politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The chronology suggests that the momentum is with Leadsom
Comments
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Who'd be the Wankel Rotary Engine? I loved Top TrumpsRochdalePioneers said:
Would love to score Tory MPs like on Top Trumps. What categories would we have?LucyJones said:Oh come on! My 10-year-old could do all that in considerably less than an hour - and still have time for a couple of rounds of Top Trumps.
CONSERVATISM
INTELLIGENCE
BRAVERY
INSANITY RATING
EUROPHOBIA
SKIN THICKNESS
etc
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It is now abundantly clear that the Brexiteers had no intention of winning this referendum, and now they have they expect sensible Remainers to clear up their sorry mess.
Happy to oblige.
Strategy to clear mess is simple: abandon Brexit.0 -
Nah - they utterly failed - they started this and they cocked it up - bigstyle.Scott_P said:
@tnewtondunn: So; banks' capital reserves to be spent, deficit to go up back, AAA credit rating lost. Six years of economics reversed in 12 days #BrexitTGOHF said:You think history will be kind ?
I think history will be more kind to those who warned that this would be an epic fuckup than those who wished on a rainbow...0 -
That was the endTGOHF said:
Chose to have a referendumfelix said:
Idiot post of the day.TGOHF said:
DC and GO should be charged with dereliction of duty.MaxPB said:
Trying to get the Foreign Office in May's Cabinet!TGOHF said:
WTF is the CoTE doing then ?AlastairMeeks said:TALKING DOWN BRITAIN:
http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/publications/Documents/fsr/2016/fsrjul16sum.pdf
"There is evidence that some risks have begun to crystallise. The current outlook for UK financial stability is challenging."
Bungled the renegotiation
Were found to be totally out of touch with the voters
Chose useless pollsters
Ran an inept campaign
Lost the referendum
Spat out their dummies and hid in their bunkers.
History wont be kind...
Of Cameron Grundy0 -
I don't mind people complaining about the economy. But I hate this sort of pathetic point scoring that Twitter does. The UK lost its AAA rating with two of the three ratings agencies in 2013. There's no correlation with actual lending rates since 2008.Scott_P said:
@tnewtondunn: So; banks' capital reserves to be spent, deficit to go up back, AAA credit rating lost. Six years of economics reversed in 12 days #BrexitTGOHF said:You think history will be kind ?
I think history will be more kind to those who warned that this would be an epic fuckup than those who wished on a rainbow...
The EU lost its AAA rating in 2013 as well.
We're certainly going to have tough times. Only an idiot would think otherwise. But wanking over rating agencies is just sad.
The fundamental issue that the country has to address is our current account deficit. That's being paid for by FDI and equity investment inflows.0 -
In fairness you yourself would score highly on a number of those categories.RochdalePioneers said:
Would love to score Tory MPs like on Top Trumps. What categories would we have?LucyJones said:Oh come on! My 10-year-old could do all that in considerably less than an hour - and still have time for a couple of rounds of Top Trumps.
CONSERVATISM
INTELLIGENCE
BRAVERY
INSANITY RATING
EUROPHOBIA
SKIN THICKNESS
etc0 -
@patrickwintour: Dougan to Treas Sel Comm. French legal service has told French govt is that it would be possible for UK to trigger Art 50, and then revoke.0
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Mr. Bob, the credit rating is neither here nor there. Short term choppy waters are to be expected, the question is whether this is in our long term interests.
The people have spoken. Their decision can be respected, or held in contempt.0 -
It's amazing that those who are trying to bring about a split in the Labour party, with the intention of forming a new Centre-Left grouping to appeal to the 48% Remainers are forgetting one key fact which is that 70% of Labour held constituencies voted for LeavePlatoSaid said:
My favourite comment is from FordPrefect100AndyJS said:"Cameron gambled everything on the European referendum because he thought the centre was secure. He and George Osborne believed, as one of their cabinet allies told me: “It will be about jobs and the economy and it won’t even be close.”
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/05/how-remain-failed-inside-story-doomed-campaign
"In reality, the pro-EU arguments were supported by an overwhelming majority of economists, thinktanks, business leaders, diplomats and other professional bodies"
The problem was, and still is, that none of those "experts" are expert about what life is like for someone who lives on a council estate in Peterborough or Bolton, or who is an unemployed fisherman in Aberdeen.
And the people whose job it is to know - Labour MPs - don't know either, and don't care."
The simple but inescapable fact is that Labour won it for Leave! Perhaps someone should explain this to the likes of the foul-mouthed Charlotte Church and her fellow rebels.0 -
On the top trumps, it should be EU-phobia, not Europhobia. The EU is not Europe, unless you think the Romans were in Schengen.0
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Using Guido's figures:
Leadsom + Fox + 75% of Gove = 33% of declared Tory MPs.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/19mKbV0UnIbX_lbiinKiquP0ghiFpsMl0owUO6_TJyzI/htmlview?usp=sharing&pref=2&pli=1&sle=true0 -
We have http://sexymp.co.uk/ instead.LucyJones said:
I thought of something like that as I was writing about Top Trumps. A set of MP or Politician "Top Trumps" could make a nice little stocking-filler for certain political obsessives. I wouldn't mind one myself.RochdalePioneers said:
Would love to score Tory MPs like on Top Trumps. What categories would we have?LucyJones said:Oh come on! My 10-year-old could do all that in considerably less than an hour - and still have time for a couple of rounds of Top Trumps.
CONSERVATISM
INTELLIGENCE
BRAVERY
INSANITY RATING
EUROPHOBIA
SKIN THICKNESS
etc
I really liked the US Army Most Wanted playing cards - a great dual use little tactic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Most-wanted_Iraqi_playing_cards0 -
It's never a good idea to hold a referendum when one of the choices is not viable*. People often choose the non-viable option.TGOHF said:
Chose to have a referendumfelix said:
Idiot post of the day.TGOHF said:
DC and GO should be charged with dereliction of duty.MaxPB said:
Trying to get the Foreign Office in May's Cabinet!TGOHF said:
WTF is the CoTE doing then ?AlastairMeeks said:TALKING DOWN BRITAIN:
http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/publications/Documents/fsr/2016/fsrjul16sum.pdf
"There is evidence that some risks have begun to crystallise. The current outlook for UK financial stability is challenging."
Bungled the renegotiation
Were found to be totally out of touch with the voters
Chose useless pollsters
Ran an inept campaign
Lost the referendum
Spat out their dummies and hid in their bunkers.
History wont be kind...
* By viable I am talking degrees in this case. Our job now is to make the people's choice sort of work0 -
UKIP have performed a very useful function for the Tory Party, and by extension the country. If only the Socialist Workers Party had been as effective on the left.Bob__Sykes said:Does The Times poll not suggest that Tory members (who by definition have not over the past years jumped ship and joined UKIP) are not all a bunch of frothing UKIPpers?
Leadsom does have a good chance of becoming party leader. But the party is UKIP, and there is a vacancy.
I am buoyed and reassured by The Times poll.0 -
This also explains Corbyn.peter_from_putney said:
It's amazing that those who are trying to bring about a split in the Labour party, with the intention of forming a new Centre-Left grouping to appeal to the 48% Remainers are forgetting one key fact which is that 70% of Labour held constituencies voted for LeavePlatoSaid said:
My favourite comment is from FordPrefect100AndyJS said:"Cameron gambled everything on the European referendum because he thought the centre was secure. He and George Osborne believed, as one of their cabinet allies told me: “It will be about jobs and the economy and it won’t even be close.”
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/05/how-remain-failed-inside-story-doomed-campaign
"In reality, the pro-EU arguments were supported by an overwhelming majority of economists, thinktanks, business leaders, diplomats and other professional bodies"
The problem was, and still is, that none of those "experts" are expert about what life is like for someone who lives on a council estate in Peterborough or Bolton, or who is an unemployed fisherman in Aberdeen.
And the people whose job it is to know - Labour MPs - don't know either, and don't care."
The simple but inescapable fact is that Labour won it for Leave! Perhaps someone should explain this to the likes of the foul-mouthed Charlotte Church and her fellow rebels.
"No one on the remain side fully anticipated an emotional groundswell of contempt for the very idea of political authority as dispensed from a liberal citadel in Westminster. The remain politicians found themselves besieged by an angry insurrection, channelling grievances that were well known. They stood for a cause that became emblematic of a system that was alien, arrogant and remote – and they had no answer."
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What is your threshold for abandoning Brexit? What level of poor creditworthiness, mass unemployment, Sterling crash and international uncompetitiveness would you accept before folding your cards? They say every man has his price, what is yours?Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Bob, the credit rating is neither here nor there. Short term choppy waters are to be expected, the question is whether this is in our long term interests.
The people have spoken. Their decision can be respected, or held in contempt.0 -
I'm voting for MayScott_P said:
Andrea Leadsom...John_M said:We're certainly going to have tough times. Only an idiot would think otherwise.
. I think Leadsom is far too hopey-changey. She's the Brexit Obama. She needs a good five years of cabinet experience and a better track record before I'd even consider her. Mind you, I won't get a vote next time. 0 -
I have a memory from the halcyon days of the Coalition, of report of a Cabinet meeting where Immigration was discussed and Cameron said in exasperation that only May and him seemed serious about trying to meet the net migration target. Can't find it now but given the opposition of the LDs to many of the anti-immigration proposals made between 2010-2015 its not surprising that the migration figures have gone the wrong way - especially when they seemed to be going the right way for the first 2 years of the Coalition.Richard_Nabavi said:
Against this, the naysayers blame her for not reducing immigration. But no-one ever says what she is supposed to have done or not done in this respect.MarqueeMark said:May is not an ideal candidate by any means. Even without being a Remainer (albeit largely a silent one) her record at the Home Office seems to rest on her longevity in this political graveyard slot, rather than actually getting on top of any of the issues facing our borders and those who can pass through them.
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Or, better still - use the threat of carrying it out to negotiate a bloody good deal with the other 27 nations, that is in the UK's interests and that most of us can be happy with. Probably means a bespoke UK "EEAplus" arrangement, in order to not ride roughshod over the will of a narrow majority of the public or force us to go through it all again, but "in, in all but name" feels like my favoured option, and probably Theresa's.Jobabob said:It is now abundantly clear that the Brexiteers had no intention of winning this referendum, and now they have they expect sensible Remainers to clear up their sorry mess.
Happy to oblige.
Strategy to clear mess is simple: abandon Brexit.
Loony Leadsom wouldn't go for it though.0 -
I can't believe that so many of the vociferous PB remainers are still in denial! We are leaving the EU, get over it.0
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But, looking ahead, many Leavers may change their minds when it becomes clear that Project Fear was just Project Reality. Who knows, but so far things haven't been going well.peter_from_putney said:
It's amazing that those who are trying to bring about a split in the Labour party, with the intention of forming a new Centre-Left grouping to appeal to the 48% Remainers are forgetting one key fact which is that 70% of Labour held constituencies voted for LeavePlatoSaid said:
My favourite comment is from FordPrefect100AndyJS said:"Cameron gambled everything on the European referendum because he thought the centre was secure. He and George Osborne believed, as one of their cabinet allies told me: “It will be about jobs and the economy and it won’t even be close.”
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/05/how-remain-failed-inside-story-doomed-campaign
"In reality, the pro-EU arguments were supported by an overwhelming majority of economists, thinktanks, business leaders, diplomats and other professional bodies"
The problem was, and still is, that none of those "experts" are expert about what life is like for someone who lives on a council estate in Peterborough or Bolton, or who is an unemployed fisherman in Aberdeen.
And the people whose job it is to know - Labour MPs - don't know either, and don't care."
The simple but inescapable fact is that Labour won it for Leave! Perhaps someone should explain this to the likes of the foul-mouthed Charlotte Church and her fellow rebels.0 -
63% of Labour voters voted for Remain. That figure would have been higher had the party a decent europhile leader rather than a dismal marxist eurosceptic who did the square root of f all to help the Remain cause.peter_from_putney said:
It's amazing that those who are trying to bring about a split in the Labour party, with the intention of forming a new Centre-Left grouping to appeal to the 48% Remainers are forgetting one key fact which is that 70% of Labour held constituencies voted for LeavePlatoSaid said:
My favourite comment is from FordPrefect100AndyJS said:"Cameron gambled everything on the European referendum because he thought the centre was secure. He and George Osborne believed, as one of their cabinet allies told me: “It will be about jobs and the economy and it won’t even be close.”
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/05/how-remain-failed-inside-story-doomed-campaign
"In reality, the pro-EU arguments were supported by an overwhelming majority of economists, thinktanks, business leaders, diplomats and other professional bodies"
The problem was, and still is, that none of those "experts" are expert about what life is like for someone who lives on a council estate in Peterborough or Bolton, or who is an unemployed fisherman in Aberdeen.
And the people whose job it is to know - Labour MPs - don't know either, and don't care."
The simple but inescapable fact is that Labour won it for Leave! Perhaps someone should explain this to the likes of the foul-mouthed Charlotte Church and her fellow rebels.0 -
MaxPB said:
Yes I think the order is, Junior VP, Executive VP, Senior VP and VP.JonathanD said:
Of course it is. No need to get over excited about Leadsom's rather average career therefor.David_Evershed said:
It is title inflation.JonathanD said:
Sajid Javid was a Vice President at his bank in his 20s - youngest ever if I recall - I guess we should all be voting for him and Crabb then.CarlottaVance said:
Was that at her brother-in-law's firm?Luckyguy1983 said:
Whereas poor inexperienced Andrea was just heading up bank departments aged 30.AlastairMeeks said:
That's very unfair on IDS. He'd spent four years as a shadow Cabinet minister before standing for Leader of the Opposition.logical_song said:
Leadsom = IDS but this time as Prime Minister.AlastairMeeks said:It's all going to come down to whether Conservative members are looking to select the person who is most fit in the round to be Prime Minister or the person who is most sound on the subject of the EU. That the second is even potentially relevant shows just how crazed the electorate is.
Is a senior VP higher than a VP?
I thought she was Chief Investment Officer for 10 years at Invesco?0 -
Counter offer. Show me one reputable model that forecasts any of those, and I'll change my mind.Jobabob said:
What is your threshold for abandoning Brexit? What level of poor creditworthiness, mass unemployment, Sterling crash and international uncompetitiveness would you accept before folding your cards? They say every man has his price, what is yours?Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Bob, the credit rating is neither here nor there. Short term choppy waters are to be expected, the question is whether this is in our long term interests.
The people have spoken. Their decision can be respected, or held in contempt.
By reputable I mean any of the models aggregated by the IFS (so you have a choice of 13), the IMF and (only a summary) Standard & Poors. That's just fifteen I know of. I'm sure there maybe more.0 -
Agree that EU in all but name is the way to go.Bob__Sykes said:
Or, better still - use the threat of carrying it out to negotiate a bloody good deal with the other 27 nations, that is in the UK's interests and that most of us can be happy with. Probably means a bespoke UK "EEAplus" arrangement, in order to not ride roughshod over the will of a narrow majority of the public or force us to go through it all again, but "in, in all but name" feels like my favoured option, and probably Theresa's.Jobabob said:It is now abundantly clear that the Brexiteers had no intention of winning this referendum, and now they have they expect sensible Remainers to clear up their sorry mess.
Happy to oblige.
Strategy to clear mess is simple: abandon Brexit.
Loony Leadsom wouldn't go for it though.0 -
@patrickwintour: Dougan: To secure an EEA agreement, UK must avoid a veto by Swiss, 3 EFTA countries, 27 EU countries and European Parliament. 32 vetoes.
Oh.0 -
Call me a dinosaur but I happen to think the scrutinisation process is very important. If May is all she's cracked up to be and Leadsom is the duffer the Tory establishment dissemblers make out (hello TSE, Scott, Carlotta etc) May will emerge with flying colours and romp home. The one thing that will piss off members like myself is a ministerial/MP led stitch-up in respect of the candidates who appear on the ballor paper. Gove was a naughty boy but could be forgiven.stodge said:Morning again all
As was briefly mooted at the weekend, I do wonder whether IF May gets a convincing vote and indeed the majority of MPs, there will be intense pressure on Leadsom (if she is second) to stand down in favour of a top job in a May Cabinet.
There was a lot of "we need to get this over with" talk from some but how would the Conservative membership to being excluded from the process ? I do agree with OGH that a protracted campaign (apart from helping the sales of popcorn among those of us enjoying the Conservative dinosaurs tearing lumps out of each other) gives Leadsom a chance as it would allow people to scrutinise May more carefully.
The pro-EU dissidents and the Cameroons are rushing to back May - rather like overthrowing a Communist dictator and electing a Communist as your new leader.
That didn't happen anywhere, did it ?0 -
Mr. Bob, I've made my view clear for a while.
The EU is made on weak foundations, and it's a nonsensical arrangement doomed to failure. They'll integrate more for ideological purposes but strategic considerations of culture, economy and politics will pull it apart.
The longer it is exists, and the longer we're a member of it, the greater the pain of the unravelling. Better to take lesser pain now (and regain the ability to make our own way in the world) that let the rot fester and make the pain worse down the line.
I suspect we'll see widespread civil disorder in Europe during the course of my lifetime (assuming I don't pop my clogs early). The chance of a significant war is small, but grows as the EU's empire-building goes on.
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Boris knew there was no pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, but did think he might find the keys to No.10.Scott_P said:
Andrea Leadsom was one of themTheWhiteRabbit said:Only three people thought it was going to be rainbows.
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'Take back control of our borders' is not retrospective. It is from now on and in the future.Scott_P said:Can any of the Brexiteers reconcile "take back control of our borders" with "automatic leave to remain for all EU migrants" ?
The Uk does not approve of retrospective laws. One reason companies come here.0 -
Blue_rog said:
I can't believe that so many of the vociferous PB remainers are still in denial! We are leaving the EU, get over it.
Were the result reversed the eurosceptics would never have rolled over. Indeed Farage himself said a tight result should trigger a second referendum.
No way The 48 will rollover while a uneasy coalition of non-voters, bitter xenophobic failures and rightwing frothers sets about wilfully destroying the country and the economy. Sorry to break it to you.0 -
That bridge is crossed and burned behind us.Jobabob said:It is now abundantly clear that the Brexiteers had no intention of winning this referendum, and now they have they expect sensible Remainers to clear up their sorry mess.
Happy to oblige.
Strategy to clear mess is simple: abandon Brexit.
No senior politician has suggested anything other than BREXIT is on the cards -
I am in blood
Stepped in so far that, should I wade no more,
Returning were as tedious as go o'er.
In a way "Project Fear tell it like it is" helps with BREXIT because no one can reasonably say they weren't warned.0 -
But the Brexiteers are proposing one.David_Evershed said:The Uk does not approve of retrospective laws. One reason companies come here.
Curious.0 -
Certainly, nothing that has happened so far, and nothing that has been credibly projected. A reduction in the value of sterling is pretty trivial in the scheme of things.Jobabob said:
What is your threshold for abandoning Brexit? What level of poor creditworthiness, mass unemployment, Sterling crash and international uncompetitiveness would you accept before folding your cards? They say every man has his price, what is yours?Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Bob, the credit rating is neither here nor there. Short term choppy waters are to be expected, the question is whether this is in our long term interests.
The people have spoken. Their decision can be respected, or held in contempt.0 -
So what is your threshold? How many people on the dole – hypothetically – do you see as a price worth paying?Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Bob, I've made my view clear for a while.
The EU is made on weak foundations, and it's a nonsensical arrangement doomed to failure. They'll integrate more for ideological purposes but strategic considerations of culture, economy and politics will pull it apart.
The longer it is exists, and the longer we're a member of it, the greater the pain of the unravelling. Better to take lesser pain now (and regain the ability to make our own way in the world) that let the rot fester and make the pain worse down the line.
I suspect we'll see widespread civil disorder in Europe during the course of my lifetime (assuming I don't pop my clogs early). The chance of a significant war is small, but grows as the EU's empire-building goes on.0 -
Grief has a normal progression from denial through anger to acceptance.Blue_rog said:I can't believe that so many of the vociferous PB remainers are still in denial! We are leaving the EU, get over it.
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@GdnPolitics: Nigel Farage and Boris Johnson are unpatriotic quitters, says Juncker https://t.co/utlxzdFGJ10
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20yrs ago - I recruited for Amex and everyone seemed to be a VP of something. It equalled a middle manager of a team. It reminded me of sales titles - lots of nice puffing that doesn't equate to other industries.Charles said:
Private companies can do what they like.Ishmael_X said:
But surely never on the basis of mere family relationships?Charles said:
Bollocks.CarlottaVance said:
Was that at her brother-in-law's firm?Luckyguy1983 said:
Whereas poor inexperienced Andrea was just heading up bank departments aged 30.AlastairMeeks said:
That's very unfair on IDS. He'd spent four years as a shadow Cabinet minister before standing for Leader of the Opposition.logical_song said:
Leadsom = IDS but this time as Prime Minister.AlastairMeeks said:It's all going to come down to whether Conservative members are looking to select the person who is most fit in the round to be Prime Minister or the person who is most sound on the subject of the EU. That the second is even potentially relevant shows just how crazed the electorate is.
She was a "director" and then a "managing director".
Those titles are thrown around like confetti (to be MD less so) at banks.
But banks are very much of the confetti mode (heck, a US public company even made me a Director in my 20s...) although they are looking at making the MD role more challenging now.0 -
Perhaps if Remain had campaigned on "if we lose, we will simply give up running the country" rather on threatening punishment budgets they might have polled more votes..
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We'll see.Blue_rog said:I can't believe that so many of the vociferous PB remainers are still in denial! We are leaving the EU, get over it.
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It's been 12 days.Sean_F said:
Certainly, nothing that has happened so far, and nothing that has been credibly projected. A reduction in the value of sterling is pretty trivial in the scheme of things.Jobabob said:
What is your threshold for abandoning Brexit? What level of poor creditworthiness, mass unemployment, Sterling crash and international uncompetitiveness would you accept before folding your cards? They say every man has his price, what is yours?Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Bob, the credit rating is neither here nor there. Short term choppy waters are to be expected, the question is whether this is in our long term interests.
The people have spoken. Their decision can be respected, or held in contempt.
What's your threshold?0 -
I'm sure that Brexit supporters would still have campaigned to leave the EU if the result had been 52/48 the other way, but it's very unlikely that the current government would have given us a second referendum.Jobabob said:Blue_rog said:I can't believe that so many of the vociferous PB remainers are still in denial! We are leaving the EU, get over it.
Were the result reversed the eurosceptics would never have rolled over. Indeed Farage himself said a tight result should trigger a second referendum.
No way The 48 will rollover while a uneasy coalition of non-voters, bitter xenophobic failures and rightwing frothers sets about wilfully destroying the country and the economy. Sorry to break it to you.0 -
Bit early in the day. Even for him.Scott_P said:@GdnPolitics: Nigel Farage and Boris Johnson are unpatriotic quitters, says Juncker https://t.co/utlxzdFGJ1
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Mr. Bob, I'd probably take three Horsemen of the Apocalypse, but four would be excessive.0
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They aren't quite at the point where they will admit that any anger should be pointed at their own side ....David_Evershed said:
Grief has a normal progression from denial through anger to acceptance.Blue_rog said:I can't believe that so many of the vociferous PB remainers are still in denial! We are leaving the EU, get over it.
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What a ridiculous comment. The best way to improve the lives of people at the bottom of the pile is to make sure that the economy is as robust and as strong as possible. That's how you create wealth and get to redistribute it. And for Remainers the best way to do that was to stay an EU member state. Hopefully, the Remainers were wrong.PlatoSaid said:
My favourite comment is from FordPrefect100AndyJS said:"Cameron gambled everything on the European referendum because he thought the centre was secure. He and George Osborne believed, as one of their cabinet allies told me: “It will be about jobs and the economy and it won’t even be close.”
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/05/how-remain-failed-inside-story-doomed-campaign
"In reality, the pro-EU arguments were supported by an overwhelming majority of economists, thinktanks, business leaders, diplomats and other professional bodies"
The problem was, and still is, that none of those "experts" are expert about what life is like for someone who lives on a council estate in Peterborough or Bolton, or who is an unemployed fisherman in Aberdeen.
And the people whose job it is to know - Labour MPs - don't know either, and don't care."
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David_Evershed said:
Grief has a normal progression from denial through anger to acceptance.Blue_rog said:I can't believe that so many of the vociferous PB remainers are still in denial! We are leaving the EU, get over it.
Oh god the denial stage anger stage schtick.
Change the fucking record.0 -
Eh? What has been suggested?Scott_P said:
But the Brexiteers are proposing one.David_Evershed said:The Uk does not approve of retrospective laws. One reason companies come here.
Curious.0 -
If the world were plunged into something like the Depression of 1930-33 as a result of Brexit, I'd concede it had been a mistake.Jobabob said:
It's been 12 days.Sean_F said:
Certainly, nothing that has happened so far, and nothing that has been credibly projected. A reduction in the value of sterling is pretty trivial in the scheme of things.Jobabob said:
What is your threshold for abandoning Brexit? What level of poor creditworthiness, mass unemployment, Sterling crash and international uncompetitiveness would you accept before folding your cards? They say every man has his price, what is yours?Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Bob, the credit rating is neither here nor there. Short term choppy waters are to be expected, the question is whether this is in our long term interests.
The people have spoken. Their decision can be respected, or held in contempt.
What's your threshold?0 -
Au contraire, I am bloody angry at Cameron for getting us into this mess and at Labour's pathetic campaign.TGOHF said:
They aren't quite at the point where they will admit that any anger should be pointed at their own side ....David_Evershed said:
Grief has a normal progression from denial through anger to acceptance.Blue_rog said:I can't believe that so many of the vociferous PB remainers are still in denial! We are leaving the EU, get over it.
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Following the lower credit rating the Uk has been able to borrow at a new all time low interest rate. So it has no practical affect.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Bob, the credit rating is neither here nor there. Short term choppy waters are to be expected, the question is whether this is in our long term interests.
The people have spoken. Their decision can be respected, or held in contempt.0 -
And there we have it. Pretty much anything is a price worth paying.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Bob, I'd probably take three Horsemen of the Apocalypse, but four would be excessive.
The true voice of a europhobe.0 -
But you only get to implement a strong economy if you can convince enough people to vote for you - not rocket science.SouthamObserver said:
What a ridiculous comment. The best way to improve the lives of people at the bottom of the pile is to make sure that the economy is as robust and as strong as possible. That's how you create wealth and get to redistribute it. And for Remainers the best way to do that was to stay an EU member state. Hopefully, the Remainers were wrong.PlatoSaid said:
My favourite comment is from FordPrefect100AndyJS said:"Cameron gambled everything on the European referendum because he thought the centre was secure. He and George Osborne believed, as one of their cabinet allies told me: “It will be about jobs and the economy and it won’t even be close.”
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/05/how-remain-failed-inside-story-doomed-campaign
"In reality, the pro-EU arguments were supported by an overwhelming majority of economists, thinktanks, business leaders, diplomats and other professional bodies"
The problem was, and still is, that none of those "experts" are expert about what life is like for someone who lives on a council estate in Peterborough or Bolton, or who is an unemployed fisherman in Aberdeen.
And the people whose job it is to know - Labour MPs - don't know either, and don't care."0 -
Remainers are Jack Spratt, Leavers are his wifeMonikerDiCanio said:
That was the endTGOHF said:
Chose to have a referendumfelix said:
Idiot post of the day.TGOHF said:
DC and GO should be charged with dereliction of duty.MaxPB said:
Trying to get the Foreign Office in May's Cabinet!TGOHF said:
WTF is the CoTE doing then ?AlastairMeeks said:TALKING DOWN BRITAIN:
http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/publications/Documents/fsr/2016/fsrjul16sum.pdf
"There is evidence that some risks have begun to crystallise. The current outlook for UK financial stability is challenging."
Bungled the renegotiation
Were found to be totally out of touch with the voters
Chose useless pollsters
Ran an inept campaign
Lost the referendum
Spat out their dummies and hid in their bunkers.
History wont be kind...
Of Cameron Grundy
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Scott_P said:
@GdnPolitics: Nigel Farage and Boris Johnson are unpatriotic quitters, says Juncker https://t.co/utlxzdFGJ1
Nobody cares what Junker says anymore, if they ever did.
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It's very unlikely we will get a second referendum either.Sean_F said:
I'm sure that Brexit supporters would still have campaigned to leave the EU if the result had been 52/48 the other way, but it's very unlikely that the current government would have given us a second referendum.Jobabob said:Blue_rog said:I can't believe that so many of the vociferous PB remainers are still in denial! We are leaving the EU, get over it.
Were the result reversed the eurosceptics would never have rolled over. Indeed Farage himself said a tight result should trigger a second referendum.
No way The 48 will rollover while a uneasy coalition of non-voters, bitter xenophobic failures and rightwing frothers sets about wilfully destroying the country and the economy. Sorry to break it to you.
But the idea that The 48 should just now rollover is bollocks, and would not have been the outcome were the result reversed.0 -
Mr. Bob, either that, or I was not treating your wailing and gnashing of teeth with the utmost seriousness
Mr. Evershed, indeed. The balance of changes have been negative but there have been some upsides (for exporters, for example).0 -
I'd anticipate a similar situation to when immigration controls were introduced for Commonwealth Immigrants in 1962.Philip_Thompson said:
Yes it is called a Grandfather ClauseScott_P said:Can any of the Brexiteers reconcile "take back control of our borders" with "automatic leave to remain for all EU migrants" ?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grandfather_clause0 -
CarlottaVance said:
That bridge is crossed and burned behind us.Jobabob said:It is now abundantly clear that the Brexiteers had no intention of winning this referendum, and now they have they expect sensible Remainers to clear up their sorry mess.
Happy to oblige.
Strategy to clear mess is simple: abandon Brexit.
No senior politician has suggested anything other than BREXIT is on the cards -
I am in blood
Stepped in so far that, should I wade no more,
Returning were as tedious as go o'er.
In a way "Project Fear tell it like it is" helps with BREXIT because no one can reasonably say they weren't warned.
We are still in the EU. We are a member of the European Union.
No bridge has yet been crossed!0 -
Yawn....and if Leave had campaigned on "if we win we won't have a clue what to do" rather than picking random numbers and pledging them to the NHS they'd probably have lost.TGOHF said:Perhaps if Remain had campaigned on "if we lose, we will simply give up running the country" rather on threatening punishment budgets they might have polled more votes..
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What is your threshold?Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Bob, either that, or I was not treating your wailing and gnashing of teeth with the utmost seriousness
Mr. Evershed, indeed. The balance of changes have been negative but there have been some upsides (for exporters, for example).0 -
But you don't seem to place a value on anything other than money.Jobabob said:
And there we have it. Pretty much anything is a price worth paying.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Bob, I'd probably take three Horsemen of the Apocalypse, but four would be excessive.
The true voice of a europhobe.0 -
Anything slightly less than that is okay?Sean_F said:
If the world were plunged into something like the Depression of 1930-33 as a result of Brexit, I'd concede it had been a mistake.Jobabob said:
It's been 12 days.Sean_F said:
Certainly, nothing that has happened so far, and nothing that has been credibly projected. A reduction in the value of sterling is pretty trivial in the scheme of things.Jobabob said:
What is your threshold for abandoning Brexit? What level of poor creditworthiness, mass unemployment, Sterling crash and international uncompetitiveness would you accept before folding your cards? They say every man has his price, what is yours?Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Bob, the credit rating is neither here nor there. Short term choppy waters are to be expected, the question is whether this is in our long term interests.
The people have spoken. Their decision can be respected, or held in contempt.
What's your threshold?0 -
rottenborough said:
Au contraire, I am bloody angry at Cameron for getting us into this mess and at Labour's pathetic campaign.TGOHF said:
They aren't quite at the point where they will admit that any anger should be pointed at their own side ....David_Evershed said:
Grief has a normal progression from denial through anger to acceptance.Blue_rog said:I can't believe that so many of the vociferous PB remainers are still in denial! We are leaving the EU, get over it.
Quite – as many of us have said numerous times. Clearly many Leavers cannot read.0 -
Polititically it has.Jobabob said:CarlottaVance said:
That bridge is crossed and burned behind us.Jobabob said:It is now abundantly clear that the Brexiteers had no intention of winning this referendum, and now they have they expect sensible Remainers to clear up their sorry mess.
Happy to oblige.
Strategy to clear mess is simple: abandon Brexit.
No senior politician has suggested anything other than BREXIT is on the cards -
I am in blood
Stepped in so far that, should I wade no more,
Returning were as tedious as go o'er.
In a way "Project Fear tell it like it is" helps with BREXIT because no one can reasonably say they weren't warned.
We are still in the EU. We are a member of the European Union.
No bridge has yet been crossed!0 -
Precisely. The decision has been taken, Brexit means Brexit. We need to move on to making the best of it. The way to do that is not to stick our heads in the sand and deny that we are seeing severe economic damage. That should be a position that people can unite around.Sean_F said:I'm sure that Brexit supporters would still have campaigned to leave the EU if the result had been 52/48 the other way, but it's very unlikely that the current government would have given us a second referendum.
0 -
Mr. Bob, you're very insistent and angry. Have you considered reading The Adventures of Sir Edric, a wonderful comedy guaranteed to relax your spirit and soothe your worries?
Nothing that's happened so far is dreadful. We need to wait and see what the new PM's approach is.0 -
The referendum was called by the PM and the CoTE - they are responsible for everything afterwards.midwinter said:
Yawn....and if Leave had campaigned on "if we win we won't have a clue what to do" rather than picking random numbers and pledging them to the NHS they'd probably have lost.TGOHF said:Perhaps if Remain had campaigned on "if we lose, we will simply give up running the country" rather on threatening punishment budgets they might have polled more votes..
0 -
It seems you have gone beyond denial and reached the anger stage.Jobabob said:David_Evershed said:
Grief has a normal progression from denial through anger to acceptance.Blue_rog said:I can't believe that so many of the vociferous PB remainers are still in denial! We are leaving the EU, get over it.
Oh god the denial stage anger stage schtick.
Change the fucking record. 0 -
Third idiot post of the dayDavid_Evershed said:
It seems you have gone beyond denial and reached the anger stage.Jobabob said:David_Evershed said:
Grief has a normal progression from denial through anger to acceptance.Blue_rog said:I can't believe that so many of the vociferous PB remainers are still in denial! We are leaving the EU, get over it.
Oh god the denial stage anger stage schtick.
Change the fucking record.0 -
Morris_Dancer said:
Mr. Bob, you're very insistent and angry. Have you considered reading The Adventures of Sir Edric, a wonderful comedy guaranteed to relax your spirit and soothe your worries?
Nothing that's happened so far is dreadful. We need to wait and see what the new PM's approach is.
What's your threshold?0 -
LibDems:
"The FPC’s report confirmed that our economy is now in serious danger as business confidence evaporates. Every single job lost, every deal cancelled and every home foreclosed will be on the hands of those who promised the earth but offer no clear picture for our future relationship with Europe."0 -
What it does show is the power of airbrushing in the photos that journalists have attached to their columns.TCPoliticalBetting said:James Ball @jamesrbuk
Not sure this week's Private Eye cover is great for Sarah Vine.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cml3baEWcAAUcdF.jpg:small0 -
Wrong - she talks incessantly about 'sunlit uplands'Scott_P said:
Andrea Leadsom was one of themTheWhiteRabbit said:Only three people thought it was going to be rainbows.
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Jobabob surely places no value on democracy. An awful man.Sean_F said:
But you don't seem to place a value on anything other than money.Jobabob said:
And there we have it. Pretty much anything is a price worth paying.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Bob, I'd probably take three Horsemen of the Apocalypse, but four would be excessive.
The true voice of a europhobe.0 -
Yes, that I concede. So we need May to somehow get us EU in all but name and then we can get on with our lives.CarlottaVance said:
Polititically it has.Jobabob said:CarlottaVance said:
That bridge is crossed and burned behind us.Jobabob said:It is now abundantly clear that the Brexiteers had no intention of winning this referendum, and now they have they expect sensible Remainers to clear up their sorry mess.
Happy to oblige.
Strategy to clear mess is simple: abandon Brexit.
No senior politician has suggested anything other than BREXIT is on the cards -
I am in blood
Stepped in so far that, should I wade no more,
Returning were as tedious as go o'er.
In a way "Project Fear tell it like it is" helps with BREXIT because no one can reasonably say they weren't warned.
We are still in the EU. We are a member of the European Union.
No bridge has yet been crossed!0 -
Sean_F said:
But you don't seem to place a value on anything other than money.Jobabob said:
And there we have it. Pretty much anything is a price worth paying.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Bob, I'd probably take three Horsemen of the Apocalypse, but four would be excessive.
The true voice of a europhobe.
I place a value on many things. A well functioning successful economy is one of the prime ones.0 -
It's hilarious. Most of the country are moving on and looking to the future and a few on PB are stamping their feet like toddlers predicting the end of the world.Blue_rog said:I can't believe that so many of the vociferous PB remainers are still in denial! We are leaving the EU, get over it.
0 -
Senior Investment Officer, which is lower than Chief IO.David_Evershed said:MaxPB said:
Yes I think the order is, Junior VP, Executive VP, Senior VP and VP.JonathanD said:
Of course it is. No need to get over excited about Leadsom's rather average career therefor.David_Evershed said:
It is title inflation.JonathanD said:
Sajid Javid was a Vice President at his bank in his 20s - youngest ever if I recall - I guess we should all be voting for him and Crabb then.CarlottaVance said:
Was that at her brother-in-law's firm?Luckyguy1983 said:
Whereas poor inexperienced Andrea was just heading up bank departments aged 30.AlastairMeeks said:
That's very unfair on IDS. He'd spent four years as a shadow Cabinet minister before standing for Leader of the Opposition.logical_song said:
Leadsom = IDS but this time as Prime Minister.AlastairMeeks said:It's all going to come down to whether Conservative members are looking to select the person who is most fit in the round to be Prime Minister or the person who is most sound on the subject of the EU. That the second is even potentially relevant shows just how crazed the electorate is.
I thought she was Chief Investment Officer for 10 years at Invesco?
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There's a trade-off between sovereignty, democracy, and money. It's a mistake to treat only one of those three as being important.MonikerDiCanio said:
Jobabob surely places no value on democracy. An awful man.Sean_F said:
But you don't seem to place a value on anything other than money.Jobabob said:
And there we have it. Pretty much anything is a price worth paying.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Bob, I'd probably take three Horsemen of the Apocalypse, but four would be excessive.
The true voice of a europhobe.0 -
Bank Ds & MDs are exactly that - sales titles.PlatoSaid said:
20yrs ago - I recruited for Amex and everyone seemed to be a VP of something. It equalled a middle manager of a team. It reminded me of sales titles - lots of nice puffing that doesn't equate to other industries.Charles said:
Private companies can do what they like.Ishmael_X said:
But surely never on the basis of mere family relationships?Charles said:
Bollocks.CarlottaVance said:
Was that at her brother-in-law's firm?Luckyguy1983 said:
Whereas poor inexperienced Andrea was just heading up bank departments aged 30.AlastairMeeks said:
That's very unfair on IDS. He'd spent four years as a shadow Cabinet minister before standing for Leader of the Opposition.logical_song said:
Leadsom = IDS but this time as Prime Minister.AlastairMeeks said:It's all going to come down to whether Conservative members are looking to select the person who is most fit in the round to be Prime Minister or the person who is most sound on the subject of the EU. That the second is even potentially relevant shows just how crazed the electorate is.
She was a "director" and then a "managing director".
Those titles are thrown around like confetti (to be MD less so) at banks.
But banks are very much of the confetti mode (heck, a US public company even made me a Director in my 20s...) although they are looking at making the MD role more challenging now.
When I speak to CEOs and owners of companies it makes a difference that I can call myself a Managing Director.0 -
midwinter said:
Yawn....and if Leave had campaigned on "if we win we won't have a clue what to do" rather than picking random numbers and pledging them to the NHS they'd probably have lost.TGOHF said:Perhaps if Remain had campaigned on "if we lose, we will simply give up running the country" rather on threatening punishment budgets they might have polled more votes..
Indeed. And if Leave hadn't run the most mendacious nakedly racist national campaign of outright lies in UK political history they would certainly have lost.
Funny old world.0 -
As the leading leavers exit stage right..."I have a bad feeling about this"
Personally have today sold all my pension investments (other than the gold fund) and intend watching from the sidelines until late autumn. Cash is trash as they say but investment risk not for me at the moment. Too much downside risk I fear. I could be the new henchman...gawd help me0 -
Wel said Mr Nabavi.Richard_Nabavi said:
Precisely. The decision has been taken, Brexit means Brexit. We need to move on to making the best of it. The way to do that is not to stick our heads in the sand and deny that we are seeing severe economic damage. That should be a position that people can unite around.Sean_F said:I'm sure that Brexit supporters would still have campaigned to leave the EU if the result had been 52/48 the other way, but it's very unlikely that the current government would have given us a second referendum.
0 -
A few on PB have their heads stuckBrom said:It's hilarious. Most of the country are moving on and looking to the future and a few on PB are stamping their feet like toddlers predicting the end of the world.
up their arsein the sand about the realities of Brexit.
@DPJHodges: When you say to Outers "you're going to have to take responsibility for what happens now" they seem to get a little panicky. Instructive.0 -
And maybe you would have won, had you run a competent campaign, or engaged in a serious effort to reform the EU in a direction that would have appealed to people in this country.Jobabob said:midwinter said:
Yawn....and if Leave had campaigned on "if we win we won't have a clue what to do" rather than picking random numbers and pledging them to the NHS they'd probably have lost.TGOHF said:Perhaps if Remain had campaigned on "if we lose, we will simply give up running the country" rather on threatening punishment budgets they might have polled more votes..
Indeed. And if Leave hadn't run the most mendacious nakedly racist national campaign of outright lies in UK political history they would certainly have lost.
Funny old world.
0 -
Perhaps that should have been what they put on the side of the bus.David_Evershed said:
'Take back control of our borders' is not retrospective. It is from now on and in the future.Scott_P said:Can any of the Brexiteers reconcile "take back control of our borders" with "automatic leave to remain for all EU migrants" ?
The Uk does not approve of retrospective laws. One reason companies come here.0 -
What's your threshold?MonikerDiCanio said:
Jobabob surely places no value on democracy. An awful man.Sean_F said:
But you don't seem to place a value on anything other than money.Jobabob said:
And there we have it. Pretty much anything is a price worth paying.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Bob, I'd probably take three Horsemen of the Apocalypse, but four would be excessive.
The true voice of a europhobe.0 -
anger won't help your situation, maybe politics isn't the right sphere for you if you dont like lies. Never mind, there's always the 2020 general election to cheer you upJobabob said:midwinter said:
Yawn....and if Leave had campaigned on "if we win we won't have a clue what to do" rather than picking random numbers and pledging them to the NHS they'd probably have lost.TGOHF said:Perhaps if Remain had campaigned on "if we lose, we will simply give up running the country" rather on threatening punishment budgets they might have polled more votes..
Indeed. And if Leave hadn't run the most mendacious nakedly racist national campaign of outright lies in UK political history they would certainly have lost.
Funny old world. 0 -
What's your threshold?Sean_F said:
There's a trade-off between sovereignty, democracy, and money. It's a mistake to treat only one of those three as being important.MonikerDiCanio said:
Jobabob surely places no value on democracy. An awful man.Sean_F said:
But you don't seem to place a value on anything other than money.Jobabob said:
And there we have it. Pretty much anything is a price worth paying.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Bob, I'd probably take three Horsemen of the Apocalypse, but four would be excessive.
The true voice of a europhobe.0 -
Even Danny Blanchflower got this one right
@D_Blanchflower: $1.3187 and falling the experts did warn you this would happen
That's how messed up we are...0 -
Job titles can matter, but generally they carry the same weight as one of those fancy car registration plates.0
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Brom said:
It's hilarious. Most of the country are moving on and looking to the future and a few on PB are stamping their feet like toddlers predicting the end of the world.Blue_rog said:I can't believe that so many of the vociferous PB remainers are still in denial! We are leaving the EU, get over it.
There is no evidence for that contention. Indeed all surveys and anecdotes suggest quite the opposite – that the two sides are unwilling to back down and the national is utterly, horribly divided.0 -
Functioning for who though? If you're one of the people which can't find jobs, can't get housing etc etc, then you don't give a toss about GDP.Jobabob said:Sean_F said:
But you don't seem to place a value on anything other than money.Jobabob said:
And there we have it. Pretty much anything is a price worth paying.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Bob, I'd probably take three Horsemen of the Apocalypse, but four would be excessive.
The true voice of a europhobe.
I place a value on many things. A well functioning successful economy is one of the prime ones.0 -
Great news for exporters. The leavers said this could happen too but that it would be good news.Scott_P said:Even Danny Blanchflower got this one right
@D_Blanchflower: $1.3187 and falling the experts did warn you this would happen
That's how messed up we are...0 -
and when you quote Dan Hodges it shows that you have no grasp of what's really happening. It's a shame both sides couldn't win but that is life, you can remain bitter for the rest of your days or maybe try and look positively to the future like the rest of us.Scott_P said:
A few on PB have their heads stuckBrom said:It's hilarious. Most of the country are moving on and looking to the future and a few on PB are stamping their feet like toddlers predicting the end of the world.
up their arsein the sand about the realities of Brexit.
@DPJHodges: When you say to Outers "you're going to have to take responsibility for what happens now" they seem to get a little panicky. Instructive.0 -
Yeah and cutting ourselves off from the world is really going to help those people.Slackbladder said:
Functioning for who though? If you're one of the people which can't find jobs, can't get housing etc etc, then you don't give a toss about GDP.Jobabob said:Sean_F said:
But you don't seem to place a value on anything other than money.Jobabob said:
And there we have it. Pretty much anything is a price worth paying.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Bob, I'd probably take three Horsemen of the Apocalypse, but four would be excessive.
The true voice of a europhobe.
I place a value on many things. A well functioning successful economy is one of the prime ones.
0 -
hunchman, I think?Scrapheap_as_was said:As the leading leavers exit stage right..."I have a bad feeling about this"
Personally have today sold all my pension investments (other than the gold fund) and intend watching from the sidelines until late autumn. Cash is trash as they say but investment risk not for me at the moment. Too much downside risk I fear. I could be the new henchman...gawd help me0 -
Yet another idiot post. Maybe you should stop posting here and listen to Mr. Carney for a few minutes.TGOHF said:Perhaps if Remain had campaigned on "if we lose, we will simply give up running the country" rather on threatening punishment budgets they might have polled more votes..
0
