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Quite right Mike. We should have been back at it today. A sense of mawkishness descends on these occasions. 22 people have been horribly murdered and it's very sad, especially for those involved. With 2 weeks to go another 22 people will be murdered in this country before we all go to vote. We won't have 20 page spreads in the papers for them and nor will we suspend our democratic processes.0
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Who is lying to ourselves by taking a modest bit of time out?kle4 said:
That's one way of looking at it, but others may, and I would, take the view from the other direction - why is it somehow unrealistic, unreasonable or even an affront to those tragically lost to do what we always lie to ourselves and pretend we will do: get on with our lives, despite the tragedy?TMA1 said:On topic.
A poor headline and not related to reality.
How many people blown to bits? How young? How utterly pointless. Why is it some sort of victory for bombers if we only get back to real campaigning on Friday?
It surely wouldn't be, therefore best to proceed.
In any event the headline is saying it is handing some sort of victory to the terrorists. Its not. Such a conclusion is just plain wrong headed.0 -
The lie is we say we won't be affected when we clearly are. Now, being affected is not wrong, and no one said taking modest time out is wrong either. We are arguing over how long modest is. You may feel more time is appropriate, I do not, that does not mean I think a pause of any length was wrong.TMA1 said:
Who is lying to ourselves by taking a modest bit of time out?kle4 said:
That's one way of looking at it, but others may, and I would, take the view from the other direction - why is it somehow unrealistic, unreasonable or even an affront to those tragically lost to do what we always lie to ourselves and pretend we will do: get on with our lives, despite the tragedy?TMA1 said:On topic.
A poor headline and not related to reality.
How many people blown to bits? How young? How utterly pointless. Why is it some sort of victory for bombers if we only get back to real campaigning on Friday?
It surely wouldn't be, therefore best to proceed.
In any event the headline is saying it is handing some sort of victory to the terrorists. Its not. Such a conclusion is just plain wrong headed.
As for if the headline is just plain wrong, I don't see it. They want to disrupt us, the longer we delay the more they have disrupted us. It is our choice how much we let it, and reasonable people will differ on how much we should, but though strongly expressed I don't see how mikes basic conclusion is unreasonable, even if one does not share it.
Night all.0 -
Some of the media lap it up!SeanT said:
If you showed that interview to a TV audience in say, 1957 or 1972, they would just laugh, presuming it a spoof: no woman would dress like that, or allow herself to be dressed like that. It would be the equivalent of a man seriously answering questions dressed as a duck billed platypus, with massive webbed plastic feet, or maybe a man quietly and soberly answering queries about sex crimes while wearing a balaclava with RAPIST written on the forehead.isam said:
Checkout what 'love' is made up of... ch4 didn't show it apparentlySeanT said:
OMFG. lol but UGH. How has this fucking hideous garment become acceptable in everyday life, such that it is just normal in a TV interview?isam said:
Haha I love him but you might have his weak spot thereSeanT said:
d go on and on about kinky sex, maybe the one, solitary area where he might be less well informed.isam said:
You must used veiled language of the sort Pinker talks about here around 10:50SeanT said:
Fascinating. Yes I would definitely report a guy blatantly and publicly watching ISIS execution and recruitment vids on a train.KentRising said:Sean T -
My friend wa.
The CT plod thanked my friend and said something like "we live off these types of tip-offs."
The moral of the long story is: if in doubt, report it.
My situation is more nuanced, tho. I only have evidence of deeper religiosity, and islamic conservatism. That is significantly different and, prima facie, less alarming. "I do not wish to make windows into men's souls", as Elizabeth I said, in her greatness. Part of what makes England/Britain a marvellous country is that you are free to believe what you like. Just don't impose your beliefs on others.
"Snitching" on this family JUST coz they have become devoutly religious (as far as I can tell) feels wrong. UnBritish.
I'm gonna talk to them. That's unBritish too, but less sneaky. Inshallah they will tell me about their son's recent boozy stag do in Prague, and all will be well.
https://youtu.be/LjQM8PzCEY0
Thoughts on Sids garb at 6:13?
youtu.be/LfrOZj6EBRI
Our forefathers, and foremothers, not least the Manchester suffragettes, would gaze at us with incredulity and contempt.
And yet, this has become normalised. It is so very wrong.0 -
The British response would be mockery.RobD said:
Some of the media lap it up!SeanT said:
If you showed that interview to a TV audience in say, 1957 or 1972, they would just laugh, presuming it a spoof: no woman would dress like that, or allow herself to be dressed like that. It would be the equivalent of a man seriously answering questions dressed as a duck billed platypus, with massive webbed plastic feet, or maybe a man quietly and soberly answering queries about sex crimes while wearing a balaclava with RAPIST written on the forehead.isam said:
Checkout what 'love' is made up of... ch4 didn't show it apparentlySeanT said:
OMFG. lol but UGH. How has this fucking hideous garment become acceptable in everyday life, such that it is just normal in a TV interview?isam said:
Haha I love him but you might have his weak spot thereSeanT said:
d go on and on about kinky sex, maybe the one, solitary area where he might be less well informed.isam said:
You must used veiled language of the sort Pinker talks about here around 10:50SeanT said:
Fascinating. Yes I would definitely report a guy blatantly and publicly watching ISIS execution and recruitment vids on a train.KentRising said:Sean T -
My friend wa.
The CT plod thanked my friend and said something like "we live off these types of tip-offs."
The moral of the long story is: if in doubt, report it.
My situation is more nuanced, tho. I only have evidence of deeper religiosity, and islamic conservatism. That is significantly different and, prima facie, less alarming. "I do not wish to make windows into men's souls", as Elizabeth I said, in her greatness. Part of what makes England/Britain a marvellous country is that you are free to believe what you like. Just don't impose your beliefs on others.
"Snitching" on this family JUST coz they have become devoutly religious (as far as I can tell) feels wrong. UnBritish.
I'm gonna talk to them. That's unBritish too, but less sneaky. Inshallah they will tell me about their son's recent boozy stag do in Prague, and all will be well.
https://youtu.be/LjQM8PzCEY0
Thoughts on Sids garb at 6:13?
youtu.be/LfrOZj6EBRI
Our forefathers, and foremothers, not least the Manchester suffragettes, would gaze at us with incredulity and contempt.
And yet, this has become normalised. It is so very wrong.0 -
The garb can be accepted as being culturally different if you will.SeanT said:
If you showed that interview to a TV audience in say, 1957 or 1972, they would just laugh, presuming it a spoof: no woman would dress like that, or allow herself to be dressed like that. It would be the equivalent of a man seriously answering questions dressed as a duck billed platypus, with massive webbed plastic feet, or maybe a man quietly and soberly answering queries about sex crimes while wearing a balaclava with RAPIST written on the forehead.isam said:
Checkout what 'love' is made up of... ch4 didn't show it apparentlySeanT said:
OMFG. lol but UGH. How has this fucking hideous garment become acceptable in everyday life, such that it is just normal in a TV interview?isam said:
Haha I love him but you might have his weak spot thereSeanT said:
d go on and on about kinky sex, maybe the one, solitary area where he might be less well informed.isam said:
You must used veiled language of the sort Pinker talks about here around 10:50SeanT said:
Fascinating. Yes I would definitely report a guy blatantly and publicly watching ISIS execution and recruitment vids on a train.KentRising said:Sean T -
My friend wa.
The CT plod thanked my friend and said something like "we live off these types of tip-offs."
The moral of the long story is: if in doubt, report it.
My situation is more nuanced, tho. I only have evidence of deeper religiosity, and islamic conservatism. That is significantly different and, prima facie, less alarming. "I do not wish to make windows into men's souls", as Elizabeth I said, in her greatness. Part of what makes England/Britain a marvellous country is that you are free to believe what you like. Just don't impose your beliefs on others.
"Snitching" on this family JUST coz they have become devoutly religious (as far as I can tell) feels wrong. UnBritish.
I'm gonna talk to them. That's unBritish too, but less sneaky. Inshallah they will tell me about their son's recent boozy stag do in Prague, and all will be well.
https://youtu.be/LjQM8PzCEY0
Thoughts on Sids garb at 6:13?
https://youtu.be/LfrOZj6EBRI
Our forefathers, and foremothers, not least the Manchester suffragettes, would gaze at us with incredulity and contempt.
And yet, this has become normalised. It is so very wrong.
@dixiedean Mocked certainly but...
More the grenade, the flick knife and the rifle of "love" that make up the O, V and E that is the worry here to be perfectly honest.
I don't particularly detect an ironic/sarcastic vibe about "Sid".................0 -
News broke Tuesday morning. Election resumes Friday. As you say, night all.kle4 said:
The lie is we say we won't be affected when we clearly are. Now, being affected is not wrong, and no one said taking modest time out is wrong either. We are arguing over how long modest is. You may feel more time is appropriate, I do not, that does not mean I think a pause of any length was wrong.TMA1 said:
Who is lying to ourselves by taking a modest bit of time out?kle4 said:
That's one way of looking at it, but others may, and I would, take the view from the other direction - why is it somehow unrealistic, unreasonable or even an affront to those tragically lost to do what we always lie to ourselves and pretend we will do: get on with our lives, despite the tragedy?TMA1 said:On topic.
A poor headline and not related to reality.
How many people blown to bits? How young? How utterly pointless. Why is it some sort of victory for bombers if we only get back to real campaigning on Friday?
It surely wouldn't be, therefore best to proceed.
In any event the headline is saying it is handing some sort of victory to the terrorists. Its not. Such a conclusion is just plain wrong headed.
As for if the headline is just plain wrong, I don't see it. They want to disrupt us, the longer we delay the more they have disrupted us. It is our choice how much we let it, and reasonable people will differ on how much we should, but though strongly expressed I don't see how mikes basic conclusion is unreasonable, even if one does not share it.
Night all.0 -
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This quite obviously a Gedankenexperiment but, anyway, mind your own business.SeanT said:Here's a very relevant modern-day dilemma, PB
I have a Muslim dry-cleaner, here in Camden. The patriarch and his sons run the shop, sometimes I see the daughters helping out. They've always been quite amiable, but they always maintain a distance. They aren't chatty. There is perhaps a hint of disdain for the Kaffir clientele, but that could just be me being paranoid. They clean my shirts very well. We all smile politely.
ANYWAY in recent months the family has changed. One of the sons has grown a VERY long beard and now dresses traditionally. He doesn't talk to me or any customers any more. The cowed and obedient daughters have disappeared entirely. Sometimes when I walk in the patriarch is playing videos on his iPhone which sound - to my ears - like ranting preachers. But it is in Arabic so I have no idea whether it is hate preaching, or just impassioned devotion. He hastily turns it off when I walk in.
Clearly this family has become more conservatively religious. But are they showing signs of being radicalised? My British instinct, my London instinct, is to shrug my shoulders and let them get on with their lives. Live and let live.
But what if that is wrong thing to do? Maybe I should mention to the police that this family is worth watching? Or is that a ludicrous waste of police time, and a betrayal of a perfectly respectable Muslim family who work hard and pay their taxes and are always polite?
What would you do?0 -
Well I think this thread tells us all we need to know about why so many terrorists slip through the net.0
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What a normal run of the mill family....
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4539462/Jihadi-family-police-warnings-Manchester-bomber.html
It is just me or it is slightly ponderous how given the fathers background he was allowed the job as security at an airport....0 -
No it doesn't. "the muslim community" reported the Manchester bombing several times and he "slipped through the net".Pulpstar said:Well I think this thread tells us all we need to know about why so many terrorists slip through the net.
Anyway, a Congressional candidate just did this to a guardian reporter, I know the Guardian hey are anooying but .......
https://twitter.com/Bencjacobs/status/8675172258209669120 -
Much that you can't go around doing that, the tweet sounds like something Walter the Softy would say!nunu said:
No it doesn't. "the muslim community" reported the Manchester bombing several times and he "slipped through the net".Pulpstar said:Well I think this thread tells us all we need to know about why so many terrorists slip through the net.
Anyway, a Congressional candidate just did this to a guardian reporter, I know the Guardian hey are anooying but .......
https://twitter.com/Bencjacobs/status/8675172258209669120 -
My view is report him, because you have a suspicion. The authorities will realise you're not the kind of person who's livid because darkies have moved in at no.47. The guy is probably absolutely fine and he probably hates Daesh as a very large majority of Muslims do. But who knows, maybe the police have information about his brother, who has been to Syria, and his son has started to spend a lot of time with his brother, or whatever.SeanT said:Sometimes when I walk in the patriarch is playing videos on his iPhone which sound - to my ears - like ranting preachers. But it is in Arabic so I have no idea whether it is hate preaching, or just impassioned devotion. He hastily turns it off when I walk in.
The videos could be of an imam chanting verses from the Koran to cleanse the premises of djinns, which is normal in many Muslim cultures in north Africa. If you catch a peek and see flames, don't worry, because fire is the element of djinns and action against them often involves burning.
But you don't want to wait until after an atrocity to wish you'd done something. There are probably several people in the country who are in that position right now.0 -
ISIS again killing Muslims - Marawi is 99.6% Muslim.Sunil_Prasannan said:Islamism's "Eastern Front":
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Marawi0 -
Bomb in Jakarta today tooMTimT said:
ISIS again killing Muslims - Marawi is 99.6% Muslim.Sunil_Prasannan said:Islamism's "Eastern Front":
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Marawi0 -
Labour will start local electioneering today (Thursday) and national Friday. Calling May out!0
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@williamglenn's identity unmasked?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/05/23/brussels-told-brexit/0 -
New thread!0
