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But when did any debate 'convince someone they are wrong' who was one of the participants rather than an audience member? I can usually manage - in class and on the topic of Physics. But in politics?RobD said:
Yeah, those protestors probably made his visit a hundred times more successful in his eyes. Gone are the days when you debate someone to convince people they are wrong, now you just shut down any form of debate.The_Apocalypse said:
I'm aware that Indigo's point: I acknowledge that point in my post to Indigo:RobD said:
And I'm sure he would have been no where near the top spot if his name hadn't been plastered all over the media, which I think was Indigo's point.The_Apocalypse said:
I know, my point is, is that Milo's not there anymore. The publicity he received was not enough to sustain his sales (at least seemingly in the top ten).RobD said:
Yes, how is that in contention with this statement:The_Apocalypse said:@RobD The article is dated February 2nd - the screen shot appears to be from then, not now.
"The same was true of Milo until he ended up on the news after the college protest, then all of a sudden his book jumped the No.1 political book bought in the USA, in the Top 50 of ALL books bought in the USA, so that worked out well."
The riots were on the 2nd. His book went to the top of the list on the 2nd.
As you have just said, the activities of those at Berkley university ended up on TV news networks across the US, and thus who Milo was would have been made clear to your average person.0 -
Presumably it isn't categorised as political, just political humor.rcs1000 said:@Indigo, @The_Apocalypse
It's funny: Dangerous isn't in the top 60 sellers in "Politics", but is 47th for best selling book overall, two ahead of "The Legend of Zelda: Art and Artifacts"0 -
I don't think the categories update all at the same time, which is odd. I also suspect that the hourly nature of them makes them... errr... highly volatile. You probably only need a few tens of sales to get into the top 100 at 3am on Monday morning.RobD said:
I make it 26th in the Politics and Social Science category, which is the first level down as it were.rcs1000 said:@Indigo, @The_Apocalypse
It's funny: Dangerous isn't in the top 60 sellers in "Politics", but is 47th for best selling book overall, two ahead of "The Legend of Zelda: Art and Artifacts"0 -
Is it really hourly or just updated hourly?rcs1000 said:
I don't think the categories update all at the same time, which is odd. I also suspect that the hourly nature of them makes them... errr... highly volatile. You probably only need a few tens of sales to get into the top 100 at 3am on Monday morning.RobD said:
I make it 26th in the Politics and Social Science category, which is the first level down as it were.rcs1000 said:@Indigo, @The_Apocalypse
It's funny: Dangerous isn't in the top 60 sellers in "Politics", but is 47th for best selling book overall, two ahead of "The Legend of Zelda: Art and Artifacts"0 -
That is true, people are often entrenched on these sort of things. Does that mean we should forego any debate on anything political?Fysics_Teacher said:
But when did any debate 'convince someone they are wrong' who was one of the participants rather than an audience member? I can usually manage - in class and on the topic of Physics. But in politics?RobD said:
Yeah, those protestors probably made his visit a hundred times more successful in his eyes. Gone are the days when you debate someone to convince people they are wrong, now you just shut down any form of debate.The_Apocalypse said:
I'm aware that Indigo's point: I acknowledge that point in my post to Indigo:RobD said:
And I'm sure he would have been no where near the top spot if his name hadn't been plastered all over the media, which I think was Indigo's point.The_Apocalypse said:
I know, my point is, is that Milo's not there anymore. The publicity he received was not enough to sustain his sales (at least seemingly in the top ten).RobD said:
Yes, how is that in contention with this statement:The_Apocalypse said:@RobD The article is dated February 2nd - the screen shot appears to be from then, not now.
"The same was true of Milo until he ended up on the news after the college protest, then all of a sudden his book jumped the No.1 political book bought in the USA, in the Top 50 of ALL books bought in the USA, so that worked out well."
The riots were on the 2nd. His book went to the top of the list on the 2nd.
As you have just said, the activities of those at Berkley university ended up on TV news networks across the US, and thus who Milo was would have been made clear to your average person.0 -
.com. I assumed his sales will be negligible in the UK, who knows, perhaps not.Sunil_Prasannan said:Amazon.com or Amazon.co.uk?
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@rcs1000 Yes, that's odd. Maybe we need to wait for an official weekly bestseller list to know where the book stands.0
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It's 81st in Politics, which makes no sense.AlsoIndigo said:
Presumably it isn't categorised as political, just political humor.rcs1000 said:@Indigo, @The_Apocalypse
It's funny: Dangerous isn't in the top 60 sellers in "Politics", but is 47th for best selling book overall, two ahead of "The Legend of Zelda: Art and Artifacts"0 -
The Krays were of Irish, Jewish and Romany Gypsy ancestry apparently - Wikipedia.Bromptonaut said:
"Aye, 'appen that's reet enough", as Ronnie Kray was wont to say.David_Evershed said:
The north is where the criminals come from. Simples.GeoffM said:
But where does the North start?David_Evershed said:
Carried out by northerners obviously.Pong said:
Because crime happens in London and the South East, perhaps?Luckyguy1983 said:WRT higher wages for prison officers in London and the South East - why are there still prisons in London and the South East?
Not sure if we've discussed that before. [ducks, runs]0 -
That's a great read.Richard_Tyndall said:I am not sure if this has been posted on here before and I am not knowledgeable enough about the internet trends discussed to know how accurate it is, but this is a fascinating read about one possible source for Trump's widespread support.
https://medium.com/@DaleBeran/4chan-the-skeleton-key-to-the-rise-of-trump-624e7cb798cb#.khaidnrpa0 -
It is although either it, or I, got lost in the middle somewhere. The first half is about the vast sea of basement dwelling failures that frequent 4chan, and how it spun off Anonymous, and started to move into more mainstream political activism as they felt their interests were threatened by the real world outside.Pong said:
That's a great read.Richard_Tyndall said:I am not sure if this has been posted on here before and I am not knowledgeable enough about the internet trends discussed to know how accurate it is, but this is a fascinating read about one possible source for Trump's widespread support.
https://medium.com/@DaleBeran/4chan-the-skeleton-key-to-the-rise-of-trump-624e7cb798cb#.khaidnrpa
The second half seemed to say that Trump is a failure, and the guys on 4chan celebrate failures, so they are clearly the engine powering his ascent. I was missing the causal link there although perhaps I need to read it again. Either way its not plausible to suggest that almost 70m voters live in their mother's basements
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Dutch poll update:
According to the Wikipedia page, Liss (who I don't know) have just published a poll on the Dutch election. It shows a continuation of the trend we've seen in other polls, with the PVV losing ground to the VVD:
VVD 26
PVV 24
D66 18
SP 16
GL 16
CDA 15
PdVA 130 -
No, because the audience can be swayed. I agree with your main point, which I think is that open debate is better than shutting your opponents up, but I disagreed with the target of the debate.RobD said:
That is true, people are often entrenched on these sort of things. Does that mean we should forego any debate on anything political?Fysics_Teacher said:
But when did any debate 'convince someone they are wrong' who was one of the participants rather than an audience member? I can usually manage - in class and on the topic of Physics. But in politics?RobD said:
Yeah, those protestors probably made his visit a hundred times more successful in his eyes. Gone are the days when you debate someone to convince people they are wrong, now you just shut down any form of debate.The_Apocalypse said:
I'm aware that Indigo's point: I acknowledge that point in my post to Indigo:RobD said:
And I'm sure he would have been no where near the top spot if his name hadn't been plastered all over the media, which I think was Indigo's point.The_Apocalypse said:
I know, my point is, is that Milo's not there anymore. The publicity he received was not enough to sustain his sales (at least seemingly in the top ten).RobD said:
Yes, how is that in contention with this statement:The_Apocalypse said:@RobD The article is dated February 2nd - the screen shot appears to be from then, not now.
"The same was true of Milo until he ended up on the news after the college protest, then all of a sudden his book jumped the No.1 political book bought in the USA, in the Top 50 of ALL books bought in the USA, so that worked out well."
The riots were on the 2nd. His book went to the top of the list on the 2nd.
As you have just said, the activities of those at Berkley university ended up on TV news networks across the US, and thus who Milo was would have been made clear to your average person.0 -
I see piers Morgan has been forced to step down from hosting an award show. Despite having zero time for him, think it is a very slippery slope (and also faking stories etc etc etc he was at the mirror didn't ruin his career, but saying trump isn't Hitler appears to be enough to affect it).0
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Which party is Geert?rcs1000 said:Dutch poll update:
According to the Wikipedia page, Liss (who I don't know) have just published a poll on the Dutch election. It shows a continuation of the trend we've seen in other polls, with the PVV losing ground to the VVD:
VVD 26
PVV 24
D66 18
SP 16
GL 16
CDA 15
PdVA 130 -
The PVV.Dixie said:
Which party is Geert?rcs1000 said:Dutch poll update:
According to the Wikipedia page, Liss (who I don't know) have just published a poll on the Dutch election. It shows a continuation of the trend we've seen in other polls, with the PVV losing ground to the VVD:
VVD 26
PVV 24
D66 18
SP 16
GL 16
CDA 15
PdVA 13
Note: these are seat projections in a 150 seat parliament. So 26 = 17% of the vote0 -
PVVDixie said:
Which party is Geert?rcs1000 said:Dutch poll update:
According to the Wikipedia page, Liss (who I don't know) have just published a poll on the Dutch election. It shows a continuation of the trend we've seen in other polls, with the PVV losing ground to the VVD:
VVD 26
PVV 24
D66 18
SP 16
GL 16
CDA 15
PdVA 130 -
As the Rev Pie said in his rant about Trump, if you shut people down and insult them, they will stop talking to you, but won't change their views. If you don't engage people you don't know what they will do in the voting booth when no one is watching them, and when they contemplate being described as a basket of deplorables before deciding where to put the cross.Fysics_Teacher said:
No, because the audience can be swayed. I agree with your main point, which I think is that open debate is better than shutting your opponents up, but I disagreed with the target of the debate.RobD said:
That is true, people are often entrenched on these sort of things. Does that mean we should forego any debate on anything political?Fysics_Teacher said:
But when did any debate 'convince someone they are wrong' who was one of the participants rather than an audience member? I can usually manage - in class and on the topic of Physics. But in politics?RobD said:
Yeah, those protestors probably made his visit a hundred times more successful in his eyes. Gone are the days when you debate someone to convince people they are wrong, now you just shut down any form of debate.The_Apocalypse said:
I'm aware that Indigo's point: I acknowledge that point in my post to Indigo:RobD said:
And I'm sure he would have been no where near the top spot if his name hadn't been plastered all over the media, which I think was Indigo's point.The_Apocalypse said:
I know, my point is, is that Milo's not there anymore. The publicity he received was not enough to sustain his sales (at least seemingly in the top ten).RobD said:
Yes, how is that in contention with this statement:The_Apocalypse said:@RobD The article is dated February 2nd - the screen shot appears to be from then, not now.
"The same was true of Milo until he ended up on the news after the college protest, then all of a sudden his book jumped the No.1 political book bought in the USA, in the Top 50 of ALL books bought in the USA, so that worked out well."
The riots were on the 2nd. His book went to the top of the list on the 2nd.
As you have just said, the activities of those at Berkley university ended up on TV news networks across the US, and thus who Milo was would have been made clear to your average person.0 -
Just looking at the Liss figures, they have no fewer than six parties getting between 10 and 20% of the vote.0
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May be the powers that be at Amazon have decided it's not "politics" but "rantings from the dark side" to try and dissuade people from reading it?rcs1000 said:@Indigo, @The_Apocalypse
It's funny: Dangerous isn't in the top 60 sellers in "Politics", but is 47th for best selling book overall, two ahead of "The Legend of Zelda: Art and Artifacts"0 -
It'll be ranting - with much that is enjoyable, but rather too much that is "false but that's OK, because we didn't expect you to actually believe it's true, because we're just trolling".Charles said:
May be the powers that be at Amazon have decided it's not "politics" but "rantings from the dark side" to try and dissuade people from reading it?rcs1000 said:@Indigo, @The_Apocalypse
It's funny: Dangerous isn't in the top 60 sellers in "Politics", but is 47th for best selling book overall, two ahead of "The Legend of Zelda: Art and Artifacts"0 -
So that seems awfully low compared with the numbers here:rcs1000 said:
The PVV.Dixie said:
Which party is Geert?rcs1000 said:Dutch poll update:
According to the Wikipedia page, Liss (who I don't know) have just published a poll on the Dutch election. It shows a continuation of the trend we've seen in other polls, with the PVV losing ground to the VVD:
VVD 26
PVV 24
D66 18
SP 16
GL 16
CDA 15
PdVA 13
Note: these are seat projections in a 150 seat parliament. So 26 = 17% of the vote
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_Dutch_general_election,_20170 -
So like the Guardian then?rcs1000 said:
It'll be ranting - with much that is enjoyable, but rather too much that is "false but that's OK, because we didn't expect you to actually believe it's true, because we're just trolling".Charles said:
May be the powers that be at Amazon have decided it's not "politics" but "rantings from the dark side" to try and dissuade people from reading it?rcs1000 said:@Indigo, @The_Apocalypse
It's funny: Dangerous isn't in the top 60 sellers in "Politics", but is 47th for best selling book overall, two ahead of "The Legend of Zelda: Art and Artifacts"0 -
thank youRobD said:
PVVDixie said:
Which party is Geert?rcs1000 said:Dutch poll update:
According to the Wikipedia page, Liss (who I don't know) have just published a poll on the Dutch election. It shows a continuation of the trend we've seen in other polls, with the PVV losing ground to the VVD:
VVD 26
PVV 24
D66 18
SP 16
GL 16
CDA 15
PdVA 130 -
Most of the Dutch opinion pollsters have the PVV on 26-27, except Piel who have them on 29, I&O who are on 20, and Liss who are on 24. I think the only thing worthy of note is that the PVV has gone from being on 30-36 at the end of 2016 are now in the mid to high 20s. It's quite possible (although I wouldn't say likely yet) that they'll end up trailing the VVD by a seat or two.RobD said:
So that seems awfully low compared with the numbers here:rcs1000 said:
The PVV.Dixie said:
Which party is Geert?rcs1000 said:Dutch poll update:
According to the Wikipedia page, Liss (who I don't know) have just published a poll on the Dutch election. It shows a continuation of the trend we've seen in other polls, with the PVV losing ground to the VVD:
VVD 26
PVV 24
D66 18
SP 16
GL 16
CDA 15
PdVA 13
Note: these are seat projections in a 150 seat parliament. So 26 = 17% of the vote
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_Dutch_general_election,_20170 -
I wouldn't knowCharles said:
So like the Guardian then?rcs1000 said:
It'll be ranting - with much that is enjoyable, but rather too much that is "false but that's OK, because we didn't expect you to actually believe it's true, because we're just trolling".Charles said:
May be the powers that be at Amazon have decided it's not "politics" but "rantings from the dark side" to try and dissuade people from reading it?rcs1000 said:@Indigo, @The_Apocalypse
It's funny: Dangerous isn't in the top 60 sellers in "Politics", but is 47th for best selling book overall, two ahead of "The Legend of Zelda: Art and Artifacts"
0 -
Yeah, you can see they have fallen back a bit in the plot on the wikipedia page.rcs1000 said:
Most of the Dutch opinion pollsters have the PVV on 26-27, except Piel who have them on 29, I&O who are on 20, and Liss who are on 24. I think the only thing worthy of note is that the PVV has gone from being on 30-36 at the end of 2016 are now in the mid to high 20s. It's quite possible (although I wouldn't say likely yet) that they'll end up trailing the VVD by a seat or two.RobD said:
So that seems awfully low compared with the numbers here:rcs1000 said:
The PVV.Dixie said:
Which party is Geert?rcs1000 said:Dutch poll update:
According to the Wikipedia page, Liss (who I don't know) have just published a poll on the Dutch election. It shows a continuation of the trend we've seen in other polls, with the PVV losing ground to the VVD:
VVD 26
PVV 24
D66 18
SP 16
GL 16
CDA 15
PdVA 13
Note: these are seat projections in a 150 seat parliament. So 26 = 17% of the vote
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_Dutch_general_election,_20170 -
Was about to post an identical comment. The first half is an interesting read if you have not heard of, or know little about, 4chan and the evolution of internet memes and the "Anonymous" movement. If you do it's just old hat, the same content can be found elsewhere - though I think he wrote it fairly well. The segue is a bit weird, but is spun very much on his personal interpretation of (a) the lifestyle, opinions and motivations of 4chan users (despite them being a disparate group - they can't all be basement-dwelling troglodytes) and (b) the huge Trump phenomonomenomomen.AlsoIndigo said:
It is although either it, or I, got lost in the middle somewhere. The first half is about the vast sea of basement dwelling failures that frequent 4chan, and how it spun off Anonymous, and started to move into more mainstream political activism as they felt their interests were threatened by the real world outside.Pong said:
That's a great read.Richard_Tyndall said:I am not sure if this has been posted on here before and I am not knowledgeable enough about the internet trends discussed to know how accurate it is, but this is a fascinating read about one possible source for Trump's widespread support.
https://medium.com/@DaleBeran/4chan-the-skeleton-key-to-the-rise-of-trump-624e7cb798cb#.khaidnrpa
The second half seemed to say that Trump is a failure, and the guys on 4chan celebrate failures, so they are clearly the engine powering his ascent. I was missing the causal link there although perhaps I need to read it again. Either way its not plausible to suggest that almost 70m voters live in their mother's basements
Basically, the guy is attempting to psychoanalyse 4chan. Only a twit attempts to psychoanalyse 4chan.0 -
Going to put my neck on the line.
I predict not only will Labour hold in both byelections this week, they'll have a swing towards them in both.
Bookmark this post for schadenfreude on Friday, if you wish.0 -
"The order is: engage the Corbyn Drive!"Danny565 said:Going to put my neck on the line.
I predict not only will Labour hold in both byelections this week, they'll have a swing towards them in both.
Bookmark this post for schadenfreude on Friday, if you wish. 0 -
You are Professor the Lord Nuttall, DSO, and I claim my five pounds.Danny565 said:Going to put my neck on the line.
I predict not only will Labour hold in both byelections this week, they'll have a swing towards them in both.
Bookmark this post for schadenfreude on Friday, if you wish.0 -
Reported Theresa May has instructed the Home Office to review the child refugee crisis with the French Government, made clear her concern re Heinz takeover of Unilever which has now been withdrawn and has stepped in personally with the Head of Peugeot over the future of Vauxhall.
Not bad for a weekend when she is supposed to be overwhelmed with Brexit0 -
You've got a chance. local elections are showing Libs and Labour growing, Tories and UKIP falling.Danny565 said:Going to put my neck on the line.
I predict not only will Labour hold in both byelections this week, they'll have a swing towards them in both.
Bookmark this post for schadenfreude on Friday, if you wish.0 -
Shades of 'eye-catching initiatives' that she can be 'personally associated' with?Big_G_NorthWales said:Reported Theresa May has instructed the Home Office to review the child refugee crisis with the French Government, made clear her concern re Heinz takeover of Unilever which has now been withdrawn and has stepped in personally with the Head of Peugeot over the future of Vauxhall.
Not bad for a weekend when she is supposed to be overwhelmed with Brexit0 -
That is what you'd expect normally. Oldham West & Royton is a precedent. If Labour's ground game is to be important (and it did very well in the north west in 2015) I would expect it to be stronger in Stoke, which is easily accessible, than in Copeland, which is not.Danny565 said:Going to put my neck on the line.
I predict not only will Labour hold in both byelections this week, they'll have a swing towards them in both.
Bookmark this post for schadenfreude on Friday, if you wish.0 -
I also heard she hit a hole in one on every hole during a round of golf yesterday. Even though she's never played golf ever. At all. And she's written six full operas over the weekend.Big_G_NorthWales said:Reported Theresa May has instructed the Home Office to review the child refugee crisis with the French Government, made clear her concern re Heinz takeover of Unilever which has now been withdrawn and has stepped in personally with the Head of Peugeot over the future of Vauxhall.
Not bad for a weekend when she is supposed to be overwhelmed with Brexit
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Mr Dancer?rcs1000 said:
Milo's book has been successful; even very successful. But, if we're going to be honest, it's probably quite a lot less successful than the books published by one of PB's own.RobD said:
The list updates hourly.The_Apocalypse said:
Protests against Milo were not exclusively online. As you have just said, the activities of those at Berkley university ended up on TV news networks across the US, and thus who Milo was would have been made clear to your average person. Whereas online protests/opposition meant Milo was just a fringe name. Also Milo's name is nowhere to be seen here: https://www.nytimes.com/books/best-sellers/hardcover-political-books/ Or here: https://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Books-Politics/zgbs/books/11079AlsoIndigo said:
The same was true of Milo until he ended up on the news after the college protest, then all of a sudden his book jumped the No.1 political book bought in the USA, in the Top 50 of ALL books bought in the USA, so that worked out well. Protest against the alt-right and boom everyone is reading their books.The_Apocalypse said:That strong online presence is not neccessarily reflective of awareness or success in real life can be seen on Instagram. Selena Gomez has 99m followers, and was the most followed person on Instagram in 2016. This doesn't mean however, that Gomez is most successful singer real life. As has been acknowledged recently, singers such as Adele, Beyonce - and even Rihanna are all more successful than Gomez in real life, despite having an online presence which is as less strong as her's.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/milos-upcoming-book-grabs-top-spot-on-amazons-best-seller-list_us_5894c8dfe4b09bd304bb3326 0 -
Effective leaders need to delegateBig_G_NorthWales said:Reported Theresa May has instructed the Home Office to review the child refugee crisis with the French Government, made clear her concern re Heinz takeover of Unilever which has now been withdrawn and has stepped in personally with the Head of Peugeot over the future of Vauxhall.
Not bad for a weekend when she is supposed to be overwhelmed with Brexit
0 -
I'm sure they do.AlastairMeeks said:
Why would the UK play ball?
Ps if they were that worried about citizens' rights that could have been dealt with already. But they just want to use it as a negotiating chip
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It's all going to be so expensive and difficult to leave. We should probably stay in.AlastairMeeks said:0 -
The FT's addition in square brackets somewhat pre-empts the scope of the discussion. Anyone with a passport that says 'European Union' on it has 'acquired rights' as a citizen of the union, and the talks cannot just be limited to expats.AlastairMeeks said:acquired rights [of expatriate citizens]
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In related news, the UK wants to tie down the share of the EU assets it will get when it leaves, before beginning trade talks.AlastairMeeks said:
Negotiation is full of wants.0 -
Our side are drawing up a list of the assets we expect them to hand to us as well.Charles said:0 -
What does not playing ball look like?Charles said:
I'm sure they do.AlastairMeeks said:
Why would the UK play ball?
Ps if they were that worried about citizens' rights that could have been dealt with already. But they just want to use it as a negotiating chip
As for your PS, no they couldn't because the British government has not made any proposal to protect the right to free movement for all current EU citizens.0 -
You may as well speak in Serbo/Croat for all I know;rcs1000 said:Dutch poll update:
According to the Wikipedia page, Liss (who I don't know) have just published a poll on the Dutch election. It shows a continuation of the trend we've seen in other polls, with the PVV losing ground to the VVD:
VVD 26
PVV 24
D66 18
SP 16
GL 16
CDA 15
PdVA 13
More information required.....
which of these letters are for nice, intelligent, educated, thoughtful, Remain progressive groups like myself...and which are for populist, nasty, thick, ill educated oiks...the Brexit or Trump types
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That's a considered assessment thenTwistedFireStopper said:
I also heard she hit a hole in one on every hole during a round of golf yesterday. Even though she's never played golf ever. At all. And she's written six full operas over the weekend.Big_G_NorthWales said:Reported Theresa May has instructed the Home Office to review the child refugee crisis with the French Government, made clear her concern re Heinz takeover of Unilever which has now been withdrawn and has stepped in personally with the Head of Peugeot over the future of Vauxhall.
Not bad for a weekend when she is supposed to be overwhelmed with Brexit0 -
VVD, PVV, CDA, CU, SGP, are the good people.tyson said:
You may as well speak in Serbo/Croat for all I know;rcs1000 said:Dutch poll update:
According to the Wikipedia page, Liss (who I don't know) have just published a poll on the Dutch election. It shows a continuation of the trend we've seen in other polls, with the PVV losing ground to the VVD:
VVD 26
PVV 24
D66 18
SP 16
GL 16
CDA 15
PdVA 13
More information required.....
which of these letters are for nice, intelligent, educated, thoughtful, Remain progressive groups like myself...and which are for populist, nasty, thick, ill educated oiks...the Brexit or Trump types0 -
I voted to give up those 'rights'.williamglenn said:
The FT's addition in square brackets somewhat pre-empts the scope of the discussion. Anyone with a passport that says 'European Union' on it has 'acquired rights' as a citizen of the union, and the talks cannot just be limited to expats.AlastairMeeks said:acquired rights [of expatriate citizens]
Don't force me to keep them.0 -
Saving killing her brother until next weekend?TwistedFireStopper said:
I also heard she hit a hole in one on every hole during a round of golf yesterday. Even though she's never played golf ever. At all. And she's written six full operas over the weekend.Big_G_NorthWales said:Reported Theresa May has instructed the Home Office to review the child refugee crisis with the French Government, made clear her concern re Heinz takeover of Unilever which has now been withdrawn and has stepped in personally with the Head of Peugeot over the future of Vauxhall.
Not bad for a weekend when she is supposed to be overwhelmed with Brexit0 -
Why would it be with just ex pats. It should be with everyone affected (including Tyson's wife)williamglenn said:
The FT's addition in square brackets somewhat pre-empts the scope of the discussion. Anyone with a passport that says 'European Union' on it has 'acquired rights' as a citizen of the union, and the talks cannot just be limited to expats.AlastairMeeks said:acquired rights [of expatriate citizens]
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Apologies for my little, humorous dig below......
But please can someone please tell me the difference between those civilians in Aleppo who were brutalised by Assad and Russian merciless airpower....and the civilians of Mosul tonight who are being caught in the Allied attacks? Thank you very much in advance....0 -
No-one's forcing you to exercise them, although it's remarkable how many Kippers do.GeoffM said:
I voted to give up those 'rights'.williamglenn said:
The FT's addition in square brackets somewhat pre-empts the scope of the discussion. Anyone with a passport that says 'European Union' on it has 'acquired rights' as a citizen of the union, and the talks cannot just be limited to expats.AlastairMeeks said:acquired rights [of expatriate citizens]
Don't force me to keep them.0 -
50/1 on the greens to come 4th in Stoke;
https://sports.ladbrokes.com/en-gb/betting/politics/british/local-by-elections/stoke-on-trent-central-by-election/223166439/
I think there's a smidgen of value there.0 -
The UK is not going to negotiate part of the deal first . Why would they? No one evwr does. It's in both parties' interest to have a workable long term relationship so there will be a deal done.williamglenn said:
What does not playing ball look like?Charles said:
I'm sure they do.AlastairMeeks said:
Why would the UK play ball?
Ps if they were that worried about citizens' rights that could have been dealt with already. But they just want to use it as a negotiating chip
As for your PS, no they couldn't because the British government has not made any proposal to protect the right to free movement for all current EU citizens.
And, no, despite how many times you say it, there are no acquired rights for people with an EU passport.
0 -
No less a considered assessment than you thinking the sun shines out of her arse, is it? She's the PM, for fecks sake, not the second coming.Big_G_NorthWales said:
That's a considered assessment thenTwistedFireStopper said:
I also heard she hit a hole in one on every hole during a round of golf yesterday. Even though she's never played golf ever. At all. And she's written six full operas over the weekend.Big_G_NorthWales said:Reported Theresa May has instructed the Home Office to review the child refugee crisis with the French Government, made clear her concern re Heinz takeover of Unilever which has now been withdrawn and has stepped in personally with the Head of Peugeot over the future of Vauxhall.
Not bad for a weekend when she is supposed to be overwhelmed with Brexit0 -
Quite. Every current citizen of the EU wherever they live is faced with a change in their rights as a result of Brexit. Unless the British government is willing to honour the rights of all EU citizens it's right they they should be made to see the impudence of their position.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Why would it be with just ex pats. It should be with everyone affected (including Tyson's wife)williamglenn said:
The FT's addition in square brackets somewhat pre-empts the scope of the discussion. Anyone with a passport that says 'European Union' on it has 'acquired rights' as a citizen of the union, and the talks cannot just be limited to expats.AlastairMeeks said:acquired rights [of expatriate citizens]
0 -
Why should we make such a proposal?williamglenn said:
What does not playing ball look like?Charles said:
I'm sure they do.AlastairMeeks said:
Why would the UK play ball?
Ps if they were that worried about citizens' rights that could have been dealt with already. But they just want to use it as a negotiating chip
As for your PS, no they couldn't because the British government has not made any proposal to protect the right to free movement for all current EU citizens.0 -
Which is more than their claim. Fun and games ahead but a deal will happen - too much to lose on both sides. See Germany were saying that the security and military of the UK is essential to the EU and a fair deal will happenchestnut said:
Our side are drawing up a list of the assets we expect them to hand to us as well.Charles said:0 -
Good thing nobody listened to these numtpies then...Charles said:The UK is not going to negotiate part of the deal first . Why would they? No one evwr does. It's in both parties' interest to have a workable long term relationship so there will be a deal done.
https://twitter.com/hopisen/status/8333719851660820480 -
Who do you think they might beat? I'd have thought the Tories if anyone but they seem to have been backed today oddly.Pong said:50/1 on the greens to come 4th in Stoke;
https://sports.ladbrokes.com/en-gb/betting/politics/british/local-by-elections/stoke-on-trent-central-by-election/223166439/
I think there's a smidgen of value there.0 -
Because it's pretty clear that Assad and the Russians targeted the civilians. The Allies will not.tyson said:Apologies for my little, humorous dig below......
But please can someone please tell me the difference between those civilians in Aleppo who were brutalised by Assad and Russian merciless airpower....and the civilians of Mosul tonight who are being caught in the Allied attacks? Thank you very much in advance....0 -
It's arguable that there are no acquired rights for citizens at all and that everyone should just be left to fend for themselves under national law. This does not seem to be your argument however.Charles said:And, no, despite how many times you say it, there are no acquired rights for people with an EU passport.
0 -
LOL, certainly not me. Highest mine got was in the hundreds ...GeoffM said:
@Morris_Dancer ? @CD13 ? @MTimT ?rcs1000 said:
Milo's book has been successful; even very successful. But, if we're going to be honest, it's probably quite a lot less successful than the books published by one of PB's own.RobD said:
The list updates hourly.The_Apocalypse said:
Protests against Milo were not exclusively online. As you have just said, the activities of those at Berkley university ended up on TV news networks across the US, and thus who Milo was would have been made clear to your average person. Whereas online protests/opposition meant Milo was just a fringe name. Also Milo's name is nowhere to be seen here: https://www.nytimes.com/books/best-sellers/hardcover-political-books/ Or here: https://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Books-Politics/zgbs/books/11079AlsoIndigo said:
The same was true of Milo until he ended up on the news after the college protest, then all of a sudden his book jumped the No.1 political book bought in the USA, in the Top 50 of ALL books bought in the USA, so that worked out well. Protest against the alt-right and boom everyone is reading their books.The_Apocalypse said:That strong online presence is not neccessarily reflective of awareness or success in real life can be seen on Instagram. Selena Gomez has 99m followers, and was the most followed person on Instagram in 2016. This doesn't mean however, that Gomez is most successful singer real life. As has been acknowledged recently, singers such as Adele, Beyonce - and even Rihanna are all more successful than Gomez in real life, despite having an online presence which is as less strong as her's.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/milos-upcoming-book-grabs-top-spot-on-amazons-best-seller-list_us_5894c8dfe4b09bd304bb33260 -
Top draw that man. Can't stop cackling over that one.FrancisUrquhart said:
Saving killing her brother until next weekend?TwistedFireStopper said:
I also heard she hit a hole in one on every hole during a round of golf yesterday. Even though she's never played golf ever. At all. And she's written six full operas over the weekend.Big_G_NorthWales said:Reported Theresa May has instructed the Home Office to review the child refugee crisis with the French Government, made clear her concern re Heinz takeover of Unilever which has now been withdrawn and has stepped in personally with the Head of Peugeot over the future of Vauxhall.
Not bad for a weekend when she is supposed to be overwhelmed with Brexit0 -
In an ideal world there would be. But that would have reduced the EU's advantages so I'm not surprised they didn't agree.Scott_P said:
Good thing nobody for these numtpies then...Charles said:The UK is not going to negotiate part of the deal first . Why would they? No one evwr does. It's in both parties' interest to have a workable long term relationship so there will be a deal done.
https://twitter.com/hopisen/status/8333719851660820480 -
Just ate like a king in Granada for 15 Euros, including a bottle of Rioja between 2SeanT said:I'm drunk and happy.
Just thought I should say that. Sometimes PB needs a dose of positivity.
Well, I'm here to provide it.
Just ate a fabulous 28-aged rib eye from Sainsburys (cost: £7.50) and am now drinking a superb Damilano Barolo from Waitrose, £27.
That's not oligarch money. That's £35 or so for a truly fantastic dinner.
Life is getting better, for most people. Never forget that0 -
What bothers you about her involvement this weekend. Worried she becomes even more popularTwistedFireStopper said:
No less a considered assessment than you thinking the sun shines out of her arse, is it? She's the PM, for fecks sake, not the second coming.Big_G_NorthWales said:
That's a considered assessment thenTwistedFireStopper said:
I also heard she hit a hole in one on every hole during a round of golf yesterday. Even though she's never played golf ever. At all. And she's written six full operas over the weekend.Big_G_NorthWales said:Reported Theresa May has instructed the Home Office to review the child refugee crisis with the French Government, made clear her concern re Heinz takeover of Unilever which has now been withdrawn and has stepped in personally with the Head of Peugeot over the future of Vauxhall.
Not bad for a weekend when she is supposed to be overwhelmed with Brexit0 -
Because it's in our interests. In fact it's in our interests to maintain full freedom of movement indefinitely.Sean_F said:
Why should we make such a proposal?williamglenn said:
What does not playing ball look like?Charles said:
I'm sure they do.AlastairMeeks said:
Why would the UK play ball?
Ps if they were that worried about citizens' rights that could have been dealt with already. But they just want to use it as a negotiating chip
As for your PS, no they couldn't because the British government has not made any proposal to protect the right to free movement for all current EU citizens.
Once upon a time, free market Eurosceptics used to bemoan the lack of immigration within Europe...0 -
And yet, the darkness is all around us.SeanT said:I'm drunk and happy.
Just thought I should say that. Sometimes PB needs a dose of positivity.
Well, I'm here to provide it.
Just ate a fabulous 28-aged rib eye from Sainsburys (cost: £7.50) and am now drinking a superb Damilano Barolo from Waitrose, £27.
The Imperial Reserva Rioja, 2010 is sold out...
Sad.0 -
You should read it properly and not accept an inaccurate twitter paraphrase.Scott_P said:
Good thing nobody listened to these numtpies then...Charles said:The UK is not going to negotiate part of the deal first . Why would they? No one evwr does. It's in both parties' interest to have a workable long term relationship so there will be a deal done.
https://twitter.com/hopisen/status/8333719851660820480 -
It is my argument. But there is a deal to be done because mass deportations are not in anyone's interest.williamglenn said:
It's arguable that there are no acquired rights for citizens at all and that everyone should just be left to fend for themselves under national law. This does not seem to be your argument however.Charles said:And, no, despite how many times you say it, there are no acquired rights for people with an EU passport.
0 -
Aren't they talking about a delay between the vote and A50 invocation, exactly as happened?Scott_P said:
Good thing nobody listened to these numtpies then...Charles said:The UK is not going to negotiate part of the deal first . Why would they? No one evwr does. It's in both parties' interest to have a workable long term relationship so there will be a deal done.
https://twitter.com/hopisen/status/8333719851660820480 -
Fantastic meal for less than a fiverMTimT said:
Just ate like a king in Granada for 15 Euros, including a bottle of Rioja between 2SeanT said:I'm drunk and happy.
Just thought I should say that. Sometimes PB needs a dose of positivity.
Well, I'm here to provide it.
Just ate a fabulous 28-aged rib eye from Sainsburys (cost: £7.50) and am now drinking a superb Damilano Barolo from Waitrose, £27.
That's not oligarch money. That's £35 or so for a truly fantastic dinner.
Life is getting better, for most people. Never forget that0 -
Some of us still do. I think May missed a big trick when she insisted that the EU must reciprocate to any move to guarantee the rights of EU citizens already in the UK. She should have made clear from the start that they were not a bargaining chip and they were welcome to stay as long as they wanted. If the EU chose not to reciprocate then that was their affair and they would be condemned for it. It would have shown both good will and common sense by the UK.williamglenn said:
Because it's in our interests. In fact it's in our interests to maintain full freedom of movement indefinitely.Sean_F said:
Why should we make such a proposal?williamglenn said:
What does not playing ball look like?Charles said:
I'm sure they do.AlastairMeeks said:
Why would the UK play ball?
Ps if they were that worried about citizens' rights that could have been dealt with already. But they just want to use it as a negotiating chip
As for your PS, no they couldn't because the British government has not made any proposal to protect the right to free movement for all current EU citizens.
Once upon a time, free market Eurosceptics used to bemoan the lack of immigration within Europe...
Edited for really bad typing0 -
Yeah, obviously.Big_G_NorthWales said:
What bothers you about her involvement this weekend. Worried she becomes even more popularTwistedFireStopper said:
No less a considered assessment than you thinking the sun shines out of her arse, is it? She's the PM, for fecks sake, not the second coming.Big_G_NorthWales said:
That's a considered assessment thenTwistedFireStopper said:
I also heard she hit a hole in one on every hole during a round of golf yesterday. Even though she's never played golf ever. At all. And she's written six full operas over the weekend.Big_G_NorthWales said:Reported Theresa May has instructed the Home Office to review the child refugee crisis with the French Government, made clear her concern re Heinz takeover of Unilever which has now been withdrawn and has stepped in personally with the Head of Peugeot over the future of Vauxhall.
Not bad for a weekend when she is supposed to be overwhelmed with Brexit0 -
The rights of EU citizens here absolutely needs confirming as part of the negotiation but a time will be decided when all EU citizens lose their absolute right to come to the UK unless they comply with the UK Government new immigration rules. UK citizens going into the EU will have to comply with EU residency rights alsowilliamglenn said:
Quite. Every current citizen of the EU wherever they live is faced with a change in their rights as a result of Brexit. Unless the British government is willing to honour the rights of all EU citizens it's right they they should be made to see the impudence of their position.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Why would it be with just ex pats. It should be with everyone affected (including Tyson's wife)williamglenn said:
The FT's addition in square brackets somewhat pre-empts the scope of the discussion. Anyone with a passport that says 'European Union' on it has 'acquired rights' as a citizen of the union, and the talks cannot just be limited to expats.AlastairMeeks said:acquired rights [of expatriate citizens]
0 -
Times change. Now people want curbs on immigration.williamglenn said:
Because it's in our interests. In fact it's in our interests to maintain full freedom of movement indefinitely.Sean_F said:
Why should we make such a proposal?williamglenn said:
What does not playing ball look like?Charles said:
I'm sure they do.AlastairMeeks said:
Why would the UK play ball?
Ps if they were that worried about citizens' rights that could have been dealt with already. But they just want to use it as a negotiating chip
As for your PS, no they couldn't because the British government has not made any proposal to protect the right to free movement for all current EU citizens.
Once upon a time, free market Eurosceptics used to bemoan the lack of immigration within Europe...0 -
And the definition of Europe has changed in that time. That's the pertinent fact in all of this.Sean_F said:
Times change. Now people want curbs on immigration.williamglenn said:
Because it's in our interests. In fact it's in our interests to maintain full freedom of movement indefinitely.Sean_F said:
Why should we make such a proposal?williamglenn said:
What does not playing ball look like?Charles said:
I'm sure they do.AlastairMeeks said:
Why would the UK play ball?
Ps if they were that worried about citizens' rights that could have been dealt with already. But they just want to use it as a negotiating chip
As for your PS, no they couldn't because the British government has not made any proposal to protect the right to free movement for all current EU citizens.
Once upon a time, free market Eurosceptics used to bemoan the lack of immigration within Europe...0 -
Of course, along with laying the ground globally, not just the EU.RobD said:
Aren't they talking about a delay between the vote and A50 invocation, exactly as happened?Scott_P said:
Good thing nobody listened to these numtpies then...Charles said:The UK is not going to negotiate part of the deal first . Why would they? No one evwr does. It's in both parties' interest to have a workable long term relationship so there will be a deal done.
https://twitter.com/hopisen/status/833371985166082048
0 -
The Russians drop iron bombs over a target, and the Syrian government drops barrel bombs from helicopters. Western forces tend not to use such bombs anymore, it will either be GPS or laser guided. Civilians are still killed by such weapons, but they are far more accurate, and so fewer bombs are used to destroy a target.Charles said:
Because it's pretty clear that Assad and the Russians targeted the civilians. The Allies will not.tyson said:Apologies for my little, humorous dig below......
But please can someone please tell me the difference between those civilians in Aleppo who were brutalised by Assad and Russian merciless airpower....and the civilians of Mosul tonight who are being caught in the Allied attacks? Thank you very much in advance....0 -
Where?Charles said:
Fantastic meal for less than a fiverMTimT said:
Just ate like a king in Granada for 15 Euros, including a bottle of Rioja between 2SeanT said:I'm drunk and happy.
Just thought I should say that. Sometimes PB needs a dose of positivity.
Well, I'm here to provide it.
Just ate a fabulous 28-aged rib eye from Sainsburys (cost: £7.50) and am now drinking a superb Damilano Barolo from Waitrose, £27.
That's not oligarch money. That's £35 or so for a truly fantastic dinner.
Life is getting better, for most people. Never forget that0 -
Do you think Labour are a value bet at 5/2 in Copeland. I think it will probably be very close and the combination of what appears to be a decent candidate and the local hospital stuff give them a far better chance than the odds imply. The possible lack of ground game isn't something I'd considered.AlastairMeeks said:
That is what you'd expect normally. Oldham West & Royton is a precedent. If Labour's ground game is to be important (and it did very well in the north west in 2015) I would expect it to be stronger in Stoke, which is easily accessible, than in Copeland, which is not.Danny565 said:Going to put my neck on the line.
I predict not only will Labour hold in both byelections this week, they'll have a swing towards them in both.
Bookmark this post for schadenfreude on Friday, if you wish.0 -
As Tony Blair said, it's surreal that we're now supposed to believe that EU enlargement has somehow been a bad thing for Britain.tlg86 said:
And the definition of Europe has changed in that time. That's the pertinent fact in all of this.Sean_F said:
Times change. Now people want curbs on immigration.williamglenn said:
Because it's in our interests. In fact it's in our interests to maintain full freedom of movement indefinitely.Sean_F said:
Why should we make such a proposal?williamglenn said:
What does not playing ball look like?Charles said:
I'm sure they do.AlastairMeeks said:
Why would the UK play ball?
Ps if they were that worried about citizens' rights that could have been dealt with already. But they just want to use it as a negotiating chip
As for your PS, no they couldn't because the British government has not made any proposal to protect the right to free movement for all current EU citizens.
Once upon a time, free market Eurosceptics used to bemoan the lack of immigration within Europe...0 -
LondonMTimT said:
Where?Charles said:
Fantastic meal for less than a fiverMTimT said:
Just ate like a king in Granada for 15 Euros, including a bottle of Rioja between 2SeanT said:I'm drunk and happy.
Just thought I should say that. Sometimes PB needs a dose of positivity.
Well, I'm here to provide it.
Just ate a fabulous 28-aged rib eye from Sainsburys (cost: £7.50) and am now drinking a superb Damilano Barolo from Waitrose, £27.
That's not oligarch money. That's £35 or so for a truly fantastic dinner.
Life is getting better, for most people. Never forget that0 -
The state the EU is in it could be argued there has been too much enlargement and in some cases like Greece a big mistakewilliamglenn said:
As Tony Blair said, it's surreal that we're now supposed to believe that EU enlargement has somehow been a bad thing for Britain.tlg86 said:
And the definition of Europe has changed in that time. That's the pertinent fact in all of this.Sean_F said:
Times change. Now people want curbs on immigration.williamglenn said:
Because it's in our interests. In fact it's in our interests to maintain full freedom of movement indefinitely.Sean_F said:
Why should we make such a proposal?williamglenn said:
What does not playing ball look like?Charles said:
I'm sure they do.AlastairMeeks said:
Why would the UK play ball?
Ps if they were that worried about citizens' rights that could have been dealt with already. But they just want to use it as a negotiating chip
As for your PS, no they couldn't because the British government has not made any proposal to protect the right to free movement for all current EU citizens.
Once upon a time, free market Eurosceptics used to bemoan the lack of immigration within Europe...0 -
Crikey, that 4chan article is well off the mark. While the history is more or less accurate the analysis isn't.MyBurningEars said:
Was about to post an identical comment...The segue is a bit weird, but is spun very much on his personal interpretation of (a) the lifestyle, opinions and motivations of 4chan users (despite them being a disparate group - they can't all be basement-dwelling troglodytes) and (b) the huge Trump phenomonomenomomen.AlsoIndigo said:
It is although either it, or I, got lost in the middle somewhere. The first half is about the vast sea of basement dwelling failures that frequent 4chan, and how it spun off Anonymous, and started to move into more mainstream political activism as they felt their interests were threatened by the real world outside.Pong said:
That's a great read.Richard_Tyndall said:I am not sure if this has been posted on here before and I am not knowledgeable enough about the internet trends discussed to know how accurate it is, but this is a fascinating read about one possible source for Trump's widespread support.
https://medium.com/@DaleBeran/4chan-the-skeleton-key-to-the-rise-of-trump-624e7cb798cb#.khaidnrpa
The second half seemed to say that Trump is a failure, and the guys on 4chan celebrate failures, so they are clearly the engine powering his ascent. I was missing the causal link there although perhaps I need to read it again. Either way its not plausible to suggest that almost 70m voters live in their mother's basements
Basically, the guy is attempting to psychoanalyse 4chan. Only a twit attempts to psychoanalyse 4chan.
Of course you get all sorts there but if you're a bit of a misfit, in your twenties, and libertarian/conservative minded, it's like finding your tribe...
You could say "anon" culture foreshadowed Trump and Brexit in giving people who previously felt unable to talk politics that didn't conform to the left-liberal consensus a voice - something the author clearly feels threatened by.
As a twenty-something hanging out on 4chan a decade or so ago(!), it was a revelation to me to discover there were other people out there who didn't subscribe to the stifling left-liberal consensus of the university campus and my IRL friends.
You can't picture yourself as a conservative because you've been brought up to believe that YCs are spotty, church-going do-gooders in chinos and ties - then you discover 4chan and you find that "your people" are misfits, rebels and provocateurs.
Anon culture is anarchic and darwinian (and definitely defies psychoanalysis!), but it also made conservatism feel cool, rebellious, anti-establishment in a way it never did IRL.
0 -
Well it's odd how the rest of the EU put in transition rules when the 10 joined in 2004.williamglenn said:
As Tony Blair said, it's surreal that we're now supposed to believe that EU enlargement has somehow been a bad thing for Britain.tlg86 said:
And the definition of Europe has changed in that time. That's the pertinent fact in all of this.Sean_F said:
Times change. Now people want curbs on immigration.williamglenn said:
Because it's in our interests. In fact it's in our interests to maintain full freedom of movement indefinitely.Sean_F said:
Why should we make such a proposal?williamglenn said:
What does not playing ball look like?Charles said:
I'm sure they do.AlastairMeeks said:
Why would the UK play ball?
Ps if they were that worried about citizens' rights that could have been dealt with already. But they just want to use it as a negotiating chip
As for your PS, no they couldn't because the British government has not made any proposal to protect the right to free movement for all current EU citizens.
Once upon a time, free market Eurosceptics used to bemoan the lack of immigration within Europe...0 -
We ate red lentils, red rice, and a steam/stir-fry of mixed vegetables with chicken pieces, not overcooked in the Japanese manner, with a special flavouring of oil, vinegar and seasonings to my own design, but no wine as my partner isn't allowed that (ouch). Delicious, inexpensive, and customised.
There's nothing quite so fine as indulging one's own tastes precisely.0 -
But he also muttered something about "45 minutes" and "WMD". Look where that got us?williamglenn said:
As Tony Blair said, it's surreal that we're now supposed to believe that EU enlargement has somehow been a bad thing for Britain.tlg86 said:
And the definition of Europe has changed in that time. That's the pertinent fact in all of this.Sean_F said:
Times change. Now people want curbs on immigration.williamglenn said:
Because it's in our interests. In fact it's in our interests to maintain full freedom of movement indefinitely.Sean_F said:
Why should we make such a proposal?williamglenn said:
What does not playing ball look like?Charles said:
I'm sure they do.AlastairMeeks said:
Why would the UK play ball?
Ps if they were that worried about citizens' rights that could have been dealt with already. But they just want to use it as a negotiating chip
As for your PS, no they couldn't because the British government has not made any proposal to protect the right to free movement for all current EU citizens.
Once upon a time, free market Eurosceptics used to bemoan the lack of immigration within Europe...0 -
Are the VVD's for or against venereal disease ?rcs1000 said:Dutch poll update:
According to the Wikipedia page, Liss (who I don't know) have just published a poll on the Dutch election. It shows a continuation of the trend we've seen in other polls, with the PVV losing ground to the VVD:
VVD 26
PVV 24
D66 18
SP 16
GL 16
CDA 15
PdVA 130 -
-
Chapeau!SeanT said:I'm drunk and happy.
Just thought I should say that. Sometimes PB needs a dose of positivity.
Well, I'm here to provide it.
Just ate a fabulous 28-aged rib eye from Sainsburys (cost: £7.50) and am now drinking a superb Damilano Barolo from Waitrose, £27.
That's not oligarch money. That's £35 or so for a truly fantastic dinner.
Life is getting better, for most people. Never forget that
I'm feeling pretty positive myself. Today we picked up the new pup, had a lovely roast chicken and a decent Beaune from M&S.
Life is pretty good sometimes.0 -
The FT's weekly headline about a €60bn EU bill increasingly resembles the Express' weekly flood/blizzard/heatwave one.0
-
Thank you for clarifying that......I'm not convinced though.....Charles said:
Because it's pretty clear that Assad and the Russians targeted the civilians. The Allies will not.tyson said:Apologies for my little, humorous dig below......
But please can someone please tell me the difference between those civilians in Aleppo who were brutalised by Assad and Russian merciless airpower....and the civilians of Mosul tonight who are being caught in the Allied attacks? Thank you very much in advance....
Syria is just horrible..... Every conceivable angle at dissecting that conflict is just nihilistic.0 -
Wait until they reach peak daily express.... Diana levels of EU scare stories.chestnut said:The FT's weekly headline about a €60bn EU bill increasingly resembles the Express' weekly flood/blizzard/heatwave one.
0 -
Just seen the Stoke conservative candidate on Sophy Ridge. He looks very young but seems miles better than the nasty labour and UKIP candidates. Sure he won't come near but Stoke could do a lot worse.
Pleasantly surprised with Sophy on Sunday. She has a nice interview technique and is well briefed. Change from the Faisal Islam's of this World. She could have a very successful career as a political journalist and she should be congratulated on her early promise0 -
George Galloway Verified account
@georgegalloway
Blair Mandy and Campbell all out this week selling us the EU. What could go wrong....?
0 -
The House of Lords might grant your wish. She is a hapless, totally without a clue PM. Zero charisma.Richard_Tyndall said:
Some of us still do. I think May missed a big trick when she insisted that the EU must reciprocate to any move to guarantee the rights of EU citizens already in the UK. She should have made clear from the start that they were not a bargaining chip and they were welcome to stay as long as they wanted. If the EU chose not to reciprocate then that was their affair and they would be condemned for it. It would have shown both good will and common sense by the UK.williamglenn said:
Because it's in our interests. In fact it's in our interests to maintain full freedom of movement indefinitely.Sean_F said:
Why should we make such a proposal?williamglenn said:
What does not playing ball look like?Charles said:
I'm sure they do.AlastairMeeks said:
Why would the UK play ball?
Ps if they were that worried about citizens' rights that could have been dealt with already. But they just want to use it as a negotiating chip
As for your PS, no they couldn't because the British government has not made any proposal to protect the right to free movement for all current EU citizens.
Once upon a time, free market Eurosceptics used to bemoan the lack of immigration within Europe...
Edited for really bad typing0
