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The trickle is turning into a flood.Scott_P said:@TelePolitics: Millionaire Ukip donor Paul Sykes announces plans to defect to Tories following Brexit telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/2…
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Well he did take a Labour seat and turn it into one of the safest Tory seats in the country.TheScreamingEagles said:
Remember before Dave, Witney had a Labour MP.RobD said:
Only decent? Has Islam lost his marbles?Scott_P said:@faisalislam: Congratulations to barrister @robertcourts the new Conservative PPC for Witney - decent chance of becoming an MP
People forget and underestimate the awesomeness of Dave.0 -
The first part of the video's worth watch for an exquisite demonstration of Guardianista sneering at small-town Americans.TheScreamingEagles said:I assume the PB African American Rampers for Trump have been spamming posting this on PB?
Trump campaign chair in Ohio resigns over ‘no racism before Obama' remarks
Kathy Miller, chair in a crucial Ohio county, resigned after the Guardian released video of her saying, ‘It’s their own fault’ if black people haven’t succeeded
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/sep/22/trump-campaign-chair-kathy-miller-resigns-ohio-racism-obama0 -
I suspect that Labour have worked out that only the Tories have any political interest in the economic side turning out well, whereas if the reverse occurs there will be a lot of dissatisfied voters around. Thus from their narrow self interest (which sadly is how Labour generally views things) they may as well try and align with those concerned about freedom of movement, leaving the Tories to pick up the tab for any economic cost.YellowSubmarine said:The move by a series of ambitious Blairite and modernisers curled with today's Sennedd vote suggests Labour is converging on May's ' immigration control first ' negotiating strategy.This is doubtless after a Summer talking to constituents in big Leave areas and realising voters won't budge now there world view has been validated in a national referendum. So the tiny chance of us remaining a member of the Single Market vanishes entirely. To the best of my knowledge no advanced, consumerist democracy has ever deliberately chosen to be slightly but permanently poorer before to further a noneconomic goal. The nearest but inexact comparison would be the catastrophic occupations of Afghanistan and Iraq. Neither is a happy precident. This is going to be interesting as they say.
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That would be re-re-re-defect, he's being doing the hokey cokey ever since Maggie's dayScott_P said:@TelePolitics: Millionaire Ukip donor Paul Sykes announces plans to defect to Tories following Brexit telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/2…
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Not Aaron Banks thoughMP_SE said:
The trickle is turning into a flood.Scott_P said:@TelePolitics: Millionaire Ukip donor Paul Sykes announces plans to defect to Tories following Brexit telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/2…
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Maybe but have just checked and no coverage of it on either the ABC news or Fox websiteTheScreamingEagles said:I assume the PB African American Rampers for Trump have been spamming posting this on PB?
Trump campaign chair in Ohio resigns over ‘no racism before Obama' remarks
Kathy Miller, chair in a crucial Ohio county, resigned after the Guardian released video of her saying, ‘It’s their own fault’ if black people haven’t succeeded
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/sep/22/trump-campaign-chair-kathy-miller-resigns-ohio-racism-obama0 -
Maybe he's a prescient prat.foxinsoxuk said:0 -
Talking about free movement...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-37442328
Two Belgian policemen have been questioned by their French counterparts after they were caught with 13 illegal immigrants in their car.
The officers said they felt sorry for the migrants, who were found in a lorry in Belgium, and offered to give them a lift to the border.
But they strayed into France, where they were arrested and questioned.0 -
This is genuinely difficult and complicated stuff, one of the reasons I think we need people like Osborne and Gove helping out. We may even need the help of the Nick Cleggs of this world or the Ed Balls. A cross party approach would be better than a sectional interest. This is way too important to have anything other than our best team on. The 3 Brexiteers seem way short of the mark. I think this can be better for us but only if we do it right.YellowSubmarine said:
I agree with your analysis. I'm extremely gloomy that a protectionist and insular event like the Leave vote will translate into a burst of freer trade with the rest of the world. I'm as certain as I can be that even if I'm wrong on point one that Leaverstan will be devastated by turbo charged globalisation after having voted against Free Range European globalisation. But you are right about my assumptions and I agree with your analysis of the trade offs at play.DavidL said:
There are a number of assumptions built into your post which may or may not be vindicated in due course.YellowSubmarine said:The move by a series of ambitious Blairite and modernisers curled with today's Sennedd vote suggests Labour is converging on May's ' immigration control first ' negotiating strategy.This is doubtless after a Summer talking to constituents in big Leave areas and realising voters won't budge now there world view has been validated in a national referendum. So the tiny chance of us remaining a member of the Single Market vanishes entirely. To the best of my knowledge no advanced, consumerist democracy has ever deliberately chosen to be slightly but permanently poorer before to further a noneconomic goal. The nearest but inexact comparison would be the catastrophic occupations of Afghanistan and Iraq. Neither is a happy precident. This is going to be interesting as they say.
Membership of the single market requires membership of the customs union of the EU which in turn presumes a waiver of our right to negotiate trade deals with the rest of the world independently.
It may be that that is a good trade off for the U.K. but it is by no means assured. It depends upon a trade off between EU trade and world trade. EU trade is the smaller proportion of our trade already and the trends are not in its favour.
If the price of membership of the single market is open boundaries it is not a price the majority are willing to pay. Turning down membership of the single market does not mean turning down free trade with it although I accept it will be less free involving customs costs such as proof of origin of UK goods. If that is the price of control of free movement then we simply have to hope that the opportunities of negotiating our own trade will set off any marginal loss arising from marginal cost in our trade with the EU.0 -
"Crispin Odey loses 20% for second time in a year" FT 20/3/16MP_SE said:
Crispin Odeytlg86 said:Blimey, who's this bloke on the referendum documentary who made a fortune?!
https://www.ft.com/content/cfb83fcc-ed23-11e5-bb79-2303682345c8
So possibly just making up lost ground0 -
The genie is out of the bottle. Once elections are about identity and blaming abstract ' others ' rather than philosophy and policy choices who knows who gets blamed next ? I suspect Labour MP's know it could be them. In 2020 and 2025 we could see many passionate Remain backing Labour MP's loosing their seats as Leaverstan voters blame them for Brexit having changed nothing about their lives save even bigger public spending cuts.IanB2 said:
I suspect that Labour have worked out that only the Tories have any political interest in the economic side turning out well, whereas if the reverse occurs there will be a lot of dissatisfied voters around. Thus from their narrow self interest (which sadly is how Labour generally views things) they may as well try and align with those concerned about freedom of movement, leaving the Tories to pick up the tab for any economic cost.YellowSubmarine said:The move by a series of ambitious Blairite and modernisers curled with today's Sennedd vote suggests Labour is converging on May's ' immigration control first ' negotiating strategy.This is doubtless after a Summer talking to constituents in big Leave areas and realising voters won't budge now there world view has been validated in a national referendum. So the tiny chance of us remaining a member of the Single Market vanishes entirely. To the best of my knowledge no advanced, consumerist democracy has ever deliberately chosen to be slightly but permanently poorer before to further a noneconomic goal. The nearest but inexact comparison would be the catastrophic occupations of Afghanistan and Iraq. Neither is a happy precident. This is going to be interesting as they say.
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What's the phrase, correlation does not imply causation?
'Post-Brexit racism: The truth of hate crime boom after Leave vote and the telling area where incidents fell'
http://tinyurl.com/h36ppeh0 -
I don't know...maybe I am a dick? I really don't know....what I do know is that the kind of childish insults people have thrown at me on this site, I haven't encountered since I was at primary school, or even before. Possibly a reason why I continue to post here anonymously.Casino_Royale said:
Yes, but you are also a bit of a dick yourself, aren't you?tyson said:
The problem is Casino, as we will see with Corbyn's election...is that the numbers do not stack up. There are too many morons..as with Brexit. Because a vote is won doesn't make it right.Casino_Royale said:
Thank you for reinforcing my point.tyson said:
What are people who are culturally literate, creative, intelligent, vibrant, open minded to do? Just not say anything.Casino_Royale said:
Jesus. Don't they ever learn?Pulpstar said:I see a load of Hollywood actors have done a Democrat vid.
Another shade of Brexit...
Or should they all sink to the murky, populist, nihilistic, lowest common denominator, ill educated, nasty crowd and cheer on lying morons.. and join the likes of.Brexit, Trump, Le Pen, Climate change conspiracists and their horrible, horrible ilk.......
It's a difficult time at the minute for a passionate liberal, open minded, human rights, internationalist, collective advocate like myself..the tide is against me. But I know that ultimately the tide will come back, and the nasty, xenophobic, lowest common denominator crap that is pervading modern politics will be washed down the toilet of history where it belongs, and where it has been washed down before...
I've always thought that your biggest problem is that there is a part of yourself you really don't like.
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I know you have to treat the Daily Express as the ultimate Brexit paper but they are reporting Developing Countries and others are losing interest in trade deals with the EU on UK's exit. Very interesting if true and when you think about it it does make sense0
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Yeah. That would be correct.Casino_Royale said:
Maybe he's a prescient prat.foxinsoxuk said:0 -
The President of the Philippines also told the EU to 'F*** Off!' only yesterdayBig_G_NorthWales said:I know you have to treat the Daily Express as the ultimate Brexit paper but they are reporting Developing Countries and others are losing interest in trade deals with the EU on UK's exit. Very interesting if true and when you think about it it does make sense
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/712818/F-you-EU-Philippines-president-blasts-Brussels-over-anti-crime-killings0 -
You dish it out but you can't take it. You've called me far worse before, and deeply personal too. Ergo, you are a bit of a dick.tyson said:
I don't know...maybe I am a dick? I really don't know....what I do know is that the kind of childish insults people have thrown at me on this site, I haven't encountered since I was at primary school, or even before. Possibly a reason why I continue to post here anonymously.Casino_Royale said:
Yes, but you are also a bit of a dick yourself, aren't you?tyson said:
The problem is Casino, as we will see with Corbyn's election...is that the numbers do not stack up. There are too many morons..as with Brexit. Because a vote is won doesn't make it right.Casino_Royale said:
Thank you for reinforcing my point.tyson said:
What are people who are culturally literate, creative, intelligent, vibrant, open minded to do? Just not say anything.Casino_Royale said:
Jesus. Don't they ever learn?Pulpstar said:I see a load of Hollywood actors have done a Democrat vid.
Another shade of Brexit...
Or should they all sink to the murky, populist, nihilistic, lowest common denominator, ill educated, nasty crowd and cheer on lying morons.. and join the likes of.Brexit, Trump, Le Pen, Climate change conspiracists and their horrible, horrible ilk.......
It's a difficult time at the minute for a passionate liberal, open minded, human rights, internationalist, collective advocate like myself..the tide is against me. But I know that ultimately the tide will come back, and the nasty, xenophobic, lowest common denominator crap that is pervading modern politics will be washed down the toilet of history where it belongs, and where it has been washed down before...
I've always thought that your biggest problem is that there is a part of yourself you really don't like.
I think you're quite a damaged and guilt-ridden individual.
On the other hand, I think you and I would have a very interesting and revealing evening over a couple of bottles of Rioja together, and I think we'd both enjoy it too.0 -
I've met you both and Tyson, you'd get on great.Casino_Royale said:
You dish it out but you can't take it. You've called me far worse before, and deeply personal too. Ergo, you are a bit of a dick.tyson said:
I don't know...maybe I am a dick? I really don't know....what I do know is that the kind of childish insults people have thrown at me on this site, I haven't encountered since I was at primary school, or even before. Possibly a reason why I continue to post here anonymously.Casino_Royale said:
Yes, but you are also a bit of a dick yourself, aren't you?tyson said:
The problem is Casino, as we will see with Corbyn's election...is that the numbers do not stack up. There are too many morons..as with Brexit. Because a vote is won doesn't make it right.Casino_Royale said:
Thank you for reinforcing my point.tyson said:
What are people who are culturally literate, creative, intelligent, vibrant, open minded to do? Just not say anything.Casino_Royale said:
Jesus. Don't they ever learn?Pulpstar said:I see a load of Hollywood actors have done a Democrat vid.
Another shade of Brexit...
Or should they all sink to the murky, populist, nihilistic, lowest common denominator, ill educated, nasty crowd and cheer on lying morons.. and join the likes of.Brexit, Trump, Le Pen, Climate change conspiracists and their horrible, horrible ilk.......
It's a difficult time at the minute for a passionate liberal, open minded, human rights, internationalist, collective advocate like myself..the tide is against me. But I know that ultimately the tide will come back, and the nasty, xenophobic, lowest common denominator crap that is pervading modern politics will be washed down the toilet of history where it belongs, and where it has been washed down before...
I've always thought that your biggest problem is that there is a part of yourself you really don't like.
I think your quite a damaged and guilt-ridden individual.
On the other hand, I think you and I would have a very interesting evening over a couple of bottles of Rioja together, and I think we'd both enjoy it too.0 -
I think you will find that you invariably start it. But you are right, responding in kind is childish and I shall in future ignore you.tyson said:
I don't know...maybe I am a dick? I really don't know....what I do know is that the kind of childish insults people have thrown at me on this site, I haven't encountered since I was at primary school, or even before. Possibly a reason why I continue to post here anonymously.Casino_Royale said:
Yes, but you are also a bit of a dick yourself, aren't you?tyson said:
The problem is Casino, as we will see with Corbyn's election...is that the numbers do not stack up. There are too many morons..as with Brexit. Because a vote is won doesn't make it right.Casino_Royale said:
Thank you for reinforcing my point.tyson said:
What are people who are culturally literate, creative, intelligent, vibrant, open minded to do? Just not say anything.Casino_Royale said:
Jesus. Don't they ever learn?Pulpstar said:I see a load of Hollywood actors have done a Democrat vid.
Another shade of Brexit...
Or should they all sink to the murky, populist, nihilistic, lowest common denominator, ill educated, nasty crowd and cheer on lying morons.. and join the likes of.Brexit, Trump, Le Pen, Climate change conspiracists and their horrible, horrible ilk.......
It's a difficult time at the minute for a passionate liberal, open minded, human rights, internationalist, collective advocate like myself..the tide is against me. But I know that ultimately the tide will come back, and the nasty, xenophobic, lowest common denominator crap that is pervading modern politics will be washed down the toilet of history where it belongs, and where it has been washed down before...
I've always thought that your biggest problem is that there is a part of yourself you really don't like.
Whatever your problem is, self-medicating with cheap Chianti is not the solution to it.0 -
We’re extremely short of barristers in Parliament, so it is a relief that the Tory party are augmenting their number.Scott_P said:@faisalislam: Congratulations to barrister @robertcourts the new Conservative PPC for Witney - decent chance of becoming an MP
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BBC2 programme ends with a Farage warning on Leave voters 'If they betray those people you ain't seen nothing yet'. Unless May takes the UK fully out of the single market, ends free movement and immigration falls significantly UKIP will be right on her back in 2020 it seems0
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We are short of councillors who bring something to parliament, rather than PPE, SPAD, MP, so a good choice.YBarddCwsc said:
We’re extremely short of barristers in Parliament, so it is a relief that the Tory party are augmenting their number.Scott_P said:@faisalislam: Congratulations to barrister @robertcourts the new Conservative PPC for Witney - decent chance of becoming an MP
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I once trailed all the way from Edinburgh to Manchester for a PB meet up and had the privilege and pleasure of meeting TSE, Nick, Big John Owls and a slightly strange Jewish chap. The fact is we all have way more in common than we do with 99% of those we meet in our everyday lives. We find politics interesting, we care about the common good and we genuinely think what we think matters a damn. It's great. Thank you to OGH and all those who contribute below the line. My life would be a lot duller without it.0
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So we are joining the Third world? Or at least Leaverstan is....Big_G_NorthWales said:I know you have to treat the Daily Express as the ultimate Brexit paper but they are reporting Developing Countries and others are losing interest in trade deals with the EU on UK's exit. Very interesting if true and when you think about it it does make sense
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http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2016/09/22/hillary_clinton_why_arent_i_50_points_ahead.html
Hillary tries to inject some passion - "'Why aren't I 50 points ahead,' you might ask."0 -
Both Boeing and Airbus have been subsidised to the tune of billions by the US and the EU. Boeing even boasts in investor meetings about the R&D with for the DoD that "offers synergies" with their civil business.RobD said:0 -
If the LDs are a long way off 2nd then this "fightback" claim is bust. Question is what range of performaces would equate to various conclusions?Black_Rook said:FPT - Mike Smithson suggests Lib Dems are under most pressure to perform in Witney, but I'm not so sure. They have been polling 8% nationally for years, so if they do badly again it will be no worse than expected. Labour, on the other hand, bagged nearly 20% of the vote last year. It will be interesting to see if they shed votes, and if they do where these votes end up......
1st = major gain for LDs
2nd = LD claim fightback underway
3rd = No fightback
4th or deposit lost = crisis for Farron.
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Because you are a lying crooked bitch? Just a suggestion.williamglenn said:http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2016/09/22/hillary_clinton_why_arent_i_50_points_ahead.html
Hillary tries to inject some passion - "'Why aren't I 50 points ahead,' you might ask."0 -
That's not true: turkey is a member of the customs union but not the single market; Norway of the single market but not the customs union.DavidL said:
There are a number of assumptions built into your post which may or may not be vindicated in due course.YellowSubmarine said:The move by a series of ambitious Blairite and modernisers curled with today's Sennedd vote suggests Labour is converging on May's ' immigration control first ' negotiating strategy.This is doubtless after a Summer talking to constituents in big Leave areas and realising voters won't budge now there world view has been validated in a national referendum. So the tiny chance of us remaining a member of the Single Market vanishes entirely. To the best of my knowledge no advanced, consumerist democracy has ever deliberately chosen to be slightly but permanently poorer before to further a noneconomic goal. The nearest but inexact comparison would be the catastrophic occupations of Afghanistan and Iraq. Neither is a happy precident. This is going to be interesting as they say.
Membership of the single market requires membership of the customs union of the EU which in turn presumes a waiver of our right to negotiate trade deals with the rest of the world independently.
It may be that that is a good trade off for the U.K. but it is by no means assured. It depends upon a trade off between EU trade and world trade. EU trade is the smaller proportion of our trade already and the trends are not in its favour.
If the price of membership of the single market is open boundaries it is not a price the majority are willing to pay. Turning down membership of the single market does not mean turning down free trade with it although I accept it will be less free involving customs costs such as proof of origin of UK goods. If that is the price of control of free movement then we simply have to hope that the opportunities of negotiating our own trade will set off any marginal loss arising from marginal cost in our trade with the EU.0 -
Is this your entry into the 'how much casual racism can the average public sector leftie fit into one line?' competition?foxinsoxuk said:
So we are joining the Third world? Or at least Leaverstan is....Big_G_NorthWales said:I know you have to treat the Daily Express as the ultimate Brexit paper but they are reporting Developing Countries and others are losing interest in trade deals with the EU on UK's exit. Very interesting if true and when you think about it it does make sense
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1st=Up is now down, black is now white, the universe is endingTCPoliticalBetting said:
If the LDs are a long way off 2nd then this "fightback" claim is bust. Question is what range of performaces would equate to various conclusions?Black_Rook said:FPT - Mike Smithson suggests Lib Dems are under most pressure to perform in Witney, but I'm not so sure. They have been polling 8% nationally for years, so if they do badly again it will be no worse than expected. Labour, on the other hand, bagged nearly 20% of the vote last year. It will be interesting to see if they shed votes, and if they do where these votes end up......
1st = major gain for LDs
2nd = LD claim fightback underway
3rd = No fightback
4th or deposit lost = crisis for Farron.
2nd= the LD fight back is real
3rd=no fightback
4th=oh sh*t, they found a way to go backwards0 -
I think they'll manage 2, simply because Witney is about as far from Momentum territory as I'd possible.TCPoliticalBetting said:
If the LDs are a long way off 2nd then this "fightback" claim is bust. Question is what range of performaces would equate to various conclusions?Black_Rook said:FPT - Mike Smithson suggests Lib Dems are under most pressure to perform in Witney, but I'm not so sure. They have been polling 8% nationally for years, so if they do badly again it will be no worse than expected. Labour, on the other hand, bagged nearly 20% of the vote last year. It will be interesting to see if they shed votes, and if they do where these votes end up......
1st = major gain for LDs
2nd = LD claim fightback underway
3rd = No fightback
4th or deposit lost = crisis for Farron.0 -
Hasn't he told almost everyone to f off..HYUFD said:
The President of the Philippines also told the EU to 'F*** Off!' only yesterdayBig_G_NorthWales said:I know you have to treat the Daily Express as the ultimate Brexit paper but they are reporting Developing Countries and others are losing interest in trade deals with the EU on UK's exit. Very interesting if true and when you think about it it does make sense
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/712818/F-you-EU-Philippines-president-blasts-Brussels-over-anti-crime-killings
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Not sure who Leaverstan is but the point is we are joining the World - all of it and on our terms not some unelected out of touch elite who are heading for the dustbin of historyfoxinsoxuk said:
So we are joining the Third world? Or at least Leaverstan is....Big_G_NorthWales said:I know you have to treat the Daily Express as the ultimate Brexit paper but they are reporting Developing Countries and others are losing interest in trade deals with the EU on UK's exit. Very interesting if true and when you think about it it does make sense
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Anonymously is best in any case, but in terms of insults you certainly have faced a great many, more than I could stomach, but I'd assumed you'd wanted them - the shadow you decry is also the one you cast.tyson said:
I don't know...maybe I am a dick? I really don't know....what I do know is that the kind of childish insults people have thrown at me on this site, I haven't encountered since I was at primary school, or even before. Possibly a reason why I continue to post here anonymously.Casino_Royale said:
Yes, but you are also a bit of a dick yourself, aren't you?tyson said:
The problem is Casino, as we will see with Corbyn's election...is that the numbers do not stack up. There are too many morons..as with Brexit. Because a vote is won doesn't make it right.Casino_Royale said:
Thank you for reinforcing my point.tyson said:
What are people who are culturally literate, creative, intelligent, vibrant, open minded to do? Just not say anything.Casino_Royale said:
Jesus. Don't they ever learn?Pulpstar said:I see a load of Hollywood actors have done a Democrat vid.
Another shade of Brexit...
Or should they all sink to the murky, populist, nihilistic, lowest common denominator, ill educated, nasty crowd and cheer on lying morons.. and join the likes of.Brexit, Trump, Le Pen, Climate change conspiracists and their horrible, horrible ilk.......
It's a difficult time at the minute for a passionate liberal, open minded, human rights, internationalist, collective advocate like myself..the tide is against me. But I know that ultimately the tide will come back, and the nasty, xenophobic, lowest common denominator crap that is pervading modern politics will be washed down the toilet of history where it belongs, and where it has been washed down before...
I've always thought that your biggest problem is that there is a part of yourself you really don't like.
I very much hope you continue to passionately put forth your views, variety is the spice of life.0 -
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Unfortunately he's not really the type whose comments bring me cheer, even if normally such a sentiment the view expressed might.HYUFD said:
The President of the Philippines also told the EU to 'F*** Off!' only yesterdayBig_G_NorthWales said:I know you have to treat the Daily Express as the ultimate Brexit paper but they are reporting Developing Countries and others are losing interest in trade deals with the EU on UK's exit. Very interesting if true and when you think about it it does make sense
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/712818/F-you-EU-Philippines-president-blasts-Brussels-over-anti-crime-killings0 -
Delusions of adequacy.DavidL said:
Because you are a lying crooked bitch? Just a suggestion.williamglenn said:http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2016/09/22/hillary_clinton_why_arent_i_50_points_ahead.html
Hillary tries to inject some passion - "'Why aren't I 50 points ahead,' you might ask."0 -
Really? How can you be a part of the single market and not the customs union? That makes no sense to me. A free trade agreement between the EU and someone is of course possible but Norway accept the consequences I have described. They are bound by single market laws and cannot negotiate independent trade deals. I think.rcs1000 said:
That's not true: turkey is a member of the customs union but not the single market; Norway of the single market but not the customs union.DavidL said:
There are a number of assumptions built into your post which may or may not be vindicated in due course.YellowSubmarine said:The move by a series of ambitious Blairite and modernisers curled with today's Sennedd vote suggests Labour is converging on May's ' immigration control first ' negotiating strategy.This is doubtless after a Summer talking to constituents in big Leave areas and realising voters won't budge now there world view has been validated in a national referendum. So the tiny chance of us remaining a member of the Single Market vanishes entirely. To the best of my knowledge no advanced, consumerist democracy has ever deliberately chosen to be slightly but permanently poorer before to further a noneconomic goal. The nearest but inexact comparison would be the catastrophic occupations of Afghanistan and Iraq. Neither is a happy precident. This is going to be interesting as they say.
Membership of the single market requires membership of the customs union of the EU which in turn presumes a waiver of our right to negotiate trade deals with the rest of the world independently.
It may be that that is a good trade off for the U.K. but it is by no means assured. It depends upon a trade off between EU trade and world trade. EU trade is the smaller proportion of our trade already and the trends are not in its favour.
If the price of membership of the single market is open boundaries it is not a price the majority are willing to pay. Turning down membership of the single market does not mean turning down free trade with it although I accept it will be less free involving customs costs such as proof of origin of UK goods. If that is the price of control of free movement then we simply have to hope that the opportunities of negotiating our own trade will set off any marginal loss arising from marginal cost in our trade with the EU.
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Well, if May is not hearkening to a new era of strident right wingedness, a lot of them will be disappointed. If they are right, well, the options are so few the liberal conservatives aren't going anywhere.MP_SE said:
The trickle is turning into a flood.Scott_P said:@TelePolitics: Millionaire Ukip donor Paul Sykes announces plans to defect to Tories following Brexit telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/2…
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He's only been in office a few months...so yes. But he has probably not insulted the mothers or threatened to kill every yet. Probably.rcs1000 said:
Hasn't he told almost everyone to f off..HYUFD said:
The President of the Philippines also told the EU to 'F*** Off!' only yesterdayBig_G_NorthWales said:I know you have to treat the Daily Express as the ultimate Brexit paper but they are reporting Developing Countries and others are losing interest in trade deals with the EU on UK's exit. Very interesting if true and when you think about it it does make sense
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/712818/F-you-EU-Philippines-president-blasts-Brussels-over-anti-crime-killings0 -
Actually Leaverstan now does not just include much of the provincial UK but the southern and rustbelt states of the US voting for Trump, most of the depressed industrial areas of France voting for Le Pen etc. Indeed London, Paris and New York and LA now have more in common with each other than London does with the North East, Paris with the Pas de Calais and New York with West Virginia and Ohio. Never have the west's most prosperous cities and their suburbs been so divorced from the rest of the countryfoxinsoxuk said:
So we are joining the Third world? Or at least Leaverstan is....Big_G_NorthWales said:I know you have to treat the Daily Express as the ultimate Brexit paper but they are reporting Developing Countries and others are losing interest in trade deals with the EU on UK's exit. Very interesting if true and when you think about it it does make sense
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Gosh. Trump "got where he is by stiffing small businesses". I am glad the level of political discourse over here is a slight improvement on that.williamglenn said:http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2016/09/22/hillary_clinton_why_arent_i_50_points_ahead.html
Hillary tries to inject some passion - "'Why aren't I 50 points ahead,' you might ask."0 -
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Eh, leaving aside the problem of hanging everything on one constituency I'd say vote share is more important than place.kle4 said:
1st=Up is now down, black is now white, the universe is endingTCPoliticalBetting said:
If the LDs are a long way off 2nd then this "fightback" claim is bust. Question is what range of performaces would equate to various conclusions?Black_Rook said:FPT - Mike Smithson suggests Lib Dems are under most pressure to perform in Witney, but I'm not so sure. They have been polling 8% nationally for years, so if they do badly again it will be no worse than expected. Labour, on the other hand, bagged nearly 20% of the vote last year. It will be interesting to see if they shed votes, and if they do where these votes end up......
1st = major gain for LDs
2nd = LD claim fightback underway
3rd = No fightback
4th or deposit lost = crisis for Farron.
2nd= the LD fight back is real
3rd=no fightback
4th=oh sh*t, they found a way to go backwards
Sub 5= disaster
5 - 10= status quo
10- 15= good growth
15- 20= Excellent fightback
20+= Major gain0 -
Absolutely but in light of her opponent that is entirely understandable.weejonnie said:
Delusions of adequacy.DavidL said:
Because you are a lying crooked bitch? Just a suggestion.williamglenn said:http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2016/09/22/hillary_clinton_why_arent_i_50_points_ahead.html
Hillary tries to inject some passion - "'Why aren't I 50 points ahead,' you might ask."0 -
BBC News today also featuring the police shootings of black people. Note that tonight's 10pm news said it was a matter of race, but omitted the fact that in Charlotte the policeman who fired the shot is also black.0
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Norway can, does, and has negotiated separate trade deals. (I.e., it is a signatory to the EFTA-Canada trade deal.)DavidL said:
Really? How can you be a part of the single market and not the customs union? That makes no sense to me. A free trade agreement between the EU and someone is of course possible but Norway accept the consequences I have described. They are bound by single market laws and cannot negotiate independent trade deals. I think.rcs1000 said:
That's not true: turkey is a member of the customs union but not the single market; Norway of the single market but not the customs union.DavidL said:
There are a number of assumptions built into your post which may or may not be vindicated in due course.YellowSubmarine said:The move by a series of ambitious Blairite and modernisers curled with today's Sennedd vote suggests Labour is converging on May's ' immigration control first ' negotiating strategy.This is doubtless after a Summer talking to constituents in big Leave areas and realising voters won't budge now there world view has been validated in a national referendum. So the tiny chance of us remaining a member of the Single Market vanishes entirely. To the best of my knowledge no advanced, consumerist democracy has ever deliberately chosen to be slightly but permanently poorer before to further a noneconomic goal. The nearest but inexact comparison would be the catastrophic occupations of Afghanistan and Iraq. Neither is a happy precident. This is going to be interesting as they say.
Membership of the single market requires membership of the customs union of the EU which in turn presumes a waiver of our right to negotiate trade deals with the rest of the world independently.
It may be that that is a good trade off for the U.K. but it is by no means assured. It depends upon a trade off between EU trade and world trade. EU trade is the smaller proportion of our trade already and the trends are not in its favour.
If the price of membership of the single market is open boundaries it is not a price the majority are willing to pay. Turning down membership of the single market does not mean turning down free trade with it although I accept it will be less free involving customs costs such as proof of origin of UK goods. If that is the price of control of free movement then we simply have to hope that the opportunities of negotiating our own trade will set off any marginal loss arising from marginal cost in our trade with the EU.0 -
I have never watched an episode of the GBBO but the idea of one nationalised channel dependent on the public purse outbidding another for a program that one has developed is pretty odd.Scott_P said:0 -
NEW THREAD
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Turning out quite fun, this, and I don't even watch GBBO. As has been noted, the basic format is pretty darn simple, and we've seen with Top Gear you are more than able to do essentially the same thing with the same people and call it something else, so why not with GBBO?Scott_P said:0 -
Well Obama certainlyrcs1000 said:
Hasn't he told almost everyone to f off..HYUFD said:
The President of the Philippines also told the EU to 'F*** Off!' only yesterdayBig_G_NorthWales said:I know you have to treat the Daily Express as the ultimate Brexit paper but they are reporting Developing Countries and others are losing interest in trade deals with the EU on UK's exit. Very interesting if true and when you think about it it does make sense
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/712818/F-you-EU-Philippines-president-blasts-Brussels-over-anti-crime-killings0 -
I suppose you could make the case that black policemen have become normalised to expect and stereotype black people as criminals.TCPoliticalBetting said:BBC News today also featuring the police shootings of black people. Note that tonight's 10pm news said it was a matter of race, but omitted the fact that in Charlotte the policeman who fired the shot is also black.
Whether the (innocent) black person who was shot in Charlotte was merely exercising his constitutional second ammendment rights, or the gun was planted, it was a case of trigger happy cops, and another dead black person.
Though of course policing in a gun crazy America would make anyone a little twitchy with the trigger finger.0 -
He did. He's a prize shit. Fact.Ishmael_X said:
Gosh. Trump "got where he is by stiffing small businesses". I am glad the level of political discourse over here is a slight improvement on that.williamglenn said:http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2016/09/22/hillary_clinton_why_arent_i_50_points_ahead.html
Hillary tries to inject some passion - "'Why aren't I 50 points ahead,' you might ask."0 -
Yes, with the subtelty that the EU can see tax breaks as subsidy: see Apple et al. Not the same in the US - witness the bribes to have Boejng stay in Wash./move facilities to other states.MTimT said:
This is as old as Airbus. Even back in business school in 1990 we looked at the claims and counter-claims. US claims government direct subsidies of Airbus, EU claims US government does the same but disguises it as defence contracts.MarkHopkins said:RobD said:
Thanks. Seems like they're both at it, though.
PS In American Football there is a useful concept applicable here - off-setting penalties.
There were adverse WTO rulings 5years ago when I was looking at this professionally. The interesting thing about WTO sanctions is that they are against country not industry. So look for emotional punch points - Scottish whisky for example.0
