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edited January 2017 in General

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  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 124,642
    Crossbackover nearly in the Stoke betting on Betfair.
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,624
    One of the easier guess the author from the title threads. Saves wasted time reading at least.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 56,500
    One thousand years from now, there won't be any LEAVERS and there won't be any REMAINERS, just wankers. Sounds all right to me.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 124,642
    On topic, I feel sorry for Mrs May, she's stuck between a rock and a hard place.

    To paraphrase Harold Wilson, you don't kick your biggest ally in the nuts.
  • JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807
    The_Apocalypse

    FPT

    Yes the term 'virtue signalling' is a moron detector*, as is 'outrage bus' – DavidL is an excellent, thoughtful centre right poster normally hence why I was so surprised he used the term.

    *h/t @TSE
  • StonchStonch Posts: 43
    This article perfectly well written but the content is entirely driven by hope rather than reality. I'm sorry to get personal - but then this article is written by an individual who relentlessly pursues the same approach here, and it's above the line, so fair to comment on his motivations I feel. Alastair Meeks desperately want to be proven right on his entire world view, even to the extent of others suffering. It's a belief system thing for him: belief in himself. It doesn't serve much purpose on a betting site to have someone like that writing header article.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 26,067
    Mr Meeks. you're probably about the only person on this planet who could make me vote UKIP
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,346
    Alanbrooke said:

    Mr Meeks. you're probably about the only person on this planet who could make me vote UKIP

    No need...

    https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/824728866375790592
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 124,642
    Alanbrooke said:

    Mr Meeks. you're probably about the only person on this planet who could make me vote UKIP

    George says hello.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 40,054
    Yep, Tory hard Brexit has tied us to Trump. As a result, we have to give him what he wants. That's how in control we are.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 26,067
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Alanbrooke said:

    Mr Meeks. you're probably about the only person on this planet who could make me vote UKIP

    George says hello.
    No even with boy George I didnt, I just spoilt my vote with some appropriate comments about the CoE
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 26,067
    williamglenn said:

    Alanbrooke said:

    Mr Meeks. you're probably about the only person on this planet who could make me vote UKIP

    No need...

    https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/824728866375790592

    George Formby tweets under that name
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    maaarsh said:

    One of the easier guess the author from the title threads. Saves wasted time reading at least.

    There was a lot of scrolling action required to get past it all though.
    Must have taken ages to type out all that bile.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    Have to admit I agree with this article. I was pretty indifferent to the whole EU issue throughout the referendum campaign, came very close to voting Leave, and after the result didn't pay much attention to the people who were saying Brexit would be a disaster.

    But Trump's changed everything, for me. It's quite clear now that what we're currently stumbling into is relying on a fascist pig (and let's face it, as bad as the current immigration ban is, he's going to go much further than this in future if he doesn't feel any negative consequences this time), who, because of the so-called "free trade deal" we're supposedly going to have to strike with him, will take Britain for a ride, giving American corporations the power to destroy British jobs and our NHS.
  • midwintermidwinter Posts: 1,112
    SouthamObserver said:

    Yep, Tory hard Brexit has tied us to Trump. As a result, we have to give him what he wants. That's how in control we are.

    As you said yourself on many occasions the referendum became one on immigration as much as EU membership. That being the case and faced with the intractability of the EU what options did May have? Assuming one believes in democracy she is simply following the will of the people deranged and asinine as it may be. To describe it as Tory hard Brexit is rather unfair as many Tories oppose it and in the same breath many on the left support it.
  • isamisam Posts: 42,961
    GeoffM said:

    maaarsh said:

    One of the easier guess the author from the title threads. Saves wasted time reading at least.

    There was a lot of scrolling action required to get past it all though.
    Must have taken ages to type out all that bile.
    I never read them! Now I am tempted!!
  • PongPong Posts: 4,693
    fpt;

    https://dominiccummings.files.wordpress.com/2017/01/20170130-referendum-22-numbers.pdf

    "The most successful ad with almost all demographics all the way through was a variation on £350m/NHS that AIQ did early on and we never could beat it."

    The referendum was won on £350m/week extra for the NHS.

    That's what Theresa has to deliver to make brexit a success.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    Pong said:

    fpt;

    https://dominiccummings.files.wordpress.com/2017/01/20170130-referendum-22-numbers.pdf

    "The most successful ad with almost all demographics all the way through was a variation on £350m/NHS that AIQ did early on and we never could beat it."

    The referendum was won on £350m/week extra for the NHS.

    That's what Theresa has to deliver to make brexit a success.

    Instead, she's planning to offer up the NHS on a plate to American corporations.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 26,067
    Danny565 said:

    Pong said:

    fpt;

    https://dominiccummings.files.wordpress.com/2017/01/20170130-referendum-22-numbers.pdf

    "The most successful ad with almost all demographics all the way through was a variation on £350m/NHS that AIQ did early on and we never could beat it."

    The referendum was won on £350m/week extra for the NHS.

    That's what Theresa has to deliver to make brexit a success.

    Instead, she's planning to offer up the NHS on a plate to American corporations.
    so was the EU
  • NewsTakerNewsTaker Posts: 89
    Oh yes another prediction on the current state of play from AlastairM.

    AlastairMeeks "I continue to expect a clear win for Remain. I predicted 60:40 at the start of the year and that still looks entirely possible to me. "
  • isamisam Posts: 42,961
    midwinter said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    Yep, Tory hard Brexit has tied us to Trump. As a result, we have to give him what he wants. That's how in control we are.

    As you said yourself on many occasions the referendum became one on immigration as much as EU membership. That being the case and faced with the intractability of the EU what options did May have? Assuming one believes in democracy she is simply following the will of the people deranged and asinine as it may be. To describe it as Tory hard Brexit is rather unfair as many Tories oppose it and in the same breath many on the left support it.
    ...and as it was obviously "all about immigration" I cant see how opposition to someone doing something about immigration is going to be the sweet spot for those who want to Remain
  • BaskervilleBaskerville Posts: 391
    Big demo in London tonight. What do they do when he doesn't resign?
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 26,067
    Baskerville said:

    Big demo in London tonight. What do they do when he doesn't resign?

    have another demo

    it keeps them happy
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,831
    edited January 2017
    Well, I enjoyed AlstairMeeks' article. Given that Brextieers make up a large number of contributors on PB, I find Mr Meeks contributions to be a good balance to that.

    I remember when AlstairMeeks was under the name 'antifrank' and when he was treated and seen in a similar way to Cyclefree.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 40,054
    edited January 2017
    Stonch said:

    This article perfectly well written but the content is entirely driven by hope rather than reality. I'm sorry to get personal - but then this article is written by an individual who relentlessly pursues the same approach here, and it's above the line, so fair to comment on his motivations I feel. Alastair Meeks desperately want to be proven right on his entire world view, even to the extent of others suffering. It's a belief system thing for him: belief in himself. It doesn't serve much purpose on a betting site to have someone like that writing header article.

    Too right - how dare he express views you don't like, but can't construct an argument against. Of course, if Alastair is wrong, the PM did have options and didn't have to rule out negotiating a single market membership arrangement and didn't have to prostrate the UK at the feet of President Trump. She just chose to. I suspect that's probably correct. She has opted to follow the path laid out by the swivel-eyed, anti-European Tory right, which will inflict whatever it takes on British people in order to cut all our ties with the EU.

  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 26,067
    SouthamObserver said:

    Stonch said:

    This article perfectly well written but the content is entirely driven by hope rather than reality. I'm sorry to get personal - but then this article is written by an individual who relentlessly pursues the same approach here, and it's above the line, so fair to comment on his motivations I feel. Alastair Meeks desperately want to be proven right on his entire world view, even to the extent of others suffering. It's a belief system thing for him: belief in himself. It doesn't serve much purpose on a betting site to have someone like that writing header article.

    Too right - how dare he express views you don't like, but can't construct an argument against. Of course, if Alastair is wrong, the PM did have options and didn't have to rule out negotiating a single market membership arrangement and didn't have to prostrate the UK at the feet of President Trump. She just chose. I suspect that's probably correct. She has opted to follow the path laid out by the swivel-eyed, anti-European Tory right, which will inflict whatever it takes on British people in order to cut all our ties with the EU.

    to prostrate the UK at the feet of President Trump.

    ROFL, and yet you applauded when Cameron did the same with Obama

  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    isam said:

    midwinter said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    Yep, Tory hard Brexit has tied us to Trump. As a result, we have to give him what he wants. That's how in control we are.

    As you said yourself on many occasions the referendum became one on immigration as much as EU membership. That being the case and faced with the intractability of the EU what options did May have? Assuming one believes in democracy she is simply following the will of the people deranged and asinine as it may be. To describe it as Tory hard Brexit is rather unfair as many Tories oppose it and in the same breath many on the left support it.
    ...and as it was obviously "all about immigration" I cant see how opposition to someone doing something about immigration is going to be the sweet spot for those who want to Remain
    Do you honestly believe that Trump is popular with British Brexit voters?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 68,723
    Pong said:

    fpt;

    https://dominiccummings.files.wordpress.com/2017/01/20170130-referendum-22-numbers.pdf

    "The most successful ad with almost all demographics all the way through was a variation on £350m/NHS that AIQ did early on and we never could beat it."

    The referendum was won on £350m/week extra for the NHS.

    That's what Theresa has to deliver to make brexit a success.

    Indeed, if that is the case, then it makes it even more risky for Tories to be seen to not be funding NHS to levels of required.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 40,054
    midwinter said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    Yep, Tory hard Brexit has tied us to Trump. As a result, we have to give him what he wants. That's how in control we are.

    As you said yourself on many occasions the referendum became one on immigration as much as EU membership. That being the case and faced with the intractability of the EU what options did May have? Assuming one believes in democracy she is simply following the will of the people deranged and asinine as it may be. To describe it as Tory hard Brexit is rather unfair as many Tories oppose it and in the same breath many on the left support it.

    There have been no negotiations. We don't know what might have been achieved. What she shouldn't have done is thrown in the towel before the process has begun.

  • tysontyson Posts: 6,124
    GeoffM said:

    maaarsh said:

    One of the easier guess the author from the title threads. Saves wasted time reading at least.

    There was a lot of scrolling action required to get past it all though.
    Must have taken ages to type out all that bile.
    Jesus...what a pair of ideological morons you two are.....Ignorant, nasty people....

  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 68,090
    edited January 2017
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    On topic, I feel sorry for Mrs May, she's stuck between a rock and a hard place.

    To paraphrase Harold Wilson, you don't kick your biggest ally in the nuts.

    I believe Theresa May and the UK are in a good place with the US pricipally because of her speech to the Republicans that commanded five standing ovations. The judiciary and the republicans will be the power behind the throne and we have to maintain our closeness no matter what the feelings of bewilderment at present.

    I think that the EU and especially Merkel have stirred the anger of Trump, who was against them anyway, and the danger is that he could cause all kinds of travel and trade restrictions in the EU plunging them into deep crisis as expressed by Verhofstadt today.

    The meeting with TM and Enda Kenny was enlightening with a real energy between the two to keep Ireland border free and to maintain the 75 billion of trade between the Countries.

    I am more confident then I have been that a good deal will happen in Brexit particulaly as TM seems to have had some success in her meeting with the devolved powers in Cardiff today.

    There are many who are attacking her but how many could have coped with this schedule

    Wednesday PMQ's
    Thursday Philadelphia
    Ftriday Wreath laying at Arlington cemetery and then first meeting with Trump at White House
    Saturda Meeting with Erdogan in Turkey and 100 million defence contact
    Sunday At No 10
    Monday Cardiff meeting with the devolved adminstrations (am)
    Monday Meeting with Enda Kenny in Ireland
  • NewsTakerNewsTaker Posts: 89
    The_Apocalypse said:

    Well, I enjoyed AlstairMeeks' article. Given that Brextieers make up a large number of contributors on PB, I find Mr Meeks contributions to be a good balance to that.

    I remember when AlstairMeeks was under the name 'antifrank' and when he was treated and seen in a similar way to Cyclefree.

    That was when he was sane.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 44,410
    Baskerville said:

    Big demo in London tonight. What do they do when he doesn't resign?

    He bloody well shouldn't resign.

    Second in the table ok eight points adrift but all to play for.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,346
    SouthamObserver said:

    There have been no negotiations. We don't know what might have been achieved. What she shouldn't have done is thrown in the towel before the process has begun.

    Clearly there have been discussions behind the scenes, but to move from 'no running commentary' to geopolitical flailing around on the world stage before we've even invoked Article 50 shows just how much pressure May is under.
  • isamisam Posts: 42,961
    Danny565 said:

    isam said:

    midwinter said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    Yep, Tory hard Brexit has tied us to Trump. As a result, we have to give him what he wants. That's how in control we are.

    As you said yourself on many occasions the referendum became one on immigration as much as EU membership. That being the case and faced with the intractability of the EU what options did May have? Assuming one believes in democracy she is simply following the will of the people deranged and asinine as it may be. To describe it as Tory hard Brexit is rather unfair as many Tories oppose it and in the same breath many on the left support it.
    ...and as it was obviously "all about immigration" I cant see how opposition to someone doing something about immigration is going to be the sweet spot for those who want to Remain
    Do you honestly believe that Trump is popular with British Brexit voters?
    Some yes, some no. If the premise is that the Referendum was won because people want tough immigration controls, I don't see this Executive Order as being that offputting. If the premise is incorrect, maybe he would be unpopular
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 10,105
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    On topic, I feel sorry for Mrs May, she's stuck between a rock and a hard place.

    To paraphrase Harold Wilson, you don't kick your biggest ally in the nuts.

    Harrassed Wilsod, as I think John Lennon once referred to him, did stand up to the US in not joining in the Vietnam War. For which I am grateful.
  • BaskervilleBaskerville Posts: 391
    Why are Rump-Remain so negative.? Mrs May has not severed our ties with our European neighbours, she's offered them a mutually beneficial free trade deal and continuing security ties. She has not prostrated us at the feet of a Fascist President, she has got the offer of a free trade deal from the new boy in the big chair and that does not mean 'selling out the NHS' at all. She also won a commitment to NATO from President Trump and kept Britain in the game when the outrage of some Western nations threatens to sideline them and their interests. Discuss.
  • midwintermidwinter Posts: 1,112
    isam said:

    midwinter said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    Yep, Tory hard Brexit has tied us to Trump. As a result, we have to give him what he wants. That's how in control we are.

    As you said yourself on many occasions the referendum became one on immigration as much as EU membership. That being the case and faced with the intractability of the EU what options did May have? Assuming one believes in democracy she is simply following the will of the people deranged and asinine as it may be. To describe it as Tory hard Brexit is rather unfair as many Tories oppose it and in the same breath many on the left support it.
    ...and as it was obviously "all about immigration" I cant see how opposition to someone doing something about immigration is going to be the sweet spot for those who want to Remain
    If people weren't prepared to vote Remain when it was the status quo and despite the obvious potential economic consequences there a cats chance in hell of them doing so now even if there was another referendum.
    I really don't think many Remainers comprehend the level of dislike at large levels of.immigration whether its from within or outside of the EU.
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    tyson said:

    GeoffM said:

    maaarsh said:

    One of the easier guess the author from the title threads. Saves wasted time reading at least.

    There was a lot of scrolling action required to get past it all though.
    Must have taken ages to type out all that bile.
    Jesus...what a pair of ideological morons you two are.....Ignorant, nasty people....

    Hehehehe
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,890
    Danny565 said:

    isam said:

    midwinter said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    Yep, Tory hard Brexit has tied us to Trump. As a result, we have to give him what he wants. That's how in control we are.

    As you said yourself on many occasions the referendum became one on immigration as much as EU membership. That being the case and faced with the intractability of the EU what options did May have? Assuming one believes in democracy she is simply following the will of the people deranged and asinine as it may be. To describe it as Tory hard Brexit is rather unfair as many Tories oppose it and in the same breath many on the left support it.
    ...and as it was obviously "all about immigration" I cant see how opposition to someone doing something about immigration is going to be the sweet spot for those who want to Remain
    Do you honestly believe that Trump is popular with British Brexit voters?
    Not popular, exactly, but a lot will take the view that the enemy of my enemy is my friend.
  • midwintermidwinter Posts: 1,112
    Danny565 said:

    isam said:

    midwinter said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    Yep, Tory hard Brexit has tied us to Trump. As a result, we have to give him what he wants. That's how in control we are.

    As you said yourself on many occasions the referendum became one on immigration as much as EU membership. That being the case and faced with the intractability of the EU what options did May have? Assuming one believes in democracy she is simply following the will of the people deranged and asinine as it may be. To describe it as Tory hard Brexit is rather unfair as many Tories oppose it and in the same breath many on the left support it.
    ...and as it was obviously "all about immigration" I cant see how opposition to someone doing something about immigration is going to be the sweet spot for those who want to Remain
    Do you honestly believe that Trump is popular with British Brexit voters?
    Trump isn't popular with UK voters. His immigration policy would however go down extremely well with many in this country (sadly).
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,890
    Jobabob said:

    The_Apocalypse

    FPT

    Yes the term 'virtue signalling' is a moron detector*, as is 'outrage bus' – DavidL is an excellent, thoughtful centre right poster normally hence why I was so surprised he used the term.

    *h/t @TSE

    There's nothing wrong with the term. The Just Pharisee was the first Virtue Signaller.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 26,067
    German car industry not happy with Brexit plans, apparently were not doing whats in their interests.

    And theyre worried


    http://www.faz.net/aktuell/wirtschaft/brexit/f-a-z-exklusiv-deutsche-autoindustrie-attackiert-brexit-plaene-14799147.html
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,346
    Baskerville said:

    She has not prostrated us at the feet of a Fascist President, she has got the offer of a free trade deal from the new boy in the big chair and that does not mean 'selling out the NHS' at all.

    She's the Prime Minister who says she wants to make the UK the global champion of free trade who stood next to Trump saying that a WTO violating border tax targeted at Mexico was nothing to do with her.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 40,054
    Alanbrooke said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    Stonch said:

    This article perfectly well written but the content is entirely driven by hope rather than reality. I'm sorry to get personal - but then this article is written by an individual who relentlessly pursues the same approach here, and it's above the line, so fair to comment on his motivations I feel. Alastair Meeks desperately want to be proven right on his entire world view, even to the extent of others suffering. It's a belief system thing for him: belief in himself. It doesn't serve much purpose on a betting site to have someone like that writing header article.

    Too right - how dare he express views you don't like, but can't construct an argument against. Of course, if Alastair is wrong, the PM did have options and didn't have to rule out negotiating a single market membership arrangement and didn't have to prostrate the UK at the feet of President Trump. She just chose. I suspect that's probably correct. She has opted to follow the path laid out by the swivel-eyed, anti-European Tory right, which will inflict whatever it takes on British people in order to cut all our ties with the EU.

    to prostrate the UK at the feet of President Trump.

    ROFL, and yet you applauded when Cameron did the same with Obama

    Er, no I didn't.

    Yes, prostrate. Seven days in President Trump gets a state visit invitation. The first time ever a new US leader has been accorded such an honour.

  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    isam said:

    Danny565 said:

    isam said:

    midwinter said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    Yep, Tory hard Brexit has tied us to Trump. As a result, we have to give him what he wants. That's how in control we are.

    As you said yourself on many occasions the referendum became one on immigration as much as EU membership. That being the case and faced with the intractability of the EU what options did May have? Assuming one believes in democracy she is simply following the will of the people deranged and asinine as it may be. To describe it as Tory hard Brexit is rather unfair as many Tories oppose it and in the same breath many on the left support it.
    ...and as it was obviously "all about immigration" I cant see how opposition to someone doing something about immigration is going to be the sweet spot for those who want to Remain
    Do you honestly believe that Trump is popular with British Brexit voters?
    Some yes, some no. If the premise is that the Referendum was won because people want tough immigration controls, I don't see this Executive Order as being that offputting. If the premise is incorrect, maybe he would be unpopular
    I absolutely think immigration was the main reason Leave won, but Trump is obviously going beyond just "controls on immigration". Just because most Brits were concerned about numbers of immigrants and thought it was a bad idea that 200m EU citizens could (theoretically) come to Britain without any control mechanisms, it doesn't automatically follow that people will support bans on one religion, and locking out even WESTERN CITIZENS WHO HAVE LIVED IN THE US FOR YEARS just on the basis of their religion.

    Let's face it, Mo Farah is more widely popular than Brexit in Britain, and, as far as I can tell, Farah has become the poster boy for the Trump policy as far as Brits are concerned.
  • midwintermidwinter Posts: 1,112
    SouthamObserver said:

    midwinter said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    Yep, Tory hard Brexit has tied us to Trump. As a result, we have to give him what he wants. That's how in control we are.

    As you said yourself on many occasions the referendum became one on immigration as much as EU membership. That being the case and faced with the intractability of the EU what options did May have? Assuming one believes in democracy she is simply following the will of the people deranged and asinine as it may be. To describe it as Tory hard Brexit is rather unfair as many Tories oppose it and in the same breath many on the left support it.

    There have been no negotiations. We don't know what might have been achieved. What she shouldn't have done is thrown in the towel before the process has begun.

    It was made abundantly clear that there would be no deal without free movement. That was the biggest driver behind the Leave vote. She had no choice. I'm no fan but she was and is in an impossible position and sadly doesn't appear to have the qualities of her predecessor to bail herself out.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 22,108
    More prostate than prostrate.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,758
    One of the signs at the anti Trump rally in Aberdeen tonight:

    OMG
    USA
    WTF

    just excellent. Probably an Aberdonian who had to pay for each letter.
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    Pong said:

    That's what Theresa has to deliver to make brexit a success.

    A doddle.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    rottenborough said:

    Pong said:

    fpt;

    https://dominiccummings.files.wordpress.com/2017/01/20170130-referendum-22-numbers.pdf

    "The most successful ad with almost all demographics all the way through was a variation on £350m/NHS that AIQ did early on and we never could beat it."

    The referendum was won on £350m/week extra for the NHS.

    That's what Theresa has to deliver to make brexit a success.

    Indeed, if that is the case, then it makes it even more risky for Tories to be seen to not be funding NHS to levels of required.
    It will be!
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 26,067
    Die Zeit des piepsigen Hinterns


    Für die deutsche Autoindustrie ist Großbritannien der wichtigste Auslandsmarkt. Knapp ein Fünftel der gesamten deutschen Autoexporte gehen ins Vereinigte Königreich.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,758
    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    One thousand years from now, there won't be any LEAVERS and there won't be any REMAINERS, just wankers. Sounds all right to me.

    Ehh...I think you will find it is the progeny of those who use their efforts more productively.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 18,356
    We just have to make the best of it. It will be crap and the whole Brexit thing ways built on some very doubtful assumptions, but we knew all that. The one thing that does worry me now as someone who believes in the benefits of partnership, would be the ending of of the British Union, which has become a bit more likely to happen.
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    edited January 2017
    I don't accept the premise that the UK has burnt its bridges with our European allies.

    We've may well have burnt our bridges with the EC & EP. But France & Germany, in particular, will want to preserve excellent relations for reasons too otiose to relate. I'd also expect us to remain on good terms with Poland. Our bilateral relations with Spain may be complicated by Gibraltar, it's hard to tell.

    Ultimately, we're still members of NATO and the Club de Berne, which are key.

    On that note, it's time for me to take a break from PB for the forseeable. Do try your very best to be pleasant to each other. Toodle pip.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 26,067
    SouthamObserver said:

    Alanbrooke said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    Stonch said:

    This article perfectly well written but the content is entirely driven by hope rather than reality. I'm sorry to get personal - but then this article is written by an individual who relentlessly pursues the same approach here, and it's above the line, so fair to comment on his motivations I feel. Alastair Meeks desperately want to be proven right on his entire world view, even to the extent of others suffering. It's a belief system thing for him: belief in himself. It doesn't serve much purpose on a betting site to have someone like that writing header article.

    Too right - how dare he express views you don't like, but can't construct an argument against. Of course, if Alastair is wrong, the PM did have options and didn't have to rule out negotiating a single market membership arrangement and didn't have to prostrate the UK at the feet of President Trump. She just chose. I suspect that's probably correct. She has opted to follow the path laid out by the swivel-eyed, anti-European Tory right, which will inflict whatever it takes on British people in order to cut all our ties with the EU.

    to prostrate the UK at the feet of President Trump.

    ROFL, and yet you applauded when Cameron did the same with Obama

    Er, no I didn't.

    Yes, prostrate. Seven days in President Trump gets a state visit invitation. The first time ever a new US leader has been accorded such an honour.

    Has he got a Nobel Peace prize yet ?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,346
    Alanbrooke said:

    http://www.faz.net/aktuell/wirtschaft/brexit/f-a-z-exklusiv-deutsche-autoindustrie-attackiert-brexit-plaene-14799147.html

    "Free trade with the UK is very important to us. But much more important for us is Europe as a whole and that the EU internal market is not damaged. This is the consensus in the German car industry." - Matthias Wissmann

    Thin gruel for the Brexit case there...
  • GnomeinZurichGnomeinZurich Posts: 20
    Any British pm would have rushed to Washington to suck up tothe new POTUS. Merkel can ride any horse she likes. Trump clearly despises her and the EU.

    How this can be twisted to show a lack of options shows a one track mind.
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    edited January 2017
    Danny565 said:

    Let's face it, Mo Farah is more widely popular than Brexit in Britain,

    Look at the evidence from the BBC's sports poll;

    Murray, the 2013 and 2015 winner, took Olympic gold, claimed his second Wimbledon title and became tennis' world number one in a remarkable 2016.

    Triathlete Alistair Brownlee was second and show jumper Nick Skelton third.

    He was outpolled by a show jumper and a triathlete after going double-double gold.
  • JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807
    The_Apocalypse said:

    Well, I enjoyed AlstairMeeks' article. Given that Brextieers make up a large number of contributors on PB, I find Mr Meeks contributions to be a good balance to that.

    I remember when AlstairMeeks was under the name 'antifrank' and when he was treated and seen in a similar way to Cyclefree.

    Yes, me too. It is telling how the guy is vilified for expressing in elegant terms a perfectly normal strand of opinion.
  • isamisam Posts: 42,961
    edited January 2017
    Danny565 said:

    isam said:

    Danny565 said:

    isam said:

    midwinter said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    Yep, Tory hard Brexit has tied us to Trump. As a result, we have to give him what he wants. That's how in control we are.

    As you said yourself on many occasions the referendum became one on immigration as much as EU membership. That being the case and faced with the intractability of the EU what options did May have? Assuming one believes in democracy she is simply following the will of the people deranged and asinine as it may be. To describe it as Tory hard Brexit is rather unfair as many Tories oppose it and in the same breath many on the left support it.
    ...and as it was obviously "all about immigration" I cant see how opposition to someone doing something about immigration is going to be the sweet spot for those who want to Remain
    Do you honestly believe that Trump is popular with British Brexit voters?
    I absolutely think immigration was the main reason Leave won, but Trump is obviously going beyond just "controls on immigration". Just because most Brits were concerned about numbers of immigrants and thought it was a bad idea that 200m EU citizens could (theoretically) come to Britain without any control mechanisms, it doesn't automatically follow that people will support bans on one religion, and locking out even WESTERN CITIZENS WHO HAVE LIVED IN THE US FOR YEARS just on the basis of their religion.

    Let's face it, Mo Farah is more widely popular than Brexit in Britain, and, as far as I can tell, Farah has become the poster boy for the Trump policy as far as Brits are concerned.
    Well maybe. It doesn't seem that way to me particularly, but you could be right

    This is an old poll from an anti facist movement and the Guardian. Have things changed in the last 5-6 years?

    "A Populus poll found that 48% of the population would consider supporting a new anti-immigration party committed to challenging Islamist extremism, and would support policies to make it statutory for all public buildings to fly the flag of St George or the union flag. According to the survey, 39% of Asian Britons, 34% of white Britons and 21% of black Britons wanted all immigration into the UK to be stopped permanently, or at least until the economy improved. And 43% of Asian Britons, 63% of white Britons and 17% of black Britons agreed with the statement that "immigration into Britain has been a bad thing for the country". Just over half of respondents – 52% – agreed with the proposition that "Muslims create problems in the UK".

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2011/feb/27/support-poll-support-far-right
  • midwintermidwinter Posts: 1,112
    Danny565 said:

    isam said:

    Danny565 said:

    isam said:

    midwinter said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    Yep, Tory hard Brexit has tied us to Trump. As a result, we have to give him what he wants. That's how in control we are.

    As you said yourself on many occasions the referendum became one on immigration as much as EU membership. That being the case and faced with the intractability of the EU what options did May have? Assuming one believes in democracy she is simply following the will of the people deranged and asinine as it may be. To describe it as Tory hard Brexit is rather unfair as many Tories oppose it and in the same breath many on the left support it.
    ...and as it was obviously "all about immigration" I cant see how opposition to someone doing something about immigration is going to be the sweet spot for those who want to Remain
    Do you honestly believe that Trump is popular with British Brexit voters?
    Some yes, some no. If the premise is that the Referendum was won because people want tough immigration controls, I don't see this Executive Order as being that offputting. If the premise is incorrect, maybe he would be unpopular
    I absolutely think immigration was the main reason Leave won, but Trump is obviously going beyond just "controls on immigration". Just because most Brits were concerned about numbers of immigrants and thought it was a bad idea that 200m EU citizens could (theoretically) come to Britain without any control mechanisms, it doesn't automatically follow that people will support bans on one religion, and locking out even WESTERN CITIZENS WHO HAVE LIVED IN THE US FOR YEARS just on the basis of their religion.

    Let's face it, Mo Farah is more widely popular than Brexit in Britain, and, as far as I can tell, Farah has become the poster boy for the Trump policy as far as Brits are concerned.
    Mo Farah 54000 votes in SPOTY, couldn't even get in the top 3 in the year in which he did the double double, Brexit 17 million votes. Not sure you're right there.

    In any case peoples concerns should be for the genuine asylum seekers rather than millionaire sports stars.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,758
    Jobabob said:

    The_Apocalypse

    FPT

    Yes the term 'virtue signalling' is a moron detector*, as is 'outrage bus' – DavidL is an excellent, thoughtful centre right poster normally hence why I was so surprised he used the term.

    *h/t @TSE

    You're right to call me up on it. I was being lazy. Long day.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    chestnut said:

    Danny565 said:

    Let's face it, Mo Farah is more widely popular than Brexit in Britain,

    Look at the evidence.

    Murray, the 2013 and 2015 winner, took Olympic gold, claimed his second Wimbledon title and became tennis' world number one in a remarkable 2016.

    Triathlete Alistair Brownlee was second and show jumper Nick Skelton third.

    He was outpolled by a show jumper and a triathlete.
    ???

    How does this do anything to disprove that Farah is more widely popular than Brexit?
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Makes you proud...

    https://twitter.com/eversojuliet/status/826157049977458688
  • GnomeinZurichGnomeinZurich Posts: 20
    Sean_F said:

    Danny565 said:

    isam said:

    midwinter said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    Yep, Tory hard Brexit has tied us to Trump. As a result, we have to give him what he wants. That's how in control we are.

    As you said yourself on many occasions the referendum became one on immigration as much as EU membership. That being the case and faced with the intractability of the EU what options did May have? Assuming one believes in democracy she is simply following the will of the people deranged and asinine as it may be. To describe it as Tory hard Brexit is rather unfair as many Tories oppose it and in the same breath many on the left support it.
    ...and as it was obviously "all about immigration" I cant see how opposition to someone doing something about immigration is going to be the sweet spot for those who want to Remain
    Do you honestly believe that Trump is popular with British Brexit voters?
    Not popular, exactly, but a lot will take the view that the enemy of my enemy is my friend.
    He is popular with me. I cant think of anything that i like about.

    But the nashing of teeth and wailing it has caused among Guardian readers is worth a knighthood on its own.
  • JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807
    Sean_F said:

    Jobabob said:

    The_Apocalypse

    FPT

    Yes the term 'virtue signalling' is a moron detector*, as is 'outrage bus' – DavidL is an excellent, thoughtful centre right poster normally hence why I was so surprised he used the term.

    *h/t @TSE

    There's nothing wrong with the term. The Just Pharisee was the first Virtue Signaller.
    The term is idiotic. It is used on here as an almost direct synonym for "not extremely rightwing".
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 40,054
    Alanbrooke said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    Alanbrooke said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    Stonch said:

    This article perfectly well written but the content is entirely driven by hope rather than reality. I'm sorry to get personal - but then this article is written by an individual who relentlessly pursues the same approach here, and it's above the line, so fair to comment on his motivations I feel. Alastair Meeks desperately want to be proven right on his entire world view, even to the extent of others suffering. It's a belief system thing for him: belief in himself. It doesn't serve much purpose on a betting site to have someone like that writing header article.

    Too right - how dare he express views you don't like, but can't construct an argument against. Of course, if Alastair is wrong, the PM did have options and didn't have to rule out negotiating a single market membership arrangement and didn't have to prostrate the UK at the feet of President Trump. She just chose. I suspect that's probably correct. She has opted to follow the path laid out by the swivel-eyed, anti-European Tory right, which will inflict whatever it takes on British people in order to cut all our ties with the EU.

    to prostrate the UK at the feet of President Trump.

    ROFL, and yet you applauded when Cameron did the same with Obama

    Er, no I didn't.

    Yes, prostrate. Seven days in President Trump gets a state visit invitation. The first time ever a new US leader has been accorded such an honour.

    Has he got a Nobel Peace prize yet ?

    Yep, it's funny how so many of those who frothed at Obama's award have no problem with the Trump invite. I thought the Obama award was ridiculous. The Trump state visit is humiliating.

  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 26,067
    williamglenn said:

    Alanbrooke said:

    http://www.faz.net/aktuell/wirtschaft/brexit/f-a-z-exklusiv-deutsche-autoindustrie-attackiert-brexit-plaene-14799147.html

    "Free trade with the UK is very important to us. But much more important for us is Europe as a whole and that the EU internal market is not damaged. This is the consensus in the German car industry." - Matthias Wissmann

    Thin gruel for the Brexit case there...
    Für die deutsche Autoindustrie ist Großbritannien der wichtigste Auslandsmarkt. Knapp ein Fünftel der gesamten deutschen Autoexporte gehen ins Vereinigte Königreich.

    The UK is the german car industry's biggest overseas market. Exactly one fifth of all german car exports go to the UK.

    thin gruel - but for who

    oh and theyve just pissed off Trump.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,346
    Scott_P said:

    Makes you proud...

    He's banned muslin? No wonder the cheesemakers are up in arms.
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,831
    I remember when it was announced that Kushner would be an advisor to Trump. Several Conservative commentators such as Matt K. Lewis argued that Kushner would/could be a counterweight to the influence of Steve Bannon. While it is only eight days into the Trump Presidency, it looks like Bannon is running the show. Trump's inauguration speech reeked of Bannon's world view. Similarly, Sean Spicer's infamous attack on the media is well in line with Bannon's attitude to the press as underlined in his comments last week. Now we also know that it was Bannon who intervened to overrule the DHS on the matter of green card holders and the Trump ban. It also looks like Bannon is taking advantage of the fact Kushner in effect, does not work on the weekends to take such an influential role in the WH. Emily Jane Fox on CNN noted that Kushner follows Shabbat on the weekends and so he cannot take any calls.
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    edited January 2017
    Danny565 said:

    chestnut said:

    Danny565 said:

    Let's face it, Mo Farah is more widely popular than Brexit in Britain,

    Look at the evidence.

    Murray, the 2013 and 2015 winner, took Olympic gold, claimed his second Wimbledon title and became tennis' world number one in a remarkable 2016.

    Triathlete Alistair Brownlee was second and show jumper Nick Skelton third.

    He was outpolled by a show jumper and a triathlete.
    ???

    How does this do anything to disprove that Farah is more widely popular than Brexit?
    17m people voted for Brexit, and if Farah can't outpoll two of three mentioned after winning double-double gold in a Sports PERSONALITY poll then he really can't be that popular.

  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 26,067
    SouthamObserver said:

    Alanbrooke said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    Alanbrooke said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    Stonch said:

    This article perfectly well written but the content is entirely driven by hope rather than reality. I'm sorry to get personal - but then this article is written by an individual who relentlessly pursues the same approach here, and it's above the line, so fair to comment on his motivations I feel. Alastair Meeks desperately want to be proven right on his entire world view, even to the extent of others suffering. It's a belief system thing for him: belief in himself. It doesn't serve much purpose on a betting site to have someone like that writing header article.

    Too right - how dare he express views you don't like, but can't construct an argument against. Of course, if Alastair is wrong, the PM did have options and didn't have to rule out negotiating a single market membership arrangement and didn't have to prostrate the UK at the feet of President Trump. She just chose. I suspect that's probably correct. She has opted to follow the path laid out by the swivel-eyed, anti-European Tory right, which will inflict whatever it takes on British people in order to cut all our ties with the EU.

    to prostrate the UK at the feet of President Trump.

    ROFL, and yet you applauded when Cameron did the same with Obama

    Er, no I didn't.

    Yes, prostrate. Seven days in President Trump gets a state visit invitation. The first time ever a new US leader has been accorded such an honour.

    Has he got a Nobel Peace prize yet ?

    Yep, it's funny how so many of those who frothed at Obama's award have no problem with the Trump invite. I thought the Obama award was ridiculous. The Trump state visit is humiliating.

    not at all, the Trump visit is politics and should be seen as such , Labour invited Mugabe FFS.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 40,054
    https://twitter.com/pa/status/826153007448416257
  • TwistedFireStopperTwistedFireStopper Posts: 2,538
    Scott_P said:

    Makes you proud...

    https://twitter.com/eversojuliet/status/826157049977458688

    They're protesting about a ban on a fabric?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 56,367
    DavidL said:

    One of the signs at the anti Trump rally in Aberdeen tonight:

    OMG
    USA
    WTF

    just excellent. Probably an Aberdonian who had to pay for each letter.

    Gave up his Scrabble night to be there too.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,346
    Alanbrooke said:

    williamglenn said:

    Alanbrooke said:

    http://www.faz.net/aktuell/wirtschaft/brexit/f-a-z-exklusiv-deutsche-autoindustrie-attackiert-brexit-plaene-14799147.html

    "Free trade with the UK is very important to us. But much more important for us is Europe as a whole and that the EU internal market is not damaged. This is the consensus in the German car industry." - Matthias Wissmann

    Thin gruel for the Brexit case there...
    Für die deutsche Autoindustrie ist Großbritannien der wichtigste Auslandsmarkt. Knapp ein Fünftel der gesamten deutschen Autoexporte gehen ins Vereinigte Königreich.

    The UK is the german car industry's biggest overseas market. Exactly one fifth of all german car exports go to the UK.

    thin gruel - but for who

    oh and theyve just pissed off Trump.
    And they say that despite that, they are more worried about the integrity of the single market, and consider May's advocacy of free trade to be hypocritical when set against her stance of hard Brexit. Not only has the German government not folded, neither has German industry.
  • JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807
    DavidL said:

    Jobabob said:

    The_Apocalypse

    FPT

    Yes the term 'virtue signalling' is a moron detector*, as is 'outrage bus' – DavidL is an excellent, thoughtful centre right poster normally hence why I was so surprised he used the term.

    *h/t @TSE

    You're right to call me up on it. I was being lazy. Long day.
    Ah, no worries. Me too. Hope the rest of the week gets better for you David.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,455
    SouthamObserver said:

    https://twitter.com/pa/status/826153007448416257

    PA doing a funny one.

    Obama had not only been invited to but had in fact met with the Queen by 2 April 2009.

    Similarly Bush had met with the Queen by 20 July 2001.
  • JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807
    GnomeinZurich said:

    Sean_F said:

    Danny565 said:

    isam said:

    midwinter said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    Yep, Tory hard Brexit has tied us to Trump. As a result, we have to give him what he wants. That's how in control we are.

    As you said yourself on many occasions the referendum became one on immigration as much as EU membership. That being the case and faced with the intractability of the EU what options did May have? Assuming one believes in democracy she is simply following the will of the people deranged and asinine as it may be. To describe it as Tory hard Brexit is rather unfair as many Tories oppose it and in the same breath many on the left support it.
    ...and as it was obviously "all about immigration" I cant see how opposition to someone doing something about immigration is going to be the sweet spot for those who want to Remain
    Do you honestly believe that Trump is popular with British Brexit voters?
    Not popular, exactly, but a lot will take the view that the enemy of my enemy is my friend.
    He is popular with me. I cant think of anything that i like about.

    But the nashing of teeth and wailing it has caused among Guardian readers is worth a knighthood on its own.
    Do you also post in English?
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 40,054
    TheWhiteRabbit said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    https://twitter.com/pa/status/826153007448416257

    PA doing a funny one.

    Obama had not only been invited to but had in fact met with the Queen by 2 April 2009.

    Similarly Bush had met with the Queen by 20 July 2001.

    Official visits are not the same as state visits.

  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 22,108
    Trump wanted crowds. He's got crowds.
  • JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807
    MarqueeMark said:

    DavidL said:

    One of the signs at the anti Trump rally in Aberdeen tonight:

    OMG
    USA
    WTF

    just excellent. Probably an Aberdonian who had to pay for each letter.

    Gave up his Scrabble night to be there too.
    Without googling, which is the highest scorer?
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    TheWhiteRabbit said:

    Obama had not only been invited to but had in fact met with the Queen by 2 April 2009.

    Similarly Bush had met with the Queen by 20 July 2001.

    Neither of which were State visits
  • isamisam Posts: 42,961
    edited January 2017
    Jonathan said:

    Trump wanted crowds. He's got crowds.

    Of virtue signallers! :):smiley:
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 10,105
    TheWhiteRabbit said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    https://twitter.com/pa/status/826153007448416257

    PA doing a funny one.

    Obama had not only been invited to but had in fact met with the Queen by 2 April 2009.

    Similarly Bush had met with the Queen by 20 July 2001.
    They said 'State Visit'.
  • MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    Contemptible defeatist bellyaching from Meeks. An embarrassingly public climacteric.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 26,067
    williamglenn said:

    Alanbrooke said:

    williamglenn said:

    Alanbrooke said:

    http://www.faz.net/aktuell/wirtschaft/brexit/f-a-z-exklusiv-deutsche-autoindustrie-attackiert-brexit-plaene-14799147.html

    "Free trade with the UK is very important to us. But much more important for us is Europe as a whole and that the EU internal market is not damaged. This is the consensus in the German car industry." - Matthias Wissmann

    Thin gruel for the Brexit case there...
    Für die deutsche Autoindustrie ist Großbritannien der wichtigste Auslandsmarkt. Knapp ein Fünftel der gesamten deutschen Autoexporte gehen ins Vereinigte Königreich.

    The UK is the german car industry's biggest overseas market. Exactly one fifth of all german car exports go to the UK.

    thin gruel - but for who

    oh and theyve just pissed off Trump.
    And they say that despite that, they are more worried about the integrity of the single market, and consider May's advocacy of free trade to be hypocritical when set against her stance of hard Brexit. Not only has the German government not folded, neither has German industry.
    it;s not folding time yet, negotiations havent started and wont until after September, this is just the Phony War
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 40,054
    Alanbrooke said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    Alanbrooke said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    Alanbrooke said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    Stonch said:

    This article perfectly well written but the content is entirely driven by hope rather than reality. I'm sorry to get personal - but then this article is written by an individual who relentlessly pursues the same approach here, and it's above the line, so fair to comment on his motivations I feel. Alastair Meeks desperately want to be proven right on his entire world view, even to the extent of others suffering. It's a belief system thing for him: belief in himself. It doesn't serve much purpose on a betting site to have someone like that writing header article.

    Too right - how dare he express views you don't like, but can't construct an argument against. Of course, if Alastair is wrong, the PM did have options and didn't have to rule out negotiating a single market membership arrangement and didn't have to prostrate the UK at the feet of President Trump. She just chose. I suspect that's probably correct. She has opted to follow the path laid out by the swivel-eyed, anti-European Tory right, which will inflict whatever it takes on British people in order to cut all our ties with the EU.

    to prostrate the UK at the feet of President Trump.

    ROFL, and yet you applauded when Cameron did the same with Obama

    Er, no I didn't.

    Yes, prostrate. Seven days in President Trump gets a state visit invitation. The first time ever a new US leader has been accorded such an honour.

    Has he got a Nobel Peace prize yet ?

    Yep, it's funny how so many of those who frothed at Obama's award have no problem with the Trump invite. I thought the Obama award was ridiculous. The Trump state visit is humiliating.

    not at all, the Trump visit is politics and should be seen as such , Labour invited Mugabe FFS.

    No - Mugabe was the Tories, too.

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 56,367
    NewsTaker said:

    Oh yes another prediction on the current state of play from AlastairM.

    AlastairMeeks "I continue to expect a clear win for Remain. I predicted 60:40 at the start of the year and that still looks entirely possible to me. "

    Is that his prediction on the second referendum?

    Or the third?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 88,711
    isam said:

    Jonathan said:

    Trump wanted crowds. He's got crowds.

    Of virtue signallers! :):smiley:
    Tyson will be on to you for the use of emjios!
  • BromptonautBromptonaut Posts: 1,113
    One to watch.

    https://twitter.com/RoguePOTUSStaff/status/826153579991937026
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    edited January 2017
    chestnut said:

    Danny565 said:

    chestnut said:

    Danny565 said:

    Let's face it, Mo Farah is more widely popular than Brexit in Britain,

    Look at the evidence.

    Murray, the 2013 and 2015 winner, took Olympic gold, claimed his second Wimbledon title and became tennis' world number one in a remarkable 2016.

    Triathlete Alistair Brownlee was second and show jumper Nick Skelton third.

    He was outpolled by a show jumper and a triathlete.
    ???

    How does this do anything to disprove that Farah is more widely popular than Brexit?
    17m people voted for Brexit, and if Farah can't outpoll two of three mentioned after winning double-double gold in a Sports PERSONALITY poll then he really can't be that popular.

    If you did nationwide polls asking people two separate questions, "do you like Mo Farah?" and "do you support Brexit?", which do you think would get the higher support?

    Very few people dislike Farah, irrespective of whether they (naturally) think his achievements are not as impressive as Murray becoming one of the greatest players of all time in such a demanding sport as tennis, or if they were suckers for the Brownlees' corny "brothers helping eachother over the finish line" story. (Admittedly I was surprised Nick Skelton beat him though!).
  • GnomeinZurichGnomeinZurich Posts: 20
    Jobabob said:

    GnomeinZurich said:

    Sean_F said:

    Danny565 said:

    isam said:

    midwinter said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    Yep, Tory hard Brexit has tied us to Trump. As a result, we have to give him what he wants. That's how in control we are.

    As you said yourself on many occasions the referendum became one on immigration as much as EU membership. That being the case and faced with the intractability of the EU what options did May have? Assuming one believes in democracy she is simply following the will of the people deranged and asinine as it may be. To describe it as Tory hard Brexit is rather unfair as many Tories oppose it and in the same breath many on the left support it.
    ...and as it was obviously "all about immigration" I cant see how opposition to someone doing something about immigration is going to be the sweet spot for those who want to Remain
    Do you honestly believe that Trump is popular with British Brexit voters?
    Not popular, exactly, but a lot will take the view that the enemy of my enemy is my friend.
    He is popular with me. I cant think of anything that i like about.

    But the nashing of teeth and wailing it has caused among Guardian readers is worth a knighthood on its own.
    Do you also post in English?
    Well sir I seem to have fingers that don't always effect the result on the ipad that would like, dry skin I am told.
    I could try in German if you like. That normally gets me in trouble.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 40,054
    Alanbrooke said:

    williamglenn said:

    Alanbrooke said:

    williamglenn said:

    Alanbrooke said:

    http://www.faz.net/aktuell/wirtschaft/brexit/f-a-z-exklusiv-deutsche-autoindustrie-attackiert-brexit-plaene-14799147.html

    "Free trade with the UK is very important to us. But much more important for us is Europe as a whole and that the EU internal market is not damaged. This is the consensus in the German car industry." - Matthias Wissmann

    Thin gruel for the Brexit case there...
    Für die deutsche Autoindustrie ist Großbritannien der wichtigste Auslandsmarkt. Knapp ein Fünftel der gesamten deutschen Autoexporte gehen ins Vereinigte Königreich.

    The UK is the german car industry's biggest overseas market. Exactly one fifth of all german car exports go to the UK.

    thin gruel - but for who

    oh and theyve just pissed off Trump.
    And they say that despite that, they are more worried about the integrity of the single market, and consider May's advocacy of free trade to be hypocritical when set against her stance of hard Brexit. Not only has the German government not folded, neither has German industry.
    it;s not folding time yet, negotiations havent started and wont until after September, this is just the Phony War

    We have already folded on the single market.

  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,455
    Scott_P said:

    TheWhiteRabbit said:

    Obama had not only been invited to but had in fact met with the Queen by 2 April 2009.

    Similarly Bush had met with the Queen by 20 July 2001.

    Neither of which were State visits
    logical_song said:

    TheWhiteRabbit said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    https://twitter.com/pa/status/826153007448416257

    PA doing a funny one.

    Obama had not only been invited to but had in fact met with the Queen by 2 April 2009.

    Similarly Bush had met with the Queen by 20 July 2001.
    They said 'State Visit'.
    Yes, I know. The distinction is little more than pedantry, though. The petition would be the same - unless you think everyone is oppose to the "state" part and not the meeting the Queen part?

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 88,711
    Bromptonaut said:

    One to watch.

    https://twitter.com/RoguePOTUSStaff/status/826153579991937026

    What is the rumour? Link it is dead.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 68,090
    Guido has a UK map showing the 20 constituencies with the most support to stop Trump's visit and the 20 least.

    It is as stark as it gets in demonstrating that the out of touch London Metropolitan Elite are still at it
  • BaskervilleBaskerville Posts: 391
    edited January 2017
    FAKE NEWS ALERT!
    TheWhiteRabbit said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    https://twitter.com/pa/status/826153007448416257

    PA doing a funny one.

    Obama had not only been invited to but had in fact met with the Queen by 2 April 2009.

    Similarly Bush had met with the Queen by 20 July 2001.
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    Jobabob said:

    The_Apocalypse said:

    Well, I enjoyed AlstairMeeks' article. Given that Brextieers make up a large number of contributors on PB, I find Mr Meeks contributions to be a good balance to that.

    I remember when AlstairMeeks was under the name 'antifrank' and when he was treated and seen in a similar way to Cyclefree.

    Yes, me too. It is telling how the guy is vilified for expressing in elegant terms a perfectly normal strand of opinion.
    Yes I agree he writes very well and offers a well needed balance of opinion.

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