politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » This week’s PB/Polling Matters TV show
Comments
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I don't recall that democracy requires the suppression of all dissenting opinion after a vote.Mortimer said:
Yup.FeersumEnjineeya said:LEAVE 52%
REMAIN 48%
It's the PB equivalent of yelling MORNINGTON CRESCENT! Game over. No more discussion.
The people have spoken.
Don't you love the smell of democracy in the morning?0 -
And I don't recall that democracy empowers the losers with decision making capabilities. Or did I miss Ed Miliband becoming a cabinet minister after 2015 GE?FeersumEnjineeya said:
I don't recall that democracy requires the suppression of all dissenting opinion after a vote.Mortimer said:
Yup.FeersumEnjineeya said:LEAVE 52%
REMAIN 48%
It's the PB equivalent of yelling MORNINGTON CRESCENT! Game over. No more discussion.
The people have spoken.
Don't you love the smell of democracy in the morning?0 -
One of the losers is Prime Minister, remember? You must have missed it.Mortimer said:
And I don't recall that democracy empowers the losers with decision making capabilities. Or did I miss Ed Miliband becoming a cabinet minister after 2015 GE?FeersumEnjineeya said:
I don't recall that democracy requires the suppression of all dissenting opinion after a vote.Mortimer said:
Yup.FeersumEnjineeya said:LEAVE 52%
REMAIN 48%
It's the PB equivalent of yelling MORNINGTON CRESCENT! Game over. No more discussion.
The people have spoken.
Don't you love the smell of democracy in the morning?0 -
Enacting the policy of the winners.williamglenn said:
One of the losers is Prime Minister remember?Mortimer said:
And I don't recall that democracy empowers the losers with decision making capabilities.FeersumEnjineeya said:
I don't recall that democracy requires the suppression of all dissenting opinion after a vote.Mortimer said:
Yup.FeersumEnjineeya said:LEAVE 52%
REMAIN 48%
It's the PB equivalent of yelling MORNINGTON CRESCENT! Game over. No more discussion.
The people have spoken.
Don't you love the smell of democracy in the morning?
Only moaners seem to be trying to get in her way.
Brexit means Brexit.0 -
Nevertheless, the BCC is an elected body with executive powers, and no-one is proposing that it should be disbanded merely because the inhabitants of Birmingham may feel more British than Brummie.Mortimer said:
There is - and I guess you could count on the fingers of one hand how many people would be prepared to wave a BCC flag....FeersumEnjineeya said:
There is of, course, a Birmingham City Council.Mortimer said:
Yup - but in doing so you identified no definitive political structure. There is no English parliament. No Midland assembly.FeersumEnjineeya said:
Erm, I was disagreeing with you.Mortimer said:
Quite. Only one real demos, real political structure in England. The UK.FeersumEnjineeya said:
It's quite possible to feel both British and European, depending on the context. In my case, I'm also an Englishman, a Midlander and a Brummie as the situation demands.Mortimer said:
Why? It makes sense for individuals to have more affinity with one political structure than more than one, no?williamglenn said:
It shouldn't be an either/or question.Mortimer said:
Ask the public if they associate with UK or EU and it'll be something like 90/10 UK....williamglenn said:
It makes sense for political structures to be congruent with people's identities, no? Given that there is a European federation it is natural for people to wish to see their own European nation play a full part in it and not sit on the sidelines.FrancisUrquhart said:
"The EU flag campaigner said she did not expect everyone to take one. “We’ll hand out as many as possible, we’ve got thousands. This is not really about the remain, leave debate, it is a celebration of what we’ve got now ... this is what the EU has done for music."AndyJS said:Pro-EU protesters planning to make their presence felt at the Last Night Of The Proms:
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2016/sep/07/pro-eu-protest-planned-for-last-night-of-the-proms
What I find weird is that lots of people don't seem to be able to separate Europe / European countries from the political unions that is the EU.0 -
The difference, of course, is that the BCC although directly elected, exists at the whim of the British government.FeersumEnjineeya said:
Nevertheless, the BCC is an elected body with executive powers, and no-one is proposing that it should be disbanded merely because the inhabitants of Birmingham may feel more British than Brummie.Mortimer said:
There is - and I guess you could count on the fingers of one hand how many people would be prepared to wave a BCC flag....FeersumEnjineeya said:
There is of, course, a Birmingham City Council.Mortimer said:
Yup - but in doing so you identified no definitive political structure. There is no English parliament. No Midland assembly.FeersumEnjineeya said:
Erm, I was disagreeing with you.Mortimer said:
Quite. Only one real demos, real political structure in England. The UK.FeersumEnjineeya said:
It's quite possible to feel both British and European, depending on the context. In my case, I'm also an Englishman, a Midlander and a Brummie as the situation demands.Mortimer said:
Why? It makes sense for individuals to have more affinity with one political structure than more than one, no?williamglenn said:
It shouldn't be an either/or question.Mortimer said:
Ask the public if they associate with UK or EU and it'll be something like 90/10 UK....williamglenn said:
It makes sense for political structures to be congruent with people's identities, no? Given that there is a European federation it is natural for people to wish to see their own European nation play a full part in it and not sit on the sidelines.FrancisUrquhart said:
"The EU flag campaigner said she did not expect everyone to take one. “We’ll hand out as many as possible, we’ve got thousands. This is not really about the remain, leave debate, it is a celebration of what we’ve got now ... this is what the EU has done for music."AndyJS said:Pro-EU protesters planning to make their presence felt at the Last Night Of The Proms:
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2016/sep/07/pro-eu-protest-planned-for-last-night-of-the-proms
What I find weird is that lots of people don't seem to be able to separate Europe / European countries from the political unions that is the EU.0 -
This is for HYUFD as his Ted Cruz will be the GOP nominee in 2020 stories:
https://twitter.com/mkraju/status/7736542957910548520 -
A circular argument. You're justifying the supremacy of the British government on the basis of its supremacy.Mortimer said:
The difference, of course, is that the BCC although directly elected, exists at the whim of the British government.FeersumEnjineeya said:
Nevertheless, the BCC is an elected body with executive powers, and no-one is proposing that it should be disbanded merely because the inhabitants of Birmingham may feel more British than Brummie.Mortimer said:
There is - and I guess you could count on the fingers of one hand how many people would be prepared to wave a BCC flag....FeersumEnjineeya said:
There is of, course, a Birmingham City Council.Mortimer said:
Yup - but in doing so you identified no definitive political structure. There is no English parliament. No Midland assembly.FeersumEnjineeya said:
Erm, I was disagreeing with you.Mortimer said:
Quite. Only one real demos, real political structure in England. The UK.FeersumEnjineeya said:
It's quite possible to feel both British and European, depending on the context. In my case, I'm also an Englishman, a Midlander and a Brummie as the situation demands.Mortimer said:
Why? It makes sense for individuals to have more affinity with one political structure than more than one, no?williamglenn said:
It shouldn't be an either/or question.Mortimer said:
Ask the public if they associate with UK or EU and it'll be something like 90/10 UK....williamglenn said:
It makes sense for political structures to be congruent with people's identities, no? Given that there is a European federation it is natural for people to wish to see their own European nation play a full part in it and not sit on the sidelines.FrancisUrquhart said:
"The EU flag campaigner said she did not expect everyone to take one. “We’ll hand out as many as possible, we’ve got thousands. This is not really about the remain, leave debate, it is a celebration of what we’ve got now ... this is what the EU has done for music."AndyJS said:Pro-EU protesters planning to make their presence felt at the Last Night Of The Proms:
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2016/sep/07/pro-eu-protest-planned-for-last-night-of-the-proms
What I find weird is that lots of people don't seem to be able to separate Europe / European countries from the political unions that is the EU.0 -
Not the case, actually. I'm justifying the supremacy of the British government on the basis that it is the most supreme political institution that our people feel allegiant too.FeersumEnjineeya said:
A circular argument. You're justifying the supremacy of the British government on the basis of its supremacy.Mortimer said:
The difference, of course, is that the BCC although directly elected, exists at the whim of the British government.FeersumEnjineeya said:
Nevertheless, the BCC is an elected body with executive powers, and no-one is proposing that it should be disbanded merely because the inhabitants of Birmingham may feel more British than Brummie.Mortimer said:
There is - and I guess you could count on the fingers of one hand how many people would be prepared to wave a BCC flag....FeersumEnjineeya said:
There is of, course, a Birmingham City Council.Mortimer said:
Yup - but in doing so you identified no definitive political structure. There is no English parliament. No Midland assembly.FeersumEnjineeya said:
Erm, I was disagreeing with you.Mortimer said:
Quite. Only one real demos, real political structure in England. The UK.FeersumEnjineeya said:
It's quite possible to feel both British and European, depending on the context. In my case, I'm also an Englishman, a Midlander and a Brummie as the situation demands.Mortimer said:
Why? It makes sense for individuals to have more affinity with one political structure than more than one, no?williamglenn said:
It shouldn't be an either/or question.Mortimer said:
Ask the public if they associate with UK or EU and it'll be something like 90/10 UK....williamglenn said:
It makes sense for political structures to be congruent with people's identities, no? Given that there is a European federation it is natural for people to wish to see their own European nation play a full part in it and not sit on the sidelines.FrancisUrquhart said:
...AndyJS said:Pro-EU protesters planning to make their presence felt at the Last Night Of The Proms:
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2016/sep/07/pro-eu-protest-planned-for-last-night-of-the-proms
And trying to make you understand that just because you happen to feel allegiant to Brum, that is no reason not to LEAVE.
(And I say this as a Baggie!)0 -
I never claimed that my (occasional) allegiance to Brum was a reason for anything! The only point I was making was that it is possible to feel allegiance to different scales of political entity. This was in response to your implication that feeling British and feeling European are mutually exclusive possibilities. When in Europe, I tend to feel British - or, to honest, English - while when in the US, for example, I tend to feel, and often be treated as, European. (When in yam-yam land, though, I'm Brummie.)Mortimer said:
Not the case, actually. I'm justifying the supremacy of the British government on the basis that it is the most supreme political institution that our people feel allegiant too.FeersumEnjineeya said:
A circular argument. You're justifying the supremacy of the British government on the basis of its supremacy.Mortimer said:
The difference, of course, is that the BCC although directly elected, exists at the whim of the British government.FeersumEnjineeya said:
Nevertheless, the BCC is an elected body with executive powers, and no-one is proposing that it should be disbanded merely because the inhabitants of Birmingham may feel more British than Brummie.Mortimer said:
There is - and I guess you could count on the fingers of one hand how many people would be prepared to wave a BCC flag....FeersumEnjineeya said:
There is of, course, a Birmingham City Council.Mortimer said:
Yup - but in doing so you identified no definitive political structure. There is no English parliament. No Midland assembly.FeersumEnjineeya said:
Erm, I was disagreeing with you.Mortimer said:
Quite. Only one real demos, real political structure in England. The UK.FeersumEnjineeya said:
It's quite possible to feel both British and European, depending on the context. In my case, I'm also an Englishman, a Midlander and a Brummie as the situation demands.Mortimer said:
Why? It makes sense for individuals to have more affinity with one political structure than more than one, no?williamglenn said:
It shouldn't be an either/or question.Mortimer said:<
Ask the public if they associate with UK or EU and it'll be something like 90/10 UK....
And trying to make you understand that just because you happen to feel allegiant to Brum, that is no reason not to LEAVE.
(And I say this as a Baggie!)0 -
Derek Hunter
"I have a lot of experience dealing with classified material." - @HillaryClinton explaining why she didn't recognize classified markings.
This NBC forum is painful viewing0 -
My allegiance is to the Kingdom of MerciaFeersumEnjineeya said:
I never claimed that my (occasional) allegiance to Brum was a reason for anything! The only point I was making was that it is possible to feel allegiance to different scales of political entity. This was in response to your implication that feeling British and feeling European are mutually exclusive possibilities. When in Europe, I tend to feel British - or, to honest, English - while when in the US, for example, I tend to feel, and often be treated as, European. (When in yam-yam land, though, I'm Brummie.)Mortimer said:
Not the case, actually. I'm justifying the supremacy of the British government on the basis that it is the most supreme political institution that our people feel allegiant too.FeersumEnjineeya said:
A circular argument. You're justifying the supremacy of the British government on the basis of its supremacy.Mortimer said:
The difference, of course, is that the BCC although directly elected, exists at the whim of the British government.FeersumEnjineeya said:
Nevertheless, the BCC is an elected body with executive powers, and no-one is proposing that it should be disbanded merely because the inhabitants of Birmingham may feel more British than Brummie.Mortimer said:
There is - and I guess you could count on the fingers of one hand how many people would be prepared to wave a BCC flag....FeersumEnjineeya said:
There is of, course, a Birmingham City Council.Mortimer said:
Yup - but in doing so you identified no definitive political structure. There is no English parliament. No Midland assembly.FeersumEnjineeya said:
Erm, I was disagreeing with you.Mortimer said:
Quite. Only one real demos, real political structure in England. The UK.FeersumEnjineeya said:
It's quite possible to feel both British and European, depending on the context. In my case, I'm also an Englishman, a Midlander and a Brummie as the situation demands.Mortimer said:
Why? It makes sense for individuals to have more affinity with one political structure than more than one, no?williamglenn said:
It shouldn't be an either/or question.Mortimer said:<
Ask the public if they associate with UK or EU and it'll be something like 90/10 UK....
And trying to make you understand that just because you happen to feel allegiant to Brum, that is no reason not to LEAVE.
(And I say this as a Baggie!)0 -
My meeting was cancelled today. My clients were flying into London city this morning but after yesterday LC are still catching up
Cost a lot of money for us
Well done guys way to go..... BLM0 -
NBC
WATCH: Navy vet asks Clinton how she expects those with access to classified info to trust her #NBCNewsForum https://t.co/dXTCqjmfHd0 -
Hillary started badly with the emails.
However she is deflecting every question and turning it on Trump.0 -
Of the ABC she obviously does not understand the CPlatoSaid said:Derek Hunter
"I have a lot of experience dealing with classified material." - @HillaryClinton explaining why she didn't recognize classified markings.
This NBC forum is painful viewing0 -
Hillary's strategy:
Waffle with as many useless details as possible, then say Trump did the same mistakes as I did.0 -
One thing is sure, Hillary has the same strategy for defeating ISIS as Trump.
Now she is waffling about her achievements in Afghanistan.0 -
That was it ?
It was terrible.
So Hillary waffled the whole time and occasionally attacked Trump for a few seconds each time.
Her last answer lasted 4 minutes talking non stop with so much waffle I forgot what the question was.
I give her 4/10, just for not doing any gaffes.
Her whole performance was like content free.0 -
Is it possible to get a website link to this??
Edit- ok sounds like I am too late0 -
My view on grammar schools: if they're not popular with the upper classes and wealthy, they have to be a good idea almost by definition.0
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Jackie Kunichi
The campaigns agreed to this forum though. Pretty sure at least one is regretting that now. https://t.co/56xpKkbpep0 -
How did she come across health wise?0
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Trump's turn.
His strategy seems to be " the world is scamming us".
Lying with bluster.
Trump said the word regret about inflammatory things.0 -
Trump effectively said that american generals are pussies.
Now we are back to ISIS, what is Trump's plan.
Trump:
We go in we beat them and we don't know what we are doing, Iraq, Iran, Obama, TAKE THE OIL.
(If Hillary's performance was sleepy, Trump's is WTF)0 -
I disagree that Hillary's performance was perfect, it was terrible but it lacked gaffes.williamglenn said:0 -
Trump:
John Kerry is a disaster, the experts said the opposite of Obama.
Immigration now.
Trump is open to legalize immigrants that served in the military, that's new.
Now back to foreign policy.
Trump:
China is disrespectful, I will have a great relationship with Russia.
I will get along.
Now they are debating about how great Putin is.0 -
Washington Examiner
WATCH: Veteran confronts Hillary Clinton on her handling of classified information https://t.co/uWaNJKTIUL https://t.co/NulqYNSUJ40 -
Sahil Kapur
Trump just suggested he's open to letting undocumented people who serve in the military gain legal status.0 -
Military veterans now.
Trump:
"I have a great relationship with the vets"
"people are dying waiting in line"
Trump knows a statistic, 22 veterans kill themselves each day.
His plan is I think the government to fund private insurance for veterans.
Now another question about sexual assaults.
Trump is more fluid in his performance, taking a lot more questions than Hillary.
What are you doing to learn about the military and foreign policy?
"I met 88 generals and admirals, I also run a campaign and business"0 -
Oh dear
.@realDonaldTrump says "Best thing we can do" on sexual assault in the military "is set up a court system within the military."0 -
NBC
Trump: ISIS would not have formed "if we would've taken the oil"
#NBCNewsForum
Watch live: https://t.co/r5knQOlmKe https://t.co/JvcKUKRR3k0 -
In 2012, @MittRomney endorsed legal status only for those who serve in military, like Trump just did. (Via @NPR) https://t.co/PfUoD43com0 -
Thats a revolutionary idea, I wonder why nobody has ever thought that before ;-)PlatoSaid said:Oh dear
.@realDonaldTrump says "Best thing we can do" on sexual assault in the military "is set up a court system within the military."0 -
"We should have taken their oil"
How can anyone vote for this bufoon?0 -
How was Hillary on the cough-o-meter?0
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I guess he's never watched the Good Wife either.FrancisUrquhart said:
Thats a revolutionary idea, I wonder why nobody has ever thought that before ;-)PlatoSaid said:Oh dear
.@realDonaldTrump says "Best thing we can do" on sexual assault in the military "is set up a court system within the military."0 -
I get these coughing fits sometimes, not a big deal. Believe me, believe me.FrancisUrquhart said:How was Hillary on the cough-o-meter?
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And that's it.
Trump tried to make a nice closing argument filled with Make America Great/Strong Again.
Although his performance was much much more entertaining than Hillary's, it was also worse.
The segment where they ended up debating how popular Putin is was suicidal.
And he completely failed to persuade me that he is even trying to know about military or foreign policy, but he did persuade me that he is trying on military healthcare.
He was also very comfortable with the crowd and taking questions from them, the reverse of Hillary.
And gave an interesting answer about legalizing immigrants who sign up for the military, and coasted through the Khan and McCain controversies.
I give him 3/10.
It was like the audience was hoping that he would do ok, but his performance still lacks by a mile (his Putin stuff was the killer for me, without it he would have done ok).0 -
I'm not really fussed about the Putin stuff. The leader of US Communist party has endorsed Hillary.Speedy said:And that's it.
Trump tried to make a nice closing argument filled with Make America Great/Strong Again.
Although his performance was much much more entertaining than Hillary's, it was also worse.
The segment where they ended up debating how popular Putin is was suicidal.
And he completely failed to persuade me that he is even trying to know about military or foreign policy, but he did persuade me that he is trying on military healthcare.
He was also very comfortable with the crowd and taking questions from them, the reverse of Hillary.
And gave an interesting answer about legalizing immigrants who sign up for the military, and coasted through the Khan and McCain controversies.
I give him 3/10.
It was like the audience was hoping that he would do ok, but his performance still lacks by a mile (his Putin stuff was the killer for me, without it he would have done ok).0 -
Summing it up.
Hillary can bore you to death with waffle, and it's plainly obvious that she hates people.
Trump would probably lease half of America to Putin in exchange for a compliment, and it's plainly obvious that he loves people and loves to please the crowd.
Interestingly neither attacked each other much, it was mostly positive.0 -
But how many know that communists have endorsed Hillary?PlatoSaid said:
I'm not really fussed about the Putin stuff. The leader of US Communist party has endorsed Hillary.Speedy said:And that's it.
Trump tried to make a nice closing argument filled with Make America Great/Strong Again.
Although his performance was much much more entertaining than Hillary's, it was also worse.
The segment where they ended up debating how popular Putin is was suicidal.
And he completely failed to persuade me that he is even trying to know about military or foreign policy, but he did persuade me that he is trying on military healthcare.
He was also very comfortable with the crowd and taking questions from them, the reverse of Hillary.
And gave an interesting answer about legalizing immigrants who sign up for the military, and coasted through the Khan and McCain controversies.
I give him 3/10.
It was like the audience was hoping that he would do ok, but his performance still lacks by a mile (his Putin stuff was the killer for me, without it he would have done ok).
Anyway I'm fussed, this was a forum about military and foreign policy, you are supposed to be appear patriotic, not to lick a foreign leader's behinds.
If it wasn't for the Putin love stuff Trump would have easily beaten Hillary, so it depends on how many really care about it.0 -
Frank Luntz
Tonight's #NBCNewsForum will be a wash.
Clinton's demeanor will turn off many voters, as will Trump's vagueness during a 30-minute Q&A.0 -
How many divisions does he have?PlatoSaid said:The leader of US Communist party has endorsed Hillary.
0 -
PlatoSaid said:
I'm not really fussed about the Putin stuff. The leader of US Communist party has endorsed Hillary. </blocSpeedy said:And that's it.
Trump tried to make a nice closing argument filled with Make America Great/Strong Again.
Although his performance was much much more entertaining than Hillary's, it was also worse.
The segment where they ended up debating how popular Putin is was suicidal.
And he completely failed to persuade me that he is even trying to know about military or foreign policy, but he did persuade me that he is trying on military healthcare.
He was also very comfortable with the crowd and taking questions from them, the reverse of Hillary.
And gave an interesting answer about legalizing immigrants who sign up for the military, and coasted through the Khan and McCain controversies.
I give him 3/10.
It was like the audience was hoping that he would do ok, but his performance still lacks by a mile (his Putin stuff was the killer for me, without it he would have done ok).
Desperate.0 -
I don't know about the Good Wife, but in the primary campaign he talked a lot about Bowe Bergdahl (e.g. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3266528/Donald-Trump-Bowe-Bergdahl-EXECUTED-desertion.html)PlatoSaid said:
I guess he's never watched the Good Wife either.FrancisUrquhart said:
Thats a revolutionary idea, I wonder why nobody has ever thought that before ;-)PlatoSaid said:Oh dear
.@realDonaldTrump says "Best thing we can do" on sexual assault in the military "is set up a court system within the military."
so it seems surprising that he's forgotten that military courts exist.0 -
I agree in that both did a bad performance, with Trump doing a bit worse because of the Putin stuff.PlatoSaid said:Frank Luntz
Tonight's #NBCNewsForum will be a wash.
Clinton's demeanor will turn off many voters, as will Trump's vagueness during a 30-minute Q&A.
But both Hillary and Trump were vague, in their own style of course, I much more preferred Trump's vagueness style than Hillary's though.
Hillary reminded me of Gordon Brown at his worst.
Goodnight.0 -
Did you hear when he said Putin has 82% support in his country....Speedy said:And that's it.
Trump tried to make a nice closing argument filled with Make America Great/Strong Again.
Although his performance was much much more entertaining than Hillary's, it was also worse.
The segment where they ended up debating how popular Putin is was suicidal.
And he completely failed to persuade me that he is even trying to know about military or foreign policy, but he did persuade me that he is trying on military healthcare.
He was also very comfortable with the crowd and taking questions from them, the reverse of Hillary.
And gave an interesting answer about legalizing immigrants who sign up for the military, and coasted through the Khan and McCain controversies.
I give him 3/10.
It was like the audience was hoping that he would do ok, but his performance still lacks by a mile (his Putin stuff was the killer for me, without it he would have done ok).0 -
Well Trump did coast through the Khan and McCain controversies in a military forum like they never happened, I guess you can count it as a plus.nunu said:
Did you hear when he said Putin has 82% support in his country....Speedy said:And that's it.
Trump tried to make a nice closing argument filled with Make America Great/Strong Again.
Although his performance was much much more entertaining than Hillary's, it was also worse.
The segment where they ended up debating how popular Putin is was suicidal.
And he completely failed to persuade me that he is even trying to know about military or foreign policy, but he did persuade me that he is trying on military healthcare.
He was also very comfortable with the crowd and taking questions from them, the reverse of Hillary.
And gave an interesting answer about legalizing immigrants who sign up for the military, and coasted through the Khan and McCain controversies.
I give him 3/10.
It was like the audience was hoping that he would do ok, but his performance still lacks by a mile (his Putin stuff was the killer for me, without it he would have done ok).
But the Putin stuff bothers me in that it created the impression to me that Trump would sell his country for a compliment.0 -
Luckily at my primary, throughout Junior level (7 years to 11 years) we had regular "Interval tests", weekly spelling and mental arithmetic tests, and in the run-up to 11-plus, practice verbal/non-verbal reasoning papers. Eight of us in our class went on to Grammar School, inc. yous trulyAndyJS said:My view on grammar schools: if they're not popular with the upper classes and wealthy, they have to be a good idea almost by definition.
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Even Brum voted LEAVE - just!FeersumEnjineeya said:
There is, of course, a Birmingham City Council.Mortimer said:
Yup - but in doing so you identified no definitive political structure. There is no English parliament. No Midland assembly.FeersumEnjineeya said:
Erm, I was disagreeing with you.Mortimer said:
Quite. Only one real demos, real political structure in England. The UK.FeersumEnjineeya said:
It's quite possible to feel both British and European, depending on the context. In my case, I'm also an Englishman, a Midlander and a Brummie as the situation demands.Mortimer said:
Why? It makes sense for individuals to have more affinity with one political structure than more than one, no?williamglenn said:
It shouldn't be an either/or question.Mortimer said:
Ask the public if they associate with UK or EU and it'll be something like 90/10 UK....williamglenn said:
It makes sense for political structures to be congruent with people's identities, no? Given that there is a European federation it is natural for people to wish to see their own European nation play a full part in it and not sit on the sidelines.FrancisUrquhart said:
"The EU flag campaigner said she did not expect everyone to take one. “We’ll hand out as many as possible, we’ve got thousands. This is not really about the remain, leave debate, it is a celebration of what we’ve got now ... this is what the EU has done for music."AndyJS said:Pro-EU protesters planning to make their presence felt at the Last Night Of The Proms:
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2016/sep/07/pro-eu-protest-planned-for-last-night-of-the-proms
What I find weird is that lots of people don't seem to be able to separate Europe / European countries from the political unions that is the EU.0 -
What bothers me is he actually vseems to have no idea what he is talking about. Like seriously just take their oil? What? How ? What? The actual fuck, I know you don't like Hillary and want the proletariat to overturn the bourgeoisie going on your support for Corbyn and Trump but he is not the one to do it. o_OSpeedy said:
Well Trump did coast through the Khan and McCain controversies in a military forum like they never happened, I guess you can count it as a plus.nunu said:
Did you hear when he said Putin has 82% support in his country....Speedy said:And that's it.
Trump tried to make a nice closing argument filled with Make America Great/Strong Again.
Although his performance was much much more entertaining than Hillary's, it was also worse.
The segment where they ended up debating how popular Putin is was suicidal.
And he completely failed to persuade me that he is even trying to know about military or foreign policy, but he did persuade me that he is trying on military healthcare.
He was also very comfortable with the crowd and taking questions from them, the reverse of Hillary.
And gave an interesting answer about legalizing immigrants who sign up for the military, and coasted through the Khan and McCain controversies.
I give him 3/10.
It was like the audience was hoping that he would do ok, but his performance still lacks by a mile (his Putin stuff was the killer for me, without it he would have done ok).
But the Putin stuff bothers me in that it created the impression to me that Trump would sell his country for a compliment.0 -
-
Re troops quote from Hillary
Clinton: "We are not putting ground troops into Iraq ever again, and we're not putting ground troops into Syria." https://t.co/J40mfT0H0f
David French
That's news to around 5,000 men and women already there. https://t.co/HK7EZ99N8f0 -
Hillary was just channelling Putin who denied sending troops to Ukraine but neglected to mention that they were already there.PlatoSaid said:Re troops quote from Hillary
Clinton: "We are not putting ground troops into Iraq ever again, and we're not putting ground troops into Syria." https://t.co/J40mfT0H0f
David French
That's news to around 5,000 men and women already there. https://t.co/HK7EZ99N8f0 -
Trumps new best friend it seems.....williamglenn said:
Hillary was just channelling Putin who denied sending troops to Ukraine but neglected to mention that they were already there.PlatoSaid said:Re troops quote from Hillary
Clinton: "We are not putting ground troops into Iraq ever again, and we're not putting ground troops into Syria." https://t.co/J40mfT0H0f
David French
That's news to around 5,000 men and women already there. https://t.co/HK7EZ99N8f0 -
People seriously repost Chris Matthews tweets as if they are anything but craven democratic sycophancy.williamglenn said:
This is the man who got 'a thrill up his leg' whenever Obama spoke
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=no9fpKVXxCc0 -
Have I missed a debate?
0 -
A forum.RobD said:Have I missed a debate?
The media consensus is this:
https://twitter.com/jonathanchait/status/773712777529688068
They are not happy that Trump got away with it.
Maybe the forum wasn't as much of a disaster for Trump as I thought.
0 -
Looks like he does:nunu said:
Did you hear when he said Putin has 82% support in his country....Speedy said:And that's it.
Trump tried to make a nice closing argument filled with Make America Great/Strong Again.
Although his performance was much much more entertaining than Hillary's, it was also worse.
The segment where they ended up debating how popular Putin is was suicidal.
And he completely failed to persuade me that he is even trying to know about military or foreign policy, but he did persuade me that he is trying on military healthcare.
He was also very comfortable with the crowd and taking questions from them, the reverse of Hillary.
And gave an interesting answer about legalizing immigrants who sign up for the military, and coasted through the Khan and McCain controversies.
I give him 3/10.
It was like the audience was hoping that he would do ok, but his performance still lacks by a mile (his Putin stuff was the killer for me, without it he would have done ok).
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/how-to-understand-putins-jaw-droppingly-high-approval-ratings/2016/03/05/17f5d8f2-d5ba-11e5-a65b-587e721fb231_story.html0 -
The Telegraph: Kremlin-backed broadcaster RT offers Nigel Farage his own show. http://google.com/newsstand/s/CBIw2er0yS00
-
Katie Hopkins appears to be the Friedrich Hayek of the alt-right.YellowSubmarine said:The Telegraph: Kremlin-backed broadcaster RT offers Nigel Farage his own show. http://google.com/newsstand/s/CBIw2er0yS0
The former Ukip leader is one of a number of outspoken public figures, including the columnist Katie Hopkins, who is understood to have held talks with the pro-Moscow broadcaster.
https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/6749368320108871680 -
CBC News: 'The last 100 days': How a lame-duck Obama presidency might play out. http://google.com/newsstand/s/CBIwkdvYyS00
-
City A.M.: Government shelves Land Registry sell-off. http://google.com/newsstand/s/CBIwy7-98C00
-
Did seem a bit silly to privatise the land registry. Surely it is of strategic national interest?YellowSubmarine said:City A.M.: Government shelves Land Registry sell-off. http://google.com/newsstand/s/CBIwy7-98C0
0 -
Merchandise sales suggest a big enthusiasm lead for Trump.
http://www.bizjournals.com/louisville/news/2016/09/02/trump-or-clintonwhy-cafepress-sales-might-be-the.html
As for the outcome of this election, we'll find out for sure come November. But if we follow CafePress' sales so far this year, Trump is winning by a little more than 20 percent.
So far this year, Clinton-bashing merchandise sales have been a whopping 814.88 percent higher than that for anti-Trump merchandise.0 -
The Jerusalem Post - Israel News: A new law aims to make building churches in Egypt easier – but will it work? http://google.com/newsstand/s/CBIwj52vxy00
-
How surprising is it really that the customer base in Kentucky (OK, for an Internet firm based there) for badges, baseball caps and bumper stickers with political slogans on them leans toward Trump?williamglenn said:Merchandise sales suggest a big enthusiasm lead for Trump.
http://www.bizjournals.com/louisville/news/2016/09/02/trump-or-clintonwhy-cafepress-sales-might-be-the.html
As for the outcome of this election, we'll find out for sure come November. But if we follow CafePress' sales so far this year, Trump is winning by a little more than 20 percent.
So far this year, Clinton-bashing merchandise sales have been a whopping 814.88 percent higher than that for anti-Trump merchandise.0 -
Not sure the physical location of a company that mainly sells things via the internet actually mattersIanB2 said:
How surprising is it really that the customer base in Kentucky (OK, for an Internet firm based there) for badges, baseball caps and bumper stickers with political slogans on them leans toward Trump?williamglenn said:Merchandise sales suggest a big enthusiasm lead for Trump.
http://www.bizjournals.com/louisville/news/2016/09/02/trump-or-clintonwhy-cafepress-sales-might-be-the.html
As for the outcome of this election, we'll find out for sure come November. But if we follow CafePress' sales so far this year, Trump is winning by a little more than 20 percent.
So far this year, Clinton-bashing merchandise sales have been a whopping 814.88 percent higher than that for anti-Trump merchandise.
0 -
Its not a democracy.RobD said:
Looks like he does:nunu said:
Did you hear when he said Putin has 82% support in his country....Speedy said:And that's it.
Trump tried to make a nice closing argument filled with Make America Great/Strong Again.
Although his performance was much much more entertaining than Hillary's, it was also worse.
The segment where they ended up debating how popular Putin is was suicidal.
And he completely failed to persuade me that he is even trying to know about military or foreign policy, but he did persuade me that he is trying on military healthcare.
He was also very comfortable with the crowd and taking questions from them, the reverse of Hillary.
And gave an interesting answer about legalizing immigrants who sign up for the military, and coasted through the Khan and McCain controversies.
I give him 3/10.
It was like the audience was hoping that he would do ok, but his performance still lacks by a mile (his Putin stuff was the killer for me, without it he would have done ok).
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/how-to-understand-putins-jaw-droppingly-high-approval-ratings/2016/03/05/17f5d8f2-d5ba-11e5-a65b-587e721fb231_story.html0 -
The really frustrating thing about the US elections is that they have some really serious and quality politicians.
For instance I watched a Hard Talk interview between Sarah Montague and Lindsey Graham. He's really very very impressive.0 -
Any evidence to suggest the poll is rigged?nunu said:
Its not a democracy.RobD said:
Looks like he does:nunu said:
Did you hear when he said Putin has 82% support in his country....Speedy said:And that's it.
Trump tried to make a nice closing argument filled with Make America Great/Strong Again.
Although his performance was much much more entertaining than Hillary's, it was also worse.
The segment where they ended up debating how popular Putin is was suicidal.
And he completely failed to persuade me that he is even trying to know about military or foreign policy, but he did persuade me that he is trying on military healthcare.
He was also very comfortable with the crowd and taking questions from them, the reverse of Hillary.
And gave an interesting answer about legalizing immigrants who sign up for the military, and coasted through the Khan and McCain controversies.
I give him 3/10.
It was like the audience was hoping that he would do ok, but his performance still lacks by a mile (his Putin stuff was the killer for me, without it he would have done ok).
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/how-to-understand-putins-jaw-droppingly-high-approval-ratings/2016/03/05/17f5d8f2-d5ba-11e5-a65b-587e721fb231_story.html0 -
Dunno what it is, but American politics just seems so.. crap.Charles said:The really frustrating thing about the US elections is that they have some really serious and quality politicians.
For instance I watched a Hard Talk interview between Sarah Montague and Lindsey Graham. He's really very very impressive.0 -
There is a hardcore that will vote for Trump no matter what probably about 40% but the quotes the main news channels are using are not good for him. Believe me that take their oil line will lose him moderate Republicans.Speedy said:
A forum.RobD said:Have I missed a debate?
The media consensus is this:
https://twitter.com/jonathanchait/status/773712777529688068
They are not happy that Trump got away with it.
Maybe the forum wasn't as much of a disaster for Trump as I thought.0 -
Wishful thinking. Trump's 'take the oil' has been a common refrain since the primaries. He's winning the race.nunu said:
There is a hardcore that will vote for Trump no matter what probably about 40% but the quotes the main news channels are using are not good for him. Believe me that take their oil line will lose him moderate Republicans.Speedy said:
A forum.RobD said:Have I missed a debate?
The media consensus is this:
https://twitter.com/jonathanchait/status/773712777529688068
They are not happy that Trump got away with it.
Maybe the forum wasn't as much of a disaster for Trump as I thought.0 -
I don't think he's winning... he certainly has closed the gap though.williamglenn said:
Wishful thinking. Trump's 'take the oil' has been a common refrain since the primaries. He's winning the race.nunu said:
There is a hardcore that will vote for Trump no matter what probably about 40% but the quotes the main news channels are using are not good for him. Believe me that take their oil line will lose him moderate Republicans.Speedy said:
A forum.RobD said:Have I missed a debate?
The media consensus is this:
https://twitter.com/jonathanchait/status/773712777529688068
They are not happy that Trump got away with it.
Maybe the forum wasn't as much of a disaster for Trump as I thought.0 -
Hillary4Prison was an inspired t-shirt idea. It's very funny.williamglenn said:Merchandise sales suggest a big enthusiasm lead for Trump.
http://www.bizjournals.com/louisville/news/2016/09/02/trump-or-clintonwhy-cafepress-sales-might-be-the.html
As for the outcome of this election, we'll find out for sure come November. But if we follow CafePress' sales so far this year, Trump is winning by a little more than 20 percent.
So far this year, Clinton-bashing merchandise sales have been a whopping 814.88 percent higher than that for anti-Trump merchandise.0 -
That's right. Nate's track record is good:RobD said:
I don't think he's winning... he certainly has closed the gap though.williamglenn said:
Wishful thinking. Trump's 'take the oil' has been a common refrain since the primaries. He's winning the race.nunu said:
There is a hardcore that will vote for Trump no matter what probably about 40% but the quotes the main news channels are using are not good for him. Believe me that take their oil line will lose him moderate Republicans.Speedy said:
A forum.RobD said:Have I missed a debate?
The media consensus is this:
https://twitter.com/jonathanchait/status/773712777529688068
They are not happy that Trump got away with it.
Maybe the forum wasn't as much of a disaster for Trump as I thought.
http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/?ex_cid=rrpromo0 -
It looks Colin Powell responded to an email from Hillary on how to get around security rules telling her to be very careful/but he sort of did it himself too using a Heath-Robinson IT set up way back in PDAland.
That will take a bit of the sting out of the charges - but it seems a bit late to be saying I'm As Bad As Someone Else From Years Ago.0 -
"In a nation in which the Kremlin controls the airwaves, opinions can also be easily swayed, because few contrary opinions can be found in the mainstream."RobD said:
Any evidence to suggest the poll is rigged?nunu said:
Its not a democracy.RobD said:
Looks like he does:nunu said:
Did you hear when he said Putin has 82% support in his country....Speedy said:And that's it.
Trump tried to make a nice closing argument filled with Make America Great/Strong Again.
Although his performance was much much more entertaining than Hillary's, it was also worse.
The segment where they ended up debating how popular Putin is was suicidal.
And he completely failed to persuade me that he is even trying to know about military or foreign policy, but he did persuade me that he is trying on military healthcare.
He was also very comfortable with the crowd and taking questions from them, the reverse of Hillary.
And gave an interesting answer about legalizing immigrants who sign up for the military, and coasted through the Khan and McCain controversies.
I give him 3/10.
It was like the audience was hoping that he would do ok, but his performance still lacks by a mile (his Putin stuff was the killer for me, without it he would have done ok).
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/how-to-understand-putins-jaw-droppingly-high-approval-ratings/2016/03/05/17f5d8f2-d5ba-11e5-a65b-587e721fb231_story.html0 -
There always seems so much pork barrelling going on - and in some areas, outright skullduggery/collusion. We get all bent out of shape over much less.RobD said:
Dunno what it is, but American politics just seems so.. crap.Charles said:The really frustrating thing about the US elections is that they have some really serious and quality politicians.
For instance I watched a Hard Talk interview between Sarah Montague and Lindsey Graham. He's really very very impressive.0 -
Pathetic when compared with Mugabe, surely?RobD said:
Looks like he does:nunu said:
Did you hear when he said Putin has 82% support in his country....Speedy said:And that's it.
Trump tried to make a nice closing argument filled with Make America Great/Strong Again.
Although his performance was much much more entertaining than Hillary's, it was also worse.
The segment where they ended up debating how popular Putin is was suicidal.
And he completely failed to persuade me that he is even trying to know about military or foreign policy, but he did persuade me that he is trying on military healthcare.
He was also very comfortable with the crowd and taking questions from them, the reverse of Hillary.
And gave an interesting answer about legalizing immigrants who sign up for the military, and coasted through the Khan and McCain controversies.
I give him 3/10.
It was like the audience was hoping that he would do ok, but his performance still lacks by a mile (his Putin stuff was the killer for me, without it he would have done ok).
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/how-to-understand-putins-jaw-droppingly-high-approval-ratings/2016/03/05/17f5d8f2-d5ba-11e5-a65b-587e721fb231_story.html0 -
Alas things are not going too well for Comrade Bob these days - note that this is actually published in zimbabwe (#hardictatorfail)OldKingCole said:
Pathetic when compared with Mugabe, surely?RobD said:
Looks like he does:nunu said:
Did you hear when he said Putin has 82% support in his country....Speedy said:And that's it.
Trump tried to make a nice closing argument filled with Make America Great/Strong Again.
Although his performance was much much more entertaining than Hillary's, it was also worse.
The segment where they ended up debating how popular Putin is was suicidal.
And he completely failed to persuade me that he is even trying to know about military or foreign policy, but he did persuade me that he is trying on military healthcare.
He was also very comfortable with the crowd and taking questions from them, the reverse of Hillary.
And gave an interesting answer about legalizing immigrants who sign up for the military, and coasted through the Khan and McCain controversies.
I give him 3/10.
It was like the audience was hoping that he would do ok, but his performance still lacks by a mile (his Putin stuff was the killer for me, without it he would have done ok).
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/how-to-understand-putins-jaw-droppingly-high-approval-ratings/2016/03/05/17f5d8f2-d5ba-11e5-a65b-587e721fb231_story.html
https://www.dailynews.co.zw/articles/2016/09/07/mugabe-s-zanu-pf-plots-survival
In fact Zanu-PF are starting to make Corbyns Labour look united.0 -
Trump may well be right in his objectives regarding Putin, although quite possibly for the wrong reasons.
The largest geopolitical threat to US is probably the closer links between Russia and China who share a hatred of American domination in influence, trade, military and finance. They now act together in a way premeditated to overturn the American position.
If Trump managed to fracture that Russia China axis by altering the US Russia relationship he would probably serve his nations interests well.0 -
This (Colin Powell's involvement) is old news. If you think it is new news, you may be relying on biased sources.PlatoSaid said:It looks Colin Powell responded to an email from Hillary on how to get around security rules telling her to be very careful/but he sort of did it himself too using a Heath-Robinson IT set up way back in PDAland.
That will take a bit of the sting out of the charges - but it seems a bit late to be saying I'm As Bad As Someone Else From Years Ago.
So far as I can see from our side of the Atlantic, the whole email security charge resonates only with military voters who are routinely drilled in handling classified information (which most of them will never see) and who lean heavily to the GOP anyway.
That is why, if I were the running Trump's campaign, I'd ease off on preaching to the choir and instead focus on the charge more likely to peel off Democrat supporters: that Hillary was trying to evade FoI requests (similar to Michael Gove over here, of course).
Or for the small government Republicans also having doubts about Trump, that Hillary and Colin Powell had to do something because the official email service was unusable and often non-existent -- a failure of government, and Trump would get the best people on it (one of his standard tropes).0 -
Tissue_Price said:
The Sun have reported the move out of Parliament in some style:
Sir Winston Churchill died 51 years ago but an parliament insider said his poo may still be in the sewage system because the pipes are so old.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/1744926/politicians-have-to-leave-the-houses-of-parliament-for-five-years-while-10billion-refurb-takes-place/
£10bn?! I guess this is what happens when you stop the cheap Polish builders from coming here.Tissue_Price said:The Sun have reported the move out of Parliament in some style:
Sir Winston Churchill died 51 years ago but an parliament insider said his poo may still be in the sewage system because the pipes are so old.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/1744926/politicians-have-to-leave-the-houses-of-parliament-for-five-years-while-10billion-refurb-takes-place/0 -
Am always very dubious about numbers like that (I'd thought it was 1.5bn) they've probably included rent for QEII at the premium daily rate, etc, to get to it.not_on_fire said:Tissue_Price said:The Sun have reported the move out of Parliament in some style:
Sir Winston Churchill died 51 years ago but an parliament insider said his poo may still be in the sewage system because the pipes are so old.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/1744926/politicians-have-to-leave-the-houses-of-parliament-for-five-years-while-10billion-refurb-takes-place/
£10bn?! I guess this is what happens when you stop the cheap Polish builders from coming here.Tissue_Price said:The Sun have reported the move out of Parliament in some style:
Sir Winston Churchill died 51 years ago but an parliament insider said his poo may still be in the sewage system because the pipes are so old.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/1744926/politicians-have-to-leave-the-houses-of-parliament-for-five-years-while-10billion-refurb-takes-place/
It will be expensive because it's a World Heritage site but it's worth doing right0 -
I think Trump will have to put Matt Taibbi as a maybe: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/features/the-unconquerable-trump-w438545
Quite funny though.0 -
The House Democrats released the email exchange yesterday... Now if you'd like to call that old or NBC particularly biased again.DecrepitJohnL said:
This (Colin Powell's involvement) is old news. If you think it is new news, you may be relying on biased sources.PlatoSaid said:It looks Colin Powell responded to an email from Hillary on how to get around security rules telling her to be very careful/but he sort of did it himself too using a Heath-Robinson IT set up way back in PDAland.
That will take a bit of the sting out of the charges - but it seems a bit late to be saying I'm As Bad As Someone Else From Years Ago.
So far as I can see from our side of the Atlantic, the whole email security charge resonates only with military voters who are routinely drilled in handling classified information (which most of them will never see) and who lean heavily to the GOP anyway.
That is why, if I were the running Trump's campaign, I'd ease off on preaching to the choir and instead focus on the charge more likely to peel off Democrat supporters: that Hillary was trying to evade FoI requests (similar to Michael Gove over here, of course).
Or for the small government Republicans also having doubts about Trump, that Hillary and Colin Powell had to do something because the official email service was unusable and often non-existent -- a failure of government, and Trump would get the best people on it (one of his standard tropes).
http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/house-democrats-release-email-between-colin-powell-hillary-clinton-n644616
0 -
There is much similarity in the US election and the Labour Party leadership election.
America is fecked whoever wins and so Labour is with their leadership election0 -
The fact of the email existing and it's contents has been discussed for ages now, the only new thing is it being published.PlatoSaid said:
The House Democrats released the email exchange yesterday... Now if you'd like to call that old or NBC particularly biased again.DecrepitJohnL said:
This (Colin Powell's involvement) is old news. If you think it is new news, you may be relying on biased sources.PlatoSaid said:It looks Colin Powell responded to an email from Hillary on how to get around security rules telling her to be very careful/but he sort of did it himself too using a Heath-Robinson IT set up way back in PDAland.
That will take a bit of the sting out of the charges - but it seems a bit late to be saying I'm As Bad As Someone Else From Years Ago.
So far as I can see from our side of the Atlantic, the whole email security charge resonates only with military voters who are routinely drilled in handling classified information (which most of them will never see) and who lean heavily to the GOP anyway.
That is why, if I were the running Trump's campaign, I'd ease off on preaching to the choir and instead focus on the charge more likely to peel off Democrat supporters: that Hillary was trying to evade FoI requests (similar to Michael Gove over here, of course).
Or for the small government Republicans also having doubts about Trump, that Hillary and Colin Powell had to do something because the official email service was unusable and often non-existent -- a failure of government, and Trump would get the best people on it (one of his standard tropes).
http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/house-democrats-release-email-between-colin-powell-hillary-clinton-n6446160 -
Lindsey Graham sounds like just the sort of Republican I could happily get behind.Charles said:The really frustrating thing about the US elections is that they have some really serious and quality politicians.
For instance I watched a Hard Talk interview between Sarah Montague and Lindsey Graham. He's really very very impressive.
But the Republican establishment really needs to listen to voters on immigration if they want to avoid a Trump like situation again.0 -
Surely Parliament could pass a law declaring they will be occupying the QEII centre rent-free?Charles said:
Am always very dubious about numbers like that (I'd thought it was 1.5bn) they've probably included rent for QEII at the premium daily rate, etc, to get to it.not_on_fire said:Tissue_Price said:The Sun have reported the move out of Parliament in some style:
Sir Winston Churchill died 51 years ago but an parliament insider said his poo may still be in the sewage system because the pipes are so old.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/1744926/politicians-have-to-leave-the-houses-of-parliament-for-five-years-while-10billion-refurb-takes-place/
£10bn?! I guess this is what happens when you stop the cheap Polish builders from coming here.Tissue_Price said:The Sun have reported the move out of Parliament in some style:
Sir Winston Churchill died 51 years ago but an parliament insider said his poo may still be in the sewage system because the pipes are so old.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/1744926/politicians-have-to-leave-the-houses-of-parliament-for-five-years-while-10billion-refurb-takes-place/
It will be expensive because it's a World Heritage site but it's worth doing right
0 -
Good morning, everyone.0
