I have to say that the comments by the lefties on here over the last few days, and particularly this morning, have enlightened me as to why they never elect women leaders; it's not just their ideas on government that are stuck in the 70s.
Not just the last few days.
Roger spent a long time trying to justify sexual harrassment by some favoured lefty (I forget who) on the ground that when he worked with young women they understood that wandering hands were part of the deal.
I think we all agree that us lefties are venal, wicked people who hate the UK and whose hypocrisy and contempt for the working class knows no bounds. That's a given, isn't it? And, of course, lefties are the only ones who throw insults around and denigrate their political opponents. If only we could be as *good* as people who hold right wing beliefs. But we're not: we are bad.
I don't think the pb "right" claim to be good. They just think they are correct in their analysis of the political situation. It is the very very peculiar insistence of the "left" that they are the more virtuous that is irksome. It is very difficult to suppress an occasional sneer when some talk of abandoning Labour now that the party is threatening the interests of those who have the odd quarter of a million sloshing around in their bank account, unused.
If constant posts about how awful lefties are is not a form of virtue signalling I do not know what is.
Ms. Apocalypse, Thatcher left power over a quarter of a century ago.
Mr. Wisemann, it's a little perplexing. Many of those who really love diversity seem to have a problem with it when it comes to political opinions. Someone disagreeing with you isn't a sign they're morally defective.
Yes. And my point is, is that even after she left office she was still hugely influential. Does anybody believe that Blair and New Labour would have happened without Thatcher?
Blair happened because John Smith died and Kinnock followed Smith?
The foundation for New Labour was in the works as far back as under Kinnock. For example, Mandelson was a key part of Kinnock's team and worked with both Brown and Blair under John Smith.
I knew the protest wasn't going to go down so well on this site. The left have always been done things like protesting and they should continue to do so. The role of the left is not to morph into a idenkit replica of the right and their way of doing things.
If the protest turns into something that revolves around getting organised at a local level to ensure voter registrations, prevent GOIP voter suppression, increase anti-Trump turnout at state and federal elections and so on then it will have been a profoundly important event. If it doesn't, then it will not be - although at a minimum it did allow the world to see that President Trump will be as paranoid, snowflakey and mendacious as candidate Trump was.
Yep. They now have to work on getting people out to vote in 2018 if they really want to send a message to Trump. I'm surprised Trump hasn't tweeted about the protestors. His team really must be telling him 'no.'
I think a big part of it is that Trump just doesn't care about the protests. He'll see it as a Leftwing Democratic Women thing. They'll never vote for him, and nothing he could ever do would make them vote for him, so "feck 'em!"
I wondered where all these protesting women were when we last had a POTUS accused of various acts against women and certainly guilty of abuse towards an intern? Anyone remember Bill Clinton? One of his accusers, Juanita Broaddrick summed it up last week " I am a survivor of sexual assault. I am one of the people you are supposedly marching for. I was r***** by Bill Clinton. Did you hear me? I am one of many that Bill Clinton assaulted. Where were you ladies when I was hurting and scared? This past year, I once again told about my horrific encounter with Bill Clinton. Where were you? You were silent because of your support for Hillary Clinton. Shame on you; all of you. I can finally move forward because your candidate, Hillary Clinton, and Bill Clinton, my abuser, no longer matter." http://www.mrcblog.com/2017/01/bill-clinton-rape-victims-unload-on-female-anti-trump-protesters-shame-on-all-of-you/
I have to say that the comments by the lefties on here over the last few days, and particularly this morning, have enlightened me as to why they never elect women leaders; it's not just their ideas on government that are stuck in the 70s.
Not just the last few days.
Roger spent a long time trying to justify sexual harrassment by some favoured lefty (I forget who) on the ground that when he worked with young women they understood that wandering hands were part of the deal.
I think we all agree that us lefties are venal, wicked people who hate the UK and whose hypocrisy and contempt for the working class knows no bounds. That's a given, isn't it? And, of course, lefties are the only ones who throw insults around and denigrate their political opponents. If only we could be as *good* as people who hold right wing beliefs. But we're not: we are bad.
I don't think the pb "right" claim to be good. They just think they are correct in their analysis of the political situation. It is the very very peculiar insistence of the "left" that they are the more virtuous that is irksome. It is very difficult to suppress an occasional sneer when some talk of abandoning Labour now that the party is threatening the interests of those who have the odd quarter of a million sloshing around in their bank account, unused.
It's the passive-aggressive bollox that typically follows that's really, truly gash-awful.
How annoying. My PayPal account has been compromised and I've had two hundred plus emails signing me up to subscriptions.
Credit to PayPal they caught fraudulent purchase of a phone within an hour or so. And promptly refunded my card. Haven't been a victim of this in over a decade so a timely reminder re security.
PayPal supports 2 factor auth using Verisign. Well worth it.
EDIT: I know Plato ignores my posts so maybe someone else could flag it for her.
I knew the protest wasn't going to go down so well on this site. The left have always been done things like protesting and they should continue to do so. The role of the left is not to morph into a idenkit replica of the right and their way of doing things.
If the protest turns into something that revolves around getting organised at a local level to ensure voter registrations, prevent GOIP voter suppression, increase anti-Trump turnout at state and federal elections and so on then it will have been a profoundly important event. If it doesn't, then it will not be - although at a minimum it did allow the world to see that President Trump will be as paranoid, snowflakey and mendacious as candidate Trump was.
Yep. They now have to work on getting people out to vote in 2018 if they really want to send a message to Trump. I'm surprised Trump hasn't tweeted about the protestors. His team really must be telling him 'no.'
I think a big part of it is that Trump just doesn't care about the protests. He'll see it as a Leftwing Democratic Women thing. They'll never vote for him, and nothing he could ever do would make them vote for him, so "feck 'em!"
I think the trouble is Trump is incredibly sensitive to criticism. This is a man who got wound up on twitter over losing the popular vote when he won the election anyway. Trump still goes on about Hillary even though she is essentially no longer relevant. So I think Trump wouldn't be too happy to see women not just in America, but across the world march against him. This is a guy who was so wound up about people saying that only 250k attended his inauguration that his press secretary had pictures of the inauguration in the WH press room to show how 'popular' the Donald is.
Good points. Trump shows he is overly sensitive to such attacks. That said why is Trump dumped on and Bill Clinton gets a "free ride"?
@Morris_Dancer I refuse to believe that story that the entire Labour government was pro-immigration to 'rub the Right's faces in diversity'. It may have been one or two people, but the entire government?
I come to this site most days to read and be 'entertained' but lately it has degenerated into nothing but a nasty cheap self opinionated one. Today especially reading Rogers posts I have come to the conclusion there is nothing worse than a bad loser. Once their arguments have been exhausted and found wanting they resort to abuse and ridicule. Roger you are behaving like a very spoiled child that when not getting his way lashes out with venom and hate. You should be ashamed. If you cant post or argue sensibly then you should just leave this site and fume alone. That goes for others that have nothing constructive to say. Nasty and very distateful all round
I come to this site most days to read and be 'entertained' but lately it has degenerated into nothing but a nasty cheap self opinionated one. Today especially reading Rogers posts I have come to the conclusion there is nothing worse than a bad loser. Once their arguments have been exhausted and found wanting they resort to abuse and ridicule. Roger you are behaving like a very spoiled child that when not getting his way lashes out with venom and hate. You should be ashamed. If you cant post or argue sensibly then you should just leave this site and fume alone. That goes for others that have nothing constructive to say. Nasty and very distateful all round
A second referendum is either “on the table”, “highly likely”, “more likely”, “off the table”, or “all but inevitable”. The First Minister seems to be approaching a second referendum in the way Simone Zaza approaches a World Cup penalty. An understanding of the swing voters from 2014 offers clues to why she is so reluctant to take her shot.
WTF, as if TUBA would have any clue. Get over your hatred and enjoy your life. I know reality is difficult from tax exile , but you could at least try to get some objective opinions.
I knew the protest wasn't going to go down so well on this site. The left have always been done things like protesting and they should continue to do so. The role of the left is not to morph into a idenkit replica of the right and their way of doing things.
If the protest turns into something that revolves around getting organised at a local level to ensure voter registrations, prevent GOIP voter suppression, increase anti-Trump turnout at state and federal elections and so on then it will have been a profoundly important event. If it doesn't, then it will not be - although at a minimum it did allow the world to see that President Trump will be as paranoid, snowflakey and mendacious as candidate Trump was.
Yep. They now have to work on getting people out to vote in 2018 if they really want to send a message to Trump. I'm surprised Trump hasn't tweeted about the protestors. His team really must be telling him 'no.'
I think a big part of it is that Trump just doesn't care about the protests. He'll see it as a Leftwing Democratic Women thing. They'll never vote for him, and nothing he could ever do would make them vote for him, so "feck 'em!"
I wondered where all these protesting women were when we last had a POTUS accused of various acts against women and certainly guilty of abuse towards an intern? Anyone remember Bill Clinton? One of his accusers, Juanita Broaddrick summed it up last week " I am a survivor of sexual assault. I am one of the people you are supposedly marching for. I was r***** by Bill Clinton. Did you hear me? I am one of many that Bill Clinton assaulted. Where were you ladies when I was hurting and scared? This past year, I once again told about my horrific encounter with Bill Clinton. Where were you? You were silent because of your support for Hillary Clinton. Shame on you; all of you. I can finally move forward because your candidate, Hillary Clinton, and Bill Clinton, my abuser, no longer matter." http://www.mrcblog.com/2017/01/bill-clinton-rape-victims-unload-on-female-anti-trump-protesters-shame-on-all-of-you/
I think this protest wasn't about Trump's sexual assault initially: it was about the argument of a women's choice (in regard to abortion). It then turned into a general anti-Trump protest. But after reading up on Clinton and his accusers, I agree that the Left also need to call him out too.
I think the trouble is Trump is incredibly sensitive to criticism. This is a man who got wound up on twitter over losing the popular vote when he won the election anyway. Trump still goes on about Hillary even though she is essentially no longer relevant. So I think Trump wouldn't be too happy to see women not just in America, but across the world march against him. This is a guy who was so wound up about people saying that only 250k attended his inauguration that his press secretary had pictures of the inauguration in the WH press room to show how 'popular' the Donald is.
Good points. Trump shows he is overly sensitive to such attacks. That said why is Trump dumped on and Bill Clinton gets a "free ride"?
'However, we do know that Trump has repeatedly described NATO as not fit for purpose, has often expressed a desire for the EU to break-up and is a protectionist. These three things run directly contrary to British interests in a way that we have not seen from a US administration for decades. Putting a bust of Churchill in the Oval Office does not change any of those things.'
And that is why the relationship with the UK is so important. Theresa May has a huge job to do to influence Trump in the right way and I cannot think of any world leader who is better placed. The fact she is a woman is an antidote to his anti women views, that she supports NATO and the 2% commitment will be a plus and that she has stated that she wants the EU to succeed.
He will not agree to an EU army and the importance of NATO will be shared with the EU and in particular the Baltic Countries which cannot defy him if they want his support. He will be a problem for Merkel not least because he dislikes anything that Obama liked and also that he does not support the EU but is looking for individual trade deals rather than with blocks.
The benefit to the UK is that circumstances have changed so dramtically in the last few days that the thought that the EU would even attempt to punish us for leaving is off the table and the end game will be a special UK deal that works for all - and drinks all round
The UK was never going to be punished. The fools were the people who listened to Commission functionaries with platforms but no power. The Brexit deal will be done by the Germans and the French, with smaller member states using the veto as a threat to get concessions. However, we need to accept that if you leave a club you no longer get the benefits of membership. When the Europeans insist on that, it is not punishing us it is stating a self-evident truth.
May does have a huge job with Trump. America First is a very difficult slogan for him to inch away from. He will have to if the UK is to get anything positive from him.
Theresa's response to the America First question posed by Marr was 'well I am UK first' as all leaders extol their own Country
@tnewtondunn: Summary of Diane Abbott on #bbcsp: no official Labour position yet on Article 50, whip on the vote, the single market or customs union. Oh.
I knew the protest wasn't going to go down so well on this site. The left have always been done things like protesting and they should continue to do so. The role of the left is not to morph into a idenkit replica of the right and their way of doing things.
If the protest turns into something that revolves around getting organised at a local level to ensure voter registrations, prevent GOIP voter suppression, increase anti-Trump turnout at state and federal elections and so on then it will have been a profoundly important event. If it doesn't, then it will not be - although at a minimum it did allow the world to see that President Trump will be as paranoid, snowflakey and mendacious as candidate Trump was.
Yep. They now have to work on getting people out to vote in 2018 if they really want to send a message to Trump. I'm surprised Trump hasn't tweeted about the protestors. His team really must be telling him 'no.'
I think a big part of it is that Trump just doesn't care about the protests. He'll see it as a Leftwing Democratic Women thing. They'll never vote for him, and nothing he could ever do would make them vote for him, so "feck 'em!"
I think the trouble is Trump is incredibly sensitive to criticism. This is a man who got wound up on twitter over losing the popular vote when he won the election anyway. Trump still goes on about Hillary even though she is essentially no longer relevant. So I think Trump wouldn't be too happy to see women not just in America, but across the world march against him. This is a guy who was so wound up about people saying that only 250k attended his inauguration that his press secretary had pictures of the inauguration in the WH press room to show how 'popular' the Donald is.
Good points. Trump shows he is overly sensitive to such attacks. That said why is Trump dumped on and Bill Clinton gets a "free ride"?
Bill Clinton was impeached. That's hardly a free ride.
I knew the protest wasn't going to go down so well on this site. The left have always been done things like protesting and they should continue to do so. The role of the left is not to morph into a idenkit replica of the right and their way of doing things.
Had Clinton won, we'd have seen a huge bloodletting on the GOP side as those who backed Trump would have found themselves swamped by a GOP establishment onslaught while Trump would have tweeted the injustice of it all and been ignored.
I do not think that the same women protesters would have been out attacking Bill Clinton as the partner of POTUS, despite his appalling behaviour towards women. Lefties have different standards based on political bias.
I have to say that the comments by the lefties on here over the last few days, and particularly this morning, have enlightened me as to why they never elect women leaders; it's not just their ideas on government that are stuck in the 70s.
You pompous arse!!
so why dont you elect women ?
I'm not Labour anymore but without being sexist I'd always choose a woman over a man if an electable one was available. Yvette would have been a much better choice than Ed.
I think this US election has changed everything. I spent some hours reading about the six times bankrupt Donald Trump last night and he really is a piece of work . A genuine misogynist and racist. Check out his work on the 'birther' story.
Roger
even the neandertals of the DUP have a woman leader
fact is you lefties just wont elect a woman
I don't think it's a left-right thing though
Just a coincidence then that the only two major parties in the UK never to have had a female leader are Labour & the Lib Dems?
Imagine what you'd be writing if it was Labour who first had a female leader 40 years ago and the Tories still hadn't?
I think there's a view on the Left that women who support the Right are Uncle Toms, and that explains the sort of abuse that Esther McVey and Charlotte Leslie received.
No. Women on the right are treated the same as men on the right - correctly, as greedy, narrow-minded graspers whose inability to look outside their own grubby self-serving motivations is dragging civilisation and the natural world headlong towards complete destruction.
Mr. P, that tweet accidentally missed out the promised referendum on the Lisbon Treaty, concerns over migration, the enormous contributions we make financially, Blair throwing away half the rebate for nothing, the deliberately complex and opaque governance of the EU, unelected and unaccountable judges etc ad nauseum.
There were plenty of legitimate arguments to Leave or Remain. Pretending the EU gave us everything we wanted is ridiculous.
Ms. Apocalypse, if the one or two were the decision-makers, that's enough.
Miss Plato, unsure if it's a technical block/ignore, but this is something you may want to see, if you couldn't before: "PayPal supports 2 factor auth using Verisign. Well worth it."
If constant posts about how awful lefties are is not a form of virtue signalling I do not know what is.
Being a leftie while using a stupid handle that namechecks a staunchly Tory constituency? If there was a right-wing poster called 'KnowsleySpectator' or something, it would be dismissed, rightly, as utterly ludicrous.
I knew the protest wasn't going to go down so well on this site. The left have always been done things like protesting and they should continue to do so. The role of the left is not to morph into a idenkit replica of the right and their way of doing things.
If the protest turns into something that revolves around getting organised at a local level to ensure voter registrations, prevent GOIP voter suppression, increase anti-Trump turnout at state and federal elections and so on then it will have been a profoundly important event. If it doesn't, then it will not be - although at a minimum it did allow the world to see that President Trump will be as paranoid, snowflakey and mendacious as candidate Trump was.
Yep. They now have to work on getting people out to vote in 2018 if they really want to send a message to Trump. I'm surprised Trump hasn't tweeted about the protestors. His team really must be telling him 'no.'
I think a big part of it is that Trump just doesn't care about the protests. He'll see it as a Leftwing Democratic Women thing. They'll never vote for him, and nothing he could ever do would make them vote for him, so "feck 'em!"
I think the trouble is Trump is incredibly sensitive to criticism. This is a man who got wound up on twitter over losing the popular vote when he won the election anyway. Trump still goes on about Hillary even though she is essentially no longer relevant. So I think Trump wouldn't be too happy to see women not just in America, but across the world march against him. This is a guy who was so wound up about people saying that only 250k attended his inauguration that his press secretary had pictures of the inauguration in the WH press room to show how 'popular' the Donald is.
Good points. Trump shows he is overly sensitive to such attacks. That said why is Trump dumped on and Bill Clinton gets a "free ride"?
Bill Clinton was impeached. That's hardly a free ride.
But both the Clintons, as deeply flawed as they both are, are still well regarded by the very same people who march against Trump. That is weapons grade hypocrisy.
I have to say that the comments by the lefties on here over the last few days, and particularly this morning, have enlightened me as to why they never elect women leaders; it's not just their ideas on government that are stuck in the 70s.
You pompous arse!!
so why dont you elect women ?
I'm not Labour anymore but without being sexist I'd always choose a woman over a man if an electable one was available. Yvette would have been a much better choice than Ed.
I think this US election has changed everything. I spent some hours reading about the six times bankrupt Donald Trump last night and he really is a piece of work . A genuine misogynist and racist. Check out his work on the 'birther' story.
Roger
even the neandertals of the DUP have a woman leader
fact is you lefties just wont elect a woman
I don't think it's a left-right thing though
Just a coincidence then that the only two major parties in the UK never to have had a female leader are Labour & the Lib Dems?
Imagine what you'd be writing if it was Labour who first had a female leader 40 years ago and the Tories still hadn't?
I think there's a view on the Left that women who support the Right are Uncle Toms, and that explains the sort of abuse that Esther McVey and Charlotte Leslie received.
No. Women on the right are treated the same as men on the right - correctly, as greedy, narrow-minded graspers whose inability to look outside their own grubby self-serving motivations is dragging civilisation and the natural world headlong towards complete destruction.
And the British ones are often cruel with it. Nothing they hate more than oiks, scrotes, members of the public, proles on public transport, etc.
But, but, but that is the 100% characterisation of the pb remainer left who freely admit they hate the English working class north of London and who bugger off to the Med after they have made their pile.
I knew the protest wasn't going to go down so well on this site. The left have always been done things like protesting and they should continue to do so. The role of the left is not to morph into a idenkit replica of the right and their way of doing things.
If the protest turns into something that revolves around getting organised at a local level to ensure voter registrations, prevent GOIP voter suppression, increase anti-Trump turnout at state and federal elections and so on then it will have been a profoundly important event. If it doesn't, then it will not be - although at a minimum it did allow the world to see that President Trump will be as paranoid, snowflakey and mendacious as candidate Trump was.
Yep. They now have to work on getting people out to vote in 2018 if they really want to send a message to Trump. I'm surprised Trump hasn't tweeted about the protestors. His team really must be telling him 'no.'
I think a big part of it is that Trump just doesn't care about the protests. He'll see it as a Leftwing Democratic Women thing. They'll never vote for him, and nothing he could ever do would make them vote for him, so "feck 'em!"
I think the trouble is Trump is incredibly sensitive to criticism. This is a man who got wound up on twitter over losing the popular vote when he won the election anyway. Trump still goes on about Hillary even though she is essentially no longer relevant. So I think Trump wouldn't be too happy to see women not just in America, but across the world march against him. This is a guy who was so wound up about people saying that only 250k attended his inauguration that his press secretary had pictures of the inauguration in the WH press room to show how 'popular' the Donald is.
Good points. Trump shows he is overly sensitive to such attacks. That said why is Trump dumped on and Bill Clinton gets a "free ride"?
Bill Clinton was impeached. That's hardly a free ride.
Bill Clinton got a free ride from Democrat women. There were no mass protests. His wife clearly tolerated his behaviour yet the Democratic party thought that she was a fit and proper person to be POTUS....
I knew the protest wasn't going to go down so well on this site. The left have always been done things like protesting and they should continue to do so. The role of the left is not to morph into a idenkit replica of the right and their way of doing things.
If the protest turns into something that revolves around getting organised at a local level to ensure voter registrations, prevent GOIP voter suppression, increase anti-Trump turnout at state and federal elections and so on then it will have been a profoundly important event. If it doesn't, then it will not be - although at a minimum it did allow the world to see that President Trump will be as paranoid, snowflakey and mendacious as candidate Trump was.
Yep. They now have to work on getting people out to vote in 2018 if they really want to send a message to Trump. I'm surprised Trump hasn't tweeted about the protestors. His team really must be telling him 'no.'
That involves days of hard work and slogging it out in the rain, and doesnt give anything like the warm feeling of marching through town on a nice days and burning a few limousines getting your face on the telly.
You can march as far as you want, burn limos, chuck rocks through shop windows, wave your well thought out placards and scream on twitter until your lungs explode, but Trump is still President. He is barmier than I thought he would be, and the first day or so hasn't exactly filled me with hope, but the US system made him top dog, and we have to deal with him. May is right to go and see him. Every world leader will need to meet him.
Just to put that point a bit more strongly, if there's ever been a leader it's worth meeting personally, it's Trump.
Normally a president will already have well thought-out views, and will also have advice from experts. It's probably quite unusual to be able to substantially sway their opinion by talking to them personally.
As far as we can tell, Trump is breathtakingly ignorant, has no settled political philosophy, goes with his gut and doesn't listen to advice. It's a long-shot but May's best bet is to get over there as fast as she possibly can, get him in a room, say a bunch of flattering things and try to get him to sign an agreement there and then before anybody else can stop him.
Probably worth giving it a go.
Heads of terms;
1. The windfarm near Donald's golf course gets moved. 2. US tariffs lowered by 95% 3. UK tariffs lowered by 5% 4. At least one nice story about Donald on the BBC every day. 5. We'll send the queen out for one last visit to America. Otherwise you're getting Charles.
That last one could be quite a big carrot to hang in front of donald.
Nothing legitimizes a president more than a visit from the queen.
He's going to want that. bigly.
I think he's going to have to settle for a visit to the queen......talks of 'round of golf at Balmoral' - which is a bit tricky as its a private, not state residence and she goes there for her hols......
Edit - and they're going to want to get him in & out of Scotland without meeting Mrs McTurnip.....
For sure they won't want Saint Theresa massively overshadowed and shown up.
@Morris_Dancer I refuse to believe that story that the entire Labour government was pro-immigration to 'rub the Right's faces in diversity'. It may have been one or two people, but the entire government?
This is constructed entirely around one article by one relatively minor functionary that was subsequently withdrawn and has always been denied. People will believe what they want to believe, though; and, to be fair, Labour has provided a lot of ammunition. Rotherham is a stain that will take years to erase because the political correctness Labour championed was undoubtedly used as a shield by both wicked and lazy people to look the other way.
A second referendum is either “on the table”, “highly likely”, “more likely”, “off the table”, or “all but inevitable”. The First Minister seems to be approaching a second referendum in the way Simone Zaza approaches a World Cup penalty. An understanding of the swing voters from 2014 offers clues to why she is so reluctant to take her shot.
WTF, as if TUBA would have any clue. Get over your hatred and enjoy your life. I know reality is difficult from tax exile , but you could at least try to get some objective opinions.
Big Blair managed to lose 15 points for Bettertogether, let his own campaign be defined as Project Fear and helped SLab to poll in the teens. He should be encouraged to contribute to Scottish politics as much as possible.
I knew the protest wasn't going to go down so well on this site. The left have always been done things like protesting and they should continue to do so. The role of the left is not to morph into a idenkit replica of the right and their way of doing things.
If the protest turns into something that revolves around getting organised at a local level to ensure voter registrations, prevent GOIP voter suppression, increase anti-Trump turnout at state and federal elections and so on then it will have been a profoundly important event. If it doesn't, then it will not be - although at a minimum it did allow the world to see that President Trump will be as paranoid, snowflakey and mendacious as candidate Trump was.
Yep. They now have to work on getting people out to vote in 2018 if they really want to send a message to Trump. I'm surprised Trump hasn't tweeted about the protestors. His team really must be telling him 'no.'
I think a big part of it is that Trump just doesn't care about the protests. He'll see it as a Leftwing Democratic Women thing. They'll never vote for him, and nothing he could ever do would make them vote for him, so "feck 'em!"
I think the trouble is Trump is incredibly sensitive to criticism. This is a man who got wound up on twitter over losing the popular vote when he won the election anyway. Trump still goes on about Hillary even though she is essentially no longer relevant. So I think Trump wouldn't be too happy to see women not just in America, but across the world march against him. This is a guy who was so wound up about people saying that only 250k attended his inauguration that his press secretary had pictures of the inauguration in the WH press room to show how 'popular' the Donald is.
Good points. Trump shows he is overly sensitive to such attacks. That said why is Trump dumped on and Bill Clinton gets a "free ride"?
Bill Clinton was impeached. That's hardly a free ride.
But both the Clintons, as deeply flawed as they both are, are still well regarded by the very same people who march against Trump. That is weapons grade hypocrisy.
I knew the protest wasn't going to go down so well on this site. The left have always been done things like protesting and they should continue to do so. The role of the left is not to morph into a idenkit replica of the right and their way of doing things.
If the protest turns into something that revolves around getting organised at a local level to ensure voter registrations, prevent GOIP voter suppression, increase anti-Trump turnout at state and federal elections and so on then it will have been a profoundly important event. If it doesn't, then it will not be - although at a minimum it did allow the world to see that President Trump will be as paranoid, snowflakey and mendacious as candidate Trump was.
Yep. They now have to work on getting people out to vote in 2018 if they really want to send a message to Trump. I'm surprised Trump hasn't tweeted about the protestors. His team really must be telling him 'no.'
I think a big part of it is that Trump just doesn't care about the protests. He'll see it as a Leftwing Democratic Women thing. They'll never vote for him, and nothing he could ever do would make them vote for him, so "feck 'em!"
I think the trouble is Trump is incredibly sensitive to criticism. This is a man who got wound up on twitter over losing the popular vote when he won the election anyway. Trump still goes on about Hillary even though she is essentially no longer relevant. So I think Trump wouldn't be too happy to see women not just in America, but across the world march against him. This is a guy who was so wound up about people saying that only 250k attended his inauguration that his press secretary had pictures of the inauguration in the WH press room to show how 'popular' the Donald is.
Good points. Trump shows he is overly sensitive to such attacks. That said why is Trump dumped on and Bill Clinton gets a "free ride"?
Bill Clinton was impeached. That's hardly a free ride.
Bill Clinton got a free ride from Democrat women. There were no mass protests. His wife clearly tolerated his behaviour yet the Democratic party thought that she was a fit and proper person to be POTUS....
If constant posts about how awful lefties are is not a form of virtue signalling I do not know what is.
Being a leftie while using a stupid handle that namechecks a staunchly Tory constituency? If there was a right-wing poster called 'KnowsleySpectator' or something, it would be dismissed, rightly, as utterly ludicrous.
Have we had a 3 quid to join PB offer on? The calibre of newbies is disturbing.
If constant posts about how awful lefties are is not a form of virtue signalling I do not know what is.
Being a leftie while using a stupid handle that namechecks a staunchly Tory constituency? If there was a right-wing poster called 'KnowsleySpectator' or something, it would be dismissed, rightly, as utterly ludicrous.
It's where I lived for 10 years. I moved but kept the handle as that is my identifier on here. Sorry. Once again, all it shows is just how utterly contemptible us lefties are, I suppose.
How annoying. My PayPal account has been compromised and I've had two hundred plus emails signing me up to subscriptions.
Credit to PayPal they caught fraudulent purchase of a phone within an hour or so. And promptly refunded my card. Haven't been a victim of this in over a decade so a timely reminder re security.
Sorry to hear this Plato. It has prompted me to update my account to use the two step Security Key feature. They will SMS a unique code to your mobile at each transaction for extra verification.
I knew the protest wasn't going to go down so well on this site. The left have always been done things like protesting and they should continue to do so. The role of the left is not to morph into a idenkit replica of the right and their way of doing things.
If the protest turns into something that revolves around getting organised at a local level to ensure voter registrations, prevent GOIP voter suppression, increase anti-Trump turnout at state and federal elections and so on then it will have been a profoundly important event. If it doesn't, then it will not be - although at a minimum it did allow the world to see that President Trump will be as paranoid, snowflakey and mendacious as candidate Trump was.
Yep. They now have to work on getting people out to vote in 2018 if they really want to send a message to Trump. I'm surprised Trump hasn't tweeted about the protestors. His team really must be telling him 'no.'
I think a big part of it is that Trump just doesn't care about the protests. He'll see it as a Leftwing Democratic Women thing. They'll never vote for him, and nothing he could ever do would make them vote for him, so "feck 'em!"
: /blockquote> Good points. Trump shows he is overly sensitive to such attacks. That said why is Trump dumped on and Bill Clinton gets a "free ride"?
Bill Clinton was impeached. That's hardly a free ride.
Bill Clinton got a free ride from Democrat women. There were no mass protests. His wife clearly tolerated his behaviour yet the Democratic party thought that she was a fit and proper person to be POTUS....
It's one of the reasons why she lost, of course.
She didn't just tolerate it - she managed the "Bimbo Eruption Squad" who dealt with Bill Clintons little problems by rubbishing the women involved, via press back channels.
There is a reason that many on the left find Hillary truly distasteful.
I knew the protest wasn't going to go down so well on this site. The left have always been done things like protesting and they should continue to do so. The role of the left is not to morph into a idenkit replica of the right and their way of doing things.
If the protest turns into something that revolves around getting organised at a local level to ensure voter registrations, prevent GOIP voter suppression, increase anti-Trump turnout at state and federal elections and so on then it will have been a profoundly important event. If it doesn't, then it will not be - although at a minimum it did allow the world to see that President Trump will be as paranoid, snowflakey and mendacious as candidate Trump was.
Yep. They now have to work on getting people out to vote in 2018 if they really want to send a message to Trump. I'm surprised Trump hasn't tweeted about the protestors. His team really must be telling him 'no.'
Trump/Farage/Le Pen have their moment in the sun right now, we lefties suspect we know where were headed but in reality we have no option but to sit it out and observe the consequences.
Why would it affect the UK disproportionately and would a reciprocal tax not help even things out?
The Border Tax Adjustment (BTA) is the single biggest Trump policy position that no-one is talking about. And they're not talking about it for a number of reasons...
In essence the BTA says anything imported into the US incurs a corporate tax liability equivalent to if said import was made in the US.
Now, at its simplest, this says to Ford "if you move production (and therefore taxes) down to Mexico, then expect to pay us the tax we're losing by the car being made there rather than here."
The problem is in the details. To stay within the (rough) framework of the WTO Treaties the US has signed, this is being couched as a revenue mechanism rather than a trade one. And it similarly needs - as part of both tax and WTO obligations - to be non-discriminatory.
We in the UK will suffer disproportionately because our exports are high margin - i.e. there's more tax that the US is missing out on than if you shipped them (say) iron ore where your margins are wafer thin.
The other people who would disproportionately suffer would be Middle Eastern countries who ship oil at $60 to the US, when it only costs them $5 to get it out the ground. I can't imagine many Saudi tankers will be heading towards the US. (This is, therefore, a huge bonus relatively to Canadian oil sands, where the cost of extraction is enormous and the profit per barrel low.)
There are a lot of 'devil is in the details' about this because the border tax has to work in one of three ways:
1. The company importing has to show what its exact profit on said item is. (Making it extremely bureaucratic.) 2. The US govt has to charge it on the pre-tax profit rate of said corporate. (Making it a massive subsidy to Amazon.) 3. Or the US govt has to have authority to estimate tax burdens on a case-by-case basis. (Making it extremely susceptible to corruption from border agents.)
How about you limit it to cases where a factory is closed down and moved abroad. Basically a stick version of government tax incentives to keep a factory in place.
I knew the protest wasn't going to go down so well on this site. The left have always been done things like protesting and they should continue to do so. The role of the left is not to morph into a idenkit replica of the right and their way of doing things.
If the protest turns into something that revolves around getting organised at a local level to ensure voter registrations, prevent GOIP voter suppression, increase anti-Trump turnout at state and federal elections and so on then it will have been a profoundly important event. If it doesn't, then it will not be - although at a minimum it did allow the world to see that President Trump will be as paranoid, snowflakey and mendacious as candidate Trump was.
Yep. They now have to work on getting people out to vote in 2018 if they really want to send a message to Trump. I'm surprised Trump hasn't tweeted about the protestors. His team really must be telling him 'no.'
I think a big part of it is that Trump just doesn't care about the protests. He'll see it as a Leftwing Democratic Women thing. They'll never vote for him, and nothing he could ever do would make them vote for him, so "feck 'em!"
I think the trouble is Trump is incredibly sensitive to criticism. This is a man who got wound up on twitter over losing the popular vote when he won the election anyway. Trump still goes on about Hillary even though she is essentially no longer relevant. So I think Trump wouldn't be too happy to see women not just in America, but across the world march against him. This is a guy who was so wound up about people saying that only 250k attended his inauguration that his press secretary had pictures of the inauguration in the WH press room to show how 'popular' the Donald is.
Good points. Trump shows he is overly sensitive to such attacks. That said why is Trump dumped on and Bill Clinton gets a "free ride"?
Bill Clinton was impeached. That's hardly a free ride.
But both the Clintons, as deeply flawed as they both are, are still well regarded by the very same people who march against Trump. That is weapons grade hypocrisy.
Bill was clearly a sexual predator and is hypocritical for any Democrat not to recognise that. Hillary probably would have been much better off walking away.
I wondered where all these protesting women were when we last had a POTUS accused of various acts against women and certainly guilty of abuse towards an intern? Anyone remember Bill Clinton? One of his accusers, Juanita Broaddrick summed it up last week " I am a survivor of sexual assault. I am one of the people you are supposedly marching for. I was r***** by Bill Clinton. Did you hear me? I am one of many that Bill Clinton assaulted. Where were you ladies when I was hurting and scared? This past year, I once again told about my horrific encounter with Bill Clinton. Where were you? You were silent because of your support for Hillary Clinton. Shame on you; all of you. I can finally move forward because your candidate, Hillary Clinton, and Bill Clinton, my abuser, no longer matter." http://www.mrcblog.com/2017/01/bill-clinton-rape-victims-unload-on-female-anti-trump-protesters-shame-on-all-of-you/
Many Democrats managed to ignore Ted Kennedy's behaviour at Chappaquiddick. If they can push that to one side it's no wonder that Clinton got a pass from his supporters. And to be fair Republicans are just as bad when the try to make out that Nixon was a good President if you focus on the foreign policy successes and ignore all the malfeasance.
US politics as a whole is far too tolerant of the wicked providing they are winners.
I knew the protest wasn't going to go down so well on this site. The left have always been done things like protesting and they should continue to do so. The role of the left is not to morph into a idenkit replica of the right and their way of doing things.
If the protest turns into something that revolves around getting organised at a local level to ensure voter registrations, prevent GOIP voter suppression, increase anti-Trump turnout at state and federal elections and so on then it will have been a profoundly important event. If it doesn't, then it will not be - although at a minimum it did allow the world to see that President Trump will be as paranoid, snowflakey and mendacious as candidate Trump was.
Yep. They now have to work on getting people out to vote in 2018 if they really want to send a message to Trump. I'm surprised Trump hasn't tweeted about the protestors. His team really must be telling him 'no.'
I think a big part of it is that Trump just doesn't care about the protests. He'll see it as a Leftwing Democratic Women thing. They'll never vote for him, and nothing he could ever do would make them vote for him, so "feck 'em!"
I think the trouble is Trump is incredibly sensitive to criticism. This is a man who got wound up on twitter over losing the popular vote when he won the election anyway. Trump still goes on about Hillary even though she is essentially no longer relevant. So I think Trump wouldn't be too happy to see women not just in America, but across the world march against him. This is a guy who was so wound up about people saying that only 250k attended his inauguration that his press secretary had pictures of the inauguration in the WH press room to show how 'popular' the Donald is.
Good points. Trump shows he is overly sensitive to such attacks. That said why is Trump dumped on and Bill Clinton gets a "free ride"?
Bill Clinton was impeached. That's hardly a free ride.
I think the linked article accurate in explaining Mrs May's non-negotiating negotiation strategy.: The other side is completely uninterested. The problem is that we do actually NEED to negotiate various things. Particularly our WTO schedules that Trump is certainly not going to be helpful with.
@Morris_Dancer I refuse to believe that story that the entire Labour government was pro-immigration to 'rub the Right's faces in diversity'. It may have been one or two people, but the entire government?
This is constructed entirely around one article by one relatively minor functionary that was subsequently withdrawn and has always been denied. People will believe what they want to believe, though; and, to be fair, Labour has provided a lot of ammunition. Rotherham is a stain that will take years to erase because the political correctness Labour championed was undoubtedly used as a shield by both wicked and lazy people to look the other way.
Ed Balls and Baby P didn't do Labour any favours either, nor that photogenic fellow Mr Hamza who gave a Labour government the run around for years as they tried not to upset an important sector of their vote before Mrs May threw him out.
I have to say that the comments by the lefties on here over the last few days, and particularly this morning, have enlightened me as to why they never elect women leaders; it's not just their ideas on government that are stuck in the 70s.
Not just the last few days.
Roger spent a long time trying to justify sexual harrassment by some favoured lefty (I forget who) on the ground that when he worked with young women they understood that wandering hands were part of the deal.
I think we all agree that us lefties are venal, wicked people who hate the UK and whose hypocrisy and contempt for the working class knows no bounds. That's a given, isn't it? And, of course, lefties are the only ones who throw insults around and denigrate their political opponents. If only we could be as *good* as people who hold right wing beliefs. But we're not: we are bad.
I don't think the pb "right" claim to be good. They just think they are correct in their analysis of the political situation. It is the very very peculiar insistence of the "left" that they are the more virtuous that is irksome. It is very difficult to suppress an occasional sneer when some talk of abandoning Labour now that the party is threatening the interests of those who have the odd quarter of a million sloshing around in their bank account, unused.
If constant posts about how awful lefties are is not a form of virtue signalling I do not know what is.
I think you'll find that today's discussion has been about what lefties wrote 'bitch in heat' 'giving a blo job while reading an autocue' rather than who they are
@Morris_Dancer I refuse to believe that story that the entire Labour government was pro-immigration to 'rub the Right's faces in diversity'. It may have been one or two people, but the entire government?
This is constructed entirely around one article by one relatively minor functionary that was subsequently withdrawn and has always been denied. People will believe what they want to believe, though; and, to be fair, Labour has provided a lot of ammunition. Rotherham is a stain that will take years to erase because the political correctness Labour championed was undoubtedly used as a shield by both wicked and lazy people to look the other way.
The other problem was that quite a number of the activist types took to the theme - much as moron Democrat activists in the US claiming "that we won't need the white vote anymore".
I always wonder why people who make such stupid statements dislike the BNP - they seem to working so very hard to increase their vote.
Personal anecdote alert : Way back, when Blair was still in, I was holding a dinner party in Hampstead. The other white person there made remarks to the effect that white people like me (aka moderate Conservative) would be buried by the immigrants, and there would Labour governments for ever. Meaning everyone else at the table, I suppose. I giggled, and started a debate on hanging. By the end the progressive wasn't very happy....
I knew the protest wasn't going to go down so well on this site. The left have always been done things like protesting and they should continue to do so. The role of the left is not to morph into a idenkit replica of the right and their way of doing things.
If the protest turns into something that revolves around getting organised at a local level to ensure voter registrations, prevent GOIP voter suppression, increase anti-Trump turnout at state and federal elections and so on then it will have been a profoundly important event. If it doesn't, then it will not be - although at a minimum it did allow the world to see that President Trump will be as paranoid, snowflakey and mendacious as candidate Trump was.
Yep. They now have to work on getting people out to vote in 2018 if they really want to send a message to Trump. I'm surprised Trump hasn't tweeted about the protestors. His team really must be telling him 'no.'
Trump/Farage/Le Pen have their moment in the sun right now, we lefties suspect we know where were headed but in reality we have no option but to sit it out and observe the consequences.
Yep. I'm now seeing women who voted Trump concerned about the GOP's plans in regard to planned parenthood. I'm like, haven't you noticed GOP's stance on planned parenthood? Its been obvious for sometime now what they've wanted to do.
I knew the protest wasn't going to go down so well on this site. The left have always been done things like protesting and they should continue to do so. The role of the left is not to morph into a idenkit replica of the right and their way of doing things.
If the protest turns into something that revolves around getting organised at a local level to ensure voter registrations, prevent GOIP voter suppression, increase anti-Trump turnout at state and federal elections and so on then it will have been a profoundly important event. If it doesn't, then it will not be - although at a minimum it did allow the world to see that President Trump will be as paranoid, snowflakey and mendacious as candidate Trump was.
Yep. They now have to work on getting people out to vote in 2018 if they really want to send a message to Trump. I'm surprised Trump hasn't tweeted about the protestors. His team really must be telling him 'no.'
I think a big part of it is that Trump just doesn't care about the protests. He'll see it as a Leftwing Democratic Women thing. They'll never vote for him, and nothing he could ever do would make them vote for him, so "feck 'em!"
I wondered where all these protesting women were when we last had a POTUS accused of various acts against women and certainly guilty of abuse towards an intern? Anyone remember Bill Clinton? One of his accusers, Juanita Broaddrick summed it up last week " I am a survivor of sexual assault. I am one of the people you are supposedly marching for. I was r***** by Bill Clinton. Did you hear me? I am one of many that Bill Clinton assaulted. Where were you ladies when I was hurting and scared? This past year, I once again told about my horrific encounter with Bill Clinton. Where were you? You were silent because of your support for Hillary Clinton. Shame on you; all of you. I can finally move forward because your candidate, Hillary Clinton, and Bill Clinton, my abuser, no longer matter." http://www.mrcblog.com/2017/01/bill-clinton-rape-victims-unload-on-female-anti-trump-protesters-shame-on-all-of-you/
I think this protest wasn't about Trump's sexual assault initially: it was about the argument of a women's choice (in regard to abortion). It then turned into a general anti-Trump protest. But after reading up on Clinton and his accusers, I agree that the Left also need to call him out too.
Fair point to you. What surprises me is how far Trump's views are away from the fundamentalist christian right of the Republican party.
Who is the "we" in that statement. We, the British public, don't want to buy Chevy's for £10k. That's why we don't do it now. They're crap.
The one thing Trump's cabinet is stuffed with is businessmen, I'd expect trade deals to be good for the USA.
And bad for us. Poorer food standards. ISDS court for multinationals. One thing it won't deliver - Taking Back Control.
The US/EU tariffs are already relatively low. It is the regulations and standards that are the problem. US will insist for the UK that they are US standards. It might cause us problems exporting UK goods with US standard to the EU.
You mean we’d have to dumb down to the Septic standards?
Yes. I've wondered whether US obesity is caused in part by the growth hormone in their beef. Probably not, but who knows.
The US population are guinea pigs for the rest of us on food standards e.g. GM. The US approach is business led. You can use anything unless it is proven to be unsafe. The EU approach (and UK) is consumer led. You can use anything that is proven to be safe. There is a big gap in the middle. If we go for a US FTA we inevitably have to take the US approach.
The FDA (clue is in the name) might disagree with your assertion that good is unregulated in the US
I have to say that the comments by the lefties on here over the last few days, and particularly this morning, have enlightened me as to why they never elect women leaders; it's not just their ideas on government that are stuck in the 70s.
Not just the last few days.
Roger spent a long time trying to justify sexual harrassment by some favoured lefty (I forget who) on the ground that when he worked with young women they understood that wandering hands were part of the deal.
I think we all agree that us lefties are venal, wicked people who hate the UK and whose hypocrisy and contempt for the working class knows no bounds. That's a given, isn't it? And, of course, lefties are the only ones who throw insults around and denigrate their political opponents. If only we could be as *good* as people who hold right wing beliefs. But we're not: we are bad.
I don't think the pb "right" claim to be good. They just think they are correct in their analysis of the political situation. It is the very very peculiar insistence of the "left" that they are the more virtuous that is irksome. It is very difficult to suppress an occasional sneer when some talk of abandoning Labour now that the party is threatening the interests of those who have the odd quarter of a million sloshing around in their bank account, unused.
If constant posts about how awful lefties are is not a form of virtue signalling I do not know what is.
I think you'll find that today's discussion has been about what lefties wrote 'bitch in heat' 'giving a blo job while reading an autocue' rather than who they are
‘A’ lefty wrote bitch on heat. All the Hitler loving righties assumed he spoke for all of us.
And don’t try and pretend that ALL righties aren’t Hitler lovers. Think about it. One said something like that, so obviously speaks for all.
Why would it affect the UK disproportionately and would a reciprocal tax not help even things out?
The Border Tax Adjustment (BTA) is the single biggest Trump policy position that no-one is talking about. And they're not talking about it for a number of reasons...
In essence the BTA says anything imported into the US incurs a corporate tax liability equivalent to if said import was made in the US.
Now, at its simplest, this says to Ford "if you move production (and therefore taxes) down to Mexico, then expect to pay us the tax we're losing by the car being made there rather than here."
The problem is in the details. To stay within the (rough) framework of the WTO Treaties the US has signed, this is being couched as a revenue mechanism rather than a trade one. And it similarly needs - as part of both tax and WTO obligations - to be non-discriminatory.
We in the UK will suffer disproportionately because our exports are high margin - i.e. there's more tax that the US is missing out on than if you shipped them (say) iron ore where your margins are wafer thin.
The other people who would disproportionately suffer would be Middle Eastern countries who ship oil at $60 to the US, when it only costs them $5 to get it out the ground. I can't imagine many Saudi tankers will be heading towards the US. (This is, therefore, a huge bonus relatively to Canadian oil sands, where the cost of extraction is enormous and the profit per barrel low.)
There are a lot of 'devil is in the details' about this because the border tax has to work in one of three ways:
1. The company importing has to show what its exact profit on said item is. (Making it extremely bureaucratic.) 2. The US govt has to charge it on the pre-tax profit rate of said corporate. (Making it a massive subsidy to Amazon.) 3. Or the US govt has to have authority to estimate tax burdens on a case-by-case basis. (Making it extremely susceptible to corruption from border agents.)
4 have a set rate for each industry?
Do you assume the margin is the same on DRAM and on microprocessors?
It depends on who benefits most....
I always like the story that the guys at MITI saw that there were many memory chips in a computer, but one processor (back then). So they steered Japanese chip manufacture away from processors, and into memory.
I wondered where all these protesting women were when we last had a POTUS accused of various acts against women and certainly guilty of abuse towards an intern? Anyone remember Bill Clinton? One of his accusers, Juanita Broaddrick summed it up last week " I am a survivor of sexual assault. I am one of the people you are supposedly marching for. I was r***** by Bill Clinton. Did you hear me? I am one of many that Bill Clinton assaulted. Where were you ladies when I was hurting and scared? This past year, I once again told about my horrific encounter with Bill Clinton. Where were you? You were silent because of your support for Hillary Clinton. Shame on you; all of you. I can finally move forward because your candidate, Hillary Clinton, and Bill Clinton, my abuser, no longer matter." http://www.mrcblog.com/2017/01/bill-clinton-rape-victims-unload-on-female-anti-trump-protesters-shame-on-all-of-you/
Many Democrats managed to ignore Ted Kennedy's behaviour at Chappaquiddick. If they can push that to one side it's no wonder that Clinton got a pass from his supporters. And to be fair Republicans are just as bad when the try to make out that Nixon was a good President if you focus on the foreign policy successes and ignore all the malfeasance.
US politics as a whole is far too tolerant of the wicked providing they are winners.
You can march as far as you want, burn limos, chuck rocks through shop windows, wave your well thought out placards and scream on twitter until your lungs explode, but Trump is still President. He is barmier than I thought he would be, and the first day or so hasn't exactly filled me with hope, but the US system made him top dog, and we have to deal with him. May is right to go and see him. Every world leader will need to meet him.
Just to put that point a bit more strongly, if there's ever been a leader it's worth meeting personally, it's Trump.
Normally a president will already have well thought-out views, and will also have advice from experts. It's probably quite unusual to be able to substantially sway their opinion by talking to them personally.
As far as we can tell, Trump is breathtakingly ignorant, has no settled political philosophy, goes with his gut and doesn't listen to advice. It's a long-shot but May's best bet is to get over there as fast as she possibly can, get him in a room, say a bunch of flattering things and try to get him to sign an agreement there and then before anybody else can stop him.
Probably worth giving it a go.
Heads of terms;
1. The windfarm near Donald's golf course gets moved. 2. US tariffs lowered by 95% 3. UK tariffs lowered by 5% 4. At least one nice story about Donald on the BBC every day. 5. We'll send the queen out for one last visit to America. Otherwise you're getting Charles.
That last one could be quite a big carrot to hang in front of donald.
Nothing legitimizes a president more than a visit from the queen.
He's going to want that. bigly.
I think he's going to have to settle for a visit to the queen......talks of 'round of golf at Balmoral' - which is a bit tricky as its a private, not state residence and she goes there for her hols......
Edit - and they're going to want to get him in & out of Scotland without meeting Mrs McTurnip.....
For sure they won't want Saint Theresa massively overshadowed and shown up.
It's more Trump going off script and praising independence I'd worry about....
I have to say that the comments by the lefties on here over the last few days, and particularly this morning, have enlightened me as to why they never elect women leaders; it's not just their ideas on government that are stuck in the 70s.
You pompous arse!!
so why dont you elect women ?
I'm not Labour anymore but without being sexist I'd always choose a woman over a man if an electable one was available. Yvette would have been a much better choice than Ed.
I think this US election has changed everything. I spent some hours reading about the six times bankrupt Donald Trump last night and he really is a piece of work . A genuine misogynist and racist. Check out his work on the 'birther' story.
Roger
even the neandertals of the DUP have a woman leader
fact is you lefties just wont elect a woman
I don't think it's a left-right thing though
Just a coincidence then that the only two major parties in the UK never to have had a female leader are Labour & the Lib Dems?
Imagine what you'd be writing if it was Labour who first had a female leader 40 years ago and the Tories still hadn't?
I think there's a view on the Left that women who support the Right are Uncle Toms, and that explains the sort of abuse that Esther McVey and Charlotte Leslie received.
No. Women on the right are treated the same as men on the right - correctly, as greedy, narrow-minded graspers whose inability to look outside their own grubby self-serving motivations is dragging civilisation and the natural world headlong towards complete destruction.
Still doesn't explain why Labour haven't had a female leader in the four decades since the Tories had one.....
The explanation is a simple one: there has not been a candidate who commanded enough support among members. Which woman *should* Labour have chosen over Kinnock, Smith, Blair and Brown? I will give you Cooper over Corbyn, but almost everyone agrees that the campaign she ran in 2015 was very poor, so it's probably that which scuppered her rather than her gender.
Margaret Beckett did perfectly well as Acting Leader following the death of John Smith. Pity that Barbara Castle did not run when Wilson stepped down in 1976.
I have to say that the comments by the lefties on here over the last few days, and particularly this morning, have enlightened me as to why they never elect women leaders; it's not just their ideas on government that are stuck in the 70s.
Not just the last few days.
Roger spent a long time trying to justify sexual harrassment by some favoured lefty (I forget who) on the ground that when he worked with young women they understood that wandering hands were part of the deal.
I think we all agree that us lefties are venal, wicked people who hate the UK and whose hypocrisy and contempt for the working class knows no bounds. That's a given, isn't it? And, of course, lefties are the only ones who throw insults around and denigrate their political opponents. If only we could be as *good* as people who hold right wing beliefs. But we're not: we are bad.
No. As far as I'm aware you've never said anything worse that standard political knockabout. Although i do think you romanticise the welfare state excesively because it worked for you.
I have to say that the comments by the lefties on here over the last few days, and particularly this morning, have enlightened me as to why they never elect women leaders; it's not just their ideas on government that are stuck in the 70s.
Not just the last few days.
Roger spent a long time trying to justify sexual harrassment by some favoured lefty (I forget who) on the ground that when he worked with young women they understood that wandering hands were part of the deal.
It's actually worse than that.
Roger was a robust defender of Jimmy Saville - 'witnesses not credible' 'parents fault' 'they knew what they were doing'......
I thought it was that, but wasn't 100% sure so didn't post it!
@NewsTaker It's even more unbelievable that the same Christian Right voted in their droves for Trump!
I am sure they held their noses, but given the alternative was Hillary I doubt they hesitated for a second, from the perspective of their ideology Hillary was much worse.
Diane Abbot being eaten alive on BBC One just now. Without any difficult questions.
All the Tories, UKIP or indeed the Lib Dems have to do to win any argument about Brexit (v. Labour) is simply show that interview to the electorate.
Andrew Neil at his best. Diane Abbot almost lost her cool. You could hear the panic and anger rising in her voice.
In answer to his question "if your objective is to remain a member of the single market, you must accept freedom of movement. Is that not correct?", the answer she should have given is "No it is not correct. It hasn't been tested. The negotiation hasn't begun. But the PM has thrown her hand in and will not even test that. She threw her hand in to preserve the unity of her party, not to further the interests of the UK".
When it comes I know we can count on your vote (if you have one).
Jack W: Lastly and this will shock many but Scotland should now opt for independence. There I said it. The will of the Scottish people on the EU, a matter of the most crucial significance for the future, was clear. Hopefully it will be an amicable uncoupling. I would vote for YES in SINDY2, if still around.
SINDY2 should take place within 18 months and a YES vote take effect on the date of BREXIT two years after Article 50 is enabled or before 2020 whichever is sooner.
A second referendum is either “on the table”, “highly likely”, “more likely”, “off the table”, or “all but inevitable”. The First Minister seems to be approaching a second referendum in the way Simone Zaza approaches a World Cup penalty. An understanding of the swing voters from 2014 offers clues to why she is so reluctant to take her shot.
WTF, as if TUBA would have any clue. Get over your hatred and enjoy your life. I know reality is difficult from tax exile , but you could at least try to get some objective opinions.
I knew the protest wasn't going to go down so well on this site. The left have always been done things like protesting and they should continue to do so. The role of the left is not to morph into a idenkit replica of the right and their way of doing things.
If the protest turns into something that revolves around getting organised at a local level to ensure voter registrations, prevent GOIP voter suppression, increase anti-Trump turnout at state and federal elections and so on then it will have been a profoundly important event. If it doesn't, then it will not be - although at a minimum it did allow the world to see that President Trump will be as paranoid, snowflakey and mendacious as candidate Trump was.
Yep. They now have to work on getting people out to vote in 2018 if they really want to send a message to Trump. I'm surprised Trump hasn't tweeted about the protestors. His team really must be telling him 'no.'
I think a big part of it is that Trump just doesn't care about the protests. He'll see it as a Leftwing Democratic Women thing. They'll never vote for him, and nothing he could ever do would make them vote for him, so "feck 'em!"
I think the trouble is Trump is incredibly sensitive to criticism. This is a man who got wound up on twitter over losing the popular vote when he won the election anyway. Trump still goes on about Hillary even though she is essentially no longer relevant. So I think Trump wouldn't be too happy to see women not just in America, but across the world march against him. This is a guy who was so wound up about people saying that only 250k attended his inauguration that his press secretary had pictures of the inauguration in the WH press room to show how 'popular' the Donald is.
Good points. Trump shows he is overly sensitive to such attacks. That said why is Trump dumped on and Bill Clinton gets a "free ride"?
Bill Clinton was impeached. That's hardly a free ride.
Bill Clinton got a free ride from Democrat women. There were no mass protests. His wife clearly tolerated his behaviour yet the Democratic party thought that she was a fit and proper person to be POTUS....
One person denied the behaviour, the other admitted on tape he sexually assaulted people.
Diane Abbot being eaten alive on BBC One just now. Without any difficult questions.
All the Tories, UKIP or indeed the Lib Dems have to do to win any argument about Brexit (v. Labour) is simply show that interview to the electorate.
Andrew Neil at his best. Diane Abbot almost lost her cool. You could hear the panic and anger rising in her voice.
In answer to his question "if your objective is to remain a member of the single market, you must accept freedom of movement. Is that not correct?", the answer she should have given is "No it is not correct. It hasn't been tested. The negotiation hasn't begun. But the PM has thrown her hand in and will not even test that. She threw her hand in to preserve the unity of her party, not to further the interests of the UK".
In reality the negotiation has begun of course, all sorts of civil servants on all sides will have been sounding out the playing field for months. They won't know the details, because all sides are being rightly closed mouthed about their ultimate position. But everyone is going to have a fair idea of what is going to be up for negotiation, and what is never going to be on the table. The EU have made it abundantly clear in High Definition and from multiple vantage points the the four freedoms are indivisible, and if you are in the single market all must apply to all members.
I have to say that the comments by the lefties on here over the last few days, and particularly this morning, have enlightened me as to why they never elect women leaders; it's not just their ideas on government that are stuck in the 70s.
Not just the last few days.
Roger spent a long time trying to justify sexual harrassment by some favoured lefty (I forget who) on the ground that when he worked with young women they understood that wandering hands were part of the deal.
I think we all agree that us lefties are venal, wicked people who hate the UK and whose hypocrisy and contempt for the working class knows no bounds. That's a given, isn't it? And, of course, lefties are the only ones who throw insults around and denigrate their political opponents. If only we could be as *good* as people who hold right wing beliefs. But we're not: we are bad.
I don't think the pb "right" claim to be good. They just think they are correct in their analysis of the political situation. It is the very very peculiar insistence of the "left" that they are the more virtuous that is irksome. It is very difficult to suppress an occasional sneer when some talk of abandoning Labour now that the party is threatening the interests of those who have the odd quarter of a million sloshing around in their bank account, unused.
If constant posts about how awful lefties are is not a form of virtue signalling I do not know what is.
I think you'll find that today's discussion has been about what lefties wrote 'bitch in heat' 'giving a blo job while reading an autocue' rather than who they are
‘A’ lefty wrote bitch on heat. All the Hitler loving righties assumed he spoke for all of us.
Others defended him, then a second offered the b-j analogy.
But it still comes back to criticism of behaviour vs people
I knew the protest wasn't going to go down so well on this site. The left have always been done things like protesting and they should continue to do so. The role of the left is not to morph into a idenkit replica of the right and their way of doing things.
The women's march was way bigger than I thought it would be. I know they say protests don't make a difference but I just wonder how many groups got attention who otherwise wouldn't havee. And now have donations, people donating and volunteering for those groups.
The left must march and protest it is in their DNA. They don't turnout to vote unless really motivated and marches and rallies like these are the precursor to that.
The significance of the marches in the UK were that they remind our government that plenty of people- and not just from the left- won't take kindly to our PM nuzzling Trump's ear like Blair did to Bush. The reflected odium at her preening herself on her position in the queue has now been noted and shown to have consequences
Politics is dirty. While accusing the left of hypocrisy, the right hypocritically avoids admitting that its real message is as follows:
"Everyone's an arsehole, and the biggest most committed arseholes will always win, so losers gonna lose, so it's our world not yours, so the hell with all you snowflakes who say you believe in right and wrong, you dirty whinging losers with your pathetic morality and feelings".
The least hypocritical among the rightwingers are those who say that openly.
@NewsTaker It's even more unbelievable that the same Christian Right voted in their droves for Trump!
I am sure they held their noses, but given the alternative was Hillary I doubt they hesitated for a second, from the perspective of their ideology Hillary was much worse.
Yep, much better to have a sexual predator who publicly mocks the disabled in the White House.
When it comes I know we can count on your vote (if you have one).
Jack W: Lastly and this will shock many but Scotland should now opt for independence. There I said it. The will of the Scottish people on the EU, a matter of the most crucial significance for the future, was clear. Hopefully it will be an amicable uncoupling. I would vote for YES in SINDY2, if still around.
SINDY2 should take place within 18 months and a YES vote take effect on the date of BREXIT two years after Article 50 is enabled or before 2020 whichever is sooner.
Scott P: I agree
There have been more recent polls showing Scots put control of free movement ahead of single market access than with Scots backing independence
I knew the protest wasn't going to go down so well on this site. The left have always been done things like protesting and they should continue to do so. The role of the left is not to morph into a idenkit replica of the right and their way of doing things.
The women's march was way bigger than I thought it would be. I know they say protests don't make a difference but I just wonder how many groups got attention who otherwise wouldn't havee. And now have donations, people donating and volunteering for those groups.
The left must march and protest it is in their DNA. They don't turnout to vote unless really motivated and marches and rallies like these are the precursor to that.
The significance of the marches in the UK were that they remind our government that plenty of people- and not just from the left- won't take kindly to our PM nuzzling Trump's ear like Blair did to Bush. The reflected odium at her preening herself on her position in the queue has now been noted and shown to have consequences
what guff
the marches are simply middle class english dickheads trying to feel good about themselves
May should just ignore them, interfering in another country's domestic issues never ends well
Mr. Dromedary, why have you persuaded yourself that those who have a different economic/social perspective are evil?
There's nothing inherently superior/inferior about preferring a high tax/high spending or low tax/low spending approach. It's just a judgement call about where to draw the line.
I'm not doing wonderfully financially at the moment *cough*buymybook*cough* but I'm on the right for most things. That would seem to contradict your view on the right as some sort of synonym for Social Darwinism.
Miss Vance, the 'behaviour versus people' line is an excellent one for explaining the frankly bizarre Twitter threads yesterday whereby grown men and women were gleefully endorsing political violence [for those who missed it, check Miss Cyclefree's thread yesterday and search for the term 'Brooker' to find my post].
I knew the protest wasn't going to go down so well on this site. The left have always been done things like protesting and they should continue to do so. The role of the left is not to morph into a idenkit replica of the right and their way of doing things.
The women's march was way bigger than I thought it would be. I know they say protests don't make a difference but I just wonder how many groups got attention who otherwise wouldn't havee. And now have donations, people donating and volunteering for those groups.
The left must march and protest it is in their DNA. They don't turnout to vote unless really motivated and marches and rallies like these are the precursor to that.
The significance of the marches in the UK were that they remind our government that plenty of people- and not just from the left- won't take kindly to our PM nuzzling Trump's ear like Blair did to Bush. The reflected odium at her preening herself on her position in the queue has now been noted and shown to have consequences
It such a relief that you are not in government Roger, you would throw away political and economic advantage in a second if it mean you could feel good about yourself for a few minutes.
Who is the "we" in that statement. We, the British public, don't want to buy Chevy's for £10k. That's why we don't do it now. They're crap.
The one thing Trump's cabinet is stuffed with is businessmen, I'd expect trade deals to be good for the USA.
And bad for us. Poorer food standards. ISDS court for multinationals. One thing it won't deliver - Taking Back Control.
The US/EU tariffs are already relatively low. It is the regulations and standards that are the problem. US will insist for the UK that they are US standards. It might cause us problems exporting UK goods with US standard to the EU.
You mean we’d have to dumb down to the Septic standards?
Yes. I've wondered whether US obesity is caused in part by the growth hormone in their beef. Probably not, but who knows.
The US population are guinea pigs for the rest of us on food standards e.g. GM. The US approach is business led. You can use anything unless it is proven to be unsafe. The EU approach (and UK) is consumer led. You can use anything that is proven to be safe. There is a big gap in the middle. If we go for a US FTA we inevitably have to take the US approach.
The FDA (clue is in the name) might disagree with your assertion that good is unregulated in the US
Food is less regulated than drugs. Here is a quote from the FDA website.
"Under 21 CFR 170.30(c) and 170.3(f), general recognition of safety through experience based on common use in foods requires a substantial history of consumption for food use by a significant number of consumers."
@NewsTaker It's even more unbelievable that the same Christian Right voted in their droves for Trump!
I am sure they held their noses, but given the alternative was Hillary I doubt they hesitated for a second, from the perspective of their ideology Hillary was much worse.
Yep, much better to have a sexual predator who publicly mocks the disabled in the White House.
For the Christian right it was the SCOTUS pick(s) that drove turnout.
I knew the protest wasn't going to go down so well on this site. The left have always been done things like protesting and they should continue to do so. The role of the left is not to morph into a idenkit replica of the right and their way of doing things.
If the protest turns into something that revolves around getting organised at a local level to ensure voter registrations, prevent GOIP voter suppression, increase anti-Trump turnout at state and federal elections and so on then it will have been a profoundly important event. If it doesn't, then it will not be - although at a minimum it did allow the world to see that President Trump will be as paranoid, snowflakey and mendacious as candidate Trump was.
Yep. They now have to work on getting people out to vote in 2018 if they really want to send a message to Trump. I'm surprised Trump hasn't tweeted about the protestors. His team really must be telling him 'no.'
Trump/Farage/Le Pen have their moment in the sun right now, we lefties suspect we know where were headed but in reality we have no option but to sit it out and observe the consequences.
Yep. I'm now seeing women who voted Trump concerned about the GOP's plans in regard to planned parenthood. I'm like, haven't you noticed GOP's stance on planned parenthood? Its been obvious for sometime now what they've wanted to do.
A lot of Trump supporters are also about to find out they are going to lose their medical coverage. His first act as President was to make it more expensive for working people to buy houses, his second was to make access to healthcare more expensive. The swamp is being drained.
@NewsTaker It's even more unbelievable that the same Christian Right voted in their droves for Trump!
I am sure they held their noses, but given the alternative was Hillary I doubt they hesitated for a second, from the perspective of their ideology Hillary was much worse.
Yep, much better to have a sexual predator who publicly mocks the disabled in the White House.
For sensible people, probably not, for the Christian Right, for whom Hillary Clinton has been the anti-christ for years, maybe.
@NewsTaker It's even more unbelievable that the same Christian Right voted in their droves for Trump!
I am sure they held their noses, but given the alternative was Hillary I doubt they hesitated for a second, from the perspective of their ideology Hillary was much worse.
Yep, much better to have a sexual predator who publicly mocks the disabled in the White House.
Politics is dirty. While accusing the left of hypocrisy, the right hypocritically avoids admitting that its real message is as follows:
"Everyone's an arsehole, and the biggest most committed arseholes will always win, so losers gonna lose, so it's our world not yours, so the hell with all you snowflakes who say you believe in right and wrong, you dirty whinging losers with your pathetic morality and feelings".
The least hypocritical among the rightwingers are those who say that openly.
I knew the protest wasn't going to go down so well on this site. The left have always been done things like protesting and they should continue to do so. The role of the left is not to morph into a idenkit replica of the right and their way of doing things.
The women's march was way bigger than I thought it would be. I know they say protests don't make a difference but I just wonder how many groups got attention who otherwise wouldn't havee. And now have donations, people donating and volunteering for those groups.
The left must march and protest it is in their DNA. They don't turnout to vote unless really motivated and marches and rallies like these are the precursor to that.
The significance of the marches in the UK were that they remind our government that plenty of people- and not just from the left- won't take kindly to our PM nuzzling Trump's ear like Blair did to Bush. The reflected odium at her preening herself on her position in the queue has now been noted and shown to have consequences
We need a diplomatic relationship with the USA, especially seeing as the country voted to weaken the one with the EU countries.
If the protest turns into something that revolves around getting organised at a local level to ensure voter registrations, prevent GOIP voter suppression, increase anti-Trump turnout at state and federal elections and so on then it will have been a profoundly important event. If it doesn't, then it will not be - although at a minimum it did allow the world to see that President Trump will be as paranoid, snowflakey and mendacious as candidate Trump was.
Yep. They now have to work on getting people out to vote in 2018 if they really want to send a message to Trump. I'm surprised Trump hasn't tweeted about the protestors. His team really must be telling him 'no.'
I think a big part of it is that Trump just doesn't care about the protests. He'll see it as a Leftwing Democratic Women thing. They'll never vote for him, and nothing he could ever do would make them vote for him, so "feck 'em!"
I wondered where all these protesting women were when we last had a POTUS accused of various acts against women and certainly guilty of abuse towards an intern? Anyone remember Bill Clinton? One of his accusers, Juanita Broaddrick summed it up last week " I am a survivor of sexual assault. I am one of the people you are supposedly marching for. I was r***** by Bill Clinton. Did you hear me? I am one of many that Bill Clinton assaulted. Where were you ladies when I was hurting and scared? This past year, I once again told about my horrific encounter with Bill Clinton. Where were you? You were silent because of your support for Hillary Clinton. Shame on you; all of you. I can finally move forward because your candidate, Hillary Clinton, and Bill Clinton, my abuser, no longer matter." http://www.mrcblog.com/2017/01/bill-clinton-rape-victims-unload-on-female-anti-trump-protesters-shame-on-all-of-you/
I think this protest wasn't about Trump's sexual assault initially: it was about the argument of a women's choice (in regard to abortion). It then turned into a general anti-Trump protest. But after reading up on Clinton and his accusers, I agree that the Left also need to call him out too.
Fair point to you. What surprises me is how far Trump's views are away from the fundamentalist christian right of the Republican party.
As a couple of examples from the Wimmins Protest - dressing up as giant vaginas, carrying placards demanding all men should die and writing campaigning messages on sanitary pads is probably a good indicator of the distance between the two groups.
@NewsTaker It's even more unbelievable that the same Christian Right voted in their droves for Trump!
I am sure they held their noses, but given the alternative was Hillary I doubt they hesitated for a second, from the perspective of their ideology Hillary was much worse.
Yep, much better to have a sexual predator who publicly mocks the disabled in the White House.
For the Christian right it was the SCOTUS pick(s) that drove turnout.
Yep - they wanted a sexual predator who mocks the disabled to make the picks.
You can march as far as you want, burn limos, chuck rocks through shop windows, wave your well thought out placards and scream on twitter until your lungs explode, but Trump is still President. He is barmier than I thought he would be, and the first day or so hasn't exactly filled me with hope, but the US system made him top dog, and we have to deal with him. May is right to go and see him. Every world leader will need to meet him. Oh, and you Labour fellas really don't do your party any favours with the way you talk about women who don't share your political beliefs. Stay classy, lads.
I'd a peek at Twitter in the small hours - and I ended crying with laughter at some of the ridiculous antics, wailing, unfortunate photos of protestors.
The interweb never forgets - and I'd die of embarrassment if I appeared in any of them.
It's a more fruitful use of time to figure out why you lost, and what you need to do to win next time.
Why do that when you can have fun marching with people who already agree with you, and enjoy demonising those who don't?
I knew the protest wasn't going to go down so well on this site. The left have always been done things like protesting and they should continue to do so. The role of the left is not to morph into a idenkit replica of the right and their way of doing things.
The women's march was way bigger than I thought it would be. I know they say protests don't make a difference but I just wonder how many groups got attention who otherwise wouldn't havee. And now have donations, people donating and volunteering for those groups.
The left must march and protest it is in their DNA. They don't turnout to vote unless really motivated and marches and rallies like these are the precursor to that.
The significance of the marches in the UK were that they remind our government that plenty of people- and not just from the left- won't take kindly to our PM nuzzling Trump's ear like Blair did to Bush. The reflected odium at her preening herself on her position in the queue has now been noted and shown to have consequences
It such a relief that you are not in government Roger, you would throw away political and economic advantage in a second if it mean you could feel good about yourself for a few minutes.
You're saying two things here: "feel good" and "for a few minutes". And on the other side of the opposition you are positing, you place skill at playing an advantage.
Does playing an advantage outscore feeling good for longer than a few minutes because someone - let's say they are in government - has actually done good?
Or is the very question rubbish, in this dog-eat-dog society?
When it comes I know we can count on your vote (if you have one).
Jack W: Lastly and this will shock many but Scotland should now opt for independence. There I said it. The will of the Scottish people on the EU, a matter of the most crucial significance for the future, was clear. Hopefully it will be an amicable uncoupling. I would vote for YES in SINDY2, if still around.
SINDY2 should take place within 18 months and a YES vote take effect on the date of BREXIT two years after Article 50 is enabled or before 2020 whichever is sooner.
Scott P: I agree
He is a bit forgetful and does like to back both sides so he can say he was with the winner
Politics is dirty. While accusing the left of hypocrisy, the right hypocritically avoids admitting that its real message is as follows:
"Everyone's an arsehole, and the biggest most committed arseholes will always win, so losers gonna lose, so it's our world not yours, so the hell with all you snowflakes who say you believe in right and wrong, you dirty whinging losers with your pathetic morality and feelings".
The least hypocritical among the rightwingers are those who say that openly.
What a lot of tosh. Its the left that scream about hatred of the right, the right just think the left are wrong. I am on the right to some extent, I am big, and committed and broke, clearly I am going wrong somewhere, perhaps I am letting my morals get in the way spending most of my time teaching poor kids for nothing, oh no, I forgot we righties dont have those.
If the protest turns into something that revolves around getting organised at a local level to ensure voter registrations, prevent GOIP voter suppression, increase anti-Trump turnout at state and federal elections and so on then it will have been a profoundly important event. If it doesn't, then it will not be - although at a minimum it did allow the world to see that President Trump will be as paranoid, snowflakey and mendacious as candidate Trump was.
'
I think a big part of it is that Trump just doesn't care about the protests. He'll see it as a Leftwing Democratic Women thing. They'll never vote for him, and nothing he could ever do would make them vote for him, so "feck 'em!"
I wondered where all these protesting women were when we last had a POTUS accused of various acts against women and certainly guilty of abuse towards an intern? Anyone remember Bill Clinton? One of his accusers, Juanita Broaddrick summed it up last week " I am a survivor of sexual assault. I am one of the people you are supposedly marching for. I was r***** by Bill Clinton. Did you hear me? I am one of many that Bill Clinton assaulted. Where were you ladies when I was hurting and scared? This past year, I once again told about my horrific encounter with Bill Clinton. Where were you? You were silent because of your support for Hillary Clinton. Shame on you; all of you. I can finally move forward because your candidate, Hillary Clinton, and Bill Clinton, my abuser, no longer matter." http://www.mrcblog.com/2017/01/bill-clinton-rape-victims-unload-on-female-anti-trump-protesters-shame-on-all-of-you/
I think this protest wasn't about Trump's sexual assault initially: it was about the argument of a women's choice (in regard to abortion). It then turned into a general anti-Trump protest. But after reading up on Clinton and his accusers, I agree that the Left also need to call him out too.
Fair point to you. What surprises me is how far Trump's views are away from the fundamentalist christian right of the Republican party.
As a couple of examples from the Wimmins Protest - dressing up as giant vaginas, carrying placards demanding all men should die and writing campaigning messages on sanitary pads is probably a good indicator of the distance between the two groups.
Demonstrating like that seems to me on the far side of cuckoo!
I knew the protest wasn't going to go down so well on this site. The left have always been done things like protesting and they should continue to do so. The role of the left is not to morph into a idenkit replica of the right and their way of doing things.
If the protest turns into something that revolves around getting organised at a local level to ensure voter registrations, prevent GOIP voter suppression, increase anti-Trump turnout at state and federal elections and so on then it will have been a profoundly important event. If it doesn't, then it will not be - although at a minimum it did allow the world to see that President Trump will be as paranoid, snowflakey and mendacious as candidate Trump was.
Yep. They now have to work on getting people out to vote in 2018 if they really want to send a message to Trump. I'm surprised Trump hasn't tweeted about the protestors. His team really must be telling him 'no.'
Trump/Farage/Le Pen have their moment in the sun right now, we lefties suspect we know where were headed but in reality we have no option but to sit it out and observe the consequences.
Yep. I'm now seeing women who voted Trump concerned about the GOP's plans in regard to planned parenthood. I'm like, haven't you noticed GOP's stance on planned parenthood? Its been obvious for sometime now what they've wanted to do.
A lot of Trump supporters are also about to find out they are going to lose their medical coverage. His first act as President was to make it more expensive for working people to buy houses, his second was to make access to healthcare more expensive. The swamp is being drained.
I knew the protest wasn't going to go down so well on this site. The left have always been done things like protesting and they should continue to do so. The role of the left is not to morph into a idenkit replica of the right and their way of doing things.
The women's march was way bigger than I thought it would be. I know they say protests don't make a difference but I just wonder how many groups got attention who otherwise wouldn't havee. And now have donations, people donating and volunteering for those groups.
The left must march and protest it is in their DNA. They don't turnout to vote unless really motivated and marches and rallies like these are the precursor to that.
The significance of the marches in the UK were that they remind our government that plenty of people- and not just from the left- won't take kindly to our PM nuzzling Trump's ear like Blair did to Bush. The reflected odium at her preening herself on her position in the queue has now been noted and shown to have consequences
what guff
the marches are simply middle class english dickheads trying to feel good about themselves
May should just ignore them, interfering in another country's domestic issues never ends well
Diane Abbot being eaten alive on BBC One just now. Without any difficult questions.
All the Tories, UKIP or indeed the Lib Dems have to do to win any argument about Brexit (v. Labour) is simply show that interview to the electorate.
Andrew Neil at his best. Diane Abbot almost lost her cool. You could hear the panic and anger rising in her voice.
In answer to his question "if your objective is to remain a member of the single market, you must accept freedom of movement. Is that not correct?", the answer she should have given is "No it is not correct. It hasn't been tested. The negotiation hasn't begun. But the PM has thrown her hand in and will not even test that. She threw her hand in to preserve the unity of her party, not to further the interests of the UK".
In reality the negotiation has begun of course, all sorts of civil servants on all sides will have been sounding out the playing field for months. They won't know the details, because all sides are being rightly closed mouthed about their ultimate position. But everyone is going to have a fair idea of what is going to be up for negotiation, and what is never going to be on the table. The EU have made it abundantly clear in High Definition and from multiple vantage points the the four freedoms are indivisible, and if you are in the single market all must apply to all members.
The four freedoms (goods, services, capital, labour) are to support the single market in furthering trade. Labour is jobs not citizenship. The extension to citizenship had a political motive (ever closer union) not a trade motive. So it is divisible. There are also fudges available e.g. taking up the seven year adjustment period rejected by Blair in 2004. There was plenty to negotiate (including a big sum of money to help balance the EU budget) but she didn't even try.
@NewsTaker It's even more unbelievable that the same Christian Right voted in their droves for Trump!
I am sure they held their noses, but given the alternative was Hillary I doubt they hesitated for a second, from the perspective of their ideology Hillary was much worse.
Yep, much better to have a sexual predator who publicly mocks the disabled in the White House.
For the Christian right it was the SCOTUS pick(s) that drove turnout.
Yep - they wanted a sexual predator who mocks the disabled to make the picks.
In reality they didn't want Clinton and chose what they perceived to be the lesser evil.
I knew the protest wasn't going to go down so well on this site. The left have always been done things like protesting and they should continue to do so. The role of the left is not to morph into a idenkit replica of the right and their way of doing things.
The women's march was way bigger than I thought it would be. I know they say protests don't make a difference but I just wonder how many groups got attention who otherwise wouldn't havee. And now have donations, people donating and volunteering for those groups.
The left must march and protest it is in their DNA. They don't turnout to vote unless really motivated and marches and rallies like these are the precursor to that.
The significance of the marches in the UK were that they remind our government that plenty of people- and not just from the left- won't take kindly to our PM nuzzling Trump's ear like Blair did to Bush. The reflected odium at her preening herself on her position in the queue has now been noted and shown to have consequences
what guff
the marches are simply middle class english dickheads trying to feel good about themselves
May should just ignore them, interfering in another country's domestic issues never ends well
Politics is dirty. While accusing the left of hypocrisy, the right hypocritically avoids admitting that its real message is as follows:
"Everyone's an arsehole, and the biggest most committed arseholes will always win, so losers gonna lose, so it's our world not yours, so the hell with all you snowflakes who say you believe in right and wrong, you dirty whinging losers with your pathetic morality and feelings".
The least hypocritical among the rightwingers are those who say that openly.
What a lot of tosh. Its the left that scream about hatred of the right, the right just think the left are wrong. I am on the right to some extent, I am big, and committed and broke, clearly I am going wrong somewhere, perhaps I am letting my morals get in the way spending most of my time teaching poor kids for nothing, oh no, I forgot we righties dont have those.
A quick perusal of this website on any given day demonstrates that it is simply false to claim that "the right just think the left are wrong". Indeed, your very own post above demonstrates that you think that the left is morally deficient.
Diane Abbot being eaten alive on BBC One just now. Without any difficult questions.
All the Tories, UKIP or indeed the Lib Dems have to do to win any argument about Brexit (v. Labour) is simply show that interview to the electorate.
Andrew Neil at his best. Diane Abbot almost lost her cool. You could hear the panic and anger rising in her voice.
In answer to his question "if your objective is to remain a member of the single market, you must accept freedom of movement. Is that not correct?", the answer she should have given is "No it is not correct. It hasn't been tested. The negotiation hasn't begun. But the PM has thrown her hand in and will not even test that. She threw her hand in to preserve the unity of her party, not to further the interests of the UK".
In reality the negotiation has begun of course, all sorts of civil servants on all sides will have been sounding out the playing field for months. They won't know the details, because all sides are being rightly closed mouthed about their ultimate position. But everyone is going to have a fair idea of what is going to be up for negotiation, and what is never going to be on the table. The EU have made it abundantly clear in High Definition and from multiple vantage points the the four freedoms are indivisible, and if you are in the single market all must apply to all members.
The four freedoms (goods, services, capital, labour) are to support the single market in furthering trade. Labour is jobs not citizenship. The extension to citizenship had a political motive (ever closer union) not a trade motive. So it is divisible. There are also fudges available e.g. taking up the seven year adjustment period rejected by Blair in 2004. There was plenty to negotiate (including a big sum of money to help balance the EU budget) but she didn't even try.
The seven year adjustment period was a one-off transition that has expired already, not a permanent feature.
Comments
http://www.mrcblog.com/2017/01/bill-clinton-rape-victims-unload-on-female-anti-trump-protesters-shame-on-all-of-you/
EDIT: I know Plato ignores my posts so maybe someone else could flag it for her.
All the Tories, UKIP or indeed the Lib Dems have to do to win any argument about Brexit (v. Labour) is simply show that interview to the electorate.
There were plenty of legitimate arguments to Leave or Remain. Pretending the EU gave us everything we wanted is ridiculous.
Ms. Apocalypse, if the one or two were the decision-makers, that's enough.
Miss Plato, unsure if it's a technical block/ignore, but this is something you may want to see, if you couldn't before:
"PayPal supports 2 factor auth using Verisign. Well worth it."
[Posted by Mr. P].
Being a leftie while using a stupid handle that namechecks a staunchly Tory constituency? If there was a right-wing poster called 'KnowsleySpectator' or something, it would be dismissed, rightly, as utterly ludicrous.
US politics as a whole is far too tolerant of the wicked providing they are winners.
Ed Balls and Baby P didn't do Labour any favours either, nor that photogenic fellow Mr Hamza who gave a Labour government the run around for years as they tried not to upset an important sector of their vote before Mrs May threw him out.
I always wonder why people who make such stupid statements dislike the BNP - they seem to working so very hard to increase their vote.
Personal anecdote alert : Way back, when Blair was still in, I was holding a dinner party in Hampstead. The other white person there made remarks to the effect that white people like me (aka moderate Conservative) would be buried by the immigrants, and there would Labour governments for ever. Meaning everyone else at the table, I suppose. I giggled, and started a debate on hanging. By the end the progressive wasn't very happy....
And don’t try and pretend that ALL righties aren’t Hitler lovers. Think about it. One said something like that, so obviously speaks for all.
https://twitter.com/WikiGuido/status/823110229240008706
It's close.
it's closer.
It's more likely.
That's a NO then...
Roger is a unpleasant sexist.
In answer to his question "if your objective is to remain a member of the single market, you must accept freedom of movement. Is that not correct?", the answer she should have given is "No it is not correct. It hasn't been tested. The negotiation hasn't begun. But the PM has thrown her hand in and will not even test that. She threw her hand in to preserve the unity of her party, not to further the interests of the UK".
Jack W: Lastly and this will shock many but Scotland should now opt for independence. There I said it. The will of the Scottish people on the EU, a matter of the most crucial significance for the future, was clear. Hopefully it will be an amicable uncoupling. I would vote for YES in SINDY2, if still around.
SINDY2 should take place within 18 months and a YES vote take effect on the date of BREXIT two years after Article 50 is enabled or before 2020 whichever is sooner.
Scott P: I agree
But it still comes back to criticism of behaviour vs people
"Everyone's an arsehole, and the biggest most committed arseholes will always win, so losers gonna lose, so it's our world not yours, so the hell with all you snowflakes who say you believe in right and wrong, you dirty whinging losers with your pathetic morality and feelings".
The least hypocritical among the rightwingers are those who say that openly.
the marches are simply middle class english dickheads trying to feel good about themselves
May should just ignore them, interfering in another country's domestic issues never ends well
There's nothing inherently superior/inferior about preferring a high tax/high spending or low tax/low spending approach. It's just a judgement call about where to draw the line.
I'm not doing wonderfully financially at the moment *cough*buymybook*cough* but I'm on the right for most things. That would seem to contradict your view on the right as some sort of synonym for Social Darwinism.
Miss Vance, the 'behaviour versus people' line is an excellent one for explaining the frankly bizarre Twitter threads yesterday whereby grown men and women were gleefully endorsing political violence [for those who missed it, check Miss Cyclefree's thread yesterday and search for the term 'Brooker' to find my post].
"Under 21 CFR 170.30(c) and 170.3(f), general recognition of safety through experience based on common use in foods requires a substantial history of consumption for food use by a significant number of consumers."
Does playing an advantage outscore feeling good for longer than a few minutes because someone - let's say they are in government - has actually done good?
Or is the very question rubbish, in this dog-eat-dog society?
Why is this?
CNN actually talked to Trump supporters who are concerned about losing certain aspects of Obamacare: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oqnk4kt2Z-c
And I just shook my head when I read that Trump's first action was to stop the FHA mortgage insurance cut.