Miss Cyclefree, Eagle's unimpressive, but I agree. She would've been better.
Smith's bloody awful.
Where's Benn? Cooper? Johnson?
Eagle, Benn, Cooper and Johnson all voted for the Iraq War and are linked to New Labour and would have no chance with the present Labour membership and registered supporters. Smith only has a chance because he did not vote for the Iraq War and is campaigning on a Corbynlite platform
Their problem is that their record and their policies are unacceptable, and they are backstabbers.
Smith's problem is that he is terrible as a campaigner and he's a backstabber.
On balance they are unelectable for different reasons, backstabbing is their only common link.
Corbyn of course is a champion backstabber, having backstabbed Kinnock, Blair and Brown
You've said that before
Corbyn dudnt bsckstab: he opposed them. Backstabbing implies an element of betrayal.
Corbyn backstabbed Hillary Benn and Remain, 'I am only 70% pro EU' which is why he is in this mess in the first place
He was never committed to Remain.
You seem to have a problem with the difference between disagreement and backstabbing
Sorry Corbyn publicly backed Remain and as Labour leader it was his duty to get Labour voters out for Remain, a task at which he performed abysmally even expressing reservations about The EU on The Last Leg which would have had many Labour voters watching it, he may well even have voted Leave despite his expressions to the contrary, at least Field and Hoey had the decency to express their support for Leave unlike Corbyn who backed Remain and ended up undermining it
I got 14/15 although that included a couple of correct guesses. The Ordinary World question was a bit silly since that phrase was included in the lyrics given. My wrong answer was the Tiffany question.
Actually, Ordinary World was a 90s song from Duran Duran...
Love that picture of a Flock of Seagulls. One cool guy, knowing he's cool. One dweeb, desperately trying to be cool but failing. One guy wearing the cool outfit looking soooo uncomfortable. Then the guy on the left thinking "This is the shit I have to put up with to play in this band"
O/T @rcs1000's favourite French minister Emmanuel Macron is resigning.
Macron's decision to resign as Finance Minister and run for president is significant, he polls higher than Hollande and has a real chance, especially if Hollande does not seek re-election. He or Juppe must be the favourites to face Marine Le Pen in the second round and probably become the next French President, although if Sarkozy wins the Les Republicains nomination he also has a shot. Will be interesting to see what PM Valls does too
There is zero chance than any member of the present french government is going to be elected president in 2017.
It's finance minister especially, in a country still mired in economic malaise and crisis.
The only way Le Pen has a chance is facing a socialist.
Macron will run on a centrist platform not as the Socialist candidate, he actually polls better than Hollande and Sarkozy. If Hollande decides against running for another term you could even see Macron, Valls, Sarkozy and Juppe all running in round 1 for the chance to face Le Pen in round 2. If Hollande runs again swap him for Valls
The french socialists have around 15% in the polls, and are presiding over a historic collapse of the french state on the economy and security.
They have zero chance.
It's ironic that Corbyn's Labour is currently the largest centre-left party in the west.
Um, what's anything 'centre' about Corbyn's Labour?
Very little over the past year. But likewise most European "centre-right" parties only seem to be "centre" in so far as they can't trace their roots back to fascism.
On the Apple Irish tax question, I'm puzzled as to how Ireland could ever collect the dosh even if it wanted to. Let's suppose the Irish government doesn't appeal, or loses the appeal, then what next? If it then decides to try to collect the extra tax, then presumably it would have to collect it under Irish law. Apple would no doubt resist that in the Irish courts, and surely they'd have a strong, not to say impregnable case? After all, the Irish government itself has stated in no uncertain terms that the extra tax isn't payable, and there's no suggestion that Irish tax law has been broken.
Labour are really scraping the bottom of the barrel with Smith. A man whose best attempt at humour consists of making dick jokes is not fit to lead a local association let alone the party.
I got 14/15 although that included a couple of correct guesses. The Ordinary World question was a bit silly since that phrase was included in the lyrics given. My wrong answer was the Tiffany question.
Actually, Ordinary World was a 90s song from Duran Duran...
Love that picture of a Flock of Seagulls. One cool guy, knowing he's cool. One dweeb, desperately trying to be cool but failing. One guy wearing the cool outfit looking soooo uncomfortable. Then the guy on the left thinking "This is the shit I have to put up with to play in this band"
On the Apple Irish tax question, I'm puzzled as to how Ireland could ever collect the dosh even if they wanted to. Let's suppose the Irish government don't appeal, or lose the appeal, then what next? If they then decided to try to collect it, then presumably they'd have to collect it under Irish law. Apple would no doubt resist that in the Irish courts, and surely they'd have a strong, not to say impregnable case? After all, the Irish government itself has stated in no uncertain terms that the extra tax isn't payable, and there's no suggestion that Irish tax law has been broken.
That is an interesting question. What's more is that if they are unable to get Apple to pay and other countries start claiming their share of the €13bn, where does it come from? The commission has said that once the ruling is comfirmed that countries will be able to lodge their own claims on their share of the money in a diverted profits sort of way, Apple UK has diverted profits to Ireland with the lost tax take sitting over £2bn AIUI. Who pays the £2bn if the UK government decides to claim, then what about France, Germany and Italy all of whom will have similar claims. Then add in other Double Irish deals which will also find themselves subject to back taxes and foreign claims, the liability to the Irish state could end up bankrupting them. That'll learn them for playing with fire I guess.
US accuses the EU of fleecing American companies in regard to the Apple situation.
I am always fascinated about timing on this the Trade agreement falls over and the next day the EU does this. Ha!
I am sure there is no connection......
I proposed that the subsequent film should be called 'When Electoral Cycles Collide'. I'm putting my tin hat on to avoid the shells flying over the Atlantic for the foreseeable.
Sky bod saying Apple have grounds to appeal and many lawyers will be working on this. It could take up to several years passing through EU courts system.
She does go onto say though she thinks any appeal will fail. Bye bye Apple then and all those 7000 Irish jobs I suppose?
On the Apple Irish tax question, I'm puzzled as to how Ireland could ever collect the dosh even if they wanted to. Let's suppose the Irish government don't appeal, or lose the appeal, then what next? If they then decided to try to collect it, then presumably they'd have to collect it under Irish law. Apple would no doubt resist that in the Irish courts, and surely they'd have a strong, not to say impregnable case? After all, the Irish government itself has stated in no uncertain terms that the extra tax isn't payable, and there's no suggestion that Irish tax law has been broken.
That is an interesting question. What's more is that if they are unable to get Apple to pay and other countries start claiming their share of the €13bn, where does it come from? The commission has said that once the ruling is comfirmed that countries will be able to lodge their own claims on their share of the money in a diverted profits sort of way, Apple UK has diverted profits to Ireland with the lost tax take sitting over £2bn AIUI. Who pays the £2bn if the UK government decides to claim, then what about France, Germany and Italy all of whom will have similar claims. Then add in other Double Irish deals which will also find themselves subject to back taxes and foreign claims, the liability to the Irish state could end up bankrupting them. That'll learn them for playing with fire I guess.
Why would any other European countries have any claim on taxes paid (or not) to the Irish Exchequer by an Irish subsidiary of a US-based company? Surely the tax, if and when paid, is for the Irish government to spend as they please?
On the Apple Irish tax question, I'm puzzled as to how Ireland could ever collect the dosh even if they wanted to. Let's suppose the Irish government don't appeal, or lose the appeal, then what next? If they then decided to try to collect it, then presumably they'd have to collect it under Irish law. Apple would no doubt resist that in the Irish courts, and surely they'd have a strong, not to say impregnable case? After all, the Irish government itself has stated in no uncertain terms that the extra tax isn't payable, and there's no suggestion that Irish tax law has been broken.
That is an interesting question. What's more is that if they are unable to get Apple to pay and other countries start claiming their share of the €13bn, where does it come from? The commission has said that once the ruling is comfirmed that countries will be able to lodge their own claims on their share of the money in a diverted profits sort of way, Apple UK has diverted profits to Ireland with the lost tax take sitting over £2bn AIUI. Who pays the £2bn if the UK government decides to claim, then what about France, Germany and Italy all of whom will have similar claims. Then add in other Double Irish deals which will also find themselves subject to back taxes and foreign claims, the liability to the Irish state could end up bankrupting them. That'll learn them for playing with fire I guess.
Why would any other European countries have any claim on taxes paid (or not) to the Irish Exchequer by an Irish subsidiary of a US-based company? Surely the tax, if and when paid, is for the Irish government to spend as they please?
The claim is that the illegal state aid has caused tax losses in other countries. Such as the UK.
Yes now it is official Cash is Trash, I have decided just to spend, and give away to Grandchildren. Not forgiven Santander, I lost my B&B shares in the takeover/rescue.
Smith has just got my vote. Reluctantly as I don't think he's up to much but at least gives me a glimmer of hope that my party will survive to battle the enemy.
Smith has just got my vote. Reluctantly as I don't think he's up to much but at least gives me a glimmer of hope that my party will survive to battle the enemy.
At the moment, your party's enemy is Momentum. And Smith hasn't got a hope in hell of defeating them.
On the Apple Irish tax question, I'm puzzled as to how Ireland could ever collect the dosh even if they wanted to. Let's suppose the Irish government don't appeal, or lose the appeal, then what next? If they then decided to try to collect it, then presumably they'd have to collect it under Irish law. Apple would no doubt resist that in the Irish courts, and surely they'd have a strong, not to say impregnable case? After all, the Irish government itself has stated in no uncertain terms that the extra tax isn't payable, and there's no suggestion that Irish tax law has been broken.
That is an interesting question. What's more is that if they are unable to get Apple to pay and other countries start claiming their share of the €13bn, where does it come from? The commission has said that once the ruling is comfirmed that countries will be able to lodge their own claims on their share of the money in a diverted profits sort of way, Apple UK has diverted profits to Ireland with the lost tax take sitting over £2bn AIUI. Who pays the £2bn if the UK government decides to claim, then what about France, Germany and Italy all of whom will have similar claims. Then add in other Double Irish deals which will also find themselves subject to back taxes and foreign claims, the liability to the Irish state could end up bankrupting them. That'll learn them for playing with fire I guess.
Why would any other European countries have any claim on taxes paid (or not) to the Irish Exchequer by an Irish subsidiary of a US-based company? Surely the tax, if and when paid, is for the Irish government to spend as they please?
The claim is that the illegal state aid has caused tax losses in other countries. Such as the UK.
That assumes a great deal, for instance, that Apple would not have organized its affairs in such a way as to minimize the tax due to other EU countries.
And when the EU has ruled against state aid provided by other countries, have they been pursued by other states for the losses they suffered? Or is it only a small country which is to be punished?
Going after Ireland in such a way, just after Brexit, would seem foolish.
On the Apple Irish tax question, I'm puzzled as to how Ireland could ever collect the dosh even if they wanted to. Let's suppose the Irish government don't appeal, or lose the appeal, then what next? If they then decided to try to collect it, then presumably they'd have to collect it under Irish law. Apple would no doubt resist that in the Irish courts, and surely they'd have a strong, not to say impregnable case? After all, the Irish government itself has stated in no uncertain terms that the extra tax isn't payable, and there's no suggestion that Irish tax law has been broken.
That is an interesting question. What's more is that if they are unable to get Apple to pay and other countries start claiming their share of the €13bn, where does it come from? The commission has said that once the ruling is comfirmed that countries will be able to lodge their own claims on their share of the money in a diverted profits sort of way, Apple UK has diverted profits to Ireland with the lost tax take sitting over £2bn AIUI. Who pays the £2bn if the UK government decides to claim, then what about France, Germany and Italy all of whom will have similar claims. Then add in other Double Irish deals which will also find themselves subject to back taxes and foreign claims, the liability to the Irish state could end up bankrupting them. That'll learn them for playing with fire I guess.
Why would any other European countries have any claim on taxes paid (or not) to the Irish Exchequer by an Irish subsidiary of a US-based company? Surely the tax, if and when paid, is for the Irish government to spend as they please?
The claim is that the illegal state aid has caused tax losses in other countries. Such as the UK.
Not just that but illegal state aid based on a fundamentally fictitious head office. The link I posted at the start of the thread is incredibly clear as to the mechanics of the deal.
As an engineer, why would you despair about produce being measured in imperial? You build with produce much?
Yes there are well documented problems with confusion between litres and gallons, pounds and Kilos,https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimli_Glider The Hubble space telescope was also compromised. We need a standard system.
On the Apple Irish tax question, I'm puzzled as to how Ireland could ever collect the dosh even if they wanted to. Let's suppose the Irish government don't appeal, or lose the appeal, then what next? If they then decided to try to collect it, then presumably they'd have to collect it under Irish law. Apple would no doubt resist that in the Irish courts, and surely they'd have a strong, not to say impregnable case? After all, the Irish government itself has stated in no uncertain terms that the extra tax isn't payable, and there's no suggestion that Irish tax law has been broken.
That is an interesting question. What's more is that if they are unable to get Apple to pay and other countries start claiming their share of the €13bn, where does it come from? The commission has said that once the ruling is comfirmed that countries will be able to lodge their own claims on their share of the money in a diverted profits sort of way, Apple UK has diverted profits to Ireland with the lost tax take sitting over £2bn AIUI. Who pays the £2bn if the UK government decides to claim, then what about France, Germany and Italy all of whom will have similar claims. Then add in other Double Irish deals which will also find themselves subject to back taxes and foreign claims, the liability to the Irish state could end up bankrupting them. That'll learn them for playing with fire I guess.
Why would any other European countries have any claim on taxes paid (or not) to the Irish Exchequer by an Irish subsidiary of a US-based company? Surely the tax, if and when paid, is for the Irish government to spend as they please?
The claim is that the illegal state aid has caused tax losses in other countries. Such as the UK.
Not just that but illegal state aid based on a fundamentally fictitious head office. The link I posted at the start of the thread is incredibly clear as to the mechanics of the deal.
It's the Double Irish, a stateless entity owns the Irish subsidiary which in turn owns the European subsidiaries. The stateless entity isn't taxed at all and handily it charges its Irish subsidiary all of its profit margin. Funny how these things work.
On the Apple Irish tax question, I'm puzzled as to how Ireland could ever collect the dosh even if it wanted to. Let's suppose the Irish government doesn't appeal, or loses the appeal, then what next? If it then decides to try to collect the extra tax, then presumably it would have to collect it under Irish law. Apple would no doubt resist that in the Irish courts, and surely they'd have a strong, not to say impregnable case? After all, the Irish government itself has stated in no uncertain terms that the extra tax isn't payable, and there's no suggestion that Irish tax law has been broken.
And you wanted the UK to remain beholden to Brussels' whim.
As an engineer, why would you despair about produce being measured in imperial? You build with produce much?
Yes there are well documented problems with confusion between litres and gallons, pounds and Kilos,https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimli_Glider The Hubble space telescope was also compromised. We need a standard system.
Let engineers use a standard system then.
Still don't see why in addition a greengrocer can't sell someone a pound of tomatoes.
The Hubble space telescope was also compromised. We need a standard system.
Was that a Metric?Imperial thing?
I thought it was just perfectly ground to precisely the wrong shape.
There is a backup mirror in a shed somewhere made by a different supplier, but I don't think it has been revealed whether it too was ground to the wrong shape
Smith has just got my vote. Reluctantly as I don't think he's up to much but at least gives me a glimmer of hope that my party will survive to battle the enemy.
At the moment, your party's enemy is Momentum. And Smith hasn't got a hope in hell of defeating them.
Momentum probably has a third of the votes at best, if Smith wins a landslide amongst the non-Momentum vote he will win overall
As an engineer, why would you despair about produce being measured in imperial? You build with produce much?
Yes there are well documented problems with confusion between litres and gallons, pounds and Kilos,https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimli_Glider The Hubble space telescope was also compromised. We need a standard system.
Sometimes SI units are a good idea, aviation refuelling and space telescopes being two bloody good examples.
Apples and bananas, beer and milk, not so much, let them be sold by the pound or the pint.
That assumes a great deal, for instance, that Apple would not have organized its affairs in such a way as to minimize the tax due to other EU countries.
And when the EU has ruled against state aid provided by other countries, have they been pursued by other states for the losses they suffered? Or is it only a small country which is to be punished?
Going after Ireland in such a way, just after Brexit, would seem foolish.
Well the Irish seem to have knowingly and purposefully buggered over the rest of Europe with their Double Irish tax status for multinationals. I don't have the time to do all the numbers right now but I think since 2007 Apple alone have dodged about $25bn in tax in Europe, obviously with the lower Irish rate that means the back taxes to be collected are lower, but there is a suggestion of foul play on the part of the Irish at this point which has cost this country and other billions in lost tax revenues. They allowed multinationals to set up untaxable stateless entities into which all European profits from across the single market were funnelled. It's not just Apple. The whole thing stinks.
Labour are really scraping the bottom of the barrel with Smith. A man whose best attempt at humour consists of making dick jokes is not fit to lead a local association let alone the party.
To be fair (as a non-Smith supporter) I think he was stitched up - he says he was referring to his inside leg measurement and that seems more plausible for 29". Obviously it's a bit silly to be nattering about measurements at all, but not quite the same.
Similarly a piece in the Huff Post reporting him saying "no" to the question of whether he used his company's Viagra product was headlined as "I'm like a non-stop battery", which was an unrelated reply to a question about whether he was good at canvassing. The media seem to feel that having stitched up Corbyn for a year, they need to do the same to Smith for balance.
The claim is that the illegal state aid has caused tax losses in other countries. Such as the UK.
Not just that but illegal state aid based on a fundamentally fictitious head office. The link I posted at the start of the thread is incredibly clear as to the mechanics of the deal.
It's the Double Irish, a stateless entity owns the Irish subsidiary which in turn owns the European subsidiaries. The stateless entity isn't taxed at all and handily it charges its Irish subsidiary all of its profit margin. Funny how these things work.
Governments have only themselves to blame over these various scams. They have complicated and complicated tax laws all the time. They have introduced incentives after incentives and exemptions after exemptions, all done so that they can appear to be generous or tough or both. The only result of all this furious activity is that the tax laws are so complicated that it is easy for those (companies/individuals with money to pay for advice) to find ways round and through all this stuff. If governments had kept it simple and not tinkered all the time, we might not be in this mess in the first place. Now they're whining at the results of what they put in place. I don't have much sympathy for companies who feel no obligations at all to the countries they operate in but even less for governments who have created this cat's cradle in the first place.
The only losers are mugs like me on PAYE who pay extortionate marginal rates of tax and, frankly, get damn all - by comparison with those at the top and the bottom - in return. And I am one of those who accept that tax is part of the price to be paid for living in a civilised country. I still resent the fact that an ever increasing burden appears to be placed on ever fewer human taxpayers.
If parties - constantly going on about fairness - really believed in this concept, they'd make sure that as many people and companies as possible paid something so that the burden was more evenly shared and, consequently, less for individual taxpayers. Some hope.....
Smith has just got my vote. Reluctantly as I don't think he's up to much but at least gives me a glimmer of hope that my party will survive to battle the enemy.
At the moment, your party's enemy is Momentum. And Smith hasn't got a hope in hell of defeating them.
Momentum probably has a third of the votes at best, if Smith wins a landslide amongst the non-Momentum vote he will win overall
It is not their vote share that is important - it is their penetration of key positions and bullying nature.
That assumes a great deal, for instance, that Apple would not have organized its affairs in such a way as to minimize the tax due to other EU countries.
And when the EU has ruled against state aid provided by other countries, have they been pursued by other states for the losses they suffered? Or is it only a small country which is to be punished?
Going after Ireland in such a way, just after Brexit, would seem foolish.
Well the Irish seem to have knowingly and purposefully buggered over the rest of Europe with their Double Irish tax status for multinationals. I don't have the time to do all the numbers right now but I think since 2007 Apple alone have dodged about $25bn in tax in Europe, obviously with the lower Irish rate that means the back taxes to be collected are lower, but there is a suggestion of foul play on the part of the Irish at this point which has cost this country and other billions in lost tax revenues. They allowed multinationals to set up untaxable stateless entities into which all European profits from across the single market were funnelled. It's not just Apple. The whole thing stinks.
When it comes to buggering over the rest of Europe, Ireland is hardly on its own. What about Luxembourg? Or the Netherlands? Or the UK, come to that? Or the Germans? Or the Italians - who have flagrantly not complied with numerous judgments against them? Or the French?
All of a sudden these countries find religion when there's a little country to bully...... Yeah, right. All in favour of a single market until they work out the consequences for them. All in favour of free movement until they start putting up barriers. All in favour of international treaties on refugees until it's inconvenient.
You're right. The whole thing stinks. But let's not pretend that Ireland is some sort of unique villain here.
On the Apple Irish tax question, I'm puzzled as to how Ireland could ever collect the dosh even if they wanted to. Let's suppose the Irish government don't appeal, or lose the appeal, then what next? If they then decided to try to collect it, then presumably they'd have to collect it under Irish law. Apple would no doubt resist that in the Irish courts, and surely they'd have a strong, not to say impregnable case? After all, the Irish government itself has stated in no uncertain terms that the extra tax isn't payable, and there's no suggestion that Irish tax law has been broken.
That is an interesting question. What's more is that if they are unable to get Apple to pay and other countries start claiming their share of the €13bn, where does it come from? The commission has said that once the ruling is comfirmed that countries will be able to lodge their own claims on their share of the money in a diverted profits sort of way, Apple UK has diverted profits to Ireland with the lost tax take sitting over £2bn AIUI. Who pays the £2bn if the UK government decides to claim, then what about France, Germany and Italy all of whom will have similar claims. Then add in other Double Irish deals which will also find themselves subject to back taxes and foreign claims, the liability to the Irish state could end up bankrupting them. That'll learn them for playing with fire I guess.
Why would any other European countries have any claim on taxes paid (or not) to the Irish Exchequer by an Irish subsidiary of a US-based company? Surely the tax, if and when paid, is for the Irish government to spend as they please?
The claim is that the illegal state aid has caused tax losses in other countries. Such as the UK.
That assumes a great deal, for instance, that Apple would not have organized its affairs in such a way as to minimize the tax due to other EU countries.
And when the EU has ruled against state aid provided by other countries, have they been pursued by other states for the losses they suffered? Or is it only a small country which is to be punished?
Going after Ireland in such a way, just after Brexit, would seem foolish.
Smith has just got my vote. Reluctantly as I don't think he's up to much but at least gives me a glimmer of hope that my party will survive to battle the enemy.
At the moment, your party's enemy is Momentum. And Smith hasn't got a hope in hell of defeating them.
Momentum probably has a third of the votes at best, if Smith wins a landslide amongst the non-Momentum vote he will win overall
It is not their vote share that is important - it is their penetration of key positions and bullying nature.
Until Momentum is gone, Labour isn't safe
If Smith wins he will have to purge Momentum in the same way Kinnock purged Militant, in a way it was Kinnock who saved the Labour Party in the 80s, Blair just took the glory in the 90s once the hard work had been done
As an engineer, why would you despair about produce being measured in imperial? You build with produce much?
I don't want 'a return to imperial' - metric is fine [although, despite being born in 1975, I still generally think in terms of imperial measurements (what sort of berk measures out 113 grams of flour and 284 ml of milk to go with their egg when making a pancake?) - imperial measurements having the definite advantage of being quicker to say]. But I do want to private entities to be able to transact in whatever measurements they agree between themselves. If I want to buy a pound of mince from the butcher, and he wants to sell me a pound of mince, and we have no quibbles over the poundliness of said mince, the state has no business directing me to use other units under threat of prosecution. If however he would sooner sell me mince in grams, I'm not going to grumble; I'm quite capable of mentally translating pounds to grams.
Meanwhile, I will continue to calculate area in metric, that being easier (for me). And I'll translate the end result to acres at the end if the person paying for the work wants me to.
The Hubble space telescope was also compromised. We need a standard system.
Was that a Metric?Imperial thing?
I thought it was just perfectly ground to precisely the wrong shape.
There is a backup mirror in a shed somewhere made by a different supplier, but I don't think it has been revealed whether it too was ground to the wrong shape
I just dug up this fascinating paper on the Hubble problems: http://people.tamu.edu/~v-buenger/658/Hubble.pdf Looks like incorrectly calibrated measuring equipment rather than a metric/imperial error, under massive pressures of time and budget and with nanometre precision required.
As an engineer, why would you despair about produce being measured in imperial? You build with produce much?
Yes there are well documented problems with confusion between litres and gallons, pounds and Kilos,https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimli_Glider The Hubble space telescope was also compromised. We need a standard system.
It was the Mars Climate Orbiter that suffered from the imperial/metric snafu. Hubble was a whole other issue.
Personally, I'm bi-measurement. I'll cheerfully order food in grams or ounces depending on the recipe, I've still got wood that's measured in metres by inches in the garage etc.
This should be one of those things that we should just lighten up and let people do as they please, whether customer or shopkeeper.
On the Apple Irish tax question, I'm puzzled as to how Ireland could ever collect the dosh even if they wanted to. Let's suppose the Irish government don't appeal, or lose the appeal, then what next? If they then decided to try to collect it, then presumably they'd have to collect it under Irish law. Apple would no doubt resist that in the Irish courts, and surely they'd have a strong, not to say impregnable case? After all, the Irish government itself has stated in no uncertain terms that the extra tax isn't payable, and there's no suggestion that Irish tax law has been broken.
That is an interesting question. What's more is that if they are unable to get Apple to pay and other countries start claiming their share of the €13bn, where does it come from? The commission has said that once the ruling is comfirmed that countries will be able to lodge their own claims on their share of the money in a diverted profits sort of way, Apple UK has diverted profits to Ireland with the lost tax take sitting over £2bn AIUI. Who pays the £2bn if the UK government decides to claim, then what about France, Germany and Italy all of whom will have similar claims. Then add in other Double Irish deals which will also find themselves subject to back taxes and foreign claims, the liability to the Irish state could end up bankrupting them. That'll learn them for playing with fire I guess.
Why would any other European countries have any claim on taxes paid (or not) to the Irish Exchequer by an Irish subsidiary of a US-based company? Surely the tax, if and when paid, is for the Irish government to spend as they please?
The claim is that the illegal state aid has caused tax losses in other countries. Such as the UK.
Not just that but illegal state aid based on a fundamentally fictitious head office. The link I posted at the start of the thread is incredibly clear as to the mechanics of the deal.
It's the Double Irish, a stateless entity owns the Irish subsidiary which in turn owns the European subsidiaries. The stateless entity isn't taxed at all and handily it charges its Irish subsidiary all of its profit margin. Funny how these things work.
It's not a double Irish, a double Irish is for transfer pricing shenanigans to get the money to a tax haven as practice by Google and Starbucks. Apple have the money in Ireland, just completely untaxed. That's why it was 'easy' to rule this illegal as it relied on a special exemption for Apple in Ireland.
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On the Apple Irish tax question, I'm puzzled as to how Ireland could ever collect the dosh even if it wanted to. Let's suppose the Irish government doesn't appeal, or loses the appeal, then what next? If it then decides to try to collect the extra tax, then presumably it would have to collect it under Irish law. Apple would no doubt resist that in the Irish courts, and surely they'd have a strong, not to say impregnable case? After all, the Irish government itself has stated in no uncertain terms that the extra tax isn't payable, and there's no suggestion that Irish tax law has been broken.
Isn't it repayment of illegal state aid, not a tax collection issue?
As an engineer, why would you despair about produce being measured in imperial? You build with produce much?
I don't want 'a return to imperial' - metric is fine [although, despite being born in 1975, I still generally think in terms of imperial measurements (what sort of berk measures out 113 grams of flour and 284 ml of milk to go with their egg when making a pancake?) - imperial measurements having the definite advantage of being quicker to say]. But I do want to private entities to be able to transact in whatever measurements they agree between themselves. If I want to buy a pound of mince from the butcher, and he wants to sell me a pound of mince, and we have no quibbles over the poundliness of said mince, the state has no business directing me to use other units under threat of prosecution. If however he would sooner sell me mince in grams, I'm not going to grumble; I'm quite capable of mentally translating pounds to grams.
Meanwhile, I will continue to calculate area in metric, that being easier (for me). And I'll translate the end result to acres at the end if the person paying for the work wants me to.
The one that gets me for no particular reason is distance as in satnavs saying "you are 2.1 miles from the next turning" = ok, while "you are 854 yds from your next turning" = all wrong, and "xxx metres" is much better.
On the Apple Irish tax question, I'm puzzled as to how Ireland could ever collect the dosh even if they wanted to. Let's suppose the Irish government don't appeal, or lose the appeal, then what next? If they then decided to try to collect it, then presumably they'd have to collect it under Irish law. Apple would no doubt resist that in the Irish courts, and surely they'd have a strong, not to say impregnable case? After all, the Irish government itself has stated in no uncertain terms that the extra tax isn't payable, and there's no suggestion that Irish tax law has been broken.
That is an interesting question. What's more is that if they are unable to get Apple to pay and other countries start claiming their share of the €13bn, where does it come from? The commission has said that once the ruling is comfirmed that countries will be able to lodge their own claims on their share of the money in a diverted profits sort of way, Apple UK has diverted profits to Ireland with the lost tax take sitting over £2bn AIUI. Who pays the £2bn if the UK government decides to claim, then what about France, Germany and Italy all of whom will have similar claims. Then add in other Double Irish deals which will also find themselves subject to back taxes and foreign claims, the liability to the Irish state could end up bankrupting them. That'll learn them for playing with fire I guess.
Why would any other European countries have any claim on taxes paid (or not) to the Irish Exchequer by an Irish subsidiary of a US-based company? Surely the tax, if and when paid, is for the Irish government to spend as they please?
The claim is that the illegal state aid has caused tax losses in other countries. Such as the UK.
Does anyone know though if Apple and only Apple had access to such arrangements, or were such possibilities open to all and Apple have just been the most efficient at playing the system?
One wonders if it were France or Italy let alone Germany if the Commission would be pursuing this with such determination. Ireland is small and its low tax has been getting up other countries' noses for years - picking on the little kid in the playground?
Beyond the bizzare spectacle of a govt saying "no no don't pay off 7% of our debt", what message is it sending to all companies that the Commission is going to retrospectively poke around in tax affairs years after the event. Might not be seen as very business friendly ( though there is a general issue with corporate tax for sure), and might backfire. Especially for Ireland - it's not as if they've got a big English speaking neighbour, friendly to (say) America, setting low corporate tax rates, that is likely to be in a position to tell the Commission to bugger off soon - oh wait...
As an engineer, why would you despair about produce being measured in imperial? You build with produce much?
Yes there are well documented problems with confusion between litres and gallons, pounds and Kilos,https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimli_Glider The Hubble space telescope was also compromised. We need a standard system.
Let engineers use a standard system then.
Still don't see why in addition a greengrocer can't sell someone a pound of tomatoes.
For the same reason that having made the jump, going back to £sd would be daft.
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Labour are really scraping the bottom of the barrel with Smith. A man whose best attempt at humour consists of making dick jokes is not fit to lead a local association let alone the party.
To be fair (as a non-Smith supporter) I think he was stitched up - he says he was referring to his inside leg measurement and that seems more plausible for 29". Obviously it's a bit silly to be nattering about measurements at all, but not quite the same.
Similarly a piece in the Huff Post reporting him saying "no" to the question of whether he used his company's Viagra product was headlined as "I'm like a non-stop battery", which was an unrelated reply to a question about whether he was good at canvassing. The media seem to feel that having stitched up Corbyn for a year, they need to do the same to Smith for balance.
The media haven't stiched up Corbyn, Nick, they have just reported what he has done. That you should see the reporting of his activities, beliefs, sympathies, associations, utterances, and, most recently, attempted absurd train seat martyrdom, as a stich up is actually quite telling.
My one regret over the imperial system is that we appeared to have wimped out on chains per furlong. When I rule the UK as Benign Despotperson for Life, it will change to 11.
On the Apple Irish tax question, I'm puzzled as to how Ireland could ever collect the dosh even if it wanted to. Let's suppose the Irish government doesn't appeal, or loses the appeal, then what next? If it then decides to try to collect the extra tax, then presumably it would have to collect it under Irish law. Apple would no doubt resist that in the Irish courts, and surely they'd have a strong, not to say impregnable case? After all, the Irish government itself has stated in no uncertain terms that the extra tax isn't payable, and there's no suggestion that Irish tax law has been broken.
Isn't it repayment of illegal state aid, not a tax collection issue?
Hm, I don't know how most state aid rulings are enforced
Smith has just got my vote. Reluctantly as I don't think he's up to much but at least gives me a glimmer of hope that my party will survive to battle the enemy.
At the moment, your party's enemy is Momentum. And Smith hasn't got a hope in hell of defeating them.
Momentum probably has a third of the votes at best, if Smith wins a landslide amongst the non-Momentum vote he will win overall
It is not their vote share that is important - it is their penetration of key positions and bullying nature.
Until Momentum is gone, Labour isn't safe
If Smith wins he will have to purge Momentum in the same way Kinnock purged Militant, in a way it was Kinnock who saved the Labour Party in the 80s, Blair just took the glory in the 90s once the hard work had been done
Militant was not as entrenched as Momentum has become in just a few short months.
And Smith is no Kinnock. He doesn't stand a chance.
I would just like to put on record my delight that the Americans are very unhappy with the EU ruling over Apple..
If they are pissed off, so much the better , given their appalling behaviour wrt BP.
The decision amounted to "a transfer of revenue from U.S. taxpayers to the EU," White House press secretary Josh Earnest said. The Obama administration would fight for "American taxpayers and American businesses overseas when they're being treated unfairly," he added.
The poll has Jill Stein at 2% but I thought her name is not on the ballot in North Carolina.
This should worry Clinton Clinton holds a 54% to 33% lead when voters are asked whom they expect to win the election. Ninety-two percent (92%) of Clinton voters believe she will prevail, while only 66% of Trump supporters think he will.", complacency is her campaigns biggest danger.
That assumes a great deal, for instance, that Apple would not have organized its affairs in such a way as to minimize the tax due to other EU countries.
And when the EU has ruled against state aid provided by other countries, have they been pursued by other states for the losses they suffered? Or is it only a small country which is to be punished?
Going after Ireland in such a way, just after Brexit, would seem foolish.
Well the Irish seem to have knowingly and purposefully buggered over the rest of Europe with their Double Irish tax status for multinationals. I don't have the time to do all the numbers right now but I think since 2007 Apple alone have dodged about $25bn in tax in Europe, obviously with the lower Irish rate that means the back taxes to be collected are lower, but there is a suggestion of foul play on the part of the Irish at this point which has cost this country and other billions in lost tax revenues. They allowed multinationals to set up untaxable stateless entities into which all European profits from across the single market were funnelled. It's not just Apple. The whole thing stinks.
When it comes to buggering over the rest of Europe, Ireland is hardly on its own. What about Luxembourg? Or the Netherlands? Or the UK, come to that? Or the Germans? Or the Italians - who have flagrantly not complied with numerous judgments against them? Or the French?
All of a sudden these countries find religion when there's a little country to bully...... Yeah, right. All in favour of a single market until they work out the consequences for them. All in favour of free movement until they start putting up barriers. All in favour of international treaties on refugees until it's inconvenient.
You're right. The whole thing stinks. But let's not pretend that Ireland is some sort of unique villain here.
Let's hope the court goes after the others next, including us, if we've made similar dodgy deals. In the long run it's excellent news for chancellors everywhere, since the race to the bottom in taxation for multinationals while the rest of us cough up full rate is something which everyone from the SWP to UKIP finds disgusting.
That assumes a great deal, for instance, that Apple would not have organized its affairs in such a way as to minimize the tax due to other EU countries.
And when the EU has ruled against state aid provided by other countries, have they been pursued by other states for the losses they suffered? Or is it only a small country which is to be punished?
Going after Ireland in such a way, just after Brexit, would seem foolish.
Well the Irish seem to have knowingly and purposefully buggered over the rest of Europe with their Double Irish tax status for multinationals. I don't have the time to do all the numbers right now but I think since 2007 Apple alone have dodged about $25bn in tax in Europe, obviously with the lower Irish rate that means the back taxes to be collected are lower, but there is a suggestion of foul play on the part of the Irish at this point which has cost this country and other billions in lost tax revenues. They allowed multinationals to set up untaxable stateless entities into which all European profits from across the single market were funnelled. It's not just Apple. The whole thing stinks.
When it comes to buggering over the rest of Europe, Ireland is hardly on its own. What about Luxembourg? Or the Netherlands? Or the UK, come to that? Or the Germans? Or the Italians - who have flagrantly not complied with numerous judgments against them? Or the French?
All of a sudden these countries find religion when there's a little country to bully...... Yeah, right. All in favour of a single market until they work out the consequences for them. All in favour of free movement until they start putting up barriers. All in favour of international treaties on refugees until it's inconvenient.
You're right. The whole thing stinks. But let's not pretend that Ireland is some sort of unique villain here.
Let's hope the court goes after the others next, including us, if we've made similar dodgy deals. In the long run it's excellent news for chancellors everywhere, since the race to the bottom in taxation for multinationals while the rest of us cough up full rate is something which everyone from the SWP to UKIP finds disgusting.
There will always be another country (or countries) who are ready to set things up to help these big corporations - so it is a balance between some tax revenue or none. Whether you like it or not, unless there is complete global adherence to the same tax rules (which will never happen), there will always be ways of manipulating the difference regimes to ensure that companies pay as little as possible.
We need wealth creators, We need businesses. Setting the EU up as anti-business is a dreadful way of securing a future for the project.
There will always be another country (or countries) who are ready to set things up to help these big corporations - so it is a balance between some tax revenue or none. Whether you like it or not, unless there is complete global adherence to the same tax rules (which will never happen), there will always be ways of manipulating the difference regimes to ensure that companies pay as little as possible.
We need wealth creators, We need businesses. Setting the EU up as anti-business is a dreadful way of securing a future for the project.
But Ireland was only attractive because it was part of the EU.
Smith has just got my vote. Reluctantly as I don't think he's up to much but at least gives me a glimmer of hope that my party will survive to battle the enemy.
At the moment, your party's enemy is Momentum. And Smith hasn't got a hope in hell of defeating them.
Momentum probably has a third of the votes at best, if Smith wins a landslide amongst the non-Momentum vote he will win overall
It is not their vote share that is important - it is their penetration of key positions and bullying nature.
Until Momentum is gone, Labour isn't safe
If Smith wins he will have to purge Momentum in the same way Kinnock purged Militant, in a way it was Kinnock who saved the Labour Party in the 80s, Blair just took the glory in the 90s once the hard work had been done
Militant was not as entrenched as Momentum has become in just a few short months.
And Smith is no Kinnock. He doesn't stand a chance.
If Smith has a mandate from members as well as MPs he can do what he wants
Comments
US accuses the EU of fleecing American companies in regard to the Apple situation.
I am always fascinated about timing on this the Trade agreement falls over and the next day the EU does this. Ha!
I am sure there is no connection......
She does go onto say though she thinks any appeal will fail. Bye bye Apple then and all those 7000 Irish jobs I suppose?
Winners = lawyers
Losers = Apple workers
Do you think Corbyn will be applying for one? Just to make sure he can sit down - of course
Not forgiven Santander, I lost my B&B shares in the takeover/rescue.
More than 300 thousand businesses in Britain are now employee-owned: https://t.co/lc13tCeJfo
Post- Brexit 45% of people would like to return to imperial measurements for produce https://t.co/HNjjuoMPMQ https://t.co/URMk5FgdJj
And when the EU has ruled against state aid provided by other countries, have they been pursued by other states for the losses they suffered? Or is it only a small country which is to be punished?
Going after Ireland in such a way, just after Brexit, would seem foolish.
The Hubble space telescope was also compromised.
We need a standard system.
http://www.channel4.com/news/black-lives-matter-protest-at-heathrow
Clinton 43 .. Trump 45
Note - 4 point underpoll of AA voters.
http://www.theecps.com/
Still don't see why in addition a greengrocer can't sell someone a pound of tomatoes.
I thought it was just perfectly ground to precisely the wrong shape.
There is a backup mirror in a shed somewhere made by a different supplier, but I don't think it has been revealed whether it too was ground to the wrong shape
Apples and bananas, beer and milk, not so much, let them be sold by the pound or the pint.
http://www.murdermap.co.uk/investigate.asp
Any good, or a poor effort ?
I'd be happy to keep that rate from now till 2050 tbh...
Clinton & her allies aired nearly 1 TV ad, on average, every 3 minutes last week in Florida #sayfie @CMAGAdFacts https://t.co/TJtSBIDQqc
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Hillary Clinton & her allies aired 1 TV ad, on average, every 4 minutes last week in NC @CMAGAdFacts #ncpol https://t.co/5vjaxpNfdX
20,000+ TV ads aired last week. @realDonaldTrump accounted for 22% of them. @HillaryClinton? 56% via @CMAGAdFacts https://t.co/nyj8Pvc2Dy
Similarly a piece in the Huff Post reporting him saying "no" to the question of whether he used his company's Viagra product was headlined as "I'm like a non-stop battery", which was an unrelated reply to a question about whether he was good at canvassing. The media seem to feel that having stitched up Corbyn for a year, they need to do the same to Smith for balance.
Clinton 48 .. Trump 40
http://www.monmouth.edu/polling-institute/reports/MonmouthPoll_PA_083016/
Until Momentum is gone, Labour isn't safe
All of a sudden these countries find religion when there's a little country to bully...... Yeah, right. All in favour of a single market until they work out the consequences for them. All in favour of free movement until they start putting up barriers. All in favour of international treaties on refugees until it's inconvenient.
You're right. The whole thing stinks. But let's not pretend that Ireland is some sort of unique villain here.
If however he would sooner sell me mince in grams, I'm not going to grumble; I'm quite capable of mentally translating pounds to grams.
Meanwhile, I will continue to calculate area in metric, that being easier (for me). And I'll translate the end result to acres at the end if the person paying for the work wants me to.
http://people.tamu.edu/~v-buenger/658/Hubble.pdf
Looks like incorrectly calibrated measuring equipment rather than a metric/imperial error, under massive pressures of time and budget and with nanometre precision required.
It was the Mars Climate Orbiter that had a Metric problem.
http://www.cnn.com/TECH/space/9909/30/mars.metric.02/
Personally, I'm bi-measurement. I'll cheerfully order food in grams or ounces depending on the recipe, I've still got wood that's measured in metres by inches in the garage etc.
This should be one of those things that we should just lighten up and let people do as they please, whether customer or shopkeeper.
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>1mile imperial is best, <1mile metric is.
Go figure.
One wonders if it were France or Italy let alone Germany if the Commission would be pursuing this with such determination. Ireland is small and its low tax has been getting up other countries' noses for years - picking on the little kid in the playground?
Beyond the bizzare spectacle of a govt saying "no no don't pay off 7% of our debt", what message is it sending to all companies that the Commission is going to retrospectively poke around in tax affairs years after the event. Might not be seen as very business friendly ( though there is a general issue with corporate tax for sure), and might backfire. Especially for Ireland - it's not as if they've got a big English speaking neighbour, friendly to (say) America, setting low corporate tax rates, that is likely to be in a position to tell the Commission to bugger off soon - oh wait...
If they are pissed off, so much the better , given their appalling behaviour wrt BP.
And Smith is no Kinnock. He doesn't stand a chance.
No tears for the Irish government though, what are they going to do?
Leave the EU to protect Apple?
http://money.cnn.com/2016/08/30/technology/apple-tax-eu-us-ireland/
We need wealth creators, We need businesses. Setting the EU up as anti-business is a dreadful way of securing a future for the project.