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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Labour’s paradox: The huge increase in members hasn’t led t

SystemSystem Posts: 12,550
edited August 2016 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Labour’s paradox: The huge increase in members hasn’t led to greater electoral success, rather the reverse

One of the most extraordinary phenomenon of modern UK political times has been the massive increase in Labour’s membership since GE2015. The figures are just astounding and there is no parallel.

Read the full story here


«1345

Comments

  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    First like Jeremy!
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    It has surprised me how little research has been done into the nature of the new members of the Labour party. Are they different in kind from previous members or, more likely, are they just inexperienced in helping? If the latter, we might see Labour's ground game improve in the years ahead as they get more involved and more experienced.

    There is also a question of where they are. If Labour is piling up supporters in areas where it is already very strong or hopelessly weak (anecdotally, that seems possible), those numbers are going to be of limited value in a First Past The Post system.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,575
    AlastairMeeks said:

    It has surprised me how little research has been done into the nature of the new members of the Labour party. Are they different in kind from previous members or, more likely, are they just inexperienced in helping? If the latter, we might see Labour's ground game improve in the years ahead as they get more involved and more experienced.

    There is also a question of where they are. If Labour is piling up supporters in areas where it is already very strong or hopelessly weak (anecdotally, that seems possible), those numbers are going to be of limited value in a First Past The Post system.

    Tut tut Mr Meeks, we were assured Labour's ground game in the 2015 election was second to none :D
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    edited August 2016
    Morning all.

    Local elections next May should be fun - Corbyn’s Army, rampaging down a street near you…
  • madasafishmadasafish Posts: 659
    If the new members are anything like the new ones on LabourList, they will convert many voters to AnyoneButLabour.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,034
    madasafish said:

    If the new members are anything like the new ones on LabourList, they will convert many voters to AnyoneButLabour.

    Won't the new members limit their canvassing to their friends on Twitter, or the occasional trip to hear the Messiah speak during the campaign?

    I'm not sure they understand the knocking on doors bit.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    National - YouGov/Economist

    Clinton 48 .. Trump 41

    https://today.yougov.com/news/2016/08/09/yougoveconomist-poll-august-6-9-2016/
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Kansas - SUSA

    Clinton 39 .. Trump 44

    http://www.surveyusa.com/client/PollReport.aspx?g=048dcf9b-7e4e-4ca3-8da6-f0f3b7662e73
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    JackW said:

    Kansas - SUSA

    Clinton 39 .. Trump 44

    http://www.surveyusa.com/client/PollReport.aspx?g=048dcf9b-7e4e-4ca3-8da6-f0f3b7662e73

    Pretty good for Hillary in Kansas.

    Con take Bootle.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    foxinsoxuk said:

    Pretty good for Hillary in Kansas.

    Con take Bootle.

    UKIP GAIN Pyongyang South ....
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Times leader urges Labour to split
  • AndyDaltonAndyDalton Posts: 4
    Corbyn is now out to 1.11, having gone as short as 1.06. It's clearly all over for him and the hard left now.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 18,351
    As others have said, a great deal depends on who the new members are, how they're willing to help and what they're going to say and do when they do 'help'.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,298
    Sandpit said:

    madasafish said:

    If the new members are anything like the new ones on LabourList, they will convert many voters to AnyoneButLabour.

    Won't the new members limit their canvassing to their friends on Twitter, or the occasional trip to hear the Messiah speak during the campaign?

    I'm not sure they understand the knocking on doors bit.
    They should be made to knock on a thousand doors before they get to vote. Then see if their faith in the Jezziah is still as firm...
  • partypoliticalorphanpartypoliticalorphan Posts: 392
    Isn't the rise in SNP membership a parallel?

    Their membership per capita (Scotland to UK) is higher than Labour's. How are Nicola's army harnessing their recently acquired membership stength?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,897
    FPT
    SouthamObserver said:

    In Nova Scotia on the Atlantic Shore, near Halifax. It's absolutely stunning: 80 degrees, crystal clear water. And no-one is here. Just wonderful.

    I was in Halifax a few years back. Went out to that lighthouse etc. A lovely place (in summer), except that it was one of the few places with a property price boom as crazy as ours.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    partypoliticalorphan said:

    Isn't the rise in SNP membership a parallel?

    Their membership per capita (Scotland to UK) is higher than Labour's. How are Nicola's army harnessing their recently acquired membership stength?

    It's more of a hindrance. The membership want Indyref2, which Nicola knows she would lose
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,566
    As Euan McColm points out

    corbynistas banging on about the number of people at rallies! more than 600,000 people bought the first b*witched album.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,120
    JackW said:

    foxinsoxuk said:

    Pretty good for Hillary in Kansas.

    Con take Bootle.

    UKIP GAIN Pyongyang South ....
    Not too unlikely, surely. Isolationist party.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    As Euan McColm points out

    corbynistas banging on about the number of people at rallies! more than 600,000 people bought the first b*witched album.

    Were you one of them?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,575
    Scott_P said:

    partypoliticalorphan said:

    Isn't the rise in SNP membership a parallel?

    Their membership per capita (Scotland to UK) is higher than Labour's. How are Nicola's army harnessing their recently acquired membership stength?

    It's more of a hindrance. The membership want Indyref2, which Nicola knows she would lose
    Does Indy Ref 2 have a good subtitle yet?
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    david_herdson said:

    As others have said, a great deal depends on who the new members are, how they're willing to help and what they're going to say and do when they do 'help'.

    We need IOS to return, he is the expert on the ground game. In fact he was laughing so much at GE 2015 because Labour's ground game was so secret and fantastic, but sorry he couldn't tell us what it was.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,566
    Scott_P said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    As Euan McColm points out

    corbynistas banging on about the number of people at rallies! more than 600,000 people bought the first b*witched album.

    Were you one of them?
    I plead the fifth.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,701
    There was a good comment on here yesterday about the comparative votes for Simon in the Midlands and Khan in London for Mayor. I suspect that a very high share of the new members are in the latter where there is not much more that can realistically be won. Another 1000 members in Islington is not likely to make too much of a difference.

    That said this is a remarkable achievement as is the SNP in Scotland. A few years ago I think most assumed that the age of mass parties had gone forever. Labour has struggled financially since it fell out with Blair's cronies but should now be on a much more stable footing.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    As Euan McColm points out

    corbynistas banging on about the number of people at rallies! more than 600,000 people bought the first b*witched album.

    C'est la vie.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 18,351
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    As Euan McColm points out

    corbynistas banging on about the number of people at rallies! more than 600,000 people bought the first b*witched album.

    I blame that on the weatherman.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 10,079
    Is UKIP the only UK party losing membership?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 66,590
    MarqueeMark said:

    Sandpit said:

    madasafish said:

    If the new members are anything like the new ones on LabourList, they will convert many voters to AnyoneButLabour.

    Won't the new members limit their canvassing to their friends on Twitter, or the occasional trip to hear the Messiah speak during the campaign?

    I'm not sure they understand the knocking on doors bit.
    They should be made to knock on a thousand doors before they get to vote. Then see if their faith in the Jezziah is still as firm...

    This article is very well worth a read, wrt to the thread.


    "It is rather a simulation of a social movement — a form of clicktivism, of gesture politics based on an identification with ‘what Jeremy stands for’. It makes people feel like they are part of a ‘social movement’ without having to engage in the tricky, boring work of actually building one."

    https://medium.com/@matatatatat/the-terrifying-hubris-of-corbynism-6590054a9b57#.8wkoby8fp
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    Scott_P said:

    partypoliticalorphan said:

    Isn't the rise in SNP membership a parallel?

    Their membership per capita (Scotland to UK) is higher than Labour's. How are Nicola's army harnessing their recently acquired membership stength?

    It's more of a hindrance. The membership want Indyref2, which Nicola knows she would lose
    Nicola keeps going to European Capitals and keeps getting unhelpful responses - the latest from the German Foreign Minister (Angela was washing her hair):

    I hope that the UK finds a way forward that will benefit Europe as a whole in the end.

    http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14671389.Nicola_Sturgeon_visits_Berlin_for_post_Brexit_talks_with_German_foreign_minister/?ref=mr&lp=1
  • Innocent_AbroadInnocent_Abroad Posts: 3,294
    Are there any membership figures for the Trotskyist groupuscules - for to-day and before JC won Labour's leadership?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    I see Death has reminded us he is no respecter of wealth, power or privilege - the Duke of Westminster has shuffled off at 64:

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-37029915
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,661
    Trouble is that too many of the new members are dummy/phoney members who've joined solely to vote for Corbyn.

    It's a paper strength that I doubt will have much impact on the ground, except possibly in places like London, Bristol and Manchester, although Labour will be grateful for the extra funds.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,661
    DavidL said:

    There was a good comment on here yesterday about the comparative votes for Simon in the Midlands and Khan in London for Mayor. I suspect that a very high share of the new members are in the latter where there is not much more that can realistically be won. Another 1000 members in Islington is not likely to make too much of a difference.

    That said this is a remarkable achievement as is the SNP in Scotland. A few years ago I think most assumed that the age of mass parties had gone forever. Labour has struggled financially since it fell out with Blair's cronies but should now be on a much more stable footing.

    I'd like to see a renaissance of Conservative membership. Particularly from blue collar.

    As the governing party regularly clocking 40%+ in the polls now GB-wide there really is no excuse for it to be the veterans club of the Shires it too often is.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,661
    david_herdson said:

    As others have said, a great deal depends on who the new members are, how they're willing to help and what they're going to say and do when they do 'help'.

    They will share and like posts about Corbyn on Facebook, retweet supportive journalists..things like that.

    All counts, you know.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 66,590
    Casino_Royale said:

    Trouble is that too many of the new members are dummy/phoney members who've joined solely to vote for Corbyn.

    It's a paper strength that I doubt will have much impact on the ground, except possibly in places like London, Bristol and Manchester, although Labour will be grateful for the extra funds.

    They'll need the money for all the legal fees.
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    CarlottaVance said:

    I see Death has reminded us he is no respecter of wealth, power or privilege - the Duke of Westminster has shuffled off at 64:

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-37029915

    Death isn't cruel – merely terribly, terribly good at his job.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,661
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Scott_P said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    As Euan McColm points out

    corbynistas banging on about the number of people at rallies! more than 600,000 people bought the first b*witched album.

    Were you one of them?
    I plead the fifth.
    Dunno what's wrong with me this morning but I read an extra 'L' in your final word there.

    Wonder if anyone has ever said that on the witness stand.
  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    edited August 2016
    Sky news

    BMT state Eurostar workers will take 7 days of strike action in August over work / life balance.

    That's right guys strike right at the point everyone is trying to get a break themselves. C***s

  • Fat_SteveFat_Steve Posts: 361
    Is knocking on doors still what ordinary members are most useful for? Only, Labour's awesome ground game wasn't all that awesome in 2015.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,120
    CarlottaVance said:

    Scott_P said:

    partypoliticalorphan said:

    Isn't the rise in SNP membership a parallel?

    Their membership per capita (Scotland to UK) is higher than Labour's. How are Nicola's army harnessing their recently acquired membership stength?

    It's more of a hindrance. The membership want Indyref2, which Nicola knows she would lose
    Nicola keeps going to European Capitals and keeps getting unhelpful responses - the latest from the German Foreign Minister (Angela was washing her hair):

    I hope that the UK finds a way forward that will benefit Europe as a whole in the end.

    http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14671389.Nicola_Sturgeon_visits_Berlin_for_post_Brexit_talks_with_German_foreign_minister/?ref=mr&lp=1
    Worries about Bavaria?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,661
    RMT continuing to make a total nuisance of itself as the Millwall of the trade union world:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-37031386
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,453
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    As Euan McColm points out

    corbynistas banging on about the number of people at rallies! more than 600,000 people bought the first b*witched album.

    McColm is a balloon of the highest order, do a real comparison. Smith can hardly fill a phonebox, some competition if that is the best they can muster. The skulking cowardly rebels are nowhere to be seen. Corbyn is a Titan compared to those spineless sewer rats.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,453
    CarlottaVance said:

    Scott_P said:

    partypoliticalorphan said:

    Isn't the rise in SNP membership a parallel?

    Their membership per capita (Scotland to UK) is higher than Labour's. How are Nicola's army harnessing their recently acquired membership stength?

    It's more of a hindrance. The membership want Indyref2, which Nicola knows she would lose
    Nicola keeps going to European Capitals and keeps getting unhelpful responses - the latest from the German Foreign Minister (Angela was washing her hair):

    I hope that the UK finds a way forward that will benefit Europe as a whole in the end.

    http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14671389.Nicola_Sturgeon_visits_Berlin_for_post_Brexit_talks_with_German_foreign_minister/?ref=mr&lp=1
    Nicola ahead of the failed Westminster mob as usual, German Foreign Minister prefers to meet a real politician.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 22,107
    Labour's new members have thus far been focused on electoral battles within Labour, with considerable success. Time will tell what impact they will make outside. I suspect it will make a difference.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,701
    Good morning, everyone.

    Surprising stats, and another which caught my eye is that the SNP, which confines itself to 8% of the British population, has nearly as many members as the Conservatives.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,997
    edited August 2016
    malcolmg said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    As Euan McColm points out

    corbynistas banging on about the number of people at rallies! more than 600,000 people bought the first b*witched album.

    McColm is a balloon of the highest order, do a real comparison. Smith can hardly fill a phonebox, some competition if that is the best they can muster. The skulking cowardly rebels are nowhere to be seen. Corbyn is a Titan compared to those spineless sewer rats.
    The fact Corbyn is a Titan, compared to Smith, is indeed a problem for Labour.
  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    Jonathan said:

    Labour's new members have thus far been focused on electoral battles within Labour, with considerable success. Time will tell what impact they will make outside. I suspect it will make a difference.

    They have already made a huge difference. They have collectively made you unelectable.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    SimonStClare said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    I see Death has reminded us he is no respecter of wealth, power or privilege - the Duke of Westminster has shuffled off at 64:

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-37029915

    Death isn't cruel – merely terribly, terribly good at his job.
    As W C Fields observed 'It's a funny old world. A man's lucky to get out of it alive'

    And then there's the glorious, but almost certainly apocryphal deathbed story of Fields being found furiously leafing through the bible, when asked what he was doing, replied 'Looking for loopholes....'
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,453
    Sean_F said:

    malcolmg said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    As Euan McColm points out

    corbynistas banging on about the number of people at rallies! more than 600,000 people bought the first b*witched album.

    McColm is a balloon of the highest order, do a real comparison. Smith can hardly fill a phonebox, some competition if that is the best they can muster. The skulking cowardly rebels are nowhere to be seen. Corbyn is a Titan compared to those spineless sewer rats.
    The fact Corbyn is a Titan, compared to Smith, is indeed a problem for Labour.
    Where are all these great rebels hiding , only one seen so far is Watson and he makes a complete tit of himself with his "Trots under the bed" stupidity.
    Corbyn must be laughing his socks off.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    malcolmg said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    Scott_P said:

    partypoliticalorphan said:

    Isn't the rise in SNP membership a parallel?

    Their membership per capita (Scotland to UK) is higher than Labour's. How are Nicola's army harnessing their recently acquired membership stength?

    It's more of a hindrance. The membership want Indyref2, which Nicola knows she would lose
    Nicola keeps going to European Capitals and keeps getting unhelpful responses - the latest from the German Foreign Minister (Angela was washing her hair):

    I hope that the UK finds a way forward that will benefit Europe as a whole in the end.

    http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14671389.Nicola_Sturgeon_visits_Berlin_for_post_Brexit_talks_with_German_foreign_minister/?ref=mr&lp=1
    Nicola ahead of the failed Westminster mob as usual, German Foreign Minister prefers to meet a real politician.
    I know you're a stranger to facts - but May met Merkel three weeks ago:

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/20/theresa-may-faces-brexit-grilling-angela-merkel-berlin
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    OldKingCole said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    Scott_P said:

    partypoliticalorphan said:

    Isn't the rise in SNP membership a parallel?

    Their membership per capita (Scotland to UK) is higher than Labour's. How are Nicola's army harnessing their recently acquired membership stength?

    It's more of a hindrance. The membership want Indyref2, which Nicola knows she would lose
    Nicola keeps going to European Capitals and keeps getting unhelpful responses - the latest from the German Foreign Minister (Angela was washing her hair):

    I hope that the UK finds a way forward that will benefit Europe as a whole in the end.

    http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14671389.Nicola_Sturgeon_visits_Berlin_for_post_Brexit_talks_with_German_foreign_minister/?ref=mr&lp=1
    Worries about Bavaria?

    No, worries about upsetting the UK - one of Germany's largest car export markets.....
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,842
    Casino_Royale said:

    RMT continuing to make a total nuisance of itself as the Millwall of the trade union world:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-37031386

    The problem with the rail industry is that these people get such good basic pay that the attraction of rest day working has gone. But the train operators are still working to a model of not having enough staff because it is inefficient.
  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    For those who use Eurostar..... 12th Aug to 15th Aug

    "Eurostar rail workers are to take seven days of strike action this month in a dispute over their work-life balance, the RMT union says.
    Staff will walk out from 00:01 BST on 12 August until 23.59 BST on 15 August, and for three days over the Bank Holiday weekend from 27 August"

    BBC News
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,706
    Jonathan said:

    Labour's new members have thus far been focused on electoral battles within Labour, with considerable success. Time will tell what impact they will make outside. I suspect it will make a difference.

    I think that's right, though new members of all kinds take a while to produce seasoned activists (generally only 10% or so become regular canvassers etc.). The other area it helps is finance - it's healthy for parties to get their money more from lots of individuals than from a few donors.

    TBH though the key factor is party image, and while it's "squabbling ferrets" no amount of member effort will make a big difference, beyond limiting the damage.
    DavidL said:

    There was a good comment on here yesterday about the comparative votes for Simon in the Midlands and Khan in London for Mayor. I suspect that a very high share of the new members are in the latter where there is not much more that can realistically be won. Another 1000 members in Islington is not likely to make too much of a difference.

    That said this is a remarkable achievement as is the SNP in Scotland. A few years ago I think most assumed that the age of mass parties had gone forever. Labour has struggled financially since it fell out with Blair's cronies but should now be on a much more stable footing.

    The membership increase is pretty massive all over England (not sure about Scotland) - something like 80% in Broxtowe IIRC. I think the low poll for the West Mids was probably partly due to the one-sided contest - Simon is an experienced MP (who I rate highly for effective work, though some here disagree) and was up against a businessman who I think is entirely new to politics.

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,709
    21 golds for Phelps !!!

    He is now just 2 golds behind host Brazil in the all time stakes.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,842
    CarlottaVance said:

    OldKingCole said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    Scott_P said:

    partypoliticalorphan said:

    Isn't the rise in SNP membership a parallel?

    Their membership per capita (Scotland to UK) is higher than Labour's. How are Nicola's army harnessing their recently acquired membership stength?

    It's more of a hindrance. The membership want Indyref2, which Nicola knows she would lose
    Nicola keeps going to European Capitals and keeps getting unhelpful responses - the latest from the German Foreign Minister (Angela was washing her hair):

    I hope that the UK finds a way forward that will benefit Europe as a whole in the end.

    http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14671389.Nicola_Sturgeon_visits_Berlin_for_post_Brexit_talks_with_German_foreign_minister/?ref=mr&lp=1
    Worries about Bavaria?

    No, worries about upsetting the UK - one of Germany's largest car export markets.....
    Which in-turn means worries about Bavaria. What this will do is flush out where the power in the EU really lies.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,034
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    Surprising stats, and another which caught my eye is that the SNP, which confines itself to 8% of the British population, has nearly as many members as the Conservatives.

    You should join the Conservatives then, the more the merrier ;)
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 22,107
    Sandpit said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    Surprising stats, and another which caught my eye is that the SNP, which confines itself to 8% of the British population, has nearly as many members as the Conservatives.

    You should join the Conservatives then, the more the merrier ;)
    Will look good with a blue rinse.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 128,420
    Party membership is often inversely correlated to electoral success e.g. Tory membership rose to its highest point for years under William Hague before he was trounced in 2001 and Labour membership was at an all time low in 2005 when the party was reelected. Now Tory membership is low while Labour membership is at an all time high under Corbyn yet it is the Tories who have a big poll lead. The reason is most people who join political parties are more ideological than the average voter and will join a political party when it provides more of a platform for that ideology. The average swing voter though is not ideological and will vote on the practical basis of which party will be better for themselves and their family
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584
    Moses_ said:

    For those who use Eurostar..... 12th Aug to 15th Aug

    "Eurostar rail workers are to take seven days of strike action this month in a dispute over their work-life balance, the RMT union says.
    Staff will walk out from 00:01 BST on 12 August until 23.59 BST on 15 August, and for three days over the Bank Holiday weekend from 27 August"

    BBC News


    I know this is controversial, but I really do think it is time to ban strike action for anyone who works on critical infrastructure.

    There is no way a few should be allowed to cause harm to so many, just for their own internal dispute.

    Instead, binding arbitration should be used.

  • ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133
    rottenborough said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    Sandpit said:

    madasafish said:

    If the new members are anything like the new ones on LabourList, they will convert many voters to AnyoneButLabour.

    Won't the new members limit their canvassing to their friends on Twitter, or the occasional trip to hear the Messiah speak during the campaign?

    I'm not sure they understand the knocking on doors bit.
    They should be made to knock on a thousand doors before they get to vote. Then see if their faith in the Jezziah is still as firm...

    This article is very well worth a read, wrt to the thread.


    "It is rather a simulation of a social movement — a form of clicktivism, of gesture politics based on an identification with ‘what Jeremy stands for’. It makes people feel like they are part of a ‘social movement’ without having to engage in the tricky, boring work of actually building one."

    https://medium.com/@matatatatat/the-terrifying-hubris-of-corbynism-6590054a9b57#.8wkoby8fp
    For the vast majority of ‘new members’, joining the party was not a promise of future activity, but a gesture of general support — perhaps similar to signing a Change.org petition — for whatever they thought Corbyn as Labour leader symbolised.

    These people simply don't share the LDs' obsession with council by elections. Maybe some of them can be persuaded to do some work in national elections, but I have my doubts.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,997
    malcolmg said:

    Sean_F said:

    malcolmg said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    As Euan McColm points out

    corbynistas banging on about the number of people at rallies! more than 600,000 people bought the first b*witched album.

    McColm is a balloon of the highest order, do a real comparison. Smith can hardly fill a phonebox, some competition if that is the best they can muster. The skulking cowardly rebels are nowhere to be seen. Corbyn is a Titan compared to those spineless sewer rats.
    The fact Corbyn is a Titan, compared to Smith, is indeed a problem for Labour.
    Where are all these great rebels hiding , only one seen so far is Watson and he makes a complete tit of himself with his "Trots under the bed" stupidity.
    Corbyn must be laughing his socks off.
    There's a big shortage of talent in the Labour Party.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,566
    edited August 2016
    Trump’s Ambiguous Wink Wink to ‘Second Amendment People’

    And that, ladies and gentlemen, is how Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin got assassinated.

    His right-wing opponents just kept delegitimizing him as a “traitor” and “a Nazi” for wanting to make peace with the Palestinians and give back part of the Land of Israel. Of course, all is fair in politics, right? And they had God on their side, right? They weren’t actually telling anyone to assassinate Rabin. That would be horrible.

    But there are always people down the line who don’t hear the caveats. They just hear the big message: The man is illegitimate, the man is a threat to the nation, the man is the equivalent of a Nazi war criminal. Well, you know what we do with people like that, don’t you? We kill them.

    And that’s what the Jewish extremist Yigal Amir did to Rabin. Why not? He thought he had permission from a whole segment of Israel’s political class.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/10/opinion/trumps-ambiguous-wink-wink-to-second-amendment-people.html?_r=0
  • ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133
    MarkHopkins said:

    Moses_ said:

    For those who use Eurostar..... 12th Aug to 15th Aug

    "Eurostar rail workers are to take seven days of strike action this month in a dispute over their work-life balance, the RMT union says.
    Staff will walk out from 00:01 BST on 12 August until 23.59 BST on 15 August, and for three days over the Bank Holiday weekend from 27 August"

    BBC News


    I know this is controversial, but I really do think it is time to ban strike action for anyone who works on critical infrastructure.

    There is no way a few should be allowed to cause harm to so many, just for their own internal dispute.

    Instead, binding arbitration should be used.

    And especially since the many can't do anything about whatever has caused the dispute.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,997
    HYUFD said:

    Party membership is often inversely correlated to electoral success e.g. Tory membership rose to its highest point for years under William Hague before he was trounced in 2001 and Labour membership was at an all time low in 2005 when the party was reelected. Now Tory membership is low while Labour membership is at an all time high under Corbyn yet it is the Tories who have a big poll lead. The reason is most people who join political parties are more ideological than the average voter and will join a political party when it provides more of a platform for that ideology. The average swing voter though is not ideological and will vote on the practical basis of which party will be better for themselves and their family

    When Conservative membership was huge, it was basically a big social club. I can remember plenty of enjoyable events in my youth. But that social side has now disappeared.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,034
    Casino_Royale said:

    RMT continuing to make a total nuisance of itself as the Millwall of the trade union world:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-37031386

    "Train Managers", or guards as we used to call them. Looks like they'll be using other staff (Train Manager Managers?) to open the automatic doors and check the already-checked tickets for a few days of a Sunday schedule.

    Now where was that new Union legislation that Dave put on the back burner in exchange for support for the Remain vote?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,566
    Sean_F said:

    malcolmg said:

    Sean_F said:

    malcolmg said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    As Euan McColm points out

    corbynistas banging on about the number of people at rallies! more than 600,000 people bought the first b*witched album.

    McColm is a balloon of the highest order, do a real comparison. Smith can hardly fill a phonebox, some competition if that is the best they can muster. The skulking cowardly rebels are nowhere to be seen. Corbyn is a Titan compared to those spineless sewer rats.
    The fact Corbyn is a Titan, compared to Smith, is indeed a problem for Labour.
    Where are all these great rebels hiding , only one seen so far is Watson and he makes a complete tit of himself with his "Trots under the bed" stupidity.
    Corbyn must be laughing his socks off.
    There's a big shortage of talent in the Labour Party.
    The piece I'm writing for this weekend puts all the blame on Labour's current problems on Gordon Brown.

    He kept on crushing anyone who was a threat to him between 1997-2007, thus draining Labour's talent pool.

    For example just think Alan Milburn is just 58, which makes younger than Theresa May, there's several others, James Purnell...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 128,420
    CarlottaVance said:

    I see Death has reminded us he is no respecter of wealth, power or privilege - the Duke of Westminster has shuffled off at 64:

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-37029915

    We were discussing that last night, the £8 billion estate passes to his 25 year old son George
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,661
    Sean_F said:

    malcolmg said:

    Sean_F said:

    malcolmg said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    As Euan McColm points out

    corbynistas banging on about the number of people at rallies! more than 600,000 people bought the first b*witched album.

    McColm is a balloon of the highest order, do a real comparison. Smith can hardly fill a phonebox, some competition if that is the best they can muster. The skulking cowardly rebels are nowhere to be seen. Corbyn is a Titan compared to those spineless sewer rats.
    The fact Corbyn is a Titan, compared to Smith, is indeed a problem for Labour.
    Where are all these great rebels hiding , only one seen so far is Watson and he makes a complete tit of himself with his "Trots under the bed" stupidity.
    Corbyn must be laughing his socks off.
    There's a big shortage of talent in the Labour Party.
    I really think they need Ed Balls back.

    This is in no way connected to my 66/1 bet on him as next Labour leader.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 128,420
    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    Party membership is often inversely correlated to electoral success e.g. Tory membership rose to its highest point for years under William Hague before he was trounced in 2001 and Labour membership was at an all time low in 2005 when the party was reelected. Now Tory membership is low while Labour membership is at an all time high under Corbyn yet it is the Tories who have a big poll lead. The reason is most people who join political parties are more ideological than the average voter and will join a political party when it provides more of a platform for that ideology. The average swing voter though is not ideological and will vote on the practical basis of which party will be better for themselves and their family

    When Conservative membership was huge, it was basically a big social club. I can remember plenty of enjoyable events in my youth. But that social side has now disappeared.
    Indeed with online dating you no longer need Young Conservative dances to meet a potential partner. The YCs used to be largely a dating agency for the young middle-classes
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,084
    ThreeQuidder said:

    MarkHopkins said:

    Moses_ said:

    For those who use Eurostar..... 12th Aug to 15th Aug

    "Eurostar rail workers are to take seven days of strike action this month in a dispute over their work-life balance, the RMT union says.
    Staff will walk out from 00:01 BST on 12 August until 23.59 BST on 15 August, and for three days over the Bank Holiday weekend from 27 August"

    BBC News


    I know this is controversial, but I really do think it is time to ban strike action for anyone who works on critical infrastructure.

    There is no way a few should be allowed to cause harm to so many, just for their own internal dispute.

    Instead, binding arbitration should be used.

    And especially since the many can't do anything about whatever has caused the dispute.
    The right to strike is a fundamental right. I know that may not be popular with the right fruitcakes that live on this blog. I work for a company where we are in the process of changing attendance patterns and negotiations with the union have been challenging. I am very sympathetic to their concerns. We need to layer on the fact that the fat cats and the rich have never had it better.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,661
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Sean_F said:

    malcolmg said:

    Sean_F said:

    malcolmg said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    As Euan McColm points out

    corbynistas banging on about the number of people at rallies! more than 600,000 people bought the first b*witched album.

    McColm is a balloon of the highest order, do a real comparison. Smith can hardly fill a phonebox, some competition if that is the best they can muster. The skulking cowardly rebels are nowhere to be seen. Corbyn is a Titan compared to those spineless sewer rats.
    The fact Corbyn is a Titan, compared to Smith, is indeed a problem for Labour.
    Where are all these great rebels hiding , only one seen so far is Watson and he makes a complete tit of himself with his "Trots under the bed" stupidity.
    Corbyn must be laughing his socks off.
    There's a big shortage of talent in the Labour Party.
    The piece I'm writing for this weekend puts all the blame on Labour's current problems on Gordon Brown.

    He kept on crushing anyone who was a threat to him between 1997-2007, thus draining Labour's talent pool.

    For example just think Alan Milburn is just 58, which makes younger than Theresa May, there's several others, James Purnell...
    Spot on. Deeply flawed man, Brown.
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,193
    This Shadow Cabinet member is a right charmer.

    http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/gateshead-mp-demands-know-virgin-11692873
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,842
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Trump’s Ambiguous Wink Wink to ‘Second Amendment People’

    And that, ladies and gentlemen, is how Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin got assassinated.

    His right-wing opponents just kept delegitimizing him as a “traitor” and “a Nazi” for wanting to make peace with the Palestinians and give back part of the Land of Israel. Of course, all is fair in politics, right? And they had God on their side, right? They weren’t actually telling anyone to assassinate Rabin. That would be horrible.

    But there are always people down the line who don’t hear the caveats. They just hear the big message: The man is illegitimate, the man is a threat to the nation, the man is the equivalent of a Nazi war criminal. Well, you know what we do with people like that, don’t you? We kill them.

    And that’s what the Jewish extremist Yigal Amir did to Rabin. Why not? He thought he had permission from a whole segment of Israel’s political class.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/10/opinion/trumps-ambiguous-wink-wink-to-second-amendment-people.html?_r=0

    Very fair comment; though we should remember Trump himself has been subject to an assassination attempt - albeit a pretty rubbish one.
  • BudGBudG Posts: 711
    edited August 2016
    Jonathan said:

    Labour's new members have thus far been focused on electoral battles within Labour, with considerable success. Time will tell what impact they will make outside. I suspect it will make a difference.

    Agreed and despite what the media and the PLP would have you believe, the vast majority of the new members are not Trots or people from Momentum, if they were, they would certainly be more likely to be more active on the ground.

    Most of the new membership are people who have joined a political Party for the first time in their lives, inspired to do so by Corbyn. Previously a lot of these took little interest in politics. They had become disconnected from politics and felt that there was very little difference between the two major Parties and quite a few of them probably didn't even bother to vote at the last election because they felt there was little difference between the two major Parties.

    Many are, or at least were, politically naive. They imagined that once Corbyn was elected, the PLP would unite and be more interested in taking the fight to the Tories than fighting their own democratically elected leader. The last year has been a bit of an eye-opener for them.

    And you have to remember that a lot of these new members in Labour areas will have MP's who are opposed to Corbyn and therefore there is little motivation to do the hard work work of knocking on doors in support of an MP who is trying to undermine JC and (in their eyes) split the Party that they joined.

    Where the new members can be useful at this stage is on social media. Yes, I know it's not as effective as the hard grind of pounding the streets, but times HAVE changed and social media has more of an effect in politics than it did 25 years ago. Use of social media is never gonna be a replacement for knocking on doors, but it would be wrong to totally ignore it's potential. indeed, I would say that a lot of the increase in membership is down to use of social media by JC's supporters. I have noticed it over the last 18 months on Facebook. Friends who had previously shown no real interest in politics and had never made political postings were posting in support of JC and getting involved in discussion with other friends and encouraging them to join the Labour Party. I know of at least 3 or 4 people in my own circle who did actually join up in this way.

    Long term, depending upon the outcome of the current civil war, I think Labour will benefit from some of the new intake and they will take to the streets, knocking on doors and delivering leaflets.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,034
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Sean_F said:

    malcolmg said:

    Sean_F said:

    malcolmg said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    As Euan McColm points out

    corbynistas banging on about the number of people at rallies! more than 600,000 people bought the first b*witched album.

    McColm is a balloon of the highest order, do a real comparison. Smith can hardly fill a phonebox, some competition if that is the best they can muster. The skulking cowardly rebels are nowhere to be seen. Corbyn is a Titan compared to those spineless sewer rats.
    The fact Corbyn is a Titan, compared to Smith, is indeed a problem for Labour.
    Where are all these great rebels hiding , only one seen so far is Watson and he makes a complete tit of himself with his "Trots under the bed" stupidity.
    Corbyn must be laughing his socks off.
    There's a big shortage of talent in the Labour Party.
    The piece I'm writing for this weekend puts all the blame on Labour's current problems on Gordon Brown.

    He kept on crushing anyone who was a threat to him between 1997-2007, thus draining Labour's talent pool.

    For example just think Alan Milburn is just 58, which makes younger than Theresa May, there's several others, James Purnell...
    Purnell was the one who had the balls to actually resign from Brown's cabinet, after several others had agreed to but didn't follow through. Agree with Brown being the root of the problem, so many capable politicians were crushed by him, leaving a generational gap in the party.

    I still can't believe that in Dave Cameron, we have a 49 year old former prime minister.
  • ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133
    murali_s said:

    ThreeQuidder said:

    MarkHopkins said:

    Moses_ said:

    For those who use Eurostar..... 12th Aug to 15th Aug

    "Eurostar rail workers are to take seven days of strike action this month in a dispute over their work-life balance, the RMT union says.
    Staff will walk out from 00:01 BST on 12 August until 23.59 BST on 15 August, and for three days over the Bank Holiday weekend from 27 August"

    BBC News


    I know this is controversial, but I really do think it is time to ban strike action for anyone who works on critical infrastructure.

    There is no way a few should be allowed to cause harm to so many, just for their own internal dispute.

    Instead, binding arbitration should be used.

    And especially since the many can't do anything about whatever has caused the dispute.
    The right to strike is a fundamental right. I know that may not be popular with the right fruitcakes that live on this blog. I work for a company where we are in the process of changing attendance patterns and negotiations with the union have been challenging. I am very sympathetic to their concerns. We need to layer on the fact that the fat cats and the rich have never had it better.
    But the people who suffer are the ordinary working mugs who have to travel. The current nonsense on Southern is a case in point, although I can't actually believe that is caused by the union wanting guards and not drivers to close train doors: that surely has to be misreporting.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 128,420
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Sean_F said:

    malcolmg said:

    Sean_F said:

    malcolmg said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    As Euan McColm points out

    corbynistas banging on about the number of people at rallies! more than 600,000 people bought the first b*witched album.

    McColm is a balloon of the highest order, do a real comparison. Smith can hardly fill a phonebox, some competition if that is the best they can muster. The skulking cowardly rebels are nowhere to be seen. Corbyn is a Titan compared to those spineless sewer rats.
    The fact Corbyn is a Titan, compared to Smith, is indeed a problem for Labour.
    Where are all these great rebels hiding , only one seen so far is Watson and he makes a complete tit of himself with his "Trots under the bed" stupidity.
    Corbyn must be laughing his socks off.
    There's a big shortage of talent in the Labour Party.
    The piece I'm writing for this weekend puts all the blame on Labour's current problems on Gordon Brown.

    He kept on crushing anyone who was a threat to him between 1997-2007, thus draining Labour's talent pool.

    For example just think Alan Milburn is just 58, which makes younger than Theresa May, there's several others, James Purnell...
    Alan Milburn would have been miles better than Corbyn and indeed Ed Miliband too and he was northern, if a bit too slick but the Corbynistas would now just shout 'Tory' at him every time he got up to speak
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,248
    It is time to break the RMT, this is just getting ridiculous now. If the PM acts now just after they have announced strikes over the bank holiday weekend to bring back the union legislation that Dave put to one side for the referendum bung from Unite no one will have any complaints. It's time to break the power of the unions in public transport and hand over dispute management to a binding arbitration process.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,034
    HYUFD said:

    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    Party membership is often inversely correlated to electoral success e.g. Tory membership rose to its highest point for years under William Hague before he was trounced in 2001 and Labour membership was at an all time low in 2005 when the party was reelected. Now Tory membership is low while Labour membership is at an all time high under Corbyn yet it is the Tories who have a big poll lead. The reason is most people who join political parties are more ideological than the average voter and will join a political party when it provides more of a platform for that ideology. The average swing voter though is not ideological and will vote on the practical basis of which party will be better for themselves and their family

    When Conservative membership was huge, it was basically a big social club. I can remember plenty of enjoyable events in my youth. But that social side has now disappeared.
    Indeed with online dating you no longer need Young Conservative dances to meet a potential partner. The YCs used to be largely a dating agency for the young middle-classes
    Indeed it did ;):+1:
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 128,420
    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    Party membership is often inversely correlated to electoral success e.g. Tory membership rose to its highest point for years under William Hague before he was trounced in 2001 and Labour membership was at an all time low in 2005 when the party was reelected. Now Tory membership is low while Labour membership is at an all time high under Corbyn yet it is the Tories who have a big poll lead. The reason is most people who join political parties are more ideological than the average voter and will join a political party when it provides more of a platform for that ideology. The average swing voter though is not ideological and will vote on the practical basis of which party will be better for themselves and their family

    When Conservative membership was huge, it was basically a big social club. I can remember plenty of enjoyable events in my youth. But that social side has now disappeared.
    Indeed with online dating you no longer need Young Conservative dances to meet a potential partner. The YCs used to be largely a dating agency for the young middle-classes
    Indeed it did ;):+1:
    Indeed if you lived in a village or suburb in the 1950s the Young Conservatives were your social life (alongside perhaps the Young Farmers)
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,084
    ThreeQuidder said:

    murali_s said:

    ThreeQuidder said:

    MarkHopkins said:

    Moses_ said:

    For those who use Eurostar..... 12th Aug to 15th Aug

    "Eurostar rail workers are to take seven days of strike action this month in a dispute over their work-life balance, the RMT union says.
    Staff will walk out from 00:01 BST on 12 August until 23.59 BST on 15 August, and for three days over the Bank Holiday weekend from 27 August"

    BBC News


    I know this is controversial, but I really do think it is time to ban strike action for anyone who works on critical infrastructure.

    There is no way a few should be allowed to cause harm to so many, just for their own internal dispute.

    Instead, binding arbitration should be used.

    And especially since the many can't do anything about whatever has caused the dispute.
    The right to strike is a fundamental right. I know that may not be popular with the right fruitcakes that live on this blog. I work for a company where we are in the process of changing attendance patterns and negotiations with the union have been challenging. I am very sympathetic to their concerns. We need to layer on the fact that the fat cats and the rich have never had it better.
    But the people who suffer are the ordinary working mugs who have to travel. The current nonsense on Southern is a case in point, although I can't actually believe that is caused by the union wanting guards and not drivers to close train doors: that surely has to be misreporting.
    And of course the piss poor management of Southern has nothing to do with the legitatimate industrial action.
  • BannedInParisBannedInParis Posts: 2,191
    "One of the reasons PB monitors local by-elections so closely every week is that they are a great barometer of party organisation and morale. Labour’s new members should be giving it an edge that we can see every week. That hasn’t happened yet."

    "barometer of party organisation and morale"

    well, there you go.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,248
    ThreeQuidder said:

    murali_s said:

    ThreeQuidder said:

    MarkHopkins said:

    Moses_ said:

    For those who use Eurostar..... 12th Aug to 15th Aug

    "Eurostar rail workers are to take seven days of strike action this month in a dispute over their work-life balance, the RMT union says.
    Staff will walk out from 00:01 BST on 12 August until 23.59 BST on 15 August, and for three days over the Bank Holiday weekend from 27 August"

    BBC News


    I know this is controversial, but I really do think it is time to ban strike action for anyone who works on critical infrastructure.

    There is no way a few should be allowed to cause harm to so many, just for their own internal dispute.

    Instead, binding arbitration should be used.

    And especially since the many can't do anything about whatever has caused the dispute.
    The right to strike is a fundamental right. I know that may not be popular with the right fruitcakes that live on this blog. I work for a company where we are in the process of changing attendance patterns and negotiations with the union have been challenging. I am very sympathetic to their concerns. We need to layer on the fact that the fat cats and the rich have never had it better.
    But the people who suffer are the ordinary working mugs who have to travel. The current nonsense on Southern is a case in point, although I can't actually believe that is caused by the union wanting guards and not drivers to close train doors: that surely has to be misreporting.
    One of my cousins is now asking to work from home on a full time basis because of the travel difficulties adding an hour to her commute each way. I'm very lucky that I have an almost direct link to work and I can afford to live in London near a tube station, so many people are getting royally screwed by wildcat RMT strikes, sorry, sick days, and now an official strike over basically nothing.
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,783
    Jonathan said:

    Labour's new members have thus far been focused on electoral battles within Labour, with considerable success. Time will tell what impact they will make outside. I suspect it will make a difference.

    The only difference that I think it would make is that the few who might be drawn into door to door and telephone work might discover that their adulation of the Blessed Jeremy isn't contrary to their expectations shared by all and sundry, including those who are down as Labour supporters on their canvassing sheets. If they do change their view of him (which I doubt since their views seem immune to double digit opinion poll deficits) they'll find themselves in a minority and outvoted by those who sit on their arses, any of those who reached that conclusion long ago having departed the party by then.
  • ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133
    murali_s said:

    ThreeQuidder said:

    murali_s said:

    ThreeQuidder said:

    MarkHopkins said:

    Moses_ said:

    For those who use Eurostar..... 12th Aug to 15th Aug

    "Eurostar rail workers are to take seven days of strike action this month in a dispute over their work-life balance, the RMT union says.
    Staff will walk out from 00:01 BST on 12 August until 23.59 BST on 15 August, and for three days over the Bank Holiday weekend from 27 August"

    BBC News


    I know this is controversial, but I really do think it is time to ban strike action for anyone who works on critical infrastructure.

    There is no way a few should be allowed to cause harm to so many, just for their own internal dispute.

    Instead, binding arbitration should be used.

    And especially since the many can't do anything about whatever has caused the dispute.
    The right to strike is a fundamental right. I know that may not be popular with the right fruitcakes that live on this blog. I work for a company where we are in the process of changing attendance patterns and negotiations with the union have been challenging. I am very sympathetic to their concerns. We need to layer on the fact that the fat cats and the rich have never had it better.
    But the people who suffer are the ordinary working mugs who have to travel. The current nonsense on Southern is a case in point, although I can't actually believe that is caused by the union wanting guards and not drivers to close train doors: that surely has to be misreporting.
    And of course the piss poor management of Southern has nothing to do with the legitatimate industrial action.
    If the dispute is as reported, it isn't legitimate.

    The management, may I remind you, are not the ones causing misery to hundreds of thousands by being on strike.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 128,420
    edited August 2016
    Sandpit said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Sean_F said:

    malcolmg said:

    Sean_F said:

    malcolmg said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    As Euan McColm points out

    corbynistas banging on about the number of people at rallies! more than 600,000 people bought the first b*witched album.

    McColm is a balloon of the highest order, do a real comparison. Smith can hardly fill a phonebox, some competition if that is the best they can muster. The skulking cowardly rebels are nowhere to be seen. Corbyn is a Titan compared to those spineless sewer rats.
    The fact Corbyn is a Titan, compared to Smith, is indeed a problem for Labour.
    Where are all these great rebels hiding , only one seen so far is Watson and he makes a complete tit of himself with his "Trots under the bed" stupidity.
    Corbyn must be laughing his socks off.
    There's a big shortage of talent in the Labour Party.
    The piece I'm writing for this weekend puts all the blame on Labour's current problems on Gordon Brown.

    He kept on crushing anyone who was a threat to him between 1997-2007, thus draining Labour's talent pool.

    For example just think Alan Milburn is just 58, which makes younger than Theresa May, there's several others, James Purnell...
    Purnell was the one who had the balls to actually resign from Brown's cabinet, after several others had agreed to but didn't follow through. Agree with Brown being the root of the problem, so many capable politicians were crushed by him, leaving a generational gap in the party.

    I still can't believe that in Dave Cameron, we have a 49 year old former prime minister.
    Indeed, the new PM is ten years older than the former PM. Corbyn is almost 10 years older than her and indeed older than Brown
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,225
    Just another normal day in Rio...

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-3732520/Media-bus-attacked-travelling-venues-Olympic-Games.html
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,248
    ThreeQuidder said:

    murali_s said:

    ThreeQuidder said:

    murali_s said:

    ThreeQuidder said:

    MarkHopkins said:

    Moses_ said:

    For those who use Eurostar..... 12th Aug to 15th Aug

    "Eurostar rail workers are to take seven days of strike action this month in a dispute over their work-life balance, the RMT union says.
    Staff will walk out from 00:01 BST on 12 August until 23.59 BST on 15 August, and for three days over the Bank Holiday weekend from 27 August"

    BBC News


    I know this is controversial, but I really do think it is time to ban strike action for anyone who works on critical infrastructure.

    There is no way a few should be allowed to cause harm to so many, just for their own internal dispute.

    Instead, binding arbitration should be used.

    And especially since the many can't do anything about whatever has caused the dispute.
    The right to strike is a fundamental right. I know that may not be popular with the right fruitcakes that live on this blog. I work for a company where we are in the process of changing attendance patterns and negotiations with the union have been challenging. I am very sympathetic to their concerns. We need to layer on the fact that the fat cats and the rich have never had it better.
    But the people who suffer are the ordinary working mugs who have to travel. The current nonsense on Southern is a case in point, although I can't actually believe that is caused by the union wanting guards and not drivers to close train doors: that surely has to be misreporting.
    And of course the piss poor management of Southern has nothing to do with the legitatimate industrial action.
    If the dispute is as reported, it isn't legitimate.

    The management, may I remind you, are not the ones causing misery to hundreds of thousands by being on strike.
    Don't forget that before this official strike was called the union was actively coordinating sick days among drivers and staff to ensure maximum disruption to the time table. Time to break the union.
  • jayfdeejayfdee Posts: 618
    HYUFD said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    I see Death has reminded us he is no respecter of wealth, power or privilege - the Duke of Westminster has shuffled off at 64:

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-37029915

    We were discussing that last night, the £8 billion estate passes to his 25 year old son George
    I met the Duke on several occasions, and had some correspondence with him about erecting a memorial on his land. I always found him to be a very decent man.
    He owns a vast amount of land around here, and allows access to it, I hope his Heir continues to act as decently.
    Not everyone shares my view of him.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,997
    BudG said:

    Jonathan said:

    Labour's new members have thus far been focused on electoral battles within Labour, with considerable success. Time will tell what impact they will make outside. I suspect it will make a difference.

    Agreed and despite what the media and the PLP would have you believe, the vast majority of the new members are not Trots or people from Momentum, if they were, they would certainly be more likely to be more active on the ground.

    Most of the new membership are people who have joined a political Party for the first time in their lives, inspired to do so by Corbyn. Previously a lot of these took little interest in politics. They had become disconnected from politics and felt that there was very little difference between the two major Parties and quite a few of them probably didn't even bother to vote at the last election because they felt there was little difference between the two major Parties.

    Many are, or at least were, politically naive. They imagined that once Corbyn was elected, the PLP would unite and be more interested in taking the fight to the Tories than fighting their own democratically elected leader. The last year has been a bit of an eye-opener for them.

    And you have to remember that a lot of these new members in Labour areas will have MP's who

    Where the new members can be useful at this stage is on social media. Yes, I know it's not as effective as the hard grind of pounding the streets, but times HAVE changed and social media has more of an effect in politics than it did 25 years ago. Use of social media is never gonna be a replacement for knocking on doors, but it would be wrong to totally ignore it's potential. indeed, I would say that a lot of the increase in membership is down to use of social media by JC's supporters. I have noticed it over the last 18 months on Facebook. Friends who had previously shown no real interest in politics and had never made political postings were posting in support of JC and getting involved in discussion with other friends and encouraging them to join the Labour Party. I know of at least 3 or 4 people in my own circle who did actually join up in this way.

    Long term, depending upon the outcome of the current civil war, I think Labour will benefit from some of the new intake and they will take to the streets, knocking on doors and delivering leaflets.
    Labour have a case to make. Median wages haven't improved for years; wealth and opportunities are narrowly concentrated; too few houses are being built.

    But that's all undermined by the fact that Corbyn is a unilateralist, has dubious friends, thinks (in common with most of his party) that the only problem with immigration is that there's not enough of it, while his opponents are fervently europhile, and much of the party advocates a strident and voter-repellent form of identity politics.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Nate Silver puts Pennsylvania into the Clinton "Firewall" placing her at 269 and requiring only one more swing state from New Hampshire, Ohio, North Carolina, Florida, Iowa or Nevada to cross the line :

    http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/election-update-polls-show-pennsylvania-back-in-clintons-firewall/
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,042
    Sandpit said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Sean_F said:

    malcolmg said:

    Sean_F said:

    malcolmg said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    As Euan McColm points out

    corbynistas banging on about the number of people at rallies! more than 600,000 people bought the first b*witched album.

    McColm is a balloon of the highest order, do a real comparison. Smith can hardly fill a phonebox, some competition if that is the best they can muster. The skulking cowardly rebels are nowhere to be seen. Corbyn is a Titan compared to those spineless sewer rats.
    The fact Corbyn is a Titan, compared to Smith, is indeed a problem for Labour.
    Where are all these great rebels hiding , only one seen so far is Watson and he makes a complete tit of himself with his "Trots under the bed" stupidity.
    Corbyn must be laughing his socks off.
    There's a big shortage of talent in the Labour Party.
    The piece I'm writing for this weekend puts all the blame on Labour's current problems on Gordon Brown.

    He kept on crushing anyone who was a threat to him between 1997-2007, thus draining Labour's talent pool.

    For example just think Alan Milburn is just 58, which makes younger than Theresa May, there's several others, James Purnell...
    Purnell was the one who had the balls to actually resign from Brown's cabinet, after several others had agreed to but didn't follow through. Agree with Brown being the root of the problem, so many capable politicians were crushed by him, leaving a generational gap in the party.

    I still can't believe that in Dave Cameron, we have a 49 year old former prime minister.
    Must surely be the youngest former PM since Pitt in 1801 (who was 41 on leaving office). Liverpool, Blair, Major all became PM in their 40s as well, but had clocked 50 by the time they left office.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,034
    murali_s said:

    ThreeQuidder said:

    murali_s said:

    ThreeQuidder said:

    MarkHopkins said:

    Moses_ said:

    For those who use Eurostar..... 12th Aug to 15th Aug

    "Eurostar rail workers are to take seven days of strike action this month in a dispute over their work-life balance, the RMT union says.
    Staff will walk out from 00:01 BST on 12 August until 23.59 BST on 15 August, and for three days over the Bank Holiday weekend from 27 August"

    BBC News


    I know this is controversial, but I really do think it is time to ban strike action for anyone who works on critical infrastructure.

    There is no way a few should be allowed to cause harm to so many, just for their own internal dispute.

    Instead, binding arbitration should be used.

    And especially since the many can't do anything about whatever has caused the dispute.
    The right to strike is a fundamental right. I know that may not be popular with the right fruitcakes that live on this blog. I work for a company where we are in the process of changing attendance patterns and negotiations with the union have been challenging. I am very sympathetic to their concerns. We need to layer on the fact that the fat cats and the rich have never had it better.
    But the people who suffer are the ordinary working mugs who have to travel. The current nonsense on Southern is a case in point, although I can't actually believe that is caused by the union wanting guards and not drivers to close train doors: that surely has to be misreporting.
    And of course the piss poor management of Southern has nothing to do with the legitatimate industrial action.
    That is what the arbitration is there to sort out.

    It's got to the point where the RMT are effectively blackmailing London constantly, with any attempts to modernise the service being met with a wall of anger, and threats to being the city to a standstill over the most trivial of details.

    From a purely party political point of view, if the Conservatives want to increase their vote share in London they could do a lot worse than banning rail strikes.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 128,420
    jayfdee said:

    HYUFD said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    I see Death has reminded us he is no respecter of wealth, power or privilege - the Duke of Westminster has shuffled off at 64:

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-37029915

    We were discussing that last night, the £8 billion estate passes to his 25 year old son George
    I met the Duke on several occasions, and had some correspondence with him about erecting a memorial on his land. I always found him to be a very decent man.
    He owns a vast amount of land around here, and allows access to it, I hope his Heir continues to act as decently.
    Not everyone shares my view of him.
    Hopefully those traits run in the family, he clearly enjoyed life but it seems was generally a decent man
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,225
    edited August 2016
    MaxPB said:

    ThreeQuidder said:

    murali_s said:

    ThreeQuidder said:

    murali_s said:

    ThreeQuidder said:

    MarkHopkins said:

    Moses_ said:

    For those who use Eurostar..... 12th Aug to 15th Aug

    "Eurostar rail workers are to take seven days of strike action this month in a dispute over their work-life balance, the RMT union says.
    Staff will walk out from 00:01 BST on 12 August until 23.59 BST on 15 August, and for three days over the Bank Holiday weekend from 27 August"

    BBC News


    I know this is controversial, but I really do think it is time to ban strike action for anyone who works on critical infrastructure.

    There is no way a few should be allowed to cause harm to so many, just for their own internal dispute.

    Instead, binding arbitration should be used.

    And especially since the many can't do anything about whatever has caused the dispute.
    The right to strike is a fundamental right. I know that may not be popular with the right fruitcakes that live on this blog. I work for a company where we are in the process of changing attendance patterns and negotiations with the union have been challenging. I am very sympathetic to their concerns. We need to layer on the fact that the fat cats and the rich have never had it better.
    But the people who suffer are the ordinary working mugs who have to travel. The current nonsense on Southern is a case in point, although I can't actually believe that is caused by the union wanting guards and not drivers to close train doors: that surely has to be misreporting.
    And of course the piss poor management of Southern has nothing to do with the legitatimate industrial action.
    If the dispute is as reported, it isn't legitimate.

    The management, may I remind you, are not the ones causing misery to hundreds of thousands by being on strike.
    Don't forget that before this official strike was called the union was actively coordinating sick days among drivers and staff to ensure maximum disruption to the time table. Time to break the union.
    I only found out the reason for the southern rail strike the other day....it is over who opens and closes the doors. The fact anybody has to do that as part of their job in the 21st century is incredible. The rail unions really are dinosaurs.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    MaxPB said:

    ThreeQuidder said:

    murali_s said:

    ThreeQuidder said:

    murali_s said:

    ThreeQuidder said:

    MarkHopkins said:

    Moses_ said:

    For those who use Eurostar..... 12th Aug to 15th Aug

    "Eurostar rail workers are to take seven days of strike action this month in a dispute over their work-life balance, the RMT union says.
    Staff will walk out from 00:01 BST on 12 August until 23.59 BST on 15 August, and for three days over the Bank Holiday weekend from 27 August"

    BBC News


    I know this is controversial, but I really do think it is time to ban strike action for anyone who works on critical infrastructure.

    There is no way a few should be allowed to cause harm to so many, just for their own internal dispute.

    Instead, binding arbitration should be used.

    And especially since the many can't do anything about whatever has caused the dispute.
    The right to strike is a fundamental right. I know that may not be popular with the right fruitcakes that live on this blog. I work for a company where we are in the process of changing attendance patterns and negotiations with the union have been challenging. I am very sympathetic to their concerns. We need to layer on the fact that the fat cats and the rich have never had it better.
    But the people who suffer are the ordinary working mugs who have to travel. The current nonsense on Southern is a case in point, although I can't actually believe that is caused by the union wanting guards and not drivers to close train doors: that surely has to be misreporting.
    And of course the piss poor management of Southern has nothing to do with the legitatimate industrial action.
    If the dispute is as reported, it isn't legitimate.

    The management, may I remind you, are not the ones causing misery to hundreds of thousands by being on strike.
    Don't forget that before this official strike was called the union was actively coordinating sick days among drivers and staff to ensure maximum disruption to the time table. Time to break the union.
    I only found out the reason for the southern rail strike....it is over who opens and closes the doors. The fact anybody has to do that as part of their job in the 21st century is incredible. The rail unions really are dinosaurs.
    RMT are doing their job - but it's incredibly short term. They are accelerating the automation of the train system by being so militant/stupid.

  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Jonathan said:

    Sandpit said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    Surprising stats, and another which caught my eye is that the SNP, which confines itself to 8% of the British population, has nearly as many members as the Conservatives.

    You should join the Conservatives then, the more the merrier ;)
    Will look good with a blue rinse.
    But your chances of being lectured by a self-righteous vegan will fall to near zero.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 128,420
    JackW said:

    Nate Silver puts Pennsylvania into the Clinton "Firewall" placing her at 269 and requiring only one more swing state from New Hampshire, Ohio, North Carolina, Florida, Iowa or Nevada to cross the line :

    http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/election-update-polls-show-pennsylvania-back-in-clintons-firewall/

    A firewall in August may not necessarily still be there in November, especially after the debates but for now it does look good for Hillary
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,225
    edited August 2016
    Re TGHOF

    Well exactly. We have now self driving cars for f##k sake & driver assistance is basically as standard now in most good cars & they are quibbling over who gets to press the big green button to open the doors.
This discussion has been closed.