politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Corbyn is going nowhere – for now
politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Corbyn is going nowhere – for now
The good news for Jeremy Corbyn is that he is not the most unpopular politician in the UK. The bad news is that the two men who beat him to top spot are Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin. With the Labour leader being kept out of view from voters in Stoke and featuring prominently on Tory campaign literature in Copeland, and the party’s overall poll ratings continuing to slide on the back of the highly divisive and utterly pointless decision to three line whip Labour MPs through the lobbies in support of Tory Hard Brexit, it is no surprise that talk of Corbyn’s leadership is once again front page news. As TSE observed today, it’s becoming a question of when he goes, not whether.
Comments
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First....Lets make
AmericaNew Threads great again...
That photo is one that always brings a smile to my face.0 -
It's ok to call Corbyn scruffy, but not ok to comment on the appearance of Rebecca LB?
I'd like to be seen calling that sexist if I were a virtue signaller0 -
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Fourth like UKIp0
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"As TSE observed today, it’s becoming a question of when he goes, not whether"
Was there a chance he might stay forever then?0 -
The bigger issue to be decided by the lack of far left keyboard warrior success in more day to day meetings is the failure to reshape the makeup of MPs. In every by-election the nominee has not been a Corbynista. Talk of "mandatory reselection" now seems to be dead in the water but even if it wasn't the so-called moderates would win their reselection battles anyway.
Which means it is a matter of when, not if, that the moderate left regains control of the party since they will retain a dominant portion of MPs. The far left is not going to reshape the party in their own image.0 -
After which the question quickly becomes whether the so-called 'moderate' MPs have any better clue as to what might be the solution to Labour's ongoing existential crisis than does the current more left-wing leadership?Philip_Thompson said:The bigger issue to be decided by the lack of far left keyboard warrior success in more day to day meetings is the failure to reshape the makeup of MPs. In every by-election the nominee has not been a Corbynista. Talk of "mandatory reselection" now seems to be dead in the water but even if it wasn't the so-called moderates would win their reselection battles anyway.
Which means it is a matter of when, not if, that the moderate left regains control of the party since they will retain a dominant portion of MPs. The far left is not going to reshape the party in their own image.
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The Labour Party can't leave a political corpse in charge for years. They don't have the luxury of that much time.0
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QTWAIN @IanB20
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Why not?AlastairMeeks said:The Labour Party can't leave a political corpse in charge for years. They don't have the luxury of that much time.
What's the worst that is realistically going to happen? They might lose a few marginals but it isn't as if Brown or Miliband won that many marginals for them to lose.
Without a credible insurgent SNP style challenger in England and Wales most of the PLP are in safe "donkey with a red rosette" territory so does it matter if the party's led by an ass?0 -
The difference is that women tend to be judged on their appearance above all else. Competence and ability are a distant second or third place. For men, their sartorial choices generally do not impact how their competence is judged.isam said:It's ok to call Corbyn scruffy, but not ok to comment on the appearance of Rebecca LB?
I'd like to be seen calling that sexist if I were a virtue signaller
It is a far from level playing field.0 -
The thing is that 2018 comes around and then the "Its too close to a GE to change leader" arguments become ever louder.AlastairMeeks said:The Labour Party can't leave a political corpse in charge for years. They don't have the luxury of that much time.
I think he'll stay till the GE still, although that is my book talking a bit it also is based on the not too wishful thinking that McDonnell, Abbott, Lewis and all the other various pygmies will not be able to work out Corbyn's succession plan between them due to them all wanting it to be "Their plan".0 -
hmmBeverley_C said:
The difference is that women tend to be judged on their appearance above all else. Competence and ability are a distant second or third place. For men, their sartorial choices generally do not impact how their competence is judged.isam said:It's ok to call Corbyn scruffy, but not ok to comment on the appearance of Rebecca LB?
I'd like to be seen calling that sexist if I were a virtue signaller
It is a far from level playing field.
from experience I'd say womens harshest judges on appearance are other women.
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I think it is almost too late now. Given the length of time it takes for Labour to get a leader in place then get a new team picked, sort out the policies and try to get the public to be able to recognise more than 1 out of 10 faces.Pulpstar said:
The thing is that 2018 comes around and then the "Its too close to a GE to change leader" arguments become ever louder.AlastairMeeks said:The Labour Party can't leave a political corpse in charge for years. They don't have the luxury of that much time.
Is three years enough?0 -
Unless and until a membership poll comes out showing Corbyn is beatable given he was re elected by a landslide by the Labour membership just 5 months ago he is staying unless he stands down of his own accord which he won't do unless he knows a fellow Corbynista will succeed him0
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How long does it take to sort out "not the Tories" as a policy position?Beverley_C said:
I think it is almost too late now. Given the length of time it takes for Labour to get a leader in place then get a new team picked, sort out the policies and try to get the public to be able to recognise more than 1 out of 10 faces.Pulpstar said:
The thing is that 2018 comes around and then the "Its too close to a GE to change leader" arguments become ever louder.AlastairMeeks said:The Labour Party can't leave a political corpse in charge for years. They don't have the luxury of that much time.
Is three years enough?0 -
I reckon a few Labour leaders of the past 35 years will dispute that!Beverley_C said:
The difference is that women tend to be judged on their appearance above all else. Competence and ability are a distant second or third place. For men, their sartorial choices generally do not impact how their competence is judged.isam said:It's ok to call Corbyn scruffy, but not ok to comment on the appearance of Rebecca LB?
I'd like to be seen calling that sexist if I were a virtue signaller
It is a far from level playing field.
Foot, Brown, Miliband and Corbyn have all been pilloried for their appearance. As the subject is a potential Labour leader its fair enough, I think it would be sexist to treat a woman differently and I want to be seen signalling that virtue
What you seem to be asking for is affirmative action0 -
Any moderate or centrist candidate will do better in a GE than Corbyn. Lets remember the Tories are led by a charisma free void namely Theresa May. Maybe Labour won't win but they could do markedly better under just about anyone but Corbyn.Beverley_C said:
I think it is almost too late now. Given the length of time it takes for Labour to get a leader in place then get a new team picked, sort out the policies and try to get the public to be able to recognise more than 1 out of 10 faces.Pulpstar said:
The thing is that 2018 comes around and then the "Its too close to a GE to change leader" arguments become ever louder.AlastairMeeks said:The Labour Party can't leave a political corpse in charge for years. They don't have the luxury of that much time.
Is three years enough?
The next election could well be fought in an economic recession, the clock is ticking on that one as economic cycles do not last for ever and Brexit might have negative effects on the economy that amplify any natural pause in growth and pile further pressure on the government.0 -
As a matter of interest SO, since you are a close observer of all things Labour and the direction in which the party should be heading, who would be your top two picks to be the next leader or next pick (i.e. singular), should you believe there is one outstanding candidate who would attract the most support?0
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Surprisingly, there are no betting markets on the year in which Corbyn ceases to be Labour leader. Come on Shadsy, do your stuff!0
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It would be a tremendous shame to miss out on seeing Jeremy Corbyn fighting a General Election campaign.0
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be fair CharlesCharles said:
How long does it take to sort out "not the Tories" as a policy position?Beverley_C said:
I think it is almost too late now. Given the length of time it takes for Labour to get a leader in place then get a new team picked, sort out the policies and try to get the public to be able to recognise more than 1 out of 10 faces.Pulpstar said:
The thing is that 2018 comes around and then the "Its too close to a GE to change leader" arguments become ever louder.AlastairMeeks said:The Labour Party can't leave a political corpse in charge for years. They don't have the luxury of that much time.
Is three years enough?
it took Cameron five years0 -
True enough but the emphasis is different. Generalising is always risky but for the sake of brevity.... for a lot of men a women's appearance is the primary (only?) attribute they judge her by.Alanbrooke said:
hmmBeverley_C said:
The difference is that women tend to be judged on their appearance above all else. Competence and ability are a distant second or third place. For men, their sartorial choices generally do not impact how their competence is judged.isam said:It's ok to call Corbyn scruffy, but not ok to comment on the appearance of Rebecca LB?
I'd like to be seen calling that sexist if I were a virtue signaller
It is a far from level playing field.
from experience I'd say womens harshest judges on appearance are other women.
I could fill this thread up with stories of women I know, some of whom run businesses or who are senior in business. The problem exists, be in no doubt about it.0 -
Paddy Power had one and it was an 84% book!!peter_from_putney said:Surprisingly, there are no betting markets on the year in which Corbyn ceases to be Labour leader. Come on Shadsy, do your stuff!
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Betfair has a complete marketpeter_from_putney said:Surprisingly, there are no betting markets on the year in which Corbyn ceases to be Labour leader. Come on Shadsy, do your stuff!
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I meant to ask NPXMP or anyone else who has canvassed in Stoke how many doorsteppees havesaid they could not vote Nuttall because he looks such an utter chump in his tweed caps.Beverley_C said:
The difference is that women tend to be judged on their appearance above all else. Competence and ability are a distant second or third place. For men, their sartorial choices generally do not impact how their competence is judged.isam said:It's ok to call Corbyn scruffy, but not ok to comment on the appearance of Rebecca LB?
I'd like to be seen calling that sexist if I were a virtue signaller
It is a far from level playing field.0 -
UK politics being a FPTP system has a tendency towards a two big party's + much smaller others.Philip_Thompson said:
Why not?AlastairMeeks said:The Labour Party can't leave a political corpse in charge for years. They don't have the luxury of that much time.
What's the worst that is realistically going to happen? They might lose a few marginals but it isn't as if Brown or Miliband won that many marginals for them to lose.
Without a credible insurgent SNP style challenger in England and Wales most of the PLP are in safe "donkey with a red rosette" territory so does it matter if the party's led by an ass?
This has been slightly tempered with the PR systems for the MEPs and to a lesser extent the Scottish, Welsh and London, elections.
But with the end of MEPs and the introduction of all the extra mayors, we are going to some what revert to being a two party contrary.
In that case it is vital to be one of the big two! and while I think on the balance of probabilities Labour even under JC will be one of the big two in 2020, I don't this its guaranteed, the LibDems or less likely but still possible UKIP, could come out of the 2020 GE as the Official opposition.
Looking at Lab support in opinion poles there support is on a down wood projection to around 17-18% by 2020, and while LD recovery should not be exaggerated, that's not a big target to beet.
we know that between now and 2020, the heralds the Lab Party will face include,
New constituency boundaries - reduce the size of Lab sets, and reducing the incumbency effect in most of the rest.
The Trade union bill - reducing the power of the Union and the size of the political funds to support Labour.
A leader that most MPs do not what to serve with.
The EU issue, where lab voters are split, appear to keen to leave, and upset the reminders, appear to try to stop BREXIT and upset the Leaves.
I'm not saying Labour will defiantly drop to being a minor party, the probability is they will not, but to say it will defiantly not is to ignore what has happed in Scotland.0 -
I am not asking for anything. I am just telling you what I and other women I know experience on a daily basis.isam said:
I reckon a few Labour leaders of the past 35 years will dispute that!Beverley_C said:
The difference is that women tend to be judged on their appearance above all else. Competence and ability are a distant second or third place. For men, their sartorial choices generally do not impact how their competence is judged.isam said:It's ok to call Corbyn scruffy, but not ok to comment on the appearance of Rebecca LB?
I'd like to be seen calling that sexist if I were a virtue signaller
It is a far from level playing field.
Foot, Brown, Miliband and Corbyn have all been pilloried for their appearance. As the subject is a potential Labour leader its fair enough, I think it would be sexist to treat a woman differently and I want to be seen signalling that virtue
What you seem to be asking for is affirmative action
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That is not a policy position. That is a desperate hope, or possibly special pleading.Charles said:How long does it take to sort out "not the Tories" as a policy position?
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Cameron was always a difficult sale due to his upper class background IMO. I was surprised he became leader to be honest when he did. History will not judge his political career positively, he was put up with rather than genuinely supported. He is just a chancer - It would not surprise me if allsorts of things come out of the woodwork that would shock public opinion about him and his circle.Alanbrooke said:
be fair CharlesCharles said:
How long does it take to sort out "not the Tories" as a policy position?Beverley_C said:
I think it is almost too late now. Given the length of time it takes for Labour to get a leader in place then get a new team picked, sort out the policies and try to get the public to be able to recognise more than 1 out of 10 faces.Pulpstar said:
The thing is that 2018 comes around and then the "Its too close to a GE to change leader" arguments become ever louder.AlastairMeeks said:The Labour Party can't leave a political corpse in charge for years. They don't have the luxury of that much time.
Is three years enough?
it took Cameron five years0 -
This is right. Although I have to scoff at women like Charlie Theron who complain about sexism but will get naked for a perfume ad.Beverley_C said:
The difference is that women tend to be judged on their appearance above all else. Competence and ability are a distant second or third place. For men, their sartorial choices generally do not impact how their competence is judged.isam said:It's ok to call Corbyn scruffy, but not ok to comment on the appearance of Rebecca LB?
I'd like to be seen calling that sexist if I were a virtue signaller
It is a far from level playing field.0 -
Both men and women are judged on their appearance, and there are women and men who use their appearance to further their careers.Beverley_C said:
I am not asking for anything. I am just telling you what I and other women I know experience on a daily basis.isam said:
I reckon a few Labour leaders of the past 35 years will dispute that!Beverley_C said:
The difference is that women tend to be judged on their appearance above all else. Competence and ability are a distant second or third place. For men, their sartorial choices generally do not impact how their competence is judged.isam said:It's ok to call Corbyn scruffy, but not ok to comment on the appearance of Rebecca LB?
I'd like to be seen calling that sexist if I were a virtue signaller
It is a far from level playing field.
Foot, Brown, Miliband and Corbyn have all been pilloried for their appearance. As the subject is a potential Labour leader its fair enough, I think it would be sexist to treat a woman differently and I want to be seen signalling that virtue
What you seem to be asking for is affirmative action
But in the field of politics, and specifically Labour leaders, the mild criticism of RLB is nothing to the hammerings that Foot, Brown, Miliband and Corbyn took. It's not even a right vs left thing, I seem to remember there was a poster on here who was fixated with David Camerons hairline, to the point where his avatar was a bald version of the former PM0 -
There is no doubt a strand of opinion among the Labour membership that would like to make Corbyn Eternal Leader, Kim Il-sung style.kle4 said:
The spirit of the left is immortal, and JC is its way, truth and life.isam said:"As TSE observed today, it’s becoming a question of when he goes, not whether"
Was there a chance he might stay forever then?
Yes, I've used that one before.0 -
My personal suspicion is that it will take a leader or two to clear up Corbyn's mess. On the Tory side, Mrs May does not fill me with confidence. I understand that she is in a difficult position with limited room to manoeuvre but I do not feel that she has a grip on her party. Then again, does any Tory PM?The_Taxman said:Any moderate or centrist candidate will do better in a GE than Corbyn. Lets remember the Tories are led by a charisma free void namely Theresa May. Maybe Labour won't win but they could do markedly better under just about anyone but Corbyn.
I fully expect Brexit to be a shambles. I am just hoping that it holds off until 2018 or 2019...The_Taxman said:The next election could well be fought in an economic recession, the clock is ticking on that one as economic cycles do not last for ever and Brexit might have negative effects on the economy that amplify any natural pause in growth and pile further pressure on the government.
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They obviously have different parliamentary 'conventions' in Germany.
https://twitter.com/philipoltermann/status/8308024252379258880 -
I would like us to go in to the next election with a manifesto to the left of that offered by EdM and lead by someone who looks like a PM in waiting. And I don't care if they were Remain or Leave - that will be history in 2020.
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And William Hague's baseball cap...!isam said:
Both men and women are judged on their appearance, and there are women and men who use their appearance to further their careers.Beverley_C said:
I am not asking for anything. I am just telling you what I and other women I know experience on a daily basis.isam said:
I reckon a few Labour leaders of the past 35 years will dispute that!Beverley_C said:
The difference is that women tend to be judged on their appearance above all else. Competence and ability are a distant second or third place. For men, their sartorial choices generally do not impact how their competence is judged.isam said:It's ok to call Corbyn scruffy, but not ok to comment on the appearance of Rebecca LB?
I'd like to be seen calling that sexist if I were a virtue signaller
It is a far from level playing field.
Foot, Brown, Miliband and Corbyn have all been pilloried for their appearance. As the subject is a potential Labour leader its fair enough, I think it would be sexist to treat a woman differently and I want to be seen signalling that virtue
What you seem to be asking for is affirmative action
But in the field of politics, and specifically Labour leaders, the mild criticism of RLB is nothing to the hammerings that Foot, Brown, Miliband and Corbyn took. It's not even a right vs left thing, I seem to remember there was a poster on here who was fixated with David Camerons hairline, to the point where his avatar was a bald version of the former PM0 -
Ha Mrs C a very one sided view :-)Beverley_C said:
True enough but the emphasis is different. Generalising is always risky but for the sake of brevity.... for a lot of men a women's appearance is the primary (only?) attribute they judge her by.Alanbrooke said:
hmmBeverley_C said:
The difference is that women tend to be judged on their appearance above all else. Competence and ability are a distant second or third place. For men, their sartorial choices generally do not impact how their competence is judged.isam said:It's ok to call Corbyn scruffy, but not ok to comment on the appearance of Rebecca LB?
I'd like to be seen calling that sexist if I were a virtue signaller
It is a far from level playing field.
from experience I'd say womens harshest judges on appearance are other women.
I could fill this thread up with stories of women I know, some of whom run businesses or who are senior in business. The problem exists, be in no doubt about it.
there is nothing blokes dread more than being asked what do they think about what she is planning to wear. Whatever answer you give is the wrong one.
" It makes you look like Angela Merkel " rarely is received in the good humour it was uttered
" not big enough" is not the correct answer to does my bum look big in this
it would look a lot better on her best friend is just suicide
you ladies ask us to walk through a minefield and then condemn us when we blow our feet off
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The main criticism of Brown was that he was a control freak and of Miliband was that he was gaff-prone. Michael Foot was regarded as detached from reality and the "Donkey Jacket" was regarded as proof of that but the main charge against Foot was that he lacked any clue about the real world. It seems to me that Corbyn is simply being treated as Foot mk.IIisam said:
But in the field of politics, and specifically Labour leaders, the mild criticism of RLB is nothing to the hammerings that Foot, Brown, Miliband and Corbyn took. It's not even a right vs left thing, I seem to remember there was a poster on here who was fixated with David Camerons hairline, to the point where his avatar was a bald version of the former PM
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What will cause a recession?The_Taxman said:
Any moderate or centrist candidate will do better in a GE than Corbyn. Lets remember the Tories are led by a charisma free void namely Theresa May. Maybe Labour won't win but they could do markedly better under just about anyone but Corbyn.Beverley_C said:
I think it is almost too late now. Given the length of time it takes for Labour to get a leader in place then get a new team picked, sort out the policies and try to get the public to be able to recognise more than 1 out of 10 faces.Pulpstar said:
The thing is that 2018 comes around and then the "Its too close to a GE to change leader" arguments become ever louder.AlastairMeeks said:The Labour Party can't leave a political corpse in charge for years. They don't have the luxury of that much time.
Is three years enough?
The next election could well be fought in an economic recession, the clock is ticking on that one as economic cycles do not last for ever and Brexit might have negative effects on the economy that amplify any natural pause in growth and pile further pressure on the government.
We are in an artificial economy as it is. Why do you think that Carney wouldn't cut rates further or engage in more QE?0 -
That's a blast from the past. I'd forgotten all about tim's bald Dave avatar. Thanks for reminding me.isam said:
Both men and women are judged on their appearance, and there are women and men who use their appearance to further their careers.Beverley_C said:
I am not asking for anything. I am just telling you what I and other women I know experience on a daily basis.isam said:
I reckon a few Labour leaders of the past 35 years will dispute that!Beverley_C said:
The difference is that women tend to be judged on their appearance above all else. Competence and ability are a distant second or third place. For men, their sartorial choices generally do not impact how their competence is judged.isam said:It's ok to call Corbyn scruffy, but not ok to comment on the appearance of Rebecca LB?
I'd like to be seen calling that sexist if I were a virtue signaller
It is a far from level playing field.
Foot, Brown, Miliband and Corbyn have all been pilloried for their appearance. As the subject is a potential Labour leader its fair enough, I think it would be sexist to treat a woman differently and I want to be seen signalling that virtue
What you seem to be asking for is affirmative action
But in the field of politics, and specifically Labour leaders, the mild criticism of RLB is nothing to the hammerings that Foot, Brown, Miliband and Corbyn took. It's not even a right vs left thing, I seem to remember there was a poster on here who was fixated with David Camerons hairline, to the point where his avatar was a bald version of the former PM0 -
I fully expect Brexit to take at least 5 years to enact so all this talk of a "shambles" shows the authors don't live in the real world as far as economics is concerned.Beverley_C said:
My personal suspicion is that it will take a leader or two to clear up Corbyn's mess. On the Tory side, Mrs May does not fill me with confidence. I understand that she is in a difficult position with limited room to manoeuvre but I do not feel that she has a grip on her party. Then again, does any Tory PM?The_Taxman said:Any moderate or centrist candidate will do better in a GE than Corbyn. Lets remember the Tories are led by a charisma free void namely Theresa May. Maybe Labour won't win but they could do markedly better under just about anyone but Corbyn.
I fully expect Brexit to be a shambles. I am just hoping that it holds off until 2018 or 2019...The_Taxman said:The next election could well be fought in an economic recession, the clock is ticking on that one as economic cycles do not last for ever and Brexit might have negative effects on the economy that amplify any natural pause in growth and pile further pressure on the government.
It takes at least 5 years to negotiate a trade treaty so Brexit will take at least 5 years...0 -
You didn't look very hardpeter_from_putney said:Surprisingly, there are no betting markets on the year in which Corbyn ceases to be Labour leader. Come on Shadsy, do your stuff!
https://sports.ladbrokes.com/en-gb/betting/politics/british/next-party-leaders/jeremy-corbyn-specials/220951066/
http://sports.williamhill.com/bet/en-gb/betting/e/8188335/When+Will+Jeremy+Corbyn+Leave+The+Post+Of+Labour+Leader.html
http://www.paddypower.com/bet/politics/other-politics/uk-politics?ev_oc_grp_ids=2602889
https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/#/politics/market/1.1206290150 -
The only person I can think of who might fit the bill is Alan Johnson. He might fail on being left-wing enough but is a reasonably well-respected figure (even by a right-winger like me) and has Cabinet experience.SandyRentool said:I would like us to go in to the next election with a manifesto to the left of that offered by EdM and lead by someone who looks like a PM in waiting. And I don't care if they were Remain or Leave - that will be history in 2020.
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I have every sympathy with you. [WARNING: Advice alert] Just tell her she looks fabulous and look like you mean it. Even if you do notAlanbrooke said:
Ha Mrs C a very one sided view :-)
there is nothing blokes dread more than being asked what do they think about what she is planning to wear. Whatever answer you give is the wrong one.
" It makes you look like Angela Merkel " rarely is received in the good humour it was uttered
" not big enough" is not the correct answer to does my bum look big in this
it would look a lot better on her best friend is just suicide
you ladies ask us to walk through a minefield and then condemn us when we blow our feet off
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Well it's been the basis if Labour campaigns for many a yearBeverley_C said:
That is not a policy position. That is a desperate hope, or possibly special pleading.Charles said:How long does it take to sort out "not the Tories" as a policy position?
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I don't unless they criticise others getting naked as being sexist then there is no hypocrisy.nunu said:
This is right. Although I have to scoff at women like Charlie Theron who complain about sexism but will get naked for a perfume ad.Beverley_C said:
The difference is that women tend to be judged on their appearance above all else. Competence and ability are a distant second or third place. For men, their sartorial choices generally do not impact how their competence is judged.isam said:It's ok to call Corbyn scruffy, but not ok to comment on the appearance of Rebecca LB?
I'd like to be seen calling that sexist if I were a virtue signaller
It is a far from level playing field.
I view sexism to be something done TO someone who was unwilling. If Theron (or David Beckham as a male alternative) is willing to get naked for money then that is their choice and free will.
That doesn't justify or excuse unwarranted abuse.
The problem is people being to quick to label anything they dislike an ism and this watering down its meaning. I don't like Page 3, I think it is tacky and puerile. But as long as the women there are willing participants I would not call it sexism.0 -
Lol - anecdote rules ok? When you're in a hole best to stop digging.Beverley_C said:
True enough but the emphasis is different. Generalising is always risky but for the sake of brevity.... for a lot of men a women's appearance is the primary (only?) attribute they judge her by.Alanbrooke said:
hmmBeverley_C said:
The difference is that women tend to be judged on their appearance above all else. Competence and ability are a distant second or third place. For men, their sartorial choices generally do not impact how their competence is judged.isam said:It's ok to call Corbyn scruffy, but not ok to comment on the appearance of Rebecca LB?
I'd like to be seen calling that sexist if I were a virtue signaller
It is a far from level playing field.
from experience I'd say womens harshest judges on appearance are other women.
I could fill this thread up with stories of women I know, some of whom run businesses or who are senior in business. The problem exists, be in no doubt about it.0 -
Anyway, as an independent, powerful, business-running woman, I have a Sunday dinner to sort out including a chocolate madeira pudding with creme anglaise...0
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If Alan Johnson is the answer I must be asking the wrong question!Essexit said:
The only person I can think of who might fit the bill is Alan Johnson. He might fail on being left-wing enough but is a reasonably well-respected figure (even by a right-winger like me) and has Cabinet experience.SandyRentool said:I would like us to go in to the next election with a manifesto to the left of that offered by EdM and lead by someone who looks like a PM in waiting. And I don't care if they were Remain or Leave - that will be history in 2020.
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The photos of a rotund Cameron coming out of the water was splashed across most of front pages of the newspapers with unflattering comments. I seem to remember the photographer earned a pretty penny out of them.isam said:
Both men and women are judged on their appearance, and there are women and men who use their appearance to further their careers.Beverley_C said:
I am not asking for anything. I am just telling you what I and other women I know experience on a daily basis.isam said:
I reckon a few Labour leaders of the past 35 years will dispute that!Beverley_C said:
The difference is that women tend to be judged on their appearance above all else. Competence and ability are a distant second or third place. For men, their sartorial choices generally do not impact how their competence is judged.isam said:It's ok to call Corbyn scruffy, but not ok to comment on the appearance of Rebecca LB?
I'd like to be seen calling that sexist if I were a virtue signaller
It is a far from level playing field.
Foot, Brown, Miliband and Corbyn have all been pilloried for their appearance. As the subject is a potential Labour leader its fair enough, I think it would be sexist to treat a woman differently and I want to be seen signalling that virtue
What you seem to be asking for is affirmative action
But in the field of politics, and specifically Labour leaders, the mild criticism of RLB is nothing to the hammerings that Foot, Brown, Miliband and Corbyn took. It's not even a right vs left thing, I seem to remember there was a poster on here who was fixated with David Camerons hairline, to the point where his avatar was a bald version of the former PM0 -
Pay attention 007. I said I could supply the anecdotes ....felix said:
Lol - anecdote rules ok? When you're in a hole best to stop digging.0 -
...and don't forget to clean behind the fridge! ☺Beverley_C said:Anyway, as an independent, powerful, business-running woman, I have a Sunday dinner to sort out including a chocolate madeira pudding with creme anglaise...
0 -
Shockng indeed. What's Merkel doing dressed in LibDem yellow ?!?!Theuniondivvie said:They obviously have different parliamentary 'conventions' in Germany.
https://twitter.com/philipoltermann/status/8308024252379258880 -
Wonder if Nige's new roomy is busy doing that this weekend?SandyRentool said:
...and don't forget to clean behind the fridge! ☺Beverley_C said:Anyway, as an independent, powerful, business-running woman, I have a Sunday dinner to sort out including a chocolate madeira pudding with creme anglaise...
0 -
On Topic: Jeremy Corbyn has recognition. If his replacement were called Angela whatsername or Owen who was that even if such a selection were possible they would have problems getting known.
Off Topic. Without looking it up name as many candidates who are standing in the two forthcoming by-elections as you can.
Just saying ...0 -
just served mine boeuf bourgignonBeverley_C said:Anyway, as an independent, powerful, business-running woman, I have a Sunday dinner to sort out including a chocolate madeira pudding with creme anglaise...
two ladies with an attack of the munchies as eldest daughter was out on her hen night last night
wedding in April, so every day i get asked my opinion on something only to be told it's the wrong one0 -
That would be Starmer.SandyRentool said:I would like us to go in to the next election with a manifesto to the left of that offered by EdM and lead by someone who looks like a PM in waiting. And I don't care if they were Remain or Leave - that will be history in 2020.
0 -
Appearance is very important, for men and women, in politics and out of it. How a person chooses to dress says a lot about them as a person. A person on the receiving end, be it an interviewer in job recruitment, or a voter watching a politician on television (which is probably the same thing but at a longer distance) is entitled to take that information into account.isam said:
Both men and women are judged on their appearance, and there are women and men who use their appearance to further their careers.Beverley_C said:
I am not asking for anything. I am just telling you what I and other women I know experience on a daily basis.isam said:
I reckon a few Labour leaders of the past 35 years will dispute that!Beverley_C said:
The difference is that women tend to be judged on their appearance above all else. Competence and ability are a distant second or third place. For men, their sartorial choices generally do not impact how their competence is judged.isam said:It's ok to call Corbyn scruffy, but not ok to comment on the appearance of Rebecca LB?
I'd like to be seen calling that sexist if I were a virtue signaller
It is a far from level playing field.
Foot, Brown, Miliband and Corbyn have all been pilloried for their appearance. As the subject is a potential Labour leader its fair enough, I think it would be sexist to treat a woman differently and I want to be seen signalling that virtue
What you seem to be asking for is affirmative action
But in the field of politics, and specifically Labour leaders, the mild criticism of RLB is nothing to the hammerings that Foot, Brown, Miliband and Corbyn took. It's not even a right vs left thing, I seem to remember there was a poster on here who was fixated with David Camerons hairline, to the point where his avatar was a bald version of the former PM
Mrs. C's point seems to be that for many ladies appearance has a much greater importance than for male applicants. In my experience that is not true, though I would concede that ladies, on the whole, take more care about their appearance on formal occasions (e.g. interviews).
For the very little it's worth, the only politician whose dress I have complained about was Gordon Brown. He usually looked like a sack of shit tied in the middle, he couldn't tie his tie and his suits always seemed to have been bought for someone else who was much smaller than he was. Someone on here once posted that Brown's tailor was Gieves and Hawkes, a fact that as far as I know that firm never confirmed for obvious reasons.0 -
Thanks for that - I was relying on Oddschecker, not always a good ideaIanB2 said:
Betfair has a complete marketpeter_from_putney said:Surprisingly, there are no betting markets on the year in which Corbyn ceases to be Labour leader. Come on Shadsy, do your stuff!
Based on SO's expectation on Corbyn quitting the Labour leadership after the locals next year, Betfair's backing odds are 18.0 for Apr - June 18 and 17.5 for July - Sept 18 (i.e. taking in the Party conference). Hence one can cover the 6 months Apr - Sept 18 to achieve combined decimal odds of 8.87. That looks like fair value to me but DYOR.0 -
Those two levers are connected to asset values not the real economy.Charles said:
What will cause a recession?The_Taxman said:
Any moderate or centrist candidate will do better in a GE than Corbyn. Lets remember the Tories are led by a charisma free void namely Theresa May. Maybe Labour won't win but they could do markedly better under just about anyone but Corbyn.Beverley_C said:
I think it is almost too late now. Given the length of time it takes for Labour to get a leader in place then get a new team picked, sort out the policies and try to get the public to be able to recognise more than 1 out of 10 faces.Pulpstar said:
The thing is that 2018 comes around and then the "Its too close to a GE to change leader" arguments become ever louder.AlastairMeeks said:The Labour Party can't leave a political corpse in charge for years. They don't have the luxury of that much time.
Is three years enough?
The next election could well be fought in an economic recession, the clock is ticking on that one as economic cycles do not last for ever and Brexit might have negative effects on the economy that amplify any natural pause in growth and pile further pressure on the government.
We are in an artificial economy as it is. Why do you think that Carney wouldn't cut rates further or engage in more QE?
No more boom and bust? That rings a bell.0 -
What will cause a recession?Charles said:
What will cause a recession?The_Taxman said:
Any moderate or centrist candidate will do better in a GE than Corbyn. Lets remember the Tories are led by a charisma free void namely Theresa May. Maybe Labour won't win but they could do markedly better under just about anyone but Corbyn.Beverley_C said:
I think it is almost too late now. Given the length of time it takes for Labour to get a leader in place then get a new team picked, sort out the policies and try to get the public to be able to recognise more than 1 out of 10 faces.Pulpstar said:
The thing is that 2018 comes around and then the "Its too close to a GE to change leader" arguments become ever louder.AlastairMeeks said:The Labour Party can't leave a political corpse in charge for years. They don't have the luxury of that much time.
Is three years enough?
The next election could well be fought in an economic recession, the clock is ticking on that one as economic cycles do not last for ever and Brexit might have negative effects on the economy that amplify any natural pause in growth and pile further pressure on the government.
We are in an artificial economy as it is. Why do you think that Carney wouldn't cut rates further or engage in more QE?
The natural trade cycle.
Carney or his successor will have difficulty cutting interest rates more due to their present low rates. Sure QE could be induced but if a naturally occurring recession comes along it will be like trying to urinate on a forest fire and as ineffective. Maybe the depreciation in sterling will sufficiently stimulate the economy to keep a recession at bay until 2020 but as I say 10 years of growth, all be it fairly slow growth in the historical context usually points toward recession.
0 -
Gieves and Hawkes stopped being a proper tailor generations back - when they merged, actually. Their main bag is overpriced off the peg stuff. I find it very credible that they dressed Brown.HurstLlama said:
Appearance is very important, for men and women, in politics and out of it. How a person chooses to dress says a lot about them as a person. A person on the receiving end, be it an interviewer in job recruitment, or a voter watching a politician on television (which is probably the same thing but at a longer distance) is entitled to take that information into account.isam said:
Both men and women are judged on their appearance, and there are women and men who use their appearance to further their careers.Beverley_C said:
I am not asking for anything. I am just telling you what I and other women I know experience on a daily basis.isam said:
I reckon a few Labour leaders of the past 35 years will dispute that!Beverley_C said:
The difference is that women tend to be judged on their appearance above all else. Competence and ability are a distant second or third place. For men, their sartorial choices generally do not impact how their competence is judged.isam said:It's ok to call Corbyn scruffy, but not ok to comment on the appearance of Rebecca LB?
I'd like to be seen calling that sexist if I were a virtue signaller
It is a far from level playing field.
Foot, Brown, Miliband and Corbyn have all been pilloried for their appearance. As the subject is a potential Labour leader its fair enough, I think it would be sexist to treat a woman differently and I want to be seen signalling that virtue
What you seem to be asking for is affirmative action
But former PM
Mrs. C's point seems to be that for many ladies appearance has a much greater importance than for male applicants. In my experience that is not true, though I would concede that ladies, on the whole, take more care about their appearance on formal occasions (e.g. interviews).
For the very little it's worth, the only politician whose dress I have complained about was Gordon Brown. He usually looked like a sack of shit tied in the middle, he couldn't tie his tie and his suits always seemed to have been bought for someone else who was much smaller than he was. Someone on here once posted that Brown's tailor was Gieves and Hawkes, a fact that as far as I know that firm never confirmed for obvious reasons.0 -
Corbyn has name recognition because he is Leader of the Opposition. Until then he'd spent decades in Parliament and outside political anorak circles (and often within them) name him and he'd be "Jeremy Who?"View_From_Cumbria said:On Topic: Jeremy Corbyn has recognition. If his replacement were called Angela whatsername or Owen who was that even if such a selection were possible they would have problems getting known.
Off Topic. Without looking it up name as many candidates who are standing in the two forthcoming by-elections as you can.
Just saying ...
If Owen whatshisname had won the leadership election then by now he'd have recognition. It comes with the job not with talent.0 -
0
-
Police open fraud inquiry into 'mismanagement' at evangelical church
Rufus was a leading member of the KICC whose “founder, visionary and senior pastor” is Matthew Ashimolowo, a Nigerian evangelist who preaches a “health and wealth” gospel to a congregation of thousands at his “Prayer Palace” in Kent. The largely African and Caribbean churchgoers are urged to give regular tithes and the church collected £5.8m from them in 2015, according to the latest accounts.
In 2009 and 2010 the trustees agreed to give Rufus £5m to invest after he promised them returns of 55% a year at a time when interest rates were less than 1%.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/feb/12/kicc-kingsway-christian-centre-fraud-inquiry-richard-rufus0 -
It's not OK to abuse someone if they choose to get naked. But many women complain (including Theron) they are judged on their sexuality and looks whilst at the same time using those things to get ahead and earn money.Philip_Thompson said:
I don't unless they criticise others getting naked as being sexist then there is no hypocrisy.nunu said:
This is right. Although I have to scoff at women like Charlie Theron who complain about sexism but will get naked for a perfume ad.Beverley_C said:
The difference is that women tend to be judged on their appearance above all else. Competence and ability are a distant second or third place. For men, their sartorial choices generally do not impact how their competence is judged.isam said:It's ok to call Corbyn scruffy, but not ok to comment on the appearance of Rebecca LB?
I'd like to be seen calling that sexist if I were a virtue signaller
It is a far from level playing field.
I view sexism to be something done TO someone who was unwilling. If Theron (or David Beckham as a male alternative) is willing to get naked for money then that is their choice and free will.
That doesn't justify or excuse unwarranted abuse.
The problem is people being to quick to label anything they dislike an ism and this watering down its meaning. I don't like Page 3, I think it is tacky and puerile. But as long as the women there are willing participants I would not call it sexism.0 -
Which isn't hypocritical. One is being controlled, the other is not.nunu said:
It's not OK to abuse someone if they choose to get naked. But many women complain (including Theron) they are judged on their sexuality and looks whilst at the same time using those things to get ahead and earn money.Philip_Thompson said:
I don't unless they criticise others getting naked as being sexist then there is no hypocrisy.nunu said:
This is right. Although I have to scoff at women like Charlie Theron who complain about sexism but will get naked for a perfume ad.Beverley_C said:
The difference is that women tend to be judged on their appearance above all else. Competence and ability are a distant second or third place. For men, their sartorial choices generally do not impact how their competence is judged.isam said:It's ok to call Corbyn scruffy, but not ok to comment on the appearance of Rebecca LB?
I'd like to be seen calling that sexist if I were a virtue signaller
It is a far from level playing field.
I view sexism to be something done TO someone who was unwilling. If Theron (or David Beckham as a male alternative) is willing to get naked for money then that is their choice and free will.
That doesn't justify or excuse unwarranted abuse.
The problem is people being to quick to label anything they dislike an ism and this watering down its meaning. I don't like Page 3, I think it is tacky and puerile. But as long as the women there are willing participants I would not call it sexism.
It's the difference between telling a woman her place is in the kitchen - and a woman choosing to cook.0 -
"I've always liked that one"Alanbrooke said:
Ha Mrs C a very one sided view :-)Beverley_C said:
True enough but the emphasis is different. Generalising is always risky but for the sake of brevity.... for a lot of men a women's appearance is the primary (only?) attribute they judge her by.Alanbrooke said:
hmmBeverley_C said:
The difference is that women tend to be judged on their appearance above all else. Competence and ability are a distant second or third place. For men, their sartorial choices generally do not impact how their competence is judged.isam said:It's ok to call Corbyn scruffy, but not ok to comment on the appearance of Rebecca LB?
I'd like to be seen calling that sexist if I were a virtue signaller
It is a far from level playing field.
from experience I'd say womens harshest judges on appearance are other women.
I could fill this thread up with stories of women I know, some of whom run businesses or who are senior in business. The problem exists, be in no doubt about it.
there is nothing blokes dread more than being asked what do they think about what she is planning to wear. Whatever answer you give is the wrong one.
" It makes you look like Angela Merkel " rarely is received in the good humour it was uttered
" not big enough" is not the correct answer to does my bum look big in this
it would look a lot better on her best friend is just suicide
you ladies ask us to walk through a minefield and then condemn us when we blow our feet off
"Hasn't it worn well" and
"Clever of you to find all that material " ....also not recommended0 -
I agree. Without name recognition there is no way Tim Fallon would now be leading the Lib Dems.View_From_Cumbria said:On Topic: Jeremy Corbyn has recognition. If his replacement were called Angela whatsername or Owen who was that even if such a selection were possible they would have problems getting known.
Off Topic. Without looking it up name as many candidates who are standing in the two forthcoming by-elections as you can.
Just saying ...0 -
And what's the German football team manager doing in the picture too? Bloke with dark brown hair on the left), I think.JackW said:
Shockng indeed. What's Merkel doing dressed in LibDem yellow ?!?!Theuniondivvie said:They obviously have different parliamentary 'conventions' in Germany.
https://twitter.com/philipoltermann/status/8308024252379258880 -
Good evening, everyone.
Shame Scotland couldn't quite beat France. Intriguing game to watch, though.0 -
But he was a dab hand with the makeup.HurstLlama said:For the very little it's worth, the only politician whose dress I have complained about was Gordon Brown. He usually looked like a sack of shit tied in the middle, he couldn't tie his tie and his suits always seemed to have been bought for someone else who was much smaller than he was. Someone on here once posted that Brown's tailor was Gieves and Hawkes, a fact that as far as I know that firm never confirmed for obvious reasons.
0 -
Tricky to get 55% in a year on that size, not sure Ladbrokes would lay that for Labour in Stoke. Property bridging loans skipping the middleman might be able to get 25 - 30%, which would work for the size. Of course capital is most definitely at risk when 55% is given as a return.FrancisUrquhart said:Police open fraud inquiry into 'mismanagement' at evangelical church
Rufus was a leading member of the KICC whose “founder, visionary and senior pastor” is Matthew Ashimolowo, a Nigerian evangelist who preaches a “health and wealth” gospel to a congregation of thousands at his “Prayer Palace” in Kent. The largely African and Caribbean churchgoers are urged to give regular tithes and the church collected £5.8m from them in 2015, according to the latest accounts.
In 2009 and 2010 the trustees agreed to give Rufus £5m to invest after he promised them returns of 55% a year at a time when interest rates were less than 1%.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/feb/12/kicc-kingsway-christian-centre-fraud-inquiry-richard-rufus
I rather expect the "investments" were on wine, women and song rather than anything tangible.0 -
Rebecca Long-Bailey appeared to be attacked as a brassy barmaid type because she chooses smart feminine styles (and is very well presented). It would be unusual to see a male politician attacked for being too smart. As it is, I think RBL is a lousy leadership candidate as she has too little experience - I just found the dismissing of her as a barmaid type "who should be pulling pints in the Rovers' Return" a bit cringeworthy.0
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Have to say, having voted for him last year, I think it's time for Corbyn to go. The experiment has been given long enough, and it's not working.0
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You beat me to it, Mr W. I was minded to enquire "who's that clown in the yellow jacket?"JackW said:
Shockng indeed. What's Merkel doing dressed in LibDem yellow ?!?!Theuniondivvie said:They obviously have different parliamentary 'conventions' in Germany.
https://twitter.com/philipoltermann/status/8308024252379258880 -
And there was me thinking he was defence secretary...Ishmael_Z said:
I agree. Without name recognition there is no way Tim Fallon would now be leading the Lib Dems.View_From_Cumbria said:On Topic: Jeremy Corbyn has recognition. If his replacement were called Angela whatsername or Owen who was that even if such a selection were possible they would have problems getting known.
Off Topic. Without looking it up name as many candidates who are standing in the two forthcoming by-elections as you can.
Just saying ...-1 -
Sadly, all the 3 best "unity" candidates have tarnished themselves in the past 18 months: Harman by indicating the Labour "centrists" had no red-lines whatsoever with her Welfare Bill fiasco, Benn with supporting the Syria air strikes (not an issue for me personally, but an absolute heresy for even the most swingy of Corbynistas) and Johnson with his pathetic performance in the EU campaign.SandyRentool said:
If Alan Johnson is the answer I must be asking the wrong question!Essexit said:
The only person I can think of who might fit the bill is Alan Johnson. He might fail on being left-wing enough but is a reasonably well-respected figure (even by a right-winger like me) and has Cabinet experience.SandyRentool said:I would like us to go in to the next election with a manifesto to the left of that offered by EdM and lead by someone who looks like a PM in waiting. And I don't care if they were Remain or Leave - that will be history in 2020.
0 -
I didn't read the whole prior thread so may have missed those comments but the bulk of comments I did see were simply referring to a car crash interview with Andrew Neil - for which many male MPs have had the exact same treatment.Jobabob said:Rebecca Long-Bailey appeared to be attacked as a brassy barmaid type because she chooses smart feminine styles (and is very well presented). It would be unusual to see a male politician attacked for being too smart. As it is, I think RBL is a lousy leadership candidate as she has too little experience - I just found the dismissing of her as a barmaid type "who should be pulling pints in the Rovers' Return" a bit cringeworthy.
0 -
and missing the point...TudorRose said:
And there was me thinking he was defence secretary...Ishmael_Z said:
I agree. Without name recognition there is no way Tim Fallon would now be leading the Lib Dems.View_From_Cumbria said:On Topic: Jeremy Corbyn has recognition. If his replacement were called Angela whatsername or Owen who was that even if such a selection were possible they would have problems getting known.
Off Topic. Without looking it up name as many candidates who are standing in the two forthcoming by-elections as you can.
Just saying ...0 -
Who's the man in drag in front of the lady with the orange hair?JackW said:
Shockng indeed. What's Merkel doing dressed in LibDem yellow ?!?!Theuniondivvie said:They obviously have different parliamentary 'conventions' in Germany.
https://twitter.com/philipoltermann/status/8308024252379258880 -
Considering the fact that Michael Fallon is the Defence Secretary I think he got the point ...Ishmael_Z said:
and missing the point...TudorRose said:
And there was me thinking he was defence secretary...Ishmael_Z said:
I agree. Without name recognition there is no way Tim Fallon would now be leading the Lib Dems.View_From_Cumbria said:On Topic: Jeremy Corbyn has recognition. If his replacement were called Angela whatsername or Owen who was that even if such a selection were possible they would have problems getting known.
Off Topic. Without looking it up name as many candidates who are standing in the two forthcoming by-elections as you can.
Just saying ...0 -
Recognition is Corbyn's problem - they know him and they don't like him.View_From_Cumbria said:On Topic: Jeremy Corbyn has recognition. If his replacement were called Angela whatsername or Owen who was that even if such a selection were possible they would have problems getting known.
Off Topic. Without looking it up name as many candidates who are standing in the two forthcoming by-elections as you can.
Just saying ...0 -
Some were, some weren't.Philip_Thompson said:
I didn't read the whole prior thread so may have missed those comments but the bulk of comments I did see were simply referring to a car crash interview with Andrew Neil - for which many male MPs have had the exact same treatment.Jobabob said:Rebecca Long-Bailey appeared to be attacked as a brassy barmaid type because she chooses smart feminine styles (and is very well presented). It would be unusual to see a male politician attacked for being too smart. As it is, I think RBL is a lousy leadership candidate as she has too little experience - I just found the dismissing of her as a barmaid type "who should be pulling pints in the Rovers' Return" a bit cringeworthy.
0 -
That's just it. This idea that somehow Corbyn is better than the alternatives is mad. As is often noted on this forum @Pulpstar 's cat is more electable.felix said:
Recognition is Corbyn's problem - they know him and they don't like him.View_From_Cumbria said:On Topic: Jeremy Corbyn has recognition. If his replacement were called Angela whatsername or Owen who was that even if such a selection were possible they would have problems getting known.
Off Topic. Without looking it up name as many candidates who are standing in the two forthcoming by-elections as you can.
Just saying ...0 -
Pie thinks he gets it, but doesn't think the Lib Dems do, or Labour, or the Tories (Must be a closet kipper!)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkJs-tK2vak
0 -
Mr. Indigo, his very name is 50% of Kipper.0
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Some being most or a minority?Jobabob said:
Some were, some weren't.Philip_Thompson said:
I didn't read the whole prior thread so may have missed those comments but the bulk of comments I did see were simply referring to a car crash interview with Andrew Neil - for which many male MPs have had the exact same treatment.Jobabob said:Rebecca Long-Bailey appeared to be attacked as a brassy barmaid type because she chooses smart feminine styles (and is very well presented). It would be unusual to see a male politician attacked for being too smart. As it is, I think RBL is a lousy leadership candidate as she has too little experience - I just found the dismissing of her as a barmaid type "who should be pulling pints in the Rovers' Return" a bit cringeworthy.
0 -
Telling a woman her place is in the kitchen is one thing. The defining question is whether you would care to eat what she cooks.Philip_Thompson said:
Which isn't hypocritical. One is being controlled, the other is not.nunu said:
It's not OK to abuse someone if they choose to get naked. But many women complain (including Theron) they are judged on their sexuality and looks whilst at the same time using those things to get ahead and earn money.Philip_Thompson said:
I don't unless they criticise others getting naked as being sexist then there is no hypocrisy.nunu said:
This is right. Although I have to scoff at women like Charlie Theron who complain about sexism but will get naked for a perfume ad.Beverley_C said:
The difference is that women tend to be judged on their appearance above all else. Competence and ability are a distant second or third place. For men, their sartorial choices generally do not impact how their competence is judged.isam said:It's ok to call Corbyn scruffy, but not ok to comment on the appearance of Rebecca LB?
I'd like to be seen calling that sexist if I were a virtue signaller
It is a far from level playing field.
I view sexism to be something done TO someone who was unwilling. If Theron (or David Beckham as a male alternative) is willing to get naked for money then that is their choice and free will.
That doesn't justify or excuse unwarranted abuse.
The problem is people being to quick to label anything they dislike an ism and this watering down its meaning. I don't like Page 3, I think it is tacky and puerile. But as long as the women there are willing participants I would not call it sexism.
It's the difference between telling a woman her place is in the kitchen - and a woman choosing to cook.
Good evening, everyone.0 -
Read the thread yourself if you like and do your own audit!Philip_Thompson said:
Some being most or a minority?Jobabob said:
Some were, some weren't.Philip_Thompson said:
I didn't read the whole prior thread so may have missed those comments but the bulk of comments I did see were simply referring to a car crash interview with Andrew Neil - for which many male MPs have had the exact same treatment.Jobabob said:Rebecca Long-Bailey appeared to be attacked as a brassy barmaid type because she chooses smart feminine styles (and is very well presented). It would be unusual to see a male politician attacked for being too smart. As it is, I think RBL is a lousy leadership candidate as she has too little experience - I just found the dismissing of her as a barmaid type "who should be pulling pints in the Rovers' Return" a bit cringeworthy.
0 -
On topic...
Corbyn and his allies don't consider national government to be important so it would be misleading to expect them to behave as if they did. They are engaged in a long-term cultural struggle to make the harbouring of right-wing ideas physically impossible, aided and abetted by the BBC, social media and "educators" among others.
When Tories start spouting SJW drivel we will realise Corbyn has prevailed, much as Farage won his own battle without a bullet being fired. Labour agitators in the 70s used to talk about "scaling the commanding heights of the economy", but in the 21st century the commanding heights are in people's minds.0 -
UK General Elections 2010 and 2015 seemed to be opportunities to get a good, almost certain return in a day or so. We need more GEs!Pulpstar said:
Tricky to get 55% in a year on that size, not sure Ladbrokes would lay that for Labour in Stoke. Property bridging loans skipping the middleman might be able to get 25 - 30%, which would work for the size. Of course capital is most definitely at risk when 55% is given as a return.FrancisUrquhart said:Police open fraud inquiry into 'mismanagement' at evangelical church
Rufus was a leading member of the KICC whose “founder, visionary and senior pastor” is Matthew Ashimolowo, a Nigerian evangelist who preaches a “health and wealth” gospel to a congregation of thousands at his “Prayer Palace” in Kent. The largely African and Caribbean churchgoers are urged to give regular tithes and the church collected £5.8m from them in 2015, according to the latest accounts.
In 2009 and 2010 the trustees agreed to give Rufus £5m to invest after he promised them returns of 55% a year at a time when interest rates were less than 1%.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/feb/12/kicc-kingsway-christian-centre-fraud-inquiry-richard-rufus
I rather expect the "investments" were on wine, women and song rather than anything tangible.
BTW there's just been a profile of Bercow on R4, giving an account of his move from hard right to liberal left. Is he angling for the LibDem or Labour leadership?0 -
The big question is: would Theresa May prefer to continue to have a majority of 12 in the House of Commons, or would she like to have one between 50 and 100? If it's the latter, she calls an election this year while Corbyn is still in place. But she might prefer to have a small majority.0
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"Joff Wild? I was absolutely livid!"0
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No, that's Michael Farron!TudorRose said:
And there was me thinking he was defence secretary...Ishmael_Z said:
I agree. Without name recognition there is no way Tim Fallon would now be leading the Lib Dems.View_From_Cumbria said:On Topic: Jeremy Corbyn has recognition. If his replacement were called Angela whatsername or Owen who was that even if such a selection were possible they would have problems getting known.
Off Topic. Without looking it up name as many candidates who are standing in the two forthcoming by-elections as you can.
Just saying ...
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There is an argument that the percentage of MPs and MEPs should be increased not diminished. What the fiasco of Corbyn has shown is that a leader who does not have the support of the majority of the PLP is a disaster who cannot create or maintain a shadow cabinet of any stability or substance, incapable of offering ideas or leadership that amounts to a credible alternative to even the weakest government.
Another left wing leadership candidate would not solve any of the problems Corbyn has caused. He is not the problem, he is merely a particularly unpleasant symptom of the problem.0
