politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Some MPs are set to remind the electorate that referendums
Comments
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@ MikeK
Re: Alamo.
Well hopefully nowhere. I don't want any kind of antagonistic relationship and I don't see Boris as Davey Crockett (though he's got his own looky likey hat without even having a hat).
This is all a dreadful miscalculation by Dave/George and the Continentals. We don't have an unreasonable case in that rigidly adhering to freedom of movement a la 1957 might just need a bit of modification in 2016, given the facts on the ground. But our lot didn't have the balls to make our case forcefully, and their lot didn't take us seriously hence the almighty mess that we are in with even "moderates" (I like to think of myself as such - others can judge) being forced to make hard hard choices. The history of weasel words on Lisbon and the ludicrous threats since have hardened my resolve though, almost despite myself.
One irony is I'm in Paris on the 24th, where I shall enjoy all the delights of its sights and sounds and atmosphere, and shall doubtless converse with the locals in their own tongue. Millwall tendency I ain't, but I know which way I am voting.0 -
Mail reporting that Cameron has allegedly stood up on his hind legs next to Hattie and said Brexit would be like putting a bomb under the economy.
Oh dear. Another spectacular misjudgement by a leading remainer.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3627185/Brexit-like-putting-BOMB-economy-Cameron-delivers-latest-instalment-Project-Fear-teams-Harriet-Harman-EU-campaign-trail.html0 -
Mr. Urquhart, Alexander Armstrong's rather good at it.
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Wouldn't be as bad as a 50.1% win for Remain on a 90% turn out, which would mean the country is irrevocable split on the subject and it might be time to consider partitionOldKingCole said:What if the turnout is well under 50%, and the majority for Leave is tiny? My instinct is still to say; that was the result, live with it but as a convinced Remainer I’d be seriously p****d off.
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More like a bomb under Cameron's Premiership.Paul_Bedfordshire said:Mail reporting that Cameron has stood up on his hind legs next to Hattie and said Brexit would be like putting a bomb under the economy.
Oh desr.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3627185/Brexit-like-putting-BOMB-economy-Cameron-delivers-latest-instalment-Project-Fear-teams-Harriet-Harman-EU-campaign-trail.html0 -
Lone Star might be quite appropriate mind.Pulpstar said:
Isn't that New Hampshire ?HurstLlama said:I note Texas' motto is "live free or die". Bit extreme, I'd probably be a bit more British and be "live free and feel a bit under the weather economically for a bit".
Just superb.
Texas is "Friendship"0 -
The massive registration numbers are simply everyone who has moved home in the last year reregistering.SeanT said:These reports of high potential turnout and massive registration numbers chime with my sense. People are engaging with this, in a way they normally don't, even at a GE
I reckon we could see turnout over 70%. Maybe well over.
We presume that favours REMAIN but does it? How many are usually-apathetic WWCs voting LEAVE to kick the Tories AND stop immigration?
For a left wing WWC voter, a LEAVE vote is a no brainer0 -
Heath also proposed a negotiated settlement at the time.rcs1000 said:
But at the same time, I think you'll find a pretty high correlation between Labour Leavers and not supporting the Argentine conflict.PlatoSaid said:
Many thanks for your archaeology.TCPoliticalBetting said:
Here are a few.
"Outside Number 10, junior ministers Tim Raison and Ken Clarke as well as Stephen Dorrell and Chris Patten were also expressing alarm; Dorrell for one saying he would only support the Task Force as a negotiating measure - and advocating a withdrawal if the military Junta in Argentina refused to negotiate."
- See more at: http://www.cam.ac.uk/research/news/thatcher-archive-reveals-deep-divisions-on-the-road-to-falklands-war#sthash.SyqbvL41.dpuf
Personally, and I speak as an Outer, I think it's pretty disgusting to try and claim that all Remainers would just want to hand over the Fawkland Islands to the Argentinians.0 -
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/06/06/10/34F05B0800000578-3627147-image-a-10_1465206096412.jpgdr_spyn said:
More like a bomb under Cameron's Premiership.Paul_Bedfordshire said:Mail reporting that Cameron has stood up on his hind legs next to Hattie and said Brexit would be like putting a bomb under the economy.
Oh desr.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3627185/Brexit-like-putting-BOMB-economy-Cameron-delivers-latest-instalment-Project-Fear-teams-Harriet-Harman-EU-campaign-trail.html
The face Britain will present to the world on the 24th if Leave win. Depressing.
Trump would know how to lead the Remain campaign. Make it personal. Mock them relentlessly. "You want goofy Gove?"0 -
I think he's generally smashing and his other half - Miller. Real talents who never ever stray into tedious political wanking.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Urquhart, Alexander Armstrong's rather good at it.
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Doh!
@MichaelPDeacon: Gove has just cited "three key experts" who say Remain increases threat of terrorism. I thought "people had had enough of experts"?0 -
There is also the circa £100 million they paid to buy the company from Clarkson etc back in 2012.SeanT said:
Yep. They've Ratnered the brand in two weeks, and it will be extremely hard to repair, probably impossible.williamglenn said:
They'll probably end up with the same solution to Have I Got News For You after they sacked Angus Deayton in a similar cock up.SeanT said:
CatastrophicFrancisUrquhart said:Top Gear pulled in just 2.8 million viewers last night - down from 4.3million viewers last Sunday.
But remember folks FACT, it's a hit.
They have to save the show if they can. Somehow. It's worth too much. I reckon Evans will go at the end of the season
The show will never recover anyway and BBC has just handed the opening battle for control of the Anglosphere media world to Amazon.
I guess they could argue TG only had 2-3 seasons left in it anyway, but that's still £200m they're not going to see.
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SeanT said:
Yep. They've Ratnered the brand in two weeks, and it will be extremely hard to repair, probably impossible.williamglenn said:
They'll probably end up with the same solution to Have I Got News For You after they sacked Angus Deayton in a similar cock up.SeanT said:
CatastrophicFrancisUrquhart said:Top Gear pulled in just 2.8 million viewers last night - down from 4.3million viewers last Sunday.
But remember folks FACT, it's a hit.
They have to save the show if they can. Somehow. It's worth too much. I reckon Evans will go at the end of the season
The show will never recover anyway and BBC has just handed the opening battle for control of the Anglosphere media world to Amazon.
I guess they could argue TG only had 2-3 seasons left in it anyway, but that's still £200m they're not going to see.
The new set-up might sell better overseas than the previous presenters. That's why it has been Americanised and made less edgy.
However, it might only work short term if it works at all.0 -
An economist's view on his decision.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eureferendum/12163352/Britains-work-in-the-EU-is-done-our-next-chapter-awaits-us-outside.html0 -
Part of the reason why Evans was supposedly picked is his undeniable passion for cars and the extent of his knowledge.PlatoSaid said:
What I find so grimly amusing is that the BBC big wigs built the entire show around Evans - despite almost everyone saying NOOOOOOO!!! from the off.SeanT said:
CatastrophicFrancisUrquhart said:Top Gear pulled in just 2.8 million viewers last night - down from 4.3million viewers last Sunday.
But remember folks FACT, it's a hit.
They have to save the show if they can. Somehow. It's worth too much. I reckon Evans will go at the end of the season
We've had dozens of leaks, rumours and line-up changes = none of them complimentary about him. And now the show is live, the audience still has the same opinion and leaving in droves. He was the wrong choice and remains the wrong choice.
That was never ever what made Top Gear successful. Give any decent presenter a script and some research and they will be able to appear as knowledgeable as anyone else within the confines of the show.
What made Top Gear under Clarkson, Hammond and May successful was that they were 3 middle aged mates who bantered and messed around. The cars were a good addition, but ultimately superfluous.
I do wonder whether they will be able to catch lightning in a bottle on The Grand Tour.0 -
Sorry you what...which market doesn't old Top Gear sell well in?David_Evershed said:SeanT said:
Yep. They've Ratnered the brand in two weeks, and it will be extremely hard to repair, probably impossible.williamglenn said:
They'll probably end up with the same solution to Have I Got News For You after they sacked Angus Deayton in a similar cock up.SeanT said:
CatastrophicFrancisUrquhart said:Top Gear pulled in just 2.8 million viewers last night - down from 4.3million viewers last Sunday.
But remember folks FACT, it's a hit.
They have to save the show if they can. Somehow. It's worth too much. I reckon Evans will go at the end of the season
The show will never recover anyway and BBC has just handed the opening battle for control of the Anglosphere media world to Amazon.
I guess they could argue TG only had 2-3 seasons left in it anyway, but that's still £200m they're not going to see.
The new set-up might sell better overseas than the previous presenters. That's why it has been Americanised and made less edgy.
However, it might only work short term if it works at all.0 -
Its a pity they can't both lose........Scott_P said:I understand Alex Salmond will debate with Boris Johnson
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Really not seeing the problem here. Voters have a choice between leaving the EU and staying in. No one is saying that MPs will block leaving if that is the referendum outcome.
Whether we stay in the Common Market (or the EEA) is not on the ballot paper. That's for MPs to decide (or another referendum). I thought Leavers were fans of Parliament asserting its sovereignty?0 -
Leavers want Parliament to be sovereign.
Leavers explode when Parliamentarians indicate they may exercise sovereignty over matter not covered by referendum.
no contradiction at all, no siree.0 -
@MrHarryCole: Asked Boris to explain fall in £ after leave poll lead. "The pound will go where it will in the short term". Concession of short term pain
This why it would be politically possible for MPs to vote for an economic agreement.0 -
Why does 'Britain Elect' give a much bigger lead to Leave?SeanT said:CROSSOVER: for the first time, the poll of polls has LEAVE in the lead
http://whatukthinks.org/eu/opinion-polls/poll-of-polls/0 -
You have to love it. After weeks of bullshit about World War 3, Economic Armageddon and Refugee camps in Kent, all of which is perfectly acceptable, Leave dare to suggest that the freedom of movement within the EU, and especially the Schengen area is an aid to terrorism, a view supported by just about every serious security expert that has been asked, and apparently that is fear mongering and unfair.taffys said:
Like it or not, reasonable or not, Leave are going on the attack.Scott_P said:Project Fear...
@bbclaurak: Gove now claiming EU schengen (which we re not in) 'actively abets terrorism'0 -
Mr. Evershed, unlikely as I think old Top Gear had enormous overseas success (at one stage it had more viewers than Formula 1).0
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I reckoned 12 months ago that we'd see within 5 years new episodes of Top Gear on BBC2 hosted by Clarkson, May and Hammond, and I remain of that view.SeanT said:
Yep. They've Ratnered the brand in two weeks, and it will be extremely hard to repair, probably impossible.williamglenn said:
They'll probably end up with the same solution to Have I Got News For You after they sacked Angus Deayton in a similar cock up.SeanT said:
CatastrophicFrancisUrquhart said:Top Gear pulled in just 2.8 million viewers last night - down from 4.3million viewers last Sunday.
But remember folks FACT, it's a hit.
They have to save the show if they can. Somehow. It's worth too much. I reckon Evans will go at the end of the season
The show will never recover anyway and BBC has just handed the opening battle for control of the Anglosphere media world to Amazon.
I guess they could argue TG only had 2-3 seasons left in it anyway, but that's still £200m they're not going to see.
I don't expect the Amazon venture to be a massive success, if I'm honest, at least not enough to justify the exorbitant sums invested in it - and with an online UK audience there in the high hundreds of thousands probably, only a tiny proportion legitimately paying and watching worldwide via Amazon of the 300m+ who watched Top Gear, and the lack of visibility the 3 of them will have in the UK, coupled with the inevitable collapse of the Evans re-tread version, means I can see them "coming home" to a huge fanfare and popular acclaim once the dust has settled....0 -
It'll be a struggle squuezing those egos into one studioCarlottaVance said:
Its a pity they can't both lose........Scott_P said:I understand Alex Salmond will debate with Boris Johnson
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It feels like Andrew has been reading PB! That's the argument a lot of is have been making for a while, they need to federalise and we don't want to be in the super state.TCPoliticalBetting said:An economist's view on his decision.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eureferendum/12163352/Britains-work-in-the-EU-is-done-our-next-chapter-awaits-us-outside.html0 -
https://twitter.com/achrisevans/status/739756784395689985
LOL...re-positioning viewing...him on his own, re-positioning viewing...the way he is counting views old Top Gear gets 60 million views.0 -
I'm missing OGH and what he thinks we should now be betting on.
LEAVE with Turnout to be >65% on offer at 6/1 from Ladbrokes now looks to offer some kind of value.
Oh and yes, I admit, I have previously backed the opposite in both fields, i.e. REMAIN with Turnout to be <65% ..... that's how confused I've become!
DYOR (more than ever)0 -
They can always watch US Top Gear....ohhhhhhhh....it is like old Top Gear, minus absolutely everything that was good about it.SeanT said:
Nah. The reaction on Twitter in America was even WORSE than in the UK, when the new series aired on BBC AmericaDavid_Evershed said:SeanT said:
Yep. They've Ratnered the brand in two weeks, and it will be extremely hard to repair, probably impossible.williamglenn said:
They'll probably end up with the same solution to Have I Got News For You after they sacked Angus Deayton in a similar cock up.SeanT said:
CatastrophicFrancisUrquhart said:Top Gear pulled in just 2.8 million viewers last night - down from 4.3million viewers last Sunday.
But remember folks FACT, it's a hit.
They have to save the show if they can. Somehow. It's worth too much. I reckon Evans will go at the end of the season
The show will never recover anyway and BBC has just handed the opening battle for control of the Anglosphere media world to Amazon.
I guess they could argue TG only had 2-3 seasons left in it anyway, but that's still £200m they're not going to see.
The new set-up might sell better overseas than the previous presenters. That's why it has been Americanised and made less edgy.
However, it might only work short term if it works at all.
The American viewers didn't even like Matt Le Blanc.
Basically, people around the world liked Top Gear for the same reasons people in the UK liked it. Clarkson was funny, the chemistry was endearing, the mild middle aged edginess was refreshing, and the guys really knew about cars and engines and history and boys stuff.
All that's gone.0 -
Leavers want the electorate to be sovereign, do they not?Bromptonaut said:Leavers want Parliament to be sovereign.
Leavers explode when Parliamentarians indicate they may exercise sovereignty over matter not covered by referendum.
no contradiction at all, no siree.0 -
No doubt Priti Patel will push for a referendum on hanging at the first opportunity she gets.david_herdson said:
Leavers want the electorate to be sovereign, do they not?Bromptonaut said:Leavers want Parliament to be sovereign.
Leavers explode when Parliamentarians indicate they may exercise sovereignty over matter not covered by referendum.
no contradiction at all, no siree.0 -
We still live in a representative democracy.david_herdson said:Leavers want the electorate to be sovereign, do they not?
I have not heard Leave proposing we abolish Parliament. maybe that is next week...0 -
Maybe that applies to more of the staunch europhiles in the Conservative party at the time? As to Labour, Michael Foot was a patriot and a defender against military aggression.rcs1000 said:
But at the same time, I think you'll find a pretty high correlation between Labour Leavers and not supporting the Argentine conflict.PlatoSaid said:
Many thanks for your archaeology.TCPoliticalBetting said:
Here are a few.
"Outside Number 10, junior ministers Tim Raison and Ken Clarke as well as Stephen Dorrell and Chris Patten were also expressing alarm; Dorrell for one saying he would only support the Task Force as a negotiating measure - and advocating a withdrawal if the military Junta in Argentina refused to negotiate."
- See more at: http://www.cam.ac.uk/research/news/thatcher-archive-reveals-deep-divisions-on-the-road-to-falklands-war#sthash.SyqbvL41.dpuf
Personally, and I speak as an Outer, I think it's pretty disgusting to try and claim that all Remainers would just want to hand over the Fawkland Islands to the Argentinians.
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@rcs1000 re Melissa Kidd (of Redburn and Lombard I assume), I have read her outlook and there isn't a lot to disagree with, but as you know I'm not particularly bullish on the near to medium term outlook, I actually think Leave will force us to rebalance away from debt fueled consumption led growth to investment and production led growth, it's one of the reasons I'm in favour despite the short term uncertainty and headline GDP reduction that may follow.0
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Another failing Party Leader has a go the press.
https://twitter.com/politicshome/status/7397751150558986250 -
I'm very puzzled why so many appear thrilled that Top Gear might be failing? Posters are literally falling over each other to say how pathetic the show is. Is Chris Evans not liked or is it a longing to have Clarkson back?. I've no interst in cars (other than to film them for money) so what's the answer?????Gravitation said:
Part of the reason why Evans was supposedly picked is his undeniable passion for cars and the extent of his knowledge.PlatoSaid said:
What I find so grimly amusing is that the BBC big wigs built the entire show around Evans - despite almost everyone saying NOOOOOOO!!! from the off.SeanT said:
CatastrophicFrancisUrquhart said:Top Gear pulled in just 2.8 million viewers last night - down from 4.3million viewers last Sunday.
But remember folks FACT, it's a hit.
They have to save the show if they can. Somehow. It's worth too much. I reckon Evans will go at the end of the season
We've had dozens of leaks, rumours and line-up changes = none of them complimentary about him. And now the show is live, the audience still has the same opinion and leaving in droves. He was the wrong choice and remains the wrong choice.
That was never ever what made Top Gear successful. Give any decent presenter a script and some research and they will be able to appear as knowledgeable as anyone else within the confines of the show.
What made Top Gear under Clarkson, Hammond and May successful was that they were 3 middle aged mates who bantered and messed around. The cars were a good addition, but ultimately superfluous.
I do wonder whether they will be able to catch lightning in a bottle on The Grand Tour.0 -
You'd be able to hear Polly Toynbee screaming about how small a share of the electorate Leave's 'mandate' was, at a distance of 1000 miles.OldKingCole said:What if the turnout is well under 50%, and the majority for Leave is tiny? My instinct is still to say; that was the result, live with it but as a convinced Remainer I’d be seriously p****d off.
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Really? The Sick Man of Europe was successful and prosperous?Sean_F said:
The UK was a successful and prosperous democracy prior to joining the EU, and it will remain a prosperous and successful democracy if it leaves the EU.SPML said:
I agree with Roger (and I never thought I would say that) and williamglenn and a few others on this site. Leave winning would be the most depressing election result in my lifetime and the consequences for our country and the population at large don't bear thinking about. On the plus side, I am sure we can make a fortune printing "DON'T BLAME ME...I VOTED REMAIN" merchandise.Roger said:FPT. A first post by 'RealBritain' from the end of the last thread.
RealBritain Posts: 1
9:16AM
Roger said:
» show previous quotes
"It is a deplorable indightment of the British people as much as the leaers promoting it. Their whole campaign is based on xenophobia and that's how it will be seen around the world. A reputation which Britain has built up over centuries will be lost in a single day"
RealBritain
It is grim and depressing. If people vote for a campaign that is openly, unabashedly xenophobic, and which ranges from campaigning on "foreign criminals" to ther prospect of sex attacks on British women if we stay in the EU, this country will deserve absolutely everything it gets from the economic disaster of Brexit.0 -
Clarkson is famously a Remainer. Such people exude authority and reassurance. It's no wonder he's missed.Roger said:
I'm very puzzled why so many appear thrilled that Top Gear might be failing? Posters are literally falling over each other to say how pathetic the show is. Is Chris Evans not liked or is it a longing to have Clarkson back?. I've no interst in cars (other than to film them for money) so what's the answer?????Gravitation said:
Part of the reason why Evans was supposedly picked is his undeniable passion for cars and the extent of his knowledge.PlatoSaid said:
What I find so grimly amusing is that the BBC big wigs built the entire show around Evans - despite almost everyone saying NOOOOOOO!!! from the off.SeanT said:
CatastrophicFrancisUrquhart said:Top Gear pulled in just 2.8 million viewers last night - down from 4.3million viewers last Sunday.
But remember folks FACT, it's a hit.
They have to save the show if they can. Somehow. It's worth too much. I reckon Evans will go at the end of the season
We've had dozens of leaks, rumours and line-up changes = none of them complimentary about him. And now the show is live, the audience still has the same opinion and leaving in droves. He was the wrong choice and remains the wrong choice.
That was never ever what made Top Gear successful. Give any decent presenter a script and some research and they will be able to appear as knowledgeable as anyone else within the confines of the show.
What made Top Gear under Clarkson, Hammond and May successful was that they were 3 middle aged mates who bantered and messed around. The cars were a good addition, but ultimately superfluous.
I do wonder whether they will be able to catch lightning in a bottle on The Grand Tour.0 -
Mr. Urquhart, 9 million viewers?
That sounds optimistic.0 -
I am a leaver, and as long as we leave, after proper negotiation as per the Lisbon Treaty, I will be quite content for Parliament to decide what our future relationship will be. The key point being that if HMG negotiate something that the electorate do not like we can vote the buggers out.not_on_fire said:Really not seeing the problem here. Voters have a choice between leaving the EU and staying in. No one is saying that MPs will block leaving if that is the referendum outcome.
Whether we stay in the Common Market (or the EEA) is not on the ballot paper. That's for MPs to decide (or another referendum). I thought Leavers were fans of Parliament asserting its sovereignty?0 -
For the first time since 12/5 you mean.SeanT said:CROSSOVER: for the first time, the poll of polls has LEAVE in the lead
http://whatukthinks.org/eu/opinion-polls/poll-of-polls/
Bit of a cheap and cheerful methodology for creating a poll of polls counting the last 6 and not caring that the pollsters included vary considerably between data points. Remain's lead constricting to almost zero on a fairly regular monthly basis and then recovering which, to my eyes, suggests pollsters reporting at this stage of the month may be a more Leave friendly?0 -
This is a pathetic standard of posting from you.williamglenn said:
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/06/06/10/34F05B0800000578-3627147-image-a-10_1465206096412.jpgdr_spyn said:
More like a bomb under Cameron's Premiership.Paul_Bedfordshire said:Mail reporting that Cameron has stood up on his hind legs next to Hattie and said Brexit would be like putting a bomb under the economy.
Oh desr.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3627185/Brexit-like-putting-BOMB-economy-Cameron-delivers-latest-instalment-Project-Fear-teams-Harriet-Harman-EU-campaign-trail.html
The face Britain will present to the world on the 24th if Leave win. Depressing.
Trump would know how to lead the Remain campaign. Make it personal. Mock them relentlessly. "You want goofy Gove?"0 -
True, although the other traditionally apathetic group is youngsters who are pro-EU, so it'd depend on which group saw their turnout rise most (as well as the internal split).SeanT said:These reports of high potential turnout and massive registration numbers chime with my sense. People are engaging with this, in a way they normally don't, even at a GE
I reckon we could see turnout over 70%. Maybe well over.
We presume that favours REMAIN but does it? How many are usually-apathetic WWCs voting LEAVE to kick the Tories AND stop immigration?
For a left wing WWC voter, a LEAVE vote is a no brainer
My guess is that a 70% turnout would favour Remain; that it really will be tough to shift the WWC voters and they'd only start to haul things back once the turn things back once the turnout goes topside of 75%.0 -
I've not met a single person who like Evans. I'd rate that as the top reason for wishing it to fail as it gets him off the TV quicker.Roger said:
I'm very puzzled why so many appear thrilled that Top Gear might be failing? Posters are literally falling over each other to say how pathetic the show is. Is Chris Evans not liked or is it a longing to have Clarkson back?. I've no interst in cars (other than to film them for money) so what's the answer?????Gravitation said:
Part of the reason why Evans was supposedly picked is his undeniable passion for cars and the extent of his knowledge.PlatoSaid said:
What I find so grimly amusing is that the BBC big wigs built the entire show around Evans - despite almost everyone saying NOOOOOOO!!! from the off.SeanT said:
CatastrophicFrancisUrquhart said:Top Gear pulled in just 2.8 million viewers last night - down from 4.3million viewers last Sunday.
But remember folks FACT, it's a hit.
They have to save the show if they can. Somehow. It's worth too much. I reckon Evans will go at the end of the season
We've had dozens of leaks, rumours and line-up changes = none of them complimentary about him. And now the show is live, the audience still has the same opinion and leaving in droves. He was the wrong choice and remains the wrong choice.
That was never ever what made Top Gear successful. Give any decent presenter a script and some research and they will be able to appear as knowledgeable as anyone else within the confines of the show.
What made Top Gear under Clarkson, Hammond and May successful was that they were 3 middle aged mates who bantered and messed around. The cars were a good addition, but ultimately superfluous.
I do wonder whether they will be able to catch lightning in a bottle on The Grand Tour.0 -
Bravo.Stark_Dawning said:
Clarkson is famously a Remainer. Such people exude authority and reassurance. It's no wonder he's missed.Roger said:
I'm very puzzled why so many appear thrilled that Top Gear might be failing? Posters are literally falling over each other to say how pathetic the show is. Is Chris Evans not liked or is it a longing to have Clarkson back?. I've no interst in cars (other than to film them for money) so what's the answer?????Gravitation said:
Part of the reason why Evans was supposedly picked is his undeniable passion for cars and the extent of his knowledge.PlatoSaid said:
What I find so grimly amusing is that the BBC big wigs built the entire show around Evans - despite almost everyone saying NOOOOOOO!!! from the off.SeanT said:
CatastrophicFrancisUrquhart said:Top Gear pulled in just 2.8 million viewers last night - down from 4.3million viewers last Sunday.
But remember folks FACT, it's a hit.
They have to save the show if they can. Somehow. It's worth too much. I reckon Evans will go at the end of the season
We've had dozens of leaks, rumours and line-up changes = none of them complimentary about him. And now the show is live, the audience still has the same opinion and leaving in droves. He was the wrong choice and remains the wrong choice.
That was never ever what made Top Gear successful. Give any decent presenter a script and some research and they will be able to appear as knowledgeable as anyone else within the confines of the show.
What made Top Gear under Clarkson, Hammond and May successful was that they were 3 middle aged mates who bantered and messed around. The cars were a good addition, but ultimately superfluous.
I do wonder whether they will be able to catch lightning in a bottle on The Grand Tour.
If Remain could persuade Clarkson to do something high-profile for them it would take the wind out of the other side's sails.0 -
Indigo said:
Wouldn't be as bad as a 50.1% win for Remain on a 90% turn out, which would mean the country is irrevocable split on the subject and it might be time to consider partitionOldKingCole said:What if the turnout is well under 50%, and the majority for Leave is tiny? My instinct is still to say; that was the result, live with it but as a convinced Remainer I’d be seriously p****d off.
No, if they did they'd be proposing we abolish Parliament and full direct democracy.david_herdson said:
Leavers want the electorate to be sovereign, do they not?Bromptonaut said:Leavers want Parliament to be sovereign.
Leavers explode when Parliamentarians indicate they may exercise sovereignty over matter not covered by referendum.
no contradiction at all, no siree.
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FrancisUrquhart said:
Sorry you what...which market doesn't old Top Gear sell well in?David_Evershed said:SeanT said:
Yep. They've Ratnered the brand in two weeks, and it will be extremely hard to repair, probably impossible.williamglenn said:
They'll probably end up with the same solution to Have I Got News For You after they sacked Angus Deayton in a similar cock up.SeanT said:
CatastrophicFrancisUrquhart said:Top Gear pulled in just 2.8 million viewers last night - down from 4.3million viewers last Sunday.
But remember folks FACT, it's a hit.
They have to save the show if they can. Somehow. It's worth too much. I reckon Evans will go at the end of the season
The show will never recover anyway and BBC has just handed the opening battle for control of the Anglosphere media world to Amazon.
I guess they could argue TG only had 2-3 seasons left in it anyway, but that's still £200m they're not going to see.
The new set-up might sell better overseas than the previous presenters. That's why it has been Americanised and made less edgy.
However, it might only work short term if it works at all.
BBC only gets under £40m a year from oversaes sales of Top Gear. Seems low to me.0 -
He is doing what websites do when they claim ridiculous figures. Somebody clicked, they clicked through, count it, count it, ...but boss they only remained on the site for 5 seconds, count it....they have clicked refresh....count it again, count it again...but boss they left after another 5 seconds.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Urquhart, 9 million viewers?
That sounds optimistic.0 -
It's all over...
@politicshome: The endorsement everybody has been waiting for... Keith Chegwin backs Brexit https://t.co/Av3XaRKkcP https://t.co/ud6xzH7BSK0 -
After her car crash interview with Andrew Neil, I wouldn't cross the road to listen to what Natalie Bennett had to say.dr_spyn said:Another failing Party Leader has a go the press.
https://twitter.com/politicshome/status/7397751150558986250 -
Roger, who would you have had to front the REMAIN campaign? Knowing what we now know about voters regard for Cameron etc.Roger said:
I'm very puzzled why so many appear thrilled that Top Gear might be failing? Posters are literally falling over each other to say how pathetic the show is. Is Chris Evans not liked or is it a longing to have Clarkson back?. I've no interst in cars (other than to film them for money) so what's the answer?????Gravitation said:
Part of the reason why Evans was supposedly picked is his undeniable passion for cars and the extent of his knowledge.PlatoSaid said:
What I find so grimly amusing is that the BBC big wigs built the entire show around Evans - despite almost everyone saying NOOOOOOO!!! from the off.SeanT said:
CatastrophicFrancisUrquhart said:Top Gear pulled in just 2.8 million viewers last night - down from 4.3million viewers last Sunday.
But remember folks FACT, it's a hit.
They have to save the show if they can. Somehow. It's worth too much. I reckon Evans will go at the end of the season
We've had dozens of leaks, rumours and line-up changes = none of them complimentary about him. And now the show is live, the audience still has the same opinion and leaving in droves. He was the wrong choice and remains the wrong choice.
That was never ever what made Top Gear successful. Give any decent presenter a script and some research and they will be able to appear as knowledgeable as anyone else within the confines of the show.
What made Top Gear under Clarkson, Hammond and May successful was that they were 3 middle aged mates who bantered and messed around. The cars were a good addition, but ultimately superfluous.
I do wonder whether they will be able to catch lightning in a bottle on The Grand Tour.0 -
dr_spyn said:
Another failing Party Leader has a go the press.
https://twitter.com/politicshome/status/739775115055898625
Does she mean splits in the Green party of the Conservative party?
0 -
As a rule I find EUphiles much more inclined to treacherous views. Not to say they are all willing to sell out this nation for EU jobs like Kinnock, of course.TCPoliticalBetting said:
Maybe that applies to more of the staunch europhiles in the Conservative party at the time? As to Labour, Michael Foot was a patriot and a defender against military aggression.rcs1000 said:
But at the same time, I think you'll find a pretty high correlation between Labour Leavers and not supporting the Argentine conflict.PlatoSaid said:
Many thanks for your archaeology.TCPoliticalBetting said:
Here are a few.
"Outside Number 10, junior ministers Tim Raison and Ken Clarke as well as Stephen Dorrell and Chris Patten were also expressing alarm; Dorrell for one saying he would only support the Task Force as a negotiating measure - and advocating a withdrawal if the military Junta in Argentina refused to negotiate."
- See more at: http://www.cam.ac.uk/research/news/thatcher-archive-reveals-deep-divisions-on-the-road-to-falklands-war#sthash.SyqbvL41.dpuf
Personally, and I speak as an Outer, I think it's pretty disgusting to try and claim that all Remainers would just want to hand over the Fawkland Islands to the Argentinians.0 -
Viewed over anything other than the very short term, certainly. A few years of relatively poor economic performance won't turn a county into a basket case.not_on_fire said:
Really? The Sick Man of Europe was successful and prosperous?Sean_F said:
The UK was a successful and prosperous democracy prior to joining the EU, and it will remain a prosperous and successful democracy if it leaves the EU.SPML said:
I agree with Roger (and I never thought I would say that) and williamglenn and a few others on this site. Leave winning would be the most depressing election result in my lifetime and the consequences for our country and the population at large don't bear thinking about. On the plus side, I am sure we can make a fortune printing "DON'T BLAME ME...I VOTED REMAIN" merchandise.Roger said:FPT. A first post by 'RealBritain' from the end of the last thread.
RealBritain Posts: 1
9:16AM
Roger said:
» show previous quotes
"It is a deplorable indightment of the British people as much as the leaers promoting it. Their whole campaign is based on xenophobia and that's how it will be seen around the world. A reputation which Britain has built up over centuries will be lost in a single day"
RealBritain
It is grim and depressing. If people vote for a campaign that is openly, unabashedly xenophobic, and which ranges from campaigning on "foreign criminals" to ther prospect of sex attacks on British women if we stay in the EU, this country will deserve absolutely everything it gets from the economic disaster of Brexit.0 -
It more than that, but that is an aside...David_Evershed said:FrancisUrquhart said:
Sorry you what...which market doesn't old Top Gear sell well in?David_Evershed said:SeanT said:
Yep. They've Ratnered the brand in two weeks, and it will be extremely hard to repair, probably impossible.williamglenn said:
They'll probably end up with the same solution to Have I Got News For You after they sacked Angus Deayton in a similar cock up.SeanT said:
CatastrophicFrancisUrquhart said:Top Gear pulled in just 2.8 million viewers last night - down from 4.3million viewers last Sunday.
But remember folks FACT, it's a hit.
They have to save the show if they can. Somehow. It's worth too much. I reckon Evans will go at the end of the season
The show will never recover anyway and BBC has just handed the opening battle for control of the Anglosphere media world to Amazon.
I guess they could argue TG only had 2-3 seasons left in it anyway, but that's still £200m they're not going to see.
The new set-up might sell better overseas than the previous presenters. That's why it has been Americanised and made less edgy.
However, it might only work short term if it works at all.
BBC only gets under £40m a year from oversaes sales of Top Gear. Seems low to me.
The motoring show can lay claim to being the most popular factual television programme in the world – complete with a Guinness Book of World Records entry – watched by an audience of 350 million in 214 territories.
As a money spinner, Top Gear outperforms the clutch of mega-brands that the BBC considers to be its international crown jewels: Doctor Who, BBC Earth and Dancing with the Stars (Strictly Come Dancing in the UK).
http://www.theguardian.com/media/2015/mar/11/top-gear-bbc-jeremy-clarkson
If you think Evans and co with their reboot are going to top this you are bonkers.0 -
I'd cross the road to avoid her!peter_from_putney said:
After her car crash interview with Andrew Neil, I wouldn't cross the road to listen to what Natalie Bennett had to say.dr_spyn said:Another failing Party Leader has a go the press.
https://twitter.com/politicshome/status/7397751150558986250 -
Not really. Parliament is only sovereign on a temporary basis, subject to the judgement of the electorate. The two are entirely compatible.not_on_fire said:Indigo said:
Wouldn't be as bad as a 50.1% win for Remain on a 90% turn out, which would mean the country is irrevocable split on the subject and it might be time to consider partitionOldKingCole said:What if the turnout is well under 50%, and the majority for Leave is tiny? My instinct is still to say; that was the result, live with it but as a convinced Remainer I’d be seriously p****d off.
No, if they did they'd be proposing we abolish Parliament and full direct democracy.david_herdson said:
Leavers want the electorate to be sovereign, do they not?Bromptonaut said:Leavers want Parliament to be sovereign.
Leavers explode when Parliamentarians indicate they may exercise sovereignty over matter not covered by referendum.
no contradiction at all, no siree.0 -
But a lost empire, a bankrupt state, a union dominated economy, a civil war over part of the country all might. The UK was in a bad way.Sean_F said:
Viewed over anything other than the very short term, certainly. A few years of relatively poor economic performance won't turn a county into a basket case.not_on_fire said:
Really? The Sick Man of Europe was successful and prosperous?Sean_F said:
The UK was a successful and prosperous democracy prior to joining the EU, and it will remain a prosperous and successful democracy if it leaves the EU.SPML said:
I agree with Roger (and I never thought I would say that) and williamglenn and a few others on this site. Leave winning would be the most depressing election result in my lifetime and the consequences for our country and the population at large don't bear thinking about. On the plus side, I am sure we can make a fortune printing "DON'T BLAME ME...I VOTED REMAIN" merchandise.Roger said:FPT. A first post by 'RealBritain' from the end of the last thread.
RealBritain Posts: 1
9:16AM
Roger said:
» show previous quotes
"It is a deplorable indightment of the British people as much as the leaers promoting it. Their whole campaign is based on xenophobia and that's how it will be seen around the world. A reputation which Britain has built up over centuries will be lost in a single day"
RealBritain
It is grim and depressing. If people vote for a campaign that is openly, unabashedly xenophobic, and which ranges from campaigning on "foreign criminals" to ther prospect of sex attacks on British women if we stay in the EU, this country will deserve absolutely everything it gets from the economic disaster of Brexit.0 -
I suspect Clarkson's fan base would be disproportionately Leave, so he wouldn't want to alienate them. Poor old Trevor Kavanagh at The Sun was almost in tears when he learnt the truth.williamglenn said:
Bravo.Stark_Dawning said:
Clarkson is famously a Remainer. Such people exude authority and reassurance. It's no wonder he's missed.Roger said:
I'm very puzzled why so many appear thrilled that Top Gear might be failing? Posters are literally falling over each other to say how pathetic the show is. Is Chris Evans not liked or is it a longing to have Clarkson back?. I've no interst in cars (other than to film them for money) so what's the answer?????Gravitation said:
Part of the reason why Evans was supposedly picked is his undeniable passion for cars and the extent of his knowledge.PlatoSaid said:
What I find so grimly amusing is that the BBC big wigs built the entire show around Evans - despite almost everyone saying NOOOOOOO!!! from the off.SeanT said:
CatastrophicFrancisUrquhart said:Top Gear pulled in just 2.8 million viewers last night - down from 4.3million viewers last Sunday.
But remember folks FACT, it's a hit.
They have to save the show if they can. Somehow. It's worth too much. I reckon Evans will go at the end of the season
We've had dozens of leaks, rumours and line-up changes = none of them complimentary about him. And now the show is live, the audience still has the same opinion and leaving in droves. He was the wrong choice and remains the wrong choice.
That was never ever what made Top Gear successful. Give any decent presenter a script and some research and they will be able to appear as knowledgeable as anyone else within the confines of the show.
What made Top Gear under Clarkson, Hammond and May successful was that they were 3 middle aged mates who bantered and messed around. The cars were a good addition, but ultimately superfluous.
I do wonder whether they will be able to catch lightning in a bottle on The Grand Tour.
If Remain could persuade Clarkson to do something high-profile for them it would take the wind out of the other side's sails.0 -
Euro 2016 terror attacks 'thwarted', Ukraine claims
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jun/06/ukraine-detained-french-citizen-plotting-euro-2016-attacks0 -
Mr. Glenn, Serious question here, do you really think that the electorate would change their vote on the basis of what Jeremy Clarkson says?williamglenn said:
Bravo.
If Remain could persuade Clarkson to do something high-profile for them it would take the wind out of the other side's sails.0 -
Feels like we are going back in time somehow...
Glastonbury 2016 to introduce women-only venue
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2016/jun/06/glastonbury-2016-sisterhood-women-only-venue0 -
Is anybody else in the
Top Gear = I couldn;t give a toss, life's too short camp?0 -
A posting which ignores all the Leavers saying it is up to Parliament to decide and to accept the consequences if the public don't like their decision.Bromptonaut said:Leavers want Parliament to be sovereign.
Leavers explode when Parliamentarians indicate they may exercise sovereignty over matter not covered by referendum.
no contradiction at all, no siree.
The Remainders are trying to push this line of 'oh the horror' whilst most of the Leavers on here are saying what they have always said which is as long as we Leave Parliament can decide our relationship afterwards.
The electorate might be another matter of course.0 -
Can you think of any examples where you were wrong? Have you ever actually been wrong? If so, was it a very long time ago?SeanT said:
I had this argument with you when Clarkson was sacked (and long before Evans was appointed). You glibly said the BBC had a long history of successfully reinventing shows, and Clarkson wouldn't be missed, and they'd find a good replacement very easily.Roger said:
I'm very puzzled why so many appear thrilled that Top Gear might be failing? Posters are literally falling over each other to say how pathetic the show is. Is Chris Evans not liked or is it a longing to have Clarkson back?. I've no interst in cars (other than to film them for money) so what's the answer?????Gravitation said:
Part of the reason why Evans was supposedly picked is his undeniable passion for cars and the extent of his knowledge.PlatoSaid said:
What I find so grimly amusing is that the BBC big wigs built the entire show around Evans - despite almost everyone saying NOOOOOOO!!! from the off.SeanT said:
CatastrophicFrancisUrquhart said:Top Gear pulled in just 2.8 million viewers last night - down from 4.3million viewers last Sunday.
But remember folks FACT, it's a hit.
They have to save the show if they can. Somehow. It's worth too much. I reckon Evans will go at the end of the season
We've had dozens of leaks, rumours and line-up changes = none of them complimentary about him. And now the show is live, the audience still has the same opinion and leaving in droves. He was the wrong choice and remains the wrong choice.
That was never ever what made Top Gear successful. Give any decent presenter a script and some research and they will be able to appear as knowledgeable as anyone else within the confines of the show.
What made Top Gear under Clarkson, Hammond and May successful was that they were 3 middle aged mates who bantered and messed around. The cars were a good addition, but ultimately superfluous.
I do wonder whether they will be able to catch lightning in a bottle on The Grand Tour.
I pointed out that Clarkson was a unique comic talent, the show had a delicate chemistry not easily reworked, and that, unlike you, I thought the BBC would really struggle to maintain the success of the franchise.
Not for the first time, I was right, and you were wrong.0 -
Not directly but I think that what is driving the success of Leave is partly cultural. Someone like Clarkson personifies the sense that you don't have to be in favour of Brexit in order to assert a kind of bloody-minded, iconoclastic Britishness.HurstLlama said:
Mr. Glenn, Serious question here, do you really think that the electorate would change their vote on the basis of what Jeremy Clarkson says?williamglenn said:
Bravo.
If Remain could persuade Clarkson to do something high-profile for them it would take the wind out of the other side's sails.0 -
WW2, IMF, Maggie, Good Friday agreement. Nothing in that list has anything to do with the EU and our membership of it. I find it amazing to see Tories happy to go along with left wing revisionism about the economic success of the 80s, apparently nothing is safe from being sacrificed at the altar of our EU membership, not even Mrs Thatcher's legacy.williamglenn said:
But a lost empire, a bankrupt state, a union dominated economy, a civil war over part of the country all might. The UK was in a bad way.Sean_F said:
Viewed over anything other than the very short term, certainly. A few years of relatively poor economic performance won't turn a county into a basket case.not_on_fire said:
Really? The Sick Man of Europe was successful and prosperous?Sean_F said:
The UK was a successful and prosperous democracy prior to joining the EU, and it will remain a prosperous and successful democracy if it leaves the EU.SPML said:
I agree with Roger (and I never thought I would say that) and williamglenn and a few others on this site. Leave winning would be the most depressing election result in my lifetime and the consequences for our country and the population at large don't bear thinking about. On the plus side, I am sure we can make a fortune printing "DON'T BLAME ME...I VOTED REMAIN" merchandise.Roger said:FPT. A first post by 'RealBritain' from the end of the last thread.
RealBritain Posts: 1
9:16AM
Roger said:
» show previous quotes
"It is a deplorable indightment of the British people as much as the leaers promoting it. Their whole campaign is based on xenophobia and that's how it will be seen around the world. A reputation which Britain has built up over centuries will be lost in a single day"
RealBritain
It is grim and depressing. If people vote for a campaign that is openly, unabashedly xenophobic, and which ranges from campaigning on "foreign criminals" to ther prospect of sex attacks on British women if we stay in the EU, this country will deserve absolutely everything it gets from the economic disaster of Brexit.0 -
The Western world was passing through a rough patch. Inflation was high, in the wake of the oil shock, communism was gaining ground in Southern Africa and South East Asia, the Shah's regime was tottering, unruly trade unions were a common problem, and political terrorism was widespread. But none of that justifies talk of the sick man of Europe.williamglenn said:
But a lost empire, a bankrupt state, a union dominated economy, a civil war over part of the country all might. The UK was in a bad way.Sean_F said:
Viewed over anything other than the very short term, certainly. A few years of relatively poor economic performance won't turn a county into a basket case.not_on_fire said:
Really? The Sick Man of Europe was successful and prosperous?Sean_F said:
The UK was a successful and prosperous democracy prior to joining the EU, and it will remain a prosperous and successful democracy if it leaves the EU.SPML said:
I agree with Roger (and I never thought I would say that) and williamglenn and a few others on this site. Leave winning would be the most depressing election result in my lifetime and the consequences for our country and the population at large don't bear thinking about. On the plus side, I am sure we can make a fortune printing "DON'T BLAME ME...I VOTED REMAIN" merchandise.Roger said:FPT. A first post by 'RealBritain' from the end of the last thread.
RealBritain Posts: 1
9:16AM
Roger said:
» show previous quotes
"It is a deplorable indightment of the British people as much as the leaers promoting it. Their whole campaign is based on xenophobia and that's how it will be seen around the world. A reputation which Britain has built up over centuries will be lost in a single day"
RealBritain
It is grim and depressing. If people vote for a campaign that is openly, unabashedly xenophobic, and which ranges from campaigning on "foreign criminals" to ther prospect of sex attacks on British women if we stay in the EU, this country will deserve absolutely everything it gets from the economic disaster of Brexit.0 -
More info on foiled terrorist attack.
Frenchman 'planned attacks during Euro 2016' - Ukraine's SBU
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-364605690 -
Adrian Chiles Syndrome.MaxPB said:
I've not met a single person who like Evans. I'd rate that as the top reason for wishing it to fail as it gets him off the TV quicker.Roger said:
I'm very puzzled why so many appear thrilled that Top Gear might be failing? Posters are literally falling over each other to say how pathetic the show is. Is Chris Evans not liked or is it a longing to have Clarkson back?. I've no interst in cars (other than to film them for money) so what's the answer?????Gravitation said:
Part of the reason why Evans was supposedly picked is his undeniable passion for cars and the extent of his knowledge.PlatoSaid said:
What I find so grimly amusing is that the BBC big wigs built the entire show around Evans - despite almost everyone saying NOOOOOOO!!! from the off.SeanT said:
CatastrophicFrancisUrquhart said:Top Gear pulled in just 2.8 million viewers last night - down from 4.3million viewers last Sunday.
But remember folks FACT, it's a hit.
They have to save the show if they can. Somehow. It's worth too much. I reckon Evans will go at the end of the season
We've had dozens of leaks, rumours and line-up changes = none of them complimentary about him. And now the show is live, the audience still has the same opinion and leaving in droves. He was the wrong choice and remains the wrong choice.
That was never ever what made Top Gear successful. Give any decent presenter a script and some research and they will be able to appear as knowledgeable as anyone else within the confines of the show.
What made Top Gear under Clarkson, Hammond and May successful was that they were 3 middle aged mates who bantered and messed around. The cars were a good addition, but ultimately superfluous.
I do wonder whether they will be able to catch lightning in a bottle on The Grand Tour.0 -
Thank you for your answer and I now understand where you were coming from.williamglenn said:
Not directly but I think that what is driving the success of Leave is partly cultural. Someone like Clarkson personifies the sense that you don't have to be in favour of Brexit in order to assert a kind of bloody-minded, iconoclastic Britishness.HurstLlama said:
Mr. Glenn, Serious question here, do you really think that the electorate would change their vote on the basis of what Jeremy Clarkson says?williamglenn said:
Bravo.
If Remain could persuade Clarkson to do something high-profile for them it would take the wind out of the other side's sails.
Incidentally, whilst I think the British, on the whole, are bloody-minded and stubborn I do not think we are iconoclastic. In fact, quite the reverse - the Brits love their Icons. The most obvious modern example is HMtQ, what was it a million people turned out for the last jubilee?0 -
ICM 10/10 pre weighted: Leave 55 Remain 45.
Remain under 45 still on offer at 16/10 -
Sounds like Cheggers is very much in the Boris school of thought: Leave so we can renegotiate to something barely distinguishable from what we currently have. That's the worst sort of apostasy. Prepare to see Cheggers' head on a pike.Scott_P said:It's all over...
@politicshome: The endorsement everybody has been waiting for... Keith Chegwin backs Brexit https://t.co/Av3XaRKkcP https://t.co/ud6xzH7BSK0 -
I have "met" him twice. Once he acted like a total tw@t and was asked to leave the establishment. The other time he was very pleasant and interesting.MaxPB said:
I've not met a single person who like Evans. I'd rate that as the top reason for wishing it to fail as it gets him off the TV quicker.Roger said:
I'm very puzzled why so many appear thrilled that Top Gear might be failing? Posters are literally falling over each other to say how pathetic the show is. Is Chris Evans not liked or is it a longing to have Clarkson back?. I've no interst in cars (other than to film them for money) so what's the answer?????Gravitation said:
Part of the reason why Evans was supposedly picked is his undeniable passion for cars and the extent of his knowledge.PlatoSaid said:
What I find so grimly amusing is that the BBC big wigs built the entire show around Evans - despite almost everyone saying NOOOOOOO!!! from the off.SeanT said:
CatastrophicFrancisUrquhart said:Top Gear pulled in just 2.8 million viewers last night - down from 4.3million viewers last Sunday.
But remember folks FACT, it's a hit.
They have to save the show if they can. Somehow. It's worth too much. I reckon Evans will go at the end of the season
We've had dozens of leaks, rumours and line-up changes = none of them complimentary about him. And now the show is live, the audience still has the same opinion and leaving in droves. He was the wrong choice and remains the wrong choice.
That was never ever what made Top Gear successful. Give any decent presenter a script and some research and they will be able to appear as knowledgeable as anyone else within the confines of the show.
What made Top Gear under Clarkson, Hammond and May successful was that they were 3 middle aged mates who bantered and messed around. The cars were a good addition, but ultimately superfluous.
I do wonder whether they will be able to catch lightning in a bottle on The Grand Tour.
0 -
Let's suppose that a post-Leave Parliament negotiates single market plus free movement. Parliament has decided. Free movement of people in a new relationship with the EU. Call it Associate Membership.Richard_Tyndall said:
A posting which ignores all the Leavers saying it is up to Parliament to decide and to accept the consequences if the public don't like their decision.Bromptonaut said:Leavers want Parliament to be sovereign.
Leavers explode when Parliamentarians indicate they may exercise sovereignty over matter not covered by referendum.
no contradiction at all, no siree.
The Remainders are trying to push this line of 'oh the horror' whilst most of the Leavers on here are saying what they have always said which is as long as we Leave Parliament can decide our relationship afterwards.
The electorate might be another matter of course.
The public throws up its hands in horror...but...but...what about immigration? You lied. Right that's it..
And at the next GE? Whose manifesto do you think will include an end to immigration, the single market and the Associate Membership? Only UKIP.
So we are back where we started.0 -
I'm surprised that so many are surprised at Clarkson's strongly europhile views. He has often openly said that his favourite country is France and he is a avowed and outspoken lover of France and the French way of life. His views on the quality of German engineering will be well known, too.
I once read him devote several pages in the Sunday Times magazine making the case for France being the best country in the world, going up against the Francosceptic A.A. Gill.
I'm no fan of Clarkson's (in fact quite the opposite) but it's clear that his anti European comments have always been largely tongue in cheek.0 -
Having been out all morning, I just came across this thread on returning.
This is exactly what many of us have been saying all along on the leave side, mainly the Flexciteers who had already long ago realised that the only viable and agreeable route between Parliament, the Civil Service and the EU negotiating team would be to retain the EEA.
There is no prospective trade deal with the EU, the politics at this stage preclude it. The EU is inherently unstable at this point because they have tried unsuccessfully to mix politics and economics, using economic drivers to push the political settlement of a single 'European State'.
Until the EU reaches fiscal union, it will remain unstable, and therefore prone to national populations looking to exit if we get a good deal, or prove to do well. Our leaving then, has to be on terms that other are less able to accept, or appear to give the EU the upper hand.
Because we are an outward looking trading nation, the freedom that EEA/EFTA gives us to look to liberalising trade across third party nations without either EFTA or EU competence, does create opportunities for us to improve our position, and that of EFTA, until we can reach a point at where the EU has completed or shelved full union (without us holding it back) and EFTA is strong enough to negotiate a proper Pan EU free trade area.
This will take a decade or more, but the chance of any resolution to the EU crisis or Britain's issues with the EU, end if we vote to remain. The incompatibility of the EZ and Non EZ nations is not resolvable, even by the Fundamental Law route proposed by the Spinelli Group. The Danes are becoming aware of this fact too. Others will seek the opposite path - full integration.
0 -
Perhaps because people have failed to separate the Clarkson "tv character" from the real person.Jobabob said:I'm surprised that so many are surprised at Clarkson's strongly europhile views. He has often openly said that his favourite country is France and he is a avowed and outspoken lover of France and the French way of life. His views on the quality of German engineering will be well known, too.
I once read him devote several pages in the Sunday Times magazine making the case for France being the best country in the world, going up against the Francosceptic A.A. Gill.
I'm no fan of Clarkson's (in fact quite the opposite) but it's clear that his anti European comments have always been largely tongue in cheek.0 -
-
I dont know much gambling but am interested in interpreting data, how the bookies hedge their bets and how they make their money.
I notice that Leave is now down to 2.
http://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/eu-referendum/referendum-on-eu-membership-result
There is an indication of percentage of bets placed, but not the VALUE of those bets.
Seems to me, bookies may be happy to pay 2:1 if the volume of bets lost by the REMAIN covers the cost.
So does the 2:1 give a true picture? Considering the polls are showing a statistical tie, and LEAVE is not only gaining, but inching ahead (ignoring dynamic methodologies), I suspect 2:1 is very good value.
0 -
What a put down
LauraK
Gove - 'we re not at all irritated' by name calling and language of other side - 'we are all supporters of free speech'0 -
Yes. I've watched it a couple of times - seemed to be mildly amusing, reasonably competent low-brow entertainment. The relaunch was always doomed to fail however - too many people had set their face like flint against it, regardless of how good or bad it turned out to be.taffys said:Is anybody else in the
Top Gear = I couldn;t give a toss, life's too short camp?0 -
Times like this I like to mention it have 10 euro on UKIP most seats at 500/10
-
Given that Mrs Thatcher was vigorously campaigning for the UK's membership of the (then) EEC just 4 years before she came to power, you could argue that EU membership is part and parcel of her legacy.MaxPB said:
WW2, IMF, Maggie, Good Friday agreement. Nothing in that list has anything to do with the EU and our membership of it. I find it amazing to see Tories happy to go along with left wing revisionism about the economic success of the 80s, apparently nothing is safe from being sacrificed at the altar of our EU membership, not even Mrs Thatcher's legacy.williamglenn said:
But a lost empire, a bankrupt state, a union dominated economy, a civil war over part of the country all might. The UK was in a bad way.Sean_F said:
Viewed over anything other than the very short term, certainly. A few years of relatively poor economic performance won't turn a county into a basket case.not_on_fire said:
Really? The Sick Man of Europe was successful and prosperous?Sean_F said:
The UK was a successful and prosperous democracy prior to joining the EU, and it will remain a prosperous and successful democracy if it leaves the EU.SPML said:
I agree with Roger (and I never thought I would say that) and williamglenn and a few others on this site. Leave winning would be the most depressing election result in my lifetime and the consequences for our country and the population at large don't bear thinking about. On the plus side, I am sure we can make a fortune printing "DON'T BLAME ME...I VOTED REMAIN" merchandise.Roger said:FPT. A first post by 'RealBritain' from the end of the last thread.
RealBritain Posts: 1
9:16AM
Roger said:
» show previous quotes
"It is a deplorable indightment of the British people as much as the leaers promoting it. Their whole campaign is based on xenophobia and that's how it will be seen around the world. A reputation which Britain has built up over centuries will be lost in a single day"
RealBritain
It is grim and depressing. If people vote for a campaign that is openly, unabashedly xenophobic, and which ranges from campaigning on "foreign criminals" to ther prospect of sex attacks on British women if we stay in the EU, this country will deserve absolutely everything it gets from the economic disaster of Brexit.0 -
I dunno, Boris made it pretty clear on Marr yesterday that his view is that Parliament and UK Government should be able to decide numbers of migrants and not have open borders. Is he really going to go back on that as PM?TOPPING said:
Let's suppose that a post-Leave Parliament negotiates single market plus free movement. Parliament has decided. Free movement of people in a new relationship with the EU. Call it Associate Membership.Richard_Tyndall said:
A posting which ignores all the Leavers saying it is up to Parliament to decide and to accept the consequences if the public don't like their decision.Bromptonaut said:Leavers want Parliament to be sovereign.
Leavers explode when Parliamentarians indicate they may exercise sovereignty over matter not covered by referendum.
no contradiction at all, no siree.
The Remainders are trying to push this line of 'oh the horror' whilst most of the Leavers on here are saying what they have always said which is as long as we Leave Parliament can decide our relationship afterwards.
The electorate might be another matter of course.
The public throws up its hands in horror...but...but...what about immigration? You lied. Right that's it..
And at the next GE? Whose manifesto do you think will include an end to immigration, the single market and the Associate Membership? Only UKIP.
So we are back where we started.
More likely is that negotiations for access to single market without free movement drag on and on and bump into the next GE (especially if Boris goes early).0 -
Corbyn goes into hiding during cross party Remain event. Great leadership sends Dave's cousin Harriet in as nightwatchman.
I suppose ideological purity or conceit prevents him sharing a platform with an elected Tory.0 -
Precisely, parliament can try what it wants, if the electorate doesn't approve they get kicked out in 2020 and someone else get a go, that's the whole point for heavens sakes, as opposed to Mr Juncker(*) deciding and us just having to suck it up.david_herdson said:
Leavers want the electorate to be sovereign, do they not?Bromptonaut said:Leavers want Parliament to be sovereign.
Leavers explode when Parliamentarians indicate they may exercise sovereignty over matter not covered by referendum.
no contradiction at all, no siree.
(*) Yes I know other people are involved, we can't kick out any of them. The only people we can kick out, some of them, are the EU Parliamentarians, and they dont have the power to initiate legislation.0 -
Excellent post.TonyE said:Having been out all morning, I just came across this thread on returning.
This is exactly what many of us have been saying all along on the leave side, mainly the Flexciteers who had already long ago realised that the only viable and agreeable route between Parliament, the Civil Service and the EU negotiating team would be to retain the EEA.
There is no prospective trade deal with the EU, the politics at this stage preclude it. The EU is inherently unstable at this point because they have tried unsuccessfully to mix politics and economics, using economic drivers to push the political settlement of a single 'European State'.
Until the EU reaches fiscal union, it will remain unstable, and therefore prone to national populations looking to exit if we get a good deal, or prove to do well. Our leaving then, has to be on terms that other are less able to accept, or appear to give the EU the upper hand.
Because we are an outward looking trading nation, the freedom that EEA/EFTA gives us to look to liberalising trade across third party nations without either EFTA or EU competence, does create opportunities for us to improve our position, and that of EFTA, until we can reach a point at where the EU has completed or shelved full union (without us holding it back) and EFTA is strong enough to negotiate a proper Pan EU free trade area.
This will take a decade or more, but the chance of any resolution to the EU crisis or Britain's issues with the EU, end if we vote to remain. The incompatibility of the EZ and Non EZ nations is not resolvable, even by the Fundamental Law route proposed by the Spinelli Group. The Danes are becoming aware of this fact too. Others will seek the opposite path - full integration.0 -
Mr. F, it is a fact of life that memories of the bad things decay quicker than memories of the good things in life. However, there is no doubt that that in the early seventies the UK was in a bad way.Sean_F said:
WW2, IMF, Maggie, Good Friday agreement. Nothing in that list has anything to do with the EU and our membership of it. I find it amazing to see Tories happy to go along with left wing revisionism about the economic success of the 80s, apparently nothing is safe from being sacrificed at the altar of our EU membership, not even Mrs Thatcher's legacy.
However, we joined the EEC in 1973 and carried on being in a bad way for years afterwards (the winter of discontent was in 1978/79). I am not sure but I think that the Sick Man of Europe epithet was coined after we were in.
I would suggest that the UK's recovery of economy and, perhaps more importantly, self-respect happened in the 1980s under Thatcher and it had bugger all to do with the EEC, as it was then.0 -
Mr. Pig, welcome to pb.com.
I'm minded to agree, although it always feels horrid backing something at such short odds when others have twice as long...0 -
However, as EU normally doesn't figure in people's list of things to worry about, isn't it just as likely that whatever the result most public will shrug, go back to their lives and barely follow what happens next? Excepting the hard-core of Remainers and Leavers who will carry on rowing for months.Alistair said:Times like this I like to mention it have 10 euro on UKIP most seats at 500/1
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Welcome to PB, Mr Pig.TheBlackPig said:I dont know much gambling but am interested in interpreting data, how the bookies hedge their bets and how they make their money.
I notice that Leave is now down to 2.
http://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/eu-referendum/referendum-on-eu-membership-result
There is an indication of percentage of bets placed, but not the VALUE of those bets.
Seems to me, bookies may be happy to pay 2:1 if the volume of bets lost by the REMAIN covers the cost.
So does the 2:1 give a true picture? Considering the polls are showing a statistical tie, and LEAVE is not only gaining, but inching ahead (ignoring dynamic methodologies), I suspect 2:1 is very good value.0 -
Back to my example pls. A post-Leave parliament negotiates free movement. Electorate up in arms (not literally, although...).Indigo said:
Precisely, parliament can try what it wants, if the electorate doesn't approve they get kicked out in 2020 and someone else get a go, that's the whole point for heavens sakes, as opposed to Mr Juncker(*) deciding and us just having to suck it up.david_herdson said:
Leavers want the electorate to be sovereign, do they not?Bromptonaut said:Leavers want Parliament to be sovereign.
Leavers explode when Parliamentarians indicate they may exercise sovereignty over matter not covered by referendum.
no contradiction at all, no siree.
(*) Yes I know other people are involved, we can't kick out any of them. The only people we can kick out, some of them, are the EU Parliamentarians, and they dont have the power to initiate legislation.
Next GE? Which manifesto has no free movement? Only UKIP. Manifestos are drawn up from the same parties which will just have voted in free movement.
Does no one do logic on the Leave side?0 -
I've met him once. Separately being a "local" I was allowed to help spend the very large sum he put behind the bar at the Midas Touch when he sold Virgin Radio...FrancisUrquhart said:
I have "met" him twice. Once he acted like a total tw@t and was asked to leave the establishment. The other time he was very pleasant and interesting.MaxPB said:
I've not met a single person who like Evans. I'd rate that as the top reason for wishing it to fail as it gets him off the TV quicker.Roger said:
I'm very puzzled why so many appear thrilled that Top Gear might be failing? Posters are literally falling over each other to say how pathetic the show is. Is Chris Evans not liked or is it a longing to have Clarkson back?. I've no interst in cars (other than to film them for money) so what's the answer?????Gravitation said:
Part of the reason why Evans was supposedly picked is his undeniable passion for cars and the extent of his knowledge.PlatoSaid said:
What I find so grimly amusing is that the BBC big wigs built the entire show around Evans - despite almost everyone saying NOOOOOOO!!! from the off.SeanT said:
CatastrophicFrancisUrquhart said:Top Gear pulled in just 2.8 million viewers last night - down from 4.3million viewers last Sunday.
But remember folks FACT, it's a hit.
They have to save the show if they can. Somehow. It's worth too much. I reckon Evans will go at the end of the season
We've had dozens of leaks, rumours and line-up changes = none of them complimentary about him. And now the show is live, the audience still has the same opinion and leaving in droves. He was the wrong choice and remains the wrong choice.
That was never ever what made Top Gear successful. Give any decent presenter a script and some research and they will be able to appear as knowledgeable as anyone else within the confines of the show.
What made Top Gear under Clarkson, Hammond and May successful was that they were 3 middle aged mates who bantered and messed around. The cars were a good addition, but ultimately superfluous.
I do wonder whether they will be able to catch lightning in a bottle on The Grand Tour.0 -
No because we will be outside of the EU.TOPPING said:
Let's suppose that a post-Leave Parliament negotiates single market plus free movement. Parliament has decided. Free movement of people in a new relationship with the EU. Call it Associate Membership.Richard_Tyndall said:
A posting which ignores all the Leavers saying it is up to Parliament to decide and to accept the consequences if the public don't like their decision.Bromptonaut said:Leavers want Parliament to be sovereign.
Leavers explode when Parliamentarians indicate they may exercise sovereignty over matter not covered by referendum.
no contradiction at all, no siree.
The Remainders are trying to push this line of 'oh the horror' whilst most of the Leavers on here are saying what they have always said which is as long as we Leave Parliament can decide our relationship afterwards.
The electorate might be another matter of course.
The public throws up its hands in horror...but...but...what about immigration? You lied. Right that's it..
And at the next GE? Whose manifesto do you think will include an end to immigration, the single market and the Associate Membership? Only UKIP.
So we are back where we started.
Invoking Article 50 is a given. Once that has happened the UK will be leaving the EU. We may well decide to stay in the EEA which has the practical result of being in the single market and having freedom of movement but we will be out of the EU and no longer subject to the vast majority of legislation they impose.
That will hive off a large number of Brexiters who will now be happy with the situation. Assuming that the Leave vote was close there will be a clear majority for the new arrangement.
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If that's awkward you can always write them a letter thanking them for the gift...kle4 said:
So you'd advise Tommy asking granny to write a note explaining the money before she croaked?RodCrosby said:
Well you are, in the eyes of HMRC. And they have the force of law behind them.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Crosby, thanks for that piece of advice, although that seems to have a feel of guilty until proven innocent about it.
But it's a pretty extreme scenario, really only something like.
Grannie: "Tommy, I've been sticking £50 notes under the mattress for the last 30 years. There's quite a lot of them now, and I'd like to give them to you."
After handing over the dosh, Grannie dies. How can Tommy prove he didn't earn the money doing some undeclared work? He can't, and HMRC (assuming they found out about the money) would be entitled to tax it and also penalize Tommy.
And now back to time away from PB. I thought I'd be more argumentative through lack of arguing online, but not so. Strange.
(I think that there's a threshold of £3,000 from memory below which it is deminimis anyway. It's not something I've ever really focused on though)0 -
Clarkson is part of Cameron's ghastly Chipping Norton set. He's probably expecting to receive a knighthood from his dodgy mate.williamglenn said:
Not directly but I think that what is driving the success of Leave is partly cultural. Someone like Clarkson personifies the sense that you don't have to be in favour of Brexit in order to assert a kind of bloody-minded, iconoclastic Britishness.HurstLlama said:
Mr. Glenn, Serious question here, do you really think that the electorate would change their vote on the basis of what Jeremy Clarkson says?williamglenn said:
Bravo.
If Remain could persuade Clarkson to do something high-profile for them it would take the wind out of the other side's sails.0
