politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » GE2017 campaign suspended though what that means is hard to sa
Comments
-
The two are not mutually exclusive.RobD said:
Keep calm and carry on would have been better IMO.freetochoose said:BBC have just shown a big screen saying PRAY FOR MANCHESTER.
ffs if praying worked this wouldn't have happened0 -
"Atheist prayers" !RobD said:
Ugh, totally unnecessary.Paristonda said:
Well if you are Laurie Penny, you send your 'atheist prayers' (she tweeted that after the Westminster attack)David_Evershed said:freetochoose said:BBC have just shown a big screen saying PRAY FOR MANCHESTER.
ffs if praying worked this wouldn't have happened
Yes - but which God should we pray to?
https://twitter.com/PennyRed/status/844588769177206784
Never normally put that explicitly, but that's fantastically British and something I must confess myself guilty of xD0 -
Yes, for the scumbags to only get lucky once in twelve years is a bloody good record. Well done to those whose job it is to keep us all safe.RobD said:
Given it's been twelve years since the last bombing I'd say they are doing a pretty good job.JonathanD said:
Britain's world class intelligence and security services were meant to be one of our Brexit bargaining chips so it seems appropriate.GeoffM said:Is a comment from a random foreigner the most appropriate tweet to head this thread?
Probably better than the Suns 'your money or your life' headline.0 -
Sky News carrying testimony from people who were inside the arena - Emergency Services were already on-site by the time they had made their way out.0
-
Each to their own, I suppose!Pulpstar said:
"Atheist prayers" !RobD said:
Ugh, totally unnecessary.Paristonda said:
Well if you are Laurie Penny, you send your 'atheist prayers' (she tweeted that after the Westminster attack)David_Evershed said:freetochoose said:BBC have just shown a big screen saying PRAY FOR MANCHESTER.
ffs if praying worked this wouldn't have happened
Yes - but which God should we pray to?
https://twitter.com/PennyRed/status/844588769177206784
Never normally put that explicitly, but that's fantastically British and something I must confess myself guilty of xD0 -
Anyone know when the PM will speak?0
-
True Sunil but it did change the Spanish election after the Madrid train bombings .Sunil_Prasannan said:
"Crime is crime. It is NOT political!" - Maggie, 1981.YBarddCwsc said:The problem is that the terrorist act itself was political, so there is no real way it can be divorced form the day-to-day politics of the General Election, or the beliefs of the participants.
It’s very sad. The election was already depressing enough.
After a respite to allow tempers to cool, it seems completely inevitable that this terrorist act will become embroiled in the Election.
JackW is simply stating the logical conclusion & the consequences.0 -
BBC said within the next few hours, although I think they said at 12 she'd be off to Manchester.KentRising said:Anyone know when the PM will speak?
0 -
Guido reckons Labour's biggest donor is Max Mosley to the tune of £300,000.
https://order-order.com/2017/05/23/mosley-donates-300000-to-labour-election-war-chest/
That would pay for 10,000 policemen! And women.
0 -
That's because the government of the day was lying about who carried out the attack.Yorkcity said:
True Sunil but it did change the Spanish election after the Madrid train bombings .Sunil_Prasannan said:
"Crime is crime. It is NOT political!" - Maggie, 1981.YBarddCwsc said:The problem is that the terrorist act itself was political, so there is no real way it can be divorced form the day-to-day politics of the General Election, or the beliefs of the participants.
It’s very sad. The election was already depressing enough.
After a respite to allow tempers to cool, it seems completely inevitable that this terrorist act will become embroiled in the Election.
JackW is simply stating the logical conclusion & the consequences.0 -
I suspect that is what Corbyn cultists will call for.freetochoose said:
Are you mad? The terrorists have won unequivocally if we opt out of democracy.theakes said:This is a totally unnecessary election and a waste of public money. I know some will say if the election is cancelled that means the bomber has won, but I think this is the best we can do, after all there may be more planned in the next 2 weeks and all the security on the election can be added to counter the attackers whoever they may be. Cancel the election I say.
0 -
You're not kidding, York. I was on the Tube at Stratford a few hours after the winning bid was announced. It was so exhilarating. Next day.....Yorkcity said:
Well said I remember driving to work hearing the word London on the radio announcing the Olympic bid.Then the terrible news the next day.Peter_the_Punter said:
Following the London July bombings, Bertrand Delanoë, mayor of Paris, referred to the disappointment Parisians had felt at losing out the previous day on the city's Olympic bid. 'Yesterday', he said, 'we were competitors. Today, we're all Londoners".RobD said:
Keep calm and carry on would have been better IMO.freetochoose said:BBC have just shown a big screen saying PRAY FOR MANCHESTER.
ffs if praying worked this wouldn't have happened
It was very touching. Maybe today we can all be Mancunians.0 -
That's not true though, is it? It is political when those carrying it out intend it to be, and when the consequences of it have political ramifications.Sunil_Prasannan said:
"Crime is crime. It is NOT political!" - Maggie, 1981.YBarddCwsc said:The problem is that the terrorist act itself was political, so there is no real way it can be divorced form the day-to-day politics of the General Election, or the beliefs of the participants.
It’s very sad. The election was already depressing enough.
After a respite to allow tempers to cool, it seems completely inevitable that this terrorist act will become embroiled in the Election.
JackW is simply stating the logical conclusion & the consequences.0 -
Jack I asked before what is your position on the truth about Corbyn ? Do you put the ex mayor of London in the same position.JackW said:
I am not arguing for voting for any political party but expressing my view on the significant implications of the event for Corbyn.IanB2 said:
I worry that you cannot see how seeking to use the murder of innocent teenagers, just hours after the event, the victims as yet unidentified and for reasons still unknown, to advance your argument for not voting for a particular party in the coming election is both seeking advantage and unworthy.JackW said:
My posts are clearly deliberate but perhaps you might clarify why they are "unworthy" and why I would "seek advantage" for a particular party?IanB2 said:Correct.
Your posts are deliberate and unworthy, and seek advantage. Whether they are based on truth, or not, is irrelevant. As I said.
Your original post has already attracted sufficient responses to indicate you are fighting a losing battle with this one.
This site exists for the discussion of such matters.0 -
That's before the IRA tried to kill her and her cabinet...Sunil_Prasannan said:
"Crime is crime. It is NOT political!" - Maggie, 1981.YBarddCwsc said:The problem is that the terrorist act itself was political, so there is no real way it can be divorced form the day-to-day politics of the General Election, or the beliefs of the participants.
It’s very sad. The election was already depressing enough.
After a respite to allow tempers to cool, it seems completely inevitable that this terrorist act will become embroiled in the Election.
JackW is simply stating the logical conclusion & the consequences.
0 -
The government lies and spin changed the election, not the attack.Yorkcity said:
True Sunil but it did change the Spanish election after the Madrid train bombings .Sunil_Prasannan said:
"Crime is crime. It is NOT political!" - Maggie, 1981.YBarddCwsc said:The problem is that the terrorist act itself was political, so there is no real way it can be divorced form the day-to-day politics of the General Election, or the beliefs of the participants.
It’s very sad. The election was already depressing enough.
After a respite to allow tempers to cool, it seems completely inevitable that this terrorist act will become embroiled in the Election.
JackW is simply stating the logical conclusion & the consequences.0 -
Lol! Yes, dark - but brilliant.Blue_rog said:
Reminds me of a joke that did the rounds soon after about someone of the tube saying 'I knew the French were upset about the Olympic bid but this is ridiculous'Peter_the_Punter said:
Following the London July bombings, Bertrand Delanoë, mayor of Paris, referred to the disappointment Parisians had felt at losing out the previous day on the city's Olympic bid. 'Yesterday', he said, 'we were competitors. Today, we're all Londoners".RobD said:
Keep calm and carry on would have been better IMO.freetochoose said:BBC have just shown a big screen saying PRAY FOR MANCHESTER.
ffs if praying worked this wouldn't have happened
It was very touching. Maybe today we can all be Mancunians.
Shows British humour shines through in the greatest tragedy.
0 -
You are quite correct.JackW said:
I am not arguing for voting for any political party but expressing my view on the significant implications of the event for Corbyn.IanB2 said:
I worry that you cannot see how seeking to use the murder of innocent teenagers, just hours after the event, the victims as yet unidentified and for reasons still unknown, to advance your argument for not voting for a particular party in the coming election is both seeking advantage and unworthy.JackW said:
My posts are clearly deliberate but perhaps you might clarify why they are "unworthy" and why I would "seek advantage" for a particular party?IanB2 said:Correct.
Your posts are deliberate and unworthy, and seek advantage. Whether they are based on truth, or not, is irrelevant. As I said.
Your original post has already attracted sufficient responses to indicate you are fighting a losing battle with this one.
This site exists for the discussion of such matters.
Does anyone think that in the event of a terrorist attack using an aircraft that PPRuNe would not start discussing the aeroplane?
Does anyone think that in the event of a cyber-terrorist attack that Slashdot wouldn't start analysing the digital fingerprint instantly?
For anyone else, www.virtue-signalling-and-handwringing.com is available. Or "Facebook" as it's also known.0 -
Might actually be in the next 10-15mins.KentRising said:Anyone know when the PM will speak?
0 -
-
She said it after the IRA prioners demanded "political status", leading to their hunger strike.notme said:
That's before the IRA tried to kill her and her cabinet...Sunil_Prasannan said:
"Crime is crime. It is NOT political!" - Maggie, 1981.YBarddCwsc said:The problem is that the terrorist act itself was political, so there is no real way it can be divorced form the day-to-day politics of the General Election, or the beliefs of the participants.
It’s very sad. The election was already depressing enough.
After a respite to allow tempers to cool, it seems completely inevitable that this terrorist act will become embroiled in the Election.
JackW is simply stating the logical conclusion & the consequences.0 -
Can we expect a recall of Parliament before polling day?0
-
I love how the BBC says this is a "rare" suspension in campaigning, then reminds us that campaigning was also suspended in the previous two huge elections - the EU ref (Jo Cox) and the 2015 GE (John Paul).0
-
The corbyn cult really are mad.nunu said:0 -
Not really, it's like we have a post terrorist attack check list to tick off. Candles, flowers, flags at half mast, flag colours lighting on prominent buildings*, memes, hashtags, "we stand with X", TV montages of people crying at the site of the attack, TV montages of people defying terrorism by going to work (as though people have a choice), etc. It happens so often now it has become clichéd.RobD said:
So "Keep calm and #CarryOn" wouldn't work for you?glw said:
I'd prefer it if politicians avoided all the "we stand with X" statements, and there weren't the hashtags, and we didn't illuminate building in the colours of flags. It all seems utterly banal, futile, and repetitive.RobD said:
Keep calm and carry on would have been better IMO.freetochoose said:BBC have just shown a big screen saying PRAY FOR MANCHESTER.
ffs if praying worked this wouldn't have happened
* Seriously, do prominent buildings now have terrorist attack memorial lights/projectors installed as standard? Or can you hire these at very short notice?0 -
No. There is no Parliament until after the election.GIN1138 said:Can we expect a recall of Parliament before polling day?
0 -
Yes it is. Crime is crime. You are confusing the act with the motive.david_herdson said:
That's not true though, is it? It is political when those carrying it out intend it to be, and when the consequences of it have political ramifications.Sunil_Prasannan said:
"Crime is crime. It is NOT political!" - Maggie, 1981.YBarddCwsc said:The problem is that the terrorist act itself was political, so there is no real way it can be divorced form the day-to-day politics of the General Election, or the beliefs of the participants.
It’s very sad. The election was already depressing enough.
After a respite to allow tempers to cool, it seems completely inevitable that this terrorist act will become embroiled in the Election.
JackW is simply stating the logical conclusion & the consequences.0 -
I suppose she's not gone full Hopkins, damn close though.
https://twitter.com/allisonpearson/status/866919296919904256
I can hardly wait to see what Julia Hartley-Brewer has to say.0 -
Yes apologies Sandy I remember now did they try to blame Basque separatist ?SandyRentool said:
The government lies and spin changed the election, not the attack.Yorkcity said:
True Sunil but it did change the Spanish election after the Madrid train bombings .Sunil_Prasannan said:
"Crime is crime. It is NOT political!" - Maggie, 1981.YBarddCwsc said:The problem is that the terrorist act itself was political, so there is no real way it can be divorced form the day-to-day politics of the General Election, or the beliefs of the participants.
It’s very sad. The election was already depressing enough.
After a respite to allow tempers to cool, it seems completely inevitable that this terrorist act will become embroiled in the Election.
JackW is simply stating the logical conclusion & the consequences.0 -
-
Mr. Pulpstar, atheist prayers is almost as irksome as when Chris Martin described himself as an alltheist.
I, for one, shall be sacrificing a goat to Ares, that he might smite our foes with great wrath and furious vengeance.0 -
Thanks all.
I didn't actually know people stop being MP's when Parliament is dissolved.
So the government is actually a government of regular members of the public at the moment rather than MP's?
Theresa May is is Prime Minister as Theresa May (member of the public) rather than Theresa May May (MP) ?0 -
+1. After these horrible events I don't feel like commenting on everyday politics today. But I will say that I disagree with the idea that the election should be cancelled. It's important to avoid doing anything that make people like the bombers feel "that achieved something". Normal life should resume as soon as possible, after an appropriate pause.AlastairMeeks said:Anyone upset that people are considering the party political implications of what seems to be a major terrorist attack in the middle of a general election campaign is probably on the wrong website today. I can completely understand why people might not feel able to since I'm among their number, so I'll give today a miss on here. That's not a criticism of those who feel differently, because it is a legitimate subject for discussion.
0 -
Time and a place though, isn't there, Jack?JackW said:
I am not arguing for voting for any political party but expressing my view on the significant implications of the event for Corbyn.IanB2 said:
I worry that you cannot see how seeking to use the murder of innocent teenagers, just hours after the event, the victims as yet unidentified and for reasons still unknown, to advance your argument for not voting for a particular party in the coming election is both seeking advantage and unworthy.JackW said:
My posts are clearly deliberate but perhaps you might clarify why they are "unworthy" and why I would "seek advantage" for a particular party?IanB2 said:Correct.
Your posts are deliberate and unworthy, and seek advantage. Whether they are based on truth, or not, is irrelevant. As I said.
Your original post has already attracted sufficient responses to indicate you are fighting a losing battle with this one.
This site exists for the discussion of such matters.
Immediate attempts to make political capital out of such distressing events are likely to be viewed with disdain.
You got dangerously close, my old cocker.0 -
Yeah, from wiki (election was 3 days later)...Yorkcity said:
Yes apologies Sandy I remember now did they try to blame Basque separatist ?SandyRentool said:
The government lies and spin changed the election, not the attack.Yorkcity said:
True Sunil but it did change the Spanish election after the Madrid train bombings .Sunil_Prasannan said:
"Crime is crime. It is NOT political!" - Maggie, 1981.YBarddCwsc said:The problem is that the terrorist act itself was political, so there is no real way it can be divorced form the day-to-day politics of the General Election, or the beliefs of the participants.
It’s very sad. The election was already depressing enough.
After a respite to allow tempers to cool, it seems completely inevitable that this terrorist act will become embroiled in the Election.
JackW is simply stating the logical conclusion & the consequences.
The electoral outcome was heavily influenced by the aftermath of the 11 March 2004 Madrid train bombings. For the remaining days before the election, the PP government kept claiming evidence that the terrorist organization ETA was responsible for the bombings. However, it soon became evident that the bombings had not been authored according to ETA's modus operandi, and new evidence pointed out to an Islamist attack with possible links to al-Qaeda. The government was accused of hiding information so as to prevent linking the attack to Islamist groups, as it would have been seen by the Spanish public as a consequence of the PP government taking Spain into the unpopular Iraq War, weakening its chances to being re-elected in the incoming election.0 -
Quite right. She's still a minister of the crown, since that is still around.GIN1138 said:Thanks all.
I didn't actually know people stop being MP's when Parliament is dissolved.
So the government is actually a government of regular members of the public at the moment rather than MP's?
Theresa May is is Prime Minister as Theresa May (member of the public) rather than Theresa May May (MP) ?0 -
It's the bollocks society does to avoid confronting and tackling the actual issue. Everyone can light a candle or lower a flag because it's easy; what we actually do to ensure our society no longer lives in fear is a lot harder to contemplate.glw said:
Not really, it's like we have a post terrorist attack check list to tick off. Candles, flowers, flags at half mast, flag colours lighting on prominent buildings*, memes, hashtags, "we stand with X", TV montages of people crying at the site of the attack, TV montages of people defying terrorism by going to work (as though people have a choice), etc. It happens so often now it has become clichéd.RobD said:
So "Keep calm and #CarryOn" wouldn't work for you?glw said:
I'd prefer it if politicians avoided all the "we stand with X" statements, and there weren't the hashtags, and we didn't illuminate building in the colours of flags. It all seems utterly banal, futile, and repetitive.RobD said:
Keep calm and carry on would have been better IMO.freetochoose said:BBC have just shown a big screen saying PRAY FOR MANCHESTER.
ffs if praying worked this wouldn't have happened
* Seriously, do prominent buildings now have terrorist attack memorial lights/projectors installed as standard? Or can you hire these at very short notice?0 -
I can't believe during my wobble I seriously thought about voting Labour. they need to be finished as a party:
https://twitter.com/Breacai/status/8668970374297559050 -
Can't believe they are tagging Corbyn. Are they expecting him to agree?nunu said:I can't believe during my wobble I seriously thought about voting Labour. they need to be finished as a party:
https://twitter.com/Breacai/status/8668970374297559050 -
-
Apologies for failing to respond.Yorkcity said:
Jack I asked before what is your position on the truth about Corbyn ? Do you put the ex mayor of London in the same position.JackW said:
I am not arguing for voting for any political party but expressing my view on the significant implications of the event for Corbyn.IanB2 said:
I worry that you cannot see how seeking to use the murder of innocent teenagers, just hours after the event, the victims as yet unidentified and for reasons still unknown, to advance your argument for not voting for a particular party in the coming election is both seeking advantage and unworthy.JackW said:
My posts are clearly deliberate but perhaps you might clarify why they are "unworthy" and why I would "seek advantage" for a particular party?IanB2 said:Correct.
Your posts are deliberate and unworthy, and seek advantage. Whether they are based on truth, or not, is irrelevant. As I said.
Your original post has already attracted sufficient responses to indicate you are fighting a losing battle with this one.
This site exists for the discussion of such matters.
Jezza and Ken are peas from the same pod.
Over the decades they have condemned themselves in the written and spoken word.0 -
0
-
Once again this is very close to home. This attack targeted children, words cannot express the feelings of so many people affected by this, none more so than the family and friends of the dead, injured and traumatised. In March 93 other nameless "losers" targeted children close to Mothers Day, then in 96 Manchester was itself was a target. We have long memories. The perpetrators of these evil acts and their supporters need to understand that one day acts and comments that they waved off round the corner will come back round a corner behind them unannounced.
A sad day.0 -
What's that got to do with the Labour party?nunu said:I can't believe during my wobble I seriously thought about voting Labour. they need to be finished as a party:
https://twitter.com/Breacai/status/8668970374297559050 -
JPII was 2005?KentRising said:I love how the BBC says this is a "rare" suspension in campaigning, then reminds us that campaigning was also suspended in the previous two huge elections - the EU ref (Jo Cox) and the 2015 GE (John Paul).
0 -
I should qualify what I said, I don't mind at all how people affected choose to grieve or show sorrow. It's the response of those unaffected that bothers me, as you say it's an easy way to think something has been done, but it's not really doing anything useful.KentRising said:It's the bollocks society does to avoid confronting and tackling the actual issue. Everyone can light a candle or lower a flag because it's easy; what we actually do to ensure our society no longer lives in fear is a lot harder to contemplate.
0 -
May statement imminent0
-
Welcome to pb.com, Mr. Wire.
0 -
In contrast to some of the recent terrorist incidents, this seems to have been quite a sophisticated attack; producing an 'improvised explosive device' capable of causing so much carnage but small enough to take into the foyer of a venue like this would not be easy. Whoever the murderer was, he must have been trained.0
-
I'm not confusing them; I'm recognising that both exist. To simply state that "crime is crime" is to imply that there is no political element to the crime (or, for that matter, no social, economic or other aspects). Clearly there can be and, in cases like this, there is.GeoffM said:
Yes it is. Crime is crime. You are confusing the act with the motive.david_herdson said:
That's not true though, is it? It is political when those carrying it out intend it to be, and when the consequences of it have political ramifications.Sunil_Prasannan said:
"Crime is crime. It is NOT political!" - Maggie, 1981.YBarddCwsc said:The problem is that the terrorist act itself was political, so there is no real way it can be divorced form the day-to-day politics of the General Election, or the beliefs of the participants.
It’s very sad. The election was already depressing enough.
After a respite to allow tempers to cool, it seems completely inevitable that this terrorist act will become embroiled in the Election.
JackW is simply stating the logical conclusion & the consequences.0 -
The public sector borrowing figures have been published..
The 2016/2017 deficit is revised down from £52bn to £48.7bn - three billion pounds less than the most recent OBR forecast.
Gross debt interest was £49.1bn, £400m higher than the overall deficit.
0 -
Some good news, although I think the borrowing figures for this month weren't great.chestnut said:The public sector borrowing figures have been published..
The 2016/2017 deficit is revised down from £52bn to £48.7bn - three billion pounds less than the most recent OBR forecast.
Gross debt interest was £49.1bn, £400m higher than the overall deficit.0 -
Yes I respect JackW he could have refrained for a time I feel.Peter_the_Punter said:
Time and a place though, isn't there, Jack?JackW said:
I am not arguing for voting for any political party but expressing my view on the significant implications of the event for Corbyn.IanB2 said:
I worry that you cannot see how seeking to use the murder of innocent teenagers, just hours after the event, the victims as yet unidentified and for reasons still unknown, to advance your argument for not voting for a particular party in the coming election is both seeking advantage and unworthy.JackW said:
My posts are clearly deliberate but perhaps you might clarify why they are "unworthy" and why I would "seek advantage" for a particular party?IanB2 said:Correct.
Your posts are deliberate and unworthy, and seek advantage. Whether they are based on truth, or not, is irrelevant. As I said.
Your original post has already attracted sufficient responses to indicate you are fighting a losing battle with this one.
This site exists for the discussion of such matters.
Immediate attempts to make political capital out of such distressing events are likely to be viewed with disdain.
You got dangerously close, my old cocker.0 -
-
So current expenditure is now in a surplus if it wasn't for interest?chestnut said:The public sector borrowing figures have been published..
The 2016/2017 deficit is revised down from £52bn to £48.7bn - three billion pounds less than the most recent OBR forecast.
Gross debt interest was £49.1bn, £400m higher than the overall deficit.
That is a good milestone to have reached.0 -
Ministers are regular members of the public. They don't have to be MPs or Lords, although in practice usually are.GIN1138 said:Thanks all.
I didn't actually know people stop being MP's when Parliament is dissolved.
So the government is actually a government of regular members of the public at the moment rather than MP's?
Theresa May is is Prime Minister as Theresa May (member of the public) rather than Theresa May May (MP) ?0 -
0
-
ZZZZZZZZZZZOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMMMnunu said:
Wind up account:
"Christian survivor of Staffordshire Pindown child abuse/secret SHARIA family courts abuse. Pro Brexit, GOD BLESS DONALD TRUMP! I block list adders and paedos."
0 -
They are corbyn cultists, they joined the labour party and voted for him as leader twice, despite his past and present statements on terrorists. It goes to the heart of the current labour membership.murali_s said:
What's that got to do with the Labour party?nunu said:I can't believe during my wobble I seriously thought about voting Labour. they need to be finished as a party:
https://twitter.com/Breacai/status/8668970374297559050 -
-
You forgot putting a frame round your facebook page, and claiming that this has nothing to do with [something it obviously has 100% to do with].glw said:
Not really, it's like we have a post terrorist attack check list to tick off. Candles, flowers, flags at half mast, flag colours lighting on prominent buildings*, memes, hashtags, "we stand with X", TV montages of people crying at the site of the attack, TV montages of people defying terrorism by going to work (as though people have a choice), etc. It happens so often now it has become clichéd.RobD said:
So "Keep calm and #CarryOn" wouldn't work for you?glw said:
I'd prefer it if politicians avoided all the "we stand with X" statements, and there weren't the hashtags, and we didn't illuminate building in the colours of flags. It all seems utterly banal, futile, and repetitive.RobD said:
Keep calm and carry on would have been better IMO.freetochoose said:BBC have just shown a big screen saying PRAY FOR MANCHESTER.
ffs if praying worked this wouldn't have happened
* Seriously, do prominent buildings now have terrorist attack memorial lights/projectors installed as standard? Or can you hire these at very short notice?
It has just occurred to me that the latter is the "no true Scotsman" fallacy at its finest. "No Scotsman would detonate a suicide bomb at a concert". "The bomber was wearing a kilt and swigging from a can of Irn Bru, and his last words were a shout of "Scots wha hae wi' Wallace bled"". "No *true* Scotsman..." Note to Scots PBers - I hope it is obvious that I say "Scotsman" because that is how the fallacy is typically illustrated.0 -
A sign of the times.Theuniondivvie said:
Edit: Seriously though, I do try to welcome posters on their first post.0 -
As a Mancunian I am appalled that my city has been attacked again. I am equally appalled, on this day that the GE has been suspended, is the fact that both BBC Victoria Derbyshire and SKY Kay Burley, are interviewing "Labour candidates" Lucy Powell and Graham Stringer. Both
interviewers making it quite clear they are "Labour" candidates. This is absolutely out of order.0 -
The lectern is in Downing Street.CarlottaVance said:SKY say PM statement imminent:
http://news.sky.com/watch-live0 -
No. Crime is crime. Motive is motive. Both exist but they do not overlap. They are not fluid.david_herdson said:
I'm not confusing them; I'm recognising that both exist. To simply state that "crime is crime" is to imply that there is no political element to the crime (or, for that matter, no social, economic or other aspects). Clearly there can be and, in cases like this, there is.GeoffM said:
Yes it is. Crime is crime. You are confusing the act with the motive.david_herdson said:
That's not true though, is it? It is political when those carrying it out intend it to be, and when the consequences of it have political ramifications.Sunil_Prasannan said:
"Crime is crime. It is NOT political!" - Maggie, 1981.YBarddCwsc said:The problem is that the terrorist act itself was political, so there is no real way it can be divorced form the day-to-day politics of the General Election, or the beliefs of the participants.
It’s very sad. The election was already depressing enough.
After a respite to allow tempers to cool, it seems completely inevitable that this terrorist act will become embroiled in the Election.
JackW is simply stating the logical conclusion & the consequences.
Down that route lies attempts at justification and mitigation.0 -
They are saying it in response to a statement he out out.RobD said:
Can't believe they are tagging Corbyn. Are they expecting him to agree?nunu said:I can't believe during my wobble I seriously thought about voting Labour. they need to be finished as a party:
https://twitter.com/Breacai/status/8668970374297559050 -
"Member of the public" is just a term used by lower middle class and middle class people, including when they are in junior official positions, in the police or wherever, to mean the hoi polloi, whom they consider to be rather like farm animals. Neither the prime minister nor any other member of the government is required to be an MP or a member of the House of Lords even when Parliament hasn't been dissolved. The government is the same government that it was before the dissolution, with the same membership and the same responsbilities. It isn't parliament that appoints the government.GIN1138 said:Thanks all.
I didn't actually know people stop being MP's when Parliament is dissolved.
So the government is actually a government of regular members of the public at the moment rather than MP's?
Theresa May is is Prime Minister as Theresa May (member of the public) rather than Theresa May May (MP) ?0 -
I am not going to argue over this today, but maybe a little bit of balance and reflection is in order?nunu said:
They are corbyn cultists, they joined the labour party and voted for him as leader twice, despite his past and present statements on terrorists. It goes to the heart of the current labour membership.murali_s said:
What's that got to do with the Labour party?nunu said:I can't believe during my wobble I seriously thought about voting Labour. they need to be finished as a party:
https://twitter.com/Breacai/status/8668970374297559050 -
Terrorist events should not be used to close down discussion.Peter_the_Punter said:
Time and a place though, isn't there, Jack?JackW said:
I am not arguing for voting for any political party but expressing my view on the significant implications of the event for Corbyn.IanB2 said:
I worry that you cannot see how seeking to use the murder of innocent teenagers, just hours after the event, the victims as yet unidentified and for reasons still unknown, to advance your argument for not voting for a particular party in the coming election is both seeking advantage and unworthy.JackW said:
My posts are clearly deliberate but perhaps you might clarify why they are "unworthy" and why I would "seek advantage" for a particular party?IanB2 said:Correct.
Your posts are deliberate and unworthy, and seek advantage. Whether they are based on truth, or not, is irrelevant. As I said.
Your original post has already attracted sufficient responses to indicate you are fighting a losing battle with this one.
This site exists for the discussion of such matters.
Immediate attempts to make political capital out of such distressing events are likely to be viewed with disdain.
You got dangerously close, my old cocker.
It's hardly a revelation that I do not support Jezza's Labour party. I have also been highly critical of the PM and Farron. I do however have a soft spot for Pope Paul Nuttall VC .... don't we all.
That said I feel I'm objective enough to cut through my well known view of Corbyn and be able to analyse critically the significant and wider implications of this event.0 -
snip0
-
Yeah, but that one was so clearly insidious you might have made an exception to the rule.RobD said:
A sign of the times.Theuniondivvie said:
Edit: Seriously though, I do try to welcome posters on their first post.0 -
In the world of social media morons it appears the Sinn Fein/SNP crossover supporters are just outdoing the Momentum Corbynites when it comes to being massive dickheads
0 -
Hm, fair enough!Peter_the_Punter said:
Yeah, but that one was so clearly insidious you might have made an exception to the rule.RobD said:
A sign of the times.Theuniondivvie said:
Edit: Seriously though, I do try to welcome posters on their first post.0 -
You can't use those twitter trolls as an argument against Labour anymore than you would be justified in saying Katie Hopkins' remarks mean you can't vote Tory.nunu said:I can't believe during my wobble I seriously thought about voting Labour. they need to be finished as a party:
https://twitter.com/Breacai/status/8668970374297559050 -
To be fair - it's a suicide attack which does imply that it's going to be Islamic terrorismRichard_Tyndall said:
Only if you equate terrorism directly with the Muslim faith which thankfully most people do not.Dura_Ace said:
How are they losing? The percentage of muslims in western states increases every year. That's winning.Slackbladder said:You know what, Trump's response to this is actually exactly right. These people are losers, and they need to be driven out of our society.
Edit: and even there I have allowed myself to be sucked into your mistake of immediately assuming the attacker was Muslim. That may well be the case but the assumption based on no evidence is also we.
I would also add last night I was saying "wait and see" so please don't assume i'm just wanting to apportion blame in a certain direction0 -
I wouldn't overworry it, the PM has de facto high visibility on days like today (It simply is). I doubt Derbyshire/Burley introducing Powell and Stringer as Labour candidate will make much odds.LadyBucket said:As a Mancunian I am appalled that my city has been attacked again. I am equally appalled, on this day that the GE has been suspended, is the fact that both BBC Victoria Derbyshire and SKY Kay Burley, are interviewing "Labour candidates" Lucy Powell and Graham Stringer. Both
interviewers making it quite clear they are "Labour" candidates. This is absolutely out of order.0 -
Nobody's trying to close down a discussion, Jack, but time, place, appropriateness and all that. Just thought your judgement was uncharacteristically off a little bit this morning.JackW said:
Terrorist events should not be used to close down discussion.Peter_the_Punter said:
Time and a place though, isn't there, Jack?JackW said:
I am not arguing for voting for any political party but expressing my view on the significant implications of the event for Corbyn.IanB2 said:
I worry that you cannot see how seeking to use the murder of innocent teenagers, just hours after the event, the victims as yet unidentified and for reasons still unknown, to advance your argument for not voting for a particular party in the coming election is both seeking advantage and unworthy.JackW said:
My posts are clearly deliberate but perhaps you might clarify why they are "unworthy" and why I would "seek advantage" for a particular party?IanB2 said:Correct.
Your posts are deliberate and unworthy, and seek advantage. Whether they are based on truth, or not, is irrelevant. As I said.
Your original post has already attracted sufficient responses to indicate you are fighting a losing battle with this one.
This site exists for the discussion of such matters.
Immediate attempts to make political capital out of such distressing events are likely to be viewed with disdain.
You got dangerously close, my old cocker.
It's hardly a revelation that I do not support Jezza's Labour party. I have also been highly critical of the PM and Farron. I do however have a soft spot for Pope Paul Nuttall VC .... don't we all.
That said I feel I'm objective enough to cut through my well known view of Corbyn and be able to analyse critically the significant and wider implications of this event.
Anyway, I shouldn't try to lecture someone of your age and standing. I'll leave it there.0 -
The banality/stupidity of assorted media.
"Mr Burnham, how are you going to get Manchester through this?"
Yeah, Manchester would be in complete disarray without its major. The eyes of the city are on him.
Deary me.0 -
Quite. We need to find his accomplices and lock them up for five years. It's the only language they understand.Richard_Nabavi said:In contrast to some of the recent terrorist incidents, this seems to have been quite a sophisticated attack; producing an 'improvised explosive device' capable of causing so much carnage but small enough to take into the foyer of a venue like this would not be easy. Whoever the murderer was, he must have been trained.
0 -
He's Manchesters' mayor, but yes Andy Street would be facing equally banal questions if the attack was within Birmingham.KentRising said:The banality/stupidity of assorted media.
"Mr Burnham, how are you going to get Manchester through this?"
Yeah, Manchester would be in complete disarray without its major. The eyes of the city are on him.
Deary me.0 -
Still, talk about a baptism of fire.KentRising said:The banality/stupidity of assorted media.
"Mr Burnham, how are you going to get Manchester through this?"
Yeah, Manchester would be in complete disarray without its major. The eyes of the city are on him.
Deary me.0 -
0
-
May speaking now0
-
Bollocks, this is the heart of Corbynism. I saw it in the university campuses a decade ago.Paristonda said:
You can't use those twitter trolls as an argument against Labour anymore than you would be justified in saying Katie Hopkins' remarks mean you can't vote Tory.nunu said:I can't believe during my wobble I seriously thought about voting Labour. they need to be finished as a party:
https://twitter.com/Breacai/status/8668970374297559050 -
I agree to an extent. Just Labour seem to have an awful lot more of them. People voting for Labour constituency MPs and old school socialists are both fine with me but there's a lot of particularly unpalatable Corbyn worshippers within Momentum that revel in conspiracy theories, hounding people with other views and spamming all social meida platforms with fake news and ill thought out rubbish. I would not want to associate myself with any of them.Paristonda said:
You can't use those twitter trolls as an argument against Labour anymore than you would be justified in saying Katie Hopkins' remarks mean you can't vote Tory.nunu said:I can't believe during my wobble I seriously thought about voting Labour. they need to be finished as a party:
https://twitter.com/Breacai/status/8668970374297559050 -
Identity of the bomber known!!!!0
-
Why so?Essexit said:
Still, talk about a baptism of fire.KentRising said:The banality/stupidity of assorted media.
"Mr Burnham, how are you going to get Manchester through this?"
Yeah, Manchester would be in complete disarray without its major. The eyes of the city are on him.
Deary me.
More people died at Mid Staffs hospital.0 -
It's not unusual for the young to disagree with their seniors ....Peter_the_Punter said:
Nobody's trying to close down a discussion, Jack, but time, place, appropriateness and all that. Just thought your judgement was uncharacteristically off a little bit this morning.JackW said:
Terrorist events should not be used to close down discussion.Peter_the_Punter said:
Time and a place though, isn't there, Jack?JackW said:
I am not arguing for voting for any political party but expressing my view on the significant implications of the event for Corbyn.IanB2 said:
I worry that you cannot see how seeking to use the murder of innocent teenagers, just hours after the event, the victims as yet unidentified and for reasons still unknown, to advance your argument for not voting for a particular party in the coming election is both seeking advantage and unworthy.JackW said:
My posts are clearly deliberate but perhaps you might clarify why they are "unworthy" and why I would "seek advantage" for a particular party?IanB2 said:Correct.
Your posts are deliberate and unworthy, and seek advantage. Whether they are based on truth, or not, is irrelevant. As I said.
Your original post has already attracted sufficient responses to indicate you are fighting a losing battle with this one.
This site exists for the discussion of such matters.
Immediate attempts to make political capital out of such distressing events are likely to be viewed with disdain.
You got dangerously close, my old cocker.
It's hardly a revelation that I do not support Jezza's Labour party. I have also been highly critical of the PM and Farron. I do however have a soft spot for Pope Paul Nuttall VC .... don't we all.
That said I feel I'm objective enough to cut through my well known view of Corbyn and be able to analyse critically the significant and wider implications of this event.
Anyway, I shouldn't try to lecture someone of your age and standing. I'll leave it there.
I understand some have misgivings about timing but you may be assured that up and down the land there are folk reflecting, musing and deciding upon the implications of this act of wickedness. And that will include those running political campaigns.0 -
Threat level not increased, yet0
-
Agreed.GeoffM said:
No. Crime is crime. Motive is motive. Both exist but they do not overlap. They are not fluid.david_herdson said:
I'm not confusing them; I'm recognising that both exist. To simply state that "crime is crime" is to imply that there is no political element to the crime (or, for that matter, no social, economic or other aspects). Clearly there can be and, in cases like this, there is.GeoffM said:
Yes it is. Crime is crime. You are confusing the act with the motive.david_herdson said:
That's not true though, is it? It is political when those carrying it out intend it to be, and when the consequences of it have political ramifications.Sunil_Prasannan said:
"Crime is crime. It is NOT political!" - Maggie, 1981.YBarddCwsc said:The problem is that the terrorist act itself was political, so there is no real way it can be divorced form the day-to-day politics of the General Election, or the beliefs of the participants.
It’s very sad. The election was already depressing enough.
After a respite to allow tempers to cool, it seems completely inevitable that this terrorist act will become embroiled in the Election.
JackW is simply stating the logical conclusion & the consequences.
Down that route lies attempts at justification and mitigation.0 -
Just to note: the police have not said that this was a suicide bombing (although they have said that a single attacker was carrying an IED, detonated it, and died at the arena), nor have they said that a nail bomb was used. Rather than getting categorised as a stupid response - and there have been many - the observation that some people may have died in a stampede, as also happened at the Bataclan in Paris, is thoroughly responsible. That that can happen should be made better known by the police and other public services. Better still, put soldiers at any large gathering of people. Defend this country. Bombing Raqqa and Mosul doesn't seem to be achieving much in that direction.0
-
Superb from May, simple as that.0
-
May channelling her internal Churchill0
-
Thanks All for the welcome, been a lurker for many years. Crap day to come out, but as I said, too close to home, again. They hold the concerts for kids at the Arena. Thousands of school children, every year;RobD said:
A sign of the times.Theuniondivvie said:
Edit: Seriously though, I do try to welcome posters on their first post.
http://www.manchester-arena.com/events/young-voices-2017/4839/
So many parents and children know and love this place, with amazing memories too. We all knew it as a safe place for the kids, now this. Heartbreaking. As parents we will remember.
0
