I think a few people on here misunderstand the purpose of a trade union. It is to secure the best deal available for the people it represents, That's why Bob Crow was re-elected on a regular basis - he was effective.
Of the options available, strike action is usually the most effective, as long as you have the full support of the members. They remain powerful in the public sector because there's no risk of the company going bankrupt.
The BMA exist to do the same for doctors, and all the 'professions' have similar organisations. Who was it who called them "a conspiracy against the laity"?
To expect other people to accept poorer conditions for the 'public good' is asking a lot. When that question is asked, the response will be to point to the 'fat cats'.
It may be a cynical view, and many unions do take a more holistic view, but it's a risk they run if they have an embittered workforce.
I only found out the reason for the southern rail strike the other day....it is over who opens and closes the doors. The fact anybody has to do that as part of their job in the 21st century is incredible. The rail unions really are dinosaurs.
That's a crazy way to run a union, picking a fight over something so trivial. Hopefully the railway company just imposes the new terms and tells the RMT to do one. If the staff want to leave their cushy jobs then they are welcome to do so, I'm sure Southern can find people willing to do the job without door opening/closing responsibilities.
A firewall in August may not necessarily still be there in November, especially after the debates but for now it does look good for Hillary
Quite correct.
Trump may tank in the debates and the Clinton firewall would be substantially higher .... Is that what you meant? ....
Well of course that could happen too but Trump does need a good performance in the debates and Hillary to have a relatively poor one to have a real chance in November
A firewall in August may not necessarily still be there in November, especially after the debates but for now it does look good for Hillary
Quite correct.
Trump may tank in the debates and the Clinton firewall would be substantially higher .... Is that what you meant? ....
Well of course that could happen too but Trump does need a good performance in the debates and Hillary to have a relatively poor one to have a real chance in November
Why are we asumming Trump will agree to do Three debates? I think he'll do one. He's not a "debater" kind of guy, and will get so much publicity for refusing to do a debate it won't have mattered if he does 3 or not.
I think a few people on here misunderstand the purpose of a trade union. It is to secure the best deal available for the people it represents, That's why Bob Crow was re-elected on a regular basis - he was effective.
Of the options available, strike action is usually the most effective, as long as you have the full support of the members. They remain powerful in the public sector because there's no risk of the company going bankrupt.
The BMA exist to do the same for doctors, and all the 'professions' have similar organisations. Who was it who called them "a conspiracy against the laity"?
To expect other people to accept poorer conditions for the 'public good' is asking a lot. When that question is asked, the response will be to point to the 'fat cats'.
It may be a cynical view, and many unions do take a more holistic view, but it's a risk they run if the have an embittered workforce.
Edit: Strike action not trike action!
Surely the problem with striking over such trivial matters is just going to hasten the move to automation and government anti-union laws? The RMT are dooming their members' long term job prospects and at the same time going to make it tougher for legitimate issues to get a fair hearing once anti-union laws are brought in. It seems like a very short term victory if they do win, something I have my doubts about. Previously with Southern it looked like the company was at fault for not running a proper service and recruiting enough staff, now with the strike becoming legitimate the focus is on the RMT and people are becoming slightly more sympathetic to Southern than they were a few days ago before the strike was announced. Public sentiment has swung in favour of the railway company, something that is pretty rare. That's how badly the RMT have played this, and until now the underhanded coordinated sick days were paying off as it made Southern look bad.
For those who use Eurostar..... 12th Aug to 15th Aug
"Eurostar rail workers are to take seven days of strike action this month in a dispute over their work-life balance, the RMT union says. Staff will walk out from 00:01 BST on 12 August until 23.59 BST on 15 August, and for three days over the Bank Holiday weekend from 27 August"
BBC News
I know this is controversial, but I really do think it is time to ban strike action for anyone who works on critical infrastructure.
There is no way a few should be allowed to cause harm to so many, just for their own internal dispute.
Instead, binding arbitration should be used.
How's that going to work then? Mass arrests? The early morning knock on the door down at Railway Terrace?
Trump’s Ambiguous Wink Wink to ‘Second Amendment People’
And that, ladies and gentlemen, is how Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin got assassinated.
His right-wing opponents just kept delegitimizing him as a “traitor” and “a Nazi” for wanting to make peace with the Palestinians and give back part of the Land of Israel. Of course, all is fair in politics, right? And they had God on their side, right? They weren’t actually telling anyone to assassinate Rabin. That would be horrible.
But there are always people down the line who don’t hear the caveats. They just hear the big message: The man is illegitimate, the man is a threat to the nation, the man is the equivalent of a Nazi war criminal. Well, you know what we do with people like that, don’t you? We kill them.
And that’s what the Jewish extremist Yigal Amir did to Rabin. Why not? He thought he had permission from a whole segment of Israel’s political class.
Party membership is often inversely correlated to electoral success e.g. Tory membership rose to its highest point for years under William Hague before he was trounced in 2001 and Labour membership was at an all time low in 2005 when the party was reelected. Now Tory membership is low while Labour membership is at an all time high under Corbyn yet it is the Tories who have a big poll lead. The reason is most people who join political parties are more ideological than the average voter and will join a political party when it provides more of a platform for that ideology. The average swing voter though is not ideological and will vote on the practical basis of which party will be better for themselves and their family
When Conservative membership was huge, it was basically a big social club. I can remember plenty of enjoyable events in my youth. But that social side has now disappeared.
Indeed with online dating you no longer need Young Conservative dances to meet a potential partner. The YCs used to be largely a dating agency for the young middle-classes
Nate Silver puts Pennsylvania into the Clinton "Firewall" placing her at 269 and requiring only one more swing state from New Hampshire, Ohio, North Carolina, Florida, Iowa or Nevada to cross the line :
A firewall in August may not necessarily still be there in November, especially after the debates but for now it does look good for Hillary
I think the idea of the firewall is that it is sufficiently strong to withstand some kind of uptick of a few points by Trump after debates. A larger uptick of course means it has been swamped.
For those who use Eurostar..... 12th Aug to 15th Aug
"Eurostar rail workers are to take seven days of strike action this month in a dispute over their work-life balance, the RMT union says. Staff will walk out from 00:01 BST on 12 August until 23.59 BST on 15 August, and for three days over the Bank Holiday weekend from 27 August"
BBC News
I know this is controversial, but I really do think it is time to ban strike action for anyone who works on critical infrastructure.
There is no way a few should be allowed to cause harm to so many, just for their own internal dispute.
Instead, binding arbitration should be used.
How's that going to work then? Mass arrests? The early morning knock on the door down at Railway Terrace?
The same as any other union/workplace legislation, of which there is a lot.
I only found out the reason for the southern rail strike the other day....it is over who opens and closes the doors. The fact anybody has to do that as part of their job in the 21st century is incredible. The rail unions really are dinosaurs.
That's a crazy way to run a union, picking a fight over something so trivial. Hopefully the railway company just imposes the new terms and tells the RMT to do one. If the staff want to leave their cushy jobs then they are welcome to do so, I'm sure Southern can find people willing to do the job without door opening/closing responsibilities.
To be fair to the Union, it isn't trivial. It's not so much about who pushes a button to close the doors as it is about who gives the go-ahead for the train to depart. Platform-train interface incidents account for quite a large chunk of incidents on our railways. While we may think people who get clothes or rucksacks trapped in train doors are pretty stupid, someone on the train does have to take responsibility for allowing the train to depart.
Labour's new members have thus far been focused on electoral battles within Labour, with considerable success. Time will tell what impact they will make outside. I suspect it will make a difference.
Agreed and despite what the media and the PLP would have you believe, the vast majority of the new members are not Trots or people from Momentum, if they were, they would certainly be more likely to be more active on the ground.
Most of the new membership are people who have joined a political Party for the first time in their lives, inspired to do so by Corbyn. Previously a lot of these took little interest in politics. They had become disconnected from politics and felt that there was very little difference between the two major Parties and quite a few of them probably didn't even bother to vote at the last election because they felt there was little difference between the two major Parties.
Many are, or at least were, politically naive. They imagined that once Corbyn was elected, the PLP would unite and be more interested in taking the fight to the Tories than fighting their own democratically elected leader. The last year has been a bit of an eye-opener for them.
And you have to remember that a lot of these new members in Labour areas will have MP's who are opposed to Corbyn and therefore there is little motivation to do the hard work work of knocking on doors in support of an MP who is trying to undermine JC and (in their eyes) split the Party that they joined.
Where the new members can be useful at this stage is on social media. Yes, I know it's not as effective as the hard grind of pounding the streets, but times HAVE changed and social media has more of an effect in politics than it did 25 years ago. Use of social media is never gonna be a replacement for knocking on doors, but it would be wrong to totally ignore it's potential. indeed, I would say that a lot of the increase in membership is down to use of social media by JC's supporters. I have noticed it over the last 18 months on Facebook. Friends who had previously shown no real interest in politics and had never made political postings were posting in support of JC and getting involved in discussion with other friends and encouraging them to join the Labour Party. I know of at least 3 or 4 people in my own circle who did actually join up in this way.
Long term, depending upon the outcome of the current civil war, I think Labour will benefit from some of the new intake and they will take to the streets, knocking on doors and delivering leaflets.
It's a compelling picture. But...
You are saying that these disinterested people who probably didn't even vote before are now alive to the minutiae and nuances of the PLP, the Deputy Leader, and so forth, and are angry?
Onto more mundane things, someone pointed out to me yesterday that the new £60bn QE programme would likely fund the government deficit for this year and reduce our interest bill by £1.5bn which may be the real reason behind it. The £60bn figure seemed odd too me as well, but it makes sense in this context. Most expected £50bn or £75bn as that is how QE has always been done, in tranches of £25bn. With the government borrowing target now looking to come in at about £60bn it looks like Carney has taken the pressure off the Treasury to continue the consolidation programme.
For those who use Eurostar..... 12th Aug to 15th Aug
"Eurostar rail workers are to take seven days of strike action this month in a dispute over their work-life balance, the RMT union says. Staff will walk out from 00:01 BST on 12 August until 23.59 BST on 15 August, and for three days over the Bank Holiday weekend from 27 August"
BBC News
I know this is controversial, but I really do think it is time to ban strike action for anyone who works on critical infrastructure.
There is no way a few should be allowed to cause harm to so many, just for their own internal dispute.
Instead, binding arbitration should be used.
How's that going to work then? Mass arrests? The early morning knock on the door down at Railway Terrace?
The same as any other union/workplace legislation, of which there is a lot.
With jail being the ultimate sanction presumably. That'll get the trains running on time.
You're probably correct, but the union is in an awkward position. A barrister will defend their client and attempt to get the best "deal" despite them sometimes being selfish. They have a right to that, and it is expected.
Sometimes the workforce is happy with short-term fixes.
I only found out the reason for the southern rail strike the other day....it is over who opens and closes the doors. The fact anybody has to do that as part of their job in the 21st century is incredible. The rail unions really are dinosaurs.
That's a crazy way to run a union, picking a fight over something so trivial. Hopefully the railway company just imposes the new terms and tells the RMT to do one. If the staff want to leave their cushy jobs then they are welcome to do so, I'm sure Southern can find people willing to do the job without door opening/closing responsibilities.
To be fair to the Union, it isn't trivial. It's not so much about who pushes a button to close the doors as it is about who gives the go-ahead for the train to depart. Platform-train interface incidents account for quite a large chunk of incidents on our railways. While we may think people who get clothes or rucksacks trapped in train doors are pretty stupid, someone on the train does have to take responsibility for allowing the train to depart.
I see it on the tube more than once a day, the driver resolves is and the trains usually have an automatic system linked to a pressure sensor which will open up the doors.
I know this is controversial, but I really do think it is time to ban strike action for anyone who works on critical infrastructure.
There is no way a few should be allowed to cause harm to so many, just for their own internal dispute.
Instead, binding arbitration should be used.
And especially since the many can't do anything about whatever has caused the dispute.
The right to strike is a fundamental right. I know that may not be popular with the right fruitcakes that live on this blog. I work for a company where we are in the process of changing attendance patterns and negotiations with the union have been challenging. I am very sympathetic to their concerns. We need to layer on the fact that the fat cats and the rich have never had it better.
But the people who suffer are the ordinary working mugs who have to travel. The current nonsense on Southern is a case in point, although I can't actually believe that is caused by the union wanting guards and not drivers to close train doors: that surely has to be misreporting.
And of course the piss poor management of Southern has nothing to do with the legitatimate industrial action.
If the dispute is as reported, it isn't legitimate.
The management, may I remind you, are not the ones causing misery to hundreds of thousands by being on strike.
Don't forget that before this official strike was called the union was actively coordinating sick days among drivers and staff to ensure maximum disruption to the time table. Time to break the union.
I only found out the reason for the southern rail strike....it is over who opens and closes the doors. The fact anybody has to do that as part of their job in the 21st century is incredible. The rail unions really are dinosaurs.
RMT are doing their job - but it's incredibly short term. They are accelerating the automation of the train system by being so militant/stupid.
They might win the battle but they will lose the war. I could understand strikes for pay when inflation was at 10%, I can understand strikes over genuine safety concerns or reorganisations, but the RMT seem to always have a trivial reason for the strikes.
The new signalling upgrades on the Underground support automated trains, it's only a matter of time untill they get rid of the drivers completely. They've cried wolf too often.
For those who use Eurostar..... 12th Aug to 15th Aug
"Eurostar rail workers are to take seven days of strike action this month in a dispute over their work-life balance, the RMT union says. Staff will walk out from 00:01 BST on 12 August until 23.59 BST on 15 August, and for three days over the Bank Holiday weekend from 27 August"
BBC News
I know this is controversial, but I really do think it is time to ban strike action for anyone who works on critical infrastructure.
There is no way a few should be allowed to cause harm to so many, just for their own internal dispute.
Instead, binding arbitration should be used.
How's that going to work then? Mass arrests? The early morning knock on the door down at Railway Terrace?
The same as any other union/workplace legislation, of which there is a lot.
With jail being the ultimate sanction presumably. That'll get the trains running on time.
I'd imagine wildcat strikes would lead to being sacked rather than prison, but don't let reality get in the way of your delusions.
For those who use Eurostar..... 12th Aug to 15th Aug
"Eurostar rail workers are to take seven days of strike action this month in a dispute over their work-life balance, the RMT union says. Staff will walk out from 00:01 BST on 12 August until 23.59 BST on 15 August, and for three days over the Bank Holiday weekend from 27 August"
BBC News
I know this is controversial, but I really do think it is time to ban strike action for anyone who works on critical infrastructure.
There is no way a few should be allowed to cause harm to so many, just for their own internal dispute.
Instead, binding arbitration should be used.
How's that going to work then? Mass arrests? The early morning knock on the door down at Railway Terrace?
The same as any other union/workplace legislation, of which there is a lot.
With jail being the ultimate sanction presumably. That'll get the trains running on time.
Jail's not needed, the solution Reagan found to deal with the air traffic controllers is just as effective and less costly to implement.
Well of course that could happen too but Trump does need a good performance in the debates and Hillary to have a relatively poor one to have a real chance in November
Trump requires a commanding Presidential performance full of gravitas and calm analysis and without a hint of hyperbole, thin skinned rancour or off the cuff insults, malice and demented meanderings.
You are saying that these disinterested people who probably didn't even vote before are now alive to the minutiae and nuances of the PLP, the Deputy Leader, and so forth, and are angry?
Seems a big jump to me.
I didn't say that did I?
They don't need to be aware of minutae and nuances to know that that PLP are out to remove Corbyn.. and that creates obvious anger.
I only found out the reason for the southern rail strike the other day....it is over who opens and closes the doors. The fact anybody has to do that as part of their job in the 21st century is incredible. The rail unions really are dinosaurs.
That's a crazy way to run a union, picking a fight over something so trivial. Hopefully the railway company just imposes the new terms and tells the RMT to do one. If the staff want to leave their cushy jobs then they are welcome to do so, I'm sure Southern can find people willing to do the job without door opening/closing responsibilities.
To be fair to the Union, it isn't trivial. It's not so much about who pushes a button to close the doors as it is about who gives the go-ahead for the train to depart. Platform-train interface incidents account for quite a large chunk of incidents on our railways. While we may think people who get clothes or rucksacks trapped in train doors are pretty stupid, someone on the train does have to take responsibility for allowing the train to depart.
I see it on the tube more than once a day, the driver resolves is and the trains usually have an automatic system linked to a pressure sensor which will open up the doors.
Those detection systems are fiendishly difficult to get right. I think a fleet of underground trains had to be refitted because the systems were giving too many false positives.
Labour's new members have thus far been focused on electoral battles within Labour, with considerable success. Time will tell what impact they will make outside. I suspect it will make a difference.
Agreed and despite what the media and the PLP would have you believe, the vast majority of the new members are not Trots or people from Momentum, if they were, they would certainly be more likely to be more active on the ground.
Most of the new membership are people who have joined a political Party for the first time in their lives, inspired to do so by Corbyn. Previously a lot of these took little interest in politics. They had become disconnected from politics and felt that there was very little difference between the two major Parties and quite a few of them probably didn't even bother to vote at the last election because they felt there was little difference between the two major Parties.
Many are, or at least were, politically naive. They imagined that once Corbyn was elected, the PLP would unite and be more interested in taking the fight to the Tories than fighting their own democratically elected leader. The last year has been a bit of an eye-opener for them.
snip
Long term, depending upon the outcome of the current civil war, I think Labour will benefit from some of the new intake and they will take to the streets, knocking on doors and delivering leaflets.
It's a compelling picture. But...
You are saying that these disinterested people who probably didn't even vote before are now alive to the minutiae and nuances of the PLP, the Deputy Leader, and so forth, and are angry?
Seems a big jump to me.
"social media has more of an effect in politics than it did 25 years ago"
You are telling me, the very first website only appeared in Dec 1990 :-)
I see it on the tube more than once a day, the driver resolves is and the trains usually have an automatic system linked to a pressure sensor which will open up the doors.
I'm a regular train and tube traveller and the thought of a completely crewless train fills me with dread. South West Trains operate all their services with both a guard and a driver (along with dispatch staff at stations) and it all works very well. I can't see why Southern can't or won't operate the same way.
The on-board Guard has a number of functions - revenue collection of course but he or she can sell tickets, provide information (you'd be surprised how often, even in the online age, people ask railway staff for information on train times rather than try to find it themselves). He's also there as an authority figure with immediate contact to and back up from the British Transport Police if there is antisocial behaviour and he is the only one in direct contact with the driver and can convey information on delays and the like.
On the Tube, the driver does a lot of the information sharing and revenue collection has been supplemented by the "gate" system (doesn't prevent fare evasion) but the driver is the point of contact between train control and the passengers.
I sense the traditional old Conservative anti-Union vindictiveness at work here - the mantra is Unions are bad and must be destroyed it seems. As always, there's plenty of blame to throw around and GoVia don't exactly smell of roses either. Handing the whole operation over to TfL might not be the worst short term option.
For those who use Eurostar..... 12th Aug to 15th Aug
"Eurostar rail workers are to take seven days of strike action this month in a dispute over their work-life balance, the RMT union says. Staff will walk out from 00:01 BST on 12 August until 23.59 BST on 15 August, and for three days over the Bank Holiday weekend from 27 August"
BBC News
I know this is controversial, but I really do think it is time to ban strike action for anyone who works on critical infrastructure.
There is no way a few should be allowed to cause harm to so many, just for their own internal dispute.
Instead, binding arbitration should be used.
How's that going to work then? Mass arrests? The early morning knock on the door down at Railway Terrace?
Onto more mundane things, someone pointed out to me yesterday that the new £60bn QE programme would likely fund the government deficit for this year and reduce our interest bill by £1.5bn which may be the real reason behind it. The £60bn figure seemed odd too me as well, but it makes sense in this context. Most expected £50bn or £75bn as that is how QE has always been done, in tranches of £25bn. With the government borrowing target now looking to come in at about £60bn it looks like Carney has taken the pressure off the Treasury to continue the consolidation programme.
I am not and never have been a fan of QE which I call financial methadone (not original). I can't help but feel the billions that have been pumped into banks and the financial markets since 2008 could a) have been better spent paying down the debt and b) are creating new asset bubbles which will cause us bigger problems in the future.
corbynistas banging on about the number of people at rallies! more than 600,000 people bought the first b*witched album.
McColm is a balloon of the highest order, do a real comparison. Smith can hardly fill a phonebox, some competition if that is the best they can muster. The skulking cowardly rebels are nowhere to be seen. Corbyn is a Titan compared to those spineless sewer rats.
The fact Corbyn is a Titan, compared to Smith, is indeed a problem for Labour.
Where are all these great rebels hiding , only one seen so far is Watson and he makes a complete tit of himself with his "Trots under the bed" stupidity. Corbyn must be laughing his socks off.
There's a big shortage of talent in the Labour Party.
The piece I'm writing for this weekend puts all the blame on Labour's current problems on Gordon Brown.
He kept on crushing anyone who was a threat to him between 1997-2007, thus draining Labour's talent pool.
For example just think Alan Milburn is just 58, which makes younger than Theresa May, there's several others, James Purnell...
TBH, Mr E I think it goes deeper than that. Whence came the traditional Titans of Labour? The trade unions; from bright young people who, having been denied an education, used their talents to support their work colleagues. Fewer of those these days.
Just finished Alan Johnson’s first book; would he have been a postman, and therefore a activist in the relevant Union if he’d been able to stay on at the grammar school he’d passed the 11+ for and, as he hoped once, become a writer?
For those who use Eurostar..... 12th Aug to 15th Aug
"Eurostar rail workers are to take seven days of strike action this month in a dispute over their work-life balance, the RMT union says. Staff will walk out from 00:01 BST on 12 August until 23.59 BST on 15 August, and for three days over the Bank Holiday weekend from 27 August"
BBC News
I know this is controversial, but I really do think it is time to ban strike action for anyone who works on critical infrastructure.
There is no way a few should be allowed to cause harm to so many, just for their own internal dispute.
Instead, binding arbitration should be used.
So what do you do when the employer tells the arbitrator that they will wind up if they don't get their own way? Nationalise the outfit? Turn it into a workers' co-op?
You are saying that these disinterested people who probably didn't even vote before are now alive to the minutiae and nuances of the PLP, the Deputy Leader, and so forth, and are angry?
Seems a big jump to me.
I didn't say that did I?
They don't need to be aware of minutae and nuances to know that that PLP are out to remove Corbyn.. and that creates obvious anger.
And if they have got that far, surely it will seem for all the world like the same old politics. Do you think such previous DNV-ers will now throw down their ploughshares and pick up their swords for the messy fight ahead?
Looked at the link. What on earth does the fact that he was a Morris Dancer have to do with his sexual proclivities. Indeed, the two words only appear once oin the whole piece. Has the Heil decided to "take on" this hamrless and rather quaint activity?
A firewall in August may not necessarily still be there in November, especially after the debates but for now it does look good for Hillary
Quite correct.
Trump may tank in the debates and the Clinton firewall would be substantially higher .... Is that what you meant? ....
Well of course that could happen too but Trump does need a good performance in the debates and Hillary to have a relatively poor one to have a real chance in November
Why are we asumming Trump will agree to do Three debates? I think he'll do one. He's not a "debater" kind of guy, and will get so much publicity for refusing to do a debate it won't have mattered if he does 3 or not.
Of course he will do the debates he did most of them in the primaries and they are his best chance remaining
Well of course that could happen too but Trump does need a good performance in the debates and Hillary to have a relatively poor one to have a real chance in November
Trump requires a commanding Presidential performance full of gravitas and calm analysis and without a hint of hyperbole, thin skinned rancour or off the cuff insults, malice and demented meanderings.
What could possibly go wrong ....
He also needs to have a performance free of any hint of misogyny. Any slight against Hilary will be painted as "oh look, it's just Trump hating women again". Which will be a bit rich, the thin skin of Hilary Clinton who is only going for the biggest job interview in the world. But Trump is in a difficult spot on how to play the debates. It may not be the level playing field his supporters are hoping to get him back in the game.
King Cole, it takes more than puny beer to make a morris dancer lose his grace. Verily, we have the sure-footedness of mountain goats.
Sides dance in our small town quite often. Mountain goats is not what comes to mind when I watch them. Unless Hannibal’s cavalry mounts indulged in some extremely bizarre activities en route and the resulting descendants.......
Nate Silver puts Pennsylvania into the Clinton "Firewall" placing her at 269 and requiring only one more swing state from New Hampshire, Ohio, North Carolina, Florida, Iowa or Nevada to cross the line :
A firewall in August may not necessarily still be there in November, especially after the debates but for now it does look good for Hillary
I think the idea of the firewall is that it is sufficiently strong to withstand some kind of uptick of a few points by Trump after debates. A larger uptick of course means it has been swamped.
On topic, this may surprise some on here but you don't have to be "active" to be in a political party. A lot of people join for the social aspect - the political debates and discussions over policy - rather than pounding the streets delivering leaflets or canvassing.
It's also about where your activists are and what they are prepared to do - a Conservative member who will deliver 50 leaflets in Beaconsfield or Maidenhead will be welcomed but, let's face it, they aren't adding that much apart from freeing up a more mobile activist to go elsewhere. Likewise, a Labour activist in Newham isn't really going to add much if they won't go outside their immediate area. Labour won 60 out of 60 Council seats in 2014 - you can't really do much more.
Sometimes it's just having the right people in the right place at the right time. As an LD, I've seen Council seats by a team of literally three or four keen activists who did everything while their opponents sat complacently around doing nothing. Nowadays, parties take nothing for granted and wisely so.
I'm a regular train and tube traveller and the thought of a completely crewless train fills me with dread. South West Trains operate all their services with both a guard and a driver (along with dispatch staff at stations) and it all works very well. I can't see why Southern can't or won't operate the same way.
...snip...
I sense the traditional old Conservative anti-Union vindictiveness at work here - the mantra is Unions are bad and must be destroyed it seems. As always, there's plenty of blame to throw around and GoVia don't exactly smell of roses either. Handing the whole operation over to TfL might not be the worst short term option.
Well my parents live on the Great Northern route and there are barriers at all of the stations along that line now waiting to be activated. I imagine that GTR are installing them at all of their stations and they are already present at the major terminals. It is something that will reduce fare evasion substantially. Again, if the train guard wasn't there then people would look online, almost everyone has a smartphone and bringing up the national rail website isn't exactly difficult.
The issue is that the guard serves no purpose in the modern era, trains are built with door cameras and door sensors. The driver actually has a better overview of the train than the guard in many scenarios, especially the longer intercity services where physically standing outside and looking at the train isn't enough. As for delays the driver announces delays on the Tube, I don't see why it couldn't be that way on Southern. The instances where a BTP officer needs to be contacted are so very small that paying someone £40k per year to do it seems like a waste, especially when there are contact points at every station which can be used to do the same.
It's not vindictiveness, as I said there may be legitimate issues in the future for workers, but at this rate the RMT are doing everything they can to force the government's hand and bring in anti-union law and to bring in binding arbitration for public transport workers. All for very short term gains. Handing the franchise to TfL is the last thing the government should do, the RMT will then begin to agitate in all other commuter franchises over minor issues to force nationalisation. Terrible idea.
Well of course that could happen too but Trump does need a good performance in the debates and Hillary to have a relatively poor one to have a real chance in November
Trump requires a commanding Presidential performance full of gravitas and calm analysis and without a hint of hyperbole, thin skinned rancour or off the cuff insults, malice and demented meanderings.
I'm a regular train and tube traveller and the thought of a completely crewless train fills me with dread. South West Trains operate all their services with both a guard and a driver (along with dispatch staff at stations) and it all works very well.
Initiatives to improve train service operations in ways that will generate long-term passenger benefits or operational improvements that will continue to accrue after the end of the Franchise Term. This could include the implementation of Driver Controlled Operation (DCO). Where DCO is proposed, the Department would require the franchisee to undertake appropriate consultation (with passengers and the workforce) including about supporting the continual development of the professional skills of on-train staff, in particular in relation to the on-board customer service passengers attach most value to.
For those who use Eurostar..... 12th Aug to 15th Aug
"Eurostar rail workers are to take seven days of strike action this month in a dispute over their work-life balance, the RMT union says. Staff will walk out from 00:01 BST on 12 August until 23.59 BST on 15 August, and for three days over the Bank Holiday weekend from 27 August"
BBC News
I know this is controversial, but I really do think it is time to ban strike action for anyone who works on critical infrastructure.
There is no way a few should be allowed to cause harm to so many, just for their own internal dispute.
Instead, binding arbitration should be used.
So what do you do when the employer tells the arbitrator that they will wind up if they don't get their own way? Nationalise the outfit? Turn it into a workers' co-op?
Appoint administrators with a duty to find a buyer if possible, as with any other administration. If the situation really is that dire, it'd make little difference; if it's just a ploy from the employer, he'd find himself (or herself) without a business - albeit with a cash return.
FWIW, while I agree with the principle but the devil is in the detail. *Which* NHS staff shouldn't be allowed to strike, for example? Doctors? Nurses? Administrators? Cleaning staff? IT technicians? There's a very grey area in what is 'essential', what is 'useful' and what is 'nice to have'. Unless very carefully worded, the legislation could end up as either meaningless or draconian.
We were discussing that last night, the £8 billion estate passes to his 25 year old son George
I met the Duke on several occasions, and had some correspondence with him about erecting a memorial on his land. I always found him to be a very decent man. He owns a vast amount of land around here, and allows access to it, I hope his Heir continues to act as decently. Not everyone shares my view of him.
I'm a Cesarian and he seems to have done a lot for the local area, culture and charities - doubt it will continue under the son and heir though. Might have it wrong but he appears to be more the wealthy playboy type.
He also needs to have a performance free of any hint of misogyny. Any slight against Hilary will be painted as "oh look, it's just Trump hating women again". Which will be a bit rich, the thin skin of Hilary Clinton who is only going for the biggest job interview in the world. But Trump is in a difficult spot on how to play the debates. It may not be the level playing field his supporters are hoping to get him back in the game.
Essentially Trump requires debate performances that entirely go against his nature ....
Is there a difference in accident rates/seriousness with guardless (or even driverless) trains ?
What does the evidence point to ?
No difference. The article that Mike linked had a quote from TfL that said the rate went down from 1 incident in 4m passengers to 1 incident in 7m passengers with the DCO.
It also shows the Unions aren't alone in pouring petrol onto a perfectly good fire.
I will re-state I would prefer there to be a member of railway staff on each train - the driverless DLR trains have staff on them. You can call them a Guard or a Train Manager or a Customer Hospitality Co-Ordinator - I really don't care - but I think there needs to be a member of the railway staff present and available.
I understand technology and let's use it where we can - let's re-train and re-skill staff, no problem there. What I don't understand is relentless Union-bashing. GoVia and RMT could settle this but it's become political.
Luke Akehurst @lukeakehurst 58m58 minutes ago NEC: left slate 55% of vote, mods 35%, Izzard & other inds 10%. Swing mods to left only 3% since 2014. New NEC 16 Corbyn 17 not Corbyn.
You are saying that these disinterested people who probably didn't even vote before are now alive to the minutiae and nuances of the PLP, the Deputy Leader, and so forth, and are angry?
Seems a big jump to me.
I didn't say that did I?
They don't need to be aware of minutae and nuances to know that that PLP are out to remove Corbyn.. and that creates obvious anger.
And if they have got that far, surely it will seem for all the world like the same old politics. Do you think such previous DNV-ers will now throw down their ploughshares and pick up their swords for the messy fight ahead?
I don't think it will seem like the same old politics where there is little to choose between the two main Parties. In fact they can see that JC is fighting to ensure that there IS a big difference between the two main Parties.
To that end, I think a lot will be prepared to fight, although for most their keyboard will be their weapon of choice, not a sword (or a brick, hopefully)
Initiatives to improve train service operations in ways that will generate long-term passenger benefits or operational improvements that will continue to accrue after the end of the Franchise Term. This could include the implementation of Driver Controlled Operation (DCO). Where DCO is proposed, the Department would require the franchisee to undertake appropriate consultation (with passengers and the workforce) including about supporting the continual development of the professional skills of on-train staff, in particular in relation to the on-board customer service passengers attach most value to.
I'm not opposed to DCO in principle. What I'm opposed to is removing all railways staff from services EXCEPT the driver. If you don't want to call them a Guard and have them opening and closing the doors that's fine, but I think the presence alone is useful and would be valued and in an emergency or delay, the on-train staff are the people passengers go to and rely on, not a website or a disembodied announcement.
It also shows the Unions aren't alone in pouring petrol onto a perfectly good fire.
I will re-state I would prefer there to be a member of railway staff on each train - the driverless DLR trains have staff on them. You can call them a Guard or a Train Manager or a Customer Hospitality Co-Ordinator - I really don't care - but I think there needs to be a member of the railway staff present and available.
I understand technology and let's use it where we can - let's re-train and re-skill staff, no problem there. What I don't understand is relentless Union-bashing. GoVia and RMT could settle this but it's become political.
When one of the busiest transport systems in the world is run with driver operated doors with very high levels of safety (after the unions telling us otherwise) and half of the commuter network is already using DCO, surely converting the other half is sensible.
The issue is that the RMT don't want to settle it, they want to try and force the franchise to be nationalised, that has always been their ultimate aim. In the end we will fully automate our railways and then everyone is out of work. Look at how McDonalds are reacting to the idea of a $15 minimum wage in the US.
Looked at the link. What on earth does the fact that he was a Morris Dancer have to do with his sexual proclivities. Indeed, the two words only appear once oin the whole piece. Has the Heil decided to "take on" this hamrless and rather quaint activity?
I see that he was also an engineer and a businessman. Are not these hghly suspicious activities in which to engage? At least as suspicious as being a morris dancer?
Or perhaps it was that the morris dancer costume was a bit more picturesque?
For those who use Eurostar..... 12th Aug to 15th Aug
"Eurostar rail workers are to take seven days of strike action this month in a dispute over their work-life balance, the RMT union says. Staff will walk out from 00:01 BST on 12 August until 23.59 BST on 15 August, and for three days over the Bank Holiday weekend from 27 August"
BBC News
I know this is controversial, but I really do think it is time to ban strike action for anyone who works on critical infrastructure.
There is no way a few should be allowed to cause harm to so many, just for their own internal dispute.
Instead, binding arbitration should be used.
How's that going to work then? Mass arrests? The early morning knock on the door down at Railway Terrace?
Strike action could be treated as gross misconduct.
Mr. Clipp, alas, being a morris dancer is like being an attractive young lady wearing very little. The press use any excuse to post such a picture. It is a burden we must bear.
Looked at the link. What on earth does the fact that he was a Morris Dancer have to do with his sexual proclivities. Indeed, the two words only appear once oin the whole piece. Has the Heil decided to "take on" this hamrless and rather quaint activity?
I see that he was also an engineer and a businessman. Are not these hghly suspicious activities in which to engage? At least as suspicious as being a morris dancer?
Or perhaps it was that the morris dancer costume was a bit more picturesque?
I once read that describing someone as a “company director” suggested a multitude of sins.
When one of the busiest transport systems in the world is run with driver operated doors with very high levels of safety (after the unions telling us otherwise) and half of the commuter network is already using DCO, surely converting the other half is sensible.
The issue is that the RMT don't want to settle it, they want to try and force the franchise to be nationalised, that has always been their ultimate aim. In the end we will fully automate our railways and then everyone is out of work. Look at how McDonalds are reacting to the idea of a $15 minimum wage in the US.
As I've already stated, I'm not opposed to DCO in principle. What I'm opposed to is no other member of railway staff on each service. Two or three minutes between London Underground stations is one thing - half an hour or more between railway stations is something else.
Having a medically-trained competent member of railway staff on a service is invaluable - call them whatever you like - but as a source of information, aid or simply reassurance it's a positive.
I can't see an issue with this - unfortunately, there seem to be Conservatives whose sole desire is to "break" the RMT - the Party's obsession with destroying organised labour continues regrettably.
We were discussing that last night, the £8 billion estate passes to his 25 year old son George
I met the Duke on several occasions, and had some correspondence with him about erecting a memorial on his land. I always found him to be a very decent man. He owns a vast amount of land around here, and allows access to it, I hope his Heir continues to act as decently. Not everyone shares my view of him.
I'm a Cesarian and he seems to have done a lot for the local area, culture and charities - doubt it will continue under the son and heir though. Might have it wrong but he appears to be more the wealthy playboy type.
Mr. Clipp, alas, being a morris dancer is like being an attractive young lady wearing very little. The press use any excuse to post such a picture. It is a burden we must bear.
As I posted upthread, Morris Sides dance regulkarly locally.
Your comparison fails. Nothing at like being an arractive young lady!
A firewall in August may not necessarily still be there in November, especially after the debates but for now it does look good for Hillary
Quite correct.
Trump may tank in the debates and the Clinton firewall would be substantially higher .... Is that what you meant? ....
Well of course that could happen too but Trump does need a good performance in the debates and Hillary to have a relatively poor one to have a real chance in November
Why are we asumming Trump will agree to do Three debates? I think he'll do one. He's not a "debater" kind of guy, and will get so much publicity for refusing to do a debate it won't have mattered if he does 3 or not.
Unless people have properly woken up to Trump by then and as a result the TV companies have the nerve to empty chair him....
Interesting article. Not just for the story but a link in it to Donoghue v Stephenson in 1932 which established the legal "duty of care"
Even more interesting is that the whole concept of a Duty of Care is derived from the words of Jesus Christ ("the second is this: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no commandment greater than these." (Mark 12.31) "As Lord Justice Atkin put it in the house of Lords judgement: "At present I content myself with pointing out that in English law there must be, and is, some general conception of relations giving rise to a duty of care, of which the particular cases found in the books are but instances. The liability for negligence, whether you style it such or treat it as in other systems as a species of "culpa," is no doubt based upon a general public sentiment of moral wrongdoing for which the offender must pay. But acts or omissions which any moral code would censure cannot, in a practical world, be treated so as to give a right to every person injured by them to demand relief. In this way rules of law arise which limit the range of complainants and the extent of their remedy. The rule that you are to love your neighbour becomes in law, you must not injure your neighbour; and the lawyer's question, Who is my neighbour? receives a restricted reply. You must take reasonable care to avoid acts or omissions which you can reasonably foresee would be likely to injure your neighbour. Who, then, in law, is my neighbour? The answer seems to be – persons who are so closely and directly affected by my act that I ought reasonably to have them in contemplation as being so affected when I am directing my mind to the acts or omissions which are called in question."
It has become fashionable to claim that Christianity is old fashioned and holds back western civilization. Without Christianity there is no western civilization.
When one of the busiest transport systems in the world is run with driver operated doors with very high levels of safety (after the unions telling us otherwise) and half of the commuter network is already using DCO, surely converting the other half is sensible.
The issue is that the RMT don't want to settle it, they want to try and force the franchise to be nationalised, that has always been their ultimate aim. In the end we will fully automate our railways and then everyone is out of work. Look at how McDonalds are reacting to the idea of a $15 minimum wage in the US.
As I've already stated, I'm not opposed to DCO in principle. What I'm opposed to is no other member of railway staff on each service. Two or three minutes between London Underground stations is one thing - half an hour or more between railway stations is something else.
Having a medically-trained competent member of railway staff on a service is invaluable - call them whatever you like - but as a source of information, aid or simply reassurance it's a positive.
I can't see an issue with this - unfortunately, there seem to be Conservatives whose sole desire is to "break" the RMT - the Party's obsession with destroying organised labour continues regrettably.
Someone who provides reassurance at doubling the staffing costs per journey. Also remember that Southern is a commuter franchise, I doubt that they have services with such long gaps between stations.
Point of order: that's about driver-only operation, *not* driverless. Driverless is a whole different kettle of fish for the reasons I've gone into passim. Basically, the station infrastructure is not set up for it.
Students of railway history (ahem) will recognise that this is just an extension of the Secondman union issues of the 1970s.
Basically: when diesel and electric replaced steam, there was no need for firemen. Yet the railways had a structure where seniority depended on a hierarchy: you started as a cleaner, and moved on up to eventually become a fireman, and then driver. Getting rid of firemen put a hole in this structure. AIUI it was decided that trains would have two staff in the cab - and in a few cases this made sense, especially where signalling was predicated by the visibility from steam engines.
If I recall correctly, the APT-E (or maybe prototype HST) was blackballed by the unions because it had only one seat in the cab, and no place for a second man (the old fireman).
Because the idea of a second man is ludicrous when the infrastructure evolved to cope with modern traction, the second man evolved to become the guard / revenue protection officer (ticket collector).
Very fair comment; though we should remember Trump himself has been subject to an assassination attempt - albeit a pretty rubbish one.
I'd have thought that would make it less likely for any normal person to make "jokes" about his supporters assassinating his opponent.
The more I see and hear about Trump, the more abnormal his behaviour seems to me.
Then again, considering Trump's attitudes, perhaps it was the judges who were his suggested assassination target.
Trump did add that it would be a "horrible day", so I don't think he was condoning it - just like he said that 'he' didn't want to rule Ted Cruz out but that people 'might look at it'...
I commute on Thameslink. The trains are DOO (driver only operated) with no guards, and this includes 12 car trains. This is part of the same franchise as Southern (run by GTR).
Similarly Gatwick Express trains are DOO, also run by GTR.
As a commuter I struggle to see why similar trains (eg class 377) run by the same company for the same franchise over the same tracks must have guards on some but not on others.
Interesting article. Not just for the story but a link in it to Donoghue v Stephenson in 1932 which established the legal "duty of care"
Even more interesting is that the whole concept of a Duty of Care is derived from the words of Jesus Christ ("the second is this: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no commandment greater than these." (Mark 12.31) "As Lord Justice Atkin put it in the house of Lords judgement: "At present I content myself with pointing out that in English law there must be, and is, some general conception of relations giving rise to a duty of care, of which the particular cases found in the books are but instances. The liability for negligence, whether you style it such or treat it as in other systems as a species of "culpa," is no doubt based upon a general public sentiment of moral wrongdoing for which the offender must pay. But acts or omissions which any moral code would censure cannot, in a practical world, be treated so as to give a right to every person injured by them to demand relief. In this way rules of law arise which limit the range of complainants and the extent of their remedy. The rule that you are to love your neighbour becomes in law, you must not injure your neighbour; and the lawyer's question, Who is my neighbour? receives a restricted reply. You must take reasonable care to avoid acts or omissions which you can reasonably foresee would be likely to injure your neighbour. Who, then, in law, is my neighbour? The answer seems to be – persons who are so closely and directly affected by my act that I ought reasonably to have them in contemplation as being so affected when I am directing my mind to the acts or omissions which are called in question."
It has become fashionable to claim that Christianity is old fashioned and holds back western civilization. Without Christianity there is no western civilization.
You are saying that these disinterested people who probably didn't even vote before are now alive to the minutiae and nuances of the PLP, the Deputy Leader, and so forth, and are angry?
Seems a big jump to me.
I didn't say that did I?
They don't need to be aware of minutae and nuances to know that that PLP are out to remove Corbyn.. and that creates obvious anger.
And if they have got that far, surely it will seem for all the world like the same old politics. Do you think such previous DNV-ers will now throw down their ploughshares and pick up their swords for the messy fight ahead?
I don't think it will seem like the same old politics where there is little to choose between the two main Parties. In fact they can see that JC is fighting to ensure that there IS a big difference between the two main Parties.
To that end, I think a lot will be prepared to fight, although for most their keyboard will be their weapon of choice, not a sword (or a brick, hopefully)
Indeed and we shall see. Of course as a purist, I hope so. If now is the the time for socialism, and the people rise up to demand it, then so be it.
The issue of non-voters was well-examined here, I think:
I see Trump has had his 'who will rid me of this turbulent priest' moment.
I was a member of Cheltenham's Staff Association (for the benefit of younger readers, Thatcher banned independent unions in '84, Blair restored trade union rights in '97) which performed all the normal functions of a union, but had a no-strike agreement with management. However, that only works in situations with mutual trust.
It's a tricky call to make. I instinctively dislike the idea that small numbers of workers can cause such misery to so many, but the right to withdraw one's labour seems to be a fundamental one.
However, in this instance I think the strikers are simply sealing their doom. It incentivises their management to look at ways to eliminate positions altogether.
Alas, the cod-psychology of self-help and motivational mumbo-jumbo has seeped into the Brexit debate. Leave campaigners are telling anyone who raises concerns about Brexit to ‘be positive’, ‘just get on with it’ and, my personal favourite, ‘move on’. It’s the sort of language adopted by managers who want to railroad a project through and don’t want to hear the staff tell them it might go wrong.
But just get on with what? Move on to what? I’m as happy as the next person to move on if it’s clear what we are moving on to but, at the moment, we have no idea. We might have voted against the EU but what did we vote for? The government should have had a plan, say the Brexit campaigners. (There it is again; turn your own failings into someone else’s problem.) But it is difficult to see how anyone could have planned for this, especially when we don’t know what ‘this’ is. “Brexit means Brexit,” said Theresa May, which sounds decisive but is anything but because Brexit can mean all sorts of things.
Very fair comment; though we should remember Trump himself has been subject to an assassination attempt - albeit a pretty rubbish one.
I'd have thought that would make it less likely for any normal person to make "jokes" about his supporters assassinating his opponent.
The more I see and hear about Trump, the more abnormal his behaviour seems to me.
Then again, considering Trump's attitudes, perhaps it was the judges who were his suggested assassination target.
Trump did add that it would be a "horrible day", so I don't think he was condoning it - just like he said that 'he' didn't want to rule Ted Cruz out but that people 'might look at it'...
Trump saying that it would be a horrible day confirms he WAS advocating assassination or at least to threaten assassination and scare Clinton.
Mr. P, expecting the government to have a plan for both options in a 50/50 referendum is not 'making your own failing someone else's problem', it's expecting a basic level of competence from those tasked with governing the country.
Comments
Trump may tank in the debates and the Clinton firewall would be substantially higher .... Is that what you meant? ....
Of the options available, strike action is usually the most effective, as long as you have the full support of the members. They remain powerful in the public sector because there's no risk of the company going bankrupt.
The BMA exist to do the same for doctors, and all the 'professions' have similar organisations. Who was it who called them "a conspiracy against the laity"?
To expect other people to accept poorer conditions for the 'public good' is asking a lot. When that question is asked, the response will be to point to the 'fat cats'.
It may be a cynical view, and many unions do take a more holistic view, but it's a risk they run if they have an embittered workforce.
Edit: Strike action not trike action!
The same as any other union/workplace legislation, of which there is a lot.
You are saying that these disinterested people who probably didn't even vote before are now alive to the minutiae and nuances of the PLP, the Deputy Leader, and so forth, and are angry?
Seems a big jump to me.
You're probably correct, but the union is in an awkward position. A barrister will defend their client and attempt to get the best "deal" despite them sometimes being selfish. They have a right to that, and it is expected.
Sometimes the workforce is happy with short-term fixes.
The new signalling upgrades on the Underground support automated trains, it's only a matter of time untill they get rid of the drivers completely. They've cried wolf too often.
http://dailym.ai/2bgHcYA
Automated rail technology OTOH...
What could possibly go wrong ....
http://www.londonreconnections.com/2016/last-stand-old-guard/
They don't need to be aware of minutae and nuances to know that that PLP are out to remove Corbyn.. and that creates obvious anger.
You are telling me, the very first website only appeared in Dec 1990 :-)
The on-board Guard has a number of functions - revenue collection of course but he or she can sell tickets, provide information (you'd be surprised how often, even in the online age, people ask railway staff for information on train times rather than try to find it themselves). He's also there as an authority figure with immediate contact to and back up from the British Transport Police if there is antisocial behaviour and he is the only one in direct contact with the driver and can convey information on delays and the like.
On the Tube, the driver does a lot of the information sharing and revenue collection has been supplemented by the "gate" system (doesn't prevent fare evasion) but the driver is the point of contact between train control and the passengers.
I sense the traditional old Conservative anti-Union vindictiveness at work here - the mantra is Unions are bad and must be destroyed it seems. As always, there's plenty of blame to throw around and GoVia don't exactly smell of roses either. Handing the whole operation over to TfL might not be the worst short term option.
Just finished Alan Johnson’s first book; would he have been a postman, and therefore a activist in the relevant Union if he’d been able to stay on at the grammar school he’d passed the 11+ for and, as he hoped once, become a writer?
DOO is the future.
Looked at the link. What on earth does the fact that he was a Morris Dancer have to do with his sexual proclivities. Indeed, the two words only appear once oin the whole piece.
Has the Heil decided to "take on" this hamrless and rather quaint activity?
The more I see and hear about Trump, the more abnormal his behaviour seems to me.
Then again, considering Trump's attitudes, perhaps it was the judges who were his suggested assassination target.
It's also about where your activists are and what they are prepared to do - a Conservative member who will deliver 50 leaflets in Beaconsfield or Maidenhead will be welcomed but, let's face it, they aren't adding that much apart from freeing up a more mobile activist to go elsewhere. Likewise, a Labour activist in Newham isn't really going to add much if they won't go outside their immediate area. Labour won 60 out of 60 Council seats in 2014 - you can't really do much more.
Sometimes it's just having the right people in the right place at the right time. As an LD, I've seen Council seats by a team of literally three or four keen activists who did everything while their opponents sat complacently around doing nothing. Nowadays, parties take nothing for granted and wisely so.
The issue is that the guard serves no purpose in the modern era, trains are built with door cameras and door sensors. The driver actually has a better overview of the train than the guard in many scenarios, especially the longer intercity services where physically standing outside and looking at the train isn't enough. As for delays the driver announces delays on the Tube, I don't see why it couldn't be that way on Southern. The instances where a BTP officer needs to be contacted are so very small that paying someone £40k per year to do it seems like a waste, especially when there are contact points at every station which can be used to do the same.
It's not vindictiveness, as I said there may be legitimate issues in the future for workers, but at this rate the RMT are doing everything they can to force the government's hand and bring in anti-union law and to bring in binding arbitration for public transport workers. All for very short term gains. Handing the franchise to TfL is the last thing the government should do, the RMT will then begin to agitate in all other commuter franchises over minor issues to force nationalisation. Terrible idea.
http://tinyurl.com/jfb73ws
In particular, this bit on page 63:
Initiatives to improve train service operations in ways that will generate long-term passenger benefits or operational improvements that will continue to accrue after the end of the Franchise Term. This could include the implementation of Driver Controlled Operation (DCO). Where DCO is proposed, the Department would require the franchisee to undertake appropriate consultation (with passengers and the workforce) including about supporting the continual development of the professional skills of on-train staff, in particular in relation to the on-board customer service passengers attach most value to.
FWIW, while I agree with the principle but the devil is in the detail. *Which* NHS staff shouldn't be allowed to strike, for example? Doctors? Nurses? Administrators? Cleaning staff? IT technicians? There's a very grey area in what is 'essential', what is 'useful' and what is 'nice to have'. Unless very carefully worded, the legislation could end up as either meaningless or draconian.
What does the evidence point to ?
Oopps ....
I will re-state I would prefer there to be a member of railway staff on each train - the driverless DLR trains have staff on them. You can call them a Guard or a Train Manager or a Customer Hospitality Co-Ordinator - I really don't care - but I think there needs to be a member of the railway staff present and available.
I understand technology and let's use it where we can - let's re-train and re-skill staff, no problem there. What I don't understand is relentless Union-bashing. GoVia and RMT could settle this but it's become political.
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2016/08/what-does-entryism-mean
http://tinyurl.com/z5dywo6
NEC: left slate 55% of vote, mods 35%, Izzard & other inds 10%. Swing mods to left only 3% since 2014. New NEC 16 Corbyn 17 not Corbyn.
and this is at peak Corbyn.
To that end, I think a lot will be prepared to fight, although for most their keyboard will be their weapon of choice, not a sword (or a brick, hopefully)
The issue is that the RMT don't want to settle it, they want to try and force the franchise to be nationalised, that has always been their ultimate aim. In the end we will fully automate our railways and then everyone is out of work. Look at how McDonalds are reacting to the idea of a $15 minimum wage in the US.
Or perhaps it was that the morris dancer costume was a bit more picturesque?
Having a medically-trained competent member of railway staff on a service is invaluable - call them whatever you like - but as a source of information, aid or simply reassurance it's a positive.
I can't see an issue with this - unfortunately, there seem to be Conservatives whose sole desire is to "break" the RMT - the Party's obsession with destroying organised labour continues regrettably.
telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10992117/Duke-of-Westminster-There-is-no-more-honourable-cause-than-helping-wounded-soldiers.html
Your comparison fails. Nothing at like being an arractive young lady!
Even more interesting is that the whole concept of a Duty of Care is derived from the words of Jesus Christ ("the second is this: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no commandment greater than these." (Mark 12.31)
"As Lord Justice Atkin put it in the house of Lords judgement: "At present I content myself with pointing out that in English law there must be, and is, some general conception of relations giving rise to a duty of care, of which the particular cases found in the books are but instances. The liability for negligence, whether you style it such or treat it as in other systems as a species of "culpa," is no doubt based upon a general public sentiment of moral wrongdoing for which the offender must pay. But acts or omissions which any moral code would censure cannot, in a practical world, be treated so as to give a right to every person injured by them to demand relief. In this way rules of law arise which limit the range of complainants and the extent of their remedy. The rule that you are to love your neighbour becomes in law, you must not injure your neighbour; and the lawyer's question, Who is my neighbour? receives a restricted reply. You must take reasonable care to avoid acts or omissions which you can reasonably foresee would be likely to injure your neighbour. Who, then, in law, is my neighbour? The answer seems to be – persons who are so closely and directly affected by my act that I ought reasonably to have them in contemplation as being so affected when I am directing my mind to the acts or omissions which are called in question."
It has become fashionable to claim that Christianity is old fashioned and holds back western civilization. Without Christianity there is no western civilization.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donoghue_v_Stevenson#Facts
Occasional Baseball Betting PostLA Dodgers for the NL West @ 13/8 with Betfair (or 6/4 elsewhere if that moves)
http://www.oddschecker.com/baseball/mlb/national-league-west/winner
http://www.fangraphs.com/coolstandings.aspx#NLW
Students of railway history (ahem) will recognise that this is just an extension of the Secondman union issues of the 1970s.
Basically: when diesel and electric replaced steam, there was no need for firemen. Yet the railways had a structure where seniority depended on a hierarchy: you started as a cleaner, and moved on up to eventually become a fireman, and then driver. Getting rid of firemen put a hole in this structure. AIUI it was decided that trains would have two staff in the cab - and in a few cases this made sense, especially where signalling was predicated by the visibility from steam engines.
If I recall correctly, the APT-E (or maybe prototype HST) was blackballed by the unions because it had only one seat in the cab, and no place for a second man (the old fireman).
Because the idea of a second man is ludicrous when the infrastructure evolved to cope with modern traction, the second man evolved to become the guard / revenue protection officer (ticket collector).
Similarly Gatwick Express trains are DOO, also run by GTR.
As a commuter I struggle to see why similar trains (eg class 377) run by the same company for the same franchise over the same tracks must have guards on some but not on others.
A lot of what we call Common Law, is pretty much the Ten Commandments.
Sounds like an easy one for management to resolve the workers issue.
The issue of non-voters was well-examined here, I think:
bbc.co.uk/programmes/b06950lm
I see Trump has had his 'who will rid me of this turbulent priest' moment.
I was a member of Cheltenham's Staff Association (for the benefit of younger readers, Thatcher banned independent unions in '84, Blair restored trade union rights in '97) which performed all the normal functions of a union, but had a no-strike agreement with management. However, that only works in situations with mutual trust.
It's a tricky call to make. I instinctively dislike the idea that small numbers of workers can cause such misery to so many, but the right to withdraw one's labour seems to be a fundamental one.
However, in this instance I think the strikers are simply sealing their doom. It incentivises their management to look at ways to eliminate positions altogether.
Crazy.
Only dipped in to read the thread header, and just want to say thanks to Mike - a very interesting observation.
Have a good day, I'm off again
But just get on with what? Move on to what? I’m as happy as the next person to move on if it’s clear what we are moving on to but, at the moment, we have no idea. We might have voted against the EU but what did we vote for? The government should have had a plan, say the Brexit campaigners. (There it is again; turn your own failings into someone else’s problem.) But it is difficult to see how anyone could have planned for this, especially when we don’t know what ‘this’ is. “Brexit means Brexit,” said Theresa May, which sounds decisive but is anything but because Brexit can mean all sorts of things.
https://flipchartfairytales.wordpress.com
Top 10 brands: Leave voters
HP Sauce
Bisto
ITV News
The Health Lottery
Birds Eye
Iceland
Sky News
Cathedral City
PG Tips
Richmond sausages
Top 10 brands: Remain voters
BBC.co.uk
BBC iPlayer
Instagram
London Underground
Spotify
Airbnb
LinkedIn
Virgin Trains
Twitter
EasyJet
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-36970535
What kind of a loser makes the BBC their favourite TWO brands?
Anderson 1,641
Berger 1,202
Run off:
Rotheram 2,670
Anderson 2,042