politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » It could be a case of Corbynus interruptus in the Labour le
Comments
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rkrkrk said:
Sorry didn't quite finish my thought there... splitting your party almost guarantees defeat.SouthamObserver said:
As is having Jeremy Corbyn as your leader.rkrkrk said:
Sorry but if all these people just want a protest movement and don't want to win power... what were they doing in 2010 when they voted for the Milibands?SouthamObserver said:
The party would not be splitting if Corbyn accepted he cannot lead it when 80% of MPs do not have confidence in his leadership. The split will occur because most party members do not believe that Labour is primarily a parliamentary party. That's not a policy difference, but it is a philosophical chasm.
Splitting your party is probably the closest thing to a guarantee of electoral defeat in a FPTP system.
Labour is utterly buggered. Its coalition has been irrevocably broken. The question is what's the best and quickest way to build a credible, centre left alternative to the Tories from here?
But to split your party and then essentially stand on the same platform!? That's just a recipe for halving your vote!
If you think Corbyn is electoral doom- then by far the quickest way to build a credible, centre left alternative is to wait for him to leave. He will lose the next general election whenever it is- and then the members will vote him out. He's 67 anyway. He's probably not enjoying this job all that much.
Labour aren't in a position where they can afford to have another election where they go backwards. They already need a 10% swing to get a majority. Going into an election with Corbyn could write off the next election before the government's next term has even started.0 -
Do you have a link to any info on the lawsuit? My Googling skills are somewhat lacking.rcs1000 said:
You, mean apart from the founder of Zero Hedge being banned from working in the securities industry, and the whole site having been sued for taking money from hedge funds to spread false stories about companies?PlatoSaid said:
I don't claim Zerohedge are oracles, they're collectively more informed than a single PB person who's recently become a market analyst.John_M said:
The original source is from the German press. Zerohedge are a bit flakeyPlatoSaid said:
I know you're a bit full of yourself - but when you've the status of Zerohedge - maybe I'll pay your posts the same attention.MaxPB said:
Zerohedge. Ignore.John_M said:Deutsche Bank think the banks are in trouble.Not them, other banks. Motes and beams. Motes and beams.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-07-10/deutsche-banks-chief-economist-calls-€150-billion-bailout-european-banks
. Unfortunately, while I can order beer in every major European language, that is as far as my linguistic skills go.0 -
I don't believe the 90% for one moment, seeing the magnitude of the physical and mental barriers to getting routine stuff done that so many of that age face (assuming that age = 75+).nunu said:
90% for elderly is more plausible than 64% for 18-24 year olds IMO.NickPalmer said:Incidentally, I see turnout at the referendum among young voters is estimated by Survation as being much higher than first estimated, at over 60%. This has implications for the way polls downweight certainty to vote among the young (though among the very elderly apparently it exceeded 90%, which sounds a bit implausible).
But at least we are allowed to disbelieve polls now. We must be quite close to the point where psephology ceases to be an actual thing, like phrenology did.0 -
They will get as much as Tories. There are plenty of left of centre people who want their side to win and hate Tories. Liberals might lose some funding.PlatoSaid said:
And after the first blush of summer wears off?MaxPB said:
They'll be a new party with no real outgoings, no local party offices and no debt. They'll need the seed funding to get a HQ building and after that they'll have to build up slowly and begin to get councillors and members to defect to the new party.PlatoSaid said:
Really? Regularly? To replace the Unite funding et al of ...MaxPB said:
Which is why they'll need to talk to the big donors about seed funding. After that they'll need to build up members and fast. Start engaging the new members and see if the likes of our own @SouthamObserver, @Jobabob, @Roger and @tyson are more than just all talk. Solicit donations of up to £1000 per year from as many middle class types as possible.FrankBooth said:
I love the fact that you name those Labour donors as if we'd all know who they are! I know Mills but not the others. however we hit upon the core problem. How is such a party to be funded? To do without big donors and trade unions you'd probably need the better part of a million members. Where will they come from?MaxPB said:Blueprint for a Labour split.
1. Lose to Corbyn.
2. Start talking to Garrard, Taylor, Mills, Nasir and Rosenfeld. Sound them out about seed funding for a new party based on centre left principles.
3. Come up with a name for the party, including the word Labour.
4. Sound out how many MPs across all parties they can bring over.
5. Decide whether they are in favour or against Scottish independence.
6. Do a count, how many MPs will come over, if more than 120 are willing to come over, threaten the unions with the loss of official opposition status.
7. If the unions say no then make it happen.
At least 14 unions affiliate to Labour but a huge bulk of the funding comes from five unions that in 2014 affiliated 2,032,297 political levy paying members who provide the party with £5.55m in annual income.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/feb/04/labour-predicts-trade-union-bill-cut-funding-8m
Its not easy, but the alternative of knuckling under the hard left for another 10 years seems bleak enough to try.
I just don't see it as very likely. A look at past Labour donation registrations could be a sign of the future post Cash For Honours. It'd take quite a culture change for most Labour members to cough up more.
And if more middle class urban Labour voters do pay up - what link does that have with blue collar or underclass voters they claim to be for?
It's a schism.0 -
I think that is right, because for most swing voters there has been no recovery, and many Leave voters have nothing to lose.MontyHall said:Also on the BBC Politics show today was a section, presented by a young woman from the remain campaign, analysing where it all went wrong for them.
Apparently, believing that parroting "It's the economy stupid" would resonate was one of their major misjudgements0 -
http://www.dw.com/en/japan-pms-party-set-to-win-two-thirds-needed-to-change-constitution/a-19391175
Now this is potentially VERY interesting. If the Japanese revise their constitution, they'll have essentially reverted to their pre-1945 position.0 -
That was a really good hold. Was that Raonic's last chance?0
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Just in time to have their response ready when Trump sends them an invoice for the US defence umbrella...John_M said:http://www.dw.com/en/japan-pms-party-set-to-win-two-thirds-needed-to-change-constitution/a-19391175
Now this is potentially VERY interesting. If the Japanese revise their constitution, they'll have essentially reverted to their pre-1945 position.0 -
See Clause One, Nick.NickPalmer said:
I agree. I've never heard of the idea (about any party, in particular Labour) that the party is primarily a parliamentary party. Commitment to parliamentary democracy is one thing, the idea that the party is primarily a vehicle for the modest number of people who currently enjoy the Labour label is another, and a complete novelty. I've never met an MP who didn't concede that they were elected primarily because of their party affiliation, and it certainly doesn't confer ownership.SouthamObserver said:
The party would not be splitting if Corbyn accepted he cannot lead it when 80% of MPs do not have confidence in his leadership. The split will occur because most party members do not believe that Labour is primarily a parliamentary party. That's not a policy difference, but it is a philosophical chasm.
Labour has been committed to gaining power through the parliamentary process throughout its history. That has always meant the leader must have the confidence of the parliamentary party. Clearly, a lot of members no longer believe that should be the case. That is a significant change and a major philosophical gap that seems to be unbridgeable.0 -
Labour or any other party are not looking for a majority. They just want to get rid of the Tories.Artist said:rkrkrk said:
Sorry didn't quite finish my thought there... splitting your party almost guarantees defeat.SouthamObserver said:
As is having Jeremy Corbyn as your leader.rkrkrk said:
Sorry but if all these people just want a protest movement and don't want to win power... what were they doing in 2010 when they voted for the Milibands?SouthamObserver said:
The party would not be splitting if Corbyn accepted he cannot lead it when 80% of MPs do not have confidence in his leadership. The split will occur because most party members do not believe that Labour is primarily a parliamentary party. That's not a policy difference, but it is a philosophical chasm.
Splitting your party is probably the closest thing to a guarantee of electoral defeat in a FPTP system.
Labour is utterly buggered. Its coalition has been irrevocably broken. The question is what's the best and quickest way to build a credible, centre left alternative to the Tories from here?
But to split your party and then essentially stand on the same platform!? That's just a recipe for halving your vote!
If you think Corbyn is electoral doom- then by far the quickest way to build a credible, centre left alternative is to wait for him to leave. He will lose the next general election whenever it is- and then the members will vote him out. He's 67 anyway. He's probably not enjoying this job all that much.
Labour aren't in a position where they can afford to have another election where they go backwards. They already need a 10% swing to get a majority. Going into an election with Corbyn could write off the next election before the government's next term has even started.0 -
You mean the Plato who is on a political journey from New Labour to CamCon now Leadsome which will end somehwere between Britain first and UKIP? The funniest poster on here since the glory days of Tim of this parish. Hilarious.alex. said:
So basically your opinion of virtually every and any individual is determined solely by their position on Leave versus Remain. No news there.PlatoSaid said:
Umm, before the referendum - I rather liked AA Gill's determination to offend. Since it started, I've found him very unattractive - being married to Ms Rudd doesn't help.williamglenn said:
I was amazed to learn (or relearn) that he was married to Amber Rudd.AndyJS said:AA Gill's restaurant review this week is the Castle Inn, Bungay, Suffolk. 4 stars for both food and atmosphere. Nice to see him out of London for a change.
The whole referendum has exposed many for their true selves. And many in the media aren't winning too many friends. I can think of at least a dozen or so I've stopped following on Twitter for their anti-democratic, rude or frankly snotty views of 52% of the population.
Total eye-opener.
What's amazing is how you laughably continue to try to portray yourself as some sort of neutral observer.0 -
You really do yourself no favours here.alex. said:
Presumably they're very sympathetic to the Brexit cause?rcs1000 said:
You, mean apart from the founder of Zero Hedge being banned from working in the securities industry, and the whole site having been sued for taking money from hedge funds to spread false stories about companies?PlatoSaid said:
I don't claim Zerohedge are oracles, they're collectively more informed than a single PB person who's recently become a market analyst.John_M said:
The original source is from the German press. Zerohedge are a bit flakeyPlatoSaid said:
I know you're a bit full of yourself - but when you've the status of Zerohedge - maybe I'll pay your posts the same attention.MaxPB said:
Zerohedge. Ignore.John_M said:Deutsche Bank think the banks are in trouble.Not them, other banks. Motes and beams. Motes and beams.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-07-10/deutsche-banks-chief-economist-calls-€150-billion-bailout-european-banks. Unfortunately, while I can order beer in every major European language, that is as far as my linguistic skills go.
My point was that a single PBer rubbishing a widely read source was silly hubris.
He claimed to know more about a subject ten yrs on that I was exceptionally closely involved with at the time. Twice.
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Of course you'd say that - I've no doubt your cranial ridges would reveal an aptitude for troublemaking.Ishmael_X said:
I don't believe the 90% for one moment, seeing the magnitude of the physical and mental barriers to getting routine stuff done that so many of that age face (assuming that age = 75+).nunu said:
90% for elderly is more plausible than 64% for 18-24 year olds IMO.NickPalmer said:Incidentally, I see turnout at the referendum among young voters is estimated by Survation as being much higher than first estimated, at over 60%. This has implications for the way polls downweight certainty to vote among the young (though among the very elderly apparently it exceeded 90%, which sounds a bit implausible).
But at least we are allowed to disbelieve polls now. We must be quite close to the point where psephology ceases to be an actual thing, like phrenology did.0 -
So federalism is dead and the Franco-German Empire is back?williamglenn said:Gerhard Schroeder and Alain Minc (Sarkozy confidant) are calling for the bilateral Elysee treaty between France and Germany to be deepened to include a Franco-German minister in each government, a common position on European issues, the ability for each state to represent the other in European meetings and investment in language education so that they don't default to using English with each other.
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Zerohedge can be very breathless and excitable and underestimate the ability of people and institutions to find fudges and compromises and limp on, but that's no reason to dismiss everything they report out of hand. Doing that with any information source these days is simply stupid. It's about whether a piece is well-argued and corroborated by other information.MaxPB said:
The fact that you take zerohedge seriously means your posts are as worthless as theirs.PlatoSaid said:
I know you're a bit full of yourself - but when you've the status of Zerohedge - maybe I'll pay your posts the same attention.MaxPB said:
Zerohedge. Ignore.John_M said:Deutsche Bank think the banks are in trouble.Not them, other banks. Motes and beams. Motes and beams.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-07-10/deutsche-banks-chief-economist-calls-€150-billion-bailout-european-banks0 -
It's hard to tell, in truth. They're mainly angry and foretelling the End of Days. Basically the web equivalent of that guy on the high street with the sandwich board.alex. said:
Presumably they're very sympathetic to the Brexit cause?rcs1000 said:
You, mean apart from the founder of Zero Hedge being banned from working in the securities industry, and the whole site having been sued for taking money from hedge funds to spread false stories about companies?PlatoSaid said:
I don't claim Zerohedge are oracles, they're collectively more informed than a single PB person who's recently become a market analyst.John_M said:
The original source is from the German press. Zerohedge are a bit flakeyPlatoSaid said:
I know you're a bit full of yourself - but when you've the status of Zerohedge - maybe I'll pay your posts the same attention.MaxPB said:
Zerohedge. Ignore.John_M said:Deutsche Bank think the banks are in trouble.Not them, other banks. Motes and beams. Motes and beams.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-07-10/deutsche-banks-chief-economist-calls-€150-billion-bailout-european-banks. Unfortunately, while I can order beer in every major European language, that is as far as my linguistic skills go.0 -
Please don't tell me u believe they are moving their factory from Poole as a sort of punishment because 58% voted Leave.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Thanks for confirming this new party will still be a party based on hate.surbiton said:
They will get as much as Tories. There are plenty of left of centre people who want their side to win and hate Tories. Liberals might lose some funding.0 -
Mr. Dave, just had a quick listen to that programme.
Not too surprised the Remain campaign (BSE, an inauspicious acronym) was a bit of a mess.0 -
That sounds much more encouraging. Still too low though.NickPalmer said:Incidentally, I see turnout at the referendum among young voters is estimated by Survation as being much higher than first estimated, at over 60%.
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We don't know until the split happens and who gets to keep the Labour name. But just as many Labour members think Corbyn is the second coming, so many others believe he is utterly destructive.PeterC said:
Completely top down and completely doomed. Zero roots, zero infrastructure, zero brand. Just 170 odd europhiles unexpectedly out of a job and looking for a sub.PlatoSaid said:
And after the first blush of summer wears off?MaxPB said:
They'll be a new party with no real outgoings, no local party offices and no debt. They'll need the seed funding to get a HQ building and after that they'll have to build up slowly and begin to get councillors and members to defect to the new party.PlatoSaid said:
Really? Regularly? To replace the Unite funding et al of ...MaxPB said:
Which is why they'll need to talk to the big donors about seed class types as possible.FrankBooth said:
I love the fact that you name those Labour donors as if we'd all know who they are! I know Mills but not the others. however we hit upon the core problem. How is such a party to be funded? To do without big donors and trade unions you'd probably need the better part of a million members. Where will they come from?MaxPB said:Blueprint for a Labour split.
1. Lose to Corbyn.
2. Start talking to Garrard, Taylor, Mills, Nasir and Rosenfeld. Sound them out about seed funding for a new party based on centre left principles.
3. Come up with a name for the party, including the word Labour.
4. Sound out how many MPs across all parties they can bring over.
5. Decide whether they are in favour or against Scottish independence.
6. Do a count, how many MPs will come over, if more than 120 are willing to come over, threaten the unions with the loss of official opposition status.
7. If the unions say no then make it happen.
At least 14 unions affiliate to Labour but a huge bulk of the funding comes from five unions that in 2014 affiliated 2,032,297 political levy paying members who provide the party with £5.55m in annual income.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/feb/04/labour-predicts-trade-union-bill-cut-funding-8m
Its not easy, but the alternative of knuckling under the hard left for another 10 years seems bleak enough to try.
I just don't see it as very likely. A look at past Labour donation registrations could be a sign of the future post Cash For Honours. It'd take quite a culture change for most Labour members to cough up more.
And if more middle class urban Labour voters do pay up - what link does that have with blue collar or underclass voters they claim to be for?
It's a schism.
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How many of these MPs will win their standing as Independents ? Possibly none.SouthamObserver said:
See Clause One, Nick.NickPalmer said:
I agree. I've never heard of the idea (about any party, in particular Labour) that the party is primarily a parliamentary party. Commitment to parliamentary democracy is one thing, the idea that the party is primarily a vehicle for the modest number of people who currently enjoy the Labour label is another, and a complete novelty. I've never met an MP who didn't concede that they were elected primarily because of their party affiliation, and it certainly doesn't confer ownership.SouthamObserver said:
The party would not be splitting if Corbyn accepted he cannot lead it when 80% of MPs do not have confidence in his leadership. The split will occur because most party members do not believe that Labour is primarily a parliamentary party. That's not a policy difference, but it is a philosophical chasm.
Labour has been committed to gaining power through the parliamentary process throughout its history. That has always meant the leader must have the confidence of the parliamentary party. Clearly, a lot of members no longer believe that should be the case. That is a significant change and a major philosophical gap that seems to be unbridgeable.0 -
But the odds of that happening while Corbyn is leader or for five years after he is gone are about the same as the odds of ME winning Wimbledon!surbiton said:
Labour or any other party are not looking for a majority. They just want to get rid of the Tories.Artist said:rkrkrk said:
Sorry didn't quite finish my thought there... splitting your party almost guarantees defeat.SouthamObserver said:
As is having Jeremy Corbyn as your leader.rkrkrk said:
Sorry but if all these people just want a protest movement and don't want to win power... what were they doing in 2010 when they voted for the Milibands?SouthamObserver said:
The party would not be splitting if Corbyn accepted he cannot lead it when 80% of MPs do not have confidence in his leadership. The split will occur because most party members do not believe that Labour is primarily a parliamentary party. That's not a policy difference, but it is a philosophical chasm.
Splitting your party is probably the closest thing to a guarantee of electoral defeat in a FPTP system.
Labour is utterly buggered. Its coalition has been irrevocably broken. The question is what's the best and quickest way to build a credible, centre left alternative to the Tories from here?
But to split your party and then essentially stand on the same platform!? That's just a recipe for halving your vote!
If you think Corbyn is electoral doom- then by far the quickest way to build a credible, centre left alternative is to wait for him to leave. He will lose the next general election whenever it is- and then the members will vote him out. He's 67 anyway. He's probably not enjoying this job all that much.
Labour aren't in a position where they can afford to have another election where they go backwards. They already need a 10% swing to get a majority. Going into an election with Corbyn could write off the next election before the government's next term has even started.
Every week he stays now will add another seat to the Conservative majority.0 -
I don't think so.ydoethur said:
But the odds of that happening while Corbyn is leader or for five years after he is gone are about the same as the odds of ME winning Wimbledon!surbiton said:
Labour or any other party are not looking for a majority. They just want to get rid of the Tories.Artist said:rkrkrk said:
Sorry didn't quite finish my thought there... splitting your party almost guarantees defeat.SouthamObserver said:
As is having Jeremy Corbyn as your leader.rkrkrk said:
Sorry but if all these people just want a protest movement and don't want to win power... what were they doing in 2010 when they voted for the Milibands?SouthamObserver said:
The party would not be splitting if Corbyn accepted he cannot lead it when 80% of MPs do not have confidence in his leadership. The split will occur because most party members do not believe that Labour is primarily a parliamentary party. That's not a policy difference, but it is a philosophical chasm.
Splitting your party is probably the closest thing to a guarantee of electoral defeat in a FPTP system.
Labour is utterly buggered. Its coalition has been irrevocably broken. The question is what's the best and quickest way to build a credible, centre left alternative to the Tories from here?
But to split your party and then essentially stand on the same platform!? That's just a recipe for halving your vote!
If you think Corbyn is electoral doom- then by far the quickest way to build a credible, centre left alternative is to wait for him to leave. He will lose the next general election whenever it is- and then the members will vote him out. He's 67 anyway. He's probably not enjoying this job all that much.
Labour aren't in a position where they can afford to have another election where they go backwards. They already need a 10% swing to get a majority. Going into an election with Corbyn could write off the next election before the government's next term has even started.
Every week he stays now will add another seat to the Conservative majority.0 -
Mr. Booth, I wonder how the Visegrad Group, not to mention Spain or Italy (and so on) see that sort of thing.0
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Oh dear we are very tetchy today - questions questions - which Leave people have never been keen on answering and still aren't even after they won the referendum.PlatoSaid said:
And what? She's too smart an investor to be PM? That's a peculiar way to upset Tory members.alex. said:
Too keen on family?
Thinks adopted kids should have a mum and a dad?
Keen on generic Christian values?
Seriously. Get a grip.0 -
Very few. It would have to be a new party. The likelihood is that a split will deliver a huge Tory majority. But this country needs a credible centre left alternative government. Corbyn Labour cannot provide that.surbiton said:
How many of these MPs will win their standing as Independents ? Possibly none.SouthamObserver said:
See Clause One, Nick.NickPalmer said:
I agree. I've never heard of the idea (about any party, in particular Labour) that the party is primarily a parliamentary party. Commitment to parliamentary democracy is one thing, the idea that the party is primarily a vehicle for the modest number of people who currently enjoy the Labour label is another, and a complete novelty. I've never met an MP who didn't concede that they were elected primarily because of their party affiliation, and it certainly doesn't confer ownership.SouthamObserver said:
The party would not be splitting if Corbyn accepted he cannot lead it when 80% of MPs do not have confidence in his leadership. The split will occur because most party members do not believe that Labour is primarily a parliamentary party. That's not a policy difference, but it is a philosophical chasm.
Labour has been committed to gaining power through the parliamentary process throughout its history. That has always meant the leader must have the confidence of the parliamentary party. Clearly, a lot of members no longer believe that should be the case. That is a significant change and a major philosophical gap that seems to be unbridgeable.
0 -
I miss those guys. When I was a teenager in Newcastle - there was a very committed chappy who'd always be around Grey's Monument with his.John_M said:
It's hard to tell, in truth. They're mainly angry and foretelling the End of Days. Basically the web equivalent of that guy on the high street with the sandwich board.alex. said:
Presumably they're very sympathetic to the Brexit cause?rcs1000 said:
You, mean apart from the founder of Zero Hedge being banned from working in the securities industry, and the whole site having been sued for taking money from hedge funds to spread false stories about companies?PlatoSaid said:
I don't claim Zerohedge are oracles, they're collectively more informed than a single PB person who's recently become a market analyst.John_M said:
The original source is from the German press. Zerohedge are a bit flakeyPlatoSaid said:
I know you're a bit full of yourself - but when you've the status of Zerohedge - maybe I'll pay your posts the same attention.MaxPB said:
Zerohedge. Ignore.John_M said:Deutsche Bank think the banks are in trouble.Not them, other banks. Motes and beams. Motes and beams.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-07-10/deutsche-banks-chief-economist-calls-€150-billion-bailout-european-banks. Unfortunately, while I can order beer in every major European language, that is as far as my linguistic skills go.
Always very polite and earnest. No hideous megaphone, just a Greatcoat.0 -
Or the German empire has arrived and France is looking for a way to get in the driver's seat.FrankBooth said:
So federalism is dead and the Franco-German Empire is back?williamglenn said:Gerhard Schroeder and Alain Minc (Sarkozy confidant) are calling for the bilateral Elysee treaty between France and Germany to be deepened to include a Franco-German minister in each government, a common position on European issues, the ability for each state to represent the other in European meetings and investment in language education so that they don't default to using English with each other.
0 -
Not as a punishment but because of the inevitable consequence of a Brexit induced slowdown.nunu said:
Please don't tell me u believe they are moving their factory from Poole as a sort of punishment because 58% voted Leave.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Is there anything that you weren't closely involved with?PlatoSaid said:
You really do yourself no favours here.alex. said:
Presumably they're very sympathetic to the Brexit cause?rcs1000 said:
You, mean apart from the founder of Zero Hedge being banned from working in the securities industry, and the whole site having been sued for taking money from hedge funds to spread false stories about companies?PlatoSaid said:
I don't claim Zerohedge are oracles, they're collectively more informed than a single PB person who's recently become a market analyst.John_M said:
The original source is from the German press. Zerohedge are a bit flakeyPlatoSaid said:
I know you're a bit full of yourself - but when you've the status of Zerohedge - maybe I'll pay your posts the same attention.MaxPB said:
Zerohedge. Ignore.John_M said:Deutsche Bank think the banks are in trouble.Not them, other banks. Motes and beams. Motes and beams.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-07-10/deutsche-banks-chief-economist-calls-€150-billion-bailout-european-banks. Unfortunately, while I can order beer in every major European language, that is as far as my linguistic skills go.
My point was that a single PBer rubbishing a widely read source was silly hubris.
He claimed to know more about a subject ten yrs on that I was exceptionally closely involved with at the time. Twice.
You're not really Andrea Leadsom, are you?0 -
Which merely goes to prove the gulf between London and the rest of the country.surbiton said:
I don't think so.ydoethur said:
But the odds of that happening while Corbyn is leader or for five years after he is gone are about the same as the odds of ME winning Wimbledon!surbiton said:
Labour or any other party are not looking for a majority. They just want to get rid of the Tories.Artist said:rkrkrk said:
Sorry didn't quite finish my thought there... splitting your party almost guarantees defeat.SouthamObserver said:
As is having Jeremy Corbyn as your leader.rkrkrk said:
Sorry but if all these people just want a protest movement and don't want to win power... what were they doing in 2010 when they voted for the Milibands?SouthamObserver said:
The party would not be splitting if Corbyn accepted he cannot lead it when 80% of MPs do not have confidence in his leadership. The split will occur because most party members do not believe that Labour is primarily a parliamentary party. That's not a policy difference, but it is a philosophical chasm.
Splitting your party is probably the closest thing to a guarantee of electoral defeat in a FPTP system.
Labour is utterly buggered. Its coalition has been irrevocably broken. The question is what's the best and quickest way to build a credible, centre left alternative to the Tories from here?
But to split your party and then essentially stand on the same platform!? That's just a recipe for halving your vote!
If you think Corbyn is electoral doom- then by far the quickest way to build a credible, centre left alternative is to wait for him to leave. He will lose the next general election whenever it is- and then the members will vote him out. He's 67 anyway. He's probably not enjoying this job all that much.
Labour aren't in a position where they can afford to have another election where they go backwards. They already need a 10% swing to get a majority. Going into an election with Corbyn could write off the next election before the government's next term has even started.
Every week he stays now will add another seat to the Conservative majority.0 -
Are you going for Nit Of The Year?saddened said:
Is there anything that you weren't closely involved with?PlatoSaid said:
You really do yourself no favours here.alex. said:
Presumably they're very sympathetic to the Brexit cause?rcs1000 said:
You, mean apart from the founder of Zero Hedge being banned from working in the securities industry, and the whole site having been sued for taking money from hedge funds to spread false stories about companies?PlatoSaid said:
I don't claim Zerohedge are oracles, they're collectively more informed than a single PB person who's recently become a market analyst.John_M said:
The original source is from the German press. Zerohedge are a bit flakeyPlatoSaid said:
I know you're a bit full of yourself - but when you've the status of Zerohedge - maybe I'll pay your posts the same attention.MaxPB said:
Zerohedge. Ignore.John_M said:Deutsche Bank think the banks are in trouble.Not them, other banks. Motes and beams. Motes and beams.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-07-10/deutsche-banks-chief-economist-calls-€150-billion-bailout-european-banks. Unfortunately, while I can order beer in every major European language, that is as far as my linguistic skills go.
My point was that a single PBer rubbishing a widely read source was silly hubris.
He claimed to know more about a subject ten yrs on that I was exceptionally closely involved with at the time. Twice.
You're not really Andrea Leadsom, are you?
Dearie me.0 -
What really struck me in the long Guardian piece was how they decided they needed a leader of the campaign from the liberal right and opted for Stuart Rose. Presumably they were worried about Nigel Lawson away all those libertarian voters and an internationalist businessman like Rose would put a stop to it. Clegg recommended his own former strategist Ryan Coetzee to the campaign - a man who's record could hardly get worse.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Dave, just had a quick listen to that programme.
Not too surprised the Remain campaign (BSE, an inauspicious acronym) was a bit of a mess.0 -
LOL!! Post of the day!felix said:
You mean the Plato who is on a political journey from New Labour to CamCon now Leadsome which will end somehwere between Britain first and UKIP? The funniest poster on here since the glory days of Tim of this parish. Hilarious.alex. said:
So basically your opinion of virtually every and any individual is determined solely by their position on Leave versus Remain. No news there.PlatoSaid said:
Umm, before the referendum - I rather liked AA Gill's determination to offend. Since it started, I've found him very unattractive - being married to Ms Rudd doesn't help.williamglenn said:
I was amazed to learn (or relearn) that he was married to Amber Rudd.AndyJS said:AA Gill's restaurant review this week is the Castle Inn, Bungay, Suffolk. 4 stars for both food and atmosphere. Nice to see him out of London for a change.
The whole referendum has exposed many for their true selves. And many in the media aren't winning too many friends. I can think of at least a dozen or so I've stopped following on Twitter for their anti-democratic, rude or frankly snotty views of 52% of the population.
Total eye-opener.
What's amazing is how you laughably continue to try to portray yourself as some sort of neutral observer.0 -
Andy Murray reading messages in a tablet in his cool box.0
-
Mr. Observer, quite.
If the 2015 election was Martin Day, a Corbyn-led Labour Party may make 2020 May Day.0 -
Doesn't seem to me much hope for the current batch of MPs. For ordinary members or activists who aren't in the Corbyn wing, it seems to be a matter of sitting it out/leaving and waiting until the pendulum swings backrkrkrk said:
Sorry didn't quite finish my thought there... splitting your party almost guarantees defeat.SouthamObserver said:
As is having Jeremy Corbyn as your leader.rkrkrk said:
Sorry but if all these people just want a protest movement and don't want to win power... what were they doing in 2010 when they voted for the Milibands?SouthamObserver said:
The party would not be splitting if Corbyn accepted he cannot lead it when 80% of MPs do not have confidence in his leadership. The split will occur because most party members do not believe that Labour is primarily a parliamentary party. That's not a policy difference, but it is a philosophical chasm.
Splitting your party is probably the closest thing to a guarantee of electoral defeat in a FPTP system.
Labour is utterly buggered. Its coalition has been irrevocably broken. The question is what's the best and quickest way to build a credible, centre left alternative to the Tories from here?
But to split your party and then essentially stand on the same platform!? That's just a recipe for halving your vote!
If you think Corbyn is electoral doom- then by far the quickest way to build a credible, centre left alternative is to wait for him to leave. He will lose the next general election whenever it is- and then the members will vote him out. He's 67 anyway. He's probably not enjoying this job all that much.
Also- I actually think he has quite a personal following in the membership based on his humbleness and reputation that would not transfer across to another candidate with similar views.
If you split the party... the mechanism seems to be lots of the MPs will leave a la SDP and set up their own party. They will have no brand, no loyal activists, and likely not enough money to function. In a FPTP system they will get hammered and guarantee a Tory win. Then when Corbyn's reign ends in disaster- how do you get back into the Labour party which you left? Or do you keep trying to build up your new party? You split your resources in two and doom the left to a meaningless divide- since there isn't really much of a policy difference!
Are the members of Mr Miliband's front bench under threat of deselection too - those who refused to serve under him? Or is it only those who resigned from Mr Corbyn's front bench?0 -
Mr. S, whilst I disagree with Miss Plato on Leadsom, your post effectively accuses her of repeatedly being on the winning side, and being an accurate reflection of mainstream public opinion.
Edited extra bit: original post was actually by Mr. Felix, Mr. S just quoted it.0 -
-
Plato has had so many jobs and yet had time to MOTHER 600 cats !saddened said:
Is there anything that you weren't closely involved with?PlatoSaid said:
You really do yourself no favours here.alex. said:
Presumably they're very sympathetic to the Brexit cause?rcs1000 said:
You, mean apart from the founder of Zero Hedge being banned from working in the securities industry, and the whole site having been sued for taking money from hedge funds to spread false stories about companies?PlatoSaid said:
I don't claim Zerohedge are oracles, they're collectively more informed than a single PB person who's recently become a market analyst.John_M said:
The original source is from the German press. Zerohedge are a bit flakeyPlatoSaid said:
I know you're a bit full of yourself - but when you've the status of Zerohedge - maybe I'll pay your posts the same attention.MaxPB said:
Zerohedge. Ignore.John_M said:Deutsche Bank think the banks are in trouble.Not them, other banks. Motes and beams. Motes and beams.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-07-10/deutsche-banks-chief-economist-calls-€150-billion-bailout-european-banks. Unfortunately, while I can order beer in every major European language, that is as far as my linguistic skills go.
My point was that a single PBer rubbishing a widely read source was silly hubris.
He claimed to know more about a subject ten yrs on that I was exceptionally closely involved with at the time. Twice.
You're not really Andrea Leadsom, are you?0 -
If I was a Labour MP I might try this....
Allow Corbyn on the ballot. Let him win. Then form a new independent parliamentary grouping under a new leader with enough MPs to be the official opposition. Force their own parties to deselect them. Then run as candidates at the next election as Independent Labour Party. They will have the benefit of incumbency, having been the official opposition in parliament for three years and hopefully attracted some donors to get the party going.0 -
Yes, the rules are perfectly clear - it's only those who want to see Corbyn defenestrated who are trying to read into them something which isn't there.Pulpstar said:B.
Nomination
i.
In the case of a vacancy for leader or deputy
leader, each nomination must be supported
by 15 per cent of the combined Commons
members of the PLP and members of the
EPLP. Nominations not attaining this
threshold shall be null and void.
ii.
Where there is no vacancy, nominations may
be sought by potential challengers each year
prior to the annual session of Party
conference. In this case any nomination must
be supported by 20 per cent of the combined
Commons members of the PLP and members
of the EPLP. Nominations not attaining this
threshold shall be null and void.0 -
Quite plausible.FrankBooth said:If I was a Labour MP I might try this....
Allow Corbyn on the ballot. Let him win. Then form a new independent parliamentary grouping under a new leader with enough MPs to be the official opposition. Force their own parties to deselect them. Then run as candidates at the next election as Independent Labour Party. They will have the benefit of incumbency, having been the official opposition in parliament for three years and hopefully attracted some donors to get the party going.0 -
Yup, we've been here months ago. It's very clear. The assertions from those wishing otherwise doesn't change it.ThreeQuidder said:
Yes, the rules are perfectly clear - it's only those who want to see Corbyn defenestrated who are trying to read into them something which isn't there.Pulpstar said:B.
Nomination
i.
In the case of a vacancy for leader or deputy
leader, each nomination must be supported
by 15 per cent of the combined Commons
members of the PLP and members of the
EPLP. Nominations not attaining this
threshold shall be null and void.
ii.
Where there is no vacancy, nominations may
be sought by potential challengers each year
prior to the annual session of Party
conference. In this case any nomination must
be supported by 20 per cent of the combined
Commons members of the PLP and members
of the EPLP. Nominations not attaining this
threshold shall be null and void.
0 -
If the MPs leave to set up a new party on what grounds could they claim Labour's name should follow them?SouthamObserver said:
We don't know until the split happens and who gets to keep the Labour name. But just as many Labour members think Corbyn is the second coming, so many others believe he is utterly destructive.
0 -
Will the new federal capital be Vichy or Weimar?FrankBooth said:
So federalism is dead and the Franco-German Empire is back?williamglenn said:Gerhard Schroeder and Alain Minc (Sarkozy confidant) are calling for the bilateral Elysee treaty between France and Germany to be deepened to include a Franco-German minister in each government, a common position on European issues, the ability for each state to represent the other in European meetings and investment in language education so that they don't default to using English with each other.
0 -
What if they do not set up a party but simply make themselves the official opposition in the HoC. Corbyn and co. will then be just non-party backbenchers.rkrkrk said:
If the MPs leave to set up a new party on what grounds could they claim Labour's name should follow them?SouthamObserver said:
We don't know until the split happens and who gets to keep the Labour name. But just as many Labour members think Corbyn is the second coming, so many others believe he is utterly destructive.0 -
What is she hiding?felix said:
Oh dear we are very tetchy today - questions questions - which Leave people have never been keen on answering and still aren't even after they won the referendum.PlatoSaid said:
And what? She's too smart an investor to be PM? That's a peculiar way to upset Tory members.alex. said:
Too keen on family?
Thinks adopted kids should have a mum and a dad?
Keen on generic Christian values?
Seriously. Get a grip.0 -
BRITISH TENNIS ACE Andy Murray wins his second Wimbledon crown 6-4, 7-6, 7-6!!!0
-
Well done Andy.
Hamilton’s 4th British GP win and Murray at Wimbledon today will make SPOTY betting fun.
0 -
Murray!0
-
3rd grand slam for the Scot. In 2 years time, will Brits support a foreigner ?0
-
Perfectly appropriate to have a leadership election- but if Corbyn wins it isn't appropriate to split the party. In electoral terms that will be much worse than just having a united (ish) party behind Corbyn. It will make it much harder to rebuild after.Artist said:
Labour aren't in a position where they can afford to have another election where they go backwards. They already need a 10% swing to get a majority. Going into an election with Corbyn could write off the next election before the government's next term has even started.
0 -
Well done Murray on his second championship win, though a fairly straightforward straight sets victory this time0
-
Mr. StClare, I think Murray's strong favourite.
I think Hamilton didn't win it with last year's title, and Button was 2nd in 2009 (Ryan Giggs got it, for reasons that are beyond me).0 -
Got to be Murray. That was a magnificent performance.SimonStClare said:Well done Andy.
Hamilton’s 4th British GP win and Murray at Wimbledon today will make SPOTY betting fun.
Very impressed with Raonic's net play as well - haven't seen anyone that good at the net since Federer in his heyday.0 -
He lives in England!surbiton said:3rd grand slam for the Scot. In 2 years time, will Brits support a foreigner ?
0 -
Of course, the Olympics might change everything. But if Murray takes gold there again too...0
-
He supported YES in Indyref. Therefore, he will be a Scot.Sunil_Prasannan said:
He lives in England!surbiton said:3rd grand slam for the Scot. In 2 years time, will Brits support a foreigner ?
0 -
Ryan was playing two different sports !Morris_Dancer said:Mr. StClare, I think Murray's strong favourite.
I think Hamilton didn't win it with last year's title, and Button was 2nd in 2009 (Ryan Giggs got it, for reasons that are beyond me).0 -
I agree on both counts – a cracking match all round. - does small Mexicon wave.ydoethur said:
Got to be Murray. That was a magnificent performance.SimonStClare said:Well done Andy.
Hamilton’s 4th British GP win and Murray at Wimbledon today will make SPOTY betting fun.
Very impressed with Raonic's net play as well - haven't seen anyone that good at the net since Federer in his heyday.
0 -
Hes got a gb tie vs serbia (djokovic) next weekend.ydoethur said:Of course, the Olympics might change everything. But if Murray takes gold there again too...
0 -
Mr. Surbiton, he got SPOTY for services to Legover?0
-
Are you sure you meant Federer? He's never spent much time at the net. Not that he was particularly bad at it when the opportunity presented itself.SimonStClare said:
I agree on both counts – a cracking match all round. - does small Mexicon wave.ydoethur said:
Got to be Murray. That was a magnificent performance.SimonStClare said:Well done Andy.
Hamilton’s 4th British GP win and Murray at Wimbledon today will make SPOTY betting fun.
Very impressed with Raonic's net play as well - haven't seen anyone that good at the net since Federer in his heyday.0 -
Djokovic has withdrawn, hasn't he?paulyork64 said:
Hes got a gb tie vs serbia (djokovic) next weekend.ydoethur said:Of course, the Olympics might change everything. But if Murray takes gold there again too...
0 -
Potting balls is part of snooker!Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Surbiton, he got SPOTY for services to Legover?
0 -
I seem to remember him playing a lot at the net before Nadal upped his game. Then he hung back to make him run round more. Very good at punching the ball almost off his hips straight back into play.alex. said:
Are you sure you meant Federer? He's never spent much time at the net. Not that he was particularly bad at it when the opportunity presented itself.SimonStClare said:
I agree on both counts – a cracking match all round. - does small Mexicon wave.ydoethur said:
Got to be Murray. That was a magnificent performance.SimonStClare said:Well done Andy.
Hamilton’s 4th British GP win and Murray at Wimbledon today will make SPOTY betting fun.
Very impressed with Raonic's net play as well - haven't seen anyone that good at the net since Federer in his heyday.0 -
Murray mentions Cameron to a mixed reaction, says 'it is an impossible job'0
-
"Being a Christian helps make me a better politician." Andrea Leadsom.
Oh no sorry, it was actually @David_Cameron https://t.co/K4nx4ed7yX0 -
0
-
The leader of the Labour Party is the ex officio leader of the PLP. Unless they form themselves into a new party (where they would no longer be Labour MPs) Corbyn remains LOTO and leader of the PLP.surbiton said:
What if they do not set up a party but simply make themselves the official opposition in the HoC. Corbyn and co. will then be just non-party backbenchers.rkrkrk said:
If the MPs leave to set up a new party on what grounds could they claim Labour's name should follow them?SouthamObserver said:
We don't know until the split happens and who gets to keep the Labour name. But just as many Labour members think Corbyn is the second coming, so many others believe he is utterly destructive.0 -
Thinking about splits and party names it brings to mind one of my favourite election results:
1997 Cardiff South and Penarth
Alun Michael Labour Co-op 22647
Caroline Roberts Conservative 8786
Simon Wakefield Lib Dem 3964
John Foreman New Labour 3942
David Haswell Plaid Cymru 13560 -
Andrew Castle says of Murray's Wimbledon victory. "It's not about money. But for the record it's £2 million to the winner, £1 million to the runner up" !!!!!0
-
Yes. If Corbyn wins the PLP will need to row in behind him. Humiliating, yes - but they would have played for high stakes and lost. Splitting is like falling into a black hole.rkrkrk said:
Perfectly appropriate to have a leadership election- but if Corbyn wins it isn't appropriate to split the party. In electoral terms that will be much worse than just having a united (ish) party behind Corbyn. It will make it much harder to rebuild after.Artist said:
Labour aren't in a position where they can afford to have another election where they go backwards. They already need a 10% swing to get a majority. Going into an election with Corbyn could write off the next election before the government's next term has even started.0 -
Yes. But the Speaker will only recognise numbers. Not what the Labour party constitution says.PeterC said:
The leader of the Labour Party is the ex officio leader of the PLP. Unless they form themselves into a new party (where they would no longer be Labour MPs) Corbyn remains LOTO and leader of the PLP.surbiton said:
What if they do not set up a party but simply make themselves the official opposition in the HoC. Corbyn and co. will then be just non-party backbenchers.rkrkrk said:
If the MPs leave to set up a new party on what grounds could they claim Labour's name should follow them?SouthamObserver said:
We don't know until the split happens and who gets to keep the Labour name. But just as many Labour members think Corbyn is the second coming, so many others believe he is utterly destructive.0 -
What makes him want to mention Cameron?HYUFD said:Murray mentions Cameron to a mixed reaction, says 'it is an impossible job'
0 -
Will he support YES in Indyref 2?surbiton said:
He supported YES in Indyref. Therefore, he will be a Scot.Sunil_Prasannan said:
He lives in England!surbiton said:3rd grand slam for the Scot. In 2 years time, will Brits support a foreigner ?
0 -
Golly how vile
Oh, look, 21/6.
Cameron urges voters “think of the children” before deciding which way to vote in EU Ref.
https://t.co/Ze1S2vhqK0
Fancy that0 -
He was talking about playing in front of the PMFrankBooth said:
What makes him want to mention Cameron?HYUFD said:Murray mentions Cameron to a mixed reaction, says 'it is an impossible job'
0 -
Well done to the British no.1
Go Andy!0 -
Almost certainlySunil_Prasannan said:
Will he support YES in Indyref 2?surbiton said:
He supported YES in Indyref. Therefore, he will be a Scot.Sunil_Prasannan said:
He lives in England!surbiton said:3rd grand slam for the Scot. In 2 years time, will Brits support a foreigner ?
0 -
Congrats to Murray. You can't blame him for seeking a title, many have earned one for less than two Wimbledon titles.FrankBooth said:
What makes him want to mention Cameron?HYUFD said:Murray mentions Cameron to a mixed reaction, says 'it is an impossible job'
0 -
That is a moot point. No one knows really.surbiton said:
Yes. But the Speaker will only recognise numbers. Not what the Labour party constitution says.PeterC said:
The leader of the Labour Party is the ex officio leader of the PLP. Unless they form themselves into a new party (where they would no longer be Labour MPs) Corbyn remains LOTO and leader of the PLP.surbiton said:
What if they do not set up a party but simply make themselves the official opposition in the HoC. Corbyn and co. will then be just non-party backbenchers.rkrkrk said:
If the MPs leave to set up a new party on what grounds could they claim Labour's name should follow them?SouthamObserver said:
We don't know until the split happens and who gets to keep the Labour name. But just as many Labour members think Corbyn is the second coming, so many others believe he is utterly destructive.0 -
In which case the Tory posters at the next general election write themselves '172 Labour MPs didn't vote for Corbyn, so why should you?'PeterC said:
Yes. If Corbyn wins the PLP will need to row in behind him. Humiliating, yes - but they would have played for high stakes and lost. Splitting is like falling into a black hole.rkrkrk said:
Perfectly appropriate to have a leadership election- but if Corbyn wins it isn't appropriate to split the party. In electoral terms that will be much worse than just having a united (ish) party behind Corbyn. It will make it much harder to rebuild after.Artist said:
Labour aren't in a position where they can afford to have another election where they go backwards. They already need a 10% swing to get a majority. Going into an election with Corbyn could write off the next election before the government's next term has even started.0 -
Last time for Cameron presumably, so a decent enough thing to mention.FrankBooth said:
What makes him want to mention Cameron?HYUFD said:Murray mentions Cameron to a mixed reaction, says 'it is an impossible job'
Of course there would be a twitter storm now if he mentioned First Minister instead.0 -
Murray namechecks the PM but not Nicola...
That is an actual IndyRef2 trigger.
Of course, Andy had the edge because he is a mother0 -
You're right, thanks. Great news.ydoethur said:
Djokovic has withdrawn, hasn't he?paulyork64 said:
Hes got a gb tie vs serbia (djokovic) next weekend.ydoethur said:Of course, the Olympics might change everything. But if Murray takes gold there again too...
0 -
I know - they ar e doomed anyway. The only way is for for Corbyn to be on the ballot and to lose in a fair fight.HYUFD said:
In which case the Tory posters at the next general election write themselves '172 Labour MPs didn't vote for Corbyn, why should you?'PeterC said:
Yes. If Corbyn wins the PLP will need to row in behind him. Humiliating, yes - but they would have played for high stakes and lost. Splitting is like falling into a black hole.rkrkrk said:
Perfectly appropriate to have a leadership election- but if Corbyn wins it isn't appropriate to split the party. In electoral terms that will be much worse than just having a united (ish) party behind Corbyn. It will make it much harder to rebuild after.Artist said:
Labour aren't in a position where they can afford to have another election where they go backwards. They already need a 10% swing to get a majority. Going into an election with Corbyn could write off the next election before the government's next term has even started.0 -
1997 Tatton:FrankBooth said:Thinking about splits and party names it brings to mind one of my favourite election results:
1997 Cardiff South and Penarth
Alun Michael Labour Co-op 22647
Caroline Roberts Conservative 8786
Simon Wakefield Lib Dem 3964
John Foreman New Labour 3942
David Haswell Plaid Cymru 1356
Independent Martin Bell 29,354 60.2% N/A
Conservative Mostyn Neil Hamilton 18,277 37.5 −17.6
Independent Conservative Sam Hill 295 0.6 N/A
Independent Conservative Simon Lowther Kinsey 184 0.4 N/A
Miss Moneypenny's Glamorous One Party Burnel Graig Penhaul 128 0.3 N/A
Albion Party John Richard Muir 126 0.3 N/A
Natural Law Michael Paul Kennedy 123 0.3 N/A
Lord Byro versus the Scallywag Tories David Laurence Bishop 116 0.2 N/A
Independent Conservative Ralph Nicholas 113 0.2 N/A
Juice Party Julian Matthew Price 73 0.1 N/A0 -
QuiteHYUFD said:
In which case the Tory posters at the next general election write themselves '172 Labour MPs didn't vote for Corbyn, so why should you?'PeterC said:
Yes. If Corbyn wins the PLP will need to row in behind him. Humiliating, yes - but they would have played for high stakes and lost. Splitting is like falling into a black hole.rkrkrk said:
Perfectly appropriate to have a leadership election- but if Corbyn wins it isn't appropriate to split the party. In electoral terms that will be much worse than just having a united (ish) party behind Corbyn. It will make it much harder to rebuild after.Artist said:
Labour aren't in a position where they can afford to have another election where they go backwards. They already need a 10% swing to get a majority. Going into an election with Corbyn could write off the next election before the government's next term has even started. 0 -
Simon Heffer has endorsed Leadsom in today's Sunday TelegraphPlatoSaid said:"Being a Christian helps make me a better politician." Andrea Leadsom.
Oh no sorry, it was actually @David_Cameron https://t.co/K4nx4ed7yX
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/09/andrea-leadsom-is-a-conservative-every-brexiteer-should-want-as/0 -
@PolhomeEditor: Andy Murray seems quite happy at "winning", seemingly oblivious to the fact it ultimately leads to defeat. 0
-
@EdConwaySky: Generous words from Murray to PM there, despite fact that his Wimbledon prize money has fallen $400k in dollar terms since the referendum0
-
Good to see you agree bringing children into it is vile.PlatoSaid said:Golly how vile
Oh, look, 21/6.
Cameron urges voters “think of the children” before deciding which way to vote in EU Ref.
https://t.co/Ze1S2vhqK0
Fancy that0 -
And it's something that politicians could and should have done something about - and could have done so if they'd just grasped the nettle on housing:nunu said:
I think that is right, because for most swing voters there has been no recovery, and many Leave voters have nothing to lose.MontyHall said:Also on the BBC Politics show today was a section, presented by a young woman from the remain campaign, analysing where it all went wrong for them.
Apparently, believing that parroting "It's the economy stupid" would resonate was one of their major misjudgements
0 -
He's never my cup of tea.HYUFD said:
Simon Heffer has endorsed Leadsom in today's Sunday TelegraphPlatoSaid said:"Being a Christian helps make me a better politician." Andrea Leadsom.
Oh no sorry, it was actually @David_Cameron https://t.co/K4nx4ed7yX
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/09/andrea-leadsom-is-a-conservative-every-brexiteer-should-want-as/
I simply think the EEA and City Remainers are ignoring 2.8m other plus a load of cultural others.0
