politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The Sun re-does its classic front page on the day of the 1992
Comments
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Conwy CC - coalition of labour plaid lib dems and independent. Conservatives againstchestnut said:
Who runs your local authority?Big_G_NorthWales said:The Daily Mail front page headlines our County (Conwy) move to four week bin collections.
My wife and I manage as we recycle plastic, glass, cardboard and food waste weekly but it is very difficult for many.
Coming to an authority near you apparently
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Yes, it's an odd bit of post-modern self-reference - I doubt if many readers will get it, or for that matter will expect lots of countries to leave the EU.paulbarker said:Of course in the real world their is a queue to join The EU & a bunch of other Countries trying to join the queue. So far, just one Country is leaving, maybe.
EU Governments are generally keen to reach a compromise deal and move on. But the UK Government and its media acolytes may be starting to stir genuine hostility in Continental electorates, which would limit the scope for maneouvre.0 -
In Wales we have had yearly increases of 5% +rottenborough said:
Except that at every opportunity the Mail gets they attack any whiff of council tax increase, adding to the household council tax bands, mansion taxes, using parking fines to help local councils, increasing tax subsides to local councils from central government etc etc.Big_G_NorthWales said:The Daily Mail front page headlines our County (Conwy) move to four week bin collections.
My wife and I manage as we recycle plastic, glass, cardboard and food waste weekly but it is very difficult for many.
Coming to an authority near you apparently0 -
Bradford labour council new first step of one bin per house hold has already sent fly tipping up,then next step is fortnighly collections for a city with large families.foxinsoxuk said:
Take it to the tip rather than dump it in a country layby?Dromedary said:
What do you expect people to do if rubbish isn't collected with reasonable frequency? Put up with rats?Tykejohnno said:
Watch the fly tipping,that is a disgrace.Big_G_NorthWales said:The Daily Mail front page headlines our County (Conwy) move to four week bin collections.
My wife and I manage as we recycle plastic, glass, cardboard and food waste weekly but it is very difficult for many.
Coming to an authority near you apparently0 -
The Council run recycling plants are very good so there is no excuse for fly tippingDromedary said:
What do you expect people to do if rubbish isn't collected with reasonable frequency? Put up with rats?Tykejohnno said:
Watch the fly tipping,that is a disgrace.Big_G_NorthWales said:The Daily Mail front page headlines our County (Conwy) move to four week bin collections.
My wife and I manage as we recycle plastic, glass, cardboard and food waste weekly but it is very difficult for many.
Coming to an authority near you apparently0 -
"Would the last country to leave EU please turn out the lights"
Surely that should say "leave THE EU", it's The EU not just EU, the headline doesn't make sense.
The Sun actually does come up with decent punny headlines, that is one of their redeeming features. This isn't one of them. It seems completely arbitrary that they've taken the Neil Kinnock headline. Where's the connection?0 -
Google has acquired a part of Twitter -- the part that isn't about tweets. Twitter's mobile developer platform Fabric will become part of Google, both companies announced Wednesday.
https://www.engadget.com/2017/01/18/twitter-sells-developer-platform-to-google/0 -
Yes OK, point taken. You are right: there's no excuse for that kind of fly-tipping. But people are right to be angry at being expected to work for free sorting out their rubbish so that big business can get cheaper raw materials. If it was proper recycling we could take things away for free as well as being expected to donate them for free. The atmosphere at some tips is highly officious, complete with checkpoints, document checks, and uniformed tip men working for some French company I forget the name of, ordering people not to throw general assorted rubbish in the "general" skip because this item should go here, that item should go there, etc.foxinsoxuk said:
Take it to the tip rather than dump it in a country layby?Dromedary said:
What do you expect people to do if rubbish isn't collected with reasonable frequency? Put up with rats?Tykejohnno said:
Watch the fly tipping,that is a disgrace.Big_G_NorthWales said:The Daily Mail front page headlines our County (Conwy) move to four week bin collections.
My wife and I manage as we recycle plastic, glass, cardboard and food waste weekly but it is very difficult for many.
Coming to an authority near you apparently
0 -
There is no doubt that the end of the newspaper as a purveyer of news, any news, is on the near horizon.
I think that by 2035 the newspaper industry will be dead. There still may be organisations with the name of the Times or telegraph, but the newspapers themselves will be a thing of the past.
I give books based on paper another 20 years but by 2060 they will be gone except for a very few print runs for special needs.0 -
In my council all the recyclables go in one bin, collected alternate weeks, with non recyclable the following week. The council does the sorting. Works fine.Dromedary said:
Yes OK, point taken. You are right: there's no excuse for that kind of fly-tipping. But people are right to be angry at being expected to work for free sorting out their rubbish so that big business can get cheaper raw materials. If it was proper recycling we could take things away for free as well as being expected to donate them for free. The atmosphere at some tips is highly officious, complete with checkpoints, document checks, and uniformed tip men working for some French company I forget the name of, ordering people not to throw general assorted rubbish in the "general" skip because this item should go here, that item should go there, etc.foxinsoxuk said:
Take it to the tip rather than dump it in a country layby?Dromedary said:
What do you expect people to do if rubbish isn't collected with reasonable frequency? Put up with rats?Tykejohnno said:
Watch the fly tipping,that is a disgrace.Big_G_NorthWales said:The Daily Mail front page headlines our County (Conwy) move to four week bin collections.
My wife and I manage as we recycle plastic, glass, cardboard and food waste weekly but it is very difficult for many.
Coming to an authority near you apparently0 -
If only the rest of the country was like that....my parents have 7 different bins. I have a more reasonable 4 different ones.foxinsoxuk said:
In my council all the recyclables go in one bin, collected alternate weeks, with non recyclable the following week. The council does the sorting. Works fine.Dromedary said:
Yes OK, point taken. You are right: there's no excuse for that kind of fly-tipping. But people are right to be angry at being expected to work for free sorting out their rubbish so that big business can get cheaper raw materials. If it was proper recycling we could take things away for free as well as being expected to donate them for free. The atmosphere at some tips is highly officious, complete with checkpoints, document checks, and uniformed tip men working for some French company I forget the name of, ordering people not to throw general assorted rubbish in the "general" skip because this item should go here, that item should go there, etc.foxinsoxuk said:
Take it to the tip rather than dump it in a country layby?Dromedary said:
What do you expect people to do if rubbish isn't collected with reasonable frequency? Put up with rats?Tykejohnno said:
Watch the fly tipping,that is a disgrace.Big_G_NorthWales said:The Daily Mail front page headlines our County (Conwy) move to four week bin collections.
My wife and I manage as we recycle plastic, glass, cardboard and food waste weekly but it is very difficult for many.
Coming to an authority near you apparently0 -
EU and Kinnock, both losers....Paristonda said:"Would the last country to leave EU please turn out the lights"
Surely that should say "leave THE EU", it's The EU not just EU, the headline doesn't make sense.
The Sun actually does come up with decent punny headlines, that is one of their redeeming features. This isn't one of them. It seems completely arbitrary that they've taken the Neil Kinnock headline. Where's the connection?0 -
We have an optional third bin for garden waste at £40 per year, which I find handy for lawn clippings, hedge cuttings etc.. I compost much myself too.FrancisUrquhart said:
If only the rest of the country was like that....my parents have 7 different bins. I have a more reasonable 4 different ones.foxinsoxuk said:
In my council all the recyclables go in one bin, collected alternate weeks, with non recyclable the following week. The council does the sorting. Works fine.Dromedary said:
Yes OK, point taken. You are right: there's no excuse for that kind of fly-tipping. But people are right to be angry at being expected to work for free sorting out their rubbish so that big business can get cheaper raw materials. If it was proper recycling we could take things away for free as well as being expected to donate them for free. The atmosphere at some tips is highly officious, complete with checkpoints, document checks, and uniformed tip men working for some French company I forget the name of, ordering people not to throw general assorted rubbish in the "general" skip because this item should go here, that item should go there, etc.foxinsoxuk said:
Take it to the tip rather than dump it in a country layby?Dromedary said:
What do you expect people to do if rubbish isn't collected with reasonable frequency? Put up with rats?Tykejohnno said:
Watch the fly tipping,that is a disgrace.Big_G_NorthWales said:The Daily Mail front page headlines our County (Conwy) move to four week bin collections.
My wife and I manage as we recycle plastic, glass, cardboard and food waste weekly but it is very difficult for many.
Coming to an authority near you apparently0 -
I don't think anybody gives physical newspapers a long-term future. Books are different. They aren't a throwaway item like papers, and people like them: correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that the market share for e-reader book sales as a percentage of the total has already flattened off in the UK.MikeK said:There is no doubt that the end of the newspaper as a purveyer of news, any news, is on the near horizon.
I think that by 2035 the newspaper industry will be dead. There still may be organisations with the name of the Times or telegraph, but the newspapers themselves will be a thing of the past.
I give books based on paper another 20 years but by 2060 they will be gone except for a very few print runs for special needs.0 -
Novels and a lot of non-fiction are fine in kindle, but the format is no good for reference books or ones with substantial illustrations.Black_Rook said:
I don't think anybody gives physical newspapers a long-term future. Books are different. They aren't a throwaway item like papers, and people like them: correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that the market share for e-reader book sales as a percentage of the total has already flattened off in the UK.MikeK said:There is no doubt that the end of the newspaper as a purveyer of news, any news, is on the near horizon.
I think that by 2035 the newspaper industry will be dead. There still may be organisations with the name of the Times or telegraph, but the newspapers themselves will be a thing of the past.
I give books based on paper another 20 years but by 2060 they will be gone except for a very few print runs for special needs.0 -
Like the paperless office, there is little sign (yet) that ebooks are going to take over the way mp3 / streaming music has done for the CD and Netflix is apparently killing DVD sales in a similar way.Black_Rook said:
I don't think anybody gives physical newspapers a long-term future. Books are different. They aren't a throwaway item like papers, and people like them: correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that the market share for e-reader book sales as a percentage of the total has already flattened off in the UK.MikeK said:There is no doubt that the end of the newspaper as a purveyer of news, any news, is on the near horizon.
I think that by 2035 the newspaper industry will be dead. There still may be organisations with the name of the Times or telegraph, but the newspapers themselves will be a thing of the past.
I give books based on paper another 20 years but by 2060 they will be gone except for a very few print runs for special needs.
There are a number of problems with e-readers that have yet to have overcome and obviously iPads are far more popular because they can do so many things, but provide a far inferior experience for reading. I have to read a lot for a living and although I screen read pdfs initially, if I really want to take in the info it still gets printed off.0 -
Our garden waste of upto 6 bags is collected fortnightlyfoxinsoxuk said:
We have an optional third bin for garden waste at £40 per year, which I find handy for lawn clippings, hedge cuttings etc.. I compost much myself too.FrancisUrquhart said:
If only the rest of the country was like that....my parents have 7 different bins. I have a more reasonable 4 different ones.foxinsoxuk said:
In my council all the recyclables go in one bin, collected alternate weeks, with non recyclable the following week. The council does the sorting. Works fine.Dromedary said:
Yes OK, point taken. You are right: there's no excuse for that kind of fly-tipping. But people are right to be angry at being expected to work for free sorting out their rubbish so that big business can get cheaper raw materials. If it was proper recycling we could take things away for free as well as being expected to donate them for free. The atmosphere at some tips is highly officious, complete with checkpoints, document checks, and uniformed tip men working for some French company I forget the name of, ordering people not to throw general assorted rubbish in the "general" skip because this item should go here, that item should go there, etc.foxinsoxuk said:
Take it to the tip rather than dump it in a country layby?Dromedary said:
What do you expect people to do if rubbish isn't collected with reasonable frequency? Put up with rats?Tykejohnno said:
Watch the fly tipping,that is a disgrace.Big_G_NorthWales said:The Daily Mail front page headlines our County (Conwy) move to four week bin collections.
My wife and I manage as we recycle plastic, glass, cardboard and food waste weekly but it is very difficult for many.
Coming to an authority near you apparently0 -
I dont think so. We do not yet know who are the losers from Brexit.MarqueeMark said:
EU and Kinnock, both losers....Paristonda said:"Would the last country to leave EU please turn out the lights"
Surely that should say "leave THE EU", it's The EU not just EU, the headline doesn't make sense.
The Sun actually does come up with decent punny headlines, that is one of their redeeming features. This isn't one of them. It seems completely arbitrary that they've taken the Neil Kinnock headline. Where's the connection?
Kinnock is the man who made Labour electable again. If he had won in 1992 tbe world would have been a better place.
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Kinnock lost two GEs on the trot! Double LOSER!foxinsoxuk said:
I dont think so. We do not yet know who are the losers from Brexit.MarqueeMark said:
EU and Kinnock, both losers....Paristonda said:"Would the last country to leave EU please turn out the lights"
Surely that should say "leave THE EU", it's The EU not just EU, the headline doesn't make sense.
The Sun actually does come up with decent punny headlines, that is one of their redeeming features. This isn't one of them. It seems completely arbitrary that they've taken the Neil Kinnock headline. Where's the connection?
Kinnock is the man who made Labour electable again. If he had won in 1992 tbe world would have been a better place.0 -
Agree, Kinnock helped make Labour electable. But look what he had to go through. Who is present Labour party has the guts, determination and frankly sheer bloody mindlessness to take on the Left today? Most of them are looking for jobs running museums.foxinsoxuk said:
I dont think so. We do not yet know who are the losers from Brexit.MarqueeMark said:
EU and Kinnock, both losers....Paristonda said:"Would the last country to leave EU please turn out the lights"
Surely that should say "leave THE EU", it's The EU not just EU, the headline doesn't make sense.
The Sun actually does come up with decent punny headlines, that is one of their redeeming features. This isn't one of them. It seems completely arbitrary that they've taken the Neil Kinnock headline. Where's the connection?
Kinnock is the man who made Labour electable again. If he had won in 1992 tbe world would have been a better place.0 -
Does the Sun front page tweet count as fake news?0
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YouGov Westminster VI GB wide (fieldwork this week, I think post Mrs May's speech)
Con 42 (+3) Lab 25 (-3) UKIP 12 (-1) Lib Dems 11 (nc)0 -
So the weird thing about this is that the government seem to be optimizing for short-term domestic politics, even though the main opposition is completely preoccupied with entertaining itself in a gentleman's manner and the next scheduled election isn't until 2020.NickPalmer said:But the UK Government and its media acolytes may be starting to stir genuine hostility in Continental electorates, which would limit the scope for maneouvre.
Potential explanations:
1) They plan to have an election soon
2) They have no idea what the fuck they're doing
3) May plans to strike a shitty deal or no-deal, tell everybody she tried then un-Brexit
I think it's a vague combination of (1) and (2), but it's hard to read.0 -
5...4...3...2...1....Justin tells us it isn't that bad for Labour.TheScreamingEagles said:YouGov Westminster VI GB wide (fieldwork this week, I think post Mrs May's speech)
Con 42 (+3) Lab 25 (-3) UKIP 12 (-1) Lib Dems 11 (nc)0 -
I would like to believe that this was the case, but the mood music is not good. Firstly Mrs May can't win with her negotiating tactics: having learned from close observation the way that the EU treated Dave "The Doormat" Cameron, she chooses to deploy the carrot and stick approach instead and is immediately lambasted as belligerent - a description that might equally be applied to quite a lot of the noises that have been emanating from the Continent ever since June 24th last year.NickPalmer said:
Yes, it's an odd bit of post-modern self-reference - I doubt if many readers will get it, or for that matter will expect lots of countries to leave the EU.paulbarker said:Of course in the real world their is a queue to join The EU & a bunch of other Countries trying to join the queue. So far, just one Country is leaving, maybe.
EU Governments are generally keen to reach a compromise deal and move on. But the UK Government and its media acolytes may be starting to stir genuine hostility in Continental electorates, which would limit the scope for maneouvre.
Secondly, having respected the EU's total commitment to the four freedoms and, accordingly, not even bothering to ask for anything like the EEA option, practically the first thing she gets is our old friend Mr Verhofstadt jumping up and down and repeating his usual guff about cherry picking.
I remain to be convinced that they actually want any kind of deal at all - but que sera sera. At least when this is all over they'll have us well out of the way of their grand plans, and we can do our best to put this entire nightmarish episode behind us. Europe - in geopolitical terms, at least - has never been a source of anything other than sheer bloody misery for this country, and the less we have to do with its internal machinations in future, the better.0 -
He gained seats in both elections he fought, bringing the party back from the abyss.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Kinnock lost two GEs on the trot! Double LOSER!foxinsoxuk said:
I dont think so. We do not yet know who are the losers from Brexit.MarqueeMark said:
EU and Kinnock, both losers....Paristonda said:"Would the last country to leave EU please turn out the lights"
Surely that should say "leave THE EU", it's The EU not just EU, the headline doesn't make sense.
The Sun actually does come up with decent punny headlines, that is one of their redeeming features. This isn't one of them. It seems completely arbitrary that they've taken the Neil Kinnock headline. Where's the connection?
Kinnock is the man who made Labour electable again. If he had won in 1992 tbe world would have been a better place.
If he had won, we would not have had New Lablur, Tony Blair would have been an upstart cabinet member, and quite possibly no British part in a Gulf war. It was an opportunity missed.0 -
More YouGov
Re Mrs May's Brexit plans
55% said it would be good for Britain, 19% said it would not, 26% did not know.0 -
48% of voters agreed that “no deal is better than a bad deal”, 17% thought Mrs May should be prepared to sign a deal even if it fell short of hopes.0
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47% of voters have confidence in the PM's negotiating skills, 38% do not.0
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YouGov Double Diamond Status confirmed!TheScreamingEagles said:YouGov Westminster VI GB wide (fieldwork this week, I think post Mrs May's speech)
Con 42 (+3) Lab 25 (-3) UKIP 12 (-1) Lib Dems 11 (nc)0 -
Timshel!RobD said:
YouGov Double Diamond Status confirmed!TheScreamingEagles said:YouGov Westminster VI GB wide (fieldwork this week, I think post Mrs May's speech)
Con 42 (+3) Lab 25 (-3) UKIP 12 (-1) Lib Dems 11 (nc)0 -
20% thought other EU member states would agree to the sort of deal Mrs May was proposing, while 56 % did not, with 25% unsure.0
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Seems the GB public aren't impressed by Corbyn's focus upon Mesut Ozil's wage demands.0
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19% thought that the UK needed the EU more than the EU needed the UK, with 34% saying the reverse. 28% said they needed one another equally0
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40 per cent believed Brexit would leave the UK worse off, with 29 per cent saying it would be better off. There was a clear lead among those believing it would leave the UK with less influence.0
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83% have absolutely no idea what "no deal" would mean.TheScreamingEagles said:48% of voters agreed that “no deal is better than a bad deal”, 17% thought Mrs May should be prepared to sign a deal even if it fell short of hopes.
The problem is that the government isn't preparing them for this either, so how do they sell them what they actually end up with?0 -
That is true - what you wrote about books - but new types of iPad like reading machines will be developed. You may be able to read anything through specially adapted glasses.FrancisUrquhart said:
Like the paperless office, there is little sign (yet) that ebooks are going to take over the way mp3 / streaming music has done for the CD and Netflix is apparently killing DVD sales in a similar way.Black_Rook said:
I don't think anybody gives physical newspapers a long-term future. Books are different. They aren't a throwaway item like papers, and people like them: correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that the market share for e-reader book sales as a percentage of the total has already flattened off in the UK.MikeK said:There is no doubt that the end of the newspaper as a purveyer of news, any news, is on the near horizon.
I think that by 2035 the newspaper industry will be dead. There still may be organisations with the name of the Times or telegraph, but the newspapers themselves will be a thing of the past.
I give books based on paper another 20 years but by 2060 they will be gone except for a very few print runs for special needs.
There are a number of problems with e-readers that have yet to have overcome and obviously iPads are far more popular because they can do so many things, but provide a far inferior experience for reading. I have to read a lot for a living and although I screen read pdfs initially, if I really want to take in the info it still gets printed off.0 -
I'm wondering if the Tories might just pull it off in Copeland. Gov'ts don't normally win by-elections, but gov'ts aren't normally 17 points ahead at this stage either.0
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For that weird section of the population that have had too much Brexit but not enough analysis of the US Presidential Election, here is a great piece, as usual, from Sean Trende, looking at the evolution of the Dem vote in the US Northeast. His observations on Maine and PA are particularly eye-opening for their implications for future Presidential, gubernatorial, senate and House elections:
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2017/01/18/how_trump_won_the_northeast_132827.html0 -
Aren't those type of light bulbs banned by an EU Directive?0
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No-one has to buy so much junk. It wasn't that long ago that ashcans and dustbins contained... ash and dust.Dromedary said:
Yes OK, point taken. You are right: there's no excuse for that kind of fly-tipping. But people are right to be angry at being expected to work for free sorting out their rubbish so that big business can get cheaper raw materials.foxinsoxuk said:
Take it to the tip rather than dump it in a country layby?Dromedary said:
What do you expect people to do if rubbish isn't collected with reasonable frequency? Put up with rats?Tykejohnno said:
Watch the fly tipping,that is a disgrace.Big_G_NorthWales said:The Daily Mail front page headlines our County (Conwy) move to four week bin collections.
My wife and I manage as we recycle plastic, glass, cardboard and food waste weekly but it is very difficult for many.
Coming to an authority near you apparently
If you must buy so much junk, the least you can do is wash it and sort it a little so that some poor shmucks don't have to spenf 8 hours a day going through it. Ugh.0 -
I am not saying never, just saying there is a way to go. There are also issues above and beyond just the screen e.g. interacting with a book, marking your page, quickly flicking from one page to another, illustrations / diagrams, etc etc etc.MikeK said:
That is true - what you wrote about books - but new types of iPad like reading machines will be developed. You may be able to read anything through specially adapted glasses.FrancisUrquhart said:
Like the paperless office, there is little sign (yet) that ebooks are going to take over the way mp3 / streaming music has done for the CD and Netflix is apparently killing DVD sales in a similar way.Black_Rook said:
I don't think anybody gives physical newspapers a long-term future. Books are different. They aren't a throwaway item like papers, and people like them: correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that the market share for e-reader book sales as a percentage of the total has already flattened off in the UK.MikeK said:There is no doubt that the end of the newspaper as a purveyer of news, any news, is on the near horizon.
I think that by 2035 the newspaper industry will be dead. There still may be organisations with the name of the Times or telegraph, but the newspapers themselves will be a thing of the past.
I give books based on paper another 20 years but by 2060 they will be gone except for a very few print runs for special needs.
There are a number of problems with e-readers that have yet to have overcome and obviously iPads are far more popular because they can do so many things, but provide a far inferior experience for reading. I have to read a lot for a living and although I screen read pdfs initially, if I really want to take in the info it still gets printed off.
MR (mixed reality) could be one solution to this, but this is still an open research problem, let alone the resolution required for reading books.0 -
In 1952 Newcastle council by-election.....FrancisUrquhart said:
5...4...3...2...1....Justin tells us it isn't that bad for Labour.TheScreamingEagles said:YouGov Westminster VI GB wide (fieldwork this week, I think post Mrs May's speech)
Con 42 (+3) Lab 25 (-3) UKIP 12 (-1) Lib Dems 11 (nc)0 -
David_Evershed said:
Aren't those type of light bulbs banned by an EU Directive?
0 -
Oh no no no, that is far too big an event, I think you mean the famous parish council election in Jarrow in 1889.matt said:
In 1952 Newcastle council by-election.....FrancisUrquhart said:
5...4...3...2...1....Justin tells us it isn't that bad for Labour.TheScreamingEagles said:YouGov Westminster VI GB wide (fieldwork this week, I think post Mrs May's speech)
Con 42 (+3) Lab 25 (-3) UKIP 12 (-1) Lib Dems 11 (nc)0 -
The gist of @TheScreamingEagles handy reportage of this poll on Twitter seems to be as follows:edmundintokyo said:
83% have absolutely no idea what "no deal" would mean.TheScreamingEagles said:48% of voters agreed that “no deal is better than a bad deal”, 17% thought Mrs May should be prepared to sign a deal even if it fell short of hopes.
The problem is that the government isn't preparing them for this either, so how do they sell them what they actually end up with?
1. Public like plan.
2. Public don't think EU will give PM what she wants.
3. More people think UK will be worse off than better off due to Brexit.
And therefore...
4. The Tories' polling numbers have gone up, Labour's have gone down, and the Lib Dems are becalmed.
Confused? I'm not. Most of the Leavers are prepared to put up with a bit of hardship to be rid of the EU, and virtually all of the Leavers and a lot of the Remainers as well are going to blame the EU for its intransigence of May doesn't get a half-decent deal. This country has a stubborn streak running through it a mile thick, and the EU itself is unloved and widely mistrusted. Mrs May can take whatever she gets to Parliament in 2019, safe in the knowledge that any attempt to block it in the Lords will allow her to force a snap election, which she would almost certainly win by a landslide. QED.0 -
Broken, sleazy Labour and UKIP on the slideTheScreamingEagles said:YouGov Westminster VI GB wide (fieldwork this week, I think post Mrs May's speech)
Con 42 (+3) Lab 25 (-3) UKIP 12 (-1) Lib Dems 11 (nc)
0 -
Still rubbish. Labour are 5 points above where they really will be in a GE if Corbyn, Abbott, Seamus and co continue to run the show.matt said:
In 1952 Newcastle council by-election.....FrancisUrquhart said:
5...4...3...2...1....Justin tells us it isn't that bad for Labour.TheScreamingEagles said:YouGov Westminster VI GB wide (fieldwork this week, I think post Mrs May's speech)
Con 42 (+3) Lab 25 (-3) UKIP 12 (-1) Lib Dems 11 (nc)0 -
Hmm. Bridge-burning isn't very helpful if the bridge is the best way to get the shiny Jags and Land Rovers across the river... I wonder if it'll get to the point (if it hasn't already) that the govt spin doctors ask the Sun, Express and Mail to cool it as they're starting to do more harm than good...NickPalmer said:
Yes, it's an odd bit of post-modern self-reference - I doubt if many readers will get it, or for that matter will expect lots of countries to leave the EU.paulbarker said:Of course in the real world their is a queue to join The EU & a bunch of other Countries trying to join the queue. So far, just one Country is leaving, maybe.
EU Governments are generally keen to reach a compromise deal and move on. But the UK Government and its media acolytes may be starting to stir genuine hostility in Continental electorates, which would limit the scope for maneouvre.0 -
I totally get the way the voters are responding now. What I'm not seeing is the government's strategy. I can't believe they're going to merrily just crash out of the EU without a deal however attractive that might sound to the voters now, but if they don't intend to do that they're going to need to prepare the voters for the deal they're going to end up taking.Black_Rook said:
The gist of @TheScreamingEagles handy reportage of this poll on Twitter seems to be as follows:edmundintokyo said:
83% have absolutely no idea what "no deal" would mean.TheScreamingEagles said:48% of voters agreed that “no deal is better than a bad deal”, 17% thought Mrs May should be prepared to sign a deal even if it fell short of hopes.
The problem is that the government isn't preparing them for this either, so how do they sell them what they actually end up with?
1. Public like plan.
2. Public don't think EU will give PM what she wants.
3. More people think UK will be worse off than better off due to Brexit.
And therefore...
4. The Tories' polling numbers have gone up, Labour's have gone down, and the Lib Dems are becalmed.
Confused? I'm not. Most of the Leavers are prepared to put up with a bit of hardship to be rid of the EU, and virtually all of the Leavers and a lot of the Remainers as well are going to blame the EU for its intransigence of May doesn't get a half-decent deal. This country has a stubborn streak running through it a mile thick, and the EU itself is unloved and widely mistrusted. Mrs May can take whatever she gets to Parliament in 2019, safe in the knowledge that any attempt to block it in the Lords will allow her to force a snap election, which she would almost certainly win by a landslide. QED.0 -
I think they will, and said this almost as soon as the resignation of the sitting MP was announced. You're quite right that it's highly unusual for the Opposition to ship a seat to the Government in this way, but in this particular case circumstances are so extraordinary that I actually think they'll be disappointed not to do it. And that despite the fact that it has been a Labour seat continuously since 1935!Pulpstar said:I'm wondering if the Tories might just pull it off in Copeland. Gov'ts don't normally win by-elections, but gov'ts aren't normally 17 points ahead at this stage either.
0 -
I struggle with that but equally I'm not close enough to the (residual) soft Labour supporting part of the electorate to want to risk material amounts of money on what would be for me glorified speculation.rottenborough said:
Still rubbish. Labour are 5 points above where they really will be in a GE if Corbyn, Abbott, Seamus and co continue to run the show.matt said:
In 1952 Newcastle council by-election.....FrancisUrquhart said:
5...4...3...2...1....Justin tells us it isn't that bad for Labour.TheScreamingEagles said:YouGov Westminster VI GB wide (fieldwork this week, I think post Mrs May's speech)
Con 42 (+3) Lab 25 (-3) UKIP 12 (-1) Lib Dems 11 (nc)0 -
Punters on BF think so, 4/5 at moment.Pulpstar said:I'm wondering if the Tories might just pull it off in Copeland. Gov'ts don't normally win by-elections, but gov'ts aren't normally 17 points ahead at this stage either.
0 -
By the way, I'm prepared to back odds on that the Edl twitter accounts you linked to are fake... want to bet?TheScreamingEagles said:40 per cent believed Brexit would leave the UK worse off, with 29 per cent saying it would be better off. There was a clear lead among those believing it would leave the UK with less influence.
0 -
One factor in forthcoming Labour by-elections must surely be that moderate MPs (i.e. blairite scum, Alistair Campbell's love children, potential museum directors, capitalist running dogs etc etc) must be half hoping for losses - help to bring on a new leadership election.0
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Nope, I got dragged into a twitter discussion a few weeks ago about this.rottenborough said:One factor in forthcoming Labour by-elections must surely be that moderate MPs (i.e. blairite scum, Alistair Campbell's love children, potential museum directors, capitalist running dogs etc etc) must be half hoping for losses - help to bring on a new leadership election.
If Labour loses Copeland it will be down to the Blairite Red Tory scum not backing Corbyn/trying to topple him.
Because that's what a Tory MP told Momentum off the record0 -
It sounds like the plan is not to achieve a goal, but to blame the EU for the plan's failure. I wish I could say I was surprised. We used to be good at winning, but now we concentrate on failing and blaming.Black_Rook said:
The gist of @TheScreamingEagles handy reportage of this poll on Twitter seems to be as follows:edmundintokyo said:
83% have absolutely no idea what "no deal" would mean.TheScreamingEagles said:48% of voters agreed that “no deal is better than a bad deal”, 17% thought Mrs May should be prepared to sign a deal even if it fell short of hopes.
The problem is that the government isn't preparing them for this either, so how do they sell them what they actually end up with?
1. Public like plan.
2. Public don't think EU will give PM what she wants.
3. More people think UK will be worse off than better off due to Brexit.
And therefore...
4. The Tories' polling numbers have gone up, Labour's have gone down, and the Lib Dems are becalmed.
Confused? I'm not. Most of the Leavers are prepared to put up with a bit of hardship to be rid of the EU, and virtually all of the Leavers and a lot of the Remainers as well are going to blame the EU for its intransigence of May doesn't get a half-decent deal. This country has a stubborn streak running through it a mile thick, and the EU itself is unloved and widely mistrusted. Mrs May can take whatever she gets to Parliament in 2019, safe in the knowledge that any attempt to block it in the Lords will allow her to force a snap election, which she would almost certainly win by a landslide. QED.
(sorry it's an old complaint of mine)0 -
I think they're genuine about wanting to negotiate something, but they are actually preparing the ground in case they come away with little or nothing. Like I said, they can simply blame the EU for being unreasonable.edmundintokyo said:
I totally get the way the voters are responding now. What I'm not seeing is the government's strategy. I can't believe they're going to merrily just crash out of the EU without a deal however attractive that might sound to the voters now, but if they don't intend to do that they're going to need to prepare the voters for the deal they're going to end up taking.Black_Rook said:
The gist of @TheScreamingEagles handy reportage of this poll on Twitter seems to be as follows:edmundintokyo said:
83% have absolutely no idea what "no deal" would mean.TheScreamingEagles said:48% of voters agreed that “no deal is better than a bad deal”, 17% thought Mrs May should be prepared to sign a deal even if it fell short of hopes.
The problem is that the government isn't preparing them for this either, so how do they sell them what they actually end up with?
1. Public like plan.
2. Public don't think EU will give PM what she wants.
3. More people think UK will be worse off than better off due to Brexit.
And therefore...
4. The Tories' polling numbers have gone up, Labour's have gone down, and the Lib Dems are becalmed.
Confused? I'm not. Most of the Leavers are prepared to put up with a bit of hardship to be rid of the EU, and virtually all of the Leavers and a lot of the Remainers as well are going to blame the EU for its intransigence of May doesn't get a half-decent deal. This country has a stubborn streak running through it a mile thick, and the EU itself is unloved and widely mistrusted. Mrs May can take whatever she gets to Parliament in 2019, safe in the knowledge that any attempt to block it in the Lords will allow her to force a snap election, which she would almost certainly win by a landslide. QED.
The EU's reputation has already been shredded over its handling of multiple crises, and especially its treatment of Greece. It is a bully, and has been seen to act like one. And therefore voters, especially the majority who backed Leave, are far more likely to come down on the side of Theresa May than Jean-Claude Juncker in any spat, don't you think?0 -
I can't imagine it is going to get any better than this Mrs M / the Tories.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Lies. Lies. Capitalist lies. The polls are made up by Bilderberg lackeys etc etc. Non-voters will pour to the ballot boxes once they see the true choices on offer. This is what Trump did. etc etc.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Don't forget swingback, and most crucially this.FrancisUrquhart said:
I can't imagine it is going to get any better than this Mrs M / the Tories.TheScreamingEagles said:
Dave led Ed Miliband by around 10% to 15% on the best PM front, Mrs May leads Corbyn by 33%0 -
Have just responded to someone else about this, but in brief no, I don't think that Mrs May intentionally wants to fail. I just think she has the ground prepared if she does, that's all. If you had to deal with the EU, wouldn't you?viewcode said:
It sounds like the plan is not to achieve a goal, but to blame the EU for the plan's failure. I wish I could say I was surprised. We used to be good at winning, but now we concentrate on failing and blaming.Black_Rook said:
The gist of @TheScreamingEagles handy reportage of this poll on Twitter seems to be as follows:edmundintokyo said:
83% have absolutely no idea what "no deal" would mean.TheScreamingEagles said:48% of voters agreed that “no deal is better than a bad deal”, 17% thought Mrs May should be prepared to sign a deal even if it fell short of hopes.
The problem is that the government isn't preparing them for this either, so how do they sell them what they actually end up with?
1. Public like plan.
2. Public don't think EU will give PM what she wants.
3. More people think UK will be worse off than better off due to Brexit.
And therefore...
4. The Tories' polling numbers have gone up, Labour's have gone down, and the Lib Dems are becalmed.
Confused? I'm not. Most of the Leavers are prepared to put up with a bit of hardship to be rid of the EU, and virtually all of the Leavers and a lot of the Remainers as well are going to blame the EU for its intransigence of May doesn't get a half-decent deal. This country has a stubborn streak running through it a mile thick, and the EU itself is unloved and widely mistrusted. Mrs May can take whatever she gets to Parliament in 2019, safe in the knowledge that any attempt to block it in the Lords will allow her to force a snap election, which she would almost certainly win by a landslide. QED.
(sorry it's an old complaint of mine)0 -
The problem isn't selling no-deal, it's selling the UK's concessions. UKIP will be screaming that it's a sell-out. Will the voters take "they bullied me" as an answer? I suppose Tsipras got away with it, but he has highly-developed shrugging skills.Black_Rook said:
I think they're genuine about wanting to negotiate something, but they are actually preparing the ground in case they come away with little or nothing. Like I said, they can simply blame the EU for being unreasonable.
The EU's reputation has already been shredded over its handling of multiple crises, and especially its treatment of Greece. It is a bully, and has been seen to act like one. And therefore voters, especially the majority who backed Leave, are far more likely to come down on the side of Theresa May than Jean-Claude Juncker in any spat, don't you think?0 -
TheScreamingEagles said:
Nope, I got dragged into a twitter discussion a few weeks ago about this.rottenborough said:One factor in forthcoming Labour by-elections must surely be that moderate MPs (i.e. blairite scum, Alistair Campbell's love children, potential museum directors, capitalist running dogs etc etc) must be half hoping for losses - help to bring on a new leadership election.
If Labour loses Copeland it will be down to the Blairite Red Tory scum not backing Corbyn/trying to topple him.
Because that's what a Tory MP told Momentum off the record Which is why moderates have gone to ground. Spending an astonishing amount of time in their constituencies opening supermarkets or whatever.
Corbyn has to own the forthcoming apocalypse.0 -
Any residual waste not recycled goes to an incinerator to be burned nowadays. The emissions from the incinerator may damage your health if you live within range.Big_G_NorthWales said:The Daily Mail front page headlines our County (Conwy) move to four week bin collections.
My wife and I manage as we recycle plastic, glass, cardboard and food waste weekly but it is very difficult for many.
Coming to an authority near you apparently
Government landfill tax has made landfill prohibitively expensive for council household waste and commercial waste alike. The government did this to divert waste from landfill to meet an EU directive which is driven by reducing carbon emissions and global warming. However, the trade off is the emissions of poisonous gases from the incinerators.0 -
You may be right, but I doubt if it'll get that much worse, either. Where else are all those Tory voters meant to go? Labour have gone mad, and both Ukip and Anti-Ukip (aka the Lib Dems) are radical choices with relatively narrow appeal, albeit for somewhat different reasons. The former is becalmed in the polls; the latter has at least managed to pick up 2-3 points on the General Election, but now appears to have got stuck again. My suspicion is that they've already hoovered up most of the hard core Continuity Remain vote, mostly represented by crestfallen ex-Labour supporters, but are finding further defections increasingly hard to come by.FrancisUrquhart said:
I can't imagine it is going to get any better than this Mrs M / the Tories.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Interesting read, thank youMTimT said:For that weird section of the population that have had too much Brexit but not enough analysis of the US Presidential Election, here is a great piece, as usual, from Sean Trende, looking at the evolution of the Dem vote in the US Northeast. His observations on Maine and PA are particularly eye-opening for their implications for future Presidential, gubernatorial, senate and House elections:
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2017/01/18/how_trump_won_the_northeast_132827.html0 -
The Financial Times says the UK's oustanding liabilties with the EU for future pensions and other future commitments is of the order of £50bn.
If the EU didn't offer a free trade arrangement and we revert to WTO rules then I don't see us paying anything towards the liabilities. Puts the UK in a strong negotiating position.0 -
If the Prime Minister thinks she can sell the deal, she will sell it. If she can't, she'll walk away. I would think that the difference between a saleable and unsaleable deal would be the balance between what the EU is prepared to offer, and what the UK has to give in return - that is, a minimal deal would still be worth bringing back if the burdens that it imposes on us are not too onerous. She can sell it as being worth having, whilst still intimating that its limitations are down to the reluctance of the EU negotiators to agree something more comprehensive.edmundintokyo said:
The problem isn't selling no-deal, it's selling the UK's concessions. UKIP will be screaming that it's a sell-out. Will the voters take "they bullied me" as an answer? I suppose Tsipras got away with it, but he has highly-developed shrugging skills.Black_Rook said:
I think they're genuine about wanting to negotiate something, but they are actually preparing the ground in case they come away with little or nothing. Like I said, they can simply blame the EU for being unreasonable.
The EU's reputation has already been shredded over its handling of multiple crises, and especially its treatment of Greece. It is a bully, and has been seen to act like one. And therefore voters, especially the majority who backed Leave, are far more likely to come down on the side of Theresa May than Jean-Claude Juncker in any spat, don't you think?
Ukip will scream at almost anything, but so long as the Prime Minister doesn't completely cave in I'm reasonably confident that they will remain a sideshow.0 -
-
We'll see. The UK is bound to be on the hook for some half-finished projects and, realistically, we'll have to cough up for those.David_Evershed said:The Financial Times says the UK's oustanding liabilties with the EU for future pensions and other future commitments is of the order of £50bn.
If the EU didn't offer a free trade arrangement and we revert to WTO rules then I don't see us paying anything towards the liabilities. Puts the UK in a strong negotiating position.
Pension liabilities are much more controversial. These, presumably, should be fully funded by contributions over the employees' careers? If the European Commission hasn't been bothering to top up its pension funds properly then that, presumably, is their lookout? But anyway, I'm sure all this sort of thing will come out in the wash.0 -
I think the EU pension scheme, like most government pension schemes, is unfunded. Pay as you go.Black_Rook said:
We'll see. The UK is bound to be on the hook for some half-finished projects and, realistically, we'll have to cough up for those.David_Evershed said:The Financial Times says the UK's oustanding liabilties with the EU for future pensions and other future commitments is of the order of £50bn.
If the EU didn't offer a free trade arrangement and we revert to WTO rules then I don't see us paying anything towards the liabilities. Puts the UK in a strong negotiating position.
Pension liabilities are much more controversial. These, presumably, should be fully funded by contributions over the employees' careers? If the European Commission hasn't been bothering to top up its pension funds properly then that, presumably, is their lookout? But anyway, I'm sure all this sort of thing will come out in the wash.0 -
Fair point, but "not wanting to fail" is not a plan for successBlack_Rook said:
Have just responded to someone else about this, but in brief no, I don't think that Mrs May intentionally wants to fail. I just think she has the ground prepared if she does, that's all. If you had to deal with the EU, wouldn't you?viewcode said:
It sounds like the plan is not to achieve a goal, but to blame the EU for the plan's failure. I wish I could say I was surprised. We used to be good at winning, but now we concentrate on failing and blaming.Black_Rook said:
The gist of @TheScreamingEagles handy reportage of this poll on Twitter seems to be as follows:edmundintokyo said:
83% have absolutely no idea what "no deal" would mean.TheScreamingEagles said:48% of voters agreed that “no deal is better than a bad deal”, 17% thought Mrs May should be prepared to sign a deal even if it fell short of hopes.
The problem is that the government isn't preparing them for this either, so how do they sell them what they actually end up with?
1. Public like plan.
2. Public don't think EU will give PM what she wants.
3. More people think UK will be worse off than better off due to Brexit.
And therefore...
4. The Tories' polling numbers have gone up, Labour's have gone down, and the Lib Dems are becalmed.
Confused? I'm not. Most of the Leavers are prepared to put up with a bit of hardship to be rid of the EU, and virtually all of the Leavers and a lot of the Remainers as well are going to blame the EU for its intransigence of May doesn't get a half-decent deal. This country has a stubborn streak running through it a mile thick, and the EU itself is unloved and widely mistrusted. Mrs May can take whatever she gets to Parliament in 2019, safe in the knowledge that any attempt to block it in the Lords will allow her to force a snap election, which she would almost certainly win by a landslide. QED.
(sorry it's an old complaint of mine)0 -
YouGov Poll shows % public preference as follows
Hard Brexit 39
Soft Brexit 25
Remain 23
Not sure 13
See
https://yougov.co.uk/news/2017/01/16/public-split-what-kind-brexit-they-think-governmen/
0 -
What about Aquafresh Brexit?David_Evershed said:YouGov Poll shows % public preference as follows
Hard Brexit 39
Soft Brexit 25
Remain 23
Not sure 13
See
https://yougov.co.uk/news/2017/01/16/public-split-what-kind-brexit-they-think-governmen/0 -
I am happy to read books on Kindle that do not require flipping back and forth between chapters. But have reverted to hardcopy for work books, even though that entails more typing in making notes than simply downloading my highlighted sections.FrancisUrquhart said:
I am not saying never, just saying there is a way to go. There are also issues above and beyond just the screen e.g. interacting with a book, marking your page, quickly flicking from one page to another, illustrations / diagrams, etc etc etc.MikeK said:
That is true - what you wrote about books - but new types of iPad like reading machines will be developed. You may be able to read anything through specially adapted glasses.FrancisUrquhart said:
Like the paperless office, there is little sign (yet) that ebooks are going to take over the way mp3 / streaming music has done for the CD and Netflix is apparently killing DVD sales in a similar way.Black_Rook said:
I don't think anybody gives physical newspapers a long-term future. Books are different. They aren't a throwaway item like papers, and people like them: correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that the market share for e-reader book sales as a percentage of the total has already flattened off in the UK.MikeK said:There is no doubt that the end of the newspaper as a purveyer of news, any news, is on the near horizon.
I think that by 2035 the newspaper industry will be dead. There still may be organisations with the name of the Times or telegraph, but the newspapers themselves will be a thing of the past.
I give books based on paper another 20 years but by 2060 they will be gone except for a very few print runs for special needs.
There are a number of problems with e-readers that have yet to have overcome and obviously iPads are far more popular because they can do so many things, but provide a far inferior experience for reading. I have to read a lot for a living and although I screen read pdfs initially, if I really want to take in the info it still gets printed off.
MR (mixed reality) could be one solution to this, but this is still an open research problem, let alone the resolution required for reading books.0 -
Pretty much same here. Kindle vs iPad for reading is chalk and cheese for reading a novel by the pool on holibobs, but for work use there isn't a solution that beats paper.MTimT said:
I am happy to read books on Kindle that do not require flipping back and forth between chapters. But have reverted to hardcopy for work books, even though that entails more typing in making notes than simply downloading my highlighted sections.FrancisUrquhart said:
I am not saying never, just saying there is a way to go. There are also issues above and beyond just the screen e.g. interacting with a book, marking your page, quickly flicking from one page to another, illustrations / diagrams, etc etc etc.MikeK said:
That is true - what you wrote about books - but new types of iPad like reading machines will be developed. You may be able to read anything through specially adapted glasses.FrancisUrquhart said:
Like the paperless office, there is little sign (yet) that ebooks are going to take over the way mp3 / streaming music has done for the CD and Netflix is apparently killing DVD sales in a similar way.Black_Rook said:
I don't think anybody gives physical newspapers a long-term future. Books are different. They aren't a throwaway item like papers, and people like them: correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that the market share for e-reader book sales as a percentage of the total has already flattened off in the UK.MikeK said:There is no doubt that the end of the newspaper as a purveyer of news, any news, is on the near horizon.
I think that by 2035 the newspaper industry will be dead. There still may be organisations with the name of the Times or telegraph, but the newspapers themselves will be a thing of the past.
I give books based on paper another 20 years but by 2060 they will be gone except for a very few print runs for special needs.
There are a number of problems with e-readers that have yet to have overcome and obviously iPads are far more popular because they can do so many things, but provide a far inferior experience for reading. I have to read a lot for a living and although I screen read pdfs initially, if I really want to take in the info it still gets printed off.
MR (mixed reality) could be one solution to this, but this is still an open research problem, let alone the resolution required for reading books.0 -
So 48 v 39David_Evershed said:YouGov Poll shows % public preference as follows
Hard Brexit 39
Soft Brexit 25
Remain 23
Not sure 13
See
https://yougov.co.uk/news/2017/01/16/public-split-what-kind-brexit-they-think-governmen/0 -
@BritainElects:TheScreamingEagles said:YouGov Westminster VI GB wide (fieldwork this week, I think post Mrs May's speech)
Con 42 (+3) Lab 25 (-3) UKIP 12 (-1) Lib Dems 11 (nc)
Westminster VI:
CON: 42% (+3)
LAB: 25% (-3)
UKIP: 12% (-1)
LDEM: 11% (-)
(YouGov / fieldwork post-Tuesday)
So yes, post-speech0 -
Or 64 vs 23 for some form of Brexit. Without asking a forced choice question there is little point speculating.surbiton said:
So 48 v 39David_Evershed said:YouGov Poll shows % public preference as follows
Hard Brexit 39
Soft Brexit 25
Remain 23
Not sure 13
See
https://yougov.co.uk/news/2017/01/16/public-split-what-kind-brexit-they-think-governmen/0 -
I take it the Sun Merkel Lightbulb front page which exercised the more sensitive souls was a spoof?0
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When will The Sun's circulation is reach zero ?0
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Black_Rook said:
.edmundintokyo said:
The problem isn't selling no-deal, it's selling the UK's concessions. UKIP will be screaming that it's a sell-out. Will the voters take "they bullied me" as an answer? I suppose Tsipras got away with it, but he has highly-developed shrugging skills.Black_Rook said:
I think they're genuine about wanting to negotiate something, but they are actually preparing the ground in case they come away with little or nothing. Like I said, they can simply blame the EU for being unreasonable.
When did it become a fact in the UK that a referendum was no longer advisory and Parliament just a side show ?Black_Rook said:
If the Prime Minister thinks she can sell the deal, she will sell it. If she can't, she'll walk away. I would think that the difference between a saleable and unsaleable deal would be the balance between what the EU is prepared to offer, and what the UK has to give in return - that is, a minimal deal would still be worth bringing back if the burdens that it imposes on us are not too onerous. She can sell it as being worth having, whilst still intimating that its limitations are down to the reluctance of the EU negotiators to agree something more comprehensive.edmundintokyo said:
The problem isn't selling no-deal, it's selling the UK's concessions. UKIP will be screaming that it's a sell-out. Will the voters take "they bullied me" as an answer? I suppose Tsipras got away with it, but he has highly-developed shrugging skills.Black_Rook said:
I think they're genuine about wanting to negotiate something, but they are actually preparing the ground in case they come away with little or nothing. Like I said, they can simply blame the EU for being unreasonable.
The EU's reputation has already been shredded over its handling of multiple crises, and especially its treatment of Greece. It is a bully, and has been seen to act like one. And therefore voters, especially the majority who backed Leave, are far more likely to come down on the side of Theresa May than Jean-Claude Juncker in any spat, don't you think?
Ukip will scream at almost anything, but so long as the Prime Minister doesn't completely cave in I'm reasonably confident that they will remain a sideshow.
It appears Parliament's job is just to accept a deal or reject it. It cannot amend.
What a inglorious end to 900 years of tradition and gradual gain of power.0 -
New thread >>>>0
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Doing God's work....SimonStClare said:New thread >>>>
0 -
Christ.CarlottaVance said:
@BritainElects:TheScreamingEagles said:YouGov Westminster VI GB wide (fieldwork this week, I think post Mrs May's speech)
Con 42 (+3) Lab 25 (-3) UKIP 12 (-1) Lib Dems 11 (nc)
Westminster VI:
CON: 42% (+3)
LAB: 25% (-3)
UKIP: 12% (-1)
LDEM: 11% (-)
(YouGov / fieldwork post-Tuesday)
So yes, post-speech0
