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SystemSystem Posts: 12,597
edited December 2016 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Trump the Time magazine “Person of the Year” – it is hard to disagree

Donald Trump is TIME's Person of the Year 2016 #TIMEPOY https://t.co/5pTGOksevE pic.twitter.com/N8BtqTu9Nl

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  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,010
    ‪From 2015‬

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/674587800835092480
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,230
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    ‪From 2015‬

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/674587800835092480

    Donald misunderstanding it's not necessarily an 'award' or just that he wants to be seen to be huuuge, regardless of whether it is for good or bad reasons?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,010
    edited December 2016
    Big thank you to Paddy Power 1/2 when Shadsy was offering 1/5
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,776
    FPT: Mr. Eagles, you can't discount the events of 2016 when looking at earlier concepts. It's like when RTD buggered up Who canon with the Time War or when the new trilogy threw out the Star Wars Expanded Universe.

    Alas, poor Grand Admiral Thrawn.

    On-topic: could make a case for Farage, given the EU vote and his intervention for Trump.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,872
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Big thank you to Paddy Power 1/5 when Shadsy was offering 1/10

    Paddy was 1-2, Ladbrokes was 1-5.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    I can't help feeling that, had she won, Hillary would equally have been president of the 'Divided States of America', although I suspect that Time magazine would not have made the point.

    I wonder whom they would have chosen if Hillary had won?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,314
    edited December 2016
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    ‪From 2015‬

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/674587800835092480

    The chemistry between Trump and Merkel will be fascinating.

    He's said far harsher things about people he's subsequently given jobs to so no-one should read into his tweets that he really is a convinced opponent of anything Merkel stands for.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,010
    Pulpstar said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Big thank you to Paddy Power 1/5 when Shadsy was offering 1/10

    Paddy was 1-2, Ladbrokes was 1-5.
    Yeah fixed now.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,872
    So, how much was everyone able to get on :p ?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,010
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    I can't help feeling that, had she won, Hillary would equally have been president of the 'Divided States of America', although I suspect that Time magazine would not have made the point.

    I wonder whom they would have chosen if Hillary had won?

    Hasn't every new POTUS in the last 40 years has won except George Bush Senior who lost out to the endangered Earth.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,230
    williamglenn said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    ‪From 2015‬

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/674587800835092480

    The chemistry between Trump and Merkel will be fascinating.

    He's said far harsher things about people he's subsequently given jobs to so no-one should read into his tweets that he really is a convinced opponent of anything Merkel stands for.
    She stands for bettering Germany, he stands for bettering the USA - they may both do good or bad jobs of it, and in very different styles, but I'm sure they can appreciate putting your country above all else.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,010
    Pulpstar said:

    So, how much was everyone able to get on :p ?

    £20 in shop.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Time - another sore loser with butthurt.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    Pulpstar said:

    So, how much was everyone able to get on :p ?

    Paddy allowed me the same as they allowed you.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,314
    edited December 2016
    kle4 said:

    williamglenn said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    ‪From 2015‬

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/674587800835092480

    The chemistry between Trump and Merkel will be fascinating.

    He's said far harsher things about people he's subsequently given jobs to so no-one should read into his tweets that he really is a convinced opponent of anything Merkel stands for.
    She stands for bettering Germany, he stands for bettering the USA - they may both do good or bad jobs of it, and in very different styles, but I'm sure they can appreciate putting your country above all else.
    I meant, to use a term du jour, on the international plane. A lot of Eurosceptics are convinced that Trump hates the EU, simply on the basis that he was happy to associate himself with the Brexit vote. It ain't necessarily so.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    edited December 2016
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Hasn't every new POTUS in the last 40 years has won except George Bush Senior who lost out to the endangered Earth.

    Something like that, which is one reason why I was sure it would be Trump.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,160
    5...4...3...2...1....Trump tweets he hates the picture.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,091
    edited December 2016
    Yay, 1/2 from yesterday comes in. Thanks Paddy!
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,314
    Keir Starmer: This motion does not give authority to trigger Article 50.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,872
    Clinton will probably pass Obama's '12 vote total !

    Trump's needle:

    Margin/(Swing*2)

    FL: 0.9%/2.1%
    MI: 9.5%/9.7%
    PA: 5.4%/6.1%
    WI: 6.9%/7.7%
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 18,357
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    I can't help feeling that, had she won, Hillary would equally have been president of the 'Divided States of America', although I suspect that Time magazine would not have made the point.

    I wonder whom they would have chosen if Hillary had won?

    Her, almost certainly. "Madam President".
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,776
    Anyway, time for me to be off. Cheers to Mr. Slackbladder for his comment on tax on the other thread (and Miss Plato).
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    williamglenn said:

    Keir Starmer: This motion does not give authority to trigger Article 50.

    (but we will support that one too..)

  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 33,484
    Quick OT public service announcement.

    If like me you keep chickens, ducks or other birds, even if only a few, please be aware that as of this morning there is now a country wide prevention zone in force across England. All birds must be kept under cover/indoors and separated from any possible contact with wild birds.

    This is due to the very nasty (for birds) avian flu outbreak on the continent. It is not yet present in the UK but the fear is it is only a matter of time.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-measures-to-protect-poultry-against-avian-flu
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,010
    https://twitter.com/DPRK_News/status/806487021938241536
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Basks in Trump sun-lamp rays.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,314
    PlatoSaid said:

    Basks in Trump sun-lamp rays.

    Careful you don't turn orange.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @JoeWatts_: Tory MP Crispin Blunt just described the EU as "the enemy" #brexit
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,321
    Any presidential vote in The USA results in a divided state.
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    williamglenn said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Basks in Trump sun-lamp rays.

    Careful you don't turn orange.
    I resemble Pocahontas when tanned - my nickname as a kid as I'd plaits too. I even had a very Rachel Welch chamois leather dress back in the 80s....
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 18,357
    dr_spyn said:

    Any presidential vote in The USA results in a divided state.

    There are degrees of division though. 2016 was certainly the most divisive in my lifetime. When was the last that was as bad? 1968 would be one contender? If not that, then which?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,010
    david_herdson said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Any presidential vote in The USA results in a divided state.

    There are degrees of division though. 2016 was certainly the most divisive in my lifetime. When was the last that was as bad? 1968 would be one contender? If not that, then which?
    2000, although that was due to the post vote situation.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 10,216
    David Davis: 'I don't know what "Hard Brexit" means'

    Really?
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,321
    edited December 2016
    david_herdson said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Any presidential vote in The USA results in a divided state.

    There are degrees of division though. 2016 was certainly the most divisive in my lifetime. When was the last that was as bad? 1968 would be one contender? If not that, then which?

    Goldwater 1964, hard to consider a more divisive candidate other than George Wallace. Ronald Reagan was almost portrayed as the devil incarnate, but as you say there are different degrees of division.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    re Labour's new customs union policy - does that mean they don't want new free trade deals with the rest of the world ?

    http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2016/11/26/what-are-the-negotiating-aims-of-the-eu-27/

    "The UK’s position is very easy to grasp for anyone who read the referendum ballot paper or has listened to the Prime Minister. The UK is going to leave the EU. There is no such thing as a single market we can remain in on leaving, and no-one on the Vote Leave campaign suggested there was. As the Uk wishes outside the EU to negotiate trade agreements with non EU countries we clearly will not be in the Customs union. The PM has ruled out EEA membership. This means there is not a lot to negotiate. We will not negotiate our independence with the rest of the EU – that is an absurd contradiction. We will offer them no new barriers to their trade with us, and I expect after a lot of huffing and puffing they will want to accept that offer. If they don’t we will trade with them as most favoured nation under WTO rules, and they will be the big losers on tariffs as a result."
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    ‪From 2015‬

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/674587800835092480

    They did pick Adolf Hitler twice and Stalin also twice too, in 1938 the POTY was described as the greatest ever threat to democracy...

  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,455
    Stark_Dawning said:

    David Davis: 'I don't know what "Hard Brexit" means'

    Really?

    I don't know what it means either.
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    That's put the cat amongst the pigeons

    Paul Joseph Watson
    Buzzfeed is close to becoming the left-wing Stormfront. https://t.co/8PGo1vaEr8
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    TheWhiteRabbit said:

    Stark_Dawning said:

    David Davis: 'I don't know what "Hard Brexit" means'

    Really?

    I don't know what it means either.
    It means "Brexit".

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,010
    Should I take the 10/1 on Chris Grayling as next to leave the cabinet in light of the below?

    https://twitter.com/JoeMurphyLondon/status/806481461864001536
    https://twitter.com/daily_politics/status/806484087024263168
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    TGOHF said:

    re Labour's new customs union policy - does that mean they don't want new free trade deals with the rest of the world ?

    It means that they, probably rightly, consider that the minor disadvantage of not being able to negotiate our own trade deals is outweighed by the humongous advantage of not wrecking our car industry.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Stark_Dawning said:

    David Davis: 'I don't know what "Hard Brexit" means'

    Really?

    Surely Hard Brexit means Hard Brexit means red, white and blue Brexit?
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Should I take the 10/1 on Chris Grayling as next to leave the cabinet in light of the below?

    I don't see anything wrong in his position.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    Scott_P said:

    @JoeWatts_: Tory MP Crispin Blunt just described the EU as "the enemy" #brexit

    He was using the military metaphor that 'no plan survives intact first contact with the enemy'....

    Not the happiest of metaphors, but he didn't really call the EU 'the enemy'.....
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,872
    edited December 2016
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Should I take the 10/1 on Chris Grayling as next to leave the cabinet in light of the below?

    It's a decision only you can make, anything under ~ 18-1 you need a damned good reason to though. I've made an exception once on this general rule for Dr Fox @10-1, because he is a) Liam Fox and b) it was a free bet from the Sun.

    Whats yr cumulative book on the contenders so far.

    I am 25s Greening, 10s Fox.

    I think adding too many feels a bit muggy.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,488
    Stark_Dawning said:

    David Davis: 'I don't know what "Hard Brexit" means'

    Really?

    At least we know what colours it'll be.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    TGOHF said:

    re Labour's new customs union policy - does that mean they don't want new free trade deals with the rest of the world ?

    It means that they, probably rightly, consider that the minor disadvantage of not being able to negotiate our own trade deals is outweighed by the humongous advantage of not wrecking our car industry.
    Under what circumstances would the EU invoke tariffs on our car industry that wouldn't result in the mutual destruction of a multitude of their industries ?

    Be realistic..
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    TGOHF said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    TGOHF said:

    re Labour's new customs union policy - does that mean they don't want new free trade deals with the rest of the world ?

    It means that they, probably rightly, consider that the minor disadvantage of not being able to negotiate our own trade deals is outweighed by the humongous advantage of not wrecking our car industry.
    Under what circumstances would the EU invoke tariffs on our car industry that wouldn't result in the mutual destruction of a multitude of their industries ?

    Be realistic..
    Who said anything about tariffs?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,872
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    TGOHF said:

    re Labour's new customs union policy - does that mean they don't want new free trade deals with the rest of the world ?

    It means that they, probably rightly, consider that the minor disadvantage of not being able to negotiate our own trade deals is outweighed by the humongous advantage of not wrecking our car industry.
    I think its definitely something we want to end up with, but I'm not sure the government pre-agreeing to it strengthens their negotiation hand with the EU. It might be a poor, potentially massively backfiring bargaining chip but a shown two of clubs on the table is inferior to one kept in hand.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,010
    edited December 2016
    Pulpstar said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Should I take the 10/1 on Chris Grayling as next to leave the cabinet in light of the below?

    It's a decision only you can make, anything under ~ 18-1 you need a damned good reason to though. I've made an exception once on this general rule for Dr Fox @10-1, because he is a) Liam Fox and b) it was a free bet from the Sun.

    Whats yr cumulative book on the contenders so far.

    I am 25s Greening, 10s Fox.

    I think adding too many feels a bit muggy.
    I think I'm on Fox at 10/1 and Hammond at 25/1
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,314
    foxinsoxuk said:

    Stark_Dawning said:

    David Davis: 'I don't know what "Hard Brexit" means'

    Really?

    Surely Hard Brexit means Hard Brexit means red, white and blue Brexit?
    John Galliano Brexit as opposed to the softer Christian Dior Brexit.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,872
    Or to put it another way, Verhofstadt (I think ?) sits down

    "So you want to stay in the customs union, indeed need to do so to pass this through your parliament. What are you prepared to offer in return for that ?"

    Laudable as it may be we don't want to hand all our 'twos' to strengthen the EU's hand.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,010
    Oh Lord, Louise Mensch is opining on the Supreme Court case
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    edited December 2016
    Pulpstar said:

    Or to put it another way, Verhofstadt (I think ?) sits down

    "So you want to stay in the customs union, indeed need to do so to pass this through your parliament. What are you prepared to offer in return for that ?"

    Laudable as it may be we don't want to hand all our 'twos' to strengthen the EU's hand.

    As TGOHF point out, our EU friends will be just as keen as us not to wreck their car-industry supply-chains. The German car industry alone uses parts from over 100 UK manufacturing sites. So it could be a logical outcome, and one which could be presented to domestic audiences rather neatly:

    EU politicians: "See! We said no cherry-picking, and the UK is no longer in the Single Market! It is reduced to the status of Turkey!"

    UK politicians: "See! We said we could protect out exporters, and this gives us tariff-free, zero paperwork access to the Single Market! And without having to concede control of our borders or submit to the jurisdiction of the ECJ."

    So there could be a basis of part of a deal there. Services would remain the big stumbling-block, of course.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,488
    edited December 2016
    williamglenn said:

    foxinsoxuk said:

    Stark_Dawning said:

    David Davis: 'I don't know what "Hard Brexit" means'

    Really?

    Surely Hard Brexit means Hard Brexit means red, white and blue Brexit?
    John Galliano Brexit as opposed to the softer Christian Dior Brexit.
    Even then, is that earlier drunken, anti-semite Galliano, or later cleaned-up, penitent JG?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    Interestingly Thornberry committed Labour to staying inside the customs union—which would mean that the UK could not do any comprehensive free-trade deals post Brexit. Indeed, if Britain stays inside the customs union, it really won’t be Brexit in the proper sense of the word.

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/12/pmqs-emily-thornberrys-battle-customs-union/
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,314
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Oh Lord, Louise Mensch is opining on the Supreme Court case

    https://twitter.com/LouiseMensch/status/806493370419998721
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Or to put it another way, Verhofstadt (I think ?) sits down

    "So you want to stay in the customs union, indeed need to do so to pass this through your parliament. What are you prepared to offer in return for that ?"

    Laudable as it may be we don't want to hand all our 'twos' to strengthen the EU's hand.

    As TGOHF point out, our EU friends will be just as keen not to wreck their car-industry supply-chains. So it could be a logical outcome, and one which could be presented to domestic audiences rather neatly:

    EU politicians: "See! We said no cherry-picking, and the UK is no longer in the Single Market! It is reduced to the status of Turkey!"

    UK politicians: "See! We said we could protect out exporters, and this gives us tariff-free, zero paperwork access to the Single Market! And without having to concede control of our borders or submit to the jurisdiction of the ECJ."

    So there could be a basis of part of a deal there. Services would remain the big stumbling-block, of course.
    The general rule of a good deal is that both parties agree it is a good deal.

    In practice I think trade in manufactured goods and agricultural produce will be tarrif and barrier free, but services and other parts will be outside the single market. Hard Brexit plus cars and food in other words.

  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 44,131
    CarlottaVance said:

    Interestingly Thornberry committed Labour to staying inside the customs union—which would mean that the UK could not do any comprehensive free-trade deals post Brexit. Indeed, if Britain stays inside the customs union, it really won’t be Brexit in the proper sense of the word.

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/12/pmqs-emily-thornberrys-battle-customs-union/

    No single market no customs union or a large number of Brexiters will feel it is not their kind of Brexit.

    (They will be the same people of course who constantly whined about how it was "up to the government" to determine Brexit.)

    It's fair game for the moderate bit of Labour to have a go at it.

  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 5,045
    CarlottaVance said:

    Interestingly Thornberry committed Labour to staying inside the customs union—which would mean that the UK could not do any comprehensive free-trade deals post Brexit. Indeed, if Britain stays inside the customs union, it really won’t be Brexit in the proper sense of the word.

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/12/pmqs-emily-thornberrys-battle-customs-union/

    Oh, goody, someone else confusing their opinion with the meaning of words.

    Would the UK remain a member of the European Union if we did this?
    If "yes", it isn't Brexit.
    If "no", it is Brexit.

    Anything else is personal opinion and wasn't on the ballot paper.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,091
    Pulpstar said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    TGOHF said:

    re Labour's new customs union policy - does that mean they don't want new free trade deals with the rest of the world ?

    It means that they, probably rightly, consider that the minor disadvantage of not being able to negotiate our own trade deals is outweighed by the humongous advantage of not wrecking our car industry.
    I think its definitely something we want to end up with, but I'm not sure the government pre-agreeing to it strengthens their negotiation hand with the EU. It might be a poor, potentially massively backfiring bargaining chip but a shown two of clubs on the table is inferior to one kept in hand.
    That's the whole point that a lot of people don't get - that specific details of desired outcomes from negotiations publicly stated in advance of them starting, is sending our troops into battle with one hand tied behind their back.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,010
    NSFW

    https://twitter.com/SheldanKeay/status/806495834548346880
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    foxinsoxuk said:

    In practice I think trade in manufactured goods and agricultural produce will be tarrif and barrier free, but services and other parts will be outside the single market. Hard Brexit plus cars and food in other words.

    That's certainly what would make sense. However, 'barrier-free' means customs union, otherwise you have to have customs checks, certificates of origin and all that dross. That's a pain if you're running a tight supply chain, or if you're a small company without the necessary customs-documentation expertise.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,488
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    NSFW

    https://twitter.com/SheldanKeay/status/806495834548346880

    More handbags than an Hermès store.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,194
    TOPPING said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    Interestingly Thornberry committed Labour to staying inside the customs union—which would mean that the UK could not do any comprehensive free-trade deals post Brexit. Indeed, if Britain stays inside the customs union, it really won’t be Brexit in the proper sense of the word.

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/12/pmqs-emily-thornberrys-battle-customs-union/

    No single market no customs union or a large number of Brexiters will feel it is not their kind of Brexit.

    (They will be the same people of course who constantly whined about how it was "up to the government" to determine Brexit.)

    It's fair game for the moderate bit of Labour to have a go at it.

    Which will totally prove our point then, won't it?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,010
    Theuniondivvie said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    NSFW

    https://twitter.com/SheldanKeay/status/806495834548346880

    More handbags than an Hermès store.
    Less realistic than a WWE bout
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,000
    Yep that was not one of the difficult ones was it?

    Slightly more difficult, and relevant to the last thread, is the Supreme Court decision on Brexit. I was gainfully employed this morning and didn't see it but the chat at lunch was that Pannick got a bit of a doing this morning. Is there value in the government winning? Maybe there is.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    Andy_Cooke said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    Interestingly Thornberry committed Labour to staying inside the customs union—which would mean that the UK could not do any comprehensive free-trade deals post Brexit. Indeed, if Britain stays inside the customs union, it really won’t be Brexit in the proper sense of the word.

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/12/pmqs-emily-thornberrys-battle-customs-union/

    Oh, goody, someone else confusing their opinion with the meaning of words.

    Would the UK remain a member of the European Union if we did this?
    If "yes", it isn't Brexit.
    If "no", it is Brexit.

    Anything else is personal opinion and wasn't on the ballot paper.
    There is already precedent in the British Isles - the Channel Islands are in the Customs Union, but are not in the EU and have controls on immigration.....
  • nunununu Posts: 6,024
    williamglenn said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    ‪From 2015‬

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/674587800835092480

    The chemistry between Trump and Merkel will be fascinating.

    He's said far harsher things about people he's subsequently given jobs to so no-one should read into his tweets that he really is a convinced opponent of anything Merkel stands for.
    Yes, yes, yes, we know we shouldn't take him seriously or literally.

    One day someone will.........
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Oh Lord, Louise Mensch is opining on the Supreme Court case

    If Louise Mensch's opinion is that the Supreme Court should caption the barrister or judge speaking, and mute the microphones of everyone else (especially if they have a hacking cough) then she is entirely correct.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,872
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Or to put it another way, Verhofstadt (I think ?) sits down

    "So you want to stay in the customs union, indeed need to do so to pass this through your parliament. What are you prepared to offer in return for that ?"

    Laudable as it may be we don't want to hand all our 'twos' to strengthen the EU's hand.

    As TGOHF point out, our EU friends will be just as keen as us not to wreck their car-industry supply-chains. The German car industry alone uses parts from over 100 UK manufacturing sites. So it could be a logical outcome, and one which could be presented to domestic audiences rather neatly:

    EU politicians: "See! We said no cherry-picking, and the UK is no longer in the Single Market! It is reduced to the status of Turkey!"

    UK politicians: "See! We said we could protect out exporters, and this gives us tariff-free, zero paperwork access to the Single Market! And without having to concede control of our borders or submit to the jurisdiction of the ECJ."

    So there could be a basis of part of a deal there. Services would remain the big stumbling-block, of course.
    Our being in the customs union is "bigger" to us than it is to Europe. Even if this isn't the case, you shouldn't explicitly state that you 'need' to be in it.

    All stems from Cameron's decision not to make the referendum legally binding anyhow...

    Who was advising him on that ?
  • nunununu Posts: 6,024
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    https://twitter.com/DPRK_News/status/806487021938241536

    Is that real? I mean is the North korean government really putiing that out.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,872
    DavidL said:

    Yep that was not one of the difficult ones was it?

    Slightly more difficult, and relevant to the last thread, is the Supreme Court decision on Brexit. I was gainfully employed this morning and didn't see it but the chat at lunch was that Pannick got a bit of a doing this morning. Is there value in the government winning? Maybe there is.

    Which of the judges was doing the doing ?
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 10,216
    TOPPING said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    Interestingly Thornberry committed Labour to staying inside the customs union—which would mean that the UK could not do any comprehensive free-trade deals post Brexit. Indeed, if Britain stays inside the customs union, it really won’t be Brexit in the proper sense of the word.

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/12/pmqs-emily-thornberrys-battle-customs-union/

    No single market no customs union or a large number of Brexiters will feel it is not their kind of Brexit.

    (They will be the same people of course who constantly whined about how it was "up to the government" to determine Brexit.)

    It's fair game for the moderate bit of Labour to have a go at it.

    At what point, in the minds of some, did 'Brexit' become a synonym for 'Farageism'? It certainly wasn't during the campaign - in fact Leave were at great pains to assert that Farageism was merely a scare tactic of Project Fear. Yet, thereafter Farageism acquired the status of Leave orthodoxy. It would interesting to pinpoint where and how this came about.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @paulwaugh: IDS in Brexit motion debate: "I'd rather stay in [the EU], than stay in the Customs Union..."
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,488
    edited December 2016
    Someone on Twitter just suggested that the M above the Don's napper resembles horns and Time are on the troll. Is it really obvious and are my visual sensibilities somewhat blunt today?
  • Innocent_AbroadInnocent_Abroad Posts: 3,294
    Stark_Dawning said:

    TOPPING said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    Interestingly Thornberry committed Labour to staying inside the customs union—which would mean that the UK could not do any comprehensive free-trade deals post Brexit. Indeed, if Britain stays inside the customs union, it really won’t be Brexit in the proper sense of the word.

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/12/pmqs-emily-thornberrys-battle-customs-union/

    No single market no customs union or a large number of Brexiters will feel it is not their kind of Brexit.

    (They will be the same people of course who constantly whined about how it was "up to the government" to determine Brexit.)

    It's fair game for the moderate bit of Labour to have a go at it.

    At what point, in the minds of some, did 'Brexit' become a synonym for 'Farageism'? It certainly wasn't during the campaign - in fact Leave were at great pains to assert that Farageism was merely a scare tactic of Project Fear. Yet, thereafter Farageism acquired the status of Leave orthodoxy. It would interesting to pinpoint where and how this came about.
    In Farage's mind - while he was in his mama's womb. Of course.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,010
    nunu said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    https://twitter.com/DPRK_News/status/806487021938241536

    Is that real? I mean is the North korean government really putiing that out.
    No, a very funny spoof account
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,010
    Theuniondivvie said:

    Someone on Twitter just suggested that the M above the Don's napper resembles horns and Time are on the troll. Is it really obvious and are my visual sensibilities somewhat blunt today?

    Not obvious to me either.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,010
    How am I in the same party as IDS?
  • PAWPAW Posts: 1,074
    Hmm...

    "Boldly, JLR says the new TRANSCEND project, which is partly funded by the UK government, will help “rebuild the UK’s transmission production”. Jaguar Land Rover currently uses an eight-speed automatic gearbox supplied by German firm ZF; many of its manual gearboxes come from Germany’s Getrag."

    "ULTRAN has been a three-year research initiative led by Jaguar Land Rover in a consortium including Ricardo, Tata Steel, Lubrizol, GRM Consulting Ltd, American Axle & Manufacturing and the Universities of Southampton, Newcastle and Warwick – with the support of the UK’s innovation agency, InnovateUK."

    "GKN’s integrated electric drive system could transform the EV market. UK firm's integrated drive system produces up to 1475lb ft and will make production in 2019. The company that created the all-wheel drive systems of the BMW i8 and Porsche 918 has produced an innovative electric drive system that can produce up to 1475lb ft of torque."

    I get the feeling that things are looking up for reshoring.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Theuniondivvie said:

    Someone on Twitter just suggested that the M above the Don's napper resembles horns and Time are on the troll. Is it really obvious and are my visual sensibilities somewhat blunt today?

    Like the FedEx arrow, once you see it you can't unsee it.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 44,131
    Luckyguy1983 said:

    TOPPING said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    Interestingly Thornberry committed Labour to staying inside the customs union—which would mean that the UK could not do any comprehensive free-trade deals post Brexit. Indeed, if Britain stays inside the customs union, it really won’t be Brexit in the proper sense of the word.

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/12/pmqs-emily-thornberrys-battle-customs-union/

    No single market no customs union or a large number of Brexiters will feel it is not their kind of Brexit.

    (They will be the same people of course who constantly whined about how it was "up to the government" to determine Brexit.)

    It's fair game for the moderate bit of Labour to have a go at it.

    Which will totally prove our point then, won't it?
    That Brexiters' strategy here also is have cake and eat it? Yep
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,010
    edited December 2016
    AlastairMeeks said:

    Theuniondivvie said:

    Someone on Twitter just suggested that the M above the Don's napper resembles horns and Time are on the troll. Is it really obvious and are my visual sensibilities somewhat blunt today?

    Like the FedEx arrow, once you see it you can't unsee it.
    What's the FedEx arrow thing?

    Is it like Colonel Sanders' tie actually being little arms and legs?
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    Pulpstar said:

    Our being in the customs union is "bigger" to us than it is to Europe. Even if this isn't the case, you shouldn't explicitly state that you 'need' to be in it.

    I'm not sure it is bigger to us. I agree that nothing should be conceded in advance, which is why Theresa May is right to try to suppress MP interference in the negotiations. Her mistake is to be taking too long over it - I think that she has a tendency to act as though the position is static, whereas in politics, as in war, your adversaries are always shifting around and may regroup before you've executed your plan.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,488
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Theuniondivvie said:

    Someone on Twitter just suggested that the M above the Don's napper resembles horns and Time are on the troll. Is it really obvious and are my visual sensibilities somewhat blunt today?

    Not obvious to me either.
    Time to start a meme...
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,314
    Scott_P said:

    @paulwaugh: IDS in Brexit motion debate: "I'd rather stay in [the EU], than stay in the Customs Union..."

    The 70% solution really is remaining! :)
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    The FedEx arrow:

    http://www.more.com/entertainment/fun/its-arrow-famous-logos-hidden-images/fedex
  • nunununu Posts: 6,024
    They just give this title to anyone then.....

    http://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,760539,00.html
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 5,045
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    Theuniondivvie said:

    Someone on Twitter just suggested that the M above the Don's napper resembles horns and Time are on the troll. Is it really obvious and are my visual sensibilities somewhat blunt today?

    Like the FedEx arrow, once you see it you can't unsee it.
    What's the FedEx arrow thing?

    Is it like Colonel Sanders' tie actually being little arms and legs?
    Look at the white space between the last E and the X
    It makes a rightwards pointing arrow (and this is deliberate)

    image
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,872
    edited December 2016
    Question: If a Justice thinks Miller/Pannick is technically right in law, but the government with the backing of 17.4 million voters (Or NET 1-2 millionish if you prefer) is "naturally just" are they still obliged to rule in favour of Miller/Pannick ?
  • perdixperdix Posts: 1,806
    Scott_P said:

    @paulwaugh: IDS in Brexit motion debate: "I'd rather stay in [the EU], than stay in the Customs Union..."

    Because being in a Customs Union would prohibit us from entering into free trade deals with other countries. IDS said that the US Congress has already produced preliminary legislation to enable a UK-US trade agreement.

  • Innocent_AbroadInnocent_Abroad Posts: 3,294
    Pulpstar said:

    Question: If a Justice thinks Miller/Pannick is technically right in law, but the government with the backing of 17.4 million voters (Or NET 1-2 millionish if you prefer) is "naturally just" are they still obliged to rule in favour of Miller/Pannick ?

    Don't forget the 16 million traitors :o

    Something should be done about them, don't you think?

  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Pulpstar said:

    Question: If a Justice thinks Miller/Pannick is technically right in law, but the government with the backing of 17.4 million voters (Or NET 1-2 millionish if you prefer) is "naturally just" are they still obliged to rule in favour of Miller/Pannick ?

    The Supreme Court can develop the law. So it is open to it to establish a new legal principle if it thinks appropriate. In a case as controversial as this, it would want to have a clear rationale for doing so.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,374
    The Amazon smile from A->Z is also another can't under logo
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,872
    edited December 2016
    Innocent_Abroad said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Question: If a Justice thinks Miller/Pannick is technically right in law, but the government with the backing of 17.4 million voters (Or NET 1-2 millionish if you prefer) is "naturally just" are they still obliged to rule in favour of Miller/Pannick ?

    Don't forget the 16 million traitors :o

    Something should be done about them, don't you think?

    We're undeniably in a minority.

    On tinder dry technical legal grounds we should win the case - but "justice" is the governments' potential out I feel. I have no idea if law trumps justice or vice versa though.

    Edit: Alastair has answered my point eloquently below.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,010
    AlastairMeeks said:

    The FedEx arrow:

    http://www.more.com/entertainment/fun/its-arrow-famous-logos-hidden-images/fedex

    Andy_Cooke said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    Theuniondivvie said:

    Someone on Twitter just suggested that the M above the Don's napper resembles horns and Time are on the troll. Is it really obvious and are my visual sensibilities somewhat blunt today?

    Like the FedEx arrow, once you see it you can't unsee it.
    What's the FedEx arrow thing?

    Is it like Colonel Sanders' tie actually being little arms and legs?
    Look at the white space between the last E and the X
    It makes a rightwards pointing arrow (and this is deliberate)

    image
    Thanks
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,872
    AlastairMeeks said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Question: If a Justice thinks Miller/Pannick is technically right in law, but the government with the backing of 17.4 million voters (Or NET 1-2 millionish if you prefer) is "naturally just" are they still obliged to rule in favour of Miller/Pannick ?

    The Supreme Court can develop the law. So it is open to it to establish a new legal principle if it thinks appropriate. In a case as controversial as this, it would want to have a clear rationale for doing so.
    Thanks, I was wondering why you thought the odds should be 4-6 / 6-4, I think that explains it :)
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,830
    TGOHF said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    TGOHF said:

    re Labour's new customs union policy - does that mean they don't want new free trade deals with the rest of the world ?

    It means that they, probably rightly, consider that the minor disadvantage of not being able to negotiate our own trade deals is outweighed by the humongous advantage of not wrecking our car industry.
    Under what circumstances would the EU invoke tariffs on our car industry that wouldn't result in the mutual destruction of a multitude of their industries ?

    Be realistic..
    Umnmm: unfortunately, I don't think that's true. Because the auto industry has multi-country supply chains, cutting us 'out' would harm us far more than them. Simply, we don't have enough of an auto component industry in the UK.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,374
    image

    The Amazon logo.
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