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SystemSystem Posts: 12,598
edited September 2016 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » At the 2010 shadow cabinet elections no MPs with surnames beyond M got elected – an alphabetical discrimination classic

One of the extraordinary features of Labour’s last shadow cabinet election in October 2010 is that all the nineteen winners from 49 candidates had surnames starting with letters in the first half of the alphabet.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,021
    What a great spot.

    Oh and first.

    *Innocent Face*
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    Not much point Keith Vaz standing, then.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,998
    When were these elections scrapped? How were the positions allocated?
  • Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664
    edited September 2016
    So what was the split in the 49 between A-M and N-Z?

    And first after a clear DSQ.
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    And Labour's never had an MP called Tim.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,073
    tlg86 said:

    When were these elections scrapped? How were the positions allocated?

    Didn't Ed M get rid of them? Maybe he was worried his brother was in the top side of the draw under this theory.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,378
    On Choudary, the prison service should put him in with white supremacists. Problem solved.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,021
    tlg86 said:

    When were these elections scrapped? How were the positions allocated?

    2011 was when they were scrapped.

    IIRC 20 or so were voted in, and the leader allocated them to the shadow portfolio they saw fit.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,751
    edited September 2016
    This seems like a big enough effect to make it worthwhile for ambitious MPs to change their names to Aaron Aardvark or whatever.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    Actually, it looks as though Mike's observation is (how shall I put this kindly?) not entirely justified by rigorous statistical analysis. Only 6 out of the 49 candidates had surnames beginning with a letter in the second half of the alphabet:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labour_Party_(UK)_Shadow_Cabinet_election,_2010

    (you can sort the table by name to see what I mean)
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,998
    The Ukip leadership election ballot had the names in a random order.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,073
    edmundintokyo said:

    This seems like a big enough effect to make it worthwhile for ambitious MPs to change their names to Aaron Aardvark or whatever.

    Not at the moment. Nobody wants to be in the Shad Cabinet. They are all claiming their real name is Zappa.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,874
    tlg86 said:

    The Ukip leadership election ballot had the names in a random order.

    Who did you go for ?
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584

    Time to randomize the list?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,378
    Charles said:

    MaxPB said:

    Charles said:

    HurstLlama said:

    Sandpit said:


    The cost of support staff is cheap compared to the cost of expensive capital (MRI scanners, dialysis machines etc) sitting idle for 75% of the week. No reason they can't be used 16 hours a day, 7 days a week.

    Imagine if an airline decided to only hire one crew of pilots and hosties for every plane they bought. The actual numbers are 6-8 crews per plane in the real world, they have the plane running 18-22 hours a day as it's not making any money sitting on the ground. Scheduled light maintainence is all done overnight.

    Obviously I can't speak for everywhere but in this part of the world they are actually rather good at keeping that sort of kit running as much as possible. A chum of mine used to have his thrice weekly dialysis appointments at 06:15 so it would take as little out of his working day as possible. His unit also offered evening appointments. For myself I have been in a scanner at the local hospital before nine o'clock in the morning.

    So there are certainly at least some pockets of the NHS which are pretty good at making the maximum use of expensive kit.

    P.S. That said judging by the uniform the operator wore I am not sure if the MRI scanning has not been contracted out. The scanner was in the hospital but I got the feeling it was owned and operated by a private company. Unfortunately I wasn't in a position to make enquiries. It was jolly efficient either way.

    In your area MRI is handled by Alliance Medical which is a really well run operation.
    Charles, do you think the large trauma centre idea is feasible?
    Not sure what the specific idea you have in mind is, but essentially DGHs are a inefficient monstrosity that are the bane of the NHS

    - A&E: push into the retail segment. Have them in town centres with ambulances out back. Use them them minor fixes and triage effectively on the phone: either patch up or use an ambulance to an acute setting

    - Multi-GP out patient facilities with co-location of pharmacy and other primary care functions. Again get them close to the end user

    - Acute hospitals should be just then: patch them up, get them out of surgery or IC asap. Don't use them for convalesence

    - Specialist hospitals: focus the skills that you need to get centres of excellence

    - Chronic facilities: for extended recovery where in-patient coverage is needed. Not really that many of them. Co-locate with old age homes

    - Home care: this is the golden prize. Get as many patients as possible out of hospitals and into the home setting covered by mobile nurses and telemedicine consults as needed
    Thanks, Charles. If Lansley had proposed something like this I would have been in favour.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    FPT:

    Clinton's average national lead down to 3.3 points. A bit close for comfort from her point of view:

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_clinton-5491.html
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    tlg86 said:

    When were these elections scrapped? How were the positions allocated?

    2011 was when they were scrapped.

    IIRC 20 or so were voted in, and the leader allocated them to the shadow portfolio they saw fit.
    I think the issue is that the first Cabinet consists of people who are in the shadow cabinet. So you can get people who are completely incapable of performing an executive function in important positions.

    * Innocent face *
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,998
    edited September 2016
    Pulpstar said:

    tlg86 said:

    The Ukip leadership election ballot had the names in a random order.

    Who did you go for ?
    Phillip Broughton.

    Edit: I suspect I'll have the same effect on Ukip leadership candidates as OGH has on Lib Dem leadership candidates.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,874
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Actually, it looks as though Mike's observation is (how shall I put this kindly?) not entirely justified by rigorous statistical analysis. Only 6 out of the 49 candidates had surnames beginning with a letter in the second half of the alphabet:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labour_Party_(UK)_Shadow_Cabinet_election,_2010

    (you can sort the table by name to see what I mean)

    Emily Thornberry/Liam Byrne possibly switching if table order is reversed.
  • GarethoftheVale2GarethoftheVale2 Posts: 2,351
    FPT - The draft new boundaries for NI are out:

    https://www.boundarycommission.org.uk/sites/boundarycommission.org.uk/files/media-files/BCNI 2018 Provisional Proposals Report.pdf

    They've gone for a 3 seat Belfast with quite a lot of knock on change elsewhere around Lough Neagh. The consensus seems to be the result is better for the nationalists

    http://www.irishnews.com/news/politicalnews/2016/09/06/news/opinion-stand-by-for-unionist-hullabaloo-682616/
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    MaxPB said:


    Thanks, Charles. If Lansley had proposed something like this I would have been in favour.

    Mr. Max, there are two small but potentially fatal flaws for Mr. Charles model of the NHS. It ignores the suppliers' interests and it ignores the fact that patients are humans with needs and relatives that care about them. I think it a great model from an economic and managerial perspective, it just ignores the human perspective.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,300
    I have three major scientific papers where I'm recognised as joint first author, but because my surname starts with a P, I'm always listed second in the authors' list, and each paper is known "'the other person' et al." :confounded:
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    MaxPB said:

    On Choudary, the prison service should put him in with white supremacists. Problem solved.

    Stick him with Charles Bronson.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    GarethoftheVale2 said:

    FPT - The draft new boundaries for NI are out:

    https://www.boundarycommission.org.uk/sites/boundarycommission.org.uk/files/media-files/BCNI 2018 Provisional Proposals Report.pdf

    They've gone for a 3 seat Belfast with quite a lot of knock on change elsewhere around Lough Neagh. The consensus seems to be the result is better for the nationalists

    http://www.irishnews.com/news/politicalnews/2016/09/06/news/opinion-stand-by-for-unionist-hullabaloo-682616/

    Some of the experts on the VoteUK discussion forum are saying the proposed boundaries are going to be very popular with Sinn Fein supporters.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,300
    GarethoftheVale2 said:

    FPT - The draft new boundaries for NI are out:

    https://www.boundarycommission.org.uk/sites/boundarycommission.org.uk/files/media-files/BCNI 2018 Provisional Proposals Report.pdf

    They've gone for a 3 seat Belfast with quite a lot of knock on change elsewhere around Lough Neagh. The consensus seems to be the result is better for the nationalists

    http://www.irishnews.com/news/politicalnews/2016/09/06/news/opinion-stand-by-for-unionist-hullabaloo-682616/

    East Derry goes and with it Gregory Campbell, perhaps the most attractive of all the Boundary Commission’s proposals

    :lol:
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    MaxPB said:

    On Choudary, the prison service should put him in with white supremacists. Problem solved.

    I doubt we have white racist supremacist gangs in our prisons.

    No, the fact the Choudray will be out in less than three years and free to carry on his work of hate just turns the whole thing into farce. Why did they even bother putting the case together?
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    tlg86 said:

    The Ukip leadership election ballot had the names in a random order.

    Who did you go for ?
    Phillip Broughton.

    Edit: I suspect I'll have the same effect on Ukip leadership candidates as OGH has on Lib Dem leadership candidates.
    What made him stand out for you? Is voting electronic as well as postal?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,874
    GarethoftheVale2 said:

    FPT - The draft new boundaries for NI are out:

    https://www.boundarycommission.org.uk/sites/boundarycommission.org.uk/files/media-files/BCNI 2018 Provisional Proposals Report.pdf

    They've gone for a 3 seat Belfast with quite a lot of knock on change elsewhere around Lough Neagh. The consensus seems to be the result is better for the nationalists

    http://www.irishnews.com/news/politicalnews/2016/09/06/news/opinion-stand-by-for-unionist-hullabaloo-682616/

    The DUP get too many, and Sinn Fein too few seats for their respective voting numbers, in 2010 Sinn Fein actually got more votes but only won 5 seats as opposed to DUP 9 !

    I expect the DUP will vote against the boundary changes now with Sinn Fein of course abstaining.

    How do these changes affect UUP/SDLP ?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,300
    edited September 2016
    edmundintokyo said:

    This seems like a big enough effect to make it worthwhile for ambitious MPs to change their names to Aaron Aardvark or whatever.

    Aaron Aaronson

    http://baict.wikia.com/wiki/Aaron_Aaronson

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pT6hEQ-ktNQ
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,000
    Wow. Every time you think the PLP has hit rock bottom and cannot fail to impress any more they find a way. It is the most impressive thing about them.
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    I have three major scientific papers where I'm recognised as joint first author, but because my surname starts with a P, I'm always listed second in the authors' list, and each paper is known "'the other person' et al." :confounded:

    Time to change you name to Dr Sunil Aardvark.
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,705
    HurstLlama said:

    MaxPB said:


    Thanks, Charles. If Lansley had proposed something like this I would have been in favour.

    Mr. Max, there are two small but potentially fatal flaws for Mr. Charles model of the NHS. It ignores the suppliers' interests and it ignores the fact that patients are humans with needs and relatives that care about them. I think it a great model from an economic and managerial perspective, it just ignores the human perspective.
    No it doesn't, it is suggested to provide the best quality outcome both quickly and cost effectively.

    The quality of the outcome is higher up the scale of needs than the family issues.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,378
    HurstLlama said:

    MaxPB said:

    On Choudary, the prison service should put him in with white supremacists. Problem solved.

    I doubt we have white racist supremacist gangs in our prisons.

    No, the fact the Choudray will be out in less than three years and free to carry on his work of hate just turns the whole thing into farce. Why did they even bother putting the case together?
    Hopefully the US have a case against him in the works and we extradite the bugger. At least over there they know how to deal with scum like Choudary.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,000
    MaxPB said:

    On Choudary, the prison service should put him in with white supremacists. Problem solved.

    So he or his estate can sue us I presume?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,998
    PlatoSaid said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    tlg86 said:

    The Ukip leadership election ballot had the names in a random order.

    Who did you go for ?
    Phillip Broughton.

    Edit: I suspect I'll have the same effect on Ukip leadership candidates as OGH has on Lib Dem leadership candidates.
    What made him stand out for you? Is voting electronic as well as postal?
    Just postal - at least I think that was the case. He seemed to offer direction post-Brexit rather than yelling about Brexit must mean Brexit. Diane James's leaflet was completely vacuous and she's been dodging hustings.
  • vikvik Posts: 551
    edited September 2016
    Trump erases 9 point Clinton lead. Now leads Hillary by 1 in CNN/ORC poll.

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_clinton-5491.html

    (Admittedly, the poll did change its methodology from Registered Voters to Likely Voters. But, quite a few of the pundits were claiming that the change from RV to LV would hurt Trump instead of helping him.)
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    edited September 2016
    HurstLlama said:

    MaxPB said:


    Thanks, Charles. If Lansley had proposed something like this I would have been in favour.

    Mr. Max, there are two small but potentially fatal flaws for Mr. Charles model of the NHS. It ignores the suppliers' interests and it ignores the fact that patients are humans with needs and relatives that care about them. I think it a great model from an economic and managerial perspective, it just ignores the human perspective.
    For me the key "human" aspect is:

    (a) Acute needs to be dealt with quickly and effectively. I think people are more focused on results than anything else

    (b) Convalesence should be close to the patient's home rather than in DGHs which are inefficient as well as inconvenient. I think this is better for the relatives as well due to travel, etc.

    (c) Patients much prefer home care to hospital

    Ignoring the supplier's interests? Not sure I know what you are referring to?
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,705
    MaxPB said:

    Charles said:

    MaxPB said:

    Charles said:

    HurstLlama said:

    Sandpit said:


    The cost of support staff is cheap compared to the cost of expensive capital (MRI scanners, dialysis machines etc) sitting idle for 75% of the week. No reason they can't be used 16 hours a day, 7 days a week.

    Snip.

    Obviously I can't speak for everywhere but in this part of the world they are actually rather good at keeping that sort of kit running as much as possible. A chum of mine used to have his thrice weekly dialysis appointments at 06:15 so it would take as little out of his working day as possible. His unit also offered evening appointments. For myself I have been in a scanner at the local hospital before nine o'clock in the morning.

    So there are certainly at least some pockets of the NHS which are pretty good at making the maximum use of expensive kit.

    P.S. That said judging by the uniform the operator wore I am not sure if the MRI scanning has not been contracted out. The scanner was in the hospital but I got the feeling it was owned and operated by a private company. Unfortunately I wasn't in a position to make enquiries. It was jolly efficient either way.

    In your area MRI is handled by Alliance Medical which is a really well run operation.
    Charles, do you think the large trauma centre idea is feasible?
    Not sure what the specific idea you have in mind is, but essentially DGHs are a inefficient monstrosity that are the bane of the NHS

    - A&E: push into the retail segment. Have them in town centres with ambulances out back. Use them them minor fixes and triage effectively on the phone: either patch up or use an ambulance to an acute setting

    - Multi-GP out patient facilities with co-location of pharmacy and other primary care functions. Again get them close to the end user

    - Acute hospitals should be just then: patch them up, get them out of surgery or IC asap. Don't use them for convalesence

    - Specialist hospitals: focus the skills that you need to get centres of excellence

    - Chronic facilities: for extended recovery where in-patient coverage is needed. Not really that many of them. Co-locate with old age homes

    - Home care: this is the golden prize. Get as many patients as possible out of hospitals and into the home setting covered by mobile nurses and telemedicine consults as needed
    Thanks, Charles. If Lansley had proposed something like this I would have been in favour.
    Why not include Dentistry in a GP surgery providing NHS treatment to the patient list? Why is it a requirement for a Dentist to be in a separate building with a separate business?
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Patrick Kidd
    Corbyn: "Politicians are like bands. It's about working together. Until you fall out." UB40 look awkward
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Ursula Loveridge
    Amazing shrieking harridan woman on #wato yells question at @owensmith2016, who soothes situation bycalling her wrong name several times :)
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584
    HurstLlama said:

    MaxPB said:

    On Choudary, the prison service should put him in with white supremacists. Problem solved.

    I doubt we have white racist supremacist gangs in our prisons.

    No, the fact the Choudray will be out in less than three years and free to carry on his work of hate just turns the whole thing into farce. Why did they even bother putting the case together?

    If released there will be conditions, and he will be yanked back in again if he breaches them.

  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    philiph said:



    Why not include Dentistry in a GP surgery providing NHS treatment to the patient list? Why is it a requirement for a Dentist to be in a separate building with a separate business?

    Operations and set up needs are quite different (e.g. frequency of patient attendance and scheduling time as well as inventory management and suppliers). But I would certainly look at co-location with sharing of overhead.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,776
    Good afternoon, everyone.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,300
    Pulpstar said:

    GarethoftheVale2 said:

    FPT - The draft new boundaries for NI are out:

    https://www.boundarycommission.org.uk/sites/boundarycommission.org.uk/files/media-files/BCNI 2018 Provisional Proposals Report.pdf

    They've gone for a 3 seat Belfast with quite a lot of knock on change elsewhere around Lough Neagh. The consensus seems to be the result is better for the nationalists

    http://www.irishnews.com/news/politicalnews/2016/09/06/news/opinion-stand-by-for-unionist-hullabaloo-682616/

    The DUP get too many, and Sinn Fein too few seats for their respective voting numbers, in 2010 Sinn Fein actually got more votes but only won 5 seats as opposed to DUP 9 !

    I expect the DUP will vote against the boundary changes now with Sinn Fein of course abstaining.

    How do these changes affect UUP/SDLP ?
    They only won five seats between them in 2015.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,378
    philiph said:

    Why not include Dentistry in a GP surgery providing NHS treatment to the patient list? Why is it a requirement for a Dentist to be in a separate building with a separate business?

    Seems like a decent idea to me, they could share reception and appointment booking services and share the rental costs.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,776
    F1: BBC reckons with the sale of F1, Ecclestone's time could be about to end:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/37284386

    Mind you, it's unlikely an 85 year old's going to be there for ages anyway.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,874
    Trump appeals to the side of me that just wants to see the whole world burn :)
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,021
    @carldinnen: Keith Vaz tells me he will stay on in his role on Labour's NEC. Says he 'feels fine'.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,300
    Pulpstar said:

    Trump appeals to the side of me that just wants to see the whole world burn :)

    "You have nothing, NOTHING to threaten me with. Nothing to do with all your strength!"
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 10,082
    vik said:

    Trump erases 9 point Clinton lead. Now leads Hillary by 1 in CNN/ORC poll.

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_clinton-5491.html

    (Admittedly, the poll did change its methodology from Registered Voters to Likely Voters. But, quite a few of the pundits were claiming that the change from RV to LV would hurt Trump instead of helping him.)

    http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584
    MaxPB said:

    philiph said:

    Why not include Dentistry in a GP surgery providing NHS treatment to the patient list? Why is it a requirement for a Dentist to be in a separate building with a separate business?

    Seems like a decent idea to me, they could share reception and appointment booking services and share the rental costs.

    I'm not convinced about this. Sitting in a waiting room having to listen to screams dental drills coming through the door is bad enough. Having to do it everytime time you visit the Doctor would be unpleasant.

    Plus you are mixing healthy dental patients with potentially unhealthy bug-ridden doctor's patients.


  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,874
    Morris_Dancer said:

    F1: BBC reckons with the sale of F1, Ecclestone's time could be about to end:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/37284386

    Mind you, it's unlikely an 85 year old's going to be there for ages anyway.

    Always a good game to play when he is photoed with a woman whose legs are longer than he is..

    Wife, mistress or daughter :D
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    @carldinnen: Keith Vaz tells me he will stay on in his role on Labour's NEC. Says he 'feels fine'.

    Feels and is felt?
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    Charles said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    @carldinnen: Keith Vaz tells me he will stay on in his role on Labour's NEC. Says he 'feels fine'.

    Feels and is felt?
    Yuk
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 44,135
    MaxPB said:

    On Choudary, the prison service should put him in with white supremacists. Problem solved.

    He'll go to Belmarsh which will mean quite a meeting of radical minds at this publically-funded Madrassa. Hence the attempt I saw somewhere of keeping him away from other inmates.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,874
    edited September 2016
    MarkHopkins said:

    MaxPB said:

    philiph said:

    Why not include Dentistry in a GP surgery providing NHS treatment to the patient list? Why is it a requirement for a Dentist to be in a separate building with a separate business?

    Seems like a decent idea to me, they could share reception and appointment booking services and share the rental costs.

    I'm not convinced about this. Sitting in a waiting room having to listen to screams dental drills coming through the door is bad enough. Having to do it everytime time you visit the Doctor would be unpleasant.

    Plus you are mixing healthy dental patients with potentially unhealthy bug-ridden doctor's patients.


    My GP is just down the road from where I live, whereas the dentist I use is near to my work.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,021
    Just leaving this here.

    Cambridge tops UK universities in QS World Rankings

    The upstarts at the other place came sixth.

    http://thetab.com/uk/cambridge/2016/09/06/cambridge-tops-uk-universities-qs-world-rankings-80173

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,776
    Mr. Pulpstar, or mother-in-law?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,300
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Just leaving this here.

    Cambridge tops UK universities in QS World Rankings

    The upstarts at the other place came sixth.

    http://thetab.com/uk/cambridge/2016/09/06/cambridge-tops-uk-universities-qs-world-rankings-80173

    My almer mater came 9th :)
  • GarethoftheVale2GarethoftheVale2 Posts: 2,351
    Pulpstar said:

    GarethoftheVale2 said:

    FPT - The draft new boundaries for NI are out:

    https://www.boundarycommission.org.uk/sites/boundarycommission.org.uk/files/media-files/BCNI 2018 Provisional Proposals Report.pdf

    They've gone for a 3 seat Belfast with quite a lot of knock on change elsewhere around Lough Neagh. The consensus seems to be the result is better for the nationalists

    http://www.irishnews.com/news/politicalnews/2016/09/06/news/opinion-stand-by-for-unionist-hullabaloo-682616/

    The DUP get too many, and Sinn Fein too few seats for their respective voting numbers, in 2010 Sinn Fein actually got more votes but only won 5 seats as opposed to DUP 9 !

    I expect the DUP will vote against the boundary changes now with Sinn Fein of course abstaining.

    How do these changes affect UUP/SDLP ?
    The SDLP will lose Belfast S but be fine in S Down and Foyle
    The UUP may lose S Antrim to DUP. Fermanagh will continue to be very close
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,300
    Charles said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    @carldinnen: Keith Vaz tells me he will stay on in his role on Labour's NEC. Says he 'feels fine'.

    Feels and is felt?
    Entry-ism?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,998
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Just leaving this here.

    Cambridge tops UK universities in QS World Rankings

    The upstarts at the other place came sixth.

    http://thetab.com/uk/cambridge/2016/09/06/cambridge-tops-uk-universities-qs-world-rankings-80173

    Just to be clear, Cambridge came fourth and Oxford came sixth.
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Just leaving this here.

    Cambridge tops UK universities in QS World Rankings

    The upstarts at the other place came sixth.

    http://thetab.com/uk/cambridge/2016/09/06/cambridge-tops-uk-universities-qs-world-rankings-80173


    Cambridge came ... 3rd behind Harvard and Oxford in the Employer Reputation Stakes.

    Well, if you want to draw our attention to this.

  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,300
    tlg86 said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Just leaving this here.

    Cambridge tops UK universities in QS World Rankings

    The upstarts at the other place came sixth.

    http://thetab.com/uk/cambridge/2016/09/06/cambridge-tops-uk-universities-qs-world-rankings-80173

    Just to be clear, Cambridge came fourth and Oxford came sixth.
    What the TSE means is that Cambridge came top out of the UK unis in the list.
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Sunny
    UB40 have done a presser with Corbyn? Oo. How daft will they look when Owen Smith does one with Musical Youth. #UB4Corbyn #onTheLeftHandSide
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,874
    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Just leaving this here.

    Cambridge tops UK universities in QS World Rankings

    The upstarts at the other place came sixth.

    http://thetab.com/uk/cambridge/2016/09/06/cambridge-tops-uk-universities-qs-world-rankings-80173

    My almer mater came 9th :)
    154th here.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,998
    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    tlg86 said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Just leaving this here.

    Cambridge tops UK universities in QS World Rankings

    The upstarts at the other place came sixth.

    http://thetab.com/uk/cambridge/2016/09/06/cambridge-tops-uk-universities-qs-world-rankings-80173

    Just to be clear, Cambridge came fourth and Oxford came sixth.
    What the TSE means is that Cambridge came top out of the UK unis in the list.
    It's a misleading headline that leaves the impression that Cambridge is top of the list; it isn't.
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    edited September 2016
    "Drivetribe is being billed as the "world's digital hub for motoring" and comes from Jeremy Clarkson, James May and Richard Hammond ahead of the launch of 'The Grand Tour' on Amazon.

    With the engine of their Amazon show The Grand Tour revving up for a fall launch, former Top Gear hosts Jeremy Clarkson, James May and Richard Hammond have found a major backer for their upcoming digital media platform. 21st Century Fox has come aboard Drivetribe, set to launch in November, investing $6.5 million in what is being billed as the "world's digital hub for motoring."

    Drivetribe was co-founded by Clarkson, Hammond and May together with exec producer and former Top Gear producer Andy Wilman and technology entrepreneur Ernesto Schmitt.

    http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/fox-backs-top-gear-hosts-925876
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @AlastairDalton: Nicola Sturgeon confirms plans to cut air passenger duty. Wd need Tory support. Background: https://t.co/DY9902Ep9V https://t.co/x7Gl0vbJ7f

    Oh dear

    Is this a good policy because Nicola wants it, or a bad policy if Tories vote for it?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,300
    tlg86 said:

    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    tlg86 said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Just leaving this here.

    Cambridge tops UK universities in QS World Rankings

    The upstarts at the other place came sixth.

    http://thetab.com/uk/cambridge/2016/09/06/cambridge-tops-uk-universities-qs-world-rankings-80173

    Just to be clear, Cambridge came fourth and Oxford came sixth.
    What the TSE means is that Cambridge came top out of the UK unis in the list.
    It's a misleading headline that leaves the impression that Cambridge is top of the list; it isn't.
    Cambridge tops UK universities in QS World Rankings

    I immediately translated it as meaning Cambridge headed the UK unis in the list of WORLD rankings.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,874
    http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/jeremy-corbyn-labour-leadership-owen-smith-sexist-comment-nicola-sturgeon-gobstopper-banter-a7228021.html
  • ThrakThrak Posts: 494
    edited September 2016
    AndyJS said:

    FPT:

    Clinton's average national lead down to 3.3 points. A bit close for comfort from her point of view:

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_clinton-5491.html

    Pollster more up to date with the other three national polls with a 3, 4 & 6% lead for Clinton. There's a massive fifty state Washington Post set of polls that is sure to provoke discussion with Clinton ahead in Arizona and Texas (! with a sample of over 5000), Trump ahead in Iowa and Ohio and North Carolina and Georgia tied.

    Caveat Emptor on those. They also polls with Johnson in possible spitting distance in places like Alaska, Utah and New Mexico but I don't know how thar will last and it's well worth an article or two given the possibilities. Maybe he ends up with half what is suggested but that is still a bigger spoiler than the libertarians have been before.
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    "Why do people always fall from grace for the wrong reasons?

    I had always hoped that if Keith Vaz finally fell from whatever form of grace he could lay claim to, it would be for really good reasons. Regular readers will know that my detestation of him dates back to 1989 when as a young MP he first offered to support to Salman Rushdie in the business of the Ayatollah’s fatwa and then a few weeks later led a demonstration of thousands of angry British Muslims in opposition to Rushdie and his novel.

    Someone who is capable of that is capable of absolutely anything."

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/09/keith-vazs-rent-boys-done-valuable-political-job/
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,197
    Mods, this is exact quote from Mail...I make no further comment.

    "So where DOES Keith's money come from? Shamed Labour grandee Vaz has been using MP salary to pay staff but could still fund private school fees and £4million property empire"

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3775763/EXC-DOES-Keith-s-money-come-Labour-grandee-Vaz-complained-using-MP-salary-pay-staff.html?ito=social-twitter_dailymailUK
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    The most brilliant meow, saucers of double cream for Douglas Murray :)

    "For although one does not want to rub salt into wounds, if you have the appearance of Penfold, the condescension of a cat and the physique of a care bear, even being a Chairman of the Home Affairs select committee won’t help you get much in the way of gay totty."
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,776
    Miss Plato, not having his contract renewed could prove immensely lucrative for Clarkson.

    Saw a Top Gear repeat was on Dave. It turned out to be a new one, but fortunately I checked the info before subjecting my ears to the shrieking Evans.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    Charles said:



    What happens when the the Acute care is not a quick solution? My brother has been in ITU for weeks. If the Trauma centres, supposed centres of excellence, are few and far between what happens to the nearest and dearest (we are not all rich, don't all have cars, and public transport stops at 18:00). I went through this with my mother in law and more recently with my sister in law. You need to deal with death as well as recovery.

    Then there is the question of where all these extra paramedics going to come from. Leave aside the problem of paramedics driving long distances in the first place (see post up thread), shifting seriously ill patients from a few acute trauma centres back to local provision is not a job from someone with just D1 on their driver's licence.

    That takes me onto where are these convalescence/specialist hospitals going to be? You say the DGH system is dreadful. Ok so close them. Now, what? Where are all those people who the acute units chuck out going to go? The DGH has one great advantage and the clue is in its name "District" - they are going to be reasonably close (for some definition of close) to where the patient lives. I can't see how that makes them inconvenient.

    Perhaps you are suggesting we should build a whole raft of new hospitals, perhaps so that every reasonably large town has one. We could call them cottage hospitals, just like we had forty years ago before we were told they were terribly inefficient and all had to be closed down.

    Patients prefer Home Care to Hospital Care. Well in my experience that is true as hospital care in the NHS once you are out of the acute phase actually means neglect. However, if you are going to have home care then it needs to be home care not some health visitor who doesn't actually speak English popping in for ten minutes before dashing off to his/her next appointment. For a lot of patients, especially the elderly living on their own, home care means loneliness, neglect and fear.

    As to the supplier's interest, you surely don't think that such a radical change in the NHS as you are proposing would be calmly accepted by the people who are currently working in the Service.

    No, Mr. Charles I think your proposal, brilliant though it is, is marred by one tiny but fatal flaw, the NHS has to deal with people.

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,021
    MarkHopkins said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Just leaving this here.

    Cambridge tops UK universities in QS World Rankings

    The upstarts at the other place came sixth.

    http://thetab.com/uk/cambridge/2016/09/06/cambridge-tops-uk-universities-qs-world-rankings-80173


    Cambridge came ... 3rd behind Harvard and Oxford in the Employer Reputation Stakes.

    Well, if you want to draw our attention to this.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKuHYO9TM5A
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    "New Green leader says UKIP are fascists":

    http://order-order.com/2016/09/06/new-green-leader-says-ukip-fascists/
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,300
    PlatoSaid said:

    The most brilliant meow, saucers of double cream for Douglas Murray :)

    "For although one does not want to rub salt into wounds, if you have the appearance of Penfold, the condescension of a cat and the physique of a care bear, even being a Chairman of the Home Affairs select committee won’t help you get much in the way of gay totty."

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2WTARyipwU
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,197
    tlg86 said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Just leaving this here.

    Cambridge tops UK universities in QS World Rankings

    The upstarts at the other place came sixth.

    http://thetab.com/uk/cambridge/2016/09/06/cambridge-tops-uk-universities-qs-world-rankings-80173

    Just to be clear, Cambridge came fourth and Oxford came sixth.
    Report Card....must try harder...
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,874
    edited September 2016
    PlatoSaid said:

    The most brilliant meow, saucers of double cream for Douglas Murray :)

    "For although one does not want to rub salt into wounds, if you have the appearance of Penfold, the condescension of a cat and the physique of a care bear, even being a Chairman of the Home Affairs select committee won’t help you get much in the way of gay totty."

    " But the point I would like to make is that other than getting rent boys it is hard to imagine many other routes to happiness for Vaz in the whole gay area."

    Serious shade.

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/09/keith-vazs-rent-boys-done-valuable-political-job/
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,021
    It is very easy to spot the easy to wind up Oxonians on this thread.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,300
    AndyJS said:

    "New Green leader says UKIP are fascists":

    http://order-order.com/2016/09/06/new-green-leader-says-ukip-fascists/

    Green Party are eco-fascists?
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Not many have commented on Mike's thread header. It is very sharp and very smart. Back the Bs, shun the Ss.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,197
    edited September 2016
    Pulpstar said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    The most brilliant meow, saucers of double cream for Douglas Murray :)

    "For although one does not want to rub salt into wounds, if you have the appearance of Penfold, the condescension of a cat and the physique of a care bear, even being a Chairman of the Home Affairs select committee won’t help you get much in the way of gay totty."

    " But the point I would like to make is that other than getting rent boys it is hard to imagine many other routes to happiness for Vaz in the whole gay area."

    Serious shade.

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/09/keith-vazs-rent-boys-done-valuable-political-job/
    I forgot about this incident...

    Such as hauling the Metropolitan Police in front of your Parliamentary committee and forcing them to make a grovelling apology for not knowing that a Muslim schoolgirl in London was planning to head to Syria to become a jihadi rape-volunteer. Mr Vaz got his grandstanding moment. The police got their humiliation. And only later – whoops – did anybody bother to find out that the father of the girl in question (who had also appeared before Mr Vaz’s committee
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,300
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    tlg86 said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Just leaving this here.

    Cambridge tops UK universities in QS World Rankings

    The upstarts at the other place came sixth.

    http://thetab.com/uk/cambridge/2016/09/06/cambridge-tops-uk-universities-qs-world-rankings-80173

    Just to be clear, Cambridge came fourth and Oxford came sixth.
    Report Card....must try harder...
    "Oxford's a dump!" - General Melchett.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Pulpstar said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    The most brilliant meow, saucers of double cream for Douglas Murray :)

    "For although one does not want to rub salt into wounds, if you have the appearance of Penfold, the condescension of a cat and the physique of a care bear, even being a Chairman of the Home Affairs select committee won’t help you get much in the way of gay totty."

    " But the point I would like to make is that other than getting rent boys it is hard to imagine many other routes to happiness for Vaz in the whole gay area."

    Serious shade.

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/09/keith-vazs-rent-boys-done-valuable-political-job/
    It's amazing what niche tastes are out there. As is often said, there's someone for everyone.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,998
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    It is very easy to spot the easy to wind up Oxonians on this thread.

    When do you anticipate Cambridge providing another PM?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,021
    tlg86 said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    It is very easy to spot the easy to wind up Oxonians on this thread.

    When do you anticipate Cambridge providing another PM?
    We prefer to go for Nobel Laureates.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,300
    tlg86 said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    It is very easy to spot the easy to wind up Oxonians on this thread.

    When do you anticipate Cambridge providing another PM?
    Major went to neither Oxbridge uni.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Charles said:

    HurstLlama said:

    MaxPB said:


    Thanks, Charles. If Lansley had proposed something like this I would have been in favour.

    Mr. Max, there are two small but potentially fatal flaws for Mr. Charles model of the NHS. It ignores the suppliers' interests and it ignores the fact that patients are humans with needs and relatives that care about them. I think it a great model from an economic and managerial perspective, it just ignores the human perspective.
    For me the key "human" aspect is:

    (a) Acute needs to be dealt with quickly and effectively. I think people are more focused on results than anything else

    (b) Convalesence should be close to the patient's home rather than in DGHs which are inefficient as well as inconvenient. I think this is better for the relatives as well due to travel, etc.

    (c) Patients much prefer home care to hospital

    Ignoring the supplier's interests? Not sure I know what you are referring to?
    There is always a tension between convenience and quality, as well as distributing each of these.

    For example the Isle of Wight has a population of 120 000 plus summer visitors. St Mary's Hospital Newport is the Island hospital with some poor measures of quality, such as a Standardised Mortality Ratio of over 120. This means that patients there are 20% more likely to die (adjusted for complexity) than the national average. Islanders would be better off being treated in Portsmouth or Southampton, but suggest closing St Mary's at your peril!

    This is not just an Island phenomenon, closing the maternity unit at Banbury, the Stafford hospital or the Grantham hospital all drew vocal local complaints. Patients don't like travelling.

    On the issue of capital equipment being idle, the problem is usually that there are no staff to run extended services. For example 8% of 3500 Consultant Radiologist posts in the UK are unfilled and often for years. A scanner needs a person to take and interpret images. Changes to training regimes have worsened the situation significantly and overseas recruitment dried up:

    http://careers.bmj.com/careers/advice/Radiology,_psychiatry,_and_paediatrics_posts_are_put_on_national_shortage_list

    There is a national recruitment and retention crisis across British Medicine, Nursing and Allied Professions. Training more people is expensive financially and in terms of availibility of experienced trainers.

    A sensible approach by the Department of Health and Medical Establishment would be to address the reason why so many leave these professions (particularly compared to other countries) which often are not money related. Instead the government has come up with a crap contract and told the staff to "Take it or quit", and many more will quit.
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Wow - how will be interesting

    Danny Shaw
    Policing Minister @BrandonLewis promises big savings - £1 million per day - from Airwave replacement, Emergency Services Network.
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    edited September 2016
    AlastairMeeks said:

    Not many have commented on Mike's thread header. It is very sharp and very smart. Back the Bs, shun the Ss.

    Well, Richard's critique has some validity.

    The rank correlation coefficient between alphabetical order and finishing position is +0.21, and the correlation coefficient between actual votes and alphabetical order is -0.23.

    So there was an effect in this case, but I think a fair assessment would be that it owes as much to the particular happenstance of these candidates as anything else.

    At the most recent previous Shadow Cabinet election in 1996, the effect was almost exactly opposite: a rank correlation coefficient of -0.26 and an absolute vote coefficient of +0.19, with three of the top four being Taylor, Short & Strang.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,998
    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    tlg86 said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    It is very easy to spot the easy to wind up Oxonians on this thread.

    When do you anticipate Cambridge providing another PM?
    Major went to neither Oxbridge uni.
    He didn't go to university full stop. I'd have thought it unlikely that we'll ever get another PM who didn't go to uni.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,874
    AlastairMeeks said:

    Not many have commented on Mike's thread header. It is very sharp and very smart. Back the Bs, shun the Ss.

    What about the Vs though ?
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Pulpstar said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    Not many have commented on Mike's thread header. It is very sharp and very smart. Back the Bs, shun the Ss.

    What about the Vs though ?
    Eviscerate.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,300
    AlastairMeeks said:

    Pulpstar said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    Not many have commented on Mike's thread header. It is very sharp and very smart. Back the Bs, shun the Ss.

    What about the Vs though ?
    Eviscerate.
    Begins with an E.
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    PlatoSaid said:

    Wow - how will be interesting

    Danny Shaw
    Policing Minister @BrandonLewis promises big savings - £1 million per day - from Airwave replacement, Emergency Services Network.

    Airwave is, and I say this with some force, an enormous sack of shite.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,874
    John_M said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Wow - how will be interesting

    Danny Shaw
    Policing Minister @BrandonLewis promises big savings - £1 million per day - from Airwave replacement, Emergency Services Network.

    Airwave is, and I say this with some force, an enormous sack of shite.
    I have never heard of it.
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