend poll with Labour ahead. The London polling suggests a move to the left there which could bring the South West seats of Twickenham etc into play as well as Con/Lab marginals. Trouble easy once you are on a slide in an election it gains momentum. Canada last year, incredible shift of opinion in the last 5 days. There they publish polls identifying who Leaners are leaning to, which tends to show what is likely to happen. Could do with a bit of that here.
    A Cons minority government would suit me, probably mean an end to the gung ho anti Europe business. Led by Boris, who of course would find a reason to justify staying in the EU?
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    SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,713

    bobajobPB said:

    Richard T

    Sam

    Strange to think, but if Ed Balls was leader, Labour would waltz home with a majority of 30-50.

    Yeh because Lab voters love Tory lite Manifestos
    they did when Blair was in charge, you know, when Labour last won an election.
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    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,904
    EICIPM said:

    SURPRISE!!!!!!!

    What May has answered a question?
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    kjohnwkjohnw Posts: 1,456
    meanwhile a bid to oust let McCluskey for bullying and intimidation during the unite election process

    Fresh bid to oust Unite union boss Len McCluskey
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40122571
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,013
    edited June 2017
    Mrs C, interesting comment on leadership (although I absolutely wasn't seeking it in either instance). I agree on single-sex honesty.

    It was also interesting to learn just how bitchy and backstabbing women can be, whilst far more polite in person.

    Edited extra bit: anyway, must be off.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,061
    So the CPS have spoken. Not sure it would matter if things were strong and stable. But they are wobbling anyway.

    Anyway, there's apparently going to be a landslide in this* election:

    https://twitter.com/AntonLaGuardia/status/870576163432923136

    *"this election" not being the UK's.

    I hope he lives up to the hopes that have let to his victories to date. I have no idea if he will be able to even partly, but even with the opposition he faced, he has had an incredibly impressive year.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,061
    Con lead was down to 3 with one poll. It is therefore entirely possible there will be one with Lab ahead.
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,405
    bobajobPB said:

    Richard T

    Sam

    Strange to think, but if Ed Balls was leader, Labour would waltz home with a majority of 30-50.

    I'd buy the 50.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,002

    Anyway, there's apparently going to be a landslide in this* election:

    https://twitter.com/AntonLaGuardia/status/870576163432923136

    *"this election" not being the UK's.

    France have got themselves a FAR better leader than the ridiculous pygmy choice we have in this election. Note to May - this is how you take a big lead and utterly crush it.
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    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,407
    theakes said:

    Strange, nothing is going right for the Conservatives. This could now be a loss for them, indeed can Mcinley actually be a legitimate candidate, he can be on the ballot paper but very difficult to support him. I have a funny feeling there may be a weekend poll with Labour ahead. The London polling suggests a move to the left there which could bring the South West seats of Twickenham etc into play as well as Con/Lab marginals. Trouble easy once you are on a slide in an election it gains momentum. Canada last year, incredible shift of opinion in the last 5 days. There they publish polls identifying who Leaners are leaning to, which tends to show what is likely to happen. Could do with a bit of that here.
    A Cons minority government would suit me, probably mean an end to the gung ho anti Europe business. Led by Boris, who of course would find a reason to justify staying in the EU?

    I think the moderator may be making a site comment on this subject soon
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,061
    TudorRose said:

    TudorRose said:

    Chris said:

    dr_spyn said:
    Blimey, I should think so!

    It will be a sad day for this country when a leading politician cannot spend his election expenses in any way he sees fit.
    I note that they could have waited until June 11th before making this decision.....
    If the CPS had reached the decision that they were going to charge him, shouldn't the voters be able to weigh that in their choice?

    The CPS were placed awfully for their decision-making in the timing of this election. I think they've handled that awful position very well.
    On your first point, I would disagree. If a man is innocent until proved guilty then the voters should have nothing to weigh in their decision until that guilt is proven.
    I would agree, unless there was a timetable on the decision - I'm a little confused, as it had been said previously by some that the deadline to charge was before the election date, but now apparently some are saying it could have waited.
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,805

    FF43 said:



    Nope because the only way that could happen is if the EEA treaty itself lapsed for all members. The UK is not a signatory via the EU but in its own right.

    For the same reason the separate Le Touquet treaty between France and the UK does not lapse at Brexit.

    Precisely, the EEA is a bilateral agreement between a consortium consisting of the EU and named member states and a set of named EFTA members. The respective obligations of the EU and the member states towards the consortium's side of the agreement is determined by the treaties between the EU and the member state. I'm not a lawyer, but it seems a massive stretch to assume the UK could participate in the EEA while not a member of the EU and without amending the EEA treaty.
    It has happened before. Sweden, Austria and Portugal all moved from EFTA to the EU and remained part of the EEA. There is absolutely no reason legally why the UK could not move the other way.
    The treaty was amended to include those countries in the contracting party.
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    dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    The trouble for anyone seeking or predicting an electoral impact is that the story cannot be reported beyond the announcement of charges. The less politically aware won't see exposure that makes it a thing. Social media it will just be one of hundreds of freneticly linked stories.
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,208
    Pulpstar said:

    Anyway, there's apparently going to be a landslide in this* election:

    https://twitter.com/AntonLaGuardia/status/870576163432923136

    *"this election" not being the UK's.

    France have got themselves a FAR better leader than the ridiculous pygmy choice we have in this election. Note to May - this is how you take a big lead and utterly crush it.
    If she was in a head to head with Farage I think she would be 65:35 ahead. But she isn't.

    Would Macron have beaten Melenchon 65:35?
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,680

    If 20 MPs had been charged, the CPS's decision might have affected the election directly. I expect that one MP being charged will not do so and instead its effects will be indirect: taking away oxygen from other stories today and preventing the Conservatives re-establishing any kind of momentum.

    This might be like the Sarah Wollaston defection to Remain story, that ran for a good 36 hours prior to the EU ref vote.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,061

    The trouble for anyone seeking or predicting an electoral impact is that the story cannot be reported beyond the announcement of charges. The less politically aware won't see exposure that makes it a thing. Social media it will just be one of hundreds of freneticly linked stories.

    Eh, maybe. If things were going great, maybe, but online it might get more traction now things are not going great. Though I do think it could almost have played better if the other option had been taken - lot more freedom to complain and insinuate.
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    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 31,023
    rkrkrk said:

    If I got to play God/Gove with the curriculum:

    More of:
    Basic statistics, probability, creative writing, financial education, genre fiction, philosophy,

    Less:
    Shakespeare, logarithms, geometry, reading plays, plants in biology, traditional sports, Romans and Ancient Egyptians.

    Compulsory reading hour once a week where kids choose what they want to read.

    All essays in exams to have word limits.

    That was a fun rant anyway. Totally subjective!

    In spite of never having gone past O level maths I have used logs and geometry at almost ever stage of my working life in one form or another. I certainly wouldn't want to see them downgraded.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,002
    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Anyway, there's apparently going to be a landslide in this* election:

    https://twitter.com/AntonLaGuardia/status/870576163432923136

    *"this election" not being the UK's.

    France have got themselves a FAR better leader than the ridiculous pygmy choice we have in this election. Note to May - this is how you take a big lead and utterly crush it.
    If she was in a head to head with Farage I think she would be 65:35 ahead. But she isn't.

    Would Macron have beaten Melenchon 65:35?
    The legislative elections are against all other parties I believe. This projection is a remarkable performance from a standing start.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,298
    edited June 2017
    Having been away and not really following the corbasm / Tory faultering closely, the Tory campaign seems bizzare...Bizzare as in there isn't one, willing to allow corbyn to pronounce all his uncosted give away without a tax bombshell in sight.

    It is neither the worst campaign in history or Messina / crosby know something the pollsters don't.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,680

    What is apparent is that the relationship between Theresa May and Philip Hammond has broken down. He's been invisible in this election campaign.

    She could have done with his input, frankly.

    The Conservatives are bloody lucky the media haven't made hay of this.
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,208
    Pulpstar said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Anyway, there's apparently going to be a landslide in this* election:

    https://twitter.com/AntonLaGuardia/status/870576163432923136

    *"this election" not being the UK's.

    France have got themselves a FAR better leader than the ridiculous pygmy choice we have in this election. Note to May - this is how you take a big lead and utterly crush it.
    If she was in a head to head with Farage I think she would be 65:35 ahead. But she isn't.

    Would Macron have beaten Melenchon 65:35?
    The legislative elections are against all other parties I believe. This projection is a remarkable performance from a standing start.
    The opposition is split, it's not May's fault that the Left is coalescing around Labour.
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    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 31,023
    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:



    Nope because the only way that could happen is if the EEA treaty itself lapsed for all members. The UK is not a signatory via the EU but in its own right.

    For the same reason the separate Le Touquet treaty between France and the UK does not lapse at Brexit.

    Precisely, the EEA is a bilateral agreement between a consortium consisting of the EU and named member states and a set of named EFTA members. The respective obligations of the EU and the member states towards the consortium's side of the agreement is determined by the treaties between the EU and the member state. I'm not a lawyer, but it seems a massive stretch to assume the UK could participate in the EEA while not a member of the EU and without amending the EEA treaty.
    Thinking more on this, I suppose theoretically the UK could implement the EEA protocols and insist on Liechtenstein etc reciprocating, but it wouldn't be able to force the EU or any of its member states to reciprocate because the UK isn't "contracted to" the EU and members under the EEA.
    Again missing the point that unless it leaves the EEA/EFTA bloc and so is in breach of the treaty, the UK cannot be thrown out of the EEA. It is an international treaty which the UK is an independent signatory to.
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    kjohnwkjohnw Posts: 1,456

    bobajobPB said:

    Richard T

    Sam

    Strange to think, but if Ed Balls was leader, Labour would waltz home with a majority of 30-50.

    Yeh because Lab voters love Tory lite Manifestos
    what surprises me is how little scrutiny that the Labour Party manifesto has received when it is just a promise box of spending spending spending to bribe the voters telling them what they want to hear and completely ignoring the problem of the deficit and Britains astronomical debts and the bankruptcy that would ensue if it were to be implemented . In the end it will be the poor that would suffer most from their manifesto when unemployment hits 5 million and inflation rates go through the roof - yet the Tories and the media have not even attempted to dissemble labours crank pot manifesto ,they are giving Corbyn a free ride
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,061

    If 20 MPs had been charged, the CPS's decision might have affected the election directly. I expect that one MP being charged will not do so and instead its effects will be indirect: taking away oxygen from other stories today and preventing the Conservatives re-establishing any kind of momentum.

    They've been terrible at establishing that after the very first week. Truly terrible, as they assumed anyone hearing Corbyn would not like him. Either they will be right in the end and the polls are all nonsense (even the ones with big Tory leads are down on those leads, albeit the share is not hugely down), or the campaign chiefs should get fired, and Crosby's no messiah.
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    dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786

    What is apparent is that the relationship between Theresa May and Philip Hammond has broken down. He's been invisible in this election campaign.

    She could have done with his input, frankly.

    The Conservatives are bloody lucky the media haven't made hay of this.
    It didn't hurt labour in 2005 with Blair and brown. They had an ice cream and nobody believed the story.that ended well.
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    timmotimmo Posts: 1,469
    Justin Greening was awful on Womans hour..i actually thought little Timmy was better...
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    rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,922

    rkrkrk said:

    If I got to play God/Gove with the curriculum:

    More of:
    Basic statistics, probability, creative writing, financial education, genre fiction, philosophy,

    Less:
    Shakespeare, logarithms, geometry, reading plays, plants in biology, traditional sports, Romans and Ancient Egyptians.

    Compulsory reading hour once a week where kids choose what they want to read.

    All essays in exams to have word limits.

    That was a fun rant anyway. Totally subjective!

    In spite of never having gone past O level maths I have used logs and geometry at almost ever stage of my working life in one form or another. I certainly wouldn't want to see them downgraded.
    What do you do/did you do that needs logarithms and geometry?
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,002
    From the Lib Dem forum:

    **CPS Announce charges against Craig Mackinlay**
    The Strict Liability Rule means that anything said in relation to the charges, even on social media, that could be seen to prejudice a trial is contempt of court.
    The moderating team in this group will monitor any posts in relation to CPS action. Any posts which we believe could be prejudicial or defamatory, we will remove without notice. We may also close commenting on other posts.
    Please also consider the guidance above when posting in other groups and in public, including retweeting or sharing others' posts.

    That will apply here to.
  • Options
    FensterFenster Posts: 2,115

    Sir_Geoff said:

    Is anyone else is a marginal surprised by the low level of ground activity? I'm within Dewsbury, albeit one of the Conservative leaning wards (that has been passed between Dewsbury and Wakefield). I've had the mailshot from both Lab and Cons, and one hand delivered leaflet each. No door knocking. Nothing at all from the minor parties. Fewer posters around than previous years. I'm led to believe Lab are concentrating their efforts on their core wards, and that the rise in membership over the last couple of years hasn't translated fully into feet on the ground.

    A similar story from what I see / hear in other nearby constituencies I visit: Wakefield, Halifax, Colne Valley, Calder Valley (although in the latter, the usual Liberal posters are reduced, and the legacy of hallucinogenic drug use in Hebden Bridge was evident in concentrated pockets of Corbymania).

    I have a good friend in Croydon Central, normally a LibDem voter and genuinely undecided, who is utterly besieged by Labour and Tory leaflets, canvassers and phone calls - she says she's never seen anything like it. Unlike some she enjoys it - she feels properly wooed. She'd still like to vote LibDem really, she dislikes the Tories over Brexit but really likes her Tory MP, she feels Labour offers hope and the Tories offer gloom. I have no idea how she'll decide.
    I'm in Ystrad Mynach (Caerphilly constitutency).

    I've received no mail from any party. I've seen nobody campaigning. I have seen a few Labour window stickers.

    It is a safe seat and Wayne David (Lab) will get in unhindered, so there's nothing to see here, move along.
  • Options
    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    kjohnw said:

    bobajobPB said:

    Richard T

    Sam

    Strange to think, but if Ed Balls was leader, Labour would waltz home with a majority of 30-50.

    Yeh because Lab voters love Tory lite Manifestos
    what surprises me is how little scrutiny that the Labour Party manifesto has received when it is just a promise box of spending spending spending to bribe the voters telling them what they want to hear and completely ignoring the problem of the deficit and Britains astronomical debts and the bankruptcy that would ensue if it were to be implemented . In the end it will be the poor that would suffer most from their manifesto when unemployment hits 5 million and inflation rates go through the roof - yet the Tories and the media have not even attempted to dissemble labours crank pot manifesto ,they are giving Corbyn a free ride
    And yet it is the Conservative manifesto which is uncosted. You might not like Labour's assumptions or even its arithmetic but at least they are there.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,298
    kle4 said:

    If 20 MPs had been charged, the CPS's decision might have affected the election directly. I expect that one MP being charged will not do so and instead its effects will be indirect: taking away oxygen from other stories today and preventing the Conservatives re-establishing any kind of momentum.

    They've been terrible at establishing that after the very first week. Truly terrible, as they assumed anyone hearing Corbyn would not like him. Either they will be right in the end and the polls are all nonsense (even the ones with big Tory leads are down on those leads, albeit the share is not hugely down), or the campaign chiefs should get fired, and Crosby's no messiah.
    I am not sure anybody really believed 25 point leads. When it came down to 14-15 that seems more likely, but now we are talking 3-8...Either it is polling disaster mkII or may / crosby / messina have run the worst campaign in history.
  • Options
    rkrkrk said:

    If I got to play God/Gove with the curriculum:

    More of:
    Basic statistics, probability, creative writing, financial education, genre fiction, philosophy,

    Less:
    Shakespeare, logarithms, geometry, reading plays, plants in biology, traditional sports, Romans and Ancient Egyptians.

    Compulsory reading hour once a week where kids choose what they want to read.

    All essays in exams to have word limits.

    That was a fun rant anyway. Totally subjective!

    I'm very familiar with the A* - G GCSE Maths curriculum (now being phased out), and I can assure you that logarithms are not mentioned, whereas statistics and probability figure quite prominently.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,405
    edited June 2017
    Here's what amazes me. For no doubt perfectly understandable reasons, the triumvirate (Jezza, McD, and Diane) dislike, disagree with the premise of, have opposed the actions of, and have put themselves at odds with the British State both in the past and perhaps, or rather, most likely currently also.

    That the country should now be considering voting these people in to run it is just unfathomable.
  • Options
    llefllef Posts: 298

    What is apparent is that the relationship between Theresa May and Philip Hammond has broken down. He's been invisible in this election campaign.

    She could have done with his input, frankly.

    The Conservatives are bloody lucky the media haven't made hay of this.
    If that is true, then it's deeply depressing, as it seems to me that Hammond is the best cabinet minister by far.
    If May is going to replace him as Chancellor, (assuming she is still PM), then she is an idiot!
  • Options
    rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,922

    kjohnw said:

    bobajobPB said:

    Richard T

    Sam

    Strange to think, but if Ed Balls was leader, Labour would waltz home with a majority of 30-50.

    Yeh because Lab voters love Tory lite Manifestos
    what surprises me is how little scrutiny that the Labour Party manifesto has received when it is just a promise box of spending spending spending to bribe the voters telling them what they want to hear and completely ignoring the problem of the deficit and Britains astronomical debts and the bankruptcy that would ensue if it were to be implemented . In the end it will be the poor that would suffer most from their manifesto when unemployment hits 5 million and inflation rates go through the roof - yet the Tories and the media have not even attempted to dissemble labours crank pot manifesto ,they are giving Corbyn a free ride
    And yet it is the Conservative manifesto which is uncosted. You might not like Labour's assumptions or even its arithmetic but at least they are there.
    It really was breathtaking arrogance not to cost their proposals. Wouldn't have been that hard.
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,407
    kjohnw said:

    bobajobPB said:

    Richard T

    Sam

    Strange to think, but if Ed Balls was leader, Labour would waltz home with a majority of 30-50.

    Yeh because Lab voters love Tory lite Manifestos
    what surprises me is how little scrutiny that the Labour Party manifesto has received when it is just a promise box of spending spending spending to bribe the voters telling them what they want to hear and completely ignoring the problem of the deficit and Britains astronomical debts and the bankruptcy that would ensue if it were to be implemented . In the end it will be the poor that would suffer most from their manifesto when unemployment hits 5 million and inflation rates go through the roof - yet the Tories and the media have not even attempted to dissemble labours crank pot manifesto ,they are giving Corbyn a free ride
    That is precisely my thoughts. I cannot understand why Theresa May or Hammond haven't shredded labour on their anti business, anti aspiration, high tax, high borrowing, inheritance tax and Land tax proposals.

    The team behind TM need to be sacked after this fiasco and I am disappointed in how the campaign has been fought

  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,298
    Of the young corbyn fans on my social media there is a brilliant bit of double think going on...Brexit is terrible, we need to be in the EU for trade and business will leave, then the next retweet / Facebook like, putting corporation tax up massively won't have businesses leaving because they have nowhere else to go....
  • Options
    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,422

    kjohnw said:

    bobajobPB said:

    Richard T

    Sam

    Strange to think, but if Ed Balls was leader, Labour would waltz home with a majority of 30-50.

    Yeh because Lab voters love Tory lite Manifestos
    what surprises me is how little scrutiny that the Labour Party manifesto has received when it is just a promise box of spending spending spending to bribe the voters telling them what they want to hear and completely ignoring the problem of the deficit and Britains astronomical debts and the bankruptcy that would ensue if it were to be implemented . In the end it will be the poor that would suffer most from their manifesto when unemployment hits 5 million and inflation rates go through the roof - yet the Tories and the media have not even attempted to dissemble labours crank pot manifesto ,they are giving Corbyn a free ride
    And yet it is the Conservative manifesto which is uncosted. You might not like Labour's assumptions or even its arithmetic but at least they are there.
    It might be uncosted but then the Conservatives hardly have a reputation for spraying money around, either in office over the last seven years, or in the nature of the manifesto launch. Labour, by contrast, does have a reputational and credibility issue there.
  • Options
    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    This is a point which I wish I had made more of in my thread about YouGov vs ICM, and while Philip Cowley is commenting only on London, it seems to be of general applicability:

    https://twitter.com/philipjcowley/status/870581473455288321
  • Options
    FensterFenster Posts: 2,115

    kjohnw said:

    bobajobPB said:

    Richard T

    Sam

    Strange to think, but if Ed Balls was leader, Labour would waltz home with a majority of 30-50.

    Yeh because Lab voters love Tory lite Manifestos
    what surprises me is how little scrutiny that the Labour Party manifesto has received when it is just a promise box of spending spending spending to bribe the voters telling them what they want to hear and completely ignoring the problem of the deficit and Britains astronomical debts and the bankruptcy that would ensue if it were to be implemented . In the end it will be the poor that would suffer most from their manifesto when unemployment hits 5 million and inflation rates go through the roof - yet the Tories and the media have not even attempted to dissemble labours crank pot manifesto ,they are giving Corbyn a free ride
    That is precisely my thoughts. I cannot understand why Theresa May or Hammond haven't shredded labour on their anti business, anti aspiration, high tax, high borrowing, inheritance tax and Land tax proposals.

    The team behind TM need to be sacked after this fiasco and I am disappointed in how the campaign has been fought

    The Tories are too polite. They were under Cameron and they are now. Bunch of wusses when it comes to going on the offensive.

    They should employ SeanT as their attack dog.
  • Options
    David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506
    Re Climate Change and Paris Accord

    Macron says:

    "MAKE OUR PLANET GREAT AGAIN"

  • Options
    rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,922

    rkrkrk said:

    If I got to play God/Gove with the curriculum:

    More of:
    Basic statistics, probability, creative writing, financial education, genre fiction, philosophy,

    Less:
    Shakespeare, logarithms, geometry, reading plays, plants in biology, traditional sports, Romans and Ancient Egyptians.

    Compulsory reading hour once a week where kids choose what they want to read.

    All essays in exams to have word limits.

    That was a fun rant anyway. Totally subjective!

    I'm very familiar with the A* - G GCSE Maths curriculum (now being phased out), and I can assure you that logarithms are not mentioned, whereas statistics and probability figure quite prominently.
    Ah okay. Things have changed since the 2000s.
    That claim about our MPs not knowing chance of two heads in a row was horrifying to me.
  • Options
    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Pulpstar said:

    From the Lib Dem forum:

    **CPS Announce charges against Craig Mackinlay**
    The Strict Liability Rule means that anything said in relation to the charges, even on social media, that could be seen to prejudice a trial is contempt of court.
    The moderating team in this group will monitor any posts in relation to CPS action. Any posts which we believe could be prejudicial or defamatory, we will remove without notice. We may also close commenting on other posts.
    Please also consider the guidance above when posting in other groups and in public, including retweeting or sharing others' posts.

    That will apply here to.

    Or, more succinctly:

    https://twitter.com/MartinBelam/status/870579903669956608
  • Options
    RestharrowRestharrow Posts: 233
    edited June 2017
    Has this been mentioned - UKIP tried to stand in Wrexham:

    http://www.wrexham.com/news/ukip-tried-to-stand-in-wrexham-fresh-forms-submitted-minutes-before-deadline-132282.html

    Stitch-up or screw-up? How many other UKIP no-shows are similar?

    Or just another Cardiff politico who thinks they can easily drive to Wrexham between breakfast and lunch?
  • Options
    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 31,023
    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:



    Nope because the only way that could happen is if the EEA treaty itself lapsed for all members. The UK is not a signatory via the EU but in its own right.

    For the same reason the separate Le Touquet treaty between France and the UK does not lapse at Brexit.

    Precisely, the EEA is a bilateral agreement between a consortium consisting of the EU and named member states and a set of named EFTA members. The respective obligations of the EU and the member states towards the consortium's side of the agreement is determined by the treaties between the EU and the member state. I'm not a lawyer, but it seems a massive stretch to assume the UK could participate in the EEA while not a member of the EU and without amending the EEA treaty.
    It has happened before. Sweden, Austria and Portugal all moved from EFTA to the EU and remained part of the EEA. There is absolutely no reason legally why the UK could not move the other way.
    The treaty was amended to include those countries in the contracting party.
    The treaty was amended by moving their names from the EFTA side to the EU side. That was it.

    There are levels of amendment to treaties and such minor amendments are done without a formal vote. A country cannot be forced out of a treaty unless it is in breach. This is all covered under the 1969 Convention. The only alternative is for the whole EEA treaty to collapse.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,298
    edited June 2017

    rkrkrk said:

    If I got to play God/Gove with the curriculum:

    More of:
    Basic statistics, probability, creative writing, financial education, genre fiction, philosophy,

    Less:
    Shakespeare, logarithms, geometry, reading plays, plants in biology, traditional sports, Romans and Ancient Egyptians.

    Compulsory reading hour once a week where kids choose what they want to read.

    All essays in exams to have word limits.

    That was a fun rant anyway. Totally subjective!

    I'm very familiar with the A* - G GCSE Maths curriculum (now being phased out), and I can assure you that logarithms are not mentioned, whereas statistics and probability figure quite prominently.
    How can do you any real maths without knowledge of logarithms?
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Pulpstar said:

    From the Lib Dem forum:

    **CPS Announce charges against Craig Mackinlay**
    The Strict Liability Rule means that anything said in relation to the charges, even on social media, that could be seen to prejudice a trial is contempt of court.
    The moderating team in this group will monitor any posts in relation to CPS action. Any posts which we believe could be prejudicial or defamatory, we will remove without notice. We may also close commenting on other posts.
    Please also consider the guidance above when posting in other groups and in public, including retweeting or sharing others' posts.

    That will apply here to.

    #1 Most Read in the BBC News website
  • Options
    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    Has this been mentioned - UKIP tried to stand in Wrexham:

    http://www.wrexham.com/news/ukip-tried-to-stand-in-wrexham-fresh-forms-submitted-minutes-before-deadline-132282.html

    Stitch-up or screw-up. How many other UKIP no-shows are similar.

    Or just another Cardiff politico who thinks they can easily drive to Wrexham between breakfast and lunch?

    Neil Hamilton has apparently stated that he is yet to visit the constituency in which he is standing during this campaign. UKIP clearly aren't taking this election too seriously in many places.
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @reactionlife: The odds of PM BoJo being in No 10 by July 1 have dropped from 100/1 to 25/1 in recent days. https://twitter.com/ladpolitics/status/870580804908437505
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,154
    Whilst I was aways confident that the vast bulk of the expenses charges against MPs would be thrown out, I always caveated it with an expectation that the courts might be invited to have a look at what went on in Thanet.

    One close advisor to Theresa May facing charges, another hung by his bollocks from Traitor's Gate over the Manifesto - she might be feeling somewhat short of advisors. Fear not, the pb.com Collective are always here to offer helpful suggestions, Prime Minister.....
  • Options
    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,422

    kle4 said:

    If 20 MPs had been charged, the CPS's decision might have affected the election directly. I expect that one MP being charged will not do so and instead its effects will be indirect: taking away oxygen from other stories today and preventing the Conservatives re-establishing any kind of momentum.

    They've been terrible at establishing that after the very first week. Truly terrible, as they assumed anyone hearing Corbyn would not like him. Either they will be right in the end and the polls are all nonsense (even the ones with big Tory leads are down on those leads, albeit the share is not hugely down), or the campaign chiefs should get fired, and Crosby's no messiah.
    I am not sure anybody really believed 25 point leads. When it came down to 14-15 that seems more likely, but now we are talking 3-8...Either it is polling disaster mkII or may / crosby / messina have run the worst campaign in history.
    The 20-point leads were right at the time; the local election results are entirely consistent with that level of support.

    But it's not the campaign strategists who've failed; the decline in the polls is down to those inside Number 10 (as well as Corbyn campaigning reasonably effectively and the Labour moderates keeping their traps shut - though both follow naturally from the Tory errors).
  • Options
    David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506

    kjohnw said:

    bobajobPB said:

    Richard T

    Sam

    Strange to think, but if Ed Balls was leader, Labour would waltz home with a majority of 30-50.

    Yeh because Lab voters love Tory lite Manifestos
    what surprises me is how little scrutiny that the Labour Party manifesto has received when it is just a promise box of spending spending spending to bribe the voters telling them what they want to hear and completely ignoring the problem of the deficit and Britains astronomical debts and the bankruptcy that would ensue if it were to be implemented . In the end it will be the poor that would suffer most from their manifesto when unemployment hits 5 million and inflation rates go through the roof - yet the Tories and the media have not even attempted to dissemble labours crank pot manifesto ,they are giving Corbyn a free ride
    That is precisely my thoughts. I cannot understand why Theresa May or Hammond haven't shredded labour on their anti business, anti aspiration, high tax, high borrowing, inheritance tax and Land tax proposals.

    The team behind TM need to be sacked after this fiasco and I am disappointed in how the campaign has been fought

    May does not let Hammond out on his own.

    May is ultra control freak. Which is good in a crisis situation but not otherwise.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,061
    surbiton said:

    Pulpstar said:

    From the Lib Dem forum:

    **CPS Announce charges against Craig Mackinlay**
    The Strict Liability Rule means that anything said in relation to the charges, even on social media, that could be seen to prejudice a trial is contempt of court.
    The moderating team in this group will monitor any posts in relation to CPS action. Any posts which we believe could be prejudicial or defamatory, we will remove without notice. We may also close commenting on other posts.
    Please also consider the guidance above when posting in other groups and in public, including retweeting or sharing others' posts.

    That will apply here to.

    #1 Most Read in the BBC News website
    It is very newsworthy. Of course, it is only 1 candidate out of 650 (or rather 630ish).
  • Options
    rkrkrk said:

    rkrkrk said:

    If I got to play God/Gove with the curriculum:

    More of:
    Basic statistics, probability, creative writing, financial education, genre fiction, philosophy,

    Less:
    Shakespeare, logarithms, geometry, reading plays, plants in biology, traditional sports, Romans and Ancient Egyptians.

    Compulsory reading hour once a week where kids choose what they want to read.

    All essays in exams to have word limits.

    That was a fun rant anyway. Totally subjective!

    I'm very familiar with the A* - G GCSE Maths curriculum (now being phased out), and I can assure you that logarithms are not mentioned, whereas statistics and probability figure quite prominently.
    Ah okay. Things have changed since the 2000s.
    That claim about our MPs not knowing chance of two heads in a row was horrifying to me.
    Google "Hannah's sweets" for an example of the probability questions that a good GCSE maths student is expected to be capable of tacking.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,061

    kjohnw said:

    bobajobPB said:

    Richard T

    Sam

    Strange to think, but if Ed Balls was leader, Labour would waltz home with a majority of 30-50.

    Yeh because Lab voters love Tory lite Manifestos
    what surprises me is how little scrutiny that the Labour Party manifesto has received when it is just a promise box of spending spending spending to bribe the voters telling them what they want to hear and completely ignoring the problem of the deficit and Britains astronomical debts and the bankruptcy that would ensue if it were to be implemented . In the end it will be the poor that would suffer most from their manifesto when unemployment hits 5 million and inflation rates go through the roof - yet the Tories and the media have not even attempted to dissemble labours crank pot manifesto ,they are giving Corbyn a free ride
    That is precisely my thoughts. I cannot understand why Theresa May or Hammond haven't shredded labour on their anti business, anti aspiration, high tax, high borrowing, inheritance tax and Land tax proposals.

    The team behind TM need to be sacked after this fiasco and I am disappointed in how the campaign has been fought

    May does not let Hammond out on his own.

    May is ultra control freak.
    And yet people are blaming her adviser for the manifesto, oddly.
  • Options
    David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506
    edited June 2017

    kjohnw said:

    bobajobPB said:

    Richard T

    Sam

    Strange to think, but if Ed Balls was leader, Labour would waltz home with a majority of 30-50.

    Yeh because Lab voters love Tory lite Manifestos
    what surprises me is how little scrutiny that the Labour Party manifesto has received when it is just a promise box of spending spending spending to bribe the voters telling them what they want to hear and completely ignoring the problem of the deficit and Britains astronomical debts and the bankruptcy that would ensue if it were to be implemented . In the end it will be the poor that would suffer most from their manifesto when unemployment hits 5 million and inflation rates go through the roof - yet the Tories and the media have not even attempted to dissemble labours crank pot manifesto ,they are giving Corbyn a free ride
    And yet it is the Conservative manifesto which is uncosted. You might not like Labour's assumptions or even its arithmetic but at least they are there.
    It might be uncosted but then the Conservatives hardly have a reputation for spraying money around, either in office over the last seven years, or in the nature of the manifesto launch. Labour, by contrast, does have a reputational and credibility issue there.
    Conservatives may not have a reputation for spraying money around but the last seven years' evidence says otherwise. Most government borrowing ever.
  • Options
    Fenster said:

    Sir_Geoff said:

    Is anyone else is a marginal surprised by the low level of ground activity? I'm within Dewsbury, albeit one of the Conservative leaning wards (that has been passed between Dewsbury and Wakefield). I've had the mailshot from both Lab and Cons, and one hand delivered leaflet each. No door knocking. Nothing at all from the minor parties. Fewer posters around than previous years. I'm led to believe Lab are concentrating their efforts on their core wards, and that the rise in membership over the last couple of years hasn't translated fully into feet on the ground.

    A similar story from what I see / hear in other nearby constituencies I visit: Wakefield, Halifax, Colne Valley, Calder Valley (although in the latter, the usual Liberal posters are reduced, and the legacy of hallucinogenic drug use in Hebden Bridge was evident in concentrated pockets of Corbymania).

    I have a good friend in Croydon Central, normally a LibDem voter and genuinely undecided, who is utterly besieged by Labour and Tory leaflets, canvassers and phone calls - she says she's never seen anything like it. Unlike some she enjoys it - she feels properly wooed. She'd still like to vote LibDem really, she dislikes the Tories over Brexit but really likes her Tory MP, she feels Labour offers hope and the Tories offer gloom. I have no idea how she'll decide.
    I'm in Ystrad Mynach (Caerphilly constitutency).

    I've received no mail from any party. I've seen nobody campaigning. I have seen a few Labour window stickers.

    It is a safe seat and Wayne David (Lab) will get in unhindered, so there's nothing to see here, move along.
    I am in equally safe Maidenhead but have had a leaflet from Con, 1 from UKIP and 2 from the LDs
  • Options

    rkrkrk said:

    If I got to play God/Gove with the curriculum:

    More of:
    Basic statistics, probability, creative writing, financial education, genre fiction, philosophy,

    Less:
    Shakespeare, logarithms, geometry, reading plays, plants in biology, traditional sports, Romans and Ancient Egyptians.

    Compulsory reading hour once a week where kids choose what they want to read.

    All essays in exams to have word limits.

    That was a fun rant anyway. Totally subjective!

    I'm very familiar with the A* - G GCSE Maths curriculum (now being phased out), and I can assure you that logarithms are not mentioned, whereas statistics and probability figure quite prominently.
    How can do you any real maths without knowledge of logarithms?
    Which real maths did you have in mind?
  • Options
    PongPong Posts: 4,693
    Well done Crick.
  • Options
    dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    kle4 said:

    surbiton said:

    Pulpstar said:

    From the Lib Dem forum:

    **CPS Announce charges against Craig Mackinlay**
    The Strict Liability Rule means that anything said in relation to the charges, even on social media, that could be seen to prejudice a trial is contempt of court.
    The moderating team in this group will monitor any posts in relation to CPS action. Any posts which we believe could be prejudicial or defamatory, we will remove without notice. We may also close commenting on other posts.
    Please also consider the guidance above when posting in other groups and in public, including retweeting or sharing others' posts.

    That will apply here to.

    #1 Most Read in the BBC News website
    It is very newsworthy. Of course, it is only 1 candidate out of 650 (or rather 630ish).
    Outside Thanet it won't swing many votes.
    In court July 4, expect to hear nothing about this in the media after today.
  • Options
    JonWCJonWC Posts: 285
    llef said:

    What is apparent is that the relationship between Theresa May and Philip Hammond has broken down. He's been invisible in this election campaign.

    She could have done with his input, frankly.

    The Conservatives are bloody lucky the media haven't made hay of this.
    If that is true, then it's deeply depressing, as it seems to me that Hammond is the best cabinet minister by far.
    If May is going to replace him as Chancellor, (assuming she is still PM), then she is an idiot!
    llef said:

    What is apparent is that the relationship between Theresa May and Philip Hammond has broken down. He's been invisible in this election campaign.

    She could have done with his input, frankly.

    The Conservatives are bloody lucky the media haven't made hay of this.
    If that is true, then it's deeply depressing, as it seems to me that Hammond is the best cabinet minister by far.
    If May is going to replace him as Chancellor, (assuming she is still PM), then she is an idiot!
    Hammond is dire.. it is his kind of hope-free budget carried forward into the manifesto which has got the Tories into this state. Just an extra billion quid or so would have stopped e.g. the Tory problem with school funding cuts which is going to cost with parents.
  • Options
    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    My flat is in a block which is the last in the constituency. So far I've had leaflets from Labour and the Lib Dems for the correct constituency and the Greens, the Workers' Revolutionary Party and the Christian People's Alliance for the wrong constituency.
  • Options
    David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506
    kle4 said:

    kjohnw said:

    bobajobPB said:

    Richard T

    Sam

    Strange to think, but if Ed Balls was leader, Labour would waltz home with a majority of 30-50.

    Yeh because Lab voters love Tory lite Manifestos
    what surprises me is how little scrutiny that the Labour Party manifesto has received when it is just a promise box of spending spending spending to bribe the voters telling them what they want to hear and completely ignoring the problem of the deficit and Britains astronomical debts and the bankruptcy that would ensue if it were to be implemented . In the end it will be the poor that would suffer most from their manifesto when unemployment hits 5 million and inflation rates go through the roof - yet the Tories and the media have not even attempted to dissemble labours crank pot manifesto ,they are giving Corbyn a free ride
    That is precisely my thoughts. I cannot understand why Theresa May or Hammond haven't shredded labour on their anti business, anti aspiration, high tax, high borrowing, inheritance tax and Land tax proposals.

    The team behind TM need to be sacked after this fiasco and I am disappointed in how the campaign has been fought

    May does not let Hammond out on his own.

    May is ultra control freak.
    And yet people are blaming her adviser for the manifesto, oddly.
    She has chosen to listen to only a few advisers and not consult colleagues. Like Blair - no Cabinet governance.
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    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 31,023
    rkrkrk said:

    rkrkrk said:

    If I got to play God/Gove with the curriculum:

    More of:
    Basic statistics, probability, creative writing, financial education, genre fiction, philosophy,

    Less:
    Shakespeare, logarithms, geometry, reading plays, plants in biology, traditional sports, Romans and Ancient Egyptians.

    Compulsory reading hour once a week where kids choose what they want to read.

    All essays in exams to have word limits.

    That was a fun rant anyway. Totally subjective!

    In spite of never having gone past O level maths I have used logs and geometry at almost ever stage of my working life in one form or another. I certainly wouldn't want to see them downgraded.
    What do you do/did you do that needs logarithms and geometry?
    Well right now today it is Reservoir Geomechanics - calculating stress fields and rock failures, things called Mohr-Coulomb failure envelopes. It is a basic part of (part of) my job of which I am doing a refresher course through Stanford University.

    But even a basic thing like setting out a grid for a field survey uses geometry.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,609

    Whilst I was aways confident that the vast bulk of the expenses charges against MPs would be thrown out, I always caveated it with an expectation that the courts might be invited to have a look at what went on in Thanet.

    One close advisor to Theresa May facing charges, another hung by his bollocks from Traitor's Gate over the Manifesto - she might be feeling somewhat short of advisors. Fear not, the pb.com Collective are always here to offer helpful suggestions, Prime Minister.....

    I'm quite happy to serve as Theresa May's Chief of Staff.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,061
    Given Labour have been cutting into the Tory lead on good and bad days for them, then if the Tories cannot create any momentum as seems likely, heading into the weekend, then expect it to be trimmed back further now.

    Labour to 40 in a poll? Believe that figure is going to happen in the election or not, we've almost had it in the polls already, so the chance has to be high.
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    David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506

    My flat is in a block which is the last in the constituency. So far I've had leaflets from Labour and the Lib Dems for the correct constituency and the Greens, the Workers' Revolutionary Party and the Christian People's Alliance for the wrong constituency.

    Workers' Revolutionary Party it is then.
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    camelcamel Posts: 815

    eek said:


    If only that was the case with my twins

    They have

    Maths
    English (both)
    RE
    Foreign Language
    Core science (2 GCSES)
    Geography or History

    And just 2 options - one of which gives you separate sciences

    One is doing Separate Sciences and Computer Science the other Computer Science and Music.

    Its worth noting that the GCSE computer science course is brand new for next year and virtually identical to the existing A-level course - I'm very impressed by the practical side of it - the background side isn't that great.

    Hmm. Looking at that list it may be I have misunderstood how the choices were made by my daughter. Although we certainly don't have a core science GCSE and she is doing the three separates.

    She is doing

    Maths
    English
    RE
    Foreign Language
    Biology
    Chemistry
    Physics
    History
    Economics
    Music ( I forgot this one in the previous list)

    So 10 in total and she has 2 or 3 exams in each I believe. She is doing a total of 26 exams.
    I find it sad that history and geography are either/ors. And geography seems to have pretty much disappeared from many GCSE students timetable.

    Our strong and stable prime minister and our future head of state are noted geography graduates, as was the ever-popular General Pinochet. Add in the late Saint Teresa of Calcutta for the perfect dinner party.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,002
    How appalling is it that the bloody French have managed to get a better leader than ANY of our choices on offer.
    It's making me green with envy looking at that kantar seat projection.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,061

    Whilst I was aways confident that the vast bulk of the expenses charges against MPs would be thrown out, I always caveated it with an expectation that the courts might be invited to have a look at what went on in Thanet.

    One close advisor to Theresa May facing charges, another hung by his bollocks from Traitor's Gate over the Manifesto - she might be feeling somewhat short of advisors. Fear not, the pb.com Collective are always here to offer helpful suggestions, Prime Minister.....

    I'm quite happy to serve as Theresa May's Chief of Staff.
    She can only hear 'Convince George to stand for parliament again and make him chancellor' so many times before she'd sack you.
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Sadly, due to a local church closure I no longer have the oddity of my polling place being outside of my constituency.

    It does mean my polling place is outside of my Council ward at the locals though.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,298
    edited June 2017

    rkrkrk said:

    If I got to play God/Gove with the curriculum:

    More of:
    Basic statistics, probability, creative writing, financial education, genre fiction, philosophy,

    Less:
    Shakespeare, logarithms, geometry, reading plays, plants in biology, traditional sports, Romans and Ancient Egyptians.

    Compulsory reading hour once a week where kids choose what they want to read.

    All essays in exams to have word limits.

    That was a fun rant anyway. Totally subjective!

    I'm very familiar with the A* - G GCSE Maths curriculum (now being phased out), and I can assure you that logarithms are not mentioned, whereas statistics and probability figure quite prominently.
    How can do you any real maths without knowledge of logarithms?
    Which real maths did you have in mind?
    Let's take for instance one of the most fundamental principles of science and maths, the gaussian distribution. If you don't know what logs and exponentials are and how to do calculus of functions which involve them you are pretty buggered.

    Most real probability based problems involve looking for things like max log likelihood.

    Etc etc etc
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,609
    I'd expect the trial of Craig Mackinlay to take place towards the end of the year/start of next year.
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    kjohnwkjohnw Posts: 1,456
    does anyone know what time the Lord Ashcroft polling analysis out?
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    JonWCJonWC Posts: 285

    rkrkrk said:

    If I got to play God/Gove with the curriculum:

    More of:
    Basic statistics, probability, creative writing, financial education, genre fiction, philosophy,

    Less:
    Shakespeare, logarithms, geometry, reading plays, plants in biology, traditional sports, Romans and Ancient Egyptians.

    Compulsory reading hour once a week where kids choose what they want to read.

    All essays in exams to have word limits.

    That was a fun rant anyway. Totally subjective!

    I'm very familiar with the A* - G GCSE Maths curriculum (now being phased out), and I can assure you that logarithms are not mentioned, whereas statistics and probability figure quite prominently.
    How can do you any real maths without knowledge of logarithms?
    Which real maths did you have in mind?
    Anything involving the exponential function i.e. calculus, probability would be a struggle? Not so much left.. you wouldn't get too advanced with the algebraic structures side of things either.
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    ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,021
    Fenster said:

    kjohnw said:

    bobajobPB said:

    Richard T

    Sam

    Strange to think, but if Ed Balls was leader, Labour would waltz home with a majority of 30-50.

    Yeh because Lab voters love Tory lite Manifestos
    what surprises me is how little scrutiny that the Labour Party manifesto has received when it is just a promise box of spending spending spending to bribe the voters telling them what they want to hear and completely ignoring the problem of the deficit and Britains astronomical debts and the bankruptcy that would ensue if it were to be implemented . In the end it will be the poor that would suffer most from their manifesto when unemployment hits 5 million and inflation rates go through the roof - yet the Tories and the media have not even attempted to dissemble labours crank pot manifesto ,they are giving Corbyn a free ride
    That is precisely my thoughts. I cannot understand why Theresa May or Hammond haven't shredded labour on their anti business, anti aspiration, high tax, high borrowing, inheritance tax and Land tax proposals.

    The team behind TM need to be sacked after this fiasco and I am disappointed in how the campaign has been fought

    The Tories are too polite. They were under Cameron and they are now. Bunch of wusses when it comes to going on the offensive.

    They should employ SeanT as their attack dog.
    Yes, because he's strong and stable, definitely not prone to u-turns. No siree!
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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    UKIP might win a seat after all?

    But Farage won't.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,154
    Can we please have an outbreak of Foot and Mouth - just a teensy weensy one, in which just three cows have to perish - but enough to stop the General Election and restart it again in a month. When the Tories have booted their entire campaign team up the arse and gone full metal jacket on Labour's complete bollocks of an economic policy?

    Ta.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,061
    Pulpstar said:

    How appalling is it that the bloody French have managed to get a better leader than ANY of our choices on offer.
    It's making me green with envy looking at that kantar seat projection.

    I don't know that it is appalling - what Macron has achieved so far is amazing (and if he can deliver, outstanding), and I'd not expect an amazing leader among a group of 6-7 anyway, though I'd like it. Amazing leaders don't come along every election.
This discussion has been closed.