Desperate Remainers may be gloating about a technical victory today but the Daily Mail front page will resonate with the majority of the public. The elite conspiring to frustrate the democratic will of the people will not end well. The people spoke decisively in the referendum and their will should be respected.
This post was brought to you by the Nigebot.
No, I'm just an ordinary bloke in Yorkshire who believes in democracy and resents the sneering elite that think they know best. Your arrogant post suggests you are one such.
Where exactly has democracy been violated (excluding the front pages of the Express, Mail, etc)?
Appalling, ochlocratic headlines by the Brexit press tonight. This is making Donald Trump look like Thomas Paine. I'm genuinely frightened about how the Leave hardcore will react when the Brexit settlement is announced. I can't imagine anything that won't have them foaming at the leash, and their media handlers will stoke things up for all it's worth. Worrying, worrying times.
It's not just the Dallas IRS office. FBI field offices in NYC, DC, Dallas and California are investigating the Foundation, fighting the increasing efforts of AG Loretta Lynch to shut the FBI investigation down completely.
They are looking at RICO for the Foundation.
FBI have overplayed their hand, it's seeping into public consciousness now that everything that they have been doing has been politicised. Their history coming back to haunt them as agitators for the right and the problem not the solution.
It's not 'seeping' anywhere. It is now well understood and documented that the FBI investigation ending in July was a sham, courtesy of AG Lynch being a road block, and Comey made the mistake of going along. Comey undertook to inform Congress if and when potential new evidence came to light, and that's what he did last week. No more and no less. Delaying until after the election - damned if he did and damned if he didn't.
The FBI has not overplayed its hand - merely Comey doing what he said he'd do.
"agitators for the right and the problem not the solution". Not worth commenting on. If you had followed closely what the Feds have spent the last year doing you would not make such a comment. You can make a good case that Lynch and Kadzik are agitators for the left if you wish.
Investigations are now proceeding on several fronts -
1) the emails. The team was not disbanded in July and has kept working. The two laptops scheduled to be destroyed after plea bargains have not been, and are being 'exploited', as it looks like the plea bargains may be invalid (lying to the FBI has that effect). Podesta, Mills, Abedin etc may face legal jeopardy eventually.
2) Wikileaks - the gift that keeps on giving. Not a single leak has ever been challenged for veracity. It's a veritable treasure trove.
3) the Foundation. This has been going on quietly and 5 FBI field offices are working on it. Wikileaks is providing much evidence here too. They are interviewing some folks for the second and third time as new evidence comes to light. It looks like they are going for RICO.
I believe Brexit needs to happen. It will be neither as bleak as PB remainers wish it to be, nor as chock full of milk and honey as PB leavers expect. If it doesn't happen, then I think the country will be fecked and we'll be even more divided a nation than we are now.
It is bloody dangerous if it doesn't happen.
Many Remainers will see that as entirely the fault of the Leavers, but Remainers are just as bad with the racist/stupid lines peddled onto Leavers too.
It's nasty and it's ugly. We are now well beyond rational debate on this. I don't want a political civil war to turn into something worse.
I will criticise either side that stokes it.
Wholeheartedly agree. My apologies, everybody, if my own comments have been too flippant.
Appalling, ochlocratic headlines by the Brexit press tonight. This is making Donald Trump look like Thomas Paine. I'm genuinely frightened about how the Leave hardcore will react when the Brexit settlement is announced. I can't imagine anything that won't have them foaming at the leash, and their media handlers will stoke things up for all it's worth. Worrying, worrying times.
I believe Brexit needs to happen. It will be neither as bleak as PB remainers wish it to be, nor as chock full of milk and honey as PB leavers expect. If it doesn't happen, then I think the country will be fecked and we'll be even more divided a nation than we are now.
It is bloody dangerous if it doesn't happen.
Many Remainers will see that as entirely the fault of the Leavers, but Remainers are just as bad with the racist/stupid lines peddled onto Leavers too.
It's nasty and it's ugly. We are now well beyond rational debate on this. I don't want a political civil war to turn into something worse.
I will criticise either side that stokes it.
Wholeheartedly agree. My apologies, everybody, if my own comments have been too flippant.
The problem with lawyers is they often can't see the wood for the trees. They get so bound up in the minutiae of particular clauses, and their cleverness with them, they miss out on basic justice.
Whether these judges are technically correct or not is irrelevant. The political optics are horrible, and it will stoke a lot of anger.
It. Is. The. Law. The law of a sovereign, democratic country. Thank God we have an independent judiciary.
As I have said before this is also the mistake people make when looking at the ECJ.
In the case of the High Court they have made a decision based on the law. Looking at their ruling I find it difficult to find any way they could have found differently. The problem is with the law they are interpreting. We may not like it but it was law made by politicians either in the UK or the EU. Either way the judges are duty bound to follow it.
The same applies with the ECJ. People think they are behaving as activist judges and their decisions are politically motivated. This is not the case. They are acting in accordance with the set of rules - in this case the treaties - that were decided by a higher authority and which they are duty bound to follow.
In both cases the problem lies with the law not the judges interpretation of it.
The High Court has made its judgement because politicians agreed a law which conferred rights and responsibilities upon UK citizens and it is up to Parliament to agree to remove those rights and responsibilities. The ECJ interprets rulings in favour of ever closer union and more power for the EU because that is what is set out in the treaties.
The answer in both cases is to change the law. And in both cases the same solution - leaving the EU - will suffice.
Whether these judges are technically correct or not is irrelevant. The political optics are horrible, and it will stoke a lot of anger.
I don't wish to be rude, but how can anyone be so mind-bogglingly, breathtakingly, stunningly and quadruple-whammingly ignorant about what judges are supposed to do?
Whether these judges are technically correct or not is irrelevant. The political optics are horrible, and it will stoke a lot of anger.
I don't wish to be rude, but how can anyone be so mind-bogglingly, breathtakingly, stunningly and quadruple-whammingly ignorant about what judges are supposed to do?
I don't think he said anything about what they should/should not do. Just that it looks bad.
Whether these judges are technically correct or not is irrelevant. The political optics are horrible, and it will stoke a lot of anger.
I don't wish to be rude, but how can anyone be so mind-bogglingly, breathtakingly, stunningly and quadruple-whammingly ignorant about what judges are supposed to do?
I don't think he said anything about what they should/should not do. Just that it looks bad.
He said it was irrelevant whether they were technically correct or not.
The whole of their job is to be technically correct about the law!
3) the Foundation. This has been going on quietly and 5 FBI field offices are working on it. Wikileaks is providing much evidence here too. They are interviewing some folks for the second and third time as new evidence comes to light. It looks like they are going for RICO.
It's almost starting to look like the election is a battle between the FBI and DOJ. If Trump wins heads will roll at the DOJ, and if Clinton wins the FBI will be the victim.
Whether these judges are technically correct or not is irrelevant. The political optics are horrible, and it will stoke a lot of anger.
I don't wish to be rude, but how can anyone be so mind-bogglingly, breathtakingly, stunningly and quadruple-whammingly ignorant about what judges are supposed to do?
I don't think he said anything about what they should/should not do. Just that it looks bad.
He said it was irrelevant whether they were technically correct or not.
The whole of their job is to be technically correct about the law!
Theresa May just needs to play this in a calm, measured, authoritative way.
She is going to be trusted far, far, far more than anyone else to get this done.
And by being calm, measured and authoritative she will build that trust - because she is the only option for anyone who wants the job to actually get done.
Whether these judges are technically correct or not is irrelevant. The political optics are horrible, and it will stoke a lot of anger.
I don't wish to be rude, but how can anyone be so mind-bogglingly, breathtakingly, stunningly and quadruple-whammingly ignorant about what judges are supposed to do?
Leave or stay. Our country has never been more divided.
I despair at our poisonous politics.
It was not like this even two years ago.
Thanks Mr Cameron. This is your legacy.
Actually it was the legacy of Blair and Brown who both decided that they could ignore and scorn the views of millions of the people they were supposed to be representing.
'Ken Clarke confirms on Newsnight he will vote against triggering Article 50, first Tory MP to do so'
If the democratic voice of the people is again blocked by the Supreme court then May will hopefully call a GE and the likes of Clarke & Sourpuss will get dumped as candidates.
Leave or stay. Our country has never been more divided.
I despair at our poisonous politics.
It was not like this even two years ago.
Thanks Mr Cameron. This is your legacy.
Actually it was the legacy of Blair and Brown who both decided that they could ignore and scorn the views of millions of the people they were supposed to be representing.
Appalling, ochlocratic headlines by the Brexit press tonight. This is making Donald Trump look like Thomas Paine. I'm genuinely frightened about how the Leave hardcore will react when the Brexit settlement is announced. I can't imagine anything that won't have them foaming at the leash, and their media handlers will stoke things up for all it's worth. Worrying, worrying times.
I have to agree - and I came within a hair of voting Leave.
There's a section of Brexiteers who start getting hysterical just when anyone asks the most reasonable of questions about what will happen in future. And, as said, the kind of rubbish on the Mail and Express front pages really is the type of thing that incites nutjobs like the Jo Cox murderer. I wouldn't be surprised if the lady who brought this court case will be needing police protection before long.
'Ken Clarke confirms on Newsnight he will vote against triggering Article 50, first Tory MP to do so'
If the democratic voice of the people is again blocked by the Supreme court then May will hopefully call a GE and the likes of Clarke & Sourpuss will get dumped as candidates.
That has a touch of Russell Crowe telling that BBC producer that he'll never work in Hollywood again. Clarke is retiring at the next election.
Leave or stay. Our country has never been more divided.
I despair at our poisonous politics.
It was not like this even two years ago.
Thanks Mr Cameron. This is your legacy.
Actually it was the legacy of Blair and Brown who both decided that they could ignore and scorn the views of millions of the people they were supposed to be representing.
No. Things were fine at the GE in 2010 and 2015.
Dave opened Pandoras box. This thing today is down to his poorly drafted bill. Noone else is to blame. Noone.
3) the Foundation. This has been going on quietly and 5 FBI field offices are working on it. Wikileaks is providing much evidence here too. They are interviewing some folks for the second and third time as new evidence comes to light. It looks like they are going for RICO.
It's almost starting to look like the election is a battle between the FBI and DOJ. If Trump wins heads will roll at the DOJ, and if Clinton wins the FBI will be the victim.
Comey's position at the FBI is a ten year term. None of these investigations will come to fruition until a while after the election.
It's not just the Dallas IRS office. FBI field offices in NYC, DC, Dallas and California are investigating the Foundation, fighting the increasing efforts of AG Loretta Lynch to shut the FBI investigation down completely.
They are looking at RICO for the Foundation.
FBI have overplayed their hand, it's seeping into public consciousness now that everything that they have been doing has been politicised. Their history coming back to haunt them as agitators for the right and the problem not the solution.
The FBI has not overplayed its hand - merely Comey doing what he said he'd do.
"agitators for the right and the problem not the solution". Not worth commenting on. If you had followed closely what the Feds have spent the last year doing you would not make such a comment. You can make a good case that Lynch and Kadzik are agitators for the left if you wish.
Investigations are now proceeding on several fronts -
1) the emails. The team was not disbanded in July and has kept working. The two laptops scheduled to be destroyed after plea bargains have not been, and are being 'exploited', as it looks like the plea bargains may be invalid (lying to the FBI has that effect). Podesta, Mills, Abedin etc may face legal jeopardy eventually.
2) Wikileaks - the gift that keeps on giving. Not a single leak has ever been challenged for veracity. It's a veritable treasure trove.
3) the Foundation. This has been going on quietly and 5 FBI field offices are working on it. Wikileaks is providing much evidence here too. They are interviewing some folks for the second and third time as new evidence comes to light. It looks like they are going for RICO.
The FBI are a politicised and corrupt force, made much worse by their having been led by (apart from the odd short termer covering) Republicans. If we found out that the Met had been run by the hard right in the UK all these years there would be investigations and they would be dismantled. Yet these people have got away with it?
Comey tried to be vaguely non partisan and it caused such uproar that he has lost control. You can also see Giuliani's scummy sickening fingerprints all over this. God knows how far they will go when they really come under scrutiny.
It stinks, but who will be brave enough to challenge the FBI? Maybe their hate figure is the only one who has nothing to lose, so they are doing everything to try and stop her.
Leave or stay. Our country has never been more divided.
I despair at our poisonous politics.
It was not like this even two years ago.
Thanks Mr Cameron. This is your legacy.
Actually it was the legacy of Blair and Brown who both decided that they could ignore and scorn the views of millions of the people they were supposed to be representing.
No. Things were fine at the GE in 2010 and 2015.
Dave opened Pandoras box. This thing today is down to his poorly drafted bill. Noone else is to blame. Noone.
Things were not fine at all. You are just one of those who had their fingers in their ears and hoped it would all go away.
'Ken Clarke confirms on Newsnight he will vote against triggering Article 50, first Tory MP to do so'
If the democratic voice of the people is again blocked by the Supreme court then May will hopefully call a GE and the likes of Clarke & Sourpuss will get dumped as candidates.
Yes I think it is. We have a whole pile of unresolved constitutional issues that can't be papered over any longer because of Brexit.
Our governing elites thinks, and has done since the 1960s, that we are not a viable independent state. A narrow majority of the electorate do not agree.
It's only going to get worse. Both sides are filled with righteous anger.
Leave or stay. Our country has never been more divided.
I despair at our poisonous politics.
It was not like this even two years ago.
Thanks Mr Cameron. This is your legacy.
Agreed, division is rife. A bit of calm behoves us all. On the specifics of today, if the next appeal fails, parliament will vote for an Act, it will almost certainly pass despite the Lammys and Clarkes. The Lords would be signing their political death warrant to oppose. Failing that May goes to the country in early spring on an "I'm with the people" slogan and probably wins well.
Cameron screwed up for sure. Essay crisis govt, no planning or consideration for losing. Idiotic.
However, Blair could've nipped all this in the bud by not weaseling out of his promised Constitution vote ( before it became Lisbon). However, he (like Cameron) utterly failed to appreciate how deep and broad the disquiet with the European Project was and stoked the simmering resentment by ducking a vote that could've made the EU think again.
He sowed the wind and Cameron reaped a whirlwind that shows little sign of blowing out.
Leave or stay. Our country has never been more divided.
I despair at our poisonous politics.
It was not like this even two years ago.
Thanks Mr Cameron. This is your legacy.
Actually it was the legacy of Blair and Brown who both decided that they could ignore and scorn the views of millions of the people they were supposed to be representing.
No. Things were fine at the GE in 2010 and 2015.
Dave opened Pandoras box. This thing today is down to his poorly drafted bill. Noone else is to blame. Noone.
It's politics.
No one's happy. No EURef pledge, no majority. His bastards plus the Kippers meant there was no alternative.
Things were not fine at all. You are just one of those who had their fingers in their ears and hoped it would all go away.
Same sort of thing with Trump, if Clinton wins it doesn't mean everything is fine. Trump is where he is because America has some serious political, social, and economic problems that have been ignored for too long.
'Ken Clarke confirms on Newsnight he will vote against triggering Article 50, first Tory MP to do so'
If the democratic voice of the people is again blocked by the Supreme court then May will hopefully call a GE and the likes of Clarke & Sourpuss will get dumped as candidates.
Ken Clarke is standing down
He is still an MP though and with the Tories only having a majority of 12 it only takes the likes of Clarke, Soubry and Morgan and a few other Tory MPs to vote down Article 50 and Labour and LD MPs to vote against it on the grounds of opposition to the Government's plan for the Brexit negotiations and triggering Article 50 could be voted down, more likely the Commons does eventually push it through but bogs the process down with amendments and then a further hold up in the Lords pushes the process well beyond May
The FBI are a politicised and corrupt force, made much worse by their having been led by (apart from the odd short termer covering) Republicans. If we found out that the Met had been run by the hard right in the UK all these years there would be investigations and they would be dismantled. Yet these people have got away with it?
Comey tried to be vaguely non partisan and it caused such uproar that he has lost control. You can also see Giuliani's scummy sickening fingerprints all over this. God knows how far they will go when they really come under scrutiny.
It stinks, but who will be brave enough to challenge the FBI? Maybe their hate figure is the only one who has nothing to lose, so they are doing everything to try and stop her.
Yeah, right, Hillary Clinton has nothing to lose - nothing except her Presidency, her Foundation and her liberty if the FBI's concerns are proved right....
The Democrats going after a head of the FBI appointed by Obama is one of the most bizarre aspects of this supremely bizarre election.
Leave or stay. Our country has never been more divided.
I despair at our poisonous politics.
It was not like this even two years ago.
Thanks Mr Cameron. This is your legacy.
Actually it was the legacy of Blair and Brown who both decided that they could ignore and scorn the views of millions of the people they were supposed to be representing.
No. Things were fine at the GE in 2010 and 2015.
Dave opened Pandoras box. This thing today is down to his poorly drafted bill. Noone else is to blame. Noone.
Things were not fine at all. You are just one of those who had their fingers in their ears and hoped it would all go away.
Really? I remember both elections being generally good humoured. The coalition was a pretty stable and relaxed time. Nothing like this.
Was it necessary to put "foreign" in their headline.
It looks like the gloves are off
Indeed. North Walian bastard.
That is wholly unnecessary
Joke. Bad one but a joke.
Thanks for that. I do believe the debate is getting overheated and hopefully Theresa May will bring some calm into the debate over the coming weeks. This is her time and will be a very big challenge
Leave or stay. Our country has never been more divided.
I despair at our poisonous politics.
It was not like this even two years ago.
Thanks Mr Cameron. This is your legacy.
Actually it was the legacy of Blair and Brown who both decided that they could ignore and scorn the views of millions of the people they were supposed to be representing.
No. Things were fine at the GE in 2010 and 2015.
Dave opened Pandoras box. This thing today is down to his poorly drafted bill. Noone else is to blame. Noone.
Things were not fine at all. You are just one of those who had their fingers in their ears and hoped it would all go away.
Really? I remember both elections being generally good humoured. The coalition was a pretty stable and relaxed time. Nothing like this.
In which case you really don't have a very good memory.
Leave or stay. Our country has never been more divided.
I despair at our poisonous politics.
It was not like this even two years ago.
Thanks Mr Cameron. This is your legacy.
Actually it was the legacy of Blair and Brown who both decided that they could ignore and scorn the views of millions of the people they were supposed to be representing.
No. Things were fine at the GE in 2010 and 2015.
Dave opened Pandoras box. This thing today is down to his poorly drafted bill. Noone else is to blame. Noone.
No. Things were not fine. Millions of us were very concerned as our rights being sliced away salami style to "Europe". Political leaders were going "la la la" for years. The longer this debate was put off the worse it was going to get when it came to a head. I really really wanted Cameron to get a proper new deal, his utter failure, his trying to con us it was great, and the total tin ear from the Continent persuaded me I'd been kidding myself and swung me decisively.
The FBI are a politicised and corrupt force, made much worse by their having been led by (apart from the odd short termer covering) Republicans. If we found out that the Met had been run by the hard right in the UK all these years there would be investigations and they would be dismantled. Yet these people have got away with it?
Comey tried to be vaguely non partisan and it caused such uproar that he has lost control. You can also see Giuliani's scummy sickening fingerprints all over this. God knows how far they will go when they really come under scrutiny.
It stinks, but who will be brave enough to challenge the FBI? Maybe their hate figure is the only one who has nothing to lose, so they are doing everything to try and stop her.
Yeah, right, Hillary Clinton has nothing to lose - nothing except her Presidency, her Foundation and her liberty if the FBI's concerns are proved right....
The Democrats going after a head of the FBI appointed by Obama is one of the most bizarre aspects of this supremely bizarre election.
He could have, for the first time, appointed a non Republican but mistakenly thought his non partisan appointment would build bridges. Even Obama himself has now spoken out against him and, to be fair, Comey had tried to be non partisan. With a politicised force standing over him, however, even that was too far.
Leave or stay. Our country has never been more divided.
I despair at our poisonous politics.
It was not like this even two years ago.
Thanks Mr Cameron. This is your legacy.
Actually it was the legacy of Blair and Brown who both decided that they could ignore and scorn the views of millions of the people they were supposed to be representing.
No. Things were fine at the GE in 2010 and 2015.
Dave opened Pandoras box. This thing today is down to his poorly drafted bill. Noone else is to blame. Noone.
No. Things were not fine. Millions of us were very concerned as our rights being sliced away salami style to "Europe". Political leaders were going "la la la" for years. The longer this debate was put off the worse it was going to get when it came to a head. I really really wanted Cameron to get a proper new deal, his utter failure, his trying to con us it was great, and the total tin ear from the Continent persuaded me I'd been kidding myself and swung me decisively.
There are certainly many like you for whom Europe has been a burning issue, however you are in the minority. What explains Brexit, like what explains Trump, is delayed anger about the fallout from the 2008 financial crisis and bailouts of the financial system. This is above all a crisis of big government capitalism.
Edit: Of course I'm ignoring the other big issue: immigration.
Leave or stay. Our country has never been more divided.
I despair at our poisonous politics.
It was not like this even two years ago.
Thanks Mr Cameron. This is your legacy.
Actually it was the legacy of Blair and Brown who both decided that they could ignore and scorn the views of millions of the people they were supposed to be representing.
No. Things were fine at the GE in 2010 and 2015.
Dave opened Pandoras box. This thing today is down to his poorly drafted bill. Noone else is to blame. Noone.
Things were not fine at all. You are just one of those who had their fingers in their ears and hoped it would all go away.
Really? I remember both elections being generally good humoured. The coalition was a pretty stable and relaxed time. Nothing like this.
In which case you really don't have a very good memory.
Really? You think it was like this? Really.
The most tricky time in the Coalition was the 2011 riot. But in the summer of 2012 the nation was United. In elections the worse I think of is the Mrs Duffy incident.
No accusations of traitors flying around the mainstream press. No MPs getting shot.
Whether these judges are technically correct or not is irrelevant. The political optics are horrible, and it will stoke a lot of anger.
I don't wish to be rude, but how can anyone be so mind-bogglingly, breathtakingly, stunningly and quadruple-whammingly ignorant about what judges are supposed to do?
I don't think he said anything about what they should/should not do. Just that it looks bad.
He said it was irrelevant whether they were technically correct or not.
The whole of their job is to be technically correct about the law!
It's irrelevant in terms of how it looks
What you say simply makes no sense. Obviously what the judges have to do is simply to interpret the law.
What does it even mean to say that interpreting the law is "irrelevant in terms of how it looks"? That a lot of people are too stupid to understand what judges do, and that they will therefore totally misinterpret the judgment?
The truth of the matter is precisely the converse of what you say. "How it looks" is the thing that is absolutely irrelevant.
Frankly foreign or offshore ownership of British media should be as criminal as foreign or offshore votes in a British General Election. The disgusting crap peddled by the right today is tantamount to inciting civil war. The five offshore billionaires are a cancer on our politics.
Haha.. Now on Question Time an American panellist is getting shouted down for defending Trump.
It was a pretty feeble defence!
There were one or 2 Trump defenders in the audience, one comparing it to Brexit and one made the valid point it is rather hypocritical of Michelle Obama to be campaigning for Hillary having 8 years ago said she was not fit to be president!
Leave or stay. Our country has never been more divided.
I despair at our poisonous politics.
It was not like this even two years ago.
Thanks Mr Cameron. This is your legacy.
Actually it was the legacy of Blair and Brown who both decided that they could ignore and scorn the views of millions of the people they were supposed to be representing.
No. Things were fine at the GE in 2010 and 2015.
Dave opened Pandoras box. This thing today is down to his poorly drafted bill. Noone else is to blame. Noone.
No. Things were not fine. Millions of us were very concerned as our rights being sliced away salami style to "Europe". Political leaders were going "la la la" for years. The longer this debate was put off the worse it was going to get when it came to a head. I really really wanted Cameron to get a proper new deal, his utter failure, his trying to con us it was great, and the total tin ear from the Continent persuaded me I'd been kidding myself and swung me decisively.
There are certainly many like you for whom Europe has been a burning issue, however you are in the minority. What explains Brexit, like what explains Trump, is delayed anger about the fallout from the 2008 financial crisis and bailouts of the financial system. This is above all a crisis of big government capitalism.
Yes, that's in the mix for sure. But Blair was still a prat for dodging that vote. The symbolism of Brown sneaking in at midnight to sign Lisbon was so telling. He must've known to his fingertips it was unsellable to the British electorate, but still he ploughed on. Fool. June 23rd was revenge for that, but I accept your point wholly that economics since 2008 has had a big effect too, probably the decisive effect.
Second by election of the night seeing UKIP making more progress than Labour, the LDs and the Tories, LDs see the biggest fall, seems this court judgement could be a godsend for the Kippers and a disaster for the yellows!
Frankly foreign or offshore ownership of British media should be as criminal as foreign or offshore votes in a British General Election. The disgusting crap peddled by the right today is tantamount to inciting civil war. The five offshore billionaires are a cancer on our politics.
It is a unified campaign against the Judges and plays into the narrative of the elite v the little people
I am surprised at just how angry most of the press are and do have worries for the two claimants bringing the case
Leave or stay. Our country has never been more divided.
I despair at our poisonous politics.
It was not like this even two years ago.
Thanks Mr Cameron. This is your legacy.
Actually it was the legacy of Blair and Brown who both decided that they could ignore and scorn the views of millions of the people they were supposed to be representing.
No. Things were fine at the GE in 2010 and 2015.
Dave opened Pandoras box. This thing today is down to his poorly drafted bill. Noone else is to blame. Noone.
No. Things were not fine. Millions of us were very concerned as our rights being sliced away salami style to "Europe". Political leaders were going "la la la" for years. The longer this debate was put off the worse it was going to get when it came to a head. I really really wanted Cameron to get a proper new deal, his utter failure, his trying to con us it was great, and the total tin ear from the Continent persuaded me I'd been kidding myself and swung me decisively.
There are certainly many like you for whom Europe has been a burning issue, however you are in the minority. What explains Brexit, like what explains Trump, is delayed anger about the fallout from the 2008 financial crisis and bailouts of the financial system. This is above all a crisis of big government capitalism.
Don't forget immigration,when the Blair government signed up to open our borders early to the new EU Eastern European members and then the Bastards(yes rage) lied to say only 13 thousand people would come started the real path for brexit in my opinion.
Second by election of the night seeing UKIP making more progress than Labour, the LDs and the Tories, LDs see the biggest fall, seems this court judgement could be a godsend for the Kippers and a disaster for the yellows!
Second by election of the night seeing UKIP making more progress than Labour, the LDs and the Tories, LDs see the biggest fall, seems this court judgement could be a godsend for the Kippers and a disaster for the yellows!
Leave or stay. Our country has never been more divided.
I despair at our poisonous politics.
It was not like this even two years ago.
Thanks Mr Cameron. This is your legacy.
Actually it was the legacy of Blair and Brown who both decided that they could ignore and scorn the views of millions of the people they were supposed to be representing.
No. Things were fine at the GE in 2010 and 2015.
Dave opened Pandoras box. This thing today is down to his poorly drafted bill. Noone else is to blame. Noone.
No. Things were not fine. Millions of us were very concerned as our rights being sliced away salami style to "Europe". Political leaders were going "la la la" for years. The longer this debate was put off the worse it was going to get when it came to a head. I really really wanted Cameron to get a proper new deal, his utter failure, his trying to con us it was great, and the total tin ear from the Continent persuaded me I'd been kidding myself and swung me decisively.
There are certainly many like you for whom Europe has been a burning issue, however you are in the minority. What explains Brexit, like what explains Trump, is delayed anger about the fallout from the 2008 financial crisis and bailouts of the financial system. This is above all a crisis of big government capitalism.
Don't forget immigration,when the Blair government signed up to open our borders early to the new EU Eastern European members and then the Bastards(yes rage) lied to say only 13 thousand people would come started the real path for brexit in my opinion.
You lose the trust of the people.
Yes you're absolutely right. I edited my post afterwards to say I'd left that out. I think Blair's decision not to apply the transition period for the new Eastern European members was the biggest single mistake contributing to Brexit.
Leave or stay. Our country has never been more divided.
I despair at our poisonous politics.
It was not like this even two years ago.
Thanks Mr Cameron. This is your legacy.
Actually it was the legacy of Blair and Brown who both decided that they could ignore and scorn the views of millions of the people they were supposed to be representing.
No. Things were fine at the GE in 2010 and 2015.
Dave opened Pandoras box. This thing today is down to his poorly drafted bill. Noone else is to blame. Noone.
No. Things were not fine. Millions of us were very concerned as our rights being sliced away salami style to "Europe". Political leaders were going "la la la" for years. The longer this debate was put off the worse it was going to get when it came to a head. I really really wanted Cameron to get a proper new deal, his utter failure, his trying to con us it was great, and the total tin ear from the Continent persuaded me I'd been kidding myself and swung me decisively.
There are certainly many like you for whom Europe has been a burning issue, however you are in the minority. What explains Brexit, like what explains Trump, is delayed anger about the fallout from the 2008 financial crisis and bailouts of the financial system. This is above all a crisis of big government capitalism.
Don't forget immigration,when the Blair government signed up to open our borders early to the new EU Eastern European members and then the Bastards(yes rage) lied to say only 13 thousand people would come started the real path for brexit in my opinion.
Leave or stay. Our country has never been more divided.
I despair at our poisonous politics.
It was not like this even two years ago.
Thanks Mr Cameron. This is your legacy.
Actually it was the legacy of Blair and Brown who both decided that they could ignore and scorn the views of millions of the people they were supposed to be representing.
No. Things were fine at the GE in 2010 and 2015.
Dave opened Pandoras box. This thing today is down to his poorly drafted bill. Noone else is to blame. Noone.
No. Things were not fine. Millions of us were very concerned as our rights being sliced away salami style to "Europe". Political leaders were going "la la la" for years. The longer this debate was put off the worse it was going to get when it came to a head. I really really wanted Cameron to get a proper new deal, his utter failure, his trying to con us it was great, and the total tin ear from the Continent persuaded me I'd been kidding myself and swung me decisively.
There are certainly many like you for whom Europe has been a burning issue, however you are in the minority. What explains Brexit, like what explains Trump, is delayed anger about the fallout from the 2008 financial crisis and bailouts of the financial system. This is above all a crisis of big government capitalism.
Don't forget immigration,when the Blair government signed up to open our borders early to the new EU Eastern European members and then the Bastards(yes rage) lied to say only 13 thousand people would come started the real path for brexit in my opinion.
You lose the trust of the people.
Yes you're absolutely right. I edited my post afterwards to say I'd left that out. I think Blair's decision not to apply the transition period for the new Eastern European members was the biggest single mistake contributing to Brexit.
Leave or stay. Our country has never been more divided.
I despair at our poisonous politics.
It was not like this even two years ago.
Thanks Mr Cameron. This is your legacy.
Actually it was the legacy of Blair and Brown who both decided that they could ignore and scorn the views of millions of the people they were supposed to be representing.
No. Things were fine at the GE in 2010 and 2015.
Dave opened Pandoras box. This thing today is down to his poorly drafted bill. Noone else is to blame. Noone.
Things were not fine at all. You are just one of those who had their fingers in their ears and hoped it would all go away.
Really? I remember both elections being generally good humoured. The coalition was a pretty stable and relaxed time. Nothing like this.
In which case you really don't have a very good memory.
Really? You think it was like this? Really.
The most tricky time in the Coalition was the 2011 riot. But in the summer of 2012 the nation was United. In elections the worse I think of is the Mrs Duffy incident.
No accusations of traitors flying around the mainstream press. No MPs getting shot.
'Never' is a long time. We were probably more divided in 1642, for example. But yes, the country is not in a terribly happy place for which there are many reasons, some domestic, some international. Expectations form a large part of it.
Second by election of the night seeing UKIP making more progress than Labour, the LDs and the Tories, LDs see the biggest fall, seems this court judgement could be a godsend for the Kippers and a disaster for the yellows!
Jeez. If Labour can't win in Grangetown! Give up.
I suspect there might be hint of Asian politics here- the Plaid, Labour, and LD candidates were all of Asian origin. The winner was a 'community banker'.
Leave or stay. Our country has never been more divided.
I despair at our poisonous politics.
It was not like this even two years ago.
Thanks Mr Cameron. This is your legacy.
Actually it was the legacy of Blair and Brown who both decided that they could ignore and scorn the views of millions of the people they were supposed to be representing.
No. Things were fine at the GE in 2010 and 2015.
Dave opened Pandoras box. This thing today is down to his poorly drafted bill. Noone else is to blame. Noone.
Things were not fine at all. You are just one of those who had their fingers in their ears and hoped it would all go away.
Really? I remember both elections being generally good humoured. The coalition was a pretty stable and relaxed time. Nothing like this.
In which case you really don't have a very good memory.
Really? You think it was like this? Really.
The most tricky time in the Coalition was the 2011 riot. But in the summer of 2012 the nation was United. In elections the worse I think of is the Mrs Duffy incident.
No accusations of traitors flying around the mainstream press. No MPs getting shot.
Yes. Even though it had not yet materialised into a political force the anger was there and was relentlessly growing. Such anger does not just spontaneously appear overnight. It is built up over the years. Indeed the Duffy case you refer to and the reaction of the elite to it shows how close it was to the surface even back in 2010. The whole disillusionment with politics, the drops in turnout and the general anger felt by vast numbers of people towards the political elite all began long before Cameron came along. He just happened to be the one holding the parcel when it exploded.
Second by election of the night seeing UKIP making more progress than Labour, the LDs and the Tories, LDs see the biggest fall, seems this court judgement could be a godsend for the Kippers and a disaster for the yellows!
Jeez. If Labour can't win in Grangetown! Give up.
I suspect there might be hint of Asian politics here- the Plaid, Labour, and LD candidates were all of Asian origin. The winner was a 'community banker'.
Not impossible I guess. Should be slam dunk Labour territory though, local factors aside.
UKIP already up 6.4%, more than the Tories and LDs and Labour down
Doesn't really count if they didn't stand last time, surely? (And others who didn't stand before did better, so not all that much to write home about)
Nonetheless not a bad start from no base at all, though in Rainham seems the Tories were the biggest gainers. Fair Oak, Longlevens and Kingswood and Burnley Central East will be interesting as UKIP did stand there last time
Leave or stay. Our country has never been more divided.
I despair at our poisonous politics.
It was not like this even two years ago.
Thanks Mr Cameron. This is your legacy.
Actually it was the legacy of Blair and Brown who both decided that they could ignore and scorn the views of millions of the people they were supposed to be representing.
No. Things were fine at the GE in 2010 and 2015.
Dave opened Pandoras box. This thing today is down to his poorly drafted bill. Noone else is to blame. Noone.
Things were not fine at all. You are just one of those who had their fingers in their ears and hoped it would all go away.
Really? I remember both elections being generally good humoured. The coalition was a pretty stable and relaxed time. Nothing like this.
In which case you really don't have a very good memory.
Really? You think it was like this? Really.
The most tricky time in the Coalition was the 2011 riot. But in the summer of 2012 the nation was United. In elections the worse I think of is the Mrs Duffy incident.
No accusations of traitors flying around the mainstream press. No MPs getting shot.
Yes. Even though it had not yet materialised into a political force the anger was there and was relentlessly growing. Such anger does not just spontaneously appear overnight. It is built up over the years. Indeed the Duffy case you refer to and the reaction of the elite to it shows how close it was to the surface even back in 2010. The whole disillusionment with politics, the drops in turnout and the general anger felt by vast numbers of people towards the political elite all began long before Cameron came along. He just happened to be the one holding the parcel when it exploded.
UKIP already up 6.4%, more than the Tories and LDs and Labour down
Doesn't really count if they didn't stand last time, surely? (And others who didn't stand before did better, so not all that much to write home about)
Nonetheless not a bad start from no base at all, though in Rainham seems the Tories were the biggest gainers. Fair Oak, Longlevens and Kingswood and Burnley Central East will be interesting as UKIP did stand there last time
So far UKIP vote down in Rainham and in Burnley where Lib Dems overtook them into 2nd
Comments
http://dangerousminds.net/comments/drawing_dicks_on_donald_art_exhibit_elevates_us_politics_to_a_juvenile_leve
The FBI has not overplayed its hand - merely Comey doing what he said he'd do.
"agitators for the right and the problem not the solution". Not worth commenting on. If you had followed closely what the Feds have spent the last year doing you would not make such a comment. You can make a good case that Lynch and Kadzik are agitators for the left if you wish.
Investigations are now proceeding on several fronts -
1) the emails. The team was not disbanded in July and has kept working. The two laptops scheduled to be destroyed after plea bargains have not been, and are being 'exploited', as it looks like the plea bargains may be invalid (lying to the FBI has that effect). Podesta, Mills, Abedin etc may face legal jeopardy eventually.
2) Wikileaks - the gift that keeps on giving. Not a single leak has ever been challenged for veracity. It's a veritable treasure trove.
3) the Foundation. This has been going on quietly and 5 FBI field offices are working on it. Wikileaks is providing much evidence here too. They are interviewing some folks for the second and third time as new evidence comes to light. It looks like they are going for RICO.
https://twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/794257710665629704
In the case of the High Court they have made a decision based on the law. Looking at their ruling I find it difficult to find any way they could have found differently. The problem is with the law they are interpreting. We may not like it but it was law made by politicians either in the UK or the EU. Either way the judges are duty bound to follow it.
The same applies with the ECJ. People think they are behaving as activist judges and their decisions are politically motivated. This is not the case. They are acting in accordance with the set of rules - in this case the treaties - that were decided by a higher authority and which they are duty bound to follow.
In both cases the problem lies with the law not the judges interpretation of it.
The High Court has made its judgement because politicians agreed a law which conferred rights and responsibilities upon UK citizens and it is up to Parliament to agree to remove those rights and responsibilities. The ECJ interprets rulings in favour of ever closer union and more power for the EU because that is what is set out in the treaties.
The answer in both cases is to change the law. And in both cases the same solution - leaving the EU - will suffice.
I despair at our poisonous politics.
It was not like this even two years ago.
Thanks Mr Cameron. This is your legacy.
The whole of their job is to be technically correct about the law!
She is going to be trusted far, far, far more than anyone else to get this done.
And by being calm, measured and authoritative she will build that trust - because she is the only option for anyone who wants the job to actually get done.
Whatever.
'Ken Clarke confirms on Newsnight he will vote against triggering Article 50, first Tory MP to do so'
If the democratic voice of the people is again blocked by the Supreme court then May will hopefully call a GE and the likes of Clarke & Sourpuss will get dumped as candidates.
At least Suez was over much faster than Brexit.
There's a section of Brexiteers who start getting hysterical just when anyone asks the most reasonable of questions about what will happen in future. And, as said, the kind of rubbish on the Mail and Express front pages really is the type of thing that incites nutjobs like the Jo Cox murderer. I wouldn't be surprised if the lady who brought this court case will be needing police protection before long.
Dave opened Pandoras box. This thing today is down to his poorly drafted bill. Noone else is to blame. Noone.
Comey tried to be vaguely non partisan and it caused such uproar that he has lost control. You can also see Giuliani's scummy sickening fingerprints all over this. God knows how far they will go when they really come under scrutiny.
It stinks, but who will be brave enough to challenge the FBI? Maybe their hate figure is the only one who has nothing to lose, so they are doing everything to try and stop her.
It's only going to get worse. Both sides are filled with righteous anger.
Cameron screwed up for sure. Essay crisis govt, no planning or consideration for losing. Idiotic.
However, Blair could've nipped all this in the bud by not weaseling out of his promised Constitution vote ( before it became Lisbon). However, he (like Cameron) utterly failed to appreciate how deep and broad the disquiet with the European Project was and stoked the simmering resentment by ducking a vote that could've made the EU think again.
He sowed the wind and Cameron reaped a whirlwind that shows little sign of blowing out.
No one's happy. No EURef pledge, no majority. His bastards plus the Kippers meant there was no alternative.
It's all down to us, the electorate.
And on that bombshell...nite all.
'Clarke is retiring at the next election.'
That's a relief,at least 20 years overdue.
The Democrats going after a head of the FBI appointed by Obama is one of the most bizarre aspects of this supremely bizarre election.
The Clintons have skirted legality all the way back to the WH travel office when Bill was POTUS.
https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/794319107663532032
Edit: Of course I'm ignoring the other big issue: immigration.
The most tricky time in the Coalition was the 2011 riot. But in the summer of 2012 the nation was United. In elections the worse I think of is the Mrs Duffy incident.
No accusations of traitors flying around the mainstream press. No MPs getting shot.
What does it even mean to say that interpreting the law is "irrelevant in terms of how it looks"? That a lot of people are too stupid to understand what judges do, and that they will therefore totally misinterpret the judgment?
The truth of the matter is precisely the converse of what you say. "How it looks" is the thing that is absolutely irrelevant.
I am surprised at just how angry most of the press are and do have worries for the two claimants bringing the case
You lose the trust of the people.
Trump literally gave his supporters the private phone number of a political opponent so they harassed him. Now they lecture about bullying.