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Anyone else who subscribes to Popbitch, please tell me the story about the beloved sci-fi actress and her dog isn't about Carrie Fisher.

Suggest some alternatives.

Sandpit said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

On topic, you could argue the greatest Prime Minister we never had went to Cambridge.

Ken Clarke.

A table of some general election losers makes bad reading for Oxford.

Oxford: Miliband, Hague, Callaghan (applied) Wilson (twice) Heath

Cambridge: Howard

Others: Brown, Kinnock,

NG: Major

So Oxford leads the losers table.

Ken Clarke would have been an atrocious PM. He might even have vied with Heath for the title of worst post war PM.

Ken Clarke was so good that the Tories went for Iain Duncan Smith instead.

Just think what might have happened if they hadn't:

http://www.alternatehistory.com/forum/threads/but-for-a-vote-ken-clarke-wins-the-2001-tory-leadership-contest.361152/

TheScreamingEagles said:

Anyone else who subscribes to Popbitch, please tell me the story about the beloved sci-fi actress and her dog isn't about Carrie Fisher.

Suggest some alternatives.

As she's now dead. Surely they would have named her if that was the case.

Hertsmere_Pubgoer said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Anyone else who subscribes to Popbitch, please tell me the story about the beloved sci-fi actress and her dog isn't about Carrie Fisher.

Suggest some alternatives.

As she's now dead. Surely they would have named her if that was the case.

But she's the only beloved sci-fi actress that I can think of that owned a dog.

Not a movie buff, Courtney Weaver?

No wonder the economics profession 'is in crisis' (according to Andy Haldane):

There is a lot that could be done to lift the performance of under-performing companies, [Andy Haldane] says. As one example, he says it is easy to borrow against physical property, but much harder to borrow against intellectual property.

Only an economist could be stupid enough not to realise that there's a very good reason for that!

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2017/jan/05/whitehall-lacks-skills-for-hard-nosed-brexit-negotiation-says-former-trade-envoy-politics-live

david_herdson said:

Sandpit said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

On topic, you could argue the greatest Prime Minister we never had went to Cambridge.

Ken Clarke.

A table of some general election losers makes bad reading for Oxford.

Oxford: Miliband, Hague, Callaghan (applied) Wilson (twice) Heath

Cambridge: Howard

Others: Brown, Kinnock,

NG: Major

So Oxford leads the losers table.

Ken Clarke would have been an atrocious PM. He might even have vied with Heath for the title of worst post war PM.

Ken Clarke was so good that the Tories went for Iain Duncan Smith instead.

Just think what might have happened if they hadn't:

http://www.alternatehistory.com/forum/threads/but-for-a-vote-ken-clarke-wins-the-2001-tory-leadership-contest.361152/

That was a good read. But yes, we would have most likely joined the Euro.

Carolus_Rex said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Anyone else who subscribes to Popbitch, please tell me the story about the beloved sci-fi actress and her dog isn't about Carrie Fisher.

Suggest some alternatives.

Movie or TV?

Doesn't say, just says actress.

Richard_Tyndall said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

On topic, you could argue the greatest Prime Minister we never had went to Cambridge.

Ken Clarke.

A table of some general election losers makes bad reading for Oxford.

Oxford: Miliband, Hague, Callaghan (applied) Wilson (twice) Heath

Cambridge: Howard

Others: Brown, Kinnock,

NG: Major

So Oxford leads the losers table.

Ken Clarke would have been an atrocious PM. He might even have vied with Heath for the title of worst post war PM.

Pretty sure he'd have been better than IDS though...

Remarkable chart - congrats to Mike or whoever else did the research.

In Frankfurt this week. German polls remain stable:

http://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/

- no obvious alternative to Merkel is emerging. Did the weekly (ReWe) supermarket shop for a friend - prices are generally similar to e.g. Tesco, except fresh fruit out of season (much more expensive - e.g. blackberries £3.80 vs £2 in UK) and general absence of cheapest variations - you'd struggle to find cheap cuts of meat, non-free range eggs, etc. Much less microwaveable stuff (which is my own staple diet) - emphasis very heavily on "natural freshly prepared food".

NickPalmer said:

Remarkable chart - congrats to Mike or whoever else did the research.

In Frankfurt this week. German polls remain stable:

http://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/

- no obvious alternative to Merkel is emerging. Did the weekly (ReWe) supermarket shop for a friend - prices are generally similar to e.g. Tesco, except fresh fruit out of season (much more expensive - e.g. blackberries £3.80 vs £2 in UK) and general absence of cheapest variations - you'd struggle to find cheap cuts of meat, non-free range eggs, etc. Much less microwaveable stuff (which is my own staple diet) - emphasis very heavily on "natural freshly prepared food".

I'm sure there were barrels of sourkraut and loads of wurst - German fast food

Brilliant (even better on twitter.com where the text comes first):
https://twitter.com/stephenkb/status/817009686314680320

midwinter said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

On topic, you could argue the greatest Prime Minister we never had went to Cambridge.

Ken Clarke.

A table of some general election losers makes bad reading for Oxford.

Oxford: Miliband, Hague, Callaghan (applied) Wilson (twice) Heath

Cambridge: Howard

Others: Brown, Kinnock,

NG: Major

So Oxford leads the losers table.

Ken Clarke would have been an atrocious PM. He might even have vied with Heath for the title of worst post war PM.

Pretty sure he'd have been better than IDS though...

So would Healey, the other best PM we never had (Oxford, though).

I think Clarke would have been OK; stays relatively calm in a crisis.

Doesn't Eden deserve the title 'worst post War PM', along with others who made disastrous foreign policy errors?

SeanT said:

matt said:

HYUFD said:

matt said:

HYUFD said:

Pulpstar said:

The Oxford (With very occasional Cambridge and a couple of Edinburgh/Glasgow or none) sequence continues right back to Sir Robert Walpole.

Previous to that it seems the most important non royal position was the Lord High Treasurer, which seems to have been related to the church in the early days - (Various Bishops seemed to get the position, the first of which was Nigel of Ely...).

Before that position was created the key figure I suppose was the Archbishop of Canterbury, and that gets you back to St Augustine in ~ 600.

Given Oxford, Cambridge, St Andrew's, Aberdeen, Edinburgh and Glasgow were the only universities in the UK until Durham was founded in 1832 that is not surprising

You're incorrect. I'd check again if I were you.

Edit: someone's noted TCD but you might also look at London.

UCL was also early nineteenth century

You're moving towards accuracy.

UCL is my university: the Godless College of Gower Street. A whirl of metropolitan sexiness and very hard drugs. We look down on the country bumpkins of Oxbridge.

Plus we have the corpse of our founder, philosopher Jeremy Bentham, embalmed and kept in a box in the University cloisters, and sometimes he is wheeled into meetings of the College Council. Beat that.

https://www.ucl.ac.uk/museums/jeremy-bentham

We may be country bumpkins, but at least our university isn't younger than America....

SeanT said:

matt said:

HYUFD said:

matt said:

HYUFD said:

Pulpstar said:

The Oxford (With very occasional Cambridge and a couple of Edinburgh/Glasgow or none) sequence continues right back to Sir Robert Walpole.

Previous to that it seems the most important non royal position was the Lord High Treasurer, which seems to have been related to the church in the early days - (Various Bishops seemed to get the position, the first of which was Nigel of Ely...).

Before that position was created the key figure I suppose was the Archbishop of Canterbury, and that gets you back to St Augustine in ~ 600.

Given Oxford, Cambridge, St Andrew's, Aberdeen, Edinburgh and Glasgow were the only universities in the UK until Durham was founded in 1832 that is not surprising

You're incorrect. I'd check again if I were you.

Edit: someone's noted TCD but you might also look at London.

UCL was also early nineteenth century

You're moving towards accuracy.

UCL is my university: the Godless College of Gower Street. A whirl of metropolitan sexiness and very hard drugs. We look down on the country bumpkins of Oxbridge.

Plus we have the corpse of our founder, philosopher Jeremy Bentham, embalmed and kept in a box in the University cloisters, and sometimes he is wheeled into meetings of the College Council. Beat that.

https://www.ucl.ac.uk/museums/jeremy-bentham

The wheeling-him-in-to-meetings thing is an urban legend apparently (according to a friend of mine who used to work there). A true story though is that they keep of book in which the UCL academics must declare any relationships they've had with students - to guard against conflicts of interest when marking etc. Apparently the randier dons use it as a guide for finding out who the 'easier' students are, and make their lascivious move.

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Jessop, not up on the tech, but I wonder if it is a laser, or a maser.

I'm pretty sure (citation needed) that all the SDI Star Wars work was on visible-light or near visible-light lasers, not masers.

I might be wrong though, and something stirring in the back of my mind makes me think there were also x-ray energy devices experimented with at the time,

Sadly it's not my field, and Mrs J (who might know) is at work.

@david_herdson - You end your story by saying that Brown appoints a female chancellor - Who? Hewitt? Kelly?

JosiasJessop said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Ten years behind the advances of Morris Dancer:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-38510344

There's a great quote about laser weapons during the star wars program in the 80s. Sadly, I cannot remember if it is fictional or real (I *think* the latter):

The military were trying to explain directed energy weapons to some congressmen. One of the politicians, obviously versed in too much science fiction, asked: "Could this weapon vaporise me?"

"Sure," one of the militarymen replied. "If you stood still for a couple of years."

Lasers have improved a little since then ...

The US Army is very innovative. They carry out research into such tactics as walking through Walls, killing people using thought transference, bending spoons, using cats as assassins, and casting spells against their enemies.

Mr. F, don't forget brown noise.

DavidL said:

I am not exactly a revolutionary socialist but reading a table like that could make you one, it really could.

Quite.

I meet lots of Oxford types in my line of work. A significant proportion of them are w*nkers. And quite a few of the rest have about as much common-sense as my front door mat.

Mortimer said:

BannedInParis said:

Mortimer said:

BannedInParis said:

SandyRentool said:

Thinking of University Challenge, Oxford and Cambridge ought to have primaries, to pick which team they want to send through to the competition. Or else rebrand the programme "Oxbridge College Challenge".

We do. All thirty colleges at Oxford apply for a handful of places - the exact amount determined by scores and, frankly, telegenics.

I still weep about not making it on TV despite being in the BNC team 3 times...

The year after I retired to our second team, the first team got on telly for the first time in ages.

That's the bit I always chuckle when its on social media about XXX from YYY being a bit intense. You lot didn't see the people that didn't get on telly ...

I feared, after the event, that a similar 'Mortimer is too boring' veto may have prevented the team making it.

PB would have a fantastic Uni Challenge team....

TSE's pop knowledge, RCS on everything mathematical, JJ for sciences and Mr Dancer for historical knowledge.

You don't need Mr Dancer for historical knowledge when you've got me on the team.

nunu said:

weejonnie said:

SandyRentool said:

Thinking of University Challenge, Oxford and Cambridge ought to have primaries, to pick which team they want to send through to the competition. Or else rebrand the programme "Oxbridge College Challenge".

It irks me that Durham - which is also Collegiate only has one team. I think there is an internal competition between the colleges to pick the best college team rather than the best Durham University team.

Declaration of interest.

Went to Durham High School for girls, The Chorister School for boys, Durham School (at the time for boys) and my son went to Collingwood College, Durham.

Which bathroom did you use?

Toilet!

TheScreamingEagles said:

tlg86 said:

@david_herdson - You end your story by saying that Brown appoints a female chancellor - Who? Hewitt? Kelly?

Yvette Cooper.

Too early for her - David implies she had experience at the Treasury so that would suggest one of the junior posts which Hewitt and Kelly held.

OldKingCole said:

Sean_F said:

JosiasJessop said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Ten years behind the advances of Morris Dancer:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-38510344

There's a great quote about laser weapons during the star wars program in the 80s. Sadly, I cannot remember if it is fictional or real (I *think* the latter):

The military were trying to explain directed energy weapons to some congressmen. One of the politicians, obviously versed in too much science fiction, asked: "Could this weapon vaporise me?"

"Sure," one of the militarymen replied. "If you stood still for a couple of years."

Lasers have improved a little since then ...

The US Army is very innovative. They carry out research into such tactics as walking through Walls, killing people using thought transference, bending spoons, using cats as assassins, and casting spells against their enemies.

Very entertaining film, The Men who Stare at Goats.

Not to mention using the music from Barney the Dinosaur to break captives.

Pulpstar said:

Sounds like a Brexity brexit to me.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01/04/theresa-may-set-brexit-vision-warn-uk-will-quit-single-market/?WT.mc_id=tmgliveapp_androidshare_AnLBNxq3R557

I'm waiting for the torrent of abuse from the remainers saying this is too hard and that a court case to prevent it will be lodged

rcs1000 said:

Dromedary said:

rcs1000 said:

I want to lay Le Pen. Given she (personally) didn't even come close in the most FN friendly region of France against an insipid LR candidate in the immediate aftermath of the Bataclan and Nice attaks, I can't see how she can possibly win the Presidency absent a massive shock.

Just some facts, for people to do with as they wish:

Hauts-de-France regional election, 2015:

R1: 1st: Le Pen, 41%, 909000 votes (polling predicted 42%)
2nd: Bertrand, 25%, 558000 votes
turnout 55%

R2: 1st Bertrand, 58%, 1389000 votes (polling for R2 before R1 predicted 53%)
2nd Le Pen, 42%, 1016000 votes
turnout 61%

In the presidential election, turnout will probably exceed 80% in both rounds.

I think that rather proves my point. Let's just assume that all the 20% increase in turnout between the regionals and the presidential goes to the Front National. That would put Le Pen in the lead, but only by a relatively modest margin, perhaps 56:44. (Her vote would increase to about 1.8m.)

If she only wins Haut de France by that margin, she probably loses the Presidential race by close to twenty points.

More like six points.

Working:

2015 regional, R2
HDF: Le Pen 42%, turnout 61%;
whole country: Le Pen 27%, turnout 58%

2017 presidential, R2
assume turnout 80% and all regional abstainers back Le Pen
HdF: Le Pen: 55% = (0.41+(80/61-1))/(1+(80/61-1))
whole country: Le Pen: (0.27+(80/58-1))/(1+(80/58-1)) = 47%

I agree she needs to win votes from those who voted for other parties in the regionals.

It's interesting that in the regional in HdF, which contains the Calais "jungle", a lot of people who abstained in R1 turned out to vote for her opponent in R2.

But that region may not be her best in the presidential. In 2012, Hollande won both rounds in both Nord and Pas de Calais. Most of the refugees there are from black Africa, Afghanistan, etc. Many don't speak French and don't want to live in France. The issue there overlaps with multiculturalism but it isn't the same. HdF wasn't even the FN's best regional result in 2015. They won 45% in R2 in Provence-Alpes-Côte d'Azur, which includes Marseilles, for a list headed by Marion.

Sean_F said:

JosiasJessop said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Ten years behind the advances of Morris Dancer:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-38510344

There's a great quote about laser weapons during the star wars program in the 80s. Sadly, I cannot remember if it is fictional or real (I *think* the latter):

The military were trying to explain directed energy weapons to some congressmen. One of the politicians, obviously versed in too much science fiction, asked: "Could this weapon vaporise me?"

"Sure," one of the militarymen replied. "If you stood still for a couple of years."

Lasers have improved a little since then ...

The US Army is very innovative. They carry out research into such tactics as walking through Walls, killing people using thought transference, bending spoons, using cats as assassins, and casting spells against their enemies.

They are also very big on non lethal weapons and have put a lot of research into them. These include subsonics which literally make you lose control of your bowels, weapons that induce temporary blindness, microwave weapons that make you feel like your skin is on fire as long as it is directed at you and stuff like riot foam (I believe the Japanese are already well advanced with this for policing.

Funnily enough with many of these weapons they would be in breach of the Geneva conventions. It is okay to kill someone but not to make them feel uncomfortable for a while.

JosiasJessop said:

Pity me.

I've just spent three and a half hours at a children's soft play (aka baby cage)

I was standing against a wall keeping my eye on the little 'un when something whacks me right in the tackle. I double over, and when I open my eyes a cherubic little boy, blonde, not more than four years of age, is aiming another punch.

I thought that might amuse a few of you ...

Good value for my 20p there I think.

http://order-order.com/2017/01/05/compare-contrast-economist-cameron-may/

On the left, The Economist on Dave a few months after he became PM, mocked up with a mohican with the headline “Radical Britain: the West’s most daring government”. On the right, The Economist on “Theresa Maybe” this week: “Britain’s indecisive premier”. The Economist might be Remainer whinge-fest at the moment but the new Number 10 has failed to kill this narrative in its first few months…

malcolmg said:

JosiasJessop said:

Pity me.

I've just spent three and a half hours at a children's soft play (aka baby cage)

I was standing against a wall keeping my eye on the little 'un when something whacks me right in the tackle. I double over, and when I open my eyes a cherubic little boy, blonde, not more than four years of age, is aiming another punch.

I thought that might amuse a few of you ...

Good value for my 20p there I think.

SquareRoot said:

No surprise Cambridge doesn't feature, after all those spies that were uncovered.. Hence the Dark blue walkover.

Oxford had the better spies too it seems

TheWhiteRabbit said:

SquareRoot said:

No surprise Cambridge doesn't feature, after all those spies that were uncovered.. Hence the Dark blue walkover.

Oxford had the better spies too it seems

Yup, poor Arthur Wynn never got the credit he deserves, it was an establishment cover up

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1423660/MI6-officer-suspected-of-being-Soviet-spy-was-never-questioned.html

Anyway, off for a bit.

That white boy who was kidnapped by those black teenagers was autistic and he thought one of them were his friends. People are sick. I give up on people.

nunu said:

That white boy who was kidnapped by those black teenagers was autistic and he thought one of them were his friends. People are sick. I give up on people.

There is an element of complete scum in any given population, but that element is a minority, albeit, one that can come to the fore in war or revolution.

Dromedary said:

david_herdson said:

Winston might well have ended up where he did anyway through sheer force of personality but his background was hardly a hindrance.

Perhaps if rather than being born at Blenheim Palace he'd been born at Chatsworth, and rather than attending Harrow he'd been educated at Rugby, yes. But what would it mean even to imagine his having been born down the Old Kent Road and left some dump school at 11? He wouldn't have had the slightest chance of ending up where he did.

People do emerge from nowhere to positions of great power, but they're very rare.

Churchill and Major - non-Oxford!

Dromedary said:

More like six points.

Working:

2015 regional, R2
HDF: Le Pen 42%, turnout 61%;
whole country: Le Pen 27%, turnout 58%

2017 presidential, R2
assume turnout 80% and all regional abstainers back Le Pen
HdF: Le Pen: 55% = (0.41+(80/61-1))/(1+(80/61-1))
whole country: Le Pen: (0.27+(80/58-1))/(1+(80/58-1)) = 47%

I agree she needs to win votes from those who voted for other parties in the regionals.

It's interesting that in the regional in HdF, which contains the Calais "jungle", a lot of people who abstained in R1 turned out to vote for her opponent in R2.

But that region may not be her best in the presidential. In 2012, Hollande won both rounds in both Nord and Pas de Calais. Most of the refugees there are from black Africa, Afghanistan, etc. Many don't speak French and don't want to live in France. The issue there overlaps with multiculturalism but it isn't the same. HdF wasn't even the FN's best regional result in 2015. They won 45% in R2 in Provence-Alpes-Côte d'Azur, which includes Marseilles, for a list headed by Marion.

You are absolutely right about Provence-Alpes-Cote d'Azur, and I'd forgotten about that.

But you are forgetting Paris. They didn't vote in the French regionals, and the FN is (relatively) weak there. Including that, it probably pushes the FN down to 45%.

Nevertheless, the assumption we're making is heroic the FN. That turnout increases from 58% to 80% and *all* of the increase goes the FN. This ignores, of course, the fact that the FN's first round opinion poll share has dropped from 32% then to 24% now.

Absent a whole series of Bataclans (and let's not forget the Bataclan attacks, which killed 130 people, happened just before the French regionals), it's very hard to see how the FN can go from a mid twenties first round score, to north of 50% in the second round.

Edit to add: Lyon didn't vote either, nor some of the overseas departements where the FN has negligible support.

I am loving Trump's embrace of Assange, having called for his execution a few years ago.

The right-on luvvy lefties - spearheaded by Ken Loach - are going to be spitting blood.

The swivel-eyed right-wingers who once hated him are now portraying him as a hero.

All very amusing.

Worth remembering he is where he is because he refuses to travel to Sweden to face allegations of rape.

TheScreamingEagles said:

http://order-order.com/2017/01/05/compare-contrast-economist-cameron-may/

On the left, The Economist on Dave a few months after he became PM, mocked up with a mohican with the headline “Radical Britain: the West’s most daring government”. On the right, The Economist on “Theresa Maybe” this week: “Britain’s indecisive premier”. The Economist might be Remainer whinge-fest at the moment but the new Number 10 has failed to kill this narrative in its first few months…

I'm convinced this is as much about the new administration not being as briefing/media friendly as the last than any real issues.

Most people are happy with Theresa, and she'll win far more Con/Lab marginals than Dave ever could have done.

TheScreamingEagles said:

Mortimer said:

BannedInParis said:

Mortimer said:

BannedInParis said:

SandyRentool said:

Thinking of University Challenge, Oxford and Cambridge ought to have primaries, to pick which team they want to send through to the competition. Or else rebrand the programme "Oxbridge College Challenge".

We do. All thirty colleges at Oxford apply for a handful of places - the exact amount determined by scores and, frankly, telegenics.

I still weep about not making it on TV despite being in the BNC team 3 times...

The year after I retired to our second team, the first team got on telly for the first time in ages.

That's the bit I always chuckle when its on social media about XXX from YYY being a bit intense. You lot didn't see the people that didn't get on telly ...

I feared, after the event, that a similar 'Mortimer is too boring' veto may have prevented the team making it.

PB would have a fantastic Uni Challenge team....

TSE's pop knowledge, RCS on everything mathematical, JJ for sciences and Mr Dancer for historical knowledge.

You don't need Mr Dancer for historical knowledge when you've got me on the team.

That was too quick!

TheScreamingEagles said:

felix said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

On topic, you could argue the greatest Prime Minister we never had went to Cambridge.

Ken Clarke.

A table of some general election losers makes bad reading for Oxford.

Oxford: Miliband, Hague, Callaghan (applied) Wilson (twice) Heath (three times)

Cambridge: Howard

Others: Brown, Kinnock,

NG: Major

So Oxford leads the losers table.

As a Cambridge man I'd love to agree but how do you square this with the all political careers [ especially those of PMs end in failure?

I think power becomes an addiction, you could argue in the last hundred years no Prime Minister left office at a time of their own choosing, Wilson maybe, but I think he knew he was developing Alzheimer's.

Had Dave won the referendum, he would have been a rarity, a PM choosing to stand down at the time of his choosing.

He did stand down at a time of his own choosing

SeanT said:

nunu said:

That white boy who was kidnapped by those black teenagers was autistic and he thought one of them were his friends. People are sick. I give up on people.

It's a hideous story. And the policeman tried to dismiss it as "just kids doing stupid things"

Would he say that if it had been an autistic black lad tortured by white thugs? Disgraceful.

Forgetting the racial element, there was an horrific murder/torture of an mentally disabled Englishman by feral teenagers about a decade ago. It brought me to tears. How do people like that exist?

Yorkcity said:

FF43 said:

I think people might be underestimating Theresa May - just as they laughed at John Major for being boring, but he was actually quite good. Without a shadow of doubt, Brexit will be extended crap. Mediocre PM for mediocre times? Theresa's your man! Someone with more imagination might try to do something and muck it all up. As far as I can detect any May strategy at all, it seems to be to declare out-ness, call it a triumph and hope everyone wants to forget about it from then on.

It may just work!

Tissue_Price said:

Brilliant (even better on twitter.com where the text comes first):
https://twitter.com/stephenkb/status/817009686314680320

I agree May is as boring as Geoff Boycott at the crease .He played for himself was never a good captain but was idolised by the truly faithfull. May will extend the Brexit crap until people will
Want her to declare and ask for the follow on.

Theresa May = Geoff Boycott is perfect.

rcs1000 said:

Yorkcity said:

Hugh Gaitskell might have won in 1964 another Oxford man.However John Smith might also have won in 1997 from Glasgow . It would be good for the Labour legacy and for meritocracy if an Open University graduate made it to PM.

I heard a rumour that John Smith was bumped off by a secretive group of Oxford academics.

It was either that or the booze.

Perhaps one of the conspirators was Christopher Hill? Eight years between leaving the Communist Party and being elected Master of Balliol!

SouthamObserver said:

Yorkcity said:

FF43 said:

I think people might be underestimating Theresa May - just as they laughed at John Major for being boring, but he was actually quite good. Without a shadow of doubt, Brexit will be extended crap. Mediocre PM for mediocre times? Theresa's your man! Someone with more imagination might try to do something and muck it all up. As far as I can detect any May strategy at all, it seems to be to declare out-ness, call it a triumph and hope everyone wants to forget about it from then on.

It may just work!

Tissue_Price said:

Brilliant (even better on twitter.com where the text comes first):
https://twitter.com/stephenkb/status/817009686314680320

I agree May is as boring as Geoff Boycott at the crease .He played for himself was never a good captain but was idolised by the truly faithfull. May will extend the Brexit crap until people will
Want her to declare and ask for the follow on.

Theresa May = Geoff Boycott is perfect.

The rest of the lead batting line up will get systematically eliminated as they're left to face the fast bowling, until she brings in a similarly boring nightwatchman to avoid having to put Andrea Leadsom at the Brexit crease.

isam said:

SeanT said:

nunu said:

That white boy who was kidnapped by those black teenagers was autistic and he thought one of them were his friends. People are sick. I give up on people.

It's a hideous story. And the policeman tried to dismiss it as "just kids doing stupid things"

Would he say that if it had been an autistic black lad tortured by white thugs? Disgraceful.

Forgetting the racial element, there was an horrific murder/torture of an mentally disabled Englishman by feral teenagers about a decade ago. It brought me to tears. How do people like that exist?

My view is that it comes down to a combination of the following:
*) Bad 'genes' (by which I mean negative inherent traits, even if slight ones such as hyperactivity)
*) Bad parenting.
*) Bad associates - e.g. friends, role models.

Someone can, with drive, overcome these. All three together can be toxic.

TheScreamingEagles said:

felix said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

On topic, you could argue the greatest Prime Minister we never had went to Cambridge.

Ken Clarke.

A table of some general election losers makes bad reading for Oxford.

Oxford: Miliband, Hague, Callaghan (applied) Wilson (twice) Heath (three times)

Cambridge: Howard

Others: Brown, Kinnock,

NG: Major

So Oxford leads the losers table.

As a Cambridge man I'd love to agree but how do you square this with the all political careers [ especially those of PMs end in failure?

I think power becomes an addiction, you could argue in the last hundred years no Prime Minister left office at a time of their own choosing, Wilson maybe, but I think he knew he was developing Alzheimer's.

Had Dave won the referendum, he would have been a rarity, a PM choosing to stand down at the time of his choosing.

In the last 100 years, Baldwin probably counts as an unforced retirement in 1937.

Dromedary said:

david_herdson said:

Winston might well have ended up where he did anyway through sheer force of personality but his background was hardly a hindrance.

Perhaps if rather than being born at Blenheim Palace he'd been born at Chatsworth, and rather than attending Harrow he'd been educated at Rugby, yes. But what would it mean even to imagine his having been born down the Old Kent Road and left some dump school at 11? He wouldn't have had the slightest chance of ending up where he did.

In contradiction of which, I give you his friend and rival, David Lloyd George.