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If you think Brexit is going very well then you’re in a small minority – politicalbetting.com

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  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,021
    ydoethur said:

    Farooq said:

    Nigelb said:

    felix said:

    Lol.


    Fun that the loudest shouts for needing fuel are coming from London and SE England. You know, that place where they have a vast tube, railway, bus, taxi and Uber network.

    I'm so old I remember when kids walked to school on their own.

    Incredible I know.
    {Yorkshire Accent Loading....}

    Riiiiiiiiiight!

    {Opens bottle of Chateau de Chassilier}

    When I was a lad......
    Were.

    Please.
    We was too poor to afford the word "were" - vowels was extra.
    Course, that was before the "y" was used as a vowel. In my day, we made do with just the five vowels. But try telling children these days..
    Just as well for you you’re not Welsh. We have seven vowels.
    Rampant vowel inflation. I blame the Labour government.
  • dixiedean said:

    The message I got from the Boris interview is that the government are actively creating inflation. Higher wages,higher taxes on employment, companies, lots of new taxes, more spending by government.

    This would also indicate higher interest rates.

    Will this hit prior to the next general election?

    Except. As I have pointed out, in the only bit they are directly responsible for, the Public Sector.
    Here, they are intent on enforcing well below inflation rises. With higher taxes.
    Is a wave of strikes the next Culture War plan? Cos it seems likely.
    Never put down to malice what can be explained by stupidity, I guess.

    But someone needs to ask the government if the "high wage" thing applies to people employed by the government.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,307
    dixiedean said:

    Toms said:

    Toms said:

    felix said:

    Lol.


    Fun that the loudest shouts for needing fuel are coming from London and SE England. You know, that place where they have a vast tube, railway, bus, taxi and Uber network.

    Those households that have two or more cars: do they concentrate their fuel hoarding worries on one car or do they multiply them by a factor??
    We have 2 cars but my wife only does about 160 miles a year !!!!!
    When I grew up we had one car (renewed every ten years or so) and we three boys could use it too as we got our licenses. He never cleaned it having better things to do and knowing full well that it was just a tool and anyway rotting from inside and underneath.

    P/S We walked to school. I believe many kids still do there.
    From secondary, many children in London take public transport, if they can't walk to school.

    There is a whole thing about arranging with friends, who is going to be in which Tube carriage...
    Around half, including First School, are bussed in round here. Quite a number walk.
    Near me, there is a small park. In the mornings, there is a whole row of mini buses/min coaches (5 or 6 of them( taking children to the various private schools. Some are quite a distance away.

    Yet, I remember people saying that school buses were impossible in this country.....
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,307

    dixiedean said:

    The message I got from the Boris interview is that the government are actively creating inflation. Higher wages,higher taxes on employment, companies, lots of new taxes, more spending by government.

    This would also indicate higher interest rates.

    Will this hit prior to the next general election?

    Except. As I have pointed out, in the only bit they are directly responsible for, the Public Sector.
    Here, they are intent on enforcing well below inflation rises. With higher taxes.
    Is a wave of strikes the next Culture War plan? Cos it seems likely.
    Never put down to malice what can be explained by stupidity, I guess.

    But someone needs to ask the government if the "high wage" thing applies to people employed by the government.
    It's a cunning wheeze to shrink government....
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,559
    O/T

    Radio 4 news is talking to voters in the Chipping Barnet constituency, and the reporter visited the Bayleaf Restaurant in Whetstone to talk to the owner, which happens to be number 12 out of 17,239 places in London according to TripAdvisor.

    https://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Restaurant_Review-g186338-d5856902-Reviews-Bayleaf_Restaurant-London_England.html
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175

    dixiedean said:

    The message I got from the Boris interview is that the government are actively creating inflation. Higher wages,higher taxes on employment, companies, lots of new taxes, more spending by government.

    This would also indicate higher interest rates.

    Will this hit prior to the next general election?

    Except. As I have pointed out, in the only bit they are directly responsible for, the Public Sector.
    Here, they are intent on enforcing well below inflation rises. With higher taxes.
    Is a wave of strikes the next Culture War plan? Cos it seems likely.
    Never put down to malice what can be explained by stupidity, I guess.

    But someone needs to ask the government if the "high wage" thing applies to people employed by the government.
    It would help public sector workers if they were a bit more keen to vote with their feet.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,092

    Nigelb said:

    felix said:

    Lol.


    Fun that the loudest shouts for needing fuel are coming from London and SE England. You know, that place where they have a vast tube, railway, bus, taxi and Uber network.

    I'm so old I remember when kids walked to school on their own.

    Incredible I know.
    {Yorkshire Accent Loading....}

    Riiiiiiiiiight!

    {Opens bottle of Chateau de Chassilier}

    When I was a lad......
    Were.

    Please.
    We was too poor to afford the word "were" - vowels was extra.
    Is extra.
  • Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    On Marr's paper review they discussed the possibility of Burnham ousting Starmer in the next 12 months if things do not improve

    And then made the point that Burnham affirms he will work with Gove/Boris while Starmer says Boris is a trivial man

    Interesting

    On the day the PM tells Marr it's fine to incinerate hundreds of thousands of pigs, a man called "Burnham" says he'll work with him?
    He certainly did
    Burnham. Burn ham.
    Burn. Ham.

    Never mind..
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYAqQGEHg7I

    One of the funniest comedians I've ever seen live. One of the only funny ventriloquists.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    IanB2 said:



    The biggest news from the interview is that thousands of pigs face culling and incineration within the next two weeks unless the government gets its act together to respond to the next crisis in line, and that Johnson had no answer.

    Why does this matter? They've spent their entire lives in squalid purgatory and would have been killed anyway.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,853
    Farooq said:

    ydoethur said:

    Farooq said:

    ydoethur said:

    Farooq said:

    Nigelb said:

    felix said:

    Lol.


    Fun that the loudest shouts for needing fuel are coming from London and SE England. You know, that place where they have a vast tube, railway, bus, taxi and Uber network.

    I'm so old I remember when kids walked to school on their own.

    Incredible I know.
    {Yorkshire Accent Loading....}

    Riiiiiiiiiight!

    {Opens bottle of Chateau de Chassilier}

    When I was a lad......
    Were.

    Please.
    We was too poor to afford the word "were" - vowels was extra.
    Course, that was before the "y" was used as a vowel. In my day, we made do with just the five vowels. But try telling children these days..
    Just as well for you you’re not Welsh. We have seven vowels.
    "w" I assume? As in "cwrw"?
    W and y, yes.

    Intrigued that the first thing you think of when talking in or about Welsh is beer.
    I've been to Cardiff. I know there is a fondness there.
    Felinfoel of happy memory. And I learnt to pronounce Cwm Llwch properly in the Brecons. Though I wondered why Llwybr Cyhoeddus was such a popular placename on signposts.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,104

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    On Marr's paper review they discussed the possibility of Burnham ousting Starmer in the next 12 months if things do not improve

    And then made the point that Burnham affirms he will work with Gove/Boris while Starmer says Boris is a trivial man

    Interesting

    On the day the PM tells Marr it's fine to incinerate hundreds of thousands of pigs, a man called "Burnham" says he'll work with him?
    He certainly did
    Burnham. Burn ham.
    Burn. Ham.

    Never mind..
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYAqQGEHg7I

    One of the funniest comedians I've ever seen live. One of the only funny ventriloquists.
    He certainly seems to be a good ventriloquist.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,853
    edited October 2021
    Dura_Ace said:

    IanB2 said:



    The biggest news from the interview is that thousands of pigs face culling and incineration within the next two weeks unless the government gets its act together to respond to the next crisis in line, and that Johnson had no answer.

    Why does this matter? They've spent their entire lives in squalid purgatory and would have been killed anyway.
    Pork this week, turkeys next month - Mr Johnson doesn't want to end up in history as the wrong kind of Scrooge when it comes to the great patriotic British dinner. He feels very vulnerable to the remotest hint that he might be a Christmas party pooper. Vide covid regs last year.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,104
    Dura_Ace said:

    IanB2 said:



    The biggest news from the interview is that thousands of pigs face culling and incineration within the next two weeks unless the government gets its act together to respond to the next crisis in line, and that Johnson had no answer.

    Why does this matter? They've spent their entire lives in squalid purgatory and would have been killed anyway.
    Bluntly, it might be a waste, but it isn't a tragedy given that.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,853

    dixiedean said:

    Toms said:

    Toms said:

    felix said:

    Lol.


    Fun that the loudest shouts for needing fuel are coming from London and SE England. You know, that place where they have a vast tube, railway, bus, taxi and Uber network.

    Those households that have two or more cars: do they concentrate their fuel hoarding worries on one car or do they multiply them by a factor??
    We have 2 cars but my wife only does about 160 miles a year !!!!!
    When I grew up we had one car (renewed every ten years or so) and we three boys could use it too as we got our licenses. He never cleaned it having better things to do and knowing full well that it was just a tool and anyway rotting from inside and underneath.

    P/S We walked to school. I believe many kids still do there.
    From secondary, many children in London take public transport, if they can't walk to school.

    There is a whole thing about arranging with friends, who is going to be in which Tube carriage...
    Around half, including First School, are bussed in round here. Quite a number walk.
    Near me, there is a small park. In the mornings, there is a whole row of mini buses/min coaches (5 or 6 of them( taking children to the various private schools. Some are quite a distance away.

    Yet, I remember people saying that school buses were impossible in this country.....
    Is there possibily some confusion with the specialist school bus as seen in the States, which does not occur in the UK AFAIK, rather than the bog standard Personenkraftwagen used for everything from OAPs to Glasgow Rangers fans?
  • BalrogBalrog Posts: 207

    felix said:

    Lol.


    Fun that the loudest shouts for needing fuel are coming from London and SE England. You know, that place where they have a vast tube, railway, bus, taxi and Uber network.

    I'm so old I remember when kids walked to school on their own.

    Incredible I know.
    I think it was 1968, when I walked into school, a good mile away, through snow drifts taller than I was....
    We must be a similar age. I have memories of walking a mile to school in a blizzard in short trousers in the late 60s. I would have been 6 in 1968 so about right...
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,044
    edited October 2021
    tlg86 said:

    The message I got from the Boris interview is that the government are actively creating inflation. Higher wages,higher taxes on employment, companies, lots of new taxes, more spending by government.

    This would also indicate higher interest rates.

    Will this hit prior to the next general election?

    I might have missed it, but your point - a very reasonable one - was not raised by Marr. It’s almost as though the media have forgotten about monetary policy.
    I think the country as a whole has forgotten the economic lessons that Mrs Thatcher taught it very painfully in the 1980s, not just monetary policy, but also supply side. In particular, the only way to prosperity is higher productivity, and the best way to higher productivity is competitive markets.

    Partly it's a generational thing, partly it's a very left wing academic establishment and broadcast media, and partly it's an increased focus on trivia like trans rights or statues ffs.

    Either way, we'll have to have a new Mrs Thatcher in a few years, when our decline, as opposed to stagnation, becomes even more obvious than it already is.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398
    edited October 2021

    darkage said:

    TimS said:

    The Tories’ remarkable ideological flexibility is allowing for an interesting experiment here. (Ideological flexibility on economic matters at least).

    I have seen erstwhile free marketeers go on quite a journey in the last few years. We are going to have a go at a bit of Autarky and of will be interesting to watch. There will be winners and losers.

    We know that when you expand international trade and cross border migration you tend to see overall greater economic growth, low inflation, technical innovation and consumer choice. But at the same time you create a left behind class - in the 18th C it was the old skilled artisans - and you tend to see increasing inequality as well as suppression of wages.

    A move towards Autarky with inhibited migration and greater trade barriers as we’re now seeing should all things being equal give us some of the opposite: slower growth, higher inflation, reduced consumer choice but better conditions for workers and protection for some domestic producers. That will only work of course if the UK imposes proper barriers to imports (at the moment the barriers are rather asymmetrical).

    We’ve seen from Russia (e.g. Belarusian “Camembert”) that import substitution can be a boon to some producers. Likewise despite repeated exchange crises countries like Argentina still function, just about. The Soviet bloc obviously took things a lot further in the 20th century and ultimately paid the price, but it’s interesting to see the journey our erstwhile right of centre party is taking, largely opportunistically, towards something perhaps more akin to Latin American trade policy.

    Latin American economics.
    Latin American politics, too.

    See, on one hand, plans to stifle the Electoral Commission, clip the wings of the judiciary etc, and on the other the notable increase in cronyism and petty corruption.
    If restricting low wage immigration is fascist autarkism, why is restricting house building to point of insane property price inflation not fascist autarkism?
    I think you’re rather putting words in my mouth there. I think Britain is some way off a “fascist autarky”.

    As for the house building restrictions, in my more flippant moods I happen to think the term “soviet” is more apposite.

    In any case, house price rises have mostly been about low interest rates, somewhat about planning dysfunction (as opposed to restriction per se), and some way off that increased demand.
    Ha.

    Housing construction has been 100Ks less than population growth for a very considerable number of years. During that time, house prices rose. Almost as if the scarcity of the vital commodity......

    The restriction of the building of properties is official policy of the state. Phone the police in rural Britain to report a crime. They will barely bother. Imply that someone is building a house without permission - blue lights*

    We have people paying literally £1 million pounds to live in cottages that the Edwardians built for the workers in a brick factory, not far from where I live.

    *A farmer friend demonstrated this perfectly. The usual robberies from his farm over the years. Crickets. Then one day, he decides to put a roof on an old stone, abandoned building - as a secure store. He had the planners, the cops etc round the day he started....
    To be fair, there have been instances of town planners being murdered in these situations.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Harry_Collinson

    ...and a 20mm cannon modified to be attached to one of his vehicles...

    WTF - this isn't Texas.

    My friend the farmer wasn't even annoyed at the whole proceedings. Though they insisted on him shutting down work for the day, despite him presenting to the planner officers the reasons why he didn't need planning permission to do what he was doing.

    He figured it was one of those things where they were a bit embarrassed by having turned up mob handed and simply driving off would have made them feel foolish.

    So he made them all a round of builders tea. And phoned his lawyer.
    I sympathise with your friend. However, planning enforcement is a statutory duty. Where someone complains, the Council has to investigate it; as the laws (which are indeed restrictive in the Countryside) have to be seen to be applied fairly to everyone. If they fail to do this, then it ends up very badly for Councils; such a position is politically impossible. Not investigating at all is not an option. So they might as well do it straight away, particularly if it turns out that your friend is doing illegal work, then they will know before they incur significant costs.

    I don't know why the Police don't take the same approach to rural property crime, but I suspect it is simply a case that other crimes are given a higher priority. It is an interesting comparison.

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,307
    Carnyx said:

    dixiedean said:

    Toms said:

    Toms said:

    felix said:

    Lol.


    Fun that the loudest shouts for needing fuel are coming from London and SE England. You know, that place where they have a vast tube, railway, bus, taxi and Uber network.

    Those households that have two or more cars: do they concentrate their fuel hoarding worries on one car or do they multiply them by a factor??
    We have 2 cars but my wife only does about 160 miles a year !!!!!
    When I grew up we had one car (renewed every ten years or so) and we three boys could use it too as we got our licenses. He never cleaned it having better things to do and knowing full well that it was just a tool and anyway rotting from inside and underneath.

    P/S We walked to school. I believe many kids still do there.
    From secondary, many children in London take public transport, if they can't walk to school.

    There is a whole thing about arranging with friends, who is going to be in which Tube carriage...
    Around half, including First School, are bussed in round here. Quite a number walk.
    Near me, there is a small park. In the mornings, there is a whole row of mini buses/min coaches (5 or 6 of them( taking children to the various private schools. Some are quite a distance away.

    Yet, I remember people saying that school buses were impossible in this country.....
    Is there possibily some confusion with the specialist school bus as seen in the States, which does not occur in the UK AFAIK, rather than the bog standard Personenkraftwagen used for everything from OAPs to Glasgow Rangers fans?
    Well, people used the conflation with US school busses to argue against them. Which seemed mental - every parent has seen their child go off to something or the other in a school (or sports club) hired vehicle...

    I've heard it suggested that the bus companies hate the idea, because of loss of business.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,307
    darkage said:

    darkage said:

    TimS said:

    The Tories’ remarkable ideological flexibility is allowing for an interesting experiment here. (Ideological flexibility on economic matters at least).

    I have seen erstwhile free marketeers go on quite a journey in the last few years. We are going to have a go at a bit of Autarky and of will be interesting to watch. There will be winners and losers.

    We know that when you expand international trade and cross border migration you tend to see overall greater economic growth, low inflation, technical innovation and consumer choice. But at the same time you create a left behind class - in the 18th C it was the old skilled artisans - and you tend to see increasing inequality as well as suppression of wages.

    A move towards Autarky with inhibited migration and greater trade barriers as we’re now seeing should all things being equal give us some of the opposite: slower growth, higher inflation, reduced consumer choice but better conditions for workers and protection for some domestic producers. That will only work of course if the UK imposes proper barriers to imports (at the moment the barriers are rather asymmetrical).

    We’ve seen from Russia (e.g. Belarusian “Camembert”) that import substitution can be a boon to some producers. Likewise despite repeated exchange crises countries like Argentina still function, just about. The Soviet bloc obviously took things a lot further in the 20th century and ultimately paid the price, but it’s interesting to see the journey our erstwhile right of centre party is taking, largely opportunistically, towards something perhaps more akin to Latin American trade policy.

    Latin American economics.
    Latin American politics, too.

    See, on one hand, plans to stifle the Electoral Commission, clip the wings of the judiciary etc, and on the other the notable increase in cronyism and petty corruption.
    If restricting low wage immigration is fascist autarkism, why is restricting house building to point of insane property price inflation not fascist autarkism?
    I think you’re rather putting words in my mouth there. I think Britain is some way off a “fascist autarky”.

    As for the house building restrictions, in my more flippant moods I happen to think the term “soviet” is more apposite.

    In any case, house price rises have mostly been about low interest rates, somewhat about planning dysfunction (as opposed to restriction per se), and some way off that increased demand.
    Ha.

    Housing construction has been 100Ks less than population growth for a very considerable number of years. During that time, house prices rose. Almost as if the scarcity of the vital commodity......

    The restriction of the building of properties is official policy of the state. Phone the police in rural Britain to report a crime. They will barely bother. Imply that someone is building a house without permission - blue lights*

    We have people paying literally £1 million pounds to live in cottages that the Edwardians built for the workers in a brick factory, not far from where I live.

    *A farmer friend demonstrated this perfectly. The usual robberies from his farm over the years. Crickets. Then one day, he decides to put a roof on an old stone, abandoned building - as a secure store. He had the planners, the cops etc round the day he started....
    To be fair, there have been instances of town planners being murdered in these situations.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Harry_Collinson

    ...and a 20mm cannon modified to be attached to one of his vehicles...

    WTF - this isn't Texas.

    My friend the farmer wasn't even annoyed at the whole proceedings. Though they insisted on him shutting down work for the day, despite him presenting to the planner officers the reasons why he didn't need planning permission to do what he was doing.

    He figured it was one of those things where they were a bit embarrassed by having turned up mob handed and simply driving off would have made them feel foolish.

    So he made them all a round of builders tea. And phoned his lawyer.
    I sympathise with your friend. However, planning enforcement is a statutory duty. Where someone complains, the Council has to investigate it; as the laws (which are indeed restrictive in the Countryside) have to be seen to be applied fairly to everyone. If they fail to do this, then it ends up very badly for Councils; such a position is politically impossible. Not investigating at all is not an option. So they might as well do it straight away, particularly if it turns out that your friend is doing illegal work, then they will know before they incur significant costs.

    I don't know why the Police don't take the same approach to rural property crime, but I suspect it is simply a case that other crimes are given a higher priority. It is an interesting comparison.

    Oh sure.

    The police don't investigate rural crime because there is no upside for them. The criminals involved are generally well known, but they are a lot of trouble to arrest, have alibis from their friends etc etc.

    Mind you, the police did attend a neighbouring farm, sharpish. A quad bike got stolen, and the idiot stealing it crashed and hurt himself. The police were trying to accuse the farmer of leaving an unsafe vehicle about, possibly a booby trap!

    He pointed out the the vehicle in question was un-plated and for use on the farm only. And to fuck off.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,346

    Cyclefree said:

    Carnyx said:

    MattW said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Charles said:

    Cyclefree said:

    tlg86 said:

    nico679 said:

    Astonishing comments by Bozo re pigs . Jaw dropping .

    Marr approached it from the wrong angle. He should have approached it from a food shortage POV.
    What did he say?
    Marr complained 120,000 pigs are going to be slaughtered because of a shortage of labour in abattoirs

    Boris said (paraphrase) (a) the food industry kills a lot of pigs and (b) the most important thing to do is fix the labour shortages through addressing pay & automation
    I hold Johnson to be of less worth than any one of those 120,000 pigs but that doesn't seem like an unreasonable answer.
    Marr somewhat playing shlock! horror! games here.

    Putting this in context. Telltale the actual number from the National Pig Association is 100k-120k, and tabloid Marr chose the upper limit for sensation, as often happens.

    Putting this into context, 120,000 pigs is about 3-4 days of production in the UK. That is, about 1% of annual production.

    Not really a "mass culling".

    Foot and Mouth was a "mass culling". Or mink in Denmark.

    Overall, another blood-curdling story from an industry lobby that does not quite match the reality.

    Rather like the Food Trade Federations misleading "disaster" narrative.
    Even so, throwing out half a week's worth of supply is bad economics. What would Mrs T have said?

    Also - if things don't get better then it will happen again.
    @DavidL has repeatedly made the point that the Single Market has been bad for Britain because it has resulted in too many imports. He usually posts the figures.

    If so, why is it a good thing to have more imports (of pig meat, say) because we can't slaughter our own and have to throw them away? I don't get it. If his analysis is correct we should be making it easier for domestic sectors not harder. But the uber-keen Brexiteers like @Philip_Thompson seem not to be worried by increasing imports.

    ???
    If its not economical to produce pigs in the UK then the land, labour and capital should be used on something it is economical to produce.
    ...Er, like houses?
    yes we can import houses instead
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398
    edited October 2021
    MaxPB said:

    tlg86 said:

    dixiedean said:

    The message I got from the Boris interview is that the government are actively creating inflation. Higher wages,higher taxes on employment, companies, lots of new taxes, more spending by government.

    This would also indicate higher interest rates.

    Will this hit prior to the next general election?

    Except. As I have pointed out, in the only bit they are directly responsible for, the Public Sector.
    Here, they are intent on enforcing well below inflation rises. With higher taxes.
    Is a wave of strikes the next Culture War plan? Cos it seems likely.
    Never put down to malice what can be explained by stupidity, I guess.

    But someone needs to ask the government if the "high wage" thing applies to people employed by the government.
    It would help public sector workers if they were a bit more keen to vote with their feet.
    That's never the case though, I've heard the bullshit so many times from public sector workers I know that they would "earn significantly more in the private sector" but amazingly few of them ever do it despite this mythical mega wage increase they could easily get. In reality the ones I know that did cross over took title and wage losses to make the jump and then had a very difficult adjustment to private sector working.

    In reality I think too many public sector workers are incapable of private sector work. They are institutionalised by the public sector straitjacket and struggle to adjust to the mentality of just making it work and rapid iteration.
    There is a lot of truth in this. I've heard it from colleagues throughout my long public sector career, I know for a fact they are wrong because I previously worked in the private sector and saw how it really was.

    However, the real difference in take home pay is between self employment/owning your own business and being employed; because of the tax advantages of the former.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,409
    edited October 2021

    dixiedean said:

    Toms said:

    Toms said:

    felix said:

    Lol.


    Fun that the loudest shouts for needing fuel are coming from London and SE England. You know, that place where they have a vast tube, railway, bus, taxi and Uber network.

    Those households that have two or more cars: do they concentrate their fuel hoarding worries on one car or do they multiply them by a factor??
    We have 2 cars but my wife only does about 160 miles a year !!!!!
    When I grew up we had one car (renewed every ten years or so) and we three boys could use it too as we got our licenses. He never cleaned it having better things to do and knowing full well that it was just a tool and anyway rotting from inside and underneath.

    P/S We walked to school. I believe many kids still do there.
    From secondary, many children in London take public transport, if they can't walk to school.

    There is a whole thing about arranging with friends, who is going to be in which Tube carriage...
    Around half, including First School, are bussed in round here. Quite a number walk.
    Near me, there is a small park. In the mornings, there is a whole row of mini buses/min coaches (5 or 6 of them( taking children to the various private schools. Some are quite a distance away.

    Yet, I remember people saying that school buses were impossible in this country.....
    Yes. As noted earlier, 3 miles "safe"walking is the statutory limit. Safe refers to pavemented and lit. If you attend the closest school and it is three miles or more, you get a free bus. Regardless of income. A bus which can also be paid for if you don't qualify.
    Both my kids had free transport to and from school. Pretty much the entire village uses it. A great deal of Northumberland does.
    Now youngest is in Sixth Form we chose to pay. It is cheap, efficient, predictable, safe and reliable. Can't imagine why we'd choose any other system.
    Although the neighbours on one side choose to make their life more difficult by ferrying their kid there and back themselves.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,307
    malcolmg said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Carnyx said:

    MattW said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Charles said:

    Cyclefree said:

    tlg86 said:

    nico679 said:

    Astonishing comments by Bozo re pigs . Jaw dropping .

    Marr approached it from the wrong angle. He should have approached it from a food shortage POV.
    What did he say?
    Marr complained 120,000 pigs are going to be slaughtered because of a shortage of labour in abattoirs

    Boris said (paraphrase) (a) the food industry kills a lot of pigs and (b) the most important thing to do is fix the labour shortages through addressing pay & automation
    I hold Johnson to be of less worth than any one of those 120,000 pigs but that doesn't seem like an unreasonable answer.
    Marr somewhat playing shlock! horror! games here.

    Putting this in context. Telltale the actual number from the National Pig Association is 100k-120k, and tabloid Marr chose the upper limit for sensation, as often happens.

    Putting this into context, 120,000 pigs is about 3-4 days of production in the UK. That is, about 1% of annual production.

    Not really a "mass culling".

    Foot and Mouth was a "mass culling". Or mink in Denmark.

    Overall, another blood-curdling story from an industry lobby that does not quite match the reality.

    Rather like the Food Trade Federations misleading "disaster" narrative.
    Even so, throwing out half a week's worth of supply is bad economics. What would Mrs T have said?

    Also - if things don't get better then it will happen again.
    @DavidL has repeatedly made the point that the Single Market has been bad for Britain because it has resulted in too many imports. He usually posts the figures.

    If so, why is it a good thing to have more imports (of pig meat, say) because we can't slaughter our own and have to throw them away? I don't get it. If his analysis is correct we should be making it easier for domestic sectors not harder. But the uber-keen Brexiteers like @Philip_Thompson seem not to be worried by increasing imports.

    ???
    If its not economical to produce pigs in the UK then the land, labour and capital should be used on something it is economical to produce.
    ...Er, like houses?
    yes we can import houses instead
    https://www.huf-haus.com/en-uk/
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,346
    FF43 said:

    MattW said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Charles said:

    Cyclefree said:

    tlg86 said:

    nico679 said:

    Astonishing comments by Bozo re pigs . Jaw dropping .

    Marr approached it from the wrong angle. He should have approached it from a food shortage POV.
    What did he say?
    Marr complained 120,000 pigs are going to be slaughtered because of a shortage of labour in abattoirs

    Boris said (paraphrase) (a) the food industry kills a lot of pigs and (b) the most important thing to do is fix the labour shortages through addressing pay & automation
    I hold Johnson to be of less worth than any one of those 120,000 pigs but that doesn't seem like an unreasonable answer.
    Marr somewhat playing shlock! horror! games here.

    Putting this in context. Telltale the actual number from the National Pig Association is 100k-120k, and tabloid Marr chose the upper limit for sensation, as often happens.

    Putting this into context, 120,000 pigs is about 3-4 days of production in the UK. That is, about 1% of annual production.

    Not really a "mass culling".

    Foot and Mouth was a "mass culling". Or mink in Denmark.

    Overall, another blood-curdling story from an industry lobby that does not quite match the reality.

    Rather like the Food Trade Federations misleading "disaster" narrative.
    The important figure probably is that the backlog of being added to at a rate of 12 000, such implies a capacity shortfall of about 7%. Once the initial culls are over, which will be grim, the equilibrium will be found by pig farmers cutting production, as already happened with turkeys. It will be cut by more than 7% however. Farmers can't risk raising pigs they can't sell.

    No-one of this will help improve conditions for abattoir workers.
    or the price of bacon
  • kle4 said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    On Marr's paper review they discussed the possibility of Burnham ousting Starmer in the next 12 months if things do not improve

    And then made the point that Burnham affirms he will work with Gove/Boris while Starmer says Boris is a trivial man

    Interesting

    On the day the PM tells Marr it's fine to incinerate hundreds of thousands of pigs, a man called "Burnham" says he'll work with him?
    He certainly did
    Burnham. Burn ham.
    Burn. Ham.

    Never mind..
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYAqQGEHg7I

    One of the funniest comedians I've ever seen live. One of the only funny ventriloquists.
    He certainly seems to be a good ventriloquist.
    If you don't know him then he's got a few of his shows on Netflix and Prime Video and lots of clips on YouTube. He's got a great cast of characters he uses, my personal favourite is Achmed the Dead Terrorist.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,418
    Anyway, in important news:

    57% of our electricity currently generated by wind and solar.

    Even though I presume domestic gas use is rising substantially as the weather turns colder, that should ease the pressure on electricity prices somewhat.

    Hopefully it will be kept up for a few days looking at the forecast.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,346

    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    FF43 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Carnyx said:

    MattW said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Charles said:

    Cyclefree said:

    tlg86 said:

    nico679 said:

    Astonishing comments by Bozo re pigs . Jaw dropping .

    Marr approached it from the wrong angle. He should have approached it from a food shortage POV.
    What did he say?
    Marr complained 120,000 pigs are going to be slaughtered because of a shortage of labour in abattoirs

    Boris said (paraphrase) (a) the food industry kills a lot of pigs and (b) the most important thing to do is fix the labour shortages through addressing pay & automation
    I hold Johnson to be of less worth than any one of those 120,000 pigs but that doesn't seem like an unreasonable answer.
    Marr somewhat playing shlock! horror! games here.

    Putting this in context. Telltale the actual number from the National Pig Association is 100k-120k, and tabloid Marr chose the upper limit for sensation, as often happens.

    Putting this into context, 120,000 pigs is about 3-4 days of production in the UK. That is, about 1% of annual production.

    Not really a "mass culling".

    Foot and Mouth was a "mass culling". Or mink in Denmark.

    Overall, another blood-curdling story from an industry lobby that does not quite match the reality.

    Rather like the Food Trade Federations misleading "disaster" narrative.
    Even so, throwing out half a week's worth of supply is bad economics. What would Mrs T have said?

    Also - if things don't get better then it will happen again.
    @DavidL has repeatedly made the point that the Single Market has been bad for Britain because it has resulted in too many imports. He usually posts the figures.

    If so, why is it a good thing to have more imports (of pig meat, say) because we can't slaughter our own and have to throw them away? I don't get it. If his analysis is correct we should be making it easier for domestic sectors not harder. But the uber-keen Brexiteers like @Philip_Thompson seem not to be worried by increasing imports.

    ???
    If its not economical to produce pigs in the UK then the land, labour and capital should be used on something it is economical to produce.
    A use well always be found for the land. However stopping pig production doesn't mean a substitution by higher value production. That's illogical. The higher value production would be happening anyway in that case. Stopping production just means we will collectively be a bit poorer and the pig farmer a lot poorer.
    If the climate change activists have their way pig production for meat consumptions will be banned
    If God didn’t want us to eat pigs, why did He make them out of bacon?
    It has so many nitrates and nitrites in it that it's basically poison. Group 1 carcinogen. You might as well smerk tabs.
    Finding bacon, chorizo, etc that isn't full of chemicals is a challenge.
    M&S have nitrate free bacon
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    ydoethur said:

    Farooq said:

    Nigelb said:

    felix said:

    Lol.


    Fun that the loudest shouts for needing fuel are coming from London and SE England. You know, that place where they have a vast tube, railway, bus, taxi and Uber network.

    I'm so old I remember when kids walked to school on their own.

    Incredible I know.
    {Yorkshire Accent Loading....}

    Riiiiiiiiiight!

    {Opens bottle of Chateau de Chassilier}

    When I was a lad......
    Were.

    Please.
    We was too poor to afford the word "were" - vowels was extra.
    Course, that was before the "y" was used as a vowel. In my day, we made do with just the five vowels. But try telling children these days..
    Just as well for you you’re not Welsh. We have seven vowels.
    Russian is still wining with 10 vowels plus one reduced rounded vowel (tvyordiy znak) and one reduced fronted vowel (myagkiy znak). Three other vowels were eliminated as bourgeois in the 1917-18 reform of the Russian language.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,994
    How can "we are not going to open the taps on uncontrolled low-skilled immigration" be a response to UK shortages of HGV drivers and butchers?

    Reason gov't has been unable to compensate for these shortages is *quite fucking literally* that they require highly skilled people.


    https://twitter.com/sturdyAlex/status/1444644388794159105
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,346

    malcolmg said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Carnyx said:

    MattW said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Charles said:

    Cyclefree said:

    tlg86 said:

    nico679 said:

    Astonishing comments by Bozo re pigs . Jaw dropping .

    Marr approached it from the wrong angle. He should have approached it from a food shortage POV.
    What did he say?
    Marr complained 120,000 pigs are going to be slaughtered because of a shortage of labour in abattoirs

    Boris said (paraphrase) (a) the food industry kills a lot of pigs and (b) the most important thing to do is fix the labour shortages through addressing pay & automation
    I hold Johnson to be of less worth than any one of those 120,000 pigs but that doesn't seem like an unreasonable answer.
    Marr somewhat playing shlock! horror! games here.

    Putting this in context. Telltale the actual number from the National Pig Association is 100k-120k, and tabloid Marr chose the upper limit for sensation, as often happens.

    Putting this into context, 120,000 pigs is about 3-4 days of production in the UK. That is, about 1% of annual production.

    Not really a "mass culling".

    Foot and Mouth was a "mass culling". Or mink in Denmark.

    Overall, another blood-curdling story from an industry lobby that does not quite match the reality.

    Rather like the Food Trade Federations misleading "disaster" narrative.
    Even so, throwing out half a week's worth of supply is bad economics. What would Mrs T have said?

    Also - if things don't get better then it will happen again.
    @DavidL has repeatedly made the point that the Single Market has been bad for Britain because it has resulted in too many imports. He usually posts the figures.

    If so, why is it a good thing to have more imports (of pig meat, say) because we can't slaughter our own and have to throw them away? I don't get it. If his analysis is correct we should be making it easier for domestic sectors not harder. But the uber-keen Brexiteers like @Philip_Thompson seem not to be worried by increasing imports.

    ???
    If its not economical to produce pigs in the UK then the land, labour and capital should be used on something it is economical to produce.
    ...Er, like houses?
    yes we can import houses instead
    https://www.huf-haus.com/en-uk/
    Yes, actually be far better than the rip off junk they build here. Smart looking houses.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,346
    ydoethur said:

    Anyway, in important news:

    57% of our electricity currently generated by wind and solar.

    Even though I presume domestic gas use is rising substantially as the weather turns colder, that should ease the pressure on electricity prices somewhat.

    Hopefully it will be kept up for a few days looking at the forecast.

    Scotland is much higher than 57%
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,409
    darkage said:

    MaxPB said:

    tlg86 said:

    dixiedean said:

    The message I got from the Boris interview is that the government are actively creating inflation. Higher wages,higher taxes on employment, companies, lots of new taxes, more spending by government.

    This would also indicate higher interest rates.

    Will this hit prior to the next general election?

    Except. As I have pointed out, in the only bit they are directly responsible for, the Public Sector.
    Here, they are intent on enforcing well below inflation rises. With higher taxes.
    Is a wave of strikes the next Culture War plan? Cos it seems likely.
    Never put down to malice what can be explained by stupidity, I guess.

    But someone needs to ask the government if the "high wage" thing applies to people employed by the government.
    It would help public sector workers if they were a bit more keen to vote with their feet.
    That's never the case though, I've heard the bullshit so many times from public sector workers I know that they would "earn significantly more in the private sector" but amazingly few of them ever do it despite this mythical mega wage increase they could easily get. In reality the ones I know that did cross over took title and wage losses to make the jump and then had a very difficult adjustment to private sector working.

    In reality I think too many public sector workers are incapable of private sector work. They are institutionalised by the public sector straitjacket and struggle to adjust to the mentality of just making it work and rapid iteration.
    There is a lot of truth in this. I've heard it from colleagues throughout my long public sector career, I know for a fact they are wrong because I previously worked in the private sector and saw how it really was.

    However, the real difference in take home pay is between self employment/owning your own business and being employed; because of the tax advantages of the former.
    "Public sector" is quite wide ranging though isn't it? Teachers don't seem to have much of an issue. Hence why there are more not teaching than teaching.
    And no private sector job has a "just make it work and rapid iteration" situation quite like having to face down 30 plus hormonal six foot sixteen year olds for 50 minutes when they are determined to kick off.
    "Pitches" to groups of besuited business people, having had a full week to prepare, are understandably a bit of a piece of piss to say the least in comparison.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,418
    malcolmg said:

    ydoethur said:

    Anyway, in important news:

    57% of our electricity currently generated by wind and solar.

    Even though I presume domestic gas use is rising substantially as the weather turns colder, that should ease the pressure on electricity prices somewhat.

    Hopefully it will be kept up for a few days looking at the forecast.

    Scotland is much higher than 57%
    Unless you have left the UK energy market when I wasn’t looking that isn’t relevant.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,307
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Carnyx said:

    MattW said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Charles said:

    Cyclefree said:

    tlg86 said:

    nico679 said:

    Astonishing comments by Bozo re pigs . Jaw dropping .

    Marr approached it from the wrong angle. He should have approached it from a food shortage POV.
    What did he say?
    Marr complained 120,000 pigs are going to be slaughtered because of a shortage of labour in abattoirs

    Boris said (paraphrase) (a) the food industry kills a lot of pigs and (b) the most important thing to do is fix the labour shortages through addressing pay & automation
    I hold Johnson to be of less worth than any one of those 120,000 pigs but that doesn't seem like an unreasonable answer.
    Marr somewhat playing shlock! horror! games here.

    Putting this in context. Telltale the actual number from the National Pig Association is 100k-120k, and tabloid Marr chose the upper limit for sensation, as often happens.

    Putting this into context, 120,000 pigs is about 3-4 days of production in the UK. That is, about 1% of annual production.

    Not really a "mass culling".

    Foot and Mouth was a "mass culling". Or mink in Denmark.

    Overall, another blood-curdling story from an industry lobby that does not quite match the reality.

    Rather like the Food Trade Federations misleading "disaster" narrative.
    Even so, throwing out half a week's worth of supply is bad economics. What would Mrs T have said?

    Also - if things don't get better then it will happen again.
    @DavidL has repeatedly made the point that the Single Market has been bad for Britain because it has resulted in too many imports. He usually posts the figures.

    If so, why is it a good thing to have more imports (of pig meat, say) because we can't slaughter our own and have to throw them away? I don't get it. If his analysis is correct we should be making it easier for domestic sectors not harder. But the uber-keen Brexiteers like @Philip_Thompson seem not to be worried by increasing imports.

    ???
    If its not economical to produce pigs in the UK then the land, labour and capital should be used on something it is economical to produce.
    ...Er, like houses?
    yes we can import houses instead
    https://www.huf-haus.com/en-uk/
    Yes, actually be far better than the rip off junk they build here. Smart looking houses.
    If I accidentally become a billionaire, I have a day dream of secretly stockpiling Huf houses and then launching a massive terrorist house building campaign......

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,418
    dixiedean said:

    darkage said:

    MaxPB said:

    tlg86 said:

    dixiedean said:

    The message I got from the Boris interview is that the government are actively creating inflation. Higher wages,higher taxes on employment, companies, lots of new taxes, more spending by government.

    This would also indicate higher interest rates.

    Will this hit prior to the next general election?

    Except. As I have pointed out, in the only bit they are directly responsible for, the Public Sector.
    Here, they are intent on enforcing well below inflation rises. With higher taxes.
    Is a wave of strikes the next Culture War plan? Cos it seems likely.
    Never put down to malice what can be explained by stupidity, I guess.

    But someone needs to ask the government if the "high wage" thing applies to people employed by the government.
    It would help public sector workers if they were a bit more keen to vote with their feet.
    That's never the case though, I've heard the bullshit so many times from public sector workers I know that they would "earn significantly more in the private sector" but amazingly few of them ever do it despite this mythical mega wage increase they could easily get. In reality the ones I know that did cross over took title and wage losses to make the jump and then had a very difficult adjustment to private sector working.

    In reality I think too many public sector workers are incapable of private sector work. They are institutionalised by the public sector straitjacket and struggle to adjust to the mentality of just making it work and rapid iteration.
    There is a lot of truth in this. I've heard it from colleagues throughout my long public sector career, I know for a fact they are wrong because I previously worked in the private sector and saw how it really was.

    However, the real difference in take home pay is between self employment/owning your own business and being employed; because of the tax advantages of the former.
    "Public sector" is quite wide ranging though isn't it? Teachers don't seem to have much of an issue. Hence why there are more not teaching than teaching.
    And no private sector job has a "just make it work and rapid iteration" situation quite like having to face down 30 plus hormonal six foot sixteen year olds for 50 minutes when they are determined to kick off.
    "Pitches" to groups of besuited business people, having had a full week to prepare, are understandably a bit of a piece of piss to say the least in comparison.
    Particularly when it’s once a week not five times a day.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,853
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Carnyx said:

    MattW said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Charles said:

    Cyclefree said:

    tlg86 said:

    nico679 said:

    Astonishing comments by Bozo re pigs . Jaw dropping .

    Marr approached it from the wrong angle. He should have approached it from a food shortage POV.
    What did he say?
    Marr complained 120,000 pigs are going to be slaughtered because of a shortage of labour in abattoirs

    Boris said (paraphrase) (a) the food industry kills a lot of pigs and (b) the most important thing to do is fix the labour shortages through addressing pay & automation
    I hold Johnson to be of less worth than any one of those 120,000 pigs but that doesn't seem like an unreasonable answer.
    Marr somewhat playing shlock! horror! games here.

    Putting this in context. Telltale the actual number from the National Pig Association is 100k-120k, and tabloid Marr chose the upper limit for sensation, as often happens.

    Putting this into context, 120,000 pigs is about 3-4 days of production in the UK. That is, about 1% of annual production.

    Not really a "mass culling".

    Foot and Mouth was a "mass culling". Or mink in Denmark.

    Overall, another blood-curdling story from an industry lobby that does not quite match the reality.

    Rather like the Food Trade Federations misleading "disaster" narrative.
    Even so, throwing out half a week's worth of supply is bad economics. What would Mrs T have said?

    Also - if things don't get better then it will happen again.
    @DavidL has repeatedly made the point that the Single Market has been bad for Britain because it has resulted in too many imports. He usually posts the figures.

    If so, why is it a good thing to have more imports (of pig meat, say) because we can't slaughter our own and have to throw them away? I don't get it. If his analysis is correct we should be making it easier for domestic sectors not harder. But the uber-keen Brexiteers like @Philip_Thompson seem not to be worried by increasing imports.

    ???
    If its not economical to produce pigs in the UK then the land, labour and capital should be used on something it is economical to produce.
    ...Er, like houses?
    yes we can import houses instead
    https://www.huf-haus.com/en-uk/
    Yes, actually be far better than the rip off junk they build here. Smart looking houses.
    Seriously tempting.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,307
    Dura_Ace said:

    ydoethur said:

    Farooq said:

    Nigelb said:

    felix said:

    Lol.


    Fun that the loudest shouts for needing fuel are coming from London and SE England. You know, that place where they have a vast tube, railway, bus, taxi and Uber network.

    I'm so old I remember when kids walked to school on their own.

    Incredible I know.
    {Yorkshire Accent Loading....}

    Riiiiiiiiiight!

    {Opens bottle of Chateau de Chassilier}

    When I was a lad......
    Were.

    Please.
    We was too poor to afford the word "were" - vowels was extra.
    Course, that was before the "y" was used as a vowel. In my day, we made do with just the five vowels. But try telling children these days..
    Just as well for you you’re not Welsh. We have seven vowels.
    Russian is still wining with 10 vowels plus one reduced rounded vowel (tvyordiy znak) and one reduced fronted vowel (myagkiy znak). Three other vowels were eliminated as bourgeois in the 1917-18 reform of the Russian language.
    Cossacks stole all the vowels for their Russian masters. Hence all the people from the Shtetl who are vowel deprived, for their surnames.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,409
    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    darkage said:

    MaxPB said:

    tlg86 said:

    dixiedean said:

    The message I got from the Boris interview is that the government are actively creating inflation. Higher wages,higher taxes on employment, companies, lots of new taxes, more spending by government.

    This would also indicate higher interest rates.

    Will this hit prior to the next general election?

    Except. As I have pointed out, in the only bit they are directly responsible for, the Public Sector.
    Here, they are intent on enforcing well below inflation rises. With higher taxes.
    Is a wave of strikes the next Culture War plan? Cos it seems likely.
    Never put down to malice what can be explained by stupidity, I guess.

    But someone needs to ask the government if the "high wage" thing applies to people employed by the government.
    It would help public sector workers if they were a bit more keen to vote with their feet.
    That's never the case though, I've heard the bullshit so many times from public sector workers I know that they would "earn significantly more in the private sector" but amazingly few of them ever do it despite this mythical mega wage increase they could easily get. In reality the ones I know that did cross over took title and wage losses to make the jump and then had a very difficult adjustment to private sector working.

    In reality I think too many public sector workers are incapable of private sector work. They are institutionalised by the public sector straitjacket and struggle to adjust to the mentality of just making it work and rapid iteration.
    There is a lot of truth in this. I've heard it from colleagues throughout my long public sector career, I know for a fact they are wrong because I previously worked in the private sector and saw how it really was.

    However, the real difference in take home pay is between self employment/owning your own business and being employed; because of the tax advantages of the former.
    "Public sector" is quite wide ranging though isn't it? Teachers don't seem to have much of an issue. Hence why there are more not teaching than teaching.
    And no private sector job has a "just make it work and rapid iteration" situation quite like having to face down 30 plus hormonal six foot sixteen year olds for 50 minutes when they are determined to kick off.
    "Pitches" to groups of besuited business people, having had a full week to prepare, are understandably a bit of a piece of piss to say the least in comparison.
    Particularly when it’s once a week not five times a day.
    Yes indeed. Teachings so cushy. Couldn't cope in the private sector. Except the majority of teachers actually are doing.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,307
    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Carnyx said:

    MattW said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Charles said:

    Cyclefree said:

    tlg86 said:

    nico679 said:

    Astonishing comments by Bozo re pigs . Jaw dropping .

    Marr approached it from the wrong angle. He should have approached it from a food shortage POV.
    What did he say?
    Marr complained 120,000 pigs are going to be slaughtered because of a shortage of labour in abattoirs

    Boris said (paraphrase) (a) the food industry kills a lot of pigs and (b) the most important thing to do is fix the labour shortages through addressing pay & automation
    I hold Johnson to be of less worth than any one of those 120,000 pigs but that doesn't seem like an unreasonable answer.
    Marr somewhat playing shlock! horror! games here.

    Putting this in context. Telltale the actual number from the National Pig Association is 100k-120k, and tabloid Marr chose the upper limit for sensation, as often happens.

    Putting this into context, 120,000 pigs is about 3-4 days of production in the UK. That is, about 1% of annual production.

    Not really a "mass culling".

    Foot and Mouth was a "mass culling". Or mink in Denmark.

    Overall, another blood-curdling story from an industry lobby that does not quite match the reality.

    Rather like the Food Trade Federations misleading "disaster" narrative.
    Even so, throwing out half a week's worth of supply is bad economics. What would Mrs T have said?

    Also - if things don't get better then it will happen again.
    @DavidL has repeatedly made the point that the Single Market has been bad for Britain because it has resulted in too many imports. He usually posts the figures.

    If so, why is it a good thing to have more imports (of pig meat, say) because we can't slaughter our own and have to throw them away? I don't get it. If his analysis is correct we should be making it easier for domestic sectors not harder. But the uber-keen Brexiteers like @Philip_Thompson seem not to be worried by increasing imports.

    ???
    If its not economical to produce pigs in the UK then the land, labour and capital should be used on something it is economical to produce.
    ...Er, like houses?
    yes we can import houses instead
    https://www.huf-haus.com/en-uk/
    Yes, actually be far better than the rip off junk they build here. Smart looking houses.
    Seriously tempting.
    They are very pricey for what you get, though. If Apple did houses....
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,686
    tlg86 said:

    dixiedean said:

    The message I got from the Boris interview is that the government are actively creating inflation. Higher wages,higher taxes on employment, companies, lots of new taxes, more spending by government.

    This would also indicate higher interest rates.

    Will this hit prior to the next general election?

    Except. As I have pointed out, in the only bit they are directly responsible for, the Public Sector.
    Here, they are intent on enforcing well below inflation rises. With higher taxes.
    Is a wave of strikes the next Culture War plan? Cos it seems likely.
    Never put down to malice what can be explained by stupidity, I guess.

    But someone needs to ask the government if the "high wage" thing applies to people employed by the government.
    It would help public sector workers if they were a bit more keen to vote with their feet.
    The Nursing and support worker shortage in my Trust suggests that they have voted with their feet...
  • NEW THREAD

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,307
    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Toms said:

    Toms said:

    felix said:

    Lol.


    Fun that the loudest shouts for needing fuel are coming from London and SE England. You know, that place where they have a vast tube, railway, bus, taxi and Uber network.

    Those households that have two or more cars: do they concentrate their fuel hoarding worries on one car or do they multiply them by a factor??
    We have 2 cars but my wife only does about 160 miles a year !!!!!
    When I grew up we had one car (renewed every ten years or so) and we three boys could use it too as we got our licenses. He never cleaned it having better things to do and knowing full well that it was just a tool and anyway rotting from inside and underneath.

    P/S We walked to school. I believe many kids still do there.
    From secondary, many children in London take public transport, if they can't walk to school.

    There is a whole thing about arranging with friends, who is going to be in which Tube carriage...
    Around half, including First School, are bussed in round here. Quite a number walk.
    Near me, there is a small park. In the mornings, there is a whole row of mini buses/min coaches (5 or 6 of them( taking children to the various private schools. Some are quite a distance away.

    Yet, I remember people saying that school buses were impossible in this country.....
    Yes. As noted earlier, 3 miles "safe"walking is the statutory limit. Safe refers to pavemented and lit. If you attend the closest school and it is three miles or more, you get a free bus. Regardless of income. A bus which can also be paid for if you don't qualify.
    Both my kids had free transport to and from school. Pretty much the entire village uses it. A great deal of Northumberland does.
    Now youngest is in Sixth Form we chose to pay. It is cheap, efficient, predictable, safe and reliable. Can't imagine why we'd choose any other system.
    Although the neighbours on one side choose to make their life more difficult by ferrying their kid there and back themselves.
    Down in Cornwall I came across the following - the local school wasn't that far. But, the roads are a real pain, incredibly narrow so easily blocked. So a local taxis driver noted that he was getting asked to drive a lot of children to school - at which point he said "I only have one pair of hands to drive with"... So rented a minibus, and signed up a number of parents. Now owns a vehicle outright and is looking at a second.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,418
    dixiedean said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    darkage said:

    MaxPB said:

    tlg86 said:

    dixiedean said:

    The message I got from the Boris interview is that the government are actively creating inflation. Higher wages,higher taxes on employment, companies, lots of new taxes, more spending by government.

    This would also indicate higher interest rates.

    Will this hit prior to the next general election?

    Except. As I have pointed out, in the only bit they are directly responsible for, the Public Sector.
    Here, they are intent on enforcing well below inflation rises. With higher taxes.
    Is a wave of strikes the next Culture War plan? Cos it seems likely.
    Never put down to malice what can be explained by stupidity, I guess.

    But someone needs to ask the government if the "high wage" thing applies to people employed by the government.
    It would help public sector workers if they were a bit more keen to vote with their feet.
    That's never the case though, I've heard the bullshit so many times from public sector workers I know that they would "earn significantly more in the private sector" but amazingly few of them ever do it despite this mythical mega wage increase they could easily get. In reality the ones I know that did cross over took title and wage losses to make the jump and then had a very difficult adjustment to private sector working.

    In reality I think too many public sector workers are incapable of private sector work. They are institutionalised by the public sector straitjacket and struggle to adjust to the mentality of just making it work and rapid iteration.
    There is a lot of truth in this. I've heard it from colleagues throughout my long public sector career, I know for a fact they are wrong because I previously worked in the private sector and saw how it really was.

    However, the real difference in take home pay is between self employment/owning your own business and being employed; because of the tax advantages of the former.
    "Public sector" is quite wide ranging though isn't it? Teachers don't seem to have much of an issue. Hence why there are more not teaching than teaching.
    And no private sector job has a "just make it work and rapid iteration" situation quite like having to face down 30 plus hormonal six foot sixteen year olds for 50 minutes when they are determined to kick off.
    "Pitches" to groups of besuited business people, having had a full week to prepare, are understandably a bit of a piece of piss to say the least in comparison.
    Particularly when it’s once a week not five times a day.
    Yes indeed. Teachings so cushy. Couldn't cope in the private sector. Except the majority of teachers actually are doing.
    I’ve worked in both the private and the public sector. Neither is perfect, but on the whole I found private easier.

    Admittedly, for much of the time I was my own boss and the pay was shit.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,418

    NEW THREAD

    Where?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175
    Foxy said:

    tlg86 said:

    dixiedean said:

    The message I got from the Boris interview is that the government are actively creating inflation. Higher wages,higher taxes on employment, companies, lots of new taxes, more spending by government.

    This would also indicate higher interest rates.

    Will this hit prior to the next general election?

    Except. As I have pointed out, in the only bit they are directly responsible for, the Public Sector.
    Here, they are intent on enforcing well below inflation rises. With higher taxes.
    Is a wave of strikes the next Culture War plan? Cos it seems likely.
    Never put down to malice what can be explained by stupidity, I guess.

    But someone needs to ask the government if the "high wage" thing applies to people employed by the government.
    It would help public sector workers if they were a bit more keen to vote with their feet.
    The Nursing and support worker shortage in my Trust suggests that they have voted with their feet...
    Good for them.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,346
    ydoethur said:

    malcolmg said:

    ydoethur said:

    Anyway, in important news:

    57% of our electricity currently generated by wind and solar.

    Even though I presume domestic gas use is rising substantially as the weather turns colder, that should ease the pressure on electricity prices somewhat.

    Hopefully it will be kept up for a few days looking at the forecast.

    Scotland is much higher than 57%
    Unless you have left the UK energy market when I wasn’t looking that isn’t relevant.
    @ydoethur, your imperial colonial response highlights why we need independence. As a colony we provide the cheap electricity for The Imperial Masters and yet pay the most for it.
  • ydoethur said:

    NEW THREAD

    Where?
    There on the stair.

    (And in answer to the public-private thing, there are plenty of managers who have moved each way and died on their arse.

    Different challenges. In particular, how do you motivate people who aren't that interested in money and you have no money to splash anyway?)
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,418
    malcolmg said:

    ydoethur said:

    malcolmg said:

    ydoethur said:

    Anyway, in important news:

    57% of our electricity currently generated by wind and solar.

    Even though I presume domestic gas use is rising substantially as the weather turns colder, that should ease the pressure on electricity prices somewhat.

    Hopefully it will be kept up for a few days looking at the forecast.

    Scotland is much higher than 57%
    Unless you have left the UK energy market when I wasn’t looking that isn’t relevant.
    @ydoethur, your imperial colonial response highlights why we need independence. As a colony we provide the cheap electricity for The Imperial Masters and yet pay the most for it.
    What, the English? But I’m not English, Malc…
  • Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    FF43 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Carnyx said:

    MattW said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Charles said:

    Cyclefree said:

    tlg86 said:

    nico679 said:

    Astonishing comments by Bozo re pigs . Jaw dropping .

    Marr approached it from the wrong angle. He should have approached it from a food shortage POV.
    What did he say?
    Marr complained 120,000 pigs are going to be slaughtered because of a shortage of labour in abattoirs

    Boris said (paraphrase) (a) the food industry kills a lot of pigs and (b) the most important thing to do is fix the labour shortages through addressing pay & automation
    I hold Johnson to be of less worth than any one of those 120,000 pigs but that doesn't seem like an unreasonable answer.
    Marr somewhat playing shlock! horror! games here.

    Putting this in context. Telltale the actual number from the National Pig Association is 100k-120k, and tabloid Marr chose the upper limit for sensation, as often happens.

    Putting this into context, 120,000 pigs is about 3-4 days of production in the UK. That is, about 1% of annual production.

    Not really a "mass culling".

    Foot and Mouth was a "mass culling". Or mink in Denmark.

    Overall, another blood-curdling story from an industry lobby that does not quite match the reality.

    Rather like the Food Trade Federations misleading "disaster" narrative.
    Even so, throwing out half a week's worth of supply is bad economics. What would Mrs T have said?

    Also - if things don't get better then it will happen again.
    @DavidL has repeatedly made the point that the Single Market has been bad for Britain because it has resulted in too many imports. He usually posts the figures.

    If so, why is it a good thing to have more imports (of pig meat, say) because we can't slaughter our own and have to throw them away? I don't get it. If his analysis is correct we should be making it easier for domestic sectors not harder. But the uber-keen Brexiteers like @Philip_Thompson seem not to be worried by increasing imports.

    ???
    If its not economical to produce pigs in the UK then the land, labour and capital should be used on something it is economical to produce.
    A use well always be found for the land. However stopping pig production doesn't mean a substitution by higher value production. That's illogical. The higher value production would be happening anyway in that case. Stopping production just means we will collectively be a bit poorer and the pig farmer a lot poorer.
    If the climate change activists have their way pig production for meat consumptions will be banned
    If God didn’t want us to eat pigs, why did He make them out of bacon?
    It has so many nitrates and nitrites in it that it's basically poison. Group 1 carcinogen. You might as well smerk tabs.
    Finding bacon, chorizo, etc that isn't full of chemicals is a challenge.
    If you find any food at all that isn’t made of chemicals there is probably a Nobel Prize waiting for you.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,686
    edited October 2021
    Duplicate
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,586
    Scott_xP said:

    How can "we are not going to open the taps on uncontrolled low-skilled immigration" be a response to UK shortages of HGV drivers and butchers?

    Reason gov't has been unable to compensate for these shortages is *quite fucking literally* that they require highly skilled people.


    https://twitter.com/sturdyAlex/status/1444644388794159105

    So why were these “highly-skilled people”, being paid barely minimum wage?
This discussion has been closed.