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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » As the election draws closer LAB leader Corbyn is seeing a boo

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  • TudorRoseTudorRose Posts: 1,683

    Yes, that's exactly the impression I've been reporting from the doorstep - some firming, a bit of LD tactical voting (and without being rude, some disillusion with the perceived LD campaign - all about ultra-Remain plus gay sex sin debate, if there's a general message voters arn't seeing it), very little impact on Tories/UKIP yet. But Corbyn's not going down too badly with potential supporters, and in some cases very well - people can see he's about something, while May is seen as safe but empty.
    Does that mean that May's horse has bolted (out of the stable)?
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    edited May 2017

    Labour has narrowed the gap in the polls. I'm concerned that Corbyn may be able to remain leader if that turns out to be accurate. Even if the PLP are sensible and (assuming they can't oust him) split, it could see a decade of complacent Conservative government coupled with no real opposition.

    One of the left's biggest problems is that they are so splintered and fractured with five or six parties competing for 45/48% of the vote.

    If Corbyn wipes out the Greens, Respect and the Lib Dems and makes progress against the Welsh and Scot Nats he essentially improves the left's long term UK position.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,512

    Utterly inept - are they really fighting on a platform of tackling the scourge of camp tokers?
    I don't see an issue here. Perfectly sensible public health stuff surely?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,658

    The left hand photo seems to confirm my suspicions. Corbyn wasn't wearing a seatbelt. So what? Well, it is the law of the land that one must. If he feels himself above the law, that says something about the chap, something that isn't very good for someone who wants to tell the rest of us how to behave.
    Actually he might not be breaking the law.

    I think he's in an official police car with detectives. For security protocols if someone tried to shoot him, a seat belt might be a hindrance.

    So, like taxi drivers, wearing a seat belt might not be mandatory under the law.
  • ProdicusProdicus Posts: 658
    “You are sitting in your office in Taipei or Delaware contemplating your investments in the UK. You are already a bit worried about Britain leaving the EU and the Single Market, and all this talk of tariffs barriers and more forms to fill in. Then, on top of that, you are suddenly confronted with a government intent on raising your taxes, limiting the pay of your senior staff, increasing your wage costs, strengthening trade unions and confiscating your property. If you were already uminng and ahhing about whether to stay invested in Britain after 2019…”

    https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/05/the-last-thing-brexit-britain-needs-is-labours-old-fashioned-socialism/
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    kle4 said:

    I severely doubt he thinks he is above the law. More likely he is just a bit careless with details - didn't he mess up his tax returns two years on the trot or something?
    Ok, right. So if an ordinary member of the public gets pulled over by the Plod he should be able to say, "I am just a bit careless with the details" and get away with it, should he/she? Being careless with the details is just a euphemism for saying "I, being an important person, do not have to worry about these trivial details, they are for little people".
  • ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133

    Actually he might not be breaking the law.

    I think he's in an official police car with detectives. For security protocols if someone tried to shoot him, a seat belt might be a hindrance.

    So, like taxi drivers, wearing a seat belt might not be mandatory under the law.
    That seems right.

    https://www.gov.uk/seat-belts-law/when-you-dont-need-to-wear-a-seat-belt

    You don’t need to wear a seat belt if you’re:

    a driver who is reversing, or supervising a learner driver who is reversing
    in a vehicle being used for police, fire and rescue services
    a passenger in a trade vehicle and you’re investigating a fault
    driving a goods vehicle on deliveries that is travelling no more than 50 metres between stops
    a licensed taxi driver who is ‘plying for hire’ or carrying passengers
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,536
    Scott_P said:
    And lower interest rates thanks to those muppets.
  • DanSmithDanSmith Posts: 1,215

    Labour has narrowed the gap in the polls. I'm concerned that Corbyn may be able to remain leader if that turns out to be accurate. Even if the PLP are sensible and (assuming they can't oust him) split, it could see a decade of complacent Conservative government coupled with no real opposition.

    Labour's support is inching up to 30%, but this is still worse than what Miliband managed. Factor in the polls overestimating Labour (which is what I think is happening) and bigger swings in certain areas, and Labour are still looking at a terrible result, well below 200 seats.
  • timmotimmo Posts: 1,469
    Press release just out from UKIP Sutton. They are not standing candidates in either Sutton&Cheam or Carshalton&Wallington.
    Bad news for the LDs there where in both Constituencies large UKIP vote to squeeze. Over 7000 in C&W.
    Brake is up against it now only defending a 1500 maj
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 33,255

    So May and the Tories are likely to scupper your and Hannan's noble vision of Brexit? That's a shame, but perhaps you should have taken the time to find out what the political realities of Brexit would actually be like. Poor research on your part.
    Nope. We were well aware of the political realities. But any Brexit was better than staying in and in the long run we will still move back to effective freedom of movement. Not least because those voting Remain plus those who wanted an EFTA type Brexit were and probably are in the majority.

    Nice to see you have admitted your characterisation of Hannan was dishonest though.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786

    I don't see an issue here. Perfectly sensible public health stuff surely?
    The messaging is dreadful. People shouldn't smoke, so we're going to spend money targeting ethnic minorities and the lgbt community, it's bizarre. Just commit to fighting it in all society, not single out groups for reprogramming.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 10,033

    Why are we still talking about staying in the single market? That ship sailed in the autumn, when Remainers were too busy Remoaning to push for the EFTA-type solution that many of them now claim to want.
    Casino Royale asked 'Do you have a source for that?'
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    edited May 2017

    That seems right.

    https://www.gov.uk/seat-belts-law/when-you-dont-need-to-wear-a-seat-belt

    You don’t need to wear a seat belt if you’re:

    a driver who is reversing, or supervising a learner driver who is reversing
    in a vehicle being used for police, fire and rescue services
    a passenger in a trade vehicle and you’re investigating a fault
    driving a goods vehicle on deliveries that is travelling no more than 50 metres between stops
    a licensed taxi driver who is ‘plying for hire’ or carrying passengers
    Even if it was an official vehicle, which I very much doubt, taking a politician to a political meeting does not mean the vehicle is being used for "police, fire and rescue" purposes under the Act. Look at any police car and you will see the people in it wearing belts, unless they are actually fighting with a prisoner.

    No excuses, Corbyn was not wearing a seat belt. He should have been.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,546

    Ok, right. So if an ordinary member of the public gets pulled over by the Plod he should be able to say, "I am just a bit careless with the details" and get away with it, should he/she? .
    I didn't say anything of the kind, I don't believe that, and I am baffled you would interpret it that way. But you were inventing a motivation for his behaviour with no proof, that is that he thinks he is above the law. Now, maybe that is true, although I have no evidence for it, and since you provided none I assume you do not either. Given that lack of proof, what's a more likely explanation for him not wearing a seatbelt?

    Or to be more succinct:

    Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,368
    chestnut said:

    One of the left's biggest problems is that they are so splintered and fractured with five or six parties competing for 45/48% of the vote.

    If Corbyn wipes out the Greens, Respect and the Lib Dems and makes progress against the Welsh and Scot Nats he essentially improves the left's long term UK position.
    Do you really see the Labour Party winning seats from the LibDems?

    Leeds NW and Sheffield Hallam are the two theoretical targets, but it's hard to see them falling IMHO.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,658

    That seems right.

    https://www.gov.uk/seat-belts-law/when-you-dont-need-to-wear-a-seat-belt

    You don’t need to wear a seat belt if you’re:

    a driver who is reversing, or supervising a learner driver who is reversing
    in a vehicle being used for police, fire and rescue services
    a passenger in a trade vehicle and you’re investigating a fault
    driving a goods vehicle on deliveries that is travelling no more than 50 metres between stops
    a licensed taxi driver who is ‘plying for hire’ or carrying passengers
    I remember it from a few years ago when I had full blown sciatica and I had to apply for the medical exemption, so I could lie down on the back seat of my father's vehicle, when he had to regularly take me to the Doctors/hospitals and other places.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,546

    Even if it was an official vehicle, which I very much doubt, taking a politician to a political meeting does not mean the vehicle is being used for "police, fire and rescue" purposes under the Act. Look at any police car and you will see the people in it wearing belts, unless they are actually fighting with a prisoner.

    No excuses, Corbyn was not wearing a seat belt. He should have been.
    Even if he does not have to, he should of course. But seriously, you're making a monster our of him when making an idiot out of him is so much more reasonable.
  • scotslassscotslass Posts: 912
    SCOT GOES POP POLL OF POLLS

    SNP 45.0% (+2.2)
    Conservatives 31.5% (+2.2)
    Labour 15.8% (-0.7)
    Liberal Democrats 4.8% (-2.2)

    (The Poll of Polls for Westminster voting intentions uses the Scottish subsamples from all GB-wide polls that have been conducted entirely within the last seven days and for which datasets have been provided, and also all full-scale Scottish polls that have been conducted at least partly within the last seven days. Full-scale polls are given ten times the weighting of subsamples.)

    STRIKES ME AS A SENSIBLE WAY TO DEAL WITH SUB SAMPLES FOR SCOTLAND - note these figures are before YouGov this morning suggesting 46 SNP -26 TORY.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,222
    Tories look big at 5-6 in Carshalton with that UKIP news to me.
  • Blue_rogBlue_rog Posts: 2,019

    Even if it was an official vehicle, which I very much doubt, taking a politician to a political meeting does not mean the vehicle is being used for "police, fire and rescue" purposes under the Act. Look at any police car and you will see the people in it wearing belts, unless they are actually fighting with a prisoner.

    No excuses, Corbyn was not wearing a seat belt. He should have been.
    I didn't think wearing a seat belt in the back of a car was mandatory! Shows how ofet I'm in the back seat.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,546

    The messaging is dreadful. People shouldn't smoke, so we're going to spend money targeting ethnic minorities and the lgbt community, it's bizarre. Just commit to fighting it in all society, not single out groups for reprogramming.
    Makes sense. You can target those groups, if indeed they have a higher prevalence of smoking, later, you don't need to spell out something that oddly specific in a manifesto.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,320
    scotslass said:

    SCOT GOES POP POLL OF POLLS

    SNP 45.0% (+2.2)
    Conservatives 31.5% (+2.2)
    Labour 15.8% (-0.7)
    Liberal Democrats 4.8% (-2.2)

    (The Poll of Polls for Westminster voting intentions uses the Scottish subsamples from all GB-wide polls that have been conducted entirely within the last seven days and for which datasets have been provided, and also all full-scale Scottish polls that have been conducted at least partly within the last seven days. Full-scale polls are given ten times the weighting of subsamples.)

    STRIKES ME AS A SENSIBLE WAY TO DEAL WITH SUB SAMPLES FOR SCOTLAND - note these figures are before YouGov this morning suggesting 46 SNP -26 TORY.

    I was wondering why nobody had mentioned it.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    kle4 said:

    I didn't say anything of the kind, I don't believe that, and I am baffled you would interpret it that way. But you were inventing a motivation for his behaviour with no proof, that is that he thinks he is above the law. Now, maybe that is true, although I have no evidence for it, and since you provided none I assume you do not either. Given that lack of proof, what's a more likely explanation for him not wearing a seatbelt?

    Or to be more succinct:

    Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.
    Failure to wear a seatbelt, outside the statutory exceptions, is an offence. You have to do it, I have to do it, we all have to do it. Being in your words "Careless with the detail" so not bothering does in my view say a lot about the man.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,546
    scotslass said:

    SCOT GOES POP POLL OF POLLS

    SNP 45.0% (+2.2)
    Conservatives 31.5% (+2.2)
    Labour 15.8% (-0.7)
    Liberal Democrats 4.8% (-2.2)

    (The Poll of Polls for Westminster voting intentions uses the Scottish subsamples from all GB-wide polls that have been conducted entirely within the last seven days and for which datasets have been provided, and also all full-scale Scottish polls that have been conducted at least partly within the last seven days. Full-scale polls are given ten times the weighting of subsamples.)

    STRIKES ME AS A SENSIBLE WAY TO DEAL WITH SUB SAMPLES FOR SCOTLAND - note these figures are before YouGov this morning suggesting 46 SNP -26 TORY.

    Damn, if that is right the LDs are doing almost as bad in Scotland as they are in Wales, and Scotland is where they hope to make quite a few gains. SNP is a bit high for my liking too. Oh well.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,368
    timmo said:

    Press release just out from UKIP Sutton. They are not standing candidates in either Sutton&Cheam or Carshalton&Wallington.
    Bad news for the LDs there where in both Constituencies large UKIP vote to squeeze. Over 7000 in C&W.
    Brake is up against it now only defending a 1500 maj

    I don't see how Brake survives, tbh. Leave voting constituency, big UKIP vote to squeeze, minimal Heathrow factor. He's personally popular, but I doubt that's enough.

    I would have thought the LDs would be much more likely to gain Twickenham than to hold Carshalton. (Which is a shame because I like Tom Brake a lot more than I like Vince Cable.)
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    GE nominations close in about 2 hours 45 mins. How many candidates will UKIP manage to stand?
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    rcs1000 said:

    Do you really see the Labour Party winning seats from the LibDems?

    Leeds NW and Sheffield Hallam are the two theoretical targets, but it's hard to see them falling IMHO.
    Not really, but I think there comes a point for many people where they start to wonder how valuable their vote is if they are giving it to a party with 8% vote share and 8/9 MPs.

    There is evidence in the polling to suggest that Lib Dem>Labour drift is happening.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,546

    Failure to wear a seatbelt, outside the statutory exceptions, is an offence. You have to do it, I have to do it, we all have to do it. Being in your words "Careless with the detail" so not bothering does in my view say a lot about the man.
    And I never said it didn't! His carelessness with many things is highly relevant. What I disputed was your assertion, without any supporting evidence and so very unlikely, that he thinks he is above the law. Thinking you are above the law is far more worrisome than being too careless to follow the law, even though the latter is not a frivilous matter either.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    kle4 said:

    Makes sense. You can target those groups, if indeed they have a higher prevalence of smoking, later, you don't need to spell out something that oddly specific in a manifesto.
    Quite. Aside from the tiny dynamic of BAME and LGBT smokers wanting state help to quit it's a statement that will irritate everyone else because of its specificness and what can be inferred from that (rightly or wtongly)
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,368
    kle4 said:

    Damn, if that is right the LDs are doing almost as bad in Scotland as they are in Wales, and Scotland is where they hope to make quite a few gains. SNP is a bit high for my liking too. Oh well.
    I think that's tosh, tbh.

    Ahead of the Holyrood elections, people were using the subsamples to argue the LDs would win at most one constituency seat, (And some people didn't even think they'd get that.) Instead they gained two constituency seats and managed to poll 67.4% in Orkney and Shetland.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,546
    rcs1000 said:

    I think that's tosh, tbh.

    Ahead of the Holyrood elections, people were using the subsamples to argue the LDs would win at most one constituency seat, (And some people didn't even think they'd get that.) Instead they gained two constituency seats and managed to poll 67.4% in Orkney and Shetland.
    And disruption causes by SCON surge take 2?
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    kle4 said:

    Damn, if that is right the LDs are doing almost as bad in Scotland as they are in Wales, and Scotland is where they hope to make quite a few gains. SNP is a bit high for my liking too. Oh well.
    The Lib Dem vote is going to concentrate in only a few seats in Scotland.
  • marke09marke09 Posts: 926
    Had 3 Lib Dem leaflets today - one from Mark Williams (winning here!) the Welsh Lib Dems and from National Lib Dems with a pic of Trump and Mrs May .Also says Plaid Cymru cannot win a National Election...well neither can the Lib Dems!
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,222

    I was wondering why nobody had mentioned it.
    Thanks, my book has a 48 - 51 seat target for the SNP to hit. So hopefully something like

    Lib Dem
    Edi West, Orkney, E Dunbartonshire
    Lab
    East Lothian
    Tories
    D&G, BRS, DCT, WAK, Moray, East Renfrewshire :E
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited May 2017

    I was wondering why nobody had mentioned it.
    I'm amazed we didn't get informed of the SCon 42% subsample that was recent.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,546
    nunu said:
    I volunteer to run the feasibility study into a port in Birmingham, I have very reasonable rates.
  • nunununu Posts: 6,024
    AndyJS said:

    GE nominations close in about 2 hours 45 mins. How many candidates will UKIP manage to stand?

    oh shit better get my papers in....I'm standing in Islington North.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    Pulpstar said:

    Thanks, my book has a 48 - 51 seat target for the SNP to hit. So hopefully something like

    Lib Dem
    Edi West, Orkney, E Dunbartonshire
    Lab
    East Lothian
    Tories
    D&G, BRS, DCT, WAK, Moray, East Renfrewshire :E
    I'd favour Perth and North Perth shire over Moray, they've been closer there since 97 in general and consistently getting 30%. Better base to build from.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,658
    scotslass said:

    SCOT GOES POP POLL OF POLLS

    SNP 45.0% (+2.2)
    Conservatives 31.5% (+2.2)
    Labour 15.8% (-0.7)
    Liberal Democrats 4.8% (-2.2)

    (The Poll of Polls for Westminster voting intentions uses the Scottish subsamples from all GB-wide polls that have been conducted entirely within the last seven days and for which datasets have been provided, and also all full-scale Scottish polls that have been conducted at least partly within the last seven days. Full-scale polls are given ten times the weighting of subsamples.)

    STRIKES ME AS A SENSIBLE WAY TO DEAL WITH SUB SAMPLES FOR SCOTLAND - note these figures are before YouGov this morning suggesting 46 SNP -26 TORY.

    So on the GE that's the SNP down 5% and the Tories up 16.6%

    So that's a 10.8% SNP to Con swing in Scotland.

    Fire up the Klaxons.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,512
    kle4 said:

    I volunteer to run the feasibility study into a port in Birmingham, I have very reasonable rates.
    Canal transportation?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,546
    Alistair said:

    The Lib Dem vote is going to concentrate in only a few seats in Scotland.
    I know, but I find it amazing they are so densely concentrated that their Scotland wide score is so low (even though generally higher than the 4.8 above).
  • FensterFenster Posts: 2,115
    I must admit, the malicious bugger in me would enjoy it if Corbyn closed in causing May a visible wobble.

    May's campaign has been crap from my point of view. She doesn't do it for me at all. I much prefer the Gove and Boris style of Tory politics, being willing to say and do radical, often unpopular things, and offer themselves up to have their heads creamed off with a media shovel.

    I know it's serious times and serious times need serious people and all that, and that May will probably end up with a booming majority... but her campaign is turgid, and more worryingly, I'm beginning to suspect that her campaign isn't borne out of safety-first, but more likely because she just doesn't have many fresh ideas.

    A radical suggestion... post election, if she wanted to be truly radical and approach the Brexit negotiations in an intellectually confident, slightly belligerent manner (which the EU will certainly do from their end), she should put Dominic Cummings, Gove, Hannan and co in charge of it. Liked or hated, they were the intellectual power behind Vote Leave and demonstrated extraordinary resolve in carrying the Brexit torch in the face of the massed ranks of the establishment. They would certainly have a more detailed, forensic grasp of their desired outcomes than Davis, May and Fox appear to have.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,536
    nunu said:
    Have you not heard of the Birmingham Ship Canal? :)
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,320
    Alistair said:

    I'm amazed we didn't get informed of the SCon 42% subsample that was recent.
    Worry not, I think it was mentioned minutes after the Panelbase was released.
  • ProdicusProdicus Posts: 658
    Moral dilemma. I despise the LibDems, or as they're known around here, the Sanctimonious Dirty-Campaigners Party, but I have them on 10-19 seats in a treble so my wallet needs them to improve. Oh, the depths I have sunk to since coming here and finding myself in bad company.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,222

    I'd favour Perth and North Perth shire over Moray, they've been closer there since 97 in general and consistently getting 30%. Better base to build from.
    I think the Tories are going to bust out the top of the range in all honesty.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    Blue_rog said:

    I didn't think wearing a seat belt in the back of a car was mandatory! Shows how ofet I'm in the back seat.
    Crikey, Mr. Rog, wearing of rear seat belts, when fitted, has only been compulsory since 1987
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,368
    chestnut said:

    Not really, but I think there comes a point for many people where they start to wonder how valuable their vote is if they are giving it to a party with 8% vote share and 8/9 MPs.

    There is evidence in the polling to suggest that Lib Dem>Labour drift is happening.
    I'd be very surprised if the LDs didn't get into double figures in this election, and I think 11-12% is much more likely than 10%. Don't forget they increased their absolute number of votes in England 40% last week. Tides ebb and flow. And the UK has had a third (centrist) party getting a 10-20% share of the vote for most of the last last 50 years. Unless the Labour or Conservative Parties want to stake out that ground, then I suspect they'll manage it again (and likely sooner than you think).
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,795
    Guido Fawkes‏VERIFIED ACCOUNT @GuidoFawkes 1 min1 minute ago

    #StayTuned for a Labour parliamentary candidate who surely won't be a parliamentary candidate for very much longer
  • PeterMannionPeterMannion Posts: 712
    Scott P thinking no seatbelt means he think he's above the law, rather than just daft :)

    Embarrassing Mr P, embarrassing...
  • Blue_rogBlue_rog Posts: 2,019
    edited May 2017

    Crikey, Mr. Rog, wearing of rear seat belts, when fitted, has only been compulsory since 1987
    That's what comes in being tallest/fattest in a group. I'm always given the front seat :grin:
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    Pulpstar said:

    I think the Tories are going to bust out the top of the range in all honesty.
    They might get both in all fairness but I see Perth as the stronger showing, maybe 50% in the vote.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,368
    kle4 said:

    I know, but I find it amazing they are so densely concentrated that their Scotland wide score is so low (even though generally higher than the 4.8 above).
    They only got 5% of the regional vote in the 2016 Holyroods, but tactical voting took that up to 7% in the constituencies. And that got them two gains and a nearly.
  • rcs1000 said:

    I don't see how Brake survives, tbh. Leave voting constituency, big UKIP vote to squeeze, minimal Heathrow factor. He's personally popular, but I doubt that's enough.

    I would have thought the LDs would be much more likely to gain Twickenham than to hold Carshalton. (Which is a shame because I like Tom Brake a lot more than I like Vince Cable.)
    I think it's pretty tough for him, but he does have a reasonable Labour/Green vote to squeeze.

    I also do wonder whether UKIP formally standing aside for the Tories is quite as good for the Tories as UKIP withering on the vine. "Farage is backing the Tory candidate" is quite a good targeted message for the Lib Dems when it comes to their own soft vote, Labour, Green, and even soft Con.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,346
    nunu said:
    Well, Birmingham has more canals than Venice. It's simple.

    Instead of these ecologically devastating super-sized cargo ships, Labour will introduce a fleet of narrow boats to transport goods around the world. Not only can they get nearer to the destination (preventing having to offload onto trucks), but they can also be horse-powered all the way from China, South America or Australia to here!
  • nunununu Posts: 6,024

    So on the GE that's the SNP down 5% and the Tories up 16.6%

    So that's a 10.8% SNP to Con swing in Scotland.

    Fire up the Klaxons.
    Lib Dems a bit too low, but think the result will be very close to that. Could see some striking gains for the tories in north east scotland.
  • JasonJason Posts: 1,614
    Fenster said:

    I must admit, the malicious bugger in me would enjoy it if Corbyn closed in causing May a visible wobble.

    May's campaign has been crap from my point of view. She doesn't do it for me at all. I much prefer the Gove and Boris style of Tory politics, being willing to say and do radical, often unpopular things, and offer themselves up to have their heads creamed off with a media shovel.

    I know it's serious times and serious times need serious people and all that, and that May will probably end up with a booming majority... but her campaign is turgid, and more worryingly, I'm beginning to suspect that her campaign isn't borne out of safety-first, but more likely because she just doesn't have many fresh ideas.

    A radical suggestion... post election, if she wanted to be truly radical and approach the Brexit negotiations in an intellectually confident, slightly belligerent manner (which the EU will certainly do from their end), she should put Dominic Cummings, Gove, Hannan and co in charge of it. Liked or hated, they were the intellectual power behind Vote Leave and demonstrated extraordinary resolve in carrying the Brexit torch in the face of the massed ranks of the establishment. They would certainly have a more detailed, forensic grasp of their desired outcomes than Davis, May and Fox appear to have.

    The Tory campaign has been deliberately low key, for obvious reasons. Labour can derail themselves without any further help.

    However, once the Tory manifesto has been released, I expect the latter stages of the campaign to change markedly. I also expect Crosby & co to go after Corbyn and McDonnell very hard in the last few weeks. The Tories will play the security card for all its worth, and we all know Labour's Brexit stance changes every 24 hours.

    Ultimately, when people are hovering over what box to put the X in, it is May or Corbyn as PM that will be at the forefront of their minds.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,222
    rcs1000 said:

    They only got 5% of the regional vote in the 2016 Holyroods, but tactical voting took that up to 7% in the constituencies. And that got them two gains and a nearly.
    Scotland looks by far the brightest spot to the Lib Dems to me.

    The Labour manifesto is going down very well amongst my left wing facebook friends. With the exception of Cambridge Lib/Lab battlegrounds will be bloody hard work. Maybe just Bermondsey & Cambridge in all honesty.
  • nunununu Posts: 6,024
    Pulpstar said:

    I think the Tories are going to bust out the top of the range in all honesty.
    what does that mean? How many seats are you predicting, bearing in mind lazy ex- labour (now snp) voters don't turnout for local elections.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,222

    I think it's pretty tough for him, but he does have a reasonable Labour/Green vote to squeeze.

    I also do wonder whether UKIP formally standing aside for the Tories is quite as good for the Tories as UKIP withering on the vine. "Farage is backing the Tory candidate" is quite a good targeted message for the Lib Dems when it comes to their own soft vote, Labour, Green, and even soft Con.
    Nah the maths doesn't lie. UKIP standing might have saved Brake.
  • marke09marke09 Posts: 926
    Emily Thornberry on QuestionTime tonight
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    Corbyn and Labour's improved standing in the polls is proof positive that "there's no such thing as bad publicity".

    How are Labour seat sellers feeling right now? A tad uncomfortable, perhaps?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,222
    nunu said:

    what does that mean? How many seats are you predicting, bearing in mind lazy ex- labour (now snp) voters don't turnout for local elections.
    As I said I'm hoping for 48, but my gut says perhaps 46 right now.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Pulpstar said:

    Nah the maths doesn't lie. UKIP standing might have saved Brake.
    Putative headline - "Brake cut".
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,368
    Pulpstar said:

    Scotland looks by far the brightest spot to the Lib Dems to me.

    The Labour manifesto is going down very well amongst my left wing facebook friends. With the exception of Cambridge Lib/Lab battlegrounds will be bloody hard work. Maybe just Bermondsey & Cambridge in all honesty.
    Hornsey & Wood Green is apparently seeing a lot of LD activity (and negligible Labour). Can't see it myself, but there you go.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,884
    edited May 2017
    rcs1000 said:

    I think that's tosh, tbh.

    Ahead of the Holyrood elections, people were using the subsamples to argue the LDs would win at most one constituency seat, (And some people didn't even think they'd get that.) Instead they gained two constituency seats and managed to poll 67.4% in Orkney and Shetland.
    It comes down to tactical voting. With four different electoral systems in play, Scottish voters are relatively savvy. Also there are strong pro and anti-SNP sentiments. Pro Union parties will do well at the expense of the SNP where they are collectively the majority (look for constituencies with SNP votes shares in 2015 that were less than 45%) and if one of the candidates can make a convincing case that they are the ones to beat the SNP and can attract supporters of other parties on a "Do you want us or do you want the SNP?" ticket. Those are more important predictors than the 2015 margin between the SNP and the second placed party and the subsequent national swing. I would say there are maybe three realistic Labour targets on that basis and the same number for the Lib Dems. There are maybe a dozen Tory targets. The upside is much greater for them. They are not all going to work. Six extra* seatsfor the Tories, two for the Lib Dems and one for Labour looks to be the median probability.

    *Edit
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    I don't see an issue here. Perfectly sensible public health stuff surely?
    Just given as examples of high risk groups who may benefit from tailored messages. Seems wise to me.

    Homeless have the highest smoking rate in the UK, but perhaps getting them homed would be the first step.
  • ProdicusProdicus Posts: 658
    ignore
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited May 2017

    Even if it was an official vehicle, which I very much doubt, taking a politician to a political meeting does not mean the vehicle is being used for "police, fire and rescue" purposes under the Act. Look at any police car and you will see the people in it wearing belts, unless they are actually fighting with a prisoner.

    No excuses, Corbyn was not wearing a seat belt. He should have been.

    FFS the number of pompous and pious comments on this is ridiculous. Does anyone really give a shit? Perhaps he was unbuckling as the car drew to a halt (or buckling as it was departing). Or whatever.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022

    Betfair say they have taken £2000 this morning on bets on Labour most seats.

    That's £2K less leaflet money for Momentum come the next leadership election this summer. Keep it up kids!

    Fantastic news! Come on Momentum, there's still 64/1 45/1 on a Labour majority available, one last push and you'll be there.
    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/politics/event/28051210/market?marketId=1.119040708
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,222
    rcs1000 said:

    Hornsey & Wood Green is apparently seeing a lot of LD activity (and negligible Labour). Can't see it myself, but there you go.
    I can, just. Though I'm not topping up on my 3-1 there. Vauxhall is the Lib/Lab rick of the election so far in my opinion, frankly ridiculous odds there from the bookies.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    Well, Birmingham has more canals than Venice. It's simple.

    Instead of these ecologically devastating super-sized cargo ships, Labour will introduce a fleet of narrow boats to transport goods around the world. Not only can they get nearer to the destination (preventing having to offload onto trucks), but they can also be horse-powered all the way from China, South America or Australia to here!
    You take the piss, Mr. Jessop, and rightly so. However, I wonder if there is not a nugget of value in encouraging freight back to the canals. Probably the volumes are too large these days but I wonder if there are not some cargos that have to be shifted in bulk and regularly but which are not time critical that could not be successfully be moved by water. It would, probably, be very environmentally friendly if they could.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    AndyJS said:

    GE nominations close in about 2 hours 45 mins. How many candidates will UKIP manage to stand?

    I say less than 100, which screws the polls completely.
  • BannedInParisBannedInParis Posts: 2,191

    Well, Birmingham has more canals than Venice. It's simple.

    Instead of these ecologically devastating super-sized cargo ships, Labour will introduce a fleet of narrow boats to transport goods around the world. Not only can they get nearer to the destination (preventing having to offload onto trucks), but they can also be horse-powered all the way from China, South America or Australia to here!
    from the twitter

    "Jim Bowen used to give away speedboats on Bullseye to people living in Birmingham tower blocks. Never realised he was a maritime visionary.."
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    I was wondering why nobody had mentioned it.
    Still the '45 I see...

  • booksellerbookseller Posts: 508

    You take the piss, Mr. Jessop, and rightly so. However, I wonder if there is not a nugget of value in encouraging freight back to the canals. Probably the volumes are too large these days but I wonder if there are not some cargos that have to be shifted in bulk and regularly but which are not time critical that could not be successfully be moved by water. It would, probably, be very environmentally friendly if they could.
    Droneships?

    Oh, sorry, that won't go down well with the unions...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,546
    Anorak said:

    FFS the number of pompous and pious comments on this is ridiculous. Does anyone really give a shit? Perhaps he was unbuckling as the car drew to a halt (or buckling as it was departing). Or whatever.
    Fewer than a handful were outraged about it, there haven't been that many.
  • rural_voterrural_voter Posts: 2,038
    Pulpstar said:

    Tories look big at 5-6 in Carshalton with that UKIP news to me.

    They've already gone from 1.83 to less than 1.8.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,546

    You take the piss, Mr. Jessop, and rightly so. However, I wonder if there is not a nugget of value in encouraging freight back to the canals. Probably the volumes are too large these days but I wonder if there are not some cargos that have to be shifted in bulk and regularly but which are not time critical that could not be successfully be moved by water. It would, probably, be very environmentally friendly if they could.
    I recall in the Ben Elton book Gridlock there is a guy advocating just such a system - on the basis it will take a long time to get anywhere, but once set up you have a constant incoming stream of raw material at all times.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,368
    FF43 said:

    It comes down to tactical voting. With four different electoral systems in play, Scottish voters are relatively savvy. Also there are strong pro and anti-SNP sentiments. Pro Union parties will do well at the expense of the SNP where they are collectively the majority (look for constituencies with SNP votes shares in 2015 that were less than 45%) and if one of the candidates can make a convincing case that they are the ones to beat the SNP and can attract supporters of other parties on a "Do you want us or do you want the SNP?" ticket. Those are more important predictors than the 2015 margin between the SNP and the second placed party and the subsequent national swing. I would say there are maybe three realistic Labour targets on that basis and the same number for the Lib Dems. There are maybe a dozen Tory targets. The upside is much greater for them. They are not all going to work. Six extra* seatsfor the Tories, two for the Lib Dems and one for Labour looks to be the median probability.

    *Edit
    Technically there are four Scottish LD targets:

    - Dumbartonshire East
    - Edinburgh West
    - Fife NE
    - Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross

    I think Edinburgh West, where last week's locals reinforced the Holyrood 2016 vote is the nearest to a certainty. They'll probably pick up one of the other three.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    tlg86 said:

    Have you not heard of the Birmingham Ship Canal? :)
    May be if you put a bloody great canal across the middle of England you could have a permanent Labour majority in the northern bit?
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    rcs1000 said:

    Technically there are four Scottish LD targets:

    - Dumbartonshire East
    - Edinburgh West
    - Fife NE
    - Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross

    I think Edinburgh West, where last week's locals reinforced the Holyrood 2016 vote is the nearest to a certainty. They'll probably pick up one of the other three.
    Edinburgh West looks like free money to me.
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    Two things that stand out from Gordon Brown's Coventry speech:

    1. Speaks as tho there will be a Tory Govt.
    2. Don't think he has once mentioned Jeremy Corbyn.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,924

    Guido Fawkes‏VERIFIED ACCOUNT @GuidoFawkes 1 min1 minute ago

    #StayTuned for a Labour parliamentary candidate who surely won't be a parliamentary candidate for very much longer

    Plenty to choose from but please let it be

    WoodCOCK
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited May 2017
    kle4 said:

    Fewer than a handful were outraged about it, there haven't been that many.
    I despair that there were any. And I'm not going to start on those people who thought his chauffeur was in the back seat with him (although that would explain the accident).
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Scott P thinking no seatbelt means he think he's above the law, rather than just daft :)

    Embarrassing Mr P, embarrassing...

    That comment's a bit below the belt.

    (Ah, stewardess. Is that my coat?)
  • nunununu Posts: 6,024
    Pulpstar said:

    As I said I'm hoping for 48, but my gut says perhaps 46 right now.
    they will get 47....
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Scott_P said:
    The Conservatives need to decide quickly whether Jeremy Corbyn is wicked or hapless.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited May 2017
    Edit: beaten to it by ScottP
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Putative headline - "Brake cut".
    A close result : Brake light
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    nunu said:

    they will get 47....
    I think the LDs might win Caithness as well.
This discussion has been closed.