"On Thursday British voters willfully walked off a cliff when they decided to leave the European Union. The “Brexit” victory is a defeat for Britain, Europe and the global economy.
Tens of millions of Britons voted for isolation — to go it alone — rather than for cooperation. The European Union just lost a sixth of its economy, roughly akin to Florida and California seceding from the United States. The impact on the British economy could be catastrophic. Europe’s unified stance against a reemerging and aggressive Russia will be splintered."
That is possibly the dumbest sto-, oh what's the use. I guess we'll just have to let people vent for a while. I'm probably over tired at this point. Early morning walk will wake me up a bit.
Cam's gamble on the referendum just been described as "bigger than Suez" on Today.
If Labour's 1983 manifesto was the longest suicide note in history then this was, as someone described last night, the most bitter suicide note in history.
Meanwhile I am Just waiting for Tyson and Meeks to pop up and blame the result on all the racist xenophobic little Englander nutters that live there for jumping on their collective hobby horses.
You've done the job for me. It's a dark day in our history, a bad decision taken for worse reasons.
We're going to find out what it means to put the country in the hands of people who are tired of experts. I can't say that fills me with optimism.
It hasn't been a good 24 hours for 'experts'.
They called the pound collapse and market meltdown post-Brexit correctly.
Not really, we're not much further down from where we were a week or so ago before the MP died and Leave's momentum was halted, at least publicly.
Come off it - the FTSE is forecast to drop over 500 points and the pound is trading at levels last seen in the mid-80s.
Been there done that in 1992. Did wonders for the economy though.
When you have a record current account deficit and stagnation in most sectors of the economy you need a devaluation to balance the figures and the economy.
Since when did we return to Willy-waving about the strength of the currency?
Cam's gamble on the referendum just been described as "bigger than Suez" on Today.
The difference, I would think (though I do not know my Suez history) is that the EU issue was of such a level it had to be tackled at some point head on. Really, it should have happened years ago, probably with greater success. So I don't think it was a gamble - if it were avoidable, he'd have avoided it.
Many immigrants will be upset and concerned this morning. Whether you think they are right or wrong to be concerned, we need to try to prevent a fault-line developing between 'them' and 'us' (however you define those groups).
It's time to tone down the rhetoric a bit. Perhaps even time to hug an immigrant.
Yes and No. There was a fairly noticeably migrants-for-leave vote, most of my family and friends are migrants and yet Mrs Indigo was down the polling booth for leave pretty much a soon as it opened. Lots of migrants think it is very strange that we are happy to let other people run our country.
And one further thing: let's stop all talk about EFTA and the EEA. It's not what the people voted for, and will not fulfil what was a massive issue in the referendum: immigration.
Let's give the people what they voted for.
£350m a week extra to the NHS.
£100m I think you will find
The result hasn't even been officially announced and the leavers are already letting the voters down.
One by one all their promises will fall apart and they'll have to find a new enemy to blame.
I wonder what Rump EU will make of this as they wake up this morning? I think I am about to find out... Anyway...let's get down to the important stuff.
Now we are X-EU can we now have our fish n' chips in newspaper again?
Commiserations to those who are disappointed this morning. I think most of us know the sadness and melancholy of decisions being taken that affect us but that we profoundly disagree with.
Although a Leave result has been achieved, it is a narrow win that also presents some constitutional questions. I hope that, once the hurt and the celebrations subside, the country can come together. The people and government need to compromise; now more than ever government must be for all, not just those who are winning or those who have won.
I am going to try to be careful in my words and considerate in my deeds today - emotions will be running high, there is no need to raise them further.
And one further thing: let's stop all talk about EFTA and the EEA. It's not what the people voted for, and will not fulfil what was a massive issue in the referendum: immigration.
Let's give the people what they voted for.
£350m a week extra to the NHS.
Well, yes. Whilst keeping the subsidies to all the other groups that get them.
But it's clear that EEA and EFTA membership was *not* what the leave campaigns were about (I cannot remember seeing them on any leaflets).
The people voted for control of immigration; it was a cornerstone of their campaigns. EEA or EFTA would be a betrayal of that.
Yes. LEAVE could have focused on burocacy or sovereignty - but chose immigration instead - it's on that basis that any deal would have to be done.
I wonder what Rump EU will make of this as they wake up this morning? I think I am about to find out... Anyway...let's get down to the important stuff.
Now we are X-EU can we now have our fish n' chips in newspaper again?
I wonder what Rump EU will make of this as they wake up this morning? I think I am about to find out...
If they cannot now rise to the challenge to prevent others existing it deserves to fall - if you want to be a democratic organisation but also cannot keep the demos on side, then you deserve to fail. Perhaps this will finally be what convinces them to change course (ironically into something more we'd have voted for).
In the short term, they surely have to, after expressing disappointment in gracious fashion at our leaving, hit us for everything they can? They us to go through hell to show others the risks are not mere scaremongering.
So, what's the consensus on here on whether we join EFTA or go completely out?
Will end up with something that looks like EFTA, even if it's not called that. Large traders on both sides want to see agreement and the politicians will be rather more pragmatic in the face of the result than they were in the heat of the campaign.
So far I think leave has the tone right. The last thing that is needed is parties and champagne. The Country is effectively split down the middle and calm is needed by everyone
Meanwhile I am Just waiting for Tyson and Meeks to pop up and blame the result on all the racist xenophobic little Englander nutters that live there for jumping on their collective hobby horses.
You've done the job for me. It's a dark day in our history, a bad decision taken for worse reasons.
We're going to find out what it means to put the country in the hands of people who are tired of experts. I can't say that fills me with optimism.
It hasn't been a good 24 hours for 'experts'.
They called the pound collapse and market meltdown post-Brexit correctly.
Not really, we're not much further down from where we were a week or so ago before the MP died and Leave's momentum was halted, at least publicly.
Come off it - the FTSE is forecast to drop over 500 points and the pound is trading at levels last seen in the mid-80s.
Been there done that in 1992. Did wonders for the economy though.
When you have a record current account deficit and stagnation in most sectors of the economy you need a devaluation to balance the figures and the economy.
Quite. Leaving the ERM was the firing of the starting gun on a decade and a half of growth.
So far I think leave has the tone right. The last thing that is needed is parties and champagne. The Country is effectively split down the middle and calm is needed by everyone
Yep, calm and collected, and preferably cross-party
And one further thing: let's stop all talk about EFTA and the EEA. It's not what the people voted for, and will not fulfil what was a massive issue in the referendum: immigration.
Let's give the people what they voted for.
As Dan Hannan said just now: there is only one clear mandate from the people - to leave the EU.
(((Dan Hodges))) Retweeted Sky News Newsdesk @SkyNewsBreak 5m5 minutes ago Financial Times reports Standard & Poor's says the UK is likely to lose its AAA credit rating #EUref
What Cameron should do is offer to steer the country until the party conference and then leave it open to the party to replace him at that point. That would be statesmanlike. Not sure after his appalling campaign that he can do it, but here's hoping.
A nice profit for me too, £400 up on the night, though on the wrong side of the turnout market.
Likely more to come with the fallout in terms of Cameron going and surly a GE soon. I cannot see how a Parliament 75% for Remain can negotiate Brexit. The end of the United Kingdom too surely.
I am not happy with the result but at least plenty to bet on politically.
Labour are really going to have to accept reducing immigration as a policy. They will lose half of their base if they continue to think if 'understanding concerns' and 'reducing the effects' will do.
(((Dan Hodges))) Retweeted Sky News Newsdesk @SkyNewsBreak 5m5 minutes ago Financial Times reports Standard & Poor's says the UK is likely to lose its AAA credit rating #EUref
Take a look at the last six months rather than just today for feck sake. Even if as expected it opens 500ish points down, that is still comfortably above where it was in quite a lot of Jan-Feb this year, and similar to several months last year.
Same with currencies. Half the drop in cable was gains from the last 10 days.
I hope that, once the hurt and the celebrations subside, the country can come together.
Which country? The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is over.
Oh come come. Please let's not have too much rancour now the campaign has passed.
Umm, he is right. The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is over. If you are very lucky you might get a the New Nation of England and Wales and NI.
Anger at Cameron from remainers is understandable this morning, although quite frankly is still displacement unless they admit the real anger is for the voters - no one went into the vote blind, even a blind mole rat saw the claims of each side.
Well done to all who have worked to make this election happen and have campaigned on either side. I do hope we can be friends.
On the other hand the LDs in the count tonight... What a tedious bunch of wank*rs. Standing around between 4 and 5 discussing how the electorate had got it wrong. Seriously WTF.
A nice profit for me too, £400 up on the night, though on the wrong side of the turnout market.
Likely more to come with the fallout in terms of Cameron going and surly a GE soon. I cannot see how a Parliament 75% for Remain can negotiate Brexit. The end of the United Kingdom too surely.
I am not happy with the result but at least plenty to bet on politically.
Why should a GE give us a parliament in favour of Brexit? More likely it would be more pro Remain as Tories elected last year get crushed.
(((Dan Hodges))) Retweeted Sky News Newsdesk @SkyNewsBreak 5m5 minutes ago Financial Times reports Standard & Poor's says the UK is likely to lose its AAA credit rating #EUref
Moody's removed our AAA rating in 2013.
Bearing in mind that these people gave buckets of excrement a AAA rating which caused the sub prime crash, no one actually takes much notice. Basically they are trolls.
Leavers seeking the country to unite after the decision might have thought a bit more about the aftermath while conducting their campaign.
Include me out. Pursue your mad agenda obtained by pandering to xenophobia by yourselves. I see no reason why I should assist in such a folly.
I agree Alistair. I accept the result without equivocation. It must be implemented. But this isn't a General Election. I don't wish the new government well despite not having voted for it. I feel diminished and that part of my identity has been torn away. The people have spoken but they can now get on with it. I feel no need to ' rally round '.
And one further thing: let's stop all talk about EFTA and the EEA. It's not what the people voted for, and will not fulfil what was a massive issue in the referendum: immigration.
Let's give the people what they voted for.
As Dan Hannan said just now: there is only one clear mandate from the people - to leave the EU.
Everything else is supposition
The campaigns specifically had immigration as their basis, and it's clear that many leavers voted precisely to control immigration.
How often did the leave campaigns' leaflets mention immigration? How many times did they mention EEA and EFTA?
I know that you were planning on an EEA / EFTA outcome; I think you are going to be disappointed.
I hope that, once the hurt and the celebrations subside, the country can come together.
Which country? The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is over.
Oh come come. Please let's not have too much rancour now the campaign has passed.
Umm, he is right. The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is over. If you are very lucky you might get a the New Nation of England and Wales and NI.
Scotland needs to see what sort of EU takes shape after this, whether it wants to join it and whether it wants Scotland to be a part. None of these are certain and Scots may decide that they'd rather stay in their 309-year Union. They may not and good luck to them if not. England and Wales is an even older Union & would survive Scotland's exit.
PBers, do you think Brexit will lead to a significant interest rate rise (I hope not)?
The BoE uses interest rates to control inflation. The short-term challenge of market volatility is best met by providing liquidity (which will be done jointly with the ECB). Best answer I can give you at the moment.
Meanwhile I am Just waiting for Tyson and Meeks to pop up and blame the result on all the racist xenophobic little Englander nutters that live there for jumping on their collective hobby horses.
You've done the job for me. It's a dark day in our history, a bad decision taken for worse reasons.
We're going to find out what it means to put the country in the hands of people who are tired of experts. I can't say that fills me with optimism.
It hasn't been a good 24 hours for 'experts'.
They called the pound collapse and market meltdown post-Brexit correctly.
It's not a meitdown. It's a rebasing.
If the sharp falls continue into next week then there's an argument that it could be a meltdown
A nice profit for me too, £400 up on the night, though on the wrong side of the turnout market.
Likely more to come with the fallout in terms of Cameron going and surly a GE soon. I cannot see how a Parliament 75% for Remain can negotiate Brexit. The end of the United Kingdom too surely.
I am not happy with the result but at least plenty to bet on politically.
Why should a GE give us a parliament in favour of Brexit? More likely it would be more pro Remain as Tories elected last year get crushed.
But who by? What happens if major party candidates stand in front of voters and say "Well I thought Remain was best, but please still vote for me"?
And one further thing: let's stop all talk about EFTA and the EEA. It's not what the people voted for, and will not fulfil what was a massive issue in the referendum: immigration.
Let's give the people what they voted for.
As Dan Hannan said just now: there is only one clear mandate from the people - to leave the EU.
Everything else is supposition
The campaigns specifically had immigration as their basis, and it's clear that many leavers voted precisely to control immigration.
How often did the leave campaigns' leaflets mention immigration? How many times did they mention EEA and EFTA?
I know that you were planning on an EEA / EFTA outcome; I think you are going to be disappointed.
A lot of people are going to be disappointed. Free movement of Labour continues until at least two years after article 50 invocation. There are no quick fixes to what ails the UK.
Many immigrants will be upset and concerned this morning. Whether you think they are right or wrong to be concerned, we need to try to prevent a fault-line developing between 'them' and 'us' (however you define those groups).
It's time to tone down the rhetoric a bit. Perhaps even time to hug an immigrant.
Yes and No. There was a fairly noticeably migrants-for-leave vote, most of my family and friends are migrants and yet Mrs Indigo was down the polling booth for leave pretty much a soon as it opened. Lots of migrants think it is very strange that we are happy to let other people run our country.
But as I say below (and have throughout this campaign): the EU did not - and does not - 'run' our country. It may have ended up that way - that's one thing I feared about remaining- but they did not.
The problems and issues facing the country are our own fault and responsibility both before and after this vote.
PBers, do you think Brexit will lead to a significant interest rate rise (I hope not)?
Unlikely in the short term. The BoE mandate is to use interest rates to control inflation, if the drop in the pound causes imported inflation then a small rise might be in order, but that is a few months away yet.
When it comes to politics I'm rarely right, disappointment goes hand in hand with Ukip, but for months I've told this site that the WC (I refuse to use WWC) would win it. When you've knocked on thousands of doors and met thousands more in the street you get to understand what life is like outside of London and the media/Westminster bubble.
My prediction was 52% Leave with a 52% turnout, miles wrong with the second but it gives the win more conviction.
Well done to the decent Remainers, there's millions of you, who campaigned with dignity. I sincerely, if naively, hope this is the most important decision in our modern political history and that politicians, starting at the very top, remember who they are and what they were elected for: to serve the public, not the other way round.
Just a thought, but this is a pretty hard result on Scotland. They will be leaving the EU even though they voted 2-1 to stay in.
And the problems with them gaining admission as a new state over Spain's objections still haven't gone away. It seems very unlikely that even a second referendum on independence will get them EU membership in less than five years from the UK leaving.
Congratulations to the Leave campaign. Democracy has spoken and it must be served.
I speak here as an expat which is a fancy word used here to describe British immigrants to other countries, in my case Spain. I am immensely sad at the result as it sends to where I live an awful message of rejection to people I view as friends. Also for Brits abroad most of us have got an immediate and very concrete drop in our UK pensions to contend with along with much uncertainty about our future status regarding residence, healthcare, property rights and so on. I am personally not that much affected but I know many of my friends will be in pretty dire straits very quickly due to the drop in the value of the £.
I now pray that the politicians can bring some kind of stability as quickly as possible and answers for some of the many questions which will affect our sleep for many, many nights beyond today.
It's good to hear that the Pound is regaining against the Dollar as well. Hopefully the economic apocalypse predicted by the Remain camp won't come to fruition.
John Redwood told Sky News that Mr Cameron would have to "build a new government that binds together the party" in the wake of the referendum battle", adding: "There's a lot of talent on the Leave side and he needs to harness that to bring the country together."
So any guesses how the Tory front bench will look. Boris, Redwood, Rees-Mogg, Gove?
So how can the Scots avoid calling a referendum (if indeed they don't want one?) Hold it tomorrow and they'd win, presumably.
I doubt they would. The fundamentals for Scotland haven't changed.
How have they not? People will vote for some level of economic turmoil, if they think it is acceptable. They might now have changed their minds on how much they are willing to accept.
Father forgive them, for they know not what they do.
Come on. If this referendum says one thing (there are many) it's that the metropolitan elites should stop being so detached and sneering towards 'ordinary' people. The people have spoken. It's over. Now to fashion our future.
Comments
Phew, lucky escape.
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/gove-pledges-extra-100m-for-the-nhs-after-brexit-cxlgfx92j
Anyway...let's get down to the important stuff.
Now we are X-EU can we now have our fish n' chips in newspaper again?
Although a Leave result has been achieved, it is a narrow win that also presents some constitutional questions. I hope that, once the hurt and the celebrations subside, the country can come together. The people and government need to compromise; now more than ever government must be for all, not just those who are winning or those who have won.
I am going to try to be careful in my words and considerate in my deeds today - emotions will be running high, there is no need to raise them further.
https://uk.search.yahoo.com/search?fr=mcafee&type=C111GB0D20151004&p=mr+blue+sky+youtube
In the short term, they surely have to, after expressing disappointment in gracious fashion at our leaving, hit us for everything they can? They us to go through hell to show others the risks are not mere scaremongering.
Include me out. Pursue your mad agenda obtained by pandering to xenophobia by yourselves. I see no reason why I should assist in such a folly.
Everything else is supposition
(((Dan Hodges))) Retweeted
Sky News Newsdesk @SkyNewsBreak 5m5 minutes ago
Financial Times reports Standard & Poor's says the UK is likely to lose its AAA credit rating #EUref
Likely more to come with the fallout in terms of Cameron going and surly a GE soon. I cannot see how a Parliament 75% for Remain can negotiate Brexit. The end of the United Kingdom too surely.
I am not happy with the result but at least plenty to bet on politically.
https://twitter.com/chrisshipitv/status/746214576048353280
Well, it's done. Just back from the count at Mid Sussex which was 53/47 to Remain on an 80.8% turnout.
I did call the result at 3.23 here
https://twitter.com/BenedictMPWhite/status/746166758961201152
Well done to all who have worked to make this election happen and have campaigned on either side. I do hope we can be friends.
On the other hand the LDs in the count tonight... What a tedious bunch of wank*rs. Standing around between 4 and 5 discussing how the electorate had got it wrong. Seriously WTF.
Before the campaign we spoke of reputations being trashed, even now you are incapable of demonstrating any sort of humility.
Countries without current account deficits at record levels do not have strong currencies.
How often did the leave campaigns' leaflets mention immigration? How many times did they mention EEA and EFTA?
I know that you were planning on an EEA / EFTA outcome; I think you are going to be disappointed.
If the sharp falls continue into next week then there's an argument that it could be a meltdown
I know we are supposed to say "Forgive them for they know not what they do" - I am going to find it very difficult.
"rottenborough Posts: 4,532
5:57AM
BBC now saying it's democracy. I'm sorry but that is bollocks."
Jeeeezzz......That's right up there with Tysons disenfranchise those from the vote that don't vote as He wanted.
Listening to these statements from you guys just convinces me even more that this great country made the right democratic choice.
Get over it or just get lost....
The problems and issues facing the country are our own fault and responsibility both before and after this vote.
My prediction was 52% Leave with a 52% turnout, miles wrong with the second but it gives the win more conviction.
Well done to the decent Remainers, there's millions of you, who campaigned with dignity. I sincerely, if naively, hope this is the most important decision in our modern political history and that politicians, starting at the very top, remember who they are and what they were elected for: to serve the public, not the other way round.
And yes, I will be absolutely smashed today.
And the problems with them gaining admission as a new state over Spain's objections still haven't gone away. It seems very unlikely that even a second referendum on independence will get them EU membership in less than five years from the UK leaving.
I speak here as an expat which is a fancy word used here to describe British immigrants to other countries, in my case Spain. I am immensely sad at the result as it sends to where I live an awful message of rejection to people I view as friends. Also for Brits abroad most of us have got an immediate and very concrete drop in our UK pensions to contend with along with much uncertainty about our future status regarding residence, healthcare, property rights and so on. I am personally not that much affected but I know many of my friends will be in pretty dire straits very quickly due to the drop in the value of the £.
I now pray that the politicians can bring some kind of stability as quickly as possible and answers for some of the many questions which will affect our sleep for many, many nights beyond today.
Philip Hammond rather good just now on Sky.
It's good to hear that the Pound is regaining against the Dollar as well. Hopefully the economic apocalypse predicted by the Remain camp won't come to fruition.
So any guesses how the Tory front bench will look.
Boris, Redwood, Rees-Mogg, Gove?
Can't blame her. If pandering to xenophobia worked here, there must be a decent chance it would work in France too.