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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Douglas Carswell is my 100/1 tip for next Speaker of the House

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  • I don't think the pb "right" claim to be good. They just think they are correct in their analysis of the political situation. It is the very very peculiar insistence of the "left" that they are the more virtuous that is irksome. It is very difficult to suppress an occasional sneer when some talk of abandoning Labour now that the party is threatening the interests of those who have the odd quarter of a million sloshing around in their bank account, unused.

    If constant posts about how awful lefties are is not a form of virtue signalling I do not know what is.

  • philiph said:

    Blair happened because John Smith died and Kinnock followed Smith?
    The foundation for New Labour was in the works as far back as under Kinnock. For example, Mandelson was a key part of Kinnock's team and worked with both Brown and Blair under John Smith.
  • I think a big part of it is that Trump just doesn't care about the protests. He'll see it as a Leftwing Democratic Women thing. They'll never vote for him, and nothing he could ever do would make them vote for him, so "feck 'em!"
    I wondered where all these protesting women were when we last had a POTUS accused of various acts against women and certainly guilty of abuse towards an intern? Anyone remember Bill Clinton? One of his accusers, Juanita Broaddrick summed it up last week " I am a survivor of sexual assault. I am one of the people you are supposedly marching for. I was r***** by Bill Clinton. Did you hear me? I am one of many that Bill Clinton assaulted. Where were you ladies when I was hurting and scared? This past year, I once again told about my horrific encounter with Bill Clinton. Where were you? You were silent because of your support for Hillary Clinton. Shame on you; all of you. I can finally move forward because your candidate, Hillary Clinton, and Bill Clinton, my abuser, no longer matter."
    http://www.mrcblog.com/2017/01/bill-clinton-rape-victims-unload-on-female-anti-trump-protesters-shame-on-all-of-you/
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,988
    Diane Abbott awful on Sunday Politics. Christ.
  • I don't think the pb "right" claim to be good. They just think they are correct in their analysis of the political situation. It is the very very peculiar insistence of the "left" that they are the more virtuous that is irksome. It is very difficult to suppress an occasional sneer when some talk of abandoning Labour now that the party is threatening the interests of those who have the odd quarter of a million sloshing around in their bank account, unused.
    It's the passive-aggressive bollox that typically follows that's really, truly gash-awful.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    edited January 2017
    PlatoSaid said:

    How annoying. My PayPal account has been compromised and I've had two hundred plus emails signing me up to subscriptions.

    Credit to PayPal they caught fraudulent purchase of a phone within an hour or so. And promptly refunded my card. Haven't been a victim of this in over a decade so a timely reminder re security.

    PayPal supports 2 factor auth using Verisign. Well worth it.

    EDIT: I know Plato ignores my posts so maybe someone else could flag it for her.
  • I think the trouble is Trump is incredibly sensitive to criticism. This is a man who got wound up on twitter over losing the popular vote when he won the election anyway. Trump still goes on about Hillary even though she is essentially no longer relevant. So I think Trump wouldn't be too happy to see women not just in America, but across the world march against him. This is a guy who was so wound up about people saying that only 250k attended his inauguration that his press secretary had pictures of the inauguration in the WH press room to show how 'popular' the Donald is.
    Good points. Trump shows he is overly sensitive to such attacks. That said why is Trump dumped on and Bill Clinton gets a "free ride"?
  • @Morris_Dancer I refuse to believe that story that the entire Labour government was pro-immigration to 'rub the Right's faces in diversity'. It may have been one or two people, but the entire government?
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,027

    A magnificent lack of self-awareness there :-D

    I come to this site most days to read and be 'entertained' but lately it has degenerated into nothing but a nasty cheap self opinionated one. Today especially reading Rogers posts I have come to the conclusion there is nothing worse than a bad loser. Once their arguments have been exhausted and found wanting they resort to abuse and ridicule.
    Roger you are behaving like a very spoiled child that when not getting his way lashes out with venom and hate. You should be ashamed. If you cant post or argue sensibly then you should just leave this site and fume alone. That goes for others that have nothing constructive to say.
    Nasty and very distateful all round

    Clearly never read one of SeanT's posts then
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 23,952
    isam said:

    God do lefties ever stop banging on about the differences between left and right?? Division obsessives!

    I'm not sure if you were trying to be funny there (and apologies if I missed the joke) but...you do know that post is self-contradictory, yes?
  • Diane Abbot being eaten alive on BBC One just now. Without any difficult questions.

    All the Tories, UKIP or indeed the Lib Dems have to do to win any argument about Brexit (v. Labour) is simply show that interview to the electorate.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,002

    A second referendum is either “on the table”, “highly likely”, “more likely”, “off the table”, or “all but inevitable”. The First Minister seems to be approaching a second referendum in the way Simone Zaza approaches a World Cup penalty. An understanding of the swing voters from 2014 offers clues to why she is so reluctant to take her shot.

    https://medium.com/@blairmcdougall/why-nicola-sturgeon-is-frozen-in-front-of-goal-4618fc79e078#.9q9t2pvol

    WTF, as if TUBA would have any clue. Get over your hatred and enjoy your life. I know reality is difficult from tax exile , but you could at least try to get some objective opinions.
  • NewsTaker said:

    I wondered where all these protesting women were when we last had a POTUS accused of various acts against women and certainly guilty of abuse towards an intern? Anyone remember Bill Clinton? One of his accusers, Juanita Broaddrick summed it up last week " I am a survivor of sexual assault. I am one of the people you are supposedly marching for. I was r***** by Bill Clinton. Did you hear me? I am one of many that Bill Clinton assaulted. Where were you ladies when I was hurting and scared? This past year, I once again told about my horrific encounter with Bill Clinton. Where were you? You were silent because of your support for Hillary Clinton. Shame on you; all of you. I can finally move forward because your candidate, Hillary Clinton, and Bill Clinton, my abuser, no longer matter."
    http://www.mrcblog.com/2017/01/bill-clinton-rape-victims-unload-on-female-anti-trump-protesters-shame-on-all-of-you/
    I think this protest wasn't about Trump's sexual assault initially: it was about the argument of a women's choice (in regard to abortion). It then turned into a general anti-Trump protest. But after reading up on Clinton and his accusers, I agree that the Left also need to call him out too.
  • DromedaryDromedary Posts: 1,194
    edited January 2017
    NewsTaker said:

    Good points. Trump shows he is overly sensitive to such attacks. That said why is Trump dumped on and Bill Clinton gets a "free ride"?
    There is a Twitter site #ProvokeTrump:

    image

    image
  • The UK was never going to be punished. The fools were the people who listened to Commission functionaries with platforms but no power. The Brexit deal will be done by the Germans and the French, with smaller member states using the veto as a threat to get concessions. However, we need to accept that if you leave a club you no longer get the benefits of membership. When the Europeans insist on that, it is not punishing us it is stating a self-evident truth.

    May does have a huge job with Trump. America First is a very difficult slogan for him to inch away from. He will have to if the UK is to get anything positive from him.

    Theresa's response to the America First question posed by Marr was 'well I am UK first' as all leaders extol their own Country
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @tnewtondunn: Summary of Diane Abbott on #bbcsp: no official Labour position yet on Article 50, whip on the vote, the single market or customs union. Oh.
  • NewsTaker said:

    Good points. Trump shows he is overly sensitive to such attacks. That said why is Trump dumped on and Bill Clinton gets a "free ride"?

    Bill Clinton was impeached. That's hardly a free ride.

  • stodge said:

    Had Clinton won, we'd have seen a huge bloodletting on the GOP side as those who backed Trump would have found themselves swamped by a GOP establishment onslaught while Trump would have tweeted the injustice of it all and been ignored.
    I do not think that the same women protesters would have been out attacking Bill Clinton as the partner of POTUS, despite his appalling behaviour towards women. Lefties have different standards based on political bias.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,183
    JWisemann said:

    No. Women on the right are treated the same as men on the right - correctly, as greedy, narrow-minded graspers whose inability to look outside their own grubby self-serving motivations is dragging civilisation and the natural world headlong towards complete destruction.

    Hahha. Hyperbole much?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,377
    Mr. P, that tweet accidentally missed out the promised referendum on the Lisbon Treaty, concerns over migration, the enormous contributions we make financially, Blair throwing away half the rebate for nothing, the deliberately complex and opaque governance of the EU, unelected and unaccountable judges etc ad nauseum.

    There were plenty of legitimate arguments to Leave or Remain. Pretending the EU gave us everything we wanted is ridiculous.

    Ms. Apocalypse, if the one or two were the decision-makers, that's enough.

    Miss Plato, unsure if it's a technical block/ignore, but this is something you may want to see, if you couldn't before:
    "PayPal supports 2 factor auth using Verisign. Well worth it."

    [Posted by Mr. P].
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,002

    Strong stuff from Mr Herdson.

    Was wine taken?
    I thought his CIA speech was a hoot.


  • If constant posts about how awful lefties are is not a form of virtue signalling I do not know what is.


    Being a leftie while using a stupid handle that namechecks a staunchly Tory constituency? If there was a right-wing poster called 'KnowsleySpectator' or something, it would be dismissed, rightly, as utterly ludicrous.
  • Bill Clinton was impeached. That's hardly a free ride.

    But both the Clintons, as deeply flawed as they both are, are still well regarded by the very same people who march against Trump. That is weapons grade hypocrisy.
  • Dromedary said:

    And the British ones are often cruel with it. Nothing they hate more than oiks, scrotes, members of the public, proles on public transport, etc.
    But, but, but that is the 100% characterisation of the pb remainer left who freely admit they hate the English working class north of London and who bugger off to the Med after they have made their pile.
  • Bill Clinton was impeached. That's hardly a free ride.
    Bill Clinton got a free ride from Democrat women. There were no mass protests. His wife clearly tolerated his behaviour yet the Democratic party thought that she was a fit and proper person to be POTUS....
  • AlsoIndigoAlsoIndigo Posts: 1,852
    edited January 2017

    Yep. They now have to work on getting people out to vote in 2018 if they really want to send a message to Trump. I'm surprised Trump hasn't tweeted about the protestors. His team really must be telling him 'no.'
    That involves days of hard work and slogging it out in the rain, and doesnt give anything like the warm feeling of marching through town on a nice days and burning a few limousines getting your face on the telly.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,002

    I think he's going to have to settle for a visit to the queen......talks of 'round of golf at Balmoral' - which is a bit tricky as its a private, not state residence and she goes there for her hols......

    Edit - and they're going to want to get him in & out of Scotland without meeting Mrs McTurnip.....
    For sure they won't want Saint Theresa massively overshadowed and shown up.
  • @Morris_Dancer I refuse to believe that story that the entire Labour government was pro-immigration to 'rub the Right's faces in diversity'. It may have been one or two people, but the entire government?

    This is constructed entirely around one article by one relatively minor functionary that was subsequently withdrawn and has always been denied. People will believe what they want to believe, though; and, to be fair, Labour has provided a lot of ammunition. Rotherham is a stain that will take years to erase because the political correctness Labour championed was undoubtedly used as a shield by both wicked and lazy people to look the other way.

  • malcolmg said:

    WTF, as if TUBA would have any clue. Get over your hatred and enjoy your life. I know reality is difficult from tax exile , but you could at least try to get some objective opinions.
    Big Blair managed to lose 15 points for Bettertogether, let his own campaign be defined as Project Fear and helped SLab to poll in the teens. He should be encouraged to contribute to Scottish politics as much as possible.
  • But both the Clintons, as deeply flawed as they both are, are still well regarded by the very same people who march against Trump. That is weapons grade hypocrisy.
    Much better than I put it, sir.
  • NewsTaker said:

    Bill Clinton got a free ride from Democrat women. There were no mass protests. His wife clearly tolerated his behaviour yet the Democratic party thought that she was a fit and proper person to be POTUS....

    It's one of the reasons why she lost, of course.


  • Being a leftie while using a stupid handle that namechecks a staunchly Tory constituency? If there was a right-wing poster called 'KnowsleySpectator' or something, it would be dismissed, rightly, as utterly ludicrous.
    Have we had a 3 quid to join PB offer on? The calibre of newbies is disturbing.

  • Being a leftie while using a stupid handle that namechecks a staunchly Tory constituency? If there was a right-wing poster called 'KnowsleySpectator' or something, it would be dismissed, rightly, as utterly ludicrous.

    It's where I lived for 10 years. I moved but kept the handle as that is my identifier on here. Sorry. Once again, all it shows is just how utterly contemptible us lefties are, I suppose.

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,078
    PlatoSaid said:

    How annoying. My PayPal account has been compromised and I've had two hundred plus emails signing me up to subscriptions.

    Credit to PayPal they caught fraudulent purchase of a phone within an hour or so. And promptly refunded my card. Haven't been a victim of this in over a decade so a timely reminder re security.

    Sorry to hear this Plato. It has prompted me to update my account to use the two step Security Key feature. They will SMS a unique code to your mobile at each transaction for extra verification.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,827

    She didn't just tolerate it - she managed the "Bimbo Eruption Squad" who dealt with Bill Clintons little problems by rubbishing the women involved, via press back channels.

    There is a reason that many on the left find Hillary truly distasteful.
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,027

    Yep. They now have to work on getting people out to vote in 2018 if they really want to send a message to Trump. I'm surprised Trump hasn't tweeted about the protestors. His team really must be telling him 'no.'
    Trump/Farage/Le Pen have their moment in the sun right now, we lefties suspect we know where were headed but in reality we have no option but to sit it out and observe the consequences.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    rcs1000 said:

    The Border Tax Adjustment (BTA) is the single biggest Trump policy position that no-one is talking about. And they're not talking about it for a number of reasons...

    In essence the BTA says anything imported into the US incurs a corporate tax liability equivalent to if said import was made in the US.

    Now, at its simplest, this says to Ford "if you move production (and therefore taxes) down to Mexico, then expect to pay us the tax we're losing by the car being made there rather than here."

    The problem is in the details. To stay within the (rough) framework of the WTO Treaties the US has signed, this is being couched as a revenue mechanism rather than a trade one. And it similarly needs - as part of both tax and WTO obligations - to be non-discriminatory.

    We in the UK will suffer disproportionately because our exports are high margin - i.e. there's more tax that the US is missing out on than if you shipped them (say) iron ore where your margins are wafer thin.

    The other people who would disproportionately suffer would be Middle Eastern countries who ship oil at $60 to the US, when it only costs them $5 to get it out the ground. I can't imagine many Saudi tankers will be heading towards the US. (This is, therefore, a huge bonus relatively to Canadian oil sands, where the cost of extraction is enormous and the profit per barrel low.)

    There are a lot of 'devil is in the details' about this because the border tax has to work in one of three ways:

    1. The company importing has to show what its exact profit on said item is. (Making it extremely bureaucratic.)
    2. The US govt has to charge it on the pre-tax profit rate of said corporate. (Making it a massive subsidy to Amazon.)
    3. Or the US govt has to have authority to estimate tax burdens on a case-by-case basis. (Making it extremely susceptible to corruption from border agents.)
    How about you limit it to cases where a factory is closed down and moved abroad. Basically a stick version of government tax incentives to keep a factory in place.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 40,001
    edited January 2017

    But both the Clintons, as deeply flawed as they both are, are still well regarded by the very same people who march against Trump. That is weapons grade hypocrisy.

    Bill was clearly a sexual predator and is hypocritical for any Democrat not to recognise that. Hillary probably would have been much better off walking away.
  • glwglw Posts: 10,304
    NewsTaker said:

    I wondered where all these protesting women were when we last had a POTUS accused of various acts against women and certainly guilty of abuse towards an intern? Anyone remember Bill Clinton? One of his accusers, Juanita Broaddrick summed it up last week " I am a survivor of sexual assault. I am one of the people you are supposedly marching for. I was r***** by Bill Clinton. Did you hear me? I am one of many that Bill Clinton assaulted. Where were you ladies when I was hurting and scared? This past year, I once again told about my horrific encounter with Bill Clinton. Where were you? You were silent because of your support for Hillary Clinton. Shame on you; all of you. I can finally move forward because your candidate, Hillary Clinton, and Bill Clinton, my abuser, no longer matter."
    http://www.mrcblog.com/2017/01/bill-clinton-rape-victims-unload-on-female-anti-trump-protesters-shame-on-all-of-you/

    Many Democrats managed to ignore Ted Kennedy's behaviour at Chappaquiddick. If they can push that to one side it's no wonder that Clinton got a pass from his supporters. And to be fair Republicans are just as bad when the try to make out that Nixon was a good President if you focus on the foreign policy successes and ignore all the malfeasance.

    US politics as a whole is far too tolerant of the wicked providing they are winners.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,119
    edited January 2017
    viewcode said:

    I'm not sure if you were trying to be funny there (and apologies if I missed the joke) but...you do know that post is self-contradictory, yes?
    50/50
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,078

    Bill Clinton was impeached. That's hardly a free ride.

    The Senate acquitted him.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,813
    edited January 2017
    Scott_P said:
    I think the linked article accurate in explaining Mrs May's non-negotiating negotiation strategy.: The other side is completely uninterested. The problem is that we do actually NEED to negotiate various things. Particularly our WTO schedules that Trump is certainly not going to be helpful with.
  • AlsoIndigoAlsoIndigo Posts: 1,852
    edited January 2017

    This is constructed entirely around one article by one relatively minor functionary that was subsequently withdrawn and has always been denied. People will believe what they want to believe, though; and, to be fair, Labour has provided a lot of ammunition. Rotherham is a stain that will take years to erase because the political correctness Labour championed was undoubtedly used as a shield by both wicked and lazy people to look the other way.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/6418456/Labour-wanted-mass-immigration-to-make-UK-more-multicultural-says-former-adviser.html

    Ed Balls and Baby P didn't do Labour any favours either, nor that photogenic fellow Mr Hamza who gave a Labour government the run around for years as they tried not to upset an important sector of their vote before Mrs May threw him out.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,281
    edited January 2017

    If constant posts about how awful lefties are is not a form of virtue signalling I do not know what is.

    I think you'll find that today's discussion has been about what lefties wrote 'bitch in heat' 'giving a blo job while reading an autocue' rather than who they are
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,827

    This is constructed entirely around one article by one relatively minor functionary that was subsequently withdrawn and has always been denied. People will believe what they want to believe, though; and, to be fair, Labour has provided a lot of ammunition. Rotherham is a stain that will take years to erase because the political correctness Labour championed was undoubtedly used as a shield by both wicked and lazy people to look the other way.

    The other problem was that quite a number of the activist types took to the theme - much as moron Democrat activists in the US claiming "that we won't need the white vote anymore".

    I always wonder why people who make such stupid statements dislike the BNP - they seem to working so very hard to increase their vote.

    Personal anecdote alert : Way back, when Blair was still in, I was holding a dinner party in Hampstead. The other white person there made remarks to the effect that white people like me (aka moderate Conservative) would be buried by the immigrants, and there would Labour governments for ever. Meaning everyone else at the table, I suppose. I giggled, and started a debate on hanging. By the end the progressive wasn't very happy....
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    edited January 2017
    OllyT said:

    Trump/Farage/Le Pen have their moment in the sun right now, we lefties suspect we know where were headed but in reality we have no option but to sit it out and observe the consequences.
    Yep. I'm now seeing women who voted Trump concerned about the GOP's plans in regard to planned parenthood. I'm like, haven't you noticed GOP's stance on planned parenthood? Its been obvious for sometime now what they've wanted to do.
  • I think this protest wasn't about Trump's sexual assault initially: it was about the argument of a women's choice (in regard to abortion). It then turned into a general anti-Trump protest. But after reading up on Clinton and his accusers, I agree that the Left also need to call him out too.
    Fair point to you. What surprises me is how far Trump's views are away from the fundamentalist christian right of the Republican party.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Barnesian said:

    Yes. I've wondered whether US obesity is caused in part by the growth hormone in their beef. Probably not, but who knows.

    The US population are guinea pigs for the rest of us on food standards e.g. GM. The US approach is business led. You can use anything unless it is proven to be unsafe. The EU approach (and UK) is consumer led. You can use anything that is proven to be safe. There is a big gap in the middle. If we go for a US FTA we inevitably have to take the US approach.
    The FDA (clue is in the name) might disagree with your assertion that good is unregulated in the US
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,395

    I think you'll find that today's discussion has been about what lefties wrote 'bitch in heat' 'giving a blo job while reading an autocue' rather than who they are
    ‘A’ lefty wrote bitch on heat. All the Hitler loving righties assumed he spoke for all of us.

    And don’t try and pretend that ALL righties aren’t Hitler lovers. Think about it. One said something like that, so obviously speaks for all.
  • Answer the fucking question, part 4053.

    https://twitter.com/WikiGuido/status/823110229240008706
  • @NewsTaker It's even more unbelievable that the same Christian Right voted in their droves for Trump!
  • glw said:

    Many Democrats managed to ignore Ted Kennedy's behaviour at Chappaquiddick. If they can push that to one side it's no wonder that Clinton got a pass from his supporters. And to be fair Republicans are just as bad when the try to make out that Nixon was a good President if you focus on the foreign policy successes and ignore all the malfeasance.

    US politics as a whole is far too tolerant of the wicked providing they are winners.
    There's also JFK as well.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,827
    philiph said:

    It depends on who benefits most....
    I always like the story that the guys at MITI saw that there were many memory chips in a computer, but one processor (back then). So they steered Japanese chip manufacture away from processors, and into memory.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,281
    malcolmg said:

    For sure they won't want Saint Theresa massively overshadowed and shown up.
    It's more Trump going off script and praising independence I'd worry about....
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    Answer the fucking question, part 4053.

    Will Nicola call Indyref2?

    It's close.

    it's closer.

    It's more likely.

    That's a NO then...
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    The explanation is a simple one: there has not been a candidate who commanded enough support among members. Which woman *should* Labour have chosen over Kinnock, Smith, Blair and Brown? I will give you Cooper over Corbyn, but almost everyone agrees that the campaign she ran in 2015 was very poor, so it's probably that which scuppered her rather than her gender.
    Margaret Beckett did perfectly well as Acting Leader following the death of John Smith. Pity that Barbara Castle did not run when Wilson stepped down in 1976.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    I think we all agree that us lefties are venal, wicked people who hate the UK and whose hypocrisy and contempt for the working class knows no bounds. That's a given, isn't it? And, of course, lefties are the only ones who throw insults around and denigrate their political opponents. If only we could be as *good* as people who hold right wing beliefs. But we're not: we are bad.

    No. As far as I'm aware you've never said anything worse that standard political knockabout. Although i do think you romanticise the welfare state excesively because it worked for you.

    Roger is a unpleasant sexist.
  • DromedaryDromedary Posts: 1,194
    So many people who employ sarcasm so much of the time are so CRAP at it.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    It's actually worse than that.

    Roger was a robust defender of Jimmy Saville - 'witnesses not credible' 'parents fault' 'they knew what they were doing'......
    I thought it was that, but wasn't 100% sure so didn't post it!
  • AlsoIndigoAlsoIndigo Posts: 1,852

    @NewsTaker It's even more unbelievable that the same Christian Right voted in their droves for Trump!

    I am sure they held their noses, but given the alternative was Hillary I doubt they hesitated for a second, from the perspective of their ideology Hillary was much worse.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,003
    edited January 2017

    Diane Abbot being eaten alive on BBC One just now. Without any difficult questions.

    All the Tories, UKIP or indeed the Lib Dems have to do to win any argument about Brexit (v. Labour) is simply show that interview to the electorate.

    Andrew Neil at his best. Diane Abbot almost lost her cool. You could hear the panic and anger rising in her voice.

    In answer to his question "if your objective is to remain a member of the single market, you must accept freedom of movement. Is that not correct?", the answer she should have given is "No it is not correct. It hasn't been tested. The negotiation hasn't begun. But the PM has thrown her hand in and will not even test that. She threw her hand in to preserve the unity of her party, not to further the interests of the UK".
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,127
    edited January 2017
    Scott_P said:

    Will Nicola call Indyref2?

    It's close.

    it's closer.

    It's more likely.

    That's a NO then...
    When it comes I know we can count on your vote (if you have one).

    Jack W: Lastly and this will shock many but Scotland should now opt for independence. There I said it. The will of the Scottish people on the EU, a matter of the most crucial significance for the future, was clear. Hopefully it will be an amicable uncoupling. I would vote for YES in SINDY2, if still around.

    SINDY2 should take place within 18 months and a YES vote take effect on the date of BREXIT two years after Article 50 is enabled or before 2020 whichever is sooner.

    Scott P: I agree
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,281
    malcolmg said:

    WTF, as if TUBA would have any clue. Get over your hatred and enjoy your life. I know reality is difficult from tax exile , but you could at least try to get some objective opinions.
    https://twitter.com/JamieRoss7/status/821431871158571010
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited January 2017
    NewsTaker said:

    Bill Clinton got a free ride from Democrat women. There were no mass protests. His wife clearly tolerated his behaviour yet the Democratic party thought that she was a fit and proper person to be POTUS....
    One person denied the behaviour, the other admitted on tape he sexually assaulted people.
  • AlsoIndigoAlsoIndigo Posts: 1,852
    Barnesian said:

    Andrew Neil at his best. Diane Abbot almost lost her cool. You could hear the panic and anger rising in her voice.

    In answer to his question "if your objective is to remain a member of the single market, you must accept freedom of movement. Is that not correct?", the answer she should have given is "No it is not correct. It hasn't been tested. The negotiation hasn't begun. But the PM has thrown her hand in and will not even test that. She threw her hand in to preserve the unity of her party, not to further the interests of the UK".
    In reality the negotiation has begun of course, all sorts of civil servants on all sides will have been sounding out the playing field for months. They won't know the details, because all sides are being rightly closed mouthed about their ultimate position. But everyone is going to have a fair idea of what is going to be up for negotiation, and what is never going to be on the table. The EU have made it abundantly clear in High Definition and from multiple vantage points the the four freedoms are indivisible, and if you are in the single market all must apply to all members.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,078

    Answer the fucking question, part 4053.

    https://twitter.com/WikiGuido/status/823110229240008706

    Wouldn't it be more worrying if a senior member of the Cabinet had not known?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,281

    ‘A’ lefty wrote bitch on heat. All the Hitler loving righties assumed he spoke for all of us.
    Others defended him, then a second offered the b-j analogy.

    But it still comes back to criticism of behaviour vs people
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,267
    nunu said:

    The women's march was way bigger than I thought it would be. I know they say protests don't make a difference but I just wonder how many groups got attention who otherwise wouldn't havee. And now have donations, people donating and volunteering for those groups.

    The left must march and protest it is in their DNA. They don't turnout to vote unless really motivated and marches and rallies like these are the precursor to that.
    The significance of the marches in the UK were that they remind our government that plenty of people- and not just from the left- won't take kindly to our PM nuzzling Trump's ear like Blair did to Bush. The reflected odium at her preening herself on her position in the queue has now been noted and shown to have consequences
  • DromedaryDromedary Posts: 1,194
    edited January 2017
    Politics is dirty. While accusing the left of hypocrisy, the right hypocritically avoids admitting that its real message is as follows:

    "Everyone's an arsehole, and the biggest most committed arseholes will always win, so losers gonna lose, so it's our world not yours, so the hell with all you snowflakes who say you believe in right and wrong, you dirty whinging losers with your pathetic morality and feelings".

    The least hypocritical among the rightwingers are those who say that openly.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,395
    Dromedary said:

    So many people who employ sarcasm so much of the time are so CRAP at it.

    Very difficult to be sarcastic in print.
  • I am sure they held their noses, but given the alternative was Hillary I doubt they hesitated for a second, from the perspective of their ideology Hillary was much worse.

    Yep, much better to have a sexual predator who publicly mocks the disabled in the White House.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,532

    When it comes I know we can count on your vote (if you have one).

    Jack W: Lastly and this will shock many but Scotland should now opt for independence. There I said it. The will of the Scottish people on the EU, a matter of the most crucial significance for the future, was clear. Hopefully it will be an amicable uncoupling. I would vote for YES in SINDY2, if still around.

    SINDY2 should take place within 18 months and a YES vote take effect on the date of BREXIT two years after Article 50 is enabled or before 2020 whichever is sooner.

    Scott P: I agree
    There have been more recent polls showing Scots put control of free movement ahead of single market access than with Scots backing independence
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,766
    edited January 2017
    Roger said:

    The significance of the marches in the UK were that they remind our government that plenty of people- and not just from the left- won't take kindly to our PM nuzzling Trump's ear like Blair did to Bush. The reflected odium at her preening herself on her position in the queue has now been noted and shown to have consequences
    what guff

    the marches are simply middle class english dickheads trying to feel good about themselves

    May should just ignore them, interfering in another country's domestic issues never ends well
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,377
    Mr. Dromedary, why have you persuaded yourself that those who have a different economic/social perspective are evil?

    There's nothing inherently superior/inferior about preferring a high tax/high spending or low tax/low spending approach. It's just a judgement call about where to draw the line.

    I'm not doing wonderfully financially at the moment *cough*buymybook*cough* but I'm on the right for most things. That would seem to contradict your view on the right as some sort of synonym for Social Darwinism.

    Miss Vance, the 'behaviour versus people' line is an excellent one for explaining the frankly bizarre Twitter threads yesterday whereby grown men and women were gleefully endorsing political violence [for those who missed it, check Miss Cyclefree's thread yesterday and search for the term 'Brooker' to find my post].
  • AlsoIndigoAlsoIndigo Posts: 1,852
    Roger said:

    The significance of the marches in the UK were that they remind our government that plenty of people- and not just from the left- won't take kindly to our PM nuzzling Trump's ear like Blair did to Bush. The reflected odium at her preening herself on her position in the queue has now been noted and shown to have consequences
    It such a relief that you are not in government Roger, you would throw away political and economic advantage in a second if it mean you could feel good about yourself for a few minutes.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,003
    Charles said:

    The FDA (clue is in the name) might disagree with your assertion that good is unregulated in the US
    Food is less regulated than drugs. Here is a quote from the FDA website.

    "Under 21 CFR 170.30(c) and 170.3(f), general recognition of safety through experience based on common use in foods requires a substantial history of consumption for food use by a significant number of consumers."
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,377
    Mr. Brooke, are you suggesting May should put such considerations at the back of the queue?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,794

    Yep, much better to have a sexual predator who publicly mocks the disabled in the White House.

    For the Christian right it was the SCOTUS pick(s) that drove turnout.
  • Yep. I'm now seeing women who voted Trump concerned about the GOP's plans in regard to planned parenthood. I'm like, haven't you noticed GOP's stance on planned parenthood? Its been obvious for sometime now what they've wanted to do.

    A lot of Trump supporters are also about to find out they are going to lose their medical coverage. His first act as President was to make it more expensive for working people to buy houses, his second was to make access to healthcare more expensive. The swamp is being drained.

  • AlsoIndigoAlsoIndigo Posts: 1,852

    Yep, much better to have a sexual predator who publicly mocks the disabled in the White House.

    For sensible people, probably not, for the Christian Right, for whom Hillary Clinton has been the anti-christ for years, maybe.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,766

    Yep, much better to have a sexual predator who publicly mocks the disabled in the White House.

    Bill ?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 23,952
    edited January 2017
    Dromedary said:

    Politics is dirty. While accusing the left of hypocrisy, the right hypocritically avoids admitting that its real message is as follows:

    "Everyone's an arsehole, and the biggest most committed arseholes will always win, so losers gonna lose, so it's our world not yours, so the hell with all you snowflakes who say you believe in right and wrong, you dirty whinging losers with your pathetic morality and feelings".

    The least hypocritical among the rightwingers are those who say that openly.

    "The aide said that guys like me were "in what we call the reality-based community," which he defined as people who "believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality." I nodded and murmured something about enlightenment principles and empiricism. He cut me off. "That's not the way the world really works anymore." He continued "We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality—judiciously, as you will—we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors … and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do." - Karl Rove
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,083
    Roger said:

    The significance of the marches in the UK were that they remind our government that plenty of people- and not just from the left- won't take kindly to our PM nuzzling Trump's ear like Blair did to Bush. The reflected odium at her preening herself on her position in the queue has now been noted and shown to have consequences
    We need a diplomatic relationship with the USA, especially seeing as the country voted to weaken the one with the EU countries.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,766

    Mr. Brooke, are you suggesting May should put such considerations at the back of the queue?

    They could chat with Mrs Merkel while she waits
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    NewsTaker said:

    Fair point to you. What surprises me is how far Trump's views are away from the fundamentalist christian right of the Republican party.
    As a couple of examples from the Wimmins Protest - dressing up as giant vaginas, carrying placards demanding all men should die and writing campaigning messages on sanitary pads is probably a good indicator of the distance between the two groups.
  • MaxPB said:

    For the Christian right it was the SCOTUS pick(s) that drove turnout.

    Yep - they wanted a sexual predator who mocks the disabled to make the picks.

  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,090
    Sean_F said:

    It's a more fruitful use of time to figure out why you lost, and what you need to do to win next time.
    Why do that when you can have fun marching with people who already agree with you, and enjoy demonising those who don't?
  • DromedaryDromedary Posts: 1,194
    edited January 2017

    It such a relief that you are not in government Roger, you would throw away political and economic advantage in a second if it mean you could feel good about yourself for a few minutes.
    You're saying two things here: "feel good" and "for a few minutes". And on the other side of the opposition you are positing, you place skill at playing an advantage.

    Does playing an advantage outscore feeling good for longer than a few minutes because someone - let's say they are in government - has actually done good?

    Or is the very question rubbish, in this dog-eat-dog society?

  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,002

    When it comes I know we can count on your vote (if you have one).

    Jack W: Lastly and this will shock many but Scotland should now opt for independence. There I said it. The will of the Scottish people on the EU, a matter of the most crucial significance for the future, was clear. Hopefully it will be an amicable uncoupling. I would vote for YES in SINDY2, if still around.

    SINDY2 should take place within 18 months and a YES vote take effect on the date of BREXIT two years after Article 50 is enabled or before 2020 whichever is sooner.

    Scott P: I agree
    He is a bit forgetful and does like to back both sides so he can say he was with the winner
  • AlsoIndigoAlsoIndigo Posts: 1,852
    Dromedary said:

    Politics is dirty. While accusing the left of hypocrisy, the right hypocritically avoids admitting that its real message is as follows:

    "Everyone's an arsehole, and the biggest most committed arseholes will always win, so losers gonna lose, so it's our world not yours, so the hell with all you snowflakes who say you believe in right and wrong, you dirty whinging losers with your pathetic morality and feelings".

    The least hypocritical among the rightwingers are those who say that openly.

    What a lot of tosh. Its the left that scream about hatred of the right, the right just think the left are wrong. I am on the right to some extent, I am big, and committed and broke, clearly I am going wrong somewhere, perhaps I am letting my morals get in the way spending most of my time teaching poor kids for nothing, oh no, I forgot we righties dont have those.
  • Other than Mr Meek (briefly) , no one wants to talk about Bercow, the subject of the thread.

    Why is this?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,395
    PlatoSaid said:

    As a couple of examples from the Wimmins Protest - dressing up as giant vaginas, carrying placards demanding all men should die and writing campaigning messages on sanitary pads is probably a good indicator of the distance between the two groups.
    Demonstrating like that seems to me on the far side of cuckoo!
  • A lot of Trump supporters are also about to find out they are going to lose their medical coverage. His first act as President was to make it more expensive for working people to buy houses, his second was to make access to healthcare more expensive. The swamp is being drained.

    There are quite few people who believe that the ACA is a totally different thing to Obamacare. This is an example: http://www.dailydot.com/unclick/obamacare-aca-trump-supporter-viral/

    CNN actually talked to Trump supporters who are concerned about losing certain aspects of Obamacare: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oqnk4kt2Z-c

    And I just shook my head when I read that Trump's first action was to stop the FHA mortgage insurance cut.
  • what guff

    the marches are simply middle class english dickheads trying to feel good about themselves

    May should just ignore them, interfering in another country's domestic issues never ends well

    Virtue signaller.

  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,003
    edited January 2017

    In reality the negotiation has begun of course, all sorts of civil servants on all sides will have been sounding out the playing field for months. They won't know the details, because all sides are being rightly closed mouthed about their ultimate position. But everyone is going to have a fair idea of what is going to be up for negotiation, and what is never going to be on the table. The EU have made it abundantly clear in High Definition and from multiple vantage points the the four freedoms are indivisible, and if you are in the single market all must apply to all members.
    The four freedoms (goods, services, capital, labour) are to support the single market in furthering trade. Labour is jobs not citizenship. The extension to citizenship had a political motive (ever closer union) not a trade motive. So it is divisible. There are also fudges available e.g. taking up the seven year adjustment period rejected by Blair in 2004. There was plenty to negotiate (including a big sum of money to help balance the EU budget) but she didn't even try.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,794

    Yep - they wanted a sexual predator who mocks the disabled to make the picks.

    In reality they didn't want Clinton and chose what they perceived to be the lesser evil.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,766

    Virtue signaller.

    I can only ever hope to follow in your wake
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 40,001
    edited January 2017

    What a lot of tosh. Its the left that scream about hatred of the right, the right just think the left are wrong. I am on the right to some extent, I am big, and committed and broke, clearly I am going wrong somewhere, perhaps I am letting my morals get in the way spending most of my time teaching poor kids for nothing, oh no, I forgot we righties dont have those.

    A quick perusal of this website on any given day demonstrates that it is simply false to claim that "the right just think the left are wrong". Indeed, your very own post above demonstrates that you think that the left is morally deficient.

  • Barnesian said:

    The four freedoms (goods, services, capital, labour) are to support the single market in furthering trade. Labour is jobs not citizenship. The extension to citizenship had a political motive (ever closer union) not a trade motive. So it is divisible. There are also fudges available e.g. taking up the seven year adjustment period rejected by Blair in 2004. There was plenty to negotiate (including a big sum of money to help balance the EU budget) but she didn't even try.
    The seven year adjustment period was a one-off transition that has expired already, not a permanent feature.
This discussion has been closed.