politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The Times reporting that the Tories are “deeply worried” about
Options
Comments
-
Le Pen is polling a lot higher than 30%. Unfortunately there isn't so much anti-FN music in France now as there was in 2002, but that song by Bérurier Noir will hopefully be remembered on the anti-FN march in Paris on 1 May. If there isn't an anti-FN march on that day, things look bad. No pasaran!Roger said:
Great bit of footage. Thank goodness 70% of the French wouldn't vote for them if the alternative was a donkey.Cyan said:The French National Front are holding their big annual march in Paris on 1 May, between the two rounds of the presidential election. Will there be a counter-demonstration? Events on the street could have an effect on the voting. The National Front are still hated by many:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuZB9hOQ0DQ0 -
I'm to the point I've stopped listening to all the Russia nonsense. I don't see what the story is. In essence AG Sessions was asked a question during his confirmation hearing by Al Franken, and answered dishonestly. That's about it. All the rest of it seems to be just noise with the media and democrats desperately trying to link the whole "Russia" thing to the Trump administration.Nigelb said:
That there's been smoke has been obvious to all but the most one eyed observers. The probability that there is genuine combustion is increasing.GeoffM said:
Rubbish. You aren't some reluctant deep-thinking convert to the conspiracy theories.Nigelb said:
Funnily enough, the FISA procedures were put in place post Nixon in order to prevent the politically motivated use of surveillance assets against political opponents as practiced by Nixon:Y0kel said:Trump's morning ranting regarding wire tapping (in fact its a FISA warrant, no small thing) are indicative of many things in the man's personality but no one this side of the Atlantic has mentioned the biggest one:
Fear.
Seven associates in the Trump campaign had more than one private contact Russian government and/or intelligence cut outs during that election.
Seven is a lot.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Intelligence_Surveillance_Act
I'm beginning to wonder if there isn't some substance to the Russia/Trump allegations after all.
You've been an advocate of the smears all along.
That Trump is a narcissistic scofflaw, massively ignorant of the US Constitution is also pretty clear. That he actually collaborated with the Russians in subverting the electoral process would nonetheless be a surprise.
Is there a link? We don't know at present. It's just mindless noise, and calling someone a "narcissistic scofflaw" is a good example - it conveys nothing and doesn't move the subject forward.0 -
'The Russians'. How old are we?Nigelb said:
That there's been smoke has been obvious to all but the most one eyed observers. The probability that there is genuine combustion is increasing.GeoffM said:
Rubbish. You aren't some reluctant deep-thinking convert to the conspiracy theories.Nigelb said:
Funnily enough, the FISA procedures were put in place post Nixon in order to prevent the politically motivated use of surveillance assets against political opponents as practiced by Nixon:Y0kel said:Trump's morning ranting regarding wire tapping (in fact its a FISA warrant, no small thing) are indicative of many things in the man's personality but no one this side of the Atlantic has mentioned the biggest one:
Fear.
Seven associates in the Trump campaign had more than one private contact Russian government and/or intelligence cut outs during that election.
Seven is a lot.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Intelligence_Surveillance_Act
I'm beginning to wonder if there isn't some substance to the Russia/Trump allegations after all.
You've been an advocate of the smears all along.
That Trump is a narcissistic scofflaw, massively ignorant of the US Constitution is also pretty clear. That he actually collaborated with the Russians in subverting the electoral process would nonetheless be a surprise.0 -
The Rockies are what I am looking forward to!rcs1000 said:
I've done some the Canadian route, and most of it is across the plains provinces and it's actually very boring.Tim_B said:A quick vacation question for any rail buffs out there - in addition to planning a trip to the UK next year, this year I'm pondering something I haven't done since I was a teenager - ride the train.
There are essentially 2 - possibly 3 - options. They're all about 2300-2500 miles
1. The Canadian - Toronto to Vancouver
2. The California Zephyr - Chicago to San Francisco.
3. The Texas Eagle - Chicago to Texas to Los Angeles
The first two have observation dome cars etc, not sure about the Texas Eagle.
Does anyone have experience of any of these? - or suggestions?
I suspect the Canadian might have the most stunning scenery.
Annoyingly, I got off before the Rockies.0 -
-
So, either Trump or Obama is lying. I wonder which one it is.
https://twitter.com/katenocera/status/8380824031261655050 -
Massively ignorant indeed. Shouldn't a President know how to spell tapp (sic)?Nigelb said:GeoffM said:
Rubbish. You aren't some reluctant deep-thinking convert to the conspiracy theories.Nigelb said:
Funnily enough, the FISA procedures were put in place post Nixon in order to prevent the politically motivated use of surveillance assets against political opponents as practiced by Nixon:Y0kel said:Trump's morning ranting regarding wire tapping (in fact its a FISA warrant, no small thing) are indicative of many things in the man's personality but no one this side of the Atlantic has mentioned the biggest one:
Fear.
Seven associates in the Trump campaign had more than one private contact Russian government and/or intelligence cut outs during that election.
Seven is a lot.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Intelligence_Surveillance_Act
I'm beginning to wonder if there isn't some substance to the Russia/Trump allegations after all.
You've been an advocate of the smears all along.
That Trump is a narcissistic scofflaw, massively ignorant of the US Constitution is also pretty clear. That he actually collaborated with the Russians in subverting the electoral process would nonetheless be a surprise.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/politics/ct-trump-wiretaps-20170304-story.html
0 -
SLab finally adopts some left wing policies at the point when there is precisely zero chance of them enacting them. I'm sure there's a morality tale in there somewhere, not to mention a psychological study.SouthamObserver said:
Corbyn is more unpopular than May in Scotland. And more unpopular than Kezia Dugdale. SLab policies are well to the left of the SNP.Theuniondivvie said:
If you think SLab is 'Corbyn's' Labour, you haven't been paying attention. They're so not Corbynite they were even willing to have the dire Owen Smith as leader.Philip_Thompson said:
Corbyn's Labour got 19.1% in the list so why would they baulk at 22.9%?Theuniondivvie said:
You mean getting less than lamentable SLab in the constitiuency vote, and 22.9% on the List? A performance even Corbyn Labour might baulk at.felix said:
You seem happy to gloss over Ms Davidson's performance in the Scottish parliament elections just last year. Funny that.Alistair said:
No given their low,low base to work with. I find the hagiography of Ruth Davidson rather strange given the series of electoral disaster she presided over before (and during) SLab completely imploded and she picked up the scraps.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Are you predicting net losses for Scot conservatives in MayAlistair said:
Ruth Davidson, along with presiding over the Conservatives worst ever vote share at a general election, is also the only Tory leader in 22 years to have lost seats at Scottish council elections.Philip_Thompson said:
Indeed I suspect that in this year's election there will be a relative swing from SNP to the Tories compared to last time. £10 if you want a bet?Theuniondivvie said:
But surely a second referendum won't happen because 'voters across Scotland will have the chance to send a clear message to the SNP that they do not want a second independence referendum, by voting Scottish Conservative and Unionist on 4 May'?Big_G_NorthWales said:
I expect Scot Conservatives to take seats from the SNP and labour in May. The obsession with another referendum by Nicola will be her downfall as it will be lost
A scant 400 votes different in 2015 and there would be no Tory MPs in Scotland.
Oh and that was an increase of over 10% in the list share.0 -
Don't get on in Toronto. It's a long, long way from there to the mountains.Tim_B said:
The Rockies are what I am looking forward to!rcs1000 said:
I've done some the Canadian route, and most of it is across the plains provinces and it's actually very boring.Tim_B said:A quick vacation question for any rail buffs out there - in addition to planning a trip to the UK next year, this year I'm pondering something I haven't done since I was a teenager - ride the train.
There are essentially 2 - possibly 3 - options. They're all about 2300-2500 miles
1. The Canadian - Toronto to Vancouver
2. The California Zephyr - Chicago to San Francisco.
3. The Texas Eagle - Chicago to Texas to Los Angeles
The first two have observation dome cars etc, not sure about the Texas Eagle.
Does anyone have experience of any of these? - or suggestions?
I suspect the Canadian might have the most stunning scenery.
Annoyingly, I got off before the Rockies.
0 -
If you believe that you'll believe anything. Ridiculous.SouthamObserver said:0 -
Ah, I was going to reply to this with some surprise as it's a hugely definitive and precise statement and therefore a massive hostage to fortune.SouthamObserver said:
I couldn't imagine that it would be issued without caveat. Then you posted the second tweet and there it is. You could drive a coach and horses through that "by the DoJ ... as part of that".
Great lawyer weaseling there.0 -
I feel sorry for them. They are reaping what was sown by others over many years. The only thing that will make Labour relevant again in Scotland is independence.Theuniondivvie said:
SLab finally adopts some left wing policies at the point when there is precisely zero chance of them enacting them. I'm sure there's a morality tale in there somewhere, not to metion a psychological study.SouthamObserver said:
Corbyn is more unpopular than May in Scotland. And more unpopular than Kezia Dugdale. SLab policies are well to the left of the SNP.Theuniondivvie said:
If you think SLab is 'Corbyn's' Labour, you haven't been paying attention. They're so not Corbynite they were even willing to have the dire Owen Smith as leader.Philip_Thompson said:
Corbyn's Labour got 19.1% in the list so why would they baulk at 22.9%?Theuniondivvie said:
You mean getting less than lamentable SLab in the constitiuency vote, and 22.9% on the List? A performance even Corbyn Labour might baulk at.felix said:
You seem happy to gloss over Ms Davidson's performance in the Scottish parliament elections just last year. Funny that.Alistair said:
No given their low,low base to work with. I find the hagiography of Ruth Davidson rather strange given the series of electoral disaster she presided over before (and during) SLab completely imploded and she picked up the scraps.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Are you predicting net losses for Scot conservatives in MayAlistair said:
Ruth Davidson, along with presiding over the Conservatives worst ever vote share at a general election, is also the only Tory leader in 22 years to have lost seats at Scottish council elections.Philip_Thompson said:
Indeed I suspect that in this year's election there will be a relative swing from SNP to the Tories compared to last time. £10 if you want a bet?Theuniondivvie said:
But surely a second referendum won't happen because 'voters across Scotland will have the chance to send a clear message to the SNP that they do not want a second independence referendum, by voting Scottish Conservative and Unionist on 4 May'?Big_G_NorthWales said:
I expect Scot Conservatives to take seats from the SNP and labour in May. The obsession with another referendum by Nicola will be her downfall as it will be lost
A scant 400 votes different in 2015 and there would be no Tory MPs in Scotland.
Oh and that was an increase of over 10% in the list share.
0 -
Potatoe.Roger said:
Massively ignorant indeed. Shouldn't a President know how to spell tapp (sic)?Nigelb said:GeoffM said:
Rubbish. You aren't some reluctant deep-thinking convert to the conspiracy theories.Nigelb said:
Funnily enough, the FISA procedures were put in place post Nixon in order to prevent the politically motivated use of surveillance assets against political opponents as practiced by Nixon:Y0kel said:Trump's morning ranting regarding wire tapping (in fact its a FISA warrant, no small thing) are indicative of many things in the man's personality but no one this side of the Atlantic has mentioned the biggest one:
Fear.
Seven associates in the Trump campaign had more than one private contact Russian government and/or intelligence cut outs during that election.
Seven is a lot.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Intelligence_Surveillance_Act
I'm beginning to wonder if there isn't some substance to the Russia/Trump allegations after all.
You've been an advocate of the smears all along.
That Trump is a narcissistic scofflaw, massively ignorant of the US Constitution is also pretty clear. That he actually collaborated with the Russians in subverting the electoral process would nonetheless be a surprise.
Trump has already given us "honered" and "unpresidented" - the latter being a genius one-word summation of the Trump phenomenon.0 -
Yes, you would expect some US citizens to be under surveillance, those on terrorist watch lists for example.GeoffM said:
Ah, I was going to reply to this with some surprise as it's a hugely definitive and precise statement and therefore a massive hostage to fortune.SouthamObserver said:
I couldn't imagine that it would be issued without caveat. Then you posted the second tweet and there it is. You could drive a coach and horses through that "by the DoJ ... as part of that".
Great lawyer weaseling there.0 -
Obama is effectively lying: see what his administration did to James Rosen and his parents.If that isn't "surveillance on a US citizen", then nothing is.SouthamObserver said:0 -
Look at the massive caveats in the full statement.MonikerDiCanio said:
If you believe that you'll believe anything. Ridiculous.SouthamObserver said:
They cherrypicked half a sentence to make a tweet headline.
No wonder it's such a terrible medium for "news".0 -
Mr. G, let's hope Fillon gets tossed overboard.0
-
I used to live in Toronto, so part of the attraction of The Canadian is getting to see old friends. I'll take my iPod and Kindle.SouthamObserver said:
Don't get on in Toronto. It's a long, long way from there to the mountains.Tim_B said:
The Rockies are what I am looking forward to!rcs1000 said:
I've done some the Canadian route, and most of it is across the plains provinces and it's actually very boring.Tim_B said:A quick vacation question for any rail buffs out there - in addition to planning a trip to the UK next year, this year I'm pondering something I haven't done since I was a teenager - ride the train.
There are essentially 2 - possibly 3 - options. They're all about 2300-2500 miles
1. The Canadian - Toronto to Vancouver
2. The California Zephyr - Chicago to San Francisco.
3. The Texas Eagle - Chicago to Texas to Los Angeles
The first two have observation dome cars etc, not sure about the Texas Eagle.
Does anyone have experience of any of these? - or suggestions?
I suspect the Canadian might have the most stunning scenery.
Annoyingly, I got off before the Rockies.0 -
The President doesn't pick people and say 'put them under watch'.
Thus, technically the Obama statement is correct but in reality he would have been aware of something as sensitive as an counter intelligence investigation of a presidential candidate's campaign, especially if it included the candidate themselves.
I've said this before but it bears noting again. The guys who handle this kind of thing within the FBI are quite a separate outfit from the rest of the FBI. Same overall management but runs very differently.0 -
Thanks. Just lawyerly vapid bilge.GeoffM said:
Look at the massive caveats in the full statement.MonikerDiCanio said:
If you believe that you'll believe anything. Ridiculous.SouthamObserver said:
They cherrypicked half a sentence to make a tweet headline.
No wonder it's such a terrible medium for "news".0 -
But is he? Does Eric Holder count as a "White House official"Tim_B said:
Obama is effectively lying: see what his administration did to James Rosen and his parents.If that isn't "surveillance on a US citizen", then nothing is.SouthamObserver said:
"neither Obama or any White House official..."
That still leaves a metric anthill of people who could have signed it and not be covered by this press release.0 -
I find that tweeted declaration rather odd, surely there must have been at least one occasion when surveillance was ordered by the WH, Obama ordered the death of an American citizen by drone for Christ sake, what’s a wiretap or two.Tim_B said:
Obama is effectively lying: see what his administration did to James Rosen and his parents.If that isn't "surveillance on a US citizen", then nothing is.SouthamObserver said:0 -
Trump's spelling mistakes are the least of the world's worries right now. What's very scary is that he comes across as erratic and utterly unhinged. Furthermore, his supporters appear to be keen to be believe everything he says, and no inclination whatsoever to question him.
EDIT: From Y0kels' statement it appears Obama isn't lying after all.0 -
If SLab was to back independence then, it is fairly self evident to me, that Independence would happen and they would be in prime position to take over from the disintegration of the SNP post independence.SouthamObserver said:
I feel sorry for them. They are reaping what was sown by others over many years. The only thing that will make Labour relevant again in Scotland is independence.
Their Unionism is an amazingly principled stand which is a rarity in this modern, politically cynical world.0 -
Trump accused Obama. Now Obama has stated categorically he never did it. One of them is lying.3GeoffM said:
But is he? Does Eric Holder count as a "White House official"Tim_B said:
Obama is effectively lying: see what his administration did to James Rosen and his parents.If that isn't "surveillance on a US citizen", then nothing is.SouthamObserver said:
"neither Obama or any White House official..."
That still leaves a metric anthill of people who could have signed it and not be covered by this press release.
0 -
Just make sure the Canadian does the Rockies in daylight - the Rocky Mountaineer is probably your better optionTim_B said:A quick vacation question for any rail buffs out there - in addition to planning a trip to the UK next year, this year I'm pondering something I haven't done since I was a teenager - ride the train.
There are essentially 2 - possibly 3 - options. They're all about 2300-2500 miles
1. The Canadian - Toronto to Vancouver
2. The California Zephyr - Chicago to San Francisco.
3. The Texas Eagle - Chicago to Texas to Los Angeles
The first two have observation dome cars etc, not sure about the Texas Eagle.
Does anyone have experience of any of these? - or suggestions?
I suspect the Canadian might have the most stunning scenery.0 -
GeoffM said:
But is he? Does Eric Holder count as a "White House official"Tim_B said:
Obama is effectively lying: see what his administration did to James Rosen and his parents.If that isn't "surveillance on a US citizen", then nothing is.SouthamObserver said:
"neither Obama or any White House official..."
That still leaves a metric anthill of people who could have signed it and not be covered by this press release.
As a cabinet member I would assume he counts. If cabinet members are not "White House Officials" then what are they?GeoffM said:
But is he? Does Eric Holder count as a "White House official"Tim_B said:
Obama is effectively lying: see what his administration did to James Rosen and his parents.If that isn't "surveillance on a US citizen", then nothing is.SouthamObserver said:
"neither Obama or any White House official..."
That still leaves a metric anthill of people who could have signed it and not be covered by this press release.0 -
Someone earlier *cough* suggested in a Betting Post that this might bring about a General Election, sooner rather than later, pointing out that odds of 3/1 or slightly better were available against a poll taking place during 2017.0
-
Let's hope so. It is probably significant they are bringing the meeting forward 24 hours. Still trying to work out whether it means he is more likely to be ditched or more likely to stay though.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. G, let's hope Fillon gets tossed overboard.
0 -
Trump is the definitive loud and brash New York deal maker, and is given to hyperbole and mis-statement. But given Obama's long record of outright lying and deceit, (he was even made 'Liar of the Year' by the normally supine Washington Post) I'd go for the proven liar over the blowhard.SouthamObserver said:
Trump accused Obama. Now Obama has stated categorically he never did it. One of them is lying.3GeoffM said:
But is he? Does Eric Holder count as a "White House official"Tim_B said:
Obama is effectively lying: see what his administration did to James Rosen and his parents.If that isn't "surveillance on a US citizen", then nothing is.SouthamObserver said:
"neither Obama or any White House official..."
That still leaves a metric anthill of people who could have signed it and not be covered by this press release.0 -
BlockQuote disaster zone0
-
GeoffM said:
But is he? Does Eric Holder count as a "White House official"Tim_B said:
Obama is effectively lying: see what his administration did to James Rosen and his parents.If that isn't "surveillance on a US citizen", then nothing is.SouthamObserver said:
"neither Obama or any White House official..."
That still leaves a metric anthill of people who could have signed it and not be covered by this press release.
I'm not sure and it's a technical distinction I guess.Tim_B said:
As a cabinet member I would assume he counts. If cabinet members are not "White House Officials" then what are they?
Boris Johnson isn't a Foreign Office Official but his Permanent Secretary is one.
That sounds right to me.0 -
I'm on 12/1 for 2017 and 16/1 for both 2018 and 2019. The latter two are both currently 10/1 with Ladbrokes and they're probably decent prices.peter_from_putney said:Someone earlier *cough* suggested in a Betting Post that this might bring about a General Election, sooner rather than later, pointing out that odds of 3/1 or slightly better were available against a poll taking place during 2017.
0 -
It is clearly hugely disadvantageous to them, but so is all the old machine baggage. Labour took Scotland for granted, did not take the SNP seriously and has paid the price.Alistair said:
If SLab was to back independence then, it is fairly self evident to me, that Independence would happen and they would be in prime position to take over from the disintegration of the SNP post independence.SouthamObserver said:
I feel sorry for them. They are reaping what was sown by others over many years. The only thing that will make Labour relevant again in Scotland is independence.
Their Unionism is an amazingly principled stand which is a rarity in this modern, politically cynical world.
0 -
Hasn't Trump lied e.g. the most Electoral College votes since Ronald Reagan stuff?Tim_B said:
Trump is the definitive loud and brash New York deal maker, and is given to hyperbole and mis-statement. But given Obama's long record of outright lying and deceit, (he was even made 'Liar of the Year' by the normally supine Washington Post) I'd go for the proven liar over the blowhard.SouthamObserver said:
Trump accused Obama. Now Obama has stated categorically he never did it. One of them is lying.3GeoffM said:
But is he? Does Eric Holder count as a "White House official"Tim_B said:
Obama is effectively lying: see what his administration did to James Rosen and his parents.If that isn't "surveillance on a US citizen", then nothing is.SouthamObserver said:
"neither Obama or any White House official..."
That still leaves a metric anthill of people who could have signed it and not be covered by this press release.0 -
Liverpool = champions when playing north london clubs, iffy against the rest.0
-
Maurinho watchers might like to file this under 'you couldn't make it up....'
From the BBC report
"................Both players could face retrospective action if referee Kevin Friend says he did not see either incident.
"Zlatan is a big man," added 54-year-old Mourinho.
"We are from that generation of street football and football for big guys. We are not the kind of generation who goes to the media and cries about what happened."0 -
Given to hyperbole and mis-statement. That's up there with alternative facts :-DTim_B said:
Trump is the definitive loud and brash New York deal maker, and is given to hyperbole and mis-statement. But given Obama's long record of outright lying and deceit, (he was even made 'Liar of the Year' by the normally supine Washington Post) I'd go for the proven liar over the blowhard.SouthamObserver said:
Trump accused Obama. Now Obama has stated categorically he never did it. One of them is lying.3GeoffM said:
But is he? Does Eric Holder count as a "White House official"Tim_B said:
Obama is effectively lying: see what his administration did to James Rosen and his parents.If that isn't "surveillance on a US citizen", then nothing is.SouthamObserver said:
"neither Obama or any White House official..."
That still leaves a metric anthill of people who could have signed it and not be covered by this press release.
But the good thing here is that we will find out. Trump has the power to release the information he has demonstrating that Obama did what he has claimed. And he is clearly obliged to do so.
0 -
That is a thought provoking post.Does SLAB have many voices asking to change this stance ?Alistair said:
If SLab was to back independence then, it is fairly self evident to me, that Independence would happen and they would be in prime position to take over from the disintegration of the SNP post independence.SouthamObserver said:
I feel sorry for them. They are reaping what was sown by others over many years. The only thing that will make Labour relevant again in Scotland is independence.
Their Unionism is an amazingly principled stand which is a rarity in this modern, politically cynical world.0 -
Nice betting - oh yea!AlastairMeeks said:
I'm on 12/1 for 2017 and 16/1 for both 2018 and 2019. The latter two are both currently 10/1 with Ladbrokes and they're probably decent prices.peter_from_putney said:Someone earlier *cough* suggested in a Betting Post that this might bring about a General Election, sooner rather than later, pointing out that odds of 3/1 or slightly better were available against a poll taking place during 2017.
0 -
That's BS for starters. Anwar al-Awlaki, a US citizen, was definitely under surveillance.SouthamObserver said:
What Obama has given is a very lawyerly answer, and I suspect it means that no US-resident US citizen was ever specifically named in an application for a warrant at the FISA court.
Non-resident US citizens and US citizens through the various loop holes that are used are surveilled. One loop hole is that there only has to be a 51% chance of a target being foreign to allow blanket surveillance, that picks up a lot of US citizens as false positives. There's also a lot of third party surveillance, and collection of data of US citizens who are not the target but have communications with foreign persons who are.
And bear in mind that scooping up meta-data isn't even considered communications interception under US law, so they can happily record the details of every call made without warrant.
One other interpretation is the White House never ordered it, but there are loads of intelligence agencies who potentially could.
It may be a strictly true statement but it is utterly misleading. US citizens do quite routinely have their communications intercepted.0 -
A country putting their own interests first? Whatever next......I wish our government would do the same.Yorkcity said:Not looking good for Vauxhall workers in the UK in the long term .I am sure the French will be looking to secure their own plants.
Whether Brexit will have an impact either way on there location is hard to say at the moment.0 -
YES. The MP for Edinburgh South. The very talented Ian MurrayYorkcity said:
That is a thought provoking post.Does SLAB have many voices asking to change this stance ?Alistair said:
If SLab was to back independence then, it is fairly self evident to me, that Independence would happen and they would be in prime position to take over from the disintegration of the SNP post independence.SouthamObserver said:
I feel sorry for them. They are reaping what was sown by others over many years. The only thing that will make Labour relevant again in Scotland is independence.
Their Unionism is an amazingly principled stand which is a rarity in this modern, politically cynical world.0 -
Hadn't looked at that - it's on the list. Thanks!Big_G_NorthWales said:
Just make sure the Canadian does the Rockies in daylight - the Rocky Mountaineer is probably your better optionTim_B said:A quick vacation question for any rail buffs out there - in addition to planning a trip to the UK next year, this year I'm pondering something I haven't done since I was a teenager - ride the train.
There are essentially 2 - possibly 3 - options. They're all about 2300-2500 miles
1. The Canadian - Toronto to Vancouver
2. The California Zephyr - Chicago to San Francisco.
3. The Texas Eagle - Chicago to Texas to Los Angeles
The first two have observation dome cars etc, not sure about the Texas Eagle.
Does anyone have experience of any of these? - or suggestions?
I suspect the Canadian might have the most stunning scenery.0 -
Trump and Obama in politicians tell lies shocker ....0
-
Obama may not be "lying" but his nose is getting longer.SouthamObserver said:
Trump accused Obama. Now Obama has stated categorically he never did it. One of them is lying.3GeoffM said:
But is he? Does Eric Holder count as a "White House official"Tim_B said:
Obama is effectively lying: see what his administration did to James Rosen and his parents.If that isn't "surveillance on a US citizen", then nothing is.SouthamObserver said:
"neither Obama or any White House official..."
That still leaves a metric anthill of people who could have signed it and not be covered by this press release.0 -
That was true for several metrics.Theuniondivvie said:
Hasn't Trump lied e.g. the most Electoral College votes since Ronald Reagan stuff?Tim_B said:
Trump is the definitive loud and brash New York deal maker, and is given to hyperbole and mis-statement. But given Obama's long record of outright lying and deceit, (he was even made 'Liar of the Year' by the normally supine Washington Post) I'd go for the proven liar over the blowhard.SouthamObserver said:
Trump accused Obama. Now Obama has stated categorically he never did it. One of them is lying.3GeoffM said:
But is he? Does Eric Holder count as a "White House official"Tim_B said:
Obama is effectively lying: see what his administration did to James Rosen and his parents.If that isn't "surveillance on a US citizen", then nothing is.SouthamObserver said:
"neither Obama or any White House official..."
That still leaves a metric anthill of people who could have signed it and not be covered by this press release.0 -
Yes, but those voices have left or are sidelined - Chisolm, Pia, Lazarowicz & inevitably McLeish have all made noises. Their main problem is that even the the SLab rump has said different things at different times: Dugdale has said in the past that she wouldn't block a 2nd referendum but is now implacably opposed, while her deputy Rowley has previously suggested that they should have an open mind on the subject but has now turned inscrutable. It's also all interlinked with their mess of an approach to Brexit.Yorkcity said:
That is a thought provoking post.Does SLAB have many voices asking to change this stance ?Alistair said:
If SLab was to back independence then, it is fairly self evident to me, that Independence would happen and they would be in prime position to take over from the disintegration of the SNP post independence.SouthamObserver said:
I feel sorry for them. They are reaping what was sown by others over many years. The only thing that will make Labour relevant again in Scotland is independence.
Their Unionism is an amazingly principled stand which is a rarity in this modern, politically cynical world.0 -
Trump can provide the evidence. As US president he has the right and duty to do it.glw said:
That's BS for starters. Anwar al-Awlaki, a US citizen, was definitely under surveillance.SouthamObserver said:
What Obama has given is a very lawyerly answer, and I suspect it means that no US-resident US citizen was ever specifically named in an application for a warrant at the FISA court.
Non-resident US citizens and US citizens through the various loop holes that are used are surveilled. One loop hole is that there only has to be a 51% chance of a target being foreign to allow blanket surveillance, that picks up a lot of US citizens as false positives. There's also a lot of third party surveillance, and collection of data of US citizens who are not the target but have communications with foreign persons who are.
And bear in mind that scooping up meta-data isn't even considered communications interception under US law, so they can happily record the details of every call made without warrant.
One other interpretation is the White House never ordered it, but there are loads of intelligence agencies who potentially could.
It may be a strictly true statement but it is utterly misleading. US citizens do quite routinely have their communications intercepted.
0 -
Toon Army on top at the moment!0
-
Has he really? Thought he was a Union man forever and a day.Roger said:
YES. The MP for Edinburgh South. The very talented Ian MurrayYorkcity said:
That is a thought provoking post.Does SLAB have many voices asking to change this stance ?Alistair said:
If SLab was to back independence then, it is fairly self evident to me, that Independence would happen and they would be in prime position to take over from the disintegration of the SNP post independence.SouthamObserver said:
I feel sorry for them. They are reaping what was sown by others over many years. The only thing that will make Labour relevant again in Scotland is independence.
Their Unionism is an amazingly principled stand which is a rarity in this modern, politically cynical world.0 -
If Obama is not lying Trump is.glw said:
Obama may not be "lying" but his nose is getting longer.SouthamObserver said:
Trump accused Obama. Now Obama has stated categorically he never did it. One of them is lying.3GeoffM said:
But is he? Does Eric Holder count as a "White House official"Tim_B said:
Obama is effectively lying: see what his administration did to James Rosen and his parents.If that isn't "surveillance on a US citizen", then nothing is.SouthamObserver said:
"neither Obama or any White House official..."
That still leaves a metric anthill of people who could have signed it and not be covered by this press release.
0 -
Reporter James Rosen and his parents for example. AG Holder called Rosen a co-conspirator.glw said:
That's BS for starters. Anwar al-Awlaki, a US citizen, was definitely under surveillance.SouthamObserver said:
What Obama has given is a very lawyerly answer, and I suspect it means that no US-resident US citizen was ever specifically named in an application for a warrant at the FISA court.
Non-resident US citizens and US citizens through the various loop holes that are used are surveilled. One loop hole is that there only has to be a 51% chance of a target being foreign to allow blanket surveillance, that picks up a lot of US citizens as false positives. There's also a lot of third party surveillance, and collection of data of US citizens who are not the target but have communications with foreign persons who are.
And bear in mind that scooping up meta-data isn't even considered communications interception under US law, so they can happily record the details of every call made without warrant.
One other interpretation is the White House never ordered it, but there are loads of intelligence agencies who potentially could.
It may be a strictly true statement but it is utterly misleading. US citizens do quite routinely have their communications intercepted.0 -
Is he arguing that 30 minutes after thinking of something you aren't allowed to have moved on to another distinct thought topic?SouthamObserver said:ttps://twitter.com/davidgross_man/status/838022813550329858
Has he never watched Family Guy?
0 -
- or both.SouthamObserver said:
If Obama is not lying Trump is.glw said:
Obama may not be "lying" but his nose is getting longer.SouthamObserver said:
Trump accused Obama. Now Obama has stated categorically he never did it. One of them is lying.3GeoffM said:
But is he? Does Eric Holder count as a "White House official"Tim_B said:
Obama is effectively lying: see what his administration did to James Rosen and his parents.If that isn't "surveillance on a US citizen", then nothing is.SouthamObserver said:
"neither Obama or any White House official..."
That still leaves a metric anthill of people who could have signed it and not be covered by this press release.0 -
There are three or four posters who worship Trump with a fervour unseen since the break up of the Beatles. There's history with young girls and pop bands but I'd love to know what's going on here. TimB? Moniker? GLW?0
-
I no longer see any point in being green on Fillon. Either he withdraws (and he is under enormous pressure to do so), or he staggers on wounded and without support from the key players. Neither route gets him into the Élysée Palace.0
-
What makes you think that?Theuniondivvie said:
Has he really? Thought he was a Union man forever and a day.Roger said:
YES. The MP for Edinburgh South. The very talented Ian MurrayYorkcity said:
That is a thought provoking post.Does SLAB have many voices asking to change this stance ?Alistair said:
If SLab was to back independence then, it is fairly self evident to me, that Independence would happen and they would be in prime position to take over from the disintegration of the SNP post independence.SouthamObserver said:
I feel sorry for them. They are reaping what was sown by others over many years. The only thing that will make Labour relevant again in Scotland is independence.
Their Unionism is an amazingly principled stand which is a rarity in this modern, politically cynical world.
0 -
What Obama is saying in effect that he personally didn't do it, but he can't wave away responsibility for the departments of state, their direction and policies. Surely the buck stops at his desk.SouthamObserver said:If Obama is not lying Trump is.
0 -
-
Do you agree with him ? I supported Scottish Independence in 2014 and said so on here many times .Was dismayed that the full might of Labour at the time including Gordon Brown was so against.Roger said:
YES. The MP for Edinburgh South. The very talented Ian MurrayYorkcity said:
That is a thought provoking post.Does SLAB have many voices asking to change this stance ?Alistair said:
If SLab was to back independence then, it is fairly self evident to me, that Independence would happen and they would be in prime position to take over from the disintegration of the SNP post independence.SouthamObserver said:
I feel sorry for them. They are reaping what was sown by others over many years. The only thing that will make Labour relevant again in Scotland is independence.
Their Unionism is an amazingly principled stand which is a rarity in this modern, politically cynical world.0 -
But he's also a VERY fervent Remainer. A man conflicted I'd guessTheuniondivvie said:
Has he really? Thought he was a Union man forever and a day.Roger said:
YES. The MP for Edinburgh South. The very talented Ian MurrayYorkcity said:
That is a thought provoking post.Does SLAB have many voices asking to change this stance ?Alistair said:
If SLab was to back independence then, it is fairly self evident to me, that Independence would happen and they would be in prime position to take over from the disintegration of the SNP post independence.SouthamObserver said:
I feel sorry for them. They are reaping what was sown by others over many years. The only thing that will make Labour relevant again in Scotland is independence.
Their Unionism is an amazingly principled stand which is a rarity in this modern, politically cynical world.0 -
I don't support Trump, and I said at the time of the election that I'd vote for Hilary.Roger said:There are three or four posters who worship Trump with a fervour unseen since the break up of the Beatles. There's history with young girls and pop bands but I'd love to know what's going on here. TimB? Moniker? GLW?
But I'm not one of those "Trump is a fascist" idiots either.
0 -
glw said:
What Obama is saying in effect that he personally didn't do it, but he can't wave away responsibility for the departments of state, their direction and policies. Surely the buck stops at his desk.SouthamObserver said:If Obama is not lying Trump is.
Trump accused him personally of doing it. One of them is lying.glw said:
What Obama is saying in effect that he personally didn't do it, but he can't wave away responsibility for the departments of state, their direction and policies. Surely the buck stops at his desk.SouthamObserver said:If Obama is not lying Trump is.
0 -
Tim_B is a Republican I think, so it shouldn't be surprising that a Republican would support Donald Trump. Most polls show Trump getting very high approvals from Republicans.Roger said:There are three or four posters who worship Trump with a fervour unseen since the break up of the Beatles. There's history with young girls and pop bands but I'd love to know what's going on here. TimB? Moniker? GLW?
0 -
In what way ? The French part own peugeot which is taking over Vauxhall. Do you think Britain should start buying into car firms again.nunu said:
A country putting their own interests first? Whatever next......I wish our government would do the same.Yorkcity said:Not looking good for Vauxhall workers in the UK in the long term .I am sure the French will be looking to secure their own plants.
Whether Brexit will have an impact either way on there location is hard to say at the moment.0 -
Or neither!Tim_B said:
- or both.SouthamObserver said:
If Obama is not lying Trump is.glw said:
Obama may not be "lying" but his nose is getting longer.SouthamObserver said:
Trump accused Obama. Now Obama has stated categorically he never did it. One of them is lying.3GeoffM said:
But is he? Does Eric Holder count as a "White House official"Tim_B said:
Obama is effectively lying: see what his administration did to James Rosen and his parents.If that isn't "surveillance on a US citizen", then nothing is.SouthamObserver said:
"neither Obama or any White House official..."
That still leaves a metric anthill of people who could have signed it and not be covered by this press release.
Assume that twitters space requirements give us the natural truncation of "someone in the Obama administration" to "Obama" - which is pretty much a universal abbreviation anyway.
Assume that Obama's careful wording and skating around has been lawyer-checked bone deep.
You could easily end up concluding that neither of them are lying and both of them are as right as they need to be to defend their position.0 -
I can’t think of a single PBer who worships Trump, there are many who do not fall into the category of Trump haters, but that’s something quite different.Roger said:There are three or four posters who worship Trump with a fervour unseen since the break up of the Beatles. There's history with young girls and pop bands but I'd love to know what's going on here. TimB? Moniker? GLW?
0 -
A scant 400 votes different in 2015 and there would have been two Tory MPs in Scotland.Alistair said:
No given their low,low base to work with. I find the hagiography of Ruth Davidson rather strange given the series of electoral disaster she presided over before (and during) SLab completely imploded and she picked up the scraps.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Are you predicting net losses for Scot conservatives in MayAlistair said:
Ruth Davidson, along with presiding over the Conservatives worst ever vote share at a general election, is also the only Tory leader in 22 years to have lost seats at Scottish council elections.Philip_Thompson said:
Indeed I suspect that in this year's election there will be a relative swing from SNP to the Tories compared to last time. £10 if you want a bet?Theuniondivvie said:
But surely a second referendum won't happen because 'voters across Scotland will have the chance to send a clear message to the SNP that they do not want a second independence referendum, by voting Scottish Conservative and Unionist on 4 May'?Big_G_NorthWales said:
I expect Scot Conservatives to take seats from the SNP and labour in May. The obsession with another referendum by Nicola will be her downfall as it will be lost
A scant 400 votes different in 2015 and there would be no Tory MPs in Scotland.
0 -
Labour was and is a British political party. Its constitution makes that very clear. If you support independence, then holding an official position inside it is going to be tricky, to say the least. That said, I was very anti-independence in 2014. Now, I can see how it makes sense. Faced with Corbyn guaranteeing permanent Tory rule in Westminster and Brexit, I can see how breaking away looks attractive. Scotland and England are moving further apart. That's not sustainable.Yorkcity said:
Do you agree with him ? I supported Scottish Independence in 2014 and said so on here many times .Was dismayed that the full might of Labour at the time including Gordon Brown was so against.Roger said:
YES. The MP for Edinburgh South. The very talented Ian MurrayYorkcity said:
That is a thought provoking post.Does SLAB have many voices asking to change this stance ?Alistair said:
If SLab was to back independence then, it is fairly self evident to me, that Independence would happen and they would be in prime position to take over from the disintegration of the SNP post independence.SouthamObserver said:
I feel sorry for them. They are reaping what was sown by others over many years. The only thing that will make Labour relevant again in Scotland is independence.
Their Unionism is an amazingly principled stand which is a rarity in this modern, politically cynical world.
0 -
Actually it sounds like they both are to a degree, Trump may well be wrong about Obama being directly responsible, and Obama is washing his hands of anything his underlings do.SouthamObserver said:Trump accused him personally of doing it. One of them is lying.
0 -
Good luck to him then. Hope he works out to his own satisfaction which is the least bad option.Roger said:
But he's also a VERY fervent Remainer. A man conflicted I'd guessTheuniondivvie said:
Has he really? Thought he was a Union man forever and a day.Roger said:
YES. The MP for Edinburgh South. The very talented Ian MurrayYorkcity said:
That is a thought provoking post.Does SLAB have many voices asking to change this stance ?Alistair said:
If SLab was to back independence then, it is fairly self evident to me, that Independence would happen and they would be in prime position to take over from the disintegration of the SNP post independence.SouthamObserver said:
I feel sorry for them. They are reaping what was sown by others over many years. The only thing that will make Labour relevant again in Scotland is independence.
Their Unionism is an amazingly principled stand which is a rarity in this modern, politically cynical world.0 -
Lol, just a phase I'm sure.old_labour said:
What makes you think that?Theuniondivvie said:
Has he really? Thought he was a Union man forever and a day.Roger said:
YES. The MP for Edinburgh South. The very talented Ian MurrayYorkcity said:
That is a thought provoking post.Does SLAB have many voices asking to change this stance ?Alistair said:
If SLab was to back independence then, it is fairly self evident to me, that Independence would happen and they would be in prime position to take over from the disintegration of the SNP post independence.SouthamObserver said:
I feel sorry for them. They are reaping what was sown by others over many years. The only thing that will make Labour relevant again in Scotland is independence.
Their Unionism is an amazingly principled stand which is a rarity in this modern, politically cynical world.0 -
As President, Trump has access to everything. He can't be "wrong". He will know one way or the other.glw said:
Actually it sounds like they both are to a degree, Trump may well be wrong about Obama being directly responsible, and Obama is washing his hands of anything his underlings do.SouthamObserver said:Trump accused him personally of doing it. One of them is lying.
Obama may well be implying that Trump was under surveillance. But that can only have happened legally with approval from a judge, whose decision would be based on evidence of possible collusion with a foreign power.
0 -
Or giving them Nissan-style guarantees?Yorkcity said:
In what way ? The French part own peugeot which is taking over Vauxhall. Do you think Britain should start buying into car firms again.nunu said:
A country putting their own interests first? Whatever next......I wish our government would do the same.Yorkcity said:Not looking good for Vauxhall workers in the UK in the long term .I am sure the French will be looking to secure their own plants.
Whether Brexit will have an impact either way on there location is hard to say at the moment.0 -
2014 Labour may have been in prime position to replace the SNP in an independent Scotland but not anymore.Alistair said:
If SLab was to back independence then, it is fairly self evident to me, that Independence would happen and they would be in prime position to take over from the disintegration of the SNP post independence.SouthamObserver said:
I feel sorry for them. They are reaping what was sown by others over many years. The only thing that will make Labour relevant again in Scotland is independence.
Their Unionism is an amazingly principled stand which is a rarity in this modern, politically cynical world.
Any independent nation needs a party of the left and a party of the right that power oscillates between. When the left runs out of money then the right has to come in to take the tough choices needed. 2014 Scotland may have seen power switch between Labour on the left and the SNP filling a vacuum by moving right. Not anymore. An independent Scotland now would see power move between the SNP on the left and the Scottish Conservatives on the right.
SLAB are dead. No flowers.0 -
I remember your anti independence at the time , we discussed it many times.I thought many Labour supporters (not you ) were against for partisan reasons because they thought they needed the Scottish seats to form a government.I always thought once Scotland got its independence politics there would revert to what they believed rather than the constitution constant debate.SouthamObserver said:
Labour was and is a British political party. Its constitution makes that very clear. If you support independence, then holding an official position inside it is going to be tricky, to say the least. That said, I was very anti-independence in 2014. Now, I can see how it makes sense. Faced with Corbyn guaranteeing permanent Tory rule in Westminster and Brexit, I can see how breaking away looks attractive. Scotland and England are moving further apart. That's not sustainable.Yorkcity said:
Do you agree with him ? I supported Scottish Independence in 2014 and said so on here many times .Was dismayed that the full might of Labour at the time including Gordon Brown was so against.Roger said:
YES. The MP for Edinburgh South. The very talented Ian MurrayYorkcity said:
That is a thought provoking post.Does SLAB have many voices asking to change this stance ?Alistair said:
If SLab was to back independence then, it is fairly self evident to me, that Independence would happen and they would be in prime position to take over from the disintegration of the SNP post independence.SouthamObserver said:
I feel sorry for them. They are reaping what was sown by others over many years. The only thing that will make Labour relevant again in Scotland is independence.
Their Unionism is an amazingly principled stand which is a rarity in this modern, politically cynical world.0 -
Whoever is not against him is a Devout Worshipper.SimonStClare said:
I can’t think of a single PBer who worships Trump, there are many who do not fall into the category of Trump haters, but that’s something quite different.Roger said:There are three or four posters who worship Trump with a fervour unseen since the break up of the Beatles. There's history with young girls and pop bands but I'd love to know what's going on here. TimB? Moniker? GLW?
I would have voted for him on balance just to keep the Supreme Court safe, not for any other strong reason. He was the better of two poor candidates in my opinion.
0 -
So, what is the betting that SBRR will be extended on Wednesday?
Got to be pretty high I reckon...0 -
That's just flat out not true. Meta-data is an obvious example which doesn't require a warrant.SouthamObserver said:
As President, Trump has access to everything. He can't be "wrong". He will know one way or the other.glw said:
Actually it sounds like they both are to a degree, Trump may well be wrong about Obama being directly responsible, and Obama is washing his hands of anything his underlings do.SouthamObserver said:Trump accused him personally of doing it. One of them is lying.
Obama may well be implying that Trump was under surveillance. But that can only have happened legally with approval from a judge, whose decision would be based on evidence of possible collusion with a foreign power.0 -
Labour get round expenses by getting sponsored by Unions, who are paid by tax payers. That's worse that using private money.0
-
You really want to read up about the FISA court, it hardly ever rejects a warrant application, and the US intelligence community has become expert at writing warrants to get what it wants. The shitty stuff the NSA has been doing the last decade or so is compliant with the law, and approved by the court. The idea that the judiciary is a significant bar to the intelligence community doing what it wants is laughable.SouthamObserver said:
As President, Trump has access to everything. He can't be "wrong". He will know one way or the other.glw said:
Actually it sounds like they both are to a degree, Trump may well be wrong about Obama being directly responsible, and Obama is washing his hands of anything his underlings do.SouthamObserver said:Trump accused him personally of doing it. One of them is lying.
Obama may well be implying that Trump was under surveillance. But that can only have happened legally with approval from a judge, whose decision would be based on evidence of possible collusion with a foreign power.
Besides that does it not bother you just a little bit that perhaps the FBI was conducting surveillance on one of the two Presidential candidates mere weeks before the election? Do you think the White House was in the dark, with no heads up from the FBI?
Imagine finding out that MI5 were spying on Miliband's inner circle weeks before the general election, do you really think Cameron saying "noting to do with me personally" would be enough?0 -
I disagree with PR not FPTP it will be more multifaceted than that.Philip_Thompson said:
2014 Labour may have been in prime position to replace the SNP in an independent Scotland but not anymore.Alistair said:
If SLab was to back independence then, it is fairly self evident to me, that Independence would happen and they would be in prime position to take over from the disintegration of the SNP post independence.SouthamObserver said:
I feel sorry for them. They are reaping what was sown by others over many years. The only thing that will make Labour relevant again in Scotland is independence.
Their Unionism is an amazingly principled stand which is a rarity in this modern, politically cynical world.
Any independent nation needs a party of the left and a party of the right that power oscillates between. When the left runs out of money then the right has to come in to take the tough choices needed. 2014 Scotland may have seen power switch between Labour on the left and the SNP filling a vacuum by moving right. Not anymore. An independent Scotland now would see power move between the SNP on the left and the Scottish Conservatives on the right.
SLAB are dead. No flowers.0 -
I consider myself a moderate Republican - I am pro-choice for example. I voted for Trump. I did so because after 8 years of a rigid big government left wing ideologue we needed something different that wasn't Hillary. On the good side he isn't a politician, says what he thinks and does what he said he'd do on the campaign.The_Apocalypse said:
Tim_B is a Republican I think, so it shouldn't be surprising that a Republican would support Donald Trump. Most polls show Trump getting very high approvals from Republicans.Roger said:There are three or four posters who worship Trump with a fervour unseen since the break up of the Beatles. There's history with young girls and pop bands but I'd love to know what's going on here. TimB? Moniker? GLW?
He picks dumb fights he shouldn't that he can't win, can't let anything go without response, and has trodden on his own message far too many times. Couple that with a totally cocked up implementation of the immigration executive order and frequent mis-steps and that's what we have.
While still in office, Obama was asked about Carrier's relocation to Mexico with the loss of 1400 jobs. His reply was the he didn't have a magic wand. Trump makes some phone calls and the deal is done. Ditto with Ford and a couple of others. Was there more to it than Trump's calls? Very probably, but Trump made it happen - at least partially.
Yes, I want to see the country succeed and I'd like to see Trump do so too.
Hardly worshipping Trump with a fervour unseen since the break up of the Beatles.
Wasn't that the group Paul was in before Wings?0 -
Yes, it does bother me. If it happened clearly the reasons why should be made public. Trump can make that happen.glw said:
You really want to read up about the FISA court, it hardly ever rejects a warrant application, and the US intelligence community has become expert at writing warrants to get what it wants. The shitty stuff the NSA has been doing the last decade or so is compliant with the law, and approved by the court. The idea that the judiciary is a significant bar to the intelligence community doing what it wants is laughable.SouthamObserver said:
As President, Trump has access to everything. He can't be "wrong". He will know one way or the other.glw said:
Actually it sounds like they both are to a degree, Trump may well be wrong about Obama being directly responsible, and Obama is washing his hands of anything his underlings do.SouthamObserver said:Trump accused him personally of doing it. One of them is lying.
Obama may well be implying that Trump was under surveillance. But that can only have happened legally with approval from a judge, whose decision would be based on evidence of possible collusion with a foreign power.
Besides that does it not bother you just a little bit that perhaps the FBI was conducting surveillance on one of the two Presidential candidates mere weeks before the election? Do you think the White House was in the dark, with no heads up from the FBI?
Imagine finding out that MI5 were spying on Miliband's inner circle weeks before the general election, do you really think Cameron saying "noting to do with me personally" would be enough?
The FBI went very publiccon Hillary before the election. Why did it not do the same for Trump?
0 -
you can't worship a politician. It's like loving hemorrhoids! But Trump is the enema that politics needs. I almost worship Mrs May. She has amazed me. Not put a foot wrong. The speech in Scotland was a delight.Roger said:There are three or four posters who worship Trump with a fervour unseen since the break up of the Beatles. There's history with young girls and pop bands but I'd love to know what's going on here. TimB? Moniker? GLW?
0 -
But as you have been reminding us , Corbyn is on his way out anyway.He is ,therefore, not going to be in a position to 'guarantee permanent Tory rule in Westminster'.SouthamObserver said:
Labour was and is a British political party. Its constitution makes that very clear. If you support independence, then holding an official position inside it is going to be tricky, to say the least. That said, I was very anti-independence in 2014. Now, I can see how it makes sense. Faced with Corbyn guaranteeing permanent Tory rule in Westminster and Brexit, I can see how breaking away looks attractive. Scotland and England are moving further apart. That's not sustainable.Yorkcity said:
Do you agree with him ? I supported Scottish Independence in 2014 and said so on here many times .Was dismayed that the full might of Labour at the time including Gordon Brown was so against.Roger said:
YES. The MP for Edinburgh South. The very talented Ian MurrayYorkcity said:
That is a thought provoking post.Does SLAB have many voices asking to change this stance ?Alistair said:
If SLab was to back independence then, it is fairly self evident to me, that Independence would happen and they would be in prime position to take over from the disintegration of the SNP post independence.SouthamObserver said:
I feel sorry for them. They are reaping what was sown by others over many years. The only thing that will make Labour relevant again in Scotland is independence.
Their Unionism is an amazingly principled stand which is a rarity in this modern, politically cynical world.0 -
Article 2 in the case 'Labour haven't a hope of winning the next election' - The Labour Party....justin124 said:
But as you have been reminding us , Corbyn is on his way out anyway.He is ,therefore, not going to be in a position to 'guarantee permanent Tory rule in Westminster'.SouthamObserver said:
Labour was and is a British political party. Its constitution makes that very clear. If you support independence, then holding an official position inside it is going to be tricky, to say the least. That said, I was very anti-independence in 2014. Now, I can see how it makes sense. Faced with Corbyn guaranteeing permanent Tory rule in Westminster and Brexit, I can see how breaking away looks attractive. Scotland and England are moving further apart. That's not sustainable.Yorkcity said:
Do you agree with him ? I supported Scottish Independence in 2014 and said so on here many times .Was dismayed that the full might of Labour at the time including Gordon Brown was so against.Roger said:
YES. The MP for Edinburgh South. The very talented Ian MurrayYorkcity said:
That is a thought provoking post.Does SLAB have many voices asking to change this stance ?Alistair said:
If SLab was to back independence then, it is fairly self evident to me, that Independence would happen and they would be in prime position to take over from the disintegration of the SNP post independence.SouthamObserver said:
I feel sorry for them. They are reaping what was sown by others over many years. The only thing that will make Labour relevant again in Scotland is independence.
Their Unionism is an amazingly principled stand which is a rarity in this modern, politically cynical world.0 -
Labour won't win an election under any leader until 2025 at the earliest.justin124 said:
But as you have been reminding us , Corbyn is on his way out anyway.He is ,therefore, not going to be in a position to 'guarantee permanent Tory rule in Westminster'.SouthamObserver said:
Labour was and is a British political party. Its constitution makes that very clear. If you support independence, then holding an official position inside it is going to be tricky, to say the least. That said, I was very anti-independence in 2014. Now, I can see how it makes sense. Faced with Corbyn guaranteeing permanent Tory rule in Westminster and Brexit, I can see how breaking away looks attractive. Scotland and England are moving further apart. That's not sustainable.Yorkcity said:
Do you agree with him ? I supported Scottish Independence in 2014 and said so on here many times .Was dismayed that the full might of Labour at the time including Gordon Brown was so against.Roger said:
YES. The MP for Edinburgh South. The very talented Ian MurrayYorkcity said:
That is a thought provoking post.Does SLAB have many voices asking to change this stance ?Alistair said:
If SLab was to back independence then, it is fairly self evident to me, that Independence would happen and they would be in prime position to take over from the disintegration of the SNP post independence.SouthamObserver said:
I feel sorry for them. They are reaping what was sown by others over many years. The only thing that will make Labour relevant again in Scotland is independence.
Their Unionism is an amazingly principled stand which is a rarity in this modern, politically cynical world.
0 -
Another fine mess from Cameron and Osborne for Theresa to clean up...0
-
I don't know if this has been posted (being playing Zelda: Breath of the Wild), but this shows the insane fragmentation of Dutch politics:
https://twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/8380986056092057610 -
Are you serious! Perhaps you haven't been on that much. There are some who talk about nothing else for perhaps 20 hours a day. It isn't chat about a politician it is akin to the Branch Davidians. This is a cult and I haven't ever seen anything like it before. Fortunately we've missed Hale BoppSimonStClare said:
I can’t think of a single PBer who worships Trump, there are many who do not fall into the category of Trump haters, but that’s something quite different.Roger said:There are three or four posters who worship Trump with a fervour unseen since the break up of the Beatles. There's history with young girls and pop bands but I'd love to know what's going on here. TimB? Moniker? GLW?
0 -
Aren't you concerned about his protectionism? The world - not just America - will become a lot poorer if everyone starts raising trade barriers.Dixie said:
you can't worship a politician. It's like loving hemorrhoids! But Trump is the enema that politics needs. I almost worship Mrs May. She has amazed me. Not put a foot wrong. The speech in Scotland was a delight.Roger said:There are three or four posters who worship Trump with a fervour unseen since the break up of the Beatles. There's history with young girls and pop bands but I'd love to know what's going on here. TimB? Moniker? GLW?
0 -
That represents a modification of your previous comment. However, given that Labour's current polling range appears to be 25% - 30% I believe that it is entirely feasible that under a new leader Labour could poll circa 35% in 2020 . That could well be enough to ensure a Hung Parliament.SouthamObserver said:
Labour won't win an election under any leader until 2025 at the earliest.justin124 said:
But as you have been reminding us , Corbyn is on his way out anyway.He is ,therefore, not going to be in a position to 'guarantee permanent Tory rule in Westminster'.SouthamObserver said:
Labour was and is a British political party. Its constitution makes that very clear. If you support independence, then holding an official position inside it is going to be tricky, to say the least. That said, I was very anti-independence in 2014. Now, I can see how it makes sense. Faced with Corbyn guaranteeing permanent Tory rule in Westminster and Brexit, I can see how breaking away looks attractive. Scotland and England are moving further apart. That's not sustainable.Yorkcity said:
Do you agree with him ? I supported Scottish Independence in 2014 and said so on here many times .Was dismayed that the full might of Labour at the time including Gordon Brown was so against.Roger said:
YES. The MP for Edinburgh South. The very talented Ian MurrayYorkcity said:
That is a thought provoking post.Does SLAB have many voices asking to change this stance ?Alistair said:
If SLab was to back independence then, it is fairly self evident to me, that Independence would happen and they would be in prime position to take over from the disintegration of the SNP post independence.SouthamObserver said:
I feel sorry for them. They are reaping what was sown by others over many years. The only thing that will make Labour relevant again in Scotland is independence.
Their Unionism is an amazingly principled stand which is a rarity in this modern, politically cynical world.0 -
Good grief, a chart where the y axis begins at 0%? That'll never catch on here....rcs1000 said:I don't know if this has been posted (being playing Zelda: Breath of the Wild), but this shows the insane fragmentation of Dutch politics:
https://twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/8380986056092057610 -
That particular investigation originally started with a public complaint that Clinton wasn't complying with the Federal Records Act, and then an email leak fanned the flames. So knowledge of the ensuing investigations was in the public domain, and the FBI didn't have much choice but to keep Congress in the loop when they found tens of thousands more relevant emails.SouthamObserver said:Yes, it does bother me. If it happened clearly the reasons why should be made public. Trump can make that happen.
The FBI went very publiccon Hillary before the election. Why did it not do the same for Trump?
What Trump is saying is that Obama — probably the FBI in reality — was secretlty tapping calls amongst his circle at more or less the same time as the Weiner emails were discovered. Could the FBI have announced that? Well maybe, but you obviously can't announce you are secretly tapping calls during an investigation.
0 -
Other posters seem monomaniacal about inhabitants of a certain Northern town. And Brexiteers.Roger said:
Are you serious! Perhaps you haven't been on that much. There are some who talk about nothing else for perhaps 20 hours a day. It isn't chat about a politician it is akin to the Branch Davidians. This is a cult and I haven't ever seen anything like it before. Fortunately we've missed Hale BoppSimonStClare said:
I can’t think of a single PBer who worships Trump, there are many who do not fall into the category of Trump haters, but that’s something quite different.Roger said:There are three or four posters who worship Trump with a fervour unseen since the break up of the Beatles. There's history with young girls and pop bands but I'd love to know what's going on here. TimB? Moniker? GLW?
Basically Roge, those in Riviere glass houses should stop spraying stone chippings around....0
This discussion has been closed.