politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » What The Great Repeal Bill means for triggering Article 50
Comments
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One of the saving graces of the Leave vote was the political demise of Osborne. Front bench-wise anyway! Now, if we could only persuade Martin Bell to stand for Tatton again.........glw said:
I'd be amazed if the public believed it. The best thing Osborne can do is leave parliament.FrankBooth said:I think the reinvention of George Osborne from scheming Machiavellian to principled backbencher will be more fascinating than bruiser Balls turned prime time dancer. I'd guess the public will be less likely to buy it though.
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Most legislation from the EU comes in the form of Framework Directives which countries then have an agreed amount of time to transcribe into national legislation. We have a better record than most in doing this and we also have a tendency to somewhat gold plate the legislation making it more restrictive and intrusive than other countries find necessary.
What I expect to happen now is that all framework directives that we agree will have a timescale for implementation after March 2019. It will then be entirely our choice about whether to implement them or not. Some of them we will because they are sensible changes (not all EU legislation is some weird foreign plot to do us down). Some will fix mistakes in the previous legislation that we will also want to fix. And some we will need to implement just in case we end up with unfettered access to the Single Market and implementation is a condition of that.
What I think is significant is that massive areas of competence are going to revert to the UK in a relatively short period of time. Our legislators will actually have to think about the laws in a wide range of areas that they have not applied their minds to for decades. Our legislators are going to have to learn fast about a lot of new areas, get relevant Parliamentary Committees set up to review the laws in these areas and become the focus of a wide range of pressure and interest groups that currently hang around Brussels. Parliament is going to be a busier place.0 -
GIN, vefy well indeed, weekend weather has been lovely , will spend afternoon in garden reading the paper , possibly a nice bottle of cider and then roast chicken dinner. What more can one ask for.GIN1138 said:
Morning Malc. Yes, very well thanks.malcolmg said:
Morning GIN, hope you are well.GIN1138 said:
And should the Commons or more likely the Lords try to hold things up, an election is not ruled out...CarlottaVance said:@patrickwintour May gave clarity today. Trigger Article 50 by March 2017 so UK out by 2019 and EU Repeal bill passed by then so UK has own legal framework
Have been watching mega rich playboys go round and round in circles on telly (sounds a bit like our rulers in a lot of ways doesn't it?
) and now I'm off to enjoy the sunshine. 
You OK?0 -
Agreed. The demise of Osborne is a bonus on top of Brexit.OldKingCole said:
One of the saving graces of the Leave vote was the political demise of Osborne. Front bench-wise anyway! Now, if we could only persuade Martin Bell to stand for Tatton again.........glw said:
I'd be amazed if the public believed it. The best thing Osborne can do is leave parliament.FrankBooth said:I think the reinvention of George Osborne from scheming Machiavellian to principled backbencher will be more fascinating than bruiser Balls turned prime time dancer. I'd guess the public will be less likely to buy it though.
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I read on PB.com last night that Rod Crosby is currently in the "sinbin"
Why, what happened?
Let's hope he's minded to return and asap.
Along with JackW, but in a totally different way, he's amongst the best minds on PB.com, especially when it comes to election forecasting. 'Tis a pity we don't have the benefit of his intellectual input right now, with the POTUS elections barely a month away.0 -
He went off on one again about the Holocaust. He has been banned for quite a long time now. Unfortunately, despite his excellent insight into polling, his second favourite subject is one he has rather odd ideas about and OGH has warned him many times just to avoid the subject.peter_from_putney said:I read on PB.com last night that Rod Crosby is currently in the "sinbin"
Why, what happened?
Let's hope he's minded to return and asap.
Along with JackW, but in a totally different way, he's amongst the best minds on PB.com, especially when it comes to election forecasting. 'Tis a pity we don't have the benefit of his intellectual input right now, with the POTUS elections barely a month away.0 -
Roast lamb?malcolmg said:
GIN, vefy well indeed, weekend weather has been lovely , will spend afternoon in garden reading the paper , possibly a nice bottle of cider and then roast chicken dinner. What more can one ask for.GIN1138 said:
Morning Malc. Yes, very well thanks.malcolmg said:
Morning GIN, hope you are well.GIN1138 said:
And should the Commons or more likely the Lords try to hold things up, an election is not ruled out...CarlottaVance said:@patrickwintour May gave clarity today. Trigger Article 50 by March 2017 so UK out by 2019 and EU Repeal bill passed by then so UK has own legal framework
Have been watching mega rich playboys go round and round in circles on telly (sounds a bit like our rulers in a lot of ways doesn't it? ) and now I'm off to enjoy the sunshine.
You OK?0 -
Very good insight into the legislative process over the past couple of days. Thanks.DavidL said:Most legislation from the EU comes in the form of Framework Directives which countries then have an agreed amount of time to transcribe into national legislation. We have a better record than most in doing this and we also have a tendency to somewhat gold plate the legislation making it more restrictive and intrusive than other countries find necessary.
What I expect to happen now is that all framework directives that we agree will have a timescale for implementation after March 2019. It will then be entirely our choice about whether to implement them or not. Some of them we will because they are sensible changes (not all EU legislation is some weird foreign plot to do us down). Some will fix mistakes in the previous legislation that we will also want to fix. And some we will need to implement just in case we end up with unfettered access to the Single Market and implementation is a condition of that.
What I think is significant is that massive areas of competence are going to revert to the UK in a relatively short period of time. Our legislators will actually have to think about the laws in a wide range of areas that they have not applied their minds to for decades. Our legislators are going to have to learn fast about a lot of new areas, get relevant Parliamentary Committees set up to review the laws in these areas and become the focus of a wide range of pressure and interest groups that currently hang around Brussels. Parliament is going to be a busier place.0 -
Hmm, Roast Pork or roast beef as well, always hard to choose. Today it is chicken though.DavidL said:
Roast lamb?malcolmg said:
GIN, vefy well indeed, weekend weather has been lovely , will spend afternoon in garden reading the paper , possibly a nice bottle of cider and then roast chicken dinner. What more can one ask for.GIN1138 said:
Morning Malc. Yes, very well thanks.malcolmg said:
Morning GIN, hope you are well.GIN1138 said:
And should the Commons or more likely the Lords try to hold things up, an election is not ruled out...CarlottaVance said:@patrickwintour May gave clarity today. Trigger Article 50 by March 2017 so UK out by 2019 and EU Repeal bill passed by then so UK has own legal framework
Have been watching mega rich playboys go round and round in circles on telly (sounds a bit like our rulers in a lot of ways doesn't it? ) and now I'm off to enjoy the sunshine.
You OK?0 -
Beef for us. Highland cattle from the Farmers Market. Just delicious.malcolmg said:
Hmm, Roast Pork or roast beef as well, always hard to choose. Today it is chicken though.DavidL said:
Roast lamb?malcolmg said:
GIN, vefy well indeed, weekend weather has been lovely , will spend afternoon in garden reading the paper , possibly a nice bottle of cider and then roast chicken dinner. What more can one ask for.GIN1138 said:
Morning Malc. Yes, very well thanks.malcolmg said:
Morning GIN, hope you are well.GIN1138 said:
And should the Commons or more likely the Lords try to hold things up, an election is not ruled out...CarlottaVance said:@patrickwintour May gave clarity today. Trigger Article 50 by March 2017 so UK out by 2019 and EU Repeal bill passed by then so UK has own legal framework
Have been watching mega rich playboys go round and round in circles on telly (sounds a bit like our rulers in a lot of ways doesn't it? ) and now I'm off to enjoy the sunshine.
You OK?0 -
Came up a couple of weeks ago too.FrancisUrquhart said:
He went off on one again about the Holocaust. He has been banned for quite a long time now. Unfortunately, despite his excellent insight into polling, his second favourite subject is one he has rather odd ideas about and OGH has warned him many times just to avoid the subject.peter_from_putney said:I read on PB.com last night that Rod Crosby is currently in the "sinbin"
Why, what happened?
Let's hope he's minded to return and asap.
Along with JackW, but in a totally different way, he's amongst the best minds on PB.com, especially when it comes to election forecasting. 'Tis a pity we don't have the benefit of his intellectual input right now, with the POTUS elections barely a month away.
http://politicalbetting.vanillaforums.com/discussion/comment/1274290/#Comment_12742900 -
Mocking people's illnesses is the opposite of the values of every decent person, whatever their politics.Paul_Bedfordshire said:
He is the absolute caricature of everything that neopuritan liberal do gooder sanctimonious politically correct types like Clintonn loathe with every fibre of their being.Dromedary said:Why do you expect introducing the bill will coincide with invoking Article 50? What's the point in invoking Article 50 and then having the Commons, or indeed the Lords, vote the bill down?
Meanwhile, Trump has now physically mocked how Clinton stumbled and collapsed on 11 September owing to pneumonia:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEmkIPfa6w8
Last year he mocked a reporter's arthrogryposis:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqtoUFW5svQ
He has also insulted those who suffer from super obesity, saying that the hacking into the DNC's computer, rather than being the work of Russian intelligence, might have been done by someone who weighs 400 pounds:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfVce4rELAY
Does anyone who isn't a gun nut headbanger have a good reason to support this guy? C'mon, Trump surrogates with any sense of what makes and doesn't make a decent human being, withdraw your backing in an organised way and call for this casino-bankrupting, tax-avoiding, embargo-breaking billionaire to resign his candidacy.
Which is why it will be so hilarious and good for democracy if he won.
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Watching an SNP criticise May for being vague over separating from the EU, the irony cannot be lost on him bless his little cotton socks.0
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Nothing like well-cooked roast beef with, of course, Yorkshire pudding.DavidL said:
Beef for us. Highland cattle from the Farmers Market. Just delicious.malcolmg said:
Hmm, Roast Pork or roast beef as well, always hard to choose. Today it is chicken though.DavidL said:
Roast lamb?malcolmg said:
GIN, vefy well indeed, weekend weather has been lovely , will spend afternoon in garden reading the paper , possibly a nice bottle of cider and then roast chicken dinner. What more can one ask for.GIN1138 said:
Morning Malc. Yes, very well thanks.malcolmg said:
Morning GIN, hope you are well.GIN1138 said:
And should the Commons or more likely the Lords try to hold things up, an election is not ruled out...CarlottaVance said:@patrickwintour May gave clarity today. Trigger Article 50 by March 2017 so UK out by 2019 and EU Repeal bill passed by then so UK has own legal framework
Have been watching mega rich playboys go round and round in circles on telly (sounds a bit like our rulers in a lot of ways doesn't it? ) and now I'm off to enjoy the sunshine.
You OK?
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That's if there is a reform Act. If Parliament is to decide on whether or not to repeal the earlier Act, in other words on whether or not Britain should leave the EU, then the government should not be allowed to trigger Article 50 unless Parliament passes the reform bill. Hopefully the Supreme Court will agree. But even if May shows her contempt for Parliament by sending a letter first and then hearing afterwards what Parliament thinks, surely it is within the SC's authority to rule later that sending the letter was unlawful.CarlottaVance said:
He also tweets: If I were dead set on Leaving, this is exactly what I would do.Gadfly said:Jo Maugham QC appeared to be having a rethink last night. The Sunday Times have reported that the Act will postdate triggering A50. which apparently suggests that the challenge will still happen.
And:
Here's the Manifesto commitment to "respect the outcome". Under Salisbury convention, would a Repeal Act still need HL approval?
His 'rethink' is:
Reading the (far better) Sunday Times report it looks like the challenge will still happen because the Act will postdate triggering A50.
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Trump is a scumbag. The reason he is winning votes is because he is saying "I do not hate you " to a large group who are quite explicitly despised by the Establishment.Dromedary said:
Mocking people's illnesses is the opposite of the values of every decent person, whatever their politics.Paul_Bedfordshire said:
He is the absolute caricature of everything that neopuritan liberal do gooder sanctimonious politically correct types like Clintonn loathe with every fibre of their being.Dromedary said:Why do you expect introducing the bill will coincide with invoking Article 50? What's the point in invoking Article 50 and then having the Commons, or indeed the Lords, vote the bill down?
Meanwhile, Trump has now physically mocked how Clinton stumbled and collapsed on 11 September owing to pneumonia:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEmkIPfa6w8
Last year he mocked a reporter's arthrogryposis:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqtoUFW5svQ
He has also insulted those who suffer from super obesity, saying that the hacking into the DNC's computer, rather than being the work of Russian intelligence, might have been done by someone who weighs 400 pounds:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfVce4rELAY
Does anyone who isn't a gun nut headbanger have a good reason to support this guy? C'mon, Trump surrogates with any sense of what makes and doesn't make a decent human being, withdraw your backing in an organised way and call for this casino-bankrupting, tax-avoiding, embargo-breaking billionaire to resign his candidacy.
Which is why it will be so hilarious and good for democracy if he won.
Trump will, hopefully, fail. Sadly, nothing will change until a worse choice comes along - by that I mean an electable Trump. Imagine Huey Long resurrected....0 -
People who support Trump- it says alot more than about them than anything else.Dromedary said:
Mocking people's illnesses is the opposite of the values of every decent person, whatever their politics.Paul_Bedfordshire said:
He is the absolute caricature of everything that neopuritan liberal do gooder sanctimonious politically correct types like Clintonn loathe with every fibre of their being.Dromedary said:Why do you expect introducing the bill will coincide with invoking Article 50? What's the point in invoking Article 50 and then having the Commons, or indeed the Lords, vote the bill down?
Meanwhile, Trump has now physically mocked how Clinton stumbled and collapsed on 11 September owing to pneumonia:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEmkIPfa6w8
Last year he mocked a reporter's arthrogryposis:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqtoUFW5svQ
He has also insulted those who suffer from super obesity, saying that the hacking into the DNC's computer, rather than being the work of Russian intelligence, might have been done by someone who weighs 400 pounds:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfVce4rELAY
Does anyone who isn't a gun nut headbanger have a good reason to support this guy? C'mon, Trump surrogates with any sense of what makes and doesn't make a decent human being, withdraw your backing in an organised way and call for this casino-bankrupting, tax-avoiding, embargo-breaking billionaire to resign his candidacy.
Which is why it will be so hilarious and good for democracy if he won.
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There are plenty of nice dishes to eat without murdering something.malcolmg said:
Hmm, Roast Pork or roast beef as well, always hard to choose. Today it is chicken though.DavidL said:
Roast lamb?malcolmg said:
GIN, vefy well indeed, weekend weather has been lovely , will spend afternoon in garden reading the paper , possibly a nice bottle of cider and then roast chicken dinner. What more can one ask for.GIN1138 said:
Morning Malc. Yes, very well thanks.malcolmg said:
Morning GIN, hope you are well.GIN1138 said:
And should the Commons or more likely the Lords try to hold things up, an election is not ruled out...CarlottaVance said:@patrickwintour May gave clarity today. Trigger Article 50 by March 2017 so UK out by 2019 and EU Repeal bill passed by then so UK has own legal framework
Have been watching mega rich playboys go round and round in circles on telly (sounds a bit like our rulers in a lot of ways doesn't it? ) and now I'm off to enjoy the sunshine.
You OK?
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The man is clearly unfit to be President. Don't forget the Americans are elected someone who is effectively their head of state. Do they really want this guy operating on the world stage?tyson said:
People who support Trump- it says alot more than about them than anything else.Dromedary said:
Mocking people's illnesses is the opposite of the values of every decent person, whatever their politics.Paul_Bedfordshire said:
He is the absolute caricature of everything that neopuritan liberal do gooder sanctimonious politically correct types like Clintonn loathe with every fibre of their being.Dromedary said:Why do you expect introducing the bill will coincide with invoking Article 50? What's the point in invoking Article 50 and then having the Commons, or indeed the Lords, vote the bill down?
Meanwhile, Trump has now physically mocked how Clinton stumbled and collapsed on 11 September owing to pneumonia:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEmkIPfa6w8
Last year he mocked a reporter's arthrogryposis:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqtoUFW5svQ
He has also insulted those who suffer from super obesity, saying that the hacking into the DNC's computer, rather than being the work of Russian intelligence, might have been done by someone who weighs 400 pounds:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfVce4rELAY
Does anyone who isn't a gun nut headbanger have a good reason to support this guy? C'mon, Trump surrogates with any sense of what makes and doesn't make a decent human being, withdraw your backing in an organised way and call for this casino-bankrupting, tax-avoiding, embargo-breaking billionaire to resign his candidacy.
Which is why it will be so hilarious and good for democracy if he won.
How long before he starts making jokes about the way Ban Ki-Moon uses english or he is goose stepping around Berlin as he meets Merkel. Tell me this disaster is not going to happen.0 -
You are absolutely correct, Mr. Cole. One major drawback I cannot cook roast beef. I just cannot get it right. I tried for years before I eventually gave up and now we only have it when we dine at a decent quality restaurant (most pub chefs are no better than I am).OldKingCole said:
Nothing like well-cooked roast beef with, of course, Yorkshire pudding.DavidL said:
Beef for us. Highland cattle from the Farmers Market. Just delicious.malcolmg said:
Hmm, Roast Pork or roast beef as well, always hard to choose. Today it is chicken though.DavidL said:
Roast lamb?malcolmg said:
GIN, vefy well indeed, weekend weather has been lovely , will spend afternoon in garden reading the paper , possibly a nice bottle of cider and then roast chicken dinner. What more can one ask for.GIN1138 said:
Morning Malc. Yes, very well thanks.malcolmg said:
Morning GIN, hope you are well.GIN1138 said:
And should the Commons or more likely the Lords try to hold things up, an election is not ruled out...CarlottaVance said:@patrickwintour May gave clarity today. Trigger Article 50 by March 2017 so UK out by 2019 and EU Repeal bill passed by then so UK has own legal framework
Have been watching mega rich playboys go round and round in circles on telly (sounds a bit like our rulers in a lot of ways doesn't it? ) and now I'm off to enjoy the sunshine.
You OK?
However, I have a life-long love of Yorkshire pudding (as a child we used to have the remains of it cold on Monday smeared with Jam). A taste which my son has inherited so when he is home I usually serve Yorkshires with the roast lamb. A heresy but what can you do?
Today we are once again going to sit down to a curry lunch. I can't be bothered to do a roast for just the two of us (not so much the cooking but the bloody washing up) and we both love curry at lunch time. Recipes from the South-Indian Housewives Cookbook, delicious.0 -
Just got to my parents house and my dad's got the lamb cooking!DavidL said:
Beef for us. Highland cattle from the Farmers Market. Just delicious.malcolmg said:
Hmm, Roast Pork or roast beef as well, always hard to choose. Today it is chicken though.DavidL said:
Roast lamb?malcolmg said:
GIN, vefy well indeed, weekend weather has been lovely , will spend afternoon in garden reading the paper , possibly a nice bottle of cider and then roast chicken dinner. What more can one ask for.GIN1138 said:
Morning Malc. Yes, very well thanks.malcolmg said:
Morning GIN, hope you are well.GIN1138 said:
And should the Commons or more likely the Lords try to hold things up, an election is not ruled out...CarlottaVance said:@patrickwintour May gave clarity today. Trigger Article 50 by March 2017 so UK out by 2019 and EU Repeal bill passed by then so UK has own legal framework
Have been watching mega rich playboys go round and round in circles on telly (sounds a bit like our rulers in a lot of ways doesn't it? ) and now I'm off to enjoy the sunshine.
You OK?
Now I've got to do the rest.0 -
Open the bottles? Did I miss anything?MaxPB said:
Just got to my parents house and my dad's got the lamb cooking!DavidL said:
Beef for us. Highland cattle from the Farmers Market. Just delicious.malcolmg said:
Hmm, Roast Pork or roast beef as well, always hard to choose. Today it is chicken though.DavidL said:
Roast lamb?malcolmg said:
GIN, vefy well indeed, weekend weather has been lovely , will spend afternoon in garden reading the paper , possibly a nice bottle of cider and then roast chicken dinner. What more can one ask for.GIN1138 said:
Morning Malc. Yes, very well thanks.malcolmg said:
Morning GIN, hope you are well.GIN1138 said:
And should the Commons or more likely the Lords try to hold things up, an election is not ruled out...CarlottaVance said:@patrickwintour May gave clarity today. Trigger Article 50 by March 2017 so UK out by 2019 and EU Repeal bill passed by then so UK has own legal framework
Have been watching mega rich playboys go round and round in circles on telly (sounds a bit like our rulers in a lot of ways doesn't it? ) and now I'm off to enjoy the sunshine.
You OK?
Now I've got to do the rest.0 -
Well I didn't know this, Big Sam's agent Curtis employed Big Sam's son in 2006. I thought he worked for himself at the time of the Panorama investigation.
Former mobile phone salesman Curtis helped get Allardyce the Notts County manager’s job in 1997 before he moved to Bolton Wanderers in 1999. It was there that a BBC Panorama probe alleged Allardyce’s son Craig accepted bungs for transfers while working for Curtis.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/1893817/premier-league-star-ravel-morrison-secretly-taped-sam-allardyce-in-furious-bust-up-over-money-and-agents/0 -
Showing her "contempt for parliament" by using powers she and preceding governments have had since time immemorial ? Its another case of if you don't like the system then campaign and vote to change it, at the moment we are a constitutional monarchy, and the executive as a result exercises the reserve powers of the sovereign, including inter alia, the power to make and abrogate treaties.Dromedary said:
That's if there is a reform Act. If Parliament is to decide on whether or not to repeal the earlier Act, in other words on whether or not Britain should leave the EU, then the government should not be allowed to trigger Article 50 unless Parliament passes the reform bill. Hopefully the Supreme Court will agree. But even if May shows her contempt for Parliament by sending a letter first and then hearing afterwards what Parliament thinks, surely it is within the SC's authority to rule later that sending the letter was unlawful.CarlottaVance said:
He also tweets: If I were dead set on Leaving, this is exactly what I would do.Gadfly said:Jo Maugham QC appeared to be having a rethink last night. The Sunday Times have reported that the Act will postdate triggering A50. which apparently suggests that the challenge will still happen.
And:
Here's the Manifesto commitment to "respect the outcome". Under Salisbury convention, would a Repeal Act still need HL approval?
His 'rethink' is:
Reading the (far better) Sunday Times report it looks like the challenge will still happen because the Act will postdate triggering A50.0 -
In which case, reducing the number of legislators by 10% seems particularly ill timed.DavidL said:Most legislation from the EU comes in the form of Framework Directives which countries then have an agreed amount of time to transcribe into national legislation. We have a better record than most in doing this and we also have a tendency to somewhat gold plate the legislation making it more restrictive and intrusive than other countries find necessary.
What I expect to happen now is that all framework directives that we agree will have a timescale for implementation after March 2019. It will then be entirely our choice about whether to implement them or not. Some of them we will because they are sensible changes (not all EU legislation is some weird foreign plot to do us down). Some will fix mistakes in the previous legislation that we will also want to fix. And some we will need to implement just in case we end up with unfettered access to the Single Market and implementation is a condition of that.
What I think is significant is that massive areas of competence are going to revert to the UK in a relatively short period of time. Our legislators will actually have to think about the laws in a wide range of areas that they have not applied their minds to for decades. Our legislators are going to have to learn fast about a lot of new areas, get relevant Parliamentary Committees set up to review the laws in these areas and become the focus of a wide range of pressure and interest groups that currently hang around Brussels. Parliament is going to be a busier place.0 -
Already open! (Australian, in case you were wondering)TOPPING said:
Open the bottles? Did I miss anything?MaxPB said:
Just got to my parents house and my dad's got the lamb cooking!DavidL said:
Beef for us. Highland cattle from the Farmers Market. Just delicious.malcolmg said:
Hmm, Roast Pork or roast beef as well, always hard to choose. Today it is chicken though.DavidL said:
Roast lamb?malcolmg said:
GIN, vefy well indeed, weekend weather has been lovely , will spend afternoon in garden reading the paper , possibly a nice bottle of cider and then roast chicken dinner. What more can one ask for.GIN1138 said:
Morning Malc. Yes, very well thanks.malcolmg said:
Morning GIN, hope you are well.GIN1138 said:
And should the Commons or more likely the Lords try to hold things up, an election is not ruled out...CarlottaVance said:@patrickwintour May gave clarity today. Trigger Article 50 by March 2017 so UK out by 2019 and EU Repeal bill passed by then so UK has own legal framework
Have been watching mega rich playboys go round and round in circles on telly (sounds a bit like our rulers in a lot of ways doesn't it? ) and now I'm off to enjoy the sunshine.
You OK?
Now I've got to do the rest.0 -
Insulting 70 million Americans seems to be a thing today...tyson said:
People who support Trump- it says alot more than about them than anything else.Dromedary said:
Mocking people's illnesses is the opposite of the values of every decent person, whatever their politics.Paul_Bedfordshire said:
He is the absolute caricature of everything that neopuritan liberal do gooder sanctimonious politically correct types like Clintonn loathe with every fibre of their being.Dromedary said:Why do you expect introducing the bill will coincide with invoking Article 50? What's the point in invoking Article 50 and then having the Commons, or indeed the Lords, vote the bill down?
Meanwhile, Trump has now physically mocked how Clinton stumbled and collapsed on 11 September owing to pneumonia:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEmkIPfa6w8
Last year he mocked a reporter's arthrogryposis:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqtoUFW5svQ
He has also insulted those who suffer from super obesity, saying that the hacking into the DNC's computer, rather than being the work of Russian intelligence, might have been done by someone who weighs 400 pounds:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfVce4rELAY
Does anyone who isn't a gun nut headbanger have a good reason to support this guy? C'mon, Trump surrogates with any sense of what makes and doesn't make a decent human being, withdraw your backing in an organised way and call for this casino-bankrupting, tax-avoiding, embargo-breaking billionaire to resign his candidacy.
Which is why it will be so hilarious and good for democracy if he won.0 -
He is saying " I do not hate you" to one part of the US; while making it very clear that he does hate another part of the USA.Malmesbury said:
Trump is a scumbag. The reason he is winning votes is because he is saying "I do not hate you " to a large group who are quite explicitly despised by the Establishment.Dromedary said:
Mocking people's illnesses is the opposite of the values of every decent person, whatever their politics.Paul_Bedfordshire said:
He is the absolute caricature of everything that neopuritan liberal do gooder sanctimonious politically correct types like Clintonn loathe with every fibre of their being.Dromedary said:Why do you expect introducing the bill will coincide with invoking Article 50? What's the point in invoking Article 50 and then having the Commons, or indeed the Lords, vote the bill down?
Meanwhile, Trump has now physically mocked how Clinton stumbled and collapsed on 11 September owing to pneumonia:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEmkIPfa6w8
Last year he mocked a reporter's arthrogryposis:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqtoUFW5svQ
He has also insulted those who suffer from super obesity, saying that the hacking into the DNC's computer, rather than being the work of Russian intelligence, might have been done by someone who weighs 400 pounds:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfVce4rELAY
Does anyone who isn't a gun nut headbanger have a good reason to support this guy? C'mon, Trump surrogates with any sense of what makes and doesn't make a decent human being, withdraw your backing in an organised way and call for this casino-bankrupting, tax-avoiding, embargo-breaking billionaire to resign his candidacy.
Which is why it will be so hilarious and good for democracy if he won.
Trump will, hopefully, fail. Sadly, nothing will change until a worse choice comes along - by that I mean an electable Trump. Imagine Huey Long resurrected....
Trumpism is not an ideology, it is very much what the Republicans have done for years, though usually more politely. They have co-opted the interests of blue collar white America on a variety of social issues, so as to push through tax cuts on the very rich. The tax cuts happen but the social issues remain always in the future. Just enough to keep the votes coming in.
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It's not online yet that I can see, but the opening "Debate" sketch from SNL is absolutely hilarious. Alec Baldwin and Kate McKinnon, saying things you need to check if the candidates actually would have said!0
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A cabbage is for life and not just to assist digestion you mean...?tyson said:There are plenty of nice dishes to eat without murdering something.
EtA:
Coming soon, to a political-betting pixileted screen: "Revenge of the whine: 'Grapes of Wrath'". A story about how living fruits combat hypocritical humanist in Tuscany.*
* Low-budget, Italian movie. Score: Extremely pretentious.0 -
We also are likely to need considerably more civil servants as all sorts of issues become the perogative of whitehall again.not_on_fire said:
In which case, reducing the number of legislators by 10% seems particularly ill timed.DavidL said:Most legislation from the EU comes in the form of Framework Directives which countries then have an agreed amount of time to transcribe into national legislation. We have a better record than most in doing this and we also have a tendency to somewhat gold plate the legislation making it more restrictive and intrusive than other countries find necessary.
What I expect to happen now is that all framework directives that we agree will have a timescale for implementation after March 2019. It will then be entirely our choice about whether to implement them or not. Some of them we will because they are sensible changes (not all EU legislation is some weird foreign plot to do us down). Some will fix mistakes in the previous legislation that we will also want to fix. And some we will need to implement just in case we end up with unfettered access to the Single Market and implementation is a condition of that.
What I think is significant is that massive areas of competence are going to revert to the UK in a relatively short period of time. Our legislators will actually have to think about the laws in a wide range of areas that they have not applied their minds to for decades. Our legislators are going to have to learn fast about a lot of new areas, get relevant Parliamentary Committees set up to review the laws in these areas and become the focus of a wide range of pressure and interest groups that currently hang around Brussels. Parliament is going to be a busier place.0 -
Mr L, this totally O/T, but, in view of previous discussions, can I refer you to https://www.theguardian.com/books/2016/sep/30/making-of-british-landscape-nicholas-crane-review; a review of The Making of the British Landscape by Nicholas Crane review – how the sun shaped the landHurstLlama said:
You are absolutely correct, Mr. Cole. One major drawback I cannot cook roast beef. I just cannot get it right. I tried for years before I eventually gave up and now we only have it when we dine at a decent quality restaurant (most pub chefs are no better than I am).OldKingCole said:
Nothing like well-cooked roast beef with, of course, Yorkshire pudding.DavidL said:
Beef for us. Highland cattle from the Farmers Market. Just delicious.malcolmg said:
Hmm, Roast Pork or roast beef as well, always hard to choose. Today it is chicken though.DavidL said:
Roast lamb?malcolmg said:
GIN, vefy well indeed, weekend weather has been lovely , will spend afternoon in garden reading the paper , possibly a nice bottle of cider and then roast chicken dinner. What more can one ask for.GIN1138 said:
Morning Malc. Yes, very well thanks.malcolmg said:
Morning GIN, hope you are well.GIN1138 said:
And should the Commons or more likely the Lords try to hold things up, an election is not ruled out...CarlottaVance said:@patrickwintour May gave clarity today. Trigger Article 50 by March 2017 so UK out by 2019 and EU Repeal bill passed by then so UK has own legal framework
Have been watching mega rich playboys go round and round in circles on telly (sounds a bit like our rulers in a lot of ways doesn't it? ) and now I'm off to enjoy the sunshine.
You OK?
However, I have a life-long love of Yorkshire pudding (as a child we used to have the remains of it cold on Monday smeared with Jam). A taste which my son has inherited so when he is home I usually serve Yorkshires with the roast lamb. A heresy but what can you do?
Today we are once again going to sit down to a curry lunch. I can't be bothered to do a roast for just the two of us (not so much the cooking but the bloody washing up) and we both love curry at lunch time. Recipes from the South-Indian Housewives Cookbook, delicious.
The book apparently considers the influence on the countryside and cities of climate, geology and a long history of immigration.
I’m putting in for a copy.0 -
What particularly irks me is the rights disingenuous plague on both your houses routine. Trump is a terrible, deeply flawed psychopath. Clinton might be many things, but she is at least sane and moderate and represents little threat. There is no equivalence between the two.rottenborough said:
The man is clearly unfit to be President. Don't forget the Americans are elected someone who is effectively their head of state. Do they really want this guy operating on the world stage?tyson said:
People who support Trump- it says alot more than about them than anything else.Dromedary said:
Mocking people's illnesses is the opposite of the values of every decent person, whatever their politics.Paul_Bedfordshire said:
He is the absolute caricature of everything that neopuritan liberal do gooder sanctimonious politically correct types like Clintonn loathe with every fibre of their being.Dromedary said:Why do you expect introducing the bill will coincide with invoking Article 50? What's the point in invoking Article 50 and then having the Commons, or indeed the Lords, vote the bill down?
Meanwhile, Trump has now physically mocked how Clinton stumbled and collapsed on 11 September owing to pneumonia:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEmkIPfa6w8
Last year he mocked a reporter's arthrogryposis:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqtoUFW5svQ
He has also insulted those who suffer from super obesity, saying that the hacking into the DNC's computer, rather than being the work of Russian intelligence, might have been done by someone who weighs 400 pounds:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfVce4rELAY
Does anyone who isn't a gun nut headbanger have a good reason to support this guy? C'mon, Trump surrogates with any sense of what makes and doesn't make a decent human being, withdraw your backing in an organised way and call for this casino-bankrupting, tax-avoiding, embargo-breaking billionaire to resign his candidacy.
Which is why it will be so hilarious and good for democracy if he won.
How long before he starts making jokes about the way Ban Ki-Moon uses english or he is goose stepping around Berlin as he meets Merkel. Tell me this disaster is not going to happen.
Just because the right (and many posters here do not like Clinton, primarily because she is a Democrat) doesn't make her the same as Trump. They know that. The Republicans should have elected a sensible candidate to fight a sensible election. Trump just creates a stupid freakshow.0 -
We are allIndigo said:
Insulting 70 million Americans seems to be a thing today...tyson said:
People who support Trump- it says alot more than about them than anything else.Dromedary said:
Mocking people's illnesses is the opposite of the values of every decent person, whatever their politics.Paul_Bedfordshire said:
He is the absolute caricature of everything that neopuritan liberal do gooder sanctimonious politically correct types like Clintonn loathe with every fibre of their being.Dromedary said:Why do you expect introducing the bill will coincide with invoking Article 50? What's the point in invoking Article 50 and then having the Commons, or indeed the Lords, vote the bill down?
Meanwhile, Trump has now physically mocked how Clinton stumbled and collapsed on 11 September owing to pneumonia:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEmkIPfa6w8
Last year he mocked a reporter's arthrogryposis:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqtoUFW5svQ
He has also insulted those who suffer from super obesity, saying that the hacking into the DNC's computer, rather than being the work of Russian intelligence, might have been done by someone who weighs 400 pounds:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfVce4rELAY
Does anyone who isn't a gun nut headbanger have a good reason to support this guy? C'mon, Trump surrogates with any sense of what makes and doesn't make a decent human being, withdraw your backing in an organised way and call for this casino-bankrupting, tax-avoiding, embargo-breaking billionaire to resign his candidacy.
Which is why it will be so hilarious and good for democracy if he won.ToriesDeplorables these days...0 -
One of the benefits of the boundary review is that many of the Remainer MPs have to keep a little eye on the likely way that the boundaries go and their support within their local Executive under new boundaries. Causing too much trouble for Mrs May could cause local deselections. Osborne himself may have to find a new association and the word I hear is that his current association is full of LEAVErs. Where they go in the new boundaries is the question. Can for example Ken Clarke guarantee a home for Soubry?OldKingCole said:
One of the saving graces of the Leave vote was the political demise of Osborne. Front bench-wise anyway! Now, if we could only persuade Martin Bell to stand for Tatton again.........glw said:
I'd be amazed if the public believed it. The best thing Osborne can do is leave parliament.FrankBooth said:I think the reinvention of George Osborne from scheming Machiavellian to principled backbencher will be more fascinating than bruiser Balls turned prime time dancer. I'd guess the public will be less likely to buy it though.
0 -
I thought Brexit was all about Parliament Taking Back Control.Indigo said:
Showing her "contempt for parliament" by using powers she and preceding governments have had since time immemorial ? Its another case of if you don't like the system then campaign and vote to change it, at the moment we are a constitutional monarchy, and the executive as a result exercises the reserve powers of the sovereign, including inter alia, the power to make and abrogate treaties.Dromedary said:
That's if there is a reform Act. If Parliament is to decide on whether or not to repeal the earlier Act, in other words on whether or not Britain should leave the EU, then the government should not be allowed to trigger Article 50 unless Parliament passes the reform bill. Hopefully the Supreme Court will agree. But even if May shows her contempt for Parliament by sending a letter first and then hearing afterwards what Parliament thinks, surely it is within the SC's authority to rule later that sending the letter was unlawful.CarlottaVance said:
He also tweets: If I were dead set on Leaving, this is exactly what I would do.Gadfly said:Jo Maugham QC appeared to be having a rethink last night. The Sunday Times have reported that the Act will postdate triggering A50. which apparently suggests that the challenge will still happen.
And:
Here's the Manifesto commitment to "respect the outcome". Under Salisbury convention, would a Repeal Act still need HL approval?
His 'rethink' is:
Reading the (far better) Sunday Times report it looks like the challenge will still happen because the Act will postdate triggering A50.0 -
Campaign on returning power to Parliament.
Make announcement on major constitutional change to Media not parliament.
Cheerleaders explain that the people have spoken and constitutional propriety is irrelevant.
Revel in hypocrisy.
0 -
This shows the worst side of Conservative leavers, and why they could cause unnecessary damage to the Conservative party.TCPoliticalBetting said:
One of the benefits of the boundary review is that many of the Remainer MPs have to keep a little eye on the likely way that the boundaries go and their support within their local Executive under new boundaries. Causing too much trouble for Mrs May could cause local deselections. Osborne himself may have to find a new association and the word I hear is that his current association is full of LEAVErs. Where they go in the new boundaries is the question. Can for example Ken Clarke guarantee a home for Soubry?OldKingCole said:
One of the saving graces of the Leave vote was the political demise of Osborne. Front bench-wise anyway! Now, if we could only persuade Martin Bell to stand for Tatton again.........glw said:
I'd be amazed if the public believed it. The best thing Osborne can do is leave parliament.FrankBooth said:I think the reinvention of George Osborne from scheming Machiavellian to principled backbencher will be more fascinating than bruiser Balls turned prime time dancer. I'd guess the public will be less likely to buy it though.
Leave won. It seems that leavers are having more difficulty coping with this fact than remainers.0 -
I'm becoming sceptical of the stuff on 'hard Brexit'. The Great Repeal Act is a terrific headline and is the preverbial red meat. Behind it will come EEA membership for a unspecified transitional period during which the aim will be to negotiate a comprehensive FTA. There is no way that TM is going to risk driving the economy over a cliff with a hasty decision. She will want to take her time. I don't see how we can avoid leaving the Customs Union though - otherwise Liam Fox wouldn't have a job!0
-
Mr. Matt, policies and so forth are often announced at party conferences.
This is no different.0 -
<
Clinton moderate?tyson said:
What particularly irks me is the rights disingenuous plague on both your houses routine. Trump is a terrible, deeply flawed psychopath. Clinton might be many things, but she is at least sane and moderate and represents little threat. There is no equivalence between the two.rottenborough said:
The man is clearly unfit to be President. Don't forget the Americans are elected someone who is effectively their head of state. Do they really want this guy operating on the world stage?tyson said:
People who support Trump- it says alot more than about them than anything else.Dromedary said:
Mocking people's illnesses is the opposite of the values of every decent person, whatever their politics.Paul_Bedfordshire said:
He is the absolute caricature of everything that neopuritan liberal do gooder sanctimonious politically correct types like Clintonn loathe with every fibre of their being.Dromedary said:Why do you expect introducing the bill will coincide with invoking Article 50? What's the point in invoking Article 50 and then having the Commons, or indeed the Lords, vote the bill down?
Meanwhile, Trump has now physically mocked how Clinton stumbled and collapsed on 11 September owing to pneumonia:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEmkIPfa6w8
Last year he mocked a reporter's arthrogryposis:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqtoUFW5svQ
He has also insulted those who suffer from super obesity, saying that the hacking into the DNC's computer, rather than being the work of Russian intelligence, might have been done by someone who weighs 400 pounds:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfVce4rELAY
Does anyone who isn't a gun nut headbanger have a good reason to support this guy? C'mon, Trump surrogates with any sense of what makes and doesn't make a decent human being, withdraw your backing in an organised way and call for this casino-bankrupting, tax-avoiding, embargo-breaking billionaire to resign his candidacy.
Which is why it will be so hilarious and good for democracy if he won.
How long before he starts making jokes about the way Ban Ki-Moon uses english or he is goose stepping around Berlin as he meets Merkel. Tell me this disaster is not going to happen.
Just because the right (and many posters here do not like Clinton, primarily because she is a Democrat) doesn't make her the same as Trump. They know that. The Republicans should have elected a sensible candidate to fight a sensible election. Trump just creates a stupid freakshow.
Come off it she is a far left Gramascian cultural marxist who would fit in well in Hampstead.0 -
The key to roasting beef is to do a big joint, and cook it slowly using a meat thermometer, then rest it well at the end. Pork and Lamb are both fattier so tenderize more quickly. Most flavour compounds are aromatic hydrocarbons so are fat soluble, which is why fat tastes so good! It is why rib-eye or sirloin cooks much better than rump or silverside.HurstLlama said:
You are absolutely correct, Mr. Cole. One major drawback I cannot cook roast beef. I just cannot get it right. I tried for years before I eventually gave up and now we only have it when we dine at a decent quality restaurant (most pub chefs are no better than I am).OldKingCole said:
Nothing like well-cooked roast beef with, of course, Yorkshire pudding.DavidL said:
Beef for us. Highland cattle from the Farmers Market. Just delicious.malcolmg said:
Hmm, Roast Pork or roast beef as well, always hard to choose. Today it is chicken though.DavidL said:
Roast lamb?malcolmg said:
GIN, vefy well indeed, weekend weather has been lovely , will spend afternoon in garden reading the paper , possibly a nice bottle of cider and then roast chicken dinner. What more can one ask for.GIN1138 said:
Morning Malc. Yes, very well thanks.malcolmg said:
Morning GIN, hope you are well.GIN1138 said:
And should the Commons or more likely the Lords try to hold things up, an election is not ruled out...CarlottaVance said:@patrickwintour May gave clarity today. Trigger Article 50 by March 2017 so UK out by 2019 and EU Repeal bill passed by then so UK has own legal framework
Have been watching mega rich playboys go round and round in circles on telly (sounds a bit like our rulers in a lot of ways doesn't it? ) and now I'm off to enjoy the sunshine.
You OK?
However, I have a life-long love of Yorkshire pudding (as a child we used to have the remains of it cold on Monday smeared with Jam). A taste which my son has inherited so when he is home I usually serve Yorkshires with the roast lamb. A heresy but what can you do?
Today we are once again going to sit down to a curry lunch. I can't be bothered to do a roast for just the two of us (not so much the cooking but the bloody washing up) and we both love curry at lunch time. Recipes from the South-Indian Housewives Cookbook, delicious.
If cooking a small roast beef for just two, as I do with Mrs Vixen, then I would suggest doing it in either a slow cooker or as a potroast in a casserole dish.
Now for great Yorkies...
0 -
It was. Parliament has control. If it wanted a say over that issue it could have passed a law assuming control of that prerogative at any time, it didn't. It could have amended the enabling legislation for the referendum to give them that say if they wanted, it didn't.not_on_fire said:
I thought Brexit was all about Parliament Taking Back Control.Indigo said:
Showing her "contempt for parliament" by using powers she and preceding governments have had since time immemorial ? Its another case of if you don't like the system then campaign and vote to change it, at the moment we are a constitutional monarchy, and the executive as a result exercises the reserve powers of the sovereign, including inter alia, the power to make and abrogate treaties.Dromedary said:
That's if there is a reform Act. If Parliament is to decide on whether or not to repeal the earlier Act, in other words on whether or not Britain should leave the EU, then the government should not be allowed to trigger Article 50 unless Parliament passes the reform bill. Hopefully the Supreme Court will agree. But even if May shows her contempt for Parliament by sending a letter first and then hearing afterwards what Parliament thinks, surely it is within the SC's authority to rule later that sending the letter was unlawful.CarlottaVance said:
He also tweets: If I were dead set on Leaving, this is exactly what I would do.Gadfly said:Jo Maugham QC appeared to be having a rethink last night. The Sunday Times have reported that the Act will postdate triggering A50. which apparently suggests that the challenge will still happen.
And:
Here's the Manifesto commitment to "respect the outcome". Under Salisbury convention, would a Repeal Act still need HL approval?
His 'rethink' is:
Reading the (far better) Sunday Times report it looks like the challenge will still happen because the Act will postdate triggering A50.0 -
LOL, get those lentils boiling while you polish your sandalstyson said:
There are plenty of nice dishes to eat without murdering something.malcolmg said:
Hmm, Roast Pork or roast beef as well, always hard to choose. Today it is chicken though.DavidL said:
Roast lamb?malcolmg said:
GIN, vefy well indeed, weekend weather has been lovely , will spend afternoon in garden reading the paper , possibly a nice bottle of cider and then roast chicken dinner. What more can one ask for.GIN1138 said:
Morning Malc. Yes, very well thanks.malcolmg said:
Morning GIN, hope you are well.GIN1138 said:
And should the Commons or more likely the Lords try to hold things up, an election is not ruled out...CarlottaVance said:@patrickwintour May gave clarity today. Trigger Article 50 by March 2017 so UK out by 2019 and EU Repeal bill passed by then so UK has own legal framework
Have been watching mega rich playboys go round and round in circles on telly (sounds a bit like our rulers in a lot of ways doesn't it? ) and now I'm off to enjoy the sunshine.
You OK?0 -
Clinton? You've gotta be kidding. The Clintons. Democratic Leadership Council.
0 -
Is it my imagination, or is there a whole new wave of bitterness arriving at the shores of these esteemed forums today along with a slightly revisionist approach to recent history ?0
-
Will Hutton notes in Today's Observer that the amount the Government will have to compensate Nissan for a WTO tariff level of 10% under hard Brexit is £350m a year.PeterC said:I'm becoming sceptical of the stuff on 'hard Brexit'. The Great Repeal Act is a terrific headline and is the preverbial red meat. Behind it will come EEA membership for a unspecified transitional period during which the aim will be to negotiate a comprehensive FTA. There is no way that TM is going to risk driving the economy over a cliff with a hasty decision. She will want to take her time. I don't see how we can avoid leaving the Customs Union though - otherwise Liam Fox wouldn't have a job!
Bang goes the NHS money then, Leavers.0 -
LOL.Paul_Bedfordshire said:Clinton moderate?
Come off it she is a far left Gramascian cultural marxist who would fit in well in Hampstead.
No, she isn't.0 -
Dunno about that, I've seen her described as hard left on PB.tyson said:
What particularly irks me is the rights disingenuous plague on both your houses routine. Trump is a terrible, deeply flawed psychopath. Clinton might be many things, but she is at least sane and moderate and represents little threat. There is no equivalence between the two.
Just because the right (and many posters here do not like Clinton, primarily because she is a Democrat) doesn't make her the same as Trump. They know that. The Republicans should have elected a sensible candidate to fight a sensible election. Trump just creates a stupid freakshow.
Of course this is all part of the 'new centre ground' guff (eg Tessy's Tories) wherein the hard right can redefine themselves as jolly sensible chaps with common sense views.0 -
I think not, Dr. Sox. In my experience civil servants, particularly at the open level actually spend no more than three hours a day in productive useful work. Much of the rest of the time is spent reading copies of each other's emails very few of which are actually related to their function and meetings which have no substantive purpose, but generate a lot of paper/emails that must be read and replied to.foxinsoxuk said:
We also are likely to need considerably more civil servants as all sorts of issues become the perogative of whitehall again.not_on_fire said:
In which case, reducing the number of legislators by 10% seems particularly ill timed.DavidL said:Most legislation from the EU comes in the form of Framework Directives which countries then have an agreed amount of time to transcribe into national legislation. We have a better record than most in doing this and we also have a tendency to somewhat gold plate the legislation making it more restrictive and intrusive than other countries find necessary.
What I expect to happen now is that all framework directives that we agree will have a timescale for implementation after March 2019. It will then be entirely our choice about whether to implement them or not. Some of them we will because they are sensible changes (not all EU legislation is some weird foreign plot to do us down). Some will fix mistakes in the previous legislation that we will also want to fix. And some we will need to implement just in case we end up with unfettered access to the Single Market and implementation is a condition of that.
What I think is significant is that massive areas of competence are going to revert to the UK in a relatively short period of time. Our legislators will actually have to think about the laws in a wide range of areas that they have not applied their minds to for decades. Our legislators are going to have to learn fast about a lot of new areas, get relevant Parliamentary Committees set up to review the laws in these areas and become the focus of a wide range of pressure and interest groups that currently hang around Brussels. Parliament is going to be a busier place.
Rather than increase numbers, just get the existing lot to concentrate would be far more productive.0 -
You are having a laugh. We go around the same bitter arguments and remoaner crying on the subject almost every day, it wont be long before someone mentions £350m a year.JosiasJessop said:Leave won. It seems that leavers are having more difficulty coping with this fact than remainers.
Edit: An as if on cue, Rottenborough obliges me
0 -
Can we be in the EEA if we leave the customs union ?PeterC said:I'm becoming sceptical of the stuff on 'hard Brexit'. The Great Repeal Act is a terrific headline and is the preverbial red meat. Behind it will come EEA membership for a unspecified transitional period during which the aim will be to negotiate a comprehensive FTA. There is no way that TM is going to risk driving the economy over a cliff with a hasty decision. She will want to take her time. I don't see how we can avoid leaving the Customs Union though - otherwise Liam Fox wouldn't have a job!
0 -
No, it's not your imagination. But it's not just today: leavers have been bitter since the very night of the referendum. The new wave is just a small swell in comparison.Indigo said:Is it my imagination, or is there a whole new wave of bitterness arriving at the shores of these esteemed forums today along with a slightly revisionist approach to recent history ?
They cannot handle victory. 0 -
Must be off, but Mr. Borough, the pound has fallen more than that against the euro, has it not?
Also, importantly, Will Hutton is a frequently wrong.0 -
To be fair the fall in the pound compensates for tariffs. But the murk of administrative chaos which may arise from a clean break is horrifying.rottenborough said:
Will Hutton notes in Today's Observer that the amount the Government will have to compensate Nissan for a WTO tariff level of 10% under hard Brexit is £350m a year.PeterC said:I'm becoming sceptical of the stuff on 'hard Brexit'. The Great Repeal Act is a terrific headline and is the preverbial red meat. Behind it will come EEA membership for a unspecified transitional period during which the aim will be to negotiate a comprehensive FTA. There is no way that TM is going to risk driving the economy over a cliff with a hasty decision. She will want to take her time. I don't see how we can avoid leaving the Customs Union though - otherwise Liam Fox wouldn't have a job!
Bang goes the NHS money then, Leavers.0 -
Mr. Cole, I thank you for your recommendation, Herself will curse you. I shall order my copy this afternoon.OldKingCole said:
Mr L, this totally O/T, but, in view of previous discussions, can I refer you to https://www.theguardian.com/books/2016/sep/30/making-of-british-landscape-nicholas-crane-review; a review of The Making of the British Landscape by Nicholas Crane review – how the sun shaped the landHurstLlama said:
You are absolutely correct, Mr. Cole. One major drawback I cannot cook roast beef. I just cannot get it right. I tried for years before I eventually gave up and now we only have it when we dine at a decent quality restaurant (most pub chefs are no better than I am).OldKingCole said:
Nothing like well-cooked roast beef with, of course, Yorkshire pudding.DavidL said:
Beef for us. Highland cattle from the Farmers Market. Just delicious.malcolmg said:
Hmm, Roast Pork or roast beef as well, always hard to choose. Today it is chicken though.DavidL said:
Roast lamb?malcolmg said:
GIN, vefy well indeed, weekend weather has been lovely , will spend afternoon in garden reading the paper , possibly a nice bottle of cider and then roast chicken dinner. What more can one ask for.GIN1138 said:
Morning Malc. Yes, very well thanks.malcolmg said:
Morning GIN, hope you are well.GIN1138 said:
And should the Commons or more likely the Lords try to hold things up, an election is not ruled out...CarlottaVance said:@patrickwintour May gave clarity today. Trigger Article 50 by March 2017 so UK out by 2019 and EU Repeal bill passed by then so UK has own legal framework
Have been watching mega rich playboys go round and round in circles on telly (sounds a bit like our rulers in a lot of ways doesn't it? ) and now I'm off to enjoy the sunshine.
You OK?
However, I have a life-long love of Yorkshire pudding (as a child we used to have the remains of it cold on Monday smeared with Jam). A taste which my son has inherited so when he is home I usually serve Yorkshires with the roast lamb. A heresy but what can you do?
Today we are once again going to sit down to a curry lunch. I can't be bothered to do a roast for just the two of us (not so much the cooking but the bloody washing up) and we both love curry at lunch time. Recipes from the South-Indian Housewives Cookbook, delicious.
The book apparently considers the influence on the countryside and cities of climate, geology and a long history of immigration.
I’m putting in for a copy.0 -
Of course.Indigo said:
Can we be in the EEA if we leave the customs union ?PeterC said:I'm becoming sceptical of the stuff on 'hard Brexit'. The Great Repeal Act is a terrific headline and is the preverbial red meat. Behind it will come EEA membership for a unspecified transitional period during which the aim will be to negotiate a comprehensive FTA. There is no way that TM is going to risk driving the economy over a cliff with a hasty decision. She will want to take her time. I don't see how we can avoid leaving the Customs Union though - otherwise Liam Fox wouldn't have a job!
0 -
If you want the EU regulations to stay undisturbed on the Statute book for all time then the existing civil service should be fine.HurstLlama said:
I think not, Dr. Sox. In my experience civil servants, particularly at the open level actually spend no more than three hours a day in productive useful work. Much of the rest of the time is spent reading copies of each other's emails very few of which are actually related to their function and meetings which have no substantive purpose, but generate a lot of paper/emails that must be read and replied to.foxinsoxuk said:
We also are likely to need considerably more civil servants as all sorts of issues become the perogative of whitehall again.not_on_fire said:
In which case, reducing the number of legislators by 10% seems particularly ill timed.DavidL said:Most legislation from the EU comes in the form of Framework Directives which countries then have an agreed amount of time to transcribe into national legislation. We have a better record than most in doing this and we also have a tendency to somewhat gold plate the legislation making it more restrictive and intrusive than other countries find necessary.
What I expect to happen now is that all framework directives that we agree will have a timescale for implementation after March 2019. It will then be entirely our choice about whether to implement them or not. Some of them we will because they are sensible changes (not all EU legislation is some weird foreign plot to do us down). Some will fix mistakes in the previous legislation that we will also want to fix. And some we will need to implement just in case we end up with unfettered access to the Single Market and implementation is a condition of that.
What I think is significant is that massive areas of competence are going to revert to the UK in a relatively short period of time. Our legislators will actually have to think about the laws in a wide range of areas that they have not applied their minds to for decades. Our legislators are going to have to learn fast about a lot of new areas, get relevant Parliamentary Committees set up to review the laws in these areas and become the focus of a wide range of pressure and interest groups that currently hang around Brussels. Parliament is going to be a busier place.
Rather than increase numbers, just get the existing lot to concentrate would be far more productive.
What was the point of Brexit again?0 -
No, I'm not having a laugh. The fact you use 'remoaner' shows my point very well.Indigo said:
You are having a laugh. We go around the same bitter arguments and remoaner crying on the subject almost every day, it wont be long before someone mentions £350m a year.JosiasJessop said:Leave won. It seems that leavers are having more difficulty coping with this fact than remainers.
Edit: An as if on cue, Rottenborough obliges me
If this is how *some* leavers act in victory, goodness knows how they'd have reacted in defeat.
As for the Conservatives, it is time for them to pull together and put divides behind them. IDS was accepted within the party, even after he helped Blair to victory in 1997. The talk of staunch remainers being deselected therefore rings hollow, especially as the likes of IDS and Cash remained within for years.
The Conservatives have always succeeded most when a broad church. I said such before the referendum, and see no reason to change the view now.0 -
It was very true of offices in the 1970s and first half of the 1980s an era when there was little difference between public and pricvate offices IMHO. and that was before email. The numbers generated their own need for support etc. My ratio was that if we could cut 4 jobs in an office then at least 2 others would go eventually. Initially I worked on a 6:1 ratio but later 2:1 became the norm. A department that was 140 in 1980 dropped to 35 by 1985 and yet was handling more work (purchasing and contracts). Word processing on desks made a stunning improvement. This was at a time of growth by the international services company.HurstLlama said:
I think not, Dr. Sox. In my experience civil servants, particularly at the open level actually spend no more than three hours a day in productive useful work. Much of the rest of the time is spent reading copies of each other's emails very few of which are actually related to their function and meetings which have no substantive purpose, but generate a lot of paper/emails that must be read and replied to.foxinsoxuk said:
We also are likely to need considerably more civil servants as all sorts of issues become the perogative of whitehall again.not_on_fire said:
In which case, reducing the number of legislators by 10% seems particularly ill timed.DavidL said:Most legislation from the EU comes in the form of Framework Directives which countries then have an agreed amount of time to transcribe into national legislation. We have a better record than most in doing this and we also have a tendency to somewhat gold plate the legislation making it more restrictive and intrusive than other countries find necessary.
What I expect to happen now is that all framework directives that we agree will have a timescale for implementation after ....
What I think is significant is that massive areas of competence are going to revert to the UK in a relatively short period of time. Our legislators will actually have to think about the laws in a wide range of areas that they have not applied their minds to for decades. Our legislators are going to have to learn fast about a lot of new areas, get relevant Parliamentary Committees set up to review the laws in these areas and become the focus of a wide range of pressure and interest groups that currently hang around Brussels. Parliament is going to be a busier place.
Rather than increase numbers, just get the existing lot to concentrate would be far more productive.
0 -
The weather for the second of October in Scotland is scandalously good.malcolmg said:
GIN, vefy well indeed, weekend weather has been lovely , will spend afternoon in garden reading the paper , possibly a nice bottle of cider and then roast chicken dinner. What more can one ask for.GIN1138 said:
Morning Malc. Yes, very well thanks.malcolmg said:
Morning GIN, hope you are well.GIN1138 said:
And should the Commons or more likely the Lords try to hold things up, an election is not ruled out...CarlottaVance said:@patrickwintour May gave clarity today. Trigger Article 50 by March 2017 so UK out by 2019 and EU Repeal bill passed by then so UK has own legal framework
Have been watching mega rich playboys go round and round in circles on telly (sounds a bit like our rulers in a lot of ways doesn't it? ) and now I'm off to enjoy the sunshine.
You OK?0 -
None - until the Civil Service is given over to a consultancy privately owned by Rupert Murdoch and Donald Trump.foxinsoxuk said:
If you want the EU regulations to stay undisturbed on the Statute book for all time then the existing civil service should be fine.HurstLlama said:
I think not, Dr. Sox. In my experience civil servants, particularly at the open level actually spend no more than three hours a day in productive useful work. Much of the rest of the time is spent reading copies of each other's emails very few of which are actually related to their function and meetings which have no substantive purpose, but generate a lot of paper/emails that must be read and replied to.foxinsoxuk said:
We also are likely to need considerably more civil servants as all sorts of issues become the perogative of whitehall again.not_on_fire said:
In which case, reducing the number of legislators by 10% seems particularly ill timed.DavidL said:Most legislation from the EU comes in the form of Framework Directives which countries then have an agreed amount of time to transcribe into national legislation. We have a better record than most in doing this and we also have a tendency to somewhat gold plate the legislation making it more restrictive and intrusive than other countries find necessary.
What I expect to happen now is that all framework directives that we agree will have a timescale for implementation after March 2019. It will then be entirely our choice about whether to implement them or not. Some of them we will because they are sensible changes (not all EU legislation is some weird foreign plot to do us down). Some will fix mistakes in the previous legislation that we will also want to fix. And some we will need to implement just in case we end up with unfettered access to the Single Market and implementation is a condition of that.
What I think is significant is that massive areas of competence are going to revert to the UK in a relatively short period of time. Our legislators will actually have to think about the laws in a wide range of areas that they have not applied their minds to for decades. Our legislators are going to have to learn fast about a lot of new areas, get relevant Parliamentary Committees set up to review the laws in these areas and become the focus of a wide range of pressure and interest groups that currently hang around Brussels. Parliament is going to be a busier place.
Rather than increase numbers, just get the existing lot to concentrate would be far more productive.
What was the point of Brexit again?
There - said it for you!
0 -
Q: Does the EU sell us £billions more in cars than we sell them?rottenborough said:
Will Hutton notes in Today's Observer that the amount the Government will have to compensate Nissan for a WTO tariff level of 10% under hard Brexit is £350m a year.PeterC said:I'm becoming sceptical of the stuff on 'hard Brexit'. The Great Repeal Act is a terrific headline and is the preverbial red meat. Behind it will come EEA membership for a unspecified transitional period during which the aim will be to negotiate a comprehensive FTA. There is no way that TM is going to risk driving the economy over a cliff with a hasty decision. She will want to take her time. I don't see how we can avoid leaving the Customs Union though - otherwise Liam Fox wouldn't have a job!
Bang goes the NHS money then, Leavers.
A: Yes.
So why do you write such nonsense about finding money for Nissan if the Govt decided to?0 -
Happy to be of service !!Indigo said:
You are having a laugh. We go around the same bitter arguments and remoaner crying on the subject almost every day, it wont be long before someone mentions £350m a year.JosiasJessop said:Leave won. It seems that leavers are having more difficulty coping with this fact than remainers.
Edit: An as if on cue, Rottenborough obliges me0 -
As an average perhaps. My experience of dealing with the Inland Revenue suggest that out of 10 individuals, 2 are the people you want to deal with, 3 are harmless, 3 do no work at all. The last 2 generate problems and mistakes - quite industriously, it has to be said.HurstLlama said:
I think not, Dr. Sox. In my experience civil servants, particularly at the open level actually spend no more than three hours a day in productive useful work. Much of the rest of the time is spent reading copies of each other's emails very few of which are actually related to their function and meetings which have no substantive purpose, but generate a lot of paper/emails that must be read and replied to.foxinsoxuk said:
We also are likely to need considerably more civil servants as all sorts of issues become the perogative of whitehall again.not_on_fire said:
In which case, reducing the number of legislators by 10% seems particularly ill timed.DavidL said:Most legislation from the EU comes in the form of Framework Directives which countries then have an agreed amount of time to transcribe into national legislation. We have a better record than most in doing this and we also have a tendency to somewhat gold plate the legislation making it more restrictive and intrusive than other countries find necessary.
What I expect to happen now is that all framework directives that we agree will have a timescale for implementation after March 2019. It will then be entirely our choice about whether to implement them or not. Some of them we will because they are sensible changes (not all EU legislation is some weird foreign plot to do us down). Some will fix mistakes in the previous legislation that we will also want to fix. And some we will need to implement just in case we end up with unfettered access to the Single Market and implementation is a condition of that.
What I think is significant is that massive areas of competence are going to revert to the UK in a relatively short period of time. Our legislators will actually have to think about the laws in a wide range of areas that they have not applied their minds to for decades. Our legislators are going to have to learn fast about a lot of new areas, get relevant Parliamentary Committees set up to review the laws in these areas and become the focus of a wide range of pressure and interest groups that currently hang around Brussels. Parliament is going to be a busier place.
Rather than increase numbers, just get the existing lot to concentrate would be far more productive.
This ratio is comparable with a large, un-reformed (in the last 10 years, say) multinational - say CitiGroup, before 2008.0 -
You are aware that wine is generally not er... animal free?tyson said:
There are plenty of nice dishes to eat without murdering something.malcolmg said:
Hmm, Roast Pork or roast beef as well, always hard to choose. Today it is chicken though.DavidL said:
Roast lamb?malcolmg said:
GIN, vefy well indeed, weekend weather has been lovely , will spend afternoon in garden reading the paper , possibly a nice bottle of cider and then roast chicken dinner. What more can one ask for.GIN1138 said:
Morning Malc. Yes, very well thanks.malcolmg said:
Morning GIN, hope you are well.GIN1138 said:
And should the Commons or more likely the Lords try to hold things up, an election is not ruled out...CarlottaVance said:@patrickwintour May gave clarity today. Trigger Article 50 by March 2017 so UK out by 2019 and EU Repeal bill passed by then so UK has own legal framework
Have been watching mega rich playboys go round and round in circles on telly (sounds a bit like our rulers in a lot of ways doesn't it? ) and now I'm off to enjoy the sunshine.
You OK?0 -
Tariff projections raise £9bn for HMRC.rottenborough said:
Will Hutton notes in Today's Observer that the amount the Government will have to compensate Nissan for a WTO tariff level of 10% under hard Brexit is £350m a year.PeterC said:I'm becoming sceptical of the stuff on 'hard Brexit'. The Great Repeal Act is a terrific headline and is the preverbial red meat. Behind it will come EEA membership for a unspecified transitional period during which the aim will be to negotiate a comprehensive FTA. There is no way that TM is going to risk driving the economy over a cliff with a hasty decision. She will want to take her time. I don't see how we can avoid leaving the Customs Union though - otherwise Liam Fox wouldn't have a job!
Bang goes the NHS money then, Leavers.
BMW would in effect be paying Nissan compensation if it were to ever happen.
0 -
It will only happen if some Remainer MPs cause major problems to implementing the referendum result. The damage to the party is coming from people such as Soubry and nicky Morgan taking to the airwaves and attacking the Govt. There is very little attacking of the Govt coming from LEAVERs so your comment about having difficulty coping with the result applies mainly to Remainers. However you seem to be a bit blind to taking an impartial view of what is going on.JosiasJessop said:
This shows the worst side of Conservative leavers, and why they could cause unnecessary damage to the Conservative party.TCPoliticalBetting said:
One of the benefits of the boundary review is that many of the Remainer MPs have to keep a little eye on the likely way that the boundaries go and their support within their local Executive under new boundaries. Causing too much trouble for Mrs May could cause local deselections. Osborne himself may have to find a new association and the word I hear is that his current association is full of LEAVErs. Where they go in the new boundaries is the question. Can for example Ken Clarke guarantee a home for Soubry?OldKingCole said:
One of the saving graces of the Leave vote was the political demise of Osborne. Front bench-wise anyway! Now, if we could only persuade Martin Bell to stand for Tatton again.........glw said:
I'd be amazed if the public believed it. The best thing Osborne can do is leave parliament.FrankBooth said:I think the reinvention of George Osborne from scheming Machiavellian to principled backbencher will be more fascinating than bruiser Balls turned prime time dancer. I'd guess the public will be less likely to buy it though.
Leave won. It seems that leavers are having more difficulty coping with this fact than remainers.
0 -
The EU's post Brexit factional break up gathers pace:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-09-28/nordic-leaders-seek-eu-pact-over-post-brexit-power-play
Although Britain isn’t expected to formally leave the EU for years, top officials are already beginning to worry. One particular source of concern involves payments into the EU budget.
"Without the U.K. there will have to be a completely new discussion on the next long-term EU budget," Swedish Prime Minister Stefan Loefven said. "Our position is clear. If you have less income you should also have lower expenditure."0 -
Thanks for that, Doc. It is getting the texture correct with roast beef I cannot get the hang of. I want it crisp on the outside turning pink towards the middle and I cannot do it.foxinsoxuk said:
The key to roasting beef is to do a big joint, and cook it slowly using a meat thermometer, then rest it well at the end. Pork and Lamb are both fattier so tenderize more quickly. Most flavour compounds are aromatic hydrocarbons so are fat soluble, which is why fat tastes so good! It is why rib-eye or sirloin cooks much better than rump or silverside.
If cooking a small roast beef for just two, as I do with Mrs Vixen, then I would suggest doing it in either a slow cooker or as a potroast in a casserole dish.
Now for great Yorkies...
Now, how do you do Yorkshires if cooking the meat in a slow cooker? My grandmother, mother and sister all had the juices from the meat in the oven dripping onto the tray of Yorkshire mix below the joint. Unfortunately, they all died before they could teach me the secret, before in fact I knew there was a secret to be learned (one of the, many, problems of marrying late).0 -
OFCOM seems to have been busy with our taxpayers money researching the essentials. If anyone feels their vocabulary for invective needs a small update, this would seem to be the place to look.
http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/binaries/research/tv-research/Offensive-language/Offensive-Language-2016-report.pdf0 -
Clinton is virtually certain to expand the War on Abstract Words - hence the hard core dislike on the Bernie Sanders left.tyson said:
What particularly irks me is the rights disingenuous plague on both your houses routine. Trump is a terrible, deeply flawed psychopath. Clinton might be many things, but she is at least sane and moderate and represents little threat. There is no equivalence between the two.rottenborough said:
The man is clearly unfit to be President. Don't forget the Americans are elected someone who is effectively their head of state. Do they really want this guy operating on the world stage?tyson said:
People who support Trump- it says alot more than about them than anything else.Dromedary said:
Mocking people's illnesses is the opposite of the values of every decent person, whatever their politics.Paul_Bedfordshire said:
He is the absolute caricature of everything that neopuritan liberal do gooder sanctimonious politically correct types like Clintonn loathe with every fibre of their being.Dromedary said:Why do you expect introducing the bill will coincide with invoking Article 50? What's the point in invoking Article 50 and then having the Commons, or indeed the Lords, vote the bill down?
Meanwhile, Trump has now physically mocked how Clinton stumbled and collapsed on 11 September owing to pneumonia:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEmkIPfa6w8
Last year he mocked a reporter's arthrogryposis:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqtoUFW5svQ
:
:
Which is why it will be so hilarious and good for democracy if he won.
How long before he starts making jokes about the way Ban Ki-Moon uses english or he is goose stepping around Berlin as he meets Merkel. Tell me this disaster is not going to happen.
Just because the right (and many posters here do not like Clinton, primarily because she is a Democrat) doesn't make her the same as Trump. They know that. The Republicans should have elected a sensible candidate to fight a sensible election. Trump just creates a stupid freakshow.
She is an awful, awful choice. Worse than Sarkozy... As a friend put it the other day - "Gary Johnson may not know what/where Aleppo is. But at least it is fairly improbable that he will bomb it, sell it uranium, sell it to a campaign contributor or lie about visiting it."
The same friend is voting for Clinton. With a clothes peg on his nose, as he puts it.
Personally I want to vote for Calvin Coolidge.....0 -
Sorry young master matt:matt said:Campaign on returning power to Parliament.
Make announcement on major constitutional change to Media not parliament.
Cheerleaders explain that the people have spoken and constitutional propriety is irrelevant.
Revel in hypocrisy.
Manifestos are first put to the electorate via the media. Only then does Westminster - based upon results - decide how to implement. What is your point caller?
0 -
I make the most exquisite lentil curry, rich, deep, spicy, garlicky, moorish- the well cooked lentils melt in your mouth. I get a rich depth to the sauce by adding spices, and pasting vegetables- not by using fats (apart from a little olive oil). And after you feel good, not bloated. It is completely my recipe.malcolmg said:
LOL, get those lentils boiling while you polish your sandalstyson said:
There are plenty of nice dishes to eat without murdering something.malcolmg said:
Hmm, Roast Pork or roast beef as well, always hard to choose. Today it is chicken though.DavidL said:
Roast lamb?malcolmg said:
GIN, vefy well indeed, weekend weather has been lovely , will spend afternoon in garden reading the paper , possibly a nice bottle of cider and then roast chicken dinner. What more can one ask for.GIN1138 said:
Morning Malc. Yes, very well thanks.malcolmg said:
Morning GIN, hope you are well.GIN1138 said:
And should the Commons or more likely the Lords try to hold things up, an election is not ruled out...CarlottaVance said:@patrickwintour May gave clarity today. Trigger Article 50 by March 2017 so UK out by 2019 and EU Repeal bill passed by then so UK has own legal framework
Have been watching mega rich playboys go round and round in circles on telly (sounds a bit like our rulers in a lot of ways doesn't it? ) and now I'm off to enjoy the sunshine.
You OK?
As a side, I finely chop some onions and add some red hot pepper sauce- super duper. And I garnish with a fine cut boiled egg on the top, adding a spot of olive oil, salt and pepper.
I make a superb roast dinner- and you can get the most wonderful rich gravy by finely cutting an onion, frying with some olive oil, adding some veggie stock, adding a bit of soya sauce, pepper, more than a hint of chilli, and a big splash of English mustard. You get the colour, texture and depth of flavour of any gravy in my opinion. And you can pile your plate with loads of yummy vegetables- mash potatoes, roast potatoes, a cauliflower cheese side, steamed carrot sticks, steamed green beans, fried greens, beautifully home made yorkies- and wash loads of that lovely rich gravy over it.
0 -
It's taken them a while to understand that they will all be paying more into the budget, which isn't going to shrink much if at all when Britain leaves.chestnut said:The EU's post Brexit factional break up gathers pace:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-09-28/nordic-leaders-seek-eu-pact-over-post-brexit-power-play
Although Britain isn’t expected to formally leave the EU for years, top officials are already beginning to worry. One particular source of concern involves payments into the EU budget.
"Without the U.K. there will have to be a completely new discussion on the next long-term EU budget," Swedish Prime Minister Stefan Loefven said. "Our position is clear. If you have less income you should also have lower expenditure."0 -
Wake Co NC voted absentees 39 days pre-elex:
2016 1,912
D 42.8%
R 29.6%
U 27.4%
2012 272
D 30.5%
R 44.9%
U 24.6%
up 602%, 27% swing to D
only one county, but its not looking like Trump is gaining from increased turn out in early voting....0 -
Correction: Will Hutton is usually wrong.Morris_Dancer said:Must be off, but Mr. Borough, the pound has fallen more than that against the euro, has it not?
Also, importantly, Will Hutton is a frequently wrong.0 -
The table on page 15 is a good laugh.Indigo said:OFCOM seems to have been busy with our taxpayers money researching the essentials. If anyone feels their vocabulary for invective needs a small update, this would seem to be the place to look.
http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/binaries/research/tv-research/Offensive-language/Offensive-Language-2016-report.pdf0 -
I might remind you of the damage that IDS and the 'bastards' caused the party in the mid-1990s, and how they helped Blair to a decade in power. In comparison remainer MPs seem rather restrained.TCPoliticalBetting said:
It will only happen if some Remainer MPs cause major problems to implementing the referendum result. The damage to the party is coming from people such as Soubry and nicky Morgan taking to the airwaves and attacking the Govt. There is very little attacking of the Govt coming from LEAVERs so your comment about having difficulty coping with the result applies mainly to Remainers. However you seem to be a bit blind to taking an impartial view of what is going on.JosiasJessop said:
This shows the worst side of Conservative leavers, and why they could cause unnecessary damage to the Conservative party.TCPoliticalBetting said:
One of the benefits of the boundary review is that many of the Remainer MPs have to keep a little eye on the likely way that the boundaries go and their support within their local Executive under new boundaries. Causing too much trouble for Mrs May could cause local deselections. Osborne himself may have to find a new association and the word I hear is that his current association is full of LEAVErs. Where they go in the new boundaries is the question. Can for example Ken Clarke guarantee a home for Soubry?OldKingCole said:
One of the saving graces of the Leave vote was the political demise of Osborne. Front bench-wise anyway! Now, if we could only persuade Martin Bell to stand for Tatton again.........glw said:
I'd be amazed if the public believed it. The best thing Osborne can do is leave parliament.FrankBooth said:I think the reinvention of George Osborne from scheming Machiavellian to principled backbencher will be more fascinating than bruiser Balls turned prime time dancer. I'd guess the public will be less likely to buy it though.
Leave won. It seems that leavers are having more difficulty coping with this fact than remainers.
And I LOL about an accusation of being blind. On the day after the referendum I said I accepted the result, and that the important thing is to make it work. I haven't changed that view.
I'm not sure you are being impartial in any way. Vengeance against remainers seems to be sadly important to you.0 -
Am I right in reading May's remarks today that the UK will be going for full Brexit over Brexit-lite? She said we needed control over immigration and also EU law would no longer have power over the UK. That sounds like it rules out the EEA to me.0
-
I doubt it will shrink at all. Cameron tried to get a freeze and had to agree to a smaller rise. Now the coalition of restraint inside the EU is smaller with the UK out.Sandpit said:
It's taken them a while to understand that they will all be paying more into the budget, which isn't going to shrink much if at all when Britain leaves.chestnut said:The EU's post Brexit factional break up gathers pace:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-09-28/nordic-leaders-seek-eu-pact-over-post-brexit-power-play
Although Britain isn’t expected to formally leave the EU for years, top officials are already beginning to worry. One particular source of concern involves payments into the EU budget.
"Without the U.K. there will have to be a completely new discussion on the next long-term EU budget," Swedish Prime Minister Stefan Loefven said. "Our position is clear. If you have less income you should also have lower expenditure."0 -
Der Spiegel ran a lengthy article about it recently.Sandpit said:
It's taken them a while to understand that they will all be paying more into the budget, which isn't going to shrink much if at all when Britain leaves.chestnut said:The EU's post Brexit factional break up gathers pace:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-09-28/nordic-leaders-seek-eu-pact-over-post-brexit-power-play
Although Britain isn’t expected to formally leave the EU for years, top officials are already beginning to worry. One particular source of concern involves payments into the EU budget.
"Without the U.K. there will have to be a completely new discussion on the next long-term EU budget," Swedish Prime Minister Stefan Loefven said. "Our position is clear. If you have less income you should also have lower expenditure."
It seems to be a little discussed fact that other EU countries received 'Thatcher's Rebate' as well - basically the Nordic and Germanic nations, though the French didn't. That will come up in their internal re-negotiations.
In 2015 we were the EU's biggest budget contributor on a per capita basis, and we are a major player in the European Investment bank.
A recent paper on the continent also suggested:
Brexit could also lead to painful shortfalls for the European Investment Bank (EIB), Kullas calculated. If the British were to withdraw their share capital in the development bank, it would result in a shortfall worth billions. The EIB would be forced to make fewer loans -- loans that are vital for infrastructure projects across the Continent.
According to Kullas, the British have thus far borne the greatest burden at the bank. Their share of total capital is 16 percent, but they only benefit from 8.8 percent of the loans. No other country has a larger imbalance.
0 -
No- I'm not aware of that fact.Malmesbury said:
You are aware that wine is generally not er... animal free?tyson said:
There are plenty of nice dishes to eat without murdering something.malcolmg said:
Hmm, Roast Pork or roast beef as well, always hard to choose. Today it is chicken though.DavidL said:
Roast lamb?malcolmg said:
GIN, vefy well indeed, weekend weather has been lovely , will spend afternoon in garden reading the paper , possibly a nice bottle of cider and then roast chicken dinner. What more can one ask for.GIN1138 said:
Morning Malc. Yes, very well thanks.malcolmg said:
Morning GIN, hope you are well.GIN1138 said:
And should the Commons or more likely the Lords try to hold things up, an election is not ruled out...CarlottaVance said:@patrickwintour May gave clarity today. Trigger Article 50 by March 2017 so UK out by 2019 and EU Repeal bill passed by then so UK has own legal framework
Have been watching mega rich playboys go round and round in circles on telly (sounds a bit like our rulers in a lot of ways doesn't it? ) and now I'm off to enjoy the sunshine.
You OK?
0 -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clarification_and_stabilization_of_wine#Finingtyson said:
No- I'm not aware of that fact.Malmesbury said:
You are aware that wine is generally not er... animal free?tyson said:
There are plenty of nice dishes to eat without murdering something.malcolmg said:
Hmm, Roast Pork or roast beef as well, always hard to choose. Today it is chicken though.DavidL said:
Roast lamb?malcolmg said:
GIN, vefy well indeed, weekend weather has been lovely , will spend afternoon in garden reading the paper , possibly a nice bottle of cider and then roast chicken dinner. What more can one ask for.GIN1138 said:
Morning Malc. Yes, very well thanks.malcolmg said:
Morning GIN, hope you are well.GIN1138 said:
And should the Commons or more likely the Lords try to hold things up, an election is not ruled out...CarlottaVance said:@patrickwintour May gave clarity today. Trigger Article 50 by March 2017 so UK out by 2019 and EU Repeal bill passed by then so UK has own legal framework
Have been watching mega rich playboys go round and round in circles on telly (sounds a bit like our rulers in a lot of ways doesn't it? ) and now I'm off to enjoy the sunshine.
You OK?0 -
They could have saved a load of money and just asked Keith Lemon to write down all the words he knows.Indigo said:OFCOM seems to have been busy with our taxpayers money researching the essentials. If anyone feels their vocabulary for invective needs a small update, this would seem to be the place to look.
http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/binaries/research/tv-research/Offensive-language/Offensive-Language-2016-report.pdf0 -
Mr. Betting, My experience of the CS overlapped yours and in particular I was there in the early mid-nineties when email broke through. That little "CC" button became the Civil Servant's friend. Suddenly everything was being copied to everybody, and people read it all and replied (often using the reply to all button), even though the subject was not really anything to do with them. Productivity collapsed.TCPoliticalBetting said:
It was very true of offices in the 1970s and first half of the 1980s an era when there was little difference between public and pricvate offices IMHO. and that was before email. The numbers generated their own need for support etc. My ratio was that if we could cut 4 jobs in an office then at least 2 others would go eventually. Initially I worked on a 6:1 ratio but later 2:1 became the norm. A department that was 140 in 1980 dropped to 35 by 1985 and yet was handling more work (purchasing and contracts). Word processing on desks made a stunning improvement. This was at a time of growth by the international services company.0 -
Lesson 101:
foxinsoxuk said:The key to roasting beef is to do a big joint, and cook it slowly using a meat thermometer....
So the bloody Septics and EU Santa-Anna's/Santiannas have been selling ovens, micro-waves and Neffs under a false-hood as a stick of mecury would have done? Maybe someone need to read their posts before boring us with bull-shine...?0 -
Some of those insults were quite inventive, not ones I'd heard of.FrancisUrquhart said:
They could have saved a load of money and just asked Keith Lemon to write down all the words he knows.Indigo said:OFCOM seems to have been busy with our taxpayers money researching the essentials. If anyone feels their vocabulary for invective needs a small update, this would seem to be the place to look.
http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/binaries/research/tv-research/Offensive-language/Offensive-Language-2016-report.pdf0 -
Quite. It's probably not that far off to say that she and Bill are both, in American terms, Blairites - socially liberal, pro-free enterprise, but interventionist at home and (gulp) abroad.JosiasJessop said:
LOL.Paul_Bedfordshire said:Clinton moderate?
Come off it she is a far left Gramascian cultural marxist who would fit in well in Hampstead.
No, she isn't.
It helps that she's obviously qualified for the job, and Trump equally obviously isn't.0 -
I'm not a vegan- eggs, cheese and milk- I also eat seafood (though not fish).JosiasJessop said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clarification_and_stabilization_of_wine#Finingtyson said:
No- I'm not aware of that fact.Malmesbury said:
You are aware that wine is generally not er... animal free?tyson said:
There are plenty of nice dishes to eat without murdering something.malcolmg said:
Hmm, Roast Pork or roast beef as well, always hard to choose. Today it is chicken though.DavidL said:
Roast lamb?malcolmg said:
GIN, vefy well indeed, weekend weather has been lovely , will spend afternoon in garden reading the paper , possibly a nice bottle of cider and then roast chicken dinner. What more can one ask for.GIN1138 said:
Morning Malc. Yes, very well thanks.malcolmg said:
Morning GIN, hope you are well.GIN1138 said:
And should the Commons or more likely the Lords try to hold things up, an election is not ruled out...CarlottaVance said:@patrickwintour May gave clarity today. Trigger Article 50 by March 2017 so UK out by 2019 and EU Repeal bill passed by then so UK has own legal framework
Have been watching mega rich playboys go round and round in circles on telly (sounds a bit like our rulers in a lot of ways doesn't it? ) and now I'm off to enjoy the sunshine.
You OK?
I make my own dog food using meat- but cook it and freeze it on the day I buy it- I cannot have uncooked meat in the fridge...yuck..... I only ever buy free range meat.
I cannot say I am totally against eating meat- the chianina, the beef they rear in the Tuscan villages- they are incredibly well loved and cared for animals that have the most idyllic existence wandering the Appenines in the summer- and the slaughterhouses are local.
It is just human beings have no control; they cannot stop reducing themselves to the lowest common denominator no matter the cost for nature. The mass production and consumption of meat is one of our most disgusting characteristics.0 -
Huge carb load without protective fats slowing digestion is not terribly healthy. Think of India - why do you think they traditionally revere the cow? The butter protects when you have a herbivorous diet. Stops there being a big insulin spike. Lentils are good, garlic is good, eggs are good, spices are good.tyson said:
I make the most exquisite lentil curry, rich, deep, spicy, garlicky, moorish- the well cooked lentils melt in your mouth. I get a rich depth to the sauce by adding spices, and pasting vegetables- not by using fats (apart from a little olive oil). And after you feel good, not bloated. It is completely my recipe.
As a side, I finely chop some onions and add some red hot pepper sauce- super duper. And I garnish with a fine cut boiled egg on the top, adding a spot of olive oil, salt and pepper.
I make a superb roast dinner- and you can get the most wonderful rich gravy by finely cutting an onion, frying with some olive oil, adding some veggie stock, adding a bit of soya sauce, pepper, more than a hint of chilli, and a big splash of English mustard. You get the colour, texture and depth of flavour of any gravy in my opinion. And you can pile your plate with loads of yummy vegetables- mash potatoes, roast potatoes, a cauliflower cheese side, steamed carrot sticks, steamed green beans, fried greens, beautifully home made yorkies- and wash loads of that lovely rich gravy over it.
Olive oil shouldn't be heavily cooked imo - as a monounsaturated fat it's better than a polyunsaturated fat, but not as good for cooking as a saturated fat. Coconut oil, butter or ghee, or lard. Heated to high temperatures, unsaturated fat breaks apart at a molecular level and is likely to cause free radical damage. 0 -
United, LOL! 0
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And if Parliament declines to enact the Great Repeal Bill, what then?0
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Re: IDs and barstewards - the Remainers seem to be building up to repeating that and have not learned from it.JosiasJessop said:
I might remind you of the damage that IDS and the 'bastards' caused the party in the mid-1990s, and how they helped Blair to a decade in power. In comparison remainer MPs seem rather restrained.TCPoliticalBetting said:
It will only happen if some Remainer MPs cause major problems to implementing the referendum result. The damage to the party is coming from people such as Soubry and nicky Morgan taking to the airwaves and attacking the Govt. There is very little attacking of the Govt coming from LEAVERs so your comment about having difficulty coping with the result applies mainly to Remainers. However you seem to be a bit blind to taking an impartial view of what is going on.JosiasJessop said:
This shows the worst side of Conservative leavers, and why they could cause unnecessary damage to the Conservative party.TCPoliticalBetting said:
One of the benefits of the boundary review is that many of the Remainer MPs have to keep a little eye on the likely way that the boundaries go and their support within their local Executive under new boundaries...OldKingCole said:
One of the saving graces of the Leave vote was the political demise of Osborne. Front bench-wise anyway! Now, if we could only persuade Martin Bell to stand for Tatton again.........glw said:
I'd be amazed if the public believed it. The best thing Osborne can do is leave parliament.FrankBooth said:I think the reinvention of George Osborne from scheming Machiavellian to principled backbencher will be more fascinating than bruiser Balls turned prime time dancer. I'd guess the public will be less likely to buy it though.
Leave won. It seems that leavers are having more difficulty coping with this fact than remainers.
And I LOL about an accusation of being blind. On the day after the referendum I said I accepted the result, and that the important thing is to make it work. I haven't changed that view.
I'm not sure you are being impartial in any way. Vengeance against remainers seems to be sadly important to you.
Re: What you said. Judge someone by what they do not what they say they will do.
Re Vengence? Revenge is the dish that people with taste eat cold. The removal of Remainers will become inevitable if they carry on in this way as they are out of line with the membership. Unlike IDS etc in the 1990s when IDS etc were in line with most members.
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GEChris_A said:And if Parliament declines to enact the Great Repeal Bill, what then?
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But they have Rooney on.... Oh FFS....tlg86 said:United, LOL!
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First three or four minutes of this is brutal for both candidates
https://youtube.com/watch?v=FO6SSdplULI0 -
This may be my worst ever fantasy football week ever.0
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Betting thought.
Would the value be in backing Hilary in Swing states and Trump for the presidency?0
