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Mr. D, I did say that Farage should be locked in a shed
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I also (think) I remember your view on referenda!Morris_Dancer said:Mr. D, I did say that Farage should be locked in a shed
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CAN PEOPLE STOP ADDING BLOCKQUOTES TO THEIR POSTS. IT IS CAUSING NESTING/QUOTING ISSUES.0
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I did try...PBModerator said:CAN PEOPLE STOP ADDING BLOCKQUOTES TO THEIR POSTS. IT IS CAUSING NESTING/QUOTING ISSUES.
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He looks a very doddery 69. And frail.MarqueeMark said:
Not sure Bill's health is up to taking a big job. After his heart surgery he has looked a shadow of his former self.Plato_Says said:Umm, Hillary's giving Bill a big job “I’m going to put [him] in charge of revitalising the economy”
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/world/it-s-the-economy-stupid-bill-clinton-returns-to-the-fray-2p26vrkpj0 -
By removing the / in the second last blockquote - the issue is fixed.PBModerator said:CAN PEOPLE STOP ADDING BLOCKQUOTES TO THEIR POSTS. IT IS CAUSING NESTING/QUOTING ISSUES.
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He makes Bernie Sanders look young.MarqueeMark said:
Not sure Bill's health is up to taking a big job. After his heart surgery he has looked a shadow of his former self.Plato_Says said:Umm, Hillary's giving Bill a big job “I’m going to put [him] in charge of revitalising the economy”
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/world/it-s-the-economy-stupid-bill-clinton-returns-to-the-fray-2p26vrkpj0 -
His over emphasis on this outcome suggests that it is his central expectation.TheWhiteRabbit said:
Farage says he will push for second referendum if Remain wins narrowly
In an interview with the Daily Mirror Nigel Farage, the Ukip leader, has said that if Remain win the EU referendum narrowly, he will push for a second referendum. He told the paper:
In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way. If the remain campaign win two-thirds to one-third that ends it.
Given the political trajectory the EU is on, and its economic dysfunctionality, there is no way this issue will go away.0 -
I suspect if someone quotes your post in which you did that, it would bugger up their response, although I could be mistaken.Plato_Says said:
By removing the / in the second last blockquote - the issue is fixed.PBModerator said:CAN PEOPLE STOP ADDING BLOCKQUOTES TO THEIR POSTS. IT IS CAUSING NESTING/QUOTING ISSUES.
Edit - Nope, I was mistaken. Although it does make the original quote look a bit awkward.0 -
Trump is brimming with life and robust vigour in comparison - he's 69 too.MonikerDiCanio said:
He makes Bernie Sanders look young.MarqueeMark said:
Not sure Bill's health is up to taking a big job. After his heart surgery he has looked a shadow of his former self.Plato_Says said:Umm, Hillary's giving Bill a big job “I’m going to put [him] in charge of revitalising the economy”
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/world/it-s-the-economy-stupid-bill-clinton-returns-to-the-fray-2p26vrkpj0 -
Mr. D, which particular view are you remembering?0
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Most PBers don't have the time or the energy to do that.Plato_Says said:
By removing the / in the second last blockquote - the issue is fixed.PBModerator said:CAN PEOPLE STOP ADDING BLOCKQUOTES TO THEIR POSTS. IT IS CAUSING NESTING/QUOTING ISSUES.
So no more unnecessary blockquotes.0 -
Can I just say how outrageous it is that having been told to make cuts the BBC is making cuts? How dare they. It just proves their bias.0
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They sold themselves as defenders of the established institutions against Communism. They were bankrolled by big business and supported by the Catholic Church.Charles said:
Indeed it is silly - I was reacting to @ydoethur's casual placing of Hitler and Mussolini on the right. As a history teacher he should know that things are more complicated than thatSouthamObserver said:
I am afraid that privatisation is not a left wing policy. It is a right wing one.
Frankly, though, I think it is rather silly to try to place the Nazis and Mussolini on the traditional right/left spectrum.
The left, however, has to take Stalin. On a smaller, less brutal - but still profoundly unpleasant and murderous - scale, Franco and the other southern European dictators of the mid-twentieth century were clearly on the right, as was the Apartheid regime in South Africa.
On privatisation - it's right wing if it's driven by a belief that the organisations are better run in private hands. If it's just a means to enrich your allies I don't think it is a right/left thing - it's just a mechanism at that point.
They assimilated the Freikorps, who were assembled to fight against Communism and crush the trade union/Spartacist movement.
They included among their members many former senior army officers, including Goering, who joined because they disliked Jews and Communists.
They were obsessed with the amassing of personal wealth and the nihilist ideas of Nietsche and Darwinism.
That sounds right wing to me.
Try Evans, The Coming of the Third Reich, for more information.0 -
Oh, I thought you generally opposed to them, given we live in a representative democracy. May be getting you confused with someone else (if so, my profound apologies)Morris_Dancer said:Mr. D, which particular view are you remembering?
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That would be an ideal scenario.rottenborough said:
So he won't be complaining when Leave win 52-48 and Cameron renegotiates with EU and calls a 2nd referendum next year?Plato_Says said:
It's all every SIndy in tactics.TheWhiteRabbit said:
Farage says he will push for second referendum if Remain wins narrowly
In an interview with the Daily Mirror Nigel Farage, the Ukip leader, has said that if Remain win the EU referendum narrowly, he will push for a second referendum. He told the paper:
In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way. If the remain campaign win two-thirds to one-third that ends it.
His over emphasis on this outcome suggests that it is his central expectation.
Thought not.
A proper renegotiation followed by a serious choice between LEAVE and the best deal we could get to REMAIN.0 -
Dropping any of the popular television programmes that had aroused Mr Whittingdale's enmity would do that far more easily. The Voice, for instance, must surely have far more viewers than the recipe web site.RobD said:
Yes, but I suspect it was chosen by the BBC as a cut that would garner the most protest.DecrepitJohnL said:
Surely this is exactly what government policy is aimed at. Stopping the BBC crowding out putative private sector food websites.RobD said:
Sounds more and more like the BBC did this to elicit exactly this kind of response. I've not seen any evidence that they government forced them to cut the recipe website specifically (and they'd have been fools to have done so).rottenborough said:
Er, why does it cost anything to keep 11,000 EXISTING recipes online? A few quid for the server.FrancisUrquhart said:
Just classic BBC...look look look over over there we are cutting something, because of nasty government, booo booo...MikeK said:Are the BBC going to reduce expenditure by.......
1. Cutting those over-large salaries that the top people get? NO!
2. Cutting those over-large salaries that middle management get? NO!
3. Cutting those great expensive studios that are seldom used? NO!
4. Cutting 15,000 recipes from a website to save £15M? YES! YES! YES!
5. Getting the supine Cameroon government to increase the the price of
it's License fee for 11 years? YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36308976
You only have to look at all the nonsense over BBC3.
Reminds me of all the Labour councils who in reaction to government spending cuts wouldn't cut diversity coordinators and other non-jobs, no it was close all public bogs...
John Whittingdale is straying into Osborne's omnishambles territory. He wants the BBC hamstrung but has not considered its impact on the public or his own supporters.
And I now see the BBC even quotes the Chancellor: Last year, Chancellor George Osborne said the BBC website was becoming "a bit more imperial in its ambitions".
"If you've got a website that's got features and cooking recipes - effectively the BBC website becomes the national newspaper as well as the national broadcaster.
"There are those sorts of issues we need to look at very carefully," he said.
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But, it does recognise the asymmetric nature of this argument. Like the SNP, Leave have to get lucky once. Their opponents have to get lucky all the time.Plato_Says said:
It's all every SIndy in tactics.TheWhiteRabbit said:
Farage says he will push for second referendum if Remain wins narrowly
In an interview with the Daily Mirror Nigel Farage, the Ukip leader, has said that if Remain win the EU referendum narrowly, he will push for a second referendum. He told the paper:
In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way. If the remain campaign win two-thirds to one-third that ends it.
His over emphasis on this outcome suggests that it is his central expectation.0 -
What is the definition of necessary?PBModerator said:
Most PBers don't have the time or the energy to do that.Plato_Says said:
By removing the / in the second last blockquote - the issue is fixed.PBModerator said:CAN PEOPLE STOP ADDING BLOCKQUOTES TO THEIR POSTS. IT IS CAUSING NESTING/QUOTING ISSUES.
So no more unnecessary blockquotes.0 -
The Voice has already gone to ITV, besides it isn't a BBC original, they paid a crap tonne of money to buy it in from the states. As for viewers, I wouldn't be so sure, the Voice does appalling badly.DecrepitJohnL said:
Dropping any of the popular television programmes that had aroused Mr Whittingdale's enmity would do that far more easily. The Voice, for instance, must surely have far more viewers than the recipe web site.RobD said:
Yes, but I suspect it was chosen by the BBC as a cut that would garner the most protest.DecrepitJohnL said:
Surely this is exactly what government policy is aimed at. Stopping the BBC crowding out putative private sector food websites.RobD said:
Sounds more and more like the BBC did this to elicit exactly this kind of response. I've not seen any evidence that they government forced them to cut the recipe website specifically (and they'd have been fools to have done so).rottenborough said:
Er, why does it cost anything to keep 11,000 EXISTING recipes online? A few quid for the server.FrancisUrquhart said:
Just classic BBC...look look look over over there we are cutting something, because of nasty government, booo booo...MikeK said:Are the BBC going to reduce expenditure by.......
1. Cutting those over-large salaries that the top people get? NO!
2. Cutting those over-large salaries that middle management get? NO!
3. Cutting those great expensive studios that are seldom used? NO!
4. Cutting 15,000 recipes from a website to save £15M? YES! YES! YES!
5. Getting the supine Cameroon government to increase the the price of
it's License fee for 11 years? YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36308976
You only have to look at all the nonsense over BBC3.
Reminds me of all the Labour councils who in reaction to government spending cuts wouldn't cut diversity coordinators and other non-jobs, no it was close all public bogs...
John Whittingdale is straying into Osborne's omnishambles territory. He wants the BBC hamstrung but has not considered its impact on the public or his own supporters.
And I now see the BBC even quotes the Chancellor: Last year, Chancellor George Osborne said the BBC website was becoming "a bit more imperial in its ambitions".
"If you've got a website that's got features and cooking recipes - effectively the BBC website becomes the national newspaper as well as the national broadcaster.
"There are those sorts of issues we need to look at very carefully," he said.
But other being wrong on every aspect, not a bad effort....0 -
Mr. D, hmm. I'm reasonably sure I've been in favour of them for issues like Scottish independence or leaving the EU (or, if it were to happen, rejoining it). You may be thinking of Mr. W.0
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Use quote marks, that's what I do.Plato_Says said:
What is the definition of necessary?PBModerator said:
Most PBers don't have the time or the energy to do that.Plato_Says said:
By removing the / in the second last blockquote - the issue is fixed.PBModerator said:CAN PEOPLE STOP ADDING BLOCKQUOTES TO THEIR POSTS. IT IS CAUSING NESTING/QUOTING ISSUES.
So no more unnecessary blockquotes.0 -
Just so happened that the cut they chose was the one which elicited a very strong reaction, rather than cutting pay, or crap output etc.SouthamObserver said:Can I just say how outrageous it is that having been told to make cuts the BBC is making cuts? How dare they. It just proves their bias.
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How about we go back to Avery's yellow boxes, although I can't for the life of me remember how it is done.Plato_Says said:
What is the definition of necessary?PBModerator said:
Most PBers don't have the time or the energy to do that.Plato_Says said:
By removing the / in the second last blockquote - the issue is fixed.PBModerator said:CAN PEOPLE STOP ADDING BLOCKQUOTES TO THEIR POSTS. IT IS CAUSING NESTING/QUOTING ISSUES.
So no more unnecessary blockquotes.0 -
Additionally, there is the case of Cameron's deal being completely ignored by the EU. I can imagine when our opt-out is ignored the Brexit drum will begin beating again.Sean_F said:
But, it does recognise the asymmetric nature of this argument. Like the SNP, Leave have to get lucky once. Their opponents have to get lucky all the time.Plato_Says said:
It's all every SIndy in tactics.TheWhiteRabbit said:
Farage says he will push for second referendum if Remain wins narrowly
In an interview with the Daily Mirror Nigel Farage, the Ukip leader, has said that if Remain win the EU referendum narrowly, he will push for a second referendum. He told the paper:
In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way. If the remain campaign win two-thirds to one-third that ends it.
His over emphasis on this outcome suggests that it is his central expectation.0 -
I find with Firefox that just clicking the edit button and saving without actually editing anything gets rid of the nesting..PBModerator said:CAN PEOPLE STOP ADDING BLOCKQUOTES TO THEIR POSTS. IT IS CAUSING NESTING/QUOTING ISSUES.
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Ah, sorry about that misrepresentation!Morris_Dancer said:Mr. D, hmm. I'm reasonably sure I've been in favour of them for issues like Scottish independence or leaving the EU (or, if it were to happen, rejoining it). You may be thinking of Mr. W.
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Absolutely - and it will be a war of attrition if Remain wins, perhaps more so because people are more aware/positions taken - and it's not such a single party [SNP] issue.Sean_F said:
But, it does recognise the asymmetric nature of this argument. Like the SNP, Leave have to get lucky once. Their opponents have to get lucky all the time.Plato_Says said:
It's all every SIndy in tactics.TheWhiteRabbit said:
Farage says he will push for second referendum if Remain wins narrowly
In an interview with the Daily Mirror Nigel Farage, the Ukip leader, has said that if Remain win the EU referendum narrowly, he will push for a second referendum. He told the paper:
In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way. If the remain campaign win two-thirds to one-third that ends it.
His over emphasis on this outcome suggests that it is his central expectation.0 -
I don't see the issue personally, there is a whole internet full of recipes.SouthamObserver said:Can I just say how outrageous it is that having been told to make cuts the BBC is making cuts? How dare they. It just proves their bias.
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Why I felt the need isn't particularly interesting (and I slightly resent the implication) - it was because @ydoethur referred to it as a right wing ideology, which it isn't.Jonathan said:
Don't confuse your personal opinions with "academic verities". The interesting question is why you feel the need to mount such arguments.Charles said:
Why are the "far right" far right? On what spectrum?Jonathan said:Interesting to see Charles express emerging right wing political correctness and revisionist history.
Whist his desire to repaint the right as motherhood and apple pie is understandable, I fear that his argument that the far right aren't right wing is a bridge too far.
They were left wing economically. They wrapped themselves in the symbols of nationalism (arguably without being truly patriotic). They were anti-establishment and iconoclastic.
As SO said, right/left isn't really an appropriate measure for something like this. But it's a convenient smear, so the mass media doesn't actually think too hard about the academic verities.
On "academic verities" my personal opinions may well be wrong - I am sure that smarter people that me will argue about these things for a long time. I was just making the point that the left is very happy to equate fascism = right wing for their political advantage [e.g. the anti fascist league seems to exclusively square off against the BNP/EL etc but ignores equally nasty organisations that are perceived as not being "on the right"], while the mass media doesn't think too hard about whether that is correct or not.0 -
Is this Budapest '56, the Prague Spring of '68 or Berlin '89 ? Hopefully, the last.Sean_F said:
But, it does recognise the asymmetric nature of this argument. Like the SNP, Leave have to get lucky once. Their opponents have to get lucky all the time.Plato_Says said:
It's all every SIndy in tactics.TheWhiteRabbit said:
Farage says he will push for second referendum if Remain wins narrowly
In an interview with the Daily Mirror Nigel Farage, the Ukip leader, has said that if Remain win the EU referendum narrowly, he will push for a second referendum. He told the paper:
In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way. If the remain campaign win two-thirds to one-third that ends it.
His over emphasis on this outcome suggests that it is his central expectation.0 -
0
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Yes of course. Because they couldn't find anywhere else to cut....hmm like spending a load of money on a new logo for a channel that was supposed to be closing, took 2 years extra to close than simply flicking the switch and then rebranded it online so in fact not closing it at all.SouthamObserver said:Can I just say how outrageous it is that having been told to make cuts the BBC is making cuts? How dare they. It just proves their bias.
And in terms of savings, wiping some recipes off the net doesn't save any money. In fact it probably costs money to action that, especially with all the red tape that is the BBC.
As I said down thread it is like the closing all the public bogs move. It is just designed to get publicity, nothing more. If they were serious about saving money or new remits, there are is far more major reforms, but instead it is get the MumsNet crowd pissed move instead.0 -
I think that'd be a legitimate reason to campaign for another referendum.MaxPB said:
Additionally, there is the case of Cameron's deal being completely ignored by the EU. I can imagine when our opt-out is ignored the Brexit drum will begin beating again.Sean_F said:
But, it does recognise the asymmetric nature of this argument. Like the SNP, Leave have to get lucky once. Their opponents have to get lucky all the time.Plato_Says said:
It's all every SIndy in tactics.TheWhiteRabbit said:
Farage says he will push for second referendum if Remain wins narrowly
In an interview with the Daily Mirror Nigel Farage, the Ukip leader, has said that if Remain win the EU referendum narrowly, he will push for a second referendum. He told the paper:
In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way. If the remain campaign win two-thirds to one-third that ends it.
His over emphasis on this outcome suggests that it is his central expectation.0 -
Uneccesary = Blockquotes you add your selfPlato_Says said:
What is the definition of necessary?PBModerator said:
Most PBers don't have the time or the energy to do that.Plato_Says said:
By removing the / in the second last blockquote - the issue is fixed.PBModerator said:CAN PEOPLE STOP ADDING BLOCKQUOTES TO THEIR POSTS. IT IS CAUSING NESTING/QUOTING ISSUES.
So no more unnecessary blockquotes.0 -
The wrong kind of cuts?RobD said:
Just so happened that the cut they chose was the one which elicited a very strong reaction, rather than cutting pay, or crap output etc.SouthamObserver said:Can I just say how outrageous it is that having been told to make cuts the BBC is making cuts? How dare they. It just proves their bias.
Presumably, the BBC has decided that offering recipes does not fit the remit the Culture Secretary has stated he believes it should fulfil.
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Mr. D, np, it's easy enough to misremember that sort of thing.0
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More to the point, if they have the database already, why does it cost £15m to host them on a website? I'd do it for £12m...RobD said:
Is the BBC on the hook to reduce expenditure? I thought the license fee was going up with inflation? And really, why has the BBC got a database of 11k recipes in the first place.MikeK said:Are the BBC going to reduce expenditure by.......
1. Cutting those over-large salaries that the top people get? NO!
2. Cutting those over-large salaries that middle management get? NO!
3. Cutting those great expensive studios that are seldom used? NO!
4. Cutting 15,000 recipes from a website to save £15M? YES! YES! YES!
5. Getting the supine Cameroon government to increase the the price of
it's License fee for 11 years? YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-363089760 -
It's one of my Brexit favourites.runnymede said:Lieutenant Columbo comes out for Brexit
ttps://twitter.com/Mike_Fabricant/status/7315646264549539840 -
You can surely see the game they are playing though. Fair enough to not maintain it, but to delete entirely just smacks of a toys and pram situation.SouthamObserver said:
The wrong kind of cuts?RobD said:
Just so happened that the cut they chose was the one which elicited a very strong reaction, rather than cutting pay, or crap output etc.SouthamObserver said:Can I just say how outrageous it is that having been told to make cuts the BBC is making cuts? How dare they. It just proves their bias.
Presumably, the BBC has decided that offering recipes does not fit the remit the Culture Secretary has stated he believes it should fulfil.0 -
The problem for Leave is that this is not a mainstream popular issue, as the turnout is likely to reflect. Parties that obsess about Europe are unlikely to be rewarded by the general electorate.Plato_Says said:
Absolutely - and it will be a war of attrition if Remain wins, perhaps more so because people are more aware/positions taken - and it's not such a single party [SNP] issue.Sean_F said:
But, it does recognise the asymmetric nature of this argument. Like the SNP, Leave have to get lucky once. Their opponents have to get lucky all the time.Plato_Says said:
It's all every SIndy in tactics.TheWhiteRabbit said:
Farage says he will push for second referendum if Remain wins narrowly
In an interview with the Daily Mirror Nigel Farage, the Ukip leader, has said that if Remain win the EU referendum narrowly, he will push for a second referendum. He told the paper:
In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way. If the remain campaign win two-thirds to one-third that ends it.
His over emphasis on this outcome suggests that it is his central expectation.
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Once again though, were the Beeb not funded via tax, no-one would give a stuff about whether it used its money to engage in a non-core activity or not.RobD said:
You can surely see the game they are playing though. Fair enough to not maintain it, but to delete entirely just smacks of a toys and pram situation.SouthamObserver said:
The wrong kind of cuts?RobD said:
Just so happened that the cut they chose was the one which elicited a very strong reaction, rather than cutting pay, or crap output etc.SouthamObserver said:Can I just say how outrageous it is that having been told to make cuts the BBC is making cuts? How dare they. It just proves their bias.
Presumably, the BBC has decided that offering recipes does not fit the remit the Culture Secretary has stated he believes it should fulfil.0 -
Well if you are looking at the BBC making savings on their website, I would cut live coverage of Barcelona and Real Madrid matches as well as live coverage of Champions League matches outside of the English/Scottish sides that make it through. It's just overseas jaunts for sports journalists and ex-football players.FrancisUrquhart said:
Yes of course. Because they couldn't find anywhere else to cut....hmm like spending a load of money on a new logo for a channel that was supposed to be closing, took 2 years extra to close than simply flicking the switch and then rebranded it online so in fact not closing it at all.SouthamObserver said:Can I just say how outrageous it is that having been told to make cuts the BBC is making cuts? How dare they. It just proves their bias.
And in terms of savings, wiping some recipes off the net doesn't save any money. In fact it probably costs money to action that, especially with all the red tape that is the BBC.
As I said down thread it is like the closing all the public bogs move. It is just designed to get publicity, nothing more.0 -
There's an interesting divergence in the Populus/Matt Singh polls that TSE keeps referencing from March.chestnut said:Plato_Says said:
I know we're sceptical of ORB given their tiny % Undecided share, yet this caught my eye.chestnut said:Meanwhile the proportion of soft voters – those either undecided or likely to change their minds come polling day – remains relatively low. Fifteen per cent are now considered soft voters, a drop of six points from last month.
Moreover 11 per cent of Remain voters and 9 per cent of Leave voters are soft, a decrease of 4 and 8 points respectively since the last poll in April.
Remain 24 points ahead on Mobiles, 4 behind on landlines.
Presumably, though, mobile usage is heavily weighted to young/more affluent so plays strongly to the Remain backing groups?0 -
If they scrape home thanks to massive lies and deceptions, they have in reality lost - and the verdict will be reversed in due course, probably by a large margin.Sean_F said:
But, it does recognise the asymmetric nature of this argument. Like the SNP, Leave have to get lucky once. Their opponents have to get lucky all the time.Plato_Says said:
It's all every SIndy in tactics.TheWhiteRabbit said:
Farage says he will push for second referendum if Remain wins narrowly
In an interview with the Daily Mirror Nigel Farage, the Ukip leader, has said that if Remain win the EU referendum narrowly, he will push for a second referendum. He told the paper:
In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way. If the remain campaign win two-thirds to one-third that ends it.
His over emphasis on this outcome suggests that it is his central expectation.0 -
It's apparently *part* of £15m worth of IT-based cuts. They don't say how big a part. Were it the whole lot, it'd be around £1350 per recipe!Charles said:
More to the point, if they have the database already, why does it cost £15m to host them on a website? I'd do it for £12m...RobD said:
Is the BBC on the hook to reduce expenditure? I thought the license fee was going up with inflation? And really, why has the BBC got a database of 11k recipes in the first place.MikeK said:Are the BBC going to reduce expenditure by.......
1. Cutting those over-large salaries that the top people get? NO!
2. Cutting those over-large salaries that middle management get? NO!
3. Cutting those great expensive studios that are seldom used? NO!
4. Cutting 15,000 recipes from a website to save £15M? YES! YES! YES!
5. Getting the supine Cameroon government to increase the the price of
it's License fee for 11 years? YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-363089760 -
Isn't that the same fallacy... people don't care about the EU but are really irked by immigration, and all the other stuff we know about - and many more people beyond PB will have learned as a result of EUref?SouthamObserver said:
The problem for Leave is that this is not a mainstream popular issue, as the turnout is likely to reflect. Parties that obsess about Europe are unlikely to be rewarded by the general electorate.Plato_Says said:
Absolutely - and it will be a war of attrition if Remain wins, perhaps more so because people are more aware/positions taken - and it's not such a single party [SNP] issue.Sean_F said:
But, it does recognise the asymmetric nature of this argument. Like the SNP, Leave have to get lucky once. Their opponents have to get lucky all the time.Plato_Says said:
It's all every SIndy in tactics.TheWhiteRabbit said:
Farage says he will push for second referendum if Remain wins narrowly
In an interview with the Daily Mirror Nigel Farage, the Ukip leader, has said that if Remain win the EU referendum narrowly, he will push for a second referendum. He told the paper:
In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way. If the remain campaign win two-thirds to one-third that ends it.
His over emphasis on this outcome suggests that it is his central expectation.
I think we've been here before dozens of times with threads saying "EU isn't important says MORI"0 -
Use the [pre] [/pre] tagsRobD said:
How about we go back to Avery's yellow boxes, although I can't for the life of me remember how it is done.Plato_Says said:
What is the definition of necessary?PBModerator said:
Most PBers don't have the time or the energy to do that.Plato_Says said:
By removing the / in the second last blockquote - the issue is fixed.PBModerator said:CAN PEOPLE STOP ADDING BLOCKQUOTES TO THEIR POSTS. IT IS CAUSING NESTING/QUOTING ISSUES.
So no more unnecessary blockquotes.
(It means 'preformatted')0 -
New TNS poll see sharp move to LEAVE
Remain 38 (-1), Leave 41% (+5), DK 21% (-5)0 -
Well there is also the move where they have 10 different journalists reporting from the same event, none of which they have the rights to show live tv coverage for.MaxPB said:
Well if you are looking at the BBC making savings on their website, I would cut live coverage of Barcelona and Real Madrid matches as well as live coverage of Champions League matches outside of the English/Scottish sides that make it through. It's just overseas jaunts for sports journalists and ex-football players.FrancisUrquhart said:
Yes of course. Because they couldn't find anywhere else to cut....hmm like spending a load of money on a new logo for a channel that was supposed to be closing, took 2 years extra to close than simply flicking the switch and then rebranded it online so in fact not closing it at all.SouthamObserver said:Can I just say how outrageous it is that having been told to make cuts the BBC is making cuts? How dare they. It just proves their bias.
And in terms of savings, wiping some recipes off the net doesn't save any money. In fact it probably costs money to action that, especially with all the red tape that is the BBC.
As I said down thread it is like the closing all the public bogs move. It is just designed to get publicity, nothing more.
In comparison when Sky have the rights to something, they make their team do the reports for Sky News, Sky Sports News, Sky Sports pre show, the actual show, post show, operate the technology etc etc etc.0 -
rcs1000 said:
Use the [pre] [/pre] tagsRobD said:
How about we go back to Avery's yellow boxes, although I can't for the life of me remember how it is done.Plato_Says said:
What is the definition of necessary?PBModerator said:
Most PBers don't have the time or the energy to do that.Plato_Says said:
By removing the / in the second last blockquote - the issue is fixed.PBModerator said:CAN PEOPLE STOP ADDING BLOCKQUOTES TO THEIR POSTS. IT IS CAUSING NESTING/QUOTING ISSUES.
So no more unnecessary blockquotes.
(It means 'preformatted')AveryLP
AveryLP
AveryLP
...drat, no luck.0 -
Just deleting a single / from a blockquote seems a lot simpler. What do I know.rcs1000 said:
Use the [pre] [/pre] tagsRobD said:
How about we go back to Avery's yellow boxes, although I can't for the life of me remember how it is done.Plato_Says said:
What is the definition of necessary?PBModerator said:
Most PBers don't have the time or the energy to do that.Plato_Says said:
By removing the / in the second last blockquote - the issue is fixed.PBModerator said:CAN PEOPLE STOP ADDING BLOCKQUOTES TO THEIR POSTS. IT IS CAUSING NESTING/QUOTING ISSUES.
So no more unnecessary blockquotes.
(It means 'preformatted')0 -
Except maybe the shareholders, but as long as they could sell enough advertising or make enough commission from sales of recipe books/groceries from their recipe pages it wouldn't be an issue. The fact that the BBC host these and aren't able to properly monetise them is an issue. If anything they should look to spin off the whole BBC Recipe website into a commercial entity, that way they can profit from the sale and the people get to keep what they want.david_herdson said:
Once again though, were the Beeb not funded via tax, no-one would give a stuff about whether it used its money to engage in a non-core activity or not.RobD said:
You can surely see the game they are playing though. Fair enough to not maintain it, but to delete entirely just smacks of a toys and pram situation.SouthamObserver said:
The wrong kind of cuts?RobD said:
Just so happened that the cut they chose was the one which elicited a very strong reaction, rather than cutting pay, or crap output etc.SouthamObserver said:Can I just say how outrageous it is that having been told to make cuts the BBC is making cuts? How dare they. It just proves their bias.
Presumably, the BBC has decided that offering recipes does not fit the remit the Culture Secretary has stated he believes it should fulfil.0 -
Still waiting for the Obamarama bounce....Must have been all that Boris Hitler stuff that shifted the needle ;-)TheScreamingEagles said:New TNS poll see sharp move to LEAVE
Remain 38 (-1), Leave 41% (+5), DK 21% (-5)0 -
The DKs seems on the high side (26% especially so).TheScreamingEagles said:New TNS poll see sharp move to LEAVE
Remain 38 (-1), Leave 41% (+5), DK 21% (-5)0 -
TheScreamingEagles said:
New TNS poll see sharp move to LEAVE
Remain 38 (-1), Leave 41% (+5), DK 21% (-5)
In fairness, the move to Remain with ORB (among all voters, as opposed to those saying Definite to Vote) was also outside the margin of error.SeanT said:
Ooh. Outside MOE. Game on, again?TheScreamingEagles said:New TNS poll see sharp move to LEAVE
Remain 38 (-1), Leave 41% (+5), DK 21% (-5)0 -
Let's see what the turnout is. If parties what to frame everything in terms of the EU even after the referendum, that's fine. I doubt they will be thanked for it, but I could well be wrong.Plato_Says said:
Isn't that the same fallacy... people don't care about the EU but are really irked by immigration, and all the other stuff we know about - and many more people beyond PB will have learned as a result of EUref?SouthamObserver said:
The problem for Leave is that this is not a mainstream popular issue, as the turnout is likely to reflect. Parties that obsess about Europe are unlikely to be rewarded by the general electorate.Plato_Says said:
Absolutely - and it will be a war of attrition if Remain wins, perhaps more so because people are more aware/positions taken - and it's not such a single party [SNP] issue.Sean_F said:
But, it does recognise the asymmetric nature of this argument. Like the SNP, Leave have to get lucky once. Their opponents have to get lucky all the time.Plato_Says said:
It's all every SIndy in tactics.TheWhiteRabbit said:
Farage says he will push for second referendum if Remain wins narrowly
In an interview with the Daily Mirror Nigel Farage, the Ukip leader, has said that if Remain win the EU referendum narrowly, he will push for a second referendum. He told the paper:
In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way. If the remain campaign win two-thirds to one-third that ends it.
His over emphasis on this outcome suggests that it is his central expectation.
I think we've been here before dozens of times with threads saying "EU isn't important says MORI"
0 -
The Catholic Church supported the Zentrum, which funny enough was called the Catholic Centre Party, which was a coalition partner in government throughout the Weimar Republic until Bruening's fall.ydoethur said:
They sold themselves as defenders of the established institutions against Communism. They were bankrolled by big business and supported by the Catholic Church.Charles said:
Indeed it is silly - I was reacting to @ydoethur's casual placing of Hitler and Mussolini on the right. As a history teacher he should know that things are more complicated than thatSouthamObserver said:
I am afraid that privatisation is not a left wing policy. It is a right wing one.
Frankly, though, I think it is rather silly to try to place the Nazis and Mussolini on the traditional right/left spectrum.
The left, however, has to take Stalin. On a smaller, less brutal - but still profoundly unpleasant and murderous - scale, Franco and the other southern European dictators of the mid-twentieth century were clearly on the right, as was the Apartheid regime in South Africa.
On privatisation - it's right wing if it's driven by a belief that the organisations are better run in private hands. If it's just a means to enrich your allies I don't think it is a right/left thing - it's just a mechanism at that point.
They assimilated the Freikorps, who were assembled to fight against Communism and crush the trade union/Spartacist movement.
They included among their members many former senior army officers, including Goering, who joined because they disliked Jews and Communists.
They were obsessed with the amassing of personal wealth and the nihilist ideas of Nietsche and Darwinism.
That sounds right wing to me.
Try Evans, The Coming of the Third Reich, for more information.0 -
And to put in perspective....just a few examples of BBC IT spending...david_herdson said:
It's apparently *part* of £15m worth of IT-based cuts. They don't say how big a part. Were it the whole lot, it'd be around £1350 per recipe!
‘Hard-up’ BBC blows £8m on odd puppet art website
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/6650688/BBC-blows-8m-on-weird-art-website.html
BBC admits wasting £98MILLION of licence fee payers' cash on scrapped digital scheme
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/bbc-admits-wasting-98million-licence-1909824
THE free-spending culture in the corridors of power at the BBC has wasted almost £350million of licence fee payers’ money on excessive pay-offs for departing executives, lavish relocation packages and a failed digital scheme.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/417958/Do-not-adjust-your-set-BBC-did-waste-350m0 -
This is one of a number of cuts. I suspect there will be plenty more.FrancisUrquhart said:
Yes of course. Because they couldn't find anywhere else to cut....hmm like spending a load of money on a new logo for a channel that was supposed to be closing, took 2 years extra to close than simply flicking the switch and then rebranded it online so in fact not closing it at all.SouthamObserver said:Can I just say how outrageous it is that having been told to make cuts the BBC is making cuts? How dare they. It just proves their bias.
And in terms of savings, wiping some recipes off the net doesn't save any money. In fact it probably costs money to action that, especially with all the red tape that is the BBC.
As I said down thread it is like the closing all the public bogs move. It is just designed to get publicity, nothing more. If they were serious about saving money or new remits, there are is far more major reforms, but instead it is get the MumsNet crowd pissed move instead.
0 -
Is the first TNS poll to have Leave ahead since February.SeanT said:
Ooh. Outside MOE. Game on, again?TheScreamingEagles said:New TNS poll see sharp move to LEAVE
Remain 38 (-1), Leave 41% (+5), DK 21% (-5)
Big chunk of DKs moving directly to LEAVE. Project Fear = Project Backfire?0 -
It isn't a cut that will save any money...it is pure posturing.SouthamObserver said:
This is one of a number of cuts. I suspect there will be plenty more.FrancisUrquhart said:
Yes of course. Because they couldn't find anywhere else to cut....hmm like spending a load of money on a new logo for a channel that was supposed to be closing, took 2 years extra to close than simply flicking the switch and then rebranded it online so in fact not closing it at all.SouthamObserver said:Can I just say how outrageous it is that having been told to make cuts the BBC is making cuts? How dare they. It just proves their bias.
And in terms of savings, wiping some recipes off the net doesn't save any money. In fact it probably costs money to action that, especially with all the red tape that is the BBC.
As I said down thread it is like the closing all the public bogs move. It is just designed to get publicity, nothing more. If they were serious about saving money or new remits, there are is far more major reforms, but instead it is get the MumsNet crowd pissed move instead.0 -
TNS find a lot of people who did not vote in May 2015 saying they will not vote this time either.0
-
Christ. My heart can't take much more of this.TheScreamingEagles said:New TNS poll see sharp move to LEAVE
Remain 38 (-1), Leave 41% (+5), DK 21% (-5)0 -
What hopefully will come out of this is a substantial raising of awareness of the importance of the EU in determining what happens on all these bread and butter issues. It will be a less abstract thing than before.SouthamObserver said:
Let's see what the turnout is. If parties what to frame everything in terms of the EU even after the referendum, that's fine. I doubt they will be thanked for it, but I could well be wrong.Plato_Says said:
Isn't that the same fallacy... people don't care about the EU but are really irked by immigration, and all the other stuff we know about - and many more people beyond PB will have learned as a result of EUref?SouthamObserver said:
The problem for Leave is that this is not a mainstream popular issue, as the turnout is likely to reflect. Parties that obsess about Europe are unlikely to be rewarded by the general electorate.Plato_Says said:
Absolutely - and it will be a war of attrition if Remain wins, perhaps more so because people are more aware/positions taken - and it's not such a single party [SNP] issue.Sean_F said:
But, it does recognise the asymmetric nature of this argument. Like the SNP, Leave have to get lucky once. Their opponents have to get lucky all the time.Plato_Says said:
It's all every SIndy in tactics.TheWhiteRabbit said:
Farage says he will push for second referendum if Remain wins narrowly
In an interview with the Daily Mirror Nigel Farage, the Ukip leader, has said that if Remain win the EU referendum narrowly, he will push for a second referendum. He told the paper:
In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way. If the remain campaign win two-thirds to one-third that ends it.
His over emphasis on this outcome suggests that it is his central expectation.
I think we've been here before dozens of times with threads saying "EU isn't important says MORI"
Ironically, the hysterics of the REMAIN side will increase this process. They used to tell us it wasn't terribly important and we shouldn't fuss about it. It will be rather hard to go back to that formula now.0 -
SkyData had DKs at c30% too. It varied a pt or two across regions, but that's it.RobD said:
The DKs seems on the high side (26% especially so).TheScreamingEagles said:New TNS poll see sharp move to LEAVE
Remain 38 (-1), Leave 41% (+5), DK 21% (-5)0 -
I don't think the Nazis easily fit into Left/Right categorisation. Some of their long-term aims, such as the eradication of Christianity, were completely at odds with those of German Conservatives.JohnO said:
The Catholic Church supported the Zentrum, which funny enough was called the Catholic Centre Party, which was a coalition partner in government throughout the Weimar Republic until Bruening's fall.ydoethur said:
They sold themselves as defenders of the established institutions against Communism. They were bankrolled by big business and supported by the Catholic Church.Charles said:
Indeed it is silly - I was reacting to @ydoethur's casual placing of Hitler and Mussolini on the right. As a history teacher he should know that things are more complicated than thatSouthamObserver said:
I am afraid that privatisation is not a left wing policy. It is a right wing one.
Frankly, though, I think it is rather silly to try to place the Nazis and Mussolini on the traditional right/left spectrum.
The left, however, has to take Stalin. On a smaller, less brutal - but still profoundly unpleasant and murderous - scale, Franco and the other southern European dictators of the mid-twentieth century were clearly on the right, as was the Apartheid regime in South Africa.
On privatisation - it's right wing if it's driven by a belief that the organisations are better run in private hands. If it's just a means to enrich your allies I don't think it is a right/left thing - it's just a mechanism at that point.
They assimilated the Freikorps, who were assembled to fight against Communism and crush the trade union/Spartacist movement.
They included among their members many former senior army officers, including Goering, who joined because they disliked Jews and Communists.
They were obsessed with the amassing of personal wealth and the nihilist ideas of Nietsche and Darwinism.
That sounds right wing to me.
Try Evans, The Coming of the Third Reich, for more information.0 -
I would assume so. This is from Ofcom on mobile access:Charles said:Presumably, though, mobile usage is heavily weighted to young/more affluent so plays strongly to the Remain backing groups?
Smartphones have become the hub of our daily lives and are now in the pockets of two thirds (66%) of UK adults, up from 39% in 2012. The vast majority (90%) of 16-24 year olds own one; but 55-64 year olds are also joining the smartphone revolution, with ownership in this age group more than doubling since 2012, from 19% to 50%.
On the basis of the things I witness, I also see younger people as much more active users of their mobiles/smartphones than older generations.0 -
If only they had used that £8mn to keep the 2015 election show in iPlayer for another year (and perhaps bought the rights to the sky/itv coverage). That's a policy I'm sure @Scrapheap_as_was could get behindFrancisUrquhart said:
And to put in perspective...david_herdson said:
It's apparently *part* of £15m worth of IT-based cuts. They don't say how big a part. Were it the whole lot, it'd be around £1350 per recipe!
‘Hard-up’ BBC blows £8m on odd puppet art website
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/6650688/BBC-blows-8m-on-weird-art-website.html
BBC admits wasting £98MILLION of licence fee payers' cash on scrapped digital scheme
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/bbc-admits-wasting-98million-licence-1909824
THE free-spending culture in the corridors of power at the BBC has wasted almost £350million of licence fee payers’ money on excessive pay-offs for departing executives, lavish relocation packages and a failed digital scheme.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/417958/Do-not-adjust-your-set-BBC-did-waste-350m 0 -
TNS is one of the few online polls to have Remain ahead, so this might be a reversion to the mean for online pollsters.Casino_Royale said:
Christ. My heart can't take much more of this.TheScreamingEagles said:New TNS poll see sharp move to LEAVE
Remain 38 (-1), Leave 41% (+5), DK 21% (-5)
As ever with shifts this large, we need to see other polls, so far, it appears to be an outlier, we should be getting the Ipsos Mori poll tomorrow and a ComRes phone some time this week, so we can judge properly then.0 -
The graph on the wiki has DKs much lower typically:Plato_Says said:
SkyData had DKs at c30% too. It varied a pt or two across regions, but that's it.RobD said:
The DKs seems on the high side (26% especially so).TheScreamingEagles said:New TNS poll see sharp move to LEAVE
Remain 38 (-1), Leave 41% (+5), DK 21% (-5)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:UK_EU_referendum_polling.svg0 -
That looks a very plausible number to me.RobD said:
The DKs seems on the high side (26% especially so).TheScreamingEagles said:New TNS poll see sharp move to LEAVE
Remain 38 (-1), Leave 41% (+5), DK 21% (-5)
0 -
I'm taking solace in the ICM 14pt margin of errorCasino_Royale said:
Christ. My heart can't take much more of this.TheScreamingEagles said:New TNS poll see sharp move to LEAVE
Remain 38 (-1), Leave 41% (+5), DK 21% (-5)
0 -
Well if they spent £8m on making iPlayer decent. Technologically it is utter bollocks platform. The pirates deploy their content via better tech than the BBC.RobD said:
If only they had used that £8mn to keep the 2015 election show in iPlayer for another year (and perhaps bought the rights to the sky/itv coverage). That's a policy I'm sure @Scrapheap_as_was could get behindFrancisUrquhart said:
And to put in perspective...david_herdson said:
It's apparently *part* of £15m worth of IT-based cuts. They don't say how big a part. Were it the whole lot, it'd be around £1350 per recipe!
‘Hard-up’ BBC blows £8m on odd puppet art website
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/6650688/BBC-blows-8m-on-weird-art-website.html
BBC admits wasting £98MILLION of licence fee payers' cash on scrapped digital scheme
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/bbc-admits-wasting-98million-licence-1909824
THE free-spending culture in the corridors of power at the BBC has wasted almost £350million of licence fee payers’ money on excessive pay-offs for departing executives, lavish relocation packages and a failed digital scheme.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/417958/Do-not-adjust-your-set-BBC-did-waste-350m0 -
There's still time to repent, TSE. Listen to your better angels.TheScreamingEagles said:New TNS poll see sharp move to LEAVE
Remain 38 (-1), Leave 41% (+5), DK 21% (-5)0 -
Are you still in America?RobD said:
The graph on the wiki has DKs much lower typically:Plato_Says said:
SkyData had DKs at c30% too. It varied a pt or two across regions, but that's it.RobD said:
The DKs seems on the high side (26% especially so).TheScreamingEagles said:New TNS poll see sharp move to LEAVE
Remain 38 (-1), Leave 41% (+5), DK 21% (-5)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:UK_EU_referendum_polling.svg
If so, have you got your postal/proxy vote sorted out for this referendum?0 -
Can't say I've ever had any problems with it, although I only watch some politics shows on it.FrancisUrquhart said:
Well if they spent £8m on making iPlayer decent. Technologically it is utter bollocks platform. The pirates deploy their content via better tech than the BBC.RobD said:
If only they had used that £8mn to keep the 2015 election show in iPlayer for another year (and perhaps bought the rights to the sky/itv coverage). That's a policy I'm sure @Scrapheap_as_was could get behindFrancisUrquhart said:
And to put in perspective...david_herdson said:
It's apparently *part* of £15m worth of IT-based cuts. They don't say how big a part. Were it the whole lot, it'd be around £1350 per recipe!
‘Hard-up’ BBC blows £8m on odd puppet art website
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/6650688/BBC-blows-8m-on-weird-art-website.html
BBC admits wasting £98MILLION of licence fee payers' cash on scrapped digital scheme
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/bbc-admits-wasting-98million-licence-1909824
THE free-spending culture in the corridors of power at the BBC has wasted almost £350million of licence fee payers’ money on excessive pay-offs for departing executives, lavish relocation packages and a failed digital scheme.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/417958/Do-not-adjust-your-set-BBC-did-waste-350m0 -
I have to say if you had wanted a set of polls that was designed to spread yet more confusion you couldn't have asked for a better set than the ICM, ORB and TNS polls of the last 24 hours. Who the hell can make any conclusions from them?TheScreamingEagles said:
TNS is one of the few online polls to have Remain ahead, so this might be a reversion to the mean for online pollsters.Casino_Royale said:
Christ. My heart can't take much more of this.TheScreamingEagles said:New TNS poll see sharp move to LEAVE
Remain 38 (-1), Leave 41% (+5), DK 21% (-5)
As ever with shifts this large, we need to see other polls, so far, it appears to be an outlier, we should be getting the Ipsos Mori poll tomorrow and a ComRes phone some time this week, so we can judge properly then.0 -
Yeah but I'm thinking about abstaining as I feel a bit guilty voting from overseas (even if I may come back sometime next year). Also I haven't got a clue how I'd vote...TheScreamingEagles said:
Are you still in America?RobD said:
The graph on the wiki has DKs much lower typically:Plato_Says said:
SkyData had DKs at c30% too. It varied a pt or two across regions, but that's it.RobD said:
The DKs seems on the high side (26% especially so).TheScreamingEagles said:New TNS poll see sharp move to LEAVE
Remain 38 (-1), Leave 41% (+5), DK 21% (-5)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:UK_EU_referendum_polling.svg
If so, have you got your postal/proxy vote sorted out for this referendum?0 -
Underneath the hood, the platform they have created is very poor.RobD said:
Can't say I've ever had any problems with it, although I only watch some politics shows on it.FrancisUrquhart said:
Well if they spent £8m on making iPlayer decent. Technologically it is utter bollocks platform. The pirates deploy their content via better tech than the BBC.RobD said:
If only they had used that £8mn to keep the 2015 election show in iPlayer for another year (and perhaps bought the rights to the sky/itv coverage). That's a policy I'm sure @Scrapheap_as_was could get behindFrancisUrquhart said:
And to put in perspective...david_herdson said:
It's apparently *part* of £15m worth of IT-based cuts. They don't say how big a part. Were it the whole lot, it'd be around £1350 per recipe!
‘Hard-up’ BBC blows £8m on odd puppet art website
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/6650688/BBC-blows-8m-on-weird-art-website.html
BBC admits wasting £98MILLION of licence fee payers' cash on scrapped digital scheme
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/bbc-admits-wasting-98million-licence-1909824
THE free-spending culture in the corridors of power at the BBC has wasted almost £350million of licence fee payers’ money on excessive pay-offs for departing executives, lavish relocation packages and a failed digital scheme.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/417958/Do-not-adjust-your-set-BBC-did-waste-350m0 -
The TNS fieldwork was 10th of May to the 12th of May inclusive.
So before the ORB and ICM polls.0 -
@runnymede"
"Given the political trajectory the EU is on, and its economic dysfunctionality, there is no way this issue will go away."
Quite right and if Remain wins the vote it does not mean that those who believe that the UK would be a better to place if it left the EU will suddenly change their beliefs.
I became convinced that the EU was bad for the UK at the time of the Maastricht Treaty, a very minority view at that time, and since then I have been quietly and gently arguing my point at every suitable opportunity. Now, it would seem that my view is mainstream if not actually a majority one. If remain wins I'll carry on as I have been for the past 20-odd years and I expect that they stupidities of the EU hierarchy will win more people over to the Better Off Out position over the next few years.
Leave aside, if you will, the ideological Europhiles, there are I think a significant number of people who don't like the EU but on balance think the economic benefits of staying in outweigh the negative aspects and the unknowns of voting to leave. Over the coming years that number will gradually reduce as the EU becomes ever more intrusive and economically scroletic. That will lead to a majority wishing to leave, the issue will not be settled by this referendum.
0 -
Presumably, though, mobile usage is heavily weighted to young/more affluent so plays strongly to the Remain backing groups?Charles said:
There's an interesting divergence in the Populus/Matt Singh polls that TSE keeps referencing from March.chestnut said:Plato_Says said:
I know we're sceptical of ORB given their tiny % Undecided share, yet this caught my eye.chestnut said:Meanwhile the proportion of soft voters – those either undecided or likely to change their minds come polling day – remains relatively low. Fifteen per cent are now considered soft voters, a drop of six points from last month.
Moreover 11 per cent of Remain voters and 9 per cent of Leave voters are soft, a decrease of 4 and 8 points respectively since the last poll in April.
Remain 24 points ahead on Mobiles, 4 behind on landlines.
My experience? The under 35s in London and the south-east are overwhelmingly for Remain.
I went on an "AB" stag-do of 14 at the weekend and I was one of only two Leavers, the other only confessing to me in whispers that Obama's intervention had tipped him over the edge. When I confessed to being a strong Leaver I got looks as if I had just confessed to multiple bestial relations with everyone's pet dog.
However, the one other Leaver did become much more audible later on when a bit more alcohol had been consumed and he found out the UK result in the Eurovision Song Contest in the minibus on the way home.
Interestingly, there was one Remainer who was moving to undecided because he felt he'd only heard one side of the argument.0 -
Fair point, and I suppose that matters the more people use it. Oh well, another couple of £mn to fix it.FrancisUrquhart said:
Underneath the hood, the platform they have created is very poor.RobD said:
Can't say I've ever had any problems with it, although I only watch some politics shows on it.FrancisUrquhart said:
Well if they spent £8m on making iPlayer decent. Technologically it is utter bollocks platform. The pirates deploy their content via better tech than the BBC.RobD said:
If only they had used that £8mn to keep the 2015 election show in iPlayer for another year (and perhaps bought the rights to the sky/itv coverage). That's a policy I'm sure @Scrapheap_as_was could get behindFrancisUrquhart said:
And to put in perspective...david_herdson said:
It's apparently *part* of £15m worth of IT-based cuts. They don't say how big a part. Were it the whole lot, it'd be around £1350 per recipe!
‘Hard-up’ BBC blows £8m on odd puppet art website
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/6650688/BBC-blows-8m-on-weird-art-website.html
BBC admits wasting £98MILLION of licence fee payers' cash on scrapped digital scheme
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/bbc-admits-wasting-98million-licence-1909824
THE free-spending culture in the corridors of power at the BBC has wasted almost £350million of licence fee payers’ money on excessive pay-offs for departing executives, lavish relocation packages and a failed digital scheme.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/417958/Do-not-adjust-your-set-BBC-did-waste-350m0 -
Tea leaves Richard and look at the data that best suits youRichard_Tyndall said:
I have to say if you had wanted a set of polls that was designed to spread yet more confusion you couldn't have asked for a better set than the ICM, ORB and TNS polls of the last 24 hours. Who the hell can make any conclusions from them?TheScreamingEagles said:
TNS is one of the few online polls to have Remain ahead, so this might be a reversion to the mean for online pollsters.Casino_Royale said:
Christ. My heart can't take much more of this.TheScreamingEagles said:New TNS poll see sharp move to LEAVE
Remain 38 (-1), Leave 41% (+5), DK 21% (-5)
As ever with shifts this large, we need to see other polls, so far, it appears to be an outlier, we should be getting the Ipsos Mori poll tomorrow and a ComRes phone some time this week, so we can judge properly then.
I know a leaver who this morning is convinced Remain are going to win because Farage is already planning for a second referendum.0 -
That Corbyn poll among Labour members:
Corbyn Doing Well (net) (vs Nov 15)
OA: +45 (+11)
Corbyn doing well (net)
Labour Party Member:
Before GE2015: +24
After GE 2015: +70
http://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/1u5r7s2duv/TimesResults_160511_LabourMembers_W.pdf0 -
I only use it when someone here gasps at a DP horror and I need to rewind a few mins to catch it.RobD said:
Can't say I've ever had any problems with it, although I only watch some politics shows on it.FrancisUrquhart said:
Well if they spent £8m on making iPlayer decent. Technologically it is utter bollocks platform. The pirates deploy their content via better tech than the BBC.RobD said:
If only they had used that £8mn to keep the 2015 election show in iPlayer for another year (and perhaps bought the rights to the sky/itv coverage). That's a policy I'm sure @Scrapheap_as_was could get behindFrancisUrquhart said:
And to put in perspective...david_herdson said:
It's apparently *part* of £15m worth of IT-based cuts. They don't say how big a part. Were it the whole lot, it'd be around £1350 per recipe!
‘Hard-up’ BBC blows £8m on odd puppet art website
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/6650688/BBC-blows-8m-on-weird-art-website.html
BBC admits wasting £98MILLION of licence fee payers' cash on scrapped digital scheme
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/bbc-admits-wasting-98million-licence-1909824
THE free-spending culture in the corridors of power at the BBC has wasted almost £350million of licence fee payers’ money on excessive pay-offs for departing executives, lavish relocation packages and a failed digital scheme.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/417958/Do-not-adjust-your-set-BBC-did-waste-350m0 -
True. Personally, I'd prefer to see the Beeb converted into a mutual owned by its licence-fee payers / subscribers in the future, rather than to sell it off to independent share-holders.MaxPB said:
Except maybe the shareholders, but as long as they could sell enough advertising or make enough commission from sales of recipe books/groceries from their recipe pages it wouldn't be an issue. The fact that the BBC host these and aren't able to properly monetise them is an issue. If anything they should look to spin off the whole BBC Recipe website into a commercial entity, that way they can profit from the sale and the people get to keep what they want.david_herdson said:
Once again though, were the Beeb not funded via tax, no-one would give a stuff about whether it used its money to engage in a non-core activity or not.RobD said:
You can surely see the game they are playing though. Fair enough to not maintain it, but to delete entirely just smacks of a toys and pram situation.SouthamObserver said:
The wrong kind of cuts?RobD said:
Just so happened that the cut they chose was the one which elicited a very strong reaction, rather than cutting pay, or crap output etc.SouthamObserver said:Can I just say how outrageous it is that having been told to make cuts the BBC is making cuts? How dare they. It just proves their bias.
Presumably, the BBC has decided that offering recipes does not fit the remit the Culture Secretary has stated he believes it should fulfil.
However, your main point I largely agree with. I wouldn't have a problem with the Beeb keeping the recipes site under their control but it's symptomatic of their thinking that it's a cost to be cut rather than an asset to be worked for profit.0 -
If in doubt, vote for the status quo.RobD said:
Yeah but I'm thinking about abstaining as I feel a bit guilty voting from overseas (even if I may come back sometime next year). Also I haven't got a clue how I'd vote...TheScreamingEagles said:
Are you still in America?RobD said:
The graph on the wiki has DKs much lower typically:Plato_Says said:
SkyData had DKs at c30% too. It varied a pt or two across regions, but that's it.RobD said:
The DKs seems on the high side (26% especially so).TheScreamingEagles said:New TNS poll see sharp move to LEAVE
Remain 38 (-1), Leave 41% (+5), DK 21% (-5)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:UK_EU_referendum_polling.svg
If so, have you got your postal/proxy vote sorted out for this referendum?
Plus you're as British as English Tea, you should have no worries about voting whilst overseas.0 -
Assuming you intend to live here in the next 40yrs, you've every right to vote - that's the last time period.RobD said:
Yeah but I'm thinking about abstaining as I feel a bit guilty voting from overseas (even if I may come back sometime next year). Also I haven't got a clue how I'd vote...TheScreamingEagles said:
Are you still in America?RobD said:
The graph on the wiki has DKs much lower typically:Plato_Says said:
SkyData had DKs at c30% too. It varied a pt or two across regions, but that's it.RobD said:
The DKs seems on the high side (26% especially so).TheScreamingEagles said:New TNS poll see sharp move to LEAVE
Remain 38 (-1), Leave 41% (+5), DK 21% (-5)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:UK_EU_referendum_polling.svg
If so, have you got your postal/proxy vote sorted out for this referendum?0 -
REMAIN is not the status quo.TheScreamingEagles said:
If in doubt, vote for the status quo.RobD said:
Yeah but I'm thinking about abstaining as I feel a bit guilty voting from overseas (even if I may come back sometime next year). Also I haven't got a clue how I'd vote...TheScreamingEagles said:
Are you still in America?RobD said:
The graph on the wiki has DKs much lower typically:Plato_Says said:
SkyData had DKs at c30% too. It varied a pt or two across regions, but that's it.RobD said:
The DKs seems on the high side (26% especially so).TheScreamingEagles said:New TNS poll see sharp move to LEAVE
Remain 38 (-1), Leave 41% (+5), DK 21% (-5)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:UK_EU_referendum_polling.svg
If so, have you got your postal/proxy vote sorted out for this referendum?
Plus you're as British as English Tea, you should have no worries about voting whilst overseas.0 -
More on that Labour Poll:
Do you think that Labour currently is or is not on course to be in Government after the General Election in 2020? (net on course)
Labour Party Member:
Before GE2015: -13
After GE 2015: +40
How likely or unlikely do you think it is that Jeremy Corbyn will ever become Prime Minister? (net likely)
Labour Party Member:
Before GE2015: -22
After GE 2015: +250 -
As the longest serving pbTory, I feel it my duty to act as your proxy.RobD said:
Yeah but I'm thinking about abstaining as I feel a bit guilty voting from overseas (even if I may come back sometime next year). Also I haven't got a clue how I'd vote...TheScreamingEagles said:
Are you still in America?RobD said:
The graph on the wiki has DKs much lower typically:Plato_Says said:
SkyData had DKs at c30% too. It varied a pt or two across regions, but that's it.RobD said:
The DKs seems on the high side (26% especially so).TheScreamingEagles said:New TNS poll see sharp move to LEAVE
Remain 38 (-1), Leave 41% (+5), DK 21% (-5)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:UK_EU_referendum_polling.svg
If so, have you got your postal/proxy vote sorted out for this referendum?0 -
Corbynism the Nation Sweeping!!CarlottaVance said:More on that Labour Poll:
Do you think that Labour currently is or is not on course to be in Government after the General Election in 2020? (net on course)
Labour Party Member:
Before GE2015: -13
After GE 2015: +40
wait, that's not right...0 -
No guarantee you'll make it to the polling place though, especially if a train journey is involved...JohnO said:
As the longest serving pbTory, I feel it my duty to act as your proxy.RobD said:
Yeah but I'm thinking about abstaining as I feel a bit guilty voting from overseas (even if I may come back sometime next year). Also I haven't got a clue how I'd vote...TheScreamingEagles said:
Are you still in America?RobD said:
The graph on the wiki has DKs much lower typically:Plato_Says said:
SkyData had DKs at c30% too. It varied a pt or two across regions, but that's it.RobD said:
The DKs seems on the high side (26% especially so).TheScreamingEagles said:New TNS poll see sharp move to LEAVE
Remain 38 (-1), Leave 41% (+5), DK 21% (-5)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:UK_EU_referendum_polling.svg
If so, have you got your postal/proxy vote sorted out for this referendum? 0 -
There is no status quo on offer.TheScreamingEagles said:
If in doubt, vote for the status quo.RobD said:
Yeah but I'm thinking about abstaining as I feel a bit guilty voting from overseas (even if I may come back sometime next year). Also I haven't got a clue how I'd vote...TheScreamingEagles said:
Are you still in America?RobD said:
The graph on the wiki has DKs much lower typically:Plato_Says said:
SkyData had DKs at c30% too. It varied a pt or two across regions, but that's it.RobD said:
The DKs seems on the high side (26% especially so).TheScreamingEagles said:New TNS poll see sharp move to LEAVE
Remain 38 (-1), Leave 41% (+5), DK 21% (-5)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:UK_EU_referendum_polling.svg
If so, have you got your postal/proxy vote sorted out for this referendum?
Plus you're as British as English Tea, you should have no worries about voting whilst overseas.0 -
The BBC had the Good Food magazine didn't it - owned by BBC Worldwide. Is that still going? That's the natural home for such content.david_herdson said:
True. Personally, I'd prefer to see the Beeb converted into a mutual owned by its licence-fee payers / subscribers in the future, rather than to sell it off to independent share-holders.MaxPB said:
Except maybe the shareholders, but as long as they could sell enough advertising or make enough commission from sales of recipe books/groceries from their recipe pages it wouldn't be an issue. The fact that the BBC host these and aren't able to properly monetise them is an issue. If anything they should look to spin off the whole BBC Recipe website into a commercial entity, that way they can profit from the sale and the people get to keep what they want.david_herdson said:
Once again though, were the Beeb not funded via tax, no-one would give a stuff about whether it used its money to engage in a non-core activity or not.RobD said:
You can surely see the game they are playing though. Fair enough to not maintain it, but to delete entirely just smacks of a toys and pram situation.SouthamObserver said:
The wrong kind of cuts?RobD said:
Just so happened that the cut they chose was the one which elicited a very strong reaction, rather than cutting pay, or crap output etc.SouthamObserver said:Can I just say how outrageous it is that having been told to make cuts the BBC is making cuts? How dare they. It just proves their bias.
Presumably, the BBC has decided that offering recipes does not fit the remit the Culture Secretary has stated he believes it should fulfil.
However, your main point I largely agree with. I wouldn't have a problem with the Beeb keeping the recipes site under their control but it's symptomatic of their thinking that it's a cost to be cut rather than an asset to be worked for profit.0 -
I think that's correct, and Alastair's piece sums it up very well. Haven't read the whole thread so not sure if today's poll has been quoted:david_herdson said:
Put simply, they cannot take their party back until their party is ready for them to take it back - and it won't be ready until Corbyn and his kind are discredited. That might happen before 2020; chances are it will be afterwards. The Labour right also need a figure they can rally around. Blair had already proved himself under Kinnock and Smith. At present, there is no such figure. Unfortunately, the difficulty is that it'll be almost impossible for anyone on Labour's right to distinguish themselves at present: either they'll be tied to Corbyn or they'll be disloyal to him. How do you square that circle?
What isn't an option is breaking away. There might be a large block in parliament who'd follow given the right conditions but those conditions won't be there. The unions won't defect, not all that many members would (going on both the experience of the SDP and the 2015 leadership vote). Would voters? There's no love for Corbyn, for the Lib Dems, for UKIP or the Tories among centrist floating voters, so there is a pool to fish in but again, we go back to the questions of what the positive vision of an SDP2 would be, and who would front its message.
http://labourlist.org/2016/05/corbyn-in-strongest-position-yet-as-members-believe-he-is-headed-for-downing-street/
Bottom line: members voted for Corbyn because they felt he offered an interesting alternative to the Tories, which is why they joined the party, and nobody else seemed to be doing so, and that remains the case. They are I think open in principle to accepting McDonnell, who is more clubbable, fluent and a traditional politician in both good and bad senses, but only if Jeremy stood down voluntarily, and I'm not convinced the polling difference would be huge, or that right/moderate critics would feel it had advanced matters.
I think that a chunk of members are intellectually interested in alternative ideas IF they aren't coupled with coded attacks on the leadership, and Corbyn is both explicitly and in practice fine with that. It's a cart and horse thing. If X seemed fizzing with interesting concepts that really engaged people, and X then decided to challenge for the leadership, he might have a shot at it. But if X starts by attacking the leadership, most of us just say "STFU, come back when you've something constructive to suggest". Merely saying "I could maybe beat the Tories and do something better" is really not an interesting offer.0 -
Yes, but you only ever support anecdotes and information here that supports the Remain case, and you are actively campaigning for Remain.TheScreamingEagles said:
Tea leaves Richard and look at the data that best suits youRichard_Tyndall said:
I have to say if you had wanted a set of polls that was designed to spread yet more confusion you couldn't have asked for a better set than the ICM, ORB and TNS polls of the last 24 hours. Who the hell can make any conclusions from them?TheScreamingEagles said:
TNS is one of the few online polls to have Remain ahead, so this might be a reversion to the mean for online pollsters.Casino_Royale said:
Christ. My heart can't take much more of this.TheScreamingEagles said:New TNS poll see sharp move to LEAVE
Remain 38 (-1), Leave 41% (+5), DK 21% (-5)
As ever with shifts this large, we need to see other polls, so far, it appears to be an outlier, we should be getting the Ipsos Mori poll tomorrow and a ComRes phone some time this week, so we can judge properly then.
I know a leaver who this morning is convinced Remain are going to win because Farage is already planning for a second referendum.
In the interests of balance would you care to share anything that doesn't paint a rosy picture for Remain?0 -
That's the message Leave should hammer home.Richard_Tyndall said:
There is no status quo on offer.TheScreamingEagles said:
If in doubt, vote for the status quo.RobD said:
Yeah but I'm thinking about abstaining as I feel a bit guilty voting from overseas (even if I may come back sometime next year). Also I haven't got a clue how I'd vote...TheScreamingEagles said:
Are you still in America?RobD said:
The graph on the wiki has DKs much lower typically:Plato_Says said:
SkyData had DKs at c30% too. It varied a pt or two across regions, but that's it.RobD said:
The DKs seems on the high side (26% especially so).TheScreamingEagles said:New TNS poll see sharp move to LEAVE
Remain 38 (-1), Leave 41% (+5), DK 21% (-5)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:UK_EU_referendum_polling.svg
If so, have you got your postal/proxy vote sorted out for this referendum?
Plus you're as British as English Tea, you should have no worries about voting whilst overseas.
40 years ago you voted for an Economic Trading block, today you're voting for a European Union, who knows what you'll be voting for in 40 years time0
This discussion has been closed.