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Now Smarkets has a market on a LOCAL council by-election – politicalbetting.com

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Comments

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,308
    UK cases by specimen date and scaled to 100K

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  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,308
    UK local R

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  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,198
    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    IanB2 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Petrol shortage: No improvement in fuel supplies
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58747281

    I am just finishing a journey from Kent to Berkshire and back to the island, and things look as bad as at the weekend
    Petrol is fine in South Yorkshire where I've been for a few days. Completely normal. Also noticeable is a big difference in mask wearing. They've pretty much ditched them up here.
    Here in the Midlands petrol still massive issue - "no fuel" signs still present.

    Masks only really encountered in any number in health care settings.

    In health care settings plus the tools on the Labour benches in the Commons. Turns my stomach, but I'd be interested in your *honest* opinion of that @kinabalu - you were always with me on the Freedom Day thing after all.
    I'd be happy to see the back of masks now but it doesn't really bug me to see them and I'm still wearing them in places where it's the norm, poodle that I am.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,095
    kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    IanB2 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Petrol shortage: No improvement in fuel supplies
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58747281

    I am just finishing a journey from Kent to Berkshire and back to the island, and things look as bad as at the weekend
    Petrol is fine in South Yorkshire where I've been for a few days. Completely normal. Also noticeable is a big difference in mask wearing. They've pretty much ditched them up here.
    Here in the Midlands petrol still massive issue - "no fuel" signs still present.

    Masks only really encountered in any number in health care settings.

    In health care settings plus the tools on the Labour benches in the Commons. Turns my stomach, but I'd be interested in your *honest* opinion of that @kinabalu - you were always with me on the Freedom Day thing after all.
    I'd be happy to see the back of masks now but it doesn't really bug me to see them and I'm still wearing them in places where it's the norm, poodle that I am.
    At the vets, then ?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957

    Alistair said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Quite the thread here.

    I had a trial yesterday where a 17 year old black girl (who had committed NO crime and has no criminal record) was grabbed and wrestled to the floor and handcuffed by two officers for “talking back” when she (correctly) said to them “you can’t do this” and asked them to step back

    The officers were caught on CCTV stepping up to her right in her face (August last year - height of the pandemic) with no masks on and loudly telling her off (for something that isn’t a crime). After she backed off the third time whilst repeatedly saying “back off” they pounced.

    This happened in broad daylight in Birmingham New Street station and everyone assumed the officers were in the right and a member of the public even came over to help the two officers who were sitting on top of her to restrain her.

    She screamed out in pain and asked 21 times either “Why are you doing this to me?” or “What have I done?” and they didn’t reply to tell her why they were doing it or what she was said to have done.

    Eventually one of them says she’s under arrest for assaulting them.

    They lied throughout their evidence and said she had moved towards them aggressively and tried to hit one of them.

    Two separate angles on the video show she does no such thing and is continuously backing off from them and looks scared.

    Thankfully the case against her was thrown out, but quite frankly it’s theofficers who should’ve been prosecuted for assault. Had I not been able to get CCTV camera footage from the station it would’ve been her word against theirs and she would no doubt have been convicted.....

    ...The officers continued to assert throughout the trial that their actions were justified.

    This is the problem.

    This is the culture we have to deal with.

    THIS IS WHY I GET SICK OF PEOPLE ASKING ME HOW I CAN “DEFEND CRIMINALS”.

    P.S. A good illustration of the level of arrogance of one of the officers and their feeling that they are above the law: the Judge had to warn the officer about their conduct IN COURT and it continued so the Judge THREATENED TO LOCK THE OFFICER UP FOR CONTEMPT OF COURT.

    The prosecutor, the clerk, the Judge, me - and several of my colleagues I spoke to - all of us with over 20 years experience in criminal trials - have NEVER seen an officer behave so badly that they were threatened with contempt.

    Yet they are on patrol in New Street again today

    If it’s any consolation our civil team are now going to take action against the police and I suspect one or both of them won’t be officers for much longer but hey - we represented the De Menezes family and no fucker lost their job when they killed a lad.


    https://twitter.com/JudgeDewie/status/1443506723881422848

    To think the police used to be widely respected in this country, not that long ago.
    And then we had cctv and mobile phone cameras....
    Since the advent of ubiquitous video camera ownership we've had no greater evidence of Big Foot or Nessie but amazingly a massive increase in the evidence of Police Brutality and Illegality.
    Oh, I don't know.

    In my youth we had the entertainment of the West Midland Serious Crime Squad.

    Who turned out to be committing a serious proportion of the Serious Crimes in the West Midlands.

    "By God, this police unit is well-named" as Sir Harry Esson might have said...
    And interestingly the judge in the Couzens case was directly involved in the WMSCS. According to his wiki page.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,308
    UK case summary

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  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,198
    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    IanB2 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Petrol shortage: No improvement in fuel supplies
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58747281

    I am just finishing a journey from Kent to Berkshire and back to the island, and things look as bad as at the weekend
    Petrol is fine in South Yorkshire where I've been for a few days. Completely normal. Also noticeable is a big difference in mask wearing. They've pretty much ditched them up here.
    Here in the Midlands petrol still massive issue - "no fuel" signs still present.

    Masks only really encountered in any number in health care settings.

    In health care settings plus the tools on the Labour benches in the Commons. Turns my stomach, but I'd be interested in your *honest* opinion of that @kinabalu - you were always with me on the Freedom Day thing after all.
    I'd be happy to see the back of masks now but it doesn't really bug me to see them and I'm still wearing them in places where it's the norm, poodle that I am.
    At the vets, then ?
    He pounces - :smile:
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,308
    UK Hospitals

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  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,308
    UK deaths

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  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,308
    UK R

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  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,308
    Age related data

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    image
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  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,308
    Age related data scaled to 100K

    image
    image
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468

    TimT said:

    Quite the thread here.

    I had a trial yesterday where a 17 year old black girl (who had committed NO crime and has no criminal record) was grabbed and wrestled to the floor and handcuffed by two officers for “talking back” when she (correctly) said to them “you can’t do this” and asked them to step back

    The officers were caught on CCTV stepping up to her right in her face (August last year - height of the pandemic) with no masks on and loudly telling her off (for something that isn’t a crime). After she backed off the third time whilst repeatedly saying “back off” they pounced.

    This happened in broad daylight in Birmingham New Street station and everyone assumed the officers were in the right and a member of the public even came over to help the two officers who were sitting on top of her to restrain her.

    She screamed out in pain and asked 21 times either “Why are you doing this to me?” or “What have I done?” and they didn’t reply to tell her why they were doing it or what she was said to have done.

    Eventually one of them says she’s under arrest for assaulting them.

    They lied throughout their evidence and said she had moved towards them aggressively and tried to hit one of them.

    Two separate angles on the video show she does no such thing and is continuously backing off from them and looks scared.

    Thankfully the case against her was thrown out, but quite frankly it’s theofficers who should’ve been prosecuted for assault. Had I not been able to get CCTV camera footage from the station it would’ve been her word against theirs and she would no doubt have been convicted.....

    ...The officers continued to assert throughout the trial that their actions were justified.

    This is the problem.

    This is the culture we have to deal with.

    THIS IS WHY I GET SICK OF PEOPLE ASKING ME HOW I CAN “DEFEND CRIMINALS”.

    P.S. A good illustration of the level of arrogance of one of the officers and their feeling that they are above the law: the Judge had to warn the officer about their conduct IN COURT and it continued so the Judge THREATENED TO LOCK THE OFFICER UP FOR CONTEMPT OF COURT.

    The prosecutor, the clerk, the Judge, me - and several of my colleagues I spoke to - all of us with over 20 years experience in criminal trials - have NEVER seen an officer behave so badly that they were threatened with contempt.

    Yet they are on patrol in New Street again today

    If it’s any consolation our civil team are now going to take action against the police and I suspect one or both of them won’t be officers for much longer but hey - we represented the De Menezes family and no fucker lost their job when they killed a lad.


    https://twitter.com/JudgeDewie/status/1443506723881422848

    That is the key. The bad cops have to lose their jobs and be open to both civil and criminal prosecution. And their bosses, if they serially fail to attend to such failures, should lose their jobs and, depending on their own level of negligence, be open to similar prosecution.
    A part of the problem runs thus -

    The cops on the ground are convinced that if something goes wrong, their superiors will stitch them up. There is no trust in the Senior Management Team.

    In turn there is a widespread belief that there is no way that a senior officer would end up carrying the can - that they would pass the buck to junior officers.

    In the case of De Mendes, the odd bit is that the police on the ground, who actually shot him were blameless. They were carrying out orders which they had reason to believe were lawful and necessary. It was the fuck up with the surveillance and the control of the operation which was the problem.

    Which comes back to the doctrine of command responsibility. Where someone in authority can be guilty, but the subordinates who carried out what they thought were lawful orders are not.

    The problem is that the police have been convinced that either they all hang together or they all hang separately. Hence the omertà...

    How to deal with that?
    Wholesale removal of the top commanders who are ultimately responsible for their command's culture.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,095
    TimT said:

    TimT said:

    Quite the thread here.

    I had a trial yesterday where a 17 year old black girl (who had committed NO crime and has no criminal record) was grabbed and wrestled to the floor and handcuffed by two officers for “talking back” when she (correctly) said to them “you can’t do this” and asked them to step back

    The officers were caught on CCTV stepping up to her right in her face (August last year - height of the pandemic) with no masks on and loudly telling her off (for something that isn’t a crime). After she backed off the third time whilst repeatedly saying “back off” they pounced.

    This happened in broad daylight in Birmingham New Street station and everyone assumed the officers were in the right and a member of the public even came over to help the two officers who were sitting on top of her to restrain her.

    She screamed out in pain and asked 21 times either “Why are you doing this to me?” or “What have I done?” and they didn’t reply to tell her why they were doing it or what she was said to have done.

    Eventually one of them says she’s under arrest for assaulting them.

    They lied throughout their evidence and said she had moved towards them aggressively and tried to hit one of them.

    Two separate angles on the video show she does no such thing and is continuously backing off from them and looks scared.

    Thankfully the case against her was thrown out, but quite frankly it’s theofficers who should’ve been prosecuted for assault. Had I not been able to get CCTV camera footage from the station it would’ve been her word against theirs and she would no doubt have been convicted.....

    ...The officers continued to assert throughout the trial that their actions were justified.

    This is the problem.

    This is the culture we have to deal with.

    THIS IS WHY I GET SICK OF PEOPLE ASKING ME HOW I CAN “DEFEND CRIMINALS”.

    P.S. A good illustration of the level of arrogance of one of the officers and their feeling that they are above the law: the Judge had to warn the officer about their conduct IN COURT and it continued so the Judge THREATENED TO LOCK THE OFFICER UP FOR CONTEMPT OF COURT.

    The prosecutor, the clerk, the Judge, me - and several of my colleagues I spoke to - all of us with over 20 years experience in criminal trials - have NEVER seen an officer behave so badly that they were threatened with contempt.

    Yet they are on patrol in New Street again today

    If it’s any consolation our civil team are now going to take action against the police and I suspect one or both of them won’t be officers for much longer but hey - we represented the De Menezes family and no fucker lost their job when they killed a lad.


    https://twitter.com/JudgeDewie/status/1443506723881422848

    That is the key. The bad cops have to lose their jobs and be open to both civil and criminal prosecution. And their bosses, if they serially fail to attend to such failures, should lose their jobs and, depending on their own level of negligence, be open to similar prosecution.
    A part of the problem runs thus -

    The cops on the ground are convinced that if something goes wrong, their superiors will stitch them up. There is no trust in the Senior Management Team.

    In turn there is a widespread belief that there is no way that a senior officer would end up carrying the can - that they would pass the buck to junior officers.

    In the case of De Mendes, the odd bit is that the police on the ground, who actually shot him were blameless. They were carrying out orders which they had reason to believe were lawful and necessary. It was the fuck up with the surveillance and the control of the operation which was the problem.

    Which comes back to the doctrine of command responsibility. Where someone in authority can be guilty, but the subordinates who carried out what they thought were lawful orders are not.

    The problem is that the police have been convinced that either they all hang together or they all hang separately. Hence the omertà...

    How to deal with that?
    Wholesale removal of the top commanders who are ultimately responsible for their command's culture.
    If that includes the PM, Home Secretary and Mayor of London as well, I second that.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,288
    COVID pressures:

    Upwards:
    - Deterioration of weather since around 20/9 increasing R rate. Long range forecast is for temperatures probably to be stable around current level during October.
    - 5-10 year old rate still curving upwards
    - University returns and relatively low current rates in core cities that have potential to increase
    - Trickle return of office workers continuing (I've been back on a part time basis since 20/9).

    To early to tell:
    - Case rate trajectories in English small town and rural areas, has been up, may be slowing
    -Scotland and NI still trending downwards, but could be troughing
    -Whether levels can remain suppressed in higher immunity non-city areas, esp SE Lancs, N Kent.
    - Whether levels can stay moderate in Southern England
    - Will older cohorts start to curve upwards as in previous waves: the critical factor in whether the current hospitalisation reduction will reverse

    Downwards:
    - 10-15 year old cohorts, which is the driver of current increases, clearly cresting.

    Of course, much interrelatedness between these. Week on weeks still slightly up by reporting date and by sample date at best level for the days whose numbers have filled out.

    I think we'll hit school half term holidays with around 40-60% higher case rates than current, hospitalisations 10-20% higher and rising and deaths 10-20% lower than current but level.

    Mainly due to lagging rather than booster / secondary school vaccination - the effects of that will come through later.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,729
    edited September 2021

    Selebian said:

    PB brains trust query:
    We're currently getting quotes for building work, substantial extension, probably be towards £100k, so we want it done right. Just had someone round to quote who is doing work down the road. A bit of Googling has revealed the company in question was incorporated in 2020 and the person we spoke to (owner) had a previous building company which underwent creditors voluntary liquidation in 2020 at around the same time. We'll obviously ask about this if we consider going further, but is it - on the face of it - sketchy? Or might there be quite innocuous explanations?

    (We just got this guy in as an 'extra' quote really - already had builder round who did a big extension for sister-in-law and have a couple more reccommended by architect, but they're proving hard to pin down. We want at least a few quotes to compare, but would most likely go for the guy we know most about unless there are good reasons to choose someone else)

    I'm not that experienced but thats a warning sign in case things go wrong. Double glazing companies (for instance) can offer long guarantees, then the company (Turbotubbs Glazing) folds, so null and void. Next week you get a flyer from Tubbsturbo Glazing...
    Yep. Hopefully academic, assuming we (a) manage to get a quote fom someone else reputable and (b) it doesn't make us faint. The backup plan is moving house - should in principle cost a similar amount or even more, but given the prices of materials at the moment, maybe not... If it wasn't for our unusually large garden and views over open fields* (trigger warning for Philip :wink: ) we'd probably just move, but similar benefits are rare in our budget and within cycling distance of work, very near family etc.

    *Actually the open fields are likely to get built on in the next year or two, but the new houses will still be a flood plain and river away, which means 100m from our garden and 150m or so from the house, so it will still be a nice spot. I don't even really object to the houses per se, but it is a shame that it looks to be just houses - add a school, park, decent footpaths/cyclepaths into town and I'd be in favour.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,308
    TimT said:

    TimT said:

    Quite the thread here.

    I had a trial yesterday where a 17 year old black girl (who had committed NO crime and has no criminal record) was grabbed and wrestled to the floor and handcuffed by two officers for “talking back” when she (correctly) said to them “you can’t do this” and asked them to step back

    The officers were caught on CCTV stepping up to her right in her face (August last year - height of the pandemic) with no masks on and loudly telling her off (for something that isn’t a crime). After she backed off the third time whilst repeatedly saying “back off” they pounced.

    This happened in broad daylight in Birmingham New Street station and everyone assumed the officers were in the right and a member of the public even came over to help the two officers who were sitting on top of her to restrain her.

    She screamed out in pain and asked 21 times either “Why are you doing this to me?” or “What have I done?” and they didn’t reply to tell her why they were doing it or what she was said to have done.

    Eventually one of them says she’s under arrest for assaulting them.

    They lied throughout their evidence and said she had moved towards them aggressively and tried to hit one of them.

    Two separate angles on the video show she does no such thing and is continuously backing off from them and looks scared.

    Thankfully the case against her was thrown out, but quite frankly it’s theofficers who should’ve been prosecuted for assault. Had I not been able to get CCTV camera footage from the station it would’ve been her word against theirs and she would no doubt have been convicted.....

    ...The officers continued to assert throughout the trial that their actions were justified.

    This is the problem.

    This is the culture we have to deal with.

    THIS IS WHY I GET SICK OF PEOPLE ASKING ME HOW I CAN “DEFEND CRIMINALS”.

    P.S. A good illustration of the level of arrogance of one of the officers and their feeling that they are above the law: the Judge had to warn the officer about their conduct IN COURT and it continued so the Judge THREATENED TO LOCK THE OFFICER UP FOR CONTEMPT OF COURT.

    The prosecutor, the clerk, the Judge, me - and several of my colleagues I spoke to - all of us with over 20 years experience in criminal trials - have NEVER seen an officer behave so badly that they were threatened with contempt.

    Yet they are on patrol in New Street again today

    If it’s any consolation our civil team are now going to take action against the police and I suspect one or both of them won’t be officers for much longer but hey - we represented the De Menezes family and no fucker lost their job when they killed a lad.


    https://twitter.com/JudgeDewie/status/1443506723881422848

    That is the key. The bad cops have to lose their jobs and be open to both civil and criminal prosecution. And their bosses, if they serially fail to attend to such failures, should lose their jobs and, depending on their own level of negligence, be open to similar prosecution.
    A part of the problem runs thus -

    The cops on the ground are convinced that if something goes wrong, their superiors will stitch them up. There is no trust in the Senior Management Team.

    In turn there is a widespread belief that there is no way that a senior officer would end up carrying the can - that they would pass the buck to junior officers.

    In the case of De Mendes, the odd bit is that the police on the ground, who actually shot him were blameless. They were carrying out orders which they had reason to believe were lawful and necessary. It was the fuck up with the surveillance and the control of the operation which was the problem.

    Which comes back to the doctrine of command responsibility. Where someone in authority can be guilty, but the subordinates who carried out what they thought were lawful orders are not.

    The problem is that the police have been convinced that either they all hang together or they all hang separately. Hence the omertà...

    How to deal with that?
    Wholesale removal of the top commanders who are ultimately responsible for their command's culture.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=381Di8Cw0-I
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Age related data scaled to 100K

    There's a real "Children and their parents" vibe appearing the heat maps of the hardest hit places in England at the moment. Intense purple across 5-19 then a gap before 35-55 lights up in purple.
  • Nigelb said:

    Petrol shortage: No improvement in fuel supplies
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58747281

    They must be lying. Philip_Thompson assured us that it'd all be over in 2-3 days.
    Both appear to be right. Things have improved overall. Things have not improved with some independents especially BP ones.
    "improved overall" != "all over"
    Sure it is. There's always been some stations at some times without fuel which is why this mass hysteria over a few not having it was so utterly irresponsible.

    Largely stations are back to normal and anyone who wants fuel can get it.
    According the the PRA, over a quarter of their members are still without fuel. That is not a normal situation, and it's weird of you to make out that it is. Every other country in the world is pointing and laughing at us.
    Are you sure you are not over egging it, every country in the world !!!
    True, some have a little more consideration. They are merely smirking behind their hands.
    You don't think other countries have their own issues they ought to be concerned about rather than worrying about us? Yours seems rather an egocentric viewpoint.
    They're not worrying about us; they're laughing at us. We provide a little light relief from their own problems. You can't tell me you wouldn't be doing the same if it were French drivers queuing for petrol.
    I absolutely can say that.

    The French have issues and protests and violence on a weekly violence with the Gilets Jaunes etc

    I don't mention them at all, its none of my business and I don't especially care. Let them sort their own issues out and we can sort our own out.

    You seem rather obsessed though. Not me.
    I'm merely pointing out your detachment from the reality that the rest of the world can see. We are not, as you seem to imagine, back to normal. A quarter of our petrol stations still have no fuel. This is not normal and it's delusional for you to claim otherwise.
  • sladeslade Posts: 2,041
    Britain has a new world record holder. Joss Lowden has taken the world female hour record in cycling at a distance of 48.406 kilometers.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,308
    Farooq said:

    The people who get angry at others wearing masks
    ===
    the people who get angry at someone doing 30 in a 30 zone.

    This is how to deal with people who honk their horns at people doing 30 in a 30 zone

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ui4iWdqG3_A
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,104
    Farooq said:

    The people who get angry at others wearing masks
    ===
    the people who get angry at someone doing 30 in a 30 zone.

    Not sure that quite works. People shouldn't get mad at people choosing to wear masks, but presumably it is ok to express that it is, in one's own opinion, the wrong choice (though it is a bit dickish), whereas being mad at someone for following the law is just entirely irrational.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,095
    Might the Morocco--UK solar project actually go ahead now ?
    This autumn's fun and games in the energy markets might just provide the impetus.

    https://reneweconomy.com.au/massive-10-5gw-wind-solar-and-battery-project-in-morocco-to-send-power-to-uk/
    ...Xlinks is hoping to secure its capacity into Great Britain via the UK Government’s Contracts for Difference (CfD) mechanism – which this month unveiled that it would support a range of technologies in its fourth round.

    But it insists that apart from this it will not require government subsidy or financing, and will still be able to deliver electricity at the £48/MWh CfD – below the central forecast for energy prices proposed by the UK Department for Business, Energy & Strategy (BEIS).

    The aptly named Morocco – UK Power Project will, in addition to its 3,800km HVDC sub-sea cable, build its wind and solar capacity across an area of approximately 1,500 square km in Morocco’s Guelmim Oued Noun region.

    “Xlinks is a Morocco – British first,” said Sir Dave Lewis, the the executive chair of Xlinks and a former Tesco CEO. “Using proven technology, it will deliver clean power to over 7 million British homes in this decade....
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,308
    Alistair said:

    Age related data scaled to 100K

    There's a real "Children and their parents" vibe appearing the heat maps of the hardest hit places in England at the moment. Intense purple across 5-19 then a gap before 35-55 lights up in purple.
    Worth remembering that the parents will often be tested more, when the children LFTs light up and say "tilt"
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,104
    Took a while to come to light.

    A system to manipulate the outcome of boxing matches by officials was in place at the Rio 2016 Olympics, an independent investigation has found.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/boxing/58747880
  • Nigelb said:

    Petrol shortage: No improvement in fuel supplies
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58747281

    They must be lying. Philip_Thompson assured us that it'd all be over in 2-3 days.
    Both appear to be right. Things have improved overall. Things have not improved with some independents especially BP ones.
    "improved overall" != "all over"
    Sure it is. There's always been some stations at some times without fuel which is why this mass hysteria over a few not having it was so utterly irresponsible.

    Largely stations are back to normal and anyone who wants fuel can get it.
    According the the PRA, over a quarter of their members are still without fuel. That is not a normal situation, and it's weird of you to make out that it is. Every other country in the world is pointing and laughing at us.
    Are you sure you are not over egging it, every country in the world !!!
    True, some have a little more consideration. They are merely smirking behind their hands.
    You don't think other countries have their own issues they ought to be concerned about rather than worrying about us? Yours seems rather an egocentric viewpoint.
    They're not worrying about us; they're laughing at us. We provide a little light relief from their own problems. You can't tell me you wouldn't be doing the same if it were French drivers queuing for petrol.
    I absolutely can say that.

    The French have issues and protests and violence on a weekly violence with the Gilets Jaunes etc

    I don't mention them at all, its none of my business and I don't especially care. Let them sort their own issues out and we can sort our own out.

    You seem rather obsessed though. Not me.
    I'm merely pointing out your detachment from the reality that the rest of the world can see. We are not, as you seem to imagine, back to normal. A quarter of our petrol stations still have no fuel. This is not normal and it's delusional for you to claim otherwise.
    That was due to a scare leading to panic buying though. Not a shortage.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,104
    Farooq said:

    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:

    The people who get angry at others wearing masks
    ===
    the people who get angry at someone doing 30 in a 30 zone.

    Not sure that quite works. People shouldn't get mad at people choosing to wear masks, but presumably it is ok to express that it is, in one's own opinion, the wrong choice (though it is a bit dickish), whereas being mad at someone for following the law is just entirely irrational.
    Where I live, wearing face masks in shops etc. is still the law.
    Fair enough.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957

    Nigelb said:

    Petrol shortage: No improvement in fuel supplies
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58747281

    They must be lying. Philip_Thompson assured us that it'd all be over in 2-3 days.
    Both appear to be right. Things have improved overall. Things have not improved with some independents especially BP ones.
    "improved overall" != "all over"
    Sure it is. There's always been some stations at some times without fuel which is why this mass hysteria over a few not having it was so utterly irresponsible.

    Largely stations are back to normal and anyone who wants fuel can get it.
    According the the PRA, over a quarter of their members are still without fuel. That is not a normal situation, and it's weird of you to make out that it is. Every other country in the world is pointing and laughing at us.
    Are you sure you are not over egging it, every country in the world !!!
    True, some have a little more consideration. They are merely smirking behind their hands.
    You don't think other countries have their own issues they ought to be concerned about rather than worrying about us? Yours seems rather an egocentric viewpoint.
    They're not worrying about us; they're laughing at us. We provide a little light relief from their own problems. You can't tell me you wouldn't be doing the same if it were French drivers queuing for petrol.
    I absolutely can say that.

    The French have issues and protests and violence on a weekly violence with the Gilets Jaunes etc

    I don't mention them at all, its none of my business and I don't especially care. Let them sort their own issues out and we can sort our own out.

    You seem rather obsessed though. Not me.
    I'm merely pointing out your detachment from the reality that the rest of the world can see. We are not, as you seem to imagine, back to normal. A quarter of our petrol stations still have no fuel. This is not normal and it's delusional for you to claim otherwise.
    That was due to a scare leading to panic buying though. Not a shortage.
    There was a shortage of drivers AIUI. Or was that just fake news.
  • TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    Petrol shortage: No improvement in fuel supplies
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58747281

    They must be lying. Philip_Thompson assured us that it'd all be over in 2-3 days.
    Both appear to be right. Things have improved overall. Things have not improved with some independents especially BP ones.
    "improved overall" != "all over"
    Sure it is. There's always been some stations at some times without fuel which is why this mass hysteria over a few not having it was so utterly irresponsible.

    Largely stations are back to normal and anyone who wants fuel can get it.
    According the the PRA, over a quarter of their members are still without fuel. That is not a normal situation, and it's weird of you to make out that it is. Every other country in the world is pointing and laughing at us.
    Are you sure you are not over egging it, every country in the world !!!
    True, some have a little more consideration. They are merely smirking behind their hands.
    You don't think other countries have their own issues they ought to be concerned about rather than worrying about us? Yours seems rather an egocentric viewpoint.
    They're not worrying about us; they're laughing at us. We provide a little light relief from their own problems. You can't tell me you wouldn't be doing the same if it were French drivers queuing for petrol.
    I absolutely can say that.

    The French have issues and protests and violence on a weekly violence with the Gilets Jaunes etc

    I don't mention them at all, its none of my business and I don't especially care. Let them sort their own issues out and we can sort our own out.

    You seem rather obsessed though. Not me.
    I'm merely pointing out your detachment from the reality that the rest of the world can see. We are not, as you seem to imagine, back to normal. A quarter of our petrol stations still have no fuel. This is not normal and it's delusional for you to claim otherwise.
    That was due to a scare leading to panic buying though. Not a shortage.
    There was a shortage of drivers AIUI. Or was that just fake news.
    But enough fuel.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,308

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    Petrol shortage: No improvement in fuel supplies
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58747281

    They must be lying. Philip_Thompson assured us that it'd all be over in 2-3 days.
    Both appear to be right. Things have improved overall. Things have not improved with some independents especially BP ones.
    "improved overall" != "all over"
    Sure it is. There's always been some stations at some times without fuel which is why this mass hysteria over a few not having it was so utterly irresponsible.

    Largely stations are back to normal and anyone who wants fuel can get it.
    According the the PRA, over a quarter of their members are still without fuel. That is not a normal situation, and it's weird of you to make out that it is. Every other country in the world is pointing and laughing at us.
    Are you sure you are not over egging it, every country in the world !!!
    True, some have a little more consideration. They are merely smirking behind their hands.
    You don't think other countries have their own issues they ought to be concerned about rather than worrying about us? Yours seems rather an egocentric viewpoint.
    They're not worrying about us; they're laughing at us. We provide a little light relief from their own problems. You can't tell me you wouldn't be doing the same if it were French drivers queuing for petrol.
    I absolutely can say that.

    The French have issues and protests and violence on a weekly violence with the Gilets Jaunes etc

    I don't mention them at all, its none of my business and I don't especially care. Let them sort their own issues out and we can sort our own out.

    You seem rather obsessed though. Not me.
    I'm merely pointing out your detachment from the reality that the rest of the world can see. We are not, as you seem to imagine, back to normal. A quarter of our petrol stations still have no fuel. This is not normal and it's delusional for you to claim otherwise.
    That was due to a scare leading to panic buying though. Not a shortage.
    There was a shortage of drivers AIUI. Or was that just fake news.
    But enough fuel.
    There was a shortage of drivers, but not a collapse in the system.

    The when everyone tried to fill their tanks at once...
  • Andy_JS said:

    Quite the thread here.

    I had a trial yesterday where a 17 year old black girl (who had committed NO crime and has no criminal record) was grabbed and wrestled to the floor and handcuffed by two officers for “talking back” when she (correctly) said to them “you can’t do this” and asked them to step back

    The officers were caught on CCTV stepping up to her right in her face (August last year - height of the pandemic) with no masks on and loudly telling her off (for something that isn’t a crime). After she backed off the third time whilst repeatedly saying “back off” they pounced.

    This happened in broad daylight in Birmingham New Street station and everyone assumed the officers were in the right and a member of the public even came over to help the two officers who were sitting on top of her to restrain her.

    She screamed out in pain and asked 21 times either “Why are you doing this to me?” or “What have I done?” and they didn’t reply to tell her why they were doing it or what she was said to have done.

    Eventually one of them says she’s under arrest for assaulting them.

    They lied throughout their evidence and said she had moved towards them aggressively and tried to hit one of them.

    Two separate angles on the video show she does no such thing and is continuously backing off from them and looks scared.

    Thankfully the case against her was thrown out, but quite frankly it’s theofficers who should’ve been prosecuted for assault. Had I not been able to get CCTV camera footage from the station it would’ve been her word against theirs and she would no doubt have been convicted.....

    ...The officers continued to assert throughout the trial that their actions were justified.

    This is the problem.

    This is the culture we have to deal with.

    THIS IS WHY I GET SICK OF PEOPLE ASKING ME HOW I CAN “DEFEND CRIMINALS”.

    P.S. A good illustration of the level of arrogance of one of the officers and their feeling that they are above the law: the Judge had to warn the officer about their conduct IN COURT and it continued so the Judge THREATENED TO LOCK THE OFFICER UP FOR CONTEMPT OF COURT.

    The prosecutor, the clerk, the Judge, me - and several of my colleagues I spoke to - all of us with over 20 years experience in criminal trials - have NEVER seen an officer behave so badly that they were threatened with contempt.

    Yet they are on patrol in New Street again today

    If it’s any consolation our civil team are now going to take action against the police and I suspect one or both of them won’t be officers for much longer but hey - we represented the De Menezes family and no fucker lost their job when they killed a lad.


    https://twitter.com/JudgeDewie/status/1443506723881422848

    To think the police used to be widely respected in this country, not that long ago.
    And then we had cctv and mobile phone cameras....
    Why do you think the police ban camera drones from the vicinity of large demonstrations and protests?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,104
    Pretty sure if I make it that far I won't have the energy or capacity to make a break for it like this

    A former secretary at a Nazi concentration camp has been captured after trying to flee before her trial in northern Germany.

    Irmgard Furchner, 96, was due to stand trial for complicity in 11,000 murders, but she failed to turn up and the judge issued a warrant for her arrest.

    The defendant was detained by police hours after disappearing from a nursing home in the town of Quickborn
    .

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-58747082
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    Petrol shortage: No improvement in fuel supplies
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58747281

    They must be lying. Philip_Thompson assured us that it'd all be over in 2-3 days.
    Both appear to be right. Things have improved overall. Things have not improved with some independents especially BP ones.
    "improved overall" != "all over"
    Sure it is. There's always been some stations at some times without fuel which is why this mass hysteria over a few not having it was so utterly irresponsible.

    Largely stations are back to normal and anyone who wants fuel can get it.
    According the the PRA, over a quarter of their members are still without fuel. That is not a normal situation, and it's weird of you to make out that it is. Every other country in the world is pointing and laughing at us.
    Are you sure you are not over egging it, every country in the world !!!
    True, some have a little more consideration. They are merely smirking behind their hands.
    You don't think other countries have their own issues they ought to be concerned about rather than worrying about us? Yours seems rather an egocentric viewpoint.
    They're not worrying about us; they're laughing at us. We provide a little light relief from their own problems. You can't tell me you wouldn't be doing the same if it were French drivers queuing for petrol.
    I absolutely can say that.

    The French have issues and protests and violence on a weekly violence with the Gilets Jaunes etc

    I don't mention them at all, its none of my business and I don't especially care. Let them sort their own issues out and we can sort our own out.

    You seem rather obsessed though. Not me.
    I'm merely pointing out your detachment from the reality that the rest of the world can see. We are not, as you seem to imagine, back to normal. A quarter of our petrol stations still have no fuel. This is not normal and it's delusional for you to claim otherwise.
    That was due to a scare leading to panic buying though. Not a shortage.
    There was a shortage of drivers AIUI. Or was that just fake news.
    But enough fuel.
    Yes. At the refineries. Do you accept there was a shortage of drivers? And if you do, do you think that a shortage of drivers might cause a shortage of fuel at the pumps.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,104
    edited September 2021
    Cyclefree said:

    Time to appoint me Commissioner of the Met (or possibly Cyclefree).

    Either way we'd ensure proper reform of the rozzers.

    women who'll take no shit from anyone.
    Shouldn't put that on your business cards, scares 'em off.

    On the more serious point, I'm not sure how one addresses 'pornification'. In some ways we're more prudish in mainstream materials, but extreme things are more accessible and equally its more common to hear the 'right' things being said, you mention respect training, but it doesn't seem to eliminate specific trends growing.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,667
    Nigelb said:

    Might the Morocco--UK solar project actually go ahead now ?
    This autumn's fun and games in the energy markets might just provide the impetus.

    https://reneweconomy.com.au/massive-10-5gw-wind-solar-and-battery-project-in-morocco-to-send-power-to-uk/
    ...Xlinks is hoping to secure its capacity into Great Britain via the UK Government’s Contracts for Difference (CfD) mechanism – which this month unveiled that it would support a range of technologies in its fourth round.

    But it insists that apart from this it will not require government subsidy or financing, and will still be able to deliver electricity at the £48/MWh CfD – below the central forecast for energy prices proposed by the UK Department for Business, Energy & Strategy (BEIS).

    The aptly named Morocco – UK Power Project will, in addition to its 3,800km HVDC sub-sea cable, build its wind and solar capacity across an area of approximately 1,500 square km in Morocco’s Guelmim Oued Noun region.

    “Xlinks is a Morocco – British first,” said Sir Dave Lewis, the the executive chair of Xlinks and a former Tesco CEO. “Using proven technology, it will deliver clean power to over 7 million British homes in this decade....

    Interesting. How much does that cable cost per km, I wonder?

    Also, I appreciate the middle of the Bay of Biscay is deep but why do they choose to lay the cable around the coast, why not in a direct line from Morroco to Finisterre to Cornwall?

    image
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,104
    edited September 2021

    Nigelb said:

    Might the Morocco--UK solar project actually go ahead now ?
    This autumn's fun and games in the energy markets might just provide the impetus.

    https://reneweconomy.com.au/massive-10-5gw-wind-solar-and-battery-project-in-morocco-to-send-power-to-uk/
    ...Xlinks is hoping to secure its capacity into Great Britain via the UK Government’s Contracts for Difference (CfD) mechanism – which this month unveiled that it would support a range of technologies in its fourth round.

    But it insists that apart from this it will not require government subsidy or financing, and will still be able to deliver electricity at the £48/MWh CfD – below the central forecast for energy prices proposed by the UK Department for Business, Energy & Strategy (BEIS).

    The aptly named Morocco – UK Power Project will, in addition to its 3,800km HVDC sub-sea cable, build its wind and solar capacity across an area of approximately 1,500 square km in Morocco’s Guelmim Oued Noun region.

    “Xlinks is a Morocco – British first,” said Sir Dave Lewis, the the executive chair of Xlinks and a former Tesco CEO. “Using proven technology, it will deliver clean power to over 7 million British homes in this decade....

    Interesting. How much does that cable cost per km, I wonder?

    Also, I appreciate the middle of the Bay of Biscay is deep but why do they choose to lay the cable around the coast, why not in a direct line from Morroco to Finisterre to Cornwall?

    image
    My first thought was I don't know how useful such a zoomed out map is of such a route, as if its main purpose was just to remind us all where Morocco and the UK are in relation to each other.

    Which surely isn't necessary now Raab is not Foreign Minister.

    I see the map is not touching on the Western Sahara controversy.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,346
    Phil said:

    malcolmg said:

    RobD said:

    malcolmg said:

    RobD said:

    malcolmg said:

    Scott_xP said:
    HTF can an ambulance driver be legal for an HGV tanker
    Because ambulences are big and heavy and require the same license as a HGV? It doesn't say anything about tankers.
    I have yet to see a fuel tanker the size of an ambulance. Also an ambulance is not even the size of a Luton if that , it is in no way comparable to a fuel tanker and to boot you need special licence to handle fuel into the bargain. Sounds like any white van man can start driving ambulances.
    Again, no mention of fuel tankers. This is just about HGVs, for which ambulance drivers have the necessary license to drive.
    Bollox , they have LGV C1 nowhere near HGV licences
    Indeed. But you can get dinky little 12 ton fuel tankers which you could drive with a C1 licence, so maybe they have a stack of those parked up somewhere?

    Eg https://www.gdjones.co.uk/en/vehicles

    Edit: Oh wait, those aren’t trailers, so you can’t use the combined weight thing to allow a 12 ton limit.

    Maybe even /smaller/ tankers then? It all sounds a bit pointless doesn’t it?
    For sure
  • Where is the fuel effect

    Survation.

    NEW – Westminster Voting Intention:

    CON 41% (+1)
    LAB 36% (+1)
    LD 8% (-)
    GRN 5% (+1)
    SNP 5% (+1)
    OTH 4% (-4)

    https://survation.com/political-polling-30-september-2021/
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,308
    malcolmg said:

    Phil said:

    malcolmg said:

    RobD said:

    malcolmg said:

    RobD said:

    malcolmg said:

    Scott_xP said:
    HTF can an ambulance driver be legal for an HGV tanker
    Because ambulences are big and heavy and require the same license as a HGV? It doesn't say anything about tankers.
    I have yet to see a fuel tanker the size of an ambulance. Also an ambulance is not even the size of a Luton if that , it is in no way comparable to a fuel tanker and to boot you need special licence to handle fuel into the bargain. Sounds like any white van man can start driving ambulances.
    Again, no mention of fuel tankers. This is just about HGVs, for which ambulance drivers have the necessary license to drive.
    Bollox , they have LGV C1 nowhere near HGV licences
    Indeed. But you can get dinky little 12 ton fuel tankers which you could drive with a C1 licence, so maybe they have a stack of those parked up somewhere?

    Eg https://www.gdjones.co.uk/en/vehicles

    Edit: Oh wait, those aren’t trailers, so you can’t use the combined weight thing to allow a 12 ton limit.

    Maybe even /smaller/ tankers then? It all sounds a bit pointless doesn’t it?
    For sure
    Apparently the letter is being sent to people with a current HGV license.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,667
    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Might the Morocco--UK solar project actually go ahead now ?
    This autumn's fun and games in the energy markets might just provide the impetus.

    https://reneweconomy.com.au/massive-10-5gw-wind-solar-and-battery-project-in-morocco-to-send-power-to-uk/
    ...Xlinks is hoping to secure its capacity into Great Britain via the UK Government’s Contracts for Difference (CfD) mechanism – which this month unveiled that it would support a range of technologies in its fourth round.

    But it insists that apart from this it will not require government subsidy or financing, and will still be able to deliver electricity at the £48/MWh CfD – below the central forecast for energy prices proposed by the UK Department for Business, Energy & Strategy (BEIS).

    The aptly named Morocco – UK Power Project will, in addition to its 3,800km HVDC sub-sea cable, build its wind and solar capacity across an area of approximately 1,500 square km in Morocco’s Guelmim Oued Noun region.

    “Xlinks is a Morocco – British first,” said Sir Dave Lewis, the the executive chair of Xlinks and a former Tesco CEO. “Using proven technology, it will deliver clean power to over 7 million British homes in this decade....

    Interesting. How much does that cable cost per km, I wonder?

    Also, I appreciate the middle of the Bay of Biscay is deep but why do they choose to lay the cable around the coast, why not in a direct line from Morroco to Finisterre to Cornwall?

    image
    My first thought was I don't know how useful such a zoomed out map is of such a route, as if its main purpose was just to remind us all where Morocco and the UK are in relation to each other.

    Which surely isn't necessary now Raab is not Foreign Minister.

    I see the map is not touching on the Western Sahara controversy.
    The map very clearly shows that the route hugs the coast and is mentioned as being 3,800km. It would only be about 2,300km if it took the shortest sea route.
  • Petrol anecdote of the day...

    This morning there was a queue at the Saltaire Shell despite there being no fuel on sale. The reason being that there was a tanker parked up making a delivery.

    On an unrelated note, I'm typing this from a hotel bedroom in North Wales. Our first holiday in 2 years. Just a pity they still have the mask theatre this side of the border, but we are enjoying it.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,535
    edited September 2021
    Got to say this Chinese F**king Vegan Virus* is pretty shit. I am bloody glad I got double jabbed because even with that it is hard going so far. Not exactly 'hit by bus' but at least 'chased by a lunatic on a unicycle'. My wife, thankfully, is unaffected even though we both tested positive yesterday.

    *Chinese F**king Vegan Virus is black humour from my daughter. She had Covid back in July and unfortunately is one of the increasingly large number of people who now have Parosmia - her smell and taste have been damaged so that most things she eats, particularly meat, taste very strongly of rotted meat. She has had to adopt an effective vegetarian diet just to get enough calories and is extremely pissed off about it. We are hoping it passes but no one seems to know any cure as yet.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,104

    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Might the Morocco--UK solar project actually go ahead now ?
    This autumn's fun and games in the energy markets might just provide the impetus.

    https://reneweconomy.com.au/massive-10-5gw-wind-solar-and-battery-project-in-morocco-to-send-power-to-uk/
    ...Xlinks is hoping to secure its capacity into Great Britain via the UK Government’s Contracts for Difference (CfD) mechanism – which this month unveiled that it would support a range of technologies in its fourth round.

    But it insists that apart from this it will not require government subsidy or financing, and will still be able to deliver electricity at the £48/MWh CfD – below the central forecast for energy prices proposed by the UK Department for Business, Energy & Strategy (BEIS).

    The aptly named Morocco – UK Power Project will, in addition to its 3,800km HVDC sub-sea cable, build its wind and solar capacity across an area of approximately 1,500 square km in Morocco’s Guelmim Oued Noun region.

    “Xlinks is a Morocco – British first,” said Sir Dave Lewis, the the executive chair of Xlinks and a former Tesco CEO. “Using proven technology, it will deliver clean power to over 7 million British homes in this decade....

    Interesting. How much does that cable cost per km, I wonder?

    Also, I appreciate the middle of the Bay of Biscay is deep but why do they choose to lay the cable around the coast, why not in a direct line from Morroco to Finisterre to Cornwall?

    image
    My first thought was I don't know how useful such a zoomed out map is of such a route, as if its main purpose was just to remind us all where Morocco and the UK are in relation to each other.

    Which surely isn't necessary now Raab is not Foreign Minister.

    I see the map is not touching on the Western Sahara controversy.
    The map very clearly shows that the route hugs the coast and is mentioned as being 3,800km. It would only be about 2,300km if it took the shortest sea route.
    I wasn't disputing any of that, its just that there's probably a lot of fine detail in exactly how to hug the coast, so I'm not sure how much is gained in understanding from the diagram.
  • kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Might the Morocco--UK solar project actually go ahead now ?
    This autumn's fun and games in the energy markets might just provide the impetus.

    https://reneweconomy.com.au/massive-10-5gw-wind-solar-and-battery-project-in-morocco-to-send-power-to-uk/
    ...Xlinks is hoping to secure its capacity into Great Britain via the UK Government’s Contracts for Difference (CfD) mechanism – which this month unveiled that it would support a range of technologies in its fourth round.

    But it insists that apart from this it will not require government subsidy or financing, and will still be able to deliver electricity at the £48/MWh CfD – below the central forecast for energy prices proposed by the UK Department for Business, Energy & Strategy (BEIS).

    The aptly named Morocco – UK Power Project will, in addition to its 3,800km HVDC sub-sea cable, build its wind and solar capacity across an area of approximately 1,500 square km in Morocco’s Guelmim Oued Noun region.

    “Xlinks is a Morocco – British first,” said Sir Dave Lewis, the the executive chair of Xlinks and a former Tesco CEO. “Using proven technology, it will deliver clean power to over 7 million British homes in this decade....

    Interesting. How much does that cable cost per km, I wonder?

    Also, I appreciate the middle of the Bay of Biscay is deep but why do they choose to lay the cable around the coast, why not in a direct line from Morroco to Finisterre to Cornwall?

    image
    My first thought was I don't know how useful such a zoomed out map is of such a route, as if its main purpose was just to remind us all where Morocco and the UK are in relation to each other.

    Which surely isn't necessary now Raab is not Foreign Minister.

    I see the map is not touching on the Western Sahara controversy.
    It is touching, WS is shown as part of Morocco!
  • TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    Petrol shortage: No improvement in fuel supplies
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58747281

    They must be lying. Philip_Thompson assured us that it'd all be over in 2-3 days.
    Both appear to be right. Things have improved overall. Things have not improved with some independents especially BP ones.
    "improved overall" != "all over"
    Sure it is. There's always been some stations at some times without fuel which is why this mass hysteria over a few not having it was so utterly irresponsible.

    Largely stations are back to normal and anyone who wants fuel can get it.
    According the the PRA, over a quarter of their members are still without fuel. That is not a normal situation, and it's weird of you to make out that it is. Every other country in the world is pointing and laughing at us.
    Are you sure you are not over egging it, every country in the world !!!
    True, some have a little more consideration. They are merely smirking behind their hands.
    You don't think other countries have their own issues they ought to be concerned about rather than worrying about us? Yours seems rather an egocentric viewpoint.
    They're not worrying about us; they're laughing at us. We provide a little light relief from their own problems. You can't tell me you wouldn't be doing the same if it were French drivers queuing for petrol.
    I absolutely can say that.

    The French have issues and protests and violence on a weekly violence with the Gilets Jaunes etc

    I don't mention them at all, its none of my business and I don't especially care. Let them sort their own issues out and we can sort our own out.

    You seem rather obsessed though. Not me.
    I'm merely pointing out your detachment from the reality that the rest of the world can see. We are not, as you seem to imagine, back to normal. A quarter of our petrol stations still have no fuel. This is not normal and it's delusional for you to claim otherwise.
    That was due to a scare leading to panic buying though. Not a shortage.
    There was a shortage of drivers AIUI. Or was that just fake news.
    But enough fuel.
    Yes. At the refineries. Do you accept there was a shortage of drivers? And if you do, do you think that a shortage of drivers might cause a shortage of fuel at the pumps.
    Affecting less than 100 petrol stations out of 8300 (and all of those BP) and with only 5 having to actually shut.

    Until some fuckwit in the media decided to turn it into a crisis.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,854
  • Taking back control, respecting the will of the electorate and definitely not just handing out jobs to people who have bunged you some cash... British democracy at its best.

    "Malcolm Offord, who runs a private equity firm in Scotland and who has donated more than £100,000 to the Conservative party, has been given a peerage and will join the government as a minister in the Scotland Office. Earlier this year he was a candidate for the Scottish Conservatives in the regional list section of the election, but he was not elected."
  • Nigelb said:

    Might the Morocco--UK solar project actually go ahead now ?
    This autumn's fun and games in the energy markets might just provide the impetus.

    https://reneweconomy.com.au/massive-10-5gw-wind-solar-and-battery-project-in-morocco-to-send-power-to-uk/
    ...Xlinks is hoping to secure its capacity into Great Britain via the UK Government’s Contracts for Difference (CfD) mechanism – which this month unveiled that it would support a range of technologies in its fourth round.

    But it insists that apart from this it will not require government subsidy or financing, and will still be able to deliver electricity at the £48/MWh CfD – below the central forecast for energy prices proposed by the UK Department for Business, Energy & Strategy (BEIS).

    The aptly named Morocco – UK Power Project will, in addition to its 3,800km HVDC sub-sea cable, build its wind and solar capacity across an area of approximately 1,500 square km in Morocco’s Guelmim Oued Noun region.

    “Xlinks is a Morocco – British first,” said Sir Dave Lewis, the the executive chair of Xlinks and a former Tesco CEO. “Using proven technology, it will deliver clean power to over 7 million British homes in this decade....

    Interesting. How much does that cable cost per km, I wonder?

    Also, I appreciate the middle of the Bay of Biscay is deep but why do they choose to lay the cable around the coast, why not in a direct line from Morroco to Finisterre to Cornwall?

    image
    This is good, but there are downsides. It makes us reliant on another country (essentially swapping Saudi Arabia and Russia for Morocco), and that cable is one heck of a tempting target in times of war.

    But as part of a balanced energy mix, it's a positive.
  • Taking back control, respecting the will of the electorate and definitely not just handing out jobs to people who have bunged you some cash... British democracy at its best.

    "Malcolm Offord, who runs a private equity firm in Scotland and who has donated more than £100,000 to the Conservative party, has been given a peerage and will join the government as a minister in the Scotland Office. Earlier this year he was a candidate for the Scottish Conservatives in the regional list section of the election, but he was not elected."

    House of Lords = House of Unelected Has-Beens!
  • Nigelb said:

    Might the Morocco--UK solar project actually go ahead now ?
    This autumn's fun and games in the energy markets might just provide the impetus.

    https://reneweconomy.com.au/massive-10-5gw-wind-solar-and-battery-project-in-morocco-to-send-power-to-uk/
    ...Xlinks is hoping to secure its capacity into Great Britain via the UK Government’s Contracts for Difference (CfD) mechanism – which this month unveiled that it would support a range of technologies in its fourth round.

    But it insists that apart from this it will not require government subsidy or financing, and will still be able to deliver electricity at the £48/MWh CfD – below the central forecast for energy prices proposed by the UK Department for Business, Energy & Strategy (BEIS).

    The aptly named Morocco – UK Power Project will, in addition to its 3,800km HVDC sub-sea cable, build its wind and solar capacity across an area of approximately 1,500 square km in Morocco’s Guelmim Oued Noun region.

    “Xlinks is a Morocco – British first,” said Sir Dave Lewis, the the executive chair of Xlinks and a former Tesco CEO. “Using proven technology, it will deliver clean power to over 7 million British homes in this decade....

    Interesting. How much does that cable cost per km, I wonder?

    Also, I appreciate the middle of the Bay of Biscay is deep but why do they choose to lay the cable around the coast, why not in a direct line from Morroco to Finisterre to Cornwall?

    image
    What are the terrorism risks?
  • Taking back control, respecting the will of the electorate and definitely not just handing out jobs to people who have bunged you some cash... British democracy at its best.

    "Malcolm Offord, who runs a private equity firm in Scotland and who has donated more than £100,000 to the Conservative party, has been given a peerage and will join the government as a minister in the Scotland Office. Earlier this year he was a candidate for the Scottish Conservatives in the regional list section of the election, but he was not elected."

    House of Lords = House of Unelected Has-Beens!
    I'm not sure this guy is even a has-been, more of a never-was by the sounds of things.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,854

    Taking back control, respecting the will of the electorate and definitely not just handing out jobs to people who have bunged you some cash... British democracy at its best.

    "Malcolm Offord, who runs a private equity firm in Scotland and who has donated more than £100,000 to the Conservative party, has been given a peerage and will join the government as a minister in the Scotland Office. Earlier this year he was a candidate for the Scottish Conservatives in the regional list section of the election, but he was not elected."

    One wonders what party Mr Johnson thinks all those right-wing unionist MPs for Scottish constituencies and MSPs belong to. And he already had an oven ready peer-to-Cabinet recipe in Dame Davidson.

    Maybe being handpicked by Ms Davidson-as-as-then-was was not a good career move.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    Petrol shortage: No improvement in fuel supplies
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58747281

    They must be lying. Philip_Thompson assured us that it'd all be over in 2-3 days.
    Both appear to be right. Things have improved overall. Things have not improved with some independents especially BP ones.
    "improved overall" != "all over"
    Sure it is. There's always been some stations at some times without fuel which is why this mass hysteria over a few not having it was so utterly irresponsible.

    Largely stations are back to normal and anyone who wants fuel can get it.
    According the the PRA, over a quarter of their members are still without fuel. That is not a normal situation, and it's weird of you to make out that it is. Every other country in the world is pointing and laughing at us.
    Are you sure you are not over egging it, every country in the world !!!
    True, some have a little more consideration. They are merely smirking behind their hands.
    You don't think other countries have their own issues they ought to be concerned about rather than worrying about us? Yours seems rather an egocentric viewpoint.
    They're not worrying about us; they're laughing at us. We provide a little light relief from their own problems. You can't tell me you wouldn't be doing the same if it were French drivers queuing for petrol.
    I absolutely can say that.

    The French have issues and protests and violence on a weekly violence with the Gilets Jaunes etc

    I don't mention them at all, its none of my business and I don't especially care. Let them sort their own issues out and we can sort our own out.

    You seem rather obsessed though. Not me.
    I'm merely pointing out your detachment from the reality that the rest of the world can see. We are not, as you seem to imagine, back to normal. A quarter of our petrol stations still have no fuel. This is not normal and it's delusional for you to claim otherwise.
    That was due to a scare leading to panic buying though. Not a shortage.
    There was a shortage of drivers AIUI. Or was that just fake news.
    But enough fuel.
    Yes. At the refineries. Do you accept there was a shortage of drivers? And if you do, do you think that a shortage of drivers might cause a shortage of fuel at the pumps.
    Affecting less than 100 petrol stations out of 8300 (and all of those BP) and with only 5 having to actually shut.

    Until some fuckwit in the media decided to turn it into a crisis.
    There was a shortage of fuel at the pumps. 100 stations if that's what it was. Who knew it wouldn't be 500 within the week?
  • Got to say this Chinese F**king Vegan Virus* is pretty shit. I am bloody glad I got double jabbed because even with that it is hard going so far. Not exactly 'hit by bus' but at least 'chased by a lunatic on a unicycle'. My wife, thankfully, is unaffected even though we both tested positive yesterday.

    *Chinese F**king Vegan Virus is black humour from my daughter. She had Covid back in July and unfortunately is one of the increasingly large number of people who now have Parosmia - her smell and taste have been damaged so that most things she eats, particularly meat, taste very strongly of rotted meat. She has had to adopt an effective vegetarian diet just to get enough calories and is extremely pissed off about it. We are hoping it passes but no one seems to know any cure as yet.

    Hope you all get better soon. Friends of ours have had it recently: their young kids had hayfever-like symptoms, whilst the parents were fairly badly off for a week. And they're ten/fifteen years younger than me ...

    As a matter of interest, any idea how and where you caught it?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,667
    edited September 2021
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Might the Morocco--UK solar project actually go ahead now ?
    This autumn's fun and games in the energy markets might just provide the impetus.

    https://reneweconomy.com.au/massive-10-5gw-wind-solar-and-battery-project-in-morocco-to-send-power-to-uk/
    ...Xlinks is hoping to secure its capacity into Great Britain via the UK Government’s Contracts for Difference (CfD) mechanism – which this month unveiled that it would support a range of technologies in its fourth round.

    But it insists that apart from this it will not require government subsidy or financing, and will still be able to deliver electricity at the £48/MWh CfD – below the central forecast for energy prices proposed by the UK Department for Business, Energy & Strategy (BEIS).

    The aptly named Morocco – UK Power Project will, in addition to its 3,800km HVDC sub-sea cable, build its wind and solar capacity across an area of approximately 1,500 square km in Morocco’s Guelmim Oued Noun region.

    “Xlinks is a Morocco – British first,” said Sir Dave Lewis, the the executive chair of Xlinks and a former Tesco CEO. “Using proven technology, it will deliver clean power to over 7 million British homes in this decade....

    Interesting. How much does that cable cost per km, I wonder?

    Also, I appreciate the middle of the Bay of Biscay is deep but why do they choose to lay the cable around the coast, why not in a direct line from Morroco to Finisterre to Cornwall?

    image
    My first thought was I don't know how useful such a zoomed out map is of such a route, as if its main purpose was just to remind us all where Morocco and the UK are in relation to each other.

    Which surely isn't necessary now Raab is not Foreign Minister.

    I see the map is not touching on the Western Sahara controversy.
    The map very clearly shows that the route hugs the coast and is mentioned as being 3,800km. It would only be about 2,300km if it took the shortest sea route.
    I wasn't disputing any of that, its just that there's probably a lot of fine detail in exactly how to hug the coast, so I'm not sure how much is gained in understanding from the diagram.
    Ok but if the map is to be believed a decision has been taken that it's more advantageous to add 1,500km to the length in order to avoid dropping the cable to depths of greater than circa 300m. Maybe it's to do with the ablility to repair and future breaks or damage?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957

    Got to say this Chinese F**king Vegan Virus* is pretty shit. I am bloody glad I got double jabbed because even with that it is hard going so far. Not exactly 'hit by bus' but at least 'chased by a lunatic on a unicycle'. My wife, thankfully, is unaffected even though we both tested positive yesterday.

    *Chinese F**king Vegan Virus is black humour from my daughter. She had Covid back in July and unfortunately is one of the increasingly large number of people who now have Parosmia - her smell and taste have been damaged so that most things she eats, particularly meat, taste very strongly of rotted meat. She has had to adopt an effective vegetarian diet just to get enough calories and is extremely pissed off about it. We are hoping it passes but no one seems to know any cure as yet.

    Oh sorry to hear that. At least you won't be needing your car for the moment. :smile:
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,854

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Might the Morocco--UK solar project actually go ahead now ?
    This autumn's fun and games in the energy markets might just provide the impetus.

    https://reneweconomy.com.au/massive-10-5gw-wind-solar-and-battery-project-in-morocco-to-send-power-to-uk/
    ...Xlinks is hoping to secure its capacity into Great Britain via the UK Government’s Contracts for Difference (CfD) mechanism – which this month unveiled that it would support a range of technologies in its fourth round.

    But it insists that apart from this it will not require government subsidy or financing, and will still be able to deliver electricity at the £48/MWh CfD – below the central forecast for energy prices proposed by the UK Department for Business, Energy & Strategy (BEIS).

    The aptly named Morocco – UK Power Project will, in addition to its 3,800km HVDC sub-sea cable, build its wind and solar capacity across an area of approximately 1,500 square km in Morocco’s Guelmim Oued Noun region.

    “Xlinks is a Morocco – British first,” said Sir Dave Lewis, the the executive chair of Xlinks and a former Tesco CEO. “Using proven technology, it will deliver clean power to over 7 million British homes in this decade....

    Interesting. How much does that cable cost per km, I wonder?

    Also, I appreciate the middle of the Bay of Biscay is deep but why do they choose to lay the cable around the coast, why not in a direct line from Morroco to Finisterre to Cornwall?

    image
    My first thought was I don't know how useful such a zoomed out map is of such a route, as if its main purpose was just to remind us all where Morocco and the UK are in relation to each other.

    Which surely isn't necessary now Raab is not Foreign Minister.

    I see the map is not touching on the Western Sahara controversy.
    The map very clearly shows that the route hugs the coast and is mentioned as being 3,800km. It would only be about 2,300km if it took the shortest sea route.
    I wasn't disputing any of that, its just that there's probably a lot of fine detail in exactly how to hug the coast, so I'm not sure how much is gained in understanding from the diagram.
    Ok but if the map is to be believed a decision has been taken that it's more advantageous to add 1,500km to the length in order to avoid dropping the cable to depths of greater than circa 300m. Maybe it's to do with the ablility to repair and future breaks or damage?
    Maybe in territorial waters to discourage, erm, hostile activity?
  • Which UK political party shares its name with a collective noun for moles?

    Open to hear the contestant's answer:

    https://twitter.com/ZainudeenT/status/1443601264655441925
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,854
    edited September 2021
    Carnyx said:

    Taking back control, respecting the will of the electorate and definitely not just handing out jobs to people who have bunged you some cash... British democracy at its best.

    "Malcolm Offord, who runs a private equity firm in Scotland and who has donated more than £100,000 to the Conservative party, has been given a peerage and will join the government as a minister in the Scotland Office. Earlier this year he was a candidate for the Scottish Conservatives in the regional list section of the election, but he was not elected."

    One wonders what party Mr Johnson thinks all those right-wing unionist MPs for Scottish constituencies and MSPs belong to. And he already had an oven ready peer-to-Cabinet recipe in Dame Davidson.

    Maybe being handpicked by Ms Davidson-as-as-then-was was not a good career move.
    Edit: Mr Offord, sorry Lord-to-be Offord, was selected by RD so that can't be it.

    The National says he donated almost 150K to the Tories. 2.5K to Mr Gove. Leaver.And he was the chap who ran Vote No Borders in 2014.

    https://www.thenational.scot/news/19616794.malcolm-offord-tory-donor-failed-msp-bid-scotland-office-minister/
  • TOPPING said:

    Got to say this Chinese F**king Vegan Virus* is pretty shit. I am bloody glad I got double jabbed because even with that it is hard going so far. Not exactly 'hit by bus' but at least 'chased by a lunatic on a unicycle'. My wife, thankfully, is unaffected even though we both tested positive yesterday.

    *Chinese F**king Vegan Virus is black humour from my daughter. She had Covid back in July and unfortunately is one of the increasingly large number of people who now have Parosmia - her smell and taste have been damaged so that most things she eats, particularly meat, taste very strongly of rotted meat. She has had to adopt an effective vegetarian diet just to get enough calories and is extremely pissed off about it. We are hoping it passes but no one seems to know any cure as yet.

    Oh sorry to hear that. At least you won't be needing your car for the moment. :smile:
    Very true. To be honest I have been driving very little recently anyway and only leave the village maybe twice week to see my Mum.
  • Got to say this Chinese F**king Vegan Virus* is pretty shit. I am bloody glad I got double jabbed because even with that it is hard going so far. Not exactly 'hit by bus' but at least 'chased by a lunatic on a unicycle'. My wife, thankfully, is unaffected even though we both tested positive yesterday.

    *Chinese F**king Vegan Virus is black humour from my daughter. She had Covid back in July and unfortunately is one of the increasingly large number of people who now have Parosmia - her smell and taste have been damaged so that most things she eats, particularly meat, taste very strongly of rotted meat. She has had to adopt an effective vegetarian diet just to get enough calories and is extremely pissed off about it. We are hoping it passes but no one seems to know any cure as yet.

    Hope you all get better soon. Friends of ours have had it recently: their young kids had hayfever-like symptoms, whilst the parents were fairly badly off for a week. And they're ten/fifteen years younger than me ...

    As a matter of interest, any idea how and where you caught it?
    Son bought it home from school. He contracted it last weekend and passed it to us. Around 40% of his school are now in isolation with positive tests.
  • kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Might the Morocco--UK solar project actually go ahead now ?
    This autumn's fun and games in the energy markets might just provide the impetus.

    https://reneweconomy.com.au/massive-10-5gw-wind-solar-and-battery-project-in-morocco-to-send-power-to-uk/
    ...Xlinks is hoping to secure its capacity into Great Britain via the UK Government’s Contracts for Difference (CfD) mechanism – which this month unveiled that it would support a range of technologies in its fourth round.

    But it insists that apart from this it will not require government subsidy or financing, and will still be able to deliver electricity at the £48/MWh CfD – below the central forecast for energy prices proposed by the UK Department for Business, Energy & Strategy (BEIS).

    The aptly named Morocco – UK Power Project will, in addition to its 3,800km HVDC sub-sea cable, build its wind and solar capacity across an area of approximately 1,500 square km in Morocco’s Guelmim Oued Noun region.

    “Xlinks is a Morocco – British first,” said Sir Dave Lewis, the the executive chair of Xlinks and a former Tesco CEO. “Using proven technology, it will deliver clean power to over 7 million British homes in this decade....

    Interesting. How much does that cable cost per km, I wonder?

    Also, I appreciate the middle of the Bay of Biscay is deep but why do they choose to lay the cable around the coast, why not in a direct line from Morroco to Finisterre to Cornwall?

    image
    My first thought was I don't know how useful such a zoomed out map is of such a route, as if its main purpose was just to remind us all where Morocco and the UK are in relation to each other.

    Which surely isn't necessary now Raab is not Foreign Minister.

    I see the map is not touching on the Western Sahara controversy.
    The map very clearly shows that the route hugs the coast and is mentioned as being 3,800km. It would only be about 2,300km if it took the shortest sea route.
    I wasn't disputing any of that, its just that there's probably a lot of fine detail in exactly how to hug the coast, so I'm not sure how much is gained in understanding from the diagram.
    Ok but if the map is to be believed a decision has been taken that it's more advantageous to add 1,500km to the length in order to avoid dropping the cable to depths of greater than circa 300m. Maybe it's to do with the ablility to repair and future breaks or damage?
    It may be to avoid shallowish areas where seabed trawling goes on.
    Also, we've had 150 years experience of repairing communication cables in massively deep oceanic waters. I *assume* the power cables will be thicker, and have greater armour, but the same tech should work.

    I've just found the following, which is interesting:
    https://www.youris.com/energy/gallery/undersea-hvdc-cables-discovering-some-of-the-worlds-top-power-interconnections.kl
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,346

    malcolmg said:

    Phil said:

    malcolmg said:

    RobD said:

    malcolmg said:

    RobD said:

    malcolmg said:

    Scott_xP said:
    HTF can an ambulance driver be legal for an HGV tanker
    Because ambulences are big and heavy and require the same license as a HGV? It doesn't say anything about tankers.
    I have yet to see a fuel tanker the size of an ambulance. Also an ambulance is not even the size of a Luton if that , it is in no way comparable to a fuel tanker and to boot you need special licence to handle fuel into the bargain. Sounds like any white van man can start driving ambulances.
    Again, no mention of fuel tankers. This is just about HGVs, for which ambulance drivers have the necessary license to drive.
    Bollox , they have LGV C1 nowhere near HGV licences
    Indeed. But you can get dinky little 12 ton fuel tankers which you could drive with a C1 licence, so maybe they have a stack of those parked up somewhere?

    Eg https://www.gdjones.co.uk/en/vehicles

    Edit: Oh wait, those aren’t trailers, so you can’t use the combined weight thing to allow a 12 ton limit.

    Maybe even /smaller/ tankers then? It all sounds a bit pointless doesn’t it?
    For sure
    Apparently the letter is being sent to people with a current HGV license.
    So not ambulance drivers unless by chance they also have an HGV licence.
  • Which UK political party shares its name with a collective noun for moles?

    Open to hear the contestant's answer:

    https://twitter.com/ZainudeenT/status/1443601264655441925

    I can't believe it doesn't show us if she was right..
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,667

    Nigelb said:

    Might the Morocco--UK solar project actually go ahead now ?
    This autumn's fun and games in the energy markets might just provide the impetus.

    https://reneweconomy.com.au/massive-10-5gw-wind-solar-and-battery-project-in-morocco-to-send-power-to-uk/
    ...Xlinks is hoping to secure its capacity into Great Britain via the UK Government’s Contracts for Difference (CfD) mechanism – which this month unveiled that it would support a range of technologies in its fourth round.

    But it insists that apart from this it will not require government subsidy or financing, and will still be able to deliver electricity at the £48/MWh CfD – below the central forecast for energy prices proposed by the UK Department for Business, Energy & Strategy (BEIS).

    The aptly named Morocco – UK Power Project will, in addition to its 3,800km HVDC sub-sea cable, build its wind and solar capacity across an area of approximately 1,500 square km in Morocco’s Guelmim Oued Noun region.

    “Xlinks is a Morocco – British first,” said Sir Dave Lewis, the the executive chair of Xlinks and a former Tesco CEO. “Using proven technology, it will deliver clean power to over 7 million British homes in this decade....

    Interesting. How much does that cable cost per km, I wonder?

    Also, I appreciate the middle of the Bay of Biscay is deep but why do they choose to lay the cable around the coast, why not in a direct line from Morroco to Finisterre to Cornwall?

    image
    The Bay of Biscay is over 15,000ft deep across the middle. I suspect that is a whole magnitude of different when it comes to laying undersea transmission cables. Laying in the 'shallower' depths also helps to avoid the possibility of damage from turbidite flows - undersea avalanches where huge volumes of mud flow down the slopes of the abyssal plains and can cut undersea cables. It has happened in the past on the Newfoundland Banks to transatlantic cables.
    Ok thanks . I couldn't think why the depth per se would be an issue - the cable is not going to get crushed by the pressure after all. I'd not hear of turbidite flows, that may be the reason.

    Sorry to hear about your covid btw. If it's that bad with the vaccines you might have been in serious trouble when unvaccinated. Get well soon!
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,750

    Which UK political party shares its name with a collective noun for moles?

    Open to hear the contestant's answer:

    https://twitter.com/ZainudeenT/status/1443601264655441925

    Very funny. But how can you leave us in suspense like that? What's the right answer?

    Is it Common Wealth?
  • Chris said:

    Which UK political party shares its name with a collective noun for moles?

    Open to hear the contestant's answer:

    https://twitter.com/ZainudeenT/status/1443601264655441925

    Very funny. But how can you leave us in suspense like that? What's the right answer?

    Is it Common Wealth?
    Apparently the correct answer is a labour of moles.
  • Which UK political party shares its name with a collective noun for moles?

    Open to hear the contestant's answer:

    https://twitter.com/ZainudeenT/status/1443601264655441925

    I can't believe it doesn't show us if she was right..
    I think the "not 100% certain" woman would have said UKIP
  • TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    Petrol shortage: No improvement in fuel supplies
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58747281

    They must be lying. Philip_Thompson assured us that it'd all be over in 2-3 days.
    Both appear to be right. Things have improved overall. Things have not improved with some independents especially BP ones.
    "improved overall" != "all over"
    Sure it is. There's always been some stations at some times without fuel which is why this mass hysteria over a few not having it was so utterly irresponsible.

    Largely stations are back to normal and anyone who wants fuel can get it.
    According the the PRA, over a quarter of their members are still without fuel. That is not a normal situation, and it's weird of you to make out that it is. Every other country in the world is pointing and laughing at us.
    Are you sure you are not over egging it, every country in the world !!!
    True, some have a little more consideration. They are merely smirking behind their hands.
    You don't think other countries have their own issues they ought to be concerned about rather than worrying about us? Yours seems rather an egocentric viewpoint.
    They're not worrying about us; they're laughing at us. We provide a little light relief from their own problems. You can't tell me you wouldn't be doing the same if it were French drivers queuing for petrol.
    I absolutely can say that.

    The French have issues and protests and violence on a weekly violence with the Gilets Jaunes etc

    I don't mention them at all, its none of my business and I don't especially care. Let them sort their own issues out and we can sort our own out.

    You seem rather obsessed though. Not me.
    I'm merely pointing out your detachment from the reality that the rest of the world can see. We are not, as you seem to imagine, back to normal. A quarter of our petrol stations still have no fuel. This is not normal and it's delusional for you to claim otherwise.
    That was due to a scare leading to panic buying though. Not a shortage.
    There was a shortage of drivers AIUI. Or was that just fake news.
    But enough fuel.
    Yes. At the refineries. Do you accept there was a shortage of drivers? And if you do, do you think that a shortage of drivers might cause a shortage of fuel at the pumps.
    Affecting less than 100 petrol stations out of 8300 (and all of those BP) and with only 5 having to actually shut.

    Until some fuckwit in the media decided to turn it into a crisis.
    There was a shortage of fuel at the pumps. 100 stations if that's what it was. Who knew it wouldn't be 500 within the week?
    500 petrol stations out of 8300 isn't a shortage either.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,180
    TimT said:

    TimT said:

    Quite the thread here.

    I had a trial yesterday where a 17 year old black girl (who had committed NO crime and has no criminal record) was grabbed and wrestled to the floor and handcuffed by two officers for “talking back” when she (correctly) said to them “you can’t do this” and asked them to step back

    The officers were caught on CCTV stepping up to her right in her face (August last year - height of the pandemic) with no masks on and loudly telling her off (for something that isn’t a crime). After she backed off the third time whilst repeatedly saying “back off” they pounced.

    This happened in broad daylight in Birmingham New Street station and everyone assumed the officers were in the right and a member of the public even came over to help the two officers who were sitting on top of her to restrain her.

    She screamed out in pain and asked 21 times either “Why are you doing this to me?” or “What have I done?” and they didn’t reply to tell her why they were doing it or what she was said to have done.

    Eventually one of them says she’s under arrest for assaulting them.

    They lied throughout their evidence and said she had moved towards them aggressively and tried to hit one of them.

    Two separate angles on the video show she does no such thing and is continuously backing off from them and looks scared.

    Thankfully the case against her was thrown out, but quite frankly it’s theofficers who should’ve been prosecuted for assault. Had I not been able to get CCTV camera footage from the station it would’ve been her word against theirs and she would no doubt have been convicted.....

    ...The officers continued to assert throughout the trial that their actions were justified.

    This is the problem.

    This is the culture we have to deal with.

    THIS IS WHY I GET SICK OF PEOPLE ASKING ME HOW I CAN “DEFEND CRIMINALS”.

    P.S. A good illustration of the level of arrogance of one of the officers and their feeling that they are above the law: the Judge had to warn the officer about their conduct IN COURT and it continued so the Judge THREATENED TO LOCK THE OFFICER UP FOR CONTEMPT OF COURT.

    The prosecutor, the clerk, the Judge, me - and several of my colleagues I spoke to - all of us with over 20 years experience in criminal trials - have NEVER seen an officer behave so badly that they were threatened with contempt.

    Yet they are on patrol in New Street again today

    If it’s any consolation our civil team are now going to take action against the police and I suspect one or both of them won’t be officers for much longer but hey - we represented the De Menezes family and no fucker lost their job when they killed a lad.


    https://twitter.com/JudgeDewie/status/1443506723881422848

    That is the key. The bad cops have to lose their jobs and be open to both civil and criminal prosecution. And their bosses, if they serially fail to attend to such failures, should lose their jobs and, depending on their own level of negligence, be open to similar prosecution.
    A part of the problem runs thus -

    The cops on the ground are convinced that if something goes wrong, their superiors will stitch them up. There is no trust in the Senior Management Team.

    In turn there is a widespread belief that there is no way that a senior officer would end up carrying the can - that they would pass the buck to junior officers.

    In the case of De Mendes, the odd bit is that the police on the ground, who actually shot him were blameless. They were carrying out orders which they had reason to believe were lawful and necessary. It was the fuck up with the surveillance and the control of the operation which was the problem.

    Which comes back to the doctrine of command responsibility. Where someone in authority can be guilty, but the subordinates who carried out what they thought were lawful orders are not.

    The problem is that the police have been convinced that either they all hang together or they all hang separately. Hence the omertà...

    How to deal with that?
    Wholesale removal of the top commanders who are ultimately responsible for their command's culture.
    Prosecute those police who commit crimes. Fire their superiors (and their superior's superiors).

    That should encourage them to take a greater interest in how their subordinates behave.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,104

    Chris said:

    Which UK political party shares its name with a collective noun for moles?

    Open to hear the contestant's answer:

    https://twitter.com/ZainudeenT/status/1443601264655441925

    Very funny. But how can you leave us in suspense like that? What's the right answer?

    Is it Common Wealth?
    Apparently the correct answer is a labour of moles.
    The correct answer is that unique 'collective nouns' for animals is overwhelmingly a bunch of nonsense, but it was a good answer.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468

    Nigelb said:

    Might the Morocco--UK solar project actually go ahead now ?
    This autumn's fun and games in the energy markets might just provide the impetus.

    https://reneweconomy.com.au/massive-10-5gw-wind-solar-and-battery-project-in-morocco-to-send-power-to-uk/
    ...Xlinks is hoping to secure its capacity into Great Britain via the UK Government’s Contracts for Difference (CfD) mechanism – which this month unveiled that it would support a range of technologies in its fourth round.

    But it insists that apart from this it will not require government subsidy or financing, and will still be able to deliver electricity at the £48/MWh CfD – below the central forecast for energy prices proposed by the UK Department for Business, Energy & Strategy (BEIS).

    The aptly named Morocco – UK Power Project will, in addition to its 3,800km HVDC sub-sea cable, build its wind and solar capacity across an area of approximately 1,500 square km in Morocco’s Guelmim Oued Noun region.

    “Xlinks is a Morocco – British first,” said Sir Dave Lewis, the the executive chair of Xlinks and a former Tesco CEO. “Using proven technology, it will deliver clean power to over 7 million British homes in this decade....

    Interesting. How much does that cable cost per km, I wonder?

    Also, I appreciate the middle of the Bay of Biscay is deep but why do they choose to lay the cable around the coast, why not in a direct line from Morroco to Finisterre to Cornwall?

    image
    What are the terrorism risks?
    None if everyone thinks it's going to be built hugging the coast when it's already built with a direct cable ... :dizzy:
  • If you want an interesting PDF aboout undersea HVDC cables, Google ld-na-27527-en-n.pdf - sadly I cannot find a direct link.

    Apparently the deepest in the world is the SA.PE.I. at 1650 m, between Italy and Sardinia.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    Petrol shortage: No improvement in fuel supplies
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58747281

    They must be lying. Philip_Thompson assured us that it'd all be over in 2-3 days.
    Both appear to be right. Things have improved overall. Things have not improved with some independents especially BP ones.
    "improved overall" != "all over"
    Sure it is. There's always been some stations at some times without fuel which is why this mass hysteria over a few not having it was so utterly irresponsible.

    Largely stations are back to normal and anyone who wants fuel can get it.
    According the the PRA, over a quarter of their members are still without fuel. That is not a normal situation, and it's weird of you to make out that it is. Every other country in the world is pointing and laughing at us.
    Are you sure you are not over egging it, every country in the world !!!
    True, some have a little more consideration. They are merely smirking behind their hands.
    You don't think other countries have their own issues they ought to be concerned about rather than worrying about us? Yours seems rather an egocentric viewpoint.
    They're not worrying about us; they're laughing at us. We provide a little light relief from their own problems. You can't tell me you wouldn't be doing the same if it were French drivers queuing for petrol.
    I absolutely can say that.

    The French have issues and protests and violence on a weekly violence with the Gilets Jaunes etc

    I don't mention them at all, its none of my business and I don't especially care. Let them sort their own issues out and we can sort our own out.

    You seem rather obsessed though. Not me.
    I'm merely pointing out your detachment from the reality that the rest of the world can see. We are not, as you seem to imagine, back to normal. A quarter of our petrol stations still have no fuel. This is not normal and it's delusional for you to claim otherwise.
    That was due to a scare leading to panic buying though. Not a shortage.
    There was a shortage of drivers AIUI. Or was that just fake news.
    But enough fuel.
    Yes. At the refineries. Do you accept there was a shortage of drivers? And if you do, do you think that a shortage of drivers might cause a shortage of fuel at the pumps.
    Affecting less than 100 petrol stations out of 8300 (and all of those BP) and with only 5 having to actually shut.

    Until some fuckwit in the media decided to turn it into a crisis.
    I was only saying yesterday, "How come every petrol station round here seems to be a BP?" In my day they were Shell and Esso normally. Anyway, explains why the queues have been so big in Essex
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    TimT said:

    Nigelb said:

    Might the Morocco--UK solar project actually go ahead now ?
    This autumn's fun and games in the energy markets might just provide the impetus.

    https://reneweconomy.com.au/massive-10-5gw-wind-solar-and-battery-project-in-morocco-to-send-power-to-uk/
    ...Xlinks is hoping to secure its capacity into Great Britain via the UK Government’s Contracts for Difference (CfD) mechanism – which this month unveiled that it would support a range of technologies in its fourth round.

    But it insists that apart from this it will not require government subsidy or financing, and will still be able to deliver electricity at the £48/MWh CfD – below the central forecast for energy prices proposed by the UK Department for Business, Energy & Strategy (BEIS).

    The aptly named Morocco – UK Power Project will, in addition to its 3,800km HVDC sub-sea cable, build its wind and solar capacity across an area of approximately 1,500 square km in Morocco’s Guelmim Oued Noun region.

    “Xlinks is a Morocco – British first,” said Sir Dave Lewis, the the executive chair of Xlinks and a former Tesco CEO. “Using proven technology, it will deliver clean power to over 7 million British homes in this decade....

    Interesting. How much does that cable cost per km, I wonder?

    Also, I appreciate the middle of the Bay of Biscay is deep but why do they choose to lay the cable around the coast, why not in a direct line from Morroco to Finisterre to Cornwall?

    image
    What are the terrorism risks?
    None if everyone thinks it's going to be built hugging the coast when it's already built with a direct cable ... :dizzy:
    Certainly all those terrorists reading PB will have been fooled!
  • AslanAslan Posts: 1,673
    This debate over HGV drivers made me look up the salary limits for other jobs. It turns out that we are letting in people for a huge range of jobs at close to minimum wage as long as you are under 26.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/skilled-worker-visa-eligible-salary-if-youre-under-26-studying-training-or-in-a-postdoctoral-role/skilled-worker-visa-minimum-salary-if-youre-under-26-studying-training-or-in-a-postdoctoral-role

    Some of them are as low as 10k! And for clearly non-critical jobs like fitness instructor. This seems completely nuts. Partially this is because we are setting these numbers at 70% of the "going rate" for UK workers, which is explicitly letting companies undercut the market rate with foreign labour.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,667
    edited September 2021

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Might the Morocco--UK solar project actually go ahead now ?
    This autumn's fun and games in the energy markets might just provide the impetus.

    https://reneweconomy.com.au/massive-10-5gw-wind-solar-and-battery-project-in-morocco-to-send-power-to-uk/
    ...Xlinks is hoping to secure its capacity into Great Britain via the UK Government’s Contracts for Difference (CfD) mechanism – which this month unveiled that it would support a range of technologies in its fourth round.

    But it insists that apart from this it will not require government subsidy or financing, and will still be able to deliver electricity at the £48/MWh CfD – below the central forecast for energy prices proposed by the UK Department for Business, Energy & Strategy (BEIS).

    The aptly named Morocco – UK Power Project will, in addition to its 3,800km HVDC sub-sea cable, build its wind and solar capacity across an area of approximately 1,500 square km in Morocco’s Guelmim Oued Noun region.

    “Xlinks is a Morocco – British first,” said Sir Dave Lewis, the the executive chair of Xlinks and a former Tesco CEO. “Using proven technology, it will deliver clean power to over 7 million British homes in this decade....

    Interesting. How much does that cable cost per km, I wonder?

    Also, I appreciate the middle of the Bay of Biscay is deep but why do they choose to lay the cable around the coast, why not in a direct line from Morroco to Finisterre to Cornwall?

    image
    My first thought was I don't know how useful such a zoomed out map is of such a route, as if its main purpose was just to remind us all where Morocco and the UK are in relation to each other.

    Which surely isn't necessary now Raab is not Foreign Minister.

    I see the map is not touching on the Western Sahara controversy.
    The map very clearly shows that the route hugs the coast and is mentioned as being 3,800km. It would only be about 2,300km if it took the shortest sea route.
    I wasn't disputing any of that, its just that there's probably a lot of fine detail in exactly how to hug the coast, so I'm not sure how much is gained in understanding from the diagram.
    Ok but if the map is to be believed a decision has been taken that it's more advantageous to add 1,500km to the length in order to avoid dropping the cable to depths of greater than circa 300m. Maybe it's to do with the ablility to repair and future breaks or damage?
    It may be to avoid shallowish areas where seabed trawling goes on.
    Also, we've had 150 years experience of repairing communication cables in massively deep oceanic waters. I *assume* the power cables will be thicker, and have greater armour, but the same tech should work.

    I've just found the following, which is interesting:
    https://www.youris.com/energy/gallery/undersea-hvdc-cables-discovering-some-of-the-worlds-top-power-interconnections.kl
    It is interesting, thanks.

    Reading the article, that 600mW cable weighs 55kg per metre and had to be laid in two sections and joined in the middle because no ship is big enough to carry the full length (250km in this case - which if my maths is right would be 13,750 tonnes). 13,750 t doesn't sound that huge for a ship but as a single reel maybe that's too big?

    But the Morocco – UK Power Project cale is 10.5gW over 3,800km. If the weight per m is proportional to the capacity that's nearly a ton per metre so presumably it's just made up of multiple small cables (e.g. 18 x the 55kg/m cable). But the weight of a single 2,300km cable (for the direct route) even at 55kg/m would be over 125,000 tonnes... So quite a lot!

    Hence I reckon thats the reason they hug the coast: to join the multiple sections.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,528

    Where is the fuel effect

    Survation.

    NEW – Westminster Voting Intention:

    CON 41% (+1)
    LAB 36% (+1)
    LD 8% (-)
    GRN 5% (+1)
    SNP 5% (+1)
    OTH 4% (-4)

    https://survation.com/political-polling-30-september-2021/

    It's in the sliding approval figures, e.g. approval of the Government down to 32%, vs 45% disapproving. The Conservative lead is actually just 1% point with normal weighting, but goes up to 5 when weighted for likelihood to vote, for the usual age-related factors.
  • Aslan said:

    This debate over HGV drivers made me look up the salary limits for other jobs. It turns out that we are letting in people for a huge range of jobs at close to minimum wage as long as you are under 26.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/skilled-worker-visa-eligible-salary-if-youre-under-26-studying-training-or-in-a-postdoctoral-role/skilled-worker-visa-minimum-salary-if-youre-under-26-studying-training-or-in-a-postdoctoral-role

    Some of them are as low as 10k! And for clearly non-critical jobs like fitness instructor. This seems completely nuts. Partially this is because we are setting these numbers at 70% of the "going rate" for UK workers, which is explicitly letting companies undercut the market rate with foreign labour.

    On the list is Senior Police Officers (Chief Superintendent) at £17.95 per hour! Err, what planet are they on? For a start they are never in their twenties let alone under 26.....
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,827
    edited September 2021
    isam said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    Petrol shortage: No improvement in fuel supplies
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58747281

    They must be lying. Philip_Thompson assured us that it'd all be over in 2-3 days.
    Both appear to be right. Things have improved overall. Things have not improved with some independents especially BP ones.
    "improved overall" != "all over"
    Sure it is. There's always been some stations at some times without fuel which is why this mass hysteria over a few not having it was so utterly irresponsible.

    Largely stations are back to normal and anyone who wants fuel can get it.
    According the the PRA, over a quarter of their members are still without fuel. That is not a normal situation, and it's weird of you to make out that it is. Every other country in the world is pointing and laughing at us.
    Are you sure you are not over egging it, every country in the world !!!
    True, some have a little more consideration. They are merely smirking behind their hands.
    You don't think other countries have their own issues they ought to be concerned about rather than worrying about us? Yours seems rather an egocentric viewpoint.
    They're not worrying about us; they're laughing at us. We provide a little light relief from their own problems. You can't tell me you wouldn't be doing the same if it were French drivers queuing for petrol.
    I absolutely can say that.

    The French have issues and protests and violence on a weekly violence with the Gilets Jaunes etc

    I don't mention them at all, its none of my business and I don't especially care. Let them sort their own issues out and we can sort our own out.

    You seem rather obsessed though. Not me.
    I'm merely pointing out your detachment from the reality that the rest of the world can see. We are not, as you seem to imagine, back to normal. A quarter of our petrol stations still have no fuel. This is not normal and it's delusional for you to claim otherwise.
    That was due to a scare leading to panic buying though. Not a shortage.
    There was a shortage of drivers AIUI. Or was that just fake news.
    But enough fuel.
    Yes. At the refineries. Do you accept there was a shortage of drivers? And if you do, do you think that a shortage of drivers might cause a shortage of fuel at the pumps.
    Affecting less than 100 petrol stations out of 8300 (and all of those BP) and with only 5 having to actually shut.

    Until some fuckwit in the media decided to turn it into a crisis.
    I was only saying yesterday, "How come every petrol station round here seems to be a BP?" In my day they were Shell and Esso normally. Anyway, explains why the queues have been so big in Essex
    I think the tie in with M&S food worked well for BP, that is when they seemed to become dominant. Esso and Shell have shit food, and not that much cheaper.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,750

    Chris said:

    Which UK political party shares its name with a collective noun for moles?

    Open to hear the contestant's answer:

    https://twitter.com/ZainudeenT/status/1443601264655441925

    Very funny. But how can you leave us in suspense like that? What's the right answer?

    Is it Common Wealth?
    Apparently the correct answer is a labour of moles.
    Ah, thank you.

    Perhaps it would be more entertaining to guess which species would be appropriate to the different political parties.

    An alliance of ferrets.

    A plaid of goats.

    A ukip of dinosaurs.

    A reform of chameleons.

    And so on.
  • Evening all.

    I note that in Survation, Johnson and Starmer are now equal on favourability, -12 for both
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,104
    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Which UK political party shares its name with a collective noun for moles?

    Open to hear the contestant's answer:

    https://twitter.com/ZainudeenT/status/1443601264655441925

    Very funny. But how can you leave us in suspense like that? What's the right answer?

    Is it Common Wealth?
    Apparently the correct answer is a labour of moles.
    Ah, thank you.

    Perhaps it would be more entertaining to guess which species would be appropriate to the different political parties.

    An alliance of ferrets.

    A plaid of goats.

    A ukip of dinosaurs.

    A reform of chameleons.

    And so on.
    Some of those genuinely work.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,930
    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Which UK political party shares its name with a collective noun for moles?

    Open to hear the contestant's answer:

    https://twitter.com/ZainudeenT/status/1443601264655441925

    Very funny. But how can you leave us in suspense like that? What's the right answer?

    Is it Common Wealth?
    Apparently the correct answer is a labour of moles.
    Ah, thank you.

    Perhaps it would be more entertaining to guess which species would be appropriate to the different political parties.

    An alliance of ferrets.

    A plaid of goats.

    A ukip of dinosaurs.

    A reform of chameleons.

    And so on.
    A scum of Tories?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    Petrol shortage: No improvement in fuel supplies
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58747281

    They must be lying. Philip_Thompson assured us that it'd all be over in 2-3 days.
    Both appear to be right. Things have improved overall. Things have not improved with some independents especially BP ones.
    "improved overall" != "all over"
    Sure it is. There's always been some stations at some times without fuel which is why this mass hysteria over a few not having it was so utterly irresponsible.

    Largely stations are back to normal and anyone who wants fuel can get it.
    According the the PRA, over a quarter of their members are still without fuel. That is not a normal situation, and it's weird of you to make out that it is. Every other country in the world is pointing and laughing at us.
    Are you sure you are not over egging it, every country in the world !!!
    True, some have a little more consideration. They are merely smirking behind their hands.
    You don't think other countries have their own issues they ought to be concerned about rather than worrying about us? Yours seems rather an egocentric viewpoint.
    They're not worrying about us; they're laughing at us. We provide a little light relief from their own problems. You can't tell me you wouldn't be doing the same if it were French drivers queuing for petrol.
    I absolutely can say that.

    The French have issues and protests and violence on a weekly violence with the Gilets Jaunes etc

    I don't mention them at all, its none of my business and I don't especially care. Let them sort their own issues out and we can sort our own out.

    You seem rather obsessed though. Not me.
    I'm merely pointing out your detachment from the reality that the rest of the world can see. We are not, as you seem to imagine, back to normal. A quarter of our petrol stations still have no fuel. This is not normal and it's delusional for you to claim otherwise.
    That was due to a scare leading to panic buying though. Not a shortage.
    There was a shortage of drivers AIUI. Or was that just fake news.
    But enough fuel.
    Yes. At the refineries. Do you accept there was a shortage of drivers? And if you do, do you think that a shortage of drivers might cause a shortage of fuel at the pumps.
    Affecting less than 100 petrol stations out of 8300 (and all of those BP) and with only 5 having to actually shut.

    Until some fuckwit in the media decided to turn it into a crisis.
    There was a shortage of fuel at the pumps. 100 stations if that's what it was. Who knew it wouldn't be 500 within the week?
    500 petrol stations out of 8300 isn't a shortage either.
    So you maintain there was no fuel shortage at the pumps.
  • TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    Petrol shortage: No improvement in fuel supplies
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58747281

    They must be lying. Philip_Thompson assured us that it'd all be over in 2-3 days.
    Both appear to be right. Things have improved overall. Things have not improved with some independents especially BP ones.
    "improved overall" != "all over"
    Sure it is. There's always been some stations at some times without fuel which is why this mass hysteria over a few not having it was so utterly irresponsible.

    Largely stations are back to normal and anyone who wants fuel can get it.
    According the the PRA, over a quarter of their members are still without fuel. That is not a normal situation, and it's weird of you to make out that it is. Every other country in the world is pointing and laughing at us.
    Are you sure you are not over egging it, every country in the world !!!
    True, some have a little more consideration. They are merely smirking behind their hands.
    You don't think other countries have their own issues they ought to be concerned about rather than worrying about us? Yours seems rather an egocentric viewpoint.
    They're not worrying about us; they're laughing at us. We provide a little light relief from their own problems. You can't tell me you wouldn't be doing the same if it were French drivers queuing for petrol.
    I absolutely can say that.

    The French have issues and protests and violence on a weekly violence with the Gilets Jaunes etc

    I don't mention them at all, its none of my business and I don't especially care. Let them sort their own issues out and we can sort our own out.

    You seem rather obsessed though. Not me.
    I'm merely pointing out your detachment from the reality that the rest of the world can see. We are not, as you seem to imagine, back to normal. A quarter of our petrol stations still have no fuel. This is not normal and it's delusional for you to claim otherwise.
    That was due to a scare leading to panic buying though. Not a shortage.
    There was a shortage of drivers AIUI. Or was that just fake news.
    But enough fuel.
    Yes. At the refineries. Do you accept there was a shortage of drivers? And if you do, do you think that a shortage of drivers might cause a shortage of fuel at the pumps.
    Affecting less than 100 petrol stations out of 8300 (and all of those BP) and with only 5 having to actually shut.

    Until some fuckwit in the media decided to turn it into a crisis.
    There was a shortage of fuel at the pumps. 100 stations if that's what it was. Who knew it wouldn't be 500 within the week?
    500 petrol stations out of 8300 isn't a shortage either.
    So you maintain there was no fuel shortage at the pumps.
    Not until the media invented one, no.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,094
    edited September 2021

    Where is the fuel effect

    Survation.

    NEW – Westminster Voting Intention:

    CON 41% (+1)
    LAB 36% (+1)
    LD 8% (-)
    GRN 5% (+1)
    SNP 5% (+1)
    OTH 4% (-4)

    https://survation.com/political-polling-30-september-2021/

    It's in the sliding approval figures, e.g. approval of the Government down to 32%, vs 45% disapproving. The Conservative lead is actually just 1% point with normal weighting, but goes up to 5 when weighted for likelihood to vote, for the usual age-related factors.
    I noticed that but labour are not closing yet, but as I said earlier the polls that may indicate a change will only show after Boris's conference speech next week and the budget on the 27th, though we will then be heading into COP26
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,854

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Might the Morocco--UK solar project actually go ahead now ?
    This autumn's fun and games in the energy markets might just provide the impetus.

    https://reneweconomy.com.au/massive-10-5gw-wind-solar-and-battery-project-in-morocco-to-send-power-to-uk/
    ...Xlinks is hoping to secure its capacity into Great Britain via the UK Government’s Contracts for Difference (CfD) mechanism – which this month unveiled that it would support a range of technologies in its fourth round.

    But it insists that apart from this it will not require government subsidy or financing, and will still be able to deliver electricity at the £48/MWh CfD – below the central forecast for energy prices proposed by the UK Department for Business, Energy & Strategy (BEIS).

    The aptly named Morocco – UK Power Project will, in addition to its 3,800km HVDC sub-sea cable, build its wind and solar capacity across an area of approximately 1,500 square km in Morocco’s Guelmim Oued Noun region.

    “Xlinks is a Morocco – British first,” said Sir Dave Lewis, the the executive chair of Xlinks and a former Tesco CEO. “Using proven technology, it will deliver clean power to over 7 million British homes in this decade....

    Interesting. How much does that cable cost per km, I wonder?

    Also, I appreciate the middle of the Bay of Biscay is deep but why do they choose to lay the cable around the coast, why not in a direct line from Morroco to Finisterre to Cornwall?

    image
    My first thought was I don't know how useful such a zoomed out map is of such a route, as if its main purpose was just to remind us all where Morocco and the UK are in relation to each other.

    Which surely isn't necessary now Raab is not Foreign Minister.

    I see the map is not touching on the Western Sahara controversy.
    The map very clearly shows that the route hugs the coast and is mentioned as being 3,800km. It would only be about 2,300km if it took the shortest sea route.
    I wasn't disputing any of that, its just that there's probably a lot of fine detail in exactly how to hug the coast, so I'm not sure how much is gained in understanding from the diagram.
    Ok but if the map is to be believed a decision has been taken that it's more advantageous to add 1,500km to the length in order to avoid dropping the cable to depths of greater than circa 300m. Maybe it's to do with the ablility to repair and future breaks or damage?
    It may be to avoid shallowish areas where seabed trawling goes on.
    Also, we've had 150 years experience of repairing communication cables in massively deep oceanic waters. I *assume* the power cables will be thicker, and have greater armour, but the same tech should work.

    I've just found the following, which is interesting:
    https://www.youris.com/energy/gallery/undersea-hvdc-cables-discovering-some-of-the-worlds-top-power-interconnections.kl
    It is interesting, thanks.

    Reading the article, that 600mW cable weighs 55kg per metre and had to be laid in two sections and joined in the middle because no ship is big enough to carry the full length (250km in this case - which if my maths is right would be 13,750 tonnes). 13,750 t doesn't sound that huge for a ship but as a single reel maybe that's too big?

    But the Morocco – UK Power Project cale is 10.5gW over 3,800km. If the weight per m is proportional to the capacity that's nearly a ton per metre so presumably it's just made up of multiple small cables (e.g. 18 x the 55kg/m cable). But the weight of a single 2,300km cable (for the direct route) even at 55kg/m would be over 125,000 tonnes... So quite a lot!

    Hence I reckon thats the reason they hug the coast: to join the multiple sections.
    Might be a volume thing: you have to fit in the reel, or a file of reels, into the ship with space to work around and deploy the cable. Some ships are limited by the mass of their load (e.g. iron ore carriers, Dreadnoughts with their armour and gun turrets). Others are limited by the volume of their upper works (e.g. car ferries, pax ships, modern warships with lots of lightweight electronics and comfort for the matelots).
  • @dwnews
    Russia's Foreign Ministry reports massive troop deployments by Tajikistan and Afghanistan along their shared border and has called on both sides to de-escalate.


    https://www.dw.com/en/russia-says-tajiks-afghans-amassing-troops-at-shared-border-urges-solution/a-59367291
  • Starmer is +5 with 18-34s, Johnson is +0 with over 65s
  • Aslan said:

    This debate over HGV drivers made me look up the salary limits for other jobs. It turns out that we are letting in people for a huge range of jobs at close to minimum wage as long as you are under 26.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/skilled-worker-visa-eligible-salary-if-youre-under-26-studying-training-or-in-a-postdoctoral-role/skilled-worker-visa-minimum-salary-if-youre-under-26-studying-training-or-in-a-postdoctoral-role

    Some of them are as low as 10k! And for clearly non-critical jobs like fitness instructor. This seems completely nuts. Partially this is because we are setting these numbers at 70% of the "going rate" for UK workers, which is explicitly letting companies undercut the market rate with foreign labour.

    Reading a bit more it seems you have to be studying for a degree at the same time. So will be paying many thousands to UK plc and unlikely to have a full time job, whereas might be able to do a few hours as a fitness instructor.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,104
    RobD said:

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Which UK political party shares its name with a collective noun for moles?

    Open to hear the contestant's answer:

    https://twitter.com/ZainudeenT/status/1443601264655441925

    Very funny. But how can you leave us in suspense like that? What's the right answer?

    Is it Common Wealth?
    Apparently the correct answer is a labour of moles.
    Ah, thank you.

    Perhaps it would be more entertaining to guess which species would be appropriate to the different political parties.

    An alliance of ferrets.

    A plaid of goats.

    A ukip of dinosaurs.

    A reform of chameleons.

    And so on.
    A scum of Tories?
    I was thinking a donation, but that's definitely more topical.
  • RobD said:

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Which UK political party shares its name with a collective noun for moles?

    Open to hear the contestant's answer:

    https://twitter.com/ZainudeenT/status/1443601264655441925

    Very funny. But how can you leave us in suspense like that? What's the right answer?

    Is it Common Wealth?
    Apparently the correct answer is a labour of moles.
    Ah, thank you.

    Perhaps it would be more entertaining to guess which species would be appropriate to the different political parties.

    An alliance of ferrets.

    A plaid of goats.

    A ukip of dinosaurs.

    A reform of chameleons.

    And so on.
    A scum of Tories?
    A Tory of scums, surely?
  • Labour -6, Tories -10
  • Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Which UK political party shares its name with a collective noun for moles?

    Open to hear the contestant's answer:

    https://twitter.com/ZainudeenT/status/1443601264655441925

    Very funny. But how can you leave us in suspense like that? What's the right answer?

    Is it Common Wealth?
    Apparently the correct answer is a labour of moles.
    Ah, thank you.

    Perhaps it would be more entertaining to guess which species would be appropriate to the different political parties.

    An alliance of ferrets.

    A plaid of goats.

    A ukip of dinosaurs.

    A reform of chameleons.

    And so on.
    A Liberal Democrats of Prime Minister Jo Swinsons
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,528

    Selebian said:

    PB brains trust query:
    We're currently getting quotes for building work, substantial extension, probably be towards £100k, so we want it done right. Just had someone round to quote who is doing work down the road. A bit of Googling has revealed the company in question was incorporated in 2020 and the person we spoke to (owner) had a previous building company which underwent creditors voluntary liquidation in 2020 at around the same time. We'll obviously ask about this if we consider going further, but is it - on the face of it - sketchy? Or might there be quite innocuous explanations?

    (We just got this guy in as an 'extra' quote really - already had builder round who did a big extension for sister-in-law and have a couple more reccommended by architect, but they're proving hard to pin down. We want at least a few quotes to compare, but would most likely go for the guy we know most about unless there are good reasons to choose someone else)

    Hmmmmm

    Not especially good sounding - how long was the previous company running for?

    Yes, constructive bankruptcies are a standard operating procedure for a certain type.
    I once arguably blackmailed a company for doing that - curious to know whether people feel I was overstepping the mark. A constituent came to me to say that a company, call them ABC Builders, had done shoddy work and but was refusing to put it right. I contacted them for comment, and they said that they were no longer ABC, they were ABD, and accepted no responsibility for what ABC might or might not have done. They were at the same address, with the same telephone number, but the managing director had changed from Mr X to Mrs X.

    I said that I was planning to write an article in the Nottingham Post about companies who evaded their responsibilities by changing their legal status, and it occurred to me that this would make an excellent example. Would they like to talk to my constituent about addressing his problems before I wrote it?

    I received a solicitor's letter, saying that I appeared to be trying to blackmail their client and they were prepared to take legal action against me. I told them to bring it on (calculating that they were unlikely to win and tmy constituents would be on my side). They caved.

    There's no doubt that I was pressuring them to take action that they had no legal requirement to do, and that MPs should in general not use their access to the press to pressure people, however much they feel justified. On the other hand, morally my constituent was entirely in the right and they didn't even bother to argue about it. I don't really have any regrets.
This discussion has been closed.