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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Looking at how undecided voters might vote in this general election, if they do vote.
Intro/ YouGov’s @adammcdonnell21 looks at undecided voters and how they are likely to vote https://t.co/V6mVf7uOQ4
Comments
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First, like Portugal last night.
Now I must go and clean my rabbit's litter tray...0 -
HSandyRentool said:O
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Not any more embarrassing than Fallon celebrating Assad's 99% election victory.SeanT said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5buQkE7rRQ0 -
There are three Conservative candidates I could not vote for:
David Tredinnick
Claire-Louise Leyland
Zac Goldsmith
Any other personal dislikes that would over-rule personal political preference out there?0 -
Definite Photoshop. No way Assad is that tall.SeanT said:0 -
The morning sofa discussion was a modest points win for Thornberry, and fair play to her for besting Fallon. But it takes the game onto ground that is utterly lethal for Labour.
I assume this was Fallon's job this morning.0 -
Not that I'm voting Ukip this time, but I'd have not liked to have been voting for Victoria Ayling or Louise Bours in 2015.rcs1000 said:There are three Conservative candidates I could not vote for:
David Tredinnick
Claire-Louise Leyland
Zac Goldsmith
Any other personal dislikes that would over-rule personal political preference out there?0 -
FPT:
Davis may be worried. Here he is trying to make himself unsackable:foxinsoxuk said:Fallon was rather poor, but rather more worrying was DD on Peston. He seems woefully underprepared for negotiations. Another one who will be out in the reshuffle?
It would be a good swap with Hammond. We need spreadsheet Phil with his eye for detail on the case, not amateur bluffers like Boris and Davis.
https://twitter.com/POLITICOEurope/status/8629464302977966080 -
FPT:
If people given a free chose decide to by a good, any good, including bleached chickens, that then demonstrates that is there preferred option, and to stop then buying it is wrong IMO.MTimT said:
Argentina, New Zealand and Australia. Looking forward to it.tyson said:
The Time's piece also indicated that in an austerity dominant environment, it is dawning on farmers that their subsidies might be slightly less important than say the NHS...as said, sating the bleeding obvious...RobD said:
The government aren't going to continue with agricultural subsidies? I find that hard to imagine.tyson said:Following Peter the Punter's rather gallant efforts to try and state the bleeding obvious to Brexit ideologies, I was struck by a Time's piece this week.
Farmers now are realising that Brexit is utterly disastrous...not only will they lose vital subsidies and access to migrant Labour but they will be left completely exposed to the harshness of a market where standards outside the EU are piss poor...I could almost feel sorry for them if it wasn't for the fact that many of them supported Brexit, or like slaughtering wildlife, or both.....
Anyway the moral of the story is that we are dealing with morons who have no capacity for cognitive or intellectual debate such is their blind ideological prejudice....Brexit in a nutshell....
The good thing for free marketeers is that we will be able to flood our supermarkets with cheap meat from god knows where....
Oh! And I nearly forgot the bleached chickens from the US.
You may not like Bleached chickens, I may not like bleached chickens but we do not have the right to stop others buying bleached chickens.0 -
I agree. But I think you'll find yourself in a small minority (basically Richard Tyndall, yourself and me) if you plan to remove all restrictions on how food sold in this country is prepared.BigRich said:FPT:
If people given a free chose decide to by a good, any good, including bleached chickens, that then demonstrates that is there preferred option, and to stop then buying it is wrong IMO.MTimT said:
Argentina, New Zealand and Australia. Looking forward to it.tyson said:
The Time's piece also indicated that in an austerity dominant environment, it is dawning on farmers that their subsidies might be slightly less important than say the NHS...as said, sating the bleeding obvious...RobD said:
The government aren't going to continue with agricultural subsidies? I find that hard to imagine.tyson said:Following Peter the Punter's rather gallant efforts to try and state the bleeding obvious to Brexit ideologies, I was struck by a Time's piece this week.
Farmers now are realising that Brexit is utterly disastrous...not only will they lose vital subsidies and access to migrant Labour but they will be left completely exposed to the harshness of a market where standards outside the EU are piss poor...I could almost feel sorry for them if it wasn't for the fact that many of them supported Brexit, or like slaughtering wildlife, or both.....
Anyway the moral of the story is that we are dealing with morons who have no capacity for cognitive or intellectual debate such is their blind ideological prejudice....Brexit in a nutshell....
The good thing for free marketeers is that we will be able to flood our supermarkets with cheap meat from god knows where....
Oh! And I nearly forgot the bleached chickens from the US.
You may not like Bleached chickens, I may not like bleached chickens but we do not have the right to stop others buying bleached chickens.0 -
Fallon's trip was six years before Ghouta. It's a little different from Corbyn supporting the IRA when they were bombing Britain.surbiton said:
Not any more embarrassing than Fallon celebrating Assad's 99% election victory.SeanT said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5buQkE7rRQ
Fallon is a bit crap to not be able to point this out.0 -
I think that's perfectly understandable :-).Pulpstar said:
This time round:rcs1000 said:There are three Conservative candidates I could not vote for:
David Tredinnick
Claire-Louise Leyland
Zac Goldsmith
Any other personal dislikes that would over-rule personal political preference out there?
If he'd been selected and ran. David Ward.0 -
He has met so many dictators and terrorists you could create a seriously thick photo album.SeanT said:Ooops
twitter.com/Accswaby/status/8636828524912312320 -
Google image search says hello to the Photoshop theory. Same photo in the Times last Octoberpeter_from_putney said:
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/palestinian-lobby-group-paid-for-corbyn-to-meet-assad-in-syria-jv5hrsjfl0 -
I couldn't vote for Anna Soubry.rcs1000 said:There are three Conservative candidates I could not vote for:
David Tredinnick
Claire-Louise Leyland
Zac Goldsmith
Any other personal dislikes that would over-rule personal political preference out there?0 -
"Jeremy Corbyn accepted a free trip to meet President Assad of Syria funded by the Palestinian lobbyists who organised an event this week at which Jews were blamed for the Holocaust."Ishmael_Z said:
Google image search says hello to the Photoshop theory. Same photo in the Times last Octoberpeter_from_putney said:
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/palestinian-lobby-group-paid-for-corbyn-to-meet-assad-in-syria-jv5hrsjfl
Judge a man by the friends they keep...
I have seen politicians lose their job for far less than this.0 -
Who are we talking about ? The Queen or Prince Charles ?FrancisUrquhart said:
He has met so many dictators and terrorists you could create a seriously thick photo album.SeanT said:Ooops
twitter.com/Accswaby/status/8636828524912312320 -
I watched the whole of the Robert Peston interview with David Davis, as linked to on his twitter feed on the previous thread.
I don't know how he's concluded "Brexit talks will be in meltdown as early as this Summer" from what seemed a perfectly reasonable and good natured interview to me.
My impression was that David Davis seems confident and well on top of his brief.0 -
Joke all you like, but he is a cancer in the labour party and the sooner he is removed the better. Corbyn is pure filth with his support for terrorist and extremists.surbiton said:
Who are we talking about ? The Queen or Prince Charles ?FrancisUrquhart said:
He has met so many dictators and terrorists you could create a seriously thick photo album.SeanT said:Ooops
twitter.com/Accswaby/status/8636828524912312320 -
Agree with that. I'd have no idea what to do in that constituency.Casino_Royale said:
I couldn't vote for Anna Soubry.rcs1000 said:There are three Conservative candidates I could not vote for:
David Tredinnick
Claire-Louise Leyland
Zac Goldsmith
Any other personal dislikes that would over-rule personal political preference out there?0 -
FPT
I am not against bleached chickens, but many in the EU seem to be, to the extent they coined this phrase. In essence, chickens are not bleached, but dipped in a very weak solution of bleach for about 60 seconds to kill bacteria on the skin after plucking. There is no residual bleach in the chicken, nor any recorded health effects. But, of course, that does not stop the EU from refusing to import them.BigRich said:
If people given a free chose decide to by a good, any good, including bleached chickens, that then demonstrates that is there preferred option, and to stop then buying it is wrong IMO.
You may not like Bleached chickens, I may not like bleached chickens but we do not have the right to stop others buying bleached chickens.
Personally, I don't buy them. We get all our meat directly from local farms. The chickens actually taste of chicken, unlike the puffed up items you can buy in the supermarkets.0 -
A tory peer shaking hands with the butcher. Tsk.SeanT said:0 -
A witticism which only works because Her Majesty is so often referred to as "He".surbiton said:
Who are we talking about ? The Queen or Prince Charles ?FrancisUrquhart said:
He has met so many dictators and terrorists you could create a seriously thick photo album.SeanT said:Ooops
twitter.com/Accswaby/status/8636828524912312320 -
Assad looks the same there as he does in every other photo of him, very tall and skinny.rcs1000 said:
Definite Photoshop. No way Assad is that tall.SeanT said:
https://dxczjjuegupb.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Selection_0431.png0 -
Had to do a double-take there. Thought it said rabbi ...SandyRentool said:First, like Portugal last night.
Now I must go and clean my rabbit's litter tray...
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Same for me. She is a disgraceful person.Casino_Royale said:
I couldn't vote for Anna Soubry.rcs1000 said:There are three Conservative candidates I could not vote for:
David Tredinnick
Claire-Louise Leyland
Zac Goldsmith
Any other personal dislikes that would over-rule personal political preference out there?0 -
What sort of loon do you have to be to claim NATO is a threat to world peace.
Step forward Jezbollah Corbyn.
Standing up for anti Western forces for a very long time.0 -
It took ages to house-train our rabbi.MTimT said:
Had to do a double-take there. Thought it said rabbi ...SandyRentool said:First, like Portugal last night.
Now I must go and clean my rabbit's litter tray...0 -
I'd struggle to vote for Maria Miller or Ben Howlett.Casino_Royale said:
I couldn't vote for Anna Soubry.rcs1000 said:There are three Conservative candidates I could not vote for:
David Tredinnick
Claire-Louise Leyland
Zac Goldsmith
Any other personal dislikes that would over-rule personal political preference out there?0 -
Fair go, but if we impose animal welfare standards on our own farmers but allow the import of foodstuffs that have been produced under lower standards, and thus at a lower cost, who benefits?BigRich said:FPT:
If people given a free chose decide to by a good, any good, including bleached chickens, that then demonstrates that is there preferred option, and to stop then buying it is wrong IMO.MTimT said:
Argentina, New Zealand and Australia. Looking forward to it.tyson said:
The Time's piece also indicated that in an austerity dominant environment, it is dawning on farmers that their subsidies might be slightly less important than say the NHS...as said, sating the bleeding obvious...RobD said:
The government aren't going to continue with agricultural subsidies? I find that hard to imagine.tyson said:Following Peter the Punter's rather gallant efforts to try and state the bleeding obvious to Brexit ideologies, I was struck by a Time's piece this week.
Farmers now are realising that Brexit is utterly disastrous...not only will they lose vital subsidies and access to migrant Labour but they will be left completely exposed to the harshness of a market where standards outside the EU are piss poor...I could almost feel sorry for them if it wasn't for the fact that many of them supported Brexit, or like slaughtering wildlife, or both.....
Anyway the moral of the story is that we are dealing with morons who have no capacity for cognitive or intellectual debate such is their blind ideological prejudice....Brexit in a nutshell....
The good thing for free marketeers is that we will be able to flood our supermarkets with cheap meat from god knows where....
Oh! And I nearly forgot the bleached chickens from the US.
You may not like Bleached chickens, I may not like bleached chickens but we do not have the right to stop others buying bleached chickens.
That is exactly what happened with pork. The EU eventually came up with a regime to abolish some horrendously cruel practices. The UK adopted them at once, and added a bit of gold plating, and forced our farmers to comply forthwith. The Dutch and the Danes were allowed a few years grace (and still haven't fully complied). The result, I couldn't find British pork or bacon in the supermarkets, British farmers were forced out of business and the UK TaxPayer lost out.
One would hope that leaving the EU will allow the UK government to enforce a level playing field as regards what gets imported into the UK. Livestock, bred, reared and slaughtered in conditions that would not be acceptable in the UK should be the first example giving our own farmers a chance (going to piss off quite a few Kiwis if we do, mind).0 -
Yes, I agree. Peston's tweet was extradionary, given David Davis came across as perfectly reasonable and confident. But then Peston is an arch-remainer.Casino_Royale said:I watched the whole of the Robert Peston interview with David Davis, as linked to on his twitter feed on the previous thread.
I don't know how he's concluded "Brexit talks will be in meltdown as early as this Summer" from what seemed a perfectly reasonable and good natured interview to me.
My impression was that David Davis seems confident and well on top of his brief.
David Davis made the point that the EU slows down considerably during the summer months, therefore, he and his team can get a lot more work done.
0 -
Kate Hoey.rcs1000 said:There are three Conservative candidates I could not vote for:
David Tredinnick
Claire-Louise Leyland
Zac Goldsmith
Any other personal dislikes that would over-rule personal political preference out there?0 -
Thanks for that Tim,MTimT said:FPT
I am not against bleached chickens, but many in the EU seem to be, to the extent they coined this phrase. In essence, chickens are not bleached, but dipped in a very weak solution of bleach for about 60 seconds to kill bacteria on the skin after plucking. There is no residual bleach in the chicken, nor any recorded health effects. But, of course, that does not stop the EU from refusing to import them.BigRich said:
If people given a free chose decide to by a good, any good, including bleached chickens, that then demonstrates that is there preferred option, and to stop then buying it is wrong IMO.
You may not like Bleached chickens, I may not like bleached chickens but we do not have the right to stop others buying bleached chickens.
Personally, I don't buy them. We get all our meat directly from local farms. The chickens actually taste of chicken, unlike the puffed up items you can buy in the supermarkets.
I really am not bothered by what other people chose to eat and put in there body's, and find it hard to understand people who think they have the right to limit, my or anybody chose of what to eat.
I think with chicken you often get what you pay for and local food can be some of the best, but I don't clame to be much of an expert.
Why do we have the ban on Bleached chicken? I don't know the history but I suspect if was a lobbying effort by one or more special business interests, that has managed to find a scary sounding name for there competitors product 'bleached chicken' and manipulate well meaning but naïve presser groups to oppose it.0 -
I quite like her.SandyRentool said:
Kate Hoey.rcs1000 said:There are three Conservative candidates I could not vote for:
David Tredinnick
Claire-Louise Leyland
Zac Goldsmith
Any other personal dislikes that would over-rule personal political preference out there?
I would've really struggled to vote for Danczuk, if he was running again.0 -
If we are floor-crossing here, then my vote for her would count out your abstench.SandyRentool said:
Kate Hoey.rcs1000 said:There are three Conservative candidates I could not vote for:
David Tredinnick
Claire-Louise Leyland
Zac Goldsmith
Any other personal dislikes that would over-rule personal political preference out there?0 -
Our priest was no better. That's what made me an atheist. And a rabbit owner.GeoffM said:
It took ages to house-train our rabbi.MTimT said:
Had to do a double-take there. Thought it said rabbi ...SandyRentool said:First, like Portugal last night.
Now I must go and clean my rabbit's litter tray...0 -
Any poll gurus out there? Looking at the ORB tables and it seems as though UKIP were on 6, rather than the 7 reported by the Telegraph (and now on the wiki)
http://www.orb-international.com/perch/resources/orb-the-telegraph-10-11-may-.pdf0 -
I can't imagine that Peston did himself any favours this morning in terms of the Government's Brexit team making themselves readily available for interview on ITV.LadyBucket said:
Yes, I agree. Peston's tweet was extradionary, given David Davis came across as perfectly reasonable and confident. But then Peston is an arch-remainer.Casino_Royale said:I watched the whole of the Robert Peston interview with David Davis, as linked to on his twitter feed on the previous thread.
I don't know how he's concluded "Brexit talks will be in meltdown as early as this Summer" from what seemed a perfectly reasonable and good natured interview to me.
My impression was that David Davis seems confident and well on top of his brief.
David Davis made the point that the EU slows down considerably during the summer months, therefore, he and his team can get a lot more work done.0 -
There's plenty of British pork and bacon, it's just migrated to high end quality and leaves the cheap shit for the Danes. The world of dry cure, cook in a dry pan and fry your egg in the resultant bacon fat is entirely British. Vile cheap crap that exudes white gunge when cooled and hideous animal welfare is for the Continent.HurstLlama said:
Fair go, but if we impose animal welfare standards on our own farmers but allow the import of foodstuffs that have been produced under lower standards, and thus at a lower cost, who benefits?
That is exactly what happened with pork. The EU eventually came up with a regime to abolish some horrendously cruel practices. The UK adopted them at once, and added a bit of gold plating, and forced our farmers to comply forthwith. The Dutch and the Danes were allowed a few years grace (and still haven't fully complied). The result, I couldn't find British pork or bacon in the supermarkets, British farmers were forced out of business and the UK TaxPayer lost out.
One would hope that leaving the EU will allow the UK government to enforce a level playing field as regards what gets imported into the UK. Livestock, bred, reared and slaughtered in conditions that would not be acceptable in the UK should be the first example giving our own farmers a chance (going to piss off quite a few Kiwis if we do, mind).
I can recommend "Cure and Simple" who have struck upon the simply genius idea of a British bacon home delivery service at a reasonable price.0 -
I'm going to click LIKE on the sentiment here.BigRich said:
Thanks for that Tim,MTimT said:FPT
I am not against bleached chickens, but many in the EU seem to be, to the extent they coined this phrase. In essence, chickens are not bleached, but dipped in a very weak solution of bleach for about 60 seconds to kill bacteria on the skin after plucking. There is no residual bleach in the chicken, nor any recorded health effects. But, of course, that does not stop the EU from refusing to import them.BigRich said:
If people given a free chose decide to by a good, any good, including bleached chickens, that then demonstrates that is there preferred option, and to stop then buying it is wrong IMO.
You may not like Bleached chickens, I may not like bleached chickens but we do not have the right to stop others buying bleached chickens.
Personally, I don't buy them. We get all our meat directly from local farms. The chickens actually taste of chicken, unlike the puffed up items you can buy in the supermarkets.
I really am not bothered by what other people chose to eat and put in there body's, and find it hard to understand people who think they have the right to limit, my or anybody chose of what to eat.
I think with chicken you often get what you pay for and local food can be some of the best, but I don't clame to be much of an expert.
Why do we have the ban on Bleached chicken? I don't know the history but I suspect if was a lobbying effort by one or more special business interests, that has managed to find a scary sounding name for there competitors product 'bleached chicken' and manipulate well meaning but naïve presser groups to oppose it.0 -
why is Ms Soubry disliked.. because she ousted NPEXMP? or because she is a remainer?0
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I really find it hard to believe that Assad is responsible for all the bad things that are layed at his door. Just look at him. Of course his regime may well be, but I'd bet he doesn't know the truth (fool if he's in that position of course).rcs1000 said:
Definite Photoshop. No way Assad is that tall.SeanT said:
SimonStClare's photo of him with Putin is the same. Putin on the other hand... I'm sure his regime doesn't know..
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That presumes they haven't already been working. The Irish already have an exhaustive playbook with every major avenue wargamed out. They are sitting twiddling their thumbs waiting for us to come to the table.LadyBucket said:
Yes, I agree. Peston's tweet was extradionary, given David Davis came across as perfectly reasonable and confident. But then Peston is an arch-remainer.Casino_Royale said:I watched the whole of the Robert Peston interview with David Davis, as linked to on his twitter feed on the previous thread.
I don't know how he's concluded "Brexit talks will be in meltdown as early as this Summer" from what seemed a perfectly reasonable and good natured interview to me.
My impression was that David Davis seems confident and well on top of his brief.
David Davis made the point that the EU slows down considerably during the summer months, therefore, he and his team can get a lot more work done.0 -
FPT "Ending the handouts for environmentally destructive farming practices was one of the reasons I voted Leave." - the EU ended them in 2003 when it phased out crop subsidies in favour of the Single Farm Payment which explicitly prioritises preservation of the environment.SandyRentool said:
Our priest was no better. That's what made me an atheist. And a rabbit owner.GeoffM said:
It took ages to house-train our rabbi.MTimT said:
Had to do a double-take there. Thought it said rabbi ...SandyRentool said:First, like Portugal last night.
Now I must go and clean my rabbit's litter tray...0 -
I think he made some decent points, particularly on linking Northern Ireland with agreed trade arrangements. He is flat wrong, however, on his suggestion that we will have a comprehensive trade agreement in place by the time we Brexit. There is no allowance in the EU position for one. Which means everything will hang on the "transition arrangements" - really partial and temporary extensions of the status quo, which he didn't mention at all and which make moot everything else he talked about.Casino_Royale said:I watched the whole of the Robert Peston interview with David Davis, as linked to on his twitter feed on the previous thread.
I don't know how he's concluded "Brexit talks will be in meltdown as early as this Summer" from what seemed a perfectly reasonable and good natured interview to me.
My impression was that David Davis seems confident and well on top of his brief.0 -
Any ideas what kind of results we can expect in Chingford ? Duncan-Smith's constituency.0
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To be fair, before I googled it I was going to say that the head of what I now know to be Lord Sheikh was the most incompetent cut and paste job I had ever seen.SeanT said:
The photo is real.Richard_Tyndall said:0 -
I think it’s more to do with her overly emotive outbursts and blubbing.SquareRoot said:why is Ms Soubry disliked.. because she ousted NPEXMP? or because she is a remainer?
0 -
The bleached chickens will not be labelled as such.BigRich said:FPT:
If people given a free chose decide to by a good, any good, including bleached chickens, that then demonstrates that is there preferred option, and to stop then buying it is wrong IMO.MTimT said:
Argentina, New Zealand and Australia. Looking forward to it.tyson said:
The Time's piece also indicated that in an austerity dominant environment, it is dawning on farmers that their subsidies might be slightly less important than say the NHS...as said, sating the bleeding obvious...RobD said:
The government aren't going to continue with agricultural subsidies? I find that hard to imagine.tyson said:Following Peter the Punter's rather gallant efforts to try and state the bleeding obvious to Brexit ideologies, I was struck by a Time's piece this week.
Farmers now are realising that Brexit is utterly disastrous...not only will they lose vital subsidies and access to migrant Labour but they will be left completely exposed to the harshness of a market where standards outside the EU are piss poor...I could almost feel sorry for them if it wasn't for the fact that many of them supported Brexit, or like slaughtering wildlife, or both.....
Anyway the moral of the story is that we are dealing with morons who have no capacity for cognitive or intellectual debate such is their blind ideological prejudice....Brexit in a nutshell....
The good thing for free marketeers is that we will be able to flood our supermarkets with cheap meat from god knows where....
Oh! And I nearly forgot the bleached chickens from the US.
You may not like Bleached chickens, I may not like bleached chickens but we do not have the right to stop others buying bleached chickens.
The issue is faecal contamination. Bleach is just a cover up for poor slaughterline technique. Killing lines in US slaughterhouses work at about twice the speed of European ones, and this leads to significantly more contamination from gut faecal bacteria. The bleach rinse helps with surface contamination but not with deeper contamination. It is a way of cheating the test. The same is true of US beef, which should be avoided rare particularly ground.
http://www.pcrm.org/health/reports/fecal-contamination-in-retail-chicken-products0 -
As with so much of the EU, it hasn't worked.Ishmael_Z said:
FPT "Ending the handouts for environmentally destructive farming practices was one of the reasons I voted Leave." - the EU ended them in 2003 when it phased out crop subsidies in favour of the Single Farm Payment which explicitly prioritises preservation of the environment.SandyRentool said:
Our priest was no better. That's what made me an atheist. And a rabbit owner.GeoffM said:
It took ages to house-train our rabbi.MTimT said:
Had to do a double-take there. Thought it said rabbi ...SandyRentool said:First, like Portugal last night.
Now I must go and clean my rabbit's litter tray...0 -
Perhaps I'm misreading the table but it appears to round up to 7%. Incidentally, I find this rounding up a nuisance when it comes to inputting shares of the vote for the various parties into Electoral Calculus' predictor. If this results in the sum being one integer too high it rejects the data and one then has to start playing around with the numbers until it accepts them.RobD said:Any poll gurus out there? Looking at the ORB tables and it seems as though UKIP were on 6, rather than the 7 reported by the Telegraph (and now on the wiki)
http://www.orb-international.com/perch/resources/orb-the-telegraph-10-11-may-.pdf0 -
Because she is a very dislikable person with a personality that rubs many people the wrong way.SquareRoot said:why is Ms Soubry disliked.. because she ousted NPEXMP? or because she is a remainer?
0 -
Ah, for the table they truncated (say) 6.8% to 6?peter_from_putney said:
Perhaps I'm misreading the table but it appears to round up to 7%. Incidentally, I find this rounding up a nuisance when it comes to inputting shares of the vote for the various parties into Electoral Calculus' predictor. If this results in the sum being one integer too high it rejects the data and one then has to start playing around with the numbers until it accepts them.RobD said:Any poll gurus out there? Looking at the ORB tables and it seems as though UKIP were on 6, rather than the 7 reported by the Telegraph (and now on the wiki)
http://www.orb-international.com/perch/resources/orb-the-telegraph-10-11-may-.pdf0 -
If anyone was wondering what The Ghost of Jeremy Corbyn would look like...SeanT said:
if he were a Butlins Redcoat!0 -
I dislike her attitude and behaviour, and there is barely a Conservative thing about her.SquareRoot said:why is Ms Soubry disliked.. because she ousted NPEXMP? or because she is a remainer?
0 -
DIYAlistair said:There's plenty of British pork and bacon, it's just migrated to high end quality and leaves the cheap shit for the Danes. The world of dry cure, cook in a dry pan and fry your egg in the resultant bacon fat is entirely British. Vile cheap crap that exudes white gunge when cooled and hideous animal welfare is for the Continent.
I can recommend "Cure and Simple" who have struck upon the simply genius idea of a British bacon home delivery service at a reasonable price.
https://www.rossandrossfood.co.uk/product/homemade-curing-kit-bacon/0 -
George Osborne?Sean_F said:
I'd struggle to vote for Maria Miller or Ben Howlett.Casino_Royale said:
I couldn't vote for Anna Soubry.rcs1000 said:There are three Conservative candidates I could not vote for:
David Tredinnick
Claire-Louise Leyland
Zac Goldsmith
Any other personal dislikes that would over-rule personal political preference out there?0 -
Which way do I vote ? For the policies which I support - but promoted by inadequate leaders - or for competent leaders - but promoting policies with which I disagree. Assad may be seen as a 'strong' leader - but I am more than hesitant about his policies. So - should weak leadership - but acceptable (or even desirable) policies win the day ?0
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Seems like work to me.Scott_P said:
DIYAlistair said:There's plenty of British pork and bacon, it's just migrated to high end quality and leaves the cheap shit for the Danes. The world of dry cure, cook in a dry pan and fry your egg in the resultant bacon fat is entirely British. Vile cheap crap that exudes white gunge when cooled and hideous animal welfare is for the Continent.
I can recommend "Cure and Simple" who have struck upon the simply genius idea of a British bacon home delivery service at a reasonable price.
https://www.rossandrossfood.co.uk/product/homemade-curing-kit-bacon/0 -
Peston has his own memes into which his interviews must fit.LadyBucket said:
Yes, I agree. Peston's tweet was extradionary, given David Davis came across as perfectly reasonable and confident. But then Peston is an arch-remainer.Casino_Royale said:I watched the whole of the Robert Peston interview with David Davis, as linked to on his twitter feed on the previous thread.
I don't know how he's concluded "Brexit talks will be in meltdown as early as this Summer" from what seemed a perfectly reasonable and good natured interview to me.
My impression was that David Davis seems confident and well on top of his brief.
David Davis made the point that the EU slows down considerably during the summer months, therefore, he and his team can get a lot more work done.0 -
One of the few sensible decisions out of Brussels in the last 15 years. (Of course, abolishing farm subsidies altogether would have been better.)Ishmael_Z said:
FPT "Ending the handouts for environmentally destructive farming practices was one of the reasons I voted Leave." - the EU ended them in 2003 when it phased out crop subsidies in favour of the Single Farm Payment which explicitly prioritises preservation of the environment.SandyRentool said:
Our priest was no better. That's what made me an atheist. And a rabbit owner.GeoffM said:
It took ages to house-train our rabbi.MTimT said:
Had to do a double-take there. Thought it said rabbi ...SandyRentool said:First, like Portugal last night.
Now I must go and clean my rabbit's litter tray...0 -
Which specific destructive farming practice do you object to the EU subsidising?SandyRentool said:
As with so much of the EU, it hasn't worked.Ishmael_Z said:
FPT "Ending the handouts for environmentally destructive farming practices was one of the reasons I voted Leave." - the EU ended them in 2003 when it phased out crop subsidies in favour of the Single Farm Payment which explicitly prioritises preservation of the environment.SandyRentool said:
Our priest was no better. That's what made me an atheist. And a rabbit owner.GeoffM said:
It took ages to house-train our rabbi.MTimT said:
Had to do a double-take there. Thought it said rabbi ...SandyRentool said:First, like Portugal last night.
Now I must go and clean my rabbit's litter tray...0 -
Oh come on, Junius. Assad stands for strong and stable government.junius said:Which way do I vote ? For the policies which I support - but promoted by inadequate leaders - or for competent leaders - but promoting policies with which I disagree. Assad may be seen as a 'strong' leader - but I am more than hesitant about his policies. So - should weak leadership - but acceptable (or even desirable) policies win the day ?
What more could you want?0 -
Here's the thing: FTAs these days are all about abolishing non-tariff barriers. You can have that FTA with the US, but you can't require that US food coming into the UK is subject to the same requirements as food from here.HurstLlama said:Fair go, but if we impose animal welfare standards on our own farmers but allow the import of foodstuffs that have been produced under lower standards, and thus at a lower cost, who benefits?
That is exactly what happened with pork. The EU eventually came up with a regime to abolish some horrendously cruel practices. The UK adopted them at once, and added a bit of gold plating, and forced our farmers to comply forthwith. The Dutch and the Danes were allowed a few years grace (and still haven't fully complied). The result, I couldn't find British pork or bacon in the supermarkets, British farmers were forced out of business and the UK TaxPayer lost out.
One would hope that leaving the EU will allow the UK government to enforce a level playing field as regards what gets imported into the UK. Livestock, bred, reared and slaughtered in conditions that would not be acceptable in the UK should be the first example giving our own farmers a chance (going to piss off quite a few Kiwis if we do, mind).0 -
It may not have worked, but it has happened (which was my point).SandyRentool said:
As with so much of the EU, it hasn't worked.Ishmael_Z said:
FPT "Ending the handouts for environmentally destructive farming practices was one of the reasons I voted Leave." - the EU ended them in 2003 when it phased out crop subsidies in favour of the Single Farm Payment which explicitly prioritises preservation of the environment.SandyRentool said:
Our priest was no better. That's what made me an atheist. And a rabbit owner.GeoffM said:
It took ages to house-train our rabbi.MTimT said:
Had to do a double-take there. Thought it said rabbi ...SandyRentool said:First, like Portugal last night.
Now I must go and clean my rabbit's litter tray...
0 -
You don't know her very well.timmo said:
Why Claire?rcs1000 said:There are three Conservative candidates I could not vote for:
David Tredinnick
Claire-Louise Leyland
Zac Goldsmith
Any other personal dislikes that would over-rule personal political preference out there?
I have always found her very pleasant0 -
To be fair there is a certain amount of instability in Syria!Peter_the_Punter said:
Oh come on, Junius. Assad stands for strong and stable government.junius said:Which way do I vote ? For the policies which I support - but promoted by inadequate leaders - or for competent leaders - but promoting policies with which I disagree. Assad may be seen as a 'strong' leader - but I am more than hesitant about his policies. So - should weak leadership - but acceptable (or even desirable) policies win the day ?
What more could you want?0 -
IDS is a Tory I would find it very hard to vote for. He really was the Tory Corbyn, causing endless problems for his own side for decades and then winning the leadership out of the blue. At least the Tories had the good sense to get rid of him before an election.0
-
Strong and stable sounds great.Peter_the_Punter said:
Oh come on, Junius. Assad stands for strong and stable government.junius said:Which way do I vote ? For the policies which I support - but promoted by inadequate leaders - or for competent leaders - but promoting policies with which I disagree. Assad may be seen as a 'strong' leader - but I am more than hesitant about his policies. So - should weak leadership - but acceptable (or even desirable) policies win the day ?
What more could you want?0 -
Over grazing of upland areas.rcs1000 said:
Which specific destructive farming practice do you object to the EU subsidising?SandyRentool said:
As with so much of the EU, it hasn't worked.Ishmael_Z said:
FPT "Ending the handouts for environmentally destructive farming practices was one of the reasons I voted Leave." - the EU ended them in 2003 when it phased out crop subsidies in favour of the Single Farm Payment which explicitly prioritises preservation of the environment.SandyRentool said:
Our priest was no better. That's what made me an atheist. And a rabbit owner.GeoffM said:
It took ages to house-train our rabbi.MTimT said:
Had to do a double-take there. Thought it said rabbi ...SandyRentool said:First, like Portugal last night.
Now I must go and clean my rabbit's litter tray...0 -
Price support encouraging over-intensive farming and with it leaching of added chemicals into watercourses.SandyRentool said:
Over grazing of upland areas.rcs1000 said:
Which specific destructive farming practice do you object to the EU subsidising?SandyRentool said:
As with so much of the EU, it hasn't worked.Ishmael_Z said:
FPT "Ending the handouts for environmentally destructive farming practices was one of the reasons I voted Leave." - the EU ended them in 2003 when it phased out crop subsidies in favour of the Single Farm Payment which explicitly prioritises preservation of the environment.SandyRentool said:
Our priest was no better. That's what made me an atheist. And a rabbit owner.GeoffM said:
It took ages to house-train our rabbi.MTimT said:
Had to do a double-take there. Thought it said rabbi ...SandyRentool said:First, like Portugal last night.
Now I must go and clean my rabbit's litter tray...0 -
Thanks for the information on the Pig industry,HurstLlama said:
Fair go, but if we impose animal welfare standards on our own farmers but allow the import of foodstuffs that have been produced under lower standards, and thus at a lower cost, who benefits?BigRich said:FPT:
If people given a free chose decide to by a good, any good, including bleached chickens, that then demonstrates that is there preferred option, and to stop then buying it is wrong IMO.MTimT said:
Argentina, New Zealand and Australia. Looking forward to it.tyson said:
Oh! And I nearly forgot the bleached chickens from the US.
You may not like Bleached chickens, I may not like bleached chickens but we do not have the right to stop others buying bleached chickens.
That is exactly what happened with pork. The EU eventually came up with a regime to abolish some horrendously cruel practices. The UK adopted them at once, and added a bit of gold plating, and forced our farmers to comply forthwith. The Dutch and the Danes were allowed a few years grace (and still haven't fully complied). The result, I couldn't find British pork or bacon in the supermarkets, British farmers were forced out of business and the UK TaxPayer lost out.
One would hope that leaving the EU will allow the UK government to enforce a level playing field as regards what gets imported into the UK. Livestock, bred, reared and slaughtered in conditions that would not be acceptable in the UK should be the first example giving our own farmers a chance (going to piss off quite a few Kiwis if we do, mind).
And Yes, a lot of the damage has been done by the UK government 'gold plating' EU rules for no good reason, (hopefully we can sack 90% + of the people who work in the ministry of Agriculture.)
Animal welfare is, clearly a big issue for some people, and I recognise that. But
1) Not all Agriculture is Animals, This can and should be open to free markets.
2) Concern for Animals should not be used as an excuse to transfer wealth though (subsidies and arterially high food prises) from the poor to the (reliantly) rich farmers.
Personally I don't see why we cant let farmers farm with the methods they want and then have those methods listed at the shop, so that each person can chose what standards he wants their food prepared under. you want hand reard chicken you buy hand reard chicken, you want battery chicken you buy battery chicken and so on.0 -
For the reverse of this, politicians who I'd "cross the floor" to vote for....Danny565 said:
I quite like her.SandyRentool said:
Kate Hoey.rcs1000 said:There are three Conservative candidates I could not vote for:
David Tredinnick
Claire-Louise Leyland
Zac Goldsmith
Any other personal dislikes that would over-rule personal political preference out there?
I would've really struggled to vote for Danczuk, if he was running again.
I'd vote for Sarah Wollaston if I was in her constituency. Maybe Heidi Allen too.
On the LDs side, probably Norman Lamb because I like what he's done on mental health. I quite like John Pugh in Southport too. Then again, I'd probably be voting LibDem if I was in any Tory/LD marginal this time (whereas I would've been too petty to do that in 2015).0 -
The problem with abolishing agricultural subsidies is that farming is a marginally profitable business with long lead time and high capital outlay. This is particularly so for intensive as opposed to artisanal or subsistence farmers.rcs1000 said:
One of the few sensible decisions out of Brussels in the last 15 years. (Of course, abolishing farm subsidies altogether would have been better.)Ishmael_Z said:
FPT "Ending the handouts for environmentally destructive farming practices was one of the reasons I voted Leave." - the EU ended them in 2003 when it phased out crop subsidies in favour of the Single Farm Payment which explicitly prioritises preservation of the environment.SandyRentool said:
Our priest was no better. That's what made me an atheist. And a rabbit owner.GeoffM said:
It took ages to house-train our rabbi.MTimT said:
Had to do a double-take there. Thought it said rabbi ...SandyRentool said:First, like Portugal last night.
Now I must go and clean my rabbit's litter tray...
A small drop in price can mean bankrupcy. It is why almost all countries in the world have some method of price support. NZ is an unusual case in point, but is blessed with some of the best agricultural land in the world and a very reliable climate, so is a low cost producer. As NZ exports nearly no minerals or manufactures the government felt it untenable to tax agricultural produce to subsidise its own production. Agriculture is a much bigger part of their economy.0 -
0
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Yes you can, if that's your priority in the negotiations, and you are prepared to sacrifice other things in the negations.rcs1000 said:
Here's the thing: FTAs these days are all about abolishing non-tariff barriers. You can have that FTA with the US, but you can't require that US food coming into the UK is subject to the same requirements as food from here.HurstLlama said:Fair go, but if we impose animal welfare standards on our own farmers but allow the import of foodstuffs that have been produced under lower standards, and thus at a lower cost, who benefits?
That is exactly what happened with pork. The EU eventually came up with a regime to abolish some horrendously cruel practices. The UK adopted them at once, and added a bit of gold plating, and forced our farmers to comply forthwith. The Dutch and the Danes were allowed a few years grace (and still haven't fully complied). The result, I couldn't find British pork or bacon in the supermarkets, British farmers were forced out of business and the UK TaxPayer lost out.
One would hope that leaving the EU will allow the UK government to enforce a level playing field as regards what gets imported into the UK. Livestock, bred, reared and slaughtered in conditions that would not be acceptable in the UK should be the first example giving our own farmers a chance (going to piss off quite a few Kiwis if we do, mind).
I don't recommend you do that, I would much prefer that consumers can choose to buy and eat whatever foot they want. but if the government wanted to add that in to a FTA then yes it can.0 -
You are badly misinformed over this. Dartmoor where I live is in a very serious crisis of undergrazing: it is scarcely worthwhile to keep any form of stock on it, so no one does, vegetation gets out of control, and the natural paths made by sheep and cattle disappear. I believe the same is true elsewhere - the economics of farming Dartmoor are the economics of farming the Lake district.SandyRentool said:
Over grazing of upland areas.rcs1000 said:
Which specific destructive farming practice do you object to the EU subsidising?SandyRentool said:
As with so much of the EU, it hasn't worked.Ishmael_Z said:
FPT "Ending the handouts for environmentally destructive farming practices was one of the reasons I voted Leave." - the EU ended them in 2003 when it phased out crop subsidies in favour of the Single Farm Payment which explicitly prioritises preservation of the environment.SandyRentool said:
Our priest was no better. That's what made me an atheist. And a rabbit owner.GeoffM said:
It took ages to house-train our rabbi.MTimT said:
Had to do a double-take there. Thought it said rabbi ...SandyRentool said:First, like Portugal last night.
Now I must go and clean my rabbit's litter tray...0 -
Which Tory would I cross the floor for? I think some of you might be able to guess...Danny565 said:
For the reverse of this, politicians who I'd "cross the floor" to vote for....Danny565 said:
I quite like her.SandyRentool said:
Kate Hoey.rcs1000 said:There are three Conservative candidates I could not vote for:
David Tredinnick
Claire-Louise Leyland
Zac Goldsmith
Any other personal dislikes that would over-rule personal political preference out there?
I would've really struggled to vote for Danczuk, if he was running again.
I'd vote for Sarah Wollaston if I was in her constituency. Maybe Heidi Allen too.
On the LDs side, probably Norman Lamb because I like what he's done on mental health. I quite like John Pugh in Southport too. Then again, I'd probably be voting LibDem if I was in any Tory/LD marginal this time (whereas I would've been too petty to do that in 2015).0 -
Poor old yoons, fighting each other about who is the most anti-nat.calum said:Poor old Blair McDougall !
https://twitter.com/PM4EastRen/status/863740133513846784
This election, and the next, and the next.0 -
I wouldn't vote for Kate Hoey.
I wouldn't mind voting for Soubry, Wollaston etc.
In regard to the LDs, I don't mind Clegg, or Norman Lamb. The other MPs beside Farron I can't recall.0 -
CAP - the worst thing since the inverse of sliced bread.rcs1000 said:
Which specific destructive farming practice do you object to the EU subsidising?SandyRentool said:
As with so much of the EU, it hasn't worked.Ishmael_Z said:
FPT "Ending the handouts for environmentally destructive farming practices was one of the reasons I voted Leave." - the EU ended them in 2003 when it phased out crop subsidies in favour of the Single Farm Payment which explicitly prioritises preservation of the environment.SandyRentool said:
Our priest was no better. That's what made me an atheist. And a rabbit owner.GeoffM said:
It took ages to house-train our rabbi.MTimT said:
Had to do a double-take there. Thought it said rabbi ...SandyRentool said:First, like Portugal last night.
Now I must go and clean my rabbit's litter tray...
It's really not hard to grow stuff, and if it's something that's good people really will buy it. Subsidising agriculture is just insane. There's a very sane case for tariffs on food though. You do want your country to have some food producing base. So, if you're Saudi Arabia then you may well wish to stick perhaps 10% on imported food. The last thing you should do with that money though is subsidise your own industry.0 -
It was only when there were no sheep on the fells due to foot and mouth that wild flowers actually had a chance to grow. Yes, it can go the other way and turn to scrub as you suggest, but that is where the subsidy policy should be aiming - to achieve a sustainable balance.Ishmael_Z said:
You are badly misinformed over this. Dartmoor where I live is in a very serious crisis of undergrazing: it is scarcely worthwhile to keep any form of stock on it, so no one does, vegetation gets out of control, and the natural paths made by sheep and cattle disappear. I believe the same is true elsewhere - the economics of farming Dartmoor are the economics of farming the Lake district.SandyRentool said:
Over grazing of upland areas.rcs1000 said:
Which specific destructive farming practice do you object to the EU subsidising?SandyRentool said:
As with so much of the EU, it hasn't worked.Ishmael_Z said:
FPT "Ending the handouts for environmentally destructive farming practices was one of the reasons I voted Leave." - the EU ended them in 2003 when it phased out crop subsidies in favour of the Single Farm Payment which explicitly prioritises preservation of the environment.SandyRentool said:
Our priest was no better. That's what made me an atheist. And a rabbit owner.GeoffM said:
It took ages to house-train our rabbi.MTimT said:
Had to do a double-take there. Thought it said rabbi ...SandyRentool said:First, like Portugal last night.
Now I must go and clean my rabbit's litter tray...0 -
I think the EU are keen for transition arrangements to last no longer than 3 years.FF43 said:
I think he made some decent points, particularly on linking Northern Ireland with agreed trade arrangements. He is flat wrong, however, on his suggestion that we will have a comprehensive trade agreement in place by the time we Brexit. There is no allowance in the EU position for one. Which means everything will hang on the "transition arrangements" - really partial and temporary extensions of the status quo, which he didn't mention at all and which make moot everything else he talked about.Casino_Royale said:I watched the whole of the Robert Peston interview with David Davis, as linked to on his twitter feed on the previous thread.
I don't know how he's concluded "Brexit talks will be in meltdown as early as this Summer" from what seemed a perfectly reasonable and good natured interview to me.
My impression was that David Davis seems confident and well on top of his brief.
The implication is that, thereafter, the new relationship would take effect. Else, we just hard-crash out, just 3 years later than we otherwise would have.
And about two months prior to GE2022.0 -
And what is the bad side of letting some land be reoccupied by natcher, wiled animals and plants? possibly animals that on the verge of extinction, or have a limited habitat?Ishmael_Z said:
You are badly misinformed over this. Dartmoor where I live is in a very serious crisis of undergrazing: it is scarcely worthwhile to keep any form of stock on it, so no one does, vegetation gets out of control, and the natural paths made by sheep and cattle disappear. I believe the same is true elsewhere - the economics of farming Dartmoor are the economics of farming the Lake district.SandyRentool said:
Over grazing of upland areas.rcs1000 said:
Which specific destructive farming practice do you object to the EU subsidising?SandyRentool said:
As with so much of the EU, it hasn't worked.Ishmael_Z said:
FPT "Ending the handouts for environmentally destructive farming practices was one of the reasons I voted Leave." - the EU ended them in 2003 when it phased out crop subsidies in favour of the Single Farm Payment which explicitly prioritises preservation of the environment.SandyRentool said:
Our priest was no better. That's what made me an atheist. And a rabbit owner.GeoffM said:
It took ages to house-train our rabbi.MTimT said:
Had to do a double-take there. Thought it said rabbi ...SandyRentool said:First, like Portugal last night.
Now I must go and clean my rabbit's litter tray...
0 -
At least Ruth's got a policy !OUT said:
Poor old yoons, fighting each other about who is the most anti-nat.calum said:Poor old Blair McDougall !
https://twitter.com/PM4EastRen/status/863740133513846784
This election, and the next, and the next.0 -
I can't imagine blind party loyalty such that not being able to support a candidate of a particular party would be a wrench.
Mind you, it would be a truly exceptional Labour or Conservative candidate who would get my vote this time around.0 -
It's the true test of the political wonk,The_Apocalypse said:I wouldn't vote for Kate Hoey.
I wouldn't mind voting for Soubry, Wollaston etc.
In regard to the LDs, I don't mind Clegg, or Norman Lamb. The other MPs beside Farron I can't recall.
Carmichael - the Orkney and Shetlands chap who leaked and lied
Brake - London, Leave area
Williams - Ceredigion
Pugh - The one I'd forget except he's standing down
Olney - newby
That gets us to 8, which means there's one person I am forgetting and feel bad for.
In a line up I'm sure I could pick out Clegg, Farron, Carmichael, Olney and probably Lamb. The others, no chance.0 -
Ghoutta was debunked.ThreeQuidder said:
Fallon's trip was six years before Ghouta. It's a little different from Corbyn supporting the IRA when they were bombing Britain.surbiton said:
Not any more embarrassing than Fallon celebrating Assad's 99% election victory.SeanT said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5buQkE7rRQ
Fallon is a bit crap to not be able to point this out.0 -
Mulholland - Leeds NW.kle4 said:
It's the true test of the political wonk,The_Apocalypse said:I wouldn't vote for Kate Hoey.
I wouldn't mind voting for Soubry, Wollaston etc.
In regard to the LDs, I don't mind Clegg, or Norman Lamb. The other MPs beside Farron I can't recall.
Carmichael - the Orkney and Shetlands chap who leaked and lied
Brake - London, Leave area
Williams - Ceredigion
Pugh - The one I'd forget except he's standing down
Olney - newby
That gets us to 8, which means there's one person I am forgetting and feel bad for.0 -
Not farming where it doesn't make sense is precisely what you'd want to see.BigRich said:
And what is the bad side of letting some land be reoccupied by natcher, wiled animals and plants? possibly animals that on the verge of extinction, or have a limited habitat?Ishmael_Z said:
You are badly misinformed over this. Dartmoor where I live is in a very serious crisis of undergrazing: it is scarcely worthwhile to keep any form of stock on it, so no one does, vegetation gets out of control, and the natural paths made by sheep and cattle disappear. I believe the same is true elsewhere - the economics of farming Dartmoor are the economics of farming the Lake district.SandyRentool said:
Over grazing of upland areas.rcs1000 said:
Which specific destructive farming practice do you object to the EU subsidising?SandyRentool said:
As with so much of the EU, it hasn't worked.Ishmael_Z said:
FPT "Ending the handouts for environmentally destructive farming practices was one of the reasons I voted Leave." - the EU ended them in 2003 when it phased out crop subsidies in favour of the Single Farm Payment which explicitly prioritises preservation of the environment.SandyRentool said:
Our priest was no better. That's what made me an atheist. And a rabbit owner.GeoffM said:
It took ages to house-train our rabbi.MTimT said:
Had to do a double-take there. Thought it said rabbi ...SandyRentool said:First, like Portugal last night.
Now I must go and clean my rabbit's litter tray...0 -
There are two Liberal Democrats that I'd not be able to bring myself to vote for. One is Vince Cable and I would definitely vote against him. The other is Tim Farron... which is rather unfortunate really... but I'd probably merely abstain if I lived in his constituency... I won't cry if he loses, that's for sure.0
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Tom Brake, Sarah Olney, Mark Williams, Alistair Carmichael are four of them. Can't remember the other two off-hand.The_Apocalypse said:I wouldn't vote for Kate Hoey.
I wouldn't mind voting for Soubry, Wollaston etc.
In regard to the LDs, I don't mind Clegg, or Norman Lamb. The other MPs beside Farron I can't recall.0
