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Hmm...If Oborne doesn't like her she cannot be wholly without merit. #stillhopingtaffys said:http://www.middleeasteye.net/columns/theresa-may-boring-and-dangerous-1321705512
Devastating critique of May by Oborne. Just Devastating.
What have the conservatives done?0 -
Ok - are you IDS/Bill Cash/Andrea/John Baron, etc, etc. We have a right to know...
LOL...
Seriously I fear for the conservatives under May. I really do. But then it looks like the moulds of British politics are being shattered anyway.
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Labour MP's are trying to get rid of Jezza by hook or by crook, against the wishes of the Lab membership and the people who pay the bills (the unions)BannedInParis said:Can someone explain what's actually happening today?
Corbyn was elected leader by the membership on a 60% vote share less than 12 months ago...0 -
Interesting point of view from Ross Clark:
"A traditional family life is now a political handicap"
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/07/traditional-family-life-now-political-handicap/0 -
That was my thought as well.DavidL said:
Hmm...If Oborne doesn't like her she cannot be wholly without merit. #stillhopingtaffys said:http://www.middleeasteye.net/columns/theresa-may-boring-and-dangerous-1321705512
Devastating critique of May by Oborne. Just Devastating.
What have the conservatives done?
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Just rubbish. The handicap is in thinking that your family circumstances can make you superior.AndyJS said:Interesting point of view from Ross Clark:
"A traditional family life is now a political handicap"
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/07/traditional-family-life-now-political-handicap/0 -
I don't think so. They will only pay that much if they thought it would preform well going forward.John_M said:
They paid in sterling. Sterling has dropped ~20% since Brexit.nunu said:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36771596
I dont see how a faling pound helps them since they are based in America?
That's what might prevent a slump in London property prices.0 -
Simon KirbyBannedInParis said:Can someone explain what's actually happening today?
Labour just held a vote to determine how to hold its vote on whether to allow its members to vote for someone we might vote for. #democracy0 -
To use a topical phrase "regime change" is I suspect on the cards and all the Leadsomites "she's continuity Cameron" are going to look even more foolish, if that's possible.Richard_Nabavi said:My prediction, FWIW, is that George Osborne will not be in the next cabinet.
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mo she's Suzanne Evans....felix said:
Ok - are you IDS/Bill Cash/Andrea/John Baron, etc, etc. We have a right to know...taffys said:''What the upshot of all this is at the next general election is anybody's guess but UKIP should be very seriously thinking about the possibility of holding the balance of power. ''
If May lasts that long.0 -
@hugorifkind: For historical interest, here's Livingstone and Skinner complaining about the lack of a secret ballot: https://t.co/bRhO9Bzd56
@hugorifkind: I've also found a column Corbyn wrote in the Morning Star in 2006, supporting a secret ballot when MPs choose a speaker.
@hugorifkind: Pretty sure I used to be cooler than this. Fuck.0 -
I went cross-eyed.PlatoSaid said:
Simon KirbyBannedInParis said:Can someone explain what's actually happening today?
Labour just held a vote to determine how to hold its vote on whether to allow its members to vote for someone we might vote for. #democracy0 -
That's my sense of it too, although I have not subjected it to much scrutiny or thought. The extracts from the letter of Corbyn's lawyers sounded pretty bullish, and suggests this will be in the courts within a few days (or even tomorrow) as he seeks an injunction to prevent the contest proceeding until a substantive court hearing takes place (which could be weeks off). I think he might get his injunction, as a later payment of damages to him if the contest proceeds but a court later finds in Corbyn's favour, is going to be scant compensation for being wrongly stripped of a likely winning place on the ballot.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Borough, I agree, but the rules seem to indicate pretty strongly (to me, at least*) that Corbyn should automatically be on the ballot.
*Disclaimer: I am not on the National Executive Committee of the Labour Party.
Labour and Corbyn - the gifts that keep on giving...0 -
Be afraid, Toby, be very afraid: Big John knows where you live, so expect a booby-trapped stuffed owl through yours.Scott_P said:@tobyperkinsmp: On the day an MP has a brick put through their window for doing their job, people asking why volunteers on NEC want a secret ballot?
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I'll say it again, even if he isn't on the ballot paper, 300,000+ members will write CORBYN on the ballot - and vote for it. Whoever is declared the "winner" will have no authority - except over the MPs. Who will all be deselected. Pretty much the entire Labour Party in Westminster will be different after the next election - except those who were prepared to nominate Jeremy.oxfordsimon said:
As far as he is concerned, he has the overwhelming support of the membership - and thus the damage to unity comes from 172 traitors in the PLP0 -
Would this work as a way out for Labour:
Labour splits, but it's a negotiated split in which Continuity Labour and Provisional Labour pre-agree an electoral pact not to field candidates against each other.
Corbyn gets to remain Continuity Labour leader, but Provisional Labour gets to choose a new leader of the opposition.
They agree to fight the next general election on a joint manifesto which is simply "we will build a progressive consensus in Parliament to change the electoral system to PR, then immediately dissolve parliament".
Once PR is in place, the two Labours can then divorce completely without fear of being wiped out.0 -
Charlie Falconer on the brink of resigning ....BannedInParis said:Can someone explain what's actually happening today?
Michael Gove on the brink of the sack .... (Ooppps .... too early JackW ... sod it !!)
Theresa May on the brink of Number 10 Downing Street.
Jezza on the brink of the Law Courts.
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As if the EU encapsulates Labour moderates' whole view. Where on earth is the basis for this exactly? As I said before the very reason why Labour voters voted for Brexit is because of concerns regarding freedom of movement. The man you claim is close to Labour voters' political perspective is incredibly pro-freedom of movement and has far more left-wing views, than even the socially liberal PLP that you claim is miles away from the average Labour voter. As for Labour voters, back in April 2015 polls showed Ed Miliband scoring as a 81% of Labour voters 'approving' of him. Does it mean 81% of Labour voters would walk away from the party if Labour had deposed of Ed Miliband? No, it doesn't in my opinion. https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/vojtflusz6/YG-Archive-Pol-Sunday-Times-results-180415.pdf#page=3Danny565 said:
Fwiw, opinion polls put Corbyn's approval rating among Labour voters at around 60% -- that's not great for the standards of a normal party leader, since they should be getting near-universal support from their own supporters if they want a hope of winning over voters from other parties - but, when we're talking about a potential split in the party, it does rather suggest that the MORE THAN HALF of current Labour voters who approve of him WOULD walk away if he was ousted, no?The_Apocalypse said:
The Labour vote would have to be Corbyn loyalists in order to walk away from the Labour party if Corbyn is not on the ballot. The EU is just one issue - and in any case, a big reason as to why so many Labour voters voted for Brexit is due to the issue of immigration. Who advocates freedom of movement and is incredibly pro-immigration? One Jeremy Corbyn is, the guy you claim is closer to the average voter than the PLP are. The PLP want the Labour party at this stage to be a party committed to attaining power via parliamentary democracy, as @SouthamObserver explained so eloquently in his piece yesterday, that I really recommend you read. All fractions of the PLP have turned on Corbyn - from the right of the party to the centre-left. That kind of debunks your idea that this is all about the preservation of a Blairite centre-ground ideology. This is basically about the survival of the Labour party.
In any case, voters wouldn't have to particularly like Corbyn to support a breakaway party -- they would just have to think he was a lesser evil than continuity Labour led by Angela Eagle. And the referendum does show that the PLP are further away from heartlands opinion than Corbyn is -- I don't think the EU is just "one issue", it encapsulates the whole of the Labour moderates' worldview, and it was utterly rejected by Labour seats.
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@DPJHodges: I'm told Len McCluskey "going absolutely hysterical".0
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Stephen Bush @stephenkb 38m38 minutes ago
"Watson has stitched it up", texts senior loyalist.
Beaten by the ultimate union fixer. Oh, the irony of it all.0 -
I can't see the public being very keen on this idea somehow. How do the 2 parties decide who gets what seat? There is also no guarantee that all the voters for the 2 parties would vote as directed with some splitting off to the LDs or Greensgrabcocque said:Would this work as a way out for Labour:
Labour splits, but it's a negotiated split in which Continuity Labour and Provisional Labour pre-agree an electoral pact not to field candidates against each other.
Corbyn gets to remain Continuity Labour leader, but Provisional Labour gets to choose a new leader of the opposition.
They agree to fight the next general election which will consist of a manifesto that is simply "we will build a progressive consensus in Parliament to change the electoral system to PR, then immediately dissolve parliament".
Once PR is in place, the two Labours can then divorce completely without fear of being wiped out.0 -
Outside presumably as he's not on the NEC.Scott_P said:@DPJHodges: I'm told Len McCluskey "going absolutely hysterical".
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I wonder if Lens position is under theat at all - elections next year i think?Scott_P said:@DPJHodges: I'm told Len McCluskey "going absolutely hysterical".
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How could anyone tell the difference?Scott_P said:@DPJHodges: I'm told Len McCluskey "going absolutely hysterical".
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Yeah, but it's Dan Hodges. So I question the accuracy of his sources after last time. Len McCluskey losing the plot would be hilarious though.Scott_P said:@DPJHodges: I'm told Len McCluskey "going absolutely hysterical".
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NEC's legal advice is that any challenge from either side will fail.Bob__Sykes said:
That's my sense of it too, although I have not subjected it to much scrutiny or thought. The extracts from the letter of Corbyn's lawyers sounded pretty bullish, and suggests this will be in the courts within a few days (or even tomorrow) as he seeks an injunction to prevent the contest proceeding until a substantive court hearing takes place (which could be weeks off). I think he might get his injunction, as a later payment of damages to him if the contest proceeds but a court later finds in Corbyn's favour, is going to be scant compensation for being wrongly stripped of a likely winning place on the ballot.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Borough, I agree, but the rules seem to indicate pretty strongly (to me, at least*) that Corbyn should automatically be on the ballot.
*Disclaimer: I am not on the National Executive Committee of the Labour Party.
Labour and Corbyn - the gifts that keep on giving...0 -
Larry the Cat won't be evicted from Downing Street tomorrow:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3686476/A-win-Remain-Larry-cat-stay-Downing-Street-David-Cameron-hands-Theresa-Prime-Minister.html0 -
Keiran Pedley @keiranpedley 27m27 minutes ago
Personally I think the rules mean Corbyn should be on automatically.
Keiran Pedley @keiranpedley Jul 10
Why I think Corbyn should not automatically make the Labour leadership ballot
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.. in the post...Jobabob said:
In fairness you may have done so too Ian!IanB2 said:
*cough* think that was me....Jobabob said:
He tipped the NEC to destroy Corbyn. (Which opens up plenty of long-odds leader bets from the Right)Pulpstar said:
But what is the tip ?Jobabob said:Corbyn could be in a spot of bother here. If so, @rottenborough probably a very strong candidate for Tipster of the Year.
We shall see.0 -
Is he surprised? How did he get to his high position?JohnO said:
Outside presumably as he's not on the NEC.Scott_P said:@DPJHodges: I'm told Len McCluskey "going absolutely hysterical".
Anyway, anyone would think he doesn't actually want a Labour government.0 -
How much do you know about kyogen theatre? If it's not much then it may be difficult.BannedInParis said:Can someone explain what's actually happening today?
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I think it's clear the NEC are voting on whether they want Corbyn to be leader and not what the laws actually say.
The laws of this are clear, Corbyn is not a challenger so doesn't need nominating. But they want rid of him, so who cares about pesky things like that?0 -
https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/752898327516151808
Calls of nature getting urgent?
To consult with their spiritual advisors?0 -
Polly on the brink of.......JackW said:
Charlie Falconer on the brink of resigning ....BannedInParis said:Can someone explain what's actually happening today?
Michael Gove on the brink of the sack .... (Ooppps .... too early JackW ... sod it !!)
Theresa May on the brink of Number 10 Downing Street.
Jezza on the brink of the Law Courts.0 -
Only 3 of those are realistic, Charlie isn't going anywhere anytime soon.JackW said:
Charlie Falconer on the brink of resigning ....BannedInParis said:Can someone explain what's actually happening today?
Michael Gove on the brink of the sack .... (Ooppps .... too early JackW ... sod it !!)
Theresa May on the brink of Number 10 Downing Street.
Jezza on the brink of the Law Courts.0 -
The two are mutually consistent.Pulpstar said:Keiran Pedley @keiranpedley 27m27 minutes ago
Personally I think the rules mean Corbyn should be on automatically.
Keiran Pedley @keiranpedley Jul 10
Why I think Corbyn should not automatically make the Labour leadership ballot
The rules mean he should be, but he wishes for something else that isn't what the rules say.0 -
Larry the Cat remains securely in post though.JackW said:
Charlie Falconer on the brink of resigning ....BannedInParis said:Can someone explain what's actually happening today?
Michael Gove on the brink of the sack .... (Ooppps .... too early JackW ... sod it !!)
Theresa May on the brink of Number 10 Downing Street.
Jezza on the brink of the Law Courts.0 -
What sane person with an ounce of foresight or understanding would want to become Labour leader right now in such circumstances?SouthamObserver said:
You seriously think that half of Labour's current vote would walk away if Corbyn were not leader?Danny565 said:
Yeah, along with most of the Labour membership, and atleast half of Labour's current vote. That's what the PLP are prepared to let happen if it means they get one of "their own" installed.The_Apocalypse said:
That will be a small price to pay in comparison to what could happen if Corbyn wins the leadership again.AndyJS said:
If he's denied a place on the ballot, will he and 15 other Labour MPs resign their seats in the Commons? They can't just take this lying down, surely.The_Apocalypse said:What a laugh Corbyn is. You cannot make this up.
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Oh - Charlie Falconer has actually resigned.
#awkward0 -
locksmiths and glaziers, more likeRodCrosby said:https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/752898327516151808
Calls of nature getting urgent?
To consult with their spiritual advisors?0 -
Martyn Rowe
This must be the 1st time in history a political party is fixing it so the members can't vote for the person they want to win #LabourNEC0 -
So I guess the next step is huge numbers of Labour members demanding their MP nominate Corbyn, on threat of deselection. Will enough buckle?0
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This is my point about the current Labour party. It's precisely the same attitude that got them into the Iraq war too.Philip_Thompson said:I think it's clear the NEC are voting on whether they want Corbyn to be leader and not what the laws actually say.
The laws of this are clear, Corbyn is not a challenger so doesn't need nominating. But they want rid of him, so who cares about pesky things like that?
"It's illegal, top lawyerly advice"
"Oh never mind the law".
And the same mentality that allowed the likes of Damien Mcbride to flourish.0 -
It's possible. But honestly I really don't think it's going to happen. I honestly don't think the vast majority of the 300,000 really will care that much. They'll move on.MarqueeMark said:
I'll say it again, even if he isn't on the ballot paper, 300,000+ members will write CORBYN on the ballot - and vote for it. Whoever is declared the "winner" will have no authority - except over the MPs. Who will all be deselected. Pretty much the entire Labour Party in Westminster will be different after the next election - except those who were prepared to nominate Jeremy.oxfordsimon said:
As far as he is concerned, he has the overwhelming support of the membership - and thus the damage to unity comes from 172 traitors in the PLP0 -
Jezza is an unmitigated disaster for the Labour Party but I cannot read those rules in any way other than that he doesn't need to obtain signatures. This will get nasty.0
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With respect, have you actually spoken to (m)any Leave Labour voters?The_Apocalypse said:
As if the EU encapsulates Labour moderates' whole view. Where on earth is the basis for this exactly? As I said before the very reason why Labour voters voted for Brexit is because of concerns regarding freedom of movement. The man you claim is close to Labour voters' political perspective is incredibly pro-freedom of movement and has far more left-wing views, than even the socially liberal PLP that you claim is miles away from the average Labour voter. As for Labour voters, back in April 2015 polls showed Ed Miliband scoring as a 81% of Labour voters 'approving' of him. Does it mean 81% of Labour voters would walk away from the party if Labour had deposed of Ed Miliband? No, it doesn't in my opinion. https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/vojtflusz6/YG-Archive-Pol-Sunday-Times-results-180415.pdf#page=3
Immigration was one of the big factors (although on that score, Corbyn and the PLP "moderates" are exactly the same, since the PLP still want to stay in the EU and keep freedom of movement anyway). But other big factors were how much people hated the "career/Establishment politicians" who were leading the Remain campaign, how people were sick of the economy screwing over the little guy, and just generally a scream for ANY change from the terrible status quo. If Labour goes back to a career politician, not promising any real changes from the status quo and sucking up to big businesses, with their main campaigning issues being total fringe issues like feminism, it follows to expect it to fare similarly to the Remain campaign which also based its platform on that.
But the PLP "moderates" probably know all that secretly, and they're not even bothering to CLAIM they would be more electable than Corbyn anymore - all they want is to preserve their own ideology even if that comes at the cost of a Remain-style electoral meltdown.0 -
@HanDodges
Charlie Falconer calls. I'm asking for my case to be seen before Corbyn's at the NEC, he tells me. Gonna be a long night.0 -
Exactly. The rules were explicitly changed to clarify that the sitting leader did not need nominations. But they are pretending the rules say something else because they do not like what they actually say.Philip_Thompson said:I think it's clear the NEC are voting on whether they want Corbyn to be leader and not what the laws actually say.
The laws of this are clear, Corbyn is not a challenger so doesn't need nominating. But they want rid of him, so who cares about pesky things like that?0 -
I've levelled up to zero on Angela Eagle.IanB2 said:
What sane person with an ounce of foresight or understanding would want to become Labour leader right now in such circumstances?SouthamObserver said:
You seriously think that half of Labour's current vote would walk away if Corbyn were not leader?Danny565 said:
Yeah, along with most of the Labour membership, and atleast half of Labour's current vote. That's what the PLP are prepared to let happen if it means they get one of "their own" installed.The_Apocalypse said:
That will be a small price to pay in comparison to what could happen if Corbyn wins the leadership again.AndyJS said:
If he's denied a place on the ballot, will he and 15 other Labour MPs resign their seats in the Commons? They can't just take this lying down, surely.The_Apocalypse said:What a laugh Corbyn is. You cannot make this up.
This is a complete hospital pass. Who else will want it ?0 -
That legal advice in full: -- ffs Jeremy, just drink the hemlock..! Continued Pg 94.0
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It seems that if Corbyn can't get the 50 odd votes to be on the ballot he could resign and then stand as a candidate requiring only 30 odd votes.0
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Wasn't it Ed who came up with the £3 membership scheme. Amazing if he ends up being blamed for destroying the labour partyPlatoSaid said:Martyn Rowe
This must be the 1st time in history a political party is fixing it so the members can't vote for the person they want to win #LabourNEC0 -
Move on to a breakaway party.rottenborough said:
It's possible. But honestly I really don't think it's going to happen. I honestly don't think the vast majority of the 300,000 really will care that much. They'll move on.MarqueeMark said:
I'll say it again, even if he isn't on the ballot paper, 300,000+ members will write CORBYN on the ballot - and vote for it. Whoever is declared the "winner" will have no authority - except over the MPs. Who will all be deselected. Pretty much the entire Labour Party in Westminster will be different after the next election - except those who were prepared to nominate Jeremy.oxfordsimon said:
As far as he is concerned, he has the overwhelming support of the membership - and thus the damage to unity comes from 172 traitors in the PLP0 -
welshowl said:
How could anyone tell the difference?Scott_P said:@DPJHodges: I'm told Len McCluskey "going absolutely hysterical".
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Would that allow for a legal challenge in the interim, or are the two mutually exclusive. Would be delicious if the Supreme Court ruled in Corbyn's favour!David_Evershed said:It seems that if Corbyn can't get the 50 odd votes to be on the ballot he could resign and then stand as a candidate requiring only 30 odd votes.
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best not trust the members, they'd only get it wrongPlatoSaid said:Martyn Rowe
This must be the 1st time in history a political party is fixing it so the members can't vote for the person they want to win #LabourNEC0 -
The courts will back the NEC. The storm will die down in a few months...numbertwelve said:Jezza is an unmitigated disaster for the Labour Party but I cannot read those rules in any way other than that he doesn't need to obtain signatures. This will get nasty.
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I think Harriet was also very much involved in that planBig_G_NorthWales said:
Wasn't it Ed who came up with the £3 membership scheme. Amazing if he ends up being blamed for destroying the labour partyPlatoSaid said:Martyn Rowe
This must be the 1st time in history a political party is fixing it so the members can't vote for the person they want to win #LabourNEC0 -
Lots of those "members" he is talking about are uncivic dishonourable opponents of Labour who joined the scheme to game the system to the party's disadvantage.PlatoSaid said:Martyn Rowe
This must be the 1st time in history a political party is fixing it so the members can't vote for the person they want to win #LabourNEC
Names in a little black book.0 -
I thought @HanShotFirst?Jobabob said:@HanDodges
Charlie Falconer calls. I'm asking for my case to be seen before Corbyn's at the NEC, he tells me. Gonna be a long night.0 -
down the bookies?RodCrosby said:https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/752898327516151808
Calls of nature getting urgent?
To consult with their spiritual advisors?0 -
Ok I've got it. It's Larry the cat.
He's the only point of stability in the past three weeks, and so clearly he is orchestrating everything.0 -
No, it's far worse than 60% now:Danny565 said:
Fwiw, opinion polls put Corbyn's approval rating among Labour voters at around 60% -- that's not great for the standards of a normal party leader, since they should be getting near-universal support from their own supporters if they want a hope of winning over voters from other parties - but, when we're talking about a potential split in the party, it does rather suggest that the MORE THAN HALF of current Labour voters who approve of him WOULD walk away if he was ousted, no?
We don't have much recent polling of the general public but that of YouGov of union members out today is instructive.
Taking the group that, short of the Labour membership, you would expect to be most supportive of Corbyn in the wider public, his rating is thus:
Labour 2015 voters who are members of a trade union affiliated to the Labour Party:
Corbyn doing well 41%, badly 57%
Labour on course for Government in 2020: on course 30%, not on course 63%
Labour win in 2020 if Corbyn remains: likely 29%, unlikely 63%
Labour win in 2020 if Corbyn replaced: likely 43%, unlikely 40%
Corbyn should at the next general election: lead Labour 33% stand down before 58%
Corbyn at a Labour leadership election: vote for 45% not vote for 42%
And taking all who are members of a trade union affiliated to the Labour Party:
Corbyn doing well 33%, badly 63%
Labour on course for Government in 2020: on course 23%, not on course 68%
Labour win in 2020 if Corbyn remains: likely 24%, unlikely 69%
Labour win in 2020 if Corbyn replaced: likely 34%, unlikely 49%
Corbyn should at the next general election: lead Labour 32% stand down before 58%
Corbyn at a Labour leadership election: vote for 35% not vote for 38%
If this is what a group who could be expected to be supportive of a Labour leader think, goodness knows how dire his polling is amongst the general public now. I suspect that we'll have a lot of polling on that by the weekend.0 -
Maybe Abbott and/or McDonnell are taking soundings on whether than can reach the required number of nominations.0
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The courts will say it is the internal matter of the Labour Party. Therefore, whatever, NEC says , goes.murali_s said:
The courts will back the NEC. The storm will die down in a few months...numbertwelve said:Jezza is an unmitigated disaster for the Labour Party but I cannot read those rules in any way other than that he doesn't need to obtain signatures. This will get nasty.
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But the intent of the rule change at conference was clear, to make it so only challengers required the nominations.murali_s said:
The courts will back the NEC. The storm will die down in a few months...numbertwelve said:Jezza is an unmitigated disaster for the Labour Party but I cannot read those rules in any way other than that he doesn't need to obtain signatures. This will get nasty.
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I tend to agree with those who think the rules do not require the person being challenged, that is the incumbent, to be nominated but ffs, how can you possibly lead the party in Parliament when 3/4 have already passed a no confidence motion in you and 50 are not prepared to back you? This is through the looking glass, it really is.0
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So am I right in thinking that whatever happens today Theresa May is the winner. If Corbyn is on the ballot he wins the election and it's hideous for Labour. If he's not on the ballot he takes them to court, momentum go nuclear and it's hideous for Labour.0
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In the MiddleEastEye.....arguing she's tough on Muslims.......I wish the Leadsomites would make their minds up......ToryJim said:
It's Oborne...taffys said:http://www.middleeasteye.net/columns/theresa-may-boring-and-dangerous-1321705512
Devastating critique of May by Oborne. Just Devastating.
What have the conservatives done?0 -
Which implies the Courts can't make judgement on any contract law, since it is an internal matter to the contracting parties.surbiton said:
The courts will say it is the internal matter of the Labour Party. Therefore, whatever, NEC says , goes.murali_s said:
The courts will back the NEC. The storm will die down in a few months...numbertwelve said:Jezza is an unmitigated disaster for the Labour Party but I cannot read those rules in any way other than that he doesn't need to obtain signatures. This will get nasty.
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Her Majesty has been there as well probably despairing at her politicianswelshowl said:Ok I've got it. It's Larry the cat.
He's the only point of stability in the past three weeks, and so clearly he is orchestrating everything.0 -
And if anyone is a mould...taffys said:Ok - are you IDS/Bill Cash/Andrea/John Baron, etc, etc. We have a right to know...
LOL...
Seriously I fear for the conservatives under May. I really do. But then it looks like the moulds of British politics are being shattered anyway.0 -
Most will find another student protest to bother. The rest will concentrate on their own parties – like the Ukip in Plato's case or in Pulpstar's case the Greens/Liberals.rottenborough said:
It's possible. But honestly I really don't think it's going to happen. I honestly don't think the vast majority of the 300,000 really will care that much. They'll move on.MarqueeMark said:
I'll say it again, even if he isn't on the ballot paper, 300,000+ members will write CORBYN on the ballot - and vote for it. Whoever is declared the "winner" will have no authority - except over the MPs. Who will all be deselected. Pretty much the entire Labour Party in Westminster will be different after the next election - except those who were prepared to nominate Jeremy.oxfordsimon said:
As far as he is concerned, he has the overwhelming support of the membership - and thus the damage to unity comes from 172 traitors in the PLP0 -
So am I right in thinking that whatever happens today Theresa May is the winner. If Corbyn is on the ballot he wins the election and it's hideous for Labour. If he's not on the ballot he takes them to court, momentum go nuclear and it's hideous for Labour.0
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Polly T on the 300,000 members:
"This is a party in freefall, but those facts make no impression on Labour’s new members. Professor Tim Bale has surveyed them and finds 77% who joined after Corbyn became leader believe he will win the next general election. Denial, delusion, magical thinking, call it what you will, they believe it."0 -
Did Maggie need nominations after Sir Anthony Meyer (1989) and Michael Heseltine (1990) challenged her?0
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That could happen, perhaps - it's the sort of thing that Twitter could make possible. Does write-in have any place in the Labour constitution? I would suspect not, I've only previously heard of it in the context of America.rottenborough said:
It's possible. But honestly I really don't think it's going to happen. I honestly don't think the vast majority of the 300,000 really will care that much. They'll move on.MarqueeMark said:
I'll say it again, even if he isn't on the ballot paper, 300,000+ members will write CORBYN on the ballot - and vote for it. Whoever is declared the "winner" will have no authority - except over the MPs. Who will all be deselected. Pretty much the entire Labour Party in Westminster will be different after the next election - except those who were prepared to nominate Jeremy.oxfordsimon said:
As far as he is concerned, he has the overwhelming support of the membership - and thus the damage to unity comes from 172 traitors in the PLP0 -
Yes, I have. Most of my family votes Labour. I know Labour, Conservative, and even UKIP leavers. All of whom voted leave because of immigration. All of whom saw the economic problems affecting them, and potentially their children as connected to immigration. Did they dislike career politicians? Yes. But that's voters from all politcal parties, tbqh. Not just Labour. This isn't about going back to a career politician leading Labour. This isn't about installing a Blairite as the new Labour leader. This is about getting someone in - regardless of whether they are from the soft left of the party, or the right - who actually cares about winning elections. Who sees Labour as a political party, and not some meaningless social movement. Who takes into account the views of the membership, but does not hold the entire party hostage to each and everyone of their views. PLP moderates want to preserve the Labour party, as do the rest of the PLP. What they do not want is Leftist militants taking over the party, because once that happens there is no going back anymore.Danny565 said:With respect, have you actually spoken to (m)any Leave Labour voters?
Immigration was one of the big factors (although on that score, Corbyn and the PLP "moderates" are exactly the same, since the PLP still want to stay in the EU and keep freedom of movement anyway). But other big factors were how much people hated the "career/Establishment politicians" who were leading the Remain campaign, how people were sick of the economy screwing over the little guy, and just generally a scream for ANY change from the terrible status quo. If Labour goes back to a career politician, not promising any real changes from the status quo and sucking up to big businesses, with their main campaigning issues being total fringe issues like feminism, it follows to expect it to fare similarly to the Remain campaign which also based its platform on that.
But the PLP "moderates" probably know all that secretly, and they're not even bothering to CLAIM they would be more electable than Corbyn anymore - all they want is to preserve their own ideology even if that comes at the cost of a Remain-style electoral meltdown.0 -
Hmm I've rebacked Kinnock, Cooper, Jarvis, Benn and got Eagle to ~ zero.
Any other names who might come out the woodwork for a tilt ?0 -
maybe to get some black balls & a couple of jars for a secret vote?RodCrosby said:https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/752898327516151808
Calls of nature getting urgent?
To consult with their spiritual advisors?0 -
Momentum will be swotted away a la Militant in a few weeks if Watson has pulled this coup off. He hasn't yet so we can't get ahead of ourselves.ToryJim said:So am I right in thinking that whatever happens today Theresa May is the winner. If Corbyn is on the ballot he wins the election and it's hideous for Labour. If he's not on the ballot he takes them to court, momentum go nuclear and it's hideous for Labour.
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Different party, different rules.Sunil_Prasannan said:Did Maggie need nominations after Sir Anthony Meyer (1989) and Michael Heseltine (1990) challenged her?
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The Kinnock Precedent and the Collins Review.SeanT said:
Agreed. Don't get the assumption that the courts will concur with the NECnumbertwelve said:Jezza is an unmitigated disaster for the Labour Party but I cannot read those rules in any way other than that he doesn't need to obtain signatures. This will get nasty.
Any common sense reading of the rules finds in Jezbollah's favour. But IANAL and maybe there is some precedent which assists Labour.0 -
Avoid having a ballot by only having 1 candidate.MarqueeMark said:
I'll say it again, even if he isn't on the ballot paper, 300,000+ members will write CORBYN on the ballot - and vote for it. Whoever is declared the "winner" will have no authority - except over the MPs. Who will all be deselected. Pretty much the entire Labour Party in Westminster will be different after the next election - except those who were prepared to nominate Jeremy.oxfordsimon said:
As far as he is concerned, he has the overwhelming support of the membership - and thus the damage to unity comes from 172 traitors in the PLP0 -
Equally, how can you possibly lead a party in the country when the vast majority of its 600k members want someone else?DavidL said:I tend to agree with those who think the rules do not require the person being challenged, that is the incumbent, to be nominated but ffs, how can you possibly lead the party in Parliament when 3/4 have already passed a no confidence motion in you and 50 are not prepared to back you? This is through the looking glass, it really is.
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Seems the threats of physical intimidation have made some NEC members demand a secret ballot.
A nice own goal from Momentum's hard core thugs.0 -
Judging by the Twitter storm, possibly trying to enter the Witness Protection Program.megalomaniacs4u said:
maybe to get some black balls & a couple of jars for a secret vote?RodCrosby said:https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/752898327516151808
Calls of nature getting urgent?
To consult with their spiritual advisors?0 -
No! Peter Oborne wrote a devastating critique in the Middle East Eye - it's game over for May..ToryJim said:So am I right in thinking that whatever happens today Theresa May is the winner. If Corbyn is on the ballot he wins the election and it's hideous for Labour. If he's not on the ballot he takes them to court, momentum go nuclear and it's hideous for Labour.
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Corrected it for you.DavidL said:
Hmm...If Osborne doesn't like her she cannot be wholly without merit. #stillhopingtaffys said:http://www.middleeasteye.net/columns/theresa-may-boring-and-dangerous-1321705512
Devastating critique of May by Oborne. Just Devastating.
What have the conservatives done?
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DavidL said:
I tend to agree with those who think the rules do not require the person being challenged, that is the incumbent, to be nominated but ffs, how can you possibly lead the party in Parliament when 3/4 have already passed a no confidence motion in you and 50 are not prepared to back you? This is through the looking glass, it really is.
The man cannot be reasoned with, David.0 -
No, it means the courts can't make judgements on contract law when the contract defines who the separate arbitration panel is for resolving disputes.RobD said:
Which implies the Courts can't make judgement on any contract law, since it is an internal matter to the contracting parties.surbiton said:
The courts will say it is the internal matter of the Labour Party. Therefore, whatever, NEC says , goes.murali_s said:
The courts will back the NEC. The storm will die down in a few months...numbertwelve said:Jezza is an unmitigated disaster for the Labour Party but I cannot read those rules in any way other than that he doesn't need to obtain signatures. This will get nasty.
Most contractees would not be stupid enough to choose a nakedly political outfit as the impartial arbitrators, but this is the Labour Party we are talking about.0 -
David MilibandPulpstar said:Hmm I've rebacked Kinnock, Cooper, Jarvis, Benn and got Eagle to ~ zero.
Any other names who might come out the woodwork for a tilt ?0 -
But was Kinnock required?Jobabob said:
The Kinnock Precedent and the Collins Review.SeanT said:
Agreed. Don't get the assumption that the courts will concur with the NECnumbertwelve said:Jezza is an unmitigated disaster for the Labour Party but I cannot read those rules in any way other than that he doesn't need to obtain signatures. This will get nasty.
Any common sense reading of the rules finds in Jezbollah's favour. But IANAL and maybe there is some precedent which assists Labour.0 -
No, what they want is for Labour to continue being a party whose primary focus is on winning power through parliamentary elections. There is nothing else that unites the broad band of Labour MPs who are from all parts of the party, except the hard left (and maybe Andy Burnham)Danny565 said:
With respect, have you actually spoken to (m)any Leave Labour voters?The_Apocalypse said:
As if the EU encapsulates Labour moderates' whole view. Where on earth is the basis for this exactly? As I said before the very reason why Labour voters voted for Brexit is because of concerns regarding freedom of movement. The man you claim is close to Labour voters' political perspective is incredibly pro-freedom of movement and has far more left-wing views, than even the socially liberal PLP that you claim is miles away from the average Labour voter. As for Labour voters, back in April 2015 polls showed Ed Miliband scoring as a 81% of Labour voters 'approving' of him. Does it mean 81% of Labour voters would walk away from the party if Labour had deposed of Ed Miliband? No, it doesn't in my opinion. https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/vojtflusz6/YG-Archive-Pol-Sunday-Times-results-180415.pdf#page=3
Immigration was one of the big factors (although on that score, Corbyn and the PLP "moderates" are exactly the same, since the PLP still want to stay in the EU and keep freedom of movement anyway). But other big factors were how much people hated the "career/Establishment politicians" who were leading the Remain campaign, how people were sick of the economy screwing over the little guy, and just generally a scream for ANY change from the terrible status quo. If Labour goes back to a career politician, not promising any real changes from the status quo and sucking up to big businesses, with their main campaigning issues being total fringe issues like feminism, it follows to expect it to fare similarly to the Remain campaign which also based its platform on that.
But the PLP "moderates" probably know all that secretly, and they're not even bothering to CLAIM they would be more electable than Corbyn anymore - all they want is to preserve their own ideology even if that comes at the cost of a Remain-style electoral meltdown.
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Yes but who voted and how in the vote to have a secret vote. All we know is it was 17 - 15.rottenborough said:Seems the threats of physical intimidation have made some NEC members demand a secret ballot.
A nice own goal from Momentum's hard core thugs.0 -
Yes, but Theresa's got her own problems (namely Brexit)ToryJim said:So am I right in thinking that whatever happens today Theresa May is the winner. If Corbyn is on the ballot he wins the election and it's hideous for Labour. If he's not on the ballot he takes them to court, momentum go nuclear and it's hideous for Labour.
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Modesty forbids but if called upon by my colleagues.... etcPulpstar said:Hmm I've rebacked Kinnock, Cooper, Jarvis, Benn and got Eagle to ~ zero.
Any other names who might come out the woodwork for a tilt ?0 -
Lol. No.Big_G_NorthWales said:
David MilibandPulpstar said:Hmm I've rebacked Kinnock, Cooper, Jarvis, Benn and got Eagle to ~ zero.
Any other names who might come out the woodwork for a tilt ?0
