politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Northern Ireland: Calls for ‘united Unionism’ simply don’t add

williamglenn said:

RobD said:

williamglenn said:

On topic - Theresa May seems to fancy her party as the unionists of last resort. Perhaps if she means what she says about 'one people' she should break with the past and start campaigning in NI.

The Tories do field candidates in the Northern Ireland. Unfortunately the NI Tory Surge Klaxon has yet to be heard.

Yes, beaten by UKIP in the last GE.

UKIP the true UK party, elected representatives in all four Home Nations.

Bojabob said:

HYUFD said:

williamglenn said:

RobD said:

williamglenn said:

On topic - Theresa May seems to fancy her party as the unionists of last resort. Perhaps if she means what she says about 'one people' she should break with the past and start campaigning in NI.

The Tories do field candidates in the Northern Ireland. Unfortunately the NI Tory Surge Klaxon has yet to be heard.

Yes, beaten by UKIP in the last GE.

The Tories are closer to the UUP, UKIP the DUP and it is the latter which is the loudest voice in current Unionism

Yes the DUP are a hard-right grouping that entertain some pretty choice views well beyond their constitutional principles.

Yes, they are the Kippers of Ulster

Lucian_Fletcher said:

Pulpstar said:

Lucian How did you transfer if I may be so bold to ask ?

I'm guessing you are a 1) NI Conservatives (If they were in your seat) 2) UUP man, but thereafter ?

Were I not actively a UUP supporter you would have been right but no. I went the other way round. Without going through the lot I can tell you I voted both Alliance and SDLP quite high.

There are constituencies where it would be stupid for a Unionist not to transfer to SDLP (I'd far rather have an SDLP MLA than another from SF).

Bojabob said:

Charles said:

Bojabob said:

Charles said:

Bojabob said:

Charles said:

Bojabob said:

Charles said:

Bojabob said:

HYUFD said:

kle4 said:

Yes, bad day for unionism sounds about right. Perhaps not as inevitable a death knell as some would have it, but hardly great.

How soon until direct rule, and how's Foster doing ?

Brokenshire and May will do anything they can to avoid direct rule, even allowing a SF UUP Alliance deal if neither SF nor the SDLP will work with the Foster led DUP

Would see Michelle O'Neill as First Minister and the youngest ever politician to lead one of the four nations of the UK.

On a less trivial note, you would have someone leading a county which she does believe has any right to exist – SF considers Northern Ireland to be an illegitimate entity. Ate there any such examples globally of such a phenomenon?

Nicola Sturgeon?

Sturgeon was 44 when she became first minister.

O'Neill would be only 40.

Second part of the question

Also not Sturgeon as she is leading Scotland – a nation she considers fully legitimate.

She's not: she's a regional first minister in a state she considers illegitimate

Scotland is a country within a state if we are being pedantic (which of course we are, this being PB).

But it's not an independent legal entity (which is what distinguishes "a nation" from "existing in a state of nationhood"

My question was whether there any any other global examples of a person leading a country he or she considers to be illegitimate, which would be the case were O'Neill to become first minister of NI but is certainly not the case with Sturgeon (in fact the opposite is true in the latter's case).

Northern Ireland isnt a country either. It has the same status as Scotland.

Sunil_Prasannan said:

williamglenn said:

RobD said:

williamglenn said:

On topic - Theresa May seems to fancy her party as the unionists of last resort. Perhaps if she means what she says about 'one people' she should break with the past and start campaigning in NI.

The Tories do field candidates in the Northern Ireland. Unfortunately the NI Tory Surge Klaxon has yet to be heard.

Yes, beaten by UKIP in the last GE.

UKIP the true UK party, elected representatives in all four Home Nations.

The Tories have one NI councillor!

TheScreamingEagles said:

What a moron Trump is

They've already had plenty of warning on this one, so an extra week isn't going to make that much difference!

another_richard said:

Bojabob said:

Pulpstar said:

A very good article, and thanks for the tips - your instinct to broadly lay the DUP was correct !

It is a shame the SDLP, UUP and alliance aren't doing better to be perfectly honest - I do think SF are correct to ask for Arlene Fosters' resignation though.

The map of Northern Ireland is interesting. There is clear nationalist territory standing between Eire and the unionist seats, with West Belfast looking a bit like West Berlin used to as a sort of nationalist enclave within the unionist part !

Ha I spotted that too. Hard to see why the western counties of NI remained in the UK when Ireland gained independence – demographic change?

I think Fermanagh and Tyrone were always majority Catholic - together with southern Armagh, southern Down and western Londonderry.

It was meant to have been sorted out in the 1920s but wasn't:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Boundary_Commission

At the 1918 Erection:

Fermanagh was 53.59% Nationalist, 46.41 Unionist
Tyrone was 54.60% Nationalist, 45.40 Unionist

Among the other counties:
Armagh South was 100% Nationalist
Londonderry City was 51.50% Nationalist, 48.50 Unionist
Down South was 59.39% Nationalist, 37.66 Unionist, 2.95 other
Down East was 57.83% Nationalist, 42.17 Unionist

Sean_F said:

Lucian_Fletcher said:

Pulpstar said:

Lucian How did you transfer if I may be so bold to ask ?

I'm guessing you are a 1) NI Conservatives (If they were in your seat) 2) UUP man, but thereafter ?

Were I not actively a UUP supporter you would have been right but no. I went the other way round. Without going through the lot I can tell you I voted both Alliance and SDLP quite high.

There are constituencies where it would be stupid for a Unionist not to transfer to SDLP (I'd far rather have an SDLP MLA than another from SF).

I have been ranting about transfers today. At stage 2 in the FST count the exceedingly transfer friendly and general nice guy from the SDLP ended up 50 or so votes behind the third SF candidate who I voted 12 of 12 (I put terror sympathisers and naive youngsters ahead of convicted terrorists). There were hundreds of non-transferable votes from the TUV, Con, All, Green and Labour candidates....

Aaaarrgghhh.

Scott_P said:

The stench of death is surrounding the Labour Party...

@theobertram: Based on everything I've seen & heard these last two weeks, publicly & privately, I am no longer optimistic about Labour's long term future.

@curiusblack: @theobertram @JohnRentoul people saying @DavidLammy would make a good leader

I suspect no-one has ever seen such a performance on Mastermind:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DsR4Nx-ELgc

HYUFD said:

Bojabob said:

HYUFD said:

williamglenn said:

RobD said:

williamglenn said:

On topic - Theresa May seems to fancy her party as the unionists of last resort. Perhaps if she means what she says about 'one people' she should break with the past and start campaigning in NI.

The Tories do field candidates in the Northern Ireland. Unfortunately the NI Tory Surge Klaxon has yet to be heard.

Yes, beaten by UKIP in the last GE.

The Tories are closer to the UUP, UKIP the DUP and it is the latter which is the loudest voice in current Unionism

Yes the DUP are a hard-right grouping that entertain some pretty choice views well beyond their constitutional principles.

Yes, they are the Kippers of Ulster

I once went to a hear William Mcrea give a speech on the EU. I agreed with quite a lot of it, until he claimed EU civil servants carried the Mark of the Beast in their wallets.

kle4 said:

Alanbrooke said:

Germany and France saying Europe must move at different speeds


http://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/berlin-und-paris-werben-fuer-europa-verschiedener-geschwindigkeiten-14912622.html

stupid Dave didnt take the offer

How much they would truly have committed to that idea before Brexit I have my doubts. Brexit may have been necessary to create the sort of EU that, ironically, more could live with.

it is rather ironic

a EU at your own speed I would have voted for

Alanbrooke said:

Germany and France saying Europe must move at different speeds


http://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/berlin-und-paris-werben-fuer-europa-verschiedener-geschwindigkeiten-14912622.html

stupid Dave didnt take the offer

Yes he did. Dave's deal specifically removed us from 'ever greater union'. Sadly, the zealots were too preoccupied being rude about it to notice.

Sunil_Prasannan said:

another_richard said:

Bojabob said:

Pulpstar said:

A very good article, and thanks for the tips - your instinct to broadly lay the DUP was correct !

It is a shame the SDLP, UUP and alliance aren't doing better to be perfectly honest - I do think SF are correct to ask for Arlene Fosters' resignation though.

The map of Northern Ireland is interesting. There is clear nationalist territory standing between Eire and the unionist seats, with West Belfast looking a bit like West Berlin used to as a sort of nationalist enclave within the unionist part !

Ha I spotted that too. Hard to see why the western counties of NI remained in the UK when Ireland gained independence – demographic change?

I think Fermanagh and Tyrone were always majority Catholic - together with southern Armagh, southern Down and western Londonderry.

It was meant to have been sorted out in the 1920s but wasn't:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Boundary_Commission

At the 1918 Erection:

Fermanagh was 53.59% Nationalist, 46.41 Unionist
Tyrone was 54.60% Nationalist, 45.40 Unionist

Among the other counties:
Armagh South was 100% Nationalist
Londonderry City was 51.50% Nationalist, 48.50 Unionist
Down South was 59.39% Nationalist, 37.66 Unionist, 2.95 other
Down East was 57.83% Nationalist, 42.17 Unionist

Looks like 1918 was a particularly arousing year politically!

Stark_Dawning said:

Alanbrooke said:

Germany and France saying Europe must move at different speeds


http://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/berlin-und-paris-werben-fuer-europa-verschiedener-geschwindigkeiten-14912622.html

stupid Dave didnt take the offer

Yes he did. Dave's deal specifically removed us from 'ever greater union'. Sadly, the zealots were too preoccupied being rude about it to notice.

lol

this is not about zealots its about a PM offering his electorate a bag of shit and telling them its gold

Sean_F said:

HYUFD said:

Bojabob said:

HYUFD said:

williamglenn said:

RobD said:

williamglenn said:

On topic - Theresa May seems to fancy her party as the unionists of last resort. Perhaps if she means what she says about 'one people' she should break with the past and start campaigning in NI.

The Tories do field candidates in the Northern Ireland. Unfortunately the NI Tory Surge Klaxon has yet to be heard.

Yes, beaten by UKIP in the last GE.

The Tories are closer to the UUP, UKIP the DUP and it is the latter which is the loudest voice in current Unionism

Yes the DUP are a hard-right grouping that entertain some pretty choice views well beyond their constitutional principles.

Yes, they are the Kippers of Ulster

I once went to a hear William Mcrea give a speech on the EU. I agreed with quite a lot of it, until he claimed EU civil servants carried the Mark of the Beast in their wallets.

You knew that they carried that mark upon their flesh.

RobD said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

williamglenn said:

RobD said:

williamglenn said:

On topic - Theresa May seems to fancy her party as the unionists of last resort. Perhaps if she means what she says about 'one people' she should break with the past and start campaigning in NI.

The Tories do field candidates in the Northern Ireland. Unfortunately the NI Tory Surge Klaxon has yet to be heard.

Yes, beaten by UKIP in the last GE.

UKIP the true UK party, elected representatives in all four Home Nations.

The Tories have one NI councillor!

He stands ready to lead, if his country calls....

Lucian_Fletcher said:

Sean_F said:

Lucian_Fletcher said:

Pulpstar said:

Lucian How did you transfer if I may be so bold to ask ?

I'm guessing you are a 1) NI Conservatives (If they were in your seat) 2) UUP man, but thereafter ?

Were I not actively a UUP supporter you would have been right but no. I went the other way round. Without going through the lot I can tell you I voted both Alliance and SDLP quite high.

There are constituencies where it would be stupid for a Unionist not to transfer to SDLP (I'd far rather have an SDLP MLA than another from SF).

I have been ranting about transfers today. At stage 2 in the FST count the exceedingly transfer friendly and general nice guy from the SDLP ended up 50 or so votes behind the third SF candidate who I voted 12 of 12 (I put terror sympathisers and naive youngsters ahead of convicted terrorists). There were hundreds of non-transferable votes from the TUV, Con, All, Green and Labour candidates....

Aaaarrgghhh.

If I had a vote, I'd always vote SDLP (or PBP) ahead of SF or any Unionist candidate who had paramilitary links. But, you're quite right, Ritchie McPhilips could have got in on Unionist and other transfers. I'm pleased the SDLP made it in East Londonderry and Upper Bann.

How on earth can the betting markets think that François Fillon still has nearly an 18% chance of winning this two-stage gig?

TheScreamingEagles said:

What a moron Trump is

WIll you be trying to sneak in, TSE?

TheScreamingEagles said:

Sean_F said:

HYUFD said:

Bojabob said:

HYUFD said:

williamglenn said:

RobD said:

williamglenn said:

On topic - Theresa May seems to fancy her party as the unionists of last resort. Perhaps if she means what she says about 'one people' she should break with the past and start campaigning in NI.

The Tories do field candidates in the Northern Ireland. Unfortunately the NI Tory Surge Klaxon has yet to be heard.

Yes, beaten by UKIP in the last GE.

The Tories are closer to the UUP, UKIP the DUP and it is the latter which is the loudest voice in current Unionism

Yes the DUP are a hard-right grouping that entertain some pretty choice views well beyond their constitutional principles.

Yes, they are the Kippers of Ulster

I once went to a hear William Mcrea give a speech on the EU. I agreed with quite a lot of it, until he claimed EU civil servants carried the Mark of the Beast in their wallets.

A few years ago, a history teacher acquaintance of mine speculated the reason for the DUP's hatred of the EU was because virulent anti-Papist views.

If only the Treaty of Rome had been signed in say Paris or Bonn, the DUP would have been pro-EU.

Or Worms.
Farage and co would love to describe it as the Treaty of worms.

Sunil_Prasannan said:

HYUFD said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

another_richard said:

Bojabob said:

Pulpstar said:

A very good article, and thanks for the tips - your instinct to broadly lay the DUP was correct !

It is a shame the SDLP, UUP and alliance aren't doing better to be perfectly honest - I do think SF are correct to ask for Arlene Fosters' resignation though.

The map of Northern Ireland is interesting. There is clear nationalist territory standing between Eire and the unionist seats, with West Belfast looking a bit like West Berlin used to as a sort of nationalist enclave within the unionist part !

Ha I spotted that too. Hard to see why the western counties of NI remained in the UK when Ireland gained independence – demographic change?

I think Fermanagh and Tyrone were always majority Catholic - together with southern Armagh, southern Down and western Londonderry.

It was meant to have been sorted out in the 1920s but wasn't:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Boundary_Commission

At the 1918 Erection:

Fermanagh was 53.59% Nationalist, 46.41 Unionist
Tyrone was 54.60% Nationalist, 45.40 Unionist

Among the other counties:
Armagh South was 100% Nationalist
Londonderry City was 51.50% Nationalist, 48.50 Unionist
Down South was 59.39% Nationalist, 37.66 Unionist, 2.95 other
Down East was 57.83% Nationalist, 42.17 Unionist

Looks like 1918 was a particularly arousing year politically!

I blame auto-erect

Yes, gives me problems too

TheScreamingEagles said:

Sean_F said:

HYUFD said:

Bojabob said:

HYUFD said:

williamglenn said:

RobD said:

williamglenn said:

On topic - Theresa May seems to fancy her party as the unionists of last resort. Perhaps if she means what she says about 'one people' she should break with the past and start campaigning in NI.

The Tories do field candidates in the Northern Ireland. Unfortunately the NI Tory Surge Klaxon has yet to be heard.

Yes, beaten by UKIP in the last GE.

The Tories are closer to the UUP, UKIP the DUP and it is the latter which is the loudest voice in current Unionism

Yes the DUP are a hard-right grouping that entertain some pretty choice views well beyond their constitutional principles.

Yes, they are the Kippers of Ulster

I once went to a hear William Mcrea give a speech on the EU. I agreed with quite a lot of it, until he claimed EU civil servants carried the Mark of the Beast in their wallets.

A few years ago, a history teacher acquaintance of mine speculated the reason for the DUP's hatred of the EU was because virulent anti-Papist views.

If only the Treaty of Rome had been signed in say Paris or Bonn, the DUP would have been pro-EU.

I once went to a Free Presbyterian service, and struggled to keep a straight face as we sang "Our fathers knew thee, Rome of old, and evil is thy fame."

Sean_F said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Sean_F said:

HYUFD said:

Bojabob said:

HYUFD said:

williamglenn said:

RobD said:

williamglenn said:

On topic - Theresa May seems to fancy her party as the unionists of last resort. Perhaps if she means what she says about 'one people' she should break with the past and start campaigning in NI.

The Tories do field candidates in the Northern Ireland. Unfortunately the NI Tory Surge Klaxon has yet to be heard.

Yes, beaten by UKIP in the last GE.

The Tories are closer to the UUP, UKIP the DUP and it is the latter which is the loudest voice in current Unionism

Yes the DUP are a hard-right grouping that entertain some pretty choice views well beyond their constitutional principles.

Yes, they are the Kippers of Ulster

I once went to a hear William Mcrea give a speech on the EU. I agreed with quite a lot of it, until he claimed EU civil servants carried the Mark of the Beast in their wallets.

A few years ago, a history teacher acquaintance of mine speculated the reason for the DUP's hatred of the EU was because virulent anti-Papist views.

If only the Treaty of Rome had been signed in say Paris or Bonn, the DUP would have been pro-EU.

I once went to a Free Presbyterian service, and struggled to keep a straight face as we sang "Our fathers knew thee, Rome of old, and evil is thy fame."

Did they also sing 'No more Catholics left'?

TheScreamingEagles said:

Sean_F said:

HYUFD said:

Bojabob said:

HYUFD said:

williamglenn said:

RobD said:

williamglenn said:

On topic - Theresa May seems to fancy her party as the unionists of last resort. Perhaps if she means what she says about 'one people' she should break with the past and start campaigning in NI.

The Tories do field candidates in the Northern Ireland. Unfortunately the NI Tory Surge Klaxon has yet to be heard.

Yes, beaten by UKIP in the last GE.

The Tories are closer to the UUP, UKIP the DUP and it is the latter which is the loudest voice in current Unionism

Yes the DUP are a hard-right grouping that entertain some pretty choice views well beyond their constitutional principles.

Yes, they are the Kippers of Ulster

I once went to a hear William Mcrea give a speech on the EU. I agreed with quite a lot of it, until he claimed EU civil servants carried the Mark of the Beast in their wallets.

A few years ago, a history teacher acquaintance of mine speculated the reason for the DUP's hatred of the EU was because virulent anti-Papist views.

If only the Treaty of Rome had been signed in say Paris or Bonn, the DUP would have been pro-EU.

But they were also warned by Doctor Who:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u75ArXBMQ5c

Theuniondivvie said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Sean_F said:

HYUFD said:

Bojabob said:

HYUFD said:

williamglenn said:

RobD said:

williamglenn said:

On topic - Theresa May seems to fancy her party as the unionists of last resort. Perhaps if she means what she says about 'one people' she should break with the past and start campaigning in NI.

The Tories do field candidates in the Northern Ireland. Unfortunately the NI Tory Surge Klaxon has yet to be heard.

Yes, beaten by UKIP in the last GE.

The Tories are closer to the UUP, UKIP the DUP and it is the latter which is the loudest voice in current Unionism

Yes the DUP are a hard-right grouping that entertain some pretty choice views well beyond their constitutional principles.

Yes, they are the Kippers of Ulster

I once went to a hear William Mcrea give a speech on the EU. I agreed with quite a lot of it, until he claimed EU civil servants carried the Mark of the Beast in their wallets.

A few years ago, a history teacher acquaintance of mine speculated the reason for the DUP's hatred of the EU was because virulent anti-Papist views.

If only the Treaty of Rome had been signed in say Paris or Bonn, the DUP would have been pro-EU.

Or Worms.
Farage and co would love to describe it as the Treaty of worms.

The Cathedral of Worms is awesome.

A soundtrack to your evening:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4oOZ-fDhzmo

tlg86 said:

Because he's still polling 19% or so despite all the trouble. If he comes through this he might poll better - I think Pulpstar is right to make the comparison to the generic Republican v Clinton polling in the US.

It's true that some of the Les Républican rats who jumped off his ship in droves seem to be scrabbling back on board, presumably because there's no other vessel in sight.

Le Figaro has just published this rather good account of the to-ing and fro-ing:

http://www.lefigaro.fr/elections/presidentielles/2017/03/06/35003-20170306ARTFIG00315-fillon-impose-sa-candidature-a-la-droite.php

Even so...

SeanT said:

Stark_Dawning said:

Alanbrooke said:

Germany and France saying Europe must move at different speeds


http://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/berlin-und-paris-werben-fuer-europa-verschiedener-geschwindigkeiten-14912622.html

stupid Dave didnt take the offer

Yes he did. Dave's deal specifically removed us from 'ever greater union'. Sadly, the zealots were too preoccupied being rude about it to notice.

If the EU reforms NOW it will be BECAUSE of Brexit. Tho I have serious doubts that it will, we're on an economic upswing, the desire for reform within the EU is minimal, the innate tendency is towards greater integration anyway (as that's in the the EU's DNA). Instead the EU will bumble on towards Federation, without ever going fast enough to save the failing periphery.

Cameron's demands and renegotiations were literally worthless. He knew it, they knew it, it was a pretendy charade. Trouble is, when he came back and told the people about his "deal", that's when everyone knew it.

Cameron blew it. A horribly overrated wanker, a man who overrated himself, most of all. Thus: his disgrace.

Most people in Europe, when they talk of reform of the EU, mean greater integration. They propose reforming the democratic deficit, not returning powers to member states.

Theuniondivvie said:

Bojabob said:

Sean_F said:

Lucian_Fletcher said:

Sean_F said:

Lucian_Fletcher said:

Pulpstar said:

Lucian How did you transfer if I may be so bold to ask ?

I'm guessing you are a 1) NI Conservatives (If they were in your seat) 2) UUP man, but thereafter ?

Were I not actively a UUP supporter you would have been right but no. I went the other way round. Without going through the lot I can tell you I voted both Alliance and SDLP quite high.

There are constituencies where it would be stupid for a Unionist not to transfer to SDLP (I'd far rather have an SDLP MLA than another from SF).

I have been ranting about transfers today. At stage 2 in the FST count the exceedingly transfer friendly and general nice guy from the SDLP ended up 50 or so votes behind the third SF candidate who I voted 12 of 12 (I put terror sympathisers and naive youngsters ahead of convicted terrorists). There were hundreds of non-transferable votes from the TUV, Con, All, Green and Labour candidates....

Aaaarrgghhh.

If I had a vote, I'd always vote SDLP (or PBP) ahead of SF or any Unionist candidate who had paramilitary links. But, you're quite right, Ritchie McPhilips could have got in on Unionist and other transfers. I'm pleased the SDLP made it in East Londonderry and Upper Bann.

The late 1990s marked a brief period of modest success in Northern Ireland for the Progressive Unionist Party – a socialist party that is the political wing of the UVF.

Had a lot of time for David Ervine, tragic that he died prematurely.

Indeed, read a fascinating long article biography about Ervine and Gusty Spence.

Truly remarkable people.

Will Nevada ever recover from the housing bust? - http://ftalphaville.ft.com/2017/03/06/2185515/will-nevada-ever-recover-from-the-housing-bust/ via @FT

rcs1000 said:

SeanT said:

Stark_Dawning said:

Alanbrooke said:

Germany and France saying Europe must move at different speeds


http://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/berlin-und-paris-werben-fuer-europa-verschiedener-geschwindigkeiten-14912622.html

stupid Dave didnt take the offer

Yes he did. Dave's deal specifically removed us from 'ever greater union'. Sadly, the zealots were too preoccupied being rude about it to notice.

If the EU reforms NOW it will be BECAUSE of Brexit. Tho I have serious doubts that it will, we're on an economic upswing, the desire for reform within the EU is minimal, the innate tendency is towards greater integration anyway (as that's in the the EU's DNA). Instead the EU will bumble on towards Federation, without ever going fast enough to save the failing periphery.

Cameron's demands and renegotiations were literally worthless. He knew it, they knew it, it was a pretendy charade. Trouble is, when he came back and told the people about his "deal", that's when everyone knew it.

Cameron blew it. A horribly overrated wanker, a man who overrated himself, most of all. Thus: his disgrace.

Most people in Europe, when they talk of reform of the EU, mean greater integration. They propose reforming the democratic deficit, not returning powers to member states.

I think there is a huge difference between the elite vision of what you describe vs the people's expectations which is mostly for a looser arrangement and returning power to national legislature.

Theuniondivvie said:

Sad!

//twitter.com/ben_machell/status/838688527290368000

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Sunil060902/sandbox

SeanT said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Theuniondivvie said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Sean_F said:

HYUFD said:

Bojabob said:

HYUFD said:

williamglenn said:

RobD said:

williamglenn said:

On topic - Theresa May seems to fancy her party as the unionists of last resort. Perhaps if she means what she says about 'one people' she should break with the past and start campaigning in NI.

The Tories do field candidates in the Northern Ireland. Unfortunately the NI Tory Surge Klaxon has yet to be heard.

Yes, beaten by UKIP in the last GE.

The Tories are closer to the UUP, UKIP the DUP and it is the latter which is the loudest voice in current Unionism

Yes the DUP are a hard-right grouping that entertain some pretty choice views well beyond their constitutional principles.

Yes, they are the Kippers of Ulster

I once went to a hear William Mcrea give a speech on the EU. I agreed with quite a lot of it, until he claimed EU civil servants carried the Mark of the Beast in their wallets.

A few years ago, a history teacher acquaintance of mine speculated the reason for the DUP's hatred of the EU was because virulent anti-Papist views.

If only the Treaty of Rome had been signed in say Paris or Bonn, the DUP would have been pro-EU.

Or Worms.
Farage and co would love to describe it as the Treaty of worms.

The Cathedral of Worms is awesome.

Top five best cathedrals in the world, reverse order


5. Notre Dame, Paris, France
4. St Basil's, Moscow, Russia
3. St Peter's, Rome, Italy
2. Blessed Mary and Cuthbert, Durham, England
1. THE LOST CATHEDRAL OF BATOPILAS, THE COPPER CANYON, MEXICO

Beat that, PB. I've seen 'em all. And I've been to THE LOST CATHEDRAL. We had to fly out (literally, by private plane).

And at how many did you contribute to the running costs so that others less successful than you can enjoy them in future generations?

Plank said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/838850204405223426

The article states that the research might allow farmers to delay breeding. Not normally a problem as sheep cycle for such a long period it is simple to introduce the ram later in the year. The usual challenge is to start them cycling (ovulating) early as the first lambs to market in the spring get the highest prices, even if it means buying more feed to supplement the grass. One method is to insert progesterone soaked sponges, like tampons, into the ewes. After two weeks remove them and inject the ewe with PMSG, pregnant horse wee in layman's speak. The sheep start to cycle about two days later. Of course this being a modern scientific age powdered horse wee is available to be reconstituted before use.

The other day someone tried to persuade me to invest in a company making pessaries for mice. ..

SeanT said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Theuniondivvie said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Sean_F said:

HYUFD said:

Bojabob said:

HYUFD said:

williamglenn said:

RobD said:

williamglenn said:

On topic - Theresa May seems to fancy her party as the unionists of last resort. Perhaps if she means what she says about 'one people' she should break with the past and start campaigning in NI.

The Tories do field candidates in the Northern Ireland. Unfortunately the NI Tory Surge Klaxon has yet to be heard.

Yes, beaten by UKIP in the last GE.

The Tories are closer to the UUP, UKIP the DUP and it is the latter which is the loudest voice in current Unionism

Yes the DUP are a hard-right grouping that entertain some pretty choice views well beyond their constitutional principles.

Yes, they are the Kippers of Ulster

I once went to a hear William Mcrea give a speech on the EU. I agreed with quite a lot of it, until he claimed EU civil servants carried the Mark of the Beast in their wallets.

A few years ago, a history teacher acquaintance of mine speculated the reason for the DUP's hatred of the EU was because virulent anti-Papist views.

If only the Treaty of Rome had been signed in say Paris or Bonn, the DUP would have been pro-EU.

Or Worms.
Farage and co would love to describe it as the Treaty of worms.

The Cathedral of Worms is awesome.

Top five best cathedrals in the world, reverse order


5. Notre Dame, Paris, France
4. St Basil's, Moscow, Russia
3. St Peter's, Rome, Italy
2. Blessed Mary and Cuthbert, Durham, England
1. THE LOST CATHEDRAL OF BATOPILAS, THE COPPER CANYON, MEXICO

Beat that, PB. I've seen 'em all. And I've been to THE LOST CATHEDRAL. We had to fly out (literally, by private plane).

[swaggering] Have you visited the nearly 700 train, tube and tram stations in the London Oystercard area?

Have you? Ha!

Charles said:

Plank said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/838850204405223426

The article states that the research might allow farmers to delay breeding. Not normally a problem as sheep cycle for such a long period it is simple to introduce the ram later in the year. The usual challenge is to start them cycling (ovulating) early as the first lambs to market in the spring get the highest prices, even if it means buying more feed to supplement the grass. One method is to insert progesterone soaked sponges, like tampons, into the ewes. After two weeks remove them and inject the ewe with PMSG, pregnant horse wee in layman's speak. The sheep start to cycle about two days later. Of course this being a modern scientific age powdered horse wee is available to be reconstituted before use.

The other day someone tried to persuade me to invest in a company making pessaries for mice. ..

Well don't keep us in suspense - how much did you invest with them?

And now pessary is a word in my vocabulary.

TheScreamingEagles said:

https://twitter.com/sportingindex/status/838872918415314947

yeah yeah

Scrapheap_as_was said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

https://twitter.com/sportingindex/status/838872918415314947

yeah yeah

I'm not saying anything

Scott_P said:

@michaelsavage: Wow - William Hague making the strong case for an early election feels like a bit of a moment.

I would appreciate if they didn't....I have a lot of work on over the next few months, and a month of Jahadi Jez making a berk of himself on a daily basis won't do a lot for my productivity levels.

SeanT said:

Indeed. And that is the fundamental, unreformable flaw in the EU. Language and people. There literally CANNOT be a European demos, able and willing to hold the European elite to account - telling them to integrate or devolve. There is no shared public space, no fervent and widely read EU media, no agreed social space, there is no essential European newspaper, broadcaster, radio station, no European forum and piazza where we can come together to debate and discuss.

We speak 98 different languages, FFS.

Clarke's first law

SeanT said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Theuniondivvie said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Sean_F said:

HYUFD said:

Bojabob said:

HYUFD said:

williamglenn said:

RobD said:

williamglenn said:

On topic - Theresa May seems to fancy her party as the unionists of last resort. Perhaps if she means what she says about 'one people' she should break with the past and start campaigning in NI.

The Tories do field candidates in the Northern Ireland. Unfortunately the NI Tory Surge Klaxon has yet to be heard.

Yes, beaten by UKIP in the last GE.

The Tories are closer to the UUP, UKIP the DUP and it is the latter which is the loudest voice in current Unionism

Yes the DUP are a hard-right grouping that entertain some pretty choice views well beyond their constitutional principles.

Yes, they are the Kippers of Ulster

I once went to a hear William Mcrea give a speech on the EU. I agreed with quite a lot of it, until he claimed EU civil servants carried the Mark of the Beast in their wallets.

A few years ago, a history teacher acquaintance of mine speculated the reason for the DUP's hatred of the EU was because virulent anti-Papist views.

If only the Treaty of Rome had been signed in say Paris or Bonn, the DUP would have been pro-EU.

Or Worms.
Farage and co would love to describe it as the Treaty of worms.

The Cathedral of Worms is awesome.

Top five best cathedrals in the world, reverse order


5. Notre Dame, Paris, France
4. St Basil's, Moscow, Russia
3. St Peter's, Rome, Italy
2. Blessed Mary and Cuthbert, Durham, England
1. THE LOST CATHEDRAL OF BATOPILAS, THE COPPER CANYON, MEXICO

Beat that, PB. I've seen 'em all. And I've been to THE LOST CATHEDRAL. We had to fly out (literally, by private plane).

Can't argue with that list, although an honourable mention to Iona Abbey for its overwhelming power of something religious going on...

FrancisUrquhart said:

"We have begun our tea offensive." - John McDonnell

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39188070

"The biggest fear the Tories have is a united Labour Party," a source close to Mr McDonnell said.

Not if it is united around Corbyn, my old china....

MarqueeMark said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

"We have begun our tea offensive." - John McDonnell

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39188070

"The biggest fear the Tories have is a united Labour Party," a source close to Mr McDonnell said.

Not if it is united around Corbyn, my old china....

Well, quite. I guess it's good he's dialing back on the conspiracy theorist ramblings, and I imagine they would be doing a bit better if they were truly united, but it falls in to the same trap as praising a politician who is principled.

Someone being principled is of marginal benefit if their principles range from abhorrent to merely unpopular (in fairness to Corbyn and co, some of theirs will also happen to be popular), and people may like a unified party, but if it is unified round the wrong things, you still won't win with enough people solely because you are unified.

Additionally, there may still be more than unites than divides them (although frankly I doubt that, the intensity of dislike between some factions, particularly in Labour at the moment but not exclusively with them, is so strong I think many would be better off leaving their tribes), but very serious ideological differences on top of any concerns about effectiveness cannot be wished away just because you pretend to ignore them for the sake of unity. All that gets you is a bunch of people after an election saying 'yeah, I knew we'd lose if we did that, but for the sake of loyalty I lied to peoples' faces'.

FrancisUrquhart said:

"We have begun our tea offensive." - John McDonnell

Victory? Master McDonnell-Wan, a victory you say? [shakes head sadly]. Begun, the tea offensive has...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dylqDO4uEXc

kle4 said:

MarqueeMark said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

"We have begun our tea offensive." - John McDonnell

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39188070

"The biggest fear the Tories have is a united Labour Party," a source close to Mr McDonnell said.

Not if it is united around Corbyn, my old china....

Well, quite. I guess it's good he's dialing back on the conspiracy theorist ramblings, and I imagine they would be doing a bit better if they were truly united, but it falls in to the same trap as praising a politician who is principled.

Someone being principled is of marginal benefit if their principles range from abhorrent to merely unpopular (in fairness to Corbyn and co, some of theirs will also happen to be popular), and people may like a unified party, but if it is unified round the wrong things, you still won't win with enough people solely because you are unified.

Additionally, there may still be more than unites than divides them (although frankly I doubt that, the intensity of dislike between some factions, particularly in Labour at the moment but not exclusively with them, is so strong I think many would be better off leaving their tribes), but very serious ideological differences on top of any concerns about effectiveness cannot be wished away just because you pretend to ignore them for the sake of unity. All that gets you is a bunch of people after an election saying 'yeah, I knew we'd lose if we did that, but for the sake of loyalty I lied to peoples' faces'.

FPTP Keeps the blues and reds together nothing else PR would make sure new alignments take place.

NickPalmer said:

SeanT said:

There is no shared public space, no fervent and widely read EU media, no agreed social space, there is no essential European newspaper, broadcaster, radio station, no European forum and piazza where we can come together to debate and discuss.

Nor there is in the United States. They have a common language, some fairly popular TV channels, and that's it. Newspapers are nearly all regional (USA Today is not the general medium that it would like to be), no TV or radio station that everyone follows, no US-wide forum or piazza. And that's AFTER 240 YEARS of being a single country.

Moreover, arguably unlike the USA, small states in the EU are generally more pro-federalist than the big ones. Ask a Brit or a Frenchman and he'll usually look a bit dubious about the EU. Ask a Dane, a Belgian, a Spaniard, a Latvian, even a Greek, and they'll usually tell you that membership is an excellent thing: that's why even now Greece doesn't want to leave the Euro. That's because the big countries know they could manage after a fashion alone. The small countries, not so much.

It's a country in development, and it will in time largely determine the direction of Europe. At some point, we will probably decide to shuffle back in.

Do you think we would be allowed back in? If the EU ever did get towards a point where it was approaching a federal state, letting us back in could be a big risk.

Paristonda said:

Fillon is becoming a point of ridicule now with what looks like desperate and deliberate attempts to imitate trump tactics.

Macron V Le Pen a cert in round two because Hamon and Mélenchon basically ensured that neither one gets any coverage, they are also-rans. So more PS voters for Macron to mop up.

I think Macron can beat Le Pen, but there's something very flimsy about his whole campaign, seems soft. Le Pen will have some very strong campaign themes to run against him, and will do better than expected (I've long thought she would beat Fillon but narrowly lose to Macron).

Pretty much agree with that. If Fillon had done the honourable thing and stepped down, then, if his protestations of innocence were well founded and he was cleared, then he would have had a very strong run for the next Presidency.

As it is, if he allows the contest to become Le Pen v Macron, then his political future is in tatters. He will be lambasted by his own Party, even more so if it leads to a surprise Le Pen victory.