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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » As the election draws closer LAB leader Corbyn is seeing a boo

SystemSystem Posts: 11,703
edited May 2017 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » As the election draws closer LAB leader Corbyn is seeing a boost in his “Best Prime Minister” ratings

Of all the ratings that are made of leaders the one I have least doubts about his who would make the best Prime Minister. Quite simply the incumbent generally gets a huge boost simply because they are in the post and the opposition leader isn’t.

Read the full story here


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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,583
    edited May 2017
    This ain't over, coupled with the above, is Mrs May the new Devon Loch?

    https://twitter.com/BetfairExchange/status/862624388750987265
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,616
    The donkeys are mobilising.
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    Somewhere
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,583
    @TomMcTague: Some Lab MPs at today's ClauseV meeting so furious with JC they were prepared to call on him to go. Have been persuaded not to by colleagues
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,583
    Interesting. Might get us membership of the single market and custom unions.

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/862615424856449024
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,135

    @TomMcTague: Some Lab MPs at today's ClauseV meeting so furious with JC they were prepared to call on him to go. Have been persuaded not to by colleagues

    Labour MPs in missing spine shock!
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    ProdicusProdicus Posts: 658
    FPT

    Assuming we haven't left the EU by the time of the entry into Number 10 of JCICIPM, will EU law allow the execution of the fullness of his glorious manifesto?
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    Blue_rogBlue_rog Posts: 2,019
    BoE revises growth to 1.9%
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,135
    Blue_rog said:

    BoE revises growth to 1.9%

    And warned they may need to raise rates.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,997

    This ain't over, coupled with the above, is Mrs May the new Devon Loch?

    https://twitter.com/BetfairExchange/status/862624388750987265

    The price is wrong. At least 3% wrong

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Favourite-longshot_bias
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,205
    Don't knows breaking for Jezza now we know he will lead Labour at the election?
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,015
    Well, he's not been terrible so far, on a sliding scale down to Abbot admittedly, and a lot of people just don't want a Tory PM no matter the opposition.

    As you say, his leadership score is still terrible, as is the Labour overall score should the Tory one be accurate, but relatively Lab are picking up.

    And I blame the LDs for that personally.

    @TomMcTague: Some Lab MPs at today's ClauseV meeting so furious with JC they were prepared to call on him to go. Have been persuaded not to by colleagues

    Bullcrap. They weren't going to do anything, then whinged about it off the record. Again.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,616

    Interesting. Might get us membership of the single market and custom unions.

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/862615424856449024

    Vote Labour: Brexit doesn't mean Brexit.
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    chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    The more I hear and see of Corbyn and his aims, the more convinced I am that he is determined to kill off any opposition on the left.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,997
    edited May 2017
    I'm trying to work out if Labour most seats (lay) is more secure a bet than Macron (Back, r2) was in France. We're deep into 5+ sigma stuff here.

    I reckon 475+ seats for the Tories is more likely than Jezza winning.
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    chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341

    Blue_rog said:

    BoE revises growth to 1.9%

    And warned they may need to raise rates.
    Let's hope so.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,583

    Interesting. Might get us membership of the single market and custom unions.

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/862615424856449024

    Vote Labour: Brexit doesn't mean Brexit.
    It's the Dan Hannan Brexit, didn't he say voting Leave wasn't voting to Leave the single market?
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    AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 2,869
    The many vs the few can be seen in different contexts:

    For the many in my Twitter/Facebook groupings, not the few who aren't?

    For the many who want to come here, not the few who were born here?
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    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    Interesting. Might get us membership of the single market and custom unions.

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/862615424856449024

    Vote Labour: Brexit doesn't mean Brexit.
    It's the Dan Hannan Brexit, didn't he say voting Leave wasn't voting to Leave the single market?
    I don't think so.
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    ProdicusProdicus Posts: 658
    edited May 2017
    Are the manifestos going to be costed by independent authorities?

    (Edit: I mean, Corbyn's people surely need an accountant (at least) to check their numbers, no?)
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    SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    edited May 2017
    His best PM rating was 14%, it’s now 21%. - Huzzah, the #saveCorbyn campaign worked.
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    eekeek Posts: 25,020
    Prodicus said:

    Are the manifestos going to be costed by independent authorities?

    I doubt any independent authority could finish the Labour Manifesto without dying from laughter...
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,616

    Interesting. Might get us membership of the single market and custom unions.

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/862615424856449024

    Vote Labour: Brexit doesn't mean Brexit.
    It's the Dan Hannan Brexit, didn't he say voting Leave wasn't voting to Leave the single market?
    No.
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    Carolus_RexCarolus_Rex Posts: 1,414

    Blue_rog said:

    BoE revises growth to 1.9%

    And warned they may need to raise rates.
    Maybe because they shouldn't have cut them so far in the first place!
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    chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    edited May 2017

    His best PM rating was 14%, it’s now 21%. - Huzzah, the #saveCorbyn campaign worked.

    There are some signs in Labour's retention numbers that their 2015 vote is falling back into line. That will reflect in this type of outcome.

    If you convince yourself that you will vote Labour, you have to convince yourself that Corbyn is PM material.

    It's evident that some Labour waverers are moving back to him.

    https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/agmdwosoqz/YG Trackers - Best Prime Minister.pdf
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    PendduPenddu Posts: 265
    Carwyn Jones and Welsh Labour now seem to be disowning him completely.... already under instructions not to utter his nane and now saying manifesto is nothing to do with Wales

    I predict a complete breakaway of Welsh Labour shortly...
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,997
    Ed Miliband's ratings crept up close to the event. What we're seeing is a rationalisation from Labour voters that Jez will make a good PM.

    If you've bet on Labour sub 20% then you've got a losing bet I'm afraid.
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    BannedInParisBannedInParis Posts: 2,191
    edited May 2017
    I think this is broadly comparable to Ed in the same timeframe in 2015

    April 21-22 40 26
    April 07-08 40 24
    March 24-25 39 21
    March 10-11 39 21
    February 24-25 38 19
    February 10-11 36 18
    January 27-28 39 20
    January 13-14 37 19

    Month - Date - DC - Ed
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    BaskervilleBaskerville Posts: 391
    edited May 2017
    It was reasonable to suggest that the UK could keep access to the Single Market, even though we stopped being members of it. The EU27 have since made very clear that the SM and free movement are indivisible and implied we cannot have full access to the SM because that would give us an advantage that we no longer deserve after departure. Hence, it is not Dan Hannan who has changed his position, it is the EU27 who have clarified theirs. I'm still hopeful that, so long as we can keep J-CJ locked in a cupboard, the grown ups can negotiate a FTA that gives us access to most of the SM.

    Interesting. Might get us membership of the single market and custom unions.

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/862615424856449024

    Vote Labour: Brexit doesn't mean Brexit.
    It's the Dan Hannan Brexit, didn't he say voting Leave wasn't voting to Leave the single market?
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,583

    Interesting. Might get us membership of the single market and custom unions.

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/862615424856449024

    Vote Labour: Brexit doesn't mean Brexit.
    It's the Dan Hannan Brexit, didn't he say voting Leave wasn't voting to Leave the single market?
    No.
    Must be a different Dan Hannan who said

    'Absolutely nobody is talking about threatening our place in the Single Market'
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,135
    chestnut said:

    Blue_rog said:

    BoE revises growth to 1.9%

    And warned they may need to raise rates.
    Let's hope so.
    Although with house prices already falling and Brexit economic pain around the corner, May could have a crash on her hands. The next election might see the return of those repossession posters.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,616

    @TomMcTague: Some Lab MPs at today's ClauseV meeting so furious with JC they were prepared to call on him to go. Have been persuaded not to by colleagues

    Ooooh.. they were pushed so far they almost said something out loud.

    Brave. Very brave.
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    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    Labour's draft manifest is not taking us back to the Seventies at all whatever the Tory press might say – more like the late Eighties/early Nineties. The Privatisation programmed did not really take off until Thatcher’s second term with the sale of BT in 1984 followed by British Gas in 1986. The elecricity and water industries were not privatised until Thatcher’s third term and the Major years.
    All the extensions of Public Ownership likely to be proposed by Labour in its manifesto relate to industries which were still in state hands in 1983 – and in the case of the railways and Royal Mail remained so until 1997 and 2012 respectively. It is a very different scenario to the ultra left1983 manifesto which wished to nationalize industries that never belonged to the Public Sector.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,997

    I think this is broadly comparable to Ed in the same timeframe in 2015

    April 21-22 40 26
    April 07-08 40 24
    March 24-25 39 21
    March 10-11 39 21
    February 24-25 38 19
    February 10-11 36 18
    January 27-28 39 20
    January 13-14 37 19

    Month - Date - DC - Ed

    So add 6 on to get Labour's score ?

    27% feels about right.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,015
    Prodicus said:
    I'm sure he feels bad about it, and it is not as though he has a good relationship with the media that will suffer as a result.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,583

    It was reasonable to suggest that the UK could keep access to the Single Market, even though we stopped being members of it. The EU27 have since made very clear that the SM and free movement are indivisible and implied we cannot have full access to the SM because that would give us an advantage that we no longer deserve after departure. Hence, it is not Dan Hannan who has changed his position, it is the EU27 who have clarified theirs. I'm still hopeful that, so long as we can keep J-CJ locked in a cupboard, the grown ups can negotiate an FTA that gives us access to most of the SM.

    Interesting. Might get us membership of the single market and custom unions.

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/862615424856449024

    Vote Labour: Brexit doesn't mean Brexit.
    It's the Dan Hannan Brexit, didn't he say voting Leave wasn't voting to Leave the single market?
    Errrr, have you forgot this

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/evan-davis-newsnight-bbc-daniel-hannan-mep-eu-referendum-brexit_uk_576e2967e4b08d2c56393241
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    AlsoIndigoAlsoIndigo Posts: 1,852
    Prodicus said:

    FPT

    Assuming we haven't left the EU by the time of the entry into Number 10 of JCICIPM, will EU law allow the execution of the fullness of his glorious manifesto?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Railway_Package
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,941
    If Corbyn's PM ratings are ticking up, it's time for the ambush:
    Note to Corbyn and team: this isn't going away, and it's going to be harder get nastier every day from now until June 8th.
    https://twitter.com/DailyMailUK/status/862587849912311808
    https://twitter.com/DailyMailUK/status/862570305717493760
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,015

    I think this is broadly comparable to Ed in the same timeframe in 2015

    April 21-22 40 26
    April 07-08 40 24
    March 24-25 39 21
    March 10-11 39 21
    February 24-25 38 19
    February 10-11 36 18
    January 27-28 39 20
    January 13-14 37 19

    Month - Date - DC - Ed

    Corbyn would be very happy to get an Ed M type result. And what a waste of opportunity from TMay that would be!
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    SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    The expression on the face of the passenger is a hoot. Jeremy really doesn’t like the media.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,583
    Good old Sir Michael Fallon

    Do you want the strong and stable leadership of Theresa May and the Conservatives, who have a proven track record in taking the difficult decisions needed to keep our country safe?

    Or do you want a weak and floundering Jeremy Corbyn in Downing Street, a man who cannot say if he would authorise a strike to kill the leader of Islamic State - a terrorist group that wants to destroy us?
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    Corbyn has been slammed so heavily in the past that people are shocked when they actually hear him speak and he is, if not good, then at least coherent and, if not likeable, then at least not detestable. He also benefits a little from the fact that all Labour MPs know he's leader for one more month, and there has to be a ceasefire however much they punch the wall when they get home from canvassing.

    But that's all dead cat bounce to a degree - he was so low it was hard to go lower. I am very, very surprised by some polls putting him on a par with Miliband in 2015 in terms of vote share, even with the UKIP collapse and lacklustre campaigns from all other parties. It just doesn't square with my door knocking, albeit in a seat Labour isn't contesting seriously.
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    BannedInParisBannedInParis Posts: 2,191
    The increase in May's scores from 45-47 to 48-49 is also comparable with Cameron in the same period, bar for a peak at 54 the moment the election got announced.
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    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    It was reasonable to suggest that the UK could keep access to the Single Market, even though we stopped being members of it. The EU27 have since made very clear that the SM and free movement are indivisible and implied we cannot have full access to the SM because that would give us an advantage that we no longer deserve after departure. Hence, it is not Dan Hannan who has changed his position, it is the EU27 who have clarified theirs. I'm still hopeful that, so long as we can keep J-CJ locked in a cupboard, the grown ups can negotiate an FTA that gives us access to most of the SM.

    Interesting. Might get us membership of the single market and custom unions.

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/862615424856449024

    Vote Labour: Brexit doesn't mean Brexit.
    It's the Dan Hannan Brexit, didn't he say voting Leave wasn't voting to Leave the single market?
    Errrr, have you forgot this

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/evan-davis-newsnight-bbc-daniel-hannan-mep-eu-referendum-brexit_uk_576e2967e4b08d2c56393241
    I think you might want to look a little deeper into Hannan's expressed views. He has written a couple of books a various other stuff, might help you out a bit rather than a quick Google.

    No matter, if you think Corbyn has the right answer on the EU question then perhaps you should vote for him, and accept all the other stuff that would come with him winning.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,616

    Interesting. Might get us membership of the single market and custom unions.

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/862615424856449024

    Vote Labour: Brexit doesn't mean Brexit.
    It's the Dan Hannan Brexit, didn't he say voting Leave wasn't voting to Leave the single market?
    No.
    Must be a different Dan Hannan who said

    'Absolutely nobody is talking about threatening our place in the Single Market'
    Do you have a source for that?

    Hannan has been pretty consistent in that he wanted us to join EFTA, which allows free movement of workers. He has always been at odds with the "official" Leave campaign on that, which has caused him some embarrassment, but I've never seen him say we should stay in the EEA.
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    paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,461
    Prodicus said:
    it's worse. he appears to have tom cruise as his chauffeur.
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    Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,323

    It was reasonable to suggest that the UK could keep access to the Single Market, even though we stopped being members of it. The EU27 have since made very clear that the SM and free movement are indivisible and implied we cannot have full access to the SM because that would give us an advantage that we no longer deserve after departure. Hence, it is not Dan Hannan who has changed his position, it is the EU27 who have clarified theirs. I'm still hopeful that, so long as we can keep J-CJ locked in a cupboard, the grown ups can negotiate an FTA that gives us access to most of the SM.

    Interesting. Might get us membership of the single market and custom unions.

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/862615424856449024

    Vote Labour: Brexit doesn't mean Brexit.
    It's the Dan Hannan Brexit, didn't he say voting Leave wasn't voting to Leave the single market?
    Errrr, have you forgot this

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/evan-davis-newsnight-bbc-daniel-hannan-mep-eu-referendum-brexit_uk_576e2967e4b08d2c56393241
    These days Hannan is just an embarrassment to Leave. His lofty preferences are now in tatters. Leave supporters should just be honest and admit he was their clueless dupe, put in place to mislead us.
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    BannedInParisBannedInParis Posts: 2,191
    edited May 2017
    kle4 said:

    I think this is broadly comparable to Ed in the same timeframe in 2015

    April 21-22 40 26
    April 07-08 40 24
    March 24-25 39 21
    March 10-11 39 21
    February 24-25 38 19
    February 10-11 36 18
    January 27-28 39 20
    January 13-14 37 19

    Month - Date - DC - Ed

    Corbyn would be very happy to get an Ed M type result. And what a waste of opportunity from TMay that would be!
    Two differences

    *I think the difference would be CON on 36 and CON on 46ish. Big difference.

    *I'm commenting on the increase. In absolute terms, Corbyn is about 5 % behind Ed throughout.
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    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    The expression on the face of the passenger is a hoot. Jeremy really doesn’t like the media.
    Not wholly sure but it doesn't look like Corbyn is wearing his seatbelt.
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,786
    edited May 2017

    Interesting. Might get us membership of the single market and custom unions.

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/862615424856449024

    Vote Labour: Brexit doesn't mean Brexit.
    It's the Dan Hannan Brexit, didn't he say voting Leave wasn't voting to Leave the single market?
    Repeat after me. Single market membership and single market access are not the same thing. And then goes onto say they essentially are the same thing. This was the official Leave position. Confused? People weren't as confused as they should have been. Hence the Leave result.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,015

    Prodicus said:
    it's worse. he appears to have tom cruise as his chauffeur.
    I'm glad I wasn't the only one who thought that.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,583

    Interesting. Might get us membership of the single market and custom unions.

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/862615424856449024

    Vote Labour: Brexit doesn't mean Brexit.
    It's the Dan Hannan Brexit, didn't he say voting Leave wasn't voting to Leave the single market?
    No.
    Must be a different Dan Hannan who said

    'Absolutely nobody is talking about threatening our place in the Single Market'
    Do you have a source for that?

    Hannan has been pretty consistent in that he wanted us to join EFTA, which allows free movement of workers. He has always been at odds with the "official" Leave campaign on that, which has caused him some embarrassment, but I've never seen him say we should stay in the EEA.
    It's in the video in this article

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/open-britain-video-single-market-nigel-farage-anna-soubry_uk_582ce0a0e4b09025ba310fce
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    BaskervilleBaskerville Posts: 391

    It was reasonable to suggest that the UK could keep access to the Single Market, even though we stopped being members of it. The EU27 have since made very clear that the SM and free movement are indivisible and implied we cannot have full access to the SM because that would give us an advantage that we no longer deserve after departure. Hence, it is not Dan Hannan who has changed his position, it is the EU27 who have clarified theirs. I'm still hopeful that, so long as we can keep J-CJ locked in a cupboard, the grown ups can negotiate an FTA that gives us access to most of the SM.

    Interesting. Might get us membership of the single market and custom unions.

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/862615424856449024

    Vote Labour: Brexit doesn't mean Brexit.
    It's the Dan Hannan Brexit, didn't he say voting Leave wasn't voting to Leave the single market?
    Errrr, have you forgot this

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/evan-davis-newsnight-bbc-daniel-hannan-mep-eu-referendum-brexit_uk_576e2967e4b08d2c56393241
    'They have learned nothing, and forgotten nothing'; generally misattributed to Talleyrand.
    I suspect you did not understand my point.
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    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,727

    Interesting. Might get us membership of the single market and custom unions.

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/862615424856449024

    Vote Labour: Brexit doesn't mean Brexit.
    It's the Dan Hannan Brexit, didn't he say voting Leave wasn't voting to Leave the single market?
    No.
    Must be a different Dan Hannan who said

    'Absolutely nobody is talking about threatening our place in the Single Market'
    Do you have a source for that?

    Hannan has been pretty consistent in that he wanted us to join EFTA, which allows free movement of workers. He has always been at odds with the "official" Leave campaign on that, which has caused him some embarrassment, but I've never seen him say we should stay in the EEA.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xGt3QmRSZY&feature=youtu.be&t=11
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,015
    edited May 2017

    kle4 said:

    I think this is broadly comparable to Ed in the same timeframe in 2015

    April 21-22 40 26
    April 07-08 40 24
    March 24-25 39 21
    March 10-11 39 21
    February 24-25 38 19
    February 10-11 36 18
    January 27-28 39 20
    January 13-14 37 19

    Month - Date - DC - Ed

    Corbyn would be very happy to get an Ed M type result. And what a waste of opportunity from TMay that would be!
    Two differences

    *I think the difference would be CON on 36 and CON on 46ish. Big difference.

    *I'm commenting on the increase. In absolute terms, Corbyn is about 5 % behind Ed throughout.
    I didn't say I thought he'd achieve an Ed M result.
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    ProdicusProdicus Posts: 658

    Prodicus said:

    FPT

    Assuming we haven't left the EU by the time of the entry into Number 10 of JCICIPM, will EU law allow the execution of the fullness of his glorious manifesto?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Railway_Package
    Thank you.
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,712
    This is essentially the manifesto I wanted us to put forward in 2015. That's what I anticipated when we elected Ed in 2010.

    Instead we got "Vote Labour, win a microwave".

    We then had aspiring party leaders who offered more of the same, and Corbyn offering something different - obvious outcome.

    The last two years has had the effect of returning Labour to being an apologetically Socialist party. We are not going back to some sort of neo-New Labour. Now all we need is a leader who the voters see as their next PM, and starting in 2022 we might just be able to transform the country.

    (Sorry, I can't hang around to see your derision in response to the above)
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    BannedInParisBannedInParis Posts: 2,191
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    I think this is broadly comparable to Ed in the same timeframe in 2015

    April 21-22 40 26
    April 07-08 40 24
    March 24-25 39 21
    March 10-11 39 21
    February 24-25 38 19
    February 10-11 36 18
    January 27-28 39 20
    January 13-14 37 19

    Month - Date - DC - Ed

    Corbyn would be very happy to get an Ed M type result. And what a waste of opportunity from TMay that would be!
    Two differences

    *I think the difference would be CON on 36 and CON on 46ish. Big difference.

    *I'm commenting on the increase. In absolute terms, Corbyn is about 5 % behind Ed throughout.
    I didn't say I thought he'd achieve an Ed M result.
    for a number of reasons, I think his vote share won't be far off.

    this will not translate into seats.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,997
    What is specifically wrong with Jezza's expression in the photo ?
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,941

    @TomMcTague: Some Lab MPs at today's ClauseV meeting so furious with JC they were prepared to call on him to go. Have been persuaded not to by colleagues

    Ooooh.. they were pushed so far they almost said something out loud.

    Brave. Very brave.
    Surely it's tonight, after nominations have closed, that the sensibles formally break away and announce SDP2?
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    chestnut said:

    Blue_rog said:

    BoE revises growth to 1.9%

    And warned they may need to raise rates.
    Let's hope so.
    Although with house prices already falling and Brexit economic pain around the corner, May could have a crash on her hands. The next election might see the return of those repossession posters.
    I really hope it doesn't happen, and the economy post-referendum has pleasantly surprised me.

    But I do have a terribly ominous feeling. There has been a lot of cheap credit to keep things going, inflation is clearly heading up to some degree and interest rates may need to respond, the uncertainty over Brexit negotiations cannot help inward investment. Meanwhile, the deficit is stubbornly high and there's little or nothing spare to play with.

    I hope I'm wrong. I often have been in the past. But I do worry we're much closer to a cliff edge than is commonly perceived.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,787
    Best PM Rating - average

    2016
    May: 49
    Corbyn: 18

    2017 to date:
    May: 49
    Corbyn: 16

    'Strong & Stable' springs, unbidden, to mind.....
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,015
    Sandpit said:

    @TomMcTague: Some Lab MPs at today's ClauseV meeting so furious with JC they were prepared to call on him to go. Have been persuaded not to by colleagues

    Ooooh.. they were pushed so far they almost said something out loud.

    Brave. Very brave.
    Surely it's tonight, after nominations have closed, that the sensibles formally break away and announce SDP2?
    From that shower? When Lab are ticking up in the polls? Not likely.
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,205

    The expression on the face of the passenger is a hoot. Jeremy really doesn’t like the media.
    Not wholly sure but it doesn't look like Corbyn is wearing his seatbelt.
    Very good spot.
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    BaskervilleBaskerville Posts: 391
    Sandpit said:

    @TomMcTague: Some Lab MPs at today's ClauseV meeting so furious with JC they were prepared to call on him to go. Have been persuaded not to by colleagues

    Ooooh.. they were pushed so far they almost said something out loud.

    Brave. Very brave.
    Surely it's tonight, after nominations have closed, that the sensibles formally break away and announce SDP2?
    I've been suggesting this ever since the local elections:
    http://www.lifestuff.xyz/blog/labour-not-corbyn
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,616

    Interesting. Might get us membership of the single market and custom unions.

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/862615424856449024

    Vote Labour: Brexit doesn't mean Brexit.
    It's the Dan Hannan Brexit, didn't he say voting Leave wasn't voting to Leave the single market?
    No.
    Must be a different Dan Hannan who said

    'Absolutely nobody is talking about threatening our place in the Single Market'
    Do you have a source for that?

    Hannan has been pretty consistent in that he wanted us to join EFTA, which allows free movement of workers. He has always been at odds with the "official" Leave campaign on that, which has caused him some embarrassment, but I've never seen him say we should stay in the EEA.
    It's in the video in this article

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/open-britain-video-single-market-nigel-farage-anna-soubry_uk_582ce0a0e4b09025ba310fce
    I can't watch videos in my present position but Hannan has never advocated remaining inside the single market subject to ECJ rules.

    The guy has been talking about EFTA for over 20 years and doesn't have a problem with free movement.

    If you want to attack him for inconsistency attack him for that, whilst being on the Board of Vote Leave.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,015

    The expression on the face of the passenger is a hoot. Jeremy really doesn’t like the media.
    Not wholly sure but it doesn't look like Corbyn is wearing his seatbelt.
    Disgraceful. TMay's seatbelt is, at all times, strong an...well, you get it.
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    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 31,014
    edited May 2017

    It was reasonable to suggest that the UK could keep access to the Single Market, even though we stopped being members of it. The EU27 have since made very clear that the SM and free movement are indivisible and implied we cannot have full access to the SM because that would give us an advantage that we no longer deserve after departure. Hence, it is not Dan Hannan who has changed his position, it is the EU27 who have clarified theirs. I'm still hopeful that, so long as we can keep J-CJ locked in a cupboard, the grown ups can negotiate an FTA that gives us access to most of the SM.

    Interesting. Might get us membership of the single market and custom unions.

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/862615424856449024

    Vote Labour: Brexit doesn't mean Brexit.
    It's the Dan Hannan Brexit, didn't he say voting Leave wasn't voting to Leave the single market?
    Errrr, have you forgot this

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/evan-davis-newsnight-bbc-daniel-hannan-mep-eu-referendum-brexit_uk_576e2967e4b08d2c56393241
    These days Hannan is just an embarrassment to Leave. His lofty preferences are now in tatters. Leave supporters should just be honest and admit he was their clueless dupe, put in place to mislead us.
    Nope that's just the normal Remained bullshit we have come to expect from you. Hannan campaigned for exactly the same sort of Brexit as I did. One that maintained Single Market access including freedom of movement. It is still something thst is possible and it is a political decision by May not to go for that sort of Brexit. It is just the utter dishonesty of losers like you trying to rewrite history and pretend everyone was voting to leave because of immigration.
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    midwintermidwinter Posts: 1,112
    edited May 2017
    It's hardly surprising his ratings are improving. Banal and deluded though he and his policies may be at least he actually has some. We're still waiting for any from Mrs May apart from vague waffle re grammar schools, a cretinous rehash of a Miliband energy policy and support for fox hunting. Not impressed.
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    ProdicusProdicus Posts: 658



    Instead we got "Vote Labour, win a microwave".

    microwave owl.

    Fixed it for you.
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    chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341

    kle4 said:

    I think this is broadly comparable to Ed in the same timeframe in 2015

    April 21-22 40 26
    April 07-08 40 24
    March 24-25 39 21
    March 10-11 39 21
    February 24-25 38 19
    February 10-11 36 18
    January 27-28 39 20
    January 13-14 37 19

    Month - Date - DC - Ed

    Corbyn would be very happy to get an Ed M type result. And what a waste of opportunity from TMay that would be!
    Two differences

    *I think the difference would be CON on 36 and CON on 46ish. Big difference.

    *I'm commenting on the increase. In absolute terms, Corbyn is about 5 % behind Ed throughout.
    Today's YG: https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/fko52um47n/TimesResults_170510_VI_Trackers_W.pdf

    January when he was on 16: https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/bfe1jtcki8/TimesResults_170124_VI_Trackers_W.pdf

    The drift in the subsets is some firming up of the 2015 Lab vote (consistent with Wales/London polls) and some shift from Lib Dems to Lab.

    He's made no progress with 2015 Tory/Kipper voters.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,373

    chestnut said:

    Blue_rog said:

    BoE revises growth to 1.9%

    And warned they may need to raise rates.
    Let's hope so.
    Although with house prices already falling and Brexit economic pain around the corner, May could have a crash on her hands. The next election might see the return of those repossession posters.
    I really hope it doesn't happen, and the economy post-referendum has pleasantly surprised me.

    But I do have a terribly ominous feeling. There has been a lot of cheap credit to keep things going, inflation is clearly heading up to some degree and interest rates may need to respond, the uncertainty over Brexit negotiations cannot help inward investment. Meanwhile, the deficit is stubbornly high and there's little or nothing spare to play with.

    I hope I'm wrong. I often have been in the past. But I do worry we're much closer to a cliff edge than is commonly perceived.
    Which is why we are having an election!
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    Say what you like about Ed Miliband's campaign. But at least the Party's official monumental masons knew how to keep a secret back then. I'm not sure the obelisk carving business is the bastion of professional integrity and client confidentiality it was famed to be in 2015.
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,432
    edited May 2017
    "Comrades, this is your Leader. It is an honour to speak to you today, and I am honoured to be sailing with you on the maiden voyage of our Party's most recent achievement. Once more, we play our dangerous game, a game of chess against our old adversary — The Conservative Party. For a hundred years, your fathers before you and your older brothers played this game and played it well. But today the game is different. We have the advantage. It reminds me of the heady days of 1945 and Clement Attlee, when the world trembled at the sound of our Nationalisations! Well, they will tremble again — at the sound of our Glorious 2017 Manifesto. The order is: engage the Corbyn Drive!

    "Comrades, our own Parliamentary Party don't know our full potential. They will do everything possible to test us; but they will only test their own embarrassment. We will leave our MPs behind, we will pass through the Conservative patrols, past their sonar nets, and lay off their largest constituency, and listen to their chortling and tittering... while we conduct Austerity Debates! Then, and when we are finished, the only sound they will hear is our laughter, while we sail to Manchester, where the sun is warm, and so is the... Comradeship!

    "A great day, Comrades! We sail into history!"
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Interesting. Might get us membership of the single market and custom unions.

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/862615424856449024

    Vote Labour: Brexit doesn't mean Brexit.
    It's the Dan Hannan Brexit, didn't he say voting Leave wasn't voting to Leave the single market?
    No.
    Must be a different Dan Hannan who said

    'Absolutely nobody is talking about threatening our place in the Single Market'
    Do you have a source for that?

    Hannan has been pretty consistent in that he wanted us to join EFTA, which allows free movement of workers. He has always been at odds with the "official" Leave campaign on that, which has caused him some embarrassment, but I've never seen him say we should stay in the EEA.
    It's in the video in this article

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/open-britain-video-single-market-nigel-farage-anna-soubry_uk_582ce0a0e4b09025ba310fce
    The video that was completely dishonest, had no dates, took quotes out of context and was ripped to shreds by Andrew Neill on the Daily Politics? That video?
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Prodicus said:

    microwave owl.

    Fixed it for you.

    Labour's leaked manifesto allegedly contains £425bn of spending.

    And STILL no owls
  • Options
    ProdicusProdicus Posts: 658

    It was reasonable to suggest that the UK could keep access to the Single Market, even though we stopped being members of it. The EU27 have since made very clear that the SM and free movement are indivisible and implied we cannot have full access to the SM because that would give us an advantage that we no longer deserve after departure. Hence, it is not Dan Hannan who has changed his position, it is the EU27 who have clarified theirs. I'm still hopeful that, so long as we can keep J-CJ locked in a cupboard, the grown ups can negotiate an FTA that gives us access to most of the SM.

    Interesting. Might get us membership of the single market and custom unions.

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/862615424856449024

    Vote Labour: Brexit doesn't mean Brexit.
    It's the Dan Hannan Brexit, didn't he say voting Leave wasn't voting to Leave the single market?
    Errrr, have you forgot this

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/evan-davis-newsnight-bbc-daniel-hannan-mep-eu-referendum-brexit_uk_576e2967e4b08d2c56393241
    These days Hannan is just an embarrassment to Leave. His lofty preferences are now in tatters. Leave supporters should just be honest and admit he was their clueless dupe, put in place to mislead us.
    Nope that's just the normal Remained bullshit we have come to expect from you. Hannan campaigned for exactly the same sort of Brexit as I did. One that maintained Single Market access including freedom of movement. It is still something thst is possible and it is a political decision by May not to go for that sort of Brexit. It is just the utter dishonesty of losers like you trying to rewrite history and pretend everyone was voting to leave because of immigration.
    *like*
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    chestnut said:

    Blue_rog said:

    BoE revises growth to 1.9%

    And warned they may need to raise rates.
    Let's hope so.
    Although with house prices already falling and Brexit economic pain around the corner, May could have a crash on her hands. The next election might see the return of those repossession posters.
    I really hope it doesn't happen, and the economy post-referendum has pleasantly surprised me.

    But I do have a terribly ominous feeling. There has been a lot of cheap credit to keep things going, inflation is clearly heading up to some degree and interest rates may need to respond, the uncertainty over Brexit negotiations cannot help inward investment. Meanwhile, the deficit is stubbornly high and there's little or nothing spare to play with.

    I hope I'm wrong. I often have been in the past. But I do worry we're much closer to a cliff edge than is commonly perceived.
    Which is why we are having an election!
    Tru dat.

    I said it the other day, but it might yet be a "good one to lose" if it's less of an horrific blow out than many in Labour fear, but clear enough that Corbyn has to go.

    "Good one to lose" is in inverted commas because there are no good ones to lose, only less bad ones.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,005
    Mr. Baskerville, some of us have been suggesting a split for years now...
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,787
    Let us also not forget,

    Leader doing well/badly - net well:

    2017 to date:
    May: +21
    Corbyn: -55

    2016
    May: +24
    Corbyn: -35
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    I see that, once again, Leavers have always been at war with East Asia.
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,367
    edited May 2017
    chestnut said:

    kle4 said:

    I think this is broadly comparable to Ed in the same timeframe in 2015

    April 21-22 40 26
    April 07-08 40 24
    March 24-25 39 21
    March 10-11 39 21
    February 24-25 38 19
    February 10-11 36 18
    January 27-28 39 20
    January 13-14 37 19

    Month - Date - DC - Ed

    Corbyn would be very happy to get an Ed M type result. And what a waste of opportunity from TMay that would be!
    Two differences

    *I think the difference would be CON on 36 and CON on 46ish. Big difference.

    *I'm commenting on the increase. In absolute terms, Corbyn is about 5 % behind Ed throughout.
    Today's YG: https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/fko52um47n/TimesResults_170510_VI_Trackers_W.pdf

    January when he was on 16: https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/bfe1jtcki8/TimesResults_170124_VI_Trackers_W.pdf

    The drift in the subsets is some firming up of the 2015 Lab vote (consistent with Wales/London polls) and some shift from Lib Dems to Lab.

    He's made no progress with 2015 Tory/Kipper voters.
    Yes, that's exactly the impression I've been reporting from the doorstep - some firming, a bit of LD tactical voting (and without being rude, some disillusion with the perceived LD campaign - all about ultra-Remain plus gay sex sin debate, if there's a general message voters arn't seeing it), very little impact on Tories/UKIP yet. But Corbyn's not going down too badly with potential supporters, and in some cases very well - people can see he's about something, while May is seen as safe but empty.
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,261
    Pulpstar said:

    What is specifically wrong with Jezza's expression in the photo ?

    It's sort of Marxisty, Hamassy, ISIS loving.

    I think.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,005
    Labour has narrowed the gap in the polls. I'm concerned that Corbyn may be able to remain leader if that turns out to be accurate. Even if the PLP are sensible and (assuming they can't oust him) split, it could see a decade of complacent Conservative government coupled with no real opposition.
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    nunununu Posts: 6,024

    Interesting. Might get us membership of the single market and custom unions.

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/862615424856449024

    Vote Labour: Brexit doesn't mean Brexit.
    It's the Dan Hannan Brexit, didn't he say voting Leave wasn't voting to Leave the single market?
    No.
    Must be a different Dan Hannan who said

    'Absolutely nobody is talking about threatening our place in the Single Market'
    Do you have a source for that?

    Hannan has been pretty consistent in that he wanted us to join EFTA, which allows free movement of workers. He has always been at odds with the "official" Leave campaign on that, which has caused him some embarrassment, but I've never seen him say we should stay in the EEA.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xGt3QmRSZY&feature=youtu.be&t=11
    Andrew Niel already debunked that video.

    A very deceptive video by REMAIN, but then again that was their whole campaign.
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    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 31,014

    I see that, once again, Leavers have always been at war with East Asia.

    Nope. It's the Remoaners who are consistently trying to rewrite history. It says a lot about their cause that they feel this is the only way to fight Brexit.
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    ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133

    Interesting. Might get us membership of the single market and custom unions.

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/862615424856449024

    Vote Labour: Brexit doesn't mean Brexit.
    It's the Dan Hannan Brexit, didn't he say voting Leave wasn't voting to Leave the single market?
    No.
    Must be a different Dan Hannan who said

    'Absolutely nobody is talking about threatening our place in the Single Market'
    Do you have a source for that?

    Hannan has been pretty consistent in that he wanted us to join EFTA, which allows free movement of workers. He has always been at odds with the "official" Leave campaign on that, which has caused him some embarrassment, but I've never seen him say we should stay in the EEA.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xGt3QmRSZY&feature=youtu.be&t=11
    Why are we still talking about staying in the single market? That ship sailed in the autumn, when Remainers were too busy Remoaning to push for the EFTA-type solution that many of them now claim to want.
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,432
    Don't know about anybody else, but I voted LEAVE to leave the EU, to reverse events in 1973.
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    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    Scott_P said:
    The left hand photo seems to confirm my suspicions. Corbyn wasn't wearing a seatbelt. So what? Well, it is the law of the land that one must. If he feels himself above the law, that says something about the chap, something that isn't very good for someone who wants to tell the rest of us how to behave.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,015

    Scott_P said:
    The left hand photo seems to confirm my suspicions. Corbyn wasn't wearing a seatbelt. So what? Well, it is the law of the land that one must. If he feels himself above the law, that says something about the chap, something that isn't very good for someone who wants to tell the rest of us how to behave.
    I severely doubt he thinks he is above the law. More likely he is just a bit careless with details - didn't he mess up his tax returns two years on the trot or something?
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,786
    Pulpstar said:

    What is specifically wrong with Jezza's expression in the photo ?

    I don't get it either. The car you are travelling in has hit a pedestrian. Most people would be horrified.
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    dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    edited May 2017
    Scott_P said:
    Utterly inept - are they really fighting on a platform of tackling the scourge of camp tokers?
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    Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,323

    It was reasonable to suggest that the UK could keep access to the Single Market, even though we stopped being members of it. The EU27 have since made very clear that the SM and free movement are indivisible and implied we cannot have full access to the SM because that would give us an advantage that we no longer deserve after departure. Hence, it is not Dan Hannan who has changed his position, it is the EU27 who have clarified theirs. I'm still hopeful that, so long as we can keep J-CJ locked in a cupboard, the grown ups can negotiate an FTA that gives us access to most of the SM.

    Interesting. Might get us membership of the single market and custom unions.

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/862615424856449024

    Vote Labour: Brexit doesn't mean Brexit.
    It's the Dan Hannan Brexit, didn't he say voting Leave wasn't voting to Leave the single market?
    Errrr, have you forgot this

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/evan-davis-newsnight-bbc-daniel-hannan-mep-eu-referendum-brexit_uk_576e2967e4b08d2c56393241
    These days Hannan is just an embarrassment to Leave. His lofty preferences are now in tatters. Leave supporters should just be honest and admit he was their clueless dupe, put in place to mislead us.
    Nope that's just the normal Remained bullshit we have come to expect from you. Hannan campaigned for exactly the same sort of Brexit as I did. One that maintained Single Market access including freedom of movement. It is still something thst is possible and it is a political decision by May not to go for that sort of Brexit. It is just the utter dishonesty of losers like you trying to rewrite history and pretend everyone was voting to leave because of immigration.
    So May and the Tories are likely to scupper your and Hannan's noble vision of Brexit? That's a shame, but perhaps you should have taken the time to find out what the political realities of Brexit would actually be like. Poor research on your part.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,373
    Betfair say they have taken £2000 this morning on bets on Labour most seats.

    That's £2K less leaflet money for Momentum come the next leadership election this summer. Keep it up kids!
This discussion has been closed.