politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Are we seeing the Tony Blair effect on BREXIT? Those saying LE

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AlastairMeeks said:

Floater said:

AlastairMeeks said:

isam said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Charles said:

AlastairMeeks said:

It looks like random variation to me. Very few are changing their minds either way, which is itself striking.

Proposals for change often become more popular once passed. This one hasn't.

I think that is because, usually, the keaders of the group that didn't get their preferred option move on or accept the result.

Here many haven't - they've fought tooth and nail to frustrate the decision of the people. In itself this has legitimized people not changing their mind

Ah, it's Remainers' fault that Leavers have been unpersuasive. I should have guessed.

Why do leavers have to keep persuade all over again? They won, they persuaded the majority, it is over.

The only people interested in keeping the argument alive are those who cant handle the fact they lost. Funnily enough, they are the people who had it their own way for the last generation, while dismissing the concerns of anyone not in their clique.

Remainers/Remoaners/Refusers are wearing the clothes of the people they used to mock

I thought that Leavers wanted Britain to unite around Brexit to make a success of it. To do that they need to show Remainers that there is something to unite behind. So far, they have proven to be malignantly poor winners, reconfirming all of Remainers' suspicions about them. Yet somehow this is Remainers' fault.

Hmmm can you you think of any malignant remainers.

Perhaps someone who threw a huge hissy fit when things didn't go their way?

Leave won. It is they who need to unite the country behind their vision. So far they have conspicuously failed.

What is it you expect us to do? We're not exactly quiet about good economic news, and about potential benefits like trade deals, but just get 'Brexit hasn't happened yet' and such in return.

AlastairMeeks said:

Floater said:

AlastairMeeks said:

isam said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Charles said:

AlastairMeeks said:

It looks like random variation to me. Very few are changing their minds either way, which is itself striking.

Proposals for change often become more popular once passed. This one hasn't.

I think that is because, usually, the keaders of the group that didn't get their preferred option move on or accept the result.

Here many haven't - they've fought tooth and nail to frustrate the decision of the people. In itself this has legitimized people not changing their mind

Ah, it's Remainers' fault that Leavers have been unpersuasive. I should have guessed.

Why do leavers have to keep persuade all over again? They won, they persuaded the majority, it is over.

The only people interested in keeping the argument alive are those who cant handle the fact they lost. Funnily enough, they are the people who had it their own way for the last generation, while dismissing the concerns of anyone not in their clique.

Remainers/Remoaners/Refusers are wearing the clothes of the people they used to mock

I thought that Leavers wanted Britain to unite around Brexit to make a success of it. To do that they need to show Remainers that there is something to unite behind. So far, they have proven to be malignantly poor winners, reconfirming all of Remainers' suspicions about them. Yet somehow this is Remainers' fault.

Hmmm can you you think of any malignant remainers.

Perhaps someone who threw a huge hissy fit when things didn't go their way?

Leave won. It is they who need to unite the country behind their vision. So far they have conspicuously failed.

I see no reason why Brexit shouldn't remain as divisive for decades as joining was. However good or bad it turns out to be, we can never know the counterfactual.

My belief is that it was the wrong decision, but it needs to be followed through. We have had the flatus and we expect the turd. Some will roll the turd in glitter* and some will throw it at the fan.

*or sit on it as part of performance art:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/feb/26/french-artist-living-inside-a-rock-surrounded-by-excrement-i-feel-completely-at-ease

AlastairMeeks said:

Charles said:

AlastairMeeks said:

It looks like random variation to me. Very few are changing their minds either way, which is itself striking.

Proposals for change often become more popular once passed. This one hasn't.

I think that is because, usually, the keaders of the group that didn't get their preferred option move on or accept the result.

Here many haven't - they've fought tooth and nail to frustrate the decision of the people. In itself this has legitimized people not changing their mind

Ah, it's Remainers' fault that Leavers have been unpersuasive. I should have guessed.

No. I doubt that Tim Farron, for example, could have been persuaded one way or another. Both because of the nature of man he is, and because it's in his party's interest to carve out a distinct niche. It's nothing to do with the Leaver's persuasive ability.

Turns out it is the ITV 6 nations coverage that has the spectacularly annoying "purrrrr-joh" adverts

foxinsoxuk said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Floater said:

AlastairMeeks said:

isam said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Charles said:

AlastairMeeks said:

It looks like random variation to me. Very few are changing their minds either way, which is itself striking.

Proposals for change often become more popular once passed. This one hasn't.

I think that is because, usually, the keaders of the group that didn't get their preferred option move on or accept the result.

Here many haven't - they've fought tooth and nail to frustrate the decision of the people. In itself this has legitimized people not changing their mind

Ah, it's Remainers' fault that Leavers have been unpersuasive. I should have guessed.

Why do leavers have to keep persuade all over again? They won, they persuaded the majority, it is over.

The only people interested in keeping the argument alive are those who cant handle the fact they lost. Funnily enough, they are the people who had it their own way for the last generation, while dismissing the concerns of anyone not in their clique.

Remainers/Remoaners/Refusers are wearing the clothes of the people they used to mock

I thought that Leavers wanted Britain to unite around Brexit to make a success of it. To do that they need to show Remainers that there is something to unite behind. So far, they have proven to be malignantly poor winners, reconfirming all of Remainers' suspicions about them. Yet somehow this is Remainers' fault.

Hmmm can you you think of any malignant remainers.

Perhaps someone who threw a huge hissy fit when things didn't go their way?

Leave won. It is they who need to unite the country behind their vision. So far they have conspicuously failed.

I see no reason why Brexit shouldn't remain as divisive for decades as joining was. However good or bad it turns out to be, we can never know the counterfactual.

My belief is that it was the wrong decision, but it needs to be followed through. We have had the flatus and we expect the turd. Some will roll the turd in glitter* and some will throw it at the fan.

*or sit on it as part of performance art:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/feb/26/french-artist-living-inside-a-rock-surrounded-by-excrement-i-feel-completely-at-ease

I'm here too. People have said that the matter isn't 'settled for eternity'. But I feel it is certainly settled for the next 30-40 years at least. I think we can revisit the question in say 2050.

Luckyguy1983 said:

There's really not much I can say to someone who ignores the evidence of their own eyes and ears....But do go ahead and continue to disbelieve your own eyes...

I am not ignoring nor disbelieving the evidence of my own eyes.

Luckyguy1983 said:

We all acknowledge, the report is of a genuine event.

Yes, we do.

Luckyguy1983 said:

...acknowledging CNN green-screened this ludicrous footage...

So you state that the event is genuine but CNN faked the footage of the event.

Luckyguy1983 said:

For you, on the other hand, acknowledging that CNN green-screened this ludicrous footage would shatter your world view. So you pull together a daft 'rebuttal' to try to convince everyone (even yourself?) that it didn't happen.

Unless you are telepathic, you have no idea of my motives in rebutting you.

Luckyguy1983 said:

The camera is filming the reporter from an elevated and distant position. The reporter himself is again, elevated and distant from the surface of the water. The gull should therefore be little more than a pin-prick.

We will have to continue to disagree about the laws of perspective.

Luckyguy1983 said:

makes it very clear this is a composite.

My initail rebuttal to Plato (h ttp://politicalbetting.vanillaforums.com/discussion/comment/1450938/#Comment_1450938 ) was based on the lower-quality video (h ttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wn5pIkEHPf0 ) and said that I couldn't rule out aliasing but did note the lack of spill. The higher-quality video (h ttp://edition.cnn.com/videos/world/2014/03/07/exp-nr-vo-watson-russia-ukraine-ships.cnn ) now makes me think there isn't any aliaising either. Adding the pan visible in the higher-quality video just reinforces the point. So no, I don't think this is a composite.

[Edit: separate the h from the ttp]

Beverley_C said:

JosiasJessop said:

BTW, my profile piccie is of me eating breakfast on the bowsprit of the Jeanie Johnston.

Good for you. Was there no room down below or was the view spectacular?

I was on watch, so I had to eat where I was.

There was actually a weird but beautiful phenomena at night: the water disturbed by the bow would glow a magnificent electric blue colour. I've never seen anything like it before, and as it turned out I'm no sailor, I doubt I will again.

JosiasJessop said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

viewcode said:

@Luckyguy1983

I can see this is going to run and run. Firstly, I refer you to my rebuttal here (h ttp://politicalbetting.vanillaforums.com/discussion/comment/1450938/#Comment_1450938 ) which was based on Plato's original posting of this: h ttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wn5pIkEHPf0 . However I have now been informed of a better quality version (h ttp://edition.cnn.com/videos/world/2014/03/07/exp-nr-vo-watson-russia-ukraine-ships.cnn ), which should put things to bed about the lack of fakery.

There's really not much I can say to someone who ignores the evidence of their own eyes and ears. We all acknowledge, the report is of a genuine event. Therefore, contrary to your implication, I have no dog in this fight. I am simply sceptical enough about the honesty of large media organisations to believe that it's quite possible that CNN would attempt to manipulate a report, for whatever reason, if they thought they could get away with it.

For you, on the other hand, acknowledging that CNN green-screened this ludicrous footage would shatter your world view. So you pull together a daft 'rebuttal' to try to convince everyone (even yourself?) that it didn't happen.

The camera is filming the reporter from an elevated and distant position. The reporter himself is again, elevated and distant from the surface of the water. The gull should therefore be little more than a pin-prick. The fact that it's as large as life in the film makes it very clear this is a composite. But do go ahead and continue to disbelieve your own eyes because CNN would never lie to you.

To say the reporter is in an elevated and distant position, you would need to know the type of boat he is on. Do you?

"The gull should therefore be little more than a pin-prick."

I'd love to see the maths that makes you think that. But to do that, we'd need to identify the type of boat he's on.

Because the reporter is tiny and filmed from above??

AlastairMeeks said:

Charles said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Charles said:

AlastairMeeks said:

It looks like random variation to me. Very few are changing their minds either way, which is itself striking.

Proposals for change often become more popular once passed. This one hasn't.

I think that is because, usually, the keaders of the group that didn't get their preferred option move on or accept the result.

Here many haven't - they've fought tooth and nail to frustrate the decision of the people. In itself this has legitimized people not changing their mind

Ah, it's Remainers' fault that Leavers have been unpersuasive. I should have guessed.

No. I doubt that Tim Farron, for example, could have been persuaded one way or another. Both because of the nature of man he is, and because it's in his party's interest to carve out a distinct niche. It's nothing to do with the Leaver's persuasive ability.

Do you think that accounts for all the unpersuaded 45% in this poll?

Vote Leave, evade responsibility.

No, but I suspect that many in politics and media have a similar mindset making it difficult to communicate. You just have to look at the querulous negativity of Faisal Islam for example. With a diet of that on the news I'm not surprised many are changing their views.

But I don't have any desire to blame in the way you seem to deal the need to do

FF43 said:

Beverley_C said:

kjh said:

I can't believe I'm getting into this but 20 - 25 knts is upper end of Force 5 mainly Force 6. The waves are clearly typical of something under Force 3. Not a white horse insight. Crests begin to break at the upper end of Force 3. The Destroyer obviously has a speed producing a relative wind speed for the flag.

Good point. Flags and windsocks normally go horizontal at 20-25. Force 4 is up to 15 and that normally produces small waves.

In any case, more than enough to blow hair around unless he has glued it with a can of Harmony No.5 Extra Hold

Maybe he did? He wants to look good for the telly!

His hair did blow around in the original shot, linked to by JJ. The boat that he is on seems more or less stationary, as we initially see the Destroyer from the port quarter, but within the couple of minutes the reporter is more or less astern. The destroyer appears to be doing about 10 knots, so the reporters boat cannot be doing more than a couple.

On the panning shot of the destroyer passing we see what apear to be a rail of a cockpit canopy, so the photographer appears to be on a flying bridge, hence looking down on the reporter. In order to get both Destroyer and reporter in focus he needs to use wideangle, which does cause distortions of image size. This has the advantage also of reducing camera shake. The depth of focus is better but objects behind the reporter (such as the gull) will be small as a result.

Flags on the shore may well be fluttering more than on the Bosphorus, it is quite a narrow seaway.

"Are we seeing the Tony Blair effect on BREXIT? Those saying LEAVE vote “wrong” now same as those saying “right”"

Seems highly unlikely at this stage. Leaving aside the fact that Blair is a woefully inappropriate, very unpopular and mistrusted messenger for the Continuity Remain campaign, I think we'd need to see a rather more radical shift in the numbers to be convincing than that in the latest YouGov, which could easily be the product of noise.

Meanwhile, in other news from the same poll:

Voting intention for pensioners:

Con 61%, Ukip 16%, Lab 12%
Best PM: May 75%, Corbyn 4% (DK 21%)

The Tories are above 50% with all voters over 50 - i.e. very nearly half of the entire electorate, and the half more likely to vote at that - and also consistently score around 50% for the whole of southern England outside London, which returns about 200 MPs. This is a level of dominance equal to or greater than that of the SNP in Scotland over about 30% of the UK geographically, and about 50% of the electorate demographically.

Labour, meanwhile, is only ahead with the 18-24 age group: the smallest cohort and the one least likely to vote. And there is no reason to suppose that their actual position in the country mightn't be even worse than indicated by the polls. In terms of actual votes cast, the Tories have outperformed the pre-election polls, IIRC, at every GE of modern times except for 1983.
The Conservatives outperformed their current polling position in both Copeland and Stoke Central. Also, ex-Copeland MP Jamie Reed has recently stated that he believes Labour's actual voting intention share to be in the low 20s.

viewcode said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

There's really not much I can say to someone who ignores the evidence of their own eyes and ears....But do go ahead and continue to disbelieve your own eyes...

I am not ignoring nor disbelieving the evidence of my own eyes.

Luckyguy1983 said:

We all acknowledge, the report is of a genuine event.

Yes, we do.

Luckyguy1983 said:

...acknowledging CNN green-screened this ludicrous footage...

So you state that the event is genuine but CNN faked the footage of the event.

Luckyguy1983 said:

For you, on the other hand, acknowledging that CNN green-screened this ludicrous footage would shatter your world view. So you pull together a daft 'rebuttal' to try to convince everyone (even yourself?) that it didn't happen.

Unless you are telepathic, you have no idea of my motives in rebutting you.

Luckyguy1983 said:

The camera is filming the reporter from an elevated and distant position. The reporter himself is again, elevated and distant from the surface of the water. The gull should therefore be little more than a pin-prick.

We will have to continue to disagree about the laws of perspective.

Luckyguy1983 said:

makes it very clear this is a composite.

My initail rebuttal to Plato (h ttp://politicalbetting.vanillaforums.com/discussion/comment/1450938/#Comment_1450938 ) was based on the lower-quality video (h ttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wn5pIkEHPf0 ) and said that I couldn't rule out aliasing but did note the lack of spill. The higher-quality video (h ttp://edition.cnn.com/videos/world/2014/03/07/exp-nr-vo-watson-russia-ukraine-ships.cnn ) now makes me think there isn't any aliaising either. Adding the pan visible in the higher-quality video just reinforces the point. So no, I don't think this is a composite.

[Edit: separate the h from the ttp]

You shouldn't be taking this seriously. There isn't any doubt that the footage is genuine. If anyone is interested in the technicalities of why it is I can give it to them.

Beverley_C said:

JosiasJessop said:

Beverley_C said:

JosiasJessop said:

BTW, my profile piccie is of me eating breakfast on the bowsprit of the Jeanie Johnston.

Good for you. Was there no room down below or was the view spectacular?

I was on watch, so I had to eat where I was.

There was actually a weird but beautiful phenomena at night: the water disturbed by the bow would glow a magnificent electric blue colour. I've never seen anything like it before, and as it turned out I'm no sailor, I doubt I will again.

It could have been wake phosphorescence. I find the sea can be full of magic.

(Snip)

Yep, that looks like it, at least from my memory. Except it was on the water breaking at the bow. A heavenly effect.

Less heavenly was the line of yellow puddles along the bulwarks the morning after a heavy storm.

dr_spyn said:

Corbyn fouls up in front of SLAB. Well done our SNPs. He has a gift, a unique gift.

Are you suggesting someone should follow him with a pooper scooper?

FF43 said:

Essexit said:

What is it you expect us to do? We're not exactly quiet about good economic news, and about potential benefits like trade deals, but just get 'Brexit hasn't happened yet' and such in return.

Personally I find "Suck it up, losers, it's over" to be - genuinely - one of the more persuasive Leave arguments. The British public had its say and decided narrowly but entirely legitimately to leave the EU.

The only issue for me, and maybe this is irrelevant anyway, is that having worked out Brexit is going to be a big mistake, I am not seeing any reason to adjust my assessment now.

Incidentally the trade deal thing is a negative, not a positive, for Brexit. We will lose our current third party trade deals and won't make up their collective loss with anything equivalent in the short to medium term, and probably not in the long term either.

I agree. The fact is that leave won, and no amount of arguing is going to alter that.

That some leavers are still fighting the battle long after they have gained the field is interesting. I wonder how many of them would have been much more comfortable with a narrow remain victory so they could have carried on in their comfort zone of complaining without having to take any responsibility?

GIN1138 said:

TOPPING said:

isam said:

TOPPING said:

isam said:

So boring, who cares?

Its over!

Not what Nigel said in 1975. Or 1993. Or...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKO_JRbcC04

Sorry I can't be bothered to watch embedded videos which the poster thinks makes a droll point.

You'll have to actually reply to me.

Watch it anyway - You can't beat a bit of Roy!

Exactly Gin,. most enjoyable. Topping is just being a curmudgeon

OllyT said:

Charles said:

AlastairMeeks said:

It looks like random variation to me. Very few are changing their minds either way, which is itself striking.

Proposals for change often become more popular once passed. This one hasn't.

I think that is because, usually, the keaders of the group that didn't get their preferred option move on or accept the result.

Here many haven't - they've fought tooth and nail to frustrate the decision of the people. In itself this has legitimized people not changing their mind

Leavers would have continued to fight tooth and nail against the EU if they had lost? Would UKIP, the Tory right or the Mail and Express have have accepted the "will of the people" if we had voted 52-48 to Remain? Fat chance, the hypocrisy is breathtaking.

We have taken a momentous decision, we are bitterly divided and in my experience views are becoming more entrenched. There is no sign of the nation uniting behind Brexit and we haven't even pressed the start button yet.

There is a difference between trying to overturn the result through process tricks and continuing to campaign for what you believe in.

Sean_F said:

another_richard said:

Sean_F said:

AlastairMeeks said:

isam said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Charles said:

AlastairMeeks said:

It looks like random variation to me. Very few are changing their minds either way, which is itself striking.

Proposals for change often become more popular once passed. This one hasn't.

I think that is because, usually, the keaders of the group that didn't get their preferred option move on or accept the result.

Here many haven't - they've fought tooth and nail to frustrate the decision of the people. In itself this has legitimized people not changing their mind

Ah, it's Remainers' fault that Leavers have been unpersuasive. I should have guessed.

Why do leavers have to keep persuade all over again? They won, they persuaded the majority, it is over.

The only people interested in keeping the argument alive are those who cant handle the fact they lost. Funnily enough, they are the people who had it their own way for the last generation, while dismissing the concerns of anyone not in their clique.

Remainers/Remoaners/Refusers are wearing the clothes of the people they used to mock

I thought that Leavers wanted Britain to unite around Brexit to make a success of it. To do that they need to show Remainers...

I think it's down to electoral geography. Centre-right England and Wales, based in rural areas, medium-sized towns, and smaller cities, has united very swiftly in favour of Brexit, and with nearly 60% of the vote in England and Wales, feels little need to reach out beyond.

Whether they feel the need to reach out or not is rather moot when some Remainers are so open about how much they hate Leavers.

The likes of Matthew Parris and Gina Miller have done Leavers a great favour by revealing their own bigotry.

The Tories (all but a dozen or so) have adopted Brexit with enthusiasm, including many who voted Remain. Many Tory remainers intensely disliked the EU, but were worried about the consequences of a Leave vote. Many are now pretty relaxed about the outcome. Then there are the UKIP voters who are happy with the outcome. The groups who are most angry about Brexit (students, Scottish and Irish nationalists, university workers, people working in the arts, voters in Inner London, left wing celebrities) are groups that centre-right voters are not greatly sympathetic too.

Bang on. There is little in a Tory government that would ever please these groups. Even when democratic choice is against them, the whiners keep on whining...

viewcode said:

Roger said:

You shouldn't be taking this seriously. There isn't any doubt that the footage is genuine. If anyone is interested in the technicalities of why it is I can give it to them.

I am genuinely interested in the technicalities, so if you have a few moments. It's probably best if you do that by messaging me. To do that, go to my profile and press the message button

So am I, if only to check if my assumptions about what's happening are valid.

England players literally asking the rules of Rugby...

foxinsoxuk said:

FF43 said:

Essexit said:

What is it you expect us to do? We're not exactly quiet about good economic news, and about potential benefits like trade deals, but just get 'Brexit hasn't happened yet' and such in return.

Personally I find "Suck it up, losers, it's over" to be - genuinely - one of the more persuasive Leave arguments. The British public had its say and decided narrowly but entirely legitimately to leave the EU.

The only issue for me, and maybe this is irrelevant anyway, is that having worked out Brexit is going to be a big mistake, I am not seeing any reason to adjust my assessment now.

Incidentally the trade deal thing is a negative, not a positive, for Brexit. We will lose our current third party trade deals and won't make up their collective loss with anything equivalent in the short to medium term, and probably not in the long term either.

The economic effects at the moment are anticipatory market moves, so as often with markets, not really evidence of anything substantive, and mostly secondary to the devaluation. We will have to see what happens next, but while there is a lot of inertia in trade no division of a trading block ever results in more trade between the breaking parties. I expect the decline in trade with the EU will become more apparent in time, but generally things are never either as good or as bad as they seem. There is always overreaction.

I agree with this. The immediate armageddon predictions were overblown, but I think the current insouciance is an overcorrection to the overreaction. Brexit will have an economic effect that will kick in over the next couple of years. There are too many businesses delaying or diverting investment for that not to happen. I don't think Brexit will be a disaster. In some ways it would be better if it were a clear disaster in the making. In that case I am sure we would revisit the decision regardless of the vote.

What I expect Brexit to be is a massive decade or more long political and economic distraction that won't solve a single real problem that we have. It will make several other real problems we do have, worse and more difficult to solve. In medical terms Brexit is a chronic condition like diabetes rather than an acute condition like a heart attack. The thing about chronic conditions is that you can live with them, although you shouldn't really want to.

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Listening to Corbyn saying today that labour are the party of the miners, the Upper Clyde Shipworkers and the Mill workers and addressing everyone as comrades sums up just how much he and labour have become irrelevant. Sad really

Exactly there are none of them left, he is living in the past.

Floater said:

peter_from_putney said:

Pretty much within the margin of error surely? AKA much ado about nothing.

But, but what are the Lib Dems for if not to save us from ourselves

This must be at least the fifth or sixth such thread from OGM in a similar vein. He seems determined to be able to demonstrate that Leavers should admit they made a terrible mistake last June, so far without much discernible success.

I think residents of copeland will be able to hear Eddie Jones half time screamathon after that first half from england!

https://twitter.com/benatipsosmori/status/835878967676661761

Posh lads losing at half time.

You'd never catch an England rugby league side losing to Italy.

Are the Labour shadow cabinet playing as the england rugby team today for a bet?

malcolmg said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Listening to Corbyn saying today that labour are the party of the miners, the Upper Clyde Shipworkers and the Mill workers and addressing everyone as comrades sums up just how much he and labour have become irrelevant. Sad really

Exactly there are none of them left, he is living in the past.

That kind of talk was outdated in the 70's, there is a very good Steptoe and Son ep where Harold fails to be a local candidate for that reason.

malcolmg said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Listening to Corbyn saying today that labour are the party of the miners, the Upper Clyde Shipworkers and the Mill workers and addressing everyone as comrades sums up just how much he and labour have become irrelevant. Sad really

Exactly there are none of them left, he is living in the past.

What options did he have? 'We are the party of the latte sippers, hand wringers and virtue signallers'?

I think we need an independent judge led inquiry into the quality of education at these second rate private schools, like millfield and Wellington, that have produced all these england forwards who don't know the rules of the game they play for a living.

As with Scotland, it seems the happy medium has been found

We are leaving the EU, and leavers have handed the control of our departure to Remainers

Scotland is staying in the UK, and we have let Leavers look after things up there

The extremes on both sides are moaning, but most people are ok with it

This has to be the worst performance against a side from Rome since The Battle of Zama.

Roger said:

Very good news. The tide seems to be turning. Not surprising really. Those who wanted change by definition are the ones who voted 'Leave' and so far nothing has changed. What's more if nothing changes for the better-and lets be honest it's not likely too-they'll be on your tails like a pack of hyenas.

The sh*t is slowly beginning to hit the fan. Brexit (if it happens) will be painful and tortuous and all for what? To essentially limit the number of foreigners and darkies coming in? Massive price to pay to the darkies out I say.

murali_s said:

Roger said:

Very good news. The tide seems to be turning. Not surprising really. Those who wanted change by definition are the ones who voted 'Leave' and so far nothing has changed. What's more if nothing changes for the better-and lets be honest it's not likely too-they'll be on your tails like a pack of hyenas.

The sh*t is slowly beginning to hit the fan. Brexit (if it happens) will be painful and tortuous and all for what? To essentially limit the number of foreigners and darkies coming in? Massive price to pay to the darkies out I say.

Are you stupid or just trying to smear people?

Just back from a walk with the dog.

Spotted near Colchester hospital a very dirty white van with the following comment smeared in the grime......

Cleaned by the NHS

Made me laugh anyway.

foxinsoxuk said:

murali_s said:

Roger said:

Very good news. The tide seems to be turning. Not surprising really. Those who wanted change by definition are the ones who voted 'Leave' and so far nothing has changed. What's more if nothing changes for the better-and lets be honest it's not likely too-they'll be on your tails like a pack of hyenas.

The sh*t is slowly beginning to hit the fan. Brexit (if it happens) will be painful and tortuous and all for what? To essentially limit the number of foreigners and darkies coming in? Massive price to pay to the darkies out I say.

As non EU immigrants will predominate in the future, I anticipate that post Brexit Britain will be browner than otherwise. Those future old peoples homes will be staffed by Filipinos, South Africans and Indians rather than Poles and Portuguese.

Yuk! Can we reverse Brexit please?

Or was that post an oh so clever ruse to smoke out some racist Brexiteers, horrified by the thought of.... fergals!

Move over Ben


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSuMSu20avs

SeanT the Roger of sports predictions...

murali_s said:

Roger said:

Very good news. The tide seems to be turning. Not surprising really. Those who wanted change by definition are the ones who voted 'Leave' and so far nothing has changed. What's more if nothing changes for the better-and lets be honest it's not likely too-they'll be on your tails like a pack of hyenas.

The sh*t is slowly beginning to hit the fan. Brexit (if it happens) will be painful and tortuous and all for what? To essentially limit the number of foreigners and darkies coming in? Massive price to pay to the darkies out I say.

An ugly comment that says more about you than others.

FrancisUrquhart said:

SeanT the Roger of sports predictions...

Seandamus....

SimonStClare said:

murali_s said:

Roger said:

Very good news. The tide seems to be turning. Not surprising really. Those who wanted change by definition are the ones who voted 'Leave' and so far nothing has changed. What's more if nothing changes for the better-and lets be honest it's not likely too-they'll be on your tails like a pack of hyenas.

The sh*t is slowly beginning to hit the fan. Brexit (if it happens) will be painful and tortuous and all for what? To essentially limit the number of foreigners and darkies coming in? Massive price to pay to the darkies out I say.

An ugly comment that says more about you than others.

Where were you during the campaign? Under a rock? The leave campaign was the very definition of ugly!!!

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/mrharrycole/status/835871521511993344

Could the tories really be that lucky?

Are Labour that stupiid?

Floater said:

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/mrharrycole/status/835871521511993344

Could the tories really be that lucky?

Are Labour that stupiid?

Camo's genie appears to be working wonders for Mrs May too..

FF43 said:

isam said:

As with Scotland, it seems the happy medium has been found

We are leaving the EU, and leavers have handed the control of our departure to Remainers

Scotland is staying in the UK, and we have let Leavers look after things up there

The extremes on both sides are moaning, but most people are ok with it

Unfortunately I don't think this is the case. Regardless of whether you think leaving the EU is a good thing, we need to make the best of it if we are going ahead. Neither Leavers nor Remainers are engaging on the practical issues. Leavers because they can't; Remainers because they don't want to.

The biggest lie of the Leave campaign wasn't the £350 million for the NHS; it was the implied promise that leaving the EU was free of consequences - we will be more disconnected; there will be more demand for patronage at the point when the taxbase shrinks; there will be fewer trading prospects; it will stress the United Kingdom constitutionally - and so on. Having denied there were any real consequences to the decision to leave, and continuing to do so, they aren't in a position to deal with those consequences.

Remainers on the other hand don't see any reason to involve themselves in a project that they that is misbegotten and that they never agreed with. Why should they work their socks off to mitigate the damage so that we end up in a position that is better than it might be but worse than it was before? Especially if they think they are going to be blamed by Leavers for sabotaging the project where it does fall short.

It's not a good position to be in, but it is what it is.

That perhaps describes those who pontificate on here about it, but the person who has ultimate responsibility for it is our PM, and we haven't had one that was a leaver since 1991!

isam said:

FF43 said:

isam said:

As with Scotland, it seems the happy medium has been found

We are leaving the EU, and leavers have handed the control of our departure to Remainers

Scotland is staying in the UK, and we have let Leavers look after things up there

The extremes on both sides are moaning, but most people are ok with it

Unfortunately I don't think this is the case. Regardless of whether you think leaving the EU is a good thing, we need to make the best of it if we are going ahead. Neither Leavers nor Remainers are engaging on the practical issues. Leavers because they can't; Remainers because they don't want to.

The biggest lie of the Leave campaign wasn't the £350 million for the NHS; it was the implied promise that leaving the EU was free of consequences - we will be more disconnected; there will be more demand for patronage at the point when the taxbase shrinks; there will be fewer trading prospects; it will stress the United Kingdom constitutionally - and so on. Having denied there were any real consequences to the decision to leave, and continuing to do so, they aren't in a position to deal with those consequences.

Remainers on the other hand don't see any reason to involve themselves in a project that they that is misbegotten and that they never agreed with. Why should they work their socks off to mitigate the damage so that we end up in a position that is better than it might be but worse than it was before? Especially if they think they are going to be blamed by Leavers for sabotaging the project where it does fall short.

It's not a good position to be in, but it is what it is.

That perhaps describes those who pontificate on here about it, but the person who has ultimate responsibility for it is our PM, and we haven't had one that was a leaver since 1991!

I don't think we've had a Leaver in Downing Street since 1957.

That's a great try by Italy.