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"...330,000 a year, in perpetuity, which is what we're getting at the moment..."SeanT said:Whether the Leave vote was or wasn't about immigration is moot, but also essentially irrelevant.
The fact is the UK - and in particular England, one of the most densely populated countries on earth - clearly cannot sustain net migration of 330,000 a year, in perpetuity, which is what we're getting at the moment, thanks in great part to Free Movement from the EU.
The EU refused to budge on Free Movement, so we had to Leave, and take control of the numbers coming in. The Remainers never had an answer to this question, and still don't, so we're Out.
C'est tout.
LOL
Anyway, I thought you all wanted to be Singapore. Take a look at their population density.0 -
They have already said no embargoed pre-release. When he reads it out. that's it. If there are dissenting opinions, they should be mentioned at that point but nobody else will voice themCarolus_Rex said:No, I don't think so. As far as I know the usual practice with reserved judgments is to circulate a copy under embargo beforehand, rather than read it out in open court. Any discussion is likely to be about ancillary issues such as costs. Mind you I've never been in the UKSC, but that's how the lower courts operate.
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You mean that's when the collapse of Brexit begins in earnest.Alanbrooke said:
were in the phony warScott_P said:But, but, but BMW...
https://twitter.com/bpolitics/status/821784276542910466
all bluster
nothing will happen till post 24 September, then the negotiations start in earnest0 -
Interesting. I wonder if the dissenting opinion will be published as a part/with the actual judgment.Scott_P said:
They have already said no embargoed pre-release. When he reads it out. that's it. If there are dissenting opinions, they should be mentioned at that point but nobody else will voice themCarolus_Rex said:No, I don't think so. As far as I know the usual practice with reserved judgments is to circulate a copy under embargo beforehand, rather than read it out in open court. Any discussion is likely to be about ancillary issues such as costs. Mind you I've never been in the UKSC, but that's how the lower courts operate.
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Scottish Tory Surge KLAXON !!!
@AlisonHarrisMSP: Great result for @ScotTories after both motions by @BrianWhittle and @DAJCameron passed after lively debate. Close vote but clear message!0 -
which is of course unsustainablenot_on_fire said:
Yes, by encouraging migration of younger people from elsewhere. Unfortunately we've just decided to switch that off.Alanbrooke said:
nonsensenot_on_fire said:
It's the rapidly ageing population that's unsustainable.SeanT said:Whether the Leave vote was or wasn't about immigration is moot, but also essentially irrelevant.
The fact is the UK - and in particular England, one of the most densely populated countries on earth - clearly cannot sustain net migration of 330,000 a year, in perpetuity, which is what we're getting at the moment, thanks in great part to Free Movement from the EU.
The EU refused to budge on Free Movement, so we had to Leave, and take control of the numbers coming in. The Remainers never had an answer to this question, and still don't, so we're Out.
C'est tout.
societies adapt
either the planet collapses in a human ponzi scheme
or the population shrinks
if it shrinks we need a plan to adapt
which is when robotics comes in0 -
I don't understand how anyone - on either side of the debate - can be so certain of the outcome.williamglenn said:
You mean that's when the collapse of Brexit begins in earnest.Alanbrooke said:
were in the phony warScott_P said:But, but, but BMW...
https://twitter.com/bpolitics/status/821784276542910466
all bluster
nothing will happen till post 24 September, then the negotiations start in earnest0 -
What May said yesterday was very close to what she said on the steps of No. 10 when she took office. But many clever dicks have been asking "what does she really mean?" It's not complicated, May says what she means, and the sooner people grasp that the better.Richard_Nabavi said:
I've no idea. Not only is her interpretation the only one which makes sense, but she has been completely clear right about it from the start. She said almost nothing new yesterday (apart from some comments on the customs union).OllyT said:If it was the "only" interpretation why has the nation been hanging on a threat waiting to find out what she would do?
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10 points for anyone who can spot what's wrong with this image of the China to London freight train:
http://tinyurl.com/gqobcak0 -
France -rienScott_P said:
http://www.lefigaro.fr/
Germany - nichts
http://www.faz.net/
Just yet more self centred horseshit from the London media dorks0 -
After I'd watched all I'd missed on Youtube - most of them - I thought it was very good but not quite in the Top Ten of all time:Sunil_Prasannan said:
I only tend to see the repeats on the Yesterday Channel (Freeview 19/SKY 537)Morris_Dancer said:On 'Allo 'Allo:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/'Allo_'Allo!#Abandoned_remake
"In early August 2016, the BBC announced that plans to remake the series had been scrapped due to the possibility of viewers complaining about Gestapo officer Herr Flick, despite regularly showing the original episodes on its channels.[17]"
1 Till Death Us Do Part
2 Fawlty Towers
3 Dad's Army
4 Yes Minister
Would any countries still allow these comedies to be made?
1 ... of course not, a grave risk of confusing satire & reality
2 ... much too cruel to people from Barcelona
3 ... too humiliating to army officers
4 ... permission granted, it only lampoons politicians and civil servants who are still considered fair game.0 -
We have to rely on Deutsche Bahn to run it?tlg86 said:10 points for anyone who can spot what's wrong with this image of the China to London freight train:
http://tinyurl.com/gqobcak0 -
no , not at allwilliamglenn said:
You mean that's when the collapse of Brexit begins in earnest.Alanbrooke said:
were in the phony warScott_P said:But, but, but BMW...
https://twitter.com/bpolitics/status/821784276542910466
all bluster
nothing will happen till post 24 September, then the negotiations start in earnest0 -
Or maybe Alan ,we have a future with the logan run effect ;-) the way some on here talk about our elderly,they wouldn't mind it ;-)Alanbrooke said:
which is of course unsustainablenot_on_fire said:
Yes, by encouraging migration of younger people from elsewhere. Unfortunately we've just decided to switch that off.Alanbrooke said:
nonsensenot_on_fire said:
It's the rapidly ageing population that's unsustainable.SeanT said:Whether the Leave vote was or wasn't about immigration is moot, but also essentially irrelevant.
The fact is the UK - and in particular England, one of the most densely populated countries on earth - clearly cannot sustain net migration of 330,000 a year, in perpetuity, which is what we're getting at the moment, thanks in great part to Free Movement from the EU.
The EU refused to budge on Free Movement, so we had to Leave, and take control of the numbers coming in. The Remainers never had an answer to this question, and still don't, so we're Out.
C'est tout.
societies adapt
either the planet collapses in a human ponzi scheme
or the population shrinks
if it shrinks we need a plan to adapt
which is when robotics comes in0 -
can we nominate ? :-)Tykejohnno said:
Or maybe Alan ,we have a future with the logan run effect ;-) the way some on here talk about our elderly,they wouldn't mind it ;-)Alanbrooke said:
which is of course unsustainablenot_on_fire said:
Yes, by encouraging migration of younger people from elsewhere. Unfortunately we've just decided to switch that off.Alanbrooke said:
nonsensenot_on_fire said:
It's the rapidly ageing population that's unsustainable.SeanT said:Whether the Leave vote was or wasn't about immigration is moot, but also essentially irrelevant.
The fact is the UK - and in particular England, one of the most densely populated countries on earth - clearly cannot sustain net migration of 330,000 a year, in perpetuity, which is what we're getting at the moment, thanks in great part to Free Movement from the EU.
The EU refused to budge on Free Movement, so we had to Leave, and take control of the numbers coming in. The Remainers never had an answer to this question, and still don't, so we're Out.
C'est tout.
societies adapt
either the planet collapses in a human ponzi scheme
or the population shrinks
if it shrinks we need a plan to adapt
which is when robotics comes in0 -
https://twitter.com/jamesdoleman/status/821735977324519424Richard_Nabavi said:
Reading those tweets, the argument is about whether they were 'relegated'.rural_voter said:Gambling debts and contracts are now enforceable in English courts
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=4358431
If Rangers were relegated, why shouldn't he win?0 -
Nope, nothing wrong with that. Though they have just laid off a few hundred people due to the coal market collapsing.foxinsoxuk said:
We have to rely on Deutsche Bahn to run it?tlg86 said:10 points for anyone who can spot what's wrong with this image of the China to London freight train:
http://tinyurl.com/gqobcak0 -
Incorrect gauge?tlg86 said:10 points for anyone who can spot what's wrong with this image of the China to London freight train:
http://tinyurl.com/gqobcak0 -
Leave won so it's only their lies people are going to focussing on from now on. We will know if Turkey joins the EU, we will know if the NHS gets an extra £350m a week, we already know that we won't be staying in the SM as Hannan promised etc etc.Alanbrooke said:
They liedOllyT said:surbiton said:
Dan Hannan and many others kept on saying that we will be in the single market after Brexit during the campaign.Richard_Nabavi said:
It's the only interpretation which makes any sense at all. The only other possibility would be an EEA-style deal, which combines most of the disadvantages of remaining in the EU without giving us the main advantage of leaving - and which in any case was unambiguously ruled out by all the various Leave campaigns by their use of immigration as one of their principal arguments. That, indeed, was the only clear thing that came out of the campaigning.OllyT said:She's implementing her interpretation of the referendum result, not quite the same thing.
That's now gone the same way as the £350m a week. With hindsight they were clearly just ruses to win the referendum.
so did remain
whats your point ?
And the Point? The point is that as each lie unravels so does the legitimacy of the result. If we had elected a government based on these sort of lies the electorate could punish them at the next GE as they did with the Lib Dems and tuition fees.
With Brexit nobody can be held accountable for winning by lying so it will just fester. The lesson for the next referendum is that anyone can lie through their teeth because they will not be held accountable.0 -
DB (German State Railways) have the sole UK franchise for rail freight. They will bring it through the Tunnel to its ultimate destination.foxinsoxuk said:
We have to rely on Deutsche Bahn to run it?tlg86 said:10 points for anyone who can spot what's wrong with this image of the China to London freight train:
http://tinyurl.com/gqobcak
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Just getting to the end of All Out War. Recommend it to all. Shippers highlights in the conclusion that the Remain campaign was more like the 2010 failed tory election campaign, with divided responsibilities, than the 2015 win. Osborne is the common factor there - I can't help thinking the master strategist - admittedly, generally OK at Westminster politics - isn't very good at actually winning election campaigns.
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Assume various locos from various countries were used to haul it the 7,000 miles.foxinsoxuk said:
We have to rely on Deutsche Bahn to run it?tlg86 said:10 points for anyone who can spot what's wrong with this image of the China to London freight train:
http://tinyurl.com/gqobcak0 -
Leaving the single market was discussed during the campaign.OllyT said:
Leave won so it's only their lies people are going to focussing on from now on. We will know if Turkey joins the EU, we will know if the NHS gets an extra £350m a week, we already know that we won't be staying in the SM as Hannan promised etc etc.Alanbrooke said:
They liedOllyT said:surbiton said:
Dan Hannan and many others kept on saying that we will be in the single market after Brexit during the campaign.Richard_Nabavi said:
It's the only interpretation which makes any sense at all. The only other possibility would be an EEA-style deal, which combines most of the disadvantages of remaining in the EU without giving us the main advantage of leaving - and which in any case was unambiguously ruled out by all the various Leave campaigns by their use of immigration as one of their principal arguments. That, indeed, was the only clear thing that came out of the campaigning.OllyT said:She's implementing her interpretation of the referendum result, not quite the same thing.
That's now gone the same way as the £350m a week. With hindsight they were clearly just ruses to win the referendum.
so did remain
whats your point ?
And the Point? The point is that as each lie unravels so does the legitimacy of the result. If we had elected a government based on these sort of lies the electorate could punish them at the next GE as they did with the Lib Dems and tuition fees.
With Brexit nobody can be held accountable for winning by lying so it will just fester. The lesson for the next referendum is that anyone can lie through their teeth because they will not be held accountable.0 -
Err, no. Freight operators are not franchises, they are open access operators. Actually there is quite healthy competition among the FOCs (DB Cargo, Freightliner, GB Railfreight, DRS and Colas), though they're going through a tough time following the collapse of the coal market.perdix said:
DB (German State Railways) have the sole UK franchise for rail freight. They will bring it through the Tunnel to its ultimate destination.foxinsoxuk said:
We have to rely on Deutsche Bahn to run it?tlg86 said:10 points for anyone who can spot what's wrong with this image of the China to London freight train:
http://tinyurl.com/gqobcak0 -
If you want. That is what was said.RobD said:surbiton said:
Dan Hannan and many others kept on saying that we will be in the single market after Brexit during the campaign.Richard_Nabavi said:
It's the only interpretation which makes any sense at all. The only other possibility would be an EEA-style deal, which combines most of the disadvantages of remaining in the EU without giving us the main advantage of leaving - and which in any case was unambiguously ruled out by all the various Leave campaigns by their use of immigration as one of their principal arguments. That, indeed, was the only clear thing that came out of the campaigning.OllyT said:She's implementing her interpretation of the referendum result, not quite the same thing.
Are we going to have to get out that Sunday Politics montage again?0 -
What naive crapOllyT said:
Leave won so it's only their lies people are going to focussing on from now on. We will know if Turkey joins the EU, we will know if the NHS gets an extra £350m a week, we already know that we won't be staying in the SM as Hannan promised etc etc.Alanbrooke said:
They liedOllyT said:surbiton said:
Dan Hannan and many others kept on saying that we will be in the single market after Brexit during the campaign.Richard_Nabavi said:
It's the only interpretation which makes any sens immigration as one of their principal arguments. That, indeed, was the only clear thing that came out of the campaigning.OllyT said:She's implementing her interpretation of the referendum result, not quite the same thing.
That's now gone the same way as the £350m a week. With hindsight they were clearly just ruses to win the referendum.
so did remain
whats your point ?
And the Point? The point is that as each lie unravels so does the legitimacy of the result. If we had elected a government based on these sort of lies the electorate could punish them at the next GE as they did with the Lib Dems and tuition fees.
With Brexit nobody can be held accountable for winning by lying so it will just fester. The lesson for the next referendum is that anyone can lie through their teeth because they will not be held accountable.
by the time anything happens events will have taken over and the politicians will be covering their arses. If youre pinning your hopes on the blame game you'll be sorely disappointed.
By then nobody will be interested and half the actors will have left the stage0 -
Just like Iraq and Fatcha.Alanbrooke said:
What naive crapOllyT said:
Leave won so it's only their lies people are going to focussing on from now on. We will know if Turkey joins the EU, we will know if the NHS gets an extra £350m a week, we already know that we won't be staying in the SM as Hannan promised etc etc.Alanbrooke said:
They liedOllyT said:surbiton said:
Dan Hannan and many others kept on saying that we will be in the single market after Brexit during the campaign.Richard_Nabavi said:
It's the only interpretation which makes any sens immigration as one of their principal arguments. That, indeed, was the only clear thing that came out of the campaigning.OllyT said:She's implementing her interpretation of the referendum result, not quite the same thing.
That's now gone the same way as the £350m a week. With hindsight they were clearly just ruses to win the referendum.
so did remain
whats your point ?
And the Point? The point is that as each lie unravels so does the legitimacy of the result. If we had elected a government based on these sort of lies the electorate could punish them at the next GE as they did with the Lib Dems and tuition fees.
With Brexit nobody can be held accountable for winning by lying so it will just fester. The lesson for the next referendum is that anyone can lie through their teeth because they will not be held accountable.
by the time anything happens events will have taken over and the politicians will be covering their arses. If youre pinning your hopes on the blame game you'll be sorely disappointed.
By then nobody will be interested and half the actors will have left the stage
0 -
Most of the elderly here seem faIrly active.Tykejohnno said:
Or maybe Alan ,we have a future with the logan run effect ;-) the way some on here talk about our elderly,they wouldn't mind it ;-)Alanbrooke said:
which is of course unsustainablenot_on_fire said:
Yes, by encouraging migration of younger people from elsewhere. Unfortunately we've just decided to switch that off.Alanbrooke said:
nonsensenot_on_fire said:
It's the rapidly ageing population that's unsustainable.SeanT said:Whether the Leave vote was or wasn't about immigration is moot, but also essentially irrelevant.
The fact is the UK - and in particular England, one of the most densely populated countries on earth - clearly cannot sustain net migration of 330,000 a year, in perpetuity, which is what we're getting at the moment, thanks in great part to Free Movement from the EU.
The EU refused to budge on Free Movement, so we had to Leave, and take control of the numbers coming in. The Remainers never had an answer to this question, and still don't, so we're Out.
C'est tout.
societies adapt
either the planet collapses in a human ponzi scheme
or the population shrinks
if it shrinks we need a plan to adapt
which is when robotics comes in
An ageing population is not such a problem as the dependency ratio. Longer working lives into a healthier old age. It already happens to a degree voluntarily with the abolition of manditory retirement. It may also part explain the rise in part time male unskilled employment that so troubles isam.
I fully intend to be in medical practice until at least 70, tbough will reduce hours and intensity, but both my accountant and my handyman feel the same. They like their jobs.0 -
stop wasting your time these are obscure blogs try againScott_P said:
In France they are talking about their election, Boris does not dominate the news
#londonwankers0 -
England hardly has any people. Have you driven on the motorways ? Mile after mile of nothing. It is not even the most crowded in Europe.Nigelb said:
"...330,000 a year, in perpetuity, which is what we're getting at the moment..."SeanT said:Whether the Leave vote was or wasn't about immigration is moot, but also essentially irrelevant.
The fact is the UK - and in particular England, one of the most densely populated countries on earth - clearly cannot sustain net migration of 330,000 a year, in perpetuity, which is what we're getting at the moment, thanks in great part to Free Movement from the EU.
The EU refused to budge on Free Movement, so we had to Leave, and take control of the numbers coming in. The Remainers never had an answer to this question, and still don't, so we're Out.
C'est tout.
LOL
Anyway, I thought you all wanted to be Singapore. Take a look at their population density.0 -
these are left wing anorak themes to bore us allSouthamObserver said:
Just like Iraq and Fatcha.Alanbrooke said:
What naive crapOllyT said:
Leave won so it's only their lies people are going to focussing on from now on. We will know if Turkey joins the EU, we will know if the NHS gets an extra £350m a week, we already know that we won't be staying in the SM as Hannan promised etc etc.Alanbrooke said:
They liedOllyT said:surbiton said:
Dan Hannan and many others kept on saying that we will be in the single market after Brexit during the campaign.Richard_Nabavi said:
It's the only interpretation which makes any sens immigration as one of their principal arguments. That, indeed, was the only clear thing that came out of the campaigning.OllyT said:She's implementing her interpretation of the referendum result, not quite the same thing.
That's now gone the same way as the £350m a week. With hindsight they were clearly just ruses to win the referendum.
so did remain
whats your point ?
And the Point? The point is that as each lie unravels so does the legitimacy of the result. If we had elected a government based on these sort of lies the electorate could punish them at the next GE as they did with the Lib Dems and tuition fees.
With Brexit nobody can be held accountable for winning by lying so it will just fester. The lesson for the next referendum is that anyone can lie through their teeth because they will not be held accountable.
by the time anything happens events will have taken over and the politicians will be covering their arses. If youre pinning your hopes on the blame game you'll be sorely disappointed.
By then nobody will be interested and half the actors will have left the stage
nobody as yet has arrested Blair and he mints his millions, you talk about it and yet do nothing0 -
I'd think that was a far greater problem for most of the EU than the UK.not_on_fire said:
It's the rapidly ageing population that's unsustainable.SeanT said:Whether the Leave vote was or wasn't about immigration is moot, but also essentially irrelevant.
The fact is the UK - and in particular England, one of the most densely populated countries on earth - clearly cannot sustain net migration of 330,000 a year, in perpetuity, which is what we're getting at the moment, thanks in great part to Free Movement from the EU.
The EU refused to budge on Free Movement, so we had to Leave, and take control of the numbers coming in. The Remainers never had an answer to this question, and still don't, so we're Out.
C'est tout.
Not only are they not having children, the ones they do have all want to move to London.0 -
At that time it might be considered worth waiting for referendum results in the Netherlands, France, and Germany. Little point in negotiating with EU27 if the 27 looks like decreasing and the EU bit looks wobbly too.Alanbrooke said:
were in the phony warScott_P said:But, but, but BMW...
https://twitter.com/bpolitics/status/821784276542910466
all bluster
nothing will happen till post 24 September, then the negotiations start in earnest0 -
Except Tories led both the Leave and Remain campaigns and most of the lies and exagerations on both sides were mainly by Tories, with a little help from Farage. Corbyn might have got flak for being missing in the debate, but I don't recall any lies that can be pinned on him.OllyT said:
Leave won so it's only their lies people are going to focussing on from now on. We will know if Turkey joins the EU, we will know if the NHS gets an extra £350m a week, we already know that we won't be staying in the SM as Hannan promised etc etc.Alanbrooke said:
They liedOllyT said:surbiton said:
Dan Hannan and many others kept on saying that we will be in the single market after Brexit during the campaign.Richard_Nabavi said:
It's the only interpretation which makes any sense at all. The only other possibility would be an EEA-style deal, which combines most of the disadvantages of remaining in the EU without giving us the main advantage of leaving - and which in any case was unambiguously ruled out by all the various Leave campaigns by their use of immigration as one of their principal arguments. That, indeed, was the only clear thing that came out of the campaigning.OllyT said:She's implementing her interpretation of the referendum result, not quite the same thing.
That's now gone the same way as the £350m a week. With hindsight they were clearly just ruses to win the referendum.
so did remain
whats your point ?
And the Point? The point is that as each lie unravels so does the legitimacy of the result. If we had elected a government based on these sort of lies the electorate could punish them at the next GE as they did with the Lib Dems and tuition fees.
With Brexit nobody can be held accountable for winning by lying so it will just fester. The lesson for the next referendum is that anyone can lie through their teeth because they will not be held accountable.
If the GBP decide to hold a Party accountable it will be the Tories who will be in the firing line.0 -
Never mind Merkel, what do the shareholders think?Alanbrooke said:
were in the phony warScott_P said:But, but, but BMW...
https://twitter.com/bpolitics/status/821784276542910466
all bluster
nothing will happen till post 24 September, then the negotiations start in earnest
0 -
You may have a point if Brexit proves to be a tearaway success but if it goes tits up I can assure you that our fickle electorate will most certainly be hunting for the guilty parties. They are not renowned for accepting their own culpability. We will not hear the end of the £350m a week for many a long year, it will end political mythology along with Chamberlain's "piece of paper".Alanbrooke said:
What naive crapOllyT said:
Leave won so it's only their lies people are going to focussing on from now on. We will know if Turkey joins the EU, we will know if the NHS gets an extra £350m a week, we already know that we won't be staying in the SM as Hannan promised etc etc.Alanbrooke said:
They liedOllyT said:surbiton said:
Dan Hannan and many others kept on saying that we will be in the single market after Brexit during the campaign.Richard_Nabavi said:
It's the only interpretation which makes any sens immigration as one of their principal arguments. That, indeed, was the only clear thing that came out of the campaigning.OllyT said:She's implementing her interpretation of the referendum result, not quite the same thing.
That's now gone the same way as the £350m a week. With hindsight they were clearly just ruses to win the referendum.
so did remain
whats your point ?
And the Point? The point is that as each lie unravels so does the legitimacy of the result. If we had elected a government based on these sort of lies the electorate could punish them at the next GE as they did with the Lib Dems and tuition fees.
With Brexit nobody can be held accountable for winning by lying so it will just fester. The lesson for the next referendum is that anyone can lie through their teeth because they will not be held accountable.
by the time anything happens events will have taken over and the politicians will be covering their arses. If youre pinning your hopes on the blame game you'll be sorely disappointed.
By then nobody will be interested and half the actors will have left the stage0 -
German election has been proposed as 24 SeptemberDromedary said:
At that time it might be considered worth waiting for referendum results in the Netherlands, France, and Germany. Little point in negotiating with EU27 if the 27 looks like decreasing and the EU bit looks wobbly too.Alanbrooke said:
were in the phony warScott_P said:But, but, but BMW...
https://twitter.com/bpolitics/status/821784276542910466
all bluster
nothing will happen till post 24 September, then the negotiations start in earnest
then we see what shape Merkel is in0 -
No. The locomotive, a Class 92 (the class of locomotive manufactured in the UK), is an electric locomotive. There is no OLE or third rail so the train is actually being pushed through the banner by a diesel Class 66 at the back of the train.RobD said:
Incorrect gauge?tlg86 said:10 points for anyone who can spot what's wrong with this image of the China to London freight train:
http://tinyurl.com/gqobcak0 -
You can be old and healthy and perfectly compos mentis. I can't find anything more recent than July 2016, but at that time there were 1.14m over-65s in the workforce.foxinsoxuk said:
Most of the elderly here seem faIrly active.Tykejohnno said:
Or maybe Alan ,we have a future with the logan run effect ;-) the way some on here talk about our elderly,they wouldn't mind it ;-)Alanbrooke said:
which is of course unsustainablenot_on_fire said:
Yes, by encouraging migration of younger people from elsewhere. Unfortunately we've just decided to switch that off.Alanbrooke said:
nonsensenot_on_fire said:
It's the rapidly ageing population that's unsustainable.SeanT said:Whether the Leave vote was or wasn't about immigration is moot, but also essentially irrelevant.
The fact is the UK - and in particular England, one of the most densely populated countries on earth - clearly cannot sustain net migration of 330,000 a year, in perpetuity, which is what we're getting at the moment, thanks in great part to Free Movement from the EU.
The EU refused to budge on Free Movement, so we had to Leave, and take control of the numbers coming in. The Remainers never had an answer to this question, and still don't, so we're Out.
C'est tout.
societies adapt
either the planet collapses in a human ponzi scheme
or the population shrinks
if it shrinks we need a plan to adapt
which is when robotics comes in
An ageing population is not such a problem as the dependency ratio. Longer working lives into a healthier old age. It already happens to a degree voluntarily with the abolition of manditory retirement. It may also part explain the rise in part time male unskilled employment that so troubles isam.
I fully intend to be in medical practice until at least 70, tbough will reduce hours and intensity, but both my accountant and my handyman feel the same. They like their jobs.
I often say I'm retired, but more realistically, I'm just "resting". I will undoubtedly want to do at least _some_ work in my dotage. As Southam points out, many pensioners have done very well over the last decade, and there are plenty of higher tax rate pensioners to boot (me included).
'Rapidly aging population' is true, but we need to be a little more nuanced about how we interpret the data.0 -
May and Johnson among them.Alanbrooke said:By then nobody will be interested and half the actors will have left the stage
0 -
The cities are though.surbiton said:
England hardly has any people. Have you driven on the motorways ? Mile after mile of nothing. It is not even the most crowded in Europe.Nigelb said:
"...330,000 a year, in perpetuity, which is what we're getting at the moment..."SeanT said:Whether the Leave vote was or wasn't about immigration is moot, but also essentially irrelevant.
The fact is the UK - and in particular England, one of the most densely populated countries on earth - clearly cannot sustain net migration of 330,000 a year, in perpetuity, which is what we're getting at the moment, thanks in great part to Free Movement from the EU.
The EU refused to budge on Free Movement, so we had to Leave, and take control of the numbers coming in. The Remainers never had an answer to this question, and still don't, so we're Out.
C'est tout.
LOL
Anyway, I thought you all wanted to be Singapore. Take a look at their population density.0 -
So Brexiters are hoping for an AfD win. What has the world come to ?Alanbrooke said:
German election has been proposed as 24 SeptemberDromedary said:
At that time it might be considered worth waiting for referendum results in the Netherlands, France, and Germany. Little point in negotiating with EU27 if the 27 looks like decreasing and the EU bit looks wobbly too.Alanbrooke said:
were in the phony warScott_P said:But, but, but BMW...
https://twitter.com/bpolitics/status/821784276542910466
all bluster
nothing will happen till post 24 September, then the negotiations start in earnest
then we see what shape Merkel is in0 -
Lefties can't arrest Blair, only the police can. And, of course, it is not only lefties that mention him ad nauseam. The electorate does not forget. It will trawl way back into history to blame others for decisions it has taken.Alanbrooke said:
these are left wing anorak themes to bore us allSouthamObserver said:
Just like Iraq and Fatcha.Alanbrooke said:
What naive crapOllyT said:
Leave won so it's only their lies people are going to focussing on from now on. We will know if Turkey joins the EU, we will know if the NHS gets an extra £350m a week, we already know that we won't be staying in the SM as Hannan promised etc etc.Alanbrooke said:
They liedOllyT said:surbiton said:
Dan Hannan and many others kept on saying that we will be in the single market after Brexit during the campaign.Richard_Nabavi said:
It's the only interpretation which makes any sens immigration as one of their principal arguments. That, indeed, was the only clear thing that came out of the campaigning.OllyT said:She's implementing her interpretation of the referendum result, not quite the same thing.
That's now gone the same way as the £350m a week. With hindsight they were clearly just ruses to win the referendum.
so did remain
whats your point ?
And the Point? The point is that as each lie unravels so does the legitimacy of the result. If we had elected a government based on these sort of lies the electorate could punish them at the next GE as they did with the Lib Dems and tuition fees.
With Brexit nobody can be held accountable for winning by lying so it will just fester. The lesson for the next referendum is that anyone can lie through their teeth because they will not be held accountable.
by the time anything happens events will have taken over and the politicians will be covering their arses. If youre pinning your hopes on the blame game you'll be sorely disappointed.
By then nobody will be interested and half the actors will have left the stage
nobody as yet has arrested Blair and he mints his millions, you talk about it and yet do nothing
0 -
OllyT - I get the feeling that Germany will absolutely refuse to increase defence spending as Clinton, Bush, Obama and Trump have requested many times. Merkel doesn't want Nato either. Look at the speech from the German foreign minister demanding the USA should withdraw troops from Eastern Europe because they might antagonise Putin. Germany isn't going to spend a penny more even to maintain the weapons they have. Der Spiegel has an article on European attempts to find a new nuclear shield if America pulls back - the obviously think it is a possibility. With a great sense of timing they have approached us as the next best. Of course this is expected to be provided at zero cost.0
-
A Party Political from Labour on BBC 1 now.0
-
I agree, Despite being a Remainer of sorts May has pretty much owned Brexit for the Tories now .BudG said:
Except Tories led both the Leave and Remain campaigns and most of the lies and exagerations on both sides were mainly by Tories, with a little help from Farage. Corbyn might have got flak for being missing in the debate, but I don't recall any lies that can be pinned on him.OllyT said:
Leave won so it's only their lies people are going to focussing on from now on. We will know if Turkey joins the EU, we will know if the NHS gets an extra £350m a week, we already know that we won't be staying in the SM as Hannan promised etc etc.Alanbrooke said:
They liedOllyT said:surbiton said:
Dan Hannan and many others kept on saying that we will be in the single market after Brexit during the campaign.Richard_Nabavi said:
It's the only interpretation which makes any sense at all. The only other possibility would be an EEA-style deal, which combines most of the disadvantages of remaining in the EU without giving us the main advantage of leaving - and which in any case was unambiguously ruled out by all the various Leave campaigns by their use of immigration as one of their principal arguments. That, indeed, was the only clear thing that came out of the campaigning.OllyT said:She's implementing her interpretation of the referendum result, not quite the same thing.
That's now gone the same way as the £350m a week. With hindsight they were clearly just ruses to win the referendum.
so did remain
whats your point ?
And the Point? The point is that as each lie unravels so does the legitimacy of the result. If we had elected a government based on these sort of lies the electorate could punish them at the next GE as they did with the Lib Dems and tuition fees.
With Brexit nobody can be held accountable for winning by lying so it will just fester. The lesson for the next referendum is that anyone can lie through their teeth because they will not be held accountable.
If the GBP decide to hold a Party accountable it will be the Tories who will be in the firing line.0 -
Shareholders are used to dealing with political risk. It's just that usually it's not apparently sane countries like the UK that are at the root of the problems.chestnut said:
Never mind Merkel, what do the shareholders think?Alanbrooke said:
were in the phony warScott_P said:But, but, but BMW...
https://twitter.com/bpolitics/status/821784276542910466
all bluster
nothing will happen till post 24 September, then the negotiations start in earnest0 -
As things stand, it's looking like another grand coalition but with her authority (and majority in the Bundestag) substantially reduced. It's hard to see any other combination of parties which will be able to put together a majority.Alanbrooke said:German election has been proposed as 24 September
then we see what shape Merkel is in0 -
The £350m battle bus should be shoved down the throats of Johnson, Gove and Stewart!OllyT said:
You may have a point if Brexit proves to be a tearaway success but if it goes tits up I can assure you that our fickle electorate will most certainly be hunting for the guilty parties. They are not renowned for accepting their own culpability. We will not hear the end of the £350m a week for many a long year, it will end political mythology along with Chamberlain's "piece of paper".Alanbrooke said:
What naive crapOllyT said:
Leave won so it's only their lies people are going to focussing on from now on. We will know if Turkey joins the EU, we will know if the NHS gets an extra £350m a week, we already know that we won't be staying in the SM as Hannan promised etc etc.Alanbrooke said:
They liedOllyT said:surbiton said:
Dan Hannan and many others kept on saying that we will be in the single market after Brexit during the campaign.Richard_Nabavi said:
It's the only interpretation which makes any sens immigration as one of their principal arguments. That, indeed, was the only clear thing that came out of the campaigning.OllyT said:She's implementing her interpretation of the referendum result, not quite the same thing.
That's now gone the same way as the £350m a week. With hindsight they were clearly just ruses to win the referendum.
so did remain
whats your point ?
And the Point? The point is that as each lie unravels so does the legitimacy of the result. If we had elected a government based on these sort of lies the electorate could punish them at the next GE as they did with the Lib Dems and tuition fees.
With Brexit nobody can be held accountable for winning by lying so it will just fester. The lesson for the next referendum is that anyone can lie through their teeth because they will not be held accountable.
by the time anything happens events will have taken over and the politicians will be covering their arses. If youre pinning your hopes on the blame game you'll be sorely disappointed.
By then nobody will be interested and half the actors will have left the stage
Whatever happened to the last one. She is awfully quiet these days.0 -
That seems a bit of a leap in both senses. AfD is going backwards, so unlikely to do well. I think Merkel's perfectly secure, but I doubt she'll have much bandwidth until after the election.surbiton said:
So Brexiters are hoping for an AfD win. What has the world come to ?Alanbrooke said:
German election has been proposed as 24 SeptemberDromedary said:
At that time it might be considered worth waiting for referendum results in the Netherlands, France, and Germany. Little point in negotiating with EU27 if the 27 looks like decreasing and the EU bit looks wobbly too.Alanbrooke said:
were in the phony warScott_P said:But, but, but BMW...
https://twitter.com/bpolitics/status/821784276542910466
all bluster
nothing will happen till post 24 September, then the negotiations start in earnest
then we see what shape Merkel is in0 -
Who will you blame if Brexit craps outOllyT said:
You may have a point if Brexit proves to be a tearaway success but if it goes tits up I can assure you that our fickle electorate will most certainly be hunting for the guilty parties. They are not renowned for accepting their own culpability. We will not hear the end of the £350m a week for many a long year, it will end political mythology along with Chamberlain's "piece of paper".Alanbrooke said:
What naive crapOllyT said:
Leave won so it's only their lies people are going to focussing on from now on. We will know if Turkey joins the EU, we will know if the NHS gets an extra £350m a week, we already know that we won't be staying in the SM as Hannan promised etc etc.Alanbrooke said:
They liedOllyT said:surbiton said:
Dan Hannan and many others kept on saying that we will be in the single market after Brexit during the campaign.Richard_Nabavi said:
It's the only interpretation which makes any sens immigration as one of their principal arguments. That, indeed, was the only clear thing that came out of the campaigning.OllyT said:She's implementing her interpretation of the referendum result, not quite the same thing.
That's now gone the same way as the £350m a week. With hindsight they were clearly just ruses to win the referendum.
so did remain
whats your point ?
And the Point? The point is that as each lie unravels so does the legitimacy of the result. If we had elected a government based on these sort of lies the electorate could punish them at the next GE as they did with the Lib Dems and tuition fees.
With Brexit nobody can be held accountable for winning by lying so it will just fester. The lesson for the next referendum is that anyone can lie through their teeth because they will not be held accountable.
by the time anything happens events will have taken over and the politicians will be covering their arses. If youre pinning your hopes on the blame game you'll be sorely disappointed.
By then nobody will be interested and half the actors will have left the stage
Dave for calling it ?
George for fking it up ?
Obama for being a shit ?
Corbyn for dallying ?
If your hope is Liam Fox or Boris then really you should lie down and have a rest neither accounts for much in the greater scheme of thintgs0 -
Final all out War comment - it is worth buying for the conclusion alone. We should maybe donate a copy to those Remainers who need to regain a bit of perspective.0
-
-
And Merkel, Hollande, Verhofstadt and Juncker too if all goes wellwilliamglenn said:
May and Johnson among them.Alanbrooke said:By then nobody will be interested and half the actors will have left the stage
0 -
Are they spending their 5 mins concentrating on the crucial issue of the day....ozil's wage demands for his new contract?tlg86 said:A Party Political from Labour on BBC 1 now.
0 -
Pure conjecture by the look of your postsurbiton said:
So Brexiters are hoping for an AfD win. What has the world come to ?Alanbrooke said:
German election has been proposed as 24 SeptemberDromedary said:
At that time it might be considered worth waiting for referendum results in the Netherlands, France, and Germany. Little point in negotiating with EU27 if the 27 looks like decreasing and the EU bit looks wobbly too.Alanbrooke said:
were in the phony warScott_P said:But, but, but BMW...
https://twitter.com/bpolitics/status/821784276542910466
all bluster
nothing will happen till post 24 September, then the negotiations start in earnest
then we see what shape Merkel is in0 -
-
I agreeRichard_Nabavi said:
As things stand, it's looking like another grand coalition but with her authority (and majority in the Bundestag) substantially reduced. It's hard to see any other combination of parties which will be able to put together a majority.Alanbrooke said:German election has been proposed as 24 September
then we see what shape Merkel is in
I think the harder thing is the numbers of a potential coalition
the SDP are suffering from junior partner syndrom and may not be so easily enticed to give it a second go. If so the numbers after that are extremely difficult.0 -
England is more densely populated than any of the EU27 except Malta. If France had the same population density as England does now, it would be home to about 270 million people. The UK as a whole is a little lower down the table, but that doesn't help given that (a) Scotland and Wales consist mostly of upland terrain, remote islands and bog - completely unsuitable for large-scale urban development - and (b) most immigrants stubbornly refuse to be tempted by the attractions of those lands in any case.surbiton said:
England hardly has any people. Have you driven on the motorways ? Mile after mile of nothing. It is not even the most crowded in Europe.Nigelb said:
"...330,000 a year, in perpetuity, which is what we're getting at the moment..."SeanT said:Whether the Leave vote was or wasn't about immigration is moot, but also essentially irrelevant.
The fact is the UK - and in particular England, one of the most densely populated countries on earth - clearly cannot sustain net migration of 330,000 a year, in perpetuity, which is what we're getting at the moment, thanks in great part to Free Movement from the EU.
The EU refused to budge on Free Movement, so we had to Leave, and take control of the numbers coming in. The Remainers never had an answer to this question, and still don't, so we're Out.
C'est tout.
LOL
Anyway, I thought you all wanted to be Singapore. Take a look at their population density.
That "nothing" to which you refer is the countryside, which is of far more utility to us than another million people (which is what the country's growing by every two years at the moment.)
More people = more houses, roads and all of the other infrastructure needed to accommodate them, which we can't build fast enough to keep up with demand. It also means more land concreted and less left to feed the ever growing number of mouths, which means ever greater reliance on expensive imported food.
Recent polling evidence shows very large majorities in favour of at least some reduction in immigration, even in London and Scotland. The Prime Minister gets this. The great elderly care Ponzi scheme, in which we import young people to compensate for an ageing population, and presumably then import even more young people when the first round of imports themselves grow old, is to be stopped. Good.0 -
Do we dare forget George osbornes punishment budget my dear remain friends.0
-
yeah, but still hes a memeber of the party you rejoinedSouthamObserver said:
Lefties can't arrest Blair, only the police can. And, of course, it is not only lefties that mention him ad nauseam. The electorate does not forget. It will trawl way back into history to blame others for decisions it has taken.Alanbrooke said:
these are left wing anorak themes to bore us allSouthamObserver said:
Just like Iraq and Fatcha.Alanbrooke said:
What naive crapOllyT said:
Leave won so it's only their lies people are going to focussing on from now on. We will know if Turkey joins the EU, we will know if the NHS gets an extra £350m a week, we already know that we won't be staying in the SM as Hannan promised etc etc.Alanbrooke said:
They liedOllyT said:surbiton said:
Dan Hannan and many others kept on saying that we will be in the single market after Brexit during the campaign.Richard_Nabavi said:
It's the only interpretation which makes any sens immigration as one of their principal arguments. That, indeed, was the only clear thing that came out of the campaigning.OllyT said:She's implementing her interpretation of the referendum result, not quite the same thing.
That's now gone the same way as the £350m a week. With hindsight they were clearly just ruses to win the referendum.
so did remain
whats your point ?
And the Point? The point is that as each lie unravels so does the legitimacy of the result. If we had elected a government based on these sort of lies the electorate could punish them at the next GE as they did with the Lib Dems and tuition fees.
With Brexit nobody can be held accountable for winning by lying so it will just fester. The lesson for the next referendum is that anyone can lie through their teeth because they will not be held accountable.
by the time anything happens events will have taken over and the politicians will be covering their arses. If youre pinning your hopes on the blame game you'll be sorely disappointed.
By then nobody will be interested and half the actors will have left the stage
nobody as yet has arrested Blair and he mints his millions, you talk about it and yet do nothing
non ?0 -
Yeah, it could be like Ireland 2016: hard to form any government at all (don't you just love PR!).Alanbrooke said:I agree
I think the harder thing is the numbers of a potential coalition
the SDP are suffering from junior partner syndrom and may not be so easily enticed to give it a second go. If so the numbers after that are extremely difficult.
In the end, though, I expect the strong German tradition of consensus will mean the SDP does play ball.0 -
George HW Bush and wife in hospital
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-386671180 -
A magnificent post in the full traditions of this site on so many levels. Well done, Sir.tlg86 said:
No. The locomotive, a Class 92 (the class of locomotive manufactured in the UK), is an electric locomotive. There is no OLE or third rail so the train is actually being pushed through the banner by a diesel Class 66 at the back of the train.RobD said:
Incorrect gauge?tlg86 said:10 points for anyone who can spot what's wrong with this image of the China to London freight train:
http://tinyurl.com/gqobcak0 -
Both Belgium and tbe Netherlands have population densities significantly higher than England, and indeed so do other regions of Europe such as the Ruhr or Po valley.Black_Rook said:
England is more densely populated than any of the EU27 except Malta. If France had the same population density as England does now, it would be home to about 270 million people. The UK as a whole is a little lower down the table, but that doesn't help given that (a) Scotland and Wales consist mostly of upland terrain, remote islands and bog - completely unsuitable for large-scale urban development - and (b) most immigrants stubbornly refuse to be tempted by the attractions of those lands in any case.surbiton said:
England hardly has any people. Have you driven on the motorways ? Mile after mile of nothing. It is not even the most crowded in Europe.Nigelb said:
"...330,000 a year, in perpetuity, which is what we're getting at the moment..."SeanT said:Whether the Leave vote was or wasn't about immigration is moot, but also essentially irrelevant.
The fact is the UK - and in particular England, one of the most densely populated countries on earth - clearly cannot sustain net migration of 330,000 a year, in perpetuity, which is what we're getting at the moment, thanks in great part to Free Movement from the EU.
The EU refused to budge on Free Movement, so we had to Leave, and take control of the numbers coming in. The Remainers never had an answer to this question, and still don't, so we're Out.
C'est tout.
LOL
Anyway, I thought you all wanted to be Singapore. Take a look at their population density.
That "nothing" to which you refer is the countryside, which is of far more utility to us than another million people (which is what the country's growing by every two years at the moment.)
More people = more houses, roads and all of the other infrastructure needed to accommodate them, which we can't build fast enough to keep up with demand. It also means more land concreted and less left to feed the ever growing number of mouths, which means ever greater reliance on expensive imported food.
Recent polling evidence shows very large majorities in favour of at least some reduction in immigration, even in London and Scotland. The Prime Minister gets this. The great elderly care Ponzi scheme, in which we import young people to compensate for an ageing population, and presumably then import even more young people when the first round of imports themselves grow old, is to be stopped. Good.
It was notable that within England there is an inverse relationship between population density and voting Remain. Tbe crowded parts voted Remain and the least crowded for Leave.0 -
-
No idea. My only thoughts on Blair are what a waste of an opportunity. I don't hate him, I don't want him arrested. I agreed with him much more than I disagreed with him. I just wish he had not been so cautious. He really did have a chance to change things and he blew it.Alanbrooke said:
yeah, but still hes a memeber of the party you rejoinedSouthamObserver said:
Lefties can't arrest Blair, only the police can. And, of course, it is not only lefties that mention him ad nauseam. The electorate does not forget. It will trawl way back into history to blame others for decisions it has taken.Alanbrooke said:
these are left wing anorak themes to bore us allSouthamObserver said:
Just like Iraq and Fatcha.Alanbrooke said:
What naive crapOllyT said:
Leave won so it's only their lies people are going to focussing on from now on. We will know if Turkey joins the EU, we will know if the NHS gets an extra £350m a week, we already know that we won't be staying in the SM as Hannan promised etc etc.Alanbrooke said:
They liedOllyT said:surbiton said:
Dan Hannan and many others kept on saying that we will be in the single market after Brexit during the campaign.Richard_Nabavi said:
It's the only interpretation which makes any sens immigration as one of their principal arguments. That, indeed, was the only clear thing that came out of the campaigning.OllyT said:She's implementing her interpretation of the referendum result, not quite the same thing.
That's now gone the same way as the £350m a week. With hindsight they were clearly just ruses to win the referendum.
so did remain
whats your point ?
And the Point? The point is that as each lie unravels so does the legitimacy of the result. If we had elected a government based on these sort of lies the electorate could punish them at the next GE as they did with the Lib Dems and tuition fees.
With Brexit nobody can be held accountable for winning by lying so it will just fester. The lesson for the next referendum is that anyone can lie through their teeth because they will not be held accountable.
by the time anything happens events will have taken over and the politicians will be covering their arses. If youre pinning your hopes on the blame game you'll be sorely disappointed.
By then nobody will be interested and half the actors will have left the stage
nobody as yet has arrested Blair and he mints his millions, you talk about it and yet do nothing
non ?
0 -
Thank you. It should have said "last class of locomotive built in the UK". Quite sad really given that was over two decades ago.HurstLlama said:
A magnificent post in the full traditions of this site on so many levels. Well done, Sir.tlg86 said:
No. The locomotive, a Class 92 (the class of locomotive manufactured in the UK), is an electric locomotive. There is no OLE or third rail so the train is actually being pushed through the banner by a diesel Class 66 at the back of the train.RobD said:
Incorrect gauge?tlg86 said:10 points for anyone who can spot what's wrong with this image of the China to London freight train:
http://tinyurl.com/gqobcak0 -
I'm not convincedRichard_Nabavi said:
Yeah, it could be like Ireland 2016: hard to form any government at all (don't you just love PR!).Alanbrooke said:I agree
I think the harder thing is the numbers of a potential coalition
the SDP are suffering from junior partner syndrom and may not be so easily enticed to give it a second go. If so the numbers after that are extremely difficult.
In the end, though, I expect the strong German tradition of consensus will mean the SDP does play ball.
there may be a price if that is the case. Like Labour the SDP has been leaking support to the deplorables. Merkel's position is the key I can see several threats to her
1; lame duck chancellor where she sits on a divided coalition and cant do much
2. dead chancellor where her party or coalition partners seek a new chancellor as part of a coalition deal
3. dead candidate where there is a small chance she could lose her seat
like you I expect her to come through but she will certainly be in a weaker position0 -
Not in bradford they didn't,even leeds was close.foxinsoxuk said:
Both Belgium and tbe Netherlands have population densities significantly higher than England, and indeed so do other regions of Europe such as the Ruhr or Po valley.Black_Rook said:
England is more densely populated than any of the EU27 except Malta. If France had the same population density as England does now, it would be home to about 270 million people. The UK as a whole is a little lower down the table, but that doesn't help given that (a) Scotland and Wales consist mostly of upland terrain, remote islands and bog - completely unsuitable for large-scale urban development - and (b) most immigrants stubbornly refuse to be tempted by the attractions of those lands in any case.surbiton said:
England hardly has any people. Have you driven on the motorways ? Mile after mile of nothing. It is not even the most crowded in Europe.Nigelb said:
"...330,000 a year, in perpetuity, which is what we're getting at the moment..."SeanT said:Whether the Leave vote was or wasn't about immigration is moot, but also essentially irrelevant.
The fact is the UK - and in particular England, one of the most densely populated countries on earth - clearly cannot sustain net migration of 330,000 a year, in perpetuity, which is what we're getting at the moment, thanks in great part to Free Movement from the EU.
The EU refused to budge on Free Movement, so we had to Leave, and take control of the numbers coming in. The Remainers never had an answer to this question, and still don't, so we're Out.
C'est tout.
LOL
Anyway, I thought you all wanted to be Singapore. Take a look at their population density.
That "nothing" to which you refer is the countryside, which is of far more utility to us than another million people (which is what the country's growing by every two years at the moment.)
More people = more houses, roads and all of the other infrastructure needed to accommodate them, which we can't build fast enough to keep up with demand. It also means more land concreted and less left to feed the ever growing number of mouths, which means ever greater reliance on expensive imported food.
Recent polling evidence shows very large majorities in favour of at least some reduction in immigration, even in London and Scotland. The Prime Minister gets this. The great elderly care Ponzi scheme, in which we import young people to compensate for an ageing population, and presumably then import even more young people when the first round of imports themselves grow old, is to be stopped. Good.
It was notable that within England there is an inverse relationship between population density and voting Remain. Tbe crowded parts voted Remain and the least crowded for Leave.0 -
Llama manHurstLlama said:
A magnificent post in the full traditions of this site on so many levels. Well done, Sir.tlg86 said:
No. The locomotive, a Class 92 (the class of locomotive manufactured in the UK), is an electric locomotive. There is no OLE or third rail so the train is actually being pushed through the banner by a diesel Class 66 at the back of the train.RobD said:
Incorrect gauge?tlg86 said:10 points for anyone who can spot what's wrong with this image of the China to London freight train:
http://tinyurl.com/gqobcak
happy new year0 -
same for the UK by that measureScott_P said:0 -
Birmingham is, of course, all rolling fields and meadows. Still, mustn't quibble.Tykejohnno said:
Not in bradford they didn't,even leeds was close.foxinsoxuk said:
Both Belgium and tbe Netherlands have population densities significantly higher than England, and indeed so do other regions of Europe such as the Ruhr or Po valley.Black_Rook said:
England is more densely populated than any of the EU27 except Malta. If France had the same population density as England does now, it would be home to about 270 million people. The UK as a whole is a little lower down the table, but that doesn't help given that (a) Scotland and Wales consist mostly of upland terrain, remote islands and bog - completely unsuitable for large-scale urban development - and (b) most immigrants stubbornly refuse to be tempted by the attractions of those lands in any case.surbiton said:
England hardly has any people. Have you driven on the motorways ? Mile after mile of nothing. It is not even the most crowded in Europe.Nigelb said:
"...330,000 a year, in perpetuity, which is what we're getting at the moment..."SeanT said:Whether the Leave vote was or wasn't about immigration is moot, but also essentially irrelevant.
The fact is the UK - and in particular England, one of the most densely populated countries on earth - clearly cannot sustain net migration of 330,000 a year, in perpetuity, which is what we're getting at the moment, thanks in great part to Free Movement from the EU.
The EU refused to budge on Free Movement, so we had to Leave, and take control of the numbers coming in. The Remainers never had an answer to this question, and still don't, so we're Out.
C'est tout.
LOL
Anyway, I thought you all wanted to be Singapore. Take a look at their population density.
That "nothing" to which you refer is the countryside, which is of far more utility to us than another million people (which is what the country's growing by every two years at the moment.)
Recent polling evidence shows very large majorities in favour of at least some reduction in immigration, even in London and Scotland. The Prime Minister gets this. The great elderly care Ponzi scheme, in which we import young people to compensate for an ageing population, and presumably then import even more young people when the first round of imports themselves grow old, is to be stopped. Good.
It was notable that within England there is an inverse relationship between population density and voting Remain. Tbe crowded parts voted Remain and the least crowded for Leave.0 -
In 1945, the Soviet Union took over parts of seven current EU member states:OllyT said:
Sorry, it's embarrassing, full stop. Coming from our Foreign Secretary in times like these it's despicable. The war's over - it ended 75 years ago, move on. It's not clever, it's not funny but the Daily Mil will love it. God help us if he gets anywhere near the negotiations.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Why do the left have no sense of humour. I listened to Boris live and it was said in a good hearted way.logical_song said:
It's 70 years or so from WW2, most people have moved on.Ishmael_Z said:You can't expect Boris's analogy to resonate with the French; only combatants get sent to POW camps...
I would say that the storm of protest is coming from the same elite who lost Brexit and caused the election of Trump
Romania (Chernivtsi and the southern part of Odessa region)
Poland (western Ukraine and western Belarus)
Hungary/Slovakia (Transcarpathia)
Germany (Kaliningrad)
Latvia (Pitalova region)
Estonia (Pechory region and Ivangorod)
Finland (Karelia region, Salla and Pechenga)0 -
you should just join the LDs, youd be happierSouthamObserver said:
No idea. My only thoughts on Blair are what a waste of an opportunity. I don't hate him, I don't want him arrested. I agreed with him much more than I disagreed with him. I just wish he had not been so cautious. He really did have a chance to change things and he blew it.Alanbrooke said:
yeah, but still hes a memeber of the party you rejoinedSouthamObserver said:
Lefties can't arrest Blair, only the police can. And, of course, it is not only lefties that mention him ad nauseam. The electorate does not forget. It will trawl way back into history to blame others for decisions it has taken.Alanbrooke said:
these are left wing anorak themes to bore us allSouthamObserver said:
Just like Iraq and Fatcha.Alanbrooke said:
What naive crapOllyT said:
Leave won so it's only their lies people are going to focussing on from now on. We will know if Turkey joins the EU, we will know if the NHS gets an extra £350m a week, we already know that we won't be staying in the SM as Hannan promised etc etc.Alanbrooke said:
They liedOllyT said:surbiton said:
Dan Hannan and many others kept on saying that we will be in the single market after Brexit during the campaign.Richard_Nabavi said:
It's the only interpretation which makes any sens immigration as one of their principal arguments. That, indeed, was the only clear thing that came out of the campaigning.OllyT said:She's implementing her interpretation of the referendum result, not quite the same thing.
That's now gone the same way as the £350m a week. With hindsight they were clearly just ruses to win the referendum.
so did remain
whats your point ?
With Brexit nobody can be held accountable for winning by lying so it will just fester. The lesson for the next referendum is that anyone can lie through their teeth because they will not be held accountable.
by the time anything happens events will have taken over and the politicians will be covering their arses. If youre pinning your hopes on the blame game you'll be sorely disappointed.
By then nobody will be interested and half the actors will have left the stage
nobody as yet has arrested Blair and he mints his millions, you talk about it and yet do nothing
non ?0 -
https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/821798085860855808
The greatest mistake in the whole of British history was to honour our commitment to Belgium in 1914. Discuss.0 -
Sure, and in the SE some rural areas voted Remain, but there is a definite inverse trend between Euroscepticism and population density overall.Tykejohnno said:
Not in bradford they didn't,even leeds was close.foxinsoxuk said:
Both Belgium and tbe Netherlands have population densities significantly higher than England, and indeed so do other regions of Europe such as the Ruhr or Po valley.Black_Rook said:
England is more densely populated than any of the EU27 except Malta. If France had the same population density as England does now, it would be home to about 270 million people. The UK as a whole is a little lower down the table, but that doesn't help given that (a) Scotland and Wales consist mostly of upland terrain, remote islands and bog - completely unsuitable for large-scale urban development - and (b) most immigrants stubbornly refuse to be tempted by the attractions of those lands in any case.surbiton said:
England hardly has any people. Have you driven on the motorways ? Mile after mile of nothing. It is not even the most crowded in Europe.Nigelb said:
"...330,000 a year, in perpetuity, which is what we're getting at the moment..."SeanT said:Whether the Leave vote was or wasn't about immigration is moot, but also essentially irrelevant.
The fact is the UK - and in particular England, one of the most densely populated countries on earth - clearly cannot sustain net migration of 330,000 a year, in perpetuity, which is what we're getting at the moment, thanks in great part to Free Movement from the EU.
The EU refused to budge on Free Movement, so we had to Leave, and take control of the numbers coming in. The Remainers never had an answer to this question, and still don't, so we're Out.
C'est tout.
LOL
Anyway, I thought you all wanted to be Singapore. Take a look at their population density.
That "nothing" to which you refer is the countryside, which is of far more utility to us than another million people (which is what the country's growing by every two years at the moment.)
More people = more houses, roads and all of the other infrastructure needed to accommodate them, which we can't build fast enough to keep up with demand. It also means more land concreted and less left to feed the ever growing number of mouths, which means ever greater reliance on expensive imported food
It was notable that within England there is an inverse relationship between population density and voting Remain. Tbe crowded parts voted Remain and the least crowded for Leave.
One further reason to Lay Paul Nuttall of course. I think Labour will win, Tories in second, majority reduced. Ditto for Copeland.0 -
yup we should just have sold the germans the munitions to take it overBlack_Rook said:https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/821798085860855808
The greatest mistake in the whole of British history was to honour our commitment to Belgium in 1914. Discuss.0 -
How much do you imagine the shareholders of the companies most affected care about German GDP and trade surplus figures? They are interested in their profits and dividends.Scott_P said:
I would also make the point that the major shareholder in 'German' company Daimler, for example, is the Norwegian Sovereign Wealth Fund. Their obligations are neither to Merkel, Germany or the EU.
In the end, businesses in both the UK and rumpEurope will make decisions that suit them (i.e. their owners).0 -
That's a bit of a silly comment. It's not the ratio of the trade surplus to GDP which matters; you could have a trade surplus of zero (or a deficit, as we do) and still be badly hit, in terms of job losses, if the trade suddenly collapses.Scott_P said:0 -
I disagree - I think it's a good article. As I've said repeatedly, we consistently underestimate the importance of the political project to European leaders. They've put their younger generation on the cross to preserve the Euro, they're hardly going to knuckle under for six months of trend growth.chestnut said:
How much do you imagine the shareholders of the companies most affected care about German GDP and trade surplus figures? They are interested in their profits and dividends.Scott_P said:
I would also make the point that the major shareholder in 'German' company Daimler, for example, is the Norwegian Sovereign Wealth Fund. Their obligations are neither to Merkel, Germany or the EU.
In the end, businesses in both the UK and rumpEurope will make decisions that suit them (i.e. their owners).
0 -
After the referendum, you would have thought people would have learnt the difference between gross and netRichard_Nabavi said:
That's a bit of a silly comment. It's not the ratio of the trade surplus to GDP which matters; you could have a trade surplus of zero (or a deficit, as we do) and still be badly hit, in terms of job losses, if the trade suddenly collapses.Scott_P said:
0 -
I don't doubt that the politicians are invested in the European Project - but the investments that shareholders care about are their own.John_M said:
I disagree - I think it's a good article. As I've said repeatedly, we consistently underestimate the importance of the political project to European leaders. They've put their younger generation on the cross to preserve the Euro, they're hardly going to knuckle under for six months of trend growth.chestnut said:
How much do you imagine the shareholders of the companies most affected care about German GDP and trade surplus figures? They are interested in their profits and dividends.Scott_P said:
I would also make the point that the major shareholder in 'German' company Daimler, for example, is the Norwegian Sovereign Wealth Fund. Their obligations are neither to Merkel, Germany or the EU.
In the end, businesses in both the UK and rumpEurope will make decisions that suit them (i.e. their owners).0 -
-
Also - someone is conflating England (413mile^-2 with UK(268mile^-2) Belgium is 371.6mile^-2 and Netherlands(411.79mile^-2)Tykejohnno said:
Not in bradford they didn't,even leeds was close.foxinsoxuk said:
Both Belgium and tbe Netherlands have population densities significantly higher than England, and indeed so do other regions of Europe such as the Ruhr or Po valley.Black_Rook said:
England is more densely populated than any of the EU27 except Malta. If France had the same population density as England does now, it would be home to about 270 million people. The UK as a whole is a little lower down the table, but that doesn't help given that (a) Scotland and Wales consist mostly of upland terrain, remote islands and bog - completely unsuitable for large-scale urban development - and (b) most immigrants stubbornly refuse to be tempted by the attractions of those lands in any case.surbiton said:
England hardly has any people. Have you driven on the motorways ? Mile after mile of nothing. It is not even the most crowded in Europe.Nigelb said:
"...330,000 a year, in perpetuity, which is what we're getting at the moment..."SeanT said:Whether the Leave vote was or wasn't about immigration is moot, but also essentially irrelevant.
The fact is the UK - and in particular England, one of the most densely populated countries on earth - clearly cannot sustain net migration of 330,000 a year, in perpetuity, which is what we're getting at the moment, thanks in great part to Free Movement from the EU.
The EU refused to budge on Free Movement, so we had to Leave, and take control of the numbers coming in. The Remainers never had an answer to this question, and still don't, so we're Out.
C'est tout.
LOL
Anyway, I thought you all wanted to be Singapore. Take a look at their population density.
That "nothing" to which you refer is the countryside, which is of far more utility to us than another million people (which is what the country's growing by every two years at the moment.)
snip.
snip
It was notable that within England there is an inverse relationship between population density and voting Remain. Tbe crowded parts voted Remain and the least crowded for Leave.
Then you have to remember the pennines/ north york moors/ lake district/ peak district/ exmoor/ bodmin moor/ dartmoor - which occupy large areas for which there is no equivalent in the Netherlands...
Basically England is one drought away from a humanitarian disaster - but it will happen in Remainer territory so I won't mind.0 -
I was going to mention Birmingham but I didn't want to over-do myself ;-)John_M said:
Birmingham is, of course, all rolling fields and meadows. Still, mustn't quibble.Tykejohnno said:
Not in bradford they didn't,even leeds was close.foxinsoxuk said:
Both Belgium and tbe Netherlands have population densities significantly higher than England, and indeed so do other regions of Europe such as the Ruhr or Po valley.Black_Rook said:
England is more densely populated than any of the EU27 except Malta. If France had the same population density as England does now, it would be home to about 270 million people. The UK as a whole is a little lower down the table, but that doesn't help given that (a) Scotland and Wales consist mostly of upland terrain, remote islands and bog - completely unsuitable for large-scale urban development - and (b) most immigrants stubbornly refuse to be tempted by the attractions of those lands in any case.surbiton said:
England hardly has any people. Have you driven on the motorways ? Mile after mile of nothing. It is not even the most crowded in Europe.Nigelb said:
"...330,000 a year, in perpetuity, which is what we're getting at the moment..."SeanT said:Whether the Leave vote was or wasn't about immigration is moot, but also essentially irrelevant.
The fact is the UK - and in particular England, one of the most densely populated countries on earth - clearly cannot sustain net migration of 330,000 a year, in perpetuity, which is what we're getting at the moment, thanks in great part to Free Movement from the EU.
The EU refused to budge on Free Movement, so we had to Leave, and take control of the numbers coming in. The Remainers never had an answer to this question, and still don't, so we're Out.
C'est tout.
LOL
Anyway, I thought you all wanted to be Singapore. Take a look at their population density.
That "nothing" to which you refer is the countryside, which is of far more utility to us than another million people (which is what the country's growing by every two years at the moment.)
Recent polling evidence shows very large majorities in favour of at least some reduction in immigration, even in London and Scotland. The Prime Minister gets this. The great elderly care Ponzi scheme, in which we import young people to compensate for an ageing population, and presumably then import even more young people when the first round of imports themselves grow old, is to be stopped. Good.
It was notable that within England there is an inverse relationship between population density and voting Remain. Tbe crowded parts voted Remain and the least crowded for Leave.0 -
And to you and yours, Mr. Brooke.Alanbrooke said:
Llama manHurstLlama said:
A magnificent post in the full traditions of this site on so many levels. Well done, Sir.tlg86 said:
No. The locomotive, a Class 92 (the class of locomotive manufactured in the UK), is an electric locomotive. There is no OLE or third rail so the train is actually being pushed through the banner by a diesel Class 66 at the back of the train.RobD said:
Incorrect gauge?tlg86 said:10 points for anyone who can spot what's wrong with this image of the China to London freight train:
http://tinyurl.com/gqobcak
happy new year0 -
Continental Europe has, primarily, been a source of bloodshed, hardship and misery to the British people for centuries. Yes, nice food, nice museums, nice people (in the brief interludes where at least some of them haven't been trying to kill us,) but all in all I'm in favour of a bit of constructive disengagement. We'll sell them stuff if they still want to buy it, and that'll probably be about it.Alanbrooke said:
yup we should just have sold the germans the munitions to take it overBlack_Rook said:https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/821798085860855808
The greatest mistake in the whole of British history was to honour our commitment to Belgium in 1914. Discuss.
I'm not even sure that NATO will come through four years of Trump and the likely failure of the Brexit negotiations in one piece, to be honest. I mean, if this does have a significantly adverse economic impact then what will be the first thing to go: free bus passes for the aged, or the cost of stationing troops in Eastern Europe? I can hardly guess...0 -
Yes I think this is true. Labour have been positively daoist over Brexit.BudG said:
Except Tories led both the Leave and Remain campaigns and most of the lies and exagerations on both sides were mainly by Tories, with a little help from Farage. Corbyn might have got flak for being missing in the debate, but I don't recall any lies that can be pinned on him.OllyT said:
Leave won so it's only their lies people are going to focussing on from now on. We will know if Turkey joins the EU, we will know if the NHS gets an extra £350m a week, we already know that we won't be staying in the SM as Hannan promised etc etc.Alanbrooke said:
They liedOllyT said:surbiton said:
Dan Hannan and many others kept on saying that we will be in the single market after Brexit during the campaign.Richard_Nabavi said:
It's the only interpretation which makes any sense at all. The only other possibility would be an EEA-style deal, which combines most of the disadvantages of remaining in the EU without giving us the main advantage of leaving - and which in any case was unambiguously ruled out by all the various Leave campaigns by their use of immigration as one of their principal arguments. That, indeed, was the only clear thing that came out of the campaigning.OllyT said:She's implementing her interpretation of the referendum result, not quite the same thing.
That's now gone the same way as the £350m a week. With hindsight they were clearly just ruses to win the referendum.
so did remain
whats your point ?
And the Point? The point is that as each lie unravels so does the legitimacy of the result. If we had elected a government based on these sort of lies the electorate could punish them at the next GE as they did with the Lib Dems and tuition fees.
With Brexit nobody can be held accountable for winning by lying so it will just fester. The lesson for the next referendum is that anyone can lie through their teeth because they will not be held accountable.
If the GBP decide to hold a Party accountable it will be the Tories who will be in the firing line.
Which leaves all their options open.
Jezza is still your problem there, however.0 -
That's also true but you ain't going to the LDs if it does go tits up and 2/3rds of the UK politicians you have named are Cons plus Jezza's dallying will stand him in good stead (if he were a halfway competent politician, which I appreciate he isn't).Alanbrooke said:
Who will you blame if Brexit craps outOllyT said:
You may have a point if Brexit proves to be a tearaway success but if it goes tits up I can assure you that our fickle electorate will most certainly be hunting for the guilty parties. They are not renowned for accepting their own culpability. We will not hear the end of the £350m a week for many a long year, it will end political mythology along with Chamberlain's "piece of paper".Alanbrooke said:
What naive crapOllyT said:
Leave won so it's only their lies people are going to focussing on from now on. We will know if Turkey joins the EU, we will know if the NHS gets an extra £350m a week, we already know that we won't be staying in the SM as Hannan promised etc etc.Alanbrooke said:
They liedOllyT said:surbiton said:
Dan Hannan and many others kept on saying that we will be in the single market after Brexit during the campaign.Richard_Nabavi said:
It's the only interpretation which makes any sens immigration as one of their principal arguments. That, indeed, was the only clear thing that came out of the campaigning.OllyT said:She's implementing her interpretation of the referendum result, not quite the same thing.
That's now gone the same way as the £350m a week. With hindsight they were clearly just ruses to win the referendum.
so did remain
whats your point ?
And the Point? The point is that as each lie unravels so does the legitimacy of the result. If we had elected a government based on these sort of lies the electorate could punish them at the next GE as they did with the Lib Dems and tuition fees.
With Brexit nobody can be held accountable for winning by lying so it will just fester. The lesson for the next referendum is that anyone can lie through their teeth because they will not be held accountable.
by the time anything happens events will have taken over and the politicians will be covering their arses. If youre pinning your hopes on the blame game you'll be sorely disappointed.
By then nobody will be interested and half the actors will have left the stage
Dave for calling it ?
George for fking it up ?
Obama for being a shit ?
Corbyn for dallying ?
If your hope is Liam Fox or Boris then really you should lie down and have a rest neither accounts for much in the greater scheme of thintgs0 -
I'm quite happy to stop voting conservative again, at least the SNP can get high speed broadband in to rural areasTOPPING said:
That's also true but you ain't going to the LDs if it does go tits up and 2/3rds of the UK politicians you have named are Cons plus Jezza's dallying will stand him in good stead (if he were a halfway competent politician, which I appreciate he isn't).Alanbrooke said:
Who will you blame if Brexit craps outOllyT said:
You may have a point if Brexit proves to be a tearaway succe "piece of paper".Alanbrooke said:
What naive crapOllyT said:
Leave won so it's only their lies people are going to focussing on from now on. We will know if Turkey joins the EU, we will know if the NHS gets an extra £350m a week, we already know that we won't be staying in the SM as Hannan promised etc etc.Alanbrooke said:
They liedOllyT said:surbiton said:
Dan Hannan and many others kept on saying that we will be in the single market after Brexit during the campaign.Richard_Nabavi said:
It's the only interpretation which makes any sens immigration as one of their principal arguments. That, indeed, was the only clear thing that came out of the campaigning.OllyT said:She's implementing her interpretation of the referendum result, not quite the same thing.
That's now gone the same way as the £350m a week. With hindsight they were clearly just ruses to win the referendum.
so did remain
whats your point ?
And the Point? The point is that as each lie unravels so does the legitimacy of the result. If we had elected a government based on these sort of lies the electorate could punish them at the next GE as they did with the Lib Dems and tuition fees.
With Brexit nobody can be held accountable for winning by lying so it will just fester. The lesson for the next referendum is that anyone can lie through their teeth because they will not be held accountable.
by the time anything happens events will have taken over and the politicians will be covering their arses. If youre pinning your hopes on the blame game you'll be sorely disappointed.
By then nobody will be interested and half the actors will have left the stage
Dave for calling it ?
George for fking it up ?
Obama for being a shit ?
Corbyn for dallying ?
If your hope is Liam Fox or Boris then really you should lie down and have a rest neither accounts for much in the greater scheme of thintgs0 -
0
-
I'm sure Jezza can organise the Peoples' broadband for you.Alanbrooke said:
I'm quite happy to stop voting conservative again, at least the SNP can get high speed broadband in to rural areasTOPPING said:
That's also true but you ain't going to the LDs if it does go tits up and 2/3rds of the UK politicians you have named are Cons plus Jezza's dallying will stand him in good stead (if he were a halfway competent politician, which I appreciate he isn't).Alanbrooke said:
Who will you blame if Brexit craps outOllyT said:
You may have a point if Brexit proves to be a tearaway succe "piece of paper".Alanbrooke said:
What naive crapOllyT said:
Leave won so it's only their lies people are going to focussing on from now on. We will know if Turkey joins the EU, we will know if the NHS gets an extra £350m a week, we already know that we won't be staying in the SM as Hannan promised etc etc.Alanbrooke said:
They liedOllyT said:surbiton said:
Dan Hannan and many others kept on saying that we will be in the single market after Brexit during the campaign.Richard_Nabavi said:
It's the only interpretation which makes any sens immigration as one of their principal arguments. That, indeed, was the only clear thing that came out of the campaigning.OllyT said:She's implementing her interpretation of the referendum result, not quite the same thing.
That's now gone the same way as the £350m a week. With hindsight they were clearly just ruses to win the referendum.
so did remain
whats your point ?
And the Point? The point is that as each lie unravels so does the legitimacy of the result. If we had elected a government based on these sort of lies the electorate could punish them at the next GE as they did with the Lib Dems and tuition fees.
With Brexit nobody can be held accountable for winning by lying so it will just fester. The lesson for the next referendum is that anyone can lie through their teeth because they will not be held accountable.
by the time anything happens events will have taken over and the politicians will be covering their arses. If youre pinning your hopes on the blame game you'll be sorely disappointed.
By then nobody will be interested and half the actors will have left the stage
Dave for calling it ?
George for fking it up ?
Obama for being a shit ?
Corbyn for dallying ?
If your hope is Liam Fox or Boris then really you should lie down and have a rest neither accounts for much in the greater scheme of thintgs0 -
better than the Tories can at any rateTOPPING said:
I'm sure Jezza can organise the Peoples' broadband for you.Alanbrooke said:
I'm quite happy to stop voting conservative again, at least the SNP can get high speed broadband in to rural areasTOPPING said:
That's also true but you ain't going to the LDs if it does go tits up and 2/3rds of the UK politicians you have named are Cons plus Jezza's dallying will stand him in good stead (if he were a halfway competent politician, which I appreciate he isn't).Alanbrooke said:
Who will you blame if Brexit craps outOllyT said:
You may have a point if Brexit proves to be a tearaway succe "piece of paper".Alanbrooke said:
What naive crapOllyT said:
Leave won so it's only their lies p lie through their teeth because they will not be held accountable.Alanbrooke said:
They liedOllyT said:surbiton said:
Dan Hannan and many others kept on saying that we will be in the single market after Brexit during the campaign.Richard_Nabavi said:
It's the only interpretation which makes any sens immigration as one of their principal arguments. That, indeed, was the only clear thing that came out of the campaigning.OllyT said:She's implementing her interpretation of the referendum result, not quite the same thing.
That's now gone the same way as the £350m a week. With hindsight they were clearly just ruses to win the referendum.
so did remain
whats your point ?
by the time anything happens events will have take will have left the stage
Dave for calling it ?
George for fking it up ?
Obama for being a shit ?
Corbyn for dallying ?
If your hope is Liam Fox or Boris then really you should lie down and have a rest neither accounts for much in the greater scheme of thintgs
it's a hot issue in our village. The conservatives councillors are all blaming it on Osborne saying it needs EU approval as its a subsidy. BT are blaming it on us being a remote area which got laughed out of court as were 10 miles for the UKs second largest conglomerate and 5 miles from a town of 100,000 people.
All things told its just crap planning and no will from HMG to punish BT.
I had the best rural service last year in Fort Augustus in the middle of the Highlands, really the english just put up with shit.0
This discussion has been closed.