politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » What Corbyn’s re-election and the huge increase in membership
Comments
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Mr. Nabavi, indeed.
That said, it's hard to think of a worse leader than Corbyn. He's the Honorius of Labour.0 -
Be serious... The story of GEC is virtually the text book of how to destroy a successful company by short termism and asset stripping. And that's just one example. Austin Rover is another equally sad one. BHS more recent.TheWhiteRabbit said:
I'm intrigued by your description of the UK post-1977 - one of the world's most successful economies in that time - as "asset stripping"...Monksfield said:
It's an excellent article. The entire Tory philosophy since 1977 has been sell our country's assets down the river. Managed decline and asset stripping. And New Labour was happy to confer its assent through continuity policies. How can you take back control over this?Scott_P said:Paging Southam...
https://twitter.com/guardian/status/808567440036810752
What will happen when the CDEs realise they've been duped again by Bozo and assorted other demagogues? How do you deliver the outcome they want, which is better jobs, with higher pay? A question I've asked on here repeatedly in various guises and only had 1-2 attempts at an answer.
Oh, the City prospered but look at the cost? Levered to buggery, endless austerity and a housing market overvalued by 100% that we can't afford to reboot. Very successful!
You know where to look to see a well run economy, and they had to absorb the transformation of the East.0 -
Indeed. Any show would be hugely different.TheScreamingEagles said:
I wish twitter existed when The West Wing was on.Slackbladder said:
It's amazing how much 'old' telly, even a few decades old is now completely outdated by modern tech. About 90% of old comedy and probably 95% of old dedective shows simply don't work in this day and age of mobiles, internet social media etc.TheScreamingEagles said:
It ain't over until she changes her relationship status on Facebook.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Eagles, Rachel's fault. You can't call for a break then complain when you get a break. It's like hosting an orgy and complaining your husband's sleeping with someone else.
Just imagine Toby's reaction to stuff said on Twitter.0 -
So petrochemical boss to be Trumpys Sec of State.
:Places head in hands:0 -
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YesMonksfield said:
Stood in Stafford 2015?AlastairMeeks said:
This is someone whose moniker used to be KateVotesLabour - so as you say, a straw in the wind worth taking note of.Tissue_Price said:Major straw in the wind. She applied to be the candidate in the Oldham by-election IIRC.
https://twitter.com/KateGodfrey_/status/8086245036853452800 -
... The entire Tory philosophy since 1977 has been sell our country's assets down the river...
We run a welfare state (=fiscal deficit) and a huge trade deficit. Trade deficits demand asset sales - simple but uncomfortable economic reality. We badly need to trade more and import less. Maybe British industry is too short-termist? Deciding to leave the EU appears to have helped a lot as Sterling is weaker now (reversion to true value).
If you deplore asset sales then agitate for increased competitiveness. A good place to start understanding that is the World Economic Forum competitiveness index. We do reasonably well but are hampered by excessive borrowing (welfare state drag) and affordability (things like a minimum wage set above true value - which is, in turn, impacted by cheap labour immigration). Personally I think many governments could do a lot worse than setting themselves WEFCI targets and focus policy on precisely those things which drive the index score.
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I blame the shoesTheScreamingEagles said:
That's nothing. I'm regularly called a member of the liberal metropolitan elite.MaxPB said:I've been called a member of the globalist elite by someone at work today.
Apparently having a foreign girlfriend and moving to Switzerland qualifies me.
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Lots of EV chat this morning. I've been driving a Leaf since 2013, bought second hand at a good price. Don't buy a new one, the depreciation is brutal. I love it - mainly used for the 15 mile commute and running around at weekends. Beautifully smooth and quiet, very cheap to run, fast away when you need it to be, most enjoyable car I've ever had.
I won't buy another ICE (internal combustion engine) car.0 -
Not just any petrochemical boss but one who opposes Russian sanctions that tied up billions of dollars in oil deals.Monksfield said:So petrochemical boss to be Trumpys Sec of State.
:Places head in hands:0 -
I didn't realise that it was Tory philosophy that caused the retirement and death of Arnold Weinstock.Monksfield said:
Be serious... The story of GEC is virtually the text book of how to destroy a successful company by short termism and asset stripping.TheWhiteRabbit said:
I'm intrigued by your description of the UK post-1977 - one of the world's most successful economies in that time - as "asset stripping"...Monksfield said:
It's an excellent article. The entire Tory philosophy since 1977 has been sell our country's assets down the river. Managed decline and asset stripping. And New Labour was happy to confer its assent through continuity policies. How can you take back control over this?Scott_P said:Paging Southam...
https://twitter.com/guardian/status/808567440036810752
What will happen when the CDEs realise they've been duped again by Bozo and assorted other demagogues? How do you deliver the outcome they want, which is better jobs, with higher pay? A question I've asked on here repeatedly in various guises and only had 1-2 attempts at an answer.0 -
Tim Stanley
It's Tillerson! In a Trump Cabinet that's less America First than it is Business First. All very Harding/Coolidge
His nickname T Rex is endless media trivia fodder0 -
I expect the solution will actually be personal electic cars for local travel, and bookable driverless petrol cars for longer trips.Bromptonaut said:Lots of EV chat this morning. I've been driving a Leaf since 2013, bought second hand at a good price. Don't buy a new one, the depreciation is brutal. I love it - mainly used for the 15 mile commute and running around at weekends. Beautifully smooth and quiet, very cheap to run, fast away when you need it to be, most enjoyable car I've ever had.
I won't buy another ICE (internal combustion engine) car.0 -
God help Labour then.TheScreamingEagles said:
I think Richard Burgon and Emily Thornberry might also be contendersTissue_Price said:
It will be the left that does for Corbyn in the end. We might be looking at a Lewis - Nandy contest.rottenborough said:I have just topped up by bets on Clive Lewis being next Labour leader. Currently on BF he is just ahead of Starmer as the two favourites.
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Don't be obtuse.. was GEC not destroyed by short termism and asset stripping?williamglenn said:
I didn't realise that it was Tory philosophy that caused the retirement and death of Arnold Weinstock.Monksfield said:
Be serious... The story of GEC is virtually the text book of how to destroy a successful company by short termism and asset stripping.TheWhiteRabbit said:
I'm intrigued by your description of the UK post-1977 - one of the world's most successful economies in that time - as "asset stripping"...Monksfield said:
It's an excellent article. The entire Tory philosophy since 1977 has been sell our country's assets down the river. Managed decline and asset stripping. And New Labour was happy to confer its assent through continuity policies. How can you take back control over this?Scott_P said:Paging Southam...
https://twitter.com/guardian/status/808567440036810752
What will happen when the CDEs realise they've been duped again by Bozo and assorted other demagogues? How do you deliver the outcome they want, which is better jobs, with higher pay? A question I've asked on here repeatedly in various guises and only had 1-2 attempts at an answer.0 -
Stranger things have happened.MarqueeMark said:
*has image of Merlin engine in bits over the kitchen table....*PlatoSaid said:
My Spitfire only runs on 4*. Thankfully, it's in bits right now so this isn't a problemSlackbladder said:
I confess i have a diesel at the moment, but i'll be changing back to petrol one next year.MikeSmithson said:
The focus at the moment should be on getting the diesel killers off the roads which is what Sadiq Khan is pressing for in London.JosiasJessop said:
It's another example of people betting the future on technology that isn't here yet. Yes, there are electric cars, but the ones that exist are at neither the price point or performance (e.g. range) to replace fossil-fuelled cars.GIN1138 said:Third - Like the car manufacturers when Jezza has banned petrol cars!
I'm struggling to think of when an inferior technology last replaced a superior one (at least from the consumers' point of view).
Also, are all petrol cars banned, or only new ones from being registered? If the former there'll be chaos and uproar. If the latter then grandfather rights will make cars purchased immediately before the ban rather valuable.
https://youtu.be/H70OqfF0AWY
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Of course, but blaming the Tories/Thatcher, rather than the management of the company is a bit like blaming the EU for the failings of the UK - it's misdirection. Business culture is influenced by the whole of society so to that extent we all have to take some responsibility.Monksfield said:
Don't be obtuse.. was GEC not destroyed by short termism and asset stripping?williamglenn said:
I didn't realise that it was Tory philosophy that caused the retirement and death of Arnold Weinstock.Monksfield said:
Be serious... The story of GEC is virtually the text book of how to destroy a successful company by short termism and asset stripping.TheWhiteRabbit said:
I'm intrigued by your description of the UK post-1977 - one of the world's most successful economies in that time - as "asset stripping"...Monksfield said:
It's an excellent article. The entire Tory philosophy since 1977 has been sell our country's assets down the river. Managed decline and asset stripping. And New Labour was happy to confer its assent through continuity policies. How can you take back control over this?Scott_P said:Paging Southam...
https://twitter.com/guardian/status/808567440036810752
What will happen when the CDEs realise they've been duped again by Bozo and assorted other demagogues? How do you deliver the outcome they want, which is better jobs, with higher pay? A question I've asked on here repeatedly in various guises and only had 1-2 attempts at an answer.0 -
Unite get into the Christmas spirit.
http://www.itv.com/news/2016-12-13/argos-delivery-drivers-to-strike-for-three-days-during-run-up-to-christmas/0 -
Long distance will be trains and bookable driverless electric Ubers for either end.Slackbladder said:
I expect the solution will actually be personal electic cars for local travel, and bookable driverless petrol cars for longer trips.Bromptonaut said:Lots of EV chat this morning. I've been driving a Leaf since 2013, bought second hand at a good price. Don't buy a new one, the depreciation is brutal. I love it - mainly used for the 15 mile commute and running around at weekends. Beautifully smooth and quiet, very cheap to run, fast away when you need it to be, most enjoyable car I've ever had.
I won't buy another ICE (internal combustion engine) car.0 -
Here's that scenario I posted earlier with a "Labour split", which I've just noticed EC have added*. Adjusted to include some LD/Con gains off the SNP, since EC won't let you do both at once.
You can see why the PLP are leery: Con Maj 194.CON 41% 422 LAB 18% 108 LIB 13% 17 UKIP 8% 0 Green 3% 1 SNP 5% 50 PlaidC 1% 4 NewLAB 10% 28 N.Ire 18
*The original official Labour party ('LAB') and the new breakaway party (called 'NewLAB' for short) are shown separately. The model is based in each seat on a random simulation of Labour votes between the old and new parties, and it is not yet possible to give a definite seat-by-seat prediction or show changed seats.
http://bit.ly/2hzIOTn0 -
A working 1/5 scale one:Theuniondivvie said:
Stranger things have happened.MarqueeMark said:
*has image of Merlin engine in bits over the kitchen table....*PlatoSaid said:
My Spitfire only runs on 4*. Thankfully, it's in bits right now so this isn't a problemSlackbladder said:
I confess i have a diesel at the moment, but i'll be changing back to petrol one next year.MikeSmithson said:
The focus at the moment should be on getting the diesel killers off the roads which is what Sadiq Khan is pressing for in London.JosiasJessop said:
It's another example of people betting the future on technology that isn't here yet. Yes, there are electric cars, but the ones that exist are at neither the price point or performance (e.g. range) to replace fossil-fuelled cars.GIN1138 said:Third - Like the car manufacturers when Jezza has banned petrol cars!
I'm struggling to think of when an inferior technology last replaced a superior one (at least from the consumers' point of view).
Also, are all petrol cars banned, or only new ones from being registered? If the former there'll be chaos and uproar. If the latter then grandfather rights will make cars purchased immediately before the ban rather valuable.
(Snip)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xe1LL1IC7Y0 -
For an alternative view on the proposed appointment of Rex Tillerson:
http://www.arabnews.com/node/1022751/columns
Presumably the relevant Senate committee has been squared off, despite some ominous noises.0 -
Trump's choice of SoS is inspired. Who better to negotiate a new relationship with Russia than someone who understands the real power structures of their cronyistic energy business?0
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What's wrong with working somewhere with low taxes and sharing your bed with a Russian...?MaxPB said:
Even though I'm going to Switzerland to work rather than avoid tax and my girlfriend is Swiss and not Russian?Richard_Nabavi said:
Absolutely, you have a fully-paid up life membership.MaxPB said:I've been called a member of the globalist elite by someone at work today.
Apparently having a foreign girlfriend and moving to Switzerland qualifies me.
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That's what I've been saying for some time: usage and ownership patterns will change when automated cars become dominant.Bromptonaut said:
Long distance will be trains and bookable driverless electric Ubers for either end.Slackbladder said:
I expect the solution will actually be personal electic cars for local travel, and bookable driverless petrol cars for longer trips.Bromptonaut said:Lots of EV chat this morning. I've been driving a Leaf since 2013, bought second hand at a good price. Don't buy a new one, the depreciation is brutal. I love it - mainly used for the 15 mile commute and running around at weekends. Beautifully smooth and quiet, very cheap to run, fast away when you need it to be, most enjoyable car I've ever had.
I won't buy another ICE (internal combustion engine) car.0 -
Thatcherism created the business - and if you like societal - culture that resulted in changes to how businesses operated. From the long-term, essentially staid, and I grant you perhaps complacent way of doing things, to one where executives and managers have sought to enrich themselves in the short term at the expense of their companies long term future, and in more recent times this has sometimes appeared to be against their shareholders interests. I accept it's arguable whether the times created Thatcherism or vv but either way the effects have ultimately been felt in communities and are now being manifested in Brexit.williamglenn said:
Of course, but blaming the Tories/Thatcher, rather than the management of the company is a bit like blaming the EU for the failings of the UK - it's misdirection. Business culture is influenced by the whole of society so to that extent we all have to take some responsibility.Monksfield said:
Don't be obtuse.. was GEC not destroyed by short termism and asset stripping?williamglenn said:
I didn't realise that it was Tory philosophy that caused the retirement and death of Arnold Weinstock.Monksfield said:
Be serious... The story of GEC is virtually the text book of how to destroy a successful company by short termism and asset stripping.TheWhiteRabbit said:
I'm intrigued by your description of the UK post-1977 - one of the world's most successful economies in that time - as "asset stripping"...Monksfield said:
It's an excellent article. The entire Tory philosophy since 1977 has been sell our country's assets down the river. Managed decline and asset stripping. And New Labour was happy to confer its assent through continuity policies. How can you take back control over this?Scott_P said:Paging Southam...
https://twitter.com/guardian/status/808567440036810752
What will happen when the CDEs realise they've been duped again by Bozo and assorted other demagogues? How do you deliver the outcome they want, which is better jobs, with higher pay? A question I've asked on here repeatedly in various guises and only had 1-2 attempts at an answer.
Germany has managed this transition better, through better governance. France through backdoor protectionism and consumer loyalty. Britain has played zero sum, the shelves are empty, and the Brexiteers are now tasked with sorting it out. Good luck to thrm, the people of the north are expecting better, not worse.0 -
No, it wasn't, as it happens. It was destroyed by an idiotic attempt at expansion - over-paying by a ludicrous degree for a company that wasn't worth it - rather like RBS. Pretty much the opposite of asset-stripping and short-termism.Monksfield said:Don't be obtuse.. was GEC not destroyed by short termism and asset stripping?
In any case, why would the fate of just one company be evidence for your proposition? Of the top of my head I can cite lots of UK companies which have been extremely well-managed and have grown accordingly over the long-term, for example Vodafone, National Grid, Compass, Unilever (Anglo-Dutch), Reckeitt Benckiser (also Ango-Dutch now), Prudential, etc etc.0 -
Looks a lovely piece of work, though shame about the sound. A lot easier to start than a 5000cc twin I imagine.JosiasJessop said:
A working 1/5 scale one:Theuniondivvie said:
Stranger things have happened.MarqueeMark said:
*has image of Merlin engine in bits over the kitchen table....*PlatoSaid said:
My Spitfire only runs on 4*. Thankfully, it's in bits right now so this isn't a problemSlackbladder said:
I confess i have a diesel at the moment, but i'll be changing back to petrol one next year.MikeSmithson said:
The focus at the moment should be on getting the diesel killers off the roads which is what Sadiq Khan is pressing for in London.JosiasJessop said:
It's another example of people betting the future on technology that isn't here yet. Yes, there are electric cars, but the ones that exist are at neither the price point or performance (e.g. range) to replace fossil-fuelled cars.GIN1138 said:Third - Like the car manufacturers when Jezza has banned petrol cars!
I'm struggling to think of when an inferior technology last replaced a superior one (at least from the consumers' point of view).
Also, are all petrol cars banned, or only new ones from being registered? If the former there'll be chaos and uproar. If the latter then grandfather rights will make cars purchased immediately before the ban rather valuable.
(Snip)0 -
If Mike is excluding Batley from his figures then he should also exclude Richmond where the Conservatives stood aside.
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Vodafone until the Italian asset stripper arrived!Richard_Nabavi said:
No, it wasn't, as it happens. It was destroyed by an idiotic attempt at expansion - over-paying by a ludicrous degree for a company that wasn't worth it - rather like RBS. Pretty much the opposite of asset-stripping.Monksfield said:Don't be obtuse.. was GEC not destroyed by short termism and asset stripping?
In any case, why would the fate of just one company be evidence for your proposition? Of the top of my head I can cite lots of UK companies which have been extremely well-managed and have grown accordingly over the long-term, for example Vodafone, National Grid, Compass, Unilever (Anglo-Dutch), Reckeitt Benckiser (also Ango-Dutch now), Prudential, etc etc.0 -
I think this is more like a 2050 possibly scenario, rather than 2030 mind.JosiasJessop said:
That's what I've been saying for some time: usage and ownership patterns will change when automated cars become dominant.Bromptonaut said:
Long distance will be trains and bookable driverless electric Ubers for either end.Slackbladder said:
I expect the solution will actually be personal electic cars for local travel, and bookable driverless petrol cars for longer trips.Bromptonaut said:Lots of EV chat this morning. I've been driving a Leaf since 2013, bought second hand at a good price. Don't buy a new one, the depreciation is brutal. I love it - mainly used for the 15 mile commute and running around at weekends. Beautifully smooth and quiet, very cheap to run, fast away when you need it to be, most enjoyable car I've ever had.
I won't buy another ICE (internal combustion engine) car.0 -
I'd agree with that. I think I've mentioned my views on the immediate prospects for self-drive cars enough.Pulpstar said:
I think this is more like a 2050 possibly scenario, rather than 2030 mind.JosiasJessop said:
That's what I've been saying for some time: usage and ownership patterns will change when automated cars become dominant.Bromptonaut said:
Long distance will be trains and bookable driverless electric Ubers for either end.Slackbladder said:
I expect the solution will actually be personal electic cars for local travel, and bookable driverless petrol cars for longer trips.Bromptonaut said:Lots of EV chat this morning. I've been driving a Leaf since 2013, bought second hand at a good price. Don't buy a new one, the depreciation is brutal. I love it - mainly used for the 15 mile commute and running around at weekends. Beautifully smooth and quiet, very cheap to run, fast away when you need it to be, most enjoyable car I've ever had.
I won't buy another ICE (internal combustion engine) car. 0 -
David_Evershed said:
If Mike is excluding Batley from his figures then he should also exclude Richmond where the Conservatives stood aside.
Would Goldsmith have got more or less votes as the Tory candidate?
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An oil man should have good inside knowledge of governments in Russia, the Middle East and Nigeria.williamglenn said:Trump's choice of SoS is inspired. Who better to negotiate a new relationship with Russia than someone who understands the real power structures of their cronyistic energy business?
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More I reckon.MarkHopkins said:David_Evershed said:If Mike is excluding Batley from his figures then he should also exclude Richmond where the Conservatives stood aside.
Would Goldsmith have got more or less votes as the Tory candidate?0 -
Mr. Hopkins, fewer*.
Cooler, three days.0 -
I'm wary of commenting too deeply, since I'd not heard of Tillerson before this week. But he certainly looks qualified for the role as Trump sees it and it will be very interesting to see how he handles the State Department, never mind the rest of the world.AlastairMeeks said:For an alternative view on the proposed appointment of Rex Tillerson:
http://www.arabnews.com/node/1022751/columns
Presumably the relevant Senate committee has been squared off, despite some ominous noises.0 -
" And that's just one example. Austin Rover is another equally sad one"Monksfield said:
Be serious... The story of GEC is virtually the text book of how to destroy a successful company by short termism and asset stripping. And that's just one example. Austin Rover is another equally sad one. BHS more recent.TheWhiteRabbit said:
I'm intrigued by your description of the UK post-1977 - one of the world's most successful economies in that time - as "asset stripping"...Monksfield said:
It's an excellent article. The entire Tory philosophy since 1977 has been sell our country's assets down the river. Managed decline and asset stripping. And New Labour was happy to confer its assent through continuity policies. How can you take back control over this?Scott_P said:Paging Southam...
https://twitter.com/guardian/status/808567440036810752
What will happen when the CDEs realise they've been duped again by Bozo and assorted other demagogues? How do you deliver the outcome they want, which is better jobs, with higher pay? A question I've asked on here repeatedly in various guises and only had 1-2 attempts at an answer.
Oh, the City prospered but look at the cost? Levered to buggery, endless austerity and a housing market overvalued by 100% that we can't afford to reboot. Very successful!
You know where to look to see a well run economy, and they had to absorb the transformation of the East.
Sorry but that ruins the effect . AR failed due to poor models, low productivity and a toxic mix of Labour unrest/strikes/ and incompetent management.
It was NEVER "successful". When it was formed it had nearly 40% market share in the UK.. It managed to lose most of that by a series of crap models, and even worse reliability.. Quality Control did not exist for most of its life..0 -
F1: more bibble-bobbling. Bottas remains favourite, Wehrlein close 2nd. Sainz had gone a bit longer.
Wehrlein now makes his (inexplicably late) entry onto the drivers' market (for the title). 17 isn't great compared to (as then) Bottas at 26 (currently 8) and Sainz 101.0 -
EVs currently work well for those who live and work in the same town, are able to charge the car at either place and travel away infrequently enough to either go by train and taxi or to rent a car. The biggest short-term issues are the cost of the EV and the charging station network.Bromptonaut said:Lots of EV chat this morning. I've been driving a Leaf since 2013, bought second hand at a good price. Don't buy a new one, the depreciation is brutal. I love it - mainly used for the 15 mile commute and running around at weekends. Beautifully smooth and quiet, very cheap to run, fast away when you need it to be, most enjoyable car I've ever had.
I won't buy another ICE (internal combustion engine) car.
Driverless cars are a different subject entirely, the breakthoughs there will be in autonomous truck convoys which save fuel and labour, and when autonomous cars can drive empty - therefore can drop me at the office door before parking out of town, then returning to pick me up from the pub at the end of the evening. 0 -
FEWER not lessMarkHopkins said:David_Evershed said:If Mike is excluding Batley from his figures then he should also exclude Richmond where the Conservatives stood aside.
Would Goldsmith have got more or less votes as the Tory candidate?0 -
I give him 12 months, before he finds it impossible to work with Trump. As CEO of one of the world's biggest companies his experience of how to deal with people and manage organizations will be completely different to Trump's methods of working.Tissue_Price said:
I'm wary of commenting too deeply, since I'd not heard of Tillerson before this week. But he certainly looks qualified for the role as Trump sees it and it will be very interesting to see how he handles the State Department, never mind the rest of the world.AlastairMeeks said:For an alternative view on the proposed appointment of Rex Tillerson:
http://www.arabnews.com/node/1022751/columns
Presumably the relevant Senate committee has been squared off, despite some ominous noises.0 -
At least it makes a change from appointing people from Goldman Sachs :-)DecrepitJohnL said:
Not just any petrochemical boss but one who opposes Russian sanctions that tied up billions of dollars in oil deals.Monksfield said:So petrochemical boss to be Trumpys Sec of State.
:Places head in hands:
That swamp is getting darker and deeper.
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If Zac had been the CON candidate then UKIP would have almost certainly fielded a candidate which would have knocked 2-3% off his total. But the CON machine and database would have been available to him and it would have been closer. My guess is that he'd have won. His campaign as an independent was very much impeded by the lack of data which had a big impact on election day itself.TheScreamingEagles said:
FEWER not lessMarkHopkins said:David_Evershed said:If Mike is excluding Batley from his figures then he should also exclude Richmond where the Conservatives stood aside.
Would Goldsmith have got more or less votes as the Tory candidate?
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He would of gotten less votesTheScreamingEagles said:FEWER not less
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I wonder if we're seeing the start of the split in labour now, with the lib dems being a more moderate attractive option for the 'moderates/new labour' voters, if not the politicans (at the moment).
The question is now how far can that be taken, could the lib dems get back to the high teens and labour fall to the low 20s I wonder?0 -
We had a GEC television back in the day. For the channels, it had six strange touch-sensitive buttons with the following headings:Monksfield said:
Be serious... The story of GEC is virtually the text book of how to destroy a successful company by short termism and asset stripping. And that's just one example. Austin Rover is another equally sad one. BHS more recent.TheWhiteRabbit said:
I'm intrigued by your description of the UK post-1977 - one of the world's most successful economies in that time - as "asset stripping"...Monksfield said:
It's an excellent article. The entire Tory philosophy since 1977 has been sell our country's assets down the river. Managed decline and asset stripping. And New Labour was happy to confer its assent through continuity policies. How can you take back control over this?Scott_P said:Paging Southam...
https://twitter.com/guardian/status/808567440036810752
What will happen when the CDEs realise they've been duped again by Bozo and assorted other demagogues? How do you deliver the outcome they want, which is better jobs, with higher pay? A question I've asked on here repeatedly in various guises and only had 1-2 attempts at an answer.
Oh, the City prospered but look at the cost? Levered to buggery, endless austerity and a housing market overvalued by 100% that we can't afford to reboot. Very successful!
You know where to look to see a well run economy, and they had to absorb the transformation of the East.
BBC1, BBC2, IBA1, IBA2, an asterisk and a blank.
But, for the best picture, ITV had to be on the 'BBC2' button, BBC1 on the blank, BBC2 on 'IBA1' etc.
You got used to it.0 -
Are Tory votes in Richmond countable or uncountable?TheScreamingEagles said:
FEWER not lessMarkHopkins said:David_Evershed said:If Mike is excluding Batley from his figures then he should also exclude Richmond where the Conservatives stood aside.
Would Goldsmith have got more or less votes as the Tory candidate?0 -
Mr. Smithson, but isn't that a non-starter, as Goldsmith resigned and wasn't available by his own decision to be a Conservative candidate?0
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No, but Zac's voters are countable, and the question waswilliamglenn said:
Are Tory votes in Richmond countable or uncountable?TheScreamingEagles said:
FEWER not lessMarkHopkins said:David_Evershed said:If Mike is excluding Batley from his figures then he should also exclude Richmond where the Conservatives stood aside.
Would Goldsmith have got more or less votes as the Tory candidate?
Would Goldsmith have got more or less votes as the Tory candidate?
Goldsmith's votes were countable.0 -
You can add Thames Water to that list.Stark_Dawning said:
We had a GEC television back in the day. For the channels, it had six strange touch-sensitive buttons with the following headings:Monksfield said:
Be serious... The story of GEC is virtually the text book of how to destroy a successful company by short termism and asset stripping. And that's just one example. Austin Rover is another equally sad one. BHS more recent.TheWhiteRabbit said:
I'm intrigued by your description of the UK post-1977 - one of the world's most successful economies in that time - as "asset stripping"...Monksfield said:
It's an excellent article. The entire Tory philosophy since 1977 has been sell our country's assets down the river. Managed decline and asset stripping. And New Labour was happy to confer its assent through continuity policies. How can you take back control over this?Scott_P said:Paging Southam...
https://twitter.com/guardian/status/808567440036810752
What will happen when the CDEs realise they've been duped again by Bozo and assorted other demagogues? How do you deliver the outcome they want, which is better jobs, with higher pay? A question I've asked on here repeatedly in various guises and only had 1-2 attempts at an answer.
Oh, the City prospered but look at the cost? Levered to buggery, endless austerity and a housing market overvalued by 100% that we can't afford to reboot. Very successful!
You know where to look to see a well run economy, and they had to absorb the transformation of the East.
BBC1, BBC2, IBA1, IBA2, an asterisk and a blank.
But, for the best picture, ITV had to be on the 'BBC2' button, BBC1 on the blank, BBC2 on 'IBA1' etc.
You got used to it.
0 -
Indeed, and with the expectation that Tory election expenses saga will lead to criminal in at least one seat, you can see why Tory HQ didn't want to go near that minefield in Richmond.MikeSmithson said:
If Zac had been the CON candidate then UKIP would have almost certainly fielded a candidate which would have knocked 2-3% off his total. But the CON machine and database would have been available to him and it would have been closer. My guess is that he'd have won. His campaign as an independent was very much impeded by the lack of data which had a big impact on election day itself.TheScreamingEagles said:
FEWER not lessMarkHopkins said:David_Evershed said:If Mike is excluding Batley from his figures then he should also exclude Richmond where the Conservatives stood aside.
Would Goldsmith have got more or less votes as the Tory candidate?0 -
That's a very persuasive article.AlastairMeeks said:For an alternative view on the proposed appointment of Rex Tillerson:
http://www.arabnews.com/node/1022751/columns
Presumably the relevant Senate committee has been squared off, despite some ominous noises.
It's going to be a fascinating experiment in getting some heavy-hitting businessmen in to run key departments. It could go one way or the other, but many people have said that these depts are unfit for purpose right now, and at least the president-elect is willing to take a chance.0 -
Freedom of Information at its finest:
"You sent a number of seemingly reasonable requests with the apparent sole purpose of communicating rude subliminal messages in their subjects."
Applications Rejected Seeking Excessive House Of Lords Expenses
Tabulated Oxfordshire Social Services Early Retirement Statistics
Thames Water Added Trace Substances
Bus Operators' Luggage Limits On Corby-Kettering Services
etc.
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/user/delilah_cormorant_5
via @youngvulgarian0 -
The first one's got to be JackWTissue_Price said:Freedom of Information at its finest:
"You sent a number of seemingly reasonable requests with the apparent sole purpose of communicating rude subliminal messages in their subjects."
Applications Rejected Seeking Excessive House Of Lords Expenses
Tabulated Oxfordshire Social Services Early Retirement Statistics
Thames Water Added Trace Substances
Bus Operators' Luggage Limits On Corby-Kettering Services
etc.
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/user/delilah_cormorant_5
via @youngvulgarian0 -
Less/fewer?
It was a general comment on votes as a 'lump', and the exact count was not important. So 'less' probably works better in this case.
It's like "will you earn less money after this rail strike"?
0 -
Very much the ambassador for America Inc. Noteworthy about Tillerson: Very close to Putin and the security services faction in Russia. Strong supporter of the Trans Pacific Partnership that Trump campaigned against - I think he will be concerned about the US competitive influence against China. Strong ties with Arab countries and therefore not particularly interested in Israel.Tissue_Price said:
I'm wary of commenting too deeply, since I'd not heard of Tillerson before this week. But he certainly looks qualified for the role as Trump sees it and it will be very interesting to see how he handles the State Department, never mind the rest of the world.AlastairMeeks said:For an alternative view on the proposed appointment of Rex Tillerson:
http://www.arabnews.com/node/1022751/columns
Presumably the relevant Senate committee has been squared off, despite some ominous noises.0 -
Mike, would the counterfactual not be if the Tories had stood against Zac, given that the incumbent MP had already resigned from the party?MikeSmithson said:
If Zac had been the CON candidate then UKIP would have almost certainly fielded a candidate which would have knocked 2-3% off his total. But the CON machine and database would have been available to him and it would have been closer. My guess is that he'd have won. His campaign as an independent was very much impeded by the lack of data which had a big impact on election day itself.TheScreamingEagles said:
FEWER not lessMarkHopkins said:David_Evershed said:If Mike is excluding Batley from his figures then he should also exclude Richmond where the Conservatives stood aside.
Would Goldsmith have got more or less votes as the Tory candidate?
Do you think a Tory could have won, or would a split vote seen the LD come through even more emphatically?0 -
6 months ago that sentiment was expressed thus:rottenborough said:
I give him 12 months, before he finds it impossible to work with Trump. As CEO of one of the world's biggest companies his experience of how to deal with people and manage organizations will be completely different to Trump's methods of working.Tissue_Price said:
I'm wary of commenting too deeply, since I'd not heard of Tillerson before this week. But he certainly looks qualified for the role as Trump sees it and it will be very interesting to see how he handles the State Department, never mind the rest of the world.AlastairMeeks said:For an alternative view on the proposed appointment of Rex Tillerson:
http://www.arabnews.com/node/1022751/columns
Presumably the relevant Senate committee has been squared off, despite some ominous noises.
"Even if Trump wins he'll struggle to form a Cabinet. None of the best Republicans will want to be associated with the disaster of his administration and he'll have to fill important jobs with second-rate people."0 -
Tissue_Price said:
Major straw in the wind. She applied to be the candidate in the Oldham by-election IIRC.
https://twitter.com/KateGodfrey_/status/808624503685345280
Worrying for Lib Dems unless they want to be turned from freedom fighters into Labour Lite interventionists.
0 -
That's hillarious! I'd love to know the process by which the pattern was noticed though - complex data analysis software, or just someone pointing it out to them?Tissue_Price said:Freedom of Information at its finest:
"You sent a number of seemingly reasonable requests with the apparent sole purpose of communicating rude subliminal messages in their subjects."
Applications Rejected Seeking Excessive House Of Lords Expenses
Tabulated Oxfordshire Social Services Early Retirement Statistics
Thames Water Added Trace Substances
Bus Operators' Luggage Limits On Corby-Kettering Services
etc.
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/user/delilah_cormorant_5
via @youngvulgarian0 -
-
Joe Saward now reckons it's between the two favourites, also reckons Paddy Lowe does in fact have an MB contract next year.Morris_Dancer said:F1: more bibble-bobbling. Bottas remains favourite, Wehrlein close 2nd. Sainz had gone a bit longer.
Wehrlein now makes his (inexplicably late) entry onto the drivers' market (for the title). 17 isn't great compared to (as then) Bottas at 26 (currently 8) and Sainz 101.
https://joesaward.wordpress.com/2016/12/13/33062/0 -
It is clear that Labour are as divided over this as the rest of the country.Scott_P said:
Personally, I now think there is a good chance there won't be a Europe Union to leave by the time we get it sorted. The Italians and French are about to blow the whole thing up.0 -
In that case why not wait and save the hassle of a negotiated exit with something that won't exist?rottenborough said:Personally, I now think there is a good chance there won't be a Europe Union to leave by the time we get it sorted. The Italians and French are about to blow the whole thing up.
Needless to say I think this prediction is as wrong as your one about Trump.0 -
Still surprised nobody is offering odds on Luca Badoer getting Rosberg's old seat.Sandpit said:
Joe Saward now reckons it's between the two favourites, also reckons Paddy Lowe does in fact have an MB contract next year.Morris_Dancer said:F1: more bibble-bobbling. Bottas remains favourite, Wehrlein close 2nd. Sainz had gone a bit longer.
Wehrlein now makes his (inexplicably late) entry onto the drivers' market (for the title). 17 isn't great compared to (as then) Bottas at 26 (currently 8) and Sainz 101.
https://joesaward.wordpress.com/2016/12/13/33062/0 -
LOL. Yes, you are probably right. My predictions this year have been appalling except for the Leave vote winning, which was a handsome payout. Oh, and Ed Balls making it to the last few on Strictly.williamglenn said:
In that case why not wait and save the hassle of a negotiated exit with something that won't exist?rottenborough said:Personally, I now think there is a good chance there won't be a Europe Union to leave by the time we get it sorted. The Italians and French are about to blow the whole thing up.
Needless to say I think this prediction is as wrong as your one about Trump.0 -
Anyone noticing a pattern?dr_spyn said:Unite get into the Christmas spirit.
http://www.itv.com/news/2016-12-13/argos-delivery-drivers-to-strike-for-three-days-during-run-up-to-christmas/
0 -
Mr. Sandpit, cheers for that.
Best result for me would be Sainz, though the stakes are super low (but the bets long odds). Bottas should be eminently hedgeable, and Wehrlein means a small instant profit.
Reasonably pleased with how things stand.
I'd prefer (if I were making the decision) Bottas to Wehrlein.0 -
Mr. Eagles, not sure numbers go that high.
Incidentally, some South American journalists have reported Maldonado's in the frame. [I do not give such reports huge credence...].0 -
Not an option. Goldsmith was just a pillock. Who else resigns on a point of principle - only to find that all his opponents agree with him. "So - what else shall we talk about instead? Brexit?"MarkHopkins said:David_Evershed said:If Mike is excluding Batley from his figures then he should also exclude Richmond where the Conservatives stood aside.
Would Goldsmith have got more or less votes as the Tory candidate?
His lack of political nous was astonishing.0 -
Mr. Mark, be fair. Wasn't the biggest career-ending miscalculation an MP made this year...0
-
I'll give you 10/1, if you insist?TheScreamingEagles said:
Still surprised nobody is offering odds on Luca Badoer getting Rosberg's old seat.Sandpit said:
Joe Saward now reckons it's between the two favourites, also reckons Paddy Lowe does in fact have an MB contract next year.Morris_Dancer said:F1: more bibble-bobbling. Bottas remains favourite, Wehrlein close 2nd. Sainz had gone a bit longer.
Wehrlein now makes his (inexplicably late) entry onto the drivers' market (for the title). 17 isn't great compared to (as then) Bottas at 26 (currently 8) and Sainz 101.
https://joesaward.wordpress.com/2016/12/13/33062/ 0 -
LOL. If Maldonado were to get it, then Hammy should stand down so Grosjean could partner him at Mercedes. I doubt Merc would ever get a car past the first corner!Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Eagles, not sure numbers go that high.
Incidentally, some South American journalists have reported Maldonado's in the frame. [I do not give such reports huge credence...].0 -
Not even by an old Etonian....Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Mark, be fair. Wasn't the biggest career-ending miscalculation an MP made this year...
0 -
Mr. Jessop, going on recent performances, Vettel would be more error-prone than Grosjean.
https://twitter.com/Minicooper45/status/5888701206819307520 -
I'm not sure there wouldn't be a fight between Hamilton and Maldonado, after what happened at Spa a few years back!JosiasJessop said:
LOL. If Maldonado were to get it, then Hammy should stand down so Grosjean could partner him at Mercedes. I doubt Merc would ever get a car past the first corner!Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Eagles, not sure numbers go that high.
Incidentally, some South American journalists have reported Maldonado's in the frame. [I do not give such reports huge credence...].0 -
Anyway, time for me to be off.0
-
It could be worse.MaxPB said:I've been called a member of the globalist elite by someone at work today.
Apparently having a foreign girlfriend and moving to Switzerland qualifies me.
I've just spent 2 hours talking about lice.
(There are some very interesting vaccines against them in development at the moment)0 -
Even Philip Hammond?SeanT said:
Insane self harming bollocks. Also untrueScott_P said:
"My view, and that of probably most of the population now, is that Brexit is bad for Britain"
The latest YouGov poll showed LEAVE still has the same small majority.
Moreover, recent polling shows that 68% of Brits, Leave or Remain, think we should just get on with Brexiting.
Yes, 68%
https://twitter.com/montie/status/8069192242791055360 -
Yes. He's a politician, he can't defy the will of the people. Ropes and trees have been sought for less.logical_song said:
Even Philip Hammond?SeanT said:
Insane self harming bollocks. Also untrueScott_P said:
"My view, and that of probably most of the population now, is that Brexit is bad for Britain"
The latest YouGov poll showed LEAVE still has the same small majority.
Moreover, recent polling shows that 68% of Brits, Leave or Remain, think we should just get on with Brexiting.
Yes, 68%
https://twitter.com/montie/status/806919224279105536
0 -
Labour didnt/dont want to fight elections- whether the referendum in June, or locals or byelections, where is the desire for power that should be evident at this stage of the electoral cycle? They even managed to turn a win in the Scottish referendum into a defeat. Labour need to start showing that they are serious about gaining votes and I think the problem goes much deeper than JC.......at least Tony looked like he wanted to win (which I am not sure Brown was good at either). Voters will or have sensed this and it is potentially terminal - not even like we have euro elections as a consolation prize to look forward to....JC and the hierarchy must start articulating a position that is meaningful in the current climate.0
-
From the same poll: "Asked what outcome they would most like to see, remaining in the EU is picked by 31% of people, a “hard Brexit” falling back onto WTO rules is picked by 26%, a Canada style deal by 26%, and EFTA membership by 17%. Continuing EU membership is the first choice of most of those who voted Remain in June, followed by EFTA membership."SeanT said:Moreover, recent polling shows that 68% of Brits, Leave or Remain, think we should just get on with Brexiting.
0 -
The straw in the wind is that she CBA to fight for the party she claims to have believed in so hopes to undertake a takeover of another?AlastairMeeks said:
This is someone whose moniker used to be KateVotesLabour - so as you say, a straw in the wind worth taking note of.Tissue_Price said:Major straw in the wind. She applied to be the candidate in the Oldham by-election IIRC.
https://twitter.com/KateGodfrey_/status/8086245036853452800 -
It's certainly self-harming for Labour. I suggest Wolmar joins the Lib Dems given his views; Labour would be better off "backing Brexit" on democratic grounds, helping to expedite it, and waiting for things to go wrong (whether or not they can be directly attributed to Brexit).SeanT said:Insane self harming bollocks. Also untrue
"My view, and that of probably most of the population now, is that Brexit is bad for Britain"
The latest YouGov poll showed LEAVE still has the same small majority.
Moreover, recent polling shows that 68% of Brits, Leave or Remain, think we should just get on with Brexiting.
Yes, 68%0 -
Someone should put in a Freedom of Information request to ask how much those cost.Tissue_Price said:Freedom of Information at its finest:
"You sent a number of seemingly reasonable requests with the apparent sole purpose of communicating rude subliminal messages in their subjects."
Applications Rejected Seeking Excessive House Of Lords Expenses
Tabulated Oxfordshire Social Services Early Retirement Statistics
Thames Water Added Trace Substances
Bus Operators' Luggage Limits On Corby-Kettering Services
etc.
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/user/delilah_cormorant_5
via @youngvulgarian
My council tax went towards answering these:
"We were asked how many drawing pins the council owns, and how many of those are presently installed in pinboards. Others have asked how much we have spent on biscuits for council meetings or on bottled water in a year."
"Ken Thornber, leader of Hampshire County Council, said: "We spent £365,000 in 2010 answering freedom of information requests. What else could I do with that money? More social workers, more school inspectors, more spent on road maintenance."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/9149322/What-price-freedom-of-information.html
0 -
But only 26% want a hard Brexit.SeanT said:
Yes, remarkable. Only 31% now want to stay in the EU, after the vote.williamglenn said:
From the same poll: "Asked what outcome they would most like to see, remaining in the EU is picked by 31% of people, a “hard Brexit” falling back onto WTO rules is picked by 26%, a Canada style deal by 26%, and EFTA membership by 17%. Continuing EU membership is the first choice of most of those who voted Remain in June, followed by EFTA membership."SeanT said:Moreover, recent polling shows that 68% of Brits, Leave or Remain, think we should just get on with Brexiting.
That's the bitter reality for hardcore Remoaners. The country is firmly against them.0 -
That's the wrong way to interpret the figure. Almost a third of people in one of the oldest democracies in the world want to overturn the result of an election. That shows the depth of support for remaining in the EU, and it will only grow as the intractable problems of Brexit stubbornly refuse to go away. That's the bitter reality for starry-eyed Brexiteers.SeanT said:
Yes, remarkable. Only 31% now want to stay in the EU, after the vote.williamglenn said:
From the same poll: "Asked what outcome they would most like to see, remaining in the EU is picked by 31% of people, a “hard Brexit” falling back onto WTO rules is picked by 26%, a Canada style deal by 26%, and EFTA membership by 17%. Continuing EU membership is the first choice of most of those who voted Remain in June, followed by EFTA membership."SeanT said:Moreover, recent polling shows that 68% of Brits, Leave or Remain, think we should just get on with Brexiting.
That's the bitter reality for hardcore Remoaners. The country is firmly against them.0 -
Which is why this place is not representative of real life. We have hardcore Remainers who want to stay in the EU via some undemocratic means vs leavers who would pick the least popular choice of leaving (EFTA at 17%).SeanT said:
Yes, remarkable. Only 31% now want to stay in the EU, after the vote.williamglenn said:
From the same poll: "Asked what outcome they would most like to see, remaining in the EU is picked by 31% of people, a “hard Brexit” falling back onto WTO rules is picked by 26%, a Canada style deal by 26%, and EFTA membership by 17%. Continuing EU membership is the first choice of most of those who voted Remain in June, followed by EFTA membership."SeanT said:Moreover, recent polling shows that 68% of Brits, Leave or Remain, think we should just get on with Brexiting.
That's the bitter reality for hardcore Remoaners. The country is firmly against them.0 -
Poll on energy storage:
https://www.theengineer.co.uk/this-weeks-poll-electricity-storage-in-the-uk/?cmpid=tenews_29002980 -
Once we've left that 31% will diminish, not grow. Eventually remain turns into re-entry and that will garner just 15-20% initially and eventually under 10%.williamglenn said:
That's the wrong way to interpret the figure. Almost a third of people in one of the oldest democracies in the world want to overturn the result of an election. That shows the depth of support for remaining in the EU, and it will only grow as the intractable problems of Brexit stubbornly refuse to go away. That's the bitter reality for starry-eyed Brexiteers.SeanT said:
Yes, remarkable. Only 31% now want to stay in the EU, after the vote.williamglenn said:
From the same poll: "Asked what outcome they would most like to see, remaining in the EU is picked by 31% of people, a “hard Brexit” falling back onto WTO rules is picked by 26%, a Canada style deal by 26%, and EFTA membership by 17%. Continuing EU membership is the first choice of most of those who voted Remain in June, followed by EFTA membership."SeanT said:Moreover, recent polling shows that 68% of Brits, Leave or Remain, think we should just get on with Brexiting.
That's the bitter reality for hardcore Remoaners. The country is firmly against them.0 -
Agree. I voted Labour, Remain and back Brexit on democratic grounds. There are quite a few of us.Tissue_Price said:
It's certainly self-harming for Labour. I suggest Wolmar joins the Lib Dems given his views; Labour would be better off "backing Brexit" on democratic grounds, helping to expedite it, and waiting for things to go wrong (whether or not they can be directly attributed to Brexit).SeanT said:Insane self harming bollocks. Also untrue
"My view, and that of probably most of the population now, is that Brexit is bad for Britain"
The latest YouGov poll showed LEAVE still has the same small majority.
Moreover, recent polling shows that 68% of Brits, Leave or Remain, think we should just get on with Brexiting.
Yes, 68%0 -
And includes most of our press corps.SeanT said:
Sure. I don't want hard Brexit either.logical_song said:
But only 26% want a hard Brexit.SeanT said:
Yes, remarkable. Only 31% now want to stay in the EU, after the vote.williamglenn said:
From the same poll: "Asked what outcome they would most like to see, remaining in the EU is picked by 31% of people, a “hard Brexit” falling back onto WTO rules is picked by 26%, a Canada style deal by 26%, and EFTA membership by 17%. Continuing EU membership is the first choice of most of those who voted Remain in June, followed by EFTA membership."SeanT said:Moreover, recent polling shows that 68% of Brits, Leave or Remain, think we should just get on with Brexiting.
That's the bitter reality for hardcore Remoaners. The country is firmly against them.
Incidentally these stats tally with my personal experience: most of my Remainer friends have accepted the vote, and - reluctantly or not - decided we must get on with it. Many of them recognise that ignoring the vote, or reversing it, would be far more damaging to British democracy and politics, and therefore Britain iself, than any economic harm done by Leaving.
The diehard Remainers are a fast dwindling minority. But noisy.0 -
That's the operative clause. You still think we're leaving. The reality is that we haven't yet even made a constitutional decision to leave, let alone left.MaxPB said:
Once we've left...williamglenn said:
That's the wrong way to interpret the figure. Almost a third of people in one of the oldest democracies in the world want to overturn the result of an election. That shows the depth of support for remaining in the EU, and it will only grow as the intractable problems of Brexit stubbornly refuse to go away. That's the bitter reality for starry-eyed Brexiteers.SeanT said:
Yes, remarkable. Only 31% now want to stay in the EU, after the vote.williamglenn said:
From the same poll: "Asked what outcome they would most like to see, remaining in the EU is picked by 31% of people, a “hard Brexit” falling back onto WTO rules is picked by 26%, a Canada style deal by 26%, and EFTA membership by 17%. Continuing EU membership is the first choice of most of those who voted Remain in June, followed by EFTA membership."SeanT said:Moreover, recent polling shows that 68% of Brits, Leave or Remain, think we should just get on with Brexiting.
That's the bitter reality for hardcore Remoaners. The country is firmly against them.0 -
You are completely delusional.williamglenn said:
That's the operative clause. You still think we're leaving. The reality is that we haven't yet even made a constitutional decision to leave, let alone left.MaxPB said:
Once we've left...williamglenn said:
That's the wrong way to interpret the figure. Almost a third of people in one of the oldest democracies in the world want to overturn the result of an election. That shows the depth of support for remaining in the EU, and it will only grow as the intractable problems of Brexit stubbornly refuse to go away. That's the bitter reality for starry-eyed Brexiteers.SeanT said:
Yes, remarkable. Only 31% now want to stay in the EU, after the vote.williamglenn said:
From the same poll: "Asked what outcome they would most like to see, remaining in the EU is picked by 31% of people, a “hard Brexit” falling back onto WTO rules is picked by 26%, a Canada style deal by 26%, and EFTA membership by 17%. Continuing EU membership is the first choice of most of those who voted Remain in June, followed by EFTA membership."SeanT said:Moreover, recent polling shows that 68% of Brits, Leave or Remain, think we should just get on with Brexiting.
That's the bitter reality for hardcore Remoaners. The country is firmly against them.0 -
Just imagine the reaction had the referendum been on those four options with that result. My guess is that some hitherto firm supporters of FPTP might be converted to that titan of electoral systems, AV!williamglenn said:
From the same poll: "Asked what outcome they would most like to see, remaining in the EU is picked by 31% of people, a “hard Brexit” falling back onto WTO rules is picked by 26%, a Canada style deal by 26%, and EFTA membership by 17%. Continuing EU membership is the first choice of most of those who voted Remain in June, followed by EFTA membership."SeanT said:Moreover, recent polling shows that 68% of Brits, Leave or Remain, think we should just get on with Brexiting.
0 -
And you call others "starry-eyed"!williamglenn said:
That's the operative clause. You still think we're leaving. The reality is that we haven't yet even made a constitutional decision to leave, let alone left.MaxPB said:
Once we've left...williamglenn said:
That's the wrong way to interpret the figure. Almost a third of people in one of the oldest democracies in the world want to overturn the result of an election. That shows the depth of support for remaining in the EU, and it will only grow as the intractable problems of Brexit stubbornly refuse to go away. That's the bitter reality for starry-eyed Brexiteers.SeanT said:
Yes, remarkable. Only 31% now want to stay in the EU, after the vote.williamglenn said:
From the same poll: "Asked what outcome they would most like to see, remaining in the EU is picked by 31% of people, a “hard Brexit” falling back onto WTO rules is picked by 26%, a Canada style deal by 26%, and EFTA membership by 17%. Continuing EU membership is the first choice of most of those who voted Remain in June, followed by EFTA membership."SeanT said:Moreover, recent polling shows that 68% of Brits, Leave or Remain, think we should just get on with Brexiting.
That's the bitter reality for hardcore Remoaners. The country is firmly against them.0 -
I would divide Brexit opinions as follows:
1. Bad. Bad. Bad. Brexit is a bad idea and we should do everything we can to stop it. The Tim Farrons.
2. We are we are. The country has voted for Brexit so we need to make it happen with the least damage possible. Phil Hammond.
3. Brexit will be great Nothing to worry about. We have a great future in front of us. No need to compromise or to do deals. We will get everything we want. David Davis.
4. We're being robbed The EU, Remoaners, the liberal elite will do everything to ensure Brexit will be a failure. Nigel Farage.
There is no consensus to proceed on. Personally I go for (2) - making the best of it. That however requires people to accept Brexit is entirely about damage limitation AND despite that it will go ahead anyway. Not an attractive line to sign up to for either Remainers or Leavers.SeanT said:
Insane self harming bollocks. Also untrue
"My view, and that of probably most of the population now, is that Brexit is bad for Britain"
The latest YouGov poll showed LEAVE still has the same small majority.
Moreover, recent polling shows that 68% of Brits, Leave or Remain, think we should just get on with Brexiting.
Yes, 68%
https://twitter.com/montie/status/806919224279105536
0 -
Past vote but it also asked a current VI which showed no change on the result, but based on YouGov's error it could mean a small swing to leave.Andy_Cooke said:0
![[Deleted User]](https://wd.vanillicon.com/d2ea526b1b06ed109333f390c7ae956b_100.png)
