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HYUFD said:

Given the best universities in the country are Oxford and Cambridge (with the PPE course provided by the former but not the latter explaining its disproportionate share of PMs) it is not surprising Oxford is overrepresented in election winning MPs (though Chamberlain went to Birmingham and Brown Edinburgh albeit neither won an election). However I don't see why an election winning non-Oxbridge PM would be a defeat for the elite for example if an Eton and Bristol educated City Lawyer beat a comprehensive and Oxford educated social worker would that be a defeat for the elite? I think not.

Oxbridge conspiracy theorists would point to the storms of sneering abuse that have greeted non-Oxford leaders such as Kinnock, Major and Brown; not to mention Jeremy Corbyn. And a quick glance at wikipedia tells me Andrea Leadsom was a Warwick graduate up against Oxford's Theresa May.

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Roger, Germany does have a lot of good artists, though. I'm sure it'd be enthralling to visit a Kunstmuseum.

I was taken to a museum of erotic art in Hamburg once. So if I'd picked up a guide it would have been titled 'Museum der erotischen kunst

Pulpstar said:

The Oxford (With very occasional Cambridge and a couple of Edinburgh/Glasgow or none) sequence continues right back to Sir Robert Walpole.

Previous to that it seems the most important non royal position was the Lord High Treasurer, which seems to have been related to the church in the early days - (Various Bishops seemed to get the position, the first of which was Nigel of Ely...).

Before that position was created the key figure I suppose was the Archbishop of Canterbury, and that gets you back to St Augustine in ~ 600.

Given Oxford, Cambridge, St Andrew's, Aberdeen, Edinburgh and Glasgow were the only universities in the UK until Durham was founded in 1832 that is not surprising

David_Evershed said:

rottenborough said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

TOPPING said:

MaxPB said:

Alanbrooke said:

So basically while Cambridge nurtures genius and advances mankind, Oxford just dicks the country about

Cambridge is the home of rabid leftism.

Every university is the home of rabid leftism. Save for Durham, Exeter, perhaps.

Somewhat surprisingly perhaps, in the mid 80s Cardiff was the only University which had a Tory student union administration. Welshowl and I both dabbled in that at the time.

Nottingham was deeply Tory in 1980s.

Nottingham University is dominated by Engineers and Scientists who are practical people rather than dreamers.

When I went to Nottingham University the Student Union was strictly non partisan with an emphasis on student only matters. People were all independents nobody was elected on a party label. I went to the NUS Conference in 2003 and I swear we were the only ones to vote against a motion that the NUS opposes the Iraq War as we felt the NUS should concern itself with student issues not waste a day on a war that had already started and had nothing to do with students.

Clearly it is time for an OU PPE wonk to have a go at being PM, rather than an Oxford PPE wonk.

Oh, and why is it that Oxbridge types 'read' their degree subject, when everyone else 'did' their degree subject?

Ishmael_Z said:

HYUFD said:

Given the best universities in the country are Oxford and Cambridge (with the PPE course provided by the former but not the latter explaining its disproportionate share of PMs) it is not surprising Oxford is overrepresented in election winning MPs (though Chamberlain went to Birmingham and Brown Edinburgh albeit neither won an election). However I don't see why an election winning non-Oxbridge PM would be a defeat for the elite for example if an Eton and Bristol educated City Lawyer beat a comprehensive and Oxford educated social worker would that be a defeat for the elite? I think not.

I have heard from more than one source recently that public school pupils currently looking for university places are rejecting Oxford and Cambridge for other reasons than that they don't think they are bright enough. There may of course be a huge "they would say that, wouldn't they?" factor in this.

Some of the brightest are certainly going to Harvard, Yale, Stanford etc but that is just swapping one set of elite universities for another in the US. In the UK Bristol, Edinburgh, Durham, Exeter and St Andrew's have long had more than their fair share of former Harrow, Eton, Westminster and Winchester pupils

Everyone says the Euro is too weak for Germany but if that was the case it should be having rabid inflation. Inflation does not seem to be a major German problem. So is the Euro too weak for Germany or is it just right for them and wrong for everyone else?

SandyRentool said:

Clearly it is time for an OU PPE wonk to have a go at being PM, rather than an Oxford PPE wonk.

Oh, and why is it that Oxbridge types 'read' their degree subject, when everyone else 'did' their degree subject?

Because you'd sound ridiculous on University Challenge

SandyRentool said:

Clearly it is time for an OU PPE wonk to have a go at being PM, rather than an Oxford PPE wonk.

Oh, and why is it that Oxbridge types 'read' their degree subject, when everyone else 'did' their degree subject?

And are undergraduates rather than mere students. And have double firsts instead of "did quite well in the end of year exams that no-one else ever mentions." And can buy post-graduate degrees for a hundred quid or so.

DecrepitJohnL said:

HYUFD said:

Given the best universities in the country are Oxford and Cambridge (with the PPE course provided by the former but not the latter explaining its disproportionate share of PMs) it is not surprising Oxford is overrepresented in election winning MPs (though Chamberlain went to Birmingham and Brown Edinburgh albeit neither won an election). However I don't see why an election winning non-Oxbridge PM would be a defeat for the elite for example if an Eton and Bristol educated City Lawyer beat a comprehensive and Oxford educated social worker would that be a defeat for the elite? I think not.

Oxbridge conspiracy theorists would point to the storms of sneering abuse that have greeted non-Oxford leaders such as Kinnock, Major and Brown; not to mention Jeremy Corbyn. And a quick glance at wikipedia tells me Andrea Leadsom was a Warwick graduate up against Oxford's Theresa May.

True though Major beat the Etonian and Oxford Hurd and the Shrewsbury and Oxford Heseltine. Churchill was non Oxbridge too but he was an old Harrovian which meant he still had half a foot in the door. The snobbiest of the elite see you as a full member of the club if you went to public school and Oxbridge, half a member of the club if you went to either and not in the club if you went to neither

Roger said:

SandyRentool said:

Clearly it is time for an OU PPE wonk to have a go at being PM, rather than an Oxford PPE wonk.

Oh, and why is it that Oxbridge types 'read' their degree subject, when everyone else 'did' their degree subject?

Because you'd sound ridiculous on University Challenge

I actually deliberately got my subject wrong on University Challenge in order to sound like a pompous git.

2025. Might be Farron if he becomes leader of the opposition in 2020. Newcastle University.

MaxPB said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Everyone says the Euro is too weak for Germany but if that was the case it should be having rabid inflation. Inflation does not seem to be a major German problem. So is the Euro too weak for Germany or is it just right for them and wrong for everyone else?

German CPI is 1.7% vs 1.1% for the EMU, excluding the Germany EMU inflation would be around 0.6%. The monetary policy of the ECB is not suitable for Germany and their economy is showing signs of overheating.

Is the monetary policy of the BoE suitable for the U.K., and if not, what's their excuse?

TheWhiteRabbit said:

Roger said:

SandyRentool said:

Clearly it is time for an OU PPE wonk to have a go at being PM, rather than an Oxford PPE wonk.

Oh, and why is it that Oxbridge types 'read' their degree subject, when everyone else 'did' their degree subject?

Because you'd sound ridiculous on University Challenge

I actually deliberately got my subject wrong on University Challenge in order to sound like a pompous git.

"Reading the Beano"?

Mr. Rentool, sounds like something Roger the Dodger would do.

PlatoSaid said:

TheWhiteRabbit said:

Roger said:

SandyRentool said:

Clearly it is time for an OU PPE wonk to have a go at being PM, rather than an Oxford PPE wonk.

Oh, and why is it that Oxbridge types 'read' their degree subject, when everyone else 'did' their degree subject?

Because you'd sound ridiculous on University Challenge

I actually deliberately got my subject wrong on University Challenge in order to sound like a pompous git.

Just kidding, I changed it to *avoid* sounding like a pompous git.

But to be honest I could have made something up, you are just expected to say something.

TheWhiteRabbit said:

Roger said:

SandyRentool said:

Clearly it is time for an OU PPE wonk to have a go at being PM, rather than an Oxford PPE wonk.

Oh, and why is it that Oxbridge types 'read' their degree subject, when everyone else 'did' their degree subject?

Because you'd sound ridiculous on University Challenge

I actually deliberately got my subject wrong on University Challenge in order to sound like a pompous git.

You certainly know your stuff on wills and estate

SandyRentool said:

Clearly it is time for an OU PPE wonk to have a go at being PM, rather than an Oxford PPE wonk.

Oh, and why is it that Oxbridge types 'read' their degree subject, when everyone else 'did' their degree subject?

We used both terms at Durham, depending on who you were speaking with.

HYUFD said:

Pulpstar said:

The Oxford (With very occasional Cambridge and a couple of Edinburgh/Glasgow or none) sequence continues right back to Sir Robert Walpole.

Previous to that it seems the most important non royal position was the Lord High Treasurer, which seems to have been related to the church in the early days - (Various Bishops seemed to get the position, the first of which was Nigel of Ely...).

Before that position was created the key figure I suppose was the Archbishop of Canterbury, and that gets you back to St Augustine in ~ 600.

Given Oxford, Cambridge, St Andrew's, Aberdeen, Edinburgh and Glasgow were the only universities in the UK until Durham was founded in 1832 that is not surprising

yes and no. You forget that until 20th century, Ireland was part of the UK. Trinity, Dublin was founded in 1592.

Hard to believe the Telegraph is doing so badly when they cover stories like this

https://twitter.com/Telegraph/status/816987770405130240

david_herdson said:

HYUFD said:

Pulpstar said:

The Oxford (With very occasional Cambridge and a couple of Edinburgh/Glasgow or none) sequence continues right back to Sir Robert Walpole.

Previous to that it seems the most important non royal position was the Lord High Treasurer, which seems to have been related to the church in the early days - (Various Bishops seemed to get the position, the first of which was Nigel of Ely...).

Before that position was created the key figure I suppose was the Archbishop of Canterbury, and that gets you back to St Augustine in ~ 600.

Given Oxford, Cambridge, St Andrew's, Aberdeen, Edinburgh and Glasgow were the only universities in the UK until Durham was founded in 1832 that is not surprising

Dublin was operating before 1832.

Edit - I see MrsB got in there first with that one.

only because my husband went there (a long time ago) and my daughter has just received her LLM from there. The ceremony was conducted entirely in Latin. They have been doing it the same way since the 17th century apparently.

Too busy following a promotion to follow threads during the day much these days, but can I go back to the previous thread a moment?

The cracks are now showing in the Corbyn cult - and entertainingly it was Lenin McClusky who gave the worship room wall a good kicking to widen the cracks. In the party we have a rule that people can't join and vote in selection of candidates so as to stop the electorate being stuffed with supporters for an individual. Momentum have led a public call for people to join Unite to vote for Lenin because he supports Corbyn - so doing to a Labour Party affiliate something banned in the actual party.

So how funny was it to see Lenin - as the deadline for votes closes - then say "we'll need to dump Corbyn if things don't improve. Because despite the fact that headbanging Corbyn worshippers insist that all polls are rigged to the Tories and that He will lead us to a majority of 4,000 seats, the unions aren't daft. And know that getting the Tories out is more important than sticking to ideology.

Starmer is a good bet. Sane, professional, not a politician. And demolishing the Tories over their plans for Brexit (cf stage 2 of the Underpants gnomes) whilst Corbyn is literally invisible. Not a peep from Jezbollah over the ambassador. The question will be how the membership react when Corbyn resigns. They can't vote him in again, so what they do is hard to predict.

I still think it could be Diane Abbott. Someone who has literally encircled the Corbyn erm "project", a woman, BAME, and from that London so not an ignorant racist like all Labour voters are up north apparently, She ticks all the boxes. OK not the electable box but who cares about that when you have foaming dog fever as most post-15 Labour members do.

UK's lack of negotiating experience may lead to 'very hard Brexit'

Norwegian prime minister Erna Solberg says long membership of EU has left Britain without key skills for successful trade talks

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jan/05/uks-lack-of-negotiating-experience-may-lead-to-very-hard-brexit?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

TheScreamingEagles said:

UK's lack of negotiating experience may lead to 'very hard Brexit'

Norwegian prime minister Erna Solberg says long membership of EU has left Britain without key skills for successful trade talks

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jan/05/uks-lack-of-negotiating-experience-may-lead-to-very-hard-brexit?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

It's ok, New Zealand has offered us their trade negotiators. They have the added benefit of not being European like us so can be trusted not to go native.

RochdalePioneers said:

Too busy following a promotion to follow threads during the day much these days, but can I go back to the previous thread a moment?

The cracks are now showing in the Corbyn cult - and entertainingly it was Lenin McClusky who gave the worship room wall a good kicking to widen the cracks. In the party we have a rule that people can't join and vote in selection of candidates so as to stop the electorate being stuffed with supporters for an individual. Momentum have led a public call for people to join Unite to vote for Lenin because he supports Corbyn - so doing to a Labour Party affiliate something banned in the actual party.

So how funny was it to see Lenin - as the deadline for votes closes - then say "we'll need to dump Corbyn if things don't improve. Because despite the fact that headbanging Corbyn worshippers insist that all polls are rigged to the Tories and that He will lead us to a majority of 4,000 seats, the unions aren't daft. And know that getting the Tories out is more important than sticking to ideology.

Starmer is a good bet. Sane, professional, not a politician. And demolishing the Tories over their plans for Brexit (cf stage 2 of the Underpants gnomes) whilst Corbyn is literally invisible. Not a peep from Jezbollah over the ambassador. The question will be how the membership react when Corbyn resigns. They can't vote him in again, so what they do is hard to predict.

I still think it could be Diane Abbott. Someone who has literally encircled the Corbyn erm "project", a woman, BAME, and from that London so not an ignorant racist like all Labour voters are up north apparently, She ticks all the boxes. OK not the electable box but who cares about that when you have foaming dog fever as most post-15 Labour members do.

Abbot as LOTO? Oh, Ambassador stop it, you are spoiling us!!

TheScreamingEagles said:

UK's lack of negotiating experience may lead to 'very hard Brexit'

Norwegian prime minister Erna Solberg says long membership of EU has left Britain without key skills for successful trade talks

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jan/05/uks-lack-of-negotiating-experience-may-lead-to-very-hard-brexit?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

may, could, might......

and you wonder why people dont believe politicians

RochdalePioneers said:

Too busy following a promotion to follow threads during the day much these days, but can I go back to the previous thread a moment?

The cracks are now showing in the Corbyn cult - and entertainingly it was Lenin McClusky who gave the worship room wall a good kicking to widen the cracks. In the party we have a rule that people can't join and vote in selection of candidates so as to stop the electorate being stuffed with supporters for an individual. Momentum have led a public call for people to join Unite to vote for Lenin because he supports Corbyn - so doing to a Labour Party affiliate something banned in the actual party.

So how funny was it to see Lenin - as the deadline for votes closes - then say "we'll need to dump Corbyn if things don't improve. Because despite the fact that headbanging Corbyn worshippers insist that all polls are rigged to the Tories and that He will lead us to a majority of 4,000 seats, the unions aren't daft. And know that getting the Tories out is more important than sticking to ideology.

Starmer is a good bet. Sane, professional, not a politician. And demolishing the Tories over their plans for Brexit (cf stage 2 of the Underpants gnomes) whilst Corbyn is literally invisible. Not a peep from Jezbollah over the ambassador. The question will be how the membership react when Corbyn resigns. They can't vote him in again, so what they do is hard to predict.

I still think it could be Diane Abbott. Someone who has literally encircled the Corbyn erm "project", a woman, BAME, and from that London so not an ignorant racist like all Labour voters are up north apparently, She ticks all the boxes. OK not the electable box but who cares about that when you have foaming dog fever as most post-15 Labour members do.

Congratulations, Mr Pioneer, on your promotion.

tlg86 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

For those on twitter, this is a fantastic account to follow.

https://twitter.com/newdawn1997

MotD - Highlights of Coventry City v Woking (though the game wasn't played until 25 January). Thommo in the last minute!

https://twitter.com/newdawn1997/status/816984522277453824

Hah, just been sending you a message about football on the TV.

HYUFD said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

UK's lack of negotiating experience may lead to 'very hard Brexit'

Norwegian prime minister Erna Solberg says long membership of EU has left Britain without key skills for successful trade talks

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jan/05/uks-lack-of-negotiating-experience-may-lead-to-very-hard-brexit?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Hard Brexit depends on whether May will compromise at all on free movement or EU budget contributions, the best negotiators in the world would make no difference if there is no compromise on those issues

The real negotiation will be within her party and within the UK.

We took back control, but forgot to specify a dial and instead just have an on-off switch.

rottenborough said:

Abbot as LOTO? Oh, Ambassador stop it, you are spoiling us!!

Its a ridiculous suggestion. But the people with the vote ARE ridiculous. And she ticks all the boxes...

HYUFD said:

MrsB said:

HYUFD said:

Pulpstar said:

The Oxford (With very occasional Cambridge and a couple of Edinburgh/Glasgow or none) sequence continues right back to Sir Robert Walpole.

Previous to that it seems the most important non royal position was the Lord High Treasurer, which seems to have been related to the church in the early days - (Various Bishops seemed to get the position, the first of which was Nigel of Ely...).

Before that position was created the key figure I suppose was the Archbishop of Canterbury, and that gets you back to St Augustine in ~ 600.

Given Oxford, Cambridge, St Andrew's, Aberdeen, Edinburgh and Glasgow were the only universities in the UK until Durham was founded in 1832 that is not surprising

yes and no. You forget that until 20th century, Ireland was part of the UK. Trinity, Dublin was founded in 1592.

OK, add Trinity too, still less than ten universities before 1832 though

More info on degrees: Baldwin was a Cambridge man. Bonar Law didn't go to uni.

HYUFD said:

MrsB said:

HYUFD said:

Pulpstar said:

The Oxford (With very occasional Cambridge and a couple of Edinburgh/Glasgow or none) sequence continues right back to Sir Robert Walpole.

Previous to that it seems the most important non royal position was the Lord High Treasurer, which seems to have been related to the church in the early days - (Various Bishops seemed to get the position, the first of which was Nigel of Ely...).

Before that position was created the key figure I suppose was the Archbishop of Canterbury, and that gets you back to St Augustine in ~ 600.

Given Oxford, Cambridge, St Andrew's, Aberdeen, Edinburgh and Glasgow were the only universities in the UK until Durham was founded in 1832 that is not surprising

yes and no. You forget that until 20th century, Ireland was part of the UK. Trinity, Dublin was founded in 1592.

OK, add Trinity too, still less than ten universities before 1832 though

LESS THAN TEN UNIVERSITIES?? LESS THAN TEN UNIVERSITIES??!!!

FEWER than ten universities.

Gah!

HYUFD said:

MrsB said:

HYUFD said:

Pulpstar said:

The Oxford (With very occasional Cambridge and a couple of Edinburgh/Glasgow or none) sequence continues right back to Sir Robert Walpole.

Previous to that it seems the most important non royal position was the Lord High Treasurer, which seems to have been related to the church in the early days - (Various Bishops seemed to get the position, the first of which was Nigel of Ely...).

Before that position was created the key figure I suppose was the Archbishop of Canterbury, and that gets you back to St Augustine in ~ 600.

Given Oxford, Cambridge, St Andrew's, Aberdeen, Edinburgh and Glasgow were the only universities in the UK until Durham was founded in 1832 that is not surprising

yes and no. You forget that until 20th century, Ireland was part of the UK. Trinity, Dublin was founded in 1592.

OK, add Trinity too, still less than ten universities before 1832 though

FEWER

Bugger, Topping got there before me.

HYUFD said:

matt said:

HYUFD said:

Pulpstar said:

The Oxford (With very occasional Cambridge and a couple of Edinburgh/Glasgow or none) sequence continues right back to Sir Robert Walpole.

Previous to that it seems the most important non royal position was the Lord High Treasurer, which seems to have been related to the church in the early days - (Various Bishops seemed to get the position, the first of which was Nigel of Ely...).

Before that position was created the key figure I suppose was the Archbishop of Canterbury, and that gets you back to St Augustine in ~ 600.

Given Oxford, Cambridge, St Andrew's, Aberdeen, Edinburgh and Glasgow were the only universities in the UK until Durham was founded in 1832 that is not surprising

You're incorrect. I'd check again if I were you.

Edit: someone's noted TCD but you might also look at London.

UCL was also early nineteenth century

You're moving towards accuracy.

I am not exactly a revolutionary socialist but reading a table like that could make you one, it really could.

matt said:

HYUFD said:

matt said:

HYUFD said:

Pulpstar said:

The Oxford (With very occasional Cambridge and a couple of Edinburgh/Glasgow or none) sequence continues right back to Sir Robert Walpole.

Previous to that it seems the most important non royal position was the Lord High Treasurer, which seems to have been related to the church in the early days - (Various Bishops seemed to get the position, the first of which was Nigel of Ely...).

Before that position was created the key figure I suppose was the Archbishop of Canterbury, and that gets you back to St Augustine in ~ 600.

Given Oxford, Cambridge, St Andrew's, Aberdeen, Edinburgh and Glasgow were the only universities in the UK until Durham was founded in 1832 that is not surprising

You're incorrect. I'd check again if I were you.

Edit: someone's noted TCD but you might also look at London.

UCL was also early nineteenth century

You're moving towards accuracy.

The first PM was in 1721

david_herdson said:

Sandpit said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Too busy following a promotion to follow threads during the day much these days, but can I go back to the previous thread a moment?

The cracks are now showing in the Corbyn cult - and entertainingly it was Lenin McClusky who gave the worship room wall a good kicking to widen the cracks. In the party we have a rule that people can't join and vote in selection of candidates so as to stop the electorate being stuffed with supporters for an individual. Momentum have led a public call for people to join Unite to vote for Lenin because he supports Corbyn - so doing to a Labour Party affiliate something banned in the actual party.

So how funny was it to see Lenin - as the deadline for votes closes - then say "we'll need to dump Corbyn if things don't improve. Because despite the fact that headbanging Corbyn worshippers insist that all polls are rigged to the Tories and that He will lead us to a majority of 4,000 seats, the unions aren't daft. And know that getting the Tories out is more important than sticking to ideology.

Starmer is a good bet. Sane, professional, not a politician. And demolishing the Tories over their plans for Brexit (cf stage 2 of the Underpants gnomes) whilst Corbyn is literally invisible. Not a peep from Jezbollah over the ambassador. The question will be how the membership react when Corbyn resigns. They can't vote him in again, so what they do is hard to predict.

I still think it could be Diane Abbott. Someone who has literally encircled the Corbyn erm "project", a woman, BAME, and from that London so not an ignorant racist like all Labour voters are up north apparently, She ticks all the boxes. OK not the electable box but who cares about that when you have foaming dog fever as most post-15 Labour members do.

Well done on the promotion!

Diane Abbott. Please, PLEASE can it be Diane Abbott, the most ignorant racist of the lot of them. She and McIRA are the only two who could possibly see Labour's ratings go down from Corbyn.

My guess would be that McDonnell would improve Labour's ratings: he dresses better than Corbyn.

He wears a better suit than Corbyn, but also has a better line in supporting terrorists than Corbyn. Tough one to call, but not sure Mrs May would be too bothered...

TheScreamingEagles said:

DecrepitJohnL said:

Sandpit said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Too busy following a promotion to follow threads during the day much these days, but can I go back to the previous thread a moment?

The cracks are now showing in the Corbyn cult - and entertainingly it was Lenin McClusky who gave the worship room wall a good kicking to widen the cracks. In the party we have a rule that people can't join and vote in selection of candidates so as to stop the electorate being stuffed with supporters for an individual. Momentum have led a public call for people to join Unite to vote for Lenin because he supports Corbyn - so doing to a Labour Party affiliate something banned in the actual party.

So how funny was it to see Lenin - as the deadline for votes closes - then say "we'll need to dump Corbyn if things don't improve. Because despite the fact that headbanging Corbyn worshippers insist that all polls are rigged to the Tories and that He will lead us to a majority of 4,000 seats, the unions aren't daft. And know that getting the Tories out is more important than sticking to ideology.

Starmer is a good bet. Sane, professional, not a politician. And demolishing the Tories over their plans for Brexit (cf stage 2 of the Underpants gnomes) whilst Corbyn is literally invisible. Not a peep from Jezbollah over the ambassador. The question will be how the membership react when Corbyn resigns. They can't vote him in again, so what they do is hard to predict.

I still think it could be Diane Abbott. Someone who has literally encircled the Corbyn erm "project", a woman, BAME, and from that London so not an ignorant racist like all Labour voters are up north apparently, She ticks all the boxes. OK not the electable box but who cares about that when you have foaming dog fever as most post-15 Labour members do.

Well done on the promotion!

Diane Abbott. Please, PLEASE can it be Diane Abbott, the most ignorant racist of the lot of them. She and McIRA are the only two who could possibly see Labour's ratings go down from Corbyn.

Yes but Diane Abbott went to Cambridge, not Oxford. Have you even read the thread header?

But she did read History, having a deep understanding of history ensures a person can go far in life.

She must have skipped the classes where they looked at the history of Stalin and the Soviet Union.

Ishmael_Z said:

Of course if we end up a with worse-than-EFTA deal with the EU, we can expect to hear:

"Lord Nelson, Lord Beaverbrook, Sir Winston Churchill, Sir Anthony Eden, Clement Attlee, Henry Cooper, Lady Diana, vi har slått dem alle sammen, vi har slått dem alle sammen! (we have beaten them all, we have beaten them all!). Maggie Thatcher, can you hear me? Maggie Thatcher ... your boys took a hell of a beating! Your boys took a hell of a beating!"

Until the next terrorist attack on the continent and most of Albania moves to France and Germany!

TheScreamingEagles said:

On topic, you could argue the greatest Prime Minister we never had went to Cambridge.

Ken Clarke.

A table of some general election losers makes bad reading for Oxford.

Oxford: Miliband, Hague, Callaghan (applied) Wilson (twice) Heath (three times)

Cambridge: Howard

Others: Brown, Kinnock,

NG: Major

So Oxford leads the losers table.

why Oxford Uni is allowed to hog valuable land when we could use it for something useful like expanding the BMW plant is baffling

rottenborough said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

DecrepitJohnL said:

Sandpit said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Too busy following a promotion to follow threads during the day much these days, but can I go back to the previous thread a moment?

The cracks are now showing in the Corbyn cult - and entertainingly it was Lenin McClusky who gave the worship room wall a good kicking to widen the cracks. In the party we have a rule that people can't join and vote in selection of candidates so as to stop the electorate being stuffed with supporters for an individual. Momentum have led a public call for people to join Unite to vote for Lenin because he supports Corbyn - so doing to a Labour Party affiliate something banned in the actual party.

So how funny was it to see Lenin - as the deadline for votes closes - then say "we'll need to dump Corbyn if things don't improve. Because despite the fact that headbanging Corbyn worshippers insist that all polls are rigged to the Tories and that He will lead us to a majority of 4,000 seats, the unions aren't daft. And know that getting the Tories out is more important than sticking to ideology.

Starmer is a good bet. Sane, professional, not a politician. And demolishing the Tories over their plans for Brexit (cf stage 2 of the Underpants gnomes) whilst Corbyn is literally invisible. Not a peep from Jezbollah over the ambassador. The question will be how the membership react when Corbyn resigns. They can't vote him in again, so what they do is hard to predict.

I still think it could be Diane Abbott. Someone who has literally encircled the Corbyn erm "project", a woman, BAME, and from that London so not an ignorant racist like all Labour voters are up north apparently, She ticks all the boxes. OK not the electable box but who cares about that when you have foaming dog fever as most post-15 Labour members do.

Well done on the promotion!

Diane Abbott. Please, PLEASE can it be Diane Abbott, the most ignorant racist of the lot of them. She and McIRA are the only two who could possibly see Labour's ratings go down from Corbyn.

Yes but Diane Abbott went to Cambridge, not Oxford. Have you even read the thread header?

But she did read History, having a deep understanding of history ensures a person can go far in life.

She must have skipped the classes where they looked at the history of Stalin and the Soviet Union.

And Chairman Mao if you saw her performance on TW that time.

Congratulations, Mr. Pioneer.

Richard_Tyndall said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

On topic, you could argue the greatest Prime Minister we never had went to Cambridge.

Ken Clarke.

A table of some general election losers makes bad reading for Oxford.

Oxford: Miliband, Hague, Callaghan (applied) Wilson (twice) Heath

Cambridge: Howard

Others: Brown, Kinnock,

NG: Major

So Oxford leads the losers table.

Ken Clarke would have been an atrocious PM. He might even have vied with Heath for the title of worst post war PM.

William Joyce would have made a better PM than Clarke.

HYUFD said:

matt said:

HYUFD said:

matt said:

HYUFD said:

Pulpstar said:

The Oxford (With very occasional Cambridge and a couple of Edinburgh/Glasgow or none) sequence continues right back to Sir Robert Walpole.

Previous to that it seems the most important non royal position was the Lord High Treasurer, which seems to have been related to the church in the early days - (Various Bishops seemed to get the position, the first of which was Nigel of Ely...).

Before that position was created the key figure I suppose was the Archbishop of Canterbury, and that gets you back to St Augustine in ~ 600.

Given Oxford, Cambridge, St Andrew's, Aberdeen, Edinburgh and Glasgow were the only universities in the UK until Durham was founded in 1832 that is not surprising

You're incorrect. I'd check again if I were you.

Edit: someone's noted TCD but you might also look at London.

UCL was also early nineteenth century

You're moving towards accuracy.

The first PM was in 1721

Debatable.

F1: technical chap who wrote that piece I linked to earlier agrees with me that the prime sufferer of Ferrari's query will not be Mercedes, but Red Bull. Seems FRIC and replacements matter most when you have an outrageous rake angle and three bucketloads of drag.

david_herdson said:

HYUFD said:

DecrepitJohnL said:

HYUFD said:

Given the best universities in the country are Oxford and Cambridge (with the PPE course provided by the former but not the latter explaining its disproportionate share of PMs) it is not surprising Oxford is overrepresented in election winning MPs (though Chamberlain went to Birmingham and Brown Edinburgh albeit neither won an election). However I don't see why an election winning non-Oxbridge PM would be a defeat for the elite for example if an Eton and Bristol educated City Lawyer beat a comprehensive and Oxford educated social worker would that be a defeat for the elite? I think not.

Oxbridge conspiracy theorists would point to the storms of sneering abuse that have greeted non-Oxford leaders such as Kinnock, Major and Brown; not to mention Jeremy Corbyn. And a quick glance at wikipedia tells me Andrea Leadsom was a Warwick graduate up against Oxford's Theresa May.

True though Major beat the Etonian and Oxford Hurd and the Shrewsbury and Oxford Heseltine. Churchill was non Oxbridge too but he was an old Harrovian which meant he still had half a foot in the door. The snobbiest of the elite see you as a full member of the club if you went to public school and Oxbridge, half a member of the club if you went to either and not in the club if you went to neither

In Churchill's case, being the grandson of a duke and the son of a Chancellor probably meant that he had more than half a foot in the door.

I don't think Randolph Churchill was a popular character with 'The Elite',. WLSC was a populist or celebrity politician who rode on the back of his 'war exploits' into the Commons.

Thinking of University Challenge, Oxford and Cambridge ought to have primaries, to pick which team they want to send through to the competition. Or else rebrand the programme "Oxbridge College Challenge".