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2. May has remained popular amongst BOTH Remain and Leave voters, unlike any other leadership contender0
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@DPJHodges: Told Angela Eagle definitely launching at 3.00 pm tomorrow.
Getting slightly ridiculous now...0 -
As a Tory I would be very happy if Labour choose her.bigjohnowls said:
I think Angela Eagle would be hopeless. The Tories must be praying for her to winJonathan said:
Nick Palmer and BigJohnOwls are clearly pulling for the Tories at the moment. You should give them a vote.JohnO said:Just of interest how many posters here will actually be part of the Tory 'selectorate'?
Apart from me, there is Richard N, TSE, Max, Casino, Plato, Concanvasser...must be more surely? So far I count 5 for May, 2 for Johnson.
Perhaps you could list her qualities apart from being able to turn on the waterworks at will.
Why do you think she is the anything other than a disaster
4TH OUT OF 5 for Deputy last time suddenly your favoured candidate.
The PLP sparked a crisis then wanted to impose Jarvis without a vote
Insulting to any Democratic Socialist IMO.
What does your CLP think.
Mine is seething
Big John is right She would be a polling disaster waiting to happen.0 -
I got the impression Johnson knows very little about the EU. There was no depth to his arguments.Pulpstar said:I have to say that Alan Johnson'sw performance in the Brexit campaign was utterly appalling. I didn't even know he was in charge of Labour remain.
Shameful to go after Corbyn on this given the glass house he is in .0 -
Yes. Will be Team Theresa unless something unexpected happens.TheScreamingEagles said:
Tissue Price and David Herdson also have votesJohnO said:Just of interest how many posters here will actually be part of the Tory 'selectorate'?
Apart from me, there is Richard N, TSE, Max, Casino, Plato, Concanvasser...must be more surely? So far I count 5 for May, 2 for Johnson.
And Marquee Mark I think too0 -
Could Crabb's campaign catch fire and take people by surprise? Maybe if Davidson makes a barnstorming speech on his behalf?Pong said:
Both the Boris and May camps have the same 2 aims right now;GIN1138 said:
We know it's going to be between Boris and Theresa... All these other non entities like Crabb and Fox are doing is holding up the UK getting a new Prime Minister at a time of crisis. They should all stand aside tomorrow, let Boris and Theresa go through and then we could have a new PM/Chancellor by the end of July.TheScreamingEagles said:
Firstly, to get onto the members ballot. Secondly, to have Crabb as their opponent on the members ballot.0 -
Personally I think it's too early to write off Boris. If he goes through to the final two there will be "hustings" with the membership, TV debates, etc. As we saw from the referendum debates he can play it straight and get serious... Don't be surprised if he wins over a lot of members who are currently pretty dubious about him in the coming weeks.
I think it's wide open between Boris and Theresa to be honest but beyond these two I just can't see anybody else having the "clout" for this.0 -
To take out Corbzilla, they're going to have to take off and nuke him from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.tyson said:
I think the PLP realises it cannot take out Jeremy Corbyn, twat, with Dear Auntie Mabel, god bless her, she can make a nice scones, but killing Jezza is another matter.rottenborough said:What the * is going on. Hodges now reporting that there may not be a leadership bid tomorrow and Owen Smith taking soundings.
Owen Smith....who is he. If he took soundings, I would say...Who the fuck are you?0 -
Nope, government by fax. I don't see a scenario where we would do that though unless it was very favourable and the EU had adopted our ideas in the formation stages but the EFTA nations didn't want it.TOPPING said:
Presumably Brussels could fax over the legislation and we would simply adopt that?Charles said:
If nothing else worked, presumably Parliament could copy paste the regulation into a law and pass that.TOPPING said:
You say we can't impose [EU] legislation on EFTA states and vice versa and that is good. But is the corollary of that that if it is vetoed from being incorporated into the EEA Agreement by another EEA/EFTA state, we can unilaterally adopt it. What would be the mechanism by which we could do that?
Max made it sound as though there was something more formal than that.0 -
(((Dan Hodges))) @DPJHodges 2m2 minutes ago
Told Angela Eagle definitely launching at 3.00 pm tomorrow.
We are back on.0 -
A shame they didn't pair May with anyone other than Boris, would have been interesting to explore that hypothetical.TheScreamingEagles said:twitter.com/SamCoatesTimes/status/748265126067855360
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I hope someone sends one in without filling in the details.Jobabob said:
I'm assuming some whizz kid has created a Labour resignation letter generator by nowkle4 said:
Well, at least it's not another 'I like and respect you but you are not the man for the party to help people' letter.Scott_P said:@jreedmp: My letter to @jeremycorbyn tonight. https://t.co/QHYkhs7sx0
I wonder how many of these Corbyn's actually read? After the 10th 'You're a bit crap' letter, I'd probably stop.
Opening with how David Cameron spoke for most Labour Mps and voters may have been an odd choice. Reed also not about to let McDonnel fill the void either it seems.
"It is with great [insert emotion] that I must resign my position as shadow [insert nonentity of post here].
I have great respect/deep loathing delete as appropriate for you, but feel you are a cancer/not able to unite the party delete as appropriate
And so on and so forth0 -
Looks like Boris needs to lend his MPs to candidates who aren't Mrs May0
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That's odd. The breakdown numbers make it look like a Boris walkover.TheScreamingEagles said:twitter.com/SamCoatesTimes/status/748265648833310724
(Not looking good for Leadsom.
)
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*Could* not *would*TOPPING said:
Presumably Brussels could fax over the legislation and we would simply adopt that?Charles said:
If nothing else worked, presumably Parliament could copy paste the regulation into a law and pass that.TOPPING said:
You say we can't impose [EU] legislation on EFTA states and vice versa and that is good. But is the corollary of that that if it is vetoed from being incorporated into the EEA Agreement by another EEA/EFTA state, we can unilaterally adopt it. What would be the mechanism by which we could do that?
Max made it sound as though there was something more formal than that.
Big difference.
We're in control.0 -
AndreaParma_82
Actually with the CLP information Andrea has posted i think the chances of a Corbyn defeat are a bit higher than i posted earlier.
Still think AE very unlikely to win though
Watson it could be quite close.
Really needs a Burnham or Lewis to go all post Jezza though i think0 -
Calls for a perilous exercise in vote lending.Pong said:
Both the Boris and May camps have the same 2 aims right now;GIN1138 said:
We know it's going to be between Boris and Theresa... All these other non entities like Crabb and Fox are doing is holding up the UK getting a new Prime Minister at a time of crisis. They should all stand aside tomorrow, let Boris and Theresa go through and then we could have a new PM/Chancellor by the end of July.TheScreamingEagles said:
Firstly, to get onto the ballot of the party members. Secondly, to have Crabb as their opponent on the ballot of the party members.0 -
Angela Eagle has made an absolute laughing stock with this on-off on-off pissing around. I hope she runs and gets run over by Jezza.
Death to Labour.0 -
I just don't understand Ms May's appeal.TheScreamingEagles said:2. May has remained popular amongst BOTH Remain and Leave voters, unlike any other leadership contender
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Isn't Corbyn a Trot?SeanT said:
It occurred to me today their best is to reanimate the corpse of Lenin, in Red Square, and get a ventriloquist to work Lenin's dried up mouth, ordering Corbyn to resignJohn_M said:
To take out Corbzilla, they're going to have to take off and nuke him from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.tyson said:
I think the PLP realises it cannot take out Jeremy Corbyn, twat, with Dear Auntie Mabel, god bless her, she can make a nice scones, but killing Jezza is another matter.rottenborough said:What the * is going on. Hodges now reporting that there may not be a leadership bid tomorrow and Owen Smith taking soundings.
Owen Smith....who is he. If he took soundings, I would say...Who the fuck are you?
Absent that, he won't budge0 -
He opposed gay marriage though.....Wanderer said:
Could Crabb's campaign catch fire and take people by surprise? Maybe if Davidson makes a barnstorming speech on his behalf?Pong said:
Both the Boris and May camps have the same 2 aims right now;GIN1138 said:
We know it's going to be between Boris and Theresa... All these other non entities like Crabb and Fox are doing is holding up the UK getting a new Prime Minister at a time of crisis. They should all stand aside tomorrow, let Boris and Theresa go through and then we could have a new PM/Chancellor by the end of July.TheScreamingEagles said:
Firstly, to get onto the members ballot. Secondly, to have Crabb as their opponent on the members ballot.0 -
With all the agro sloshing around, recriminations and accusations, I'd just like to report that I am finding that ordinary English people in my every day life are still by and large being very decent and helpful to one another. It seems that some of our leaders might consider going back to basics too.0
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Aren't Karl Marx's remains much more accessible?SeanT said:
It occurred to me today their best is to reanimate the corpse of Lenin, in Red Square, and get a ventriloquist to work Lenin's dried up mouth, ordering Corbyn to resignJohn_M said:
To take out Corbzilla, they're going to have to take off and nuke him from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.tyson said:
I think the PLP realises it cannot take out Jeremy Corbyn, twat, with Dear Auntie Mabel, god bless her, she can make a nice scones, but killing Jezza is another matter.rottenborough said:What the * is going on. Hodges now reporting that there may not be a leadership bid tomorrow and Owen Smith taking soundings.
Owen Smith....who is he. If he took soundings, I would say...Who the fuck are you?
Absent that, he won't budge0 -
Tough decisions, competence and uniting the Conservative party.TheScreamingEagles said:twitter.com/SamCoatesTimes/status/748265648833310724
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well indeed I had the courtesy to insert aMaxPB said:
Nope, government by fax. I don't see a scenario where we would do that though unless it was very favourable and the EU had adopted our ideas in the formation stages but the EFTA nations didn't want it.TOPPING said:
Presumably Brussels could fax over the legislation and we would simply adopt that?Charles said:
If nothing else worked, presumably Parliament could copy paste the regulation into a law and pass that.TOPPING said:
You say we can't impose [EU] legislation on EFTA states and vice versa and that is good. But is the corollary of that that if it is vetoed from being incorporated into the EEA Agreement by another EEA/EFTA state, we can unilaterally adopt it. What would be the mechanism by which we could do that?
Max made it sound as though there was something more formal than that.
So what is the mechanism for unilateral adoption of a piece of EU legislation that a(nother by that stage) EEA/EFTA state has vetoed from the EEA Agreement?
Where's our GOM of the EEA?0 -
They all seem to have shitty letterheads too.kle4 said:
I hope someone sends one in without filling in the details.Jobabob said:
I'm assuming some whizz kid has created a Labour resignation letter generator by nowkle4 said:
Well, at least it's not another 'I like and respect you but you are not the man for the party to help people' letter.Scott_P said:@jreedmp: My letter to @jeremycorbyn tonight. https://t.co/QHYkhs7sx0
I wonder how many of these Corbyn's actually read? After the 10th 'You're a bit crap' letter, I'd probably stop.
Opening with how David Cameron spoke for most Labour Mps and voters may have been an odd choice. Reed also not about to let McDonnel fill the void either it seems.
"It is with great [insert emotion] that I must resign my position as shadow [insert nonentity of post here].
I have great respect/deep loathing delete as appropriate for you, but feel you are a cancer/not able to unite the party delete as appropriate
And so on and so forth0 -
Only 8% chose BJ over TM
I SO NEED TO GET MY MIND OUT OF THE GUTTER0 -
On Crabb...there was an interview with him on the radio when he was talking about his christian values.
Why are Christian, bible, thumper, loony roonies so obsessed particularly by sex, gays and porn and drugs. He managed to bring up all three in the interview.
You cannot have a Christian nut job, whose obsessed by sex and gay men, porn, drugs getting anywhere near power. You just cannot.0 -
And a BREXIT to an EEA model as well.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Maybe why markets are rising. A stability candidate and capable of uniting the partyRobD said:0 -
That doesn't seem like it'd do him much harm with the Tory membersHaroldO said:
He opposed gay marriage though.....Wanderer said:
Could Crabb's campaign catch fire and take people by surprise? Maybe if Davidson makes a barnstorming speech on his behalf?Pong said:
Both the Boris and May camps have the same 2 aims right now;GIN1138 said:
We know it's going to be between Boris and Theresa... All these other non entities like Crabb and Fox are doing is holding up the UK getting a new Prime Minister at a time of crisis. They should all stand aside tomorrow, let Boris and Theresa go through and then we could have a new PM/Chancellor by the end of July.TheScreamingEagles said:
Firstly, to get onto the members ballot. Secondly, to have Crabb as their opponent on the members ballot.0 -
That's because you're not a Tory.anotherDave said:
I just don't understand Ms May's appeal.TheScreamingEagles said:2. May has remained popular amongst BOTH Remain and Leave voters, unlike any other leadership contender
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It is quite extraordinary that the PLP, after just about an entire shadow cabinet has resigned in the last week and with another shadow cabinet on the back benches which had already refused to serve, seems about to nominate just one alternative to Corbyn - someone who offers few obvious improvements on Corbyn and, to his supporters at least, is worse is several important ways. It's almost as if they want to lose the fight.RepublicanTory said:
As a Tory I would be very happy if Labour choose her.bigjohnowls said:
I think Angela Eagle would be hopeless. The Tories must be praying for her to winJonathan said:
Nick Palmer and BigJohnOwls are clearly pulling for the Tories at the moment. You should give them a vote.JohnO said:Just of interest how many posters here will actually be part of the Tory 'selectorate'?
Apart from me, there is Richard N, TSE, Max, Casino, Plato, Concanvasser...must be more surely? So far I count 5 for May, 2 for Johnson.
Perhaps you could list her qualities apart from being able to turn on the waterworks at will.
Why do you think she is the anything other than a disaster
4TH OUT OF 5 for Deputy last time suddenly your favoured candidate.
The PLP sparked a crisis then wanted to impose Jarvis without a vote
Insulting to any Democratic Socialist IMO.
What does your CLP think.
Mine is seething
Big John is right She would be a polling disaster waiting to happen.0 -
Yes this is my experience as well, among the people I asked it was about 50/50 among the leavers and Boris had no support among the remainers. Glad to see it replicated among a wider sample.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
@SunPolitics: Theresa May promises a Minister for Brexit as she launches opening leadership salvo at Boris https://t.co/NEeII6Ka5U https://t.co/UJ3EGOwk4R0
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Jamie Reed MP has written a funny letter to Corbyn.
Reckons Corbyn has 'injected unprecedented poison' into the party.
Didn't this fucking mouthy, keyboard warring idiot take notice during the Alastair Campbell, Derek Draper and Damien Mcbride years?
Reed is symptomatic of Labour's wider parliamentary problem. The party lacks people with the bollocks to do the dirty work.
We saw it with the coronation of the great Gordon Brown.0 -
TheScreamingEagles said:
Yesmurali_s said:Is there a betting market on when we invoke "Article 50"?
https://www.skybet.com/politics/european-politics/event/19451469
After 2018 or never is as short as 3/1
I guess October 1 to December 31 this year is a decent bet at 3/10 -
Early days. I assume the final 2 candidates will have some sort of debate for the voters to see.TheScreamingEagles said:Looks like Boris needs to lend his MPs to candidates who aren't Mrs May
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Gove? Boris?Scott_P said:@SunPolitics: Theresa May promises a Minister for Brexit as she launches opening leadership salvo at Boris https://t.co/NEeII6Ka5U https://t.co/UJ3EGOwk4R
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Or cover both more safely with Evens on 2016 at BetfairWanderer said:
More likely than the July - Sept favourite imo.foxinsoxuk said:
Oct 1 to dec 31st looks value at 3/1. I have put a few quid on.TheScreamingEagles said:
Yesmurali_s said:Is there a betting market on when we invoke "Article 50"?
https://www.skybet.com/politics/european-politics/event/194514690 -
They did quite a few hypotheticals. I even voted for Boris in one of them.RobD said:
A shame they didn't pair May with anyone other than Boris, would have been interesting to explore that hypothetical.TheScreamingEagles said:twitter.com/SamCoatesTimes/status/748265126067855360
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I was thinking of its impact on the chances of Ruth Davidson doing a speech for him.William_H said:
That doesn't seem like it'd do him much harm with the Tory membersHaroldO said:
He opposed gay marriage though.....Wanderer said:
Could Crabb's campaign catch fire and take people by surprise? Maybe if Davidson makes a barnstorming speech on his behalf?Pong said:
Both the Boris and May camps have the same 2 aims right now;GIN1138 said:
We know it's going to be between Boris and Theresa... All these other non entities like Crabb and Fox are doing is holding up the UK getting a new Prime Minister at a time of crisis. They should all stand aside tomorrow, let Boris and Theresa go through and then we could have a new PM/Chancellor by the end of July.TheScreamingEagles said:
Firstly, to get onto the members ballot. Secondly, to have Crabb as their opponent on the members ballot.0 -
So the EU formulates a law with only our initial input, but one that we care about enough to want to adopt. We have no say in the latter or, crucially, voting rounds.Charles said:
*Could* not *would*TOPPING said:
Presumably Brussels could fax over the legislation and we would simply adopt that?Charles said:
If nothing else worked, presumably Parliament could copy paste the regulation into a law and pass that.TOPPING said:
You say we can't impose [EU] legislation on EFTA states and vice versa and that is good. But is the corollary of that that if it is vetoed from being incorporated into the EEA Agreement by another EEA/EFTA state, we can unilaterally adopt it. What would be the mechanism by which we could do that?
Max made it sound as though there was something more formal than that.
Big difference.
We're in control.
And then it comes out, and we want to adopt it, but Norway vetoes its inclusion into the EEA Agreement. So we cut and paste (your words) the law formulated in a different country with minimal UK input onto our statute books.
Doesn't sound too control-y to me.0 -
YouGov have put their charts and tables up
https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/06/29/theresa-may-storms-ahead-boris-among-tory-party-me/0 -
Personally, I'd be quite happy with a Watson-led Labour. He has some guts, and I generally agree with his mix of policies (which is more than I can say for the likes of Kendall and Umunna). From what I've seen, he's generally "soft left" on the economy and welfare issues, with his main heresy being he supports Trident -- that would all be fine by me.bigjohnowls said:AndreaParma_82
Actually with the CLP information Andrea has posted i think the chances of a Corbyn defeat are a bit higher than i posted earlier.
Still think AE very unlikely to win though
Watson it could be quite close.
Really needs a Burnham or Lewis to go all post Jezza though i think
However, I genuinely don't see that he would be any more "electable" than Corbyn. He's not any more charismatic, plus he doesn't come across as a very nice or relateable guy in the way that Corbyn, for all his many faults, does. I can't really see the thought process that the average Joe Public who wouldn't be willing to vote for Corbyn to be PM, would be willing to vote for Watson.0 -
Ugh, if May is kicked out at the last round before it goes to the members' ballot, i'll be pissed!anotherDave said:
Early days. I assume the final 2 candidates will have some sort of debate for the voters to see.TheScreamingEagles said:Looks like Boris needs to lend his MPs to candidates who aren't Mrs May
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Does Boris have that many?TheScreamingEagles said:Looks like Boris needs to lend his MPs to candidates who aren't Mrs May
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Uncertain times, for many she’s nanny in boxing gloves.anotherDave said:
I just don't understand Ms May's appeal.TheScreamingEagles said:2. May has remained popular amongst BOTH Remain and Leave voters, unlike any other leadership contender
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I see all those who were frothing about $2Tn off world share prices earlier this week are, now that the FTSE is higher than at any point this month, saying that short term considerations are irrelevant and the damage will emerge wraith like in the long term lol.
Remainer Fail.
Meanwhile Im returning from an excellent game of cricket at the Oval and see Roy hit over 160 in a 42 over match with 60 odd from Root.
Oh to be in England in Summer0 -
The Boris vs Liam Fox one? So did ITissue_Price said:
They did quite a few hypotheticals. I even voted for Boris in one of them.RobD said:
A shame they didn't pair May with anyone other than Boris, would have been interesting to explore that hypothetical.TheScreamingEagles said:twitter.com/SamCoatesTimes/status/748265126067855360
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Nope.SeanT said:
One of the failures of REMAIN was that they had no real way of dealing with LEAVE attacks, and had no relevant facts and figures to hand, as they have never properly addressed Brexit, psychologically, as Brexit was always deemed impossible, indeed distastefulMP_SE said:
I got the impression Johnson knows very little about the EU. There was no depth to his arguments.Pulpstar said:I have to say that Alan Johnson'sw performance in the Brexit campaign was utterly appalling. I didn't even know he was in charge of Labour remain.
Shameful to go after Corbyn on this given the glass house he is in .
By contrast many LEAVERS know EU law down to the last jot and tittle. They obsess. Same in Sindyref, of course. Tough campaigners, for that reason
*The* failure of REMAIN was that they had no response WHATSOEVER to the immigration line of attack.0 -
Yes, but given the crisis the country is in you would hope these self-serving Tory politicians would see sense and step back so we can have a winner quickly declared for the good of the country...SeanT said:
He won't get anywhere near winning. What he's doing is raising his profile. Always happens in these electionstyson said:On Crabb...there was an interview with him on the radio when he was talking about his christian values.
Why are Christian, bible, thumper, loony roonies so obsessed particularly by sex, gays and porn and drugs. He managed to bring up all three in the interview.
You cannot have a Christian nut job, whose obsessed by sex and gay men, porn, drugs getting anywhere near power. You just cannot.
0 -
He also wants to have a power base to horse trade with later on for a top job somewhere, for the pair of them.SeanT said:
He won't get anywhere near winning. What he's doing is raising his profile. Always happens in these electionstyson said:On Crabb...there was an interview with him on the radio when he was talking about his christian values.
Why are Christian, bible, thumper, loony roonies so obsessed particularly by sex, gays and porn and drugs. He managed to bring up all three in the interview.
You cannot have a Christian nut job, whose obsessed by sex and gay men, porn, drugs getting anywhere near power. You just cannot.0 -
Labour is finished.david_herdson said:
It is quite extraordinary that the PLP, after just about an entire shadow cabinet has resigned in the last week and with another shadow cabinet on the back benches which had already refused to serve, seems about to nominate just one alternative to Corbyn - someone who offers few obvious improvements on Corbyn and, to his supporters at least, is worse is several important ways. It's almost as if they want to lose the fight.RepublicanTory said:
As a Tory I would be very happy if Labour choose her.bigjohnowls said:
I think Angela Eagle would be hopeless. The Tories must be praying for her to winJonathan said:
Nick Palmer and BigJohnOwls are clearly pulling for the Tories at the moment. You should give them a vote.JohnO said:Just of interest how many posters here will actually be part of the Tory 'selectorate'?
Apart from me, there is Richard N, TSE, Max, Casino, Plato, Concanvasser...must be more surely? So far I count 5 for May, 2 for Johnson.
Perhaps you could list her qualities apart from being able to turn on the waterworks at will.
Why do you think she is the anything other than a disaster
4TH OUT OF 5 for Deputy last time suddenly your favoured candidate.
The PLP sparked a crisis then wanted to impose Jarvis without a vote
Insulting to any Democratic Socialist IMO.
What does your CLP think.
Mine is seething
Big John is right She would be a polling disaster waiting to happen.0 -
Wrong, the referendum was lost narrowly.Danny565 said:
But they thought that the "Remain" campaign was guaranteed to succeed. That is how bad their political judgement is. I remember reading the articles about a year ago - people like Liz Kendall and Chuka Umunna thought that staying in the EU was one of the main principles of the "centre ground", and that Labour enthusiastically backing the Remain campaign would be a good move for Labour and show how in touch they were with mainstream voters.Wanderer said:
Most Labour voters backed Remain. There's a lot of focus on the sizeable minority that didn't but most did.Danny565 said:
Most of them just showed how in touch they were with those 9m voters by enthusiastically backing the Remain campaign.MarqueeMark said:
Clearly, it turned out supporting the EU was nowhere near as "centre ground" or "mainstream" as they thought. So why should I trust that they know how to win an election and how to appeal to the General Electorate, when they read the General Electorate so catastrophically badly on the EU???
Most Labour voters backed Remain. There would have been many more had Corbyn actively backed the campaign and rolled his sleeves up and got up to the north where the vote was in trouble.
No more excuses. WAKE UP.0 -
It's notPaul_Bedfordshire said:now that the FTSE is higher than at any point this month
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Sorry for delayed response - probably.bigjohnowls said:
Does OS meet your competence test?SandyRentool said:
Momentum will vote for him thinking he is Owen Jones.Scrapheap_as_was said:woman problem averted, betting is a joke on this
(((Dan Hodges))) @DPJHodges · 2m2 minutes ago
Shadow Cabinet source: Owen Smith thinking of running for leadership. Met with Eagle. Eagle will not now declare.
I am with Jezza still on that.
Disappointed Lewis or Burnham couldnt be persuaded
Lewis will stand if Corbyn tells him to.0 -
Does Boris actually have 100MPs? Guido's website only lists 37.0
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Boris seems to think so. 100 already for the first round.david_herdson said:
Does Boris have that many?TheScreamingEagles said:Looks like Boris needs to lend his MPs to candidates who aren't Mrs May
With the quasi-AV system, he'll probably get 140ish they say by the final round.
You only need 111 to make the final round, so he could loan maybe 20 to another candidate to stop Mrs May making the ballot0 -
RobD said:
PBers 4 May rejoice even moreScott_P said:
@jantalipinski: This survey is amongst a representative sample of Tory members (we predicted DC's victory with 1% error and IDS 0%) https://t.co/e6q55SQt75MarqueeMark said:You have to question how they find the party members though. Their previous weightings of the public have been highly suspect. How do they go about finding members in Shropshire and Scotland?
She's almost as popular as Wee Nicky on here!
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*0
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Right. He's back in the "not for me" category.tyson said:
I quite liked him, until I realised he's a bible thumper. He may as well join ISIS, believing in that lot of old bollox.stjohn said:
I might give him a second look!TheScreamingEagles said:
But he's one of us.stjohn said:I can't warm to Crabbe. Just seen the clip of him making his rugby metaphor again - part of his declaration speech. A bit cringeworthy.
He told everyone he knows how to lay a bet.0 -
Oh dear, I am pretty sure I did the same although can't recall as if there was an abstain/spoil ballot option which I might have ticked.TheScreamingEagles said:
The Boris vs Liam Fox one? So did ITissue_Price said:
They did quite a few hypotheticals. I even voted for Boris in one of them.RobD said:
A shame they didn't pair May with anyone other than Boris, would have been interesting to explore that hypothetical.TheScreamingEagles said:twitter.com/SamCoatesTimes/status/748265126067855360
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I'm not sure. There may be a lot of pressure to invoke when the new Tory leader takes office or after an early election, if that happens. But really, without pre-agreement on broad-brush terms it's something you would never want to do.Jobabob said:TheScreamingEagles said:
Yesmurali_s said:Is there a betting market on when we invoke "Article 50"?
https://www.skybet.com/politics/european-politics/event/19451469
After 2018 or never is as short as 3/1
I guess October 1 to December 31 this year is a decent bet at 3/10 -
It occurs to me that Cameron has with three referendums stuffed both opposition parties. Libdems with AV. Lab north of border with Indyref and now Lab south of border with Euref.
That is quite an achievement.
Hopefully now Boris will see sense and Theresa May will be PM by Friday.
If she is really ruthless she could then call a snap election right in the middle of Labours leader Fratricide.0 -
Of course AEs CLP wrote this on Sunday
Hello Angela
At the CLP AGM on Friday 24th June 2016, delegates asked me to write to you to ask you to reject the motion of no confidence in Jeremy Corbyn. The meeting was overwhelmingly behind Jeremy continuing as Labour leader. Your appearance on TV during the post referendum programme was mentioned. Your response in putting the question of his leadership aside to deal with the issues was welcomed. The idea that the Labour Party would rather miss the chance to capitalise on the splits in the Tory party by in fighting was not acceptable to members.
On behalf of the constituency I would ask you to make a clear public statement of support for him.
Regards
Kathy Miller & Kathy Runswick
Secretary & Chair Wallasey CLP”0 -
You'll find that the Tories are now gayer than disco. Times change.William_H said:
That doesn't seem like it'd do him much harm with the Tory membersHaroldO said:
He opposed gay marriage though.....Wanderer said:
Could Crabb's campaign catch fire and take people by surprise? Maybe if Davidson makes a barnstorming speech on his behalf?Pong said:
Both the Boris and May camps have the same 2 aims right now;GIN1138 said:
We know it's going to be between Boris and Theresa... All these other non entities like Crabb and Fox are doing is holding up the UK getting a new Prime Minister at a time of crisis. They should all stand aside tomorrow, let Boris and Theresa go through and then we could have a new PM/Chancellor by the end of July.TheScreamingEagles said:
Firstly, to get onto the members ballot. Secondly, to have Crabb as their opponent on the members ballot.0 -
Well that is it then....... PM May. Could be worse I guess. If anyone deserves it, she does.TheScreamingEagles said:YouGov have put their charts and tables up
https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/06/29/theresa-may-storms-ahead-boris-among-tory-party-me/
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"George Osborne is seen by a majority of Tory members as the strongest candidate on the economy."TheScreamingEagles said:YouGov have put their charts and tables up
https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/06/29/theresa-may-storms-ahead-boris-among-tory-party-me/
The panel may be broken.
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I really don't think EEA is going to happen for Britain. No-one will be able to tell us what to do without asking first. But that's the EEA's way of working.Charles said:
*Could* not *would*TOPPING said:
Presumably Brussels could fax over the legislation and we would simply adopt that?Charles said:
If nothing else worked, presumably Parliament could copy paste the regulation into a law and pass that.TOPPING said:
You say we can't impose [EU] legislation on EFTA states and vice versa and that is good. But is the corollary of that that if it is vetoed from being incorporated into the EEA Agreement by another EEA/EFTA state, we can unilaterally adopt it. What would be the mechanism by which we could do that?
Max made it sound as though there was something more formal than that.
Big difference.
We're in control.
So when Merkel says no cherry-picking on the single market and no negotiation prior to the Article 50 countdown, she is either holding out for Article 50 NEVER to be triggered and Britain's EU membership to continue by default, or it's a locked down trade deal.
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She is in for a tough time north of the border, Brexit will be put at her parties feet for obvious reasons. May is a remainer, having her as a nominal boss is better for her than having Boris sat there losing her votes.SeanT said:
Davidson clearly hates Boris. She will support Teresa. Important for Scots Tories, and the UnionHaroldO said:
I was thinking of its impact on the chances of Ruth Davidson doing a speech for him.William_H said:
That doesn't seem like it'd do him much harm with the Tory membersHaroldO said:
He opposed gay marriage though.....Wanderer said:
Could Crabb's campaign catch fire and take people by surprise? Maybe if Davidson makes a barnstorming speech on his behalf?Pong said:
Both the Boris and May camps have the same 2 aims right now;GIN1138 said:
We know it's going to be between Boris and Theresa... All these other non entities like Crabb and Fox are doing is holding up the UK getting a new Prime Minister at a time of crisis. They should all stand aside tomorrow, let Boris and Theresa go through and then we could have a new PM/Chancellor by the end of July.TheScreamingEagles said:
Firstly, to get onto the members ballot. Secondly, to have Crabb as their opponent on the members ballot.
In fact if Boris did get in then her career is put back a few years, hmmm....0 -
We wanted to be involved but obviously had no data so hard to target our voters.anotherDave said:
Some good turnouts in Berkshire.IanB2 said:
The turnout of pensioners was at a record high, the turnout of working class voters in safe seats rose more than was expected, the turnout of younger voters esp 18-24 appears to have been below 50%. Turnout in Scotland and London was good, but not as good as most of the English provinces. Thus turnout rose, but not evenly.nunu said:
The highest increases came from council estates, in Scotland where the debate was one sided turnout was similar to GE, I.e. middle class more likely to turnout.Paristonda said:slightly off topic. - I was thinking about the pre referendum predictions on turnout - the consensus seemed to be sub-60% meant leave, 60-75% meant remain, and above 75% meant leave. I don't think anyone was saying leave on 72% turnout - any theories on why we saw decently but not massively elevated turnout from GE yet a leave vote?
Wokingham 80%, W.Berkshire 80%, Bracknell 76%, Reading 72%
http://www.getreading.co.uk/news/reading-berkshire-news/eu-referendum-result-reading-wokingham-11518563
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Mr Elliot of the Vote Leave team said they had 30,000 activists, and they wanted to be involved. Not what I saw in my patch, but who knows.
https://www.campaignsandelections.com/campaign-insider/how-leave-beat-back-a-u-s-consultant-led-effort-to-remain-in-the-eu0 -
Narrowly or not, the Remain campaign lost, despite sitting on a 40-point lead a year ago and having all the institutional advantages a campaign could dream of. To squander all those advantages shows the campaign was spectacularly crap, and therefore anyone who thought it was a good idea to enthusiastically back it (i.e. most of the "moderate" Labour MPs) clearly does not have very good political judgement.Jobabob said:
Wrong, the referendum was lost narrowly.Danny565 said:
But they thought that the "Remain" campaign was guaranteed to succeed. That is how bad their political judgement is. I remember reading the articles about a year ago - people like Liz Kendall and Chuka Umunna thought that staying in the EU was one of the main principles of the "centre ground", and that Labour enthusiastically backing the Remain campaign would be a good move for Labour and show how in touch they were with mainstream voters.Wanderer said:
Most Labour voters backed Remain. There's a lot of focus on the sizeable minority that didn't but most did.Danny565 said:
Most of them just showed how in touch they were with those 9m voters by enthusiastically backing the Remain campaign.MarqueeMark said:
Clearly, it turned out supporting the EU was nowhere near as "centre ground" or "mainstream" as they thought. So why should I trust that they know how to win an election and how to appeal to the General Electorate, when they read the General Electorate so catastrophically badly on the EU???0 -
Yes.SeanT said:
One of the failures of REMAIN was that they had no real way of dealing with LEAVE attacks, and had no relevant facts and figures to hand, as they have never properly addressed Brexit, psychologically, as Brexit was always deemed impossible, indeed distastefulMP_SE said:
I got the impression Johnson knows very little about the EU. There was no depth to his arguments.Pulpstar said:I have to say that Alan Johnson'sw performance in the Brexit campaign was utterly appalling. I didn't even know he was in charge of Labour remain.
Shameful to go after Corbyn on this given the glass house he is in .
By contrast many LEAVERS know EU law down to the last jot and tittle. They obsess. Same in Sindyref, of course. Tough campaigners, for that reason
Eurosceptic politicians have spent decades writing articles, books, making speeches, etc., whereas Europhile politicians have been no way near as active.0 -
Now that's thinking outside the box!YellowSubmarine said:We appear to need to use Balefire against Corbyn.
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As owner and MD of a successful medical technology company I have watched the continual downsizing of UK industry over many years. I set up my company with the election of Blair as I figured Labour would support industry. This was a massive mistake which cost my marriage and almost everything I owned. I survived just and now I am thriving internationally.Fishing said:
I don't agree.foxinsoxuk said:Though it was the Thatcher years that accelerated the already existing trend of deindustrialisation.
Between 1973 and 1979, manufacturing as a percentage of UK GDP declined by 2.7 percentage points, or about 0.4%/year. Between 1979 and 1990, it declined by 5.4 percentage points, or about the same rate (assuming mineral oil processing held steady between those years). Very slightly faster, but you'd need a microscope to see the difference in the stats. See https://catalogue.pearsoned.co.uk/assets/hip/gb/hip_gb_pearsonhighered/samplechapter/0273736906.pdf table 1.2.
The Tories don't really understand industry but do less damage than Labour is my general opinion. The last 5 years have been pretty good and my turnover is growing at 10% plus per year.
The UK is poorly set to operate as a standalone country. For example we have one active implantable company which is tiny and maybe only one manufacturer of cardiac catheters. Our economy is highly skewed to a few businesses that rely on international trade. Tearing up our biggest existing trade agreement without new ones in place seems to me suicide.
It will take years to rebuild our industry and will require us to attract talent from across the world. My recent hires include graduates from Greece, Bulgaria and Estonia. Personally I prefer to hire Europeans than from the rest of the world. While wages are low here we suffer from expensive energy, expensive money and property taxes that are probably the highest in Europe. The result is a lack of incentives to buy machinery which uses energy, space and require loans. I cannot see leaving the EU helping this transition as we lose access to good talent that we need.
|The country has had too many conviction politicians and too little attention to detail. I recently joined the Scottish Tories because of Ruth and I will vote for Theresa along with most of the other Tories I know up here.
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Claims of 'death threats' to the traitors rebels...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/29/revealed-labour-mps-go-to-police-over-death-threats-after-refusa/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter0 -
You are daft sometimes.TOPPING said:
So the EU formulates a law with only our initial input, but one that we care about enough to want to adopt. We have no say in the latter or, crucially, voting rounds.Charles said:
*Could* not *would*TOPPING said:
Presumably Brussels could fax over the legislation and we would simply adopt that?Charles said:
If nothing else worked, presumably Parliament could copy paste the regulation into a law and pass that.TOPPING said:
You say we can't impose [EU] legislation on EFTA states and vice versa and that is good. But is the corollary of that that if it is vetoed from being incorporated into the EEA Agreement by another EEA/EFTA state, we can unilaterally adopt it. What would be the mechanism by which we could do that?
Max made it sound as though there was something more formal than that.
Big difference.
We're in control.
And then it comes out, and we want to adopt it, but Norway vetoes its inclusion into the EEA Agreement. So we cut and paste (your words) the law formulated in a different country with minimal UK input onto our statute books.
Doesn't sound too control-y to me.
If we don't like the EU version but we want something similar then we draft our own version and pass it as a national regulation.
Capiche?0 -
I agree with youDanny565 said:
Personally, I'd be quite happy with a Watson-led Labour. He has some guts, and I generally agree with his mix of policies (which is more than I can say for the likes of Kendall and Umunna). From what I've seen, he's generally "soft left" on the economy and welfare issues, with his main heresy being he supports Trident -- that would all be fine by me.bigjohnowls said:AndreaParma_82
Actually with the CLP information Andrea has posted i think the chances of a Corbyn defeat are a bit higher than i posted earlier.
Still think AE very unlikely to win though
Watson it could be quite close.
Really needs a Burnham or Lewis to go all post Jezza though i think
However, I genuinely don't see that he would be any more "electable" than Corbyn. He's not any more charismatic, plus he doesn't come across as a very nice or relateable guy in the way that Corbyn, for all his many faults, does. I can't really see the thought process that the average Joe Public who wouldn't be willing to vote for Corbyn to be PM, would be willing to vote for Watson.0 -
I didn't say I wanted her, merely that she would be better than Corbyn, although admittedly that is damning by very faint praise.bigjohnowls said:
If you want Liz you really should vote Tory.Jobabob said:
Who would still be far, far, far better than Corbyn. With the possible exception of John McDonnell, Corbyn is the LEAST electable Labour MP in the Commons.bigjohnowls said:
These guys really cannot inspire confidence surely have the nerve to have no confidence in the leader at a time like this and have no clue what to do next.Scott_P said:@DPJHodges: Spoken to several Labour MPs. Told very strong feeling in PLP that no one should declare tomorrow. Confirmed Owen Smith taking soundings.
I know these people are totally fking useless but some of us have MONEY ON THIS FFS!
Completely incompetent.
Its not as though Lab has changed the system and somehow wrong footed them.
Incompetent fools cant think beyond ABC but then realise nobodys called that
We will end up with Liz Kendall as the challenger at this rate.
WAKE UP
P.S. Has Nick declared whether he thinks Corbyn should stay or go yet? We've been waiting longer for him than Charlie bloody Falconer
Same Policies without the fickkness and both endorsed by The Sun
Yvette for me.0 -
A female Hammond - dull and safe, at least in perception.anotherDave said:
I just don't understand Ms May's appeal.TheScreamingEagles said:2. May has remained popular amongst BOTH Remain and Leave voters, unlike any other leadership contender
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Got it in oneTheScreamingEagles said:
The Boris vs Liam Fox one? So did ITissue_Price said:
They did quite a few hypotheticals. I even voted for Boris in one of them.RobD said:
A shame they didn't pair May with anyone other than Boris, would have been interesting to explore that hypothetical.TheScreamingEagles said:twitter.com/SamCoatesTimes/status/748265126067855360
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Far, far, too early to write off Boris.tyson said:
Well that is it then....... PM May. Could be worse I guess. If anyone deserves it, she does.TheScreamingEagles said:YouGov have put their charts and tables up
https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/06/29/theresa-may-storms-ahead-boris-among-tory-party-me/0 -
Mike put up a new thread not realising the YouGov poll was out, there will be a new thread up shortly0
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Immigration made every Remainer look shifty and duplicitous, whether on DP or Pienaar, watched/listened to by geeks, or the national news, watched by millions.SeanT said:
I said ONE of the failures. And it's true. They lacked vim - Johnson was an exampleTOPPING said:
Nope.SeanT said:
One of the failures of REMAIN was that they had no real way of dealing with LEAVE attacks, and had no relevant facts and figures to hand, as they have never properly addressed Brexit, psychologically, as Brexit was always deemed impossible, indeed distastefulMP_SE said:
I got the impression Johnson knows very little about the EU. There was no depth to his arguments.Pulpstar said:I have to say that Alan Johnson'sw performance in the Brexit campaign was utterly appalling. I didn't even know he was in charge of Labour remain.
Shameful to go after Corbyn on this given the glass house he is in .
By contrast many LEAVERS know EU law down to the last jot and tittle. They obsess. Same in Sindyref, of course. Tough campaigners, for that reason
*The* failure of REMAIN was that they had no response WHATSOEVER to the immigration line of attack.
I agree that immigration was the clincher for many. But we don't know how many.
It IMO cast a shadow over their other responses in the minds of much of the public.
Their latterly agreed line on it - that as other EU economies grew, immigration would fall - came far too late, and was too nebulous a concept to limit the damage.0 -
No, my understanding is that the Germans want us to accept a deal that maintains all four freedoms or not have a deal. The EEA is a ready made solution that can work for us in the short to medium term, possibly even the long term. I think even the Frogs are on board given their stance on Calais and Sturgeon. No one wants to piss the other side off, which is why I wish someone would lock Nigel Farage up in a basement for a few months.FF43 said:
I really don't think EEA is going to happen for Britain. No-one will be able to tell us what to do without asking first. But that's the EEA's way of working.Charles said:
*Could* not *would*TOPPING said:
Presumably Brussels could fax over the legislation and we would simply adopt that?Charles said:
If nothing else worked, presumably Parliament could copy paste the regulation into a law and pass that.TOPPING said:
You say we can't impose [EU] legislation on EFTA states and vice versa and that is good. But is the corollary of that that if it is vetoed from being incorporated into the EEA Agreement by another EEA/EFTA state, we can unilaterally adopt it. What would be the mechanism by which we could do that?
Max made it sound as though there was something more formal than that.
Big difference.
We're in control.
So when Merkel says no cherry-picking on the single market and no negotiation prior to the Article 50 countdown, she is either holding out for Article 50 NEVER to be triggered and Britain's EU membership to continue by default, or it's a locked down trade deal.0 -
I agree with you...the politics are quite outstanding for Tory prospects...Paul_Bedfordshire said:It occurs to me that Cameron has with three referendums stuffed both opposition parties. Libdems with AV. Lab north of border with Indyref and now Lab south of border with Euref.
That is quite an achievement.
Hopefully now Boris will see sense and Theresa May will be PM by Friday.
If she is really ruthless she could then call a snap election right in the middle of Labours leader Fratricide.
But, in terms of everything else, Brexit is pure evil, nihilistic, and horrible and will do our country great harm. But, heh, the Tories did well out of it so that is alright then.
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I predict surbiton will comment first on the next thread saying "First like REMAIN"0
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There is something rather alluring and almost poetic about the idea of a Woman Tory Prime Minister handbagging Juncker and co in the brexit talks.0
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*This is a fucking awful week to write threads more than 30 mins an advance or to auto schedule threads*0
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Boris has a lot of potential to do a David Davis and go backwards from the first round.TheScreamingEagles said:
Boris seems to think so. 100 already for the first round.david_herdson said:
Does Boris have that many?TheScreamingEagles said:Looks like Boris needs to lend his MPs to candidates who aren't Mrs May
With the quasi-AV system, he'll probably get 140ish they say by the final round.
You only need 111 to make the final round, so he could loan maybe 20 to another candidate to stop Mrs May making the ballot0 -
GIN1138 said:
Far, far, too early to write off Boris.tyson said:
Well that is it then....... PM May. Could be worse I guess. If anyone deserves it, she does.TheScreamingEagles said:YouGov have put their charts and tables up
https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/06/29/theresa-may-storms-ahead-boris-among-tory-party-me/
Look at the back data on the YouGOV polls. They are never wrong. Welcome Theresa, our second lady PM.0 -
Mmmmtyson said:
I quite liked him, until I realised he's a bible thumper. He may as well join ISIS, believing in that lot of old bollox.stjohn said:
I might give him a second look!TheScreamingEagles said:
But he's one of us.stjohn said:I can't warm to Crabbe. Just seen the clip of him making his rugby metaphor again - part of his declaration speech. A bit cringeworthy.
He told everyone he knows how to lay a bet.
That held me back as well
But for the tory party members that will not be such an issue.0
This discussion has been closed.