The sheer amount of hatred the Labour left is demonstrating towards Keir Starmer strongly suggests whatever his faults he is at least getting something right.
Sir FIGJAM!
He's the Kevin Pietersen of British politics. Mark my word: next he'll be texting the EU advising them how to run rings around Frosty in the NI protocol negotiations.
The sheer amount of hatred the Labour left is demonstrating towards Keir Starmer strongly suggests whatever his faults he is at least getting something right.
Sir FIGJAM!
He's the Kevin Pietersen of British politics. Mark my word: next he'll be texting the EU advising them how to run rings around Frosty in the NI protocol negotiations.
They should pray to the Norse gods.
A Thor would sort Frost out.
I’m a’freyja you’ve done it now
Possibly. Norn of us will be able to keep up with this.
The sheer amount of hatred the Labour left is demonstrating towards Keir Starmer strongly suggests whatever his faults he is at least getting something right.
Sir FIGJAM!
He's the Kevin Pietersen of British politics. Mark my word: next he'll be texting the EU advising them how to run rings around Frosty in the NI protocol negotiations.
They should pray to the Norse gods.
A Thor would sort Frost out.
I’m a’freyja you’ve done it now
Possibly. Norn of us will be able to keep up with this.
Will be interesting to see where the two sides get to with this renegotiation. Th unsquareable circle is that with the UK GB diverged from EU standards a border must go somewhere. Its also clear that the border can't go between ROI and the EU, or ROI and NI, or NI and GB.
Happily there is a solution. EU and UK remain entirely aligned. Here is the compromise - the UK drops its demands to be treated as a 3rd country and recognises that it is both aligned and going to stay aligned on the big stuff. And the EU drops its demands for a hard border as the UK GB would be treated as an extension like NI is.
That way not only do we fix the Norniron FUBAR, we can reinstate the UK as a trading zone and have hassle free access to the EEA markets. Have an agreement not to go wandering away from the existing standards and an arbitration process in case we do.
This is ridiculous. If alignment has to happen then it needs to be alignment between both sides, not the one side following the other side's rules. What needs to happen is that the UK and the EU both accept that each other will have high product standards even if they slightly differ in the detail. They allow for each others products to have full equivalency in the island of Ireland and are not to be sold commercially in GB or mainland EU. A tiny amount of products will circulate beyond Ireland through informal mechanisms but it won't have a meaningful impact and is less important than the peace process.
You miss the point. I am parking all of the bullshit and looking at practicalities. We are not talking about one side following the other side's rules. Our rules are their rules are our rules. We just need to drop the "sovrinty" spin and recognise this.
As and when there is a divergence issue in the future an arbitration process can fix them so that both parties are happy. This is the same as with any trade deal with anyone.
"If alignment has to happen" - we are already aligned!
So you voted for Brexit because you thought us having a say in the EU was too much trouble even though you were quite happy to follow its rules?
Yes. My view was that we were not and never going to agree to the political project of a single currency and a single army etc. So we either choose when to move to the outer ring of the "twin track" Europe, or they get to decide.
When you sat "Follow its rules" you reveal that you have the mentality of a small child. When you agree a trade deal you agree to follow the rules of that deal. Jaguar has to make cars for the American market that follow its rules. It has no say in those rules. Same for Chinese purveyors of spyware smartphones selling into the EEA.
We had a permanent opt out from the Euro.
You think that at some point in the future, they would have kicked us out of the European Parliament and Council and said, "From now on, you get no votes on single market legislation"?
I'm confused. According to many Brexiteers part of the reason we had to leave was that the Parliament was undemocratic, that they bullied us etc etc. To read what you posted its as if it was democratic after all and we had a significant say in its affairs.
You're deflecting. I'm not asking about why other people voted for Brexit but about why you did, and because the position you've just outlined makes no sense. If you were happy with the single market, what was the benefit of giving up our position in the institutions?
Happy with the single market - the EEA - yes. Happy with the EU, no.
The EU is not the EEA. Your problem is that you think they are the same.
The EEA is just an extension of the EU single market. The sole legislature for EEA law is the EU.
To put it another way, if every member of the EU felt like you and decided to leave and join the EEA, they would need to recreate all the political institutions again to make it work.
That is not true.
The sole authority for non EU members of the EEA is the EFTA Court. That exists outside of the EU and there is no need for any of the other political institutions if one is an EFTA member of the EEA.
That misses the point entirely. The legislation that is transposed to the EEA members comes from the EU. Having an independent court is neither here nor there.
Without the EU, there would be nothing to transpose and no single market. The EFTA court would be redundant.
In which case it would just be EFTA. I see your point but it is rather pointless. Because the original claim was about being happy being in the EEA but not in the EU. Something that is perfectly possible.
It's only possible if not everyone does it and you accept being a satellite of the EU.
Hahaha that old myth.
Call it being a parasite on the back of the EU if you prefer. Either way it means delegating legislation to a body that you're not part of.
Same as trading with any market anywhere in the world. Want access for your products? You have to be compliant with their laws.
To say something like that is to misunderstand the difference between a free trade agreement and a single market.
I find the single currency a very interesting concept.
(i) If you share a currency you should logically share fiscal and monetary policy. Given that fiscal and monetary policy is at the heart of government this means an end to serious national autonomy.
(ii) It makes no sense whatsoever for countries who trade a lot together and have similar economies to each have their own silly little currency. That's the ultimate in pointless friction and red tape. It's nuts.
These, for me, are both true.
The latter statement is not true for me.
Different currencies don't introduce that much red tape. Indeed, these days - with contactless payments replacing cash, and with incredibly low cost transfers - it's pretty negligible.
Where firms have have issues (historically) is when they order from a company in country X, and then that country's currency appreciated, and what looked like a great deal now looks pretty awful. And while this is rarely a problem for big companies, that have treasury departments that can do hedging, it is an issue for smaller firms. Indeed, if I wasn't really busy, it would be very interesting to look at creating a business that did easy hedging for smaller companies.
I would be very interested to know if the Eurozone did boost inter-Eurozone trade. Did the single currency mean that Germans were more likely to buy from Italians and Spaniards from the Dutch?
I've experienced this on recent trips to the continent. Contactless payment is now ubiquitous, so you don't really notice that you are using a different currency. It is frictionless
In four weeks of European travel I had to use cash once, for a taxi in Switzerland, requiring me to go to an actual ATM and get out weird "Swiss Francs". I doubt that cab driver will get much business if he continues insisting on cash
For individuals, the hassle of different currencies has gone (apart from the FOREX rate obvs)
I'm not sure we've yet understood the many ramifications of the End of Cash
I’ve been to Sweden several times in recent years since joining a Swedish-based company. I have never seen, let alone touched, a Swedish kroner note or coin.
Two years ago when in Bulgaria weekly I used to get £100 or so out of a cash point at Sofia airport every 6 weeks or so.
It was what I needed to pay for the taxi from there to the hotel for that period of time. Beyond that the only money I spent was the occasional drink from the vending machine.
Four unexpected consequences of the End of Cash:
1 It gets much harder to evade or cheat the taxman. My local Moldovan car wash is still clinging on to cash (I wonder why) but the others are reluctantly succumbing to the contactless machine
2 Tipping. We've discussed this before. But what will happen to tipping in a tipping mad culture like, say, the USA? If no one carries dollar bills barkeepers will have to be given a proper wage. Finally
3 Homeless people. They are already going crazy. Begging doesn't work any more
4. Street performers. The end of busking
5. Much harder for the feckless to spend money on feckless things without their partner finding out.
Had to pay the Cattery yesterday. They don’t do technology. Cash or cheque. Usually pay cash. As we had been away for a while, I wrote a cheque. The first cheque in the chequebook was written in 2006!
The sheer amount of hatred the Labour left is demonstrating towards Keir Starmer strongly suggests whatever his faults he is at least getting something right.
Sir FIGJAM!
He's the Kevin Pietersen of British politics. Mark my word: next he'll be texting the EU advising them how to run rings around Frosty in the NI protocol negotiations.
They should pray to the Norse gods.
A Thor would sort Frost out.
I’m a’freyja you’ve done it now
Possibly. Norn of us will be able to keep up with this.
Will be interesting to see where the two sides get to with this renegotiation. Th unsquareable circle is that with the UK GB diverged from EU standards a border must go somewhere. Its also clear that the border can't go between ROI and the EU, or ROI and NI, or NI and GB.
Happily there is a solution. EU and UK remain entirely aligned. Here is the compromise - the UK drops its demands to be treated as a 3rd country and recognises that it is both aligned and going to stay aligned on the big stuff. And the EU drops its demands for a hard border as the UK GB would be treated as an extension like NI is.
That way not only do we fix the Norniron FUBAR, we can reinstate the UK as a trading zone and have hassle free access to the EEA markets. Have an agreement not to go wandering away from the existing standards and an arbitration process in case we do.
This is ridiculous. If alignment has to happen then it needs to be alignment between both sides, not the one side following the other side's rules. What needs to happen is that the UK and the EU both accept that each other will have high product standards even if they slightly differ in the detail. They allow for each others products to have full equivalency in the island of Ireland and are not to be sold commercially in GB or mainland EU. A tiny amount of products will circulate beyond Ireland through informal mechanisms but it won't have a meaningful impact and is less important than the peace process.
You miss the point. I am parking all of the bullshit and looking at practicalities. We are not talking about one side following the other side's rules. Our rules are their rules are our rules. We just need to drop the "sovrinty" spin and recognise this.
As and when there is a divergence issue in the future an arbitration process can fix them so that both parties are happy. This is the same as with any trade deal with anyone.
"If alignment has to happen" - we are already aligned!
So you voted for Brexit because you thought us having a say in the EU was too much trouble even though you were quite happy to follow its rules?
Yes. My view was that we were not and never going to agree to the political project of a single currency and a single army etc. So we either choose when to move to the outer ring of the "twin track" Europe, or they get to decide.
When you sat "Follow its rules" you reveal that you have the mentality of a small child. When you agree a trade deal you agree to follow the rules of that deal. Jaguar has to make cars for the American market that follow its rules. It has no say in those rules. Same for Chinese purveyors of spyware smartphones selling into the EEA.
We had a permanent opt out from the Euro.
You think that at some point in the future, they would have kicked us out of the European Parliament and Council and said, "From now on, you get no votes on single market legislation"?
I'm confused. According to many Brexiteers part of the reason we had to leave was that the Parliament was undemocratic, that they bullied us etc etc. To read what you posted its as if it was democratic after all and we had a significant say in its affairs.
You're deflecting. I'm not asking about why other people voted for Brexit but about why you did, and because the position you've just outlined makes no sense. If you were happy with the single market, what was the benefit of giving up our position in the institutions?
Happy with the single market - the EEA - yes. Happy with the EU, no.
The EU is not the EEA. Your problem is that you think they are the same.
The EEA is just an extension of the EU single market. The sole legislature for EEA law is the EU.
To put it another way, if every member of the EU felt like you and decided to leave and join the EEA, they would need to recreate all the political institutions again to make it work.
That is not true.
The sole authority for non EU members of the EEA is the EFTA Court. That exists outside of the EU and there is no need for any of the other political institutions if one is an EFTA member of the EEA.
That misses the point entirely. The legislation that is transposed to the EEA members comes from the EU. Having an independent court is neither here nor there.
Without the EU, there would be nothing to transpose and no single market. The EFTA court would be redundant.
In which case it would just be EFTA. I see your point but it is rather pointless. Because the original claim was about being happy being in the EEA but not in the EU. Something that is perfectly possible.
It's only possible if not everyone does it and you accept being a satellite of the EU.
Hahaha that old myth.
Call it being a parasite on the back of the EU if you prefer. Either way it means delegating legislation to a body that you're not part of.
Same as trading with any market anywhere in the world. Want access for your products? You have to be compliant with their laws.
To say something like that is to misunderstand the difference between a free trade agreement and a single market.
I find the single currency a very interesting concept.
(i) If you share a currency you should logically share fiscal and monetary policy. Given that fiscal and monetary policy is at the heart of government this means an end to serious national autonomy.
(ii) It makes no sense whatsoever for countries who trade a lot together and have similar economies to each have their own silly little currency. That's the ultimate in pointless friction and red tape. It's nuts.
These, for me, are both true.
The latter statement is not true for me.
Different currencies don't introduce that much red tape. Indeed, these days - with contactless payments replacing cash, and with incredibly low cost transfers - it's pretty negligible.
Where firms have have issues (historically) is when they order from a company in country X, and then that country's currency appreciated, and what looked like a great deal now looks pretty awful. And while this is rarely a problem for big companies, that have treasury departments that can do hedging, it is an issue for smaller firms. Indeed, if I wasn't really busy, it would be very interesting to look at creating a business that did easy hedging for smaller companies.
I would be very interested to know if the Eurozone did boost inter-Eurozone trade. Did the single currency mean that Germans were more likely to buy from Italians and Spaniards from the Dutch?
I've experienced this on recent trips to the continent. Contactless payment is now ubiquitous, so you don't really notice that you are using a different currency. It is frictionless
In four weeks of European travel I had to use cash once, for a taxi in Switzerland, requiring me to go to an actual ATM and get out weird "Swiss Francs". I doubt that cab driver will get much business if he continues insisting on cash
For individuals, the hassle of different currencies has gone (apart from the FOREX rate obvs)
I'm not sure we've yet understood the many ramifications of the End of Cash
I’ve been to Sweden several times in recent years since joining a Swedish-based company. I have never seen, let alone touched, a Swedish kroner note or coin.
Two years ago when in Bulgaria weekly I used to get £100 or so out of a cash point at Sofia airport every 6 weeks or so.
It was what I needed to pay for the taxi from there to the hotel for that period of time. Beyond that the only money I spent was the occasional drink from the vending machine.
Four unexpected consequences of the End of Cash:
1 It gets much harder to evade or cheat the taxman. My local Moldovan car wash is still clinging on to cash (I wonder why) but the others are reluctantly succumbing to the contactless machine
2 Tipping. We've discussed this before. But what will happen to tipping in a tipping mad culture like, say, the USA? If no one carries dollar bills barkeepers will have to be given a proper wage. Finally
3 Homeless people. They are already going crazy. Begging doesn't work any more
4. Street performers. The end of busking
5. Much harder for the feckless to spend money on feckless things without their partner finding out.
Had to pay the Cattery yesterday. They don’t do technology. Cash or cheque. Usually pay cash. As we had been away for a while, I wrote a cheque. The first cheque in the chequebook was written in 2006!
My bank accidentally sent me twelve cheque books about five years ago. Only used about six in the first one...
NUFC. Soon to be the wealthiest club in the Championship.
It's a good place to get back a winning mentality. That's what happened when Leicester got relegated to League 1. It was the first season that I enjoyed in years.
Will be interesting to see where the two sides get to with this renegotiation. Th unsquareable circle is that with the UK GB diverged from EU standards a border must go somewhere. Its also clear that the border can't go between ROI and the EU, or ROI and NI, or NI and GB.
Happily there is a solution. EU and UK remain entirely aligned. Here is the compromise - the UK drops its demands to be treated as a 3rd country and recognises that it is both aligned and going to stay aligned on the big stuff. And the EU drops its demands for a hard border as the UK GB would be treated as an extension like NI is.
That way not only do we fix the Norniron FUBAR, we can reinstate the UK as a trading zone and have hassle free access to the EEA markets. Have an agreement not to go wandering away from the existing standards and an arbitration process in case we do.
This is ridiculous. If alignment has to happen then it needs to be alignment between both sides, not the one side following the other side's rules. What needs to happen is that the UK and the EU both accept that each other will have high product standards even if they slightly differ in the detail. They allow for each others products to have full equivalency in the island of Ireland and are not to be sold commercially in GB or mainland EU. A tiny amount of products will circulate beyond Ireland through informal mechanisms but it won't have a meaningful impact and is less important than the peace process.
You miss the point. I am parking all of the bullshit and looking at practicalities. We are not talking about one side following the other side's rules. Our rules are their rules are our rules. We just need to drop the "sovrinty" spin and recognise this.
As and when there is a divergence issue in the future an arbitration process can fix them so that both parties are happy. This is the same as with any trade deal with anyone.
"If alignment has to happen" - we are already aligned!
So you voted for Brexit because you thought us having a say in the EU was too much trouble even though you were quite happy to follow its rules?
Yes. My view was that we were not and never going to agree to the political project of a single currency and a single army etc. So we either choose when to move to the outer ring of the "twin track" Europe, or they get to decide.
When you sat "Follow its rules" you reveal that you have the mentality of a small child. When you agree a trade deal you agree to follow the rules of that deal. Jaguar has to make cars for the American market that follow its rules. It has no say in those rules. Same for Chinese purveyors of spyware smartphones selling into the EEA.
We had a permanent opt out from the Euro.
You think that at some point in the future, they would have kicked us out of the European Parliament and Council and said, "From now on, you get no votes on single market legislation"?
I'm confused. According to many Brexiteers part of the reason we had to leave was that the Parliament was undemocratic, that they bullied us etc etc. To read what you posted its as if it was democratic after all and we had a significant say in its affairs.
You're deflecting. I'm not asking about why other people voted for Brexit but about why you did, and because the position you've just outlined makes no sense. If you were happy with the single market, what was the benefit of giving up our position in the institutions?
Happy with the single market - the EEA - yes. Happy with the EU, no.
The EU is not the EEA. Your problem is that you think they are the same.
The EEA is just an extension of the EU single market. The sole legislature for EEA law is the EU.
To put it another way, if every member of the EU felt like you and decided to leave and join the EEA, they would need to recreate all the political institutions again to make it work.
That is not true.
The sole authority for non EU members of the EEA is the EFTA Court. That exists outside of the EU and there is no need for any of the other political institutions if one is an EFTA member of the EEA.
That misses the point entirely. The legislation that is transposed to the EEA members comes from the EU. Having an independent court is neither here nor there.
Without the EU, there would be nothing to transpose and no single market. The EFTA court would be redundant.
In which case it would just be EFTA. I see your point but it is rather pointless. Because the original claim was about being happy being in the EEA but not in the EU. Something that is perfectly possible.
It's only possible if not everyone does it and you accept being a satellite of the EU.
Hahaha that old myth.
Call it being a parasite on the back of the EU if you prefer. Either way it means delegating legislation to a body that you're not part of.
Same as trading with any market anywhere in the world. Want access for your products? You have to be compliant with their laws.
To say something like that is to misunderstand the difference between a free trade agreement and a single market.
I find the single currency a very interesting concept.
(i) If you share a currency you should logically share fiscal and monetary policy. Given that fiscal and monetary policy is at the heart of government this means an end to serious national autonomy.
(ii) It makes no sense whatsoever for countries who trade a lot together and have similar economies to each have their own silly little currency. That's the ultimate in pointless friction and red tape. It's nuts.
These, for me, are both true.
The latter statement is not true for me.
Different currencies don't introduce that much red tape. Indeed, these days - with contactless payments replacing cash, and with incredibly low cost transfers - it's pretty negligible.
Where firms have have issues (historically) is when they order from a company in country X, and then that country's currency appreciated, and what looked like a great deal now looks pretty awful. And while this is rarely a problem for big companies, that have treasury departments that can do hedging, it is an issue for smaller firms. Indeed, if I wasn't really busy, it would be very interesting to look at creating a business that did easy hedging for smaller companies.
I would be very interested to know if the Eurozone did boost inter-Eurozone trade. Did the single currency mean that Germans were more likely to buy from Italians and Spaniards from the Dutch?
I've experienced this on recent trips to the continent. Contactless payment is now ubiquitous, so you don't really notice that you are using a different currency. It is frictionless
In four weeks of European travel I had to use cash once, for a taxi in Switzerland, requiring me to go to an actual ATM and get out weird "Swiss Francs". I doubt that cab driver will get much business if he continues insisting on cash
For individuals, the hassle of different currencies has gone (apart from the FOREX rate obvs)
I'm not sure we've yet understood the many ramifications of the End of Cash
I’ve been to Sweden several times in recent years since joining a Swedish-based company. I have never seen, let alone touched, a Swedish kroner note or coin.
Two years ago when in Bulgaria weekly I used to get £100 or so out of a cash point at Sofia airport every 6 weeks or so.
It was what I needed to pay for the taxi from there to the hotel for that period of time. Beyond that the only money I spent was the occasional drink from the vending machine.
Four unexpected consequences of the End of Cash:
1 It gets much harder to evade or cheat the taxman. My local Moldovan car wash is still clinging on to cash (I wonder why) but the others are reluctantly succumbing to the contactless machine
2 Tipping. We've discussed this before. But what will happen to tipping in a tipping mad culture like, say, the USA? If no one carries dollar bills barkeepers will have to be given a proper wage. Finally
3 Homeless people. They are already going crazy. Begging doesn't work any more
4. Street performers. The end of busking
5. Much harder for the feckless to spend money on feckless things without their partner finding out.
Had to pay the Cattery yesterday. They don’t do technology. Cash or cheque. Usually pay cash. As we had been away for a while, I wrote a cheque. The first cheque in the chequebook was written in 2006!
I haven’t actually needed a new cheque book since I moved to Cannock. Eight years ago.
Top Senate Democrats and Republicans said on Thursday that they had struck a deal to allow the debt ceiling to be raised through early December, temporarily staving off the threat of a first-ever default on the national debt after the G.O.P. agreed to temporarily drop its blockade of an increase.
NYTimes
I love how they always announce these things as some kind of triumph, when 'keeping government operating' is usually the base level expected of even terrible governments. I'm aware there's history to why they get to these cliff edge situations, but still.
The sheer amount of hatred the Labour left is demonstrating towards Keir Starmer strongly suggests whatever his faults he is at least getting something right.
Sir FIGJAM!
He's the Kevin Pietersen of British politics. Mark my word: next he'll be texting the EU advising them how to run rings around Frosty in the NI protocol negotiations.
They should pray to the Norse gods.
A Thor would sort Frost out.
I’m a’freyja you’ve done it now
Possibly. Norn of us will be able to keep up with this.
The sheer amount of hatred the Labour left is demonstrating towards Keir Starmer strongly suggests whatever his faults he is at least getting something right.
Sir FIGJAM!
He's the Kevin Pietersen of British politics. Mark my word: next he'll be texting the EU advising them how to run rings around Frosty in the NI protocol negotiations.
They should pray to the Norse gods.
A Thor would sort Frost out.
I’m a’freyja you’ve done it now
That may be the most ydoethur post ever to not be made by ydoethur.
Will be interesting to see where the two sides get to with this renegotiation. Th unsquareable circle is that with the UK GB diverged from EU standards a border must go somewhere. Its also clear that the border can't go between ROI and the EU, or ROI and NI, or NI and GB.
Happily there is a solution. EU and UK remain entirely aligned. Here is the compromise - the UK drops its demands to be treated as a 3rd country and recognises that it is both aligned and going to stay aligned on the big stuff. And the EU drops its demands for a hard border as the UK GB would be treated as an extension like NI is.
That way not only do we fix the Norniron FUBAR, we can reinstate the UK as a trading zone and have hassle free access to the EEA markets. Have an agreement not to go wandering away from the existing standards and an arbitration process in case we do.
This is ridiculous. If alignment has to happen then it needs to be alignment between both sides, not the one side following the other side's rules. What needs to happen is that the UK and the EU both accept that each other will have high product standards even if they slightly differ in the detail. They allow for each others products to have full equivalency in the island of Ireland and are not to be sold commercially in GB or mainland EU. A tiny amount of products will circulate beyond Ireland through informal mechanisms but it won't have a meaningful impact and is less important than the peace process.
You miss the point. I am parking all of the bullshit and looking at practicalities. We are not talking about one side following the other side's rules. Our rules are their rules are our rules. We just need to drop the "sovrinty" spin and recognise this.
As and when there is a divergence issue in the future an arbitration process can fix them so that both parties are happy. This is the same as with any trade deal with anyone.
"If alignment has to happen" - we are already aligned!
So you voted for Brexit because you thought us having a say in the EU was too much trouble even though you were quite happy to follow its rules?
Yes. My view was that we were not and never going to agree to the political project of a single currency and a single army etc. So we either choose when to move to the outer ring of the "twin track" Europe, or they get to decide.
When you sat "Follow its rules" you reveal that you have the mentality of a small child. When you agree a trade deal you agree to follow the rules of that deal. Jaguar has to make cars for the American market that follow its rules. It has no say in those rules. Same for Chinese purveyors of spyware smartphones selling into the EEA.
We had a permanent opt out from the Euro.
You think that at some point in the future, they would have kicked us out of the European Parliament and Council and said, "From now on, you get no votes on single market legislation"?
I'm confused. According to many Brexiteers part of the reason we had to leave was that the Parliament was undemocratic, that they bullied us etc etc. To read what you posted its as if it was democratic after all and we had a significant say in its affairs.
You're deflecting. I'm not asking about why other people voted for Brexit but about why you did, and because the position you've just outlined makes no sense. If you were happy with the single market, what was the benefit of giving up our position in the institutions?
Happy with the single market - the EEA - yes. Happy with the EU, no.
The EU is not the EEA. Your problem is that you think they are the same.
The EEA is just an extension of the EU single market. The sole legislature for EEA law is the EU.
To put it another way, if every member of the EU felt like you and decided to leave and join the EEA, they would need to recreate all the political institutions again to make it work.
That is not true.
The sole authority for non EU members of the EEA is the EFTA Court. That exists outside of the EU and there is no need for any of the other political institutions if one is an EFTA member of the EEA.
That misses the point entirely. The legislation that is transposed to the EEA members comes from the EU. Having an independent court is neither here nor there.
Without the EU, there would be nothing to transpose and no single market. The EFTA court would be redundant.
In which case it would just be EFTA. I see your point but it is rather pointless. Because the original claim was about being happy being in the EEA but not in the EU. Something that is perfectly possible.
It's only possible if not everyone does it and you accept being a satellite of the EU.
Hahaha that old myth.
Call it being a parasite on the back of the EU if you prefer. Either way it means delegating legislation to a body that you're not part of.
Same as trading with any market anywhere in the world. Want access for your products? You have to be compliant with their laws.
To say something like that is to misunderstand the difference between a free trade agreement and a single market.
I find the single currency a very interesting concept.
(i) If you share a currency you should logically share fiscal and monetary policy. Given that fiscal and monetary policy is at the heart of government this means an end to serious national autonomy.
(ii) It makes no sense whatsoever for countries who trade a lot together and have similar economies to each have their own silly little currency. That's the ultimate in pointless friction and red tape. It's nuts.
These, for me, are both true.
The latter statement is not true for me.
Different currencies don't introduce that much red tape. Indeed, these days - with contactless payments replacing cash, and with incredibly low cost transfers - it's pretty negligible.
Where firms have have issues (historically) is when they order from a company in country X, and then that country's currency appreciated, and what looked like a great deal now looks pretty awful. And while this is rarely a problem for big companies, that have treasury departments that can do hedging, it is an issue for smaller firms. Indeed, if I wasn't really busy, it would be very interesting to look at creating a business that did easy hedging for smaller companies.
I would be very interested to know if the Eurozone did boost inter-Eurozone trade. Did the single currency mean that Germans were more likely to buy from Italians and Spaniards from the Dutch?
I've experienced this on recent trips to the continent. Contactless payment is now ubiquitous, so you don't really notice that you are using a different currency. It is frictionless
In four weeks of European travel I had to use cash once, for a taxi in Switzerland, requiring me to go to an actual ATM and get out weird "Swiss Francs". I doubt that cab driver will get much business if he continues insisting on cash
For individuals, the hassle of different currencies has gone (apart from the FOREX rate obvs)
I'm not sure we've yet understood the many ramifications of the End of Cash
I’ve been to Sweden several times in recent years since joining a Swedish-based company. I have never seen, let alone touched, a Swedish kroner note or coin.
Two years ago when in Bulgaria weekly I used to get £100 or so out of a cash point at Sofia airport every 6 weeks or so.
It was what I needed to pay for the taxi from there to the hotel for that period of time. Beyond that the only money I spent was the occasional drink from the vending machine.
Four unexpected consequences of the End of Cash:
1 It gets much harder to evade or cheat the taxman. My local Moldovan car wash is still clinging on to cash (I wonder why) but the others are reluctantly succumbing to the contactless machine
2 Tipping. We've discussed this before. But what will happen to tipping in a tipping mad culture like, say, the USA? If no one carries dollar bills barkeepers will have to be given a proper wage. Finally
3 Homeless people. They are already going crazy. Begging doesn't work any more
4. Street performers. The end of busking
5. Much harder for the feckless to spend money on feckless things without their partner finding out.
Had to pay the Cattery yesterday. They don’t do technology. Cash or cheque. Usually pay cash. As we had been away for a while, I wrote a cheque. The first cheque in the chequebook was written in 2006!
I haven’t actually needed a new cheque book since I moved to Cannock. Eight years ago.
Cheques are great.
I use them to pay bills when the supplier has irritated me
The sheer amount of hatred the Labour left is demonstrating towards Keir Starmer strongly suggests whatever his faults he is at least getting something right.
Sir FIGJAM!
He's the Kevin Pietersen of British politics. Mark my word: next he'll be texting the EU advising them how to run rings around Frosty in the NI protocol negotiations.
They should pray to the Norse gods.
A Thor would sort Frost out.
I’m a’freyja you’ve done it now
Possibly. Norn of us will be able to keep up with this.
The sheer amount of hatred the Labour left is demonstrating towards Keir Starmer strongly suggests whatever his faults he is at least getting something right.
Sir FIGJAM!
He's the Kevin Pietersen of British politics. Mark my word: next he'll be texting the EU advising them how to run rings around Frosty in the NI protocol negotiations.
They should pray to the Norse gods.
A Thor would sort Frost out.
I’m a’freyja you’ve done it now
Possibly. Norn of us will be able to keep up with this.
The sheer amount of hatred the Labour left is demonstrating towards Keir Starmer strongly suggests whatever his faults he is at least getting something right.
Sir FIGJAM!
He's the Kevin Pietersen of British politics. Mark my word: next he'll be texting the EU advising them how to run rings around Frosty in the NI protocol negotiations.
They should pray to the Norse gods.
A Thor would sort Frost out.
I’m a’freyja you’ve done it now
Possibly. Norn of us will be able to keep up with this.
The sheer amount of hatred the Labour left is demonstrating towards Keir Starmer strongly suggests whatever his faults he is at least getting something right.
Sir FIGJAM!
He's the Kevin Pietersen of British politics. Mark my word: next he'll be texting the EU advising them how to run rings around Frosty in the NI protocol negotiations.
They should pray to the Norse gods.
A Thor would sort Frost out.
I’m a’freyja you’ve done it now
Possibly. Norn of us will be able to keep up with this.
Exc: Jake Sullivan, US national security adviser, has warned the British government that suspending the Northern Ireland protocol to the Brexit deal would be a “serious risk to stability” and “of serious concern to the United States”. https://twitter.com/BBCJLandale/status/1446206325252296710
Exc: Jake Sullivan, US national security adviser, has warned the British government that suspending the Northern Ireland protocol to the Brexit deal would be a “serious risk to stability” and “of serious concern to the United States”. https://twitter.com/BBCJLandale/status/1446206325252296710
It’s a good thing that Article 16 is an integral part of the protocol then.
Will be interesting to see where the two sides get to with this renegotiation. Th unsquareable circle is that with the UK GB diverged from EU standards a border must go somewhere. Its also clear that the border can't go between ROI and the EU, or ROI and NI, or NI and GB.
Happily there is a solution. EU and UK remain entirely aligned. Here is the compromise - the UK drops its demands to be treated as a 3rd country and recognises that it is both aligned and going to stay aligned on the big stuff. And the EU drops its demands for a hard border as the UK GB would be treated as an extension like NI is.
That way not only do we fix the Norniron FUBAR, we can reinstate the UK as a trading zone and have hassle free access to the EEA markets. Have an agreement not to go wandering away from the existing standards and an arbitration process in case we do.
This is ridiculous. If alignment has to happen then it needs to be alignment between both sides, not the one side following the other side's rules. What needs to happen is that the UK and the EU both accept that each other will have high product standards even if they slightly differ in the detail. They allow for each others products to have full equivalency in the island of Ireland and are not to be sold commercially in GB or mainland EU. A tiny amount of products will circulate beyond Ireland through informal mechanisms but it won't have a meaningful impact and is less important than the peace process.
You miss the point. I am parking all of the bullshit and looking at practicalities. We are not talking about one side following the other side's rules. Our rules are their rules are our rules. We just need to drop the "sovrinty" spin and recognise this.
As and when there is a divergence issue in the future an arbitration process can fix them so that both parties are happy. This is the same as with any trade deal with anyone.
"If alignment has to happen" - we are already aligned!
So you voted for Brexit because you thought us having a say in the EU was too much trouble even though you were quite happy to follow its rules?
Yes. My view was that we were not and never going to agree to the political project of a single currency and a single army etc. So we either choose when to move to the outer ring of the "twin track" Europe, or they get to decide.
When you sat "Follow its rules" you reveal that you have the mentality of a small child. When you agree a trade deal you agree to follow the rules of that deal. Jaguar has to make cars for the American market that follow its rules. It has no say in those rules. Same for Chinese purveyors of spyware smartphones selling into the EEA.
We had a permanent opt out from the Euro.
You think that at some point in the future, they would have kicked us out of the European Parliament and Council and said, "From now on, you get no votes on single market legislation"?
I'm confused. According to many Brexiteers part of the reason we had to leave was that the Parliament was undemocratic, that they bullied us etc etc. To read what you posted its as if it was democratic after all and we had a significant say in its affairs.
You're deflecting. I'm not asking about why other people voted for Brexit but about why you did, and because the position you've just outlined makes no sense. If you were happy with the single market, what was the benefit of giving up our position in the institutions?
Happy with the single market - the EEA - yes. Happy with the EU, no.
The EU is not the EEA. Your problem is that you think they are the same.
The EEA is just an extension of the EU single market. The sole legislature for EEA law is the EU.
To put it another way, if every member of the EU felt like you and decided to leave and join the EEA, they would need to recreate all the political institutions again to make it work.
That is not true.
The sole authority for non EU members of the EEA is the EFTA Court. That exists outside of the EU and there is no need for any of the other political institutions if one is an EFTA member of the EEA.
That misses the point entirely. The legislation that is transposed to the EEA members comes from the EU. Having an independent court is neither here nor there.
Without the EU, there would be nothing to transpose and no single market. The EFTA court would be redundant.
In which case it would just be EFTA. I see your point but it is rather pointless. Because the original claim was about being happy being in the EEA but not in the EU. Something that is perfectly possible.
It's only possible if not everyone does it and you accept being a satellite of the EU.
Hahaha that old myth.
Call it being a parasite on the back of the EU if you prefer. Either way it means delegating legislation to a body that you're not part of.
Same as trading with any market anywhere in the world. Want access for your products? You have to be compliant with their laws.
To say something like that is to misunderstand the difference between a free trade agreement and a single market.
I find the single currency a very interesting concept.
(i) If you share a currency you should logically share fiscal and monetary policy. Given that fiscal and monetary policy is at the heart of government this means an end to serious national autonomy.
(ii) It makes no sense whatsoever for countries who trade a lot together and have similar economies to each have their own silly little currency. That's the ultimate in pointless friction and red tape. It's nuts.
These, for me, are both true.
The latter statement is not true for me.
Different currencies don't introduce that much red tape. Indeed, these days - with contactless payments replacing cash, and with incredibly low cost transfers - it's pretty negligible.
Where firms have have issues (historically) is when they order from a company in country X, and then that country's currency appreciated, and what looked like a great deal now looks pretty awful. And while this is rarely a problem for big companies, that have treasury departments that can do hedging, it is an issue for smaller firms. Indeed, if I wasn't really busy, it would be very interesting to look at creating a business that did easy hedging for smaller companies.
I would be very interested to know if the Eurozone did boost inter-Eurozone trade. Did the single currency mean that Germans were more likely to buy from Italians and Spaniards from the Dutch?
I've experienced this on recent trips to the continent. Contactless payment is now ubiquitous, so you don't really notice that you are using a different currency. It is frictionless
In four weeks of European travel I had to use cash once, for a taxi in Switzerland, requiring me to go to an actual ATM and get out weird "Swiss Francs". I doubt that cab driver will get much business if he continues insisting on cash
For individuals, the hassle of different currencies has gone (apart from the FOREX rate obvs)
I'm not sure we've yet understood the many ramifications of the End of Cash
I’ve been to Sweden several times in recent years since joining a Swedish-based company. I have never seen, let alone touched, a Swedish kroner note or coin.
Two years ago when in Bulgaria weekly I used to get £100 or so out of a cash point at Sofia airport every 6 weeks or so.
It was what I needed to pay for the taxi from there to the hotel for that period of time. Beyond that the only money I spent was the occasional drink from the vending machine.
Four unexpected consequences of the End of Cash:
1 It gets much harder to evade or cheat the taxman. My local Moldovan car wash is still clinging on to cash (I wonder why) but the others are reluctantly succumbing to the contactless machine
2 Tipping. We've discussed this before. But what will happen to tipping in a tipping mad culture like, say, the USA? If no one carries dollar bills barkeepers will have to be given a proper wage. Finally
3 Homeless people. They are already going crazy. Begging doesn't work any more
4. Street performers. The end of busking
5. Much harder for the feckless to spend money on feckless things without their partner finding out.
Indeed. I've just realised, in addition, that the end of cash is probably going to be great for Treasuries. So much tax evasion becomes impossible, black economies will shrink, tax revenues will surge
My dad employed lots of labourers. He preferred paying them by cheque, as it meant not dealing with cash. About a third to a half wanted cash, paid weekly. Not because they did not trust my dad (some had worked with him for decades); but because if they got paid by cheque, their spouses/gfs might know what they're earning.
Even more oddly. the reason some wanted paying weekly is that they knew they'd spend their money in five or six days, knowing they'd have a lean day before payday. If they got paid monthly, they'd have a lean week or two. This wasn't due to poor pay (my dad paid above the average because of the type of work); it was because they could not budget. Some would leave site after payday, go to the nearest pub (a large site had one just outside), and spend much of their earnings.
I wonder how such people are going to manage now.
Many years ago I was an Assistant Accountant for an Engineering company in Glasgow. At busy times, such as before the Glasgow Fair, I helped in the Wages Department. I found out that some of the staff had a regular deduction to the local savings bank. I was paid into their account on Thursday and withdrawn on Friday for drinking tokens. The pay packet could therefore be handed over to the boss intact,
Exc: Jake Sullivan, US national security adviser, has warned the British government that suspending the Northern Ireland protocol to the Brexit deal would be a “serious risk to stability” and “of serious concern to the United States”. https://twitter.com/BBCJLandale/status/1446206325252296710
It’s a good thing that Article 16 is an integral part of the protocol then.
I do have a problem with those whole business, in that I have grave doubts around this government's judgement of what would be an appropriate action, but it does seem unreasonable that using a provision which exists is implied to be inherently unreasonable as an action.
Even when the EU were contemplating it it surely wasn't that they did it that was the issue, it was whether it was justified. And the UK might not be justified in doing it, but that case does not get made by suggesting use of a legal provision is unthinkable. It was presumably put there for a reason.
Polish court rules that EU law is not compatible with the country's constitution and asserts primacy of Polish law, and says EU cannot intervene in Polish judicial system.
This is a major escalation of the rule of law crisis between Warsaw and Brussels
The Orwell article on nationalism that was shared earlier was *really* excellent. Everybody on here should read it - and probably reflect on how we're all guilty of some of the logical fallacies he identifies.
Orwell's problem, I'm afraid, is he just wasn't very bright. Lots of what he says is true, but in that essay he fails to detect in himself the exact thing he is on about. GKC bad, because Orwell is not a Catholic; Celtic nationalism bad but bloody hell look at this: "One symptom of it is the delusion that Eire, Scotland or even Wales could preserve its independence unaided and owes nothing to British protection." Scott Alexander at least recognises his own liability to outgroupism.
So true.
The writer of Animal Farm, of 1984, of The Road to Wigan Pier, of Down & Out in London and Paris, of Homage to Catalonia, was clearly a borderline idiot.
I doubt he could even tie his own shoelaces.
Not a cracking point. It is universally conceded that Tennyson was as dim as a Toc H lamp, for instance, without that affecting his status as a great poet. Orwell could say things unbelievably lucidly, but they weren't necessarily very complicated or interesting things. It's not an accident that what you list are o level rather than a level texts. I challenge you to point to a really complex argument put forward by him.
Profound truths may actually be quite simple.
Agreed absolutely. But the rare and excellent ability to pronounce them is not the same thing as intelligence. There's no particular reason that Shakespeare would be better than you or me at writing a Times leader or advancing a complex case in court.
lol
Personally, I think the ability to write, say, "Hamlet", "Othello", the Sonnets, "King Lear", "Macbeth", "A Midsummer Might's Dream" and "Romeo and Juliet" is probably a sign of greater intelligence than the ability to "write a Times leader" or "advance a complex case in court"
Indeed, the few court lawyers I know all stress how presenting a good case is really just storytelling. And simplifying down to just one or two points, not the entire kitchen sink. But what would Shakespeare know about storytelling?
I am a former court lawyer, and it isn't.
Any half decent judge could tell the difference between truth and shite, however well presented.
The NI rise (or HSC levy) hits everyone in the pocket, and this is just before much higher energy prices hit and council tax rises in the spring.
The Government will be as popular as syphilis.
As I keep saying wait for the budget and if Rishi does not assist those in financial pain then the conservatives are not going to retain their poll lead
However, whoever is in power has to pay for covid and climate change and deal with worldwide energy rises
This is the perfect storm and if labour cannot gain as a result then they may as well give up
Further to my Fuel Buying Panic Encouragers (see what I did there?) posts earlier, could any 'empty shelvers' reading here please reflect a bit longer before shouting about their current hobbyhorse?
Polish court rules that EU law is not compatible with the country's constitution and asserts primacy of Polish law, and says EU cannot intervene in Polish judicial system.
This is a major escalation of the rule of law crisis between Warsaw and Brussels
The Orwell article on nationalism that was shared earlier was *really* excellent. Everybody on here should read it - and probably reflect on how we're all guilty of some of the logical fallacies he identifies.
Orwell's problem, I'm afraid, is he just wasn't very bright. Lots of what he says is true, but in that essay he fails to detect in himself the exact thing he is on about. GKC bad, because Orwell is not a Catholic; Celtic nationalism bad but bloody hell look at this: "One symptom of it is the delusion that Eire, Scotland or even Wales could preserve its independence unaided and owes nothing to British protection." Scott Alexander at least recognises his own liability to outgroupism.
So true.
The writer of Animal Farm, of 1984, of The Road to Wigan Pier, of Down & Out in London and Paris, of Homage to Catalonia, was clearly a borderline idiot.
I doubt he could even tie his own shoelaces.
Not a cracking point. It is universally conceded that Tennyson was as dim as a Toc H lamp, for instance, without that affecting his status as a great poet. Orwell could say things unbelievably lucidly, but they weren't necessarily very complicated or interesting things. It's not an accident that what you list are o level rather than a level texts. I challenge you to point to a really complex argument put forward by him.
Profound truths may actually be quite simple.
Agreed absolutely. But the rare and excellent ability to pronounce them is not the same thing as intelligence. There's no particular reason that Shakespeare would be better than you or me at writing a Times leader or advancing a complex case in court.
lol
Personally, I think the ability to write, say, "Hamlet", "Othello", the Sonnets, "King Lear", "Macbeth", "A Midsummer Might's Dream" and "Romeo and Juliet" is probably a sign of greater intelligence than the ability to "write a Times leader" or "advance a complex case in court"
Indeed, the few court lawyers I know all stress how presenting a good case is really just storytelling. And simplifying down to just one or two points, not the entire kitchen sink. But what would Shakespeare know about storytelling?
I am a former court lawyer, and it isn't.
Any half decent judge could tell the difference between truth and shite, however well presented.
Um, robustly put, but I think that what goes on in courts is less similar to courtroom dramas on telly than you think it is.
Exc: Jake Sullivan, US national security adviser, has warned the British government that suspending the Northern Ireland protocol to the Brexit deal would be a “serious risk to stability” and “of serious concern to the United States”. https://twitter.com/BBCJLandale/status/1446206325252296710
Boris firmly pinned his colours to the Biden mast with AUUKUS. Uncle Joe now gets a massive say on how Brexit and Northern Ireland develops and Boris will just have to go along with it. I think some kind of radical regulatory alignment of all of the UK and the EU - Theresa's Deal mk II - is very much on the cards. Boris won't mind too much - he won his election, Farage is fading and Labour are nowhere - and it'll probably save him a lot of grief in the long run.
James Melville @JamesMelville · 2h Sweden 🇸🇪 has dropped to 50th in the ranking of total Covid deaths per capita since the pandemic began. Almost every other country ranked above Sweden had lockdowns, mask mandates and draconian restrictions. Sweden meanwhile, largely kept its society open and freedoms intact.
Sweden's 3rd wave is truly mesmerising. Cases and ICU levels equal to their devestating second wave yet a fraction of the deaths.
I don't understand why this isn't the only topic of Covid conversation.
Its the ICU levels being just as bad without the commensurate deaths that gets me.
I'd like to hear what some of our liberal-left regulars love about England?
It would be nice to find some common ground.
I love its niche sub-cultures.
I am not a scooterist, but seeing the scooter festival on the Isle of Wight in all its eccentricity in August is a real pleasure.
It's eccentricities and hobbies?
I like that too. I think Bill Bryson said the same.
August Bank Holiday weekend we always go there. The scooters come the same weekend, mostly camping, and in scooter clubs from all over the country. It's like a middle aged Quadrophenia, with Northen Soul all nighters and everything. On the Sunday there is the big ride, which takes over an hour to pass and draws the crowds.
It is a whole niche lifestyle, and whether it is dog shows, Morris dancing, music festivals, or Royalist super fans, one of the great enjoyments of being English is having these enthusiasts groups to join, ignore or even take the mickey from. The great thing about being English is the diversity of ways of being English.
I found living in America and New Zealand much more conformist.
Exc: Jake Sullivan, US national security adviser, has warned the British government that suspending the Northern Ireland protocol to the Brexit deal would be a “serious risk to stability” and “of serious concern to the United States”. https://twitter.com/BBCJLandale/status/1446206325252296710
Boris firmly pinned his colours to the Biden mast with AUUKUS. Uncle Joe now gets a massive say on how Brexit and Northern Ireland develops and Boris will just have to go along with it. I think some kind of radical regulatory alignment of all of the UK and the EU - Theresa's Deal mk II - is very much on the cards. Boris won't mind too much - he won his election, Farage is fading and Labour are nowhere - and it'll probably save him a lot of grief in the long run.
Not only do you continually get AUKUS wrong but the NI protocol and A16 is part of the UK - EU agreement and the EU are entering negotiations to resolve issues
The sheer amount of hatred the Labour left is demonstrating towards Keir Starmer strongly suggests whatever his faults he is at least getting something right.
Sir FIGJAM!
He's the Kevin Pietersen of British politics. Mark my word: next he'll be texting the EU advising them how to run rings around Frosty in the NI protocol negotiations.
They should pray to the Norse gods.
A Thor would sort Frost out.
I’m a’freyja you’ve done it now
Possibly. Norn of us will be able to keep up with this.
James Melville @JamesMelville · 2h Sweden 🇸🇪 has dropped to 50th in the ranking of total Covid deaths per capita since the pandemic began. Almost every other country ranked above Sweden had lockdowns, mask mandates and draconian restrictions. Sweden meanwhile, largely kept its society open and freedoms intact.
Sweden's 3rd wave is truly mesmerising. Cases and ICU levels equal to their devestating second wave yet a fraction of the deaths.
I don't understand why this isn't the only topic of Covid conversation.
Its the ICU levels being just as bad without the commensurate deaths that gets me.
The problem with that is that Sweden has a very low population density, which is a big factor in numbers of cases and deaths.
if you compare Sweden's death rate against the other Nordics it doesn't looks so good
Sweden 1,460 per million Denmark 459 Finland 191 Norway 159 Iceland 96
Exc: Jake Sullivan, US national security adviser, has warned the British government that suspending the Northern Ireland protocol to the Brexit deal would be a “serious risk to stability” and “of serious concern to the United States”. https://twitter.com/BBCJLandale/status/1446206325252296710
Boris firmly pinned his colours to the Biden mast with AUUKUS. Uncle Joe now gets a massive say on how Brexit and Northern Ireland develops and Boris will just have to go along with it. I think some kind of radical regulatory alignment of all of the UK and the EU - Theresa's Deal mk II - is very much on the cards. Boris won't mind too much - he won his election, Farage is fading and Labour are nowhere - and it'll probably save him a lot of grief in the long run.
Given that Johnson has recognised that a US-UK trade deal is some ways down the road, he may be prepared to sit out the fallout of reneging on the protocol and pinning his hopes on a Trump return in 2024. But that would be to discount the extent to which Irish-American support for the GFA is bi-partisan
Polish court rules that EU law is not compatible with the country's constitution and asserts primacy of Polish law, and says EU cannot intervene in Polish judicial system.
This is a major escalation of the rule of law crisis between Warsaw and Brussels
The Orwell article on nationalism that was shared earlier was *really* excellent. Everybody on here should read it - and probably reflect on how we're all guilty of some of the logical fallacies he identifies.
Orwell's problem, I'm afraid, is he just wasn't very bright. Lots of what he says is true, but in that essay he fails to detect in himself the exact thing he is on about. GKC bad, because Orwell is not a Catholic; Celtic nationalism bad but bloody hell look at this: "One symptom of it is the delusion that Eire, Scotland or even Wales could preserve its independence unaided and owes nothing to British protection." Scott Alexander at least recognises his own liability to outgroupism.
So true.
The writer of Animal Farm, of 1984, of The Road to Wigan Pier, of Down & Out in London and Paris, of Homage to Catalonia, was clearly a borderline idiot.
I doubt he could even tie his own shoelaces.
Not a cracking point. It is universally conceded that Tennyson was as dim as a Toc H lamp, for instance, without that affecting his status as a great poet. Orwell could say things unbelievably lucidly, but they weren't necessarily very complicated or interesting things. It's not an accident that what you list are o level rather than a level texts. I challenge you to point to a really complex argument put forward by him.
Profound truths may actually be quite simple.
Agreed absolutely. But the rare and excellent ability to pronounce them is not the same thing as intelligence. There's no particular reason that Shakespeare would be better than you or me at writing a Times leader or advancing a complex case in court.
lol
Personally, I think the ability to write, say, "Hamlet", "Othello", the Sonnets, "King Lear", "Macbeth", "A Midsummer Might's Dream" and "Romeo and Juliet" is probably a sign of greater intelligence than the ability to "write a Times leader" or "advance a complex case in court"
Indeed, the few court lawyers I know all stress how presenting a good case is really just storytelling. And simplifying down to just one or two points, not the entire kitchen sink. But what would Shakespeare know about storytelling?
I am a former court lawyer, and it isn't.
What is it, in your view? How do you sway a jury? And, no, I won't accept facts and points of law as the answer. They may be a sine qua non, but perhaps not even that.
When choosing a jury, how do the lawyers figure out who will be convinced by shite and who will work out the truth?
James Melville @JamesMelville · 2h Sweden 🇸🇪 has dropped to 50th in the ranking of total Covid deaths per capita since the pandemic began. Almost every other country ranked above Sweden had lockdowns, mask mandates and draconian restrictions. Sweden meanwhile, largely kept its society open and freedoms intact.
Sweden's 3rd wave is truly mesmerising. Cases and ICU levels equal to their devestating second wave yet a fraction of the deaths.
I don't understand why this isn't the only topic of Covid conversation.
Its the ICU levels being just as bad without the commensurate deaths that gets me.
The problem with that is that Sweden has a very low population density, which is a big factor in numbers of cases and deaths.
if you compare Sweden's death rate against the other Nordics it doesn't looks so good
Sweden 1,460 per million Denmark 459 Finland 191 Norway 159 Iceland 96
Oh yeah, compared to its peers Sweden absolutely fucked it. But when it's 3rd wave started forming it looked like it was going to be devestating and yet it wasn't really.
I mean it wasn't great but given the level of ICU admissions and occupancy you would have expected deaths to peak high once again and instead they bumbled along at levels similar to what the UK is having how.
I have enormous respect for the UK Supreme Court which when you see what’s happened to the US Supreme Court , we should be hugely relieved that judges aren’t politically appointed in the UK . It was very disturbing to see some within the Tory party threatening the court just because they made judgements the government didn’t like .
Still an English court deciding Scottish Law matters, all wrong and very colonial.
It isn't an "English" court you absolute numpty. It is a UK court. You really make yourself look very foolish and ignorant on this "colony" crap as well. I will write it for you again and you can read it very slowly.
Scots were massively enthusiastic colonialists. Since the Act of Union they have always been massively over represented in the British establishment and still are today. You also may want to look up a Scottish family called "The Stewarts". They ruled once England would you believe?!
Wasn't the presiding judge also a Scot?
Not sure, but my understanding is that by convention there has to be 2 Scottish judges and one from NI. I suppose if one is as prejudiced and blinkered as Malc you would probably find some English lineage in them to discredit their tartan credentials
No English here you F***witted cretin, Scottish and Irish
I have enormous respect for the UK Supreme Court which when you see what’s happened to the US Supreme Court , we should be hugely relieved that judges aren’t politically appointed in the UK . It was very disturbing to see some within the Tory party threatening the court just because they made judgements the government didn’t like .
Still an English court deciding Scottish Law matters, all wrong and very colonial.
It is a UK court with a Scottish judge announcing their decision
One lickspittle Toom tabard does not make it right, it is an English court judging Scottish law. It further confirms that Scotland is being treated purely as a colony of England.
The decision is by Lord Reed who is, of course, both a Scot and the President of the Court. Amongst the judges who concur in his decision is one of his Deputy Presidents, Lord Hodge, another Scot and a rather brilliant one at that.
To a certain extent Malcolm you are right. What this decision confirms beyond a shadow of a doubt is that the Scottish Parliament does not have sovereignty, is not in the process of acquiring such sovereignty and that the scope of both its powers and that of the Scottish government are fixed by the Scotland Act as amended. Any who were deluded enough to pretend otherwise should be so no longer.
The irony of course being that if Scotland hadn't been too frit to vote Yes in 2014 then Lord Reed and Lord Hodge might be presiding over a Supreme Court of Scotland right now.
The issue for malcolm is that Scots voted No last time so Scotland isn't an actual independent country as a result of that vote. The people making the ruling isn't the issue.
We were not frit, we were British and proud of it.
I see La Sturgeon is in the FT today (££), talking of indy, and airily saying "time is on my side" as she points to younger voters being more pro-independence, and hints at older NO-voters dying off
She maybe has a point, but these are not the words of a leader really pushing for a vote.
The article also hints at her being weaker than she was, politically
She undoubtedly is and the likes of @malcolmg is one of the reasons why. She is being consistently attacked by the more rabid end of the independence movement and is finding it a deeply uncomfortable experience. I think if she had found in international sinecure she would have been off by now. As it is her government looks increasingly directionless, reluctant to do anything that would annoy any part of the population yet too scared to really push the idea of Indyref2.
She is totally useless, a gravy train devolutionist but not lickspittles like the English supreme court Colonial Judges bought and sold toom tabards.
Comments
Steve Bruce is 1/5 to be the next manager out.
EDIT: And Newcastle out to 5/2 to be relegated, having been around evens a few days ago.
(I am 1000% sure this joke will already have been made)
It would be nice to find some common ground.
You are truly *googles deities* Fulla nonsense.
I use them to pay bills when the supplier has irritated me
I am not a scooterist, but seeing the scooter festival on the Isle of Wight in all its eccentricity in August is a real pleasure.
Can't say they weren't warned:
Anyway, our beer.
No, not that way!
https://twitter.com/BBCJLandale/status/1446206325252296710
The Government will be as popular as syphilis.
I like that too. I think Bill Bryson said the same.
That Boris Johnson would do profoundly unConservative things.
https://www7.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2019/08/07/the-conservative-party-is-pursuing-profoundly-un-conservative-policies-so-ive-left-it/
The mix of cultures that mean you get a diverse range of quality food that you often don’t see in any a lot of nations.
Our live music and arts.
Our comedy, both professional and our mocking/sarcastic humour amongst friends that would be considered rude elsewhere.
Rugby and cricket.
Even when the EU were contemplating it it surely wasn't that they did it that was the issue, it was whether it was justified. And the UK might not be justified in doing it, but that case does not get made by suggesting use of a legal provision is unthinkable. It was presumably put there for a reason.
However, whoever is in power has to pay for covid and climate change and deal with worldwide energy rises
This is the perfect storm and if labour cannot gain as a result then they may as well give up
I don't understand why this isn't the only topic of Covid conversation.
Its the ICU levels being just as bad without the commensurate deaths that gets me.
The Jerome K Jerome Society.
The Alan Rawsthorne Society.
An entire journal published regularly devoted to Philip Larkin.
The Lancashire Parish Register Society.
Wisden.
Everyone in England is completely insane about some completely random thing.
It is a whole niche lifestyle, and whether it is dog shows, Morris dancing, music festivals, or Royalist super fans, one of the great enjoyments of being English is having these enthusiasts groups to join, ignore or even take the mickey from. The great thing about being English is the diversity of ways of being English.
I found living in America and New Zealand much more conformist.
May's deal died long ago and is not coming back
https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1446123295904993284
https://hardware.slashdot.org/story/21/10/07/1547245/robots-take-over-italys-vineyards-as-wineries-struggle-with-covid-19-worker-shortages
(Insert “Because of Brexit” joke here).
NEW THREAD
https://youtu.be/gS7azWcJmmg
if you compare Sweden's death rate against the other Nordics it doesn't looks so good
Sweden 1,460 per million
Denmark 459
Finland 191
Norway 159
Iceland 96
He didn’t lose a single seat, He lost 40!^
I mean it wasn't great but given the level of ICU admissions and occupancy you would have expected deaths to peak high once again and instead they bumbled along at levels similar to what the UK is having how.