Hmm, interesting from Robert Peston:

Perhaps the most important thing for you to know is that ministers believe Germany and Merkel are behind what they see as sabotage by Juncker and Selmayr.

https://www.facebook.com/pestonitv/posts/1839163076408429

SeanT said:

Scott_P said:

@RemIsBuzzin: @PCollinsTimes @michaelgove No, she might well be right. It just makes her seems weak/paranoid to care so much. She should have been openly dismissive of Juncker.

So what's the Remoaner position, this minute? She's mad? She's David Icke? She's completely mad? She's wrong but it's cynical electioneering? She's wrong but it's tactics? She's right but it's the wrong tactic? What?

She's an ego-driven narcissist who has chosen the most high-risk approach to Brexit because she wants to outdo Cameron and go down in history.

@YvetteCooperMP: A weak & foolish thing for a Prime Minister to do. Certainly not stable. And so cynical, transparent & short termist, it's really not strong twitter.com/bbcnews/status…

MarqueeMark said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

John Woodcock reselected by his constituency party.

bye bye.....

I think he'll survive.

TheScreamingEagles said:

John Woodcock reselected by his constituency party.

Barrow & Furness LAB majority: 795 or 1.8%. - Looks like he has a battle on his hands.

felix said:

kle4 said:

May's overdoing the 'interfering' angle, but they leaked a damaging story for their own gain, turn about is fair play, as they say, so she is using it. The reports of increased demands and how delusional May is can only have been to damage her and push us to a hardest possible exit, and she's making use of that. I don't like it, but it is what it is, people can stop reaching for the smelling salts here, same as with the still a problem but hardly 'worst scandal in British history' election overspend stuff.

I agree - but if May has over-reacted we can judge it by what should now be a very welcome silence from the EU Commission as they demonstrate they are the bigger person in this spat.

Trouble is there are so many factions and institutions across the EU that someone will always respond in a way that the UK press will be delighted to report.

The actual negotiating team may want to de-escalate but the sheer number on numpties in EU-land means someone will always bite.

@jessicaelgot: Corbyn: "The PM wants to wrap the Conservative party in the Union Jack & distract attention from her government’s economic failure."


He's right, and it's working. At a cost to our future prosperity and happiness.

felix said:

Scott_P said:

It's interesting that those who are cheering Tezza for her belligerent stance, are also willing to praise her for chickening out of a live TV debate...

You will gain credibility when you criticize the idiot officials who leaked details of a private dinner. Until then you have none.

Scott was sitting on the fence during the EU referendum if you believe that.

Tykejohnno said:

Scott was sitting on the fence during the EU referendum if you believe that.

That's not true, but then you know that

Harry Cole @MrHarryCole
Selmayr: "Brexit cannot be a success as it is a sad and sorry event. But it can be managed in a professional and pragmatic way."

Pulpstar said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

MarqueeMark said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

John Woodcock reselected by his constituency party.

bye bye.....

I think he'll survive.

The odds look about right to me there. Personal votes simply aren't that strong.

Maybe.

surbiton said:

If this were to be true, then it shows how wrong the UK government was in their assessment of Merkel / Germany. Apparently, not to hurt their exports to the UK, they would be soft on the UK.

The Cameron government made that mistake, but I don't think this one is repeating it.

I'm (was) a European federalist and yet even I think 'Remoaners' need to take a long look at themselves. We're leaving, we should expect to get a good deal. The EU are our allies. All the 'Brexit cant be a success' talk is doing is causing division. We can be out of the club and yet still an ally of the EU.

Good on T May. They can't continue to disrespect us.

Arthur_Penny said:

Mortimer said:

So the EU have unilaterally decided:

- that the UK will have to bear costs of EU agencies relocating out of UK
- that the UK will have to settle the accounts for commitments
- BUT that the UK will have no right to any EU assets

They're living in cloud bloody cuckoo land, aren't they....

No - they are trying to set the rules of negotiation how they want them. At the moment, as I mentioned earlier, we are defining the rules of the game 'Brexit', not playing them.

The UK is not Greece.

Yet.

Strong and Unstable is the message

A wonderfully incoherent response from Jeremy Corbyn, where, in an attempt to lambast Theresa May, he somehow manages to argue that she's right that "there are those in Brussels who don’t want a deal."

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2017/may/03/general-election-2017-official-campaign-begins-politics-live

17:20

Richard_Nabavi said:

SeanT said:

Senior EU source: Yes, it's true, we're trying to undermine Theresa May and we have spies in every house on Downing Street

They're hardly going to admit it, are they?

She wants them to back off, and quit the leaking and bullying. So she's swung a punch. Fair enough.

TBH it's a no-lose move from her point of view. It will help keep her poll ratings up, and of course will have no deleterious effect on the negotiations, any more than their comments about the UK 'being on another galaxy' and 'Brexit cannot be a success' will be remembered by our side if and when the EU27 start actually negotiating. We are negotiating with grown-up politicians, or at least we hope so, not no-marks who harbour irrational grudges

What is clear, and a surprise to me, is that she's proving a more handbag-swinging PM than anyone expected.

Yes. And that is good news for UK plc.

DeClare said:

MarqueeMark said:

DeClare said:

You can get 3/1 from Coral for UKIP to win at least one seat, if the EU keep up their crazy rhetoric, that could become value.
As well as Clacton and Thurrock there are places further north where UKIP finished second in 2015 and where a swing from Labour towards Con and Lib/Dem might allow a strong UKIP candidate to nip through the middle.
The council elections tomorrow could provide clues.

Clue: UKIP are going to get hammered. And not in the sense of Farage down the pub....

Dunno, their percentage in 2015 was 12.9% the other day there was a poll in the Mail on Sunday showing 11% support, other polls have been lower but if the absurd EU rhetoric continues double figures could return to all polls.
The 12.9% was spread around the whole country and UKIP had a candidate in every seat in England and Wales, most of Scotland and some in Northern Ireland, this time there will be around 400 candidates with some no hope areas excluded and Brexiteers like Kate Hoey, Boris Johnson and others given a free ride.
As the Conservatives have had a lacklustre campaign so far, there is a possibility of UKIP winning a seat, the local elections could provide some information as to where.
This is a betting forum and I'm just saying that 3/1 could be good value and won't stick around if polls do shift.

I doubt they'll get near 11% as they aren't running in lots of seats, but 3/1 to win a seat is good value IMO. I don't think they should be that big to win Thurrock, and when you consider they are 13/2 in Hartlepool, 6/1 Heywood and Middleton, 7/2 Thurrock, and 9/1 Boston, then 3/1 seems alright

Richard_Nabavi said:

A wonderfully incoherent response from Jeremy Corbyn, where, in an attempt to lambast Theresa May, he somehow manages to argue that she's right that "there are those in Brussels who don’t want a deal."

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2017/may/03/general-election-2017-official-campaign-begins-politics-live

17:20

Would anyone rather have Corbyn conducting these negotiations here. I'm struggling to imagine ANYONE on this entire forum from Southam to Tyndall to William Glenn to Scott P would admit to doing so.

At the low end some here will state that it is a wash between the two, but I can't believe anyone HONESTLY thinks having Corbyn in there playing our hand would be a good thing. Maybe John McDonnell, possibly Diane Abbott - that'll be about it.

I'd be interested to note if anyone does believe of a forced choice of May/Corbyn that Corbyn would be superior, and the reasoning behind it.

Just as well Mutti hasn't got anything else on her plate:

These new entrants make up less than 2% of the German population, but constitute 9% of Germany's criminal population. They not only indulge in petty crime but have come to dominate serious and violent crime in Germany. Nearly 15% of all suspects charged with serious bodily harm, rapes and sexual assaults come from this group, the police crime report reveals.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-05-03/germany-hit-merkels-imported-crime-wave

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Gallowgate, interesting to hear your thoughts (as a federalist).

I am definitely not one of those. At the moment, a bit on the fence about whether May was wise to say what she did. However, I do think there's a lack of critical thinking from some in the media, when the EU leaks a spun version of events, lets rumours fly of their Danegeld demand rising from 60 to 100bn, and comes out with things like "Brexit cannot be a success".

Hmm.

Regardless of rights and wrongs, it is very important not to go into negotiations with the other side believing they can bully you, or having already let yourself be bullied by them.

DeClare said:

MarqueeMark said:

DeClare said:

You can get 3/1 from Coral for UKIP to win at least one seat, if the EU keep up their crazy rhetoric, that could become value.
As well as Clacton and Thurrock there are places further north where UKIP finished second in 2015 and where a swing from Labour towards Con and Lib/Dem might allow a strong UKIP candidate to nip through the middle.
The council elections tomorrow could provide clues.

Clue: UKIP are going to get hammered. And not in the sense of Farage down the pub....

Dunno, their percentage in 2015 was 12.9% the other day there was a poll in the Mail on Sunday showing 11% support, other polls have been lower but if the absurd EU rhetoric continues double figures could return to all polls.
The 12.9% was spread around the whole country and UKIP had a candidate in every seat in England and Wales, most of Scotland and some in Northern Ireland, this time there will be around 400 candidates with some no hope areas excluded and Brexiteers like Kate Hoey, Boris Johnson and others given a free ride.
As the Conservatives have had a lacklustre campaign so far, there is a possibility of UKIP winning a seat, the local elections could provide some information as to where.
This is a betting forum and I'm just saying that 3/1 could be good value and won't stick around if polls do shift.

Speaking as a left-leaning person who could not vote for a Labour party led by Mr Corbyn or anyone like him, that made me laugh out loud.

To my simple mind, the Conservative campaign seems to have been completed overshadowed by a series of spectacular own-goals from Labour.

Ben Wright @BBCBenWright
Juncker chief of staff @MartinSelmayr says his boss won't spend more than half an hour a week on Brexit. EU has other things to do

Before lunch or after lunch?

TheScreamingEagles said:

Pulpstar said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

MarqueeMark said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

John Woodcock reselected by his constituency party.

bye bye.....

I think he'll survive.

The odds look about right to me there. Personal votes simply aren't that strong.

Maybe.

A good constituency to judge the effect of personal votes will be Edgbaston. I expect a larger-than-average swing to the Tories as Gisela's personal vote unwinds.

RobD said:

CarlottaVance said:

Ben Wright @BBCBenWright
Juncker chief of staff @MartinSelmayr says his boss won't spend more than half an hour a week on Brexit. EU has other things to do

Before lunch or after lunch?

To be fair, and thank god, he is not leading the negotiations.

I doubt he'll be coming to dinner either.....

Of course, if our EU friends want to improve the atmosphere, they have a very simple means to do so. They just need to let it be known that they too don't recognise the figures of €50bn to €100bn which have appeared in the press, and that they expect the final figure to be sensible when compared with the UK's annual membership cost.

FrancisUrquhart said:

CarlottaVance said:

Just as well Mutti hasn't got anything else on her plate:

These new entrants make up less than 2% of the German population, but constitute 9% of Germany's criminal population. They not only indulge in petty crime but have come to dominate serious and violent crime in Germany. Nearly 15% of all suspects charged with serious bodily harm, rapes and sexual assaults come from this group, the police crime report reveals.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-05-03/germany-hit-merkels-imported-crime-wave

I wonder what the stats are for Sweden? Oh wait nobody is allowed to know cos it is racialist.

It is worth remembering, of course, that demographics make it inevitable that immigrants will make up a higher proportion of criminals. The majority of crimes in any country are committed by men aged 16 to 25. Immigrants are disproportionately men aged 16 to 25 - not because of criminality, but because it's a lot easier to move your life before you settle down and have children.

Rather than comparing to the general population, you need to compare crime rates for Swedish and German men aged 16 to 25.

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Gallowgate, interesting to hear your thoughts (as a federalist).

I am definitely not one of those. At the moment, a bit on the fence about whether May was wise to say what she did. However, I do think there's a lack of critical thinking from some in the media, when the EU leaks a spun version of events, lets rumours fly of their Danegeld demand rising from 60 to 100bn, and comes out with things like "Brexit cannot be a success".

Hmm.

Certainly. Prior to the referendum and for many years prior, I wanted ultimately that we would fully integrate. That meant the Euro, Schengen and to take a lead role in the EU like Germany. That doesn't mean I didn't think the EU needed reform, but that ultimately that the federalism vision was a good one.

However, since the referendum, I've come to terms with the fact that this isn't Britain's destiny and that Europe (the continent) needs to make the best of it.

I don't like the scornful and spiteful rhetoric coming from certain people within the EU establishment. I also don't like the rhetoric coming from people from the 'liberal elite' that our nation is nothing and that we should just bend over and take our punishment. European countries should be our allies, and we should be theirs. We should reach a mutually beneficial deal and be done with it.

I'm a member of the Lib Dems, have been a Labour member in the past and have never ever voted Conservative, but May's pragmatism as someone who (allegedly) voted to remain to try and make the best of the situation is very endearing. I think it will win her a lot of votes. She isn't talking our nation down, unlike some people.

Gallowgate said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Gallowgate, interesting to hear your thoughts (as a federalist).

I am definitely not one of those. At the moment, a bit on the fence about whether May was wise to say what she did. However, I do think there's a lack of critical thinking from some in the media, when the EU leaks a spun version of events, lets rumours fly of their Danegeld demand rising from 60 to 100bn, and comes out with things like "Brexit cannot be a success".

Hmm.

Certainly. Prior to the referendum and for many years prior, I wanted ultimately that we would fully integrate. That meant the Euro, Schengen and to take a lead role in the EU like Germany. That doesn't mean I didn't think the EU needed reform, but that ultimately that the federalism vision was a good one.

However, since the referendum, I've come to terms with the fact that this isn't Britain's destiny and that Europe (the continent) needs to make the best of it.

I don't like the scornful and spiteful rhetoric coming from certain people within the EU establishment. I also don't like the rhetoric coming from people from the 'liberal elite' that our nation is nothing and that we should just bend over and take our punishment. European countries should be our allies, and we should be theirs. We should reach a mutually beneficial deal and be done with it.

I'm a member of the Lib Dems, have been a Labour member in the past and have never ever voted Conservative, but May's pragmatism as someone who (allegedly) voted to remain to try and make the best of the situation is very endearing. I think it will win her a lot of votes. She isn't talking our nation down, unlike some people.

+1

AnneJGP said:

DeClare said:

MarqueeMark said:

DeClare said:

You can get 3/1 from Coral for UKIP to win at least one seat, if the EU keep up their crazy rhetoric, that could become value.
As well as Clacton and Thurrock there are places further north where UKIP finished second in 2015 and where a swing from Labour towards Con and Lib/Dem might allow a strong UKIP candidate to nip through the middle.
The council elections tomorrow could provide clues.

Clue: UKIP are going to get hammered. And not in the sense of Farage down the pub....

Dunno, their percentage in 2015 was 12.9% the other day there was a poll in the Mail on Sunday showing 11% support, other polls have been lower but if the absurd EU rhetoric continues double figures could return to all polls.
The 12.9% was spread around the whole country and UKIP had a candidate in every seat in England and Wales, most of Scotland and some in Northern Ireland, this time there will be around 400 candidates with some no hope areas excluded and Brexiteers like Kate Hoey, Boris Johnson and others given a free ride.
As the Conservatives have had a lacklustre campaign so far, there is a possibility of UKIP winning a seat, the local elections could provide some information as to where.
This is a betting forum and I'm just saying that 3/1 could be good value and won't stick around if polls do shift.

Speaking as a left-leaning person who could not vote for a Labour party led by Mr Corbyn or anyone like him, that made me laugh out loud.

To my simple mind, the Conservative campaign seems to have been completed overshadowed by a series of spectacular own-goals from Labour.

Yep - lacklustre beats lackwit.

Carolus_Rex said:

Tykejohnno said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

‪I bet Theresa May has an enemies list too. ‬

Are you on it ;-)

He'll be gutted if he isn't in the top 10.

What was Paul Newman's greatest achievement?