politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The by-election thread with Witney the main focus
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If Clinton wins there is every possibility of investigations around some of Trump's team's associations. Legal investigations. You don't want to be near it.TheScreamingEagles said:
Stepping back to focus on Watergate x1000?Scott_P said:0 -
why is some foreign criminal coming over her being paid by my tax money?AndyJS said:
Conrad Black wouldn't have got any applause in London I'm guessing.Jobabob said:
It's a very Brexit town - the audience are coming across as somewhat obsessive.MarqueeMark said:Remaoners getting a kicking on QT from Hartlepool.
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They haven't yet quite completed a cycle of upswing yet though. They'll make big gains in next year's Scottish council elections, with equivalent losses for Labour. Even if they're down on 12-24 months ago, they're still up on where they were 5 years ago.SeanT said:
Nah, it's shite - because the SNP is now in parliamentary decline. They've peaked. Sturreon is not quite as good as Salmond, and her successor will be less good still.Paristonda said:One point on a second scottish vote. The supposed risk with a second vote is that if it is lost, then the issue is resolved forever/generations. We don't actually have anything to support that other than a 'not-particularly-comparable' quebec vote. there's no actual empirical evidence that you get 2 strikes and o when it comes to independence referendums, it's just one of those things 'they' say.
Realistically, say there is a 2nd vote, and the SNP lose by a slightly smaller margin than last time. For the next couple of years, yes people will say that the issue has been sealed recently, but it will only take another trigger event of any kind for the SNP to use it to go for a 3rd vote, while arguing that demographics have shifted significantly since then.
The Nats are unlikely to get another majority for many years, after this Holyrood parliament. This IS their last chance. To that extent I agree with Meeks.0 -
He's British.619 said:
why is some foreign criminal coming over her being paid by my tax money?AndyJS said:
Conrad Black wouldn't have got any applause in London I'm guessing.Jobabob said:
It's a very Brexit town - the audience are coming across as somewhat obsessive.MarqueeMark said:Remaoners getting a kicking on QT from Hartlepool.
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Agree Corbyn is useless. Indeed, beyond useless. But has he destroyed the party? The jury is still out.Jobabob said:
Nothing. Same as everyone else. Corbyn is useless and has destroyed the party, as I say every damned day.MarqueeMark said:
It's also a Labour town. What does Labour offer them?Jobabob said:
It's a very Brexit town - the audience are coming across as somewhat obsessive.MarqueeMark said:Remaoners getting a kicking on QT from Hartlepool.
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Wow.619 said:
why is some foreign criminal coming over her being paid by my tax money?AndyJS said:
Conrad Black wouldn't have got any applause in London I'm guessing.Jobabob said:
It's a very Brexit town - the audience are coming across as somewhat obsessive.MarqueeMark said:Remaoners getting a kicking on QT from Hartlepool.
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Some people on Twitter saying turnout in Witney could be as low as 25%. Sounds like total bollocks to me. It'll be at least 40% in such a middle-class area IMO.0
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Angela Rayner seems to be entirely monotone!0
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Yes, that would be great, except as we have recently discovered referendums are a bloody awful way to decide highly complex questions.houndtang said:All this arguing about Brexit is so distressing. If only there was a democratic way to settle this... some kind of mass public vote maybe?
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Red BNP politics are pretty grim. QT not otetty
For now. It is still rebuildable, perhaps.rottenborough said:
Agree Corbyn is useless. Indeed, beyond useless. But has he destroyed the party? The jury is still out.Jobabob said:
Nothing. Same as everyone else. Corbyn is useless and has destroyed the party, as I say every damned day.MarqueeMark said:
It's also a Labour town. What does Labour offer them?Jobabob said:
It's a very Brexit town - the audience are coming across as somewhat obsessive.MarqueeMark said:Remaoners getting a kicking on QT from Hartlepool.
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I'm going to end up with £9.12 of profit from this by-election ^_^;;0
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Sgt. Sunil: All right, sweethearts, you're a team and there's nothin' to worry about. We come here, and we're gonna conquer, and we're gonna kick some, is that understood? That's what we gonna do, sweethearts, we are going to go and get some. All right, people, on the ready line! Are ya lean?
PB Tories: Yeah!
Sgt. Sunil: Are ya mean?
PB Tories: Yeah!
Sgt. Sunil: WHAT ARE YOU?
PB Tories: LEAN AND MEAN!
Sgt. Sunil: WHAT ARE YOU? RobD! TSE! Get on the ready line, PB Tories, get some today! Get on the ready line! Move it out! Move it out, goddammit! Get hot! One, two, three, four! Get out, get out, get out! Move it out, move it out, move it out! Move it out, move it out, move it out! One, two, three, four, five, six, seven! Aaarrrrr, absolutely badasses! Let's pack 'em in! Get in there!
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Trump national political director 'steps back' from campaign
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/10/trump-national-political-director-steps-back-from-campaign-230120
Like rats from a...0 -
Why is it that we always care about by-elections far more than the residents of the seat ever do
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If the SNP HAVE peaked - who benefits? Ruth Davidson is doing well for the Scottish Tories, but surely the number of SNP-Tory voters is negligible. Labour - and Scottish Labour - are hardly looking like winning back the lost voters of the Central Belt and East Coast right now. The Lib Dems? Apart from their strongholds around the edges of Scotland, the Lib Dems were only ever a minority interest in Scotland and they don't look like turning this around right now. Someone else? This is why I think the SNP can coast along quite happily for a bit yet - there's nowhere else for their voters to go.david_herdson said:
They haven't yet quite completed a cycle of upswing yet though. They'll make big gains in next year's Scottish council elections, with equivalent losses for Labour. Even if they're down on 12-24 months ago, they're still up on where they were 5 years ago.SeanT said:
Nah, it's shite - because the SNP is now in parliamentary decline. They've peaked. Sturreon is not quite as good as Salmond, and her successor will be less good still.Paristonda said:One point on a second scottish vote. The supposed risk with a second vote is that if it is lost, then the issue is resolved forever/generations. We don't actually have anything to support that other than a 'not-particularly-comparable' quebec vote. there's no actual empirical evidence that you get 2 strikes and o when it comes to independence referendums, it's just one of those things 'they' say.
Realistically, say there is a 2nd vote, and the SNP lose by a slightly smaller margin than last time. For the next couple of years, yes people will say that the issue has been sealed recently, but it will only take another trigger event of any kind for the SNP to use it to go for a 3rd vote, while arguing that demographics have shifted significantly since then.
The Nats are unlikely to get another majority for many years, after this Holyrood parliament. This IS their last chance. To that extent I agree with Meeks.0 -
Something to do with the money we have staked on them?Pulpstar said:Why is it that we always care about by-elections far more than the residents of the seat ever do
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too slow0
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Solid turnout for a by-election that'll change nothing.0
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Because we're temporary LIb Dems?Pulpstar said:Why is it that we always care about by-elections far more than the residents of the seat ever do
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Because we're weird.Pulpstar said:Why is it that we always care about by-elections far more than the residents of the seat ever do
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So not 17% then. Pretty normal, in fact for a seat like this, I'd have thought.
https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/7892366324068515840 -
Yeh, only urban seats where no one gives a f*** because they are under so much other pressure does turn out at a by-election hit 25%AndyJS said:Some people on Twitter saying turnout in Witney could be as low as 25%. Sounds like total bollocks to me. It'll be at least 40% in such a middle-class area IMO.
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What a hate-filled audience.Mortimer said:
It was the same in Hendon.Jobabob said:
It's a very Brexit town - the audience are coming across as somewhat obsessive.MarqueeMark said:Remaoners getting a kicking on QT from Hartlepool.
This is the new common ground of British politics.
Consequently, Labour are toast.
They shouted down anyone we dared to even suggest we need to actually figure out what happens next.
And they booed the poor Polish woman who had been living there for a 20 years.
Disgraceful showing. If that's mainstream, we're heading straight for dictatorship.
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I suspect the earlier report was a second hand polling station report from a presiding officer before close of poll and left out postal voters and the normal 9.30pm rushdavid_herdson said:So not 17% then. Pretty normal, in fact for a seat like this, I'd have thought.
https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/7892366324068515840 -
Is that the word you use when people who don't agree with you democratically decide something?Gardenwalker said:
What a hate-filled audience.Mortimer said:
It was the same in Hendon.Jobabob said:
It's a very Brexit town - the audience are coming across as somewhat obsessive.MarqueeMark said:Remaoners getting a kicking on QT from Hartlepool.
This is the new common ground of British politics.
Consequently, Labour are toast.
They shouted down anyone we dared to even suggest we need to actually figure out what happens next.
And they booed the poor Polish woman who had been living there for a 20 years.
Disgraceful showing. If that's mainstream, we're heading straight for dictatorship.0 -
Turnout 47%rottenborough said:
Yeh, only urban seats where no one gives a f*** because they are under so much other pressure does turn out at a by-election hit 25%AndyJS said:Some people on Twitter saying turnout in Witney could be as low as 25%. Sounds like total bollocks to me. It'll be at least 40% in such a middle-class area IMO.
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Hmm. Wasn't he Canadian? Then got British citizenship in order to get a peerage?TheScreamingEagles said:
He's British.619 said:
why is some foreign criminal coming over her being paid by my tax money?AndyJS said:
Conrad Black wouldn't have got any applause in London I'm guessing.Jobabob said:
It's a very Brexit town - the audience are coming across as somewhat obsessive.MarqueeMark said:Remaoners getting a kicking on QT from Hartlepool.
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I am surprised we don't yet have the Batley turnout yet, particularly as it is reported to be low.0
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I just call it as it is. Perhaps we were watching different shows.Mortimer said:
Is that the word you use when people who don't agree with you democratically decide something?Gardenwalker said:
What a hate-filled audience.Mortimer said:
It was the same in Hendon.Jobabob said:
It's a very Brexit town - the audience are coming across as somewhat obsessive.MarqueeMark said:Remaoners getting a kicking on QT from Hartlepool.
This is the new common ground of British politics.
Consequently, Labour are toast.
They shouted down anyone we dared to even suggest we need to actually figure out what happens next.
And they booed the poor Polish woman who had been living there for a 20 years.
Disgraceful showing. If that's mainstream, we're heading straight for dictatorship.0 -
It was a Hard Brexit for a Hard People.Mortimer said:
Is that the word you use when people who don't agree with you democratically decide something?Gardenwalker said:
What a hate-filled audience.Mortimer said:
It was the same in Hendon.Jobabob said:
It's a very Brexit town - the audience are coming across as somewhat obsessive.MarqueeMark said:Remaoners getting a kicking on QT from Hartlepool.
This is the new common ground of British politics.
Consequently, Labour are toast.
They shouted down anyone we dared to even suggest we need to actually figure out what happens next.
And they booed the poor Polish woman who had been living there for a 20 years.
Disgraceful showing. If that's mainstream, we're heading straight for dictatorship.
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Win some, lose some...
Britain Elects @britainelects 1m1 minute ago
Liberal Democrat GAIN St Mary's (East Riding of Yorkshire) from Conservative).
Britain Elects @britainelects 1m1 minute ago
Conservative GAIN Strood South (Medway) from UKIP.0 -
To be fair the grauniad reporter was quoting Lib Dem sources saying one ward as low as 17%. It's not impossible there's a large turnout differential.david_herdson said:So not 17% then. Pretty normal, in fact for a seat like this, I'd have thought.
Though probably not, as I said take with a heap of salt.0 -
Good luck to Hartlepool when the post-Brexit economic crisis, run on the pound, payments crisis, public debt spiral nightmare hits.Gardenwalker said:
What a hate-filled audience.Mortimer said:
It was the same in Hendon.Jobabob said:
It's a very Brexit town - the audience are coming across as somewhat obsessive.MarqueeMark said:Remaoners getting a kicking on QT from Hartlepool.
This is the new common ground of British politics.
Consequently, Labour are toast.
They shouted down anyone we dared to even suggest we need to actually figure out what happens next.
And they booed the poor Polish woman who had been living there for a 20 years.
Disgraceful showing. If that's mainstream, we're heading straight for dictatorship.
They'll need it...0 -
Honest question Mr Walker - are you an urbanite or a rural dweller?Gardenwalker said:
I just call it as it is. Perhaps we were watching different shows.Mortimer said:
Is that the word you use when people who don't agree with you democratically decide something?Gardenwalker said:
What a hate-filled audience.Mortimer said:
It was the same in Hendon.Jobabob said:
It's a very Brexit town - the audience are coming across as somewhat obsessive.MarqueeMark said:Remaoners getting a kicking on QT from Hartlepool.
This is the new common ground of British politics.
Consequently, Labour are toast.
They shouted down anyone we dared to even suggest we need to actually figure out what happens next.
And they booed the poor Polish woman who had been living there for a 20 years.
Disgraceful showing. If that's mainstream, we're heading straight for dictatorship.
I think this is going to be one of the biggest cleavages in the next century of our politics....0 -
Suzanne Evans 'taking soundings' about standing for leader.0
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Whether the audience was representative or not, it wasn't a good advertisement for Hartlepool.rottenborough said:
Good luck to Hartlepool when the post-Brexit economic crisis, run on the pound, payments crisis, public debt spiral nightmare hits.Gardenwalker said:
What a hate-filled audience.Mortimer said:
It was the same in Hendon.Jobabob said:
It's a very Brexit town - the audience are coming across as somewhat obsessive.MarqueeMark said:Remaoners getting a kicking on QT from Hartlepool.
This is the new common ground of British politics.
Consequently, Labour are toast.
They shouted down anyone we dared to even suggest we need to actually figure out what happens next.
And they booed the poor Polish woman who had been living there for a 20 years.
Disgraceful showing. If that's mainstream, we're heading straight for dictatorship.
They'll need it...0 -
I don't think Hartlepool particularly rural.Mortimer said:
Honest question Mr Walker - are you an urbanite or a rural dweller?Gardenwalker said:
I just call it as it is. Perhaps we were watching different shows.Mortimer said:
Is that the word you use when people who don't agree with you democratically decide something?Gardenwalker said:
What a hate-filled audience.Mortimer said:
It was the same in Hendon.Jobabob said:
It's a very Brexit town - the audience are coming across as somewhat obsessive.MarqueeMark said:Remaoners getting a kicking on QT from Hartlepool.
This is the new common ground of British politics.
Consequently, Labour are toast.
They shouted down anyone we dared to even suggest we need to actually figure out what happens next.
And they booed the poor Polish woman who had been living there for a 20 years.
Disgraceful showing. If that's mainstream, we're heading straight for dictatorship.
I think this is going to be one of the biggest cleavages in the next century of our politics....
Just a different sort of urban.
I went there in the eighties once. Not a lot to draw me back.0 -
Strikes me that the louder Leavers shout down everyone else who dares even mention what do we do next, the more they betray their deep underlying fear that they have made a monumental mistake.Mortimer said:
Honest question Mr Walker - are you an urbanite or a rural dweller?Gardenwalker said:
I just call it as it is. Perhaps we were watching different shows.Mortimer said:
Is that the word you use when people who don't agree with you democratically decide something?Gardenwalker said:
What a hate-filled audience.Mortimer said:
It was the same in Hendon.Jobabob said:
It's a very Brexit town - the audience are coming across as somewhat obsessive.MarqueeMark said:Remaoners getting a kicking on QT from Hartlepool.
This is the new common ground of British politics.
Consequently, Labour are toast.
They shouted down anyone we dared to even suggest we need to actually figure out what happens next.
And they booed the poor Polish woman who had been living there for a 20 years.
Disgraceful showing. If that's mainstream, we're heading straight for dictatorship.
I think this is going to be one of the biggest cleavages in the next century of our politics....
They can stick their fingers in their ears and shout 'democracy' and 'we voted out' as long as they like, but it still doesn't explain what we will do about being in or out of the customs union.0 -
Where was their monkey when he was needed?IanB2 said:
Whether the audience was representative or not, it wasn't a good advertisement for Hartlepool.rottenborough said:
Good luck to Hartlepool when the post-Brexit economic crisis, run on the pound, payments crisis, public debt spiral nightmare hits.Gardenwalker said:
What a hate-filled audience.Mortimer said:
It was the same in Hendon.Jobabob said:
It's a very Brexit town - the audience are coming across as somewhat obsessive.MarqueeMark said:Remaoners getting a kicking on QT from Hartlepool.
This is the new common ground of British politics.
Consequently, Labour are toast.
They shouted down anyone we dared to even suggest we need to actually figure out what happens next.
And they booed the poor Polish woman who had been living there for a 20 years.
Disgraceful showing. If that's mainstream, we're heading straight for dictatorship.
They'll need it...0 -
Bet the 17% was an 'on the day' count and they forgot the postal votes, which probably add 15-20% in most wards.brokenwheel said:
To be fair the grauniad reporter was quoting Lib Dem sources saying one ward as low as 17%. It's not impossible there's a large turnout differential.david_herdson said:So not 17% then. Pretty normal, in fact for a seat like this, I'd have thought.
Though probably not, as I said take with a heap of salt.0 -
St Albans Clarence ward LD Hold
LD 916
Con 388
Lab 193
Green 98
UKIP 16
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That was a Lib Dem gain from 4th place - the candidate was Dennis Healy ( no relation)Tissue_Price said:Win some, lose some...
Britain Elects @britainelects 1m1 minute ago
Liberal Democrat GAIN St Mary's (East Riding of Yorkshire) from Conservative).
Britain Elects @britainelects 1m1 minute ago
Conservative GAIN Strood South (Medway) from UKIP.
The Strood seat was formerly held for UKIP by Mrs Mark Reckless.0 -
Hartlepool hung Peter Mandelson and elected a French monkey.0
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LOL. Is she asking whether anyone will punch her if she stands?williamglenn said:Suzanne Evans 'taking soundings' about standing for leader.
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Yeah, it is the Leavers who seem most nervous of what happens next.rottenborough said:
Strikes me that the louder Leavers shout down everyone else who dares even mention what do we do next, the more they betray their deep underlying fear that they have made a monumental mistake.Mortimer said:
Honest question Mr Walker - are you an urbanite or a rural dweller?Gardenwalker said:
I just call it as it is. Perhaps we were watching different shows.Mortimer said:
Is that the word you use when people who don't agree with you democratically decide something?Gardenwalker said:
What a hate-filled audience.Mortimer said:
It was the same in Hendon.Jobabob said:
It's a very Brexit town - the audience are coming across as somewhat obsessive.MarqueeMark said:Remaoners getting a kicking on QT from Hartlepool.
This is the new common ground of British politics.
Consequently, Labour are toast.
They shouted down anyone we dared to even suggest we need to actually figure out what happens next.
And they booed the poor Polish woman who had been living there for a 20 years.
Disgraceful showing. If that's mainstream, we're heading straight for dictatorship.
I think this is going to be one of the biggest cleavages in the next century of our politics....
They can stick their fingers in their ears and shout 'democracy' and 'we voted out' as long as they like, but it still doesn't explain what we will do about being in or out of the customs union.
It is going to be Hard Brexit, and they are going to have to own it.0 -
Lib Dems coming from 4th to win a seat from the Conservatives, you say........?slade said:Liberal Democrat GAIN St Mary's (East Riding of Yorkshire) from Conservative).
That was a Lib Dem gain from 4th place0 -
TBF she comes across well and seems relatively sane for a UKIProttenborough said:
LOL. Is she asking whether anyone will punch her if she stands?williamglenn said:Suzanne Evans 'taking soundings' about standing for leader.
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I'm a filthy Islingtonite.Mortimer said:
Honest question Mr Walker - are you an urbanite or a rural dweller?Gardenwalker said:
I just call it as it is. Perhaps we were watching different shows.Mortimer said:
Is that the word you use when people who don't agree with you democratically decide something?Gardenwalker said:
What a hate-filled audience.Mortimer said:
It was the same in Hendon.Jobabob said:
It's a very Brexit town - the audience are coming across as somewhat obsessive.MarqueeMark said:Remaoners getting a kicking on QT from Hartlepool.
This is the new common ground of British politics.
Consequently, Labour are toast.
They shouted down anyone we dared to even suggest we need to actually figure out what happens next.
And they booed the poor Polish woman who had been living there for a 20 years.
Disgraceful showing. If that's mainstream, we're heading straight for dictatorship.
I think this is going to be one of the biggest cleavages in the next century of our politics....
But I was born and grew up in a working class suburb of Auckland, NZ. My people are car mechanics, book-keepers, machinists.
I get it. I get the power of "take back control" and the feeling of not being heard. But I think I also recognise hate and intolerace.
I'm beginning to think Mr Meeks is right: whatever the rights and wrongs of Brexit, this campaign was won by appealing to people's basest instincts.
And now we reap what was sown. Hard Brexit - because it does not require discussion, understanding, tolerance - naturally follows.
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I suspect the thinking leaver (e.g. Boris and co) is absolutely sh***** themselves about the contortions they are going to have to pull off.foxinsoxuk said:
Yeah, it is the Leavers who seem most nervous of what happens next.rottenborough said:
Strikes me that the louder Leavers shout down everyone else who dares even mention what do we do next, the more they betray their deep underlying fear that they have made a monumental mistake.Mortimer said:
Honest question Mr Walker - are you an urbanite or a rural dweller?Gardenwalker said:
I just call it as it is. Perhaps we were watching different shows.Mortimer said:
Is that the word you use when people who don't agree with you democratically decide something?Gardenwalker said:
What a hate-filled audience.Mortimer said:
It was the same in Hendon.Jobabob said:
It's a very Brexit town - the audience are coming across as somewhat obsessive.MarqueeMark said:Remaoners getting a kicking on QT from Hartlepool.
This is the new common ground of British politics.
Consequently, Labour are toast.
They shouted down anyone we dared to even suggest we need to actually figure out what happens next.
And they booed the poor Polish woman who had been living there for a 20 years.
Disgraceful showing. If that's mainstream, we're heading straight for dictatorship.
I think this is going to be one of the biggest cleavages in the next century of our politics....
They can stick their fingers in their ears and shout 'democracy' and 'we voted out' as long as they like, but it still doesn't explain what we will do about being in or out of the customs union.
It is going to be Hard Brexit, and they are going to have to own it.
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Yes it does, we will be out of it. Out of the single market too and it will be about trying to negotiate the best possible bilateral trade deal between the UK and EU.rottenborough said:
Strikes me that the louder Leavers shout down everyone else who dares even mention what do we do next, the more they betray their deep underlying fear that they have made a monumental mistake.Mortimer said:
Honest question Mr Walker - are you an urbanite or a rural dweller?Gardenwalker said:
I just call it as it is. Perhaps we were watching different shows.Mortimer said:
Is that the word you use when people who don't agree with you democratically decide something?Gardenwalker said:
What a hate-filled audience.Mortimer said:
It was the same in Hendon.Jobabob said:
It's a very Brexit town - the audience are coming across as somewhat obsessive.MarqueeMark said:Remaoners getting a kicking on QT from Hartlepool.
This is the new common ground of British politics.
Consequently, Labour are toast.
They shouted down anyone we dared to even suggest we need to actually figure out what happens next.
And they booed the poor Polish woman who had been living there for a 20 years.
Disgraceful showing. If that's mainstream, we're heading straight for dictatorship.
I think this is going to be one of the biggest cleavages in the next century of our politics....
They can stick their fingers in their ears and shout 'democracy' and 'we voted out' as long as they like, but it still doesn't explain what we will do about being in or out of the customs union.0 -
Genuinely surprised by 47% turnout. Thought it would be over 50%.
Congrats to Mark Senior who said it would be 48%.0 -
She will hate being leader of that rowdy lot thenIanB2 said:
TBF she comes across well and seems relatively sane for a UKIProttenborough said:
LOL. Is she asking whether anyone will punch her if she stands?williamglenn said:Suzanne Evans 'taking soundings' about standing for leader.
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Then we face economic ruin.Philip_Thompson said:
Yes it does, we will be out of it. Out of the single market too and it will be about trying to negotiate the best possible bilateral trade deal between the UK and EU.rottenborough said:
Strikes me that the louder Leavers shout down everyone else who dares even mention what do we do next, the more they betray their deep underlying fear that they have made a monumental mistake.Mortimer said:
Honest question Mr Walker - are you an urbanite or a rural dweller?Gardenwalker said:
I just call it as it is. Perhaps we were watching different shows.Mortimer said:
Is that the word you use when people who don't agree with you democratically decide something?Gardenwalker said:
What a hate-filled audience.Mortimer said:
It was the same in Hendon.Jobabob said:
It's a very Brexit town - the audience are coming across as somewhat obsessive.MarqueeMark said:Remaoners getting a kicking on QT from Hartlepool.
This is the new common ground of British politics.
Consequently, Labour are toast.
They shouted down anyone we dared to even suggest we need to actually figure out what happens next.
And they booed the poor Polish woman who had been living there for a 20 years.
Disgraceful showing. If that's mainstream, we're heading straight for dictatorship.
I think this is going to be one of the biggest cleavages in the next century of our politics....
They can stick their fingers in their ears and shout 'democracy' and 'we voted out' as long as they like, but it still doesn't explain what we will do about being in or out of the customs union.0 -
We've already got the best possible trade deal with the EU. Why not save the trouble and stick with it?Philip_Thompson said:
Yes it does, we will be out of it. Out of the single market too and it will be about trying to negotiate the best possible bilateral trade deal between the UK and EU.rottenborough said:
Strikes me that the louder Leavers shout down everyone else who dares even mention what do we do next, the more they betray their deep underlying fear that they have made a monumental mistake.Mortimer said:
Honest question Mr Walker - are you an urbanite or a rural dweller?Gardenwalker said:
I just call it as it is. Perhaps we were watching different shows.Mortimer said:
Is that the word you use when people who don't agree with you democratically decide something?Gardenwalker said:
What a hate-filled audience.Mortimer said:
It was the same in Hendon.Jobabob said:
It's a very Brexit town - the audience are coming across as somewhat obsessive.MarqueeMark said:Remaoners getting a kicking on QT from Hartlepool.
This is the new common ground of British politics.
Consequently, Labour are toast.
They shouted down anyone we dared to even suggest we need to actually figure out what happens next.
And they booed the poor Polish woman who had been living there for a 20 years.
Disgraceful showing. If that's mainstream, we're heading straight for dictatorship.
I think this is going to be one of the biggest cleavages in the next century of our politics....
They can stick their fingers in their ears and shout 'democracy' and 'we voted out' as long as they like, but it still doesn't explain what we will do about being in or out of the customs union.0 -
I voted Leave. Ideally, I wanted some EFTA or EEA type arrangement. This remains my favoured solution, and Ill be disappointed if we don't end up with it. To be honest, I was never personally that bothered about immigration, and would personally be prepared to make some compromises on that score - but I'm lucky enough to have a middle-class income and can take a ore relaxed view of such things. But I voted leave accepting that it might result in a hard brexit. I'd rather not have a hard brexit, but we must be prepared for it in order to get any sort of deal at all. And I'd rather have a hard brexit than a hard remain.rottenborough said:
Strikes me that the louder Leavers shout down everyone else who dares even mention what do we do next, the more they betray their deep underlying fear that they have made a monumental mistake.Mortimer said:
Honest question Mr Walker - are you an urbanite or a rural dweller?Gardenwalker said:
I just call it as it is. Perhaps we were watching different shows.Mortimer said:
Is that the word you use when people who don't agree with you democratically decide something?Gardenwalker said:
What a hate-filled audience.Mortimer said:
It was the same in Hendon.Jobabob said:
It's a very Brexit town - the audience are coming across as somewhat obsessive.MarqueeMark said:Remaoners getting a kicking on QT from Hartlepool.
This is the new common ground of British politics.
Consequently, Labour are toast.
They shouted down anyone we dared to even suggest we need to actually figure out what happens next.
And they booed the poor Polish woman who had been living there for a 20 years.
Disgraceful showing. If that's mainstream, we're heading straight for dictatorship.
I think this is going to be one of the biggest cleavages in the next century of our politics....
They can stick their fingers in their ears and shout 'democracy' and 'we voted out' as long as they like, but it still doesn't explain what we will do about being in or out of the customs union.
0 -
Entirely OT, but why do so many people struggle with the pronunciation of Ter-ease-a ?
0 -
The big question being to what extent that becomes obvious before the point of no return, and to what extent a nasty surprise afterwards.rottenborough said:
Then we face economic ruin.Philip_Thompson said:
Yes it does, we will be out of it. Out of the single market too and it will be about trying to negotiate the best possible bilateral trade deal between the UK and EU.rottenborough said:
Strikes me that the louder Leavers shout down everyone else who dares even mention what do we do next, the more they betray their deep underlying fear that they have made a monumental mistake.Mortimer said:
Honest question Mr Walker - are you an urbanite or a rural dweller?Gardenwalker said:
I just call it as it is. Perhaps we were watching different shows.Mortimer said:
Is that the word you use when people who don't agree with you democratically decide something?Gardenwalker said:
What a hate-filled audience.Mortimer said:
It was the same in Hendon.Jobabob said:
It's a very Brexit town - the audience are coming across as somewhat obsessive.MarqueeMark said:Remaoners getting a kicking on QT from Hartlepool.
This is the new common ground of British politics.
Consequently, Labour are toast.
They shouted down anyone we dared to even suggest we need to actually figure out what happens next.
And they booed the poor Polish woman who had been living there for a 20 years.
Disgraceful showing. If that's mainstream, we're heading straight for dictatorship.
I think this is going to be one of the biggest cleavages in the next century of our politics....
They can stick their fingers in their ears and shout 'democracy' and 'we voted out' as long as they like, but it still doesn't explain what we will do about being in or out of the customs union.
0 -
East Riding Figures
LD 1497
Con 947
Lab 689
Bev 364
Ind 141
UKIP 1010 -
I've always found that strange too. It used to puzzle me why 'Theresa Green' was supposed to be an unfortunate name.Mortimer said:Entirely OT, but why do so many people struggle with the pronunciation of Ter-ease-a ?
0 -
the cheap answer is because the leavers promised a load of bollx like £350m for the NHS. The longer answer is because the public, by a narrow %, want to leave the EU. The question is whether they will change their minds once the true implications are revealed.williamglenn said:
We've already got the best possible trade deal with the EU. Why not save the trouble and stick with it?Philip_Thompson said:
Yes it does, we will be out of it. Out of the single market too and it will be about trying to negotiate the best possible bilateral trade deal between the UK and EU.rottenborough said:
Strikes me that the louder Leavers shout down everyone else who dares even mention what do we do next, the more they betray their deep underlying fear that they have made a monumental mistake.Mortimer said:
Honest question Mr Walker - are you an urbanite or a rural dweller?Gardenwalker said:
I just call it as it is. Perhaps we were watching different shows.Mortimer said:
Is that the word you use when people who don't agree with you democratically decide something?Gardenwalker said:
What a hate-filled audience.Mortimer said:
It was the same in Hendon.Jobabob said:
It's a very Brexit town - the audience are coming across as somewhat obsessive.MarqueeMark said:Remaoners getting a kicking on QT from Hartlepool.
This is the new common ground of British politics.
Consequently, Labour are toast.
They shouted down anyone we dared to even suggest we need to actually figure out what happens next.
And they booed the poor Polish woman who had been living there for a 20 years.
Disgraceful showing. If that's mainstream, we're heading straight for dictatorship.
I think this is going to be one of the biggest cleavages in the next century of our politics....
They can stick their fingers in their ears and shout 'democracy' and 'we voted out' as long as they like, but it still doesn't explain what we will do about being in or out of the customs union.0 -
Mother Te-rayz-a?Mortimer said:Entirely OT, but why do so many people struggle with the pronunciation of Ter-ease-a ?
0 -
IanB2 said:
The big question being to what extent that becomes obvious before the point of no return, and to what extent a nasty surprise afterwards.rottenborough said:
Then we face economic ruin.Philip_Thompson said:
Yes it does, we will be out of it. Out of the single market too and it will be about trying to negotiate the best possible bilateral trade deal between the UK and EU.rottenborough said:
Strikes me that the louder Leavers shout down everyone else who dares even mention what do we do next, the more they betray their deep underlying fear that they have made a monumental mistake.Mortimer said:
Honest question Mr Walker - are you an urbanite or a rural dweller?Gardenwalker said:
I just call it as it is. Perhaps we were watching different shows.Mortimer said:
Is that the word you use when people who don't agree with you democratically decide something?Gardenwalker said:
What a hate-filled audience.Mortimer said:
It was the same in Hendon.Jobabob said:
It's a very Brexit town - the audience are coming across as somewhat obsessive.MarqueeMark said:Remaoners getting a kicking on QT from Hartlepool.
This is the new common ground of British politics.
Consequently, Labour are toast.
They shouted down anyone we dared to even suggest we need to actually figure out what happens next.
And they booed the poor Polish woman who had been living there for a 20 years.
Disgraceful showing. If that's mainstream, we're heading straight for dictatorship.
I think this is going to be one of the biggest cleavages in the next century of our politics....
They can stick their fingers in their ears and shout 'democracy' and 'we voted out' as long as they like, but it still doesn't explain what we will do about being in or out of the customs union.
Personally, I think there will be a change of heart at some point as the negotiations drag on into years.0 -
Why? If we have a trade deal with the EU then that is the perfect "have cake and eat it" scenario.rottenborough said:
Then we face economic ruin.Philip_Thompson said:
Yes it does, we will be out of it. Out of the single market too and it will be about trying to negotiate the best possible bilateral trade deal between the UK and EU.rottenborough said:
Strikes me that the louder Leavers shout down everyone else who dares even mention what do we do next, the more they betray their deep underlying fear that they have made a monumental mistake.Mortimer said:
Honest question Mr Walker - are you an urbanite or a rural dweller?Gardenwalker said:
I just call it as it is. Perhaps we were watching different shows.Mortimer said:
Is that the word you use when people who don't agree with you democratically decide something?Gardenwalker said:
What a hate-filled audience.Mortimer said:
It was the same in Hendon.Jobabob said:
It's a very Brexit town - the audience are coming across as somewhat obsessive.MarqueeMark said:Remaoners getting a kicking on QT from Hartlepool.
This is the new common ground of British politics.
Consequently, Labour are toast.
They shouted down anyone we dared to even suggest we need to actually figure out what happens next.
And they booed the poor Polish woman who had been living there for a 20 years.
Disgraceful showing. If that's mainstream, we're heading straight for dictatorship.
I think this is going to be one of the biggest cleavages in the next century of our politics....
They can stick their fingers in their ears and shout 'democracy' and 'we voted out' as long as they like, but it still doesn't explain what we will do about being in or out of the customs union.0 -
Because we have a terrible deal the nation has rejected.williamglenn said:
We've already got the best possible trade deal with the EU. Why not save the trouble and stick with it?Philip_Thompson said:
Yes it does, we will be out of it. Out of the single market too and it will be about trying to negotiate the best possible bilateral trade deal between the UK and EU.rottenborough said:
Strikes me that the louder Leavers shout down everyone else who dares even mention what do we do next, the more they betray their deep underlying fear that they have made a monumental mistake.Mortimer said:
Honest question Mr Walker - are you an urbanite or a rural dweller?Gardenwalker said:
I just call it as it is. Perhaps we were watching different shows.Mortimer said:
Is that the word you use when people who don't agree with you democratically decide something?Gardenwalker said:
What a hate-filled audience.Mortimer said:
It was the same in Hendon.Jobabob said:
It's a very Brexit town - the audience are coming across as somewhat obsessive.MarqueeMark said:Remaoners getting a kicking on QT from Hartlepool.
This is the new common ground of British politics.
Consequently, Labour are toast.
They shouted down anyone we dared to even suggest we need to actually figure out what happens next.
And they booed the poor Polish woman who had been living there for a 20 years.
Disgraceful showing. If that's mainstream, we're heading straight for dictatorship.
I think this is going to be one of the biggest cleavages in the next century of our politics....
They can stick their fingers in their ears and shout 'democracy' and 'we voted out' as long as they like, but it still doesn't explain what we will do about being in or out of the customs union.0 -
Conrad Black (despite being an odious character) is presumably well connected and his suggestion that the EU will come back with a last ditch final offer - which is what Boris both wanted and expected before the vote - is of some interest.rottenborough said:
the cheap answer is because the leavers promised a load of bollx like £350m for the NHS. The longer answer is because the public, by a narrow %, want to leave the EU. The question is whether they will change their minds once the true implications are revealed.williamglenn said:
We've already got the best possible trade deal with the EU. Why not save the trouble and stick with it?Philip_Thompson said:
Yes it does, we will be out of it. Out of the single market too and it will be about trying to negotiate the best possible bilateral trade deal between the UK and EU.rottenborough said:
Strikes me that the louder Leavers shout down everyone else who dares even mention what do we do next, the more they betray their deep underlying fear that they have made a monumental mistake.Mortimer said:
Honest question Mr Walker - are you an urbanite or a rural dweller?Gardenwalker said:
I just call it as it is. Perhaps we were watching different shows.Mortimer said:
Is that the word you use when people who don't agree with you democratically decide something?Gardenwalker said:
What a hate-filled audience.Mortimer said:
It was the same in Hendon.Jobabob said:
It's a very Brexit town - the audience are coming across as somewhat obsessive.MarqueeMark said:Remaoners getting a kicking on QT from Hartlepool.
This is the new common ground of British politics.
Consequently, Labour are toast.
They shouted down anyone we dared to even suggest we need to actually figure out what happens next.
And they booed the poor Polish woman who had been living there for a 20 years.
Disgraceful showing. If that's mainstream, we're heading straight for dictatorship.
I think this is going to be one of the biggest cleavages in the next century of our politics....
They can stick their fingers in their ears and shout 'democracy' and 'we voted out' as long as they like, but it still doesn't explain what we will do about being in or out of the customs union.0 -
To be honest, though, my ear is similarly attuned to the intolerance and narrowing of debate by no platforming, political correctness etc.Gardenwalker said:
I'm a filthy Islingtonite.Mortimer said:
Honest question Mr Walker - are you an urbanite or a rural dweller?Gardenwalker said:
I just call it as it is. Perhaps we were watching different shows.Mortimer said:
Is that the word you use when people who don't agree with you democratically decide something?Gardenwalker said:
What a hate-filled audience.Mortimer said:
It was the same in Hendon.Jobabob said:
It's a very Brexit town - the audience are coming across as somewhat obsessive.MarqueeMark said:Remaoners getting a kicking on QT from Hartlepool.
This is the new common ground of British politics.
Consequently, Labour are toast.
They shouted down anyone we dared to even suggest we need to actually figure out what happens next.
And they booed the poor Polish woman who had been living there for a 20 years.
Disgraceful showing. If that's mainstream, we're heading straight for dictatorship.
I think this is going to be one of the biggest cleavages in the next century of our politics....
But I was born and grew up in a working class suburb of Auckland, NZ. My people are car mechanics, book-keepers, machinists.
I get it. I get the power of "take back control" and the feeling of not being heard. But I think I also recognise hate and intolerace.
I'm beginning to think Mr Meeks is right: whatever the rights and wrongs of Brexit, this campaign was won by appealing to people's basest instincts.
And now we reap what was sown. Hard Brexit - because it does not require discussion, understanding, tolerance - naturally follows.
I suspect our bias wants us too....0 -
Incidentally one aspect of why our current deal is the best possible is that we have an absolute guarantee that our competitors in France and Germany will not have preferential access to other markets. How sick would the free-trading Brexit mob be if the EU went on to sign significant FTAs that we were frozen out of?rottenborough said:
the cheap answer is because the leavers promised a load of bollx like £350m for the NHS. The longer answer is because the public, by a narrow %, want to leave the EU. The question is whether they will change their minds once the true implications are revealed.williamglenn said:
We've already got the best possible trade deal with the EU. Why not save the trouble and stick with it?Philip_Thompson said:
Yes it does, we will be out of it. Out of the single market too and it will be about trying to negotiate the best possible bilateral trade deal between the UK and EU.rottenborough said:
Strikes me that the louder Leavers shout down everyone else who dares even mention what do we do next, the more they betray their deep underlying fear that they have made a monumental mistake.Mortimer said:
Honest question Mr Walker - are you an urbanite or a rural dweller?Gardenwalker said:
I just call it as it is. Perhaps we were watching different shows.Mortimer said:
Is that the word you use when people who don't agree with you democratically decide something?Gardenwalker said:
What a hate-filled audience.Mortimer said:
It was the same in Hendon.Jobabob said:
It's a very Brexit town - the audience are coming across as somewhat obsessive.MarqueeMark said:Remaoners getting a kicking on QT from Hartlepool.
This is the new common ground of British politics.
Consequently, Labour are toast.
They shouted down anyone we dared to even suggest we need to actually figure out what happens next.
And they booed the poor Polish woman who had been living there for a 20 years.
Disgraceful showing. If that's mainstream, we're heading straight for dictatorship.
I think this is going to be one of the biggest cleavages in the next century of our politics....
They can stick their fingers in their ears and shout 'democracy' and 'we voted out' as long as they like, but it still doesn't explain what we will do about being in or out of the customs union.0 -
Get back to me about your cake once the UK has negotiated a trade deal with the EU.Philip_Thompson said:
Why? If we have a trade deal with the EU then that is the perfect "have cake and eat it" scenario.rottenborough said:
Then we face economic ruin.Philip_Thompson said:
Yes it does, we will be out of it. Out of the single market too and it will be about trying to negotiate the best possible bilateral trade deal between the UK and EU.rottenborough said:
Strikes me that the louder Leavers shout down everyone else who dares even mention what do we do next, the more they betray their deep underlying fear that they have made a monumental mistake.Mortimer said:
Honest question Mr Walker - are you an urbanite or a rural dweller?Gardenwalker said:
I just call it as it is. Perhaps we were watching different shows.Mortimer said:
Is that the word you use when people who don't agree with you democratically decide something?Gardenwalker said:
What a hate-filled audience.Mortimer said:
It was the same in Hendon.Jobabob said:
It's a very Brexit town - the audience are coming across as somewhat obsessive.MarqueeMark said:Remaoners getting a kicking on QT from Hartlepool.
This is the new common ground of British politics.
Consequently, Labour are toast.
They shouted down anyone we dared to even suggest we need to actually figure out what happens next.
And they booed the poor Polish woman who had been living there for a 20 years.
Disgraceful showing. If that's mainstream, we're heading straight for dictatorship.
I think this is going to be one of the biggest cleavages in the next century of our politics....
They can stick their fingers in their ears and shout 'democracy' and 'we voted out' as long as they like, but it still doesn't explain what we will do about being in or out of the customs union.0 -
I expect if the other parties had stood, turnout would have been higher.AndyJS said:
Nobody in mainstream politics wanted the byelection - it exists because we have a democratic system that has no proper protocol for what happens after a political assassination. By not standing, the respectable democratic parties entrench the convention.0 -
Both sides told bollocks like the £4300 per family that we'd be worse off if we left. What do you think is due to be revealed that hasn't already been said?rottenborough said:
the cheap answer is because the leavers promised a load of bollx like £350m for the NHS. The longer answer is because the public, by a narrow %, want to leave the EU. The question is whether they will change their minds once the true implications are revealed.williamglenn said:
We've already got the best possible trade deal with the EU. Why not save the trouble and stick with it?Philip_Thompson said:
Yes it does, we will be out of it. Out of the single market too and it will be about trying to negotiate the best possible bilateral trade deal between the UK and EU.rottenborough said:
Strikes me that the louder Leavers shout down everyone else who dares even mention what do we do next, the more they betray their deep underlying fear that they have made a monumental mistake.Mortimer said:
Honest question Mr Walker - are you an urbanite or a rural dweller?Gardenwalker said:
I just call it as it is. Perhaps we were watching different shows.Mortimer said:
Is that the word you use when people who don't agree with you democratically decide something?Gardenwalker said:
What a hate-filled audience.Mortimer said:
It was the same in Hendon.Jobabob said:
It's a very Brexit town - the audience are coming across as somewhat obsessive.MarqueeMark said:Remaoners getting a kicking on QT from Hartlepool.
This is the new common ground of British politics.
Consequently, Labour are toast.
They shouted down anyone we dared to even suggest we need to actually figure out what happens next.
And they booed the poor Polish woman who had been living there for a 20 years.
Disgraceful showing. If that's mainstream, we're heading straight for dictatorship.
I think this is going to be one of the biggest cleavages in the next century of our politics....
They can stick their fingers in their ears and shout 'democracy' and 'we voted out' as long as they like, but it still doesn't explain what we will do about being in or out of the customs union.0 -
Could be.Gardenwalker said:
Mother Te-rayz-a?Mortimer said:Entirely OT, but why do so many people struggle with the pronunciation of Ter-ease-a ?
Is that actually how the nun's name was meant to be pronounced?
0 -
To be fair, I think the public get the implications.rottenborough said:
the cheap answer is because the leavers promised a load of bollx like £350m for the NHS. The longer answer is because the public, by a narrow %, want to leave the EU. The question is whether they will change their minds once the true implications are revealed.williamglenn said:
We've already got the best possible trade deal with the EU. Why not save the trouble and stick with it?Philip_Thompson said:
Yes it does, we will be out of it. Out of the single market too and it will be about trying to negotiate the best possible bilateral trade deal between the UK and EU.rottenborough said:
Strikes me that the louder Leavers shout down everyone else who dares even mention what do we do next, the more they betray their deep underlying fear that they have made a monumental mistake.Mortimer said:
Honest question Mr Walker - are you an urbanite or a rural dweller?Gardenwalker said:
I just call it as it is. Perhaps we were watching different shows.Mortimer said:
Is that the word you use when people who don't agree with you democratically decide something?Gardenwalker said:
What a hate-filled audience.Mortimer said:
It was the same in Hendon.Jobabob said:
It's a very Brexit town - the audience are coming across as somewhat obsessive.MarqueeMark said:Remaoners getting a kicking on QT from Hartlepool.
This is the new common ground of British politics.
Consequently, Labour are toast.
They shouted down anyone we dared to even suggest we need to actually figure out what happens next.
And they booed the poor Polish woman who had been living there for a 20 years.
Disgraceful showing. If that's mainstream, we're heading straight for dictatorship.
I think this is going to be one of the biggest cleavages in the next century of our politics....
They can stick their fingers in their ears and shout 'democracy' and 'we voted out' as long as they like, but it still doesn't explain what we will do about being in or out of the customs union.
I've seen a few times Brexiters saying they understood very well the loss of the single market.
Now they may not be fully across the precise detail (witness the lady in the QT audience tonight who claimed the WTO was just as good) but they get the trade off of control for prosperity.
They just don't seem to care.
We Remainers who think it's a matter of explaining it more carefully are backing a losing horse.0 -
If other main parties had been standing then turnout would almost certainly have been higher.AndyJS said:0 -
Sure. We can then also negotiate trade deals with America, Japan, Australia, India etc - get back to me when the EU does those.rottenborough said:
Get back to me about your cake once the UK has negotiated a trade deal with the EU.Philip_Thompson said:
Why? If we have a trade deal with the EU then that is the perfect "have cake and eat it" scenario.rottenborough said:
Then we face economic ruin.Philip_Thompson said:
Yes it does, we will be out of it. Out of the single market too and it will be about trying to negotiate the best possible bilateral trade deal between the UK and EU.rottenborough said:
Strikes me that the louder Leavers shout down everyone else who dares even mention what do we do next, the more they betray their deep underlying fear that they have made a monumental mistake.Mortimer said:
Honest question Mr Walker - are you an urbanite or a rural dweller?Gardenwalker said:
I just call it as it is. Perhaps we were watching different shows.Mortimer said:
Is that the word you use when people who don't agree with you democratically decide something?Gardenwalker said:
What a hate-filled audience.Mortimer said:
It was the same in Hendon.Jobabob said:
It's a very Brexit town - the audience are coming across as somewhat obsessive.MarqueeMark said:Remaoners getting a kicking on QT from Hartlepool.
This is the new common ground of British politics.
Consequently, Labour are toast.
They shouted down anyone we dared to even suggest we need to actually figure out what happens next.
And they booed the poor Polish woman who had been living there for a 20 years.
Disgraceful showing. If that's mainstream, we're heading straight for dictatorship.
I think this is going to be one of the biggest cleavages in the next century of our politics....
They can stick their fingers in their ears and shout 'democracy' and 'we voted out' as long as they like, but it still doesn't explain what we will do about being in or out of the customs union.0 -
At what point do remainers realise they are not that clever and that leavers are not all stupid.
Remainers need to keep two things in mind either they were too stupid to convince the electorate that remain was the best choice or Brexit was actually the best choice.
0 -
Why would that happen? Seriously the opposite is infinitely more likely.williamglenn said:
Incidentally one aspect of why our current deal is the best possible is that we have an absolute guarantee that our competitors in France and Germany will not have preferential access to other markets. How sick would the free-trading Brexit mob be if the EU went on to sign significant FTAs that we were frozen out of?rottenborough said:
the cheap answer is because the leavers promised a load of bollx like £350m for the NHS. The longer answer is because the public, by a narrow %, want to leave the EU. The question is whether they will change their minds once the true implications are revealed.williamglenn said:
We've already got the best possible trade deal with the EU. Why not save the trouble and stick with it?Philip_Thompson said:
Yes it does, we will be out of it. Out of the single market too and it will be about trying to negotiate the best possible bilateral trade deal between the UK and EU.rottenborough said:
Strikes me that the louder Leavers shout down everyone else who dares even mention what do we do next, the more they betray their deep underlying fear that they have made a monumental mistake.Mortimer said:
Honest question Mr Walker - are you an urbanite or a rural dweller?Gardenwalker said:
I just call it as it is. Perhaps we were watching different shows.Mortimer said:
Is that the word you use when people who don't agree with you democratically decide something?Gardenwalker said:
What a hate-filled audience.Mortimer said:
It was the same in Hendon.Jobabob said:
It's a very Brexit town - the audience are coming across as somewhat obsessive.MarqueeMark said:Remaoners getting a kicking on QT from Hartlepool.
This is the new common ground of British politics.
Consequently, Labour are toast.
They shouted down anyone we dared to even suggest we need to actually figure out what happens next.
And they booed the poor Polish woman who had been living there for a 20 years.
Disgraceful showing. If that's mainstream, we're heading straight for dictatorship.
I think this is going to be one of the biggest cleavages in the next century of our politics....
They can stick their fingers in their ears and shout 'democracy' and 'we voted out' as long as they like, but it still doesn't explain what we will do about being in or out of the customs union.0 -
Andrew Neil making the very good point that Leave and Remain said Leaving would mean leaving the Single Market, so why the howling....0
-
In a trade negotiation size is everything.Philip_Thompson said:
Why would that happen? Seriously the opposite is infinitely more likely.williamglenn said:
Incidentally one aspect of why our current deal is the best possible is that we have an absolute guarantee that our competitors in France and Germany will not have preferential access to other markets. How sick would the free-trading Brexit mob be if the EU went on to sign significant FTAs that we were frozen out of?rottenborough said:
the cheap answer is because the leavers promised a load of bollx like £350m for the NHS. The longer answer is because the public, by a narrow %, want to leave the EU. The question is whether they will change their minds once the true implications are revealed.williamglenn said:
We've already got the best possible trade deal with the EU. Why not save the trouble and stick with it?Philip_Thompson said:
Yes it does, we will be out of it. Out of the single market too and it will be about trying to negotiate the best possible bilateral trade deal between the UK and EU.rottenborough said:
Strikes me that the louder Leavers shout down everyone else who dares even mention what do we do next, the more they betray their deep underlying fear that they have made a monumental mistake.Mortimer said:
Honest question Mr Walker - are you an urbanite or a rural dweller?Gardenwalker said:
I just call it as it is. Perhaps we were watching different shows.Mortimer said:
Is that the word you use when people who don't agree with you democratically decide something?Gardenwalker said:
What a hate-filled audience.Mortimer said:
It was the same in Hendon.Jobabob said:
It's a very Brexit town - .MarqueeMark said:Remaoners getting a kicking on QT from Hartlepool.
This is the new common ground of British politics.
Consequently, Labour are toast.
They shouted down anyone we dared to even suggest we need to actually figure out what happens next.
And they booed the poor Polish woman who had been living there for a 20 years.
Disgraceful showing. If that's mainstream, we're heading straight for dictatorship.
I think this is going to be one of the biggest cleavages in the next century of our politics....
They can stick their fingers in their ears and shout 'democracy' and 'we voted out' as long as they like, but it still doesn't explain what we will do about being in or out of the customs union.
0 -
Dear Remainers
Sometimes people have greater motivations than their own back pocket to decide how they vote.
0 -
25.8% turnout in Batley & Spen would be about 20,000 votes.0
-
"We must be SAD, literally SAD!"brokenwheel said:
Because we're weird.Pulpstar said:Why is it that we always care about by-elections far more than the residents of the seat ever do
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Except it doesn't work that way. When the economy tanks and businesses that trade with EU shut up shop because Fox's fantasy trading arrangements with India didn't actually materialise, then the people out of work will forget which way they voted and start jumping up and down and moaning why is everything 10x worse than it was a few years ago.
Even if leaving the EU was a good idea at some point, we have picked a bloody bad time, economically, to give it a go.0 -
Well she was Albanian, but probably became famous via an Italian speaking Catholic media.Mortimer said:
Could be.Gardenwalker said:
Mother Te-rayz-a?Mortimer said:Entirely OT, but why do so many people struggle with the pronunciation of Ter-ease-a ?
Is that actually how the nun's name was meant to be pronounced?
So who knows.
My white working class persona tells me it's Ter-ease-a May, and anything else is putting on airs.0 -
As with Trump - all you need to do is to abandon people to your contempt for long enough. They will then find a cause.Gardenwalker said:
I'm a filthy Islingtonite.Mortimer said:
Honest question Mr Walker - are you an urbanite or a rural dweller?Gardenwalker said:
I just call it as it is. Perhaps we were watching different shows.Mortimer said:
Is that the word you use when people who don't agree with you democratically decide something?Gardenwalker said:
What a hate-filled audience.Mortimer said:
It was the same in Hendon.Jobabob said:
It's a very Brexit town - the audience are coming across as somewhat obsessive.MarqueeMark said:Remaoners getting a kicking on QT from Hartlepool.
This is the new common ground of British politics.
Consequently, Labour are toast.
They shouted down anyone we dared to even suggest we need to actually figure out what happens next.
And they booed the poor Polish woman who had been living there for a 20 years.
Disgraceful showing. If that's mainstream, we're heading straight for dictatorship.
I think this is going to be one of the biggest cleavages in the next century of our politics....
But I was born and grew up in a working class suburb of Auckland, NZ. My people are car mechanics, book-keepers, machinists.
I get it. I get the power of "take back control" and the feeling of not being heard. But I think I also recognise hate and intolerace.
I'm beginning to think Mr Meeks is right: whatever the rights and wrongs of Brexit, this campaign was won by appealing to people's basest instincts.
And now we reap what was sown. Hard Brexit - because it does not require discussion, understanding, tolerance - naturally follows.
A number of years ago I lived in the town of Malmesbury for a while. Lovely looking place - medieval stone buildings etc. The locals don't live in the nice part of the town. They live in the estate over the hill. Priced out. They are sneered at by the incomers - I was actually told off for drinking in a "local" pub, by a wonderfully progressive type. There is no development to "spoil" the locality with jobs - all carefully kept in check by the kind of people who blame Thatcher for the demise of British industry....
The funny bit is that the incomers don't understand why they are not liked - they pay cash in hand for the gardening/decorating jobs after all. And it is so natural to hate people who drink beer from tins and put English flags in their windows.... What could possibly be wrong with that?0 -
Bull. In a trade negotiation flexibility is everything. Besides our size is already big in its own right. Besides the US, China, EU and Japan we are the world's largest economy. The EU can't and won't sign a deal with itself and will not sign a deal with the US, China or Japan either (TTIP is dead). We might with those sign one independent of the EU.IanB2 said:
In a trade negotiation size is everything.Philip_Thompson said:Why would that happen? Seriously the opposite is infinitely more likely.
For every other nation in the globe we are bigger than them.0 -
Or maybe Te-Razor.....Gardenwalker said:
Well she was Albanian, but probably became famous via an Italian speaking Catholic media.Mortimer said:
Could be.Gardenwalker said:
Mother Te-rayz-a?Mortimer said:Entirely OT, but why do so many people struggle with the pronunciation of Ter-ease-a ?
Is that actually how the nun's name was meant to be pronounced?
So who knows.
My white working class persona tells me it's Ter-ease-a May, and anything else is putting on airs.0 -
Because the question on the ballot paper was about leaving the EU. Everything else is up to Parliament.Mortimer said:Andrew Neil making the very good point that Leave and Remain said Leaving would mean leaving the Single Market, so why the howling....
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There was someone at my school called "Tree-sa". It took me a long time to work out their name was actually Teresa.Gardenwalker said:
Well she was Albanian, but probably became famous via an Italian speaking Catholic media.Mortimer said:
Could be.Gardenwalker said:
Mother Te-rayz-a?Mortimer said:Entirely OT, but why do so many people struggle with the pronunciation of Ter-ease-a ?
Is that actually how the nun's name was meant to be pronounced?
So who knows.
My white working class persona tells me it's Ter-ease-a May, and anything else is putting on airs.0
This discussion has been closed.