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Mr. G, indeed. More ships, fewer admirals.
It smacks a bit of Eastern Roman tinkering. An early emperor reduced the numbers in a legion to 1,000. Not for a military reason, but so the roll call of legions would sound more impressive because it'd be longer.0 -
A colony in which the people have as many rights as anyone else living the UK? Under that logic we could all say we're colonists.malcolmg said:
Not if you are a colony like Scotland, only England can chuck them out.Charles said:
And the great thing is if voters dislike living under a "low tax low public spending Atlanticist" government they can kick them out at the next electionSouthamObserver said:
The right wing Tory Brexiteer fantasy is undoubtedly a low tax, low regulation, low public spending Atanticist island that is as cut off from Europe as possible. Funnily enough, they never spell this out to voters. They seek to achieve it by stealth.Casino_Royale said:
The UK has a permanent seat on the UN Security Council, skilled diplomats, capable armed forces, effective intelligence services, the best sigint agency in the world, and considerable expertise on fighting terrorism and organised crime. We are a member of five eyes. We make a considerable contribution to European security via co-operation on policing, intelligence, defence and foreign policy. We have a world-class air force, logistics and naval resources. We help secure the Med, and both Gibraltar and Cyprus are key. And we participate in the European Arrest Warrant, Europol, Eurojust and the Schengen databases.Ishmael_Z said:
You are just repeating in what you hope are more emotive terms an argument which has already been debunked. But anyway the most likely outcome is: we make it as safe as it is now for tens of millions of British citizens to live, work and travel in Europe, and Europe makes it safe for tens of millions of European citizens to live, work and travel in Britain.SouthamObserver said:
So we just make it less safe for tens of millions of British citizens to live, work and travel in Europe?
When I consider the word "reciprocity" I ask myself whether there is a four-syllable upper bound on concepts which remainers are able to process.
The UK and EU deciding not to comprehensively cooperate in security matters would not be preferable for either the UK or the EU.
It would hurt the EU far more. That makes it a card.
We know the EU are worried about it because of the level of protestation they made on the A50 letter, despite it being gently mentioned only a handful of times, just as we know they are also worried about the UK becoming an offshore Singapore, as they put a comprehensive anti-dumping clause in their draft European Council negotiating guidelines as well.0 -
He would think about maybe abstaining. Sillars will say anything to get in the papers.Luckyguy1983 said:
No doubt true, but he has thus far been an indy-supporting bitter old wanker, so for that reason alone his current stance is interesting.Alistair said:
Malcolm think Sillars is a bitter old wanker.Luckyguy1983 said:
Morning Malcolm. What do you think about Jim Sillars' view that Scotland should not leave the UK to rejoin the EU?malcolmg said:
The delusion and hatred of foreigners and how we can do the dirty on them here illustrates just how far this country has fallen. Is it any wonder the UK is circling the drain.IanB2 said:
Some people seem only to be able to think of 'cards' in the sense of things we have to threaten or take away, rather than things we have to offer.AlastairMeeks said:
Your interest may be satiated if I get time to put together a thread header on the subject.RobD said:
I'd be interested to hear what you think those are, especially give your stance on Brexit.AlastairMeeks said:
Britain has some useful cards in a generally poor hand. It is not playing them at all yet.
He was a failure as part of the SNP leadership, his strategy got the SNP no where close to a referendum and he harbours deep bitterness that the gradualist wing is in power and producing results.0 -
I think the one thing that almost everyone here agrees with, is that there's far too many fat suits in brass hats crawling around the MoD, mostly getting in the way while waiting for retirement.malcolmg said:
Hurst , but not much, given we have twice as many Admirals as we have ships there is something very wrong.HurstLlama said:
A bit of an exaggeration there, Mr. G., but I agree with your general point. To call the present state of the RN as a disgrace is like describing gang rape as a mild social deviation.malcolmg said:
Hurst, must idle most of the time given the dearth of ships we have in our "navy" nowadays, can we even call it that any more. Swiss probably have more ships than UK.HurstLlama said:
Mr. D., I read that article as saying the US submarine was paying a planned visit to Gibraltar (probably to give its crew some fresh air and a chance to go out on the pop) and whilst there took the opportunity to fix some bit of kit that had gone wrong.RobD said:
That isn't what this article suggests, it isn't just restocking operations.
http://chronicle.gi/2016/02/mod-confirms-non-nuclear-maintenance-on-us-submarine/
Nuclear attack boats are often at sea for extended periods, commonly much longer than the ballistic missile boats, which work to a regular schedule. So a safe port where they can put in, restock and give the crew a chance to let off steam in a safe environment and get kit fixed, probably does count as servicing. The same of course applies to the surface fleets of both navies.
Dura_Ace, I think, probably knows more about this than any of us, but it is my understanding that Gibraltar was, and maybe still is, the first and last port of call for RN ships heading South or East.0 -
Morning, I have not seen anything on it at all and was talking about him with G earlier in week. For me he is yesterday's man and has been for 20 years. His standard position is to be against whatever the SNP are for nowadays, nobody up here listens to a word he says. Where was the article and I will have a read at it.Luckyguy1983 said:
Morning Malcolm. What do you think about Jim Sillars' view that Scotland should not leave the UK to rejoin the EU?malcolmg said:
The delusion and hatred of foreigners and how we can do the dirty on them here illustrates just how far this country has fallen. Is it any wonder the UK is circling the drain.IanB2 said:
Some people seem only to be able to think of 'cards' in the sense of things we have to threaten or take away, rather than things we have to offer.AlastairMeeks said:
Your interest may be satiated if I get time to put together a thread header on the subject.RobD said:
I'd be interested to hear what you think those are, especially give your stance on Brexit.AlastairMeeks said:
Britain has some useful cards in a generally poor hand. It is not playing them at all yet.0 -
Cannot wait for that, even more steel from China that we already buy and we can cause more starvation and poverty in AfricaSandpit said:
The EU don't think it's fine for the UK go down that route on their doorstep though!Awb683 said:Low tax, low regulation and low public spending sounds fine to me!!
Once we leave their protective cocoon, we can buy our food from Africa and our steel from China if we want, to give two examples of trade advantage in a post-Brexit UK.0 -
MalcolmG is an alias in honour of Malcolm X and Mahatma " Malcolm " Gandhi.FrankBooth said:
A colony in which the people have as many rights as anyone else living the UK? Under that logic we could all say we're colonists.malcolmg said:
Not if you are a colony like Scotland, only England can chuck them out.Charles said:
And the great thing is if voters dislike living under a "low tax low public spending Atlanticist" government they can kick them out at the next electionSouthamObserver said:
The right wing Tory Brexiteer fantasy is undoubtedly a low tax, low regulation, low public spending Atanticist island that is as cut off from Europe as possible. Funnily enough, they never spell this out to voters. They seek to achieve it by stealth.Casino_Royale said:
The UK has a permanent seat on the UN Security Council, skilled diplomats, capable armed forces, effective intelligence services, the best sigint agency in the world, and considerable expertise on fighting terrorism and organised crime. We are a member of five eyes. We make a considerable contribution to European security via co-operation on policing, intelligence, defence and foreign policy. We have a world-class air force, logistics and naval resources. We help secure the Med, and both Gibraltar and Cyprus are key. And we participate in the European Arrest Warrant, Europol, Eurojust and the Schengen databases.Ishmael_Z said:
You are just repeating in what you hope are more emotive terms an argument which has already been debunked. But anyway the most likely outcome is: we make it as safe as it is now for tens of millions of British citizens to live, work and travel in Europe, and Europe makes it safe for tens of millions of European citizens to live, work and travel in Britain.SouthamObserver said:
So we just make it less safe for tens of millions of British citizens to live, work and travel in Europe?
When I consider the word "reciprocity" I ask myself whether there is a four-syllable upper bound on concepts which remainers are able to process.
The UK and EU deciding not to comprehensively cooperate in security matters would not be preferable for either the UK or the EU.
It would hurt the EU far more. That makes it a card.
We know the EU are worried about it because of the level of protestation they made on the A50 letter, despite it being gently mentioned only a handful of times, just as we know they are also worried about the UK becoming an offshore Singapore, as they put a comprehensive anti-dumping clause in their draft European Council negotiating guidelines as well.0 -
Not bad for team blue!Black_Rook said:twitter.com/NCPoliticsUK/status/848464943921987584
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How many are UKIP defending?Black_Rook said:0 -
@RobD I'd be interested to hear what you think those are, especially give your stance on Brexit.<AlastairMeeks said:
Britain has some useful cards in a generally poor hand. It is not playing them at all yet.
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In my view, it's the more "soft power" ones. Britain, like Germany, Sweden and Poland for example are strongly Atlanticist. Britain could act as something of bridge, which it was doing before. It is firm on Russia, which is a big issue for a number of cointries. It can offer something on security.
The problem is that Theresa May in particular has taken a resolutely transactional approach. Britain will lose those battles every time with the EU. She should go for a bigger picture approach: how can we work together? what can we offer you?0 -
Alanbrooke. It was St. Augustine of Hippo who reportedly prayed, "Lord give me chastity and continence, but not yet."Alanbrooke said:
St Columbas prayerBeverley_C said:
Indeed. One of the reasons that the Good Friday Agreement was an easy sell in the South is because most of the population in the RoI is quite content for the North to exist separately. Surveys show that while people talk about uniting the island of Ireland not many actually wanted to happen.Alanbrooke said:the South would be bricking itself
1 million bitter and twisted brits holding the balance of power, or hand the keys to the mafioso murder band in SF.
either way it would trash the place.
While the North has much less land it adds 40% to the population and the politcal structures of the south can no longer work as they did.
you cannot have a fully devolved government in Northern Ireland as long as the choice is between the Mob and a theocracy. Neither will work.
give me unity, but not just yet
AM. Thanks for the betting article. Good to see some percentage chances being analysed in a thread header.0 -
These things don't operate in isolation. The Tories got some votes by pointing out that Labour could only reach Number Ten with the support of the separatists. If Scotland had been on the point of returning 50 Labour MPs, that argument wouldn't have worked.Alistair said:
Errr, given the Tories have a majority how could 50 SNP to Lab transfer have stopped a Tory Majority?Charles said:
Not true. Scotland made the choice not to have a Labour government in 2015. With 50 more Labour MPs (and 50 fewer SNP) Ed Miliband would be PM and we wouldn't be leaving the EU.malcolmg said:
Not if you are a colony like Scotland, only England can chuck them out.Charles said:
And the great thing is if voters dislike living under a "low tax low public spending Atlanticist" government they can kick them out at the next electionSouthamObserver said:
The right wing Tory Brexiteer fantasy is undoubtedly a low tax, low regulation, low public spending Atanticist island that is as cut off from Europe as possible. Funnily enough, they never spell this out to voters. They seek to achieve it by stealth.Casino_Royale said:The UK has a permanent seat on the UN Security Council, skilled diplomats, capable armed forces, effective intelligence services, the best sigint agency in the world, and considerable expertise on fighting terrorism and organised crime. We are a member of five eyes. We make a considerable contribution to European security via co-operation on policing, intelligence, defence and foreign policy. We have a world-class air force, logistics and naval resources. We help secure the Med, and both Gibraltar and Cyprus are key. And we participate in the European Arrest Warrant, Europol, Eurojust and the Schengen databases.
The UK and EU deciding not to comprehensively cooperate in security matters would not be preferable for either the UK or the EU.
It would hurt the EU far more. That makes it a card.
We know the EU are worried about it because of the level of protestation they made on the A50 letter, despite it being gently mentioned only a handful of times, just as we know they are also worried about the UK becoming an offshore Singapore, as they put a comprehensive anti-dumping clause in their draft European Council negotiating guidelines as well.0 -
It will not change who will pay the bill, it will be the public. I can just see them lining up to pay their £80 just to change their passport colour and cock a snoot at Johnny Foreigner. That will show the EU.Charles said:
That's what they charge...malcolmg said:
passports are about £80 a pop nowadays at leastCharles said:
I can believe GBP10 x 50m passports but it's only what it would cost for 50m red onesRobD said:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/02/blue-passports-make-return-home-office-500-million-post-brexit/
Isn't the £500mn bill bonkers??
(But it could easily be the annual flow coat not the stock replacement cost - I have no idea)0 -
Ruth mentioned the Tories once but I think she got away with it.
https://twitter.com/kwr66/status/848134076741689345
Probably something subliminal about using Kipper purple mind.0 -
I think the EU has done us a favour in taking Gibraltar off the table during the negotiations. Had they not done so, Spain could have held up the negotiations as we approached the exit to WTO to extract concessions on the status of Gibraltar.
"After the United Kingdom leaves the Union, no agreement between the EU and the United Kingdom may apply to the territory of Gibraltar without the agreement between the Kingdom of Spain and the United Kingdom."
So Gibraltar will leave the EU (it isn't currently part of the customs union anyway) and the border conditions and free trade agreement for Gibraltar will need the agreement of Spain (which makes practical sense). But it won't hold up the main agreement which it would have done without this statement.
It is taking leverage away from Spain, not us.0 -
If anything it looks like a standard design used by all parties:Theuniondivvie said:Ruth mentioned the Tories once but I think she got away with it.
https://twitter.com/kwr66/status/848134076741689345
Probably something subliminal about using Kipper purple mind.
http://aberdeensnp.org/sites/default/files/images/McDonald, Mark_ Constituency office.jpg
And another, more colorful version:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C0XQd4TXUAARl4_.jpg0 -
How is Scotland a colony? You've not been conquered, and you voted to stay in the UK.malcolmg said:
Not if you are a colony like Scotland, only England can chuck them out.Charles said:And the great thing is if voters dislike living under a "low tax low public spending Atlanticist" government they can kick them out at the next election
I mean, granted, it could all have been down to Barnett, but it was still a free vote, won by a clear 10% margin.
********
"We asked the one-time Scottish National Party leader and now Westminster MP about the different heritage with Irish republicanism and why there had never even been a trace of violence in Scottish nationalism.
Mr Salmond replied: “Different traditions. Scotland was never oppressed, or at least not all of Scotland. There were parts of Scotland obviously had a rough time within the Union, the highland clearances."
“It was a partner in Union as opposed to being colonised or planted so it is a different history and different experience."
http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/alex-salmond/salmond-scots-nationalism-not-violent-due-to-no-oppression-1-4404744
There you go: "partners in Union," not a colony.0 -
I've noticed it a few times in London, with Labour party offices not naming the party. I assumed it was something to do with taxpayer funding / the fact that once thy elected they represent everyone. (However they did use red a bit.))RobD said:
If anything it looks like a standard design used by all parties:Theuniondivvie said:Ruth mentioned the Tories once but I think she got away with it.
https://twitter.com/kwr66/status/848134076741689345
Probably something subliminal about using Kipper purple mind.
http://aberdeensnp.org/sites/default/files/images/McDonald, Mark_ Constituency office.jpg
And another, more colorful version:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C0XQd4TXUAARl4_.jpg0 -
The leverage comes from the effect on domestic UK politics. If we look like leaving Gibraltar out in the cold it will weaken May.Barnesian said:It is taking leverage away from Spain, not us.
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Ha! Indeed, a quick Google looks like they have a standard purple facade for a number of MSP offices, with no mention of party affiliation on any of them!RobD said:
If anything it looks like a standard design used by all parties:Theuniondivvie said:Ruth mentioned the Tories once but I think she got away with it.
https://twitter.com/kwr66/status/848134076741689345
Probably something subliminal about using Kipper purple mind.
http://aberdeensnp.org/sites/default/files/images/McDonald, Mark_ Constituency office.jpg
And another, more colorful version:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C0XQd4TXUAARl4_.jpg0 -
Replies to the tweet suggest that parties aren't allowed to brand their constituency officesRobD said:
If anything it looks like a standard design used by all parties:Theuniondivvie said:Ruth mentioned the Tories once but I think she got away with it.
https://twitter.com/kwr66/status/848134076741689345
Probably something subliminal about using Kipper purple mind.
http://aberdeensnp.org/sites/default/files/images/McDonald, Mark_ Constituency office.jpg
And another, more colorful version:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C0XQd4TXUAARl4_.jpg0 -
Probably paid for by the Parliament - cheaper to change the name if the MSP changes than redecorate the entire thing.Sandpit said:
Ha! Indeed, a quick Google looks like they have a standard purple facade for a number of MSP offices, with no mention of party affiliation on any of them!RobD said:
If anything it looks like a standard design used by all parties:Theuniondivvie said:Ruth mentioned the Tories once but I think she got away with it.
https://twitter.com/kwr66/status/848134076741689345
Probably something subliminal about using Kipper purple mind.
http://aberdeensnp.org/sites/default/files/images/McDonald, Mark_ Constituency office.jpg
And another, more colorful version:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C0XQd4TXUAARl4_.jpg0 -
That leverage can be neutralised by the UK downplaying the issue in the way I have. "It is just a local practical issue that can be sorted out later". Instead they make a big fuss about it, increasing the leverage. Stupid.williamglenn said:
The leverage comes from the effect on domestic UK politics. If we look like leaving Gibraltar out in the cold it will weaken May.Barnesian said:It is taking leverage away from Spain, not us.
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Unfortunately not any longer. We are expected to do exactly what St Theresa says so our partnership is broken. We are now being treated like a colony.Black_Rook said:
How is Scotland a colony? You've not been conquered, and you voted to stay in the UK.malcolmg said:
Not if you are a colony like Scotland, only England can chuck them out.Charles said:And the great thing is if voters dislike living under a "low tax low public spending Atlanticist" government they can kick them out at the next election
I mean, granted, it could all have been down to Barnett, but it was still a free vote, won by a clear 10% margin.
********
"We asked the one-time Scottish National Party leader and now Westminster MP about the different heritage with Irish republicanism and why there had never even been a trace of violence in Scottish nationalism.
Mr Salmond replied: “Different traditions. Scotland was never oppressed, or at least not all of Scotland. There were parts of Scotland obviously had a rough time within the Union, the highland clearances."
“It was a partner in Union as opposed to being colonised or planted so it is a different history and different experience."
http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/alex-salmond/salmond-scots-nationalism-not-violent-due-to-no-oppression-1-4404744
There you go: "partners in Union," not a colony.0 -
It is so they don't have to keep replacing the windows, they have to make it look like anything other than a Tory office. Despite the delusion on here, they are still reviled in Scotland.RobD said:
Probably paid for by the Parliament - cheaper to change the name if the MSP changes than redecorate the entire thing.Sandpit said:
Ha! Indeed, a quick Google looks like they have a standard purple facade for a number of MSP offices, with no mention of party affiliation on any of them!RobD said:
If anything it looks like a standard design used by all parties:Theuniondivvie said:Ruth mentioned the Tories once but I think she got away with it.
https://twitter.com/kwr66/status/848134076741689345
Probably something subliminal about using Kipper purple mind.
http://aberdeensnp.org/sites/default/files/images/McDonald, Mark_ Constituency office.jpg
And another, more colorful version:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C0XQd4TXUAARl4_.jpg0 -
Stop being cheeky. It's due to the fact no MSP can put their party/colors on their offices.malcolmg said:
It is so they don't have to keep replacing the windows, they have to make it look like anything other than a Tory office. Despite the delusion on here, they are still reviled in Scotland.RobD said:
Probably paid for by the Parliament - cheaper to change the name if the MSP changes than redecorate the entire thing.Sandpit said:
Ha! Indeed, a quick Google looks like they have a standard purple facade for a number of MSP offices, with no mention of party affiliation on any of them!RobD said:
If anything it looks like a standard design used by all parties:Theuniondivvie said:Ruth mentioned the Tories once but I think she got away with it.
https://twitter.com/kwr66/status/848134076741689345
Probably something subliminal about using Kipper purple mind.
http://aberdeensnp.org/sites/default/files/images/McDonald, Mark_ Constituency office.jpg
And another, more colorful version:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C0XQd4TXUAARl4_.jpg
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On my Invincible and Ark Royal cruises in the Med if one hadn't manage to get crabs in Malta or Sigonella then Gibraltar was the last chance before Portsmouth.HurstLlama said:
Dura_Ace, I think, probably knows more about this than any of us, but it is my understanding that Gibraltar was, and maybe still is, the first and last port of call for RN ships heading South or East.0 -
Exactly! Neither the rest of the EU nor the UK want Spain to hold the Brexit deal to hostage over Gibraltar. The UK government can hardly admit to being pleased to wash their hands of Gibraltar, of course...Barnesian said:I think the EU has done us a favour in taking Gibraltar off the table during the negotiations. Had they not done so, Spain could have held up the negotiations as we approached the exit to WTO to extract concessions on the status of Gibraltar.
"After the United Kingdom leaves the Union, no agreement between the EU and the United Kingdom may apply to the territory of Gibraltar without the agreement between the Kingdom of Spain and the United Kingdom."
So Gibraltar will leave the EU (it isn't currently part of the customs union anyway) and the border conditions and free trade agreement for Gibraltar will need the agreement of Spain (which makes practical sense). But it won't hold up the main agreement which it would have done without this statement.
It is taking leverage away from Spain, not us.0 -
It only seems like that to those who have the mental age of a generation.malcolmg said:
Unfortunately not any longer. We are expected to do exactly what St Theresa says so our partnership is broken. We are now being treated like a colony.Black_Rook said:
How is Scotland a colony? You've not been conquered, and you voted to stay in the UK.malcolmg said:
Not if you are a colony like Scotland, only England can chuck them out.Charles said:And the great thing is if voters dislike living under a "low tax low public spending Atlanticist" government they can kick them out at the next election
I mean, granted, it could all have been down to Barnett, but it was still a free vote, won by a clear 10% margin.
********
"We asked the one-time Scottish National Party leader and now Westminster MP about the different heritage with Irish republicanism and why there had never even been a trace of violence in Scottish nationalism.
Mr Salmond replied: “Different traditions. Scotland was never oppressed, or at least not all of Scotland. There were parts of Scotland obviously had a rough time within the Union, the highland clearances."
“It was a partner in Union as opposed to being colonised or planted so it is a different history and different experience."
http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/alex-salmond/salmond-scots-nationalism-not-violent-due-to-no-oppression-1-4404744
There you go: "partners in Union," not a colony.0 -
Typical Tories, everybody has to suffer just to save the Tories replacing their windows every week.RobD said:
Stop being cheeky. It's due to the fact no MSP can put their party/colors on their offices.malcolmg said:
It is so they don't have to keep replacing the windows, they have to make it look like anything other than a Tory office. Despite the delusion on here, they are still reviled in Scotland.RobD said:
Probably paid for by the Parliament - cheaper to change the name if the MSP changes than redecorate the entire thing.Sandpit said:
Ha! Indeed, a quick Google looks like they have a standard purple facade for a number of MSP offices, with no mention of party affiliation on any of them!RobD said:
If anything it looks like a standard design used by all parties:Theuniondivvie said:Ruth mentioned the Tories once but I think she got away with it.
https://twitter.com/kwr66/status/848134076741689345
Probably something subliminal about using Kipper purple mind.
http://aberdeensnp.org/sites/default/files/images/McDonald, Mark_ Constituency office.jpg
And another, more colorful version:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C0XQd4TXUAARl4_.jpg0 -
What's the phrase, 'joyous and civic'?malcolmg said:
Typical Tories, everybody has to suffer just to save the Tories replacing their windows every week.RobD said:
Stop being cheeky. It's due to the fact no MSP can put their party/colors on their offices.malcolmg said:
It is so they don't have to keep replacing the windows, they have to make it look like anything other than a Tory office. Despite the delusion on here, they are still reviled in Scotland.RobD said:
Probably paid for by the Parliament - cheaper to change the name if the MSP changes than redecorate the entire thing.Sandpit said:
Ha! Indeed, a quick Google looks like they have a standard purple facade for a number of MSP offices, with no mention of party affiliation on any of them!RobD said:
If anything it looks like a standard design used by all parties:Theuniondivvie said:Ruth mentioned the Tories once but I think she got away with it.
https://twitter.com/kwr66/status/848134076741689345
Probably something subliminal about using Kipper purple mind.
http://aberdeensnp.org/sites/default/files/images/McDonald, Mark_ Constituency office.jpg
And another, more colorful version:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C0XQd4TXUAARl4_.jpg
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That's the most plausible reason - that the Parliament itself rents an office in each town for the MSP(s) to work out of.RobD said:
Probably paid for by the Parliament - cheaper to change the name if the MSP changes than redecorate the entire thing.Sandpit said:
Ha! Indeed, a quick Google looks like they have a standard purple facade for a number of MSP offices, with no mention of party affiliation on any of them!RobD said:
If anything it looks like a standard design used by all parties:Theuniondivvie said:Ruth mentioned the Tories once but I think she got away with it.
https://twitter.com/kwr66/status/848134076741689345
Probably something subliminal about using Kipper purple mind.
http://aberdeensnp.org/sites/default/files/images/McDonald, Mark_ Constituency office.jpg
And another, more colorful version:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C0XQd4TXUAARl4_.jpg
I remember a feature of the MP expenses scandal was how many were renting offices from the local party at higher-than-expected rents, so better for the taxpayer to do it centrally.0 -
Yep, and it's a central part of their job, so fair enough for it to be paid for centrally.Sandpit said:
That's the most plausible reason - that the Parliament itself rents an office in each town for the MSP(s) to work out of.RobD said:
Probably paid for by the Parliament - cheaper to change the name if the MSP changes than redecorate the entire thing.Sandpit said:
Ha! Indeed, a quick Google looks like they have a standard purple facade for a number of MSP offices, with no mention of party affiliation on any of them!RobD said:
If anything it looks like a standard design used by all parties:Theuniondivvie said:Ruth mentioned the Tories once but I think she got away with it.
https://twitter.com/kwr66/status/848134076741689345
Probably something subliminal about using Kipper purple mind.
http://aberdeensnp.org/sites/default/files/images/McDonald, Mark_ Constituency office.jpg
And another, more colorful version:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C0XQd4TXUAARl4_.jpg
I remember a feature of the MP expenses scandal was how many were renting offices from the local party at higher-than-expected rents, so better for the taxpayer to do it centrally.0 -
Agree with the conclusion - and i like the style of the piece but a bit dubious about the use of probabilities.
These are not really independent events... For instance- If Fillon does unexpectedly well - he may be taking votes disproportionately from one of the other front runners...
He also seems to be suggesting chances of a MLP win are very similar to that of Melanchon... Which seems unlikely to be true.0 -
Really?RobD said:
Stop being cheeky. It's due to the fact no MSP can put their party/colors on their offices.malcolmg said:
It is so they don't have to keep replacing the windows, they have to make it look like anything other than a Tory office. Despite the delusion on here, they are still reviled in Scotland.RobD said:
Probably paid for by the Parliament - cheaper to change the name if the MSP changes than redecorate the entire thing.Sandpit said:
Ha! Indeed, a quick Google looks like they have a standard purple facade for a number of MSP offices, with no mention of party affiliation on any of them!RobD said:
If anything it looks like a standard design used by all parties:Theuniondivvie said:Ruth mentioned the Tories once but I think she got away with it.
https://twitter.com/kwr66/status/848134076741689345
Probably something subliminal about using Kipper purple mind.
http://aberdeensnp.org/sites/default/files/images/McDonald, Mark_ Constituency office.jpg
And another, more colorful version:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C0XQd4TXUAARl4_.jpg
http://tinyurl.com/mxn3xuy
The obligatory bar charts and whining about the EssEnnPee needless to say.0 -
Now you are channeling "Old Rutherford" who is channeling "Scott and Paste". What a day.RobD said:
What's the phrase, 'joyous and civic'?malcolmg said:
Typical Tories, everybody has to suffer just to save the Tories replacing their windows every week.RobD said:
Stop being cheeky. It's due to the fact no MSP can put their party/colors on their offices.malcolmg said:
It is so they don't have to keep replacing the windows, they have to make it look like anything other than a Tory office. Despite the delusion on here, they are still reviled in Scotland.RobD said:
Probably paid for by the Parliament - cheaper to change the name if the MSP changes than redecorate the entire thing.Sandpit said:
Ha! Indeed, a quick Google looks like they have a standard purple facade for a number of MSP offices, with no mention of party affiliation on any of them!RobD said:
If anything it looks like a standard design used by all parties:Theuniondivvie said:Ruth mentioned the Tories once but I think she got away with it.
https://twitter.com/kwr66/status/848134076741689345
Probably something subliminal about using Kipper purple mind.
http://aberdeensnp.org/sites/default/files/images/McDonald, Mark_ Constituency office.jpg
And another, more colorful version:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C0XQd4TXUAARl4_.jpg0 -
Is that an official constituency office? Doesn't sound as though it is since it was only opened for the election.Theuniondivvie said:
Really?RobD said:
Stop being cheeky. It's due to the fact no MSP can put their party/colors on their offices.malcolmg said:
It is so they don't have to keep replacing the windows, they have to make it look like anything other than a Tory office. Despite the delusion on here, they are still reviled in Scotland.RobD said:
Probably paid for by the Parliament - cheaper to change the name if the MSP changes than redecorate the entire thing.Sandpit said:
Ha! Indeed, a quick Google looks like they have a standard purple facade for a number of MSP offices, with no mention of party affiliation on any of them!RobD said:
If anything it looks like a standard design used by all parties:Theuniondivvie said:Ruth mentioned the Tories once but I think she got away with it.
https://twitter.com/kwr66/status/848134076741689345
Probably something subliminal about using Kipper purple mind.
http://aberdeensnp.org/sites/default/files/images/McDonald, Mark_ Constituency office.jpg
And another, more colorful version:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C0XQd4TXUAARl4_.jpg
http://tinyurl.com/mxn3xuy
The obligatory bar charts and whining about the EssEnnPee needless to say.0 -
Isnt that a campaign shop for a candidate not a parliamentary office for an MSP?Theuniondivvie said:
Really?RobD said:
Stop being cheeky. It's due to the fact no MSP can put their party/colors on their offices.malcolmg said:
It is so they don't have to keep replacing the windows, they have to make it look like anything other than a Tory office. Despite the delusion on here, they are still reviled in Scotland.RobD said:
Probably paid for by the Parliament - cheaper to change the name if the MSP changes than redecorate the entire thing.Sandpit said:
Ha! Indeed, a quick Google looks like they have a standard purple facade for a number of MSP offices, with no mention of party affiliation on any of them!RobD said:
If anything it looks like a standard design used by all parties:Theuniondivvie said:Ruth mentioned the Tories once but I think she got away with it.
https://twitter.com/kwr66/status/848134076741689345
Probably something subliminal about using Kipper purple mind.
http://aberdeensnp.org/sites/default/files/images/McDonald, Mark_ Constituency office.jpg
And another, more colorful version:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C0XQd4TXUAARl4_.jpg
http://tinyurl.com/mxn3xuy
The obligatory bar charts and whining about the EssEnnPee needless to say.0 -
Offices paid for by a party can have their own colours on, offices paid for by the state cannot.Theuniondivvie said:
Really?RobD said:
Stop being cheeky. It's due to the fact no MSP can put their party/colors on their offices.malcolmg said:
It is so they don't have to keep replacing the windows, they have to make it look like anything other than a Tory office. Despite the delusion on here, they are still reviled in Scotland.RobD said:
Probably paid for by the Parliament - cheaper to change the name if the MSP changes than redecorate the entire thing.Sandpit said:
Ha! Indeed, a quick Google looks like they have a standard purple facade for a number of MSP offices, with no mention of party affiliation on any of them!RobD said:
If anything it looks like a standard design used by all parties:Theuniondivvie said:Ruth mentioned the Tories once but I think she got away with it.
https://twitter.com/kwr66/status/848134076741689345
Probably something subliminal about using Kipper purple mind.
http://aberdeensnp.org/sites/default/files/images/McDonald, Mark_ Constituency office.jpg
And another, more colorful version:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C0XQd4TXUAARl4_.jpg
http://tinyurl.com/mxn3xuy
The obligatory bar charts and whining about the EssEnnPee needless to say.0 -
Diane Abbot already blaming the Tories/Brexit for Croydon race hate attack.
"Shadow home secretary Diane Abbott suggested the Conservatives had failed to get to grips with hate crime.
She said: "Sadly this is not an isolated incident but part of a sustained increase in hate crimes that this Tory Government is yet to offer any effective response to.""
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/01/teenage-asylum-seeker-critically-hospital-brutal-gang-attack/0 -
That's the LD campaign office, described in the article as opening in advance of the Holyrood election. It's not a picture of the constituency office of a sitting MSP.Theuniondivvie said:
Really?RobD said:
Stop being cheeky. It's due to the fact no MSP can put their party/colors on their offices.malcolmg said:
It is so they don't have to keep replacing the windows, they have to make it look like anything other than a Tory office. Despite the delusion on here, they are still reviled in Scotland.RobD said:
Probably paid for by the Parliament - cheaper to change the name if the MSP changes than redecorate the entire thing.Sandpit said:
Ha! Indeed, a quick Google looks like they have a standard purple facade for a number of MSP offices, with no mention of party affiliation on any of them!RobD said:
If anything it looks like a standard design used by all parties:Theuniondivvie said:Ruth mentioned the Tories once but I think she got away with it.
https://twitter.com/kwr66/status/848134076741689345
Probably something subliminal about using Kipper purple mind.
http://aberdeensnp.org/sites/default/files/images/McDonald, Mark_ Constituency office.jpg
And another, more colorful version:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C0XQd4TXUAARl4_.jpg
http://tinyurl.com/mxn3xuy
The obligatory bar charts and whining about the EssEnnPee needless to say.0 -
http://www.redpathconstruction.co.uk/Libraries/projects_images/IMG_4980_web_2.sflb.ashxRobD said:
Is that an official constituency office? Doesn't sound as though it is since it was only opened for the election.Theuniondivvie said:
Really?RobD said:
Stop being cheeky. It's due to the fact no MSP can put their party/colors on their offices.malcolmg said:
It is so they don't have to keep replacing the windows, they have to make it look like anything other than a Tory office. Despite the delusion on here, they are still reviled in Scotland.RobD said:
Probably paid for by the Parliament - cheaper to change the name if the MSP changes than redecorate the entire thing.Sandpit said:
Ha! Indeed, a quick Google looks like they have a standard purple facade for a number of MSP offices, with no mention of party affiliation on any of them!RobD said:
If anything it looks like a standard design used by all parties:Theuniondivvie said:Ruth mentioned the Tories once but I think she got away with it.
https://twitter.com/kwr66/status/848134076741689345
Probably something subliminal about using Kipper purple mind.
http://aberdeensnp.org/sites/default/files/images/McDonald, Mark_ Constituency office.jpg
And another, more colorful version:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C0XQd4TXUAARl4_.jpg
http://tinyurl.com/mxn3xuy
The obligatory bar charts and whining about the EssEnnPee needless to say.0 -
Save Tories and Labour pocketing the cash or putting it in their chums pockets. They had to do same with Taxi's as well, no more using them to visit relatives due to Tories abusing it.RobD said:
Yep, and it's a central part of their job, so fair enough for it to be paid for centrally.Sandpit said:
That's the most plausible reason - that the Parliament itself rents an office in each town for the MSP(s) to work out of.RobD said:
Probably paid for by the Parliament - cheaper to change the name if the MSP changes than redecorate the entire thing.Sandpit said:
Ha! Indeed, a quick Google looks like they have a standard purple facade for a number of MSP offices, with no mention of party affiliation on any of them!RobD said:
If anything it looks like a standard design used by all parties:Theuniondivvie said:Ruth mentioned the Tories once but I think she got away with it.
https://twitter.com/kwr66/status/848134076741689345
Probably something subliminal about using Kipper purple mind.
http://aberdeensnp.org/sites/default/files/images/McDonald, Mark_ Constituency office.jpg
And another, more colorful version:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C0XQd4TXUAARl4_.jpg
I remember a feature of the MP expenses scandal was how many were renting offices from the local party at higher-than-expected rents, so better for the taxpayer to do it centrally.0 -
Nicola too embarrassed to mention her party....but she's sneaked in UKIP purple too.....CarlottaVance said:
http://www.redpathconstruction.co.uk/Libraries/projects_images/IMG_4980_web_2.sflb.ashxRobD said:
Is that an official constituency office? Doesn't sound as though it is since it was only opened for the election.Theuniondivvie said:
Really?RobD said:
Stop being cheeky. It's due to the fact no MSP can put their party/colors on their offices.malcolmg said:
It is so they don't have to keep replacing the windows, they have to make it look like anything other than a Tory office. Despite the delusion on here, they are still reviled in Scotland.RobD said:
Probably paid for by the Parliament - cheaper to change the name if the MSP changes than redecorate the entire thing.Sandpit said:
Ha! Indeed, a quick Google looks like they have a standard purple facade for a number of MSP offices, with no mention of party affiliation on any of them!RobD said:
If anything it looks like a standard design used by all parties:Theuniondivvie said:Ruth mentioned the Tories once but I think she got away with it.
https://twitter.com/kwr66/status/848134076741689345
Probably something subliminal about using Kipper purple mind.
http://aberdeensnp.org/sites/default/files/images/McDonald, Mark_ Constituency office.jpg
And another, more colorful version:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C0XQd4TXUAARl4_.jpg
http://tinyurl.com/mxn3xuy
The obligatory bar charts and whining about the EssEnnPee needless to say.
They'll be telling us the SNP EU Policy next...0 -
No, it's a campaign office.RobD said:
Is that an official constituency office? Doesn't sound as though it is since it was only opened for the election.Theuniondivvie said:
Really?RobD said:
Stop being cheeky. It's due to the fact no MSP can put their party/colors on their offices.malcolmg said:
It is so they don't have to keep replacing the windows, they have to make it look like anything other than a Tory office. Despite the delusion on here, they are still reviled in Scotland.RobD said:
Probably paid for by the Parliament - cheaper to change the name if the MSP changes than redecorate the entire thing.Sandpit said:
Ha! Indeed, a quick Google looks like they have a standard purple facade for a number of MSP offices, with no mention of party affiliation on any of them!RobD said:
If anything it looks like a standard design used by all parties:Theuniondivvie said:Ruth mentioned the Tories once but I think she got away with it.
https://twitter.com/kwr66/status/848134076741689345
Probably something subliminal about using Kipper purple mind.
http://aberdeensnp.org/sites/default/files/images/McDonald, Mark_ Constituency office.jpg
And another, more colorful version:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C0XQd4TXUAARl4_.jpg
http://tinyurl.com/mxn3xuy
The obligatory bar charts and whining about the EssEnnPee needless to say.0 -
The appalling Brexit result is even making Indian people racistJonnyJimmy said:Diane Abbot already blaming the Tories/Brexit for Croydon race hate attack.
"Shadow home secretary Diane Abbott suggested the Conservatives had failed to get to grips with hate crime.
She said: "Sadly this is not an isolated incident but part of a sustained increase in hate crimes that this Tory Government is yet to offer any effective response to.""
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/01/teenage-asylum-seeker-critically-hospital-brutal-gang-attack/
http://indianexpress.com/article/india/racist-hate-crime-against-black-african-students-must-end-amnesty-international-4591332/0 -
That picture wins the Internet for today!CarlottaVance said:
http://www.redpathconstruction.co.uk/Libraries/projects_images/IMG_4980_web_2.sflb.ashxRobD said:
Is that an official constituency office? Doesn't sound as though it is since it was only opened for the election.Theuniondivvie said:
Really?RobD said:
Stop being cheeky. It's due to the fact no MSP can put their party/colors on their offices.malcolmg said:
It is so they don't have to keep replacing the windows, they have to make it look like anything other than a Tory office. Despite the delusion on here, they are still reviled in Scotland.RobD said:
Probably paid for by the Parliament - cheaper to change the name if the MSP changes than redecorate the entire thing.Sandpit said:
Ha! Indeed, a quick Google looks like they have a standard purple facade for a number of MSP offices, with no mention of party affiliation on any of them!RobD said:
If anything it looks like a standard design used by all parties:Theuniondivvie said:Ruth mentioned the Tories once but I think she got away with it.
https://twitter.com/kwr66/status/848134076741689345
Probably something subliminal about using Kipper purple mind.
http://aberdeensnp.org/sites/default/files/images/McDonald, Mark_ Constituency office.jpg
And another, more colorful version:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C0XQd4TXUAARl4_.jpg
http://tinyurl.com/mxn3xuy
The obligatory bar charts and whining about the EssEnnPee needless to say.0 -
Did the missus buy that you can get crabs off a toilet seat?Dura_Ace said:
On my Invincible and Ark Royal cruises in the Med if one hadn't manage to get crabs in Malta or Sigonella then Gibraltar was the last chance before Portsmouth.HurstLlama said:
Dura_Ace, I think, probably knows more about this than any of us, but it is my understanding that Gibraltar was, and maybe still is, the first and last port of call for RN ships heading South or East.0 -
So desperate that Carlotta has to post replies to herself, she is really missing Scott and Paste big time.CarlottaVance said:
Nicola too embarrassed to mention her party....but she's sneaked in UKIP purple too.....CarlottaVance said:
http://www.redpathconstruction.co.uk/Libraries/projects_images/IMG_4980_web_2.sflb.ashxRobD said:
Is that an official constituency office? Doesn't sound as though it is since it was only opened for the election.Theuniondivvie said:
Really?RobD said:
Stop being cheeky. It's due to the fact no MSP can put their party/colors on their offices.malcolmg said:
It is so they don't have to keep replacing the windows, they have to make it look like anything other than a Tory office. Despite the delusion on here, they are still reviled in Scotland.RobD said:
Probably paid for by the Parliament - cheaper to change the name if the MSP changes than redecorate the entire thing.Sandpit said:
Ha! Indeed, a quick Google looks like they have a standard purple facade for a number of MSP offices, with no mention of party affiliation on any of them!RobD said:
If anything it looks like a standard design used by all parties:Theuniondivvie said:Ruth mentioned the Tories once but I think she got away with it.
https://twitter.com/kwr66/status/848134076741689345
Probably something subliminal about using Kipper purple mind.
http://aberdeensnp.org/sites/default/files/images/McDonald, Mark_ Constituency office.jpg
And another, more colorful version:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C0XQd4TXUAARl4_.jpg
http://tinyurl.com/mxn3xuy
The obligatory bar charts and whining about the EssEnnPee needless to say.
They'll be telling us the SNP EU Policy next...0 -
Don't burden the Nats with facts - their heads explode!HaroldO said:
Offices paid for by a party can have their own colours on, offices paid for by the state cannot.Theuniondivvie said:
Really?RobD said:
Stop being cheeky. It's due to the fact no MSP can put their party/colors on their offices.malcolmg said:
It is so they don't have to keep replacing the windows, they have to make it look like anything other than a Tory office. Despite the delusion on here, they are still reviled in Scotland.RobD said:
Probably paid for by the Parliament - cheaper to change the name if the MSP changes than redecorate the entire thing.Sandpit said:
Ha! Indeed, a quick Google looks like they have a standard purple facade for a number of MSP offices, with no mention of party affiliation on any of them!RobD said:
If anything it looks like a standard design used by all parties:Theuniondivvie said:Ruth mentioned the Tories once but I think she got away with it.
https://twitter.com/kwr66/status/848134076741689345
Probably something subliminal about using Kipper purple mind.
http://aberdeensnp.org/sites/default/files/images/McDonald, Mark_ Constituency office.jpg
And another, more colorful version:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C0XQd4TXUAARl4_.jpg
http://tinyurl.com/mxn3xuy
The obligatory bar charts and whining about the EssEnnPee needless to say.0 -
Shy KipperSandpit said:
That picture wins the Internet for today!CarlottaVance said:
http://www.redpathconstruction.co.uk/Libraries/projects_images/IMG_4980_web_2.sflb.ashxRobD said:
Is that an official constituency office? Doesn't sound as though it is since it was only opened for the election.Theuniondivvie said:
Really?RobD said:
Stop being cheeky. It's due to the fact no MSP can put their party/colors on their offices.malcolmg said:
It is so they don't have to keep replacing the windows, they have to make it look like anything other than a Tory office. Despite the delusion on here, they are still reviled in Scotland.RobD said:
Probably paid for by the Parliament - cheaper to change the name if the MSP changes than redecorate the entire thing.Sandpit said:
Ha! Indeed, a quick Google looks like they have a standard purple facade for a number of MSP offices, with no mention of party affiliation on any of them!RobD said:
If anything it looks like a standard design used by all parties:Theuniondivvie said:Ruth mentioned the Tories once but I think she got away with it.
https://twitter.com/kwr66/status/848134076741689345
Probably something subliminal about using Kipper purple mind.
http://aberdeensnp.org/sites/default/files/images/McDonald, Mark_ Constituency office.jpg
And another, more colorful version:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C0XQd4TXUAARl4_.jpg
http://tinyurl.com/mxn3xuy
The obligatory bar charts and whining about the EssEnnPee needless to say.0 -
Genuinely what the fuck ...
https://twitter.com/telegraph/status/8484737978083164170 -
Did you see the pub the attackers were thought to be drinking in. It doesn't look like a meeting place for the local Kippers..isam said:
The appalling Brexit result is even making Indian people racistJonnyJimmy said:Diane Abbot already blaming the Tories/Brexit for Croydon race hate attack.
"Shadow home secretary Diane Abbott suggested the Conservatives had failed to get to grips with hate crime.
She said: "Sadly this is not an isolated incident but part of a sustained increase in hate crimes that this Tory Government is yet to offer any effective response to.""
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/01/teenage-asylum-seeker-critically-hospital-brutal-gang-attack/
http://indianexpress.com/article/india/racist-hate-crime-against-black-african-students-must-end-amnesty-international-4591332/
https://www.facebook.com/TheGoatPubShirley/
0 -
I must say, it is a nice shade of purple.isam said:
Shy KipperSandpit said:
That picture wins the Internet for today!CarlottaVance said:
http://www.redpathconstruction.co.uk/Libraries/projects_images/IMG_4980_web_2.sflb.ashxRobD said:
Is that an official constituency office? Doesn't sound as though it is since it was only opened for the election.Theuniondivvie said:
Really?RobD said:
Stop being cheeky. It's due to the fact no MSP can put their party/colors on their offices.malcolmg said:
It is so they don't have to keep replacing the windows, they have to make it look like anything other than a Tory office. Despite the delusion on here, they are still reviled in Scotland.RobD said:
Probably paid for by the Parliament - cheaper to change the name if the MSP changes than redecorate the entire thing.Sandpit said:
Ha! Indeed, a quick Google looks like they have a standard purple facade for a number of MSP offices, with no mention of party affiliation on any of them!RobD said:
If anything it looks like a standard design used by all parties:Theuniondivvie said:Ruth mentioned the Tories once but I think she got away with it.
https://twitter.com/kwr66/status/848134076741689345
Probably something subliminal about using Kipper purple mind.
http://aberdeensnp.org/sites/default/files/images/McDonald, Mark_ Constituency office.jpg
And another, more colorful version:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C0XQd4TXUAARl4_.jpg
http://tinyurl.com/mxn3xuy
The obligatory bar charts and whining about the EssEnnPee needless to say.0 -
That's her job isn't it -- blaming the government for things?JonnyJimmy said:Diane Abbot already blaming the Tories/Brexit for Croydon race hate attack.
"Shadow home secretary Diane Abbott suggested the Conservatives had failed to get to grips with hate crime.
She said: "Sadly this is not an isolated incident but part of a sustained increase in hate crimes that this Tory Government is yet to offer any effective response to.""
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/01/teenage-asylum-seeker-critically-hospital-brutal-gang-attack/0 -
Powerless old man makes promises he won't have to keep non-shocker.SouthamObserver said:Genuinely what the fuck ...
https://twitter.com/telegraph/status/8484737978083164170 -
Pleased with TUD's own goal?malcolmg said:
So desperate that Carlotta has to post replies to herself, she is really missing Scott and Paste big time.CarlottaVance said:
Nicola too embarrassed to mention her party....but she's sneaked in UKIP purple too.....CarlottaVance said:
http://www.redpathconstruction.co.uk/Libraries/projects_images/IMG_4980_web_2.sflb.ashxRobD said:
Is that an official constituency office? Doesn't sound as though it is since it was only opened for the election.Theuniondivvie said:
Really?RobD said:
Stop being cheeky. It's due to the fact no MSP can put their party/colors on their offices.malcolmg said:
It is so they don't have to keep replacing the windows, they have to make it look like anything other than a Tory office. Despite the delusion on here, they are still reviled in Scotland.RobD said:
Probably paid for by the Parliament - cheaper to change the name if the MSP changes than redecorate the entire thing.Sandpit said:
Ha! Indeed, a quick Google looks like they have a standard purple facade for a number of MSP offices, with no mention of party affiliation on any of them!RobD said:
If anything it looks like a standard design used by all parties:Theuniondivvie said:Ruth mentioned the Tories once but I think she got away with it.
https://twitter.com/kwr66/status/848134076741689345
Probably something subliminal about using Kipper purple mind.
http://aberdeensnp.org/sites/default/files/images/McDonald, Mark_ Constituency office.jpg
And another, more colorful version:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C0XQd4TXUAARl4_.jpg
http://tinyurl.com/mxn3xuy
The obligatory bar charts and whining about the EssEnnPee needless to say.
They'll be telling us the SNP EU Policy next...0 -
Did project fear mention a war with Spain?SouthamObserver said:Genuinely what the fuck ...
0 -
Which only reinforces the view that it is the Scottish population that have a problem with understanding politics, relationships, change and the modern world.malcolmg said:
It is so they don't have to keep replacing the windows, they have to make it look like anything other than a Tory office. Despite the delusion on here, they are still reviled in Scotland.RobD said:
Probably paid for by the Parliament - cheaper to change the name if the MSP changes than redecorate the entire thing.Sandpit said:
Ha! Indeed, a quick Google looks like they have a standard purple facade for a number of MSP offices, with no mention of party affiliation on any of them!RobD said:
If anything it looks like a standard design used by all parties:Theuniondivvie said:Ruth mentioned the Tories once but I think she got away with it.
https://twitter.com/kwr66/status/848134076741689345
Probably something subliminal about using Kipper purple mind.
http://aberdeensnp.org/sites/default/files/images/McDonald, Mark_ Constituency office.jpg
And another, more colorful version:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C0XQd4TXUAARl4_.jpg0 -
Howard's warmongering is still damn stupid though. Cheaper to pay Russian hackers to help the Basque separatists.HaroldO said:
Powerless old man makes promises he won't have to keep non-shocker.SouthamObserver said:Genuinely what the fuck ...
https://twitter.com/telegraph/status/8484737978083164170 -
As we thought, there is a guideline on the use of Scottish Parliament "Corporate Identity" on MSP offices, rolled out from 2016 after the election.
http://www.parliament.scot/images/Parliament Publications/SP_Office_Signage_Info_Sheet_8pp_-_Jul_2016_(web).pdf
No party references allowed and no renting offices from your party either. Quite sensible IMO.0 -
As ever they over-egged it and predicted WW3.williamglenn said:
Did project fear mention a war with Spain?SouthamObserver said:Genuinely what the fuck ...
0 -
Spain has a land border with Gibraltar. In order to take it back if the Spanish marched in we would lieralky have to invade Spain! What the hell is going on in Hard Brexitland? There does seem to be a genuine bloodlust-driven madness taking over. In the real world, of course, all that's happened is that the Spanish have a veto on whether any Brexit deal would apply to Gibraltar.williamglenn said:
0 -
Rolled out by the SNP government? Hah!Sandpit said:As we thought, there is a guideline on the use of Scottish Parliament "Corporate Identity" on MSP offices, rolled out in 2016 after the election.
http://www.parliament.scot/images/Parliament Publications/SP_Office_Signage_Info_Sheet_8pp_-_Jul_2016_(web).pdf
No party references allowed and no renting offices from your party either.0 -
Time to refresh the old alliance with Portugal ...williamglenn said:
Did project fear mention a war with Spain?SouthamObserver said:Genuinely what the fuck ...
0 -
It's much bluer than UKIP purple.RobD said:
I must say, it is a nice shade of purple.isam said:
Shy KipperSandpit said:
That picture wins the Internet for today!CarlottaVance said:
http://www.redpathconstruction.co.uk/Libraries/projects_images/IMG_4980_web_2.sflb.ashxRobD said:
Is that an official constituency office? Doesn't sound as though it is since it was only opened for the election.Theuniondivvie said:
Really?RobD said:
Stop being cheeky. It's due to the fact no MSP can put their party/colors on their offices.malcolmg said:
It is so they don't have to keep replacing the windows, they have to make it look like anything other than a Tory office. Despite the delusion on here, they are still reviled in Scotland.RobD said:
Probably paid for by the Parliament - cheaper to change the name if the MSP changes than redecorate the entire thing.Sandpit said:
Ha! Indeed, a quick Google looks like they have a standard purple facade for a number of MSP offices, with no mention of party affiliation on any of them!RobD said:
If anything it looks like a standard design used by all parties:Theuniondivvie said:Ruth mentioned the Tories once but I think she got away with it.
https://twitter.com/kwr66/status/848134076741689345
Probably something subliminal about using Kipper purple mind.
http://aberdeensnp.org/sites/default/files/images/McDonald, Mark_ Constituency office.jpg
And another, more colorful version:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C0XQd4TXUAARl4_.jpg
http://tinyurl.com/mxn3xuy
The obligatory bar charts and whining about the EssEnnPee needless to say.0 -
UKIP do very well with the Zambian electorate!JonnyJimmy said:
Did you see the pub the attackers were thought to be drinking in. It doesn't look like a meeting place for the local Kippers..isam said:
The appalling Brexit result is even making Indian people racistJonnyJimmy said:Diane Abbot already blaming the Tories/Brexit for Croydon race hate attack.
"Shadow home secretary Diane Abbott suggested the Conservatives had failed to get to grips with hate crime.
She said: "Sadly this is not an isolated incident but part of a sustained increase in hate crimes that this Tory Government is yet to offer any effective response to.""
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/01/teenage-asylum-seeker-critically-hospital-brutal-gang-attack/
http://indianexpress.com/article/india/racist-hate-crime-against-black-african-students-must-end-amnesty-international-4591332/
https://www.facebook.com/TheGoatPubShirley/0 -
Seems sensible, stops the state from subsidising parties advertising.Sandpit said:As we thought, there is a guideline on the use of Scottish Parliament "Corporate Identity" on MSP offices, rolled out in 2016 after the election.
http://www.parliament.scot/images/Parliament Publications/SP_Office_Signage_Info_Sheet_8pp_-_Jul_2016_(web).pdf
No party references allowed and no renting offices from your party either.0 -
I doubt Spain would ever do that, unless something drastically changed in their domestic politics.SouthamObserver said:
Spain has a land border with Gibraltar. In order to take it back if the Spanish marched in we would lieralky have to invade Spain! What the hell is going on in Hard Brexitland? There does seem to be a genuine bloodlust-driven madness taking over. In the real world, of course, all that's happened is that the Spanish have a veto on whether any Brexit deal would apply to Gibraltar.williamglenn said:twitter.com/faisalislam/status/848478966981808128
Edit: and we wouldn't be invading Spain, just Gibraltar. 0 -
Jon Ashworth has no answers.0
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I didn't get married until I left!DecrepitJohnL said:
Did the missus buy that you can get crabs off a toilet seat?Dura_Ace said:
On my Invincible and Ark Royal cruises in the Med if one hadn't manage to get crabs in Malta or Sigonella then Gibraltar was the last chance before Portsmouth.HurstLlama said:
Dura_Ace, I think, probably knows more about this than any of us, but it is my understanding that Gibraltar was, and maybe still is, the first and last port of call for RN ships heading South or East.
On my USN exchange tour one of my squadron mates got some infection off an Uzbek pro in Bahrain. It was horrific - there was practically toadstools growing on his glans. He successfully faked clinical depression for nine months to avoid knocking the nail in at home while he experimented with LD50 doses of every possible fungicide and antibiotic.0 -
In my real world he just said we would stand by the people of Gibraltar with the same resolve as we did those of the Falklands. Possibly a clumsy analogy as it gives people with an agenda rope to sensationalise, but he didn't advocate war with SpainSouthamObserver said:
Spain has a land border with Gibraltar. In order to take it back if the Spanish marched in we would lieralky have to invade Spain! What the hell is going on in Hard Brexitland? There does seem to be a genuine bloodlust-driven madness taking over. In the real world, of course, all that's happened is that the Spanish have a veto on whether any Brexit deal would apply to Gibraltar.williamglenn said:0 -
Of course Spain won't. It is a civilised democracy, an ally, a friend and an important trading partner. That Hard Brexiteers like Michael Howard are even prepared to talk about this shows how unreasoned their thinking has become. Global, outward looking Britain is supposed to be about making friends, not creating enemies, isn't it?RobD said:
I doubt Spain would ever do that, unless something drastically changed in their domestic politics.SouthamObserver said:
Spain has a land border with Gibraltar. In order to take it back if the Spanish marched in we would lieralky have to invade Spain! What the hell is going on in Hard Brexitland? There does seem to be a genuine bloodlust-driven madness taking over. In the real world, of course, all that's happened is that the Spanish have a veto on whether any Brexit deal would apply to Gibraltar.williamglenn said:twitter.com/faisalislam/status/848478966981808128
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Howard is a silly old man. Unless it is part of a deliberate tactic by the WTOers to fire up anti-EU feeling, using any excuse, to feed the "let's just walk away" campaign.SouthamObserver said:Genuinely what the fuck ...
https://twitter.com/telegraph/status/8484737978083164170 -
I don't think Spain has ever been a friend when it comes to Gibraltar!SouthamObserver said:
Of course Spain won't. It is a civilised democracy, an ally, a friend and an important trading partner. That Hard Brexiteers like Michael Howard are even prepared to talk about this shows how unreasoned their thinking has become. Global, outward looking Britain is supposed to be about making friends, not creating enemies, isn't it?RobD said:
I doubt Spain would ever do that, unless something drastically changed in their domestic politics.SouthamObserver said:
Spain has a land border with Gibraltar. In order to take it back if the Spanish marched in we would lieralky have to invade Spain! What the hell is going on in Hard Brexitland? There does seem to be a genuine bloodlust-driven madness taking over. In the real world, of course, all that's happened is that the Spanish have a veto on whether any Brexit deal would apply to Gibraltar.williamglenn said:twitter.com/faisalislam/status/848478966981808128
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They're 'Spanish speaking' so clearly no different to the Argies anyway...RobD said:
I don't think Spain has ever been a friend when it comes to Gibraltar!SouthamObserver said:
Of course Spain won't. It is a civilised democracy, an ally, a friend and an important trading partner. That Hard Brexiteers like Michael Howard are even prepared to talk about this shows how unreasoned their thinking has become. Global, outward looking Britain is supposed to be about making friends, not creating enemies, isn't it?RobD said:
I doubt Spain would ever do that, unless something drastically changed in their domestic politics.SouthamObserver said:
Spain has a land border with Gibraltar. In order to take it back if the Spanish marched in we would lieralky have to invade Spain! What the hell is going on in Hard Brexitland? There does seem to be a genuine bloodlust-driven madness taking over. In the real world, of course, all that's happened is that the Spanish have a veto on whether any Brexit deal would apply to Gibraltar.williamglenn said:twitter.com/faisalislam/status/848478966981808128
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TMay should tell the Spanish if they don't cut it out she'll give Scotland another IndyrefDecrepitJohnL said:
Howard's warmongering is still damn stupid though. Cheaper to pay Russian hackers to help the Basque separatists.HaroldO said:
Powerless old man makes promises he won't have to keep non-shocker.SouthamObserver said:Genuinely what the fuck ...
https://twitter.com/telegraph/status/8484737978083164170 -
Well they were Spanish colonists...williamglenn said:
They're 'Spanish speaking' so clearly no different to the Argies anyway...RobD said:
I don't think Spain has ever been a friend when it comes to Gibraltar!SouthamObserver said:
Of course Spain won't. It is a civilised democracy, an ally, a friend and an important trading partner. That Hard Brexiteers like Michael Howard are even prepared to talk about this shows how unreasoned their thinking has become. Global, outward looking Britain is supposed to be about making friends, not creating enemies, isn't it?RobD said:
I doubt Spain would ever do that, unless something drastically changed in their domestic politics.SouthamObserver said:
Spain has a land border with Gibraltar. In order to take it back if the Spanish marched in we would lieralky have to invade Spain! What the hell is going on in Hard Brexitland? There does seem to be a genuine bloodlust-driven madness taking over. In the real world, of course, all that's happened is that the Spanish have a veto on whether any Brexit deal would apply to Gibraltar.williamglenn said:twitter.com/faisalislam/status/848478966981808128
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If the Spanish "marched in" they'd have declared war on us! Of course we would need to invade Spain if that happened. Which is why it won't happen, unless like with the Falklands other nations cease to believe we will defend our territory.SouthamObserver said:
Spain has a land border with Gibraltar. In order to take it back if the Spanish marched in we would lieralky have to invade Spain! What the hell is going on in Hard Brexitland? There does seem to be a genuine bloodlust-driven madness taking over. In the real world, of course, all that's happened is that the Spanish have a veto on whether any Brexit deal would apply to Gibraltar.williamglenn said:0 -
On topic... I disagree that the value bet is in this market is a lay of Le Pen. In fact, I would go as far as to say that her odds are the closest to being correct, in terms of looking at it from the perspective of where things will stand when the first round result is known in 3 weeks time.
If it were Le Pen v Macron and I had 10k green on Macron and no win on Le Pen, would I sacrifice 2k on Le Pen at odds of 5, to give myself a guaranteed win of 7.5-8k? Yes, like a shot and so would many others. That is why her price is likely to be lower than 5 if she makes it through. That doesn't mean that I think that price correctly reflects her chances of winning, because I would put her chances of winning against Macron at less than 10%.
On the other hand, if it were Le Pen v Fillon or Melenchon then her actual chances improve greatly, so her price would drop much lower than 5.
The current odds on this market are all over the place. Macron, if he gets through are likely to to be around 1.3 and as Mr Meeks suggests, his chances of doing so must be pretty likely, therefore he is exceptionally good value, from both a betting and a trading perspective at his current price of 1.68
Fillon is the lay of the market. I would agree with Mr Meeks assessment of a 12% chance of making it thorugh to the next round and, if he does, it is probably a 50/50 chance of whether he faces Macron or Le Pen. If he faces Macron, his odds are likely to be no better than 4.5. I don't subscribe to the view that if he makes it thorugh, his popularity will have improved greatly. His likeliest route to the final is in a tight 3 way finish for 2nd place with all 3 around 20%
Melenchon at 55 is also exceptional value at the moment. From polling around 11%, his performance in the last TV debate gave him momentum which has taken him to 16% in one poll, just one point behind Fillon. If he were able to put in a similar performance in tuesday's TV debate, it is quite probable that there will be at least one poll showing him level with or even ahead of Fillon by the end of this week. If so, what price Melenchon then?
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I'm afraid we do not have the capacity to invade Spain.Philip_Thompson said:
If the Spanish "marched in" they'd have declared war on us! Of course we would need to invade Spain if that happened. Which is why it won't happen, unless like with the Falklands other nations cease to believe we will defend our territory.SouthamObserver said:
Spain has a land border with Gibraltar. In order to take it back if the Spanish marched in we would lieralky have to invade Spain! What the hell is going on in Hard Brexitland? There does seem to be a genuine bloodlust-driven madness taking over. In the real world, of course, all that's happened is that the Spanish have a veto on whether any Brexit deal would apply to Gibraltar.williamglenn said:
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It's not the Spanish who are making an issue out of this - even though their leverage on Gibraltar has been reduced by Tusk taking it off the agenda of the main negotiation.edmundintokyo said:
TMay should tell the Spanish if they don't cut it out she'll give Scotland another IndyrefDecrepitJohnL said:
Howard's warmongering is still damn stupid though. Cheaper to pay Russian hackers to help the Basque separatists.HaroldO said:
Powerless old man makes promises he won't have to keep non-shocker.SouthamObserver said:Genuinely what the fuck ...
https://twitter.com/telegraph/status/8484737978083164170 -
As a trap for clever-dick Nats it would appear - and it worked!RobD said:
Rolled out by the SNP government? Hah!Sandpit said:As we thought, there is a guideline on the use of Scottish Parliament "Corporate Identity" on MSP offices, rolled out in 2016 after the election.
http://www.parliament.scot/images/Parliament Publications/SP_Office_Signage_Info_Sheet_8pp_-_Jul_2016_(web).pdf
No party references allowed and no renting offices from your party either.
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We would not invade Spain, just send British forces to defend Gibraltar as we did with the Falklands, although it is a highly unlikely scenario given Rajoy is hardly comparable with the Argentine Fascist junta in power thenSouthamObserver said:
I'm afraid we do not have the capacity to invade Spain.Philip_Thompson said:
If the Spanish "marched in" they'd have declared war on us! Of course we would need to invade Spain if that happened. Which is why it won't happen, unless like with the Falklands other nations cease to believe we will defend our territory.SouthamObserver said:
Spain has a land border with Gibraltar. In order to take it back if the Spanish marched in we would lieralky have to invade Spain! What the hell is going on in Hard Brexitland? There does seem to be a genuine bloodlust-driven madness taking over. In the real world, of course, all that's happened is that the Spanish have a veto on whether any Brexit deal would apply to Gibraltar.williamglenn said:0 -
It is in fact the LD constituency office, still with big cheesy pics of the MSP on the front window. If that's allowed I'm at a loss why 'popular' Ruthy has missed an opportunity for self promotion.RobD said:
Is that an official constituency office? Doesn't sound as though it is since it was only opened for the election.0 -
The rules on MSP offices were posted downthread. Granted, they have only just been introduced. No party colors or logos.Theuniondivvie said:
It is in fact the LD constituency office, still with big cheesy pics of the MSP on the front window. If that's allowed I'm at a loss why 'popular' Ruthy has missed an opportunity for self promotion.RobD said:
Is that an official constituency office? Doesn't sound as though it is since it was only opened for the election.0 -
Whatever happened to Scott? He disappeared a while ago and I didn't notice any particular reason.malcolmg said:
LOL, Carlotta is down to aping Scott, how low can a Tory go. Yoontastic.CarlottaVance said:I see our local zoomer was wetting himself on the previous thread over an old story that Jersey might "declare itself independent of the UK".
One problem, Jersey is not part of the UK...0 -
Leave backer Howard also said he was prepared to see some limited payments continuing to the EU to get access to the single market for key sectors of the economy like the City but the UK would do OK under WTO terms if trade had to continue on that basiswilliamglenn said:0 -
Well quite, but that will not stop the usual suspects from perverting what was actually said. Next we’ll be comparing military superiority and who’d win....isam said:
In my real world he just said we would stand by the people of Gibraltar with the same resolve as we did those of the Falklands. Possibly a clumsy analogy as it gives people with an agenda rope to sensationalise, but he didn't advocate war with SpainSouthamObserver said:
Spain has a land border with Gibraltar. In order to take it back if the Spanish marched in we would lieralky have to invade Spain! What the hell is going on in Hard Brexitland? There does seem to be a genuine bloodlust-driven madness taking over. In the real world, of course, all that's happened is that the Spanish have a veto on whether any Brexit deal would apply to Gibraltar.williamglenn said:0 -
That would involve getting troops there and landing them on territory held by an enemy with a professional army in possession of unbroken, land-based lines of communication. The Falklands it would not be.HYUFD said:
We would not invade Spain, just send British forces to defend Gibraltar as we did with the Falklands, although it is a highly unlikely scenario given Rajoy is hardly comparable with the Argentine Fascist junta in power thenSouthamObserver said:
I'm afraid we do not have the capacity to invade Spain.Philip_Thompson said:
If the Spanish "marched in" they'd have declared war on us! Of course we would need to invade Spain if that happened. Which is why it won't happen, unless like with the Falklands other nations cease to believe we will defend our territory.SouthamObserver said:
Spain has a land border with Gibraltar. In order to take it back if the Spanish marched in we would lieralky have to invade Spain! What the hell is going on in Hard Brexitland? There does seem to be a genuine bloodlust-driven madness taking over. In the real world, of course, all that's happened is that the Spanish have a veto on whether any Brexit deal would apply to Gibraltar.williamglenn said:
But of course there will be no war. The madness is that Hard Brexiteers are prepared to discuss it as a scenario.
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Time to give Spain back to The Moors.SimonStClare said:
Well quite, but that will not stop the usual suspects from perverting what was actually said. Next we’ll be comparing military superiority and who’d win....isam said:
In my real world he just said we would stand by the people of Gibraltar with the same resolve as we did those of the Falklands. Possibly a clumsy analogy as it gives people with an agenda rope to sensationalise, but he didn't advocate war with SpainSouthamObserver said:
Spain has a land border with Gibraltar. In order to take it back if the Spanish marched in we would lieralky have to invade Spain! What the hell is going on in Hard Brexitland? There does seem to be a genuine bloodlust-driven madness taking over. In the real world, of course, all that's happened is that the Spanish have a veto on whether any Brexit deal would apply to Gibraltar.williamglenn said:0 -
Now he is an MSP it has the same standard design as everyone elses.. SNP shop next door!Theuniondivvie said:
It is in fact the LD constituency office, still with big cheesy pics of the MSP on the front window. If that's allowed I'm at a loss why 'popular' Ruthy has missed an opportunity for self promotion.RobD said:
Is that an official constituency office? Doesn't sound as though it is since it was only opened for the election.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@55.9429127,-3.2840456,3a,75y,181.86h,91.9t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1spOAs-cYcvNP6Hs1F3feFcQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e10 -
Excellent trolling from the SNP there!isam said:
Now he is an MSP it has the same standard design as everyone elses.. SNP shop next door!Theuniondivvie said:
It is in fact the LD constituency office, still with big cheesy pics of the MSP on the front window. If that's allowed I'm at a loss why 'popular' Ruthy has missed an opportunity for self promotion.RobD said:
Is that an official constituency office? Doesn't sound as though it is since it was only opened for the election.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@55.9429127,-3.2840456,3a,75y,181.86h,91.9t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1spOAs-cYcvNP6Hs1F3feFcQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e10 -
Too late...SimonStClare said:
Well quite, but that will not stop the usual suspects from perverting what was actually said. Next we’ll be comparing military superiority and who’d win....isam said:
In my real world he just said we would stand by the people of Gibraltar with the same resolve as we did those of the Falklands. Possibly a clumsy analogy as it gives people with an agenda rope to sensationalise, but he didn't advocate war with SpainSouthamObserver said:
Spain has a land border with Gibraltar. In order to take it back if the Spanish marched in we would lieralky have to invade Spain! What the hell is going on in Hard Brexitland? There does seem to be a genuine bloodlust-driven madness taking over. In the real world, of course, all that's happened is that the Spanish have a veto on whether any Brexit deal would apply to Gibraltar.williamglenn said:twitter.com/faisalislam/status/848478966981808128
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It's the LD office, paid for by the local Lib Dems, with big cheesy pics of their candidate in the forthcoming MSP election. Hint: the photo was taken, as it says in the article, four months before the election.Theuniondivvie said:
It is in fact the LD constituency office, still with big cheesy pics of the MSP on the front window. If that's allowed I'm at a loss why 'popular' Ruthy has missed an opportunity for self promotion.RobD said:
Is that an official constituency office? Doesn't sound as though it is since it was only opened for the election.
An MSP office is different, it's paid for by Scottish taxpayers and the SNP government rolled out a party-neutral style guide for MSP office branding, to take effect after the 2016 elections.
http://www.parliament.scot/images/Parliament Publications/SP_Office_Signage_Info_Sheet_8pp_-_Jul_2016_(web).pdf0 -
Standing by Gibraltar in the same way that we stood by the Falklands involves armed conflict.isam said:
In my real world he just said we would stand by the people of Gibraltar with the same resolve as we did those of the Falklands. Possibly a clumsy analogy as it gives people with an agenda rope to sensationalise, but he didn't advocate war with SpainSouthamObserver said:
Spain has a land border with Gibraltar. In order to take it back if the Spanish marched in we would lieralky have to invade Spain! What the hell is going on in Hard Brexitland? There does seem to be a genuine bloodlust-driven madness taking over. In the real world, of course, all that's happened is that the Spanish have a veto on whether any Brexit deal would apply to Gibraltar.williamglenn said:
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That sequence of posts was almost uncanny... Well done!!SimonStClare said:
Well quite, but that will not stop the usual suspects from perverting what was actually said. Next we’ll be comparing military superiority and who’d win....isam said:
In my real world he just said we would stand by the people of Gibraltar with the same resolve as we did those of the Falklands. Possibly a clumsy analogy as it gives people with an agenda rope to sensationalise, but he didn't advocate war with SpainSouthamObserver said:
Spain has a land border with Gibraltar. In order to take it back if the Spanish marched in we would lieralky have to invade Spain! What the hell is going on in Hard Brexitland? There does seem to be a genuine bloodlust-driven madness taking over. In the real world, of course, all that's happened is that the Spanish have a veto on whether any Brexit deal would apply to Gibraltar.williamglenn said:0
This discussion has been closed.