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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » What The Great Repeal Bill means for triggering Article 50

SystemSystem Posts: 11,711
edited October 2016 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » What The Great Repeal Bill means for triggering Article 50

One of the most interesting aspects of the forthcoming Great Repeal Bill is the implications it will have for the Article 50 case currently progressing through the courts. The tweet above is from the eminent Q.C.

Read the full story here


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  • Options
    PolruanPolruan Posts: 2,083
    First means first.
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,799
    No prizes for second....or Remain....
  • Options
    DromedaryDromedary Posts: 1,194
    Why do you expect introducing the bill will coincide with invoking Article 50? What's the point in invoking Article 50 and then having the Commons, or indeed the Lords, vote the bill down?

    Meanwhile, Trump has now physically mocked how Clinton stumbled and collapsed on 11 September owing to pneumonia:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEmkIPfa6w8

    Last year he mocked a reporter's arthrogryposis:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqtoUFW5svQ

    He has also insulted those who suffer from super obesity, saying that the hacking into the DNC's computer, rather than being the work of Russian intelligence, might have been done by someone who weighs 400 pounds:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfVce4rELAY

    Does anyone who isn't a gun nut headbanger have a good reason to support this guy? C'mon, Trump surrogates with any sense of what makes and doesn't make a decent human being, withdraw your backing in an organised way and call for this casino-bankrupting, tax-avoiding, embargo-breaking billionaire to resign his candidacy.

  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,799
    Surely a 'ditherer' doesn't make 'bold moves'?

    Interestingly neither the Sunday Times nor Sunday Mail appear to have big anti-May stories this week, unlike last......I wonder if they learned from their readers' responses.....?

    I'm not surprised at the record turn out to the Tory Conference - I suspect many members will feel May is 'one of us' - something they never really felt with Cameron (let alone Osborne) for all his political skill....

    On a wardrobe note, while the Mail story observes May at 60 (today) is the oldest PM since Thatcher, I don't recall Thatcher wearing skinny jeans:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3817450/Theresa-arrives-Birmingham-Tory-party-conference-Prime-Minister-police-blanket-city-2-5MILLION-security-operation.html
  • Options
    PolruanPolruan Posts: 2,083
    Triggering A50 in 2017 looks optimistic. Not a huge amount of detail to go on yet, but it seems that the drafting of this bill will involve all the legwork of assessing which bits of EU law we want to keep and which we don't. That's a massive exercise for the draftsmen to undertake even with a clear and unambiguous set of principles on which to base the analysis.

    To state the obvious, no such principles are agreed at Cabinet level, and it's not clear that May herself has a detailed vision. Presumably the "how hard is your Brexit?" shibboleth will be assessed a thousand times in the light of whether each particular repeal or retention is needed to facilitate trade with the EU at the expense of someone's view of essential sovereignty in respect of a particular matter. These are arguments that will be played out in the media, in fringe meetings, online campaigns, backbench speeches.... all before the bill is even written.

    Best case seems to be that a bill is announced by HMQ in the spring but finalised (drafted) by the autumn. Then it has to get through both houses. The Commons will ultimately wave it through for fear of the wrath of the 52 per cent, no matter how badly drafted it is (this political reality is why the warfare will be so intense during the drafting phase). The Lords, however, cares rather less about electoral wrath, and will resist passing bad legislation - and given the complexity, ambiguity about aims, and uncertainty about the position the EU will adopt, this will be bad legislation.

    I'm not sure whether May is determined to get it done and will play the Parliament Act; or is adopting the Cameron strategy of proposing something popular but undesirable with the aim that someone else will block it, reaping the electoral punishment for anti-populism (see Scottish referenda passim) but neither of those possibilities leads to Royal Assent and hence A50 before the end of 2017.
  • Options
    GadflyGadfly Posts: 1,191
    Jo Maugham QC appeared to be having a rethink last night. The Sunday Times have reported that the Act will postdate triggering A50. which apparently suggests that the challenge will still happen.
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,799
    Polruan said:

    Triggering A50 in 2017 looks optimistic. .

    Despite the comments about 'we won't wait for the German elections in Autumn 2017' I suspect it doesn't make sense to trigger before those are out of the way. Since its clearly going to be simplest to sort out a deal with Germany & France (and possibly Italy), we need at least two of those to have governments which can engage in discussion, and that won't happen before late 2017.....I know the EU Parliament wants us out before May 2019, but I suspect they may be disappointed.....
  • Options
    619619 Posts: 1,784
    Dromedary said:

    Why do you expect introducing the bill will coincide with invoking Article 50? What's the point in invoking Article 50 and then having the Commons, or indeed the Lords, vote the bill down?

    Meanwhile, Trump has now physically mocked how Clinton stumbled and collapsed on 11 September owing to pneumonia:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEmkIPfa6w8

    Last year he mocked a reporter's arthrogryposis:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqtoUFW5svQ

    He has also insulted those who suffer from super obesity, saying that the hacking into the DNC's computer, rather than being the work of Russian intelligence, might have been done by someone who weighs 400 pounds:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfVce4rELAY

    Does anyone who isn't a gun nut headbanger have a good reason to support this guy? C'mon, Trump surrogates with any sense of what makes and doesn't make a decent human being, withdraw your backing in an organised way and call for this casino-bankrupting, tax-avoiding, embargo-breaking billionaire to resign his candidacy.

    anyone with any decency stopped supported him months ago. Its just scumbags now. Hopefully they are limited in number!
  • Options
    GadflyGadfly Posts: 1,191
    "The bill is expected to be brought forward in the next parliamentary session (2017-18) and will not pre-empt the two-year process of leaving the EU, which begins when the government triggers article 50."

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/oct/01/theresa-may-to-propose-great-repeal-bill-to-unwind-eu-laws
  • Options
    PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited October 2016
    Trump taxes are leaking.

    Potentially significant as he seems to have no answers. Anyway, there's a fair chance there are more leaks to come.


    I've laid more trump at 3.85.
  • Options
    619619 Posts: 1,784
    Pong said:

    Trump taxes are leaking.

    Potentially significant as he seems to have no answers. More leaks to come?

    I've laid more at 3.85.

    he gave his answer last week: he doesnt pay taxes because he's 'smart'
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,799
    Gadfly said:

    Jo Maugham QC appeared to be having a rethink last night. The Sunday Times have reported that the Act will postdate triggering A50. which apparently suggests that the challenge will still happen.

    He also tweets: If I were dead set on Leaving, this is exactly what I would do.

    And:

    Here's the Manifesto commitment to "respect the outcome". Under Salisbury convention, would a Repeal Act still need HL approval?

    His 'rethink' is:

    Reading the (far better) Sunday Times report it looks like the challenge will still happen because the Act will postdate triggering A50.

    The Legal position may be unchanged, but I suspect the politics is changed - MPs now have a vote - on repealing the 1972 European Communities Act
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,799
    619 said:

    Dromedary said:

    Why do you expect introducing the bill will coincide with invoking Article 50? What's the point in invoking Article 50 and then having the Commons, or indeed the Lords, vote the bill down?

    Meanwhile, Trump has now physically mocked how Clinton stumbled and collapsed on 11 September owing to pneumonia:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEmkIPfa6w8

    Last year he mocked a reporter's arthrogryposis:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqtoUFW5svQ

    He has also insulted those who suffer from super obesity, saying that the hacking into the DNC's computer, rather than being the work of Russian intelligence, might have been done by someone who weighs 400 pounds:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfVce4rELAY

    Does anyone who isn't a gun nut headbanger have a good reason to support this guy? C'mon, Trump surrogates with any sense of what makes and doesn't make a decent human being, withdraw your backing in an organised way and call for this casino-bankrupting, tax-avoiding, embargo-breaking billionaire to resign his candidacy.

    anyone with any decency stopped supported him months ago. Its just scumbags now. Hopefully they are limited in number!
    With all due respect - that is the sort of 'thinking' that won the referendum for REMAIN.

    I think he's an obnoxious git - but he's tapped into the fears and concerns of those left behind by globalisation - and demonising them won't change their minds.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 59,018

    619 said:

    Dromedary said:

    Why do you expect introducing the bill will coincide with invoking Article 50? What's the point in invoking Article 50 and then having the Commons, or indeed the Lords, vote the bill down?

    Meanwhile, Trump has now physically mocked how Clinton stumbled and collapsed on 11 September owing to pneumonia:

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEmkIPfa6w8

    Last year he mocked a reporter's arthrogryposis:

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqtoUFW5svQ

    He has also insulted those who suffer from super obesity, saying that the hacking into the DNC's computer, rather than being the work of Russian intelligence, might have been done by someone who weighs 400 pounds:

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfVce4rELAY

    Does anyone who isn't a gun nut headbanger have a good reason to support this guy? C'mon, Trump surrogates with any sense of what makes and doesn't make a decent human being, withdraw your backing in an organised way and call for this casino-bankrupting, tax-avoiding, embargo-breaking billionaire to resign his candidacy.

    anyone with any decency stopped supported him months ago. Its just scumbags now. Hopefully they are limited in number!
    With all due respect - that is the sort of 'thinking' that won the referendum for REMAIN.

    I think he's an obnoxious git - but he's tapped into the fears and concerns of those left behind by globalisation - and demonising them won't change their minds.
    And they said PB Tories never learn! (We do, quite well in fact!)
  • Options
    PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited October 2016
    619 said:

    Pong said:

    Trump taxes are leaking.

    Potentially significant as he seems to have no answers. More leaks to come?

    I've laid more at 3.85.

    he gave his answer last week: he doesnt pay taxes because he's 'smart'
    If he does lose this, I suspect we're going to be in for the most epic trumpertantrum as he turns on everybody who has helped him during the campaign. Ultimately he'll be skewered by those closest to him.

    Try not to laugh when it happens.
  • Options
    MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034

    619 said:

    Dromedary said:

    Why do you expect introducing the bill will coincide with invoking Article 50? What's the point in invoking Article 50 and then having the Commons, or indeed the Lords, vote the bill down?

    Meanwhile, Trump has now physically mocked how Clinton stumbled and collapsed on 11 September owing to pneumonia:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEmkIPfa6w8

    Last year he mocked a reporter's arthrogryposis:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqtoUFW5svQ

    He has also insulted those who suffer from super obesity, saying that the hacking into the DNC's computer, rather than being the work of Russian intelligence, might have been done by someone who weighs 400 pounds:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfVce4rELAY

    Does anyone who isn't a gun nut headbanger have a good reason to support this guy? C'mon, Trump surrogates with any sense of what makes and doesn't make a decent human being, withdraw your backing in an organised way and call for this casino-bankrupting, tax-avoiding, embargo-breaking billionaire to resign his candidacy.

    anyone with any decency stopped supported him months ago. Its just scumbags now. Hopefully they are limited in number!
    With all due respect - that is the sort of 'thinking' that won the referendum for REMAIN.

    I think he's an obnoxious git - but he's tapped into the fears and concerns of those left behind by globalisation - and demonising them won't change their minds.
    Indeed. Trump is unelectable in my view, but how decent a human being is someone who believes 45% of the US electorate are scumbags?
  • Options
    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    619 said:

    Dromedary said:

    Why do you expect introducing the bill will coincide with invoking Article 50? What's the point in invoking Article 50 and then having the Commons, or indeed the Lords, vote the bill down?

    Meanwhile, Trump has now physically mocked how Clinton stumbled and collapsed on 11 September owing to pneumonia:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEmkIPfa6w8

    Last year he mocked a reporter's arthrogryposis:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqtoUFW5svQ

    He has also insulted those who suffer from super obesity, saying that the hacking into the DNC's computer, rather than being the work of Russian intelligence, might have been done by someone who weighs 400 pounds:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfVce4rELAY

    Does anyone who isn't a gun nut headbanger have a good reason to support this guy? C'mon, Trump surrogates with any sense of what makes and doesn't make a decent human being, withdraw your backing in an organised way and call for this casino-bankrupting, tax-avoiding, embargo-breaking billionaire to resign his candidacy.

    anyone with any decency stopped supported him months ago. Its just scumbags now. Hopefully they are limited in number!
    You appear to have just described 70m+ Americans as scumbags. Hopefully the Democratic spinners won't be so stupid, as we know from the BrExit campaign, insulting your opponent and his supporters is much the best way to get them to see your point of view.
  • Options
    619619 Posts: 1,784
    MTimT said:

    619 said:

    Dromedary said:

    Why do you expect introducing the bill will coincide with invoking Article 50? What's the point in invoking Article 50 and then having the Commons, or indeed the Lords, vote the bill down?

    Meanwhile, Trump has now physically mocked how Clinton stumbled and collapsed on 11 September owing to pneumonia:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEmkIPfa6w8

    Last year he mocked a reporter's arthrogryposis:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqtoUFW5svQ

    He has also insulted those who suffer from super obesity, saying that the hacking into the DNC's computer, rather than being the work of Russian intelligence, might have been done by someone who weighs 400 pounds:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfVce4rELAY

    Does anyone who isn't a gun nut headbanger have a good reason to support this guy? C'mon, Trump surrogates with any sense of what makes and doesn't make a decent human being, withdraw your backing in an organised way and call for this casino-bankrupting, tax-avoiding, embargo-breaking billionaire to resign his candidacy.

    anyone with any decency stopped supported him months ago. Its just scumbags now. Hopefully they are limited in number!
    With all due respect - that is the sort of 'thinking' that won the referendum for REMAIN.

    I think he's an obnoxious git - but he's tapped into the fears and concerns of those left behind by globalisation - and demonising them won't change their minds.
    Indeed. Trump is unelectable in my view, but how decent a human being is someone who believes 45% of the US electorate are scumbags?
    what is trump offering other than racism and hate at this point???

  • Options
    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966

    Gadfly said:

    Jo Maugham QC appeared to be having a rethink last night. The Sunday Times have reported that the Act will postdate triggering A50. which apparently suggests that the challenge will still happen.

    He also tweets: If I were dead set on Leaving, this is exactly what I would do.

    And:

    Here's the Manifesto commitment to "respect the outcome". Under Salisbury convention, would a Repeal Act still need HL approval?

    His 'rethink' is:

    Reading the (far better) Sunday Times report it looks like the challenge will still happen because the Act will postdate triggering A50.

    The Legal position may be unchanged, but I suspect the politics is changed - MPs now have a vote - on repealing the 1972 European Communities Act
    If MPs have already voted to repeal the 1972 Act its going to look a bit flimsy to try and claim that they are opposed to A50, or that they haven't already had their say. Its also not impossible that the government tacks an A50 authorisation into the Repeal Act and dared MPs to bring the whole lot down. It could also be driven through on a confidence vote if it came to the crunch.
  • Options
    PongPong Posts: 4,693
    619 said:

    MTimT said:

    619 said:

    Dromedary said:

    Why do you expect introducing the bill will coincide with invoking Article 50? What's the point in invoking Article 50 and then having the Commons, or indeed the Lords, vote the bill down?

    Meanwhile, Trump has now physically mocked how Clinton stumbled and collapsed on 11 September owing to pneumonia:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEmkIPfa6w8

    Last year he mocked a reporter's arthrogryposis:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqtoUFW5svQ

    He has also insulted those who suffer from super obesity, saying that the hacking into the DNC's computer, rather than being the work of Russian intelligence, might have been done by someone who weighs 400 pounds:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfVce4rELAY

    Does anyone who isn't a gun nut headbanger have a good reason to support this guy? C'mon, Trump surrogates with any sense of what makes and doesn't make a decent human being, withdraw your backing in an organised way and call for this casino-bankrupting, tax-avoiding, embargo-breaking billionaire to resign his candidacy.

    anyone with any decency stopped supported him months ago. Its just scumbags now. Hopefully they are limited in number!
    With all due respect - that is the sort of 'thinking' that won the referendum for REMAIN.

    I think he's an obnoxious git - but he's tapped into the fears and concerns of those left behind by globalisation - and demonising them won't change their minds.
    Indeed. Trump is unelectable in my view, but how decent a human being is someone who believes 45% of the US electorate are scumbags?
    what is trump offering other than racism and hate at this point???

    Not Hillary.

    That's pretty much his USP
  • Options
    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    619 said:

    MTimT said:

    619 said:

    Dromedary said:

    Why do you expect introducing the bill will coincide with invoking Article 50? What's the point in invoking Article 50 and then having the Commons, or indeed the Lords, vote the bill down?

    Meanwhile, Trump has now physically mocked how Clinton stumbled and collapsed on 11 September owing to pneumonia:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEmkIPfa6w8

    Last year he mocked a reporter's arthrogryposis:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqtoUFW5svQ

    He has also insulted those who suffer from super obesity, saying that the hacking into the DNC's computer, rather than being the work of Russian intelligence, might have been done by someone who weighs 400 pounds:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfVce4rELAY

    Does anyone who isn't a gun nut headbanger have a good reason to support this guy? C'mon, Trump surrogates with any sense of what makes and doesn't make a decent human being, withdraw your backing in an organised way and call for this casino-bankrupting, tax-avoiding, embargo-breaking billionaire to resign his candidacy.

    anyone with any decency stopped supported him months ago. Its just scumbags now. Hopefully they are limited in number!
    With all due respect - that is the sort of 'thinking' that won the referendum for REMAIN.

    I think he's an obnoxious git - but he's tapped into the fears and concerns of those left behind by globalisation - and demonising them won't change their minds.
    Indeed. Trump is unelectable in my view, but how decent a human being is someone who believes 45% of the US electorate are scumbags?
    what is trump offering other than racism and hate at this point???

    That is beside the point. Being rude about 45% of Americans is just going to make them more determined to vote for Trump. If you really hate Trump, you would be taking a smarter approach which might ween a few of his voters away, calling them names won't.
  • Options
    619619 Posts: 1,784
    Indigo said:

    619 said:

    MTimT said:

    619 said:

    Dromedary said:

    Why do you expect introducing the bill will coincide with invoking Article 50? What's the point in invoking Article 50 and then having the Commons, or indeed the Lords, vote the bill down?

    Meanwhile, Trump has now physically mocked how Clinton stumbled and collapsed on 11 September owing to pneumonia:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEmkIPfa6w8

    Last year he mocked a reporter's arthrogryposis:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqtoUFW5svQ

    He has also insulted those who suffer from super obesity, saying that the hacking into the DNC's computer, rather than being the work of Russian intelligence, might have been done by someone who weighs 400 pounds:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfVce4rELAY

    Does anyone who isn't a gun nut headbanger have a good reason to support this guy? C'mon, Trump surrogates with any sense of what makes and doesn't make a decent human being, withdraw your backing in an organised way and call for this casino-bankrupting, tax-avoiding, embargo-breaking billionaire to resign his candidacy.

    anyone with any decency stopped supported him months ago. Its just scumbags now. Hopefully they are limited in number!
    With all due respect - that is the sort of 'thinking' that won the referendum for REMAIN.

    I think he's an obnoxious git - but he's tapped into the fears and concerns of those left behind by globalisation - and demonising them won't change their minds.
    Indeed. Trump is unelectable in my view, but how decent a human being is someone who believes 45% of the US electorate are scumbags?
    what is trump offering other than racism and hate at this point???

    That is beside the point. Being rude about 45% of Americans is just going to make them more determined to vote for Trump. If you really hate Trump, you would be taking a smarter approach which might ween a few of his voters away, calling them names won't.
    they support trump and yet seem to be such delicate flowers that 'deplorables' makes them have a touch of the vapours. I dont buy it. At this stage, no logical reason to vote for a crazy racist liar like trump
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,971
    Morning. Does anyone think the intention to declare Article 50 early next year has been changed by yesterday's announcements? If not, then the 1/5 pays out in six months max and is good value, if it's going to be 18 months as TSE suggests then the time value of money goes against the bet.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,971
    Is four years of having an idiot like Trump in charge, the price worth paying for getting the big money and lobbyists out of Washington? Discuss.
  • Options
    619619 Posts: 1,784
    Sandpit said:

    Is four years of having an idiot like Trump in charge, the price worth paying for getting the big money and lobbyists out of Washington? Discuss.

    no.
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,799
    edited October 2016
    619 said:

    Indigo said:

    619 said:

    MTimT said:

    619 said:

    Dromedary said:

    Why do you expect introducing the bill will coincide with invoking Article 50? What's the point in invoking Article 50 and then having the Commons, or indeed the Lords, vote the bill down?

    Meanwhile, Trump has now physically mocked how Clinton stumbled and collapsed on 11 September owing to pneumonia:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEmkIPfa6w8

    Last year he mocked a reporter's arthrogryposis:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqtoUFW5svQ

    He has also insulted those who suffer from super obesity, saying that the hacking into the DNC's computer, rather than being the work of Russian intelligence, might have been done by someone who weighs 400 pounds:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfVce4rELAY

    Does anyone who isn't a gun nut headbanger have a good reason to support this guy? C'mon, Trump surrogates with any sense of what makes and doesn't make a decent human being, withdraw your backing in an organised way and call for this casino-bankrupting, tax-avoiding, embargo-breaking billionaire to resign his candidacy.

    anyone with any decency stopped supported him months ago. Its just scumbags now. Hopefully they are limited in number!
    With all due respect - that is the sort of 'thinking' that won the referendum for REMAIN.

    I think he's an obnoxious git - but he's tapped into the fears and concerns of those left behind by globalisation - and demonising them won't change their minds.
    Indeed. Trump is unelectable in my view, but how decent a human being is someone who believes 45% of the US electorate are scumbags?
    what is trump offering other than racism and hate at this point???

    That is beside the point. Being rude about 45% of Americans is just going to make them more determined to vote for Trump. If you really hate Trump, you would be taking a smarter approach which might ween a few of his voters away, calling them names won't.
    no logical reason to vote for a crazy racist liar like trump
    You answer your own question - no logical reason, but for some emotional ones.

    Which is why calling them names is spectacularly unsuited to getting them to change their minds.

    Even if it does make you feel better about yourself.

    As Lady Violet (Maggie Smith's character in Downton Abbey) observed

    'Does it ever get cold on the moral high ground'?
  • Options
    CD13CD13 Posts: 6,352
    Mr 619,

    Look at it from the point of view of the Trump waverers. Clinton is Establishment, careless with security e-mails, very careful with her own funding, and possibly suffering from a hidden illness. But Trump is possibly too dangerous to have as POTUS.

    The Democrats' clinching argument is this. "See that bag of poo over there, that's you that is." The words of a seven-year-old having a tantrum. Does that clinch the deal for you?
  • Options
    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,730
    Sandpit said:

    Is four years of having an idiot like Trump in charge, the price worth paying for getting the big money and lobbyists out of Washington? Discuss.

    First, will it get big money and lobbyists out of Washington?
    Second will it make it more likely that Russia will become more expansionist in say Ukraine and the Baltic States?
    And that's just for starters.
  • Options
    619619 Posts: 1,784
    CD13 said:

    Mr 619,

    Look at it from the point of view of the Trump waverers. Clinton is Establishment, careless with security e-mails, very careful with her own funding, and possibly suffering from a hidden illness. But Trump is possibly too dangerous to have as POTUS.

    The Democrats' clinching argument is this. "See that bag of poo over there, that's you that is." The words of a seven-year-old having a tantrum. Does that clinch the deal for you?

    i think you are very much overselling clinton's flaws and underselling trumps.

    its more 'Stop voting for that crazy racist over there who hates women. DO NOT GIVE HIM ACCESS TO NUCLEAR WEOPENS'.
  • Options
    Innocent_AbroadInnocent_Abroad Posts: 3,294
    edited October 2016
    What should the Great Repeal Bill say? Simply that the 48% are all traitors & therefore it's legal to shoot them all dead. Or, have I misunderstood? If so, I', sure one or other of the Seans, or even Charles, can explain...
  • Options
    Sandpit said:

    Is four years of having an idiot like Trump in charge, the price worth paying for getting the big money and lobbyists out of Washington? Discuss.

    Yeah, like that would happen.
  • Options
    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,730
    Sandpit said:

    Morning. Does anyone think the intention to declare Article 50 early next year has been changed by yesterday's announcements? If not, then the 1/5 pays out in six months max and is good value, if it's going to be 18 months as TSE suggests then the time value of money goes against the bet.

    It doesn't change anything. It doesn't take effect until we actually leave, it's just a sop to the Tory party conference.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,088
    Indigo said:

    619 said:

    MTimT said:

    619 said:

    Dromedary said:

    Why do you expect introducing the bill will coincide with invoking Article 50? What's the point in invoking Article 50 and then having the Commons, or indeed the Lords, vote the bill down?

    Meanwhile, Trump has now physically mocked how Clinton stumbled and collapsed on 11 September owing to pneumonia:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEmkIPfa6w8

    Last year he mocked a reporter's arthrogryposis:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqtoUFW5svQ

    He has also insulted those who suffer from super obesity, saying that the hacking into the DNC's computer, rather than being the work of Russian intelligence, might have been done by someone who weighs 400 pounds:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfVce4rELAY

    Does anyone who isn't a gun nut headbanger have a good reason to support this guy? C'mon, Trump surrogates with any sense of what makes and doesn't make a decent human being, withdraw your backing in an organised way and call for this casino-bankrupting, tax-avoiding, embargo-breaking billionaire to resign his candidacy.

    anyone with any decency stopped supported him months ago. Its just scumbags now. Hopefully they are limited in number!
    With all due respect - that is the sort of 'thinking' that won the referendum for REMAIN.

    I think he's an obnoxious git - but he's tapped into the fears and concerns of those left behind by globalisation - and demonising them won't change their minds.
    Indeed. Trump is unelectable in my view, but how decent a human being is someone who believes 45% of the US electorate are scumbags?
    what is trump offering other than racism and hate at this point???

    That is beside the point. Being rude about 45% of Americans is just going to make them more determined to vote for Trump. If you really hate Trump, you would be taking a smarter approach which might ween a few of his voters away, calling them names won't.
    Absolutely. It’s similar to the old managerial advice. “Help others on the way up; you may need them on the way down.” Alienating any group with abuse is always a bad idea.
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,211
    Sandpit said:

    Is four years of having an idiot like Trump in charge, the price worth paying for getting the big money and lobbyists out of Washington? Discuss.

    Probably better put Clinton in charge and watch her squirm as the banking sector goes tits up again.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 59,018
    619 said:

    CD13 said:

    Mr 619,

    Look at it from the point of view of the Trump waverers. Clinton is Establishment, careless with security e-mails, very careful with her own funding, and possibly suffering from a hidden illness. But Trump is possibly too dangerous to have as POTUS.

    The Democrats' clinching argument is this. "See that bag of poo over there, that's you that is." The words of a seven-year-old having a tantrum. Does that clinch the deal for you?

    i think you are very much overselling clinton's flaws and underselling trumps.

    its more 'Stop voting for that crazy racist over there who hates women. DO NOT GIVE HIM ACCESS TO NUCLEAR WEOPENS'.
    Instead, let's give them to Clinton so she can store the codes on her private server.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,799
    edited October 2016

    Sandpit said:

    Morning. Does anyone think the intention to declare Article 50 early next year has been changed by yesterday's announcements? If not, then the 1/5 pays out in six months max and is good value, if it's going to be 18 months as TSE suggests then the time value of money goes against the bet.

    It doesn't change anything. It doesn't take effect until we actually leave, it's just a sop to the Tory party conference.
    Which is dominating the Sunday front pages....

    And BBC News: http://www.bbc.com/news/uk

    ....not bad for a 'sop'......
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    RobDRobD Posts: 59,018

    Sandpit said:

    Is four years of having an idiot like Trump in charge, the price worth paying for getting the big money and lobbyists out of Washington? Discuss.

    Yeah, like that would happen.
    Quite!
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    ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,021
    This is the most ill-tempered POTUS campaign of all time, but in the end it doesn't matter. It's a simple question of the USA's current demographics. I just don't see how Trump can win, and analogies with the referendum are irrelevant to that fact.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 59,018

    Sandpit said:

    Morning. Does anyone think the intention to declare Article 50 early next year has been changed by yesterday's announcements? If not, then the 1/5 pays out in six months max and is good value, if it's going to be 18 months as TSE suggests then the time value of money goes against the bet.

    It doesn't change anything. It doesn't take effect until we actually leave, it's just a sop to the Tory party conference.
    Which is dominating the Sunday front pages....

    And BBC News: http://www.bbc.com/news/uk

    ....not bad for a 'sop'......
    Still can't believe Brexit wasn't discussed at Labour's conference!
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    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966

    What should the Great Repeal Bill say? Simply that the 48% are all traitors & therefore it's legal to shoot them all dead. Or, have I misunderstood? If so, I', sure one or other of the Seans, or even Charles, can explain...

    Christ on a bike. It means the 48% lost, the clue being in the number being smaller than 50% so the government has been mandated to follow the request of the 52% (they won, the number being bigger than 50%).

    When Labour won the general election no one suggested it was time to shoot all the Tories (well maybe MacMao did), it was just time to do what Labour wanted for a while, and now for the same reasons it time to do what the Leavers want for while.

    Its exactly the same as the bleating north of the border about 45% being nearly a win, and presumably if the referendum had been a little more decisive 35% would have been "nearly a win" as well. Sorry, you cant be a bit in the EU any more than you can be a bit pregnant.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,799

    Sandpit said:

    Is four years of having an idiot like Trump in charge, the price worth paying for getting the big money and lobbyists out of Washington? Discuss.

    Yeah, like that would happen.
    Of course! they'd be on Trump's golf courses, at Trump's resorts and in Trump's hotels instead!


    Progress, surely?
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    619619 Posts: 1,784
    back on trumps leaked tax returns...

    What sort of fucking idiot loses a billion dollars running casinos???
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    RobDRobD Posts: 59,018
    619 said:

    back on trumps leaked tax returns...

    What sort of fucking idiot loses a billion dollars running casinos???

    Is the coarse language really that necessary?
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,126
    My memory's slightly dodgy, but didn't someone on here suggest a GRB a way forward before the referendum?

    Can anyone remember who it was?
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,126
    Indigo said:

    What should the Great Repeal Bill say? Simply that the 48% are all traitors & therefore it's legal to shoot them all dead. Or, have I misunderstood? If so, I', sure one or other of the Seans, or even Charles, can explain...

    Christ on a bike. It means the 48% lost, the clue being in the number being smaller than 50% so the government has been mandated to follow the request of the 52% (they won, the number being bigger than 50%).

    When Labour won the general election no one suggested it was time to shoot all the Tories (well maybe MacMao did), it was just time to do what Labour wanted for a while, and now for the same reasons it time to do what the Leavers want for while.

    Its exactly the same as the bleating north of the border about 45% being nearly a win, and presumably if the referendum had been a little more decisive 35% would have been "nearly a win" as well. Sorry, you cant be a bit in the EU any more than you can be a bit pregnant.
    I think IA is referring to some of the fruitier language some of the leavers have used against the remainers.

    And which we saw more of yesterday. It's quite sad to think that some leavers are such utterly poor winnerswhiners ...
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    CD13CD13 Posts: 6,352
    Mr 619,

    "I think you are very much overselling clinton's flaws and underselling trumps."

    Not from the point of view of a Tump waverer.

    "its more 'Stop voting for that crazy racist over there who hates women. DO NOT GIVE HIM ACCESS TO NUCLEAR WEOPENS'."

    Is better and is more the official Democrat positIon, but needs to be more nuanced. But many Democrat supporters can't stop reverting to the seven-year-old.

    Even a few formerly-rational Remainers couldn't stop themselves from reverting during Brexit. It's totally counterproductive and pointless.

    Remain made some good points during Brexit, but the personal abuse could have cost them some vital votes.
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Trump was over and hour and a half late for his rally. I think he might be sick. Sad.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,472
    edited October 2016

    Sandpit said:

    Is four years of having an idiot like Trump in charge, the price worth paying for getting the big money and lobbyists out of Washington? Discuss.

    First, will it get big money and lobbyists out of Washington?
    Second will it make it more likely that Russia will become more expansionist in say Ukraine and the Baltic States?
    And that's just for starters.
    The real irony is of course that Trump and Clinton are actually very similar. They are both based in New York, they are both social liberals in private although their rhetoric doesn't show it, they both have links to very questionable organisations, they are both old and suspected of hiding health problems, they have both been subject to police investigations, they have both used the 'birther' card against Obama and they have both made outrageous rhetorical statements on foreign policy in a bid to prop up their base, although in fairness I haven't yet heard of Trump threatening to use nuclear weapons against Mexico the way Clinton threatened to against Iran. Indeed, for many years the two of them seem to have been quite good friends.

    They are both also very arrogant, very rude and clearly not possessed of high intelligence although both are also clearly above average. Not that that's necessarily a handicap - intellectually the Bushes were giants compared to most presidents of the 20th century (yes, really) and neither were (to put it mildly) great successes.

    Moreover, whichever one gets in will surely face a very hostile Republican congress which will be out to block them at every turn. Given that Trump has zero experience of administration and Hilary's experience consists pretty much exclusively of a series of total and unmitigated fiascos (healthcare, Libya) we can expect a presidency where very little actually happens.

    So this election probably boils down to whether you want a woman or a man in charge. Trump is helpfully making this easy for the Democrats by being a complete chauvinist, while Clinton is equally helpfully switching off moderate republicans by describing them in shall we say rather lurid terms.

    Bluntly, the best way to make money on this election is probably to bet on a very low turnout as the party of 'they're all a bunch of scumbags' wins the vote handsomely. Any figure for under 60% should be free money, and anything for under 50% seems value.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,427
    edited October 2016
    I think this is being overplayed. The court case against the Government using the Prerogative for Article 50 is nonsense. One of the reasons it is nonsense is because Parliament is very far from excluded from the process. Parliament will have to vote to repeal the European Communities Act and no doubt a huge volume of other legislation. That will be its role, not voting on the Prerogative itself.

    That Act is likely to be more straightforward than some are suggesting. It will need to repeal the ECA and any other provisions giving supremacy to EU law, to repeal any obligation on our Courts to follow CJE decisions, to provide that notwithstanding that EU legislation remains in force until Parliament decides otherwise and it may determine where some of the recovered legislative competence goes. I suspect the various Parliaments and Assemblies will all get a cut. I don't expect it to look to rewrite our substantive law in any area.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,799
    Keegan's lost the plot:

    Only 37% voted for a hard Brexit. For what does leaving the EU mean other than a hard Brexit? .....

    I bet that a fair proportion of the 37% did not appreciate the implications of what they were doing. ......

    How can a nation such as ours be so stupid? To coin a phrase, we need our country back. Our sovereign parliament must veto this absurd and self-destructive policy.


    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/oct/02/corbynistas-may-have-majority-but-brexiters-dont?utm_term=Autofeed&CMP=twt_a-politics_b-gdnukpolitics
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    RobDRobD Posts: 59,018
    Alistair said:

    Trump was over and hour and a half late for his rally. I think he might be sick. Sad.

    Sounds fine in the video? Can't believe it was an hour long though.. talk about rambling :D
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    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,157
    Sandpit said:

    Morning. Does anyone think the intention to declare Article 50 early next year has been changed by yesterday's announcements? If not, then the 1/5 pays out in six months max and is good value, if it's going to be 18 months as TSE suggests then the time value of money goes against the bet.

    What's the reason for thinking May intends to trigger early next year?
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    JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,400

    My memory's slightly dodgy, but didn't someone on here suggest a GRB a way forward before the referendum?

    Can anyone remember who it was?

    A GRB was always the favoured way for quickly dealing with the interweaved EU and UK law. I think Hannan suggested it years ago. In the grand scheme of things its irrelevant to our relationship with the EU and says nothing about the likelihood of hard or soft Brexit.

    It's a good dead cat however and will keep the bent banana and incandescent light bulb frothers distracted.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,472
    @Indigo

    His name is not McMao.

    It is Maodonnell.

    That sounds like the start of a song. But it obviously can't have a tune or meter as both are capitalist bourgeois constructs that we should never ever use.

    Old Maodonnell had a farm. But that was far too bourgeois for him, so he collectivised it with innumerable other farms. This meant they could sit around talking high matters of politics all day and throwing stones at the sparrows, as a result of which the crops failed and they all starved.

    Ee-I EE-I o.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,971

    Sandpit said:

    Morning. Does anyone think the intention to declare Article 50 early next year has been changed by yesterday's announcements? If not, then the 1/5 pays out in six months max and is good value, if it's going to be 18 months as TSE suggests then the time value of money goes against the bet.

    What's the reason for thinking May intends to trigger early next year?
    From what she's said previously, combined with the EU timetable that starts the new Parliamentary session and MEP elections in May 2109.
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    May's statement that she won't wait for the German elections ( September ' 17 ) to trigger A50 is new in that it gives a time limit. It also neatly buts her extra time as August '17 in much later than the " early next year " we've all been fed to date. It's carefully crafted. She's extending her envelope on A50 under cover of giving a deadline for doing it.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,427
    JonathanD said:

    My memory's slightly dodgy, but didn't someone on here suggest a GRB a way forward before the referendum?

    Can anyone remember who it was?

    A GRB was always the favoured way for quickly dealing with the interweaved EU and UK law. I think Hannan suggested it years ago. In the grand scheme of things its irrelevant to our relationship with the EU and says nothing about the likelihood of hard or soft Brexit.

    It's a good dead cat however and will keep the bent banana and incandescent light bulb frothers distracted.
    I agree that it will say nothing about our relationship with the EU going forward although it just might include some provisions empowering the Government to agree cooperation and membership of some EU and quasi EU institutions. In that way it might give some hints as to how the Government sees that relationship evolving.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,126
    JonathanD said:

    My memory's slightly dodgy, but didn't someone on here suggest a GRB a way forward before the referendum?

    Can anyone remember who it was?

    A GRB was always the favoured way for quickly dealing with the interweaved EU and UK law. I think Hannan suggested it years ago. In the grand scheme of things its irrelevant to our relationship with the EU and says nothing about the likelihood of hard or soft Brexit.

    It's a good dead cat however and will keep the bent banana and incandescent light bulb frothers distracted.
    Thanks.

    Must be my memory then, as I can only vaguely remember it being mentioned or discussed.

    Ho hum.
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    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,157
    edited October 2016
    On topic I can't comment on what the bill means without seeing what's in it so I may be out of date on this but I think those 2019/2020 odds look interesting, particularly 2019. The practical problem is that any specific Brexit plan gets May lynched, but so does not pulling the lever. So stall into 2017, then announce a future date for pulling it, that puts the actual negotiations the other side of the next election. The right will be peeved, but they won't try to defenestrate her as long as they've actually got a commitment to give then what they want.
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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    I'm sure that won them over

    Washington Examiner
    Hillary Clinton referred to Sanders fans as frustrated basement-dwellers in newly revealed audio https://t.co/RX59okwYcO https://t.co/mv9M01tz67
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    Davis' language on the ECJ is another sign that Single Market *Membership* is off the table. I think we all knew that anyway from myriad other signals. At some point a Minister will say it out loud and definitively.
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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    ydoethur said:

    @Indigo

    His name is not McMao.

    It is Maodonnell.

    That sounds like the start of a song. But it obviously can't have a tune or meter as both are capitalist bourgeois constructs that we should never ever use.

    Old Maodonnell had a farm. But that was far too bourgeois for him, so he collectivised it with innumerable other farms. This meant they could sit around talking high matters of politics all day and throwing stones at the sparrows, as a result of which the crops failed and they all starved.

    Ee-I EE-I o.

    :smiley:
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    RobD said:

    Alistair said:

    Trump was over and hour and a half late for his rally. I think he might be sick. Sad.

    Sounds fine in the video? Can't believe it was an hour long though.. talk about rambling :D
    I think the real reason for being late is he was having a 90 min long tantrum about the NYT getting hold of one of his tax returns.
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    PlatoSaid said:

    I'm sure that won them over

    Washington Examiner
    Hillary Clinton referred to Sanders fans as frustrated basement-dwellers in newly revealed audio https://t.co/RX59okwYcO https://t.co/mv9M01tz67

    Misleadingbheadlibe is misleading. You clearly didn't listen to the audio. At least you aren't posting fake quotes though.
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    Innocent_AbroadInnocent_Abroad Posts: 3,294
    edited October 2016
    Indigo said:

    What should the Great Repeal Bill say? Simply that the 48% are all traitors & therefore it's legal to shoot them all dead. Or, have I misunderstood? If so, I', sure one or other of the Seans, or even Charles, can explain...

    Christ on a bike. It means the 48% lost, the clue being in the number being smaller than 50% so the government has been mandated to follow the request of the 52% (they won, the number being bigger than 50%).

    When Labour won the general election no one suggested it was time to shoot all the Tories (well maybe MacMao did), it was just time to do what Labour wanted for a while, and now for the same reasons it time to do what the Leavers want for while.

    Its exactly the same as the bleating north of the border about 45% being nearly a win, and presumably if the referendum had been a little more decisive 35% would have been "nearly a win" as well. Sorry, you cant be a bit in the EU any more than you can be a bit pregnant.
    Tories are always right about everything, aren't they? Other than that, I can't see any connection to what I wrote earlier.



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    On topic I can't comment on what the bill means without seeing what's in it so I may be out of date on this but I think those 2019/2020 odds look interesting, particularly 2019. The practical problem is that any specific Brexit plan gets May lynched, but so does not pulling the lever. So stall into 2017, then announce a future date for pulling it, that puts the actual negotiations the other side of the next election. The right will be peeved, but they won't try to defenestrate her as long as they've actually got a commitment to give then what they want.

    The problem is May has clearly grasped the complexity and is slowing the process down. The Brexit Bill is the latest example. But a slower approach reduces the chance of a car crash. It makes Brexit more likely to actually happen.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @hugorifkind: The Great Repeal Bill is nonsense. It just says we'll do what we've already decided to do, eventually, one we've figured out how to do it.
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Surely a 'ditherer' doesn't make 'bold moves'?

    Interestingly neither the Sunday Times nor Sunday Mail appear to have big anti-May stories this week, unlike last......I wonder if they learned from their readers' responses.....?

    I'm not surprised at the record turn out to the Tory Conference - I suspect many members will feel May is 'one of us' - something they never really felt with Cameron (let alone Osborne) for all his political skill....

    On a wardrobe note, while the Mail story observes May at 60 (today) is the oldest PM since Thatcher, I don't recall Thatcher wearing skinny jeans:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3817450/Theresa-arrives-Birmingham-Tory-party-conference-Prime-Minister-police-blanket-city-2-5MILLION-security-operation.html

    May has lost a couple of stone, possibly more than that since developing type 1 diabetes (the LADA variant I think). She probably had no choice but to buy a new wardrobe. Even so she looks rather gaunt and skeletal.
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    edited October 2016
    ydoethur said:

    @Indigo

    His name is not McMao.

    It is Maodonnell.

    That sounds like the start of a song. But it obviously can't have a tune or meter as both are capitalist bourgeois constructs that we should never ever use.

    Old Maodonnell had a farm. But that was far too bourgeois for him, so he collectivised it with innumerable other farms. This meant they could sit around talking high matters of politics all day and throwing stones at the sparrows, as a result of which the crops failed and they all starved.

    Ee-I EE-I o.

    Old MaoDonnnell had a farm EIEIO
    And on that farm he had no pigs EIEIO
    Because it is a safe space for muslims EIEOO
    And on that farm he had no cows EIEIO
    Because the dairy industry is dependent on the veal trade EIEIO
    But on that farm he had an arms cache EIEIO
    To fight the British Imperialists EIEIO


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    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    ydoethur said:

    @Indigo

    His name is not McMao.

    It is Maodonnell.

    That sounds like the start of a song. But it obviously can't have a tune or meter as both are capitalist bourgeois constructs that we should never ever use.

    Old Maodonnell had a farm. But that was far too bourgeois for him, so he collectivised it with innumerable other farms. This meant they could sit around talking high matters of politics all day and throwing stones at the sparrows, as a result of which the crops failed and they all starved.

    Ee-I EE-I o.

    :smiley:
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    Paul_BedfordshirePaul_Bedfordshire Posts: 3,632
    edited October 2016
    Dromedary said:

    Why do you expect introducing the bill will coincide with invoking Article 50? What's the point in invoking Article 50 and then having the Commons, or indeed the Lords, vote the bill down?

    Meanwhile, Trump has now physically mocked how Clinton stumbled and collapsed on 11 September owing to pneumonia:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEmkIPfa6w8

    Last year he mocked a reporter's arthrogryposis:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqtoUFW5svQ

    He has also insulted those who suffer from super obesity, saying that the hacking into the DNC's computer, rather than being the work of Russian intelligence, might have been done by someone who weighs 400 pounds:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfVce4rELAY

    Does anyone who isn't a gun nut headbanger have a good reason to support this guy? C'mon, Trump surrogates with any sense of what makes and doesn't make a decent human being, withdraw your backing in an organised way and call for this casino-bankrupting, tax-avoiding, embargo-breaking billionaire to resign his candidacy.

    He is the absolute caricature of everything that neopuritan liberal do gooder sanctimonious politically correct types like Clintonn loathe with every fibre of their being.

    Which is why it will be so hilarious and good for democracy if he won. The people of the USA will have unequivocally given the finger to diversity and equality mongering safe spacing phobiaising multi culti taking offence hunting political correctness.

    Whether he will actually be any good is something to worry about later. At least he wont be poking the bear (putin) with a stick, which makes us all safer.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,472

    ydoethur said:

    @Indigo

    His name is not McMao.

    It is Maodonnell.

    That sounds like the start of a song. But it obviously can't have a tune or meter as both are capitalist bourgeois constructs that we should never ever use.

    Old Maodonnell had a farm. But that was far too bourgeois for him, so he collectivised it with innumerable other farms. This meant they could sit around talking high matters of politics all day and throwing stones at the sparrows, as a result of which the crops failed and they all starved.

    Ee-I EE-I o.

    Old MaoDonnnell had a farm EIEIO
    And on that farm he had no pigs EIEIO
    Because it is a safe space for muslims EIEOO
    And on that farm he had no cows EIEIO
    Because the dairy industry is dependent on the veal trade EIEIO
    But on that farm he had an arms cache EIEIO
    To fight the British Imperialists EIEIO


    *Claps*
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,971

    ydoethur said:

    @Indigo

    His name is not McMao.

    It is Maodonnell.

    That sounds like the start of a song. But it obviously can't have a tune or meter as both are capitalist bourgeois constructs that we should never ever use.

    Old Maodonnell had a farm. But that was far too bourgeois for him, so he collectivised it with innumerable other farms. This meant they could sit around talking high matters of politics all day and throwing stones at the sparrows, as a result of which the crops failed and they all starved.

    Ee-I EE-I o.

    Old MaoDonnnell had a farm EIEIO
    And on that farm he had no pigs EIEIO
    Because it is a safe space for muslims EIEOO
    And on that farm he had no cows EIEIO
    Because the dairy industry is dependent on the veal trade EIEIO
    But on that farm he had an arms cache EIEIO
    To fight the British Imperialists EIEIO
    Ha, brilliant! :D
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    Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664

    ydoethur said:

    @Indigo

    His name is not McMao.

    It is Maodonnell.

    That sounds like the start of a song. But it obviously can't have a tune or meter as both are capitalist bourgeois constructs that we should never ever use.

    Old Maodonnell had a farm. But that was far too bourgeois for him, so he collectivised it with innumerable other farms. This meant they could sit around talking high matters of politics all day and throwing stones at the sparrows, as a result of which the crops failed and they all starved.

    Ee-I EE-I o.

    Old MaoDonnnell had a farm EIEIO
    And on that farm he had no pigs EIEIO
    Because it is a safe space for muslims EIEOO
    And on that farm he had no cows EIEIO
    Because the dairy industry is dependent on the veal trade EIEIO
    But on that farm he had an arms cache EIEIO
    To fight the British Imperialists EIEIO


    :lol:
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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Frank Luntz
    Apparently, @WikiLeaks will release Hillary stuff on Wednesday.

    Tune into next week’s episode of America 2016! https://t.co/as9sWMOLPR
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,971
    PlatoSaid said:

    Frank Luntz
    Apparently, @WikiLeaks will release Hillary stuff on Wednesday.

    Tune into next week’s episode of America 2016! https://t.co/as9sWMOLPR

    They'd better actually have a smoking gun this time, after the number of times they've said they had something on Hillary. One assumes the email stuff isn't affecting her any more; evidence that she directly lied at the Benghazi hearings is about all I can think of that would sink her now.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,126
    PlatoSaid said:

    Frank Luntz
    Apparently, @WikiLeaks will release Hillary stuff on Wednesday.

    Tune into next week’s episode of America 2016! https://t.co/as9sWMOLPR

    It's amazing how WikiLeaks only leaks things about the US, and then only *certain* people in the US.

    It's almost as though they're not the great warrior for freedom and truth that they think they are ...
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    PlatoSaid said:

    Frank Luntz
    Apparently, @WikiLeaks will release Hillary stuff on Wednesday.

    Tune into next week’s episode of America 2016! https://t.co/as9sWMOLPR

    It's amazing how WikiLeaks only leaks things about the US, and then only *certain* people in the US.

    It's almost as though they're not the great warrior for freedom and truth that they think they are ...
    They leaked a bunch of Syria e-mails but accidentally left out one were Syrian officials discuss with a Russian bank moving vast quantities of cash out of the coubtry despite having all the other emails from that official on that day.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,005

    619 said:

    Dromedary said:

    Why do you expect introducing the bill will coincide with invoking Article 50? What's the point in invoking Article 50 and then having the Commons, or indeed the Lords, vote the bill down?

    Meanwhile, Trump has now physically mocked how Clinton stumbled and collapsed on 11 September owing to pneumonia:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEmkIPfa6w8

    Last year he mocked a reporter's arthrogryposis:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqtoUFW5svQ

    He has also insulted those who suffer from super obesity, saying that the hacking into the DNC's computer, rather than being the work of Russian intelligence, might have been done by someone who weighs 400 pounds:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfVce4rELAY

    Does anyone who isn't a gun nut headbanger have a good reason to support this guy? C'mon, Trump surrogates with any sense of what makes and doesn't make a decent human being, withdraw your backing in an organised way and call for this casino-bankrupting, tax-avoiding, embargo-breaking billionaire to resign his candidacy.

    anyone with any decency stopped supported him months ago. Its just scumbags now. Hopefully they are limited in number!
    With all due respect - that is the sort of 'thinking' that won the referendum for REMAIN.

    I think he's an obnoxious git - but he's tapped into the fears and concerns of those left behind by globalisation - and demonising them won't change their minds.
    I've come to the conclusion that for some political campaigners, the only thing that matters is feeling good about oneself, and demonising one's opponents. Actually winning the campaign is irrelevant, indeed, they will pursue strategies that are counter-productive to winning, so long as the principal objective can be pursued.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Dromedary said:

    Why do you expect introducing the bill will coincide with invoking Article 50? What's the point in invoking Article 50 and then having the Commons, or indeed the Lords, vote the bill down?

    Meanwhile, Trump has now physically mocked how Clinton stumbled and collapsed on 11 September owing to pneumonia:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEmkIPfa6w8

    Last year he mocked a reporter's arthrogryposis:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqtoUFW5svQ

    He has also insulted those who suffer from super obesity, saying that the hacking into the DNC's computer, rather than being the work of Russian intelligence, might have been done by someone who weighs 400 pounds:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfVce4rELAY

    Does anyone who isn't a gun nut headbanger have a good reason to support this guy? C'mon, Trump surrogates with any sense of what makes and doesn't make a decent human being, withdraw your backing in an organised way and call for this casino-bankrupting, tax-avoiding, embargo-breaking billionaire to resign his candidacy.

    He is the absolute caricature of everything that neopuritan liberal do gooder sanctimonious politically correct types like Clintonn loathe with every fibre of their being.

    Which is why it will be so hilarious and good for democracy if he won. The people of the USA will have unequivocally given the finger to diversity and equality mongering safe spacing phobiaising multi culti taking offence hunting political correctness.

    Whether he will actually be any good is something to worry about later. At least he wont be poking the bear (putin) with a stick, which makes us all safer.
    I dunno, it looks to me that the Trumps and Clintons were pretty chummy in these photos:

    http://www.people.com/article/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-wedding-photo

    Both will buy and sell in their own interests. Two peas in a pod.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,971
    edited October 2016

    Dromedary said:

    Why do you expect introducing the bill will coincide with invoking Article 50? What's the point in invoking Article 50 and then having the Commons, or indeed the Lords, vote the bill down?

    Meanwhile, Trump has now physically mocked how Clinton stumbled and collapsed on 11 September owing to pneumonia:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEmkIPfa6w8

    Last year he mocked a reporter's arthrogryposis:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqtoUFW5svQ

    He has also insulted those who suffer from super obesity, saying that the hacking into the DNC's computer, rather than being the work of Russian intelligence, might have been done by someone who weighs 400 pounds:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfVce4rELAY

    Does anyone who isn't a gun nut headbanger have a good reason to support this guy? C'mon, Trump surrogates with any sense of what makes and doesn't make a decent human being, withdraw your backing in an organised way and call for this casino-bankrupting, tax-avoiding, embargo-breaking billionaire to resign his candidacy.

    He is the absolute caricature of everything that neopuritan liberal do gooder sanctimonious politically correct types like Clintonn loathe with every fibre of their being.

    Which is why it will be so hilarious and good for democracy if he won. The people of the USA will have unequivocally given the finger to diversity and equality mongering safe spacing phobiaising multi culti taking offence hunting political correctness.

    Whether he will actually be any good is something to worry about later. At least he wont be poking the bear (putin) with a stick, which makes us all safer.
    Indeed. Calling his supporters deblorables and all the -isms isn't going to help attract floating voters either. Trump's an idiot but he is closer than the Hillary camp dare to admit.

    The question is whether the same type of voters who unusually turned out to vote for Brexit, also turn out to vote for Trump.
  • Options
    JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,400
    Scott_P said:

    @hugorifkind: The Great Repeal Bill is nonsense. It just says we'll do what we've already decided to do, eventually, one we've figured out how to do it.

    Yes, its a dead cat - gives the impression of progress and decision making without actually requiring any. Osborne would be proud of the game playing.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,126
    Alistair said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Frank Luntz
    Apparently, @WikiLeaks will release Hillary stuff on Wednesday.

    Tune into next week’s episode of America 2016! https://t.co/as9sWMOLPR

    It's amazing how WikiLeaks only leaks things about the US, and then only *certain* people in the US.

    It's almost as though they're not the great warrior for freedom and truth that they think they are ...
    They leaked a bunch of Syria e-mails but accidentally left out one were Syrian officials discuss with a Russian bank moving vast quantities of cash out of the coubtry despite having all the other emails from that official on that day.
    Amazing that.

    I'm very angry with WikiLeaks and the Guardian - they've put a member of my family in somewhat of a difficult position.

    Rusbridger and Leigh ought to be in jail over the 'accidental' publication of the password.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,472
    edited October 2016
    Sandpit said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Frank Luntz
    Apparently, @WikiLeaks will release Hillary stuff on Wednesday.

    Tune into next week’s episode of America 2016! https://t.co/as9sWMOLPR

    They'd better actually have a smoking gun this time, after the number of times they've said they had something on Hillary. One assumes the email stuff isn't affecting her any more; evidence that she directly lied at the Benghazi hearings is about all I can think of that would sink her now.
    I don't think that would make much difference either. Most people who are voting against her and even quite a few voting for her are already assuming she did.

    Something new and unambiguously criminal might impact the race, but it seems unlikely they have anything like that. While she's not exactly Einstein, she's not stupid and she knows the difference between dishonesty and criminality.

    Edit - the other thing I suppose might make a difference is if they have information that she is hiding a life-threatening illness. That would leave all those who hate her free to vote for in effect President Kaine. Assange of course wouldn't realise that, but it might deliver a Dem landslide!
  • Options
    ydoethur said:

    @Indigo

    His name is not McMao.

    It is Maodonnell.

    That sounds like the start of a song. But it obviously can't have a tune or meter as both are capitalist bourgeois constructs that we should never ever use.

    Old Maodonnell had a farm. But that was far too bourgeois for him, so he collectivised it with innumerable other farms. This meant they could sit around talking high matters of politics all day and throwing stones at the sparrows, as a result of which the crops failed and they all starved.

    Ee-I EE-I o.

    Isn't that Mugabe not Maodonnell?
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,088
    What happens if enough Tories vote against or rebel so that the GRB is defeated in the Commons?
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,005

    Keegan's lost the plot:

    Only 37% voted for a hard Brexit. For what does leaving the EU mean other than a hard Brexit? .....

    I bet that a fair proportion of the 37% did not appreciate the implications of what they were doing. ......

    How can a nation such as ours be so stupid? To coin a phrase, we need our country back. Our sovereign parliament must veto this absurd and self-destructive policy.


    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/oct/02/corbynistas-may-have-majority-but-brexiters-dont?utm_term=Autofeed&CMP=twt_a-politics_b-gdnukpolitics

    For such an intelligent man, Keegan has remarkable difficulty understanding our electoral process.

    Non-voters, and children, don't count towards the outcome.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,472
    Alistair said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Frank Luntz
    Apparently, @WikiLeaks will release Hillary stuff on Wednesday.

    Tune into next week’s episode of America 2016! https://t.co/as9sWMOLPR

    It's amazing how WikiLeaks only leaks things about the US, and then only *certain* people in the US.

    It's almost as though they're not the great warrior for freedom and truth that they think they are ...
    They leaked a bunch of Syria e-mails but accidentally left out one were Syrian officials discuss with a Russian bank moving vast quantities of cash out of the coubtry despite having all the other emails from that official on that day.
    Yes, it's very strange. Anyone would think it was an organisation run by a narcissistic fugitive hiding in a fascist dictatorship and bankrolled by those who are trying to manipulate the international economy to enrich themselves.
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,634

    What happens if enough Tories vote against or rebel so that the GRB is defeated in the Commons?

    Who knows, but it seems very unlikely. The hardliners seem to support the move.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,472
    edited October 2016

    ydoethur said:

    @Indigo

    His name is not McMao.

    It is Maodonnell.

    That sounds like the start of a song. But it obviously can't have a tune or meter as both are capitalist bourgeois constructs that we should never ever use.

    Old Maodonnell had a farm. But that was far too bourgeois for him, so he collectivised it with innumerable other farms. This meant they could sit around talking high matters of politics all day and throwing stones at the sparrows, as a result of which the crops failed and they all starved.

    Ee-I EE-I o.

    Isn't that Mugabe not Maodonnell?
    Mugabe didn't collectivise, he went on a land grab. I was thinking of Mao's disastrous collectivisation drive in the 1950s, which coupled with his anti-pest (sparrowcide) campaign and an unfortunate drought led to the deaths of around 60 million people.

    But Dr Foxinsoxuk absolutely owned me on the lyrics front!
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,971

    Alistair said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Frank Luntz
    Apparently, @WikiLeaks will release Hillary stuff on Wednesday.

    Tune into next week’s episode of America 2016! https://t.co/as9sWMOLPR

    It's amazing how WikiLeaks only leaks things about the US, and then only *certain* people in the US.

    It's almost as though they're not the great warrior for freedom and truth that they think they are ...
    They leaked a bunch of Syria e-mails but accidentally left out one were Syrian officials discuss with a Russian bank moving vast quantities of cash out of the coubtry despite having all the other emails from that official on that day.
    Amazing that.

    I'm very angry with WikiLeaks and the Guardian - they've put a member of my family in somewhat of a difficult position.

    Rusbridger and Leigh ought to be in jail over the 'accidental' publication of the password.
    Yes, those who published the password should be held accountable. Those who had the files made a good effort to run them through a journalistic process so as not to put anyone at risk. That those journalists then published the master password to the data dump is what actually exposed people.
  • Options
    MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,237

    Dromedary said:

    Why do you expect introducing the bill will coincide with invoking Article 50? What's the point in invoking Article 50 and then having the Commons, or indeed the Lords, vote the bill down?

    Meanwhile, Trump has now physically mocked how Clinton stumbled and collapsed on 11 September owing to pneumonia:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEmkIPfa6w8

    Last year he mocked a reporter's arthrogryposis:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqtoUFW5svQ

    He has also insulted those who suffer from super obesity, saying that the hacking into the DNC's computer, rather than being the work of Russian intelligence, might have been done by someone who weighs 400 pounds:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfVce4rELAY

    Does anyone who isn't a gun nut headbanger have a good reason to support this guy? C'mon, Trump surrogates with any sense of what makes and doesn't make a decent human being, withdraw your backing in an organised way and call for this casino-bankrupting, tax-avoiding, embargo-breaking billionaire to resign his candidacy.

    He is the absolute caricature of everything that neopuritan liberal do gooder sanctimonious politically correct types like Clintonn loathe with every fibre of their being.

    Which is why it will be so hilarious and good for democracy if he won. The people of the USA will have unequivocally given the finger to diversity and equality mongering safe spacing phobiaising multi culti taking offence hunting political correctness.

    Whether he will actually be any good is something to worry about later. At least he wont be poking the bear (putin) with a stick, which makes us all safer.
    OK Paul, I get that you hate sanctimonious do gooder liberal stuff etc. But in reality much of that stuff is what I call simple respect for fellow human beings. I'm really interested in where you draw the line? What is the difference between sanctimonious do goodery and respect for fellow humans? Where does casual discrimination become unacceptable? Because the likes of Trump are taking us towards those boundaries and people like you are cheering it.

    Is it fire up the quattro, back to the 70s! Or fire up the gas ovens, back to the 40s? Because it seems to me that once you're on it it's a mightily slippery slope.
  • Options
    Paul_BedfordshirePaul_Bedfordshire Posts: 3,632
    edited October 2016

    Dromedary said:

    Why do you expect introducing the bill will coincide with invoking Article 50? What's the point in invoking Article 50 and then having the Commons, or indeed the Lords, vote the bill down?


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEmkIPfa6w8

    Last year he mocked a reporter's arthrogryposis:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqtoUFW5svQ

    He has also insulted those who suffer from super obesity, saying that the hacking into the DNC's computer, rather than being the work of Russian intelligence, might have been done by someone who weighs 400 pounds:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfVce4rELAY

    Does anyone who isn't a gun nut headbanger have a good reason to support this guy? C'mon, Trump surrogates with any sense of what makes and doesn't make a decent human being, withdraw your backing in an organised way and call for this casino-bankrupting, tax-avoiding, embargo-breaking billionaire to resign his candidacy.

    He is the absolute caricature of everything that neopuritan liberal do gooder sanctimonious politically correct types like Clintonn loathe with every fibre of their being.

    Which is why it will be so hilarious and good for democracy if he won. The people of the USA will have unequivocally given the finger to diversity and equality mongering safe spacing phobiaising multi culti taking offence hunting political correctness.

    Whether he will actually be any good is something to worry about later. At least he wont be poking the bear (putin) with a stick, which makes us all safer.
    I dunno, it looks to me that the Trumps and Clintons were pretty chummy in these photos:

    http://www.people.com/article/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-wedding-photo

    Both will buy and sell in their own interests. Two peas in a pod.
    If Trump wins, it will be because of this sort of thing.

    "BBC sacked me for being a white man... even though I work in radio: The Now Show comic was told he was being axed to make way for more women and diversity"

    http://dailym.ai/2dFlTEU.

    Ordinary working and lower middle class white people and Christians on both side of the atlantic (and not a few people of colour are unsympathetic) who in general have always been some of the most tolerant people in the world....

    ...are sick to the back teeth of being slandered and monstered, having to be careful what they say lest they utter a forbidden word....

    By corrupt progressives who want to impose an equality in the outcome that leaves them in the driving seat as the arbiters of that equality.

    Farage is a bit of a tit, Trump is an arsehole, however you dont fill a trebuchet with fragrant flowers when you send it over the enemy cities walls, you fill it with diseased filth because diseased filth will do the job.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 59,018

    What happens if enough Tories vote against or rebel so that the GRB is defeated in the Commons?

    I wondered this last night, one response was a general election.
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,211
    Sandpit said:

    Alistair said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Frank Luntz
    Apparently, @WikiLeaks will release Hillary stuff on Wednesday.

    Tune into next week’s episode of America 2016! https://t.co/as9sWMOLPR

    It's amazing how WikiLeaks only leaks things about the US, and then only *certain* people in the US.

    It's almost as though they're not the great warrior for freedom and truth that they think they are ...
    They leaked a bunch of Syria e-mails but accidentally left out one were Syrian officials discuss with a Russian bank moving vast quantities of cash out of the coubtry despite having all the other emails from that official on that day.
    Amazing that.

    I'm very angry with WikiLeaks and the Guardian - they've put a member of my family in somewhat of a difficult position.

    Rusbridger and Leigh ought to be in jail over the 'accidental' publication of the password.
    Yes, those who published the password should be held accountable. Those who had the files made a good effort to run them through a journalistic process so as not to put anyone at risk. That those journalists then published the master password to the data dump is what actually exposed people.
    It's interesting that a few years ago the Left and the Guardian were in love with Assange and Wikileaks. Not so much these days.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 59,018
    JonathanD said:

    Scott_P said:

    @hugorifkind: The Great Repeal Bill is nonsense. It just says we'll do what we've already decided to do, eventually, one we've figured out how to do it.

    Yes, its a dead cat - gives the impression of progress and decision making without actually requiring any. Osborne would be proud of the game playing.
    Actually, no. We could have gone down the route of reviewing every piece of EU law in the next two years. This announcement has made it clear we aren't going to do that, instead EU law is simply to be transposed into UK law.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,971
    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Frank Luntz
    Apparently, @WikiLeaks will release Hillary stuff on Wednesday.

    Tune into next week’s episode of America 2016! https://t.co/as9sWMOLPR

    They'd better actually have a smoking gun this time, after the number of times they've said they had something on Hillary. One assumes the email stuff isn't affecting her any more; evidence that she directly lied at the Benghazi hearings is about all I can think of that would sink her now.
    I don't think that would make much difference either. Most people who are voting against her and even quite a few voting for her are already assuming she did.

    Something new and unambiguously criminal might impact the race, but it seems unlikely they have anything like that. While she's not exactly Einstein, she's not stupid and she knows the difference between dishonesty and criminality.

    Edit - the other thing I suppose might make a difference is if they have information that she is hiding a life-threatening illness. That would leave all those who hate her free to vote for in effect President Kaine. Assange of course wouldn't realise that, but it might deliver a Dem landslide!
    Yes, to materially affect Hillary now it would have to be evidence of a very direct lie, something that she explicitly denied at the hearings that made her complicit in the attack.

    As you suggest, evidence that she's got months to live might ironically help her out, if people think she'll quickly make way for Kaine.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,126
    Sandpit said:

    Alistair said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Frank Luntz
    Apparently, @WikiLeaks will release Hillary stuff on Wednesday.

    Tune into next week’s episode of America 2016! https://t.co/as9sWMOLPR

    It's amazing how WikiLeaks only leaks things about the US, and then only *certain* people in the US.

    It's almost as though they're not the great warrior for freedom and truth that they think they are ...
    They leaked a bunch of Syria e-mails but accidentally left out one were Syrian officials discuss with a Russian bank moving vast quantities of cash out of the coubtry despite having all the other emails from that official on that day.
    Amazing that.

    I'm very angry with WikiLeaks and the Guardian - they've put a member of my family in somewhat of a difficult position.

    Rusbridger and Leigh ought to be in jail over the 'accidental' publication of the password.
    Yes, those who published the password should be held accountable. Those who had the files made a good effort to run them through a journalistic process so as not to put anyone at risk. That those journalists then published the master password to the data dump is what actually exposed people.
    I think it was deliberate and pre-arranged. Can't prove it, though. :)

    At the very least it was gross incompetence.
This discussion has been closed.