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    LowlanderLowlander Posts: 941
    Argclu's leadership bid was a farce for over a week while she hummed and hawed about actually standing.

    Yet now she has actually put up, its got worse than the farce it was before. It seems her campaign is a total disaster, even her local paper is making fun of her now.

    http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/watch-angela-eagles-awkward-moment-11601221

    And while the deselection process rolls out in her constituency, it seems the headline morning interview on the day after her launch was with... Good Morning Scotland.

    Things really are beyond The Thick Of It in UK politics. Her platform is being a credible, competent leader but she can't even credibly or competently launch a campaign to be leader.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,726
    Heart of stone time

    @PickardJE: Remember theory that Burnham didn't resign as he wanted Corbynista support for Manchester-mayor bid?

    Am told Momentum backing Tony Lloyd.
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    JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807



    It isbelieve, the workers to revolt. Seriously.

    I don't think that's right - it is as much the product of caricature as the lefties who think that anyone vaguely worried about immigration is a Nazi. Of course there are a few nutters around who thinkas you describe, but the normal left-wing view is simply to get the policies right as first priority, and then try to win an election: sooner or later you succeed.

    The normal centrist view is to prioritise winning an election and then put through some nice policies. That's something I supported with Tony Blair - there were so many obvious things that needed doing from Northern Ireland to NHS funding to minimum wage to civil partnerships that it was plenty to be going on with. What I'm missing from the current centrist challenge is any sense that they have further interesting policies in mind. Seeking to win for the sake of winning is not in keeping with the spirit of democracy either.

    It's great that you don't think that there's too much that obviously needs sorting out right now, Nick. From where I sit I see a country that has just taken a monumental decision and a new Prime Minister who has yet to share with us her Brexit vision and who will need to be held to account for the deal that does end up being done. I also see millions of voters on the verge of giving up on Labour forever, a creaking infrastructure, the Union in peril, massive inequality and a housing crisis. I also see a Labour leader incapable of connecting with non-believers, and actually unwilling to try to do so.

    The simple fact is that in a Parliamentary democracy the leader of a Parliamentary party has to command the confidence of the party he/she leads in Parliament. I am afraid that there is absolutely no getting around this. However, the leader of a party that just so happens to have MPs is not in that position. And that is where Labour is heading: a large movement of like-minded people that just so happens to have a few MPs but does not actually aspire to govern.

    I have no doubt that most Labour members are not hard left fanatics, but in choosing to follow the extra-Parliamentary route they are doing exactly as the hard left wants them to do. People who worry about immigration are not Nazis, but people who worry about immigration and do not call out Nazis and turn a blind eye to them because of their anti-immigration views are very much part of the problem.
    Whenever anyone raises the key question that the LEADER DOES NOT COMMAND HIS OWN MPS Nick answers another question. It really is a sight to behold.
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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    John_M said:

    Poor Tyson. If only he knew that he's holed up in Europe's biggest nest of racists. He'd be horrified I'm sure.
    :wink:
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    nunu said:

    It was project fear afterall:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36771595

    Terrible news for REMAIN BSE shysters.
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,380
    Pulpstar said:

    If you want a 40% return in a little over 24 hours

    Re tomorrow's PMQs

    Corbyn to stand and applaud Cameron 7/4

    Corbyn not to stand and applaud Cameron 2/5

    https://sports.ladbrokes.com/en-gb/betting/politics/british/prime-ministers-questions/cameron-pmq-specials/222322838/

    I think Corbyn will give a fullsome speech with praise and critisicm of David Cameron, but there is not a 30% chance of him actually applauding - has he ever applauded anyone as its not his style.

    £20 on for me.
    Absolutely, that's a great spot. He doesn't even do fulsome. He does polite and mildly witty. He would think it inappropriate if MPs applauded himself, not that he needs to worry too much about that.
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    JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807
    taffys said:

    ''All those WWC Leavers who voted primarily on immigration are going to be mighty disappointed if Freedom of Movement is retained, and presumably even more so if there's an increase in 'commonwealth' immigration if FoM is dispensed with. ''

    May's answer appears to be socialism in the boardroom.

    The tories have taken the easy way out. As Lord Tebbit writes today - they will pay, big time.

    Usually the wise betting strategy is to take what Lord Tebbit says, then bet against it.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    Terrible news

    Why are you talking Britain down?
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    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753

    nunu said:

    It was project fear afterall:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36771595

    Terrible news for REMAIN BSE shysters.
    The currency is rallying big time today.

    Another outrageous remainer piece of cr8p .
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    taffys said:

    The currency is rallying big time today.

    Because all the Brexiteers have run away and left the grown ups in charge...
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    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    Anchor on Sky has difficulty with Merseyside place names.

    Wallasley...

    I think she's the one who also says Knowlsley...
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,726
    From David Allen Green, who knows his stuff

    As someone who has litigated re clubs and societies I can say helpfully: a court could go either way on the leadership nominations issue.

    If the NEC got decent advice and framed issue as "all candidates being treated equally", a court will probably not intervene.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,726
    taffys said:

    nunu said:

    It was project fear afterall:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36771595

    Terrible news for REMAIN BSE shysters.
    The currency is rallying big time today.

    Another outrageous remainer piece of cr8p .
    That's because a Remainer is about to become a PM, not a Burnhamweight Leaver
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    SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    Corbyn’s “kinder, gentler politics”. ?
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    paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,461

    Mr. Simon, whilst I agree, the right is not immune to such daftness (see Baroness Warsi).

    when i first speed read that I thought you said Barons Wars. I thought that was a long way to go back. not sure there was much of a left and right in that constitutional crisis, although europe could be claimed to be the cause. when did left and right start being used in the modern political sense?
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    John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    edited July 2016
    More seriously, I think we come out of this quite well.

    Or rather, if the argument is that the Brits are a bunch of racist, xenophobic, islamophobic, nativists (have I covered all the epithets from EUref?), then what the hell are the rest of Europe? The antisemitic sentiments are particularly worrying.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,874
    taffys said:

    ''Not as desperate as Leadsom....''

    It's going to be great having remain tories defend May in the next few months. Really great.

    Its going to be much easier than BREXITERs (who haven't run away) trying to defend Leadsom......titter....
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    edited July 2016
    @britainelects: London // On a second EU referendum:
    Support: 40%
    Oppose: 46%
    (via YouGov)
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    Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,060
    Best wishes to the anti-frank household & for a full and speedy recovery.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @PickardJE: Labour NEC is really split on leadership rules: Some estimate 17:15 for Corbyn. Others say 16:16. Or anti-Corbyn majority if secret ballot.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,667

    taffys said:

    nunu said:

    It was project fear afterall:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36771595

    Terrible news for REMAIN BSE shysters.
    The currency is rallying big time today.

    Another outrageous remainer piece of cr8p .
    That's because a Remainer is about to become a PM, not a Burnhamweight Leaver
    To some degree, but to a greater degree because the markets are now pricing in a smaller or no cut to interest rates.
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    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737

    From David Allen Green, who knows his stuff

    As someone who has litigated re clubs and societies I can say helpfully: a court could go either way on the leadership nominations issue.

    If the NEC got decent advice and framed issue as "all candidates being treated equally", a court will probably not intervene.

    It would be helpful it he could back that up with a case. We're not talking about fuzzy generalities here, but very specific procedures to which the courts have to give their proper construction.
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    JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807

    Heart of stone time

    @PickardJE: Remember theory that Burnham didn't resign as he wanted Corbynista support for Manchester-mayor bid?

    Am told Momentum backing Tony Lloyd.

    LOL
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,667
    All 7% of Britain's anti-Semites have joined Corbyn's Labour.
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    Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664

    From David Allen Green, who knows his stuff

    As someone who has litigated re clubs and societies I can say helpfully: a court could go either way on the leadership nominations issue.

    If the NEC got decent advice and framed issue as "all candidates being treated equally", a court will probably not intervene.

    The appeal to one's own authority never looks great to me.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,031
    Mr. 64, I believe left and right comes from the old French court (or parliament, modern history isn't my thing) based on the seating arrangements.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,667
    edited July 2016
    Also, lol at Reek. John "Ramsay" McIRA played his game very nicely. I wonder whether the NEC will feed him to the dogs.
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    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    ''Because all the Brexiteers have run away and left the grown ups in charge...''

    After Siemens volte face today its going to be fun poking your many false assertions up your backside in the next few months,
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,464
    Scott_P said:

    @PickardJE: Remember theory that Burnham didn't resign as he wanted Corbynista support for Manchester-mayor bid?

    Am told Momentum backing Tony Lloyd.

    Like Austen Chamberlain, Andy Burnham has always played the game and always lost it.

    Missed out on a Nobel Peace Prize though.
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    grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    Core Group Jellyfish is my safe word.
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    JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807
    RodCrosby said:

    From David Allen Green, who knows his stuff

    As someone who has litigated re clubs and societies I can say helpfully: a court could go either way on the leadership nominations issue.

    If the NEC got decent advice and framed issue as "all candidates being treated equally", a court will probably not intervene.

    It would be helpful it he could back that up with a case. We're not talking about fuzzy generalities here, but very specific procedures to which the courts have to give their proper construction.
    You are obsessed with this. I wonder why?
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,874

    Scott_P said:

    @PickardJE: Remember theory that Burnham didn't resign as he wanted Corbynista support for Manchester-mayor bid?

    Am told Momentum backing Tony Lloyd.

    Missed out on a Nobel Peace Prize though.
    Andrea won that......
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    taffys said:

    After Siemens volte face today its going to be fun poking your many false assertions up your backside in the next few months,

    £350m a week for the NHS...

    There's a phrase for this. Ah, yes, Suck it Up!

    You won! No excuse for miserableness now.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,667
    taffys said:

    ''Because all the Brexiteers have run away and left the grown ups in charge...''

    After Siemens volte face today its going to be fun poking your many false assertions up your backside in the next few months,

    A bit of caution on the Siemens article, I haven't read the BBC one, but in the FT the CEO is quoted saying that the second round of investment which would tool the factory up for exports us still dependent on our single market status and how easily they could sell the carriages in the Netherlands and other European countries without coach building capacity.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,874
    MaxPB said:

    All 7% of Britain's anti-Semites have joined Corbyn's Labour.
    Dear old Blighty's numbers aren't too bad compared to our peers....but what is it still with Jews in some countries?
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    JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807
    The NEC is going to bottle it. And that will be the end of the party. I said it last night. I say it again.
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    eekeek Posts: 25,100

    I'd just like to put a short post up explaining why I'm not going to be around much for quite a while.

    At the weekend my other half had a very bad fall. He had to have a blood clot removed from the brain and a large piece of his skull removed. He remains in critical care, though he has made some progress. It is going to be a long road ahead. As a result, my responsibilities lie elsewhere for the foreseeable future.

    I wish you all well, and I mean all, and I will be dropping by from time to time to see what's going on. Apologies if I don't reply to messages - any rudeness on this occasion will be accidental.

    Best wishes..

    My brother had the same thing 25 years ago and was fine within a couple of months. The one thing I remember was the surgeon going through the risks (as they have to). The conversation went:-

    The main risk to the operation is epilepsy - he already has that so you've got nothing to wory about...
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,031
    edited July 2016
    Mr. Herdson, as Queen said "It's so easy... when you know the rules."

    Edited extra bit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_5O-nUiZ_0
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    grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    This NEC decision is just another place where the party has manouvred itself into a lose/lose situation.
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    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    Scott_P said:

    taffys said:

    After Siemens volte face today its going to be fun poking your many false assertions up your backside in the next few months,

    £350m a week for the NHS...

    There's a phrase for this. Ah, yes, Suck it Up!

    You won! No excuse for miserableness now.
    After my posts today it probably is time for a cup of tea and a lie down...
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,464

    Mr. Simon, whilst I agree, the right is not immune to such daftness (see Baroness Warsi).

    when i first speed read that I thought you said Barons Wars. I thought that was a long way to go back. not sure there was much of a left and right in that constitutional crisis, although europe could be claimed to be the cause. when did left and right start being used in the modern political sense?
    French revolution, I believe. It was something like that in the Estates General, the (reactionary) clergy and aristocracy sat to the right of the Speaker and the representatives of the people (more progressive) sat to the left.
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,464
    John_M said:

    More seriously, I think we come out of this quite well.

    Or rather, if the argument is that the Brits are a bunch of racist, xenophobic, islamophobic, nativists (have I covered all the epithets from EUref?), then what the hell are the rest of Europe? The antisemitic sentiments are particularly worrying.
    Well, you can see why Golden Dawn polls so well.
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,987
    John_M said:

    More seriously, I think we come out of this quite well.

    Or rather, if the argument is that the Brits are a bunch of racist, xenophobic, islamophobic, nativists (have I covered all the epithets from EUref?), then what the hell are the rest of Europe? The antisemitic sentiments are particularly worrying.

    Yep, we are not perfect and there are clearly issues in the UK, but let's not fall into the trap of believing that the Brexit vote shows us to be out on a limb and a lot more xenophobic and racist than our neighbours. Clearly we are not - we are among the best places in Europe to be in a minority. The southern European numbers are awful. But having lived in Spain I am not surprised.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Jobabob said:

    The NEC is going to bottle it. And that will be the end of the party. I said it last night. I say it again.

    There seem to be reports of at least 4 competing legal opinions at the meeting. Whatever they decide today will probably be heading for the courts.

    Meanwhile the new PM will be getting on with things...
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,587
    Jobabob said:



    It isbelieve, the workers to revolt. Seriously.

    I don't think that's right - it is aies in mind. Seeking to win for the sake of winning is not in keeping with the spirit of democracy either.

    It's great that you don't think that there's too much that obviously needs sorting out right now, Nick. a Labour leader incapable of connecting with non-believers, and actually unwilling to try to do so.

    The simple fact is that in a Parliamentary democracy the leader of a Parliamentary party has to command the confidence of the party he/she leads in Parliament. I am afraid that there is absolutely no getting around this. However, the leader of a party that just so happens to have MPs is not in that position. And that is where Labour is heading: a large movement of like-minded people that just so happens to have a few MPs but does not actually aspire to govern.

    I have no doubt that most Labour members are not hard left fanatics, but in choosing to follow the extra-Parliamentary route they are doing exactly as the hard left wants them to do. People who worry about immigration are not Nazis, but people who worry about immigration and do not call out Nazis and turn a blind eye to them because of their anti-immigration views are very much part of the problem.
    Whenever anyone raises the key question that the LEADER DOES NOT COMMAND HIS OWN MPS Nick answers another question. It really is a sight to behold.
    But this is all bald men and a comb stuff. Labour is a monolithic anti-pluralist Political machine tied to the unions that was formed to advance a class interest that is more or less irrelevant in the 21st century. As the world has changed it has tried to adapt by finding new interest groups to champion, which has put it increasingly at odds with its original support base. Labour politicians see the world through the prism of collectivism and putting together a coalition of interest groups to deliver a majority, whilst the forces in society move the other way towards individualism and fragmentation. Their whole approach to poltics is wrong. That they have arrived at Eagle as the answer to Corbyn when her only relative asset is being marginally more persuasive in presentational skills within Parliament but has no clear policy platform and indeed few significant differences from Corbyn says it all.

    I am coming to the view that those who want an alternative to never-ending Tory rule should be turning their minds to how we get the Labour Party to collapse as rapidly as possible.
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,464

    Has Cameron set the record for the shortest time between winning an overall majority for his party at a GE and resigning as prime minister?

    I think Andrew Bonar Law has that record (election in Nov 22 resigned May 23)
    Bonar Law was nearly dead at the time though!
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @rowenamason: Ukip has picked up more than 1,000 new members since Leadsom withdrawal (despite having a few leadership probs of its own). Usual = 20 a day
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    JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807

    This NEC decision is just another place where the party has manouvred itself into a lose/lose situation.

    If Corbyn is asked to find noms, the party lives on. If not, it splits. It really is that simple.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,036
    IanB2 said:

    Jobabob said:



    It isbelieve, the workers to revolt. Seriously.

    I don't think that's right - it is aies in mind. Seeking to win for the sake of winning is not in keeping with the spirit of democracy either.

    It's great that you don't think that there's too much that obviously needs sorting out right now, Nick. a Labour leader incapable of connecting with non-believers, and actually unwilling to try to do so.

    The simple fact is that in a Parliamentary democracy the leader of a Parliamentary party has to command the confidence of the party he/she leads in Parliament. I am afraid that there is absolutely no getting around this. However, the leader of a party that just so happens to have MPs is not in that position. And that is where Labour is heading: a large movement of like-minded people that just so happens to have a few MPs but does not actually aspire to govern.

    I have no doubt that most Labour members are not hard left fanatics, but in choosing to follow the extra-Parliamentary route they are doing exactly as the hard left wants them to do. People who worry about immigration are not Nazis, but people who worry about immigration and do not call out Nazis and turn a blind eye to them because of their anti-immigration views are very much part of the problem.
    Whenever anyone raises the key question that the LEADER DOES NOT COMMAND HIS OWN MPS Nick answers another question. It really is a sight to behold.
    But this is all bald men and a comb stuff. Labour is a monolithic anti-pluralist Political machine tied to the unions that was formed to advance a class interest that is more or less irrelevant in the 21st century. As the world has changed it has tried to adapt by finding new interest groups to champion, which has put it increasingly at odds with its original support base. Labour politicians see the world through the prism of collectivism and putting together a coalition of interest groups to deliver a majority, whilst the forces in society move the other way towards individualism and fragmentation. Their whole approach to poltics is wrong. That they have arrived at Eagle as the answer to Corbyn when her only relative asset is being marginally more persuasive in presentational skills within Parliament but has no clear policy platform and indeed few significant differences from Corbyn says it all.

    I am coming to the view that those who want an alternative to never-ending Tory rule should be turning their minds to how we get the Labour Party to collapse as rapidly as possible.
    :+1:
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,031
    Mr. Herdson, nearly dead? Shapur II became king before he was even born.
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    oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,831
    Jobabob said:

    This NEC decision is just another place where the party has manouvred itself into a lose/lose situation.

    If Corbyn is asked to find noms, the party lives on. If not, it splits. It really is that simple.
    No. There is a split coming either way. Momentum won't give up if Corbyn isn't automatically on the ballot. They will fight and fight hard.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,036
    Scott_P said:

    @rowenamason: Ukip has picked up more than 1,000 new members since Leadsom withdrawal (despite having a few leadership probs of its own). Usual = 20 a day

    UKIP doesn't really have a leadership problem. Woolfe will be in charge, providing great puns for twitter users everywhere.
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    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    John_M said:
    Quite right too. There is some really sinister shit going off in the Labour party, that you might have thought would only be found on the C'mmittee down the Wheeltappers & Shunters...
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    LowlanderLowlander Posts: 941
    Jobabob said:

    This NEC decision is just another place where the party has manouvred itself into a lose/lose situation.

    If Corbyn is asked to find noms, the party lives on. If not, it splits. It really is that simple.
    It doesn't look good for Labour then.

    http://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/a-582d-Corbyn-should-have-NEC-vote-wrapped-up#.V4TOL_krJ9O

    21 - 12 for Corbyn.
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    MontyHallMontyHall Posts: 226
    edited July 2016
    Jobabob said:

    taffys said:

    ''All those WWC Leavers who voted primarily on immigration are going to be mighty disappointed if Freedom of Movement is retained, and presumably even more so if there's an increase in 'commonwealth' immigration if FoM is dispensed with. ''

    May's answer appears to be socialism in the boardroom.

    The tories have taken the easy way out. As Lord Tebbit writes today - they will pay, big time.

    Usually the wise betting strategy is to take what Lord Tebbit says, then bet against it.
    He was saying the momentum was with Leave while you were declaring 'the UK will not vote to leave the EU'
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    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,932

    This NEC decision is just another place where the party has manouvred itself into a lose/lose situation.

    Correct.

    The same could be said of the PLP coup

    and last years nominations by some in the PLP

    and the paucity of Cooper/Kendalls/Burnhams policies

    and the fact that all Blairite shortlists for 15 years has left us with a PLP out of touch with its core vote.

    There is no solution that saves Labour IMO
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    JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807
    MontyHall said:

    Jobabob said:

    taffys said:

    ''All those WWC Leavers who voted primarily on immigration are going to be mighty disappointed if Freedom of Movement is retained, and presumably even more so if there's an increase in 'commonwealth' immigration if FoM is dispensed with. ''

    May's answer appears to be socialism in the boardroom.

    The tories have taken the easy way out. As Lord Tebbit writes today - they will pay, big time.

    Usually the wise betting strategy is to take what Lord Tebbit says, then bet against it.
    He was saying the momentum was with Leave while you were declaring 'the UK will not vote to leave the EU'
    I changed my mind. I bet accordingly. I won quite a bit on the referendum.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,036
    What time is the vote ?
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    paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,461

    Mr. Simon, whilst I agree, the right is not immune to such daftness (see Baroness Warsi).

    when i first speed read that I thought you said Barons Wars. I thought that was a long way to go back. not sure there was much of a left and right in that constitutional crisis, although europe could be claimed to be the cause. when did left and right start being used in the modern political sense?
    French revolution, I believe. It was something like that in the Estates General, the (reactionary) clergy and aristocracy sat to the right of the Speaker and the representatives of the people (more progressive) sat to the left.
    i thank you. disappointed we nicked it off the french tho.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,874
    Tom Newton Dunn: No10: Four rounds of table banging for PM during Cabinet. May said Cameron has "warmth and respect" from his ministers. Gove didn't speak.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,667
    Lowlander said:

    Jobabob said:

    This NEC decision is just another place where the party has manouvred itself into a lose/lose situation.

    If Corbyn is asked to find noms, the party lives on. If not, it splits. It really is that simple.
    It doesn't look good for Labour then.

    http://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/a-582d-Corbyn-should-have-NEC-vote-wrapped-up#.V4TOL_krJ9O

    21 - 12 for Corbyn.
    Surprised the morning star haven't called it a unanimous decision already.
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    David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506

    Scott_P said:

    @PickardJE: Remember theory that Burnham didn't resign as he wanted Corbynista support for Manchester-mayor bid?

    Am told Momentum backing Tony Lloyd.

    Missed out on a Nobel Peace Prize though.
    Andrea won that......
    I have closely followed the saga of Andrea Leadsom's CV and have also worked in banks and fund management companies.

    I my view her CV was accurate. She was the corporate banking manager for Barings when it suffered the Leeson fraud, she did have a title of director at Barclays bank, as did very many others. She did have the titles she gave when at Invesco Perpetual.

    It was one or two of her supporters who seem to have incorrectly interpreted what her roles were. For example, she was not responsible for managing billions of pounds of funds when she was at Invesco, although her financial customers at Barclays would have had billions in loans.

    Her remarks about being a mother were entirely accurate and contribute to her life experience and was valid in showing her breadth of experience.

    Maybe she would have been on a steeper learning curve the May when it comes to the formalities of the PM's office but she does have a vision and optimism which May lacks but is needed in a leader.

    May is more like Brown and will go missing in times of controversy, as she did in the referendum debate.
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    LowlanderLowlander Posts: 941

    This NEC decision is just another place where the party has manouvred itself into a lose/lose situation.

    Correct.

    The same could be said of the PLP coup

    and last years nominations by some in the PLP

    and the paucity of Cooper/Kendalls/Burnhams policies

    and the fact that all Blairite shortlists for 15 years has left us with a PLP out of touch with its core vote.

    There is no solution that saves Labour IMO
    Based on recent performances where she has been slapping Ruth Davidson around, maybe Labour could turn to Kezia Dugdale...
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    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,932
    Pulpstar said:

    What time is the vote ?

    Meeting starts at 2pm

    Or if the Anti Corbyn members turn up first maybe sooner
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,564

    Mr. Simon, whilst I agree, the right is not immune to such daftness (see Baroness Warsi).

    when i first speed read that I thought you said Barons Wars. I thought that was a long way to go back. not sure there was much of a left and right in that constitutional crisis, although europe could be claimed to be the cause. when did left and right start being used in the modern political sense?
    French revolution, I believe. It was something like that in the Estates General, the (reactionary) clergy and aristocracy sat to the right of the Speaker and the representatives of the people (more progressive) sat to the left.
    Technically it was the National Assembly not the Estates General. But yes, that's where it comes from.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,036

    This NEC decision is just another place where the party has manouvred itself into a lose/lose situation.

    Correct.

    The same could be said of the PLP coup

    and last years nominations by some in the PLP

    and the paucity of Cooper/Kendalls/Burnhams policies

    and the fact that all Blairite shortlists for 15 years has left us with a PLP out of touch with its core vote.

    There is no solution that saves Labour IMO
    Has a PLP ever been as out of touch with it's members as Labour is now ?
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    paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,461

    Mr. 64, I believe left and right comes from the old French court (or parliament, modern history isn't my thing) based on the seating arrangements.

    cheers, makes sense.
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    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    Jobabob said:

    RodCrosby said:

    From David Allen Green, who knows his stuff

    As someone who has litigated re clubs and societies I can say helpfully: a court could go either way on the leadership nominations issue.

    If the NEC got decent advice and framed issue as "all candidates being treated equally", a court will probably not intervene.

    It would be helpful it he could back that up with a case. We're not talking about fuzzy generalities here, but very specific procedures to which the courts have to give their proper construction.
    You are obsessed with this. I wonder why?
    Errm. Because it's happening today, and I have some first-hand knowledge of these types of situations.

    We should never talk about politics, obviously. I must be on the wrong site. Sorry.
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,852
    MaxPB said:

    taffys said:

    ''Because all the Brexiteers have run away and left the grown ups in charge...''

    After Siemens volte face today its going to be fun poking your many false assertions up your backside in the next few months,

    A bit of caution on the Siemens article, I haven't read the BBC one, but in the FT the CEO is quoted saying that the second round of investment which would tool the factory up for exports us still dependent on our single market status and how easily they could sell the carriages in the Netherlands and other European countries without coach building capacity.
    Business people deal with the world as they find it. Trade will continue. The decisions are marginal ones about where to place investment.
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    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,739
    taffys said:

    nunu said:

    It was project fear afterall:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36771595

    Terrible news for REMAIN BSE shysters.
    The currency is rallying big time today.

    Another outrageous remainer piece of cr8p .
    You guys won (just), why are you still fighting?
    I haven't checked but I assume that the £/$ rate must be back where it was before the referendum?
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    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,960
    Cyclefree said:

    Just to provide some good news: my eldest son has been awarded a 2.1 degree. (In History of Art from the Courtauld.) Nothing, you might think, remarkable in that.

    But he became very ill a few years back and had to take time out to recover and then go back to complete his degree so it has been a very difficult and torrid time for him (and the rest of the family). I am very proud of him that he has finally achieved this.

    I also wanted to mention this because the estimable Mr M provided me with some private wise advice when it all started going wrong, which really helped. And I want to take this occasion to pay a public tribute to him for that.

    (Incidentally, sea air is brilliant for lungs but London air isn't. I really notice the difference. I may have to move to Amalfi permanently...... :) )

    Tremendous news! Congrats to your son, and to you all.

    Having nigh-on closed a successful start-up that I love after the stress-induced illness became too much at a young age, and returned to grow it further a few years later, I can well understand how pleased you must be. My parents were an immense source of strength in those tough times. I realise how difficult it was for them, and so similarly for you all too.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,031
    Mr. 64, np.

    French is quite a nice language to steal but my total lack of grammatical knowledge can make it tricky [the advantage of writing fantasy is that, if need be, I can claim Felarian is exactly like French except for the errors I make, which are in fact the way Felarians do things...].
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,950
    kjohnw said:

    does anyone think May will ditch Osbornes plan to cut corporation tax to 15%?

    More to the point, will May ditch Osborne?
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    grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234

    Mr. 64, I believe left and right comes from the old French court (or parliament, modern history isn't my thing) based on the seating arrangements.

    cheers, makes sense.
    French revolution, national assembly. Aristo supporters of the king sat on the right, the shouty peasant rabble on the left.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,031
    Mr. Mortimer, congrats on your business success.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,013

    This NEC decision is just another place where the party has manouvred itself into a lose/lose situation.

    Correct.

    The same could be said of the PLP coup

    and last years nominations by some in the PLP

    and the paucity of Cooper/Kendalls/Burnhams policies

    and the fact that all Blairite shortlists for 15 years has left us with a PLP out of touch with its core vote.

    There is no solution that saves Labour IMO
    Hopefully, Corbyn will rout his enemies today.
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    DisraeliDisraeli Posts: 1,106

    MaxPB said:

    All 7% of Britain's anti-Semites have joined Corbyn's Labour.
    Dear old Blighty's numbers aren't too bad compared to our peers....but what is it still with Jews in some countries?
    For some people, anti-Jewish sentiment is related to critical attitudes towards Israel.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,667
    FF43 said:

    MaxPB said:

    taffys said:

    ''Because all the Brexiteers have run away and left the grown ups in charge...''

    After Siemens volte face today its going to be fun poking your many false assertions up your backside in the next few months,

    A bit of caution on the Siemens article, I haven't read the BBC one, but in the FT the CEO is quoted saying that the second round of investment which would tool the factory up for exports us still dependent on our single market status and how easily they could sell the carriages in the Netherlands and other European countries without coach building capacity.
    Business people deal with the world as they find it. Trade will continue. The decisions are marginal ones about where to place investment.
    No doubt, but part of the reason to aim for the 15% corporation tax would be to ameliorate any possible tariffs should we end up on WTO terms.
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    grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    Sean_F said:

    This NEC decision is just another place where the party has manouvred itself into a lose/lose situation.

    Correct.

    The same could be said of the PLP coup

    and last years nominations by some in the PLP

    and the paucity of Cooper/Kendalls/Burnhams policies

    and the fact that all Blairite shortlists for 15 years has left us with a PLP out of touch with its core vote.

    There is no solution that saves Labour IMO
    Hopefully, Corbyn will rout his enemies today.
    He will. And in so doing will mark the beginning of the end of Labour as serious political force in Parliament,
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,036
    GIN1138 said:

    kjohnw said:

    does anyone think May will ditch Osbornes plan to cut corporation tax to 15%?

    More to the point, will May ditch Osborne?
    I bloody hope so.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,874

    Scott_P said:

    @PickardJE: Remember theory that Burnham didn't resign as he wanted Corbynista support for Manchester-mayor bid?

    Am told Momentum backing Tony Lloyd.

    Missed out on a Nobel Peace Prize though.
    Andrea won that......
    It was one or two of her supporters who seem to have incorrectly interpreted what her roles were. For example, she was not responsible for managing billions of pounds of funds when she was at Invesco, although her financial customers at Barclays would have had billions in loans.
    I suspect she was more sinned against than sinning - but for a politician of IDS experience to go on about 'loyalty' and 'black ops' shows she chose her allies very poorly. As with the other LEAVErs - brought down by her own side.....
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    Jobabob said:

    taffys said:

    ''All those WWC Leavers who voted primarily on immigration are going to be mighty disappointed if Freedom of Movement is retained, and presumably even more so if there's an increase in 'commonwealth' immigration if FoM is dispensed with. ''

    May's answer appears to be socialism in the boardroom.

    The tories have taken the easy way out. As Lord Tebbit writes today - they will pay, big time.

    Usually the wise betting strategy is to take what Lord Tebbit says, then bet against it.
    Also works with the pronoucements of Mystic John McTernan.
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    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    taffys said:

    ''I think she would only get some of that stuff through HoC with Labour votes... ''

    As half the tory members go to UKIP in disgust.

    In three months it will dawn on complacent conservative MPs and the mainstream media what a stupefying bad choice May is.

    Well, according to reports the Conservative Party membership halved under Cameron to 150,000. I doubt May will lose another half as of those that are still members are probably tribal stalwarts who will support the party regardless of what it does. That said, if my local party is anything to go by, death will thin their numbers some more (the party is literally dying out around here).

    Cam Mrs May inspire and attract new members to replace that the Grim Reaper claims? I doubt it. I suspect that the the majority of new members will be those looking for a nice little sinecure on the local councils.
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    MontyHallMontyHall Posts: 226
    edited July 2016
    Jobabob said:

    MontyHall said:

    Jobabob said:

    taffys said:

    ''All those WWC Leavers who voted primarily on immigration are going to be mighty disappointed if Freedom of Movement is retained, and presumably even more so if there's an increase in 'commonwealth' immigration if FoM is dispensed with. ''

    May's answer appears to be socialism in the boardroom.

    The tories have taken the easy way out. As Lord Tebbit writes today - they will pay, big time.

    Usually the wise betting strategy is to take what Lord Tebbit says, then bet against it.
    He was saying the momentum was with Leave while you were declaring 'the UK will not vote to leave the EU'
    I changed my mind. I bet accordingly. I won quite a bit on the referendum.
    Me too, one of my biggest ever wins

    Threw back £500 of the profit on Boris next PM though

    Strange flip flop from you though.Your posts didn't even allow for the possibility of a Leave win.
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    Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664
    John_M said:
    Cracking letter. I have absolutely no axe to grind here, as all possible outcomes are equally hilarious, but I don't see that keeping Corbyn off the ballot paper by insisting he gets nominations differs, as an idea, from slinging him into the heart of the sun with a custom-built enormo-trebuchet: splendid in theory but legally not a starter.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,013

    Sean_F said:

    This NEC decision is just another place where the party has manouvred itself into a lose/lose situation.

    Correct.

    The same could be said of the PLP coup

    and last years nominations by some in the PLP

    and the paucity of Cooper/Kendalls/Burnhams policies

    and the fact that all Blairite shortlists for 15 years has left us with a PLP out of touch with its core vote.

    There is no solution that saves Labour IMO
    Hopefully, Corbyn will rout his enemies today.
    He will. And in so doing will mark the beginning of the end of Labour as serious political force in Parliament,
    I assume the left will re-align, and some other left wing party will emerge.
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    CD13CD13 Posts: 6,352
    Mr Meeks,

    Best wishes to you both.
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    David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506

    From David Allen Green, who knows his stuff

    As someone who has litigated re clubs and societies I can say helpfully: a court could go either way on the leadership nominations issue.

    If the NEC got decent advice and framed issue as "all candidates being treated equally", a court will probably not intervene.

    Where the Labour party rules are ambiguous it is hard to see a judge wishing to interfere in the NEC's interpretation unless the NEC process of arriving at a decision was faulty.

    If the NEC has two lots of legal advice giving opposite views then the NEC is surely following a correct process before making a decision to interpret its own rules.

    Judges don't like making judgement decisions for regulators etc and only seek the regulators to follow correct process in arriving at a decision. Also any court remedy would only be to go back and follow the correct process not to change the regulator's decision.

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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,036
    Disraeli said:

    MaxPB said:

    All 7% of Britain's anti-Semites have joined Corbyn's Labour.
    Dear old Blighty's numbers aren't too bad compared to our peers....but what is it still with Jews in some countries?
    For some people, anti-Jewish sentiment is related to critical attitudes towards Israel.
    I'd be interested to see the Roma figures for Romania...
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    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,913
    Scott_P said:

    @rowenamason: Ukip has picked up more than 1,000 new members since Leadsom withdrawal (despite having a few leadership probs of its own). Usual = 20 a day

    That's not very many. My local constituency labour party (1 out of 650) has 150 new members since Brexit.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,543

    Scott_P said:

    @PickardJE: Remember theory that Burnham didn't resign as he wanted Corbynista support for Manchester-mayor bid?

    Am told Momentum backing Tony Lloyd.

    Missed out on a Nobel Peace Prize though.
    Andrea won that......
    I have closely followed the saga of Andrea Leadsom's CV and have also worked in banks and fund management companies.

    I my view her CV was accurate. She was the corporate banking manager for Barings when it suffered the Leeson fraud, she did have a title of director at Barclays bank, as did very many others. She did have the titles she gave when at Invesco Perpetual.

    It was one or two of her supporters who seem to have incorrectly interpreted what her roles were. For example, she was not responsible for managing billions of pounds of funds when she was at Invesco, although her financial customers at Barclays would have had billions in loans.

    Her remarks about being a mother were entirely accurate and contribute to her life experience and was valid in showing her breadth of experience.

    Maybe she would have been on a steeper learning curve the May when it comes to the formalities of the PM's office but she does have a vision and optimism which May lacks but is needed in a leader.

    May is more like Brown and will go missing in times of controversy, as she did in the referendum debate.
    The Leadsom cv fiasco was as close to a swiftboating as I have seen in UK politics. Someone who had had a genuinely successful career out of politics was suddenly mocked far more ferociously than someone who had basically worked in the safety of the public sector.

    Doesn't mean Leadsom should have won, not by a long shot. She was clearly not ready. But those involved in this unedifying spectacle should be noted and treated with great disdain in the future.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,874
    Cyclefree said:

    Just to provide some good news: my eldest son has been awarded a 2.1 degree. (In History of Art from the Courtauld.)

    Just The Courtauld?

    Teaching Standards
    100% overall course satisfaction (latest NSS Survey results).

    Research Standards
    The Courtauld leads the whole higher education sector for research quality, and is ranked highest for History of Art (latest Research Exercise Framework (REF) 2014, Art and Design History Practice and Theory Sub-Panel).

    Academic Strengths
    A world-class faculty of art historians and conservationists dedicated to specialised research-led teaching.


    http://www.thecompleteuniversityguide.co.uk/the-courtauld-institute-of-art
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,543
    Best wishes to Alastair and congrats to Cyclefree junior by the way.
This discussion has been closed.