politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The winners under First Past The Post should rigidly adhere to
politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The winners under First Past The Post should rigidly adhere to election spending laws
The chart above is self-explanatory and illustrates clearly how well the electoral system treated the Tories at the last election and how hard it was on the smaller parties particularly UKIP.
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First past the post is past its sell by date.0
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The same is true of the losers.
It is apparent that all of our political parties regard inconvenient laws as something to be circumvented. If they want to be treated with respect, politicians should do as the rest of us are expected to do and obey the law.
If they think the laws are stupid, they should campaign accordingly, not seek to pull the wool over the eyes of the rest of us.0 -
(Would have been the first to comment, but I had to re-register - which, after a gap of about 10 years, is perhaps to be expected.)0
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Welcome back @augustus_carp.The PB community has missed you0
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FWIW, I don't think overspending is as big a vice as the various other forms of fraudulent behaviour that pollute elections today. Impersonation is rife, the electoral roll is beyond a joke and the postal vote system is still a mechanism designed to allow the better organised parties to steal the result. Money merely facilitates those activities more easily, it doesn't create the circumstances in which they take place.
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It would be nice to think that parties could put aside narrow self-interest to agree a post-Brexit constitutional convention in which all these issues, and many more, are discussed maturely. But it won't happen.0
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Campaign spending limits are past their sell by date0
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Mike or @rcs1000 etc could it be fixed so that writing a message and then pressing tab doesn't go to Sign Out rather than Post Comment? Very frustrating.0
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Which is thought to be the more important in winning elections these days - the Air War or the Ground War? That might have a bearing on the (perceived?) problems of over-expenditure.0
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Neither, targeting (and profiling) the voters is the holy grail these days.augustus_carp said:Which is thought to be the more important in winning elections these days - the Air War or the Ground War? That might have a bearing on the (perceived?) problems of over-expenditure.
And welcome back old bean!0 -
The most elegant solution I've seen suggested on spending limit is to have a national total and it is up to the parties on how and where they spend it.
Constituency spending limits are an anachronism in the digital and quasi Presidential age.0 -
The current maximum spends or the concept of limits at all?Philip_Thompson said:Campaign spending limits are past their sell by date
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Meh. I would abolish spending limits for elections altogether.0
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That's so sweet.SouthamObserver said:It would be nice to think that parties could put aside narrow self-interest to agree a post-Brexit constitutional convention in which all these issues, and many more, are discussed maturely. But it won't happen.
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Good afternoon, everyone.
Augustus, Lord of Carp, it hasn't been that long. Welcome back.0 -
So should the losers.0
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When Blair won his 179 maj in 1997 .He should have kept his promise to Roy Jenkins and introduce a new voting system namely PR.At that time it would have been seen as an honourable thing to do,not out of self interest after getting such a majority on 43%.0
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You have to have a superb ground game. IOS kept telling us how good the labour ground game was and he was proved absolutely ....... Errr... Wrongaugustus_carp said:Which is thought to be the more important in winning elections these days - the Air War or the Ground War? That might have a bearing on the (perceived?) problems of over-expenditure.
I am Very much more concerned in regard to voter fraud than a few quid over the top but rules is rules and they should be followed I guess.
What would the graphs look like during Tony "I'm just a straight kind of guy" Blairs landslides.?
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Philip Thompson [4.00pm]
Campaign spending limits are past their sell by date
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Why not just put the Government up for sale to the highest bidder? And/or criminalise poverty? (This also applies to David L's comment)0 -
True.AlastairMeeks said:The same is true of the losers.
It is apparent that all of our political parties regard inconvenient laws as something to be circumvented. If they want to be treated with respect, politicians should do as the rest of us are expected to do and obey the law.
If they think the laws are stupid, they should campaign accordingly, not seek to pull the wool over the eyes of the rest of us.
The current campaign spending laws were archaic a way back; they are now ridiculous (and demonstrably held in contempt by the major parties). That they should continue to break the law on a regular basis rather than reforming it is strange.
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Politicalbetting.com is just a club for people to get together, talk and have a good time.0
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@ DavidL "Meh. I would abolish spending limits for elections altogether."
I misread that as "I would abolish elections altogether" and thought "How Trumpian of you."
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Required reading for anyone who thinks we'd be better off if the government was more 'in control' of immigration. 6 years of Theresa May doesn't seem to have left the Home Office in any better shape than it was before.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/dec/28/dutch-woman-with-two-british-children-told-to-leave-uk-after-24-years?CMP=fb_gu0 -
Mr. Glenn, decline in the number of prison officers occurred under her watch too.0
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Not her fault. Prisons are under the control of the Justice Secretary, not the Home SecretaryMorris_Dancer said:Mr. Glenn, decline in the number of prison officers occurred under her watch too.
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Mr. Eagles, my mistake.0
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Is 'strumentalised' a word? I hope so.williamglenn said:0 -
Like classical history, I'm quite happy to educate you on the criminal justice system, and in particular prisons/NOMSMorris_Dancer said:Mr. Eagles, my mistake.
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It should also be illegal to publish literature which is factually incorrect e.g. "X can't win here".
It might be improbable that X will win, it might be that candidate Y or Mr Z believes that X can't win, but to make a statement which is provably untrue ought to be illegal.0 -
Yes I love that! It's a garbled translation of the Italian for 'instrumentalised' but it should become a neologism.Theuniondivvie said:
Is 'strumentalised' a word? I hope so.williamglenn said:0 -
Blair's mistake for splitting the two in the first place...Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Eagles, my mistake.
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Seconded!MikeSmithson said:Welcome back @augustus_carp.The PB community has missed you
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Do keep up, TSE. Big data was so last year. In these post-Brexit, post-Trumpian times, it is a flexible approach to the truth and personal abuse on Twitter that wins elections.TheScreamingEagles said:
Neither, targeting (and profiling) the voters is the holy grail these days.augustus_carp said:Which is thought to be the more important in winning elections these days - the Air War or the Ground War? That might have a bearing on the (perceived?) problems of over-expenditure.
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One of the best reflections of my own mindset that I have seen in the news. Helena Morrissey as reported in the Bellylaugh:
"We have had people before flexing their muscles, as it were, and saying they're out of here and then realising, actually, London is the place to be and we have a huge amount going for us that would be incredibly difficult to replicate anywhere else.
"We do have to have a different mindset, I think. We do have to embrace the opportunities, we have to look forwards, not at what we might have lost, and I think that's something that isn't quite there yet."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/12/28/business-chiefs-back-staying-post-brexit-britain/0 -
The Electoral Commission and legislators have been sleeping on the job on this, and lack of clarity helps nobody in the end.
The rules are built around fairly clear distinctions in spending - the battle bus and venue hire for the manifesto launch are national, the election address local etc. But modern campaigns, either deliberately or just because methods have changed, leave it very unclear. Is a letter from Cameron (at the time) to a voter in Torbay that doesn't mention the local candidate a local expense? I'd say yes because who else do you want the voter to support but the local Tory representative... but I appreciate there's at least some debate. And what of a battle bus ferrying large numbers of volunteers rather than the party leader and entourage? Or a targeted social media campaign focusing on employees of an employer which happens to be huge in Luton North?
Either the Electoral Commission needs to engage much more in what a modern election looks like and draw up very clear guidance (rather than the current "use your best honest judgement" nonsense), or they need to shift to a purely national limit with no distinction between spending categories in the campaign period, and a reasonably simple formula (£x multiplied by number of candidates, possibly plus y pence multiplied by votes at last election, for example).0 -
Mr. Eagles, letting you correct me once is my festive gift to you.
Mr. Quidder, hard to believe Blair partook in constitutional buggery.0 -
Fake "newspapers" should be illegal and election publications should state clearly in large font at the top and bottom of each page which party the election literature is for.0
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The Electoral Commission also needs to get a grip on social media, perhaps by applying a notional cost to a tweet. If we are to have restrictions on what can be broadcast, they must be extended to Youtube, and so on.SirNorfolkPassmore said:The Electoral Commission and legislators have been sleeping on the job on this, and lack of clarity helps nobody in the end.
The rules are built around fairly clear distinctions in spending - the battle bus and venue hire for the manifesto launch are national, the election address local etc. But modern campaigns, either deliberately or just because methods have changed, leave it very unclear. Is a letter from Cameron (at the time) to a voter in Torbay that doesn't mention the local candidate a local expense? I'd say yes because who else do you want the voter to support but the local Tory representative... but I appreciate there's at least some debate. And what of a battle bus ferrying large numbers of volunteers rather than the party leader and entourage? Or a targeted social media campaign focusing on employees of an employer which happens to be huge in Luton North?
Either the Electoral Commission needs to engage much more in what a modern election looks like and draw up very clear guidance (rather than the current "use your best honest judgement" nonsense), or they need to shift to a purely national limit with no distinction between spending categories in the campaign period, and a reasonably simple formula (£x multiplied by number of candidates, possibly plus y pence multiplied by votes at last election, for example).0 -
Any more word on the cause of the Sochi crash?Y0kel said:Assange has been shilling for the the lads at Yasenevo for ages.
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Shocking, isn't it?Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Eagles, letting you correct me once is my festive gift to you.
Mr. Quidder, hard to believe Blair partook in constitutional buggery.0 -
Massively increasing the major parties' edge over the rest, because they could concentrate everythin on the marginals. What are the advantages of that?TheScreamingEagles said:The most elegant solution I've seen suggested on spending limit is to have a national total and it is up to the parties on how and where they spend it.
Constituency spending limits are an anachronism in the digital and quasi Presidential age.0 -
Human error leading to technical failure or just a plain tech issue based on all reports but there is still mystery.
Early reports of the flash in the sky are said to be discounted.
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Targeted social media campaigns are surely quite cheap to run. Might be labour intensive in harvesting the accounts, but it’s not as though a group of people have to sit there night after night pressing buttons.SirNorfolkPassmore said:The Electoral Commission and legislators have been sleeping on the job on this, and lack of clarity helps nobody in the end.
The rules are built around fairly clear distinctions in spending - the battle bus and venue hire for the manifesto launch are national, the election address local etc. But modern campaigns, either deliberately or just because methods have changed, leave it very unclear. Is a letter from Cameron (at the time) to a voter in Torbay that doesn't mention the local candidate a local expense? I'd say yes because who else do you want the voter to support but the local Tory representative... but I appreciate there's at least some debate. And what of a battle bus ferrying large numbers of volunteers rather than the party leader and entourage? Or a targeted social media campaign focusing on employees of an employer which happens to be huge in Luton North?
Either the Electoral Commission needs to engage much more in what a modern election looks like and draw up very clear guidance (rather than the current "use your best honest judgement" nonsense), or they need to shift to a purely national limit with no distinction between spending categories in the campaign period, and a reasonably simple formula (£x multiplied by number of candidates, possibly plus y pence multiplied by votes at last election, for example).0 -
Err - I seem to recall the Lib Dems getting maximum fines for breaching spending limits?
Labour as well as the tories also found guilty of breaches of the spending rules.
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You recall incorrectly.Floater said:Err - I seem to recall the Lib Dems getting maximum fines for breaching spending limits?
Labour as well as the tories also found guilty of breaches of the spending rules.
The Lib Dem fines were for not declaring all the costs on the original returns on time, not for breaching the spending limits.0 -
Because the current rules have huge flaws with them.Ishmael_Z said:
Massively increasing the major parties' edge over the rest, because they could concentrate everythin on the marginals. What are the advantages of that?TheScreamingEagles said:The most elegant solution I've seen suggested on spending limit is to have a national total and it is up to the parties on how and where they spend it.
Constituency spending limits are an anachronism in the digital and quasi Presidential age.0 -
How do you define "free resources"? If wealthy or just keen activists campaign in an "away" constituency and don't charge for their travel or subsistence, surely as much is being spent on the campaign by the individual as it would if they were being paid expenses by the party. Similarly, if I go canvassing, any petrol I use and my lunch should be reckoned a contribution to the campaign, whether it's incurred personally by me or reimbursed by the party0
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"First past the post is past its sell by date." says Jonathan
Was it a problem when FPP worked in Labours party Jon?
How about vote fraud, why does Labour have a problem with a clamp down?
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Sadly the thread title seems to suggest it's ok for losers to break the law. What is it with Liberals and hypocrisy?0
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"The Electoral Commission also needs to get a grip on social media, perhaps by applying a notional cost to a tweet. If we are to have restrictions on what can be broadcast, they must be extended to Youtube, and so on."
I don't agree with this, John. Ultimately, the point of the expenses limit is to avoid elections being won by deep pockets.
If you tweet something reach isn't really a function of pocket depth (aside from promoted posts which have an actual cost - notional cost isn't the point here). So if a party organises supporters to post X on private accounts, then I don't see this as very different from getting canvassers or delivers out working.
The analogy with broadcast isn't sound either. The broadcast restrictions are because there was a wish (rightly or wrongly) to allow a space in which the public could be reasonably confident there is a semblance of balance and parity of coverage. I know some on here disagree it's achieved... but I do think voters watch TV and listen to radio expecting some balance in election coverage, whereas they don't (and nor should they) in the press, or on YouTube, or on bits of paper stuffed through their letterbox.
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Required reading?.......in the Guardian?..... Mmmmmmm.....williamglenn said:Required reading for anyone who thinks we'd be better off if the government was more 'in control' of immigration. 6 years of Theresa May doesn't seem to have left the Home Office in any better shape than it was before.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/dec/28/dutch-woman-with-two-british-children-told-to-leave-uk-after-24-years?CMP=fb_gu0 -
Where were the 130 allegations? Widespread or concentrated?TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Would that not be a rather harsh restriction on freedom of expression ?JohnLilburne said:How do you define "free resources"? If wealthy or just keen activists campaign in an "away" constituency and don't charge for their travel or subsistence, surely as much is being spent on the campaign by the individual as it would if they were being paid expenses by the party. Similarly, if I go canvassing, any petrol I use and my lunch should be reckoned a contribution to the campaign, whether it's incurred personally by me or reimbursed by the party
The US has gone too far in the other direction - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens_United_v._FEC - but there is a happy medium between the extremes, and I think we're closer to it than they are.
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Deleted rather than struggling to clean up the nested quotes.0
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Complete debunking of the fantasy £24bn saving promised by Gove.
http://eulawanalysis.blogspot.co.uk/2016/12/hard-brexit-benefits-change-britains-24.html?m=1
6 months on and we're nowhere nearer a cogent plan.0 -
Didn't get past "the UK has full control over [...] whether the rebate is retained in future" as that is simply untrue.Bromptonaut said:Complete debunking of the fantasy £24bn saving promised by Gove.
http://eulawanalysis.blogspot.co.uk/2016/12/hard-brexit-benefits-change-britains-24.html?m=1
6 months on and we're nowhere nearer a cogent plan.0 -
£10-14bn savings doesn't sound too bad though. And yes, the government have just been twiddling their thumbs over the last six months.Bromptonaut said:Complete debunking of the fantasy £24bn saving promised by Gove.
http://eulawanalysis.blogspot.co.uk/2016/12/hard-brexit-benefits-change-britains-24.html?m=1
6 months on and we're nowhere nearer a cogent plan.0 -
The more you dig into that 'report' the more laughable it becomes. They claim we will save over £150m from getting rid of the eco-design directive for TVs.Bromptonaut said:Complete debunking of the fantasy £24bn saving promised by Gove.
http://eulawanalysis.blogspot.co.uk/2016/12/hard-brexit-benefits-change-britains-24.html?m=10 -
The recent Russian plane crash, yes. Looks like they pulled up the flaps instead of the gear. Schoolboy error.Y0kel said:Human error leading to technical failure or just a plain tech issue based on all reports but there is still mystery.
Early reports of the flash in the sky are said to be discounted.
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In the strict legal sense it is absolutely true. Unanimity is required. Whether or not we consider it in our interests to trade it away for something is entirely a matter for the government.ThreeQuidder said:
Didn't get past "the UK has full control over [...] whether the rebate is retained in future" as that is simply untrue.Bromptonaut said:Complete debunking of the fantasy £24bn saving promised by Gove.
http://eulawanalysis.blogspot.co.uk/2016/12/hard-brexit-benefits-change-britains-24.html?m=1
6 months on and we're nowhere nearer a cogent plan.
http://ec.europa.eu/budget/mff/introduction/index_en.cfm0 -
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/dec/28/netanyahu-told-new-zealand-backing-un-vote-would-be-declaration-of-war
Netanunu losing his marbles.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/dec/26/netanyahu-snubs-may-over-un-settlements-vote-israeli-media-says
Soon he will have to snub everyone apart from Trump.0 -
It is not the clamp down on vote fraud that is the problem -- after all, it is often the Labour Party which is the victim, as in Tower Hamlets -- but that it is being used as cover for voter suppression.Floater said:"First past the post is past its sell by date." says Jonathan
Was it a problem when FPP worked in Labours party Jon?
How about vote fraud, why does Labour have a problem with a clamp down?0 -
A national spending limit based on number of candidates would encourage small parties to stand paper candidates, then focus all their money into a handful of constituencies. Not necessarily a bad thing, but it would happen.0
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Some evidence for that assertion would be helpful.DecrepitJohnL said:
It is not the clamp down on vote fraud that is the problem -- after all, it is often the Labour Party which is the victim, as in Tower Hamlets -- but that it is being used as cover for voter suppression.Floater said:"First past the post is past its sell by date." says Jonathan
Was it a problem when FPP worked in Labours party Jon?
How about vote fraud, why does Labour have a problem with a clamp down?
Personally, I don't see the need for showing ID in order to vote, but the postal voting system needs a clampdown and the outlawing of parties' activists handling postal votes is long overdue.0 -
FFS. Sorry
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Agree.ThreeQuidder said:
Some evidence for that assertion would be helpful.DecrepitJohnL said:
It is not the clamp down on vote fraud that is the problem -- after all, it is often the Labour Party which is the victim, as in Tower Hamlets -- but that it is being used as cover for voter suppression.Floater said:"First past the post is past its sell by date." says Jonathan
Was it a problem when FPP worked in Labours party Jon?
How about vote fraud, why does Labour have a problem with a clamp down?
Personally, I don't see the need for showing ID in order to vote, but the postal voting system needs a clampdown and the outlawing of parties' activists handling postal votes is long overdue.0 -
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Y0kel = average member ? Oh, yeah !Y0kel said:Assange has been shilling for the the lads at Yasenevo for ages.
To top that, he is a thoroughly unpleasant individual who deserves to be disposed off in a set of black bags.
That an average member of the public like me could identify his links before the media brought it out to full effect tells you just how obvious it was.
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If my hybrid of FPTP and PR (?) was adopted where the number of constituencies was cut to 600, but the other 50 seats were represented by 1 MP for each 2% of the national vote gained, the HofC would have looked like this after the 2015 GE
Con 323 (330)
Lab 230 (232)
SNP 54 (56)
LD 12 (8)
UKIP 8 (1)
Green 3 (1)
A bit fairer I would have thought... and Dave would still be PM with Nick as Dep!0 -
Both but especially the constituency limits. Limiting the amount of contact that campaigns can make with voters is damaging not productive.Theuniondivvie said:
The current maximum spends or the concept of limits at all?Philip_Thompson said:Campaign spending limits are past their sell by date
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Activists being anywhere near postal votes needs to be eliminated completely. It's clearly a problem in certain "communities" and needs to be dealt with very harshly.ThreeQuidder said:
Some evidence for that assertion would be helpful.DecrepitJohnL said:
It is not the clamp down on vote fraud that is the problem -- after all, it is often the Labour Party which is the victim, as in Tower Hamlets -- but that it is being used as cover for voter suppression.Floater said:"First past the post is past its sell by date." says Jonathan
Was it a problem when FPP worked in Labours party Jon?
How about vote fraud, why does Labour have a problem with a clamp down?
Personally, I don't see the need for showing ID in order to vote, but the postal voting system needs a clampdown and the outlawing of parties' activists handling postal votes is long overdue.0 -
On topic, isn't it a shame that democracy is twisted and spun by power hungry fakes? Its the only way Blair won, and the same goes for Cameron. I hate that when people say "that's politics" they mean it to describe something shifty and underhand, rather than something good and honest.0
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After the absolute embarrassment this year (crap candidates, crap debates and an absurd result where the loser won and the winner lost, not to mention the incompetence of the count) I would not be surprised if even the land of the elected dog catcher had not had enough of elections for a while.MTimT said:@ DavidL "Meh. I would abolish spending limits for elections altogether."
I misread that as "I would abolish elections altogether" and thought "How Trumpian of you."
But our present rules are arcane, complex and largely pointless. They have allowed the incompetent buffoons in the Electoral Commission to stay off the unemployment register where they belong but it is hard to see any other benefits.
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There is far too much heat and not enough light when the mechanics of voting - yet alone the voting system - is discussed. Much of the heat is ill-informed, if only because there is very little evidence either way.ThreeQuidder said:
Some evidence for that assertion would be helpful.DecrepitJohnL said:
It is not the clamp down on vote fraud that is the problem -- after all, it is often the Labour Party which is the victim, as in Tower Hamlets -- but that it is being used as cover for voter suppression.Floater said:"First past the post is past its sell by date." says Jonathan
Was it a problem when FPP worked in Labours party Jon?
How about vote fraud, why does Labour have a problem with a clamp down?
Personally, I don't see the need for showing ID in order to vote, but the postal voting system needs a clampdown and the outlawing of parties' activists handling postal votes is long overdue.
Take postal voting: yes, there have been a few court cases about fraud, and occasionally organised fraud, but little evidence that there has been frequent mass fraud on a scale likely to change the result of an election (*), and especially in a GE.
So we need evidence before we make policy. Perform as much research as can be done whilst maintaining voter privacy and anonymity (and that is a big problem for research). Random checks of PV signatures might be one system, especially where fraud is suspected or likely.
(*) The following is an example where it may well have:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/councillors-guilty-of-postal-votes-fraud-that-would-shame-a-banana-republic-5350422.html0 -
It's in white working class areas. Fu8ing racist piece of shits....Is that what you wanted to know?isam said:
Where were the 130 allegations? Widespread or concentrated?TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Just fancied the truth. If that's it so be it... or is that fake news?nunu said:
It's in white working class areas. Fu8ing racist piece of shits....Is that what you wanted to know?isam said:
Where were the 130 allegations? Widespread or concentrated?TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Enter the one word "personation" in google search and look at the suggested completions.nunu said:
It's in white working class areas. Fu8ing racist piece of shits....Is that what you wanted to know?isam said:
Where were the 130 allegations? Widespread or concentrated?TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
From all the other recent discussion of fake news, it sounds like the BBC is now reporting what some random Russian blog says about the plane crash, from only an hour or two after it was reported that a flight recorder was recovered from the scene.Sandpit said:
The recent Russian plane crash, yes. Looks like they pulled up the flaps instead of the gear. Schoolboy error.Y0kel said:Human error leading to technical failure or just a plain tech issue based on all reports but there is still mystery.
Early reports of the flash in the sky are said to be discounted.
Genuine pilots' forum seems to be waiting for real news.
http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/588730-tu154-out-sochi-missing-9.html0 -
Allegations of voting fraud =/= instances of voting fraud
Could be a big problem, could be a tiny one.0 -
Given how much Google now personalises autocomplete, that may say more about you...Ishmael_Z said:
Enter the one word "personation" in google search and look at the suggested completions.nunu said:
It's in white working class areas. Fu8ing racist piece of shits....Is that what you wanted to know?isam said:
Where were the 130 allegations? Widespread or concentrated?TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Greenwald and Guardian falling out over their idol / former idol...quite amusing really.
I bet their are some cracking quotes from the Guardianistas of this world on how brilliant Assange is...dating back to when he was helping to dump a tonne of shit over Bush led US.0 -
"Personation meaning in Hindi"Ishmael_Z said:
Enter the one word "personation" in google search and look at the suggested completions.nunu said:
It's in white working class areas. Fu8ing racist piece of shits....Is that what you wanted to know?isam said:
Where were the 130 allegations? Widespread or concentrated?TheScreamingEagles said:
"Personation meaning in Urdu"
From google.co.uk with a cleared cache.0 -
I think they track by IP, so cache doesn't matter.Sandpit said:
"Personation meaning in Hindi"Ishmael_Z said:
Enter the one word "personation" in google search and look at the suggested completions.nunu said:
It's in white working class areas. Fu8ing racist piece of shits....Is that what you wanted to know?isam said:
Where were the 130 allegations? Widespread or concentrated?TheScreamingEagles said:
"Personation meaning in Urdu"
From google.co.uk with a cleared cache.0 -
Seems to me this is an instance where prevention has a considerable value. It's good to be able to rely on the integrity of our voting procedures.Essexit said:Allegations of voting fraud =/= instances of voting fraud
Could be a big problem, could be a tiny one.
Good evening, everyone.0 -
It would be nice if the voters rewarded good and honest behaviour, but I won't be holding my breath.isam said:On topic, isn't it a shame that democracy is twisted and spun by power hungry fakes? Its the only way Blair won, and the same goes for Cameron. I hate that when people say "that's politics" they mean it to describe something shifty and underhand, rather than something good and honest.
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I'm not in UK, never otherwise use Google UK and have a dynamic IP on home internet connection. Don't see why result isn't genuine and have heard of similar results before.RobD said:
I think they track by IP, so cache doesn't matter.Sandpit said:
"Personation meaning in Hindi"Ishmael_Z said:
Enter the one word "personation" in google search and look at the suggested completions.nunu said:
It's in white working class areas. Fu8ing racist piece of shits....Is that what you wanted to know?isam said:
Where were the 130 allegations? Widespread or concentrated?TheScreamingEagles said:
"Personation meaning in Urdu"
From google.co.uk with a cleared cache.
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The BBC has picked up the Guardian story on Civil Service disquiet about Brexit.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38450840
"Ministers lack the political courage to admit how complex and time-consuming this will be.
"When anyone pops their head above the parapet - former permanent secretaries, ex-cabinet secretaries, the Institute for Government - and says this is going to take a long time and it's complex, they are immediately shot down and accused of betraying the will of the people."0 -
Which just goes to illustrate why we voted to leave, before we became so far integrated into this United States of Europe that it would be impossible to get out.williamglenn said:The BBC has picked up the Guardian story on Civil Service disquiet about Brexit.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38450840
"Ministers lack the political courage to admit how complex and time-consuming this will be.
"When anyone pops their head above the parapet - former permanent secretaries, ex-cabinet secretaries, the Institute for Government - and says this is going to take a long time and it's complex, they are immediately shot down and accused of betraying the will of the people."0 -
Yeah I wasn't looking to disagree with you. The point about IP tracking still stands, so clearing cache isn't that important.Sandpit said:
I'm not in UK, never otherwise use Google UK and have a dynamic IP on home internet connection. Don't see why result isn't genuine and have heard of similar results before.RobD said:
I think they track by IP, so cache doesn't matter.Sandpit said:
"Personation meaning in Hindi"Ishmael_Z said:
Enter the one word "personation" in google search and look at the suggested completions.nunu said:
It's in white working class areas. Fu8ing racist piece of shits....Is that what you wanted to know?isam said:
Where were the 130 allegations? Widespread or concentrated?TheScreamingEagles said:
"Personation meaning in Urdu"
From google.co.uk with a cleared cache.0 -
"Civil service disquiet"? You mean the leader of the civil service union, surely?williamglenn said:The BBC has picked up the Guardian story on Civil Service disquiet about Brexit.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38450840
"Ministers lack the political courage to admit how complex and time-consuming this will be.
"When anyone pops their head above the parapet - former permanent secretaries, ex-cabinet secretaries, the Institute for Government - and says this is going to take a long time and it's complex, they are immediately shot down and accused of betraying the will of the people."0 -
It isn't a subject I have ever googled about until yesterday.rcs1000 said:
Given how much Google now personalises autocomplete, that may say more about you...Ishmael_Z said:
Enter the one word "personation" in google search and look at the suggested completions.nunu said:
It's in white working class areas. Fu8ing racist piece of shits....Is that what you wanted to know?isam said:
Where were the 130 allegations? Widespread or concentrated?TheScreamingEagles said:
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/1596032/vote-rigging-in-muslim-communities-goes-unchallenged-because-pc-police-are-scared-of-causing-offence/
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/08/11/election-fraud-allowed-to-take-place-in-muslim-communities-becau/
Nope; only discovered that yesterday when I wanted to check I had the right word. Are you getting a different result?rcs1000 said:
Given how much Google now personalises autocomplete, that may say more about you...Ishmael_Z said:
Enter the one word "personation" in google search and look at the suggested completions.nunu said:
It's in white working class areas. Fu8ing racist piece of shits....Is that what you wanted to know?isam said:
Where were the 130 allegations? Widespread or concentrated?TheScreamingEagles said:
The Electoral Commission seems happy to go on the record about this: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/general-election-2015/11373206/Ballot-rigging-risk-in-Pakistani-and-Bangladeshi-communities.html0 -
The government knows its market. We the populus can't handle thewilliamglenn said:The BBC has picked up the Guardian story on Civil Service disquiet about Brexit.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38450840
"Ministers lack the political courage to admit how complex and time-consuming this will be.
"When anyone pops their head above the parapet - former permanent secretaries, ex-cabinet secretaries, the Institute for Government - and says this is going to take a long time and it's complex, they are immediately shot down and accused of betraying the will of the people."truthcomplexities of trade deal negotiations.0 -
But..but...but .....Ted Heath described this as a simple little thing, nothing more than a common market .....so nothing to worry our pretty little "peasant heads" about.williamglenn said:The BBC has picked up the Guardian story on Civil Service disquiet about Brexit.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38450840
"Ministers lack the political courage to admit how complex and time-consuming this will be.
"When anyone pops their head above the parapet - former permanent secretaries, ex-cabinet secretaries, the Institute for Government - and says this is going to take a long time and it's complex, they are immediately shot down and accused of betraying the will of the people."
Someone either then or along the way has been telling some huge porkies0 -
Buying a house is a fairly straightforward process. Millions of examples. Have you ever once looked at the contract you have "exchanged"? Plenty complex, takes an immense amount of time, even when it's supposed to be standard, and is frought with disagreement over the detail.Moses_ said:
But..but...but .....Ted Heath described this as a simple little thing, nothing more than a common market .....so nothing to worry our pretty little "peasant heads" about.williamglenn said:The BBC has picked up the Guardian story on Civil Service disquiet about Brexit.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38450840
"Ministers lack the political courage to admit how complex and time-consuming this will be.
"When anyone pops their head above the parapet - former permanent secretaries, ex-cabinet secretaries, the Institute for Government - and says this is going to take a long time and it's complex, they are immediately shot down and accused of betraying the will of the people."
Someone either then or along the way has been telling some huge porkies
And we will need to draw up these from scratch in thousands upon thousands of instances.-1
