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SystemSystem Posts: 12,598
edited June 2016 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Is this the start of the Saturday night/Sunday morning massacre by Corbyn?

Blimey. Is this is the start of the Saturday night/Sunday morning massacre? And how long will the reshuffle take ? pic.twitter.com/7SOLPzrzNN

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Comments

  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,629
    First?
  • ArtistArtist Posts: 1,893
    Diane Abbott to shadow foreign sec?
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Podium finish?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,874
    Corbyn getting the big knifing in first.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,629
    Does TSE ever sleep?
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Artist said:

    Diane Abbott to shadow foreign sec?

    In her sidecar?
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 7,742
    Hillary Benn is my MP. I'm not a Labour voter, but I believe he's a man of principle. The U.K. needs a strong opposition. It's time for Labour to act against Corbyn...
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,874
    RobD said:

    Does TSE ever sleep?

    Labour's plotting never does it seems.

    I hope Corbyn slaughters the lorra 'em.
  • brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352
    numbertwelve said:

    Hillary Benn is my MP. I'm not a Labour voter, but I believe he's a man of principle. The U.K. needs a strong opposition. It's time for Labour to act against Corbyn...

    Problem is even if they somehow manage it they'll only replace him with someone who is even more of an electoral disaster.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,022
    RobD said:

    Does TSE ever sleep?

    I had just gotten into bed and I got that news alert on my phone.

    I'm going to sleep. Feck knows what I'm going to wake up to in the morning.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,874
    We're into a fast moving political enviroment now.
  • KentRisingKentRising Posts: 2,927
    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Panelbase has it a little closer but the trend is clear
    https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/746860813525319680

    Surprisingly tight
    Scotland will have another referendum and it will vote No, again.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,751
    Despite my previous statement, I haven't actually got around to cancelling my Labour Party membership yet so would be eligible to vote in any leadership election.

    I voted for Corbyn first time round. Not going to happen this time.
    Others I know have the same view.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,076
    Benn available at 7 on BF.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,629
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    RobD said:

    Does TSE ever sleep?

    I had just gotten into bed and I got that news alert on my phone.

    I'm going to sleep. Feck knows what I'm going to wake up to in the morning.
    G'night. Charge your phone (although not as bad as some other tweets of yours heh!)
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,198
    edited June 2016
    Benn will be as effective as Crispin Blunt was against IDS when he resigned from the Tory front bench in early 2003. Corbyn is strengthened by an Out vote as he is the most Eurosceptic of the Shadow Cabinet and the members still back him. Until Corbyn/McDonnell lose a general election the membership will not consider a more centrist alternative so he stays
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,076
    Pulpstar said:

    Corbyn getting the big knifing in first.

    A futile last gesture. He is finished.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,022
    Pulpstar said:

    RobD said:

    Does TSE ever sleep?

    Labour's plotting never does it seems.

    I hope Corbyn slaughters the lorra 'em.
    I'm sure that's nothing to do with your betting position about Corbyn lasting until 2020 is it ? :lol:
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,629
    KentRising said:

    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Panelbase has it a little closer but the trend is clear
    https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/746860813525319680

    Surprisingly tight
    Scotland will have another referendum and it will vote No, again.
    I'm not sure of that. I think it depends how the negotiations are progressing.
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    numbertwelve said:

    Hillary Benn is my MP. I'm not a Labour voter, but I believe he's a man of principle. The U.K. needs a strong opposition. It's time for Labour to act against Corbyn...

    He was terribly wet and indistinguishable from a Remain Tory on the BBC last night. He's delivered one great speech - so did Diane.

    I remain to be convinced that Hilary is more than that. I hope he is.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,874
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Pulpstar said:

    RobD said:

    Does TSE ever sleep?

    Labour's plotting never does it seems.

    I hope Corbyn slaughters the lorra 'em.
    I'm sure that's nothing to do with your betting position about Corbyn lasting until 2020 is it ? :lol:
    2017. 2020 would be a bonus.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited June 2016
    The membership will be furious about this. The attempted coup, not the sacking.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,076
    AndyJS said:

    The membership will be furious about this. The attempted coup, not the sacking.

    Will they? The theory needs testing.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,316
    I wouldn't trade places with Jeremy Corbyn right now for all the whiskey in Ireland :)
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,874
    Nah Seriously, if the Labourites think this is the issue to go after Corbyn on then they are utterly deluded.

    No Labour leader will be able to get the working class on the side of the EU for a very very long time.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    A silly and divisive move from Team Corbyn.

    However, the fundamental point still stands: saying that Labour should respond to a Brexit vote by electing a leader who's even more enthusiastically pro-Europe is laughably illogical.
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Us £3ers still have a month or so to go.

    What incredible value.
  • alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    The issue for the Labour working class voters isn't Europe it's immigration.

    And the membership are not the voters.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 7,742
    PlatoSaid said:

    numbertwelve said:

    Hillary Benn is my MP. I'm not a Labour voter, but I believe he's a man of principle. The U.K. needs a strong opposition. It's time for Labour to act against Corbyn...

    He was terribly wet and indistinguishable from a Remain Tory on the BBC last night. He's delivered one great speech - so did Diane.

    I remain to be convinced that Hilary is more than that. I hope he is.
    Thing is, although I'm far from a Labour voter, I'd trust Benn. That party needs someone to steady the ship. As was seen today (and in the past few months) Corbyn just isn't up to it.

    By getting rid of him, Corbyn is adding to the knives in his back. The Labour Party is in civil war...
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,874
    PlatoSaid said:

    Us £3ers still have a month or so to go.

    What incredible value.

    I'll be voting Corbyn first pref.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,198
    50% believe the referendum result should stand, just 39% want another one. 48% are happy with the result, 43% unhappy
    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/brexit-opinion-poll-reveals-majority-8283139
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,022
    edited June 2016
    I'm sure Team Corbyn will love me comparing their man to Richard Nixon.

    The question is can John McDonnell piss and chew gum at the same time?
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,942
    I feel genuinely sorry for Jezza here. What happened with Labours WWC voters is NOT his fault.
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    edited June 2016
    Danny565 said:

    A silly and divisive move from Team Corbyn.

    However, the fundamental point still stands: saying that Labour should respond to a Brexit vote by electing a leader who's even more enthusiastically pro-Europe is laughably illogical.

    As an outsider, I honestly can't see any logic in it.

    Then again - Remain using Cameron/Osborne to front a campaign to appeal to Labour voters was totally insane.

    We're in post-braincells politics.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,076
    HYUFD said:

    Benn will be as effective as Crispin Blunt was against IDS when he resigned from the Tory front bench in early 2003. Corbyn is strengthened by an Out vote as he is the most Eurosceptic of the Shadow Cabinet and the members still back him. Until Corbyn/McDonnell lose a general election the membership will not consider a more centrist alternative so he stays

    Don't agree. Corbyn will be properly tested in a leadership election this time. The 'awe shucks I'm just a principled guy who can't dress properly' wont wash this time around.

    He is wet and pathetic and useless and it will come across. The summer romance that elected him is over IMHO. He just helped lose the UK from EU as Toynbee has pointed out. Will the herbivores still back him?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,874
    alex. said:

    The issue for the Labour working class voters isn't Europe it's immigration.

    And the membership are not the voters.

    EU and immigration are much of a muchness in the minds of Labour working class voters.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    edited June 2016
    Pulpstar said:

    Nah Seriously, if the Labourites think this is the issue to go after Corbyn on then they are utterly deluded.

    No Labour leader will be able to get the working class on the side of the EU for a very very long time.

    Seriously, this whole referendum has confirmed to me (even as someone in the "right-wing half of the party" as of the last leadership election) that the PLP have completely lost their marbles, when it comes to their guiding principles. On the Welfare Bill and cuts more generally, they were/are happy to abstain and throw poor people into poverty, for the sake of electability. Yet when it comes to the EU, they'll go to the mattresses to defend it and that they should be willing to ruin the party's electoral success for its sake, just so they can spout platitudes about how "outward-looking" and "internationalist" they are. Utter madness.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited June 2016
    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    I wouldn't trade places with Jeremy Corbyn right now for all the whiskey in Ireland :)

    I thought you were a teetotaller. :)
  • MyBurningEarsMyBurningEars Posts: 3,651
    https://twitter.com/PDSutherlandUN/status/746687362902728704

    Bit disappointed about the Labour coup - will take news agenda away from nefarious means of reversing the referendum result.

    The Petition has got up to 2.7 million now - I've helped it along a bit, signed quite a few times but am running out of IP addresses. I'm hoping that the more preposterously large the number gets, the more anti-democratic forces can be smoked out by tempting them into "doing a Lammy".
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,629
    edited June 2016
    MyBurningEars said:

    twitter.com/PDSutherlandUN/status/746687362902728704

    Bit disappointed about the Labour coup - will take news agenda away from nefarious means of reversing the referendum result.

    The Petition has got up to 2.7 million now - I've helped it along a bit, signed quite a few times but am running out of IP addresses. I'm hoping that the more preposterously large the number gets, the more anti-democratic forces can be smoked out by tempting them into "doing a Lammy".

    Vote early, vote often? :D

    Edit: the petition website really needs a disagree button.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    With every passing minute the concerns of the Labour Party become more distant from their traditional voters.
  • OUTOUT Posts: 569
    No effective PM, a missing chancellor, opposition in disaray, Scotland heading out, and Bojo playing cricket.

    Never mind Russia, if Iceland invaded i wouldn't hold out much hope of repelling them.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,198
    rottenborough said:

    HYUFD said:

    Benn will be as effective as Crispin Blunt was against IDS when he resigned from the Tory front bench in early 2003. Corbyn is strengthened by an Out vote as he is the most Eurosceptic of the Shadow Cabinet and the members still back him. Until Corbyn/McDonnell lose a general election the membership will not consider a more centrist alternative so he stays

    Don't agree. Corbyn will be properly tested in a leadership election this time. The 'awe shucks I'm just a principled guy who can't dress properly' wont wash this time around.

    He is wet and pathetic and useless and it will come across. The summer romance that elected him is over IMHO. He just helped lose the UK from EU as Toynbee has pointed out. Will the herbivores still back him?
    The herbivores want a leftwing leader to lead them to victory, until they lose a general election under a leftwing leader they won't change their mind I am afraid. Even if Corbyn had been a passionate campaigner for the EU Remain would still have lost, the wwc voters who voted Leave did so because of immigration not because Corbyn was not a committed enough Remainer!
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,316
    AndyJS said:

    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    I wouldn't trade places with Jeremy Corbyn right now for all the whiskey in Ireland :)

    I thought you were a teetotaller. :)
    LA Confidential's on :)
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,874
    AndyJS said:

    With every passing minute the concerns of the Labour Party become more distant from their traditional voters.

    :+1:

    Indeed, they're in a total London bubble.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,751
    Hilary Benn seems like a plausible leader for SDPv2.

    The way to make it work this time where it failed last time is:
    1) Join with Lib immediately - they need a new brand anyhow.
    2) Get some Tory defectors as well.
    3) Both Con and Lab are split by UKIP, so you have a big centrist block against a fragmented right and left.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,076
    Danny565 said:

    A silly and divisive move from Team Corbyn.

    However, the fundamental point still stands: saying that Labour should respond to a Brexit vote by electing a leader who's even more enthusiastically pro-Europe is laughably illogical.

    You are missing the point. The MPs want someone who can actually lead the party, not an idiot. Forget what he stands for.
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    GIN1138 said:

    I feel genuinely sorry for Jezza here. What happened with Labours WWC voters is NOT his fault.

    Ditto - it's the most spurious reason to dump him. He paid lip service to Remain despite 40yrs of the contrary.

    Bump him off for his sins, not for trying to be a team player.
  • LowlanderLowlander Posts: 941
    I think this says it's just a scratch.

    https://twitter.com/fratzz/status/746773756677349380
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    Too many Leftoids really believe Jezza is the Messiah.

    He should put on a string-vest and a pair of Jesus-boots.

    Landslide victory again...
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,751
    AndyJS said:

    With every passing minute the concerns of the Labour Party become more distant from their traditional voters.

    Corbyn can go after them now but he needs to be anti-free trade as well as anti-immigration. Can't do it until the centrists (ie almost his entire parliamentary party) leave.
  • LowlanderLowlander Posts: 941
    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    I wouldn't trade places with Jeremy Corbyn right now for all the whiskey in Ireland :)

    In all honesty, it made no sense for him to try a balanced cabinet to start with. Especially Hillary Benn. He should have been stacking it with Corbynites. Of course he has done that with the NEC. So its over for the Blairites anyway.
  • brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352
    FPT
    John_N4 said:

    brokenwheel said:

    The EU isn't going to allow us to remain even if we wanted to so it's all a bit of wishful thinking.

    That could only possibly be true after Britain has invoked Article 50.

    We will be forced to invoke article 50.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    MyBurningEars said:

    https://twitter.com/PDSutherlandUN/status/746687362902728704

    Bit disappointed about the Labour coup - will take news agenda away from nefarious means of reversing the referendum result.

    The Petition has got up to 2.7 million now - I've helped it along a bit, signed quite a few times but am running out of IP addresses. I'm hoping that the more preposterously large the number gets, the more anti-democratic forces can be smoked out by tempting them into "doing a Lammy".

    Another supreme anti-democrat.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    edmundintokyo said:

    Hilary Benn seems like a plausible leader for SDPv2.

    The way to make it work this time where it failed last time is:
    1) Join with Lib immediately - they need a new brand anyhow.
    2) Get some Tory defectors as well.
    3) Both Con and Lab are split by UKIP, so you have a big centrist block against a fragmented right and left.

    The SDPv2, running on the platform the Lib Dems stood on in 2015 (economic conservatism, cultural liberalism). How well did it work out for them?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,874
    RodCrosby said:

    Too many Leftoids really believe Jezza is the Messiah.

    He should put on a string-vest and a pair of Jesus-boots.

    Landslide victory again...

    How do you think Benn / McDonnell would fare ?
  • MyBurningEarsMyBurningEars Posts: 3,651
    RobD said:

    MyBurningEars said:

    twitter.com/PDSutherlandUN/status/746687362902728704

    Bit disappointed about the Labour coup - will take news agenda away from nefarious means of reversing the referendum result.

    The Petition has got up to 2.7 million now - I've helped it along a bit, signed quite a few times but am running out of IP addresses. I'm hoping that the more preposterously large the number gets, the more anti-democratic forces can be smoked out by tempting them into "doing a Lammy".

    Vote early, vote often? :D

    Edit: the petition website really needs a disagree button.
    I'm doing my best.

    If petitions are democratic I suppose I'm subverting democracy, but something this pathetic and anti-democratic doesn't deserve any respect. Would love to see it cross the 5 million mark, if only to see which politicians show their true colours by taking it seriously.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,076
    HYUFD said:

    rottenborough said:

    HYUFD said:

    Benn will be as effective as Crispin Blunt was against IDS when he resigned from the Tory front bench in early 2003. Corbyn is strengthened by an Out vote as he is the most Eurosceptic of the Shadow Cabinet and the members still back him. Until Corbyn/McDonnell lose a general election the membership will not consider a more centrist alternative so he stays

    Don't agree. Corbyn will be properly tested in a leadership election this time. The 'awe shucks I'm just a principled guy who can't dress properly' wont wash this time around.

    He is wet and pathetic and useless and it will come across. The summer romance that elected him is over IMHO. He just helped lose the UK from EU as Toynbee has pointed out. Will the herbivores still back him?
    The herbivores want a leftwing leader to lead them to victory, until they lose a general election under a leftwing leader they won't change their mind I am afraid. Even if Corbyn had been a passionate campaigner for the EU Remain would still have lost, the wwc voters who voted Leave did so because of immigration not because Corbyn was not a committed enough Remainer!
    Then let then choose McDonnell. At least he appears like he can actually organize something.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    rottenborough said:

    Danny565 said:

    A silly and divisive move from Team Corbyn.

    However, the fundamental point still stands: saying that Labour should respond to a Brexit vote by electing a leader who's even more enthusiastically pro-Europe is laughably illogical.

    You are missing the point. The MPs want someone who can actually lead the party, not an idiot. Forget what he stands for.
    Someone who can "actually lead the party" would be someone who has an ability to read the public mood. Hilary Benn self-evidently can't do that, otherwise he would've foreseen that backing staying in the EU was a bad move for Labour.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,629
    brokenwheel said:

    FPT

    John_N4 said:

    brokenwheel said:

    The EU isn't going to allow us to remain even if we wanted to so it's all a bit of wishful thinking.

    That could only possibly be true after Britain has invoked Article 50.

    We will be forced to invoke article 50.
    By what means?
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,700
    Pulpstar said:

    Nah Seriously, if the Labourites think this is the issue to go after Corbyn on then they are utterly deluded.

    No Labour leader will be able to get the working class on the side of the EU for a very very long time.

    Did the Labour voter split end up about 60:40 for Remain and is there much evidence of differential splits actually WITHIN Labour ranks in the Northern towns? Thought the main driver was the 20-25% UKIP vote already seen in places in the North, as opposed to a 10%+ Green vote in a lot of London boroughs.

    And we have the activist : voter base divide to contend with. Again.

    And if does all go up the creek, a leader sending cute puppy dog eyes across the channel may suddenly seem much more appealing.

    There is a gamble here, but it is absolutely the issue to go after Corbyn on.
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    MyBurningEars said:

    https://twitter.com/PDSutherlandUN/status/746687362902728704

    Bit disappointed about the Labour coup - will take news agenda away from nefarious means of reversing the referendum result.

    The Petition has got up to 2.7 million now - I've helped it along a bit, signed quite a few times but am running out of IP addresses. I'm hoping that the more preposterously large the number gets, the more anti-democratic forces can be smoked out by tempting them into "doing a Lammy".

    It's like the Peoples' Choice Awards. I know many who spend hours a week pressing F5 to vote up their preferred screen personality.

    It's weird, but folks do it.
  • alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    The problem with Corbyn isn't that he is left wing. It's that he's a hopeless leader.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    rottenborough said:


    HYUFD said:

    rottenborough said:

    HYUFD said:

    Benn will be as effective as Crispin Blunt was against IDS when he resigned from the Tory front bench in early 2003. Corbyn is strengthened by an Out vote as he is the most Eurosceptic of the Shadow Cabinet and the members still back him. Until Corbyn/McDonnell lose a general election the membership will not consider a more centrist alternative so he stays

    Don't agree. Corbyn will be properly tested in a leadership election this time. The 'awe shucks I'm just a principled guy who can't dress properly' wont wash this time around.

    He is wet and pathetic and useless and it will come across. The summer romance that elected him is over IMHO. He just helped lose the UK from EU as Toynbee has pointed out. Will the herbivores still back him?
    The herbivores want a leftwing leader to lead them to victory, until they lose a general election under a leftwing leader they won't change their mind I am afraid. Even if Corbyn had been a passionate campaigner for the EU Remain would still have lost, the wwc voters who voted Leave did so because of immigration not because Corbyn was not a committed enough Remainer!
    Then let then choose McDonnell. At least he appears like he can actually organize something.
    Interesting that McDonnell's council area in Hillingdon voted 56% Leave.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,022
    I've updated the thread header, now I'm off to get some sleep.
  • LowlanderLowlander Posts: 941
    Pulpstar said:

    Nah Seriously, if the Labourites think this is the issue to go after Corbyn on then they are utterly deluded.

    No Labour leader will be able to get the working class on the side of the EU for a very very long time.

    But if everyone doesn't support immigration and multiculturalism THERE MUST BE SOMEONE TO BLAME.

    It can't possible be the people, they're just deluded, it must be the leader of the Labour Party. It has nothing to do with a complete failure to get a positive message about immigration out there.

    Blame Corbyn and sweep the issues under the carpet. It worked before...
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    AndyJS said:

    With every passing minute the concerns of the Labour Party become more distant from their traditional voters.

    The notion of not interrupting your enemy when they're having a mare clearly hasn't occured to Team Corbyn.

    Still, it makes a change to the narrative!
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    edited June 2016
    alex. said:

    The problem with Corbyn isn't that he is left wing. It's that he's a hopeless leader.

    This is not the same as proving anyone else would be less hopeless. While Corbyn is obviously not doing well, we saw with the Remain Campaign what happens when the Labour moderates' playbook is tried in an electoral contest.
  • alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    PlatoSaid said:

    AndyJS said:

    With every passing minute the concerns of the Labour Party become more distant from their traditional voters.

    The notion of not interrupting your enemy when they're having a mare clearly hasn't occured to Team Corbyn.

    Still, it makes a change to the narrative!
    A bit much to blame "Team Corbyn" when the Parliamentary Party are launching a revolt on Monday morning.
  • brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352
    edited June 2016
    alex. said:

    The problem with Corbyn isn't that he is left wing. It's that he's a hopeless leader.

    Yes of course, because as long as he could "lead" then all traditional Labour voters would suddenly convert to the islington loony left?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,534
    brokenwheel said:

    FPT

    John_N4 said:

    brokenwheel said:

    The EU isn't going to allow us to remain even if we wanted to so it's all a bit of wishful thinking.

    That could only possibly be true after Britain has invoked Article 50.

    We will be forced to invoke article 50.
    Nope.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,076
    alex. said:

    The problem with Corbyn isn't that he is left wing. It's that he's a hopeless leader.

    Hurrah! Exactly. I just don't see what the Corbynists see in him. He is clearly completely and utterly out of his depth.
  • alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    Danny565 said:

    alex. said:

    The problem with Corbyn isn't that he is left wing. It's that he's a hopeless leader.

    This is not the same as proving anyone else would be less hopeless.
    That's a pretty tenuous reason to stick with him.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 7,742
    alex. said:

    The problem with Corbyn isn't that he is left wing. It's that he's a hopeless leader.

    Quite. His biggest problem is questions. As soon as someone challenges him, he gets defensive and comes out with a response that un-voter friendly and ill-advised.

    Say what you want about his principles, presentationally he's awful.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,751
    Danny565 said:

    edmundintokyo said:

    Hilary Benn seems like a plausible leader for SDPv2.

    The way to make it work this time where it failed last time is:
    1) Join with Lib immediately - they need a new brand anyhow.
    2) Get some Tory defectors as well.
    3) Both Con and Lab are split by UKIP, so you have a big centrist block against a fragmented right and left.

    The SDPv2, running on the platform the Lib Dems stood on in 2015 (economic conservatism, cultural liberalism). How well did it work out for them?
    It's didn't work out great for them, but aside from Ed Miliband's token efforts at economic populism (freeze energy bills for 25 minutes or whatever) they were sharing that space with basically the entire Labour and Conservative parties. *And* they'd destroyed their own brand with tuition fees etc.

    Now this huge space is entirely vacant. This is amazing, but true.
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    Pulpstar said:

    RodCrosby said:

    Too many Leftoids really believe Jezza is the Messiah.

    He should put on a string-vest and a pair of Jesus-boots.

    Landslide victory again...

    How do you think Benn / McDonnell would fare ?
    I don't think Corbyn can be dislodged.

    But in an "open" election, probably McDonnell.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,076
    Danny565 said:

    alex. said:

    The problem with Corbyn isn't that he is left wing. It's that he's a hopeless leader.

    This is not the same as proving anyone else would be less hopeless. While Corbyn is obviously not doing well, we saw with the Remain Campaign what happens when the Labour moderates' playbook is tried in an electoral contest.
    Hell, let Labour give it go. Could anyone be worse? Abbot not included.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Typical comment from a Corbyn supporter:

    https://twitter.com/Metanar/status/746867844214833155
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,198
    edited June 2016
    rottenborough said:

    alex. said:

    The problem with Corbyn isn't that he is left wing. It's that he's a hopeless leader.

    Hurrah! Exactly. I just don't see what the Corbynists see in him. He is clearly completely and utterly out of his depth.
    So what, so was IDS who was replaced with Michael Howard who was just as rightwing and lost the 2005 election anyway. If Corbyn is replaced it will only be McDonnell who the members will now accept before the next general election
  • brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352
    RobD said:

    brokenwheel said:

    FPT

    John_N4 said:

    brokenwheel said:

    The EU isn't going to allow us to remain even if we wanted to so it's all a bit of wishful thinking.

    That could only possibly be true after Britain has invoked Article 50.

    We will be forced to invoke article 50.
    By what means?
    A way will be found. I sincerely doubt there is any turning back, the EU is in no mood to compromise.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,751
    edited June 2016
    Just to put that last point another way, the broad positioning of the manifestos on which nearly all MPs have been elected for the last 15 years is now represented exclusively by the LibDems, and nobody's going to vote for them because they're the LibDems.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,534
    edited June 2016
    I expect when he has slept on it, TSE will tell us that the coup against Corbyn was actually being organised by that master tactician, George Osborne. Explains his absence over the past 24 hours...
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,022
    Ok stuck in a tweet by Wes Streeting
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,076
    Right I'm going to bed.

    Which probably means the LibDem MPs will launch a coup against Farron in the next hour.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,316
    I voted for Wes Streeting last year :)
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,534
    Surely Carswell can add to the gaiety of the nation by toppling Farage too?
  • ExiledInScotlandExiledInScotland Posts: 1,540
    brokenwheel said:

    FPT

    John_N4 said:

    brokenwheel said:

    The EU isn't going to allow us to remain even if we wanted to so it's all a bit of wishful thinking.

    That could only possibly be true after Britain has invoked Article 50.

    We will be forced to invoke article 50.
    Forced how? They can't kick us out without a legal mechanism, and there really doesn't seem to be one of those under the Lisbon Treaty. We have to formally notify the European Council of our intention to leave. That's again a formal submission for legal purposes, not some interpretation via the press.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,629
    brokenwheel said:

    RobD said:

    brokenwheel said:

    FPT

    John_N4 said:

    brokenwheel said:

    The EU isn't going to allow us to remain even if we wanted to so it's all a bit of wishful thinking.

    That could only possibly be true after Britain has invoked Article 50.

    We will be forced to invoke article 50.
    By what means?
    A way will be found. I sincerely doubt there is any turning back, the EU is in no mood to compromise.
    There is literally no way in the treaty for another members article 50 declaration to be forced.
  • DisraeliDisraeli Posts: 1,106
    Danny565 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Nah Seriously, if the Labourites think this is the issue to go after Corbyn on then they are utterly deluded.

    No Labour leader will be able to get the working class on the side of the EU for a very very long time.

    Seriously, this whole referendum has confirmed to me (even as someone in the "right-wing half of the party" as of the last leadership election) that the PLP have completely lost their marbles, when it comes to their guiding principles. On the Welfare Bill and cuts more generally, they were/are happy to abstain and throw poor people into poverty, for the sake of electability. Yet when it comes to the EU, they'll go to the mattresses to defend it and that they should be willing to ruin the party's electoral success for its sake, just so they can spout platitudes about how "outward-looking" and "internationalist" they are. Utter madness.
    I wish that this site had a "like" button.
    Well said!
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,022
    On behalf of people who run politics websites & journalists everywhere. Sacking someone at 1am on a Sunday morning is a really bad fucking idea
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,845
    It is really quite impressive for Labour to be appearing more disunited than the Tory Party at the moment.

    Corbyn is in panic mode. Lashing out at people.

    And it ain't over yet
  • PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited June 2016
    PlatoSaid said:

    Us £3ers still have a month or so to go.

    What incredible value.

    Pulpstar said:


    I'll be voting Corbyn first pref.

    Very few of the genuine 3 quidders will re-elect corbyn given the chance. They're the same people who are so outraged by Brexit.

    Corbyn might get some union support and the tory £3'ers, but I doubt that will be enough against a electable centrist.

    Watch Tom Watson. I don't think he wants the gig himself but whoever he supports will probably win.

    Still odds against a successful coup IMO.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    rottenborough said:

    Danny565 said:

    alex. said:

    The problem with Corbyn isn't that he is left wing. It's that he's a hopeless leader.

    This is not the same as proving anyone else would be less hopeless. While Corbyn is obviously not doing well, we saw with the Remain Campaign what happens when the Labour moderates' playbook is tried in an electoral contest.
    Hell, let Labour give it go. Could anyone be worse? Abbot not included.
    Yes, it definitely can. May's local election results were not very good, but the vote atleast held up decently in the Labour heartlands, as opposed to what happened in the EU Referendum.

    I know you don't agree with me, but I genuinely believe the Remain campaign (which, again, many of the Labour "moderates" were seriously involved in the planning of) is a preview of what will happen if they get control of the party -- utter wipeout for Labour outside of London. The SPAD class of Labour have spent so long insulated in their bubble that they are utterly disconnected from "normal people". I would happily vote for Benn if I thought he'd be a successful leader electorally, but I genuinely believe that he (and most other Labour MPs) has absolutely no clue how WWC Labour voters think or what kind of arguments resonate with them, even less of a clue than Corbyn.
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,845
    AndyJS said:

    Typical comment from a Corbyn supporter:

    https://twitter.com/Metanar/status/746867844214833155

    So he wants Corbyn to declare war on the Parliamentary Labour Party? Such clarity of thinking there...
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,235
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    On behalf of people who run politics websites & journalists everywhere. Sacking someone at 1am on a Sunday morning is a really bad fucking idea

    Does seem strange. Wonder if something was afoot in time for the Sunday morning shows.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,534
    RobD said:

    brokenwheel said:

    RobD said:

    brokenwheel said:

    FPT

    John_N4 said:

    brokenwheel said:

    The EU isn't going to allow us to remain even if we wanted to so it's all a bit of wishful thinking.

    That could only possibly be true after Britain has invoked Article 50.

    We will be forced to invoke article 50.
    By what means?
    A way will be found. I sincerely doubt there is any turning back, the EU is in no mood to compromise.
    There is literally no way in the treaty for another members article 50 declaration to be forced.
    The giving of the Article 50 notice will be the first item of business of the first Cabinet meeting of the new Prime Minister. Not until.
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    edited June 2016
    AndyJS said:

    MyBurningEars said:

    https://twitter.com/PDSutherlandUN/status/746687362902728704

    Bit disappointed about the Labour coup - will take news agenda away from nefarious means of reversing the referendum result.

    The Petition has got up to 2.7 million now - I've helped it along a bit, signed quite a few times but am running out of IP addresses. I'm hoping that the more preposterously large the number gets, the more anti-democratic forces can be smoked out by tempting them into "doing a Lammy".

    Another supreme anti-democrat.
    SUTHERLAND...
    image
  • LowlanderLowlander Posts: 941
    ExiledInScotland said:

    brokenwheel said:

    FPT

    John_N4 said:

    brokenwheel said:

    The EU isn't going to allow us to remain even if we wanted to so it's all a bit of wishful thinking.

    That could only possibly be true after Britain has invoked Article 50.

    We will be forced to invoke article 50.
    Forced how? They can't kick us out without a legal mechanism, and there really doesn't seem to be one of those under the Lisbon Treaty. We have to formally notify the European Council of our intention to leave. That's again a formal submission for legal purposes, not some interpretation via the press.
    The EU are quoting RBS vs Wilson which defines that Shall means Will. It is possible they will use that in the ECJ to rule that not on Shall means Will but WIll means Now.

    There is little other reason for their use of the language.
  • YellowSubmarineYellowSubmarine Posts: 2,740
    Excellent news on Corbyn. The PLP needs to declare UDI from it's membership before it can reconnect with it's voters.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,629
    edited June 2016
    MarqueeMark said:

    RobD said:

    brokenwheel said:

    RobD said:

    brokenwheel said:

    FPT

    John_N4 said:

    brokenwheel said:

    The EU isn't going to allow us to remain even if we wanted to so it's all a bit of wishful thinking.

    That could only possibly be true after Britain has invoked Article 50.

    We will be forced to invoke article 50.
    By what means?
    A way will be found. I sincerely doubt there is any turning back, the EU is in no mood to compromise.
    There is literally no way in the treaty for another members article 50 declaration to be forced.
    The giving of the Article 50 notice will be the first item of business of the first Cabinet meeting of the new Prime Minister. Not until.
    And Cameron will not give it, or give a canned response saying that HMG is considering its response to the consultative referendum.

    Ah sorry, thought you said Council meeting. Yes, I agree with you, although a GE may get in the way?
This discussion has been closed.

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