politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » As Andy Burnham speaks about the very real prospect of Brex
Comments
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Yes.weejonnie said:
Does that mean kowtowing to every new piece of policy, instruction and legislation emanating from the EU - because that is the current policy.FF43 said:
Sure they do. Carry on as at present,PClipp said:
And Remain do not have a policy either. Nobody has a clue how far Cameron will go if the Remain campaign gets a majority. I think we ought to be told beforehand.FF43 said:Maybe that indicates the problem with a referendum. Ticking a box marked "leave" isn't a substitute for a policy. As you point out the Brexit politicians don't have a policy. The question is whether the public realise that.
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I'm sure the Trident subs will be put to sea, if that's what you mean.tlg86 said:
Do you think the authorities are preparing for trouble on 24 June in the event of Leave winning?Paul_Bedfordshire said:
I put up a leave poster, the first time I have ever put up a poster.weejonnie said:I forecast that this would start to happen last week.
http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/06/10/pictures-pro-brexit-shop-owned-elderly-brothers-windows-smashed-london/
More Remain panic
If it gets attacked (to be fair not very likely in my part of the world) I will take great pleasure in sending Mr Dacre some appropriate sadface pictures.0 -
Imagery is important. Brexit isn't like a divorce with the option of finding or not finding another partner at leisure. Brexit is more like leaving your house. It might not be ideal but it keeps the rain off. Most of us would like to have some idea of where we are going to live before we move.
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Leave didn't say £350 million a week on the NHS. That is the total amount they claim would be saved. The number Leave have been suggesting for extra for the NHA is £100 million a week.TheWhiteRabbit said:
They have a policy when it suits them, and not when it suits them.Indigo said:
It's not their job to have a policy. Its their job to campaign for an exit. What happens then is up to the elected government, taking into account what they can get through parliament, and if they want to be re-elected in GE2020.FF43 said:
Maybe that indicates the problem with a referendum. Ticking a box marked "leave" isn't a substitute for a policy. As you point out the Brexit politicians don't have a policy. The question is whether the public realise that.Indigo said:
Clearly time for our daily reminder that "BrExit" politicians (especially Farage) are not taking the country anywhere since this is not a General Election.FF43 said:Whether Remain staggers across the finishing line depends on how many people fed up with the EU realise that the Brexit politicians haven't a clue where they are taking Britain. Two weeks. It's going to be tight.
The existing government, possibly with a new leader, who May or may not be a Leaver, or even an face we expect, will be taking Britain forward if there is a BrExit, if they have failed to make sufficient plans for that then they are negligent and deserve any kicking they get at the next GE.
As I have said before, its Leave's job to procure a divorce, not suggest the next girlfriend, or comment on that relationship that persists with the ex.
Boris wants to raise the spectre of a £2bn cut in VAT on heating. Gove talks about £1bn more on science. Both want £350m/week more on the NHS. They ant to cut immigration to tens of thousands.
Those are all policies, none of which is supposedly their remit to suggest.
The fact that a post-exit government might choose to do those things (but not all of them!) is not the way it is framed.
And on the latest estimates the cut in VAT on heating will cost around £500 million a year not £2 billion.0 -
Sounds like a "proportional" response to trouble makers in London!RobD said:
I'm sure the Trident subs will be put to sea, if that's what you mean.tlg86 said:
Do you think the authorities are preparing for trouble on 24 June in the event of Leave winning?Paul_Bedfordshire said:
I put up a leave poster, the first time I have ever put up a poster.weejonnie said:I forecast that this would start to happen last week.
http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/06/10/pictures-pro-brexit-shop-owned-elderly-brothers-windows-smashed-london/
More Remain panic
If it gets attacked (to be fair not very likely in my part of the world) I will take great pleasure in sending Mr Dacre some appropriate sadface pictures.
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I would hope that the authorities are always preparing for trouble in places like Camberwell!tlg86 said:
Do you think the authorities are preparing for trouble on 24 June in the event of Leave winning?Paul_Bedfordshire said:
I put up a leave poster, the first time I have ever put up a poster.weejonnie said:I forecast that this would start to happen last week.
http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/06/10/pictures-pro-brexit-shop-owned-elderly-brothers-windows-smashed-london/
More Remain panic
If it gets attacked (to be fair not very likely in my part of the world) I will take great pleasure in sending Mr Dacre some appropriate sadface pictures.0 -
No, Brexit is more like leaving a burning house. You may get a little wet outside but it is still better than staying inside and getting burnt.Fernando said:Imagery is important. Brexit isn't like a divorce with the option of finding or not finding another partner at leisure. Brexit is more like leaving your house. It might not be ideal but it keeps the rain off. Most of us would like to have some idea of where we are going to live before we move.
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Not exactly clear on the BattleBus:Richard_Tyndall said:
Leave didn't say £350 million a week on the NHS.TheWhiteRabbit said:
They have a policy when it suits them, and not when it suits them.Indigo said:
It's not their job to have a policy. Its their job to campaign for an exit. What happens then is up to the elected government, taking into account what they can get through parliament, and if they want to be re-elected in GE2020.FF43 said:
Maybe that indicates the problem with a referendum. Ticking a box marked "leave" isn't a substitute for a policy. As you point out the Brexit politicians don't have a policy. The question is whether the public realise that.Indigo said:
Clearly time for our daily reminder that "BrExit" politicians (especially Farage) are not taking the country anywhere since this is not a General Election.FF43 said:Whether Remain staggers across the finishing line depends on how many people fed up with the EU realise that the Brexit politicians haven't a clue where they are taking Britain. Two weeks. It's going to be tight.
The existing government, possibly with a new leader, who May or may not be a Leaver, or even an face we expect, will be taking Britain forward if there is a BrExit, if they have failed to make sufficient plans for that then they are negligent and deserve any kicking they get at the next GE.
As I have said before, its Leave's job to procure a divorce, not suggest the next girlfriend, or comment on that relationship that persists with the ex.
Boris wants to raise the spectre of a £2bn cut in VAT on heating. Gove talks about £1bn more on science. Both want £350m/week more on the NHS. They ant to cut immigration to tens of thousands.
Those are all policies, none of which is supposedly their remit to suggest.
The fact that a post-exit government might choose to do those things (but not all of them!) is not the way it is framed.
We send £350 million a week to the EU
Lets fund our NHS Instead. Vote Leave.0 -
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Without his permission.TheScreamingEagles said:
There's a reason why the mailshot I received from Remain the other day featured Martin Lewis so heavily.TheWhiteRabbit said:FPT
Reading the Ashcroft focus group, it seems random members of the public have their heads screwed on more tightly than politicians would like! They end up with some sort of sensible view despite being presented with two diametrically opposed, extreme ones.0 -
Very clear. No where does it say lets spend the whole amount on the NHS and the explicit figure Leave have used for the NHS (which is to be honest a little pointless as they won't be deciding where it is spent) is £100 million a week.CarlottaVance said:
Not exactly clear on the BattleBus:Richard_Tyndall said:
Leave didn't say £350 million a week on the NHS.TheWhiteRabbit said:
They have a policy when it suits them, and not when it suits them.Indigo said:
It's not their job to have a policy. Its their job to campaign for an exit. What happens then is up to the elected government, taking into account what they can get through parliament, and if they want to be re-elected in GE2020.FF43 said:
Maybe that indicates the problem with a referendum. Ticking a box marked "leave" isn't a substitute for a policy. As you point out the Brexit politicians don't have a policy. The question is whether the public realise that.Indigo said:
Clearly time for our daily reminder that "BrExit" politicians (especially Farage) are not taking the country anywhere since this is not a General Election.FF43 said:Whether Remain staggers across the finishing line depends on how many people fed up with the EU realise that the Brexit politicians haven't a clue where they are taking Britain. Two weeks. It's going to be tight.
The existing government, possibly with a new leader, who May or may not be a Leaver, or even an face we expect, will be taking Britain forward if there is a BrExit, if they have failed to make sufficient plans for that then they are negligent and deserve any kicking they get at the next GE.
As I have said before, its Leave's job to procure a divorce, not suggest the next girlfriend, or comment on that relationship that persists with the ex.
Boris wants to raise the spectre of a £2bn cut in VAT on heating. Gove talks about £1bn more on science. Both want £350m/week more on the NHS. They ant to cut immigration to tens of thousands.
Those are all policies, none of which is supposedly their remit to suggest.
The fact that a post-exit government might choose to do those things (but not all of them!) is not the way it is framed.
We send £350 million a week to the EU
Lets fund our NHS Instead. Vote Leave.0 -
Wrong.Fernando said:Imagery is important. Brexit isn't like a divorce with the option of finding or not finding another partner at leisure. Brexit is more like leaving your house. It might not be ideal but it keeps the rain off. Most of us would like to have some idea of where we are going to live before we move.
Brexit's just putting a lock on your front door.0 -
Nowhere does it say 'only spend £100 million' on the NHS.Richard_Tyndall said:
No where does it say lets spend the whole amount on the NHSCarlottaVance said:
Not exactly clear on the BattleBus:Richard_Tyndall said:
Leave didn't say £350 million a week on the NHS.TheWhiteRabbit said:
They have a policy when it suits them, and not when it suits them.Indigo said:
It's not their job to have a policy. Its their job to campaign for an exit. What happens then is up to the elected government, taking into account what they can get through parliament, and if they want to be re-elected in GE2020.FF43 said:
Maybe that indicates the problem with a referendum. Ticking a box marked "leave" isn't a substitute for a policy. As you point out the Brexit politicians don't have a policy. The question is whether the public realise that.Indigo said:
Clearly time for our daily reminder that "BrExit" politicians (especially Farage) are not taking the country anywhere since this is not a General Election.FF43 said:Whether Remain staggers across the finishing line depends on how many people fed up with the EU realise that the Brexit politicians haven't a clue where they are taking Britain. Two weeks. It's going to be tight.
The existing government, possibly with a new leader, who May or may not be a Leaver, or even an face we expect, will be taking Britain forward if there is a BrExit, if they have failed to make sufficient plans for that then they are negligent and deserve any kicking they get at the next GE.
As I have said before, its Leave's job to procure a divorce, not suggest the next girlfriend, or comment on that relationship that persists with the ex.
Boris wants to raise the spectre of a £2bn cut in VAT on heating. Gove talks about £1bn more on science. Both want £350m/week more on the NHS. They ant to cut immigration to tens of thousands.
Those are all policies, none of which is supposedly their remit to suggest.
The fact that a post-exit government might choose to do those things (but not all of them!) is not the way it is framed.
We send £350 million a week to the EU
Lets fund our NHS Instead. Vote Leave.
The £350 is a lie, and the NHS linkage dishonest, given the subsequent caveat....0 -
But they have given the £100mn elsewhere. Given that it doesn't say "let's spend it on our NHS instead", I don't see that it is a huge problem.CarlottaVance said:
Nowhere does it say 'only spend £100 million' on the NHS.Richard_Tyndall said:
No where does it say lets spend the whole amount on the NHSCarlottaVance said:
Not exactly clear on the BattleBus:Richard_Tyndall said:
Leave didn't say £350 million a week on the NHS.TheWhiteRabbit said:
They have a policy when it suits them, and not when it suits them.Indigo said:
It's not their job to have a policy. Its their job to campaign for an exit. What happens then is up to the elected government, taking into account what they can get through parliament, and if they want to be re-elected in GE2020.FF43 said:
Maybe that indicates the problem with a referendum. Ticking a box marked "leave" isn't a substitute for a policy. As you point out the Brexit politicians don't have a policy. The question is whether the public realise that.Indigo said:
Clearly time for our daily reminder that "BrExit" politicians (especially Farage) are not taking the country anywhere since this is not a General Election.FF43 said:Whether Remain staggers across the finishing line depends on how many people fed up with the EU realise that the Brexit politicians haven't a clue where they are taking Britain. Two weeks. It's going to be tight.
The existing government, possibly with a new leader, who May or may not be a Leaver, or even an face we expect, will be taking Britain forward if there is a BrExit, if they have failed to make sufficient plans for that then they are negligent and deserve any kicking they get at the next GE.
As I have said before, its Leave's job to procure a divorce, not suggest the next girlfriend, or comment on that relationship that persists with the ex.
Boris wants to raise the spectre of a £2bn cut in VAT on heating. Gove talks about £1bn more on science. Both want £350m/week more on the NHS. They ant to cut immigration to tens of thousands.
Those are all policies, none of which is supposedly their remit to suggest.
The fact that a post-exit government might choose to do those things (but not all of them!) is not the way it is framed.
We send £350 million a week to the EU
Lets fund our NHS Instead. Vote Leave.
The £350 is a lie, and the NHS linkage dishonest, given the subsequent caveat....0 -
To me, too much of the Leave “plans” smack of paying a club membership, which entitles one to cheap theatre tickets (or booze, or books, whatever), then resigning. However, after resignation it appears we’re going to to turn up and ask for the same benefits.MonikerDiCanio said:
Wrong.Fernando said:Imagery is important. Brexit isn't like a divorce with the option of finding or not finding another partner at leisure. Brexit is more like leaving your house. It might not be ideal but it keeps the rain off. Most of us would like to have some idea of where we are going to live before we move.
Brexit's just putting a lock on your front door.
In my experience, things just don’t work like that!0 -
Its certainly an interesting brexit negotiating ploy by Boris. We want single market access without the free movement bit or the Royal Navy turns Brussels into a radioactive hole in the ground in 5 minutes.RobD said:
Not such a good ploy if the negotiations are actually in Brussels or you will be inconvenienced by the inevitable disruption of Eurostar services though.0 -
I have long been sceptical of polls showing 70% of Labour will vote to remain. I think Lab voters will be at least 40% for leave.brokenwheel said:
Indeed, I work in the public sector. To my surprise it's the nailed-on Labourites who are either backing leave (put off by over-egged scare stories, I now understand why Nicola et al quickly attacked Cameron over that) or are lean remain but not arsed to vote.Paul_Bedfordshire said:
Think you need to go and read what Lsbour MP John Mann wrote in Todays Sun before coming to conclusions about what Labour voters will do.theakes said:I suspect Remain are pulling ahead and with the younger ones registering, provided they make it to the polling booths, it should be comfortable. The majority of Labour voters seem to be backing Remain, you cannot expect everyone to think alike inevitably 25% will not. It is the same in all parties. Suggest everyone calms down and just let the process occue in two weeks. Suspect this on Friday 24th there will be no change and we can all just get on with our lives.
It's the lean Cons who the scare stories are getting traction with, which in retrospect shouldn't surprise as they are the ones with more to lose.
It is worth looking at the AV referendum results for a guide
Ed Miliband campaigned for AV but despite that if you look at England only 6 Labour councils in London plus Oxford and Cambridge voted for AV.
If you look at Labour areas outside London, the only areas where yes to AV got over 35% were
Yorkshire & Humber - York and Sheffield
West Midlands - Birmingham
South West - Bristol and Exeter
South East - Slough, Brighton, Southampton (+Oxford mentioned above)
North West - Liverpool, Manchester, Wigan
North East - Newcastle
Eastern - Norwich (+Cambridge mentioned above)
East Midlands - Nottingham and Leicester
Conversely if we look at Lab areas where No got above 70%
Yorkshire & Humber - Barnsley, Doncaster, NE Lincs, N Lincs, Rotherham, Wakefield
West Midlands - Dudley, Newcastle-U-Lyme, Sandwell, Stoke, Walsall, Wolverhampton
South West - Plymouth (not sure who runs this council currently)
South East - None but lots of formerly Lab areas like Dartford and Dover
North West - Barrow, Blackburn, Blackpool, Bolton, Burnley, Bury, Chorley, Copeland, Halton, Hyndburn, Oldham, Rochdale, Sefton, St Helens, Tameside, W Lancs, Wirral
North East - All Lab councils except Newcastle
Eastern - None but former lab areas like Basildon and Harlow
East Midlands - Ashfield, Bassetlaw, Bolsover, Chesterfield, Gedling, Mansfield, Newark & S, NE Derbys,
While this referendum will be closer, I'm expecting all the first group of councils to be for remain and most of the second group to be for leave.
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The meme is obviously a huge problem for Remain judging by the squealingRobD said:
But they have given the £100mn elsewhere. Given that it doesn't say "let's spend it on our NHS instead", I don't see that it is a huge problem.CarlottaVance said:
Nowhere does it say 'only spend £100 million' on the NHS.Richard_Tyndall said:
No where does it say lets spend the whole amount on the NHSCarlottaVance said:
Not exactly clear on the BattleBus:Richard_Tyndall said:
Leave didn't say £350 million a week on the NHS.TheWhiteRabbit said:
They have a policy when it suits them, and not when it suits them.Indigo said:
It's not their job to have a policy. Its their job to campaign for an exit. What happens then is up to the elected government, taking into account what they can get through parliament, and if they want to be re-elected in GE2020.FF43 said:
Maybe that indicates the problem with a referendum. Ticking a box marked "leave" isn't a substitute for a policy. As you point out the Brexit politicians don't have a policy. The question is whether the public realise that.Indigo said:
Clearly time for our daily reminder that "BrExit" politicians (especially Farage) are not taking the country anywhere since this is not a General Election.FF43 said:Whether Remain staggers across the finishing line depends on how many people fed up with the EU realise that the Brexit politicians haven't a clue where they are taking Britain. Two weeks. It's going to be tight.
The existing government, possibly with a new leader, who May or may not be a Leaver, or even an face we expect, will be taking Britain forward if there is a BrExit, if they have failed to make sufficient plans for that then they are negligent and deserve any kicking they get at the next GE.
As I have said before, its Leave's job to procure a divorce, not suggest the next girlfriend, or comment on that relationship that persists with the ex.
Boris wants to raise the spectre of a £2bn cut in VAT on heating. Gove talks about £1bn more on science. Both want £350m/week more on the NHS. They ant to cut immigration to tens of thousands.
Those are all policies, none of which is supposedly their remit to suggest.
The fact that a post-exit government might choose to do those things (but not all of them!) is not the way it is framed.
We send £350 million a week to the EU
Lets fund our NHS Instead. Vote Leave.
The £350 is a lie, and the NHS linkage dishonest, given the subsequent caveat....0 -
Visited the Der Spiegel site to see whether Mr Schauble had said anything else of note. I'll have to wait until tomorrow. However, while I was there, I did find this interesting (it's in English, never fear!) - an undercover reporter who bravely infiltrates the Brexit movement:
http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/brexit-from-the-inside-the-movement-to-leave-the-eu-a-1093895.html0 -
So no plans needed. But do the residents hold a referendum before escaping a burning building?Richard_Tyndall said:
No, Brexit is more like leaving a burning house. You may get a little wet outside but it is still better than staying inside and getting burnt.Fernando said:Imagery is important. Brexit isn't like a divorce with the option of finding or not finding another partner at leisure. Brexit is more like leaving your house. It might not be ideal but it keeps the rain off. Most of us would like to have some idea of where we are going to live before we move.
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All kinds. She is finished now and Nigel Farage is on, not sure if it is available as a recording anywhere.Alistair said:what kind of brilliant?
Brilliant as in the audience were asking detailed, pointed, intelligent questions and follow-ups, probing the apparent disconnect between campaigning to leave/stay in a political Union simultaneously, asking about future scenarios and consequences of various votes, and she handled it with skill, dexterity and aplomb.
As she did last night actually.
I am no fan. I detest her brand of Nationalist politics, I don't think the SNP in Government are good for Scotland, and I can't see myself voting for her, but as a politician she is at the top of her game right now (and will need to be over the next Scottish Parliament)
In contrast
@WikiGuido: Horrendous first answer from Farage on @BuzzFeedUKPol Q&A. Leave will be thanking their lucky stars this isn't on telly.0 -
@KateEMcCann: Those asking for link to Farage Buzzfeed Facebook thing, it's live here: https://t.co/Y5USqNdYnQ
@BBCPhilipSim: Nigel Farage says Oldham is like "Belfast". "One side of the street is white, the other side is black". Says there needs to be more "mixing"0 -
If 40% Labour voters vote Leave then Leave have won.GarethoftheVale2 said:
I have long been sceptical of polls showing 70% of Labour will vote to remain. I think Lab voters will be at least 40% for leave.brokenwheel said:
Indeed, I work in the public sector. To my surprise it's the nailed-on Labourites who are either backing leave (put off by over-egged scare stories, I now understand why Nicola et al quickly attacked Cameron over that) or are lean remain but not arsed to vote.Paul_Bedfordshire said:
Think you need to go and read what Lsbour MP John Mann wrote in Todays Sun before coming to conclusions about what Labour voters will do.theakes said:I suspect Remain are pulling ahead and with the younger ones registering, provided they make it to the polling booths, it should be comfortable. The majority of Labour voters seem to be backing Remain, you cannot expect everyone to think alike inevitably 25% will not. It is the same in all parties. Suggest everyone calms down and just let the process occue in two weeks. Suspect this on Friday 24th there will be no change and we can all just get on with our lives.
It's the lean Cons who the scare stories are getting traction with, which in retrospect shouldn't surprise as they are the ones with more to lose.
It is worth looking at the AV referendum results for a guide
Ed Miliband campaigned for AV but despite that if you look at England only 6 Labour councils in London plus Oxford and Cambridge voted for AV.
If you look at Labour areas outside London, the only areas where yes to AV got over 35% were
Yorkshire & Humber - York and Sheffield
West Midlands - Birmingham
South West - Bristol and Exeter
South East - Slough, Brighton, Southampton (+Oxford mentioned above)
North West - Liverpool, Manchester, Wigan
North East - Newcastle
Eastern - Norwich (+Cambridge mentioned above)
East Midlands - Nottingham and Leicester
Conversely if we look at Lab areas where No got above 70%
Yorkshire & Humber - Barnsley, Doncaster, NE Lincs, N Lincs, Rotherham, Wakefield
West Midlands - Dudley, Newcastle-U-Lyme, Sandwell, Stoke, Walsall, Wolverhampton
South West - Plymouth (not sure who runs this council currently)
South East - None but lots of formerly Lab areas like Dartford and Dover
North West - Barrow, Blackburn, Blackpool, Bolton, Burnley, Bury, Chorley, Copeland, Halton, Hyndburn, Oldham, Rochdale, Sefton, St Helens, Tameside, W Lancs, Wirral
North East - All Lab councils except Newcastle
Eastern - None but former lab areas like Basildon and Harlow
East Midlands - Ashfield, Bassetlaw, Bolsover, Chesterfield, Gedling, Mansfield, Newark & S, NE Derbys,
While this referendum will be closer, I'm expecting all the first group of councils to be for remain and most of the second group to be for leave.0 -
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My Mum is voting Leave and she's a valley girl from a coal mining family. Until Ed Miliband hove into view you couldn't have induced her to vote anything but Labour.GarethoftheVale2 said:
I have long been sceptical of polls showing 70% of Labour will vote to remain. I think Lab voters will be at least 40% for leave.brokenwheel said:
Indeed, I work in the public sector. To my surprise it's the nailed-on Labourites who are either backing leave (put off by over-egged scare stories, I now understand why Nicola et al quickly attacked Cameron over that) or are lean remain but not arsed to vote.Paul_Bedfordshire said:
Think you need to go and read what Lsbour MP John Mann wrote in Todays Sun before coming to conclusions about what Labour voters will do.theakes said:I suspect Remain are pulling ahead and with the younger ones registering, provided they make it to the polling booths, it should be comfortable. The majority of Labour voters seem to be backing Remain, you cannot expect everyone to think alike inevitably 25% will not. It is the same in all parties. Suggest everyone calms down and just let the process occue in two weeks. Suspect this on Friday 24th there will be no change and we can all just get on with our lives.
It's the lean Cons who the scare stories are getting traction with, which in retrospect shouldn't surprise as they are the ones with more to lose.
It is worth looking at the AV referendum results for a guide
Ed Miliband campaigned for AV but despite that if you look at England only 6 Labour councils in London plus Oxford and Cambridge voted for AV.
If you look at Labour areas outside London, the only areas where yes to AV got over 35% were
Yorkshire & Humber - York and Sheffield
West Midlands - Birmingham
South West - Bristol and Exeter
South East - Slough, Brighton, Southampton (+Oxford mentioned above)
North West - Liverpool, Manchester, Wigan
North East - Newcastle
Eastern - Norwich (+Cambridge mentioned above)
East Midlands - Nottingham and Leicester
Conversely if we look at Lab areas where No got above 70%
Yorkshire & Humber - Barnsley, Doncaster, NE Lincs, N Lincs, Rotherham, Wakefield
West Midlands - Dudley, Newcastle-U-Lyme, Sandwell, Stoke, Walsall, Wolverhampton
South West - Plymouth (not sure who runs this council currently)
South East - None but lots of formerly Lab areas like Dartford and Dover
North West - Barrow, Blackburn, Blackpool, Bolton, Burnley, Bury, Chorley, Copeland, Halton, Hyndburn, Oldham, Rochdale, Sefton, St Helens, Tameside, W Lancs, Wirral
North East - All Lab councils except Newcastle
Eastern - None but former lab areas like Basildon and Harlow
East Midlands - Ashfield, Bassetlaw, Bolsover, Chesterfield, Gedling, Mansfield, Newark & S, NE Derbys,
While this referendum will be closer, I'm expecting all the first group of councils to be for remain and most of the second group to be for leave.
I'm genuinely interested in seeing the Labour turnout and vote share, irrespective of the result. I've a strong suspicion that the PLP doesn't understand its own base any longer.0 -
Looks like Michael Fabricant is about to defect from Leave:
Michael Fabricant @Mike_Fabricant
Following the lead of others, I have been re-assessing my position re #Europe.
I shall be making a statement at the weekend on @ConHome0 -
Guido thinks he is taking the pissCasino_Royale said:Looks like Michael Fabricant is about to defect from Leave:
Michael Fabricant @Mike_Fabricant
Following the lead of others, I have been re-assessing my position re #Europe.
I shall be making a statement at the weekend on @ConHome0 -
That's interesting. Metro centres and university towns only.GarethoftheVale2 said:
I have long been sceptical of polls showing 70% of Labour will vote to remain. I think Lab voters will be at least 40% for leave.brokenwheel said:
Indeed, I work in the public sector. To my surprise it's the nailed-on Labourites who are either backing leave (put off by over-egged scare stories, I now understand why Nicola et al quickly attacked Cameron over that) or are lean remain but not arsed to vote.Paul_Bedfordshire said:
Think you need to go and read what Lsbour MP John Mann wrote in Todays Sun before coming to conclusions about what Labour voters will do.theakes said:I suspect Remain are pulling ahead and with the younger ones registering, provided they make it to the polling booths, it should be comfortable. The majority of Labour voters seem to be backing Remain, you cannot expect everyone to think alike inevitably 25% will not. It is the same in all parties. Suggest everyone calms down and just let the process occue in two weeks. Suspect this on Friday 24th there will be no change and we can all just get on with our lives.
It's the lean Cons who the scare stories are getting traction with, which in retrospect shouldn't surprise as they are the ones with more to lose.
It is worth looking at the AV referendum results for a guide
Ed Miliband campaigned for AV but despite that if you look at England only 6 Labour councils in London plus Oxford and Cambridge voted for AV.
If you look at Labour areas outside London, the only areas where yes to AV got over 35% were
Yorkshire & Humber - York and Sheffield
West Midlands - Birmingham
South West - Bristol and Exeter
South East - Slough, Brighton, Southampton (+Oxford mentioned above)
North West - Liverpool, Manchester, Wigan
North East - Newcastle
Eastern - Norwich (+Cambridge mentioned above)
East Midlands - Nottingham and Leicester
Conversely if we look at Lab areas where No got above 70%
Yorkshire & Humber - Barnsley, Doncaster, NE Lincs, N Lincs, Rotherham, Wakefield
West Midlands - Dudley, Newcastle-U-Lyme, Sandwell, Stoke, Walsall, Wolverhampton
South West - Plymouth (not sure who runs this council currently)
South East - None but lots of formerly Lab areas like Dartford and Dover
North West - Barrow, Blackburn, Blackpool, Bolton, Burnley, Bury, Chorley, Copeland, Halton, Hyndburn, Oldham, Rochdale, Sefton, St Helens, Tameside, W Lancs, Wirral
North East - All Lab councils except Newcastle
Eastern - None but former lab areas like Basildon and Harlow
East Midlands - Ashfield, Bassetlaw, Bolsover, Chesterfield, Gedling, Mansfield, Newark & S, NE Derbys,
While this referendum will be closer, I'm expecting all the first group of councils to be for remain and most of the second group to be for leave.
If the two London polls showing 57-43 (Yougov) and 60-40 (Opinium) are on the money - and they have been pretty good at calling London - then provincial Labour are going to hammer Remain.0 -
In the 1960s we found that a market of 60 million was too small to support the economies of scale and levels of investment needed to compete and maintain our standard of living. We entered the EC as a consequence. And we have done well . This was true in my twenties; why is it not now? Or have we grown so use to the solution that we have forgotten the original problem.
I've not come across any overseas investors (in my case mostly Americans) who would do anything but invest less in the UK if we leave the EU. This is not a trivial matter.0 -
Hair today; Goon tomorrow.Casino_Royale said:Looks like Michael Fabricant is about to defect from Leave:
Michael Fabricant @Mike_Fabricant
Following the lead of others, I have been re-assessing my position re #Europe.
I shall be making a statement at the weekend on @ConHome0 -
-
One wonders how any country outside the EU manages to survive!Fernando said:In the 1960s we found that a market of 60 million was too small to support the economies of scale and levels of investment needed to compete and maintain our standard of living. We entered the EC as a consequence. And we have done well . This was true in my twenties; why is it not now? Or have we grown so use to the solution that we have forgotten the original problem.
I've not come across any overseas investors (in my case mostly Americans) who would do anything but invest less in the UK if we leave the EU. This is not a trivial matter.0 -
Has an extra from 'the walking dead' slipped in there?Scott_P said:0 -
Not sure if posted earlier but ITV debate last night only averaged 3m viewers.
Quite a bit lower than the 4.1m average for the ITV Cameron / Farage programme on Tuesday (which peaked at 4.8m in the Cameron segment).0 -
Ah, just seen that. Maybe this is for shits and giggles then.Scott_P said:
Guido thinks he is taking the pissCasino_Royale said:Looks like Michael Fabricant is about to defect from Leave:
Michael Fabricant @Mike_Fabricant
Following the lead of others, I have been re-assessing my position re #Europe.
I shall be making a statement at the weekend on @ConHome0 -
Possibly because we never benefitted from the economies of scale. Our manufacturing sector has been butchered and only German industry is reaping the economies of scale.Fernando said:In the 1960s we found that a market of 60 million was too small to support the economies of scale and levels of investment needed to compete and maintain our standard of living. We entered the EC as a consequence. And we have done well . This was true in my twenties; why is it not now? Or have we grown so use to the solution that we have forgotten the original problem.
I've not come across any overseas investors (in my case mostly Americans) who would do anything but invest less in the UK if we leave the EU. This is not a trivial matter.
Possibly also because only one half of our society has done well and the other half has seen wage stagnation, houses beyond their means and the wholesale change of their communities.0 -
Top Gear was on last night.................................on The Dave Channel ;-)MikeL said:Not sure if posted earlier but ITV debate last night only averaged 3m viewers.
Quite a bit lower than the 4.1m average for the ITV Cameron / Farage programme on Tuesday (which peaked at 4.8m in the Cameron segment).0 -
Just seen that labour remain graphic below - terrible0
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Who is the bloke in the tie? Is he somebody we are supposed to recognize?Razedabode said:And here's Labour new shareable graphic. https://t.co/cV77eAxmGm
Look at this fancy new Labour remain graphic..0 -
I'm sure he is - he's been very robust in his comments on the subject....Scott_P said:
Guido thinks he is taking the pissCasino_Royale said:Looks like Michael Fabricant is about to defect from Leave:
Michael Fabricant @Mike_Fabricant
Following the lead of others, I have been re-assessing my position re #Europe.
I shall be making a statement at the weekend on @ConHome0 -
Just caught up on last night's Question Time.
WTF was that?
Who in the Remain camp thought he'd be a good choice? I don't think he appeals to young voters as much as he did 10 years ago or so. Most of them probably don't know who he is, or if they do aren't swayed by him.0 -
In the unlikely event of a leave win the Tory position shifting is going to be seismic.Casino_Royale said:Looks like Michael Fabricant is about to defect from Leave:
Michael Fabricant @Mike_Fabricant
Following the lead of others, I have been re-assessing my position re #Europe.
I shall be making a statement at the weekend on @ConHome0 -
Momentum group uses 'offensive' swastika placard in advert promoting debate on antisemitism
http://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/159231/momentum-group-uses-offensive-swastika-placard-advert-promoting-debate-antisemit0 -
I agree; Farage has been on QT far too often recentlyGravitation said:Just caught up on last night's Question Time.
WTF was that?
Who in the Remain camp thought he'd be a good choice? I don't think he appeals to young voters as much as he did 10 years ago or so. Most of them probably don't know who he is, or if they do aren't swayed by him. 0 -
For London, I would suggest all the boroughs on the map below in green and the lightest shade of pink will vote remain plus maybe Enfield (trending Lab), Bromley (lots of city workers) and Hammersmith (quite prosperous)chestnut said:
That's interesting. Metro centres and university towns only.GarethoftheVale2 said:
I have long been sceptical of polls showing 70% of Labour will vote to remain. I think Lab voters will be at least 40% for leave.brokenwheel said:
Indeed, I work in the public sector. To my surprise it's the nailed-on Labourites who are either backing leave (put off by over-egged scare stories, I now understand why Nicola et al quickly attacked Cameron over that) or are lean remain but not arsed to vote.Paul_Bedfordshire said:
Think you need to go and read what Lsbour MP John Mann wrote in Todays Sun before coming to conclusions about what Labour voters will do.theakes said:I suspect Remain are pulling ahead and with the younger ones registering, provided they make it to the polling booths, it should be comfortable. The majority of Labour voters seem to be backing Remain, you cannot expect everyone to think alike inevitably 25% will not. It is the same in all parties. Suggest everyone calms down and just let the process occue in two weeks. Suspect this on Friday 24th there will be no change and we can all just get on with our lives.
It's the lean Cons who the scare stories are getting traction with, which in retrospect shouldn't surprise as they are the ones with more to lose.
It is worth looking at the AV referendum results for a guide
Ed Miliband campaigned for AV but despite that if you look at England only 6 Labour councils in London plus Oxford and Cambridge voted for AV.
If you look at Labour areas outside London, the only areas where yes to AV got over 35% were
Yorkshire & Humber - York and Sheffield
West Midlands - Birmingham
South West - Bristol and Exeter
South East - Slough, Brighton, Southampton (+Oxford mentioned above)
North West - Liverpool, Manchester, Wigan
North East - Newcastle
Eastern - Norwich (+Cambridge mentioned above)
East Midlands - Nottingham and Leicester
Conversely if we look at Lab areas where No got above 70%
Yorkshire & Humber - Barnsley, Doncaster, NE Lincs, N Lincs, Rotherham, Wakefield
West Midlands - Dudley, Newcastle-U-Lyme, Sandwell, Stoke, Walsall, Wolverhampton
South West - Plymouth (not sure who runs this council currently)
South East - None but lots of formerly Lab areas like Dartford and Dover
North West - Barrow, Blackburn, Blackpool, Bolton, Burnley, Bury, Chorley, Copeland, Halton, Hyndburn, Oldham, Rochdale, Sefton, St Helens, Tameside, W Lancs, Wirral
North East - All Lab councils except Newcastle
Eastern - None but former lab areas like Basildon and Harlow
East Midlands - Ashfield, Bassetlaw, Bolsover, Chesterfield, Gedling, Mansfield, Newark & S, NE Derbys,
While this referendum will be closer, I'm expecting all the first group of councils to be for remain and most of the second group to be for leave.
If the two London polls showing 57-43 (Yougov) and 60-40 (Opinium) are on the money - and they have been pretty good at calling London - then provincial Labour are going to hammer Remain.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_Alternative_Vote_referendum,_2011#/media/File:Greater_London_UK_district_map_2011-05-05_referendum.png0 -
Guido's spreadsheet now has Con MPs as follows:Casino_Royale said:Looks like Michael Fabricant is about to defect from Leave:
Michael Fabricant @Mike_Fabricant
Following the lead of others, I have been re-assessing my position re #Europe.
I shall be making a statement at the weekend on @ConHome
Remain - 180
Leave - 140
Not declared - 10
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1vp6viBi5DA4avMgR2Y8lKrrAUqJp-0zL2LZB6iVD3uU/edit?pref=2&pli=1#gid=4506565510 -
I think most young people don't even know he used to be a very famous comedian...if they have heard of him, he is the person who runs dem marathons.Gravitation said:Just caught up on last night's Question Time.
WTF was that?
Who in the Remain camp thought he'd be a good choice? I don't think he appeals to young voters as much as he did 10 years ago or so. Most of them probably don't know who he is, or if they do aren't swayed by him.0 -
The world is very different now, trade is totally different now, and the EU is unrecognisably different now. It's an analogue union in a digital age.Fernando said:In the 1960s we found that a market of 60 million was too small to support the economies of scale and levels of investment needed to compete and maintain our standard of living. We entered the EC as a consequence. And we have done well . This was true in my twenties; why is it not now? Or have we grown so use to the solution that we have forgotten the original problem.
I've not come across any overseas investors (in my case mostly Americans) who would do anything but invest less in the UK if we leave the EU. This is not a trivial matter.
Vote Leave.0 -
Rob, if you can name one country (not in the single market) lacking many natural resources, densely populated and dependent on trade, you might have some credibility. The nearest comparator is probably Japan and even that is twice our size.0
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I mean...why?Scott_P said:0 -
Agree - even handled some questions bordering on the loony very well - I caught up on BuzzFeedUK's FaceBook Page.Scott_P said:
Brilliant as in the audience were asking detailed, pointed, intelligent questions and follow-ups, probing the apparent disconnect between campaigning to leave/stay in a political Union simultaneously, asking about future scenarios and consequences of various votes, and she handled it with skill, dexterity and aplomb.Alistair said:what kind of brilliant?
Nige isn't have much fun....0 -
Men In Suits. Seriously? Is this a spoof?Slackbladder said:
Has an extra from 'the walking dead' slipped in there?Scott_P said:Wow,
ttps://twitter.com/stephenkb/status/7412898293847490560 -
South Korea.Fernando said:Rob, if you can name one country (not in the single market) lacking many natural resources, densely populated and dependent on trade, you might have some credibility. The nearest comparator is probably Japan and even that is twice our size.
And it has a difficult neighbour to boot.0 -
South Korea would probably be a good example.Fernando said:Rob, if you can name one country (not in the single market) lacking many natural resources, densely populated and dependent on trade, you might have some credibility. The nearest comparator is probably Japan and even that is twice our size.
0 -
Martin Lewis (the most trusted person in Britain) was on This Week with Andrew Neil last night.Casino_Royale said:
Without his permission.TheScreamingEagles said:
There's a reason why the mailshot I received from Remain the other day featured Martin Lewis so heavily.TheWhiteRabbit said:FPT
Reading the Ashcroft focus group, it seems random members of the public have their heads screwed on more tightly than politicians would like! They end up with some sort of sensible view despite being presented with two diametrically opposed, extreme ones.
He said that in his view there was more risk/uncertainty attached to the LEAVE option than the REMAIN option.
He said he was using risk in the financial sense that there was greater uncertainty to the LEAVE option but whilst there might be more downside as a result, there might also be more upside.
He said he was somewhat risk averse and so was 60/40 in favour of REMAIN.0 -
South Korea? Smaller than us by a good way, not overly endowed with natural resources, huge defence budget and trading all over the world with great success. They even manage to sell stuff to us in the EU.Fernando said:Rob, if you can name one country (not in the single market) lacking many natural resources, densely populated and dependent on trade, you might have some credibility. The nearest comparator is probably Japan and even that is twice our size.
0 -
Really? So tell me why it is that with the exception of one year in the mid 80s, the last time we had a balance of trade surplus with the countries of the EEC/EU was the year before we joined? Apparently membership was so vital that it was worth destroying balance of trade surplus with the EEC to do it.Fernando said:In the 1960s we found that a market of 60 million was too small to support the economies of scale and levels of investment needed to compete and maintain our standard of living. We entered the EC as a consequence. And we have done well . This was true in my twenties; why is it not now? Or have we grown so use to the solution that we have forgotten the original problem.
I've not come across any overseas investors (in my case mostly Americans) who would do anything but invest less in the UK if we leave the EU. This is not a trivial matter.0 -
Not so sure about Bromley, it has a lot of WWC who have sold their ex council house in Southwark/lewisham and moved out to Bromley these daysGarethoftheVale2 said:
For London, I would suggest all the boroughs on the map below in green and the lightest shade of pink will vote remain plus maybe Enfield (trending Lab), Bromley (lots of city workers) and Hammersmith (quite prosperous)chestnut said:
That's interesting. Metro centres and university towns only.GarethoftheVale2 said:
I have long been sceptical of polls showing 70% of Labour will vote to remain. I think Lab voters will be at least 40% for leave.brokenwheel said:
Indeed, I work in the public sector. To my surprise it's the nailed-on Labourites who are either backing leave (put off by over-egged scare stories, I now understand why Nicola et al quickly attacked Cameron over that) or are lean remain but not arsed to vote.Paul_Bedfordshire said:
Think you need to go and read what Lsbour MP John Mann wrote in Todays Sun before coming to conclusions about what Labour voters will do.theakes said:I suspect Remain are pulling ahead and with the younger ones registering, provided they make it to the polling booths, it should be comfortable. The majority of Labour voters seem to be backing Remain, you cannot expect everyone to think alike inevitably 25% will not. It is the same in all parties. Suggest everyone calms down and just let the process occue in two weeks. Suspect this on Friday 24th there will be no change and we can all just get on with our lives.
It's the lean Cons who the scare stories are getting traction with, which in retrospect shouldn't surprise as they are the ones with more to lose.
It is worth looking at the AV referendum results for a guide
Ed Miliband campaigned for AV but despite that if you look at England only 6 Labour councils in London plus Oxford and Cambridge voted for AV.
If you look at Labour areas outside London, the only areas where yes to AV got over 35% were
Yorkshire & Humber - York and Sheffield
West Midlands - Birmingham
South West - Bristol and Exeter
South East - Slough, Brighton, Southampton (+Oxford mentioned above)
North West - Liverpool, Manchester, Wigan
North East - Newcastle
Eastern - Norwich (+Cambridge mentioned above)
East Midlands - Nottingham and Leicester
Conversely if we look at Lab areas where No got above 70%
Yorkshire & Humber - Barnsley, Doncaster, NE Lincs, N Lincs, Rotherham, Wakefield
West Midlands - Dudley, Newcastle-U-Lyme, Sandwell, Stoke, Walsall, Wolverhampton
South West - Plymouth (not sure who runs this council currently)
South East - None but lots of formerly Lab areas like Dartford and Dover
North West - Barrow, Blackburn, Blackpool, Bolton, Burnley, Bury, Chorley, Copeland, Halton, Hyndburn, Oldham, Rochdale, Sefton, St Helens, Tameside, W Lancs, Wirral
North East - All Lab councils except Newcastle
Eastern - None but former lab areas like Basildon and Harlow
East Midlands - Ashfield, Bassetlaw, Bolsover, Chesterfield, Gedling, Mansfield, Newark & S, NE Derbys,
While this referendum will be closer, I'm expecting all the first group of councils to be for remain and most of the second group to be for leave.
If the two London polls showing 57-43 (Yougov) and 60-40 (Opinium) are on the money - and they have been pretty good at calling London - then provincial Labour are going to hammer Remain.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_Alternative_Vote_referendum,_2011#/media/File:Greater_London_UK_district_map_2011-05-05_referendum.png0 -
He's taking the piss. I just checked his timeline.Alanbrooke said:
In the unlikely event of a leave win the Tory position shifting is going to be seismic.Casino_Royale said:Looks like Michael Fabricant is about to defect from Leave:
Michael Fabricant @Mike_Fabricant
Following the lead of others, I have been re-assessing my position re #Europe.
I shall be making a statement at the weekend on @ConHome
I am still learning my way around Twitter. Another lesson I learnt today: check everything and don't post in haste.
Someone will pull you up on it.0 -
Alanbrooke, you are joking? So you think somewhere like South Korea is a model for us. What are their wage levels? What sort of welfare state can they support?0
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Oh would you look at that, just below us in the league table:Fernando said:Alanbrooke, you are joking? So you think somewhere like South Korea is a model for us. What are their wage levels? What sort of welfare state can they support?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_average_wage0 -
55/45 to Remain. But yes that's enough to shift a few votes.David_Evershed said:
Martin Lewis (the most trusted person in Britain) was on This Week with Andrew Neil last night.Casino_Royale said:
Without his permission.TheScreamingEagles said:
There's a reason why the mailshot I received from Remain the other day featured Martin Lewis so heavily.TheWhiteRabbit said:FPT
Reading the Ashcroft focus group, it seems random members of the public have their heads screwed on more tightly than politicians would like! They end up with some sort of sensible view despite being presented with two diametrically opposed, extreme ones.
He said that in his view there was more risk/uncertainty attached to the LEAVE option than the REMAIN option.
He said he was using risk in the financial sense that there was greater uncertainty to the LEAVE option but whilst there might be more downside as a result, there might also be more upside.
He said he was somewhat risk averse and so was 60/40 in favour of REMAIN.0 -
So now you are just making stuff up then. Claiming that Leave have said they will spend the whole £350 million on the NHS when they have not said that anywhere. Utter dishonesty from you.CarlottaVance said:
Nowhere does it say 'only spend £100 million' on the NHS.Richard_Tyndall said:
No where does it say lets spend the whole amount on the NHSCarlottaVance said:
Not exactly clear on the BattleBus:Richard_Tyndall said:
Leave didn't say £350 million a week on the NHS.TheWhiteRabbit said:
They have a policy when it suits them, and not when it suits them.Indigo said:
It's not their job to have a policy. Its their job to campaign for an exit. What happens then is up to the elected government, taking into account what they can get through parliament, and if they want to be re-elected in GE2020.FF43 said:
Maybe that indicates the problem with a referendum. Ticking a box marked "leave" isn't a substitute for a policy. As you point out the Brexit politicians don't have a policy. The question is whether the public realise that.Indigo said:
Clearly time for our daily reminder that "BrExit" politicians (especially Farage) are not taking the country anywhere since this is not a General Election.FF43 said:Whether Remain staggers across the finishing line depends on how many people fed up with the EU realise that the Brexit politicians haven't a clue where they are taking Britain. Two weeks. It's going to be tight.
The existing government, possibly with a new leader, who May or may not be a Leaver, or even an face we expect, will be taking Britain forward if there is a BrExit, if they have failed to make sufficient plans for that then they are negligent and deserve any kicking they get at the next GE.
As I have said before, its Leave's job to procure a divorce, not suggest the next girlfriend, or comment on that relationship that persists with the ex.
Boris wants to raise the spectre of a £2bn cut in VAT on heating. Gove talks about £1bn more on science. Both want £350m/week more on the NHS. They ant to cut immigration to tens of thousands.
Those are all policies, none of which is supposedly their remit to suggest.
The fact that a post-exit government might choose to do those things (but not all of them!) is not the way it is framed.
We send £350 million a week to the EU
Lets fund our NHS Instead. Vote Leave.
The £350 is a lie, and the NHS linkage dishonest, given the subsequent caveat....
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This is what is doing for Remain.Alanbrooke said:
Possibly also because only one half of our society has done well and the other half has seen wage stagnation, houses beyond their means and the wholesale change of their communities.0 -
@RobDotHutton: Farage describes Justin Welby as "this troublesome priest that we have in Canterbury".0
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Have you ever heard of the Internet? I believe you can actually go and look shit up on there.Fernando said:Alanbrooke, you are joking? So you think somewhere like South Korea is a model for us. What are their wage levels? What sort of welfare state can they support?
Just in case you are irredeemably Google challenged. South Korea is 28th in GDP per capita. The UK is 25th.
0 -
Second highest suicide rate in the world. Very high levels of depression. The Koreans are not a happy bunch.Fernando said:Alanbrooke, you are joking? So you think somewhere like South Korea is a model for us. What are their wage levels? What sort of welfare state can they support?
0 -
LOL! Farage going out of his way to win over the CofE!Scott_P said:@RobDotHutton: Farage describes Justin Welby as "this troublesome priest that we have in Canterbury".
0 -
Yet more Remain dishonesty. He was very, very unhappy about it as well.Casino_Royale said:
Without his permission.TheScreamingEagles said:
There's a reason why the mailshot I received from Remain the other day featured Martin Lewis so heavily.TheWhiteRabbit said:FPT
Reading the Ashcroft focus group, it seems random members of the public have their heads screwed on more tightly than politicians would like! They end up with some sort of sensible view despite being presented with two diametrically opposed, extreme ones.0 -
@ObiDanKelnobi: @Jake_Wilde Why is no one talking about what's going on with that 'R'? It's like it's got an 'I' overlaid on top. It's driving me nuts.SeanT said:The worst piece of political "art" ever produced?
Gotta be up there.0 -
I find it compelling. Bold and clean. And then there's that strange figure in it. On a tube platform you would turn away and then keep turning back to take another look and think, what are they trying to tell me?SeanT said:
https://twitter.com/stephenkb/status/741289829384749056
The worst piece of political "art" ever produced?
Gotta be up there.
All the other EUref publicity is so banal you filter it out.
0 -
If you ask a rigged question why should you be surprised at the answer ?Fernando said:Alanbrooke, you are joking? So you think somewhere like South Korea is a model for us. What are their wage levels? What sort of welfare state can they support?
You exclude nearly all the world's developed economies with not in the EU and no natural resources. There are lots of examples of small countries such as Singapore or Taiwan thriving on trade.
Wheter we want to adopt their systems or not I seriously doubt. But then again we don't want to adopt the European system either. The point of contolli9ng your own destiny is you can adapt things to suit your own set of circumstances.
Being in a trade bloc doesn't guarantee success as the Mediterranean states are discovering to their cost - or rather the cost of their citizens.0 -
The kerning is wrong. Damn. What has been seen cannot be unseen.Scott_P said:
@ObiDanKelnobi: @Jake_Wilde Why is no one talking about what's going on with that 'R'? It's like it's got an 'I' overlaid on top. It's driving me nuts.SeanT said:The worst piece of political "art" ever produced?
Gotta be up there.0 -
Linked more to culture, then economics, surely?SouthamObserver said:
Second highest suicide rate in the world. Very high levels of depression. The Koreans are not a happy bunch.Fernando said:Alanbrooke, you are joking? So you think somewhere like South Korea is a model for us. What are their wage levels? What sort of welfare state can they support?
0 -
Anecdote: At 6 o'clock one day each week a message homes over the public address system in the Samsung HQ reminding staff to go home to see their families.SouthamObserver said:
Second highest suicide rate in the world. Very high levels of depression. The Koreans are not a happy bunch.Fernando said:Alanbrooke, you are joking? So you think somewhere like South Korea is a model for us. What are their wage levels? What sort of welfare state can they support?
0 -
Richard, a beneficial trading arrangement does not necessitate selling more to them than they sell to us. I image we have a favourable trade balance with Antartica.0
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Spot on. And it is what will destroy the Leavers who takeover after Brexit too and people find out it was not the EU that caused their problems. And that as a result their problems have not only not gone away but have got worse.Paul_Bedfordshire said:
This is what is doing for Remain.Alanbrooke said:
Possibly also because only one half of our society has done well and the other half has seen wage stagnation, houses beyond their means and the wholesale change of their communities.
0 -
Who will rid him of this troublesome priest?Scott_P said:@RobDotHutton: Farage describes Justin Welby as "this troublesome priest that we have in Canterbury".
0 -
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We have a house but we don't want keys cut for 27 other families to crash on our sofa at will!Fernando said:Imagery is important. Brexit isn't like a divorce with the option of finding or not finding another partner at leisure. Brexit is more like leaving your house. It might not be ideal but it keeps the rain off. Most of us would like to have some idea of where we are going to live before we move.
0 -
Agreed. It's the anti-globalisation thing.Paul_Bedfordshire said:
This is what is doing for Remain.Alanbrooke said:
Possibly also because only one half of our society has done well and the other half has seen wage stagnation, houses beyond their means and the wholesale change of their communities.0 -
Sounds like France.SouthamObserver said:
Second highest suicide rate in the world. Very high levels of depression. The Koreans are not a happy bunch.Fernando said:Alanbrooke, you are joking? So you think somewhere like South Korea is a model for us. What are their wage levels? What sort of welfare state can they support?
On the other hand the ILO say they have higher wages nominal than Germany which just goes to show all this Remain argument about protecting your wallets isn't going to make you happy :-)0 -
If it does so be it. The British People will have regained the power to elect people who can pass laws to actually do something about it.SouthamObserver said:
Spot on. And it is what will destroy the Leavers who takeover after Brexit too and people find out it was not the EU that caused their problems. And that as a result their problems have not only not gone away but have got worse.Paul_Bedfordshire said:
This is what is doing for Remain.Alanbrooke said:
Possibly also because only one half of our society has done well and the other half has seen wage stagnation, houses beyond their means and the wholesale change of their communities.0 -
Sofa0
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Having been there a few times and done business with Korean companies (yes, it's possible even though we're in the EU :-D), I'd say the two are indxtricably linked.RobD said:
Linked more to culture, then economics, surely?SouthamObserver said:
Second highest suicide rate in the world. Very high levels of depression. The Koreans are not a happy bunch.Fernando said:Alanbrooke, you are joking? So you think somewhere like South Korea is a model for us. What are their wage levels? What sort of welfare state can they support?
0 -
I thought thread headers were meant to be pro-Remain on here.
I am for Remain but if voting Leave will get rid of Cameron (Tory asset) and Corbyn (Labour liability) that is tempting0 -
10 undecided Tories still to go are, I think:MikeL said:
Guido's spreadsheet now has Con MPs as follows:Casino_Royale said:Looks like Michael Fabricant is about to defect from Leave:
Michael Fabricant @Mike_Fabricant
Following the lead of others, I have been re-assessing my position re #Europe.
I shall be making a statement at the weekend on @ConHome
Remain - 180
Leave - 140
Not declared - 10
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1vp6viBi5DA4avMgR2Y8lKrrAUqJp-0zL2LZB6iVD3uU/edit?pref=2&pli=1#gid=450656551
Tracey Crouch
Jackie Doyle-Price
James Heappey
Charlotte Leslie
Huw Merriman
Wendy Morton
Caroline Nokes
Jesse Norman
Mary Robinson
David Tredinnick
I think it'd be brave for either of the first to to declare for Remain given their seats and likely v.high Leave vote. They may never say.
James Heappey prob Remain. Charlotte Leslie should be for Leave (but might not)
Jesse Norman will never declare I think and spoil his ballot.
Don't know about the rest.0 -
They've all got it infamy.Scott_P said:0 -
They can do something about it now. Plenty, in fact. But thank-you for your honesty: impoverishing many ordinary people is a price worth paying for Brexit. That is cleary the Leave establishment view. They will, of course, be entirely unaffected.Paul_Bedfordshire said:
If it does so be it. The British People will have regained the power to elect people who can pass laws to actually do something about it.SouthamObserver said:
Spot on. And it is what will destroy the Leavers who takeover after Brexit too and people find out it was not the EU that caused their problems. And that as a result their problems have not only not gone away but have got worse.Paul_Bedfordshire said:
This is what is doing for Remain.Alanbrooke said:
Possibly also because only one half of our society has done well and the other half has seen wage stagnation, houses beyond their means and the wholesale change of their communities.
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Scott_P said:
You have to admire the creativity of the UK advertising talent.0 -
The dishonesty is emblazoned on the bus.Richard_Tyndall said:
So now you are just making stuff up then. Claiming that Leave have said they will spend the whole £350 million on the NHS when they have not said that anywhere. Utter dishonesty from you.CarlottaVance said:
Nowhere does it say 'only spend £100 million' on the NHS.Richard_Tyndall said:
No where does it say lets spend the whole amount on the NHSCarlottaVance said:
Not exactly clear on the BattleBus:Richard_Tyndall said:
Leave didn't say £350 million a week on the NHS.TheWhiteRabbit said:
They have a policy when it suits them, and not when it suits them.Indigo said:
It's not their job to have a policy. Its their job to campaign for an exit. What happens then is up to the elected government, taking into account what they can get through parliament, and if they want to be re-elected in GE2020.FF43 said:
Maybe that indicates the problem with a referendum. Ticking a box marked "leave" isn't a substitute for a policy. As you point out the Brexit politicians don't have a policy. The question is whether the public realise that.Indigo said:
Clearly time for our daily reminder that "BrExit" politicians (especially Farage) are not taking the country anywhere since this is not a General Election.FF43 said:Whether Remain staggers across the finishing line depends on how many people fed up with the EU realise that the Brexit politicians haven't a clue where they are taking Britain. Two weeks. It's going to be tight.
The existing government, possibly with a new leader, who May or may not be a Leaver, or even an face we expect, will be taking Britain forward if there is a BrExit, if they have failed to make sufficient plans for that then they are negligent and deserve any kicking they get at the next GE.
As I have said before, its Leave's job to procure a divorce, not suggest the next girlfriend, or comment on that relationship that persists with the ex.
Boris wants to raise the spectre of a £2bn cut in VAT on heating. Gove talks about £1bn more on science. Both want £350m/week more on the NHS. They ant to cut immigration to tens of thousands.
Those are all policies, none of which is supposedly their remit to suggest.
The fact that a post-exit government might choose to do those things (but not all of them!) is not the way it is framed.
We send £350 million a week to the EU
Lets fund our NHS Instead. Vote Leave.
The £350 is a lie, and the NHS linkage dishonest, given the subsequent caveat....
Its why you lost Wollaston.....0 -
Come on SO, that's unworthy of you. Have you read the IFS report? It's pro-remain, but it covers a broad range of scenarios. You might find it either interesting, or comforting, or both.SouthamObserver said:
They can do something about it now. Plenty, in fact. But thank-you for your honesty: impoverishing many ordinary people is a price worth paying for Brexit. That is cleary the Leave establishment view. They will, of course, be entirely unaffected.Paul_Bedfordshire said:
If it does so be it. The British People will have regained the power to elect people who can pass laws to actually do something about it.SouthamObserver said:
Spot on. And it is what will destroy the Leavers who takeover after Brexit too and people find out it was not the EU that caused their problems. And that as a result their problems have not only not gone away but have got worse.Paul_Bedfordshire said:
This is what is doing for Remain.Alanbrooke said:
Possibly also because only one half of our society has done well and the other half has seen wage stagnation, houses beyond their means and the wholesale change of their communities.0 -
On the subject of South Korea - I am wholehearted in my admiration for them; it's far from a perfect society, but any reservations about the imperfections of their society ought to be tempered by considering where they were 70 years ago. In two generations, they have, near enough, transformed themselves from Mozambique to Germany while living in the shadow of a psychopathic neighbour. In that context, I can forgive them a punishing work ethic and they odd otrher rough edge.0
