politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Time to take the idea of President Trump seriously
Options
Comments
-
Wow, Boris has got serious hair. These are changed times indeed.
https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/7542389107216179210 -
And that something is this: why is Salafism becoming the form of Islam of choice for more and more Arabs? The answer to that is that Arabs need to destroy, or at least subdue, Western culture before they can feel self-respect. Only Salafism accepts the legitimacy of this world-view - other forms of Islam don't.kle4 said:
The Crusaders weren't pious. But they had something to do with Christianity, right? Right?PlatoSaid said:A bit of plain speaking on Nice from Maajid Nawaz
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/15/please-stop-staying-the-nice-attacks-arent-about-islam/
He's right. It's not all to do with Islam. But it is something to do with it.
Is the world big enough for both points of view? Probably not.
0 -
Davis has relevant experience. He was Europe minister, and had business experience before entering parliament.MaxPB said:
Davis is the biggest gamble IMO. Like him or not, Fox was still the defence secretary and did a fair job.SouthamObserver said:
Fox and Davis are huge gambles. It's not as if they are dealmaking titans with extraordinary pedigrees of success. They're in there on the tent pissing theory alone.ydoethur said:
It wouldn't at all surprise me if both May and Hammond privately voted Leave. Hammond in particular has always been very Eurosceptic and had obviously been leant on heavily to support Dave's 'deal'. It would explain why they both kept a very low profile and didn't campaign for the Remain side - nothing worse than an unconvincing advocate.anotherDave said:
After reading his columns, I'm wondering if Mrs May voted Leave in the polling booth. Good times ahead.John_M said:I read all of Nick Timothy's Con Home columns. He's my kind of Tory. He's clearly influenced May's views - her Birmingham speech was his agenda in a nutshell.
It also meant, vey fortunately, that they are in an excellent position to clear up the mess. They have not destroyed themselves by publicly failing, nor given hostages to fortune by making extravagant promises they can't keep.
They are also in my judgment much abler administrators, more astute politicians and cleverer people than Cameron and Osborne.
That said, I am pretty worried by some of these cabinet appointments. It is hard to see how Leadsom, Truss, Fox and above all Johnson are going to end well. May has gambled big time. If it works, she's a genius. If however it doesn't...
"master's degree in Business (1971–73), and, later, Harvard University (Advanced Management Program 1984–85).
Davis worked for Tate & Lyle for 17 years, rising to become a senior executive, including restructuring its troubled Canadian subsidiary, Redpath Sugar.[4] He wrote about his business experience in the 1988 book How to Turn Round a Company."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Davis_(British_politician)
http://www.daviddavismp.com/rt-hon-david-davis-mp-biography/
0 -
Yes. Protect human rights and freedom of expression, limit how amok Erdogan can run, no coup.blackburn63 said:
Do you think anybody watching the news thinks:JosiasJessop said:
No, it wasn't. If anything yesterday 'proved' the opposite.blackburn63 said:
Leave's scaremongering was also justified, as yesterday proved.perdix said:
When Turkey looked like it was becoming more "European" in practice Cameron was favourably inclined. In recent years the authoritarian actions of the government would have changed Cameron's mind but it would not have been politic to publicly say so now that Turkey is needed to salvage Merkel's migration fiasco. In international politics it is not always wise to appease local critics. The unrest in Turkey will seriously set back its EU objectives and shows that Leave's scaremongering was just that.MaxPB said:
Not publicly, but yes. Clearly he did. If he had reversed the policy and said he would veto Turkish membership and insist on A 30-40 year transition period for migration to allow them in it would have neutralised the issue. Cameron is personally attached to Turkey's membership for some deranged reason.david_herdson said:
During the referendum, did he *want* - present tense - Turkey to join?blackburn63 said:
Yeah but yeah but yeah but, Cameron wanted Turkey to join, he never said otherwise, it was one of the biggest factors in the referendum.david_herdson said:
That, as you well know, is an extremely partial view.blackburn63 said:We had a PM called Cameron who wanted Turkey to join the EU.
It's becoming increasingly clear that he and his chums ran govt to their own benefit, none of them are anywhere to be seen. Still, he's looking on from his £17m house, like his idol Blair he had a plan all along.
Cameron was keen on the modernising, more secular, Westward-looking Turkey of 2011 joining. The one that was abolishing the death penalty and making other reforms in line with the Copenhagen principles. He wasn't at all keen on today's Turkey, where the government has pivoted and is now facing much more to Mecca; hence all his comment during the referendum.
Leave lied consistently about Turkey during the campaign.
(Snip)
Its about time Turkey joined the EU?0 -
Trade deals won't do much to encourage contraceptives, non-islamist education or support refugees. If we're not going to take in many of the latter we should certainly be helping to fund the camps.anotherDave said:
I think Priti is preparing the department for the axe in the next administration. A change from handouts, to generous trade deals.PlatoSaid said:
It's a real mixed bag for Priti. She wanted DfiD disbanded not so long ago - so it may be 'eat your greens' appointment by May. I think she'll take a knife to a lot of the nonsense spending that went on under previous regimes.OldKingCole said:Priti Patel’s post is the one that surprises me.
Greening was very rapidly house-trained there after an initial good start. I can't see Priti being deflected by anyone. She's very hawkish.0 -
Death penalty being brought back in Turkey.
OK - Definitely not joining EU now
0 -
So is Jeremy Corbyn safe now?
0 -
The initial analysis I saw was that their business model was very dodgy, constantly relying on new business to pay for current holidays commitments. Operating like that you are at the mercy of anything going wrong eg terrorist attack in a location where you sell lots of trips to.MarqueeMark said:
Blaming "fewer bookings ahead the Referendum". Hmmm.... Funny how other travel firms managed to survive this remarkable phenomenon.felix said:
Nothing to do with a crap business model and poor management then?
0 -
Faisal Islam @faisalislam 5m5 minutes ago
As an aside, Coup attempt shows in 4K ultra HD technicolour detail, why Turkey was/isn't going to be in EU for decades, let alone 2020...
Hear, hear.0 -
I wonder if Erdogan somehow "encouraged" this coup. It's going to work out incredibly well for him.0
-
no sign yet of the tennis semifinals from itf Bursa being cancelled (due off at 11:00 our time).
when all the troubles were kicking off in cairo, the itf tennis events just carried on as usual at sharm el sheikh. I think they might have had a week off after the russian plane incident but soon back to normal. it must be a little bubble out there.
0 -
His political ambitions looked dead and buried just two short weeks ago.SouthamObserver said:Wow, Boris has got serious hair. These are changed times indeed.
https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/7542389107216179210 -
Johnson and Fox I think will be OK or good. No opinion on Truss. Leadsom buckled under media pressure, but she's not a dummy.ydoethur said:
It wouldn't at all surprise me if both May and Hammond privately voted Leave. Hammond in particular has always been very Eurosceptic and had obviously been leant on heavily to support Dave's 'deal'. It would explain why they both kept a very low profile and didn't campaign for the Remain side - nothing worse than an unconvincing advocate.anotherDave said:
After reading his columns, I'm wondering if Mrs May voted Leave in the polling booth. Good times ahead.John_M said:I read all of Nick Timothy's Con Home columns. He's my kind of Tory. He's clearly influenced May's views - her Birmingham speech was his agenda in a nutshell.
It also meant, vey fortunately, that they are in an excellent position to clear up the mess. They have not destroyed themselves by publicly failing, nor given hostages to fortune by making extravagant promises they can't keep.
They are also in my judgment much abler administrators, more astute politicians and cleverer people than Cameron and Osborne.
That said, I am pretty worried by some of these cabinet appointments. It is hard to see how Leadsom, Truss, Fox and above all Johnson are going to end well. May has gambled big time. If it works, she's a genius. If however it doesn't...0 -
It's all worked out very nicely for the goat botherer...perhaps all too well. I am sure some conspiracy theories will emerge.Pulpstar said:Death penalty being brought back in Turkey.
OK - Definitely not joining EU now0 -
What are some examples of the nonsense spending at DFID, say over the last five years?PlatoSaid said:
It's a real mixed bag for Priti. She wanted DfiD disbanded not so long ago - so it may be 'eat your greens' appointment by May. I think she'll take a knife to a lot of the nonsense spending that went on under previous regimes.OldKingCole said:Priti Patel’s post is the one that surprises me.
Greening was very rapidly house-trained there after an initial good start. I can't see Priti being deflected by anyone. She's very hawkish.0 -
BF have him odds on, which he wasn't last time I looked. However, Dan Hodges has said it's game on or something like that now that the deadlines for being a member and a new £25 supporter fee have been set.Sunil_Prasannan said:So is Jeremy Corbyn safe now?
I can't see large numbers of previous summer romance £3ers stumping up £25 or indeed being capable or interested enough to do it in the two day window next week. A stunt by Len of UNITE for affiliated £2 voters has also been rule out of order. So I think it will be a lot tighter than last time.
Having said that, the moderates haven't even sorted out who the candidate is and there is a law suite going through the courts. So who knows.0 -
https://twitter.com/Sunil_P2/status/744654232469504001MaxPB said:
DfID spending is still protected at 0.7% of GDP, the cuts would have to be recycled.PlatoSaid said:
It's a real mixed bag for Priti. She wanted DfiD disbanded not so long ago - so it may be 'eat your greens' appointment by May. I think she'll take a knife to a lot of the nonsense spending that went on under previous regimes.OldKingCole said:Priti Patel’s post is the one that surprises me.
Greening was very rapidly house-trained there after an initial good start. I can't see Priti being deflected by anyone. She's very hawkish.0 -
The world events at the moment remind me of the harry Enfield characters "the scousers".0
-
You missed one of my brilliant thread headers!Casino_Royale said:
Yup. Fantastic time cheers. Largely a "digital free" break, i.e. no smartphones, which was just the mental break I needed too.JosiasJessop said:
Welcome back, hope you enjoyed yourself.Casino_Royale said:Just got back from a lovely, relaxing fortnight in Thailand.
Did I miss anything?
Nothing's happened. Politics has been its usual, quiet self.
Otherwise nothing......
Hope you had a lovely time. Welcome back.
0 -
Football... must... have... football...paulyork64 said:no sign yet of the tennis semifinals from itf Bursa being cancelled (due off at 11:00 our time).
when all the troubles were kicking off in cairo, the itf tennis events just carried on as usual at sharm el sheikh. I think they might have had a week off after the russian plane incident but soon back to normal. it must be a little bubble out there.
Tennis... must... have... tennis... 0 -
'goat botherer' ? - That’s your chances of becoming foreign secretary gone up in smoke…FrancisUrquhart said:
It's all worked out very nicely for the goat botherer...perhaps all too well. I am sure some conspiracy theories will emerge.Pulpstar said:Death penalty being brought back in Turkey.
OK - Definitely not joining EU now0 -
Welcome home, Casino - Thailand already had their coup a couple of years backCasino_Royale said:Just got back from a lovely, relaxing fortnight in Thailand.
Did I miss anything? 0 -
Aid to India is definitely a waste of money.JohnO said:
What are some examples of the nonsense spending at DFID, say over the last five years?PlatoSaid said:
It's a real mixed bag for Priti. She wanted DfiD disbanded not so long ago - so it may be 'eat your greens' appointment by May. I think she'll take a knife to a lot of the nonsense spending that went on under previous regimes.OldKingCole said:Priti Patel’s post is the one that surprises me.
Greening was very rapidly house-trained there after an initial good start. I can't see Priti being deflected by anyone. She's very hawkish.0 -
https://twitter.com/Sunil_P2/status/744654232469504001MaxPB said:
Aid to India is definitely a waste of money.JohnO said:
What are some examples of the nonsense spending at DFID, say over the last five years?PlatoSaid said:
It's a real mixed bag for Priti. She wanted DfiD disbanded not so long ago - so it may be 'eat your greens' appointment by May. I think she'll take a knife to a lot of the nonsense spending that went on under previous regimes.OldKingCole said:Priti Patel’s post is the one that surprises me.
Greening was very rapidly house-trained there after an initial good start. I can't see Priti being deflected by anyone. She's very hawkish.0 -
What aid to India? Thought it was stopped years ago?MaxPB said:
Aid to India is definitely a waste of money.JohnO said:
What are some examples of the nonsense spending at DFID, say over the last five years?PlatoSaid said:
It's a real mixed bag for Priti. She wanted DfiD disbanded not so long ago - so it may be 'eat your greens' appointment by May. I think she'll take a knife to a lot of the nonsense spending that went on under previous regimes.OldKingCole said:Priti Patel’s post is the one that surprises me.
Greening was very rapidly house-trained there after an initial good start. I can't see Priti being deflected by anyone. She's very hawkish.
Though given how many Indians are still impoverished whether it was a waste is debatable.0 -
AFAICR that was due to end at the end of last year?MaxPB said:
Aid to India is definitely a waste of money.JohnO said:
What are some examples of the nonsense spending at DFID, say over the last five years?PlatoSaid said:
It's a real mixed bag for Priti. She wanted DfiD disbanded not so long ago - so it may be 'eat your greens' appointment by May. I think she'll take a knife to a lot of the nonsense spending that went on under previous regimes.OldKingCole said:Priti Patel’s post is the one that surprises me.
Greening was very rapidly house-trained there after an initial good start. I can't see Priti being deflected by anyone. She's very hawkish.0 -
Well if May is more of a micro-manager it could be that all decisions and directions on policy will flow from her. Some of the new government may be right wingers, but loyal to May and willing to act her policies anyway even if they would personally prefer to go more right wing (thinking of Grayling for example).david_herdson said:
I can't be the only person who's struggling to reconcile a very centrist speech on the Downing St steps and the wholesale replacement of Cameroons with the Tory right in the government.JennyFreeman said:Agreed Casino Royale.
When I suggested she had parked her tanks on Labour's lawn he replied, 'we have no lawn left, you mean our compost heap.' But he agreed. If there were a Labour party left they should be quaking at that Downing St speech.
Right, I must press on.0 -
It didn't stop. The aid lets the Indian government off the hook for solving their own poverty issues.Philip_Thompson said:
What aid to India? Thought it was stopped years ago?MaxPB said:
Aid to India is definitely a waste of money.JohnO said:
What are some examples of the nonsense spending at DFID, say over the last five years?PlatoSaid said:
It's a real mixed bag for Priti. She wanted DfiD disbanded not so long ago - so it may be 'eat your greens' appointment by May. I think she'll take a knife to a lot of the nonsense spending that went on under previous regimes.OldKingCole said:Priti Patel’s post is the one that surprises me.
Greening was very rapidly house-trained there after an initial good start. I can't see Priti being deflected by anyone. She's very hawkish.
Though given how many Indians are still impoverished whether it was a waste is debatable.0 -
Assuming India's population is 1.2 billion, £279,000,000 per capita works out at 23p per Indian (2015 figure).Philip_Thompson said:
What aid to India? Thought it was stopped years ago?MaxPB said:
Aid to India is definitely a waste of money.JohnO said:
What are some examples of the nonsense spending at DFID, say over the last five years?PlatoSaid said:
It's a real mixed bag for Priti. She wanted DfiD disbanded not so long ago - so it may be 'eat your greens' appointment by May. I think she'll take a knife to a lot of the nonsense spending that went on under previous regimes.OldKingCole said:Priti Patel’s post is the one that surprises me.
Greening was very rapidly house-trained there after an initial good start. I can't see Priti being deflected by anyone. She's very hawkish.
Though given how many Indians are still impoverished whether it was a waste is debatable.0 -
Beach looks very crowded !SouthamObserver said:
Yep, if you operate a business model based solely on squeezing very tight margins and high volume deal flow you are going to come unstuck at some stage. If it hadn't have been Brexit it would have been something else.MarqueeMark said:
Blaming "fewer bookings ahead the Referendum". Hmmm.... Funny how other travel firms managed to survive this remarkable phenomenon.felix said:
Nothing to do with a crap business model and poor management then?0 -
Assuming India's population is 1.2 billion, £279,000,000 per capita works out at 23p per Indian (2015 figure).MaxPB said:
It didn't stop. The aid lets the Indian government off the hook for solving their own poverty issues.Philip_Thompson said:
What aid to India? Thought it was stopped years ago?MaxPB said:
Aid to India is definitely a waste of money.JohnO said:
What are some examples of the nonsense spending at DFID, say over the last five years?PlatoSaid said:
It's a real mixed bag for Priti. She wanted DfiD disbanded not so long ago - so it may be 'eat your greens' appointment by May. I think she'll take a knife to a lot of the nonsense spending that went on under previous regimes.OldKingCole said:Priti Patel’s post is the one that surprises me.
Greening was very rapidly house-trained there after an initial good start. I can't see Priti being deflected by anyone. She's very hawkish.
Though given how many Indians are still impoverished whether it was a waste is debatable.0 -
Does that matter if the aid program still saves lives?MaxPB said:
It didn't stop. The aid lets the Indian government off the hook for solving their own poverty issues.Philip_Thompson said:
What aid to India? Thought it was stopped years ago?MaxPB said:
Aid to India is definitely a waste of money.JohnO said:
What are some examples of the nonsense spending at DFID, say over the last five years?PlatoSaid said:
It's a real mixed bag for Priti. She wanted DfiD disbanded not so long ago - so it may be 'eat your greens' appointment by May. I think she'll take a knife to a lot of the nonsense spending that went on under previous regimes.OldKingCole said:Priti Patel’s post is the one that surprises me.
Greening was very rapidly house-trained there after an initial good start. I can't see Priti being deflected by anyone. She's very hawkish.
Though given how many Indians are still impoverished whether it was a waste is debatable.0 -
IF TM tries to micro-manage the business of government she will fail and fail big time. It might be possible to micro-manage one department (though only at the expense of the performance of that department) but not the whole of government.Paristonda said:
Well if May is more of a micro-manager it could be that all decisions and directions on policy will flow from her. Some of the new government may be right wingers, but loyal to May and willing to act her policies anyway even if they would personally prefer to go more right wing (thinking of Grayling for example).david_herdson said:
I can't be the only person who's struggling to reconcile a very centrist speech on the Downing St steps and the wholesale replacement of Cameroons with the Tory right in the government.JennyFreeman said:Agreed Casino Royale.
When I suggested she had parked her tanks on Labour's lawn he replied, 'we have no lawn left, you mean our compost heap.' But he agreed. If there were a Labour party left they should be quaking at that Downing St speech.
Right, I must press on.0 -
If you put the refugee issue to one side, generally speaking Merkel is probably the better role model, and judging by May's speech, is probably the direction she intends to go in.JennyFreeman said:Kle4 I agree except that she couldn't have known Leave would win. I think she thought Remain would win and she should be loyal to Cameron as she has been all down the years.
I repeat, she's formidable. She might have all the attributes of Thatcher without the shortcomings.0 -
There are 6 billion people in the world. How many of them do you think the british taxpayer should be responsible for?JosiasJessop said:
Does that matter if the aid program still saves lives?MaxPB said:
It didn't stop. The aid lets the Indian government off the hook for solving their own poverty issues.Philip_Thompson said:
What aid to India? Thought it was stopped years ago?MaxPB said:
Aid to India is definitely a waste of money.JohnO said:
What are some examples of the nonsense spending at DFID, say over the last five years?PlatoSaid said:
It's a real mixed bag for Priti. She wanted DfiD disbanded not so long ago - so it may be 'eat your greens' appointment by May. I think she'll take a knife to a lot of the nonsense spending that went on under previous regimes.OldKingCole said:Priti Patel’s post is the one that surprises me.
Greening was very rapidly house-trained there after an initial good start. I can't see Priti being deflected by anyone. She's very hawkish.
Though given how many Indians are still impoverished whether it was a waste is debatable.0 -
Morning all.
Good to see @CasinoRoyale is back on here.
I've just finished catching up with Cameron's final PMQ.
With the passing of the old regime I wonder which MP's will be bringing forward plans to stand down from frontline politics.
Anna Soubry and Sarah Wollaston I would have down as likely contenders.
0 -
Taking just one aspect of foreign aid: if we can help rid the world of diseases like polio, smallpox etc, we *all* win.anotherDave said:
There are 6 billion people in the world. How many of them do you think the british taxpayer should be responsible for?JosiasJessop said:
Does that matter if the aid program still saves lives?MaxPB said:
It didn't stop. The aid lets the Indian government off the hook for solving their own poverty issues.Philip_Thompson said:
What aid to India? Thought it was stopped years ago?MaxPB said:
Aid to India is definitely a waste of money.JohnO said:
What are some examples of the nonsense spending at DFID, say over the last five years?PlatoSaid said:
It's a real mixed bag for Priti. She wanted DfiD disbanded not so long ago - so it may be 'eat your greens' appointment by May. I think she'll take a knife to a lot of the nonsense spending that went on under previous regimes.OldKingCole said:Priti Patel’s post is the one that surprises me.
Greening was very rapidly house-trained there after an initial good start. I can't see Priti being deflected by anyone. She's very hawkish.
Though given how many Indians are still impoverished whether it was a waste is debatable.0 -
No it does not, we are not giving that much. It makes sense to provide aid in the form of specific British expertise and experience to work in conjunction with India's own efforts (not in place of it).MaxPB said:
It didn't stop. The aid lets the Indian government off the hook for solving their own poverty issues.Philip_Thompson said:
What aid to India? Thought it was stopped years ago?MaxPB said:
Aid to India is definitely a waste of money.JohnO said:
What are some examples of the nonsense spending at DFID, say over the last five years?PlatoSaid said:
It's a real mixed bag for Priti. She wanted DfiD disbanded not so long ago - so it may be 'eat your greens' appointment by May. I think she'll take a knife to a lot of the nonsense spending that went on under previous regimes.OldKingCole said:Priti Patel’s post is the one that surprises me.
Greening was very rapidly house-trained there after an initial good start. I can't see Priti being deflected by anyone. She's very hawkish.
Though given how many Indians are still impoverished whether it was a waste is debatable.0 -
Who knows how they squander all that money. They give it out like confetti to other people to decide where to spend it etc. It is a joke department.Philip_Thompson said:
What aid to India? Thought it was stopped years ago?MaxPB said:
Aid to India is definitely a waste of money.JohnO said:
What are some examples of the nonsense spending at DFID, say over the last five years?PlatoSaid said:
It's a real mixed bag for Priti. She wanted DfiD disbanded not so long ago - so it may be 'eat your greens' appointment by May. I think she'll take a knife to a lot of the nonsense spending that went on under previous regimes.OldKingCole said:Priti Patel’s post is the one that surprises me.
Greening was very rapidly house-trained there after an initial good start. I can't see Priti being deflected by anyone. She's very hawkish.
Though given how many Indians are still impoverished whether it was a waste is debatable.0 -
Yes, I remember May on question time around the time of the bill passing, she explained how she had changed her viewpoint from being against to being for it, and she seemed to be a genuine conversion to the cause.IanB2 said:
I have spoken to Lynne about this personally. Despite their huge political differences Featherstone readily acknowledges the backing she got from May that was critical to getting a potentially sceptical Tory party on side.JennyFreeman said:By the way, did anyone catch Lynne Featherstone's praise of Theresa May over the same sex marriage bill? I think it surprised a number of us to discover the bill may have fallen had TM not backed it to the hilt against massive opposition in the Home Office.
Didn't Cameron recently say that his government was the first centre-right government in the world to legalise gay marriage? If that's correct, quite an achievement for Cameron and May (and the Lib Dems of course, but as an explicitly progressive party it's less newsworthy).0 -
Yes it does because if a department exists purely to give money away it is inevitable that some of that money (and we are probably talking hundreds of millions per annum) will be wasted. That wasted money could be better spent saving lives here at home.JosiasJessop said:
Does that matter if the aid program still saves lives?MaxPB said:
It didn't stop. The aid lets the Indian government off the hook for solving their own poverty issues.Philip_Thompson said:
What aid to India? Thought it was stopped years ago?MaxPB said:
Aid to India is definitely a waste of money.JohnO said:
What are some examples of the nonsense spending at DFID, say over the last five years?PlatoSaid said:
It's a real mixed bag for Priti. She wanted DfiD disbanded not so long ago - so it may be 'eat your greens' appointment by May. I think she'll take a knife to a lot of the nonsense spending that went on under previous regimes.OldKingCole said:Priti Patel’s post is the one that surprises me.
Greening was very rapidly house-trained there after an initial good start. I can't see Priti being deflected by anyone. She's very hawkish.
Though given how many Indians are still impoverished whether it was a waste is debatable.
Please also remember that the £12bn p.a. budget of the DfID is borrowed money, that is to say it is money that is being taken from your child's future. Our children, and probably grandchildren, will be poorer because of this wasteful department that was set up so that a few politicians could feel pleased with themselves.0 -
That is sad. BBC had done a piece on her just a few days ago!MarqueeMark said:"Pakistani social media celebrity Qandeel Baloch has been killed by her brother in an apparent honour killing in the province of Punjab, police say.
Ms Baloch recently caused controversy by posting controversial pictures of herself on social media - including one with her alongside a Muslim cleric.
Police say Ms Baloch - a prominent feminist - was strangled to death."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-36814258
Pakistan is a land devoid of "honour".
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-36717990
As so often, the real danger came from her own family. Tragic.
If it goes to court, how many supporters will be cheering her brother on at his trial?0 -
Foreign aid does not have to be funded by taxation. British people can, and do, donate money to charitable organisations.JosiasJessop said:
Taking just one aspect of foreign aid: if we can help rid the world of diseases like polio, smallpox etc, we *all* win.anotherDave said:
There are 6 billion people in the world. How many of them do you think the british taxpayer should be responsible for?JosiasJessop said:
Does that matter if the aid program still saves lives?MaxPB said:
It didn't stop. The aid lets the Indian government off the hook for solving their own poverty issues.Philip_Thompson said:
What aid to India? Thought it was stopped years ago?MaxPB said:
Aid to India is definitely a waste of money.JohnO said:
What are some examples of the nonsense spending at DFID, say over the last five years?PlatoSaid said:
It's a real mixed bag for Priti. She wanted DfiD disbanded not so long ago - so it may be 'eat your greens' appointment by May. I think she'll take a knife to a lot of the nonsense spending that went on under previous regimes.OldKingCole said:Priti Patel’s post is the one that surprises me.
Greening was very rapidly house-trained there after an initial good start. I can't see Priti being deflected by anyone. She's very hawkish.
Though given how many Indians are still impoverished whether it was a waste is debatable.
0 -
Yes, it still lets the Indian government off the hook while maintaining a bullion dollar space programme and multi-billion dollar nuclear weapons programme.JosiasJessop said:
Does that matter if the aid program still saves lives?MaxPB said:
It didn't stop. The aid lets the Indian government off the hook for solving their own poverty issues.Philip_Thompson said:
What aid to India? Thought it was stopped years ago?MaxPB said:
Aid to India is definitely a waste of money.JohnO said:
What are some examples of the nonsense spending at DFID, say over the last five years?PlatoSaid said:
It's a real mixed bag for Priti. She wanted DfiD disbanded not so long ago - so it may be 'eat your greens' appointment by May. I think she'll take a knife to a lot of the nonsense spending that went on under previous regimes.OldKingCole said:Priti Patel’s post is the one that surprises me.
Greening was very rapidly house-trained there after an initial good start. I can't see Priti being deflected by anyone. She's very hawkish.
Though given how many Indians are still impoverished whether it was a waste is debatable.0 -
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/482322/SID2015c.pdfJosiasJessop said:
Taking just one aspect of foreign aid: if we can help rid the world of diseases like polio, smallpox etc, we *all* win.anotherDave said:
There are 6 billion people in the world. How many of them do you think the british taxpayer should be responsible for?JosiasJessop said:
Does that matter if the aid program still saves lives?MaxPB said:
It didn't stop. The aid lets the Indian government off the hook for solving their own poverty issues.Philip_Thompson said:
What aid to India? Thought it was stopped years ago?MaxPB said:
Aid to India is definitely a waste of money.JohnO said:
What are some examples of the nonsense spending at DFID, say over the last five years?PlatoSaid said:
It's a real mixed bag for Priti. She wanted DfiD disbanded not so long ago - so it may be 'eat your greens' appointment by May. I think she'll take a knife to a lot of the nonsense spending that went on under previous regimes.OldKingCole said:Priti Patel’s post is the one that surprises me.
Greening was very rapidly house-trained there after an initial good start. I can't see Priti being deflected by anyone. She's very hawkish.
Though given how many Indians are still impoverished whether it was a waste is debatable.
You have to wade through a lot of turgid number-vomit before you get to the pretty pictures on page 40. However, this tells you how much we spent, where we spent it and (not in all cases) what on.
Bottom line: the majority of our aid goes south of the equator, with Africa and Southern Asia being the UK's schwerpunkt.
The suggestions that we rebalance spending towards Dfid's conflict pool seem sensible to me.0 -
There's more to it than that, isn't there? We're not a small island loosely connected with the rest of the world any more; we're a small island that is highly connected.HurstLlama said:
Yes it does because if a department exists purely to give money away it is inevitable that some of that money (and we are probably talking hundreds of millions per annum) will be wasted. That wasted money could be better spent saving lives here at home.JosiasJessop said:
Does that matter if the aid program still saves lives?MaxPB said:
It didn't stop. The aid lets the Indian government off the hook for solving their own poverty issues.Philip_Thompson said:
What aid to India? Thought it was stopped years ago?MaxPB said:
Aid to India is definitely a waste of money.JohnO said:
What are some examples of the nonsense spending at DFID, say over the last five years?PlatoSaid said:
It's a real mixed bag for Priti. She wanted DfiD disbanded not so long ago - so it may be 'eat your greens' appointment by May. I think she'll take a knife to a lot of the nonsense spending that went on under previous regimes.OldKingCole said:Priti Patel’s post is the one that surprises me.
Greening was very rapidly house-trained there after an initial good start. I can't see Priti being deflected by anyone. She's very hawkish.
Though given how many Indians are still impoverished whether it was a waste is debatable.
Please also remember that the £12bn p.a. budget of the DfID is borrowed money, that is to say it is money that is being taken from your child's future. Our children, and probably grandchildren, will be poorer because of this wasteful department that was set up so that a few politicians could feel pleased with themselves.
Our children, and probably grandchildren, might be poorer if we *don't* try to help people abroad, especially when it comes to diseases and the like.
I'm not blithely disregarding waste; that needs to stop. But the idea that foreign aid does no good is ridiculous IMO.0 -
Absolute rubbish. We are subsidising India's space programme and weapons programme. We should not let the Indian government off the hook for having priorities that don't benefit the population. It is not our responsibility to look after the world's poor in nations who have the means to support their own.Philip_Thompson said:
No it does not, we are not giving that much. It makes sense to provide aid in the form of specific British expertise and experience to work in conjunction with India's own efforts (not in place of it).MaxPB said:
It didn't stop. The aid lets the Indian government off the hook for solving their own poverty issues.Philip_Thompson said:
What aid to India? Thought it was stopped years ago?MaxPB said:
Aid to India is definitely a waste of money.JohnO said:
What are some examples of the nonsense spending at DFID, say over the last five years?PlatoSaid said:
It's a real mixed bag for Priti. She wanted DfiD disbanded not so long ago - so it may be 'eat your greens' appointment by May. I think she'll take a knife to a lot of the nonsense spending that went on under previous regimes.OldKingCole said:Priti Patel’s post is the one that surprises me.
Greening was very rapidly house-trained there after an initial good start. I can't see Priti being deflected by anyone. She's very hawkish.
Though given how many Indians are still impoverished whether it was a waste is debatable.0 -
You're behind the times!david_herdson said:
I heard an abomination at work last week where it was announced that a document would be "socialised". Ugh.Charles said:
No - "Upskilling the workforce" (for mass redundancies) is the worst term that I have come across...JennyFreeman said:
I'm all for inventing words. 'Upculture' is gobsmackingly hideous. It's the worst example of computer-speak.JohnLoony said:
Why not? I invented it for the purpose of putting it in that sentence. I found it useful. I can invent words if I want to. If you disagree, you are a booliak, and you should be groaked until you confess.JennyFreeman said:
I've been having "socialisation meetings" to get people comfortable with an idea for more than a decade...0 -
The NHS does not have to be funded by taxation. British people can, and do, donate money to charitable organisations.anotherDave said:
Foreign aid does not have to be funded by taxation. British people can, and do, donate money to charitable organisations.JosiasJessop said:
Taking just one aspect of foreign aid: if we can help rid the world of diseases like polio, smallpox etc, we *all* win.anotherDave said:
There are 6 billion people in the world. How many of them do you think the british taxpayer should be responsible for?JosiasJessop said:
Does that matter if the aid program still saves lives?MaxPB said:
It didn't stop. The aid lets the Indian government off the hook for solving their own poverty issues.Philip_Thompson said:
What aid to India? Thought it was stopped years ago?MaxPB said:
Aid to India is definitely a waste of money.JohnO said:
What are some examples of the nonsense spending at DFID, say over the last five years?PlatoSaid said:
It's a real mixed bag for Priti. She wanted DfiD disbanded not so long ago - so it may be 'eat your greens' appointment by May. I think she'll take a knife to a lot of the nonsense spending that went on under previous regimes.OldKingCole said:Priti Patel’s post is the one that surprises me.
Greening was very rapidly house-trained there after an initial good start. I can't see Priti being deflected by anyone. She's very hawkish.
Though given how many Indians are still impoverished whether it was a waste is debatable.
Pensions do not have to be funded by taxation. British people can, and do, donate money to charitable organisations.
Benefits do not have to be funded by taxation. British people can, and do, donate money to charitable organisations.
Etc, etc.0 -
Well said.HurstLlama said:
Yes it does because if a department exists purely to give money away it is inevitable that some of that money (and we are probably talking hundreds of millions per annum) will be wasted. That wasted money could be better spent saving lives here at home.JosiasJessop said:
Does that matter if the aid program still saves lives?MaxPB said:
It didn't stop. The aid lets the Indian government off the hook for solving their own poverty issues.Philip_Thompson said:
What aid to India? Thought it was stopped years ago?MaxPB said:
Aid to India is definitely a waste of money.JohnO said:
What are some examples of the nonsense spending at DFID, say over the last five years?PlatoSaid said:
It's a real mixed bag for Priti. She wanted DfiD disbanded not so long ago - so it may be 'eat your greens' appointment by May. I think she'll take a knife to a lot of the nonsense spending that went on under previous regimes.OldKingCole said:Priti Patel’s post is the one that surprises me.
Greening was very rapidly house-trained there after an initial good start. I can't see Priti being deflected by anyone. She's very hawkish.
Though given how many Indians are still impoverished whether it was a waste is debatable.
Please also remember that the £12bn p.a. budget of the DfID is borrowed money, that is to say it is money that is being taken from your child's future. Our children, and probably grandchildren, will be poorer because of this wasteful department that was set up so that a few politicians could feel pleased with themselves.0 -
Absolutely. In my world that's been business-speak since Y2k, replacing 'running it up the flagpole'.Charles said:
You're behind the times!david_herdson said:
I heard an abomination at work last week where it was announced that a document would be "socialised". Ugh.Charles said:
No - "Upskilling the workforce" (for mass redundancies) is the worst term that I have come across...JennyFreeman said:
I'm all for inventing words. 'Upculture' is gobsmackingly hideous. It's the worst example of computer-speak.JohnLoony said:
Why not? I invented it for the purpose of putting it in that sentence. I found it useful. I can invent words if I want to. If you disagree, you are a booliak, and you should be groaked until you confess.JennyFreeman said:
I've been having "socialisation meetings" to get people comfortable with an idea for more than a decade...0 -
The most memorable thing about the ad is Hillary's creepy staring eyes at 00:54IanB2 said:
Very powerful. Makes our PPBs look like amateurville.Jonathan said:And impressive attack ad from Clinton that you may have missed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrX3Ql31URA0 -
Assuming India's population is 1.2 billion, £279,000,000 per capita works out at 23p per Indian (2015 figure).MaxPB said:
Absolute rubbish. We are subsidising India's space programme and weapons programme. We should not let the Indian government off the hook for having priorities that don't benefit the population. It is not our responsibility to look after the world's poor in nations who have the means to support their own.Philip_Thompson said:
No it does not, we are not giving that much. It makes sense to provide aid in the form of specific British expertise and experience to work in conjunction with India's own efforts (not in place of it).MaxPB said:
It didn't stop. The aid lets the Indian government off the hook for solving their own poverty issues.Philip_Thompson said:
What aid to India? Thought it was stopped years ago?MaxPB said:
Aid to India is definitely a waste of money.JohnO said:
What are some examples of the nonsense spending at DFID, say over the last five years?PlatoSaid said:
It's a real mixed bag for Priti. She wanted DfiD disbanded not so long ago - so it may be 'eat your greens' appointment by May. I think she'll take a knife to a lot of the nonsense spending that went on under previous regimes.OldKingCole said:Priti Patel’s post is the one that surprises me.
Greening was very rapidly house-trained there after an initial good start. I can't see Priti being deflected by anyone. She's very hawkish.
Though given how many Indians are still impoverished whether it was a waste is debatable.
23p per Indian.0 -
Doesn't matter. Let the Indian government spent it.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Assuming India's population is 1.2 billion, £279,000,000 per capita works out at 23p per Indian (2015 figure).MaxPB said:
Absolute rubbish. We are subsidising India's space programme and weapons programme. We should not let the Indian government off the hook for having priorities that don't benefit the population. It is not our responsibility to look after the world's poor in nations who have the means to support their own.Philip_Thompson said:
No it does not, we are not giving that much. It makes sense to provide aid in the form of specific British expertise and experience to work in conjunction with India's own efforts (not in place of it).MaxPB said:
It didn't stop. The aid lets the Indian government off the hook for solving their own poverty issues.Philip_Thompson said:
What aid to India? Thought it was stopped years ago?MaxPB said:
Aid to India is definitely a waste of money.JohnO said:
What are some examples of the nonsense spending at DFID, say over the last five years?PlatoSaid said:
It's a real mixed bag for Priti. She wanted DfiD disbanded not so long ago - so it may be 'eat your greens' appointment by May. I think she'll take a knife to a lot of the nonsense spending that went on under previous regimes.OldKingCole said:Priti Patel’s post is the one that surprises me.
Greening was very rapidly house-trained there after an initial good start. I can't see Priti being deflected by anyone. She's very hawkish.
Though given how many Indians are still impoverished whether it was a waste is debatable.
23p per Indian.0 -
Max would like it to be 2.3p. The question that should be asked is where the £279m is actually spent. I would say the vast majority is spent in the UK.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Assuming India's population is 1.2 billion, £279,000,000 per capita works out at 23p per Indian (2015 figure).MaxPB said:
Absolute rubbish. We are subsidising India's space programme and weapons programme. We should not let the Indian government off the hook for having priorities that don't benefit the population. It is not our responsibility to look after the world's poor in nations who have the means to support their own.Philip_Thompson said:
No it does not, we are not giving that much. It makes sense to provide aid in the form of specific British expertise and experience to work in conjunction with India's own efforts (not in place of it).MaxPB said:
It didn't stop. The aid lets the Indian government off the hook for solving their own poverty issues.Philip_Thompson said:
What aid to India? Thought it was stopped years ago?MaxPB said:
Aid to India is definitely a waste of money.JohnO said:
What are some examples of the nonsense spending at DFID, say over the last five years?PlatoSaid said:
It's a real mixed bag for Priti. She wanted DfiD disbanded not so long ago - so it may be 'eat your greens' appointment by May. I think she'll take a knife to a lot of the nonsense spending that went on under previous regimes.OldKingCole said:Priti Patel’s post is the one that surprises me.
Greening was very rapidly house-trained there after an initial good start. I can't see Priti being deflected by anyone. She's very hawkish.
Though given how many Indians are still impoverished whether it was a waste is debatable.
23p per Indian.0 -
Exactly Hurst, how many lives is it costing at home. A vanity project.HurstLlama said:
Yes it does because if a department exists purely to give money away it is inevitable that some of that money (and we are probably talking hundreds of millions per annum) will be wasted. That wasted money could be better spent saving lives here at home.JosiasJessop said:
Does that matter if the aid program still saves lives?MaxPB said:
It didn't stop. The aid lets the Indian government off the hook for solving their own poverty issues.Philip_Thompson said:
What aid to India? Thought it was stopped years ago?MaxPB said:
Aid to India is definitely a waste of money.JohnO said:
What are some examples of the nonsense spending at DFID, say over the last five years?PlatoSaid said:
It's a real mixed bag for Priti. She wanted DfiD disbanded not so long ago - so it may be 'eat your greens' appointment by May. I think she'll take a knife to a lot of the nonsense spending that went on under previous regimes.OldKingCole said:Priti Patel’s post is the one that surprises me.
Greening was very rapidly house-trained there after an initial good start. I can't see Priti being deflected by anyone. She's very hawkish.
Though given how many Indians are still impoverished whether it was a waste is debatable.
Please also remember that the £12bn p.a. budget of the DfID is borrowed money, that is to say it is money that is being taken from your child's future. Our children, and probably grandchildren, will be poorer because of this wasteful department that was set up so that a few politicians could feel pleased with themselves.0 -
Crooked Hillary!vik said:
The most memorable thing about the ad is Hillary's creepy staring eyes at 00:54IanB2 said:
Very powerful. Makes our PPBs look like amateurville.Jonathan said:And impressive attack ad from Clinton that you may have missed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrX3Ql31URA0 -
Perhaps if they bought a few less missiles , rockets , guns etc they could spend their own wonga on their people rather than taking handouts and hosing their own cash away.MaxPB said:
Doesn't matter. Let the Indian government spent it.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Assuming India's population is 1.2 billion, £279,000,000 per capita works out at 23p per Indian (2015 figure).MaxPB said:
Absolute rubbish. We are subsidising India's space programme and weapons programme. We should not let the Indian government off the hook for having priorities that don't benefit the population. It is not our responsibility to look after the world's poor in nations who have the means to support their own.Philip_Thompson said:
No it does not, we are not giving that much. It makes sense to provide aid in the form of specific British expertise and experience to work in conjunction with India's own efforts (not in place of it).MaxPB said:
It didn't stop. The aid lets the Indian government off the hook for solving their own poverty issues.Philip_Thompson said:
What aid to India? Thought it was stopped years ago?MaxPB said:
Aid to India is definitely a waste of money.JohnO said:
What are some examples of the nonsense spending at DFID, say over the last five years?PlatoSaid said:
It's a real mixed bag for Priti. She wanted DfiD disbanded not so long ago - so it may be 'eat your greens' appointment by May. I think she'll take a knife to a lot of the nonsense spending that went on under previous regimes.OldKingCole said:Priti Patel’s post is the one that surprises me.
Greening was very rapidly house-trained there after an initial good start. I can't see Priti being deflected by anyone. She's very hawkish.
Though given how many Indians are still impoverished whether it was a waste is debatable.
23p per Indian.0 -
How many Indians could survive on 23p a year?MaxPB said:
Doesn't matter. Let the Indian government spent it.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Assuming India's population is 1.2 billion, £279,000,000 per capita works out at 23p per Indian (2015 figure).MaxPB said:
Absolute rubbish. We are subsidising India's space programme and weapons programme. We should not let the Indian government off the hook for having priorities that don't benefit the population. It is not our responsibility to look after the world's poor in nations who have the means to support their own.Philip_Thompson said:
No it does not, we are not giving that much. It makes sense to provide aid in the form of specific British expertise and experience to work in conjunction with India's own efforts (not in place of it).MaxPB said:
It didn't stop. The aid lets the Indian government off the hook for solving their own poverty issues.Philip_Thompson said:
What aid to India? Thought it was stopped years ago?MaxPB said:
Aid to India is definitely a waste of money.JohnO said:
What are some examples of the nonsense spending at DFID, say over the last five years?PlatoSaid said:
It's a real mixed bag for Priti. She wanted DfiD disbanded not so long ago - so it may be 'eat your greens' appointment by May. I think she'll take a knife to a lot of the nonsense spending that went on under previous regimes.OldKingCole said:Priti Patel’s post is the one that surprises me.
Greening was very rapidly house-trained there after an initial good start. I can't see Priti being deflected by anyone. She's very hawkish.
Though given how many Indians are still impoverished whether it was a waste is debatable.
23p per Indian.
0 -
Interesting.
https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2016/jul/16/robot-factories-threaten-jobs-millions-garment-workers-south-east-asia-women
I should say that flexible manufacturing (i.e. bespoke clothing pretty much on-demand) was being forecast in one of my A-level physics set books in 1977.
We were all going to have to adjust to a leisure-based society. After spending most of my life working monstrously long hours, it now appears that the prediction might finally be about to come true.0 -
Soubry already gone. Back on backbenches.Hertsmere_Pubgoer said:Morning all.
Good to see @CasinoRoyale is back on here.
I've just finished catching up with Cameron's final PMQ.
With the passing of the old regime I wonder which MP's will be bringing forward plans to stand down from frontline politics.
Anna Soubry and Sarah Wollaston I would have down as likely contenders.0 -
Soubray has been sacked from the government according to Guido.Hertsmere_Pubgoer said:Morning all.
Good to see @CasinoRoyale is back on here.
I've just finished catching up with Cameron's final PMQ.
With the passing of the old regime I wonder which MP's will be bringing forward plans to stand down from frontline politics.
Anna Soubry and Sarah Wollaston I would have down as likely contenders.
Wollaston is Chair of a select committee and continues as far as we know.0 -
But it's peanuts anyway, way less than India's research budget. Here's that graph again:malcolmg said:
Perhaps if they bought a few less missiles , rockets , guns etc they could spend their own wonga on their people rather than taking handouts and hosing their own cash away.MaxPB said:
Doesn't matter. Let the Indian government spent it.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Assuming India's population is 1.2 billion, £279,000,000 per capita works out at 23p per Indian (2015 figure).MaxPB said:
Absolute rubbish. We are subsidising India's space programme and weapons programme. We should not let the Indian government off the hook for having priorities that don't benefit the population. It is not our responsibility to look after the world's poor in nations who have the means to support their own.Philip_Thompson said:
No it does not, we are not giving that much. It makes sense to provide aid in the form of specific British expertise and experience to work in conjunction with India's own efforts (not in place of it).MaxPB said:
It didn't stop. The aid lets the Indian government off the hook for solving their own poverty issues.Philip_Thompson said:
What aid to India? Thought it was stopped years ago?MaxPB said:
Aid to India is definitely a waste of money.JohnO said:
What are some examples of the nonsense spending at DFID, say over the last five years?PlatoSaid said:
It's a real mixed bag for Priti. She wanted DfiD disbanded not so long ago - so it may be 'eat your greens' appointment by May. I think she'll take a knife to a lot of the nonsense spending that went on under previous regimes.OldKingCole said:Priti Patel’s post is the one that surprises me.
Greening was very rapidly house-trained there after an initial good start. I can't see Priti being deflected by anyone. She's very hawkish.
Though given how many Indians are still impoverished whether it was a waste is debatable.
23p per Indian.
https://twitter.com/Sunil_P2/status/744654232469504001
0 -
He's gotten better at predictions since 2008. :PAlistair said:
He thought McCain would win because of racists.vik said:Scott Adams has a good blog post on how Dallas has helped Trump, by transforming the contest into one between "cop-killers" & "racists", and in such a contest, the "racists" will win.
http://blog.dilbert.com/post/147395227526/cop-killers-versus-racists0 -
Based on her tweets, Soubry is returning to her constituency to continue the fight for Remain. For the emperor! Banzai!David_Evershed said:
Soubray has been sacked from the government according to Guido.Hertsmere_Pubgoer said:Morning all.
Good to see @CasinoRoyale is back on here.
I've just finished catching up with Cameron's final PMQ.
With the passing of the old regime I wonder which MP's will be bringing forward plans to stand down from frontline politics.
Anna Soubry and Sarah Wollaston I would have down as likely contenders.
Wollaston is Chair of a select committee and continues as far as we know.0 -
Has Chris Bryant stop making a twat of himself yet?0
-
How much does India spend on its space programme?Sunil_Prasannan said:
How many Indians could survive on 23p a year?MaxPB said:
Doesn't matter. Let the Indian government spent it.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Assuming India's population is 1.2 billion, £279,000,000 per capita works out at 23p per Indian (2015 figure).MaxPB said:
Absolute rubbish. We are subsidising India's space programme and weapons programme. We should not let the Indian government off the hook for having priorities that don't benefit the population. It is not our responsibility to look after the world's poor in nations who have the means to support their own.Philip_Thompson said:
No it does not, we are not giving that much. It makes sense to provide aid in the form of specific British expertise and experience to work in conjunction with India's own efforts (not in place of it).MaxPB said:
It didn't stop. The aid lets the Indian government off the hook for solving their own poverty issues.Philip_Thompson said:
What aid to India? Thought it was stopped years ago?MaxPB said:
Aid to India is definitely a waste of money.JohnO said:
What are some examples of the nonsense spending at DFID, say over the last five years?PlatoSaid said:
It's a real mixed bag for Priti. She wanted DfiD disbanded not so long ago - so it may be 'eat your greens' appointment by May. I think she'll take a knife to a lot of the nonsense spending that went on under previous regimes.OldKingCole said:Priti Patel’s post is the one that surprises me.
Greening was very rapidly house-trained there after an initial good start. I can't see Priti being deflected by anyone. She's very hawkish.
Though given how many Indians are still impoverished whether it was a waste is debatable.
23p per Indian.
0 -
How would that even be possible?FrancisUrquhart said:Has Chris Bryant stop making a twat of himself yet?
0 -
Sort of - He and Hyacinth Bucket are taking turns - it's a job share thing...FrancisUrquhart said:Has Chris Bryant stop making a twat of himself yet?
0 -
I have family in India. Please don't try and lecture me about this. They don't need the aid subsidy. As surbiton has said, a fair amount if the money is probably spent here or on UK agencies with UK employees with little to no benefit for Indians. It is just bullshit spending that would be better spent on ensuring the refugee camps in Jordan and Turkey are fit for purpose. I'm not against aid spending and I don't mind the target, it needs redirecting to areas of real need.Sunil_Prasannan said:
How many Indians could survive on 23p a year?MaxPB said:
Doesn't matter. Let the Indian government spent it.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Assuming India's population is 1.2 billion, £279,000,000 per capita works out at 23p per Indian (2015 figure).MaxPB said:
Absolute rubbish. We are subsidising India's space programme and weapons programme. We should not let the Indian government off the hook for having priorities that don't benefit the population. It is not our responsibility to look after the world's poor in nations who have the means to support their own.Philip_Thompson said:
No it does not, we are not giving that much. It makes sense to provide aid in the form of specific British expertise and experience to work in conjunction with India's own efforts (not in place of it).MaxPB said:
It didn't stop. The aid lets the Indian government off the hook for solving their own poverty issues.Philip_Thompson said:
What aid to India? Thought it was stopped years ago?MaxPB said:
Aid to India is definitely a waste of money.JohnO said:
What are some examples of the nonsense spending at DFID, say over the last five years?PlatoSaid said:
It's a real mixed bag for Priti. She wanted DfiD disbanded not so long ago - so it may be 'eat your greens' appointment by May. I think she'll take a knife to a lot of the nonsense spending that went on under previous regimes.OldKingCole said:Priti Patel’s post is the one that surprises me.
Greening was very rapidly house-trained there after an initial good start. I can't see Priti being deflected by anyone. She's very hawkish.
Though given how many Indians are still impoverished whether it was a waste is debatable.
23p per Indian.0 -
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2016/07/14/new-cabinet-may-signal-britains-retreat-as-a-western-power/?postshare=6751468500598151&tid=ss_tw-bottom
Interesting article in Washington Post on how Britain is retreating from being a power on the world stage. You do get the impression we are becoming ever more isolationist (politically, not talking about trade etc). As they point out this may even help explain why May chose Boris - it's just not that important what the US thinks of our Foreign Sec, it's trumped by domestic concerns. Our participation in the Syria ISIS strikes may well be our last hurrah on the international stage. Whether this will be a good thing or not remains to be seen.
Thinking about an EU without Britain, it seems likely that the centre of gravity will shift further towards Russia, and further away from the US. A more equidistant EU between the two.0 -
Plato talked about "nonsense spending", HurstLlama refers to "this wasteful department that was set up so that a few politicians could feel pleased with themselves".
All I'm seeking are concrete examples of such project failures. I don't doubt a number exist: it would be unique in government departments if there weren't. But in the (relative) absence of conspicuous blunders, is it not an unreasonable assumption that DFID must doing some good work in helping to alleviate global poverty?0 -
SorryI should have prefaced my Bryant comment In regards to events in Turkey...0
-
Our aid to India in 2015 - £279 million - BUT, from my reading, it could well be the last time we actually give aid to India.brokenwheel said:
How much does India spend on its space programme?Sunil_Prasannan said:
How many Indians could survive on 23p a year?MaxPB said:
Doesn't matter. Let the Indian government spent it.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Assuming India's population is 1.2 billion, £279,000,000 per capita works out at 23p per Indian (2015 figure).MaxPB said:
Absolute rubbish. We are subsidising India's space programme and weapons programme. We should not let the Indian government off the hook for having priorities that don't benefit the population. It is not our responsibility to look after the world's poor in nations who have the means to support their own.Philip_Thompson said:
No it does not, we are not giving that much. It makes sense to provide aid in the form of specific British expertise and experience to work in conjunction with India's own efforts (not in place of it).MaxPB said:
It didn't stop. The aid lets the Indian government off the hook for solving their own poverty issues.Philip_Thompson said:
What aid to India? Thought it was stopped years ago?MaxPB said:
Aid to India is definitely a waste of money.JohnO said:
What are some examples of the nonsense spending at DFID, say over the last five years?PlatoSaid said:
being deflected by anyone. She's very hawkish.OldKingCole said:Priti Patel’s post is the one that surprises me.
Though given how many Indians are still impoverished whether it was a waste is debatable.
23p per Indian.
Anyhoo, their space program had a budget of 1.2 billion DOLLARs for 2015-16. Um, I'm not sure how much that is in £ Pounds now
As of 24 June 2016, ISRO has launched 131 satellites using indigenously developed launch vehicles out of which 74 are foreign. Also, 29 Indian satellites have been launched by foreign launch vehicles.[7] As of October 2015, ISRO has agreed to launch 23 foreign satellites of nine different nations including Algeria, Canada, Germany, Indonesia, Japan, Singapore and the US.[8] On June 18, 2016 India successfully set a record with launch of 20 satellites in a single payload, one being a satellite from Google.[9]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Space_Research_Organisation
0 -
PlatoSaid said:
It's a real mixed bag for Priti. She wanted DfiD disbanded not so long ago - so it may be 'eat your greens' appointment by May. I think she'll take a knife to a lot of the nonsense spending that went on under previous regimes.OldKingCole said:Priti Patel’s post is the one that surprises me.
Greening was very rapidly house-trained there after an initial good start. I can't see Priti being deflected by anyone. She's very hawkish.
It's time that overseas aid was provided in kind by government funded exports from the UK instead of giving cash to corrupt governments in underdeveloped countries.
0 -
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/445698/Annual-Report-2014-2015.pdfJohnO said:Plato talked about "nonsense spending", HurstLlama refers to "this wasteful department that was set up so that a few politicians could feel pleased with themselves".
All I'm seeking are concrete examples of such project failures. I don't doubt a number exist: it would be unique in government departments if there weren't. But in the (relative) absence of conspicuous blunders, is it not an unreasonable assumption that DFID must doing some good work in helping to alleviate global poverty?
That's what Dfid thinks it achieved. I've no particular axe to grind one way or another. If we're cutting spending, look at the big targets, not the small.
If you do even a cursory scan of our ODA efforts, they're widely distributed, broad in intent - and the spend is by no means confined to DfiD. Even the Welsh Assembly has ODA programs, modest though they are.
Could we be more efficient and better targeted? Of course. Should we be spending what can be considered borrowed money? Political call.0 -
And you assume that I don't?MaxPB said:
I have family in India. Please don't try and lecture me about this.Sunil_Prasannan said:
How many Indians could survive on 23p a year?MaxPB said:
Doesn't matter. Let the Indian government spent it.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Assuming India's population is 1.2 billion, £279,000,000 per capita works out at 23p per Indian (2015 figure).MaxPB said:
Absolute rubbish. We are subsidising India's space programme and weapons programme. We should not let the Indian government off the hook for having priorities that don't benefit the population. It is not our responsibility to look after the world's poor in nations who have the means to support their own.Philip_Thompson said:
No it does not, we are not giving that much. It makes sense to provide aid in the form of specific British expertise and experience to work in conjunction with India's own efforts (not in place of it).MaxPB said:
It didn't stop. The aid lets the Indian government off the hook for solving their own poverty issues.Philip_Thompson said:
What aid to India? Thought it was stopped years ago?MaxPB said:
Aid to India is definitely a waste of money.JohnO said:
What are some examples of the nonsense spending at DFID, say over the last five years?PlatoSaid said:
It's a real mixed bag for Priti. She wanted DfiD disbanded not so long ago - so it may be 'eat your greens' appointment by May. I think she'll take a knife to a lot of the nonsense spending that went on under previous regimes.OldKingCole said:Priti Patel’s post is the one that surprises me.
Greening was very rapidly house-trained there after an initial good start. I can't see Priti being deflected by anyone. She's very hawkish.
Though given how many Indians are still impoverished whether it was a waste is debatable.
23p per Indian.
0 -
I was thinking more of standing down from Parliament.David_Evershed said:
Soubray has been sacked from the government according to Guido.Hertsmere_Pubgoer said:Morning all.
Good to see @CasinoRoyale is back on here.
I've just finished catching up with Cameron's final PMQ.
With the passing of the old regime I wonder which MP's will be bringing forward plans to stand down from frontline politics.
Anna Soubry and Sarah Wollaston I would have down as likely contenders.
Wollaston is Chair of a select committee and continues as far as we know.0 -
Mr. M, of course, people interested in imperial discussion may enjoy my recent post about whether Manuel Comnenus was (partly) responsible for the fall of Byzantium:
http://thaddeusthesixth.blogspot.co.uk/2016/07/manuel-comnenus-man-who-lost-byzantium.html0 -
So bang goes our £8.5 billion (NET!) to the EU, then?David_Evershed said:PlatoSaid said:
It's a real mixed bag for Priti. She wanted DfiD disbanded not so long ago - so it may be 'eat your greens' appointment by May. I think she'll take a knife to a lot of the nonsense spending that went on under previous regimes.OldKingCole said:Priti Patel’s post is the one that surprises me.
Greening was very rapidly house-trained there after an initial good start. I can't see Priti being deflected by anyone. She's very hawkish.
It's time that overseas aid was provided in kind by government funded exports from the UK instead of giving cash to corrupt governments in underdeveloped countries. 0 -
British companies, and individuals are bankrupted by tax bills every year. So spending by the British government has to be 1. for the benefit of the british people, 2. necessary.JosiasJessop said:
The NHS does not have to be funded by taxation. British people can, and do, donate money to charitable organisations.anotherDave said:
Foreign aid does not have to be funded by taxation. British people can, and do, donate money to charitable organisations.JosiasJessop said:
Taking just one aspect of foreign aid: if we can help rid the world of diseases like polio, smallpox etc, we *all* win.anotherDave said:
There are 6 billion people in the world. How many of them do you think the british taxpayer should be responsible for?JosiasJessop said:
Does that matter if the aid program still saves lives?MaxPB said:
It didn't stop. The aid lets the Indian government off the hook for solving their own poverty issues.Philip_Thompson said:
What aid to India? Thought it was stopped years ago?MaxPB said:
Aid to India is definitely a waste of money.JohnO said:
What are some examples of the nonsense spending at DFID, say over the last five years?PlatoSaid said:
It's a real mixed bag for Priti. She wanted DfiD disbanded not so long ago - so it may be 'eat your greens' appointment by May. I think she'll take a knife to a lot of the nonsense spending that went on under previous regimes.OldKingCole said:Priti Patel’s post is the one that surprises me.
Greening was very rapidly house-trained there after an initial good start. I can't see Priti being deflected by anyone. She's very hawkish.
Though given how many Indians are still impoverished whether it was a waste is debatable.
Pensions do not have to be funded by taxation. British people can, and do, donate money to charitable organisations.
Benefits do not have to be funded by taxation. British people can, and do, donate money to charitable organisations.
Etc, etc.0 -
I am looking at teh whole £12B DFID budget, which I consider a vanity project. We see or hear little of it and for sure much will be wasted and go into the pockets of people with lots of money already. There must be much better ways to help poor at home and abroad.Sunil_Prasannan said:
But it's peanuts anyway, way less than India's research budget. Here's that graph again:malcolmg said:
Perhaps if they bought a few less missiles , rockets , guns etc they could spend their own wonga on their people rather than taking handouts and hosing their own cash away.MaxPB said:
Doesn't matter. Let the Indian government spent it.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Assuming India's population is 1.2 billion, £279,000,000 per capita works out at 23p per Indian (2015 figure).MaxPB said:
Absolute rubbish. We are subsidising India's space programme and weapons programme. We should not let the Indian government off the hook for having priorities that don't benefit the population. It is not our responsibility to look after the world's poor in nations who have the means to support their own.Philip_Thompson said:
No it does not, we are not giving that much. It makes sense to provide aid in the form of specific British expertise and experience to work in conjunction with India's own efforts (not in place of it).MaxPB said:
It didn't stop. The aid lets the Indian government off the hook for solving their own poverty issues.Philip_Thompson said:
What aid to India? Thought it was stopped years ago?MaxPB said:
Aid to India is definitely a waste of money.JohnO said:
What are some examples of the nonsense spending at DFID, say over the last five years?PlatoSaid said:
It's a real mixed bag for Priti. She wanted DfiD disbanded not so long ago - so it may be 'eat your greens' appointment by May. I think she'll take a knife to a lot of the nonsense spending that went on under previous regimes.OldKingCole said:Priti Patel’s post is the one that surprises me.
Greening was very rapidly house-trained there after an initial good start. I can't see Priti being deflected by anyone. She's very hawkish.
Though given how many Indians are still impoverished whether it was a waste is debatable.
23p per Indian.
https://twitter.com/Sunil_P2/status/7446542324695040010 -
Has Turkey declared war on the United States?0
-
Mr. Urquhart, it is surprising to hear Labour make light of a failed coup.0
-
Mr Dancer, I thought it was the Turks!Morris_Dancer said:Mr. M, of course, people interested in imperial discussion may enjoy my recent post about whether Manuel Comnenus was (partly) responsible for the fall of Byzantium:
http://thaddeusthesixth.blogspot.co.uk/2016/07/manuel-comnenus-man-who-lost-byzantium.html 0 -
Bet they spend more on themselves and swanning about the world.John_M said:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/445698/Annual-Report-2014-2015.pdfJohnO said:Plato talked about "nonsense spending", HurstLlama refers to "this wasteful department that was set up so that a few politicians could feel pleased with themselves".
All I'm seeking are concrete examples of such project failures. I don't doubt a number exist: it would be unique in government departments if there weren't. But in the (relative) absence of conspicuous blunders, is it not an unreasonable assumption that DFID must doing some good work in helping to alleviate global poverty?
That's what Dfid thinks it achieved. I've no particular axe to grind one way or another. If we're cutting spending, look at the big targets, not the small.
If you do even a cursory scan of our ODA efforts, they're widely distributed, broad in intent - and the spend is by no means confined to DfiD. Even the Welsh Assembly has ODA programs, modest though they are.
Could we be more efficient and better targeted? Of course. Should we be spending what can be considered borrowed money? Political call.0 -
I would have thought now was a completely excellent time for Cameron to establish the David Cameron Foundation for the alleviation of whatever he thinks needs alleviating, and put a great deal of his own money into it, if he feels that strongly about it. Unless that would conflict with the widely recognised goal of foreign aid, to transfer money from poor people in rich countries to rich people in poor countries.David_Evershed said:PlatoSaid said:
It's a real mixed bag for Priti. She wanted DfiD disbanded not so long ago - so it may be 'eat your greens' appointment by May. I think she'll take a knife to a lot of the nonsense spending that went on under previous regimes.OldKingCole said:Priti Patel’s post is the one that surprises me.
Greening was very rapidly house-trained there after an initial good start. I can't see Priti being deflected by anyone. She's very hawkish.
It's time that overseas aid was provided in kind by government funded exports from the UK instead of giving cash to corrupt governments in underdeveloped countries.0 -
Arrests now over 2,800:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-368139240 -
I have now finished my epic piece on the underlying economic causes of the rise of populist movements and parties in the US and Europe.
Ping me if you want me to email you it.0 -
Mr Dancer, I think more people died overnight in Turkey than in Nice on Thursday night.Morris_Dancer said:Arrests now over 2,800:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36813924
192 I think.0 -
I actually happened to know the answer, so as you can see they could quite easily redirect funds for these projects themselves.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Our aid to India in 2015 - £279 million - BUT, from my reading, it could well be the last time we actually give aid to India.brokenwheel said:
How much does India spend on its space programme?
Anyhoo, their space program had a budget of 1.2 billion DOLLARs for 2015-16. Um, I'm not sure how much that is in £ Pounds now
As of 24 June 2016, ISRO has launched 131 satellites using indigenously developed launch vehicles out of which 74 are foreign. Also, 29 Indian satellites have been launched by foreign launch vehicles.[7] As of October 2015, ISRO has agreed to launch 23 foreign satellites of nine different nations including Algeria, Canada, Germany, Indonesia, Japan, Singapore and the US.[8] On June 18, 2016 India successfully set a record with launch of 20 satellites in a single payload, one being a satellite from Google.[9]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Space_Research_Organisation
I actually wouldn't have so much of a problem if it were an actual bi-lateral project to allow India to increase development and support its people.
It isn't.0 -
There's a fair amount of padding in the DfID budget, isn't there? I read colonial pensions are included in there for example.malcolmg said:I am looking at teh whole £12B DFID budget, which I consider a vanity project. We see or hear little of it and for sure much will be wasted and go into the pockets of people with lots of money already. There must be much better ways to help poor at home and abroad.
0 -
Dr. Prasannan, you cheeky monkey!
Yes, it was the Ottomans. However, they were a long way from achieving that in the time of John (Manuel's father). [I forget if they were Ottomans then, might still have been Seljuks].
A combination of atrocious luck and, I would suggest, a strategic error [albeit an understandable one] by Manuel looking west after King Roger of Sicily died, made things rather worse for the Empire than they could've been.
Edited extra bit: Dr. Prasannan, indeed. I wonder if the death toll from executions will exceed that.
Different kettle of fish to terrorism, of course. Coups in Turkey are rather rarer.0 -
BUT, from my reading, 2015 could well be the last time we actually give aid to India.brokenwheel said:
I actually happened to know the answer, so as you can see they could quite easily redirect funds for these projects themselves.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Our aid to India in 2015 - £279 million - BUT, from my reading, it could well be the last time we actually give aid to India.brokenwheel said:
How much does India spend on its space programme?
Anyhoo, their space program had a budget of 1.2 billion DOLLARs for 2015-16. Um, I'm not sure how much that is in £ Pounds now
As of 24 June 2016, ISRO has launched 131 satellites using indigenously developed launch vehicles out of which 74 are foreign. Also, 29 Indian satellites have been launched by foreign launch vehicles.[7] As of October 2015, ISRO has agreed to launch 23 foreign satellites of nine different nations including Algeria, Canada, Germany, Indonesia, Japan, Singapore and the US.[8] On June 18, 2016 India successfully set a record with launch of 20 satellites in a single payload, one being a satellite from Google.[9]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Space_Research_Organisation
I actually wouldn't have so much of a problem if it were an actual bi-lateral project to allow India to increase development and support its people. It isn't.0 -
The centre of gravity will move even more to Berlin. The EU will continue to try to integrate and the Germans will have to pay for it as a price of wanting to control the United States of Europe.Paristonda said:https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2016/07/14/new-cabinet-may-signal-britains-retreat-as-a-western-power/?postshare=6751468500598151&tid=ss_tw-bottom
Interesting article in Washington Post on how Britain is retreating from being a power on the world stage. You do get the impression we are becoming ever more isolationist (politically, not talking about trade etc). As they point out this may even help explain why May chose Boris - it's just not that important what the US thinks of our Foreign Sec, it's trumped by domestic concerns. Our participation in the Syria ISIS strikes may well be our last hurrah on the international stage. Whether this will be a good thing or not remains to be seen.
Thinking about an EU without Britain, it seems likely that the centre of gravity will shift further towards Russia, and further away from the US. A more equidistant EU between the two.
Our failure to act in Syria in the early phase is indicative of our reluctance to get involved - a blow to Cameron and to our prestige when the HoC voted "No". However I can't see Germany taking a leading role in overseas adventures - they lack the forces and the will to do so. They will concentrate on building more links in order to sell more goods and for example will appease Russia to do so.
0 -
Malcolm your criticisms are just ignorant.malcolmg said:
Bet they spend more on themselves and swanning about the world.John_M said:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/445698/Annual-Report-2014-2015.pdfJohnO said:Plato talked about "nonsense spending", HurstLlama refers to "this wasteful department that was set up so that a few politicians could feel pleased with themselves".
All I'm seeking are concrete examples of such project failures. I don't doubt a number exist: it would be unique in government departments if there weren't. But in the (relative) absence of conspicuous blunders, is it not an unreasonable assumption that DFID must doing some good work in helping to alleviate global poverty?
That's what Dfid thinks it achieved. I've no particular axe to grind one way or another. If we're cutting spending, look at the big targets, not the small.
If you do even a cursory scan of our ODA efforts, they're widely distributed, broad in intent - and the spend is by no means confined to DfiD. Even the Welsh Assembly has ODA programs, modest though they are.
Could we be more efficient and better targeted? Of course. Should we be spending what can be considered borrowed money? Political call.
You could look at any government department, or the EU, or any international body, your local council, and point to money that could be better spent. Probably some of your own money could be better spent, who knows?
The fact remains that a lot of the DFID programmes produce impressive returns at relatively low cost. I have seen some of these first hand - for example the support given to reforming primary education in Rwanda. And its as much about exporting our expertise, know-how and support (which obviously costs money) as in just handing over cash.
And, at big picture level, the long-run solution to a lot of the domestic challenges we face lies in supporting the rest of the world in its development. Of course its slow, of course its painful and painstaking, but nevertheless its the only way. The fact that we can now see an end to the relentless growth of the world's population - which not too many years ago people thought would be inexorable - is just one example where development interventions have made a real and significant difference.
0 -
We all have bats in our belfry about some aspect of government spending Malcom. Mine is debt servicing costs and pensioner benefits (for rich pensioners, don't want to grind the faces of the poor).malcolmg said:
Bet they spend more on themselves and swanning about the world.John_M said:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/445698/Annual-Report-2014-2015.pdfJohnO said:Plato talked about "nonsense spending", HurstLlama refers to "this wasteful department that was set up so that a few politicians could feel pleased with themselves".
All I'm seeking are concrete examples of such project failures. I don't doubt a number exist: it would be unique in government departments if there weren't. But in the (relative) absence of conspicuous blunders, is it not an unreasonable assumption that DFID must doing some good work in helping to alleviate global poverty?
That's what Dfid thinks it achieved. I've no particular axe to grind one way or another. If we're cutting spending, look at the big targets, not the small.
If you do even a cursory scan of our ODA efforts, they're widely distributed, broad in intent - and the spend is by no means confined to DfiD. Even the Welsh Assembly has ODA programs, modest though they are.
Could we be more efficient and better targeted? Of course. Should we be spending what can be considered borrowed money? Political call.
As part of our global branding, Dfid is probably worthwhile, if just to stop this 'isolationist' wank that the media keeps spouting. Who knew a customs union would be so vital in determining our place in the world? Possibly its because people conflate some European programs (e.g. Horizon, Erasmus) with the EU. Whatever.
0
This discussion has been closed.