Mr. Simon, whilst I agree, the right is not immune to such daftness (see Baroness Warsi).
when i first speed read that I thought you said Barons Wars. I thought that was a long way to go back. not sure there was much of a left and right in that constitutional crisis, although europe could be claimed to be the cause. when did left and right start being used in the modern political sense?
French revolution, I believe. It was something like that in the Estates General, the (reactionary) clergy and aristocracy sat to the right of the Speaker and the representatives of the people (more progressive) sat to the left.
Technically it was the National Assembly not the Estates General. But yes, that's where it comes from.
I was dredging it from memory - apologies for the inaccuracies and thanks for the corrections. I was pretty close though. (IIRC, didn't Louis XVI recall the Estates General in a final throw of the dice to stave off revolution?)
'I have closely followed the saga of Andrea Leadsom's CV and have also worked in banks and fund management companies.
I my view her CV was accurate. She was the corporate banking manager for Barings when it suffered the Leeson fraud, she did have a title of director at Barclays bank, as did very many others. She did have the titles she gave when at Invesco Perpetual.
It was one or two of her supporters who seem to have incorrectly interpreted what her roles were. For example, she was not responsible for managing billions of pounds of funds when she was at Invesco, although her financial customers at Barclays would have had billions in loans.
Her remarks about being a mother were entirely accurate and contribute to her life experience and was valid in showing her breadth of experience.
Maybe she would have been on a steeper learning curve the May when it comes to the formalities of the PM's office but she does have a vision and optimism which May lacks but is needed in a leader.
May is more like Brown and will go missing in times of controversy, as she did in the referendum debate. '
Spot on, strange though when Cooper's team made the same comments about childless Kendall last year, we didn't get the outrage bit on this site.
As one would suspect the Brits are a fairly tolerant lot compared to many of our European brothers and sisters. Wouldn't fancy being non-white, non-Christian in Greece!
As someone who has litigated re clubs and societies I can say helpfully: a court could go either way on the leadership nominations issue.
If the NEC got decent advice and framed issue as "all candidates being treated equally", a court will probably not intervene.
A wily judge might refuse to hear a case until Corbyn had exhausted his domestic remedies - by seeing if he could get the nominations required so that the point is moot. Then, if he gets them, the party has regulated its own affairs and the Court hasn't intervened. If he does not get them, he looks awful, going to Court to have the right to be leader of the parliamentary party without even minority support.
All 7% of Britain's anti-Semites have joined Corbyn's Labour.
Dear old Blighty's numbers aren't too bad compared to our peers....but what is it still with Jews in some countries?
For some people, anti-Jewish sentiment is related to critical attitudes towards Israel.
I'd be interested to see the Roma figures for Romania...
The most anti-Roma people that I know are Romanians!
I would concur with that. All non-Roma Romanians I have come across are incredibly negative about the Roma. Comments like they live and act like the animals they keep being rather common theme mentioned. Was quite taken aback when a well educated and well travelled Romanian I did some business with came out with that.
@PickardJE: Remember theory that Burnham didn't resign as he wanted Corbynista support for Manchester-mayor bid?
Am told Momentum backing Tony Lloyd.
Missed out on a Nobel Peace Prize though.
Andrea won that......
I have closely followed the saga of Andrea Leadsom's CV and have also worked in banks and fund management companies.
I my view her CV was accurate. She was the corporate banking manager for Barings when it suffered the Leeson fraud, she did have a title of director at Barclays bank, as did very many others. She did have the titles she gave when at Invesco Perpetual.
It was one or two of her supporters who seem to have incorrectly interpreted what her roles were. For example, she was not responsible for managing billions of pounds of funds when she was at Invesco, although her financial customers at Barclays would have had billions in loans.
Her remarks about being a mother were entirely accurate and contribute to her life experience and was valid in showing her breadth of experience.
Maybe she would have been on a steeper learning curve the May when it comes to the formalities of the PM's office but she does have a vision and optimism which May lacks but is needed in a leader.
May is more like Brown and will go missing in times of controversy, as she did in the referendum debate.
The Leadsom cv fiasco was as close to a swiftboating as I have seen in UK politics. Someone who had had a genuinely successful career out of politics was suddenly mocked far more ferociously than someone who had basically worked in the safety of the public sector.
Doesn't mean Leadsom should have won, not by a long shot. She was clearly not ready. But those involved in this unedifying spectacle should be noted and treated with great disdain in the future.
Would you like some marbles?
She corrected her misleading CV, just ask Robert what his reaction would be if he had hired someone who claimed what Andrea Leadsom had on her CV but in reality had Andrea Leadsom's actual lesser experience.
''All those WWC Leavers who voted primarily on immigration are going to be mighty disappointed if Freedom of Movement is retained, and presumably even more so if there's an increase in 'commonwealth' immigration if FoM is dispensed with. ''
May's answer appears to be socialism in the boardroom.
The tories have taken the easy way out. As Lord Tebbit writes today - they will pay, big time.
Usually the wise betting strategy is to take what Lord Tebbit says, then bet against it.
He was saying the momentum was with Leave while you were declaring 'the UK will not vote to leave the EU'
I changed my mind. I bet accordingly. I won quite a bit on the referendum.
Me too, one of my biggest ever wins
Threw back £500 of the profit on Boris next PM though
Strange flip flop from you though.Your posts didn't even allow for the possibility of a Leave win.
I bet on Leave two weeks earlier and let the bet ride as insurance. Close to the poll (thanks to changing polls) I changed my view and thought Remain would scrape a win but did not bet on it as I rarely if ever back outcomes I favour politically, and the odds were so short it wasn't worth betting on. So I won on an older bet, despite thinking the bet was a likely loser by the time polling day arrived!
''Because all the Brexiteers have run away and left the grown ups in charge...''
After Siemens volte face today its going to be fun poking your many false assertions up your backside in the next few months,
A bit of caution on the Siemens article, I haven't read the BBC one, but in the FT the CEO is quoted saying that the second round of investment which would tool the factory up for exports us still dependent on our single market status and how easily they could sell the carriages in the Netherlands and other European countries without coach building capacity.
Business people deal with the world as they find it. Trade will continue. The decisions are marginal ones about where to place investment.
No doubt, but part of the reason to aim for the 15% corporation tax would be to ameliorate any possible tariffs should we end up on WTO terms.
This question came up at Indyref. The idea was that Scotland would substitute for less access to the UK market by competitively reducing corporation tax. Similar to the approach adopted in Ireland. The consequence however would be a brutal cut in welfare because there would be less revenue (bear in mind this was still at peak oil). You wouldn't be able to substitute other taxes like income taxes on the wealthy because that would negate your corporation tax policy. Bear in mind also that the SNP and I think now Theresa May pitches to older people, public sector workers and those on modest incomes.
I don't how the numbers fall out at the UK level but I suspect the corporation tax reduction would have a noticeable effect on welfare.
''Doesn't mean Leadsom should have won, not by a long shot. She was clearly not ready. But those involved in this unedifying spectacle should be noted and treated with great disdain in the future. ''
Has there been a foreign war Theresa May hasn't voted for?
I was surprised to see her voting record on Victoria Derbyshire earlier. Voted against tuition fees in opposition and for them in govt too.
I think most of that is rather misleading...although they did put the caption at the end...basically she has just voted as the leader of her party requested on each of those occurrences. As she has been a minster / shadow minster for the time covering most of those votes, it isn't as if she could easily go against that in the way Jahadi Jez does.
If Corbyn remains as leader, Labour are screwed. You can't go into an election with your Parliamentary party having no confidence in the leader. You are simply not in a position to form a govt.
If Corbyn goes, Labour are probably screwed. Momentum will undermine whoever succeeds him.
The only remote hope is that Labour finds someone new and acceptable to both sides. Because this has gone on so long, there is less than 1% chance of that happening.
''Because all the Brexiteers have run away and left the grown ups in charge...''
After Siemens volte face today its going to be fun poking your many false assertions up your backside in the next few months,
A bit of caution on the Siemens article, I haven't read the BBC one, but in the FT the CEO is quoted saying that the second round of investment which would tool the factory up for exports us still dependent on our single market status and how easily they could sell the carriages in the Netherlands and other European countries without coach building capacity.
Business people deal with the world as they find it. Trade will continue. The decisions are marginal ones about where to place investment.
No doubt, but part of the reason to aim for the 15% corporation tax would be to ameliorate any possible tariffs should we end up on WTO terms.
This question came up at Indyref. The idea was that Scotland would substitute for less access to the UK market by competitively reducing corporation tax. Similar to the approach adopted in Ireland. The consequence however would be a brutal cut in welfare because there would be less revenue (bear in mind this was still at peak oil). You wouldn't be able to substitute other taxes like income taxes on the wealthy because that would negate your corporation tax policy. Bear in mind also that the SNP and I think now Theresa May pitches to older people, public sector workers and those on modest incomes.
I don't how the numbers fall out at the UK level but I suspect the corporation tax reduction would have a noticeable effect on welfare.
A 1% cut to corporation tax costs £600m in lost receipts but that is offset by higher income tax receipts from job creation. The latter is not easy to estimate, I have it down as £250m, but its just a guess. Additionally there is a long term effect of boosting business creation and drawing in overseas companies. Those two tend to cancel each other out though. In real terms corporation tax receipts are about 4-5% lower than pre-2008 levels but the rate has dropped by a third and we've had record job creation in that time.
Just curious on Nick's comments on how [as seemingly reported] 700 Momentum supporters turned up from London over the weekend, and took over the Brighton & Hove Labour party in a single bite...
Just curious on Nick's comments on how [as seemingly reported] 700 Momentum supporters turned up from London over the weekend, and took over the Brighton & Hove Labour party in a single bite...
Given the performance of Southern trains it seems unlikely.
Just curious on Nick's comments on how [as seemingly reported] 700 Momentum supporters turned up from London over the weekend, and took over the Brighton & Hove Labour party in a single bite...
@PickardJE: Remember theory that Burnham didn't resign as he wanted Corbynista support for Manchester-mayor bid?
Am told Momentum backing Tony Lloyd.
Missed out on a Nobel Peace Prize though.
Andrea won that......
I have closely followed the saga of Andrea Leadsom's CV and have also worked in banks and fund management companies.
I my view her CV was accurate. She was the corporate banking manager for Barings when it suffered the Leeson fraud, she did have a title of director at Barclays bank, as did very many others. She did have the titles she gave when at Invesco Perpetual.
It was one or two of her supporters who seem to have incorrectly interpreted what her roles were. For example, she was not responsible for managing billions of pounds of funds when she was at Invesco, although her financial customers at Barclays would have had billions in loans.
Her remarks about being a mother were entirely accurate and contribute to her life experience and was valid in showing her breadth of experience.
Maybe she would have been on a steeper learning curve the May when it comes to the formalities of the PM's office but she does have a vision and optimism which May lacks but is needed in a leader.
May is more like Brown and will go missing in times of controversy, as she did in the referendum debate.
The Leadsom cv fiasco was as close to a swiftboating as I have seen in UK politics.
From Wiki:
The term swiftboating (also swift-boating or swift boating) is a pejorative American neologism used to describe an unfair or untrue political attack.
Osborne has to be moved away from CoE in view of his Project Fear comments. Maybe he could be a special envoy to boost exports to non EU countries - if he remembers which they are.
Hammond would be a safe pair of hands at number eleven but ythe person running the BREXIT Dept would need to be able to veto the CoE and the Business Secretary who could stymy new BREXIT arrangements with the EU.
@PickardJE: Remember theory that Burnham didn't resign as he wanted Corbynista support for Manchester-mayor bid?
Am told Momentum backing Tony Lloyd.
Missed out on a Nobel Peace Prize though.
Andrea won that......
I have closely followed the saga of Andrea Leadsom's CV and have also worked in banks and fund management companies.
I my view her CV was accurate. She was the corporate banking manager for Barings when it suffered the Leeson fraud, she did have a title of director at Barclays bank, as did very many others. She did have the titles she gave when at Invesco Perpetual.
It was one or two of her supporters who seem to have incorrectly interpreted what her roles were. For example, she was not responsible for managing billions of pounds of funds when she was at Invesco, although her financial customers at Barclays would have had billions in loans.
Her remarks about being a mother were entirely accurate and contribute to her life experience and was valid in showing her breadth of experience.
Maybe she would have been on a steeper learning curve the May when it comes to the formalities of the PM's office but she does have a vision and optimism which May lacks but is needed in a leader.
May is more like Brown and will go missing in times of controversy, as she did in the referendum debate.
The Leadsom cv fiasco was as close to a swiftboating as I have seen in UK politics.
From Wiki:
The term swiftboating (also swift-boating or swift boating) is a pejorative American neologism used to describe an unfair or untrue political attack.
''Because all the Brexiteers have run away and left the grown ups in charge...''
After Siemens volte face today its going to be fun poking your many false assertions up your backside in the next few months,
A bit of caution on the Siemens article, I haven't read the BBC one, but in the FT the CEO is quoted saying that the second round of investment which would tool the factory up for exports us still dependent on our single market status and how easily they could sell the carriages in the Netherlands and other European countries without coach building capacity.
Business people deal with the world as they find it. Trade will continue. The decisions are marginal ones about where to place investment.
No doubt, but part of the reason to aim for the 15% corporation tax would be to ameliorate any possible tariffs should we end up on WTO terms.
This question came up at Indyref. The idea was that Scotland would substitute for less access to the UK market by competitively reducing corporation tax. Similar to the approach adopted in Ireland. The consequence however would be a brutal cut in welfare because there would be less revenue (bear in mind this was still at peak oil). You wouldn't be able to substitute other taxes like income taxes on the wealthy because that would negate your corporation tax policy. Bear in mind also that the SNP and I think now Theresa May pitches to older people, public sector workers and those on modest incomes.
I don't how the numbers fall out at the UK level but I suspect the corporation tax reduction would have a noticeable effect on welfare.
A 1% cut to corporation tax costs £600m in lost receipts but that is offset by higher income tax receipts from job creation. The latter is not easy to estimate, I have it down as £250m, but its just a guess. Additionally there is a long term effect of boosting business creation and drawing in overseas companies. Those two tend to cancel each other out though. In real terms corporation tax receipts are about 4-5% lower than pre-2008 levels but the rate has dropped by a third and we've had record job creation in that time.
Presumably in the context of losing access to the Single Market, it would be about minimising job losses rather than job creation, at least in the short to medium term. May still be worth doing and welfare is then the cost of Brexit. Something has to give.
@PickardJE: Remember theory that Burnham didn't resign as he wanted Corbynista support for Manchester-mayor bid?
Am told Momentum backing Tony Lloyd.
Missed out on a Nobel Peace Prize though.
Andrea won that......
I have closely followed the saga of Andrea Leadsom's CV and have also worked in banks and fund management companies.
I my view her CV was accurate. She was the corporate banking manager for Barings when it suffered the Leeson fraud, she did have a title of director at Barclays bank, as did very many others. She did have the titles she gave when at Invesco Perpetual.
It was one or two of her supporters who seem to have incorrectly interpreted what her roles were. For example, she was not responsible for managing billions of pounds of funds when she was at Invesco, although her financial customers at Barclays would have had billions in loans.
Her remarks about being a mother were entirely accurate and contribute to her life experience and was valid in showing her breadth of experience.
Maybe she would have been on a steeper learning curve the May when it comes to the formalities of the PM's office but she does have a vision and optimism which May lacks but is needed in a leader.
May is more like Brown and will go missing in times of controversy, as she did in the referendum debate.
The Leadsom cv fiasco was as close to a swiftboating as I have seen in UK politics.
From Wiki:
The term swiftboating (also swift-boating or swift boating) is a pejorative American neologism used to describe an unfair or untrue political attack.
''Because all the Brexiteers have run away and left the grown ups in charge...''
After Siemens volte face today its going to be fun poking your many false assertions up your backside in the next few months,
A bit of caution on the Siemens article, I haven't read the BBC one, but in the FT the CEO is quoted saying that the second round of investment which would tool the factory up for exports us still dependent on our single market status and how easily they could sell the carriages in the Netherlands and other European countries without coach building capacity.
Business people deal with the world as they find it. Trade will continue. The decisions are marginal ones about where to place investment.
No doubt, but part of the reason to aim for the 15% corporation tax would be to ameliorate any possible tariffs should we end up on WTO terms.
This question came up at Indyref. The idea was that Scotland would substitute for less access to the UK market by competitively reducing corporation tax. Similar to the approach adopted in Ireland. The consequence however would be a brutal cut in welfare because there would be less revenue (bear in mind this was still at peak oil). You wouldn't be able to substitute other taxes like income taxes on the wealthy because that would negate your corporation tax policy. Bear in mind also that the SNP and I think now Theresa May pitches to older people, public sector workers and those on modest incomes.
I don't how the numbers fall out at the UK level but I suspect the corporation tax reduction would have a noticeable effect on welfare.
A 1% cut to corporation tax costs £600m in lost receipts but that is offset by higher income tax receipts from job creation. The latter is not easy to estimate, I have it down as £250m, but its just a guess. Additionally there is a long term effect of boosting business creation and drawing in overseas companies. Those two tend to cancel each other out though. In real terms corporation tax receipts are about 4-5% lower than pre-2008 levels but the rate has dropped by a third and we've had record job creation in that time.
Mr. Max, Job creation is all fine and dandy but does it not depend on the type of job and who fills it? A low paid job filled by someone from overseas whose income is topped up by the taxpayers does not actually add to the exchequer. A new job that is filled either by a local or a net taxpayer from anywhere does do so.
ythe person running the BREXIT Dept would need to be able to veto the CoE and the Business Secretary who could stymy new BREXIT arrangements with the EU.
Surely the only way to guarantee that is for the BREXIT dept to be headed by the PM?
I suspect the sole point of her candidacy is to facilitate a stitch-up from the NEC blocking Corbyn from the ballot. They need a "challenger" to appear to address that question.
Then she'll pull out, and let the real contenders emerge...
For those who lose the will to live wading through Me Me Mensch's tweets - a handy summary of her tour de force farce over the Tory Leadership election:
Presumably in the context of losing access to the Single Market, it would be about minimising job losses rather than job creation, at least in the short to medium term. May still be worth doing and welfare is then the cost of Brexit. Something has to give.
Well to some degree that is correct, but for example if a low tax rate convinced Siemens to make second round of investment here despite not being in the single market then that's jobs created. Obviously overall a lower corporate tax rate would have a neutral rather than positive effect given the uncertainty caused by leaving the single market, but it would be a long term gain. Especially if the government is committed to it rather than just using it as a temporary measure.
I was dredging it from memory - apologies for the inaccuracies and thanks for the corrections. I was pretty close though. (IIRC, didn't Louis XVI recall the Estates General in a final throw of the dice to stave off revolution?)
To stave off bankruptcy, in fact, which is why he and Calonne tried an 'Assembly of Notables' first. They refused to help so he had to call a full Estates. Then they got uppity and he tried to dissolve them by force, so they merged together to create the National Assembly. Finally, he tried to launch a coup against the Assembly having promised to cooperate, failed, panicked, fled Paris, was picked up at I think Varennes, brought back to Paris, tried for treason by the assembly, convicted, dethroned and executed. His accusers demanding execution sat on the left, his defenders (which was basically those who wanted him to abdicate instead) on the right. That is technically where it comes from.
Then the defenders were driven out and the accusers split into the Girondins and the Montagnards. But that's not really relevant!
French is quite a nice language to steal but my total lack of grammatical knowledge can make it tricky [the advantage of writing fantasy is that, if need be, I can claim Felarian is exactly like French except for the errors I make, which are in fact the way Felarians do things...].
Osborne has to be moved away from CoE in view of his Project Fear comments. Maybe he could be a special envoy to boost exports to non EU countries - if he remembers which they are.
Hammond would be a safe pair of hands at number eleven but ythe person running the BREXIT Dept would need to be able to veto the CoE and the Business Secretary who could stymy new BREXIT arrangements with the EU.
Makes sense to me, Mr. Evershed. In any event the Treasury needs to be put back in its box. After nearly twenty years of being run by political Chancellors who have used it for their own ends it has far too much power and has lost its original purpose.
Mr. Max, Job creation is all fine and dandy but does it not depend on the type of job and who fills it? A low paid job filled by someone from overseas whose income is topped up by the taxpayers does not actually add to the exchequer. A new job that is filled either by a local or a net taxpayer from anywhere does do so.
Of course, I've pointed out time and again that in working benefits and housing benefits have been rising despite record job creation. Both are because we have imported cheap unskilled labour from Europe who need massive subsidies to their cost of living. The only way to change the situation is to eliminate in working benefits and housing benefits. I fear that the government will never have the cojones to do it.
This NEC decision is just another place where the party has manouvred itself into a lose/lose situation.
Correct.
The same could be said of the PLP coup
and last years nominations by some in the PLP
and the paucity of Cooper/Kendalls/Burnhams policies
and the fact that all Blairite shortlists for 15 years has left us with a PLP out of touch with its core vote.
There is no solution that saves Labour IMO
Has a PLP ever been as out of touch with it's members as Labour is now ?
In the Labour party, the PLP is out of touch with the members and the original core working class voters. The Labour members are also out of touch with the working class voters. The working class voters are more in touch with UKIP policies. So no problem there then?
ythe person running the BREXIT Dept would need to be able to veto the CoE and the Business Secretary who could stymy new BREXIT arrangements with the EU.
Surely the only way to guarantee that is for the BREXIT dept to be headed by the PM?
That is what the Star Chamber is for - to resolve differences between the Departments.
French is quite a nice language to steal but my total lack of grammatical knowledge can make it tricky [the advantage of writing fantasy is that, if need be, I can claim Felarian is exactly like French except for the errors I make, which are in fact the way Felarians do things...].
@carldinnen: NEW; 3 Labour sources tell me the Leadership tried to remove Jonathan Ashworth from his NEC position today, but were blocked by the Shad Cab
@carldinnen: NEW; 3 Labour sources tell me the Leadership tried to remove Jonathan Ashworth from his NEC position today, but were blocked by the Shad Cab
Is there any way this could get more petty and ridiculous? Any at all?
Interesting France numbers there. Despite suffering two recent terrorist attacks and the largest muslim population in Western Europe they have a lower unfavourability rating than many countries and the same as the UK. Likewise, the 3rd largest Jewish population in the world, and only 10%, strange considering that Jews are fleeing France for Israel.
Surprised to see Roma score so high across the board though. Obviously they would be unfavourable but looking at that it is massively more so than against jews or muslims.
@carldinnen: NEW; 3 Labour sources tell me the Leadership tried to remove Jonathan Ashworth from his NEC position today, but were blocked by the Shad Cab
They aren't confident of winning the NEC vote are they.
Does it really take Burnham that long to put his flip flops on?
@georgeeaton: Andy Burnham is to call for three-four day delay to Labour leadership contest to allow further negotiations, I'm told.
To what end? Both sides have put their chips down. Neither can pick them up again without being humiliated. not that Burnham would necessarily understand that concept.
@carldinnen: NEW; 3 Labour sources tell me the Leadership tried to remove Jonathan Ashworth from his NEC position today, but were blocked by the Shad Cab
They aren't confident of winning the NEC vote are they.
Nope. Might well end up in the courts.
I hope Justice Sweeney is the judge.
Corbyn must hope his opponents don't hire Lord Grabiner.
@carldinnen: NEW; 3 Labour sources tell me the Leadership tried to remove Jonathan Ashworth from his NEC position today, but were blocked by the Shad Cab
They aren't confident of winning the NEC vote are they.
Meanwhile Boundary changes to be announced in September.
Afternoon all. Just dropping in on holiday to check that nothing much was happening, any ideas when the ballots will be sent out for those of us voting for the next Tory leader?
if a low tax rate convinced Siemens to make second round of investment here despite not being in the single market then that's jobs created.
Not necessarily because we are talking about overall net jobs. Jobs are created and lost all the time. It's only "obs created" if Siemens and similar companies invested more than they would otherwise have done and this over compensates for jobs lost.
Brexit shouldn't affect the decision to reduce Corporation Tax beyond any constraints imposed on us by membership of the EU or EEA. It's about how many more jobs would be created (minus any losses) versus maintaining the tax take for all the public services and welfare that we like.
Does it really take Burnham that long to put his flip flops on?
@georgeeaton: Andy Burnham is to call for three-four day delay to Labour leadership contest to allow further negotiations, I'm told.
To what end? Both sides have put their chips down. Neither can pick them up again without being humiliated. not that Burnham would necessarily understand that concept.
I think the peace deal is Corbyn stands down, the PLP agree to nominate one of McDonnell or Lewis and agree that Jez and McDonnell will stay on in the shadow cabinet.
It is extremely concerning that Angela Eagle has been the victim of a threatening act and that other MPs are receiving abuse and threats. As someone who has also received death threats this week and previously, I am calling on all Labour Party members and supporters to act with calm and treat each other with respect and dignity, even where there is disagreement. I utterly condemn any violence or threats, which undermine the democracy within our party and have no place in our politics.
Mr. Simon, whilst I agree, the right is not immune to such daftness (see Baroness Warsi).
when i first speed read that I thought you said Barons Wars. I thought that was a long way to go back. not sure there was much of a left and right in that constitutional crisis, although europe could be claimed to be the cause. when did left and right start being used in the modern political sense?
French revolution, I believe. It was something like that in the Estates General, the (reactionary) clergy and aristocracy sat to the right of the Speaker and the representatives of the people (more progressive) sat to the left.
Technically it was the National Assembly not the Estates General. But yes, that's where it comes from.
I was dredging it from memory - apologies for the inaccuracies and thanks for the corrections. I was pretty close though. (IIRC, didn't Louis XVI recall the Estates General in a final throw of the dice to stave off revolution?)
too many louis'! i'm already trying to get my head round how the louis in The Musketeers is related to the louis in Versailles (apologies for my low brow TV taste). I think they are father and son.
It is extremely concerning that Angela Eagle has been the victim of a threatening act and that other MPs are receiving abuse and threats. As someone who has also received death threats this week and previously, I am calling on all Labour Party members and supporters to act with calm and treat each other with respect and dignity, even where there is disagreement. I utterly condemn any violence or threats, which undermine the democracy within our party and have no place in our politics.
Does it really take Burnham that long to put his flip flops on?
@georgeeaton: Andy Burnham is to call for three-four day delay to Labour leadership contest to allow further negotiations, I'm told.
To what end? Both sides have put their chips down. Neither can pick them up again without being humiliated. not that Burnham would necessarily understand that concept.
I think the peace deal is Corbyn stands down, the PLP agree to nominate one of McDonnell or Lewis and agree that Jez and McDonnell will stay on in the shadow cabinet.
IF the NEC block Corbyn this is going to happen, because suddenly he has to enter into negotiations.
Does it really take Burnham that long to put his flip flops on?
@georgeeaton: Andy Burnham is to call for three-four day delay to Labour leadership contest to allow further negotiations, I'm told.
To what end? Both sides have put their chips down. Neither can pick them up again without being humiliated. not that Burnham would necessarily understand that concept.
I think the peace deal is Corbyn stands down, the PLP agree to nominate one of McDonnell or Lewis and agree that Jez and McDonnell will stay on in the shadow cabinet.
Sounds about right. The only way to settle this, really.
It is extremely concerning that Angela Eagle has been the victim of a threatening act and that other MPs are receiving abuse and threats. As someone who has also received death threats this week and previously, I am calling on all Labour Party members and supporters to act with calm and treat each other with respect and dignity, even where there is disagreement. I utterly condemn any violence or threats, which undermine the democracy within our party and have no place in our politics.
Classic Corbyn. Unable to say something is unacceptable without also mentioning some other bad thing.
Does it really take Burnham that long to put his flip flops on?
@georgeeaton: Andy Burnham is to call for three-four day delay to Labour leadership contest to allow further negotiations, I'm told.
To what end? Both sides have put their chips down. Neither can pick them up again without being humiliated. not that Burnham would necessarily understand that concept.
I think the peace deal is Corbyn stands down, the PLP agree to nominate one of McDonnell or Lewis and agree that Jez and McDonnell will stay on in the shadow cabinet.
Does it really take Burnham that long to put his flip flops on?
@georgeeaton: Andy Burnham is to call for three-four day delay to Labour leadership contest to allow further negotiations, I'm told.
To what end? Both sides have put their chips down. Neither can pick them up again without being humiliated. not that Burnham would necessarily understand that concept.
I think the peace deal is Corbyn stands down, the PLP agree to nominate one of McDonnell or Lewis and agree that Jez and McDonnell will stay on in the shadow cabinet.
Sounds about right. The only way to settle this, really.
Does it really take Burnham that long to put his flip flops on?
@georgeeaton: Andy Burnham is to call for three-four day delay to Labour leadership contest to allow further negotiations, I'm told.
To what end? Both sides have put their chips down. Neither can pick them up again without being humiliated. not that Burnham would necessarily understand that concept.
I think the peace deal is Corbyn stands down, the PLP agree to nominate one of McDonnell or Lewis and agree that Jez and McDonnell will stay on in the shadow cabinet.
A good way out of the farce, I've got over a thousand reasons to agree with this.
if a low tax rate convinced Siemens to make second round of investment here despite not being in the single market then that's jobs created.
Not necessarily because we are talking about overall net jobs. Jobs are created and lost all the time. It's only "obs created" if Siemens and similar companies invested more than they would otherwise have done and this over compensates for jobs lost.
Brexit shouldn't affect the decision to reduce Corporation Tax beyond any constraints imposed on us by membership of the EU or EEA. It's about how many more jobs would be created (minus any losses) versus maintaining the tax take for all the public services and welfare that we like.
That was my point, a lower corporation tax rate can tip investment decisions into a more favourable position. Overall given rational markets enough decisions will move into a more favourable position that could result in no net loss of jobs. However, given the tougher overall conditions for exports in the WTO (at least in the short term) we wouldn't get the income tax gains from higher employment levels. We may still benefit from higher levels of incoming business though, but that's a difficult calculation.
It is extremely concerning that Angela Eagle has been the victim of a threatening act and that other MPs are receiving abuse and threats. As someone who has also received death threats this week and previously, I am calling on all Labour Party members and supporters to act with calm and treat each other with respect and dignity, even where there is disagreement. I utterly condemn any violence or threats, which undermine the democracy within our party and have no place in our politics.
Utterly shameful behaviour - and the leadership race looks set to run for several weeks more!
Afternoon all. Just dropping in on holiday to check that nothing much was happening, any ideas when the ballots will be sent out for those of us voting for the next Tory leader?
Mr. Simon, whilst I agree, the right is not immune to such daftness (see Baroness Warsi).
when i first speed read that I thought you said Barons Wars. I thought that was a long way to go back. not sure there was much of a left and right in that constitutional crisis, although europe could be claimed to be the cause. when did left and right start being used in the modern political sense?
French revolution, I believe. It was something like that in the Estates General, the (reactionary) clergy and aristocracy sat to the right of the Speaker and the representatives of the people (more progressive) sat to the left.
Technically it was the National Assembly not the Estates General. But yes, that's where it comes from.
I was dredging it from memory - apologies for the inaccuracies and thanks for the corrections. I was pretty close though. (IIRC, didn't Louis XVI recall the Estates General in a final throw of the dice to stave off revolution?)
too many louis'! i'm already trying to get my head round how the louis in The Musketeers is related to the louis in Versailles (apologies for my low brow TV taste). I think they are father and son.
Yes. Dying Musketeer king is father the Versailles king (or, Versailles king is the little Dauphin in Musketeers).
That is all within 24 hours of her starting the challenge. It will only get worse.
Welcome to the Momentum way of working
Imagine what GE campaign will be like....
Very, very ugly
My uncle-in-law is a serious "red" and so my Facebook gets seriously clogged up with his "likes" and "shares", most of which at the moment are all pro-Momentum, pro-Corbyn and anti-Eagle (or anyone else who dares to challenge). I find it fascinating to see how deranged most of his "shared" posts are, but there is definitely a disturbingly nasty and aggressive tone to the anti-Eagle postings. Really quite shocking how these serious leftie halfwits behave - and if their deeds match their words, then I'm not surprised there are bricks and abusive phonecalls.
I almost feel sorry for the mostly moderate mainstream core of the Labour Party in the country at large and in the PLP for being taken over by this cancer. (Although I played my part in it as a £3 Tory voting for Corbyn for a laugh - what did I contribute to...?!)
For those who expressed an interest in my views on the Chilcott report, it seems that Vernon Bogdanor has published them in a letter to the FT. Should I sue him for copyright infringement?
@carldinnen: NEW; 3 Labour sources tell me the Leadership tried to remove Jonathan Ashworth from his NEC position today, but were blocked by the Shad Cab
This will be the new Shadow Cabinet, blocking the will of the Leadership that just appointed them all? Hur hur hur.....when are they going to be sacked?
just seen a photo. Bloody hell, that's a horrible one. The death toll will almost certainly be very high. That front carriage is completely smashed.
Signal failure of some sort, surely? A second Abermule maybe.
According to the article, it was two four-coach trains. Only four coaches seem fully intact afterwards, a fifth badly damaged, with perhaps a sixth covered with debris. As for the other two ...
There's a clever lawyer somewhere who thinks the NEC can tear up the rules "by consent", and impose new ones, and that might be more copper-bottomed, legally, than wrongly-construing the existing rules.
'Clause II. Procedural rules for elections for national officers of the Party
1. General A. The following procedures provide a rules framework which, unless varied by the consent of the NEC, shall be followed when conducting elections for Party officers.'
[all the widely-discussed clauses then follow]
I had to point out what I think "consent" means...
Comments
'I have closely followed the saga of Andrea Leadsom's CV and have also worked in banks and fund management companies.
I my view her CV was accurate. She was the corporate banking manager for Barings when it suffered the Leeson fraud, she did have a title of director at Barclays bank, as did very many others. She did have the titles she gave when at Invesco Perpetual.
It was one or two of her supporters who seem to have incorrectly interpreted what her roles were. For example, she was not responsible for managing billions of pounds of funds when she was at Invesco, although her financial customers at Barclays would have had billions in loans.
Her remarks about being a mother were entirely accurate and contribute to her life experience and was valid in showing her breadth of experience.
Maybe she would have been on a steeper learning curve the May when it comes to the formalities of the PM's office but she does have a vision and optimism which May lacks but is needed in a leader.
May is more like Brown and will go missing in times of controversy, as she did in the referendum debate. '
Spot on, strange though when Cooper's team made the same comments about childless Kendall last year, we didn't get the outrage bit on this site.
She corrected her misleading CV, just ask Robert what his reaction would be if he had hired someone who claimed what Andrea Leadsom had on her CV but in reality had Andrea Leadsom's actual lesser experience.
Sheeesh, some of you guys need to move on.
http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/angela-eagle-office-attack-live-11601968
Bricks, abusive phone calls, Eagle cancels a meeting due to threats...
I don't how the numbers fall out at the UK level but I suspect the corporation tax reduction would have a noticeable effect on welfare.
Welcome to the Momentum way of working
Yes. She is too cautious.
I was surprised to see her voting record on Victoria Derbyshire earlier. Voted against tuition fees in opposition and for them in govt too.
If you look at tw8tter, it is still going on.
If Corbyn goes, Labour are probably screwed. Momentum will undermine whoever succeeds him.
The only remote hope is that Labour finds someone new and acceptable to both sides. Because this has gone on so long, there is less than 1% chance of that happening.
The term swiftboating (also swift-boating or swift boating) is a pejorative American neologism used to describe an unfair or untrue political attack.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiftboating
Where were the untruths?
In Leadsom's CV and the claims of her supporters?
Or in the criticisms of her CV?
Hammond would be a safe pair of hands at number eleven but ythe person running the BREXIT Dept would need to be able to veto the CoE and the Business Secretary who could stymy new BREXIT arrangements with the EU.
Has Angela Eagle decided to step down yet?
https://twitter.com/jolyonmaugham/status/752824496122372097
http://evolvepolitics.com/angela-eagle-may-pull-leadership-race-corbyn-ballot/
I suspect the sole point of her candidacy is to facilitate a stitch-up from the NEC blocking Corbyn from the ballot. They need a "challenger" to appear to address that question.
Then she'll pull out, and let the real contenders emerge...
A decoy duck.
http://zelo-street.blogspot.co.id/2016/07/leadsom-curse-of-mensch.html
Excellent news for the Tories
Then the defenders were driven out and the accusers split into the Girondins and the Montagnards. But that's not really relevant!
@georgeeaton: Andy Burnham is to call for three-four day delay to Labour leadership contest to allow further negotiations, I'm told.
So no problem there then?
Surprised to see Roma score so high across the board though. Obviously they would be unfavourable but looking at that it is massively more so than against jews or muslims.
I hope Justice Sweeney is the judge.
Corbyn must hope his opponents don't hire Lord Grabiner.
Oh...
There's been a terrible train crash in Italy:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36774059
On other points: congratulations to Ms Free's son, and best wishes to Mr Meeks and his other half.
Brexit shouldn't affect the decision to reduce Corporation Tax beyond any constraints imposed on us by membership of the EU or EEA. It's about how many more jobs would be created (minus any losses) versus maintaining the tax take for all the public services and welfare that we like.
Labour Press
Statement from Jeremy Corbyn
It is extremely concerning that Angela Eagle has been the victim of a threatening act and that other MPs are receiving abuse and threats. As someone who has also received death threats this week and previously, I am calling on all Labour Party members and supporters to act with calm and treat each other with respect and dignity, even where there is disagreement. I utterly condemn any violence or threats, which undermine the democracy within our party and have no place in our politics.
First round:
Candidate Votes Percentage
Tom Watson 160,852 39.4%
Stella Creasy 78,100 19.1%
Angela Eagle 66,013 16.2%
Caroline Flint 64,425 15.8%
Ben Bradshaw 39,080 9.6%
It's the only way out of this.
Signal failure of some sort, surely? A second Abermule maybe.
https://excelpope.wordpress.com/2016/07/12/vested-interest/
@Labour_Insider
From what we hear NEC will vote for Corbyn to get on ballot by a majority of 3.
Looks too close to call
If it sounds your cup of tea, my books are up here: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Thaddeus-White/e/B008C6RU98/
Incidentally, it sounds like Explorations (sci-fi anthology with a short story by me) will be out August/September.
I almost feel sorry for the mostly moderate mainstream core of the Labour Party in the country at large and in the PLP for being taken over by this cancer. (Although I played my part in it as a £3 Tory voting for Corbyn for a laugh - what did I contribute to...?!)
Are you sweating
The Brexit posters are vying to be Private Schuman...
https://next.ft.com/content/5fdfa8ba-450d-11e6-9b66-0712b3873ae1
'Clause II.
Procedural rules for elections for national officers of the Party
1. General
A. The following procedures provide a rules framework which, unless varied by the consent of the NEC, shall be followed when conducting elections for Party officers.'
[all the widely-discussed clauses then follow]
I had to point out what I think "consent" means...