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  • Options
    MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    Scott_P said:

    @TelePolitics: Millionaire Ukip donor Paul Sykes announces plans to defect to Tories following Brexit telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/2…

    The trickle is turning into a flood.
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    RobD said:

    Scott_P said:

    @faisalislam: Congratulations to barrister @robertcourts the new Conservative PPC for Witney - decent chance of becoming an MP

    Only decent? Has Islam lost his marbles?
    Remember before Dave, Witney had a Labour MP.

    People forget and underestimate the awesomeness of Dave.
    Well he did take a Labour seat and turn it into one of the safest Tory seats in the country.
  • Options
    MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    tlg86 said:

    Blimey, who's this bloke on the referendum documentary who made a fortune?!

    Crispin Odey
  • Options

    I assume the PB African American Rampers for Trump have been spamming posting this on PB?

    Trump campaign chair in Ohio resigns over ‘no racism before Obama' remarks

    Kathy Miller, chair in a crucial Ohio county, resigned after the Guardian released video of her saying, ‘It’s their own fault’ if black people haven’t succeeded

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/sep/22/trump-campaign-chair-kathy-miller-resigns-ohio-racism-obama

    The first part of the video's worth watch for an exquisite demonstration of Guardianista sneering at small-town Americans.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,289

    The move by a series of ambitious Blairite and modernisers curled with today's Sennedd vote suggests Labour is converging on May's ' immigration control first ' negotiating strategy.This is doubtless after a Summer talking to constituents in big Leave areas and realising voters won't budge now there world view has been validated in a national referendum. So the tiny chance of us remaining a member of the Single Market vanishes entirely. To the best of my knowledge no advanced, consumerist democracy has ever deliberately chosen to be slightly but permanently poorer before to further a noneconomic goal. The nearest but inexact comparison would be the catastrophic occupations of Afghanistan and Iraq. Neither is a happy precident. This is going to be interesting as they say.

    I suspect that Labour have worked out that only the Tories have any political interest in the economic side turning out well, whereas if the reverse occurs there will be a lot of dissatisfied voters around. Thus from their narrow self interest (which sadly is how Labour generally views things) they may as well try and align with those concerned about freedom of movement, leaving the Tories to pick up the tab for any economic cost.
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    Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664
    Scott_P said:

    @TelePolitics: Millionaire Ukip donor Paul Sykes announces plans to defect to Tories following Brexit telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/2…

    That would be re-re-re-defect, he's being doing the hokey cokey ever since Maggie's day
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    edited September 2016
    MP_SE said:

    tlg86 said:

    Blimey, who's this bloke on the referendum documentary who made a fortune?!

    Crispin Odey
    Alan Duncan is proving very prescient in his contemporaneous interviews.

    I always thought him a prat over local issues here.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,022
    MP_SE said:

    Scott_P said:

    @TelePolitics: Millionaire Ukip donor Paul Sykes announces plans to defect to Tories following Brexit telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/2…

    The trickle is turning into a flood.
    Not Aaron Banks though
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,022
    edited September 2016

    I assume the PB African American Rampers for Trump have been spamming posting this on PB?

    Trump campaign chair in Ohio resigns over ‘no racism before Obama' remarks

    Kathy Miller, chair in a crucial Ohio county, resigned after the Guardian released video of her saying, ‘It’s their own fault’ if black people haven’t succeeded

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/sep/22/trump-campaign-chair-kathy-miller-resigns-ohio-racism-obama

    Maybe but have just checked and no coverage of it on either the ABC news or Fox website
  • Options

    MP_SE said:

    tlg86 said:

    Blimey, who's this bloke on the referendum documentary who made a fortune?!

    Crispin Odey
    Alan Duncan is proving very prescient in his contemporaneous interviews.

    Ialways thought him a prat over local issues here.
    Maybe he's a prescient prat.
  • Options
    Talking about free movement...

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-37442328

    Two Belgian policemen have been questioned by their French counterparts after they were caught with 13 illegal immigrants in their car.

    The officers said they felt sorry for the migrants, who were found in a lorry in Belgium, and offered to give them a lift to the border.

    But they strayed into France, where they were arrested and questioned.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,308

    DavidL said:

    The move by a series of ambitious Blairite and modernisers curled with today's Sennedd vote suggests Labour is converging on May's ' immigration control first ' negotiating strategy.This is doubtless after a Summer talking to constituents in big Leave areas and realising voters won't budge now there world view has been validated in a national referendum. So the tiny chance of us remaining a member of the Single Market vanishes entirely. To the best of my knowledge no advanced, consumerist democracy has ever deliberately chosen to be slightly but permanently poorer before to further a noneconomic goal. The nearest but inexact comparison would be the catastrophic occupations of Afghanistan and Iraq. Neither is a happy precident. This is going to be interesting as they say.

    There are a number of assumptions built into your post which may or may not be vindicated in due course.

    Membership of the single market requires membership of the customs union of the EU which in turn presumes a waiver of our right to negotiate trade deals with the rest of the world independently.

    It may be that that is a good trade off for the U.K. but it is by no means assured. It depends upon a trade off between EU trade and world trade. EU trade is the smaller proportion of our trade already and the trends are not in its favour.

    If the price of membership of the single market is open boundaries it is not a price the majority are willing to pay. Turning down membership of the single market does not mean turning down free trade with it although I accept it will be less free involving customs costs such as proof of origin of UK goods. If that is the price of control of free movement then we simply have to hope that the opportunities of negotiating our own trade will set off any marginal loss arising from marginal cost in our trade with the EU.
    I agree with your analysis. I'm extremely gloomy that a protectionist and insular event like the Leave vote will translate into a burst of freer trade with the rest of the world. I'm as certain as I can be that even if I'm wrong on point one that Leaverstan will be devastated by turbo charged globalisation after having voted against Free Range European globalisation. But you are right about my assumptions and I agree with your analysis of the trade offs at play.
    This is genuinely difficult and complicated stuff, one of the reasons I think we need people like Osborne and Gove helping out. We may even need the help of the Nick Cleggs of this world or the Ed Balls. A cross party approach would be better than a sectional interest. This is way too important to have anything other than our best team on. The 3 Brexiteers seem way short of the mark. I think this can be better for us but only if we do it right.
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    Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664
    MP_SE said:

    tlg86 said:

    Blimey, who's this bloke on the referendum documentary who made a fortune?!

    Crispin Odey
    "Crispin Odey loses 20% for second time in a year" FT 20/3/16
    https://www.ft.com/content/cfb83fcc-ed23-11e5-bb79-2303682345c8

    So possibly just making up lost ground
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    IanB2 said:

    The move by a series of ambitious Blairite and modernisers curled with today's Sennedd vote suggests Labour is converging on May's ' immigration control first ' negotiating strategy.This is doubtless after a Summer talking to constituents in big Leave areas and realising voters won't budge now there world view has been validated in a national referendum. So the tiny chance of us remaining a member of the Single Market vanishes entirely. To the best of my knowledge no advanced, consumerist democracy has ever deliberately chosen to be slightly but permanently poorer before to further a noneconomic goal. The nearest but inexact comparison would be the catastrophic occupations of Afghanistan and Iraq. Neither is a happy precident. This is going to be interesting as they say.

    I suspect that Labour have worked out that only the Tories have any political interest in the economic side turning out well, whereas if the reverse occurs there will be a lot of dissatisfied voters around. Thus from their narrow self interest (which sadly is how Labour generally views things) they may as well try and align with those concerned about freedom of movement, leaving the Tories to pick up the tab for any economic cost.
    The genie is out of the bottle. Once elections are about identity and blaming abstract ' others ' rather than philosophy and policy choices who knows who gets blamed next ? I suspect Labour MP's know it could be them. In 2020 and 2025 we could see many passionate Remain backing Labour MP's loosing their seats as Leaverstan voters blame them for Brexit having changed nothing about their lives save even bigger public spending cuts.
  • Options
    What's the phrase, correlation does not imply causation?

    'Post-Brexit racism: The truth of hate crime boom after Leave vote and the telling area where incidents fell'

    http://tinyurl.com/h36ppeh
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    tysontyson Posts: 6,050

    tyson said:

    tyson said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I see a load of Hollywood actors have done a Democrat vid.

    Another shade of Brexit...

    Jesus. Don't they ever learn?
    What are people who are culturally literate, creative, intelligent, vibrant, open minded to do? Just not say anything.

    Or should they all sink to the murky, populist, nihilistic, lowest common denominator, ill educated, nasty crowd and cheer on lying morons.. and join the likes of.Brexit, Trump, Le Pen, Climate change conspiracists and their horrible, horrible ilk.......
    Thank you for reinforcing my point.
    The problem is Casino, as we will see with Corbyn's election...is that the numbers do not stack up. There are too many morons..as with Brexit. Because a vote is won doesn't make it right.

    It's a difficult time at the minute for a passionate liberal, open minded, human rights, internationalist, collective advocate like myself..the tide is against me. But I know that ultimately the tide will come back, and the nasty, xenophobic, lowest common denominator crap that is pervading modern politics will be washed down the toilet of history where it belongs, and where it has been washed down before...
    Yes, but you are also a bit of a dick yourself, aren't you?

    I've always thought that your biggest problem is that there is a part of yourself you really don't like.
    I don't know...maybe I am a dick? I really don't know....what I do know is that the kind of childish insults people have thrown at me on this site, I haven't encountered since I was at primary school, or even before. Possibly a reason why I continue to post here anonymously.

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    I know you have to treat the Daily Express as the ultimate Brexit paper but they are reporting Developing Countries and others are losing interest in trade deals with the EU on UK's exit. Very interesting if true and when you think about it it does make sense
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    MP_SE said:

    tlg86 said:

    Blimey, who's this bloke on the referendum documentary who made a fortune?!

    Crispin Odey
    Alan Duncan is proving very prescient in his contemporaneous interviews.

    Ialways thought him a prat over local issues here.
    Maybe he's a prescient prat.
    Yeah. That would be correct.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,022

    I know you have to treat the Daily Express as the ultimate Brexit paper but they are reporting Developing Countries and others are losing interest in trade deals with the EU on UK's exit. Very interesting if true and when you think about it it does make sense

    The President of the Philippines also told the EU to 'F*** Off!' only yesterday
    http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/712818/F-you-EU-Philippines-president-blasts-Brussels-over-anti-crime-killings
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,384
    edited September 2016
    tyson said:

    tyson said:

    tyson said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I see a load of Hollywood actors have done a Democrat vid.

    Another shade of Brexit...

    Jesus. Don't they ever learn?
    What are people who are culturally literate, creative, intelligent, vibrant, open minded to do? Just not say anything.

    Or should they all sink to the murky, populist, nihilistic, lowest common denominator, ill educated, nasty crowd and cheer on lying morons.. and join the likes of.Brexit, Trump, Le Pen, Climate change conspiracists and their horrible, horrible ilk.......
    Thank you for reinforcing my point.
    The problem is Casino, as we will see with Corbyn's election...is that the numbers do not stack up. There are too many morons..as with Brexit. Because a vote is won doesn't make it right.

    It's a difficult time at the minute for a passionate liberal, open minded, human rights, internationalist, collective advocate like myself..the tide is against me. But I know that ultimately the tide will come back, and the nasty, xenophobic, lowest common denominator crap that is pervading modern politics will be washed down the toilet of history where it belongs, and where it has been washed down before...
    Yes, but you are also a bit of a dick yourself, aren't you?

    I've always thought that your biggest problem is that there is a part of yourself you really don't like.
    I don't know...maybe I am a dick? I really don't know....what I do know is that the kind of childish insults people have thrown at me on this site, I haven't encountered since I was at primary school, or even before. Possibly a reason why I continue to post here anonymously.

    You dish it out but you can't take it. You've called me far worse before, and deeply personal too. Ergo, you are a bit of a dick.

    I think you're quite a damaged and guilt-ridden individual.

    On the other hand, I think you and I would have a very interesting and revealing evening over a couple of bottles of Rioja together, and I think we'd both enjoy it too.
  • Options

    tyson said:

    tyson said:

    tyson said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I see a load of Hollywood actors have done a Democrat vid.

    Another shade of Brexit...

    Jesus. Don't they ever learn?
    What are people who are culturally literate, creative, intelligent, vibrant, open minded to do? Just not say anything.

    Or should they all sink to the murky, populist, nihilistic, lowest common denominator, ill educated, nasty crowd and cheer on lying morons.. and join the likes of.Brexit, Trump, Le Pen, Climate change conspiracists and their horrible, horrible ilk.......
    Thank you for reinforcing my point.
    The problem is Casino, as we will see with Corbyn's election...is that the numbers do not stack up. There are too many morons..as with Brexit. Because a vote is won doesn't make it right.

    It's a difficult time at the minute for a passionate liberal, open minded, human rights, internationalist, collective advocate like myself..the tide is against me. But I know that ultimately the tide will come back, and the nasty, xenophobic, lowest common denominator crap that is pervading modern politics will be washed down the toilet of history where it belongs, and where it has been washed down before...
    Yes, but you are also a bit of a dick yourself, aren't you?

    I've always thought that your biggest problem is that there is a part of yourself you really don't like.
    I don't know...maybe I am a dick? I really don't know....what I do know is that the kind of childish insults people have thrown at me on this site, I haven't encountered since I was at primary school, or even before. Possibly a reason why I continue to post here anonymously.

    You dish it out but you can't take it. You've called me far worse before, and deeply personal too. Ergo, you are a bit of a dick.

    I think your quite a damaged and guilt-ridden individual.

    On the other hand, I think you and I would have a very interesting evening over a couple of bottles of Rioja together, and I think we'd both enjoy it too.
    I've met you both and Tyson, you'd get on great.
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    Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664
    tyson said:

    tyson said:

    tyson said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I see a load of Hollywood actors have done a Democrat vid.

    Another shade of Brexit...

    Jesus. Don't they ever learn?
    What are people who are culturally literate, creative, intelligent, vibrant, open minded to do? Just not say anything.

    Or should they all sink to the murky, populist, nihilistic, lowest common denominator, ill educated, nasty crowd and cheer on lying morons.. and join the likes of.Brexit, Trump, Le Pen, Climate change conspiracists and their horrible, horrible ilk.......
    Thank you for reinforcing my point.
    The problem is Casino, as we will see with Corbyn's election...is that the numbers do not stack up. There are too many morons..as with Brexit. Because a vote is won doesn't make it right.

    It's a difficult time at the minute for a passionate liberal, open minded, human rights, internationalist, collective advocate like myself..the tide is against me. But I know that ultimately the tide will come back, and the nasty, xenophobic, lowest common denominator crap that is pervading modern politics will be washed down the toilet of history where it belongs, and where it has been washed down before...
    Yes, but you are also a bit of a dick yourself, aren't you?

    I've always thought that your biggest problem is that there is a part of yourself you really don't like.
    I don't know...maybe I am a dick? I really don't know....what I do know is that the kind of childish insults people have thrown at me on this site, I haven't encountered since I was at primary school, or even before. Possibly a reason why I continue to post here anonymously.

    I think you will find that you invariably start it. But you are right, responding in kind is childish and I shall in future ignore you.

    Whatever your problem is, self-medicating with cheap Chianti is not the solution to it.
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    YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    Scott_P said:

    @faisalislam: Congratulations to barrister @robertcourts the new Conservative PPC for Witney - decent chance of becoming an MP

    We’re extremely short of barristers in Parliament, so it is a relief that the Tory party are augmenting their number.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,022
    BBC2 programme ends with a Farage warning on Leave voters 'If they betray those people you ain't seen nothing yet'. Unless May takes the UK fully out of the single market, ends free movement and immigration falls significantly UKIP will be right on her back in 2020 it seems
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    saddenedsaddened Posts: 2,245

    Scott_P said:

    @faisalislam: Congratulations to barrister @robertcourts the new Conservative PPC for Witney - decent chance of becoming an MP

    We’re extremely short of barristers in Parliament, so it is a relief that the Tory party are augmenting their number.
    We are short of councillors who bring something to parliament, rather than PPE, SPAD, MP, so a good choice.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,308
    I once trailed all the way from Edinburgh to Manchester for a PB meet up and had the privilege and pleasure of meeting TSE, Nick, Big John Owls and a slightly strange Jewish chap. The fact is we all have way more in common than we do with 99% of those we meet in our everyday lives. We find politics interesting, we care about the common good and we genuinely think what we think matters a damn. It's great. Thank you to OGH and all those who contribute below the line. My life would be a lot duller without it.
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    I know you have to treat the Daily Express as the ultimate Brexit paper but they are reporting Developing Countries and others are losing interest in trade deals with the EU on UK's exit. Very interesting if true and when you think about it it does make sense

    So we are joining the Third world? Or at least Leaverstan is....
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    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2016/09/22/hillary_clinton_why_arent_i_50_points_ahead.html

    Hillary tries to inject some passion - "'Why aren't I 50 points ahead,' you might ask."
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,001
    RobD said:
    Both Boeing and Airbus have been subsidised to the tune of billions by the US and the EU. Boeing even boasts in investor meetings about the R&D with for the DoD that "offers synergies" with their civil business.
  • Options

    FPT - Mike Smithson suggests Lib Dems are under most pressure to perform in Witney, but I'm not so sure. They have been polling 8% nationally for years, so if they do badly again it will be no worse than expected. Labour, on the other hand, bagged nearly 20% of the vote last year. It will be interesting to see if they shed votes, and if they do where these votes end up......

    If the LDs are a long way off 2nd then this "fightback" claim is bust. Question is what range of performaces would equate to various conclusions?
    1st = major gain for LDs
    2nd = LD claim fightback underway
    3rd = No fightback
    4th or deposit lost = crisis for Farron.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,308

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2016/09/22/hillary_clinton_why_arent_i_50_points_ahead.html

    Hillary tries to inject some passion - "'Why aren't I 50 points ahead,' you might ask."

    Because you are a lying crooked bitch? Just a suggestion.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,001
    DavidL said:

    The move by a series of ambitious Blairite and modernisers curled with today's Sennedd vote suggests Labour is converging on May's ' immigration control first ' negotiating strategy.This is doubtless after a Summer talking to constituents in big Leave areas and realising voters won't budge now there world view has been validated in a national referendum. So the tiny chance of us remaining a member of the Single Market vanishes entirely. To the best of my knowledge no advanced, consumerist democracy has ever deliberately chosen to be slightly but permanently poorer before to further a noneconomic goal. The nearest but inexact comparison would be the catastrophic occupations of Afghanistan and Iraq. Neither is a happy precident. This is going to be interesting as they say.

    There are a number of assumptions built into your post which may or may not be vindicated in due course.

    Membership of the single market requires membership of the customs union of the EU which in turn presumes a waiver of our right to negotiate trade deals with the rest of the world independently.

    It may be that that is a good trade off for the U.K. but it is by no means assured. It depends upon a trade off between EU trade and world trade. EU trade is the smaller proportion of our trade already and the trends are not in its favour.

    If the price of membership of the single market is open boundaries it is not a price the majority are willing to pay. Turning down membership of the single market does not mean turning down free trade with it although I accept it will be less free involving customs costs such as proof of origin of UK goods. If that is the price of control of free movement then we simply have to hope that the opportunities of negotiating our own trade will set off any marginal loss arising from marginal cost in our trade with the EU.
    That's not true: turkey is a member of the customs union but not the single market; Norway of the single market but not the customs union.
  • Options
    chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341

    I know you have to treat the Daily Express as the ultimate Brexit paper but they are reporting Developing Countries and others are losing interest in trade deals with the EU on UK's exit. Very interesting if true and when you think about it it does make sense

    So we are joining the Third world? Or at least Leaverstan is....
    Is this your entry into the 'how much casual racism can the average public sector leftie fit into one line?' competition?
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,797

    FPT - Mike Smithson suggests Lib Dems are under most pressure to perform in Witney, but I'm not so sure. They have been polling 8% nationally for years, so if they do badly again it will be no worse than expected. Labour, on the other hand, bagged nearly 20% of the vote last year. It will be interesting to see if they shed votes, and if they do where these votes end up......

    If the LDs are a long way off 2nd then this "fightback" claim is bust. Question is what range of performaces would equate to various conclusions?
    1st = major gain for LDs
    2nd = LD claim fightback underway
    3rd = No fightback
    4th or deposit lost = crisis for Farron.
    1st=Up is now down, black is now white, the universe is ending
    2nd= the LD fight back is real
    3rd=no fightback
    4th=oh sh*t, they found a way to go backwards
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,001

    FPT - Mike Smithson suggests Lib Dems are under most pressure to perform in Witney, but I'm not so sure. They have been polling 8% nationally for years, so if they do badly again it will be no worse than expected. Labour, on the other hand, bagged nearly 20% of the vote last year. It will be interesting to see if they shed votes, and if they do where these votes end up......

    If the LDs are a long way off 2nd then this "fightback" claim is bust. Question is what range of performaces would equate to various conclusions?
    1st = major gain for LDs
    2nd = LD claim fightback underway
    3rd = No fightback
    4th or deposit lost = crisis for Farron.
    I think they'll manage 2, simply because Witney is about as far from Momentum territory as I'd possible.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,001
    HYUFD said:

    I know you have to treat the Daily Express as the ultimate Brexit paper but they are reporting Developing Countries and others are losing interest in trade deals with the EU on UK's exit. Very interesting if true and when you think about it it does make sense

    The President of the Philippines also told the EU to 'F*** Off!' only yesterday
    http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/712818/F-you-EU-Philippines-president-blasts-Brussels-over-anti-crime-killings
    Hasn't he told almost everyone to f off..
  • Options

    I know you have to treat the Daily Express as the ultimate Brexit paper but they are reporting Developing Countries and others are losing interest in trade deals with the EU on UK's exit. Very interesting if true and when you think about it it does make sense

    So we are joining the Third world? Or at least Leaverstan is....
    Not sure who Leaverstan is but the point is we are joining the World - all of it and on our terms not some unelected out of touch elite who are heading for the dustbin of history
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,797
    tyson said:

    tyson said:

    tyson said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I see a load of Hollywood actors have done a Democrat vid.

    Another shade of Brexit...

    Jesus. Don't they ever learn?
    What are people who are culturally literate, creative, intelligent, vibrant, open minded to do? Just not say anything.

    Or should they all sink to the murky, populist, nihilistic, lowest common denominator, ill educated, nasty crowd and cheer on lying morons.. and join the likes of.Brexit, Trump, Le Pen, Climate change conspiracists and their horrible, horrible ilk.......
    Thank you for reinforcing my point.
    The problem is Casino, as we will see with Corbyn's election...is that the numbers do not stack up. There are too many morons..as with Brexit. Because a vote is won doesn't make it right.

    It's a difficult time at the minute for a passionate liberal, open minded, human rights, internationalist, collective advocate like myself..the tide is against me. But I know that ultimately the tide will come back, and the nasty, xenophobic, lowest common denominator crap that is pervading modern politics will be washed down the toilet of history where it belongs, and where it has been washed down before...
    Yes, but you are also a bit of a dick yourself, aren't you?

    I've always thought that your biggest problem is that there is a part of yourself you really don't like.
    I don't know...maybe I am a dick? I really don't know....what I do know is that the kind of childish insults people have thrown at me on this site, I haven't encountered since I was at primary school, or even before. Possibly a reason why I continue to post here anonymously.

    Anonymously is best in any case, but in terms of insults you certainly have faced a great many, more than I could stomach, but I'd assumed you'd wanted them - the shadow you decry is also the one you cast.

    I very much hope you continue to passionately put forth your views, variety is the spice of life.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,797
    HYUFD said:

    I know you have to treat the Daily Express as the ultimate Brexit paper but they are reporting Developing Countries and others are losing interest in trade deals with the EU on UK's exit. Very interesting if true and when you think about it it does make sense

    The President of the Philippines also told the EU to 'F*** Off!' only yesterday
    http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/712818/F-you-EU-Philippines-president-blasts-Brussels-over-anti-crime-killings
    Unfortunately he's not really the type whose comments bring me cheer, even if normally such a sentiment the view expressed might.
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    GeoffM said:
    Tsk, why do people think I'm obsessed with filth and innuendo?

    Oh..
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    weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820
    DavidL said:

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2016/09/22/hillary_clinton_why_arent_i_50_points_ahead.html

    Hillary tries to inject some passion - "'Why aren't I 50 points ahead,' you might ask."

    Because you are a lying crooked bitch? Just a suggestion.
    Delusions of adequacy.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,308
    edited September 2016
    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    The move by a series of ambitious Blairite and modernisers curled with today's Sennedd vote suggests Labour is converging on May's ' immigration control first ' negotiating strategy.This is doubtless after a Summer talking to constituents in big Leave areas and realising voters won't budge now there world view has been validated in a national referendum. So the tiny chance of us remaining a member of the Single Market vanishes entirely. To the best of my knowledge no advanced, consumerist democracy has ever deliberately chosen to be slightly but permanently poorer before to further a noneconomic goal. The nearest but inexact comparison would be the catastrophic occupations of Afghanistan and Iraq. Neither is a happy precident. This is going to be interesting as they say.

    There are a number of assumptions built into your post which may or may not be vindicated in due course.

    Membership of the single market requires membership of the customs union of the EU which in turn presumes a waiver of our right to negotiate trade deals with the rest of the world independently.

    It may be that that is a good trade off for the U.K. but it is by no means assured. It depends upon a trade off between EU trade and world trade. EU trade is the smaller proportion of our trade already and the trends are not in its favour.

    If the price of membership of the single market is open boundaries it is not a price the majority are willing to pay. Turning down membership of the single market does not mean turning down free trade with it although I accept it will be less free involving customs costs such as proof of origin of UK goods. If that is the price of control of free movement then we simply have to hope that the opportunities of negotiating our own trade will set off any marginal loss arising from marginal cost in our trade with the EU.
    That's not true: turkey is a member of the customs union but not the single market; Norway of the single market but not the customs union.
    Really? How can you be a part of the single market and not the customs union? That makes no sense to me. A free trade agreement between the EU and someone is of course possible but Norway accept the consequences I have described. They are bound by single market laws and cannot negotiate independent trade deals. I think.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,797
    MP_SE said:

    Scott_P said:

    @TelePolitics: Millionaire Ukip donor Paul Sykes announces plans to defect to Tories following Brexit telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/2…

    The trickle is turning into a flood.
    Well, if May is not hearkening to a new era of strident right wingedness, a lot of them will be disappointed. If they are right, well, the options are so few the liberal conservatives aren't going anywhere.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,797
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    I know you have to treat the Daily Express as the ultimate Brexit paper but they are reporting Developing Countries and others are losing interest in trade deals with the EU on UK's exit. Very interesting if true and when you think about it it does make sense

    The President of the Philippines also told the EU to 'F*** Off!' only yesterday
    http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/712818/F-you-EU-Philippines-president-blasts-Brussels-over-anti-crime-killings
    Hasn't he told almost everyone to f off..
    He's only been in office a few months...so yes. But he has probably not insulted the mothers or threatened to kill every yet. Probably.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,022
    edited September 2016

    I know you have to treat the Daily Express as the ultimate Brexit paper but they are reporting Developing Countries and others are losing interest in trade deals with the EU on UK's exit. Very interesting if true and when you think about it it does make sense

    So we are joining the Third world? Or at least Leaverstan is....
    Actually Leaverstan now does not just include much of the provincial UK but the southern and rustbelt states of the US voting for Trump, most of the depressed industrial areas of France voting for Le Pen etc. Indeed London, Paris and New York and LA now have more in common with each other than London does with the North East, Paris with the Pas de Calais and New York with West Virginia and Ohio. Never have the west's most prosperous cities and their suburbs been so divorced from the rest of the country
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    Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2016/09/22/hillary_clinton_why_arent_i_50_points_ahead.html

    Hillary tries to inject some passion - "'Why aren't I 50 points ahead,' you might ask."

    Gosh. Trump "got where he is by stiffing small businesses". I am glad the level of political discourse over here is a slight improvement on that.
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    corporealcorporeal Posts: 2,549
    kle4 said:

    FPT - Mike Smithson suggests Lib Dems are under most pressure to perform in Witney, but I'm not so sure. They have been polling 8% nationally for years, so if they do badly again it will be no worse than expected. Labour, on the other hand, bagged nearly 20% of the vote last year. It will be interesting to see if they shed votes, and if they do where these votes end up......

    If the LDs are a long way off 2nd then this "fightback" claim is bust. Question is what range of performaces would equate to various conclusions?
    1st = major gain for LDs
    2nd = LD claim fightback underway
    3rd = No fightback
    4th or deposit lost = crisis for Farron.
    1st=Up is now down, black is now white, the universe is ending
    2nd= the LD fight back is real
    3rd=no fightback
    4th=oh sh*t, they found a way to go backwards
    Eh, leaving aside the problem of hanging everything on one constituency I'd say vote share is more important than place.

    Sub 5= disaster
    5 - 10= status quo
    10- 15= good growth
    15- 20= Excellent fightback
    20+= Major gain
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,308
    weejonnie said:

    DavidL said:

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2016/09/22/hillary_clinton_why_arent_i_50_points_ahead.html

    Hillary tries to inject some passion - "'Why aren't I 50 points ahead,' you might ask."

    Because you are a lying crooked bitch? Just a suggestion.
    Delusions of adequacy.
    Absolutely but in light of her opponent that is entirely understandable.
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    BBC News today also featuring the police shootings of black people. Note that tonight's 10pm news said it was a matter of race, but omitted the fact that in Charlotte the policeman who fired the shot is also black.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,001
    DavidL said:

    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    The move by a series of ambitious Blairite and modernisers curled with today's Sennedd vote suggests Labour is converging on May's ' immigration control first ' negotiating strategy.This is doubtless after a Summer talking to constituents in big Leave areas and realising voters won't budge now there world view has been validated in a national referendum. So the tiny chance of us remaining a member of the Single Market vanishes entirely. To the best of my knowledge no advanced, consumerist democracy has ever deliberately chosen to be slightly but permanently poorer before to further a noneconomic goal. The nearest but inexact comparison would be the catastrophic occupations of Afghanistan and Iraq. Neither is a happy precident. This is going to be interesting as they say.

    There are a number of assumptions built into your post which may or may not be vindicated in due course.

    Membership of the single market requires membership of the customs union of the EU which in turn presumes a waiver of our right to negotiate trade deals with the rest of the world independently.

    It may be that that is a good trade off for the U.K. but it is by no means assured. It depends upon a trade off between EU trade and world trade. EU trade is the smaller proportion of our trade already and the trends are not in its favour.

    If the price of membership of the single market is open boundaries it is not a price the majority are willing to pay. Turning down membership of the single market does not mean turning down free trade with it although I accept it will be less free involving customs costs such as proof of origin of UK goods. If that is the price of control of free movement then we simply have to hope that the opportunities of negotiating our own trade will set off any marginal loss arising from marginal cost in our trade with the EU.
    That's not true: turkey is a member of the customs union but not the single market; Norway of the single market but not the customs union.
    Really? How can you be a part of the single market and not the customs union? That makes no sense to me. A free trade agreement between the EU and someone is of course possible but Norway accept the consequences I have described. They are bound by single market laws and cannot negotiate independent trade deals. I think.
    Norway can, does, and has negotiated separate trade deals. (I.e., it is a signatory to the EFTA-Canada trade deal.)
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,308
    Scott_P said:
    I have never watched an episode of the GBBO but the idea of one nationalised channel dependent on the public purse outbidding another for a program that one has developed is pretty odd.
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    NEW THREAD

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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,797
    Scott_P said:
    Turning out quite fun, this, and I don't even watch GBBO. As has been noted, the basic format is pretty darn simple, and we've seen with Top Gear you are more than able to do essentially the same thing with the same people and call it something else, so why not with GBBO?
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,022
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    I know you have to treat the Daily Express as the ultimate Brexit paper but they are reporting Developing Countries and others are losing interest in trade deals with the EU on UK's exit. Very interesting if true and when you think about it it does make sense

    The President of the Philippines also told the EU to 'F*** Off!' only yesterday
    http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/712818/F-you-EU-Philippines-president-blasts-Brussels-over-anti-crime-killings
    Hasn't he told almost everyone to f off..
    Well Obama certainly
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    BBC News today also featuring the police shootings of black people. Note that tonight's 10pm news said it was a matter of race, but omitted the fact that in Charlotte the policeman who fired the shot is also black.

    I suppose you could make the case that black policemen have become normalised to expect and stereotype black people as criminals.

    Whether the (innocent) black person who was shot in Charlotte was merely exercising his constitutional second ammendment rights, or the gun was planted, it was a case of trigger happy cops, and another dead black person.

    Though of course policing in a gun crazy America would make anyone a little twitchy with the trigger finger.
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,723
    Ishmael_X said:

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2016/09/22/hillary_clinton_why_arent_i_50_points_ahead.html

    Hillary tries to inject some passion - "'Why aren't I 50 points ahead,' you might ask."

    Gosh. Trump "got where he is by stiffing small businesses". I am glad the level of political discourse over here is a slight improvement on that.
    He did. He's a prize shit. Fact.
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    mattmatt Posts: 3,789
    MTimT said:

    RobD said:

    Thanks. Seems like they're both at it, though.

    This is as old as Airbus. Even back in business school in 1990 we looked at the claims and counter-claims. US claims government direct subsidies of Airbus, EU claims US government does the same but disguises it as defence contracts.

    PS In American Football there is a useful concept applicable here - off-setting penalties.
    Yes, with the subtelty that the EU can see tax breaks as subsidy: see Apple et al. Not the same in the US - witness the bribes to have Boejng stay in Wash./move facilities to other states.

    There were adverse WTO rulings 5years ago when I was looking at this professionally. The interesting thing about WTO sanctions is that they are against country not industry. So look for emotional punch points - Scottish whisky for example.
This discussion has been closed.