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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Trump card. Shuffling the deck on Brexit

SystemSystem Posts: 12,114
edited November 2016 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Trump card. Shuffling the deck on Brexit

Picture: Raheem Kassam’s twitter feed.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • eekeek Posts: 27,939
    first
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,347
    edited November 2016
    Second like Clinton ...

    On bbc one now, panorama attempts to wrap it's head around trump victory.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,347
    edited November 2016
    Panorama allowing falsehoods to be presented unchallenged, such as us born citizens will be deported & the border will be totally closed.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,732
    fourth!
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    edited November 2016
    Fifth!

    I'm sure many Dems are still knocking back a fifth!
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,068
    FPT, to end gerrymandering, they also need to end the requirement for majority-minority Districts.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,347
    edited November 2016
    This panorama programme is bollocks. It is just rehashing the same old same old stereotyping. I am none the wiser about why.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,068
    I do love the photograph too. It's Trump giving the middle finger to his EU critics.
  • BromptonautBromptonaut Posts: 1,113
    Richard Tyndall and I had a little spat about this a while back. Looks like I'm going to be proven right.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-37949877
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,122
    Good piece Alastair, fair play for calling out the response from some parts of Europe for what it is. I suspect the elections of 2017 will be even more significant than what's just happened in the USA.
  • weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820
    The EU's response to Donald Trump's election is obvious:

    Further Integration.
  • weejonnie said:

    The EU's response to Donald Trump's election is obvious:

    Further Integration.

    Isn't that their answer to everything ?
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,463
    edited November 2016
    This program is looking even more ridiculous now:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b081v8yc

    ' On the 23 June, Britain voted to leave the European Union. Then, on the 4 July, Nigel Farage, the man who had made it all possible, resigned saying he wanted his life back. But what sort of life has he gone back to, and how does a man forever in the spotlight fill his days now he has nothing to do? '

    Hopefully we wont see a sequel.
  • weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820

    Panorama allowing falsehoods to be presented unchallenged, such as us born citizens will be deported & the border will be totally closed.

    TBH - are you surprised? The BBC is still in the Denial Stage.
  • Panorama allowing falsehoods to be presented unchallenged, such as us born citizens will be deported & the border will be totally closed.

    BBC World Service excelled themselves on this topic in the wee small hours:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p04fdt5n

    from 28:00 in.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    "axis of evil" ??

    LOL

    You need to look at the world a bit more if that's what you think
  • TCPoliticalBettingTCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    edited November 2016
    Re: Panorama. Has the presenter, Hilary Andersson, altered their image?
  • If TSE had chosen Farage for his hero worship he might have been in that photo instead of Raheem Kassam.

    Instead he chose George Osborne.

    What an opportunity missed.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    This is where I agree with Meeks:

    "This could give Britain the opportunity to forge a new bridge between Europe and the USA, this time through trading and political links to the USA and military and foreign policy closeness to the EU."

    It's a complete reversal of post-WW2 British policy but still workable and far better than the present situation.
  • TCPoliticalBettingTCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    edited November 2016

    This program is looking even more ridiculous now:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b081v8yc

    When do we get the p*ss take on the EU Remain campaign? There is plenty of material. Osborne and safe words, Cameron and his chumocracy (many now unemployed) and Drunker etc etc...
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,179
    Speedy said:

    This is where I agree with Meeks:

    "This could give Britain the opportunity to forge a new bridge between Europe and the USA, this time through trading and political links to the USA and military and foreign policy closeness to the EU."

    It's a complete reversal of post-WW2 British policy but still workable and far better than the present situation.

    How would it be a reversal? Isn't it basically the same back-seat driver act that we've been trying to pull off since the rise of the US?
  • TCPoliticalBettingTCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    edited November 2016

    Richard Tyndall and I had a little spat about this a while back. Looks like I'm going to be proven right.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-37949877

    Do they really factor out all the effects in the city areas of heat sink effects?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,518
    Good article.
  • weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820
    Sean_F said:

    FPT, to end gerrymandering, they also need to end the requirement for majority-minority Districts.

    TBH, I have no real objection to them in theory - as a possible safeguard and to ensure representation - although I suspect that the Democrat party currently benefits from them. It is just the contortions required to put them into practice. I am sure no one would be suggesting we move minorities physically onto 'reservations'.

    Maybe in the UK we should Gerrymander a few UKIP constituencies - I am sure that part of PB would be wholeheartedly in favour of that.
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383

    If TSE had chosen Farage for his hero worship he might have been in that photo instead of Raheem Kassam.

    Instead he chose George Osborne.

    What an opportunity missed.

    :smiley:
  • This program is looking even more ridiculous now:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b081v8yc

    When do we get the p*ss take on the EU Remain campaign? There is plenty of material. Osborne and safe words, Cameron and his chumocracy (many now unemployed) and Drunker etc etc...
    It would be difficult to satirise something so awful that its leading lights were George Osborne, Will Straw and Stuart Rose.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    Floater said:

    "axis of evil" ??

    LOL

    You need to look at the world a bit more if that's what you think

    It is amusing that the EU (Well Germany) thinks that Britain, America and Russia is the new Axis of Evil.

    I think the more appropriate name would be the Allies, if this goes on we have gone a complete circle only to return geopolitically to WW2, if such then we are on the winning side.
  • weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820

    weejonnie said:

    The EU's response to Donald Trump's election is obvious:

    Further Integration.

    Isn't that their answer to everything ?
    Yep - sorry if you missed the sarcasm.
  • Second like Clinton ...

    On bbc one now, panorama attempts to wrap it's head around trump victory.

    Have they forced Katy Kay to apologise for misleading USA citizens on Brexit remorse claims?
  • This program is looking even more ridiculous now:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b081v8yc

    When do we get the p*ss take on the EU Remain campaign? There is plenty of material. Osborne and safe words, Cameron and his chumocracy (many now unemployed) and Drunker etc etc...
    It would be difficult to satirise something so awful that its leading lights were George Osborne, Will Straw and Stuart Rose.
    But it has a lot of potential humour. Hey George, you now only have 2 PERCENT of the voters regarding you as a Leader, the other 98% do not!
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    Caption to the photo above -

    I'm going to take this and stick it up his tight limey ass
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100

    Speedy said:

    This is where I agree with Meeks:

    "This could give Britain the opportunity to forge a new bridge between Europe and the USA, this time through trading and political links to the USA and military and foreign policy closeness to the EU."

    It's a complete reversal of post-WW2 British policy but still workable and far better than the present situation.

    How would it be a reversal? Isn't it basically the same back-seat driver act that we've been trying to pull off since the rise of the US?
    Because now we have trading and political links to Europe and military and foreign policy closeness to the USA.

    So we simply switch.
  • TCPoliticalBettingTCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    edited November 2016

    If TSE had chosen Farage for his hero worship he might have been in that photo instead of Raheem Kassam.
    Instead he chose George Osborne.
    What an opportunity missed.

    He thought that knowing a safe word would open up the spad career path?
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Term limits for parliamentarians are a terrible idea. It puts the power in the hands of lobbyists who know how to draft laws. Ebentually candidates simply become the fresh face on entrenched backroom teams who actually know how to do stuff.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    Trump is hiring, they say.

    But Soros is also hiring: how do you fancy getting up to $350 a day to protest Trump?
    https://twitter.com/sialusa/status/798220808384434176
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    EU agree 16 point defence plan

    http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-eu-defence-idUKKBN1391HP?il=0

    "EU leaders must still sign off on the plan in December, while divisive aspects over money were left for officials to work out next year."
  • Alistair said:

    Term limits for parliamentarians are a terrible idea. It puts the power in the hands of lobbyists who know how to draft laws. Ebentually candidates simply become the fresh face on entrenched backroom teams who actually know how to do stuff.

    A starting age of 40 would however be a good idea.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,732
    Alistair said:

    Term limits for parliamentarians are a terrible idea. It puts the power in the hands of lobbyists who know how to draft laws. Ebentually candidates simply become the fresh face on entrenched backroom teams who actually know how to do stuff.

    They really should move away from two year terms though. I bet they spend 90% of their time fundraising for the next election.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    For all the talk about how unlikely it was that Trump won, there is more unlikely stuff happening:

    America's Team has won 8 straight for the first time since 1977 when Roger Staubach was throwing to rookie Tony Dorsett.

    Plus the Pats lost to Seattle last night.

    America's Team are 8-1, best record in the league.

    If I was a fan I'd be really pumped... Tony Who?
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    MikeK said:

    Trump is hiring, they say.

    But Soros is also hiring: how do you fancy getting up to $350 a day to protest Trump?
    https://twitter.com/sialusa/status/798220808384434176

    I almost forgot about Assange.

    What will happen to him now ?
    Will Trump give him a medal or something ?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,068
    Speedy said:

    Floater said:

    "axis of evil" ??

    LOL

    You need to look at the world a bit more if that's what you think

    It is amusing that the EU (Well Germany) thinks that Britain, America and Russia is the new Axis of Evil.

    I think the more appropriate name would be the Allies, if this goes on we have gone a complete circle only to return geopolitically to WW2, if such then we are on the winning side.
    The US and Russia are presumably Great Satans, whereas we'd be a less Great Satan, Moloch perhaps.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,690
    MikeK said:

    Trump is hiring, they say.

    But Soros is also hiring: how do you fancy getting up to $350 a day to protest Trump?
    https://twitter.com/sialusa/status/798220808384434176

    How do we know that has anything to do with Soros?
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    RobD said:

    Alistair said:

    Term limits for parliamentarians are a terrible idea. It puts the power in the hands of lobbyists who know how to draft laws. Ebentually candidates simply become the fresh face on entrenched backroom teams who actually know how to do stuff.

    They really should move away from two year terms though. I bet they spend 90% of their time fundraising for the next election.
    Only 90% would be good. I like the 2 years for Congress, 6 for Senate though - it keeps Congressmen more in touch with their district.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,518
    Alistair said:

    Term limits for parliamentarians are a terrible idea. It puts the power in the hands of lobbyists who know how to draft laws. Ebentually candidates simply become the fresh face on entrenched backroom teams who actually know how to do stuff.

    It will also increase the revolving door between the House and DC lobbyists.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    chestnut said:

    EU agree 16 point defence plan

    http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-eu-defence-idUKKBN1391HP?il=0

    "EU leaders must still sign off on the plan in December, while divisive aspects over money were left for officials to work out next year."

    Translation: "We have to sign up to a pointless gesture"
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,179
    Speedy said:

    I almost forgot about Assange.

    What will happen to him now ?
    Will Trump give him a medal or something ?

    There's an outside chance Obama will pardon Snowden which would be more significant than whatever happens to Assange.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,203
    rcs1000 said:

    MikeK said:

    Trump is hiring, they say.

    But Soros is also hiring: how do you fancy getting up to $350 a day to protest Trump?
    https://twitter.com/sialusa/status/798220808384434176

    How do we know that has anything to do with Soros?
    Calling bullshit... there's just no way you would need to pay anywhere near that much.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    edited November 2016
    rcs1000 said:

    MikeK said:

    Trump is hiring, they say.

    But Soros is also hiring: how do you fancy getting up to $350 a day to protest Trump?
    https://twitter.com/sialusa/status/798220808384434176

    How do we know that has anything to do with Soros?
    Even Politico.com are discussing it; and they are the left wings prop with CNN in the USA.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    MaxPB said:

    Alistair said:

    Term limits for parliamentarians are a terrible idea. It puts the power in the hands of lobbyists who know how to draft laws. Ebentually candidates simply become the fresh face on entrenched backroom teams who actually know how to do stuff.

    It will also increase the revolving door between the House and DC lobbyists.
    Trump wants to combine term limits with a 5 year ban on lobbying after leaving office.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669

    Speedy said:

    I almost forgot about Assange.

    What will happen to him now ?
    Will Trump give him a medal or something ?

    There's an outside chance Obama will pardon Snowden which would be more significant than whatever happens to Assange.
    He could merely roll Assange and Snowden into the pardon on Clinton and her associates in the campaign and at the foundation. There is a certain symmetry to it..
  • Speedy said:

    chestnut said:

    EU agree 16 point defence plan

    http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-eu-defence-idUKKBN1391HP?il=0

    "EU leaders must still sign off on the plan in December, while divisive aspects over money were left for officials to work out next year."

    Translation: "We have to sign up to a pointless gesture"
    I'm sure there will be plenty of well paid jobs involved as well.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,855
    weejonnie said:

    Panorama allowing falsehoods to be presented unchallenged, such as us born citizens will be deported & the border will be totally closed.

    TBH - are you surprised? The BBC is still in the Denial Stage.
    For journalists from the broadly left wing, liberal, metropolitan media the last 18 months has had three inexplicable events. A Conservative majority, Leave winning, and Trump winning. They have been blindsided by these events that "should not have happened". You do have to wonder how many more unlikely things will occur before they realise that maybe they haven't been doing a very good job of reporting.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    rcs1000 said:

    MikeK said:

    Trump is hiring, they say.

    But Soros is also hiring: how do you fancy getting up to $350 a day to protest Trump?
    https://twitter.com/sialusa/status/798220808384434176

    How do we know that has anything to do with Soros?
    Obvious false flag bird dogging of the highest order.
  • Hertsmere_PubgoerHertsmere_Pubgoer Posts: 3,476
    edited November 2016
    chestnut said:

    EU agree 16 point defence plan

    http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-eu-defence-idUKKBN1391HP?il=0

    "EU leaders must still sign off on the plan in December, while divisive aspects over money were left for officials to work out next year."

    From the article it won't be able to do anything apart from humanitarian assistance missions.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100

    Speedy said:

    chestnut said:

    EU agree 16 point defence plan

    http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-eu-defence-idUKKBN1391HP?il=0

    "EU leaders must still sign off on the plan in December, while divisive aspects over money were left for officials to work out next year."

    Translation: "We have to sign up to a pointless gesture"
    I'm sure there will be plenty of well paid jobs involved as well.
    They have no money.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    MikeK said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MikeK said:

    Trump is hiring, they say.

    But Soros is also hiring: how do you fancy getting up to $350 a day to protest Trump?
    https://twitter.com/sialusa/status/798220808384434176

    How do we know that has anything to do with Soros?
    Even Politico.com are discussing it; and they are the left wings prop with CNN in the USA.
    - and MsNBC
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,518
    Tim_B said:

    MaxPB said:

    Alistair said:

    Term limits for parliamentarians are a terrible idea. It puts the power in the hands of lobbyists who know how to draft laws. Ebentually candidates simply become the fresh face on entrenched backroom teams who actually know how to do stuff.

    It will also increase the revolving door between the House and DC lobbyists.
    Trump wants to combine term limits with a 5 year ban on lobbying after leaving office.
    Yeah, I still think its not a good idea. If anything increasing terms lengths to 4 years and alternating them every two years half and half it would bring more stability to the country. It would reduce the instability IMO.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    Speedy said:

    chestnut said:

    EU agree 16 point defence plan

    http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-eu-defence-idUKKBN1391HP?il=0

    "EU leaders must still sign off on the plan in December, while divisive aspects over money were left for officials to work out next year."

    Translation: "We have to sign up to a pointless gesture"
    - which will not cost anything.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,179
    Noam Chomsky puts in a bid for peak wail:

    "The Republican Party has become the most dangerous organization in world history. The party is dedicated to racing as rapidly as possible to destruction of organized human life."

    http://www.ecowatch.com/noam-chomsky-trump-2093271018.html
  • john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    @Speedy

    "EU leaders must still sign off on the plan in December, while divisive aspects over money were left for officials to work out next year.'

    'Translation: "We have to sign up to a pointless gesture"


    I wonder which part of 'we are leaving the EU' they don't understand ?
  • It's a sophisticated piece by the handsome and erudite Mr Meeks. The President Elect may not have known what he was doing with the Golden Lift photo but Farage certainly did. Farage, Banks and Kassam are trying to turn Brexit into Trexit. A wider and mutually nourishing transatlantic revolt going far beyond Britain's EU member and embracing many of the cultural themes of Trumpism. It will have quite a lot in common with Five Star in Italy.

    May herself seems to have spotted the risk of Brexit becoming Trexit and becoming Trexit derailing Brexit. Thus her odd Mansion House speech trying to triangulate Brexit between the EU and neoprotectionsm. How you be a " global leader in Free Trade " by leaving the world's biggest and deepest Free Trade area is another matter. But she knows a Trexit would exert gravitational pull on some Tory MP's who indulge anglospheric fantasies.

    So Alistair's sketch of a Grand Bargain where Brexit Britain works by keeping Europe in the Pax Americana and switching to the NAFTAsphere for economic purposes is a good one. However it will require an enormous number of ducks in a row at a time where Ducks seem usually rabid. The number of emotional variables now in play is now astonishing.

    If Pax Americana ends then we'll need a Pax Europa. Which in practical terms means a Pax Germanica. We aren't a million miles away from actually asking the Germans to rearm. They've the wealth, population and industrial mass to lead the EU's defence of it's eastern borders. But it would be a hell of a psychological and political switch ( as well as taking time ).

    As a Remoaner I like arsonist comparisons. The Transatlantic Union as was is now in flames. If we're to extinguish it and craft adapted structures in time we're relying on Trump, Putin and very angry northern European voters all doing exactly the right thing for at least the next 3 years. At the moment I wouldn't bet on it.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    I told you to prepare for a cold winter:
    https://twitter.com/DVATW/status/798258321635549184
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    rcs1000 said:

    MikeK said:

    Trump is hiring, they say.

    But Soros is also hiring: how do you fancy getting up to $350 a day to protest Trump?
    https://twitter.com/sialusa/status/798220808384434176

    How do we know that has anything to do with Soros?
    I can't believe we are mentioning Soros conspiracy theories on PB, says how things have changed:

    https://twitter.com/daveweigel/status/798196902693113856

    Anyway since the Democrats actually staged protests in the primaries against Trump in order to help him politically, I do believe those protests might be staged too, just not from Soros.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,769
    Tim_B said:

    For all the talk about how unlikely it was that Trump won, there is more unlikely stuff happening:

    America's Team has won 8 straight for the first time since 1977 when Roger Staubach was throwing to rookie Tony Dorsett.

    Plus the Pats lost to Seattle last night.

    America's Team are 8-1, best record in the league.

    If I was a fan I'd be really pumped... Tony Who?

    I'm with Dak
  • " He loftily pronounced that “We will need to teach the president-elect what Europe is and how it works” and predicted that two years would be wasted while Mr Trump “tours a world he doesn’t know”. Perhaps they catch flies with vinegar in Berlin and Luxembourg."

    Juncker. Grade A dickhead.
  • "The EU’s foreign ministers gathered to show unity, a gathering undermined by the absence of both Britain and France, the EU’s major military powers. "

    I can't imagine this is an accident.

    What price a form of rapprochement with France, our most truculent EU opponent, but also the one with whom we have closest military ties?

    Probably not. But still, we live in interesting times.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,872
    edited November 2016
    Very interesting article, Alastair.

    "This could give Britain the opportunity to forge a new bridge between Europe and the USA, this time through trading and political links to the USA and military and foreign policy closeness to the EU."

    This is my hope too, but we shall see what happens. It certainly won't be boring.

    Thanks for writing.
  • Richard Tyndall and I had a little spat about this a while back. Looks like I'm going to be proven right.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-37949877

    Do they really factor out all the effects in the city areas of heat sink effects?
    Yes, they do. They also factor out effects such as changes in the position and immediate surroundings of weather stations (becoming overgrown, etc.) and differences in the time of day at which temperatures were read. This process is called data homogenisation (not manipulation, as idiots like Telegraph hack Christopher Booker are wont to claim). Unsurprisingly, highly qualified and experienced scientists tend to know their field better than journalists and the general public.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669

    Noam Chomsky puts in a bid for peak wail:

    "The Republican Party has become the most dangerous organization in world history. The party is dedicated to racing as rapidly as possible to destruction of organized human life."

    http://www.ecowatch.com/noam-chomsky-trump-2093271018.html

    This seems extremely dubious at best. I have it on good authority from experiments in Churchill Manitoba that most polar bears both on and off the ice answer to the name of Donald.

    You can't compare ludicrous claims to proven science.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,690
    MikeK said:

    I told you to prepare for a cold winter:
    https://twitter.com/DVATW/status/798258321635549184

    I find the ocean temperature data hard to argue with. Why do you dismiss it?
  • MikeK said:

    Trump is hiring, they say.

    But Soros is also hiring: how do you fancy getting up to $350 a day to protest Trump?
    https://twitter.com/sialusa/status/798220808384434176

    Is that what 619 has had to resort to now he has been dumped from the official Clinton campaign?
  • "Is the British government adroit enough to change European perceptions of it post-Brexit in the changed circumstances?"

    Hmm.... very good question.
  • Pulpstar said:

    Tim_B said:

    For all the talk about how unlikely it was that Trump won, there is more unlikely stuff happening:

    America's Team has won 8 straight for the first time since 1977 when Roger Staubach was throwing to rookie Tony Dorsett.

    Plus the Pats lost to Seattle last night.

    America's Team are 8-1, best record in the league.

    If I was a fan I'd be really pumped... Tony Who?

    I'm with Dak
    Zek Elliott was fantastic last night.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    Pulpstar said:

    Tim_B said:

    For all the talk about how unlikely it was that Trump won, there is more unlikely stuff happening:

    America's Team has won 8 straight for the first time since 1977 when Roger Staubach was throwing to rookie Tony Dorsett.

    Plus the Pats lost to Seattle last night.

    America's Team are 8-1, best record in the league.

    If I was a fan I'd be really pumped... Tony Who?

    I'm with Dak
    Want a #4 jersey for Christmas?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,518

    "The EU’s foreign ministers gathered to show unity, a gathering undermined by the absence of both Britain and France, the EU’s major military powers. "

    I can't imagine this is an accident.

    What price a form of rapprochement with France, our most truculent EU opponent, but also the one with whom we have closest military ties?

    Probably not. But still, we live in interesting times.

    I think there's a good chance of that anyway, the other EU nations are not reliable allies.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,179

    If Pax Americana ends then we'll need a Pax Europa. Which in practical terms means a Pax Germanica. We aren't a million miles away from actually asking the Germans to rearm. They've the wealth, population and industrial mass to lead the EU's defence of it's eastern borders. But it would be a hell of a psychological and political switch ( as well as taking time ).

    I don't think this reflects the reality of the changes that are likely to occur. Remember that prior to the incursion into Ukraine, Western sympathy for Putin was primarily a German phenomenon, with the Putinversteher holding considerable sway. Also if Merkel is forced out, then recreating the geopolitical situation of a past age will seem even less attractive.

    Any thinking which fails to address the question of how Russia can be readmitted to the top tier of the civilized world on terms that they find compelling is missing the significance of the opportunity that now presents us.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053

    Noam Chomsky puts in a bid for peak wail:

    "The Republican Party has become the most dangerous organization in world history. The party is dedicated to racing as rapidly as possible to destruction of organized human life."

    http://www.ecowatch.com/noam-chomsky-trump-2093271018.html

    Chomsky is a sad person who hates his roots and has now come to hate anything that smacks of human initiative.
  • Sean_F said:

    I do love the photograph too. It's Trump giving the middle finger to his EU critics.

    Which I will put aside all my reservations about him to one side to enjoy.

    Delicious.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,203
    Enjoyed the article.

    Feels as though Trump's election may cause a rift between Boris and TM... the job of foreign secretary just became a lot more important- can TM really afford to give it out to a man she surely does not trust?

    Interested to hear what Mr. Meeks thinks Russia wants out of all of this? They're clearly delighted with Trump's election, but is that because they think he will give them a free hand in Eastern Europe?
  • MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642

    MikeK said:

    Trump is hiring, they say.

    But Soros is also hiring: how do you fancy getting up to $350 a day to protest Trump?
    https://twitter.com/sialusa/status/798220808384434176

    Is that what 619 has had to resort to now he has been dumped from the official Clinton campaign?
    Lol.

    @619 U OK hun?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,872
    edited November 2016

    Speedy said:

    This is where I agree with Meeks:

    "This could give Britain the opportunity to forge a new bridge between Europe and the USA, this time through trading and political links to the USA and military and foreign policy closeness to the EU."

    It's a complete reversal of post-WW2 British policy but still workable and far better than the present situation.

    How would it be a reversal? Isn't it basically the same back-seat driver act that we've been trying to pull off since the rise of the US?
    Occasionally, it works. Such as in the Gulf War I, Kosovo, or in Libya. Also it helped (eventually) in the Falklands.

    But, we shouldn't give ourselves that the US will always put our interests first out of sentiment.

    They won't.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,769

    Pulpstar said:

    Tim_B said:

    For all the talk about how unlikely it was that Trump won, there is more unlikely stuff happening:

    America's Team has won 8 straight for the first time since 1977 when Roger Staubach was throwing to rookie Tony Dorsett.

    Plus the Pats lost to Seattle last night.

    America's Team are 8-1, best record in the league.

    If I was a fan I'd be really pumped... Tony Who?

    I'm with Dak
    Zek Elliott was fantastic last night.
    Yep he got 38 points. If I somehow lose my fantasy league, I'm picking him first draft !

    Doubt I'll get him otherwise.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,732
    MP_SE said:

    MikeK said:

    Trump is hiring, they say.

    But Soros is also hiring: how do you fancy getting up to $350 a day to protest Trump?
    twitter.com/sialusa/status/798220808384434176

    Is that what 619 has had to resort to now he has been dumped from the official Clinton campaign?
    Lol.

    @619 U OK hun?
    He's only gone and done an IOS!
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    edited November 2016

    Pulpstar said:

    Tim_B said:

    For all the talk about how unlikely it was that Trump won, there is more unlikely stuff happening:

    America's Team has won 8 straight for the first time since 1977 when Roger Staubach was throwing to rookie Tony Dorsett.

    Plus the Pats lost to Seattle last night.

    America's Team are 8-1, best record in the league.

    If I was a fan I'd be really pumped... Tony Who?

    I'm with Dak
    Zek Elliott was fantastic last night.
    over 1000 yards for the season already - I was told by a fan.

    The fake spike by Big Ben was cheeky though! (I'm told)


  • If Pax Americana ends then we'll need a Pax Europa. Which in practical terms means a Pax Germanica. We aren't a million miles away from actually asking the Germans to rearm. They've the wealth, population and industrial mass to lead the EU's defence of it's eastern borders. But it would be a hell of a psychological and political switch ( as well as taking time ).

    Nah. We asked the Germans to rearm in 1949, and they did.

    West German forces formed the backbone of NATO forces on the Rhine for almost 40 years.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,122
    Tim_B said:

    For all the talk about how unlikely it was that Trump won, there is more unlikely stuff happening:

    America's Team has won 8 straight for the first time since 1977 when Roger Staubach was throwing to rookie Tony Dorsett.

    Plus the Pats lost to Seattle last night.

    America's Team are 8-1, best record in the league.

    If I was a fan I'd be really pumped... Tony Who?

    I thought PB was a safe space for people like me who have to go to bed after the first game on a Sunday night and catch the later games on a Monday....
  • BromptonautBromptonaut Posts: 1,113
    MikeK said:

    I told you to prepare for a cold winter:
    https://twitter.com/DVATW/status/798258321635549184

    One only has to read the comments to know this is coming straight from the right wing lunatic fringe.

    Meanwhile in the real world - you know, the homely little ball of rock we all live on, we're experiencing the highest temperatures in recorded history.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-37949877
  • Speedy said:

    Floater said:

    "axis of evil" ??

    LOL

    You need to look at the world a bit more if that's what you think

    It is amusing that the EU (Well Germany) thinks that Britain, America and Russia is the new Axis of Evil.

    I think the more appropriate name would be the Allies, if this goes on we have gone a complete circle only to return geopolitically to WW2, if such then we are on the winning side.
    Not that I want to get all Godwin's law, but it didn't end particularly well the last time Germany tried to go up against all three of those.

    FWIW, I think Merkel needs to retire and Germany needs new leadership.

    She's had her time.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,302

    If Pax Americana ends then we'll need a Pax Europa. Which in practical terms means a Pax Germanica. We aren't a million miles away from actually asking the Germans to rearm. They've the wealth, population and industrial mass to lead the EU's defence of it's eastern borders. But it would be a hell of a psychological and political switch ( as well as taking time ).

    I don't think this reflects the reality of the changes that are likely to occur. Remember that prior to the incursion into Ukraine, Western sympathy for Putin was primarily a German phenomenon, with the Putinversteher holding considerable sway. Also if Merkel is forced out, then recreating the geopolitical situation of a past age will seem even less attractive.

    Any thinking which fails to address the question of how Russia can be readmitted to the top tier of the civilized world on terms that they find compelling is missing the significance of the opportunity that now presents us.
    Let's face it , this year German Foreign policy has been a total fk up.

    It has destroyed the very things it sought to protect.

    A comprehensive failure
  • weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820

    " He loftily pronounced that “We will need to teach the president-elect what Europe is and how it works” and predicted that two years would be wasted while Mr Trump “tours a world he doesn’t know”. Perhaps they catch flies with vinegar in Berlin and Luxembourg."

    Juncker. Grade A dickhead.

    https://fortunedotcom.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/donald-trump1.png
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,751
    edited November 2016

    If TSE had chosen Farage for his hero worship he might have been in that photo instead of Raheem Kassam.

    Instead he chose George Osborne.

    What an opportunity missed.

    Really? What is it that you see TSE & Kaseem having in common that would make you want to compare them?
  • MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    RobD said:

    MP_SE said:

    MikeK said:

    Trump is hiring, they say.

    But Soros is also hiring: how do you fancy getting up to $350 a day to protest Trump?
    twitter.com/sialusa/status/798220808384434176

    Is that what 619 has had to resort to now he has been dumped from the official Clinton campaign?
    Lol.

    @619 U OK hun?
    He's only gone and done an IOS!
    Lol.

    A few Clinton bots seem to have scarpered.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,732

    MikeK said:

    I told you to prepare for a cold winter:
    https://twitter.com/DVATW/status/798258321635549184

    One only has to read the comments to know this is coming straight from the right wing lunatic fringe.

    Meanwhile in the real world - you know, the homely little ball of rock we all live on, we're experiencing the highest temperatures in recorded history.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-37949877
    I dare say it's been hotter ;)
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,188
    Keep America in, Russia out and Germany down - the supposed post war British diplomatic policy - doesn't look like it will survive into the new Brexit and Trump era
  • MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642

    MikeK said:

    I told you to prepare for a cold winter:
    https://twitter.com/DVATW/status/798258321635549184

    One only has to read the comments to know this is coming straight from the right wing lunatic fringe.

    Meanwhile in the real world - you know, the homely little ball of rock we all live on, we're experiencing the highest temperatures in recorded history.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-37949877
    I have been freezing lately. We could really do with some global warming. Plus the 10% of my portfolio in water companies should do well.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    rcs1000 said:

    MikeK said:

    I told you to prepare for a cold winter:
    https://twitter.com/DVATW/status/798258321635549184

    I find the ocean temperature data hard to argue with. Why do you dismiss it?
    Because I saw the chart on the ocean warming and saw the blip upwards for the decade 1940 -1950. I lived those years and they were among the coldest years of the 20th century, so I don't take much notice the current data from a dubious scientific premise.
  • MaxPB said:

    "The EU’s foreign ministers gathered to show unity, a gathering undermined by the absence of both Britain and France, the EU’s major military powers. "

    I can't imagine this is an accident.

    What price a form of rapprochement with France, our most truculent EU opponent, but also the one with whom we have closest military ties?

    Probably not. But still, we live in interesting times.

    I think there's a good chance of that anyway, the other EU nations are not reliable allies.
    We should aim to be able to operate conjoined as a mini-US military axis, IMHO.

    As long as we don't go all Suez Crisis about it. That should be quite a powerful force in North/Western Africa, for example, which will becoming increasingly important over the next 30-40 years.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    tlg86 said:

    Tim_B said:

    For all the talk about how unlikely it was that Trump won, there is more unlikely stuff happening:

    America's Team has won 8 straight for the first time since 1977 when Roger Staubach was throwing to rookie Tony Dorsett.

    Plus the Pats lost to Seattle last night.

    America's Team are 8-1, best record in the league.

    If I was a fan I'd be really pumped... Tony Who?

    I thought PB was a safe space for people like me who have to go to bed after the first game on a Sunday night and catch the later games on a Monday....
    There's Monday Night Football too so you'd never catch up :wink:
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100

    Speedy said:

    Floater said:

    "axis of evil" ??

    LOL

    You need to look at the world a bit more if that's what you think

    It is amusing that the EU (Well Germany) thinks that Britain, America and Russia is the new Axis of Evil.

    I think the more appropriate name would be the Allies, if this goes on we have gone a complete circle only to return geopolitically to WW2, if such then we are on the winning side.
    Not that I want to get all Godwin's law, but it didn't end particularly well the last time Germany tried to go up against all three of those.

    FWIW, I think Merkel needs to retire and Germany needs new leadership.

    She's had her time.
    It only illustrates how lucky Britain is.

    We where going into a nasty fight with the EU over the terms of exit completely isolated, now we can have the USA on our side and the EU is the one that's isolated.
This discussion has been closed.