politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Douglas Carswell is my 100/1 tip for next Speaker of the House
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If constant posts about how awful lefties are is not a form of virtue signalling I do not know what is.frpenkridge said:
I don't think the pb "right" claim to be good. They just think they are correct in their analysis of the political situation. It is the very very peculiar insistence of the "left" that they are the more virtuous that is irksome. It is very difficult to suppress an occasional sneer when some talk of abandoning Labour now that the party is threatening the interests of those who have the odd quarter of a million sloshing around in their bank account, unused.SouthamObserver said:
I think we all agree that us lefties are venal, wicked people who hate the UK and whose hypocrisy and contempt for the working class knows no bounds. That's a given, isn't it? And, of course, lefties are the only ones who throw insults around and denigrate their political opponents. If only we could be as *good* as people who hold right wing beliefs. But we're not: we are bad.Charles said:
Not just the last few days.John_M said:I have to say that the comments by the lefties on here over the last few days, and particularly this morning, have enlightened me as to why they never elect women leaders; it's not just their ideas on government that are stuck in the 70s.
Roger spent a long time trying to justify sexual harrassment by some favoured lefty (I forget who) on the ground that when he worked with young women they understood that wandering hands were part of the deal.
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The foundation for New Labour was in the works as far back as under Kinnock. For example, Mandelson was a key part of Kinnock's team and worked with both Brown and Blair under John Smith.philiph said:
Blair happened because John Smith died and Kinnock followed Smith?The_Apocalypse said:
Yes. And my point is, is that even after she left office she was still hugely influential. Does anybody believe that Blair and New Labour would have happened without Thatcher?Morris_Dancer said:Ms. Apocalypse, Thatcher left power over a quarter of a century ago.
Mr. Wisemann, it's a little perplexing. Many of those who really love diversity seem to have a problem with it when it comes to political opinions. Someone disagreeing with you isn't a sign they're morally defective.0 -
I wondered where all these protesting women were when we last had a POTUS accused of various acts against women and certainly guilty of abuse towards an intern? Anyone remember Bill Clinton? One of his accusers, Juanita Broaddrick summed it up last week " I am a survivor of sexual assault. I am one of the people you are supposedly marching for. I was r***** by Bill Clinton. Did you hear me? I am one of many that Bill Clinton assaulted. Where were you ladies when I was hurting and scared? This past year, I once again told about my horrific encounter with Bill Clinton. Where were you? You were silent because of your support for Hillary Clinton. Shame on you; all of you. I can finally move forward because your candidate, Hillary Clinton, and Bill Clinton, my abuser, no longer matter."TwistedFireStopper said:
I think a big part of it is that Trump just doesn't care about the protests. He'll see it as a Leftwing Democratic Women thing. They'll never vote for him, and nothing he could ever do would make them vote for him, so "feck 'em!"The_Apocalypse said:
Yep. They now have to work on getting people out to vote in 2018 if they really want to send a message to Trump. I'm surprised Trump hasn't tweeted about the protestors. His team really must be telling him 'no.'SouthamObserver said:
If the protest turns into something that revolves around getting organised at a local level to ensure voter registrations, prevent GOIP voter suppression, increase anti-Trump turnout at state and federal elections and so on then it will have been a profoundly important event. If it doesn't, then it will not be - although at a minimum it did allow the world to see that President Trump will be as paranoid, snowflakey and mendacious as candidate Trump was.The_Apocalypse said:I knew the protest wasn't going to go down so well on this site. The left have always been done things like protesting and they should continue to do so. The role of the left is not to morph into a idenkit replica of the right and their way of doing things.
http://www.mrcblog.com/2017/01/bill-clinton-rape-victims-unload-on-female-anti-trump-protesters-shame-on-all-of-you/
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Diane Abbott awful on Sunday Politics. Christ.0
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It's the passive-aggressive bollox that typically follows that's really, truly gash-awful.frpenkridge said:
I don't think the pb "right" claim to be good. They just think they are correct in their analysis of the political situation. It is the very very peculiar insistence of the "left" that they are the more virtuous that is irksome. It is very difficult to suppress an occasional sneer when some talk of abandoning Labour now that the party is threatening the interests of those who have the odd quarter of a million sloshing around in their bank account, unused.SouthamObserver said:
I think we all agree that us lefties are venal, wicked people who hate the UK and whose hypocrisy and contempt for the working class knows no bounds. That's a given, isn't it? And, of course, lefties are the only ones who throw insults around and denigrate their political opponents. If only we could be as *good* as people who hold right wing beliefs. But we're not: we are bad.Charles said:
Not just the last few days.John_M said:I have to say that the comments by the lefties on here over the last few days, and particularly this morning, have enlightened me as to why they never elect women leaders; it's not just their ideas on government that are stuck in the 70s.
Roger spent a long time trying to justify sexual harrassment by some favoured lefty (I forget who) on the ground that when he worked with young women they understood that wandering hands were part of the deal.0 -
PayPal supports 2 factor auth using Verisign. Well worth it.PlatoSaid said:How annoying. My PayPal account has been compromised and I've had two hundred plus emails signing me up to subscriptions.
Credit to PayPal they caught fraudulent purchase of a phone within an hour or so. And promptly refunded my card. Haven't been a victim of this in over a decade so a timely reminder re security.
EDIT: I know Plato ignores my posts so maybe someone else could flag it for her.0 -
Good points. Trump shows he is overly sensitive to such attacks. That said why is Trump dumped on and Bill Clinton gets a "free ride"?The_Apocalypse said:
I think the trouble is Trump is incredibly sensitive to criticism. This is a man who got wound up on twitter over losing the popular vote when he won the election anyway. Trump still goes on about Hillary even though she is essentially no longer relevant. So I think Trump wouldn't be too happy to see women not just in America, but across the world march against him. This is a guy who was so wound up about people saying that only 250k attended his inauguration that his press secretary had pictures of the inauguration in the WH press room to show how 'popular' the Donald is.TwistedFireStopper said:
I think a big part of it is that Trump just doesn't care about the protests. He'll see it as a Leftwing Democratic Women thing. They'll never vote for him, and nothing he could ever do would make them vote for him, so "feck 'em!"The_Apocalypse said:
Yep. They now have to work on getting people out to vote in 2018 if they really want to send a message to Trump. I'm surprised Trump hasn't tweeted about the protestors. His team really must be telling him 'no.'SouthamObserver said:
If the protest turns into something that revolves around getting organised at a local level to ensure voter registrations, prevent GOIP voter suppression, increase anti-Trump turnout at state and federal elections and so on then it will have been a profoundly important event. If it doesn't, then it will not be - although at a minimum it did allow the world to see that President Trump will be as paranoid, snowflakey and mendacious as candidate Trump was.The_Apocalypse said:I knew the protest wasn't going to go down so well on this site. The left have always been done things like protesting and they should continue to do so. The role of the left is not to morph into a idenkit replica of the right and their way of doing things.
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@Morris_Dancer I refuse to believe that story that the entire Labour government was pro-immigration to 'rub the Right's faces in diversity'. It may have been one or two people, but the entire government?0
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SouthamObserver said:
A magnificent lack of self-awareness there :-DShropshireLadd said:I come to this site most days to read and be 'entertained' but lately it has degenerated into nothing but a nasty cheap self opinionated one. Today especially reading Rogers posts I have come to the conclusion there is nothing worse than a bad loser. Once their arguments have been exhausted and found wanting they resort to abuse and ridicule.
Roger you are behaving like a very spoiled child that when not getting his way lashes out with venom and hate. You should be ashamed. If you cant post or argue sensibly then you should just leave this site and fume alone. That goes for others that have nothing constructive to say.
Nasty and very distateful all round
Clearly never read one of SeanT's posts thenShropshireLadd said:I come to this site most days to read and be 'entertained' but lately it has degenerated into nothing but a nasty cheap self opinionated one. Today especially reading Rogers posts I have come to the conclusion there is nothing worse than a bad loser. Once their arguments have been exhausted and found wanting they resort to abuse and ridicule.
Roger you are behaving like a very spoiled child that when not getting his way lashes out with venom and hate. You should be ashamed. If you cant post or argue sensibly then you should just leave this site and fume alone. That goes for others that have nothing constructive to say.
Nasty and very distateful all round0 -
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Diane Abbot being eaten alive on BBC One just now. Without any difficult questions.
All the Tories, UKIP or indeed the Lib Dems have to do to win any argument about Brexit (v. Labour) is simply show that interview to the electorate.0 -
WTF, as if TUBA would have any clue. Get over your hatred and enjoy your life. I know reality is difficult from tax exile , but you could at least try to get some objective opinions.CarlottaVance said:A second referendum is either “on the table”, “highly likely”, “more likely”, “off the table”, or “all but inevitable”. The First Minister seems to be approaching a second referendum in the way Simone Zaza approaches a World Cup penalty. An understanding of the swing voters from 2014 offers clues to why she is so reluctant to take her shot.
https://medium.com/@blairmcdougall/why-nicola-sturgeon-is-frozen-in-front-of-goal-4618fc79e078#.9q9t2pvol0 -
I think this protest wasn't about Trump's sexual assault initially: it was about the argument of a women's choice (in regard to abortion). It then turned into a general anti-Trump protest. But after reading up on Clinton and his accusers, I agree that the Left also need to call him out too.NewsTaker said:
I wondered where all these protesting women were when we last had a POTUS accused of various acts against women and certainly guilty of abuse towards an intern? Anyone remember Bill Clinton? One of his accusers, Juanita Broaddrick summed it up last week " I am a survivor of sexual assault. I am one of the people you are supposedly marching for. I was r***** by Bill Clinton. Did you hear me? I am one of many that Bill Clinton assaulted. Where were you ladies when I was hurting and scared? This past year, I once again told about my horrific encounter with Bill Clinton. Where were you? You were silent because of your support for Hillary Clinton. Shame on you; all of you. I can finally move forward because your candidate, Hillary Clinton, and Bill Clinton, my abuser, no longer matter."TwistedFireStopper said:
I think a big part of it is that Trump just doesn't care about the protests. He'll see it as a Leftwing Democratic Women thing. They'll never vote for him, and nothing he could ever do would make them vote for him, so "feck 'em!"The_Apocalypse said:
Yep. They now have to work on getting people out to vote in 2018 if they really want to send a message to Trump. I'm surprised Trump hasn't tweeted about the protestors. His team really must be telling him 'no.'SouthamObserver said:
If the protest turns into something that revolves around getting organised at a local level to ensure voter registrations, prevent GOIP voter suppression, increase anti-Trump turnout at state and federal elections and so on then it will have been a profoundly important event. If it doesn't, then it will not be - although at a minimum it did allow the world to see that President Trump will be as paranoid, snowflakey and mendacious as candidate Trump was.The_Apocalypse said:I knew the protest wasn't going to go down so well on this site. The left have always been done things like protesting and they should continue to do so. The role of the left is not to morph into a idenkit replica of the right and their way of doing things.
http://www.mrcblog.com/2017/01/bill-clinton-rape-victims-unload-on-female-anti-trump-protesters-shame-on-all-of-you/0 -
There is a Twitter site #ProvokeTrump:NewsTaker said:
Good points. Trump shows he is overly sensitive to such attacks. That said why is Trump dumped on and Bill Clinton gets a "free ride"?The_Apocalypse said:I think the trouble is Trump is incredibly sensitive to criticism. This is a man who got wound up on twitter over losing the popular vote when he won the election anyway. Trump still goes on about Hillary even though she is essentially no longer relevant. So I think Trump wouldn't be too happy to see women not just in America, but across the world march against him. This is a guy who was so wound up about people saying that only 250k attended his inauguration that his press secretary had pictures of the inauguration in the WH press room to show how 'popular' the Donald is.
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Theresa's response to the America First question posed by Marr was 'well I am UK first' as all leaders extol their own CountrySouthamObserver said:
The UK was never going to be punished. The fools were the people who listened to Commission functionaries with platforms but no power. The Brexit deal will be done by the Germans and the French, with smaller member states using the veto as a threat to get concessions. However, we need to accept that if you leave a club you no longer get the benefits of membership. When the Europeans insist on that, it is not punishing us it is stating a self-evident truth.Big_G_NorthWales said:
'However, we do know that Trump has repeatedly described NATO as not fit for purpose, has often expressed a desire for the EU to break-up and is a protectionist. These three things run directly contrary to British interests in a way that we have not seen from a US administration for decades. Putting a bust of Churchill in the Oval Office does not change any of those things.'
And that is why the relationship with the UK is so important. Theresa May has a huge job to do to influence Trump in the right way and I cannot think of any world leader who is better placed. The fact she is a woman is an antidote to his anti women views, that she supports NATO and the 2% commitment will be a plus and that she has stated that she wants the EU to succeed.
He will not agree to an EU army and the importance of NATO will be shared with the EU and in particular the Baltic Countries which cannot defy him if they want his support. He will be a problem for Merkel not least because he dislikes anything that Obama liked and also that he does not support the EU but is looking for individual trade deals rather than with blocks.
The benefit to the UK is that circumstances have changed so dramtically in the last few days that the thought that the EU would even attempt to punish us for leaving is off the table and the end game will be a special UK deal that works for all - and drinks all round
May does have a huge job with Trump. America First is a very difficult slogan for him to inch away from. He will have to if the UK is to get anything positive from him.0 -
@tnewtondunn: Summary of Diane Abbott on #bbcsp: no official Labour position yet on Article 50, whip on the vote, the single market or customs union. Oh.0
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Bill Clinton was impeached. That's hardly a free ride.NewsTaker said:
Good points. Trump shows he is overly sensitive to such attacks. That said why is Trump dumped on and Bill Clinton gets a "free ride"?The_Apocalypse said:
I think the trouble is Trump is incredibly sensitive to criticism. This is a man who got wound up on twitter over losing the popular vote when he won the election anyway. Trump still goes on about Hillary even though she is essentially no longer relevant. So I think Trump wouldn't be too happy to see women not just in America, but across the world march against him. This is a guy who was so wound up about people saying that only 250k attended his inauguration that his press secretary had pictures of the inauguration in the WH press room to show how 'popular' the Donald is.TwistedFireStopper said:
I think a big part of it is that Trump just doesn't care about the protests. He'll see it as a Leftwing Democratic Women thing. They'll never vote for him, and nothing he could ever do would make them vote for him, so "feck 'em!"The_Apocalypse said:
Yep. They now have to work on getting people out to vote in 2018 if they really want to send a message to Trump. I'm surprised Trump hasn't tweeted about the protestors. His team really must be telling him 'no.'SouthamObserver said:
If the protest turns into something that revolves around getting organised at a local level to ensure voter registrations, prevent GOIP voter suppression, increase anti-Trump turnout at state and federal elections and so on then it will have been a profoundly important event. If it doesn't, then it will not be - although at a minimum it did allow the world to see that President Trump will be as paranoid, snowflakey and mendacious as candidate Trump was.The_Apocalypse said:I knew the protest wasn't going to go down so well on this site. The left have always been done things like protesting and they should continue to do so. The role of the left is not to morph into a idenkit replica of the right and their way of doing things.
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I do not think that the same women protesters would have been out attacking Bill Clinton as the partner of POTUS, despite his appalling behaviour towards women. Lefties have different standards based on political bias.stodge said:
Had Clinton won, we'd have seen a huge bloodletting on the GOP side as those who backed Trump would have found themselves swamped by a GOP establishment onslaught while Trump would have tweeted the injustice of it all and been ignored.The_Apocalypse said:I knew the protest wasn't going to go down so well on this site. The left have always been done things like protesting and they should continue to do so. The role of the left is not to morph into a idenkit replica of the right and their way of doing things.
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Hahha. Hyperbole much?JWisemann said:
No. Women on the right are treated the same as men on the right - correctly, as greedy, narrow-minded graspers whose inability to look outside their own grubby self-serving motivations is dragging civilisation and the natural world headlong towards complete destruction.Sean_F said:
I think there's a view on the Left that women who support the Right are Uncle Toms, and that explains the sort of abuse that Esther McVey and Charlotte Leslie received.CarlottaVance said:
Just a coincidence then that the only two major parties in the UK never to have had a female leader are Labour & the Lib Dems?Roger said:
I don't think it's a left-right thing thoughAlanbrooke said:
RogerRoger said:
I'm not Labour anymore but without being sexist I'd always choose a woman over a man if an electable one was available. Yvette would have been a much better choice than Ed.Alanbrooke said:
so why dont you elect women ?Roger said:
You pompous arse!!John_M said:I have to say that the comments by the lefties on here over the last few days, and particularly this morning, have enlightened me as to why they never elect women leaders; it's not just their ideas on government that are stuck in the 70s.
I think this US election has changed everything. I spent some hours reading about the six times bankrupt Donald Trump last night and he really is a piece of work . A genuine misogynist and racist. Check out his work on the 'birther' story.
even the neandertals of the DUP have a woman leader
fact is you lefties just wont elect a woman
Imagine what you'd be writing if it was Labour who first had a female leader 40 years ago and the Tories still hadn't?0 -
Mr. P, that tweet accidentally missed out the promised referendum on the Lisbon Treaty, concerns over migration, the enormous contributions we make financially, Blair throwing away half the rebate for nothing, the deliberately complex and opaque governance of the EU, unelected and unaccountable judges etc ad nauseum.
There were plenty of legitimate arguments to Leave or Remain. Pretending the EU gave us everything we wanted is ridiculous.
Ms. Apocalypse, if the one or two were the decision-makers, that's enough.
Miss Plato, unsure if it's a technical block/ignore, but this is something you may want to see, if you couldn't before:
"PayPal supports 2 factor auth using Verisign. Well worth it."
[Posted by Mr. P].0 -
I thought his CIA speech was a hoot.CarlottaVance said:
Strong stuff from Mr Herdson.TheScreamingEagles said:I'm going out on a limb and saying David Herdson's not a fan of Donald Trump
@DavidHerdson: If Trump carries on like his CIA speech and the press conferemce, he won't see out the year in office. #25thAmendment.
@DavidHerdson: Bluster, no questions and a Big Fat Lie. Ironic that the biggest Snowflake in the world is the fascist in the White House.
Was wine taken?0 -
SouthamObserver said:
If constant posts about how awful lefties are is not a form of virtue signalling I do not know what is.
Being a leftie while using a stupid handle that namechecks a staunchly Tory constituency? If there was a right-wing poster called 'KnowsleySpectator' or something, it would be dismissed, rightly, as utterly ludicrous.0 -
But both the Clintons, as deeply flawed as they both are, are still well regarded by the very same people who march against Trump. That is weapons grade hypocrisy.SouthamObserver said:
Bill Clinton was impeached. That's hardly a free ride.NewsTaker said:
Good points. Trump shows he is overly sensitive to such attacks. That said why is Trump dumped on and Bill Clinton gets a "free ride"?The_Apocalypse said:
I think the trouble is Trump is incredibly sensitive to criticism. This is a man who got wound up on twitter over losing the popular vote when he won the election anyway. Trump still goes on about Hillary even though she is essentially no longer relevant. So I think Trump wouldn't be too happy to see women not just in America, but across the world march against him. This is a guy who was so wound up about people saying that only 250k attended his inauguration that his press secretary had pictures of the inauguration in the WH press room to show how 'popular' the Donald is.TwistedFireStopper said:
I think a big part of it is that Trump just doesn't care about the protests. He'll see it as a Leftwing Democratic Women thing. They'll never vote for him, and nothing he could ever do would make them vote for him, so "feck 'em!"The_Apocalypse said:
Yep. They now have to work on getting people out to vote in 2018 if they really want to send a message to Trump. I'm surprised Trump hasn't tweeted about the protestors. His team really must be telling him 'no.'SouthamObserver said:
If the protest turns into something that revolves around getting organised at a local level to ensure voter registrations, prevent GOIP voter suppression, increase anti-Trump turnout at state and federal elections and so on then it will have been a profoundly important event. If it doesn't, then it will not be - although at a minimum it did allow the world to see that President Trump will be as paranoid, snowflakey and mendacious as candidate Trump was.The_Apocalypse said:I knew the protest wasn't going to go down so well on this site. The left have always been done things like protesting and they should continue to do so. The role of the left is not to morph into a idenkit replica of the right and their way of doing things.
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But, but, but that is the 100% characterisation of the pb remainer left who freely admit they hate the English working class north of London and who bugger off to the Med after they have made their pile.Dromedary said:
And the British ones are often cruel with it. Nothing they hate more than oiks, scrotes, members of the public, proles on public transport, etc.JWisemann said:
No. Women on the right are treated the same as men on the right - correctly, as greedy, narrow-minded graspers whose inability to look outside their own grubby self-serving motivations is dragging civilisation and the natural world headlong towards complete destruction.Sean_F said:
I think there's a view on the Left that women who support the Right are Uncle Toms, and that explains the sort of abuse that Esther McVey and Charlotte Leslie received.CarlottaVance said:
Just a coincidence then that the only two major parties in the UK never to have had a female leader are Labour & the Lib Dems?Roger said:
I don't think it's a left-right thing thoughAlanbrooke said:
RogerRoger said:
I'm not Labour anymore but without being sexist I'd always choose a woman over a man if an electable one was available. Yvette would have been a much better choice than Ed.Alanbrooke said:
so why dont you elect women ?Roger said:
You pompous arse!!John_M said:I have to say that the comments by the lefties on here over the last few days, and particularly this morning, have enlightened me as to why they never elect women leaders; it's not just their ideas on government that are stuck in the 70s.
I think this US election has changed everything. I spent some hours reading about the six times bankrupt Donald Trump last night and he really is a piece of work . A genuine misogynist and racist. Check out his work on the 'birther' story.
even the neandertals of the DUP have a woman leader
fact is you lefties just wont elect a woman
Imagine what you'd be writing if it was Labour who first had a female leader 40 years ago and the Tories still hadn't?0 -
Bill Clinton got a free ride from Democrat women. There were no mass protests. His wife clearly tolerated his behaviour yet the Democratic party thought that she was a fit and proper person to be POTUS....SouthamObserver said:
Bill Clinton was impeached. That's hardly a free ride.NewsTaker said:
Good points. Trump shows he is overly sensitive to such attacks. That said why is Trump dumped on and Bill Clinton gets a "free ride"?The_Apocalypse said:
I think the trouble is Trump is incredibly sensitive to criticism. This is a man who got wound up on twitter over losing the popular vote when he won the election anyway. Trump still goes on about Hillary even though she is essentially no longer relevant. So I think Trump wouldn't be too happy to see women not just in America, but across the world march against him. This is a guy who was so wound up about people saying that only 250k attended his inauguration that his press secretary had pictures of the inauguration in the WH press room to show how 'popular' the Donald is.TwistedFireStopper said:
I think a big part of it is that Trump just doesn't care about the protests. He'll see it as a Leftwing Democratic Women thing. They'll never vote for him, and nothing he could ever do would make them vote for him, so "feck 'em!"The_Apocalypse said:
Yep. They now have to work on getting people out to vote in 2018 if they really want to send a message to Trump. I'm surprised Trump hasn't tweeted about the protestors. His team really must be telling him 'no.'SouthamObserver said:
If the protest turns into something that revolves around getting organised at a local level to ensure voter registrations, prevent GOIP voter suppression, increase anti-Trump turnout at state and federal elections and so on then it will have been a profoundly important event. If it doesn't, then it will not be - although at a minimum it did allow the world to see that President Trump will be as paranoid, snowflakey and mendacious as candidate Trump was.The_Apocalypse said:I knew the protest wasn't going to go down so well on this site. The left have always been done things like protesting and they should continue to do so. The role of the left is not to morph into a idenkit replica of the right and their way of doing things.
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That involves days of hard work and slogging it out in the rain, and doesnt give anything like the warm feeling of marching through town on a nice days and burning a few limousines getting your face on the telly.The_Apocalypse said:
Yep. They now have to work on getting people out to vote in 2018 if they really want to send a message to Trump. I'm surprised Trump hasn't tweeted about the protestors. His team really must be telling him 'no.'SouthamObserver said:
If the protest turns into something that revolves around getting organised at a local level to ensure voter registrations, prevent GOIP voter suppression, increase anti-Trump turnout at state and federal elections and so on then it will have been a profoundly important event. If it doesn't, then it will not be - although at a minimum it did allow the world to see that President Trump will be as paranoid, snowflakey and mendacious as candidate Trump was.The_Apocalypse said:I knew the protest wasn't going to go down so well on this site. The left have always been done things like protesting and they should continue to do so. The role of the left is not to morph into a idenkit replica of the right and their way of doing things.
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For sure they won't want Saint Theresa massively overshadowed and shown up.CarlottaVance said:
I think he's going to have to settle for a visit to the queen......talks of 'round of golf at Balmoral' - which is a bit tricky as its a private, not state residence and she goes there for her hols......Pong said:
That last one could be quite a big carrot to hang in front of donald.Pong said:
Probably worth giving it a go.edmundintokyo said:
Just to put that point a bit more strongly, if there's ever been a leader it's worth meeting personally, it's Trump.TwistedFireStopper said:You can march as far as you want, burn limos, chuck rocks through shop windows, wave your well thought out placards and scream on twitter until your lungs explode, but Trump is still President. He is barmier than I thought he would be, and the first day or so hasn't exactly filled me with hope, but the US system made him top dog, and we have to deal with him. May is right to go and see him. Every world leader will need to meet him.
Normally a president will already have well thought-out views, and will also have advice from experts. It's probably quite unusual to be able to substantially sway their opinion by talking to them personally.
As far as we can tell, Trump is breathtakingly ignorant, has no settled political philosophy, goes with his gut and doesn't listen to advice. It's a long-shot but May's best bet is to get over there as fast as she possibly can, get him in a room, say a bunch of flattering things and try to get him to sign an agreement there and then before anybody else can stop him.
Heads of terms;
1. The windfarm near Donald's golf course gets moved.
2. US tariffs lowered by 95%
3. UK tariffs lowered by 5%
4. At least one nice story about Donald on the BBC every day.
5. We'll send the queen out for one last visit to America. Otherwise you're getting Charles.
Nothing legitimizes a president more than a visit from the queen.
He's going to want that. bigly.
Edit - and they're going to want to get him in & out of Scotland without meeting Mrs McTurnip.....0 -
This is constructed entirely around one article by one relatively minor functionary that was subsequently withdrawn and has always been denied. People will believe what they want to believe, though; and, to be fair, Labour has provided a lot of ammunition. Rotherham is a stain that will take years to erase because the political correctness Labour championed was undoubtedly used as a shield by both wicked and lazy people to look the other way.The_Apocalypse said:@Morris_Dancer I refuse to believe that story that the entire Labour government was pro-immigration to 'rub the Right's faces in diversity'. It may have been one or two people, but the entire government?
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Big Blair managed to lose 15 points for Bettertogether, let his own campaign be defined as Project Fear and helped SLab to poll in the teens. He should be encouraged to contribute to Scottish politics as much as possible.malcolmg said:
WTF, as if TUBA would have any clue. Get over your hatred and enjoy your life. I know reality is difficult from tax exile , but you could at least try to get some objective opinions.CarlottaVance said:A second referendum is either “on the table”, “highly likely”, “more likely”, “off the table”, or “all but inevitable”. The First Minister seems to be approaching a second referendum in the way Simone Zaza approaches a World Cup penalty. An understanding of the swing voters from 2014 offers clues to why she is so reluctant to take her shot.
https://medium.com/@blairmcdougall/why-nicola-sturgeon-is-frozen-in-front-of-goal-4618fc79e078#.9q9t2pvol0 -
Much better than I put it, sir.TwistedFireStopper said:
But both the Clintons, as deeply flawed as they both are, are still well regarded by the very same people who march against Trump. That is weapons grade hypocrisy.SouthamObserver said:
Bill Clinton was impeached. That's hardly a free ride.NewsTaker said:
Good points. Trump shows he is overly sensitive to such attacks. That said why is Trump dumped on and Bill Clinton gets a "free ride"?The_Apocalypse said:
I think the trouble is Trump is incredibly sensitive to criticism. This is a man who got wound up on twitter over losing the popular vote when he won the election anyway. Trump still goes on about Hillary even though she is essentially no longer relevant. So I think Trump wouldn't be too happy to see women not just in America, but across the world march against him. This is a guy who was so wound up about people saying that only 250k attended his inauguration that his press secretary had pictures of the inauguration in the WH press room to show how 'popular' the Donald is.TwistedFireStopper said:
I think a big part of it is that Trump just doesn't care about the protests. He'll see it as a Leftwing Democratic Women thing. They'll never vote for him, and nothing he could ever do would make them vote for him, so "feck 'em!"The_Apocalypse said:
Yep. They now have to work on getting people out to vote in 2018 if they really want to send a message to Trump. I'm surprised Trump hasn't tweeted about the protestors. His team really must be telling him 'no.'SouthamObserver said:
If the protest turns into something that revolves around getting organised at a local level to ensure voter registrations, prevent GOIP voter suppression, increase anti-Trump turnout at state and federal elections and so on then it will have been a profoundly important event. If it doesn't, then it will not be - although at a minimum it did allow the world to see that President Trump will be as paranoid, snowflakey and mendacious as candidate Trump was.The_Apocalypse said:I knew the protest wasn't going to go down so well on this site. The left have always been done things like protesting and they should continue to do so. The role of the left is not to morph into a idenkit replica of the right and their way of doing things.
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It's one of the reasons why she lost, of course.NewsTaker said:
Bill Clinton got a free ride from Democrat women. There were no mass protests. His wife clearly tolerated his behaviour yet the Democratic party thought that she was a fit and proper person to be POTUS....SouthamObserver said:
Bill Clinton was impeached. That's hardly a free ride.NewsTaker said:
Good points. Trump shows he is overly sensitive to such attacks. That said why is Trump dumped on and Bill Clinton gets a "free ride"?The_Apocalypse said:
I think the trouble is Trump is incredibly sensitive to criticism. This is a man who got wound up on twitter over losing the popular vote when he won the election anyway. Trump still goes on about Hillary even though she is essentially no longer relevant. So I think Trump wouldn't be too happy to see women not just in America, but across the world march against him. This is a guy who was so wound up about people saying that only 250k attended his inauguration that his press secretary had pictures of the inauguration in the WH press room to show how 'popular' the Donald is.TwistedFireStopper said:
I think a big part of it is that Trump just doesn't care about the protests. He'll see it as a Leftwing Democratic Women thing. They'll never vote for him, and nothing he could ever do would make them vote for him, so "feck 'em!"The_Apocalypse said:
Yep. They now have to work on getting people out to vote in 2018 if they really want to send a message to Trump. I'm surprised Trump hasn't tweeted about the protestors. His team really must be telling him 'no.'SouthamObserver said:
If the protest turns into something that revolves around getting organised at a local level to ensure voter registrations, prevent GOIP voter suppression, increase anti-Trump turnout at state and federal elections and so on then it will have been a profoundly important event. If it doesn't, then it will not be - although at a minimum it did allow the world to see that President Trump will be as paranoid, snowflakey and mendacious as candidate Trump was.The_Apocalypse said:I knew the protest wasn't going to go down so well on this site. The left have always been done things like protesting and they should continue to do so. The role of the left is not to morph into a idenkit replica of the right and their way of doing things.
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Have we had a 3 quid to join PB offer on? The calibre of newbies is disturbing.SirBenjamin said:SouthamObserver said:
If constant posts about how awful lefties are is not a form of virtue signalling I do not know what is.
Being a leftie while using a stupid handle that namechecks a staunchly Tory constituency? If there was a right-wing poster called 'KnowsleySpectator' or something, it would be dismissed, rightly, as utterly ludicrous.0 -
It's where I lived for 10 years. I moved but kept the handle as that is my identifier on here. Sorry. Once again, all it shows is just how utterly contemptible us lefties are, I suppose.SirBenjamin said:SouthamObserver said:
If constant posts about how awful lefties are is not a form of virtue signalling I do not know what is.
Being a leftie while using a stupid handle that namechecks a staunchly Tory constituency? If there was a right-wing poster called 'KnowsleySpectator' or something, it would be dismissed, rightly, as utterly ludicrous.
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Sorry to hear this Plato. It has prompted me to update my account to use the two step Security Key feature. They will SMS a unique code to your mobile at each transaction for extra verification.PlatoSaid said:How annoying. My PayPal account has been compromised and I've had two hundred plus emails signing me up to subscriptions.
Credit to PayPal they caught fraudulent purchase of a phone within an hour or so. And promptly refunded my card. Haven't been a victim of this in over a decade so a timely reminder re security.0 -
SouthamObserver said:
She didn't just tolerate it - she managed the "Bimbo Eruption Squad" who dealt with Bill Clintons little problems by rubbishing the women involved, via press back channels.NewsTaker said:
It's one of the reasons why she lost, of course.SouthamObserver said:
Bill Clinton got a free ride from Democrat women. There were no mass protests. His wife clearly tolerated his behaviour yet the Democratic party thought that she was a fit and proper person to be POTUS....NewsTaker said:
Bill Clinton was impeached. That's hardly a free ride.The_Apocalypse said:
:TwistedFireStopper said:
I think a big part of it is that Trump just doesn't care about the protests. He'll see it as a Leftwing Democratic Women thing. They'll never vote for him, and nothing he could ever do would make them vote for him, so "feck 'em!"The_Apocalypse said:
Yep. They now have to work on getting people out to vote in 2018 if they really want to send a message to Trump. I'm surprised Trump hasn't tweeted about the protestors. His team really must be telling him 'no.'SouthamObserver said:
If the protest turns into something that revolves around getting organised at a local level to ensure voter registrations, prevent GOIP voter suppression, increase anti-Trump turnout at state and federal elections and so on then it will have been a profoundly important event. If it doesn't, then it will not be - although at a minimum it did allow the world to see that President Trump will be as paranoid, snowflakey and mendacious as candidate Trump was.The_Apocalypse said:I knew the protest wasn't going to go down so well on this site. The left have always been done things like protesting and they should continue to do so. The role of the left is not to morph into a idenkit replica of the right and their way of doing things.
/blockquote>
Good points. Trump shows he is overly sensitive to such attacks. That said why is Trump dumped on and Bill Clinton gets a "free ride"?
There is a reason that many on the left find Hillary truly distasteful.0 -
Trump/Farage/Le Pen have their moment in the sun right now, we lefties suspect we know where were headed but in reality we have no option but to sit it out and observe the consequences.The_Apocalypse said:
Yep. They now have to work on getting people out to vote in 2018 if they really want to send a message to Trump. I'm surprised Trump hasn't tweeted about the protestors. His team really must be telling him 'no.'SouthamObserver said:
If the protest turns into something that revolves around getting organised at a local level to ensure voter registrations, prevent GOIP voter suppression, increase anti-Trump turnout at state and federal elections and so on then it will have been a profoundly important event. If it doesn't, then it will not be - although at a minimum it did allow the world to see that President Trump will be as paranoid, snowflakey and mendacious as candidate Trump was.The_Apocalypse said:I knew the protest wasn't going to go down so well on this site. The left have always been done things like protesting and they should continue to do so. The role of the left is not to morph into a idenkit replica of the right and their way of doing things.
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How about you limit it to cases where a factory is closed down and moved abroad. Basically a stick version of government tax incentives to keep a factory in place.rcs1000 said:
The Border Tax Adjustment (BTA) is the single biggest Trump policy position that no-one is talking about. And they're not talking about it for a number of reasons...CarlottaVance said:Why would it affect the UK disproportionately and would a reciprocal tax not help even things out?
In essence the BTA says anything imported into the US incurs a corporate tax liability equivalent to if said import was made in the US.
Now, at its simplest, this says to Ford "if you move production (and therefore taxes) down to Mexico, then expect to pay us the tax we're losing by the car being made there rather than here."
The problem is in the details. To stay within the (rough) framework of the WTO Treaties the US has signed, this is being couched as a revenue mechanism rather than a trade one. And it similarly needs - as part of both tax and WTO obligations - to be non-discriminatory.
We in the UK will suffer disproportionately because our exports are high margin - i.e. there's more tax that the US is missing out on than if you shipped them (say) iron ore where your margins are wafer thin.
The other people who would disproportionately suffer would be Middle Eastern countries who ship oil at $60 to the US, when it only costs them $5 to get it out the ground. I can't imagine many Saudi tankers will be heading towards the US. (This is, therefore, a huge bonus relatively to Canadian oil sands, where the cost of extraction is enormous and the profit per barrel low.)
There are a lot of 'devil is in the details' about this because the border tax has to work in one of three ways:
1. The company importing has to show what its exact profit on said item is. (Making it extremely bureaucratic.)
2. The US govt has to charge it on the pre-tax profit rate of said corporate. (Making it a massive subsidy to Amazon.)
3. Or the US govt has to have authority to estimate tax burdens on a case-by-case basis. (Making it extremely susceptible to corruption from border agents.)
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Bill was clearly a sexual predator and is hypocritical for any Democrat not to recognise that. Hillary probably would have been much better off walking away.TwistedFireStopper said:
But both the Clintons, as deeply flawed as they both are, are still well regarded by the very same people who march against Trump. That is weapons grade hypocrisy.SouthamObserver said:
Bill Clinton was impeached. That's hardly a free ride.NewsTaker said:
Good points. Trump shows he is overly sensitive to such attacks. That said why is Trump dumped on and Bill Clinton gets a "free ride"?The_Apocalypse said:
I think the trouble is Trump is incredibly sensitive to criticism. This is a man who got wound up on twitter over losing the popular vote when he won the election anyway. Trump still goes on about Hillary even though she is essentially no longer relevant. So I think Trump wouldn't be too happy to see women not just in America, but across the world march against him. This is a guy who was so wound up about people saying that only 250k attended his inauguration that his press secretary had pictures of the inauguration in the WH press room to show how 'popular' the Donald is.TwistedFireStopper said:
I think a big part of it is that Trump just doesn't care about the protests. He'll see it as a Leftwing Democratic Women thing. They'll never vote for him, and nothing he could ever do would make them vote for him, so "feck 'em!"The_Apocalypse said:
Yep. They now have to work on getting people out to vote in 2018 if they really want to send a message to Trump. I'm surprised Trump hasn't tweeted about the protestors. His team really must be telling him 'no.'SouthamObserver said:
If the protest turns into something that revolves around getting organised at a local level to ensure voter registrations, prevent GOIP voter suppression, increase anti-Trump turnout at state and federal elections and so on then it will have been a profoundly important event. If it doesn't, then it will not be - although at a minimum it did allow the world to see that President Trump will be as paranoid, snowflakey and mendacious as candidate Trump was.The_Apocalypse said:I knew the protest wasn't going to go down so well on this site. The left have always been done things like protesting and they should continue to do so. The role of the left is not to morph into a idenkit replica of the right and their way of doing things.
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Many Democrats managed to ignore Ted Kennedy's behaviour at Chappaquiddick. If they can push that to one side it's no wonder that Clinton got a pass from his supporters. And to be fair Republicans are just as bad when the try to make out that Nixon was a good President if you focus on the foreign policy successes and ignore all the malfeasance.NewsTaker said:I wondered where all these protesting women were when we last had a POTUS accused of various acts against women and certainly guilty of abuse towards an intern? Anyone remember Bill Clinton? One of his accusers, Juanita Broaddrick summed it up last week " I am a survivor of sexual assault. I am one of the people you are supposedly marching for. I was r***** by Bill Clinton. Did you hear me? I am one of many that Bill Clinton assaulted. Where were you ladies when I was hurting and scared? This past year, I once again told about my horrific encounter with Bill Clinton. Where were you? You were silent because of your support for Hillary Clinton. Shame on you; all of you. I can finally move forward because your candidate, Hillary Clinton, and Bill Clinton, my abuser, no longer matter."
http://www.mrcblog.com/2017/01/bill-clinton-rape-victims-unload-on-female-anti-trump-protesters-shame-on-all-of-you/
US politics as a whole is far too tolerant of the wicked providing they are winners.
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The Senate acquitted him.SouthamObserver said:
Bill Clinton was impeached. That's hardly a free ride.NewsTaker said:
Good points. Trump shows he is overly sensitive to such attacks. That said why is Trump dumped on and Bill Clinton gets a "free ride"?The_Apocalypse said:
I think the trouble is Trump is incredibly sensitive to criticism. This is a man who got wound up on twitter over losing the popular vote when he won the election anyway. Trump still goes on about Hillary even though she is essentially no longer relevant. So I think Trump wouldn't be too happy to see women not just in America, but across the world march against him. This is a guy who was so wound up about people saying that only 250k attended his inauguration that his press secretary had pictures of the inauguration in the WH press room to show how 'popular' the Donald is.TwistedFireStopper said:
I think a big part of it is that Trump just doesn't care about the protests. He'll see it as a Leftwing Democratic Women thing. They'll never vote for him, and nothing he could ever do would make them vote for him, so "feck 'em!"The_Apocalypse said:
Yep. They now have to work on getting people out to vote in 2018 if they really want to send a message to Trump. I'm surprised Trump hasn't tweeted about the protestors. His team really must be telling him 'no.'SouthamObserver said:
If the protest turns into something that revolves around getting organised at a local level to ensure voter registrations, prevent GOIP voter suppression, increase anti-Trump turnout at state and federal elections and so on then it will have been a profoundly important event. If it doesn't, then it will not be - although at a minimum it did allow the world to see that President Trump will be as paranoid, snowflakey and mendacious as candidate Trump was.The_Apocalypse said:I knew the protest wasn't going to go down so well on this site. The left have always been done things like protesting and they should continue to do so. The role of the left is not to morph into a idenkit replica of the right and their way of doing things.
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I think the linked article accurate in explaining Mrs May's non-negotiating negotiation strategy.: The other side is completely uninterested. The problem is that we do actually NEED to negotiate various things. Particularly our WTO schedules that Trump is certainly not going to be helpful with.Scott_P said:0 -
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/6418456/Labour-wanted-mass-immigration-to-make-UK-more-multicultural-says-former-adviser.htmlSouthamObserver said:
This is constructed entirely around one article by one relatively minor functionary that was subsequently withdrawn and has always been denied. People will believe what they want to believe, though; and, to be fair, Labour has provided a lot of ammunition. Rotherham is a stain that will take years to erase because the political correctness Labour championed was undoubtedly used as a shield by both wicked and lazy people to look the other way.The_Apocalypse said:@Morris_Dancer I refuse to believe that story that the entire Labour government was pro-immigration to 'rub the Right's faces in diversity'. It may have been one or two people, but the entire government?
Ed Balls and Baby P didn't do Labour any favours either, nor that photogenic fellow Mr Hamza who gave a Labour government the run around for years as they tried not to upset an important sector of their vote before Mrs May threw him out.0 -
I think you'll find that today's discussion has been about what lefties wrote 'bitch in heat' 'giving a blo job while reading an autocue' rather than who they areSouthamObserver said:
If constant posts about how awful lefties are is not a form of virtue signalling I do not know what is.frpenkridge said:
I don't think the pb "right" claim to be good. They just think they are correct in their analysis of the political situation. It is the very very peculiar insistence of the "left" that they are the more virtuous that is irksome. It is very difficult to suppress an occasional sneer when some talk of abandoning Labour now that the party is threatening the interests of those who have the odd quarter of a million sloshing around in their bank account, unused.SouthamObserver said:
I think we all agree that us lefties are venal, wicked people who hate the UK and whose hypocrisy and contempt for the working class knows no bounds. That's a given, isn't it? And, of course, lefties are the only ones who throw insults around and denigrate their political opponents. If only we could be as *good* as people who hold right wing beliefs. But we're not: we are bad.Charles said:
Not just the last few days.John_M said:I have to say that the comments by the lefties on here over the last few days, and particularly this morning, have enlightened me as to why they never elect women leaders; it's not just their ideas on government that are stuck in the 70s.
Roger spent a long time trying to justify sexual harrassment by some favoured lefty (I forget who) on the ground that when he worked with young women they understood that wandering hands were part of the deal.0 -
The other problem was that quite a number of the activist types took to the theme - much as moron Democrat activists in the US claiming "that we won't need the white vote anymore".SouthamObserver said:
This is constructed entirely around one article by one relatively minor functionary that was subsequently withdrawn and has always been denied. People will believe what they want to believe, though; and, to be fair, Labour has provided a lot of ammunition. Rotherham is a stain that will take years to erase because the political correctness Labour championed was undoubtedly used as a shield by both wicked and lazy people to look the other way.The_Apocalypse said:@Morris_Dancer I refuse to believe that story that the entire Labour government was pro-immigration to 'rub the Right's faces in diversity'. It may have been one or two people, but the entire government?
I always wonder why people who make such stupid statements dislike the BNP - they seem to working so very hard to increase their vote.
Personal anecdote alert : Way back, when Blair was still in, I was holding a dinner party in Hampstead. The other white person there made remarks to the effect that white people like me (aka moderate Conservative) would be buried by the immigrants, and there would Labour governments for ever. Meaning everyone else at the table, I suppose. I giggled, and started a debate on hanging. By the end the progressive wasn't very happy....0 -
Yep. I'm now seeing women who voted Trump concerned about the GOP's plans in regard to planned parenthood. I'm like, haven't you noticed GOP's stance on planned parenthood? Its been obvious for sometime now what they've wanted to do.OllyT said:
Trump/Farage/Le Pen have their moment in the sun right now, we lefties suspect we know where were headed but in reality we have no option but to sit it out and observe the consequences.The_Apocalypse said:
Yep. They now have to work on getting people out to vote in 2018 if they really want to send a message to Trump. I'm surprised Trump hasn't tweeted about the protestors. His team really must be telling him 'no.'SouthamObserver said:
If the protest turns into something that revolves around getting organised at a local level to ensure voter registrations, prevent GOIP voter suppression, increase anti-Trump turnout at state and federal elections and so on then it will have been a profoundly important event. If it doesn't, then it will not be - although at a minimum it did allow the world to see that President Trump will be as paranoid, snowflakey and mendacious as candidate Trump was.The_Apocalypse said:I knew the protest wasn't going to go down so well on this site. The left have always been done things like protesting and they should continue to do so. The role of the left is not to morph into a idenkit replica of the right and their way of doing things.
0 -
Fair point to you. What surprises me is how far Trump's views are away from the fundamentalist christian right of the Republican party.The_Apocalypse said:
I think this protest wasn't about Trump's sexual assault initially: it was about the argument of a women's choice (in regard to abortion). It then turned into a general anti-Trump protest. But after reading up on Clinton and his accusers, I agree that the Left also need to call him out too.NewsTaker said:
I wondered where all these protesting women were when we last had a POTUS accused of various acts against women and certainly guilty of abuse towards an intern? Anyone remember Bill Clinton? One of his accusers, Juanita Broaddrick summed it up last week " I am a survivor of sexual assault. I am one of the people you are supposedly marching for. I was r***** by Bill Clinton. Did you hear me? I am one of many that Bill Clinton assaulted. Where were you ladies when I was hurting and scared? This past year, I once again told about my horrific encounter with Bill Clinton. Where were you? You were silent because of your support for Hillary Clinton. Shame on you; all of you. I can finally move forward because your candidate, Hillary Clinton, and Bill Clinton, my abuser, no longer matter."TwistedFireStopper said:
I think a big part of it is that Trump just doesn't care about the protests. He'll see it as a Leftwing Democratic Women thing. They'll never vote for him, and nothing he could ever do would make them vote for him, so "feck 'em!"The_Apocalypse said:
Yep. They now have to work on getting people out to vote in 2018 if they really want to send a message to Trump. I'm surprised Trump hasn't tweeted about the protestors. His team really must be telling him 'no.'SouthamObserver said:
If the protest turns into something that revolves around getting organised at a local level to ensure voter registrations, prevent GOIP voter suppression, increase anti-Trump turnout at state and federal elections and so on then it will have been a profoundly important event. If it doesn't, then it will not be - although at a minimum it did allow the world to see that President Trump will be as paranoid, snowflakey and mendacious as candidate Trump was.The_Apocalypse said:I knew the protest wasn't going to go down so well on this site. The left have always been done things like protesting and they should continue to do so. The role of the left is not to morph into a idenkit replica of the right and their way of doing things.
http://www.mrcblog.com/2017/01/bill-clinton-rape-victims-unload-on-female-anti-trump-protesters-shame-on-all-of-you/
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The FDA (clue is in the name) might disagree with your assertion that good is unregulated in the USBarnesian said:
Yes. I've wondered whether US obesity is caused in part by the growth hormone in their beef. Probably not, but who knows.OldKingCole said:
You mean we’d have to dumb down to the Septic standards?Barnesian said:
And bad for us. Poorer food standards. ISDS court for multinationals. One thing it won't deliver - Taking Back Control.Pulpstar said:
The one thing Trump's cabinet is stuffed with is businessmen, I'd expect trade deals to be good for the USA.Scott_P said:
Who is the "we" in that statement. We, the British public, don't want to buy Chevy's for £10k. That's why we don't do it now. They're crap.Alanbrooke said:we should import lots of Chevys
we buy Chevy for £10k
they buy Jag for £40k
The US/EU tariffs are already relatively low. It is the regulations and standards that are the problem. US will insist for the UK that they are US standards. It might cause us problems exporting UK goods with US standard to the EU.
The US population are guinea pigs for the rest of us on food standards e.g. GM. The US approach is business led. You can use anything unless it is proven to be unsafe. The EU approach (and UK) is consumer led. You can use anything that is proven to be safe. There is a big gap in the middle. If we go for a US FTA we inevitably have to take the US approach.0 -
‘A’ lefty wrote bitch on heat. All the Hitler loving righties assumed he spoke for all of us.CarlottaVance said:
I think you'll find that today's discussion has been about what lefties wrote 'bitch in heat' 'giving a blo job while reading an autocue' rather than who they areSouthamObserver said:
If constant posts about how awful lefties are is not a form of virtue signalling I do not know what is.frpenkridge said:
I don't think the pb "right" claim to be good. They just think they are correct in their analysis of the political situation. It is the very very peculiar insistence of the "left" that they are the more virtuous that is irksome. It is very difficult to suppress an occasional sneer when some talk of abandoning Labour now that the party is threatening the interests of those who have the odd quarter of a million sloshing around in their bank account, unused.SouthamObserver said:
I think we all agree that us lefties are venal, wicked people who hate the UK and whose hypocrisy and contempt for the working class knows no bounds. That's a given, isn't it? And, of course, lefties are the only ones who throw insults around and denigrate their political opponents. If only we could be as *good* as people who hold right wing beliefs. But we're not: we are bad.Charles said:
Not just the last few days.John_M said:I have to say that the comments by the lefties on here over the last few days, and particularly this morning, have enlightened me as to why they never elect women leaders; it's not just their ideas on government that are stuck in the 70s.
Roger spent a long time trying to justify sexual harrassment by some favoured lefty (I forget who) on the ground that when he worked with young women they understood that wandering hands were part of the deal.
And don’t try and pretend that ALL righties aren’t Hitler lovers. Think about it. One said something like that, so obviously speaks for all.0 -
0
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@NewsTaker It's even more unbelievable that the same Christian Right voted in their droves for Trump!0
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There's also JFK as well.glw said:
Many Democrats managed to ignore Ted Kennedy's behaviour at Chappaquiddick. If they can push that to one side it's no wonder that Clinton got a pass from his supporters. And to be fair Republicans are just as bad when the try to make out that Nixon was a good President if you focus on the foreign policy successes and ignore all the malfeasance.NewsTaker said:I wondered where all these protesting women were when we last had a POTUS accused of various acts against women and certainly guilty of abuse towards an intern? Anyone remember Bill Clinton? One of his accusers, Juanita Broaddrick summed it up last week " I am a survivor of sexual assault. I am one of the people you are supposedly marching for. I was r***** by Bill Clinton. Did you hear me? I am one of many that Bill Clinton assaulted. Where were you ladies when I was hurting and scared? This past year, I once again told about my horrific encounter with Bill Clinton. Where were you? You were silent because of your support for Hillary Clinton. Shame on you; all of you. I can finally move forward because your candidate, Hillary Clinton, and Bill Clinton, my abuser, no longer matter."
http://www.mrcblog.com/2017/01/bill-clinton-rape-victims-unload-on-female-anti-trump-protesters-shame-on-all-of-you/
US politics as a whole is far too tolerant of the wicked providing they are winners.0 -
I always like the story that the guys at MITI saw that there were many memory chips in a computer, but one processor (back then). So they steered Japanese chip manufacture away from processors, and into memory.philiph said:
It depends on who benefits most....rcs1000 said:
Do you assume the margin is the same on DRAM and on microprocessors?philiph said:
4 have a set rate for each industry?rcs1000 said:
The Border Tax Adjustment (BTA) is the single biggest Trump policy position that no-one is talking about. And they're not talking about it for a number of reasons...CarlottaVance said:Why would it affect the UK disproportionately and would a reciprocal tax not help even things out?
In essence the BTA says anything imported into the US incurs a corporate tax liability equivalent to if said import was made in the US.
Now, at its simplest, this says to Ford "if you move production (and therefore taxes) down to Mexico, then expect to pay us the tax we're losing by the car being made there rather than here."
The problem is in the details. To stay within the (rough) framework of the WTO Treaties the US has signed, this is being couched as a revenue mechanism rather than a trade one. And it similarly needs - as part of both tax and WTO obligations - to be non-discriminatory.
We in the UK will suffer disproportionately because our exports are high margin - i.e. there's more tax that the US is missing out on than if you shipped them (say) iron ore where your margins are wafer thin.
The other people who would disproportionately suffer would be Middle Eastern countries who ship oil at $60 to the US, when it only costs them $5 to get it out the ground. I can't imagine many Saudi tankers will be heading towards the US. (This is, therefore, a huge bonus relatively to Canadian oil sands, where the cost of extraction is enormous and the profit per barrel low.)
There are a lot of 'devil is in the details' about this because the border tax has to work in one of three ways:
1. The company importing has to show what its exact profit on said item is. (Making it extremely bureaucratic.)
2. The US govt has to charge it on the pre-tax profit rate of said corporate. (Making it a massive subsidy to Amazon.)
3. Or the US govt has to have authority to estimate tax burdens on a case-by-case basis. (Making it extremely susceptible to corruption from border agents.)0 -
It's more Trump going off script and praising independence I'd worry about....malcolmg said:
For sure they won't want Saint Theresa massively overshadowed and shown up.CarlottaVance said:
I think he's going to have to settle for a visit to the queen......talks of 'round of golf at Balmoral' - which is a bit tricky as its a private, not state residence and she goes there for her hols......Pong said:
That last one could be quite a big carrot to hang in front of donald.Pong said:
Probably worth giving it a go.edmundintokyo said:
Just to put that point a bit more strongly, if there's ever been a leader it's worth meeting personally, it's Trump.TwistedFireStopper said:You can march as far as you want, burn limos, chuck rocks through shop windows, wave your well thought out placards and scream on twitter until your lungs explode, but Trump is still President. He is barmier than I thought he would be, and the first day or so hasn't exactly filled me with hope, but the US system made him top dog, and we have to deal with him. May is right to go and see him. Every world leader will need to meet him.
Normally a president will already have well thought-out views, and will also have advice from experts. It's probably quite unusual to be able to substantially sway their opinion by talking to them personally.
As far as we can tell, Trump is breathtakingly ignorant, has no settled political philosophy, goes with his gut and doesn't listen to advice. It's a long-shot but May's best bet is to get over there as fast as she possibly can, get him in a room, say a bunch of flattering things and try to get him to sign an agreement there and then before anybody else can stop him.
Heads of terms;
1. The windfarm near Donald's golf course gets moved.
2. US tariffs lowered by 95%
3. UK tariffs lowered by 5%
4. At least one nice story about Donald on the BBC every day.
5. We'll send the queen out for one last visit to America. Otherwise you're getting Charles.
Nothing legitimizes a president more than a visit from the queen.
He's going to want that. bigly.
Edit - and they're going to want to get him in & out of Scotland without meeting Mrs McTurnip.....0 -
Will Nicola call Indyref2?Theuniondivvie said:Answer the fucking question, part 4053.
It's close.
it's closer.
It's more likely.
That's a NO then...0 -
Margaret Beckett did perfectly well as Acting Leader following the death of John Smith. Pity that Barbara Castle did not run when Wilson stepped down in 1976.SouthamObserver said:
The explanation is a simple one: there has not been a candidate who commanded enough support among members. Which woman *should* Labour have chosen over Kinnock, Smith, Blair and Brown? I will give you Cooper over Corbyn, but almost everyone agrees that the campaign she ran in 2015 was very poor, so it's probably that which scuppered her rather than her gender.CarlottaVance said:
Still doesn't explain why Labour haven't had a female leader in the four decades since the Tories had one.....JWisemann said:
No. Women on the right are treated the same as men on the right - correctly, as greedy, narrow-minded graspers whose inability to look outside their own grubby self-serving motivations is dragging civilisation and the natural world headlong towards complete destruction.Sean_F said:
I think there's a view on the Left that women who support the Right are Uncle Toms, and that explains the sort of abuse that Esther McVey and Charlotte Leslie received.CarlottaVance said:
Just a coincidence then that the only two major parties in the UK never to have had a female leader are Labour & the Lib Dems?Roger said:
I don't think it's a left-right thing thoughAlanbrooke said:
RogerRoger said:
I'm not Labour anymore but without being sexist I'd always choose a woman over a man if an electable one was available. Yvette would have been a much better choice than Ed.Alanbrooke said:
so why dont you elect women ?Roger said:
You pompous arse!!John_M said:I have to say that the comments by the lefties on here over the last few days, and particularly this morning, have enlightened me as to why they never elect women leaders; it's not just their ideas on government that are stuck in the 70s.
I think this US election has changed everything. I spent some hours reading about the six times bankrupt Donald Trump last night and he really is a piece of work . A genuine misogynist and racist. Check out his work on the 'birther' story.
even the neandertals of the DUP have a woman leader
fact is you lefties just wont elect a woman
Imagine what you'd be writing if it was Labour who first had a female leader 40 years ago and the Tories still hadn't?0 -
No. As far as I'm aware you've never said anything worse that standard political knockabout. Although i do think you romanticise the welfare state excesively because it worked for you.SouthamObserver said:
I think we all agree that us lefties are venal, wicked people who hate the UK and whose hypocrisy and contempt for the working class knows no bounds. That's a given, isn't it? And, of course, lefties are the only ones who throw insults around and denigrate their political opponents. If only we could be as *good* as people who hold right wing beliefs. But we're not: we are bad.Charles said:
Not just the last few days.John_M said:I have to say that the comments by the lefties on here over the last few days, and particularly this morning, have enlightened me as to why they never elect women leaders; it's not just their ideas on government that are stuck in the 70s.
Roger spent a long time trying to justify sexual harrassment by some favoured lefty (I forget who) on the ground that when he worked with young women they understood that wandering hands were part of the deal.
Roger is a unpleasant sexist.0 -
So many people who employ sarcasm so much of the time are so CRAP at it.0
-
I thought it was that, but wasn't 100% sure so didn't post it!CarlottaVance said:
It's actually worse than that.Charles said:
Not just the last few days.John_M said:I have to say that the comments by the lefties on here over the last few days, and particularly this morning, have enlightened me as to why they never elect women leaders; it's not just their ideas on government that are stuck in the 70s.
Roger spent a long time trying to justify sexual harrassment by some favoured lefty (I forget who) on the ground that when he worked with young women they understood that wandering hands were part of the deal.
Roger was a robust defender of Jimmy Saville - 'witnesses not credible' 'parents fault' 'they knew what they were doing'......0 -
I am sure they held their noses, but given the alternative was Hillary I doubt they hesitated for a second, from the perspective of their ideology Hillary was much worse.The_Apocalypse said:@NewsTaker It's even more unbelievable that the same Christian Right voted in their droves for Trump!
0 -
Andrew Neil at his best. Diane Abbot almost lost her cool. You could hear the panic and anger rising in her voice.CornishBlue said:Diane Abbot being eaten alive on BBC One just now. Without any difficult questions.
All the Tories, UKIP or indeed the Lib Dems have to do to win any argument about Brexit (v. Labour) is simply show that interview to the electorate.
In answer to his question "if your objective is to remain a member of the single market, you must accept freedom of movement. Is that not correct?", the answer she should have given is "No it is not correct. It hasn't been tested. The negotiation hasn't begun. But the PM has thrown her hand in and will not even test that. She threw her hand in to preserve the unity of her party, not to further the interests of the UK".0 -
When it comes I know we can count on your vote (if you have one).Scott_P said:
Will Nicola call Indyref2?Theuniondivvie said:Answer the fucking question, part 4053.
It's close.
it's closer.
It's more likely.
That's a NO then...
Jack W: Lastly and this will shock many but Scotland should now opt for independence. There I said it. The will of the Scottish people on the EU, a matter of the most crucial significance for the future, was clear. Hopefully it will be an amicable uncoupling. I would vote for YES in SINDY2, if still around.
SINDY2 should take place within 18 months and a YES vote take effect on the date of BREXIT two years after Article 50 is enabled or before 2020 whichever is sooner.
Scott P: I agree0 -
https://twitter.com/JamieRoss7/status/821431871158571010malcolmg said:
WTF, as if TUBA would have any clue. Get over your hatred and enjoy your life. I know reality is difficult from tax exile , but you could at least try to get some objective opinions.CarlottaVance said:A second referendum is either “on the table”, “highly likely”, “more likely”, “off the table”, or “all but inevitable”. The First Minister seems to be approaching a second referendum in the way Simone Zaza approaches a World Cup penalty. An understanding of the swing voters from 2014 offers clues to why she is so reluctant to take her shot.
https://medium.com/@blairmcdougall/why-nicola-sturgeon-is-frozen-in-front-of-goal-4618fc79e078#.9q9t2pvol0 -
One person denied the behaviour, the other admitted on tape he sexually assaulted people.NewsTaker said:
Bill Clinton got a free ride from Democrat women. There were no mass protests. His wife clearly tolerated his behaviour yet the Democratic party thought that she was a fit and proper person to be POTUS....SouthamObserver said:
Bill Clinton was impeached. That's hardly a free ride.NewsTaker said:
Good points. Trump shows he is overly sensitive to such attacks. That said why is Trump dumped on and Bill Clinton gets a "free ride"?The_Apocalypse said:
I think the trouble is Trump is incredibly sensitive to criticism. This is a man who got wound up on twitter over losing the popular vote when he won the election anyway. Trump still goes on about Hillary even though she is essentially no longer relevant. So I think Trump wouldn't be too happy to see women not just in America, but across the world march against him. This is a guy who was so wound up about people saying that only 250k attended his inauguration that his press secretary had pictures of the inauguration in the WH press room to show how 'popular' the Donald is.TwistedFireStopper said:
I think a big part of it is that Trump just doesn't care about the protests. He'll see it as a Leftwing Democratic Women thing. They'll never vote for him, and nothing he could ever do would make them vote for him, so "feck 'em!"The_Apocalypse said:
Yep. They now have to work on getting people out to vote in 2018 if they really want to send a message to Trump. I'm surprised Trump hasn't tweeted about the protestors. His team really must be telling him 'no.'SouthamObserver said:
If the protest turns into something that revolves around getting organised at a local level to ensure voter registrations, prevent GOIP voter suppression, increase anti-Trump turnout at state and federal elections and so on then it will have been a profoundly important event. If it doesn't, then it will not be - although at a minimum it did allow the world to see that President Trump will be as paranoid, snowflakey and mendacious as candidate Trump was.The_Apocalypse said:I knew the protest wasn't going to go down so well on this site. The left have always been done things like protesting and they should continue to do so. The role of the left is not to morph into a idenkit replica of the right and their way of doing things.
0 -
In reality the negotiation has begun of course, all sorts of civil servants on all sides will have been sounding out the playing field for months. They won't know the details, because all sides are being rightly closed mouthed about their ultimate position. But everyone is going to have a fair idea of what is going to be up for negotiation, and what is never going to be on the table. The EU have made it abundantly clear in High Definition and from multiple vantage points the the four freedoms are indivisible, and if you are in the single market all must apply to all members.Barnesian said:
Andrew Neil at his best. Diane Abbot almost lost her cool. You could hear the panic and anger rising in her voice.CornishBlue said:Diane Abbot being eaten alive on BBC One just now. Without any difficult questions.
All the Tories, UKIP or indeed the Lib Dems have to do to win any argument about Brexit (v. Labour) is simply show that interview to the electorate.
In answer to his question "if your objective is to remain a member of the single market, you must accept freedom of movement. Is that not correct?", the answer she should have given is "No it is not correct. It hasn't been tested. The negotiation hasn't begun. But the PM has thrown her hand in and will not even test that. She threw her hand in to preserve the unity of her party, not to further the interests of the UK".0 -
Wouldn't it be more worrying if a senior member of the Cabinet had not known?Theuniondivvie said:Answer the fucking question, part 4053.
https://twitter.com/WikiGuido/status/8231102292400087060 -
Others defended him, then a second offered the b-j analogy.OldKingCole said:
‘A’ lefty wrote bitch on heat. All the Hitler loving righties assumed he spoke for all of us.CarlottaVance said:
I think you'll find that today's discussion has been about what lefties wrote 'bitch in heat' 'giving a blo job while reading an autocue' rather than who they areSouthamObserver said:
If constant posts about how awful lefties are is not a form of virtue signalling I do not know what is.frpenkridge said:
I don't think the pb "right" claim to be good. They just think they are correct in their analysis of the political situation. It is the very very peculiar insistence of the "left" that they are the more virtuous that is irksome. It is very difficult to suppress an occasional sneer when some talk of abandoning Labour now that the party is threatening the interests of those who have the odd quarter of a million sloshing around in their bank account, unused.SouthamObserver said:
I think we all agree that us lefties are venal, wicked people who hate the UK and whose hypocrisy and contempt for the working class knows no bounds. That's a given, isn't it? And, of course, lefties are the only ones who throw insults around and denigrate their political opponents. If only we could be as *good* as people who hold right wing beliefs. But we're not: we are bad.Charles said:
Not just the last few days.John_M said:I have to say that the comments by the lefties on here over the last few days, and particularly this morning, have enlightened me as to why they never elect women leaders; it's not just their ideas on government that are stuck in the 70s.
Roger spent a long time trying to justify sexual harrassment by some favoured lefty (I forget who) on the ground that when he worked with young women they understood that wandering hands were part of the deal.
But it still comes back to criticism of behaviour vs people
0 -
The significance of the marches in the UK were that they remind our government that plenty of people- and not just from the left- won't take kindly to our PM nuzzling Trump's ear like Blair did to Bush. The reflected odium at her preening herself on her position in the queue has now been noted and shown to have consequencesnunu said:
The women's march was way bigger than I thought it would be. I know they say protests don't make a difference but I just wonder how many groups got attention who otherwise wouldn't havee. And now have donations, people donating and volunteering for those groups.The_Apocalypse said:I knew the protest wasn't going to go down so well on this site. The left have always been done things like protesting and they should continue to do so. The role of the left is not to morph into a idenkit replica of the right and their way of doing things.
The left must march and protest it is in their DNA. They don't turnout to vote unless really motivated and marches and rallies like these are the precursor to that.0 -
Politics is dirty. While accusing the left of hypocrisy, the right hypocritically avoids admitting that its real message is as follows:
"Everyone's an arsehole, and the biggest most committed arseholes will always win, so losers gonna lose, so it's our world not yours, so the hell with all you snowflakes who say you believe in right and wrong, you dirty whinging losers with your pathetic morality and feelings".
The least hypocritical among the rightwingers are those who say that openly.0 -
Very difficult to be sarcastic in print.Dromedary said:So many people who employ sarcasm so much of the time are so CRAP at it.
0 -
Yep, much better to have a sexual predator who publicly mocks the disabled in the White House.AlsoIndigo said:
I am sure they held their noses, but given the alternative was Hillary I doubt they hesitated for a second, from the perspective of their ideology Hillary was much worse.The_Apocalypse said:@NewsTaker It's even more unbelievable that the same Christian Right voted in their droves for Trump!
0 -
There have been more recent polls showing Scots put control of free movement ahead of single market access than with Scots backing independenceTheuniondivvie said:
When it comes I know we can count on your vote (if you have one).Scott_P said:
Will Nicola call Indyref2?Theuniondivvie said:Answer the fucking question, part 4053.
It's close.
it's closer.
It's more likely.
That's a NO then...
Jack W: Lastly and this will shock many but Scotland should now opt for independence. There I said it. The will of the Scottish people on the EU, a matter of the most crucial significance for the future, was clear. Hopefully it will be an amicable uncoupling. I would vote for YES in SINDY2, if still around.
SINDY2 should take place within 18 months and a YES vote take effect on the date of BREXIT two years after Article 50 is enabled or before 2020 whichever is sooner.
Scott P: I agree0 -
what guffRoger said:
The significance of the marches in the UK were that they remind our government that plenty of people- and not just from the left- won't take kindly to our PM nuzzling Trump's ear like Blair did to Bush. The reflected odium at her preening herself on her position in the queue has now been noted and shown to have consequencesnunu said:
The women's march was way bigger than I thought it would be. I know they say protests don't make a difference but I just wonder how many groups got attention who otherwise wouldn't havee. And now have donations, people donating and volunteering for those groups.The_Apocalypse said:I knew the protest wasn't going to go down so well on this site. The left have always been done things like protesting and they should continue to do so. The role of the left is not to morph into a idenkit replica of the right and their way of doing things.
The left must march and protest it is in their DNA. They don't turnout to vote unless really motivated and marches and rallies like these are the precursor to that.
the marches are simply middle class english dickheads trying to feel good about themselves
May should just ignore them, interfering in another country's domestic issues never ends well0 -
Mr. Dromedary, why have you persuaded yourself that those who have a different economic/social perspective are evil?
There's nothing inherently superior/inferior about preferring a high tax/high spending or low tax/low spending approach. It's just a judgement call about where to draw the line.
I'm not doing wonderfully financially at the moment *cough*buymybook*cough* but I'm on the right for most things. That would seem to contradict your view on the right as some sort of synonym for Social Darwinism.
Miss Vance, the 'behaviour versus people' line is an excellent one for explaining the frankly bizarre Twitter threads yesterday whereby grown men and women were gleefully endorsing political violence [for those who missed it, check Miss Cyclefree's thread yesterday and search for the term 'Brooker' to find my post].0 -
It such a relief that you are not in government Roger, you would throw away political and economic advantage in a second if it mean you could feel good about yourself for a few minutes.Roger said:
The significance of the marches in the UK were that they remind our government that plenty of people- and not just from the left- won't take kindly to our PM nuzzling Trump's ear like Blair did to Bush. The reflected odium at her preening herself on her position in the queue has now been noted and shown to have consequencesnunu said:
The women's march was way bigger than I thought it would be. I know they say protests don't make a difference but I just wonder how many groups got attention who otherwise wouldn't havee. And now have donations, people donating and volunteering for those groups.The_Apocalypse said:I knew the protest wasn't going to go down so well on this site. The left have always been done things like protesting and they should continue to do so. The role of the left is not to morph into a idenkit replica of the right and their way of doing things.
The left must march and protest it is in their DNA. They don't turnout to vote unless really motivated and marches and rallies like these are the precursor to that.0 -
Food is less regulated than drugs. Here is a quote from the FDA website.Charles said:
The FDA (clue is in the name) might disagree with your assertion that good is unregulated in the USBarnesian said:
Yes. I've wondered whether US obesity is caused in part by the growth hormone in their beef. Probably not, but who knows.OldKingCole said:
You mean we’d have to dumb down to the Septic standards?Barnesian said:
And bad for us. Poorer food standards. ISDS court for multinationals. One thing it won't deliver - Taking Back Control.Pulpstar said:
The one thing Trump's cabinet is stuffed with is businessmen, I'd expect trade deals to be good for the USA.Scott_P said:
Who is the "we" in that statement. We, the British public, don't want to buy Chevy's for £10k. That's why we don't do it now. They're crap.Alanbrooke said:we should import lots of Chevys
we buy Chevy for £10k
they buy Jag for £40k
The US/EU tariffs are already relatively low. It is the regulations and standards that are the problem. US will insist for the UK that they are US standards. It might cause us problems exporting UK goods with US standard to the EU.
The US population are guinea pigs for the rest of us on food standards e.g. GM. The US approach is business led. You can use anything unless it is proven to be unsafe. The EU approach (and UK) is consumer led. You can use anything that is proven to be safe. There is a big gap in the middle. If we go for a US FTA we inevitably have to take the US approach.
"Under 21 CFR 170.30(c) and 170.3(f), general recognition of safety through experience based on common use in foods requires a substantial history of consumption for food use by a significant number of consumers."0 -
Mr. Brooke, are you suggesting May should put such considerations at the back of the queue?0
-
For the Christian right it was the SCOTUS pick(s) that drove turnout.SouthamObserver said:
Yep, much better to have a sexual predator who publicly mocks the disabled in the White House.AlsoIndigo said:
I am sure they held their noses, but given the alternative was Hillary I doubt they hesitated for a second, from the perspective of their ideology Hillary was much worse.The_Apocalypse said:@NewsTaker It's even more unbelievable that the same Christian Right voted in their droves for Trump!
0 -
A lot of Trump supporters are also about to find out they are going to lose their medical coverage. His first act as President was to make it more expensive for working people to buy houses, his second was to make access to healthcare more expensive. The swamp is being drained.The_Apocalypse said:
Yep. I'm now seeing women who voted Trump concerned about the GOP's plans in regard to planned parenthood. I'm like, haven't you noticed GOP's stance on planned parenthood? Its been obvious for sometime now what they've wanted to do.OllyT said:
Trump/Farage/Le Pen have their moment in the sun right now, we lefties suspect we know where were headed but in reality we have no option but to sit it out and observe the consequences.The_Apocalypse said:
Yep. They now have to work on getting people out to vote in 2018 if they really want to send a message to Trump. I'm surprised Trump hasn't tweeted about the protestors. His team really must be telling him 'no.'SouthamObserver said:
If the protest turns into something that revolves around getting organised at a local level to ensure voter registrations, prevent GOIP voter suppression, increase anti-Trump turnout at state and federal elections and so on then it will have been a profoundly important event. If it doesn't, then it will not be - although at a minimum it did allow the world to see that President Trump will be as paranoid, snowflakey and mendacious as candidate Trump was.The_Apocalypse said:I knew the protest wasn't going to go down so well on this site. The left have always been done things like protesting and they should continue to do so. The role of the left is not to morph into a idenkit replica of the right and their way of doing things.
0 -
For sensible people, probably not, for the Christian Right, for whom Hillary Clinton has been the anti-christ for years, maybe.SouthamObserver said:
Yep, much better to have a sexual predator who publicly mocks the disabled in the White House.AlsoIndigo said:
I am sure they held their noses, but given the alternative was Hillary I doubt they hesitated for a second, from the perspective of their ideology Hillary was much worse.The_Apocalypse said:@NewsTaker It's even more unbelievable that the same Christian Right voted in their droves for Trump!
0 -
Bill ?SouthamObserver said:
Yep, much better to have a sexual predator who publicly mocks the disabled in the White House.AlsoIndigo said:
I am sure they held their noses, but given the alternative was Hillary I doubt they hesitated for a second, from the perspective of their ideology Hillary was much worse.The_Apocalypse said:@NewsTaker It's even more unbelievable that the same Christian Right voted in their droves for Trump!
0 -
"The aide said that guys like me were "in what we call the reality-based community," which he defined as people who "believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality." I nodded and murmured something about enlightenment principles and empiricism. He cut me off. "That's not the way the world really works anymore." He continued "We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality—judiciously, as you will—we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors … and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do." - Karl RoveDromedary said:Politics is dirty. While accusing the left of hypocrisy, the right hypocritically avoids admitting that its real message is as follows:
"Everyone's an arsehole, and the biggest most committed arseholes will always win, so losers gonna lose, so it's our world not yours, so the hell with all you snowflakes who say you believe in right and wrong, you dirty whinging losers with your pathetic morality and feelings".
The least hypocritical among the rightwingers are those who say that openly.0 -
We need a diplomatic relationship with the USA, especially seeing as the country voted to weaken the one with the EU countries.Roger said:
The significance of the marches in the UK were that they remind our government that plenty of people- and not just from the left- won't take kindly to our PM nuzzling Trump's ear like Blair did to Bush. The reflected odium at her preening herself on her position in the queue has now been noted and shown to have consequencesnunu said:
The women's march was way bigger than I thought it would be. I know they say protests don't make a difference but I just wonder how many groups got attention who otherwise wouldn't havee. And now have donations, people donating and volunteering for those groups.The_Apocalypse said:I knew the protest wasn't going to go down so well on this site. The left have always been done things like protesting and they should continue to do so. The role of the left is not to morph into a idenkit replica of the right and their way of doing things.
The left must march and protest it is in their DNA. They don't turnout to vote unless really motivated and marches and rallies like these are the precursor to that.0 -
They could chat with Mrs Merkel while she waitsMorris_Dancer said:Mr. Brooke, are you suggesting May should put such considerations at the back of the queue?
0 -
As a couple of examples from the Wimmins Protest - dressing up as giant vaginas, carrying placards demanding all men should die and writing campaigning messages on sanitary pads is probably a good indicator of the distance between the two groups.NewsTaker said:
Fair point to you. What surprises me is how far Trump's views are away from the fundamentalist christian right of the Republican party.The_Apocalypse said:
I think this protest wasn't about Trump's sexual assault initially: it was about the argument of a women's choice (in regard to abortion). It then turned into a general anti-Trump protest. But after reading up on Clinton and his accusers, I agree that the Left also need to call him out too.NewsTaker said:
I wondered where all these protesting women were when we last had a POTUS accused of various acts against women and certainly guilty of abuse towards an intern? Anyone remember Bill Clinton? One of his accusers, Juanita Broaddrick summed it up last week " I am a survivor of sexual assault. I am one of the people you are supposedly marching for. I was r***** by Bill Clinton. Did you hear me? I am one of many that Bill Clinton assaulted. Where were you ladies when I was hurting and scared? This past year, I once again told about my horrific encounter with Bill Clinton. Where were you? You were silent because of your support for Hillary Clinton. Shame on you; all of you. I can finally move forward because your candidate, Hillary Clinton, and Bill Clinton, my abuser, no longer matter."TwistedFireStopper said:
I think a big part of it is that Trump just doesn't care about the protests. He'll see it as a Leftwing Democratic Women thing. They'll never vote for him, and nothing he could ever do would make them vote for him, so "feck 'em!"The_Apocalypse said:
Yep. They now have to work on getting people out to vote in 2018 if they really want to send a message to Trump. I'm surprised Trump hasn't tweeted about the protestors. His team really must be telling him 'no.'SouthamObserver said:
If the protest turns into something that revolves around getting organised at a local level to ensure voter registrations, prevent GOIP voter suppression, increase anti-Trump turnout at state and federal elections and so on then it will have been a profoundly important event. If it doesn't, then it will not be - although at a minimum it did allow the world to see that President Trump will be as paranoid, snowflakey and mendacious as candidate Trump was.The_Apocalypse said:snip
http://www.mrcblog.com/2017/01/bill-clinton-rape-victims-unload-on-female-anti-trump-protesters-shame-on-all-of-you/0 -
Yep - they wanted a sexual predator who mocks the disabled to make the picks.MaxPB said:
For the Christian right it was the SCOTUS pick(s) that drove turnout.SouthamObserver said:
Yep, much better to have a sexual predator who publicly mocks the disabled in the White House.AlsoIndigo said:
I am sure they held their noses, but given the alternative was Hillary I doubt they hesitated for a second, from the perspective of their ideology Hillary was much worse.The_Apocalypse said:@NewsTaker It's even more unbelievable that the same Christian Right voted in their droves for Trump!
0 -
Why do that when you can have fun marching with people who already agree with you, and enjoy demonising those who don't?Sean_F said:
It's a more fruitful use of time to figure out why you lost, and what you need to do to win next time.PlatoSaid said:
I'd a peek at Twitter in the small hours - and I ended crying with laughter at some of the ridiculous antics, wailing, unfortunate photos of protestors.TwistedFireStopper said:You can march as far as you want, burn limos, chuck rocks through shop windows, wave your well thought out placards and scream on twitter until your lungs explode, but Trump is still President. He is barmier than I thought he would be, and the first day or so hasn't exactly filled me with hope, but the US system made him top dog, and we have to deal with him. May is right to go and see him. Every world leader will need to meet him.
Oh, and you Labour fellas really don't do your party any favours with the way you talk about women who don't share your political beliefs. Stay classy, lads.
The interweb never forgets - and I'd die of embarrassment if I appeared in any of them.0 -
You're saying two things here: "feel good" and "for a few minutes". And on the other side of the opposition you are positing, you place skill at playing an advantage.AlsoIndigo said:
It such a relief that you are not in government Roger, you would throw away political and economic advantage in a second if it mean you could feel good about yourself for a few minutes.Roger said:
The significance of the marches in the UK were that they remind our government that plenty of people- and not just from the left- won't take kindly to our PM nuzzling Trump's ear like Blair did to Bush. The reflected odium at her preening herself on her position in the queue has now been noted and shown to have consequencesnunu said:
The women's march was way bigger than I thought it would be. I know they say protests don't make a difference but I just wonder how many groups got attention who otherwise wouldn't havee. And now have donations, people donating and volunteering for those groups.The_Apocalypse said:I knew the protest wasn't going to go down so well on this site. The left have always been done things like protesting and they should continue to do so. The role of the left is not to morph into a idenkit replica of the right and their way of doing things.
The left must march and protest it is in their DNA. They don't turnout to vote unless really motivated and marches and rallies like these are the precursor to that.
Does playing an advantage outscore feeling good for longer than a few minutes because someone - let's say they are in government - has actually done good?
Or is the very question rubbish, in this dog-eat-dog society?
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He is a bit forgetful and does like to back both sides so he can say he was with the winnerTheuniondivvie said:
When it comes I know we can count on your vote (if you have one).Scott_P said:
Will Nicola call Indyref2?Theuniondivvie said:Answer the fucking question, part 4053.
It's close.
it's closer.
It's more likely.
That's a NO then...
Jack W: Lastly and this will shock many but Scotland should now opt for independence. There I said it. The will of the Scottish people on the EU, a matter of the most crucial significance for the future, was clear. Hopefully it will be an amicable uncoupling. I would vote for YES in SINDY2, if still around.
SINDY2 should take place within 18 months and a YES vote take effect on the date of BREXIT two years after Article 50 is enabled or before 2020 whichever is sooner.
Scott P: I agree0 -
What a lot of tosh. Its the left that scream about hatred of the right, the right just think the left are wrong. I am on the right to some extent, I am big, and committed and broke, clearly I am going wrong somewhere, perhaps I am letting my morals get in the way spending most of my time teaching poor kids for nothing, oh no, I forgot we righties dont have those.Dromedary said:Politics is dirty. While accusing the left of hypocrisy, the right hypocritically avoids admitting that its real message is as follows:
"Everyone's an arsehole, and the biggest most committed arseholes will always win, so losers gonna lose, so it's our world not yours, so the hell with all you snowflakes who say you believe in right and wrong, you dirty whinging losers with your pathetic morality and feelings".
The least hypocritical among the rightwingers are those who say that openly.0 -
Other than Mr Meek (briefly) , no one wants to talk about Bercow, the subject of the thread.
Why is this?0 -
Demonstrating like that seems to me on the far side of cuckoo!PlatoSaid said:
As a couple of examples from the Wimmins Protest - dressing up as giant vaginas, carrying placards demanding all men should die and writing campaigning messages on sanitary pads is probably a good indicator of the distance between the two groups.NewsTaker said:
Fair point to you. What surprises me is how far Trump's views are away from the fundamentalist christian right of the Republican party.The_Apocalypse said:
I think this protest wasn't about Trump's sexual assault initially: it was about the argument of a women's choice (in regard to abortion). It then turned into a general anti-Trump protest. But after reading up on Clinton and his accusers, I agree that the Left also need to call him out too.NewsTaker said:
I wondered where all these protesting women were when we last had a POTUS accused of various acts against women and certainly guilty of abuse towards an intern? Anyone remember Bill Clinton? One of his accusers, Juanita Broaddrick summed it up last week " I am a survivor of sexual assault. I am one of the people you are supposedly marching for. I was r***** by Bill Clinton. Did you hear me? I am one of many that Bill Clinton assaulted. Where were you ladies when I was hurting and scared? This past year, I once again told about my horrific encounter with Bill Clinton. Where were you? You were silent because of your support for Hillary Clinton. Shame on you; all of you. I can finally move forward because your candidate, Hillary Clinton, and Bill Clinton, my abuser, no longer matter."TwistedFireStopper said:
I think a big part of it is that Trump just doesn't care about the protests. He'll see it as a Leftwing Democratic Women thing. They'll never vote for him, and nothing he could ever do would make them vote for him, so "feck 'em!"The_Apocalypse said:
'SouthamObserver said:
If the protest turns into something that revolves around getting organised at a local level to ensure voter registrations, prevent GOIP voter suppression, increase anti-Trump turnout at state and federal elections and so on then it will have been a profoundly important event. If it doesn't, then it will not be - although at a minimum it did allow the world to see that President Trump will be as paranoid, snowflakey and mendacious as candidate Trump was.The_Apocalypse said:snip
http://www.mrcblog.com/2017/01/bill-clinton-rape-victims-unload-on-female-anti-trump-protesters-shame-on-all-of-you/0 -
There are quite few people who believe that the ACA is a totally different thing to Obamacare. This is an example: http://www.dailydot.com/unclick/obamacare-aca-trump-supporter-viral/SouthamObserver said:
A lot of Trump supporters are also about to find out they are going to lose their medical coverage. His first act as President was to make it more expensive for working people to buy houses, his second was to make access to healthcare more expensive. The swamp is being drained.The_Apocalypse said:
Yep. I'm now seeing women who voted Trump concerned about the GOP's plans in regard to planned parenthood. I'm like, haven't you noticed GOP's stance on planned parenthood? Its been obvious for sometime now what they've wanted to do.OllyT said:
Trump/Farage/Le Pen have their moment in the sun right now, we lefties suspect we know where were headed but in reality we have no option but to sit it out and observe the consequences.The_Apocalypse said:
Yep. They now have to work on getting people out to vote in 2018 if they really want to send a message to Trump. I'm surprised Trump hasn't tweeted about the protestors. His team really must be telling him 'no.'SouthamObserver said:
If the protest turns into something that revolves around getting organised at a local level to ensure voter registrations, prevent GOIP voter suppression, increase anti-Trump turnout at state and federal elections and so on then it will have been a profoundly important event. If it doesn't, then it will not be - although at a minimum it did allow the world to see that President Trump will be as paranoid, snowflakey and mendacious as candidate Trump was.The_Apocalypse said:I knew the protest wasn't going to go down so well on this site. The left have always been done things like protesting and they should continue to do so. The role of the left is not to morph into a idenkit replica of the right and their way of doing things.
CNN actually talked to Trump supporters who are concerned about losing certain aspects of Obamacare: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oqnk4kt2Z-c
And I just shook my head when I read that Trump's first action was to stop the FHA mortgage insurance cut.0 -
Virtue signaller.Alanbrooke said:
what guffRoger said:
The significance of the marches in the UK were that they remind our government that plenty of people- and not just from the left- won't take kindly to our PM nuzzling Trump's ear like Blair did to Bush. The reflected odium at her preening herself on her position in the queue has now been noted and shown to have consequencesnunu said:
The women's march was way bigger than I thought it would be. I know they say protests don't make a difference but I just wonder how many groups got attention who otherwise wouldn't havee. And now have donations, people donating and volunteering for those groups.The_Apocalypse said:I knew the protest wasn't going to go down so well on this site. The left have always been done things like protesting and they should continue to do so. The role of the left is not to morph into a idenkit replica of the right and their way of doing things.
The left must march and protest it is in their DNA. They don't turnout to vote unless really motivated and marches and rallies like these are the precursor to that.
the marches are simply middle class english dickheads trying to feel good about themselves
May should just ignore them, interfering in another country's domestic issues never ends well
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The four freedoms (goods, services, capital, labour) are to support the single market in furthering trade. Labour is jobs not citizenship. The extension to citizenship had a political motive (ever closer union) not a trade motive. So it is divisible. There are also fudges available e.g. taking up the seven year adjustment period rejected by Blair in 2004. There was plenty to negotiate (including a big sum of money to help balance the EU budget) but she didn't even try.AlsoIndigo said:
In reality the negotiation has begun of course, all sorts of civil servants on all sides will have been sounding out the playing field for months. They won't know the details, because all sides are being rightly closed mouthed about their ultimate position. But everyone is going to have a fair idea of what is going to be up for negotiation, and what is never going to be on the table. The EU have made it abundantly clear in High Definition and from multiple vantage points the the four freedoms are indivisible, and if you are in the single market all must apply to all members.Barnesian said:
Andrew Neil at his best. Diane Abbot almost lost her cool. You could hear the panic and anger rising in her voice.CornishBlue said:Diane Abbot being eaten alive on BBC One just now. Without any difficult questions.
All the Tories, UKIP or indeed the Lib Dems have to do to win any argument about Brexit (v. Labour) is simply show that interview to the electorate.
In answer to his question "if your objective is to remain a member of the single market, you must accept freedom of movement. Is that not correct?", the answer she should have given is "No it is not correct. It hasn't been tested. The negotiation hasn't begun. But the PM has thrown her hand in and will not even test that. She threw her hand in to preserve the unity of her party, not to further the interests of the UK".0 -
In reality they didn't want Clinton and chose what they perceived to be the lesser evil.SouthamObserver said:
Yep - they wanted a sexual predator who mocks the disabled to make the picks.MaxPB said:
For the Christian right it was the SCOTUS pick(s) that drove turnout.SouthamObserver said:
Yep, much better to have a sexual predator who publicly mocks the disabled in the White House.AlsoIndigo said:
I am sure they held their noses, but given the alternative was Hillary I doubt they hesitated for a second, from the perspective of their ideology Hillary was much worse.The_Apocalypse said:@NewsTaker It's even more unbelievable that the same Christian Right voted in their droves for Trump!
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I can only ever hope to follow in your wakeSouthamObserver said:
Virtue signaller.Alanbrooke said:
what guffRoger said:
The significance of the marches in the UK were that they remind our government that plenty of people- and not just from the left- won't take kindly to our PM nuzzling Trump's ear like Blair did to Bush. The reflected odium at her preening herself on her position in the queue has now been noted and shown to have consequencesnunu said:
The women's march was way bigger than I thought it would be. I know they say protests don't make a difference but I just wonder how many groups got attention who otherwise wouldn't havee. And now have donations, people donating and volunteering for those groups.The_Apocalypse said:I knew the protest wasn't going to go down so well on this site. The left have always been done things like protesting and they should continue to do so. The role of the left is not to morph into a idenkit replica of the right and their way of doing things.
The left must march and protest it is in their DNA. They don't turnout to vote unless really motivated and marches and rallies like these are the precursor to that.
the marches are simply middle class english dickheads trying to feel good about themselves
May should just ignore them, interfering in another country's domestic issues never ends well0 -
A quick perusal of this website on any given day demonstrates that it is simply false to claim that "the right just think the left are wrong". Indeed, your very own post above demonstrates that you think that the left is morally deficient.AlsoIndigo said:
What a lot of tosh. Its the left that scream about hatred of the right, the right just think the left are wrong. I am on the right to some extent, I am big, and committed and broke, clearly I am going wrong somewhere, perhaps I am letting my morals get in the way spending most of my time teaching poor kids for nothing, oh no, I forgot we righties dont have those.Dromedary said:Politics is dirty. While accusing the left of hypocrisy, the right hypocritically avoids admitting that its real message is as follows:
"Everyone's an arsehole, and the biggest most committed arseholes will always win, so losers gonna lose, so it's our world not yours, so the hell with all you snowflakes who say you believe in right and wrong, you dirty whinging losers with your pathetic morality and feelings".
The least hypocritical among the rightwingers are those who say that openly.
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The seven year adjustment period was a one-off transition that has expired already, not a permanent feature.Barnesian said:
The four freedoms (goods, services, capital, labour) are to support the single market in furthering trade. Labour is jobs not citizenship. The extension to citizenship had a political motive (ever closer union) not a trade motive. So it is divisible. There are also fudges available e.g. taking up the seven year adjustment period rejected by Blair in 2004. There was plenty to negotiate (including a big sum of money to help balance the EU budget) but she didn't even try.AlsoIndigo said:
In reality the negotiation has begun of course, all sorts of civil servants on all sides will have been sounding out the playing field for months. They won't know the details, because all sides are being rightly closed mouthed about their ultimate position. But everyone is going to have a fair idea of what is going to be up for negotiation, and what is never going to be on the table. The EU have made it abundantly clear in High Definition and from multiple vantage points the the four freedoms are indivisible, and if you are in the single market all must apply to all members.Barnesian said:
Andrew Neil at his best. Diane Abbot almost lost her cool. You could hear the panic and anger rising in her voice.CornishBlue said:Diane Abbot being eaten alive on BBC One just now. Without any difficult questions.
All the Tories, UKIP or indeed the Lib Dems have to do to win any argument about Brexit (v. Labour) is simply show that interview to the electorate.
In answer to his question "if your objective is to remain a member of the single market, you must accept freedom of movement. Is that not correct?", the answer she should have given is "No it is not correct. It hasn't been tested. The negotiation hasn't begun. But the PM has thrown her hand in and will not even test that. She threw her hand in to preserve the unity of her party, not to further the interests of the UK".0
